This is the Real Estate Shop, where each episode will bring you a top industry expert to share their
current programs or projects that are making an impact in our communities today. Be sure to check
us out on Spotify and Apple podcasts. Welcome to the Real Estate Shop. In today's episode,
we are blessed to have Ms. Eric Scales, Senior Vice President for Social Responsibility
and Global Initiatives at NAIRY, the National Association of Real Estate Investment Trust.
For those who don't know, REITs are trillion-dollar investment vehicles within the real estate market.
Eris, how are you doing today? I'm doing pretty well, Steve. How are you? Good, good. So we took
a look at your professional background, which of course is off the charts. Can you tell us about
your background? Just lead us through your education years, starting when you were getting out of
college. Yeah, so I still chuckle because that was quite some time ago, and I'm trying to think back.
I know every time I say I essentially came out of school over 20 years ago, it really makes me
think about how much I've become a seasoned professional. But I am, I would say a communications
junkie. So I majored in mass communication at Clark Atlanta University, ended up with a degree
in broadcast journalism from Kent State and a master's in public administration with a focus
on urban affairs and policies from Baruch College up in New York. And when I think about, you know,
how I thought my career would go and where it is today, it's actually pretty interesting.
One of the things that I think works to my advantage is that, you know, a tri-sector essay
professional, having worked in the public sector, having worked in government, having worked in
not-for-profit, and even though they're all different industries and different sectors,
there were a lot of commonalities. And I think that communications background, having really
dealing with community and dealing with a diverse group of multi-sector leaders to accomplish goals
has played out well for me. Excellent. What was your first professional job after undergrad?
My first professional job after undergrad was actually not a real job at all because,
you know, listen, I got my quote unquote big break after kind of beating the pavement,
doing a lot of internships and on-air reporting. I was hired by CNN to be a videographer and to
move back to Atlanta, Georgia. So at that time I was in Kent, Ohio, and they extended an opportunity
for me to move back to Atlanta, Georgia. And I was so excited. My family was so excited. We're like,
yes, baby girl has made it. Now, I wasn't going to be on air, but the fact that I was going to be
with CNN and getting my teeth cut in the industry there, we couldn't tell us nothing, right? So I
get back to Atlanta and AOL and Time Warner merged. So this was 2000. And when they did that merger,
they eliminated, I don't know, somewhere around 800 plus jobs, maybe more. But I'll tell you one
of the jobs they eliminated, it was mine. I'm like, wait a minute, I was supposed to be on my way to
becoming the next big, you know, Oprah, Barbara, Walters or somebody. And so at that time I had a
child, my baby was, I don't know, she wasn't even two. And I was terrified. I'm like, well, what am
I going to do? And I met someone who said, well, have you thought about corporate communications?
Have you thought about corporate marketing? And I was like, no. And they said, well,
you can come here and probably make about $45,000 a year. Let me tell you what, $45,000 a year for
someone who was, you know, early in their career back in that time coming out of communications,
plus bonuses, it sounded like a great come up. And I went into that role with a company called
CT Corporation. And CT Corporation was a global registered agent company. And they offer essentially
comprehensive regulatory compliance and due diligence solutions for major companies around
the world. Just saying that, right? Kind of puts you to sleep. And so every day I would go in there
like, oh my God, I am losing my soul. But also what happened during that time is that I would have a
lot of conversations with smaller companies and emerging entrepreneurs who were trying to use the
services of CT Corporation, but they could not afford the services of CT Corporation. And in
having those conversations with them, I would hear a lot about the challenges that they were facing
as entrepreneurs and as small businesses. And so one day I said, you know, I've been at this now
for a few years. What I would really love to do is figure out a way to take my communications
background, this passion that I have, and now this knowledge that I have of working with businesses
on the compliance side and figure out how I can be more of a voice and a connector between like
community, constituent services, and public policy. And so that's when I went and pursued
my master's in public administration up in New York. Nice. And then how did you get involved with
the Walker's Legacy Foundation? Oh, Walker's Legacy. That was a nice little moment in time.
I was very familiar with the founder of that organization. And I think it was really a unique
moment because it was at the time where there was a lot of attention on Black, a lot of attention
on women and a lot of attention on entrepreneurs, right? We were on the other side of George Floyd.
We had a lot of major corporations and even federal government making major commitments
towards supporting some of these marginalized populations. And the founder, she had an
opportunity to go do something and she asked for me to essentially step in and handle her baby for
her while she went and handled some other things. And so it was great. As I think about the work
that I did at Walker's Legacy, it really was no different than the work I had been doing prior
leading up to that when I was doing a presidential initiative, Promise Neighborhood, under President
Barack Obama, or whether I was serving under these seven different mayors that I've been able to
support across the country. It was really about how do you create systems? How do you create
policies? How do you create opportunities to build these multi-sector partnerships to really
address complex social and policy issues? And so when I think about my career and I think about
what I've been doing and even what I'm doing today, that is the underlying theme. It's how do you
connect solutions to things that are extremely complex but require the input, the support,
and really commitment of multiple sectors and multiple industries and multiple types of partners.
Excellent. So you were pretty busy. I know, like you said, you did a lot of work for mayors. You
went in for Walker Legacy. Then at some point, you decided to found Able Vision, which is still active
today. Tell us about Able Vision and what led you on the path towards entrepreneurship?
I chuckle at that. I chuckle at many of these things. I just sit here and I've been reflecting
like, oh my goodness, how did I end up here and how did I end up there? And I think like many people,
you approach entrepreneurship from a couple of different lanes. Like either you are, you have
this burning passion and desire to be an entrepreneur because you don't want to work for anybody,
even though you work for everybody. As an entrepreneur, you got to work for your clients,
you are working for somebody. Or sometimes opportunities fall on your lap. And so what I
think about Able Vision, it was twofold. It's like people kept coming to me for services.
And when they would come to me, I'm going, well, I need to have a company so that I can capture
what you all are going to pay me. And the other piece of that is that I really am fascinated by
the kind of, you know, just like the grit and the functionality and the commitment and what it takes
to be an entrepreneur. Those are like literally some of my most favorite people that I look up to
and I admire. And so for me, it's like, I have a service, I have a network, I have a specialty.
I should go ahead and profit off of that. And so it's really been, I would say, a labor of love.
In 2020, 2021 was extremely focused, grinding, committed, doing so much work that kind of at
some points had to turn down clients. And then in 2022, I came over to Naveri, and we'll talk a bit
about that later. And I had to step back a bit, right? And now I'm at a place where it's growing
where it's great because I have a wonderful cadence with Nareit. I have a wonderful team
that works with me at Ablevision. You know, those lives are separate and I'm able to lean in even
more in different ways. And so with Ablevision, we really focus on a few key things. At our core,
it's about how do you take things that are purposeful, but also make them profitable?
And how are we taking things that are profitable and working with our clients to make them
have purpose? And so we do a lot of outreach and engagement to connect companies, city governments,
nonprofit organizations, to very targeted markets and target populations. We focus primarily around
women, women of color, emerging entrepreneurs, also really working to go in and sit with leaders
around how they develop out inclusive operations and strategic planning and evaluation and program
development. Because oftentimes, you know, in smaller companies and in smaller nonprofits,
they may not have that in-house thought leader or that in-house strategist that they can work with.
So being able to offer those services and that support. And then most recently, what I'm excited
about is beginning to offer more of a suite of curriculum and services around increasing capacity.
So it was one thing for me to work with you to respond to RFPs or to respond to proposals for
funding or to go after grants. It's another thing to help you put some systems in place and or
resources that can make it a little more automated and systemized for you going forward. But you know,
we've had a good year. We've just in the last few years have helped organizations and companies
raise, you know, nearly five million dollars, have worked on some great strategic plans.
And I'm proud of the work and looking forward to seeing what we can do next.
That's an awesome story. Thank you.
Yeah. Before we get into your role, your current role at NAREIT, just for the benefit of the
audience, do you mind talking about the industry reach US as well as globally?
Yeah, this is too massive is the right word. And I often share that, you know, I've been in
economic development, community development for now at this point, like we said, almost two decades,
a closer to decades and dealt with a lot of developers, negotiated a lot of deals and just
everything in this space. And prior to joining NAREIT, you know, I'll be honest, I hadn't even
heard of a REACH. And now that I know what REACHs are and what their intent was, I am absolutely
fascinated. And I drank the Kool-Aid every single day. So, you know, just a little bit of context,
US REACHs were established in 1960 by Congress. And at the end of the day, the thought was that
this was going to be a vehicle and an opportunity that would give essentially all investors,
especially what we call small investors, access to income producing real estate. So it's like a way
to democratize real estate investment and then regulate it by the SEC. So it's something that
you can, you know, when you're investing into, I don't want to say, you know, investing is always,
you're taking a risk, right? And there's always some level of feeling unnerved about putting your
money into things. But this is an industry that's regulated. It's an industry that's been around for
quite some time and continues to grow and scale. And so within the REACH industry, there's 14
different sectors. And so when I tell people that I essentially work and represent commercial real
estate, they're like, oh, they immediately think about office. Oh, okay. Right. Or people think
about housing. But there's so much more to REACH into this industry than just office and housing.
I mean, it's covering things from industrial, it's covering things like self storage and data
centers, healthcare, lodging, timber. Like it just goes on and on and on. And so what I think is so
amazing about that is that it gives you an opportunity to figure out which of those sectors
is most palatable for you, you know, kind of understanding what the returns and the growth
is within those sectors and how that aligns with your investment and your growth strategies for
what you're trying to accomplish. But globally, I mean, trillions and trillions of dollars is
represented. And then NAREIT, which is an amazing organization, you know, represents, I think, close
to 90%, if not more of that industry here in the United States. And so REACH themselves own over
$4 trillion in gross assets across the U.S., about a trillion. And public REACH have more than $2
trillion in assets. So it's a massive industry. And I think there's amazing opportunity to begin
to further work with this industry to connect it to more diverse populations and communities and
to get those communities connected to REACH. Wow, that's awesome. It's kind of hard to get your
head around trillions. It is, right? Because we hear billion. Right. And I'm blown away by that.
Right. You actually put an S on that. Trillions. Trillions, yes. Exactly. Yes. So you guys
represent roughly 90% plus of the industry. What does NAREIT do on behalf of all these REACHs?
So NAREIT, you know, at its core is a trade association. We're a membership-based organization.
And I think about it in these kind of following buckets that, you know, as such, we are advocates
for the industry and for our members. And so we do a lot of advocacy. We manage a lot of relationships
and engagement with congressional members and politicians and even the public to be aware and
have accurate and timely information as it relates to the industry. Obviously, we're doing
as much promotion as possible and making sure that we're highlighting the positive outputs
and opportunities that the industry is advancing. We convene a lot. And when we do our convenings,
it's really with a purpose. The purpose is to educate and inform our members. And so our
convenings are, you know, conferences throughout the year that are bringing thought leaders and
educational information for our members. And we're producing research. And so we do a lot of research
so that people are aware of the industry, that they can understand the industry, and more importantly,
the way that this industry is performing to be able to debunk any kind of myths or misinformation
that gets circulated. And as of late, and I won't say, you know, in the last few years,
we're doing a lot as it relates to making sure that we're advancing kind of this collective social
impact and social responsibility of the industry on behalf of the industry across various communities
in the United States. And I would just add to that. You mentioned convening and conferences.
I don't want anybody to think that this is just a United States thing because global initiatives
are attached to your title as well. Can you just briefly talk about some of the places
that you've convened at on behalf of the organization? Yeah, that is a great point
because even though we are representing the United States, I mean, REITs and this regime
are, you know, depending on which source you're looking at, you know, are also established or
represented in more than 40 different countries around the world. And obviously, all of those
markets are at different levels, right, in terms of sophistication, in terms of advancement,
in terms of the number of REITs that they have and even like their market cap and assets and
their value. But at the end of the day, it's amazing to see countries like Kenya, countries like China,
Japan, parts of, you know, really across Europe, the Asia Pacific, where somehow I just recently
came back from Singapore, Canada. I mean, we could just go on and on and on about how other
countries have also recognized the value that REITs bring and can bring to their economy.
And something that I find very interesting is that, you know, in some of these more emerging
markets, we will see how they're really leveraging REITs or they're looking at REITs as a way to help
to further advance their economy through infrastructure. And so again, when I talk about
REITs and the power and the reach of them, it's so diverse and it really ranges. And so we have an
alliance that we have been able to stand in partnership with, which consists of our counterparts.
And when I say we, being neighborly, our counterparts in Asia Pacific, from Australia,
Canada, Europe, Japan, and the United Kingdom, they formed what is called the Real Estate Equity
Securitization Alliance. And at the end of the day, you know, their goal is to make sure that they are
using their brain power, that they are using their infrastructure, that they're using their
thought leadership, that they're using their resources to continue to support these other
countries in terms of advancing their regimes as well. And so it's been very fascinating
convening them twice a year. We were just recently in Singapore. Before that, I think we were in
Paris or London. So each of these amazing associations steps up twice a year to host and to
bring together these leaders to really have conversations around complex tax issues and
complex matters that they're trying to address from a legislative perspective, from a mental
health perspective, from a membership perspective, looking at things such as ESG, which is globally,
you know, impacting companies and countries. So it's an amazing resource and an amazing
alliance to see that power. If you don't mind, what will help the listeners understand what your day
to day is like? I'm like, is that a trick question? Because there is no day to day. But, Carmen, I love
that question so much. I'm serious. And one of the things that I've been trying to do more of,
honestly, in the last month and a half, two months is be a little more transparent and share more
about the work that I'm doing. Steve was saying I'm seeing you everywhere. And the reason I'm doing
that is because honestly, I've been asked by so many emerging professionals and even established
professionals who either want to transition into more roles around social responsibility
or who want to better understand what it's like to be a Black woman working in this industry. They
want to understand and see more of like, what do you do? How do you do it? And so for me,
every day, it's pretty different because the work that we're doing here at NAREIT in this vertical
is relatively new. We're building it and executing it at the same time, which for me works well,
because if you look at my background, that's pretty much a big history of doing that. And so
I have a lot of meetings with potential partners working across all the different verticals here
at NAREIT, our comms team, our memberships team, our meetings team, our public policy team,
looking at where we have intersectionality to advance the work that's happening.
I now have a portfolio of nine amazing national organizations that we just started to fund
in the last year. So interfacing with them and understanding programs that they're trying to
execute, how we can connect that back to our members, making sure that they're on track and
feel supported. So it's really, my job does on a day to day vary, but it's also consistent.
As I think about my days when I was in the public sector, running agencies or being a political
appointee, my goodness, it was like drinking out of a fire hose every five minutes. And here,
it's not a fire hose, but it is definitely a drip that comes on a consistent basis. And my job is
to make sure I have the cups that catch it and release it. Excellent. So what I found amazing
about your organization, and I think our listeners really well, is its dedication to diversity,
equity, and inclusion. So starting with the supplier level, tell us about the initiatives
you all have that are diversifying the commercial real estate industry from the supply chain level.
One of the things that really attracted me to this role was when I was informed that
we were looking to establish essentially another alliance or consortium that would focus on
connecting women-owned and diverse-owned businesses to our members. And we've already
talked about the magnitude of this industry and just the different sectors that are represented.
And so when you think about the procurement and the buying power of these companies and them saying,
we want to be in a position to understand how we can better support, how we can better identify,
how we can better onboard, how we can better procure with diverse vendors, I was all in.
And so last year, we piloted because we wanted to make sure that we can use a couple years,
because this is brand new. This has never happened really across any other industry,
and it certainly hasn't happened here. But how do we use this time to collect data,
to beta test, to roll things out, and to really build the momentum and work out any kind of tweaks
that we may have as it relates to making sure that diverse vendors are being connected and that our
members are ready to be able to expand these types of skills and services to bring into their
supply chain. And so what we launched is a consortium called CREDS. And that CREDS consortium
is comprised of NAREIT International Council of Shopping Centers, so ICSC. I know many of
your listeners are familiar with them. MBA, which is the Mortgage Bankers Association, NAOC,
the National Multifamily Housing Council, the Real Estate Roundtable, and CRU, which is the
Commercial Real Estate Women's Network. So when you think about these organizations all coming
together, and that's like a common theme that I think is happening across the work that I do,
is that, and that we're doing here at NAREIT, is that it's about building collectives. You know,
we can go out here independently, but if we can go out as a collective, we really feel that our
reach and our impact is more sustainable, and it's going to be far more far, far reaching, right? And
so collectively, what we are attempting to do is to create this blueprint that allows for our members
to be able to have a single source. Right now, we're using a company called Supplier Gateway,
which is a Black-owned company out of Chicago, and they are being directed to that platform
to go in to identify different types of vendors, contractors, even looking to figure out how do we
use that to, you know, possibly support joint ventures and other types of collaborations.
And so it's, I'm excited, you know, right now we have about 20 companies who have made that commitment,
and these are 20 major companies who have amazing buying power. And so we're continuing to scale
that and figure out what the next phase of that looks like. And so for any of your listeners,
who obviously are suppliers, vendors, contractors, etc., the first thing I would
encourage them to do is to go to Supplier Gateway and to register their companies on Supplier Gateway.
It's free, it does not take a lot of time, and it's something that we're pushing and continuing to
to figure out how we leverage as a vehicle to support our members with bringing more diverse
businesses into their supply chain. Do you have to be a member of NAREIT?
No, you do. So that's the thing. So Supplier Gateway, which is the portal and or platform,
whichever terminology one wants to use, is free and open to any body. So you can literally go on
there right now and register your company to be in that portal. And so what that means is,
you know, let's say you're offering accounting services or maybe you are, you know, a contractor,
you do commercial contracting, whatever it is, we are asking our members who have signed up
and subscribe, our members are paying a subscription, they go in and now they're trying to do a search.
Okay, I need X, Y, and Z, because they've made a commitment to maybe put to market or to bid out a
certain, you know, a certain set of services. And so we're saying, hey, let's all utilize Supplier
Gateway to see how collectively, you know, we can begin to move the needle or shift this narrative
and be able to bring in more diverse vendors. And so you do not have to be a member, you don't have
to do anything to register your company onto Supplier Gateway.
Okay, that's pretty neat. And that's just, you know, and that's just a part of it, right? And so,
because certainly, what I say is great, we can have a gazillion companies in that portal, but we
also understand the importance of making sure that the companies who are in these portals, you know,
next up is like, how do we continue to increase their capacity? How do we continue to increase
their capacity? How do we continue to foster trust and connectivity between, you know, our members
procurement teams and companies that they haven't necessarily ever done business with before? So
that doesn't sound like we're, you know, as through this pilot, we're able to see what is working,
where we can continue to improve. And it's also what I say is like one of many tactics to address
this strategy. And so even with Supplier Gateway, and the work that we're doing as this creds
consortium with all the organizations I just named, you know, we're also we being a read through our
foundation, making investments into nonprofit organizations that are working to increase the
capacity of diverse vendors and creating opportunities to connect their, you know, their
clients and the folks that the businesses that they serve also back to the industry. So we're taking,
you know, I think bold steps. We all know that these types of changes don't necessarily happen
overnight. It's going to be a tough people. This is marathon work, not sprint work, even though we
would love for it to be a sprint. But at the end of the day, I just I get so excited. Sometimes I
get chills when I think about the actual magnitude of what we have before us when we think of think
about these procurement and capital opportunities for diverse and women owned, black owned, brown
owned, whatever we want to call, right, whatever terms we're using these days. But for those of us
who have not traditionally had these opportunities to now begin to have these opportunities to create
what I say is like generational wealth building, wealth changing business.
And it seems like there's a feedback loop to talk to the vendors and say, hey,
what's going on? Is it working? Where's some of the roadblocks? And you continue to make
make the cycle better. That's the goal. And so we're actually assessing now, you know, we're
we're we're conducting surveys with our members or setting up one on ones. We're having conversations
with the administrator supplier gateway. We're sharing our feedback collectively as a consortium.
And and that's what I value, because we could certainly just say, oh, we piloted this for a
couple of years. And here's what happened. Here's what didn't happen. And we didn't make any attempt,
right, to make it the best in class or to meet the goals that we initially set out with. Like,
everyone takes this extremely seriously. And even our members, they have given us a lot of feedback.
And that is something that I continue to value is that we get we have members who are vocal.
They are very vocal. And we see it as a responsibility to make sure that we respond
to what they vocalize to us. And that's really how we ended up doing even this initiative. And
many of the initiatives that we are launching, because they've shared with us through this
amazing council that I get to coordinate, caught our dividends through diversity, equity and inclusion
CEO Council. So this is almost 30 CEOs who run some of the largest REITs in the world.
They convene a multiple multiple times a year. And they say, hey, here's what the priorities are
that we have in this space, here where we see opportunities, and here's where we see gaps. And
so, you know, pipeline development and recruiting young people into the field has been a big issue.
I don't want to say issue, but a big priority for them and making sure that they're retaining that
talent, making sure that we can support them on their journey to diversify their supply chain,
among several other priorities. And so what you see, the work that I'm doing, the work that we're
doing at NAREIT is really in direct response to what they have shared that they want additional
support, resources and opportunities around. Wow, that's pretty awesome. But you guys go
beyond just the supply chain, you're also increasing diversity at the individual level as well. Do you
have some some programs at that level? You know, we do and we don't. And I would say indirectly.
And I really another question that I value, Steve, because when I think about the individual level,
you know, I'm thinking about like individual investors who can, you know, start making those
contributions into REITs, which absolutely can happen. And we have yet to really, I would say,
hunker down and hyper focused to that level. But indirectly through an individual level, we are,
you know, to your point, supporting because of partners like Project Destin, partners like the
U.S. Black Chamber and or the NASDAQ Entrepreneurial Center, any of the I would say nine grantees that
were funding through our grant program under this initiative, certainly touch individuals. And so
today, just even I got to spend the morning with Project Destin and some amazing, 20 amazing
students that we are taking through a new program that they designed in partnership with us,
which is a REIT Bridge program. So it is really like a six week immersion course for these young
people who have an interest in careers within the REIT industry. And so they have curriculum that
they go through to have these classes. And then we're coupling that with mentors and speakers
and site visits. And so today we were at JBG's national landing down in Virginia. JBG is a member
of ours. Actually, their president, CEO, Matt Kelly is the chair of our board. So that was phenomenal.
They're one of the contributors and donors to our Dividends through Diversity, Equity and Inclusion
grant. So, you know, that is absolutely, I think, an individual impact. And I heard that three of
those young people are actually going into jobs when they graduate at REITs. And so that was like,
wow, okay. I mean, again, when I say it's marathon work, and I say to folks, every win for me, every
bit of a chip at this big mountain that we're trying to break down is literally a win, because
those are three young people who would not have probably traditionally had opportunities to go
into these roles, right? And so now they're going in, they're prepared, they're exposed,
they're confident, and they don't necessarily look like and or possibly come from some of the same
background or pedigree that we traditionally see within the industry. And so I think that that's
progress day by day, you know, one person at a time, one business at a time. It's just, it's a lot.
Now, I would definitely say so. You're right, there's the individual level in terms of investors,
but actually the folks who want to start a career, you know, in these types of industry, that's
absolute. I can say even a drip level, it's more level. That's right. So no, excellent work.
I know we touched on this a little bit, but what do I have to do to become a member?
I tell people, if you want to become a member, the first thing you should do is send an email
to member at nareet.com. We have an amazing membership team that's
led and supported by a group that's been around for quite some time. That's one of the things I love
about NAREIT. You know, when I was coming here, I was like, wow, folks have been here for, you know,
some years, but that's great, because they know the ins and outs of the industry, they know the
ins and outs of the organization, and we're able to create a lot of different types of
state programming and resources in response to what our members need. But we do have two different
types of membership. We have our corporate membership, which is for REITs and publicly
traded real estate companies, so, you know, more of the large scale companies. But then we also have
individual level members, and those are really people who are, I would say, stakeholders who
support the REIT industry or the commercial real estate industry. So a lot of, you know, within
that space, we'll see various professionals from either consulting or companies who individually
want to join or other types of professional service companies and or people who have their own
businesses and are looking for opportunities to further network and connect with industry leaders.
And so that individual membership, I'm pretty certain is just under $1,000 for the year. But
again, if people have questions or they have an interest in becoming a member, they should
definitely reach out to member at NAREIT, N-A-R-E-I-T dot com, and they'll give them all the
specifications. Nice. So this position has taken you all over the world. And like I said, I know
you a little bit, so I've seen some of the places you've been to. The question I have is, how do you
handle work-life balance? You know, I realize that's a relative term, but what does balance look like
for you? You know, that is not work-life balance. I love, I like the terminology and theory, but
it's not one that I actually really use, because when you think about balance, in order to balance
something, I mean, you have to essentially give equal attention to multiple things. And to me,
that is counterproductive to what it is that we're trying to achieve. Like we're trying to get to this
place of feeling like zinned and relaxed. And if I'm having to give as much time to work and as
much time to my personal, I don't know, it just doesn't, it just seems like I'm giving, giving,
giving. And so one of the things that I try to say to myself that I practice now is work-life
boundaries. And I really did have to learn that even coming into this role last year, the last
year, I gained like 22 pounds. People will say, oh my God, you know, you're traveling, you're
having all these meetings, you're doing X, Y, and Z, and they want to glamorize it. And I say all
the time, I feel so fortunate and blessed to be in this role, but there are some things that come
with that, right? Like you're eating out a lot, you're sitting on planes for a long time, which
is impacting your circulation. You're, you know, I'm a fitness guru, my workout routines are
disrupted. So it was really hard on my body. And there were things that I had to give up,
but giving that up didn't give me balance. And so what I'm now doing is like, I literally have
boundaries and I'm okay with that. I say no to many things. And I'm finding that when I'm saying
no, I don't feel like I have to give to either or it's just like, this is where I'm at right now.
And I can give all of my time and attention to just sitting down and turning off, which I
do, but you know, I aspire to do, but boundaries is a lot easier for me to manage than trying to
have what some refer to as balance. What about the fear of missing out? Do you feel like in this
announcement, you didn't go to networking? Never, I never, ever, ever feel like I'm missing out.
There's no FOMO in me. And one of the things that's very, I have to debunk this with people
all the time. People think that I'm an extrovert. They think that I am external and I'm doing all
these things and I'm everywhere. Nine times out of 10 heiresses at home, like you might see a
smidgen of what I'm doing and it looks like all the time I'm doing something. I am a homebody,
an introvert. I never fear like I'm missing out. And one of the great things that I do value is
about this role and the leaders and the team that I work with is that I don't feel like
that pressure like you feel when you're working. And I would just say for me, like in the political
circuits that I was in or some of the really brutal corporate environments that I was in,
here we do work hard, believe you me, but I do value that they value how we feel. And sometimes
my supervisors, she'll call out sometimes and be like, you can say no heiress or I need you to just
sit down. I need you to slow down. And I'm like, okay. Even when I first came in, I had these big
goals and I was laying out all these things I wanted to do in our system and I was like,
okay, you can spread that out. And I was like, really? Because I'm so used to coming from
environments where that was just not a thing. And so you did fear like if you weren't producing,
even if you weren't really producing real outcomes or impact, you were always trying to do
something. And so one of my favorite CEOs that I worked for, Andy Zop at World Business Chicago,
when she first came in, she said, I see a lot of activity, but no strategy. And I was like,
ooh. And so when I think about FOMO in terms of the workplace, you do see places and there are
cultures that will create that fear that you got to constantly be looking as though you're doing
something for the sake of doing something, but you're not really having an impact. And so
I value one being a person who never fears that I'm missing out on some social event or some
activity. And I value being in an organization that does not make you feel like if you're not
just producing a lot of busy outputs, right? Like you're not accomplishing something. So no,
no FOMO over here.
What's your networking approach as an introvert? How do you network in that relationship?
Yeah, I network differently now than I did before. And I think that that has a lot to do with kind
of where I am professionally and where I am even personally, right? What do I have? I asked myself,
it used to be one of the driving questions and people are saying like, why do you do something?
And I think that's an important question to answer why, so you understand what's behind it. But I
also really focused on the work that I do. And I think that's one of the things that I've been
behind it. But I also really focus a lot on to what end. And so when I say that it's, you know,
I want to say how much networking can one do, but it's like how much networking can one do,
right? My goodness, I have a couple of girlfriends, it's like every other day they are at some event,
trying to network. And I'm like, you've been a professional for over 25 years. Like what is left?
You are already at X level, what is left? What are you doing when you're in those rooms? And so for me,
when I'm networking, and I don't like to use this word, because we can overuse it here in the States,
but it really is with intentionality. Like I have to be there because there is really some value in
terms of a potential contract or a new client or a new, you know, there has to be a direct tieback,
and not just to be there in hopes that I might meet or I might. And so I don't know that,
I just, those days are over. And I think too, in the past, I used to have a lot of responsibility
that required me to do a lot of events and activities because of the roles that I was in,
particularly when I was in, you know, working like in the mayor's office or running agencies,
you had to always be somewhere. So now it really is, it's just a, I try to be a lot more thoughtful
because I got to, you know, have those boundaries so I could have some energy
to do the things that I'm trying to do. But you have to know, and I was talking with a young lady
recently who was telling me to, she's like, I go to all these different things, but nothing is coming
out of it. And I said, but what's your priority right now? Like, what are you trying to focus on?
Because if your goal is to bring more, like you're trying to bring more money into your
organization, then why are you spending your time going to events that are filled with the room
that looks just like you with everyone who's doing what you do? You're not at the event
there's funders, you're not at an event where there's grant tours and donors and she, you know,
so again, it's like, you have to really think about why and what. And so I always just encourage
folks to think about who they want to be in front of. Just to add to that, so what, what
organizations are you a part of now? Now that you are more mature in your career? Yeah, I am,
you know, a proud member of Delta Sigma Theta Sorority Incorporated. And even just the past
weekend, you know, it was such a blessing. We had our economic empowerment expo here in DC at
Martha's table. And they said, heirs, would you come and kind of share your story for what you've
done to build wealth throughout, you know, your life story around building generational wealth
and your commitment to kind of breaking these, you know, I say financial curses that can impact
us. And can you talk about REITs and, you know, the work that you do? And of course, I'm happy
to do that. And it was beautiful to see that room full of women absorbing that information
and the amount of women who followed up. So anytime Delta asked me to show up, I'm going to show up,
you know, I'm the president and the chartering president for the National Coalition of 100 Black
Women. And so that works me like no other. That works me to the bone. Okay, they have me all over
the place, trying to, you know, advance the mission and make sure that the work that we're
doing to advocate on behalf of women and girls here in the district. So I'm always going to show
up for that. And so there's a common theme with me, really, entrepreneurs and women, you know,
I'm super passionate about, you know, giving back to women and supporting entrepreneurs. And so a
lot of my civic support and my philanthropic personally, support goes within those buckets.
But other than that, not much, because I've said no to a lot of things and rolled off of a lot of
boards. I serve on the board for philanthropy DMV. So we're an organization that wants to,
not wants to, but aspires to support donors here in the DMV foundations, high net worth and
institutional donors who are making investments into organizations, looking to address a lot of
the socioeconomic disparities that we have here in the region. So that's it in that show.
All the stuff you do, you really don't have to go out and network, just the organizations and the
events that you go to, it's almost organic, I would think. Yeah, it is. It is. It is.
The other thing I would say that was probably beneficial to you, it's a difference between
networking and relationships. And I know you've had some high power jobs, you know, in the district
and the political scene. So I always tell folks at the end of the day, you can network all you want,
but it's a big difference between networking relationships. Yeah. And that is, that for me is
a lot more meaningful than, oh, I went and met 15 people at a surface level versus, you know,
I was able to connect with one person, even if I connect with one new person a month, I mean,
that's 12 people a year. That's a lot on top of what you already have. Like, and then you got to
cultivate that. I mean, it takes a lot to properly network. And I have, I don't know, maybe 30 people
a week, I'm not even exaggerating, who reach out to me wanting to speak or connect or talk. And
sometimes I'm like, and I was like, what exactly do you think connect? And I don't mean it in a
nasty way, but it's like, what exactly are you expecting from this interaction with me? Like,
why you? Because sometimes they haven't even done the research, they might just see a title or a
name or organization I'm affiliated with, and make an assumption. And so I'm really trying to
save them time and energy because you don't get in front of me and ask what and say what.
So I hear you. So I would say just to kind of wrap up the question that you mentioned talking
to young folks as part of what you do. But overall, what advice would you give to current
students or young professionals starting out in their careers? You know, if you had to start all
over again, and if you had to start all over again, would you do anything different?
Would I do anything differently? I, you know, hindsight is always 2020. And I can't think of
what I would do differently because what I did was navigate the hand that I was dealt. And,
you know, I knew what I knew. I had a lot going on as a child. My father passed away abruptly
when I was 13 from a heart attack. And I was actually living with my father at the time. And
so there was a lot that I was just carrying with me. I probably was not the most joyful, brightest
young person to be around. So to even have accomplished the things that I was able to
accomplish is, you know, nothing but the grace of God and some amazing counselors and an amazing
mother who was very patient with me. But I do think, you know, there were times where
I shrunk a little bit because it wasn't cool to be smart. You know, it wasn't cool to be
the girl who was into things that the majority of my peers were not into. Like I've always,
you know, I'm a little bit of an outlier. I already talked about being a social,
like being socially awkward and an introvert. I really loved art. I loved poetry and writing.
So some of those things just were kind of counter to what my peers were into. And so I definitely
tried to fit within those molds. And that's a little bit unfortunate. And so, you know,
for young people who are starting out their careers, I think more than anything is not to
compare themselves to others. That comparison is the thief of joy. That's what I tell folks.
Comparison is the thief of joy. And more so than ever, I think in this day and age, there's just
so much through social media, which is all a lie, first of all, that makes you think that, oh,
if I haven't hit 30 under 30, you know, I'm lost out. Or it's like, what? Like 30 under 30,
don't we? Like, wow, you're 28 and you're an expert. And I'm not saying you can't,
but it's like, yo, you got to put in some work. And so when you see those types of narratives
being pushed, I think it makes young people have a certain level of distortion. And so my thing is,
your lane is your lane and you have to be comfortable, literally comfortable walking
in your lane because trust you, me, half of what you see or half of what you think or what they say
is now the new norm or the new standard, you know, in a few months, it's going to change. And so,
as my daughter told me when she was coming up on her sixth year for her four year degree, bless her,
bless her, she said, my race, my pace. I said, okay. And that really struck me though. I mean,
it is your race and it is at your pace. And I think that's the biggest piece of advice that
I would give them. And so lastly, have high standards. You know, I really like show up fully.
Today, when I was out there with those young people from Cedric Bobo's program, Project Destin,
I was blown away. I'm talking about the level of excellence, the high standards, the quality of the
questions and just their presentation. I was, I couldn't, I'm like, you're in college, get out of
here. I hadn't seen that in quite some time. So kudos to him and kudos to them. But you know,
you got to show up in a manner in which you really want to be received. And so I think when we see
these young folks who come kind of lackadaisical or, you know, not really going a little bit above
and beyond or hitting these high standards, and then they get frustrated because they're not getting
the kind of due respect or opportunities that they think they deserve. I'm like, well, why do
you think you deserve it? You just like you turned in a document that was full of errors or fully
think through, you know, so have high standards, show up and don't compare yourself to others.
Yeah. And I, it was a, you probably realized that you said another golden nugget that I really have
to highlight it. I mean, you said you navigated the hand that you had dealt with. That's right.
Yeah. And I got to just, for the sake of those out there, I want to highlight that because life
comes at you fast and you really do have to, it's up to you to negotiate those choppy waters.
You got to, you got to and have the grit and the desire if you have it to really figure it out. And
so some days I go, man, I should have figured this out, you know, years ago, or I should have been,
I should be at X again, right back to that comparison or just me being so hard on myself.
And it's like, okay, well, who in your family had ever been exposed to some of the things that
you're accomplishing or that you're experiencing now, right? You, you, you don't know what you
don't know. And so that's another thing when we talk about networking and we talk about, you know,
moving forward, do not be afraid to be around those who are in the spaces and places that you
aspire, or at least you think you aspire to be, because the only way you're going to find out
what's, you know, what works or what doesn't work or how you succeed or excel is by immersing
yourself in those uncomfortable places. And so when you talk to me about networking, like
Curvin, that's where I'm at these days. I'm in the places where I'm so uncomfortable,
rooms that I never thought I would be in. That's where I want to be, not the ones that are familiar
and comfortable. It's like, I can do that. I've done that. Now I need to be continuing to push
myself and to elevate, not just for me, but for my daughter and my nieces and, you know, trying to
be an example for other young ladies. Excellent. Well, great. Well, that's going to wrap us up
with another episode of the Real Estate Shop. Aris, thanks for stopping by and chopping it up
with Curvin and I, and we will definitely look forward to dropping this and make sure you get
pushed out there. All right. Thank you. I love it.
I love it. Another day at the shop, content they can't get anywhere else.