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This is the real estate shop where each episode will bring you a top industry expert to share their current programs or projects that are making an impact in our communities today.

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Be sure to check us out on Spotify and Apple podcasts.

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I can't complain, can't complain. I look like it's good.

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I just wanted to thank you for making time to speak to our audience. What was your first position that you have in the industry. Oh man, what depends on how broadly you define the industry.

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Because when I guess the summers between my eighth grade year my freshman year of high school, and my ninth grade year my 10th grade year, I roofed houses for a guy named Glenn Rossi out in Suffolk County, Long Island.

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Mostly Tar Shingles did some demo work as well for a sub that he had a few different houses out there. It was great. You know my my improvement on Spanish from eighth grade Spanish to 10th grade Spanish was massive over the summer.

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And I'm still not handy around the house right unless your roof is leaking or you want to blow out some drywall but that was my first real real estate job.

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It's funny right. I got a lot of technical training when I was a lot younger than that.

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He's my father made my real estate education, and my real education kind of happened simultaneously. Right. So, when kids learn addition, subtraction and like how to carry numbers right or how to borrow.

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I learned that on a piano. Right, so we would work together by hand to figure out what net operating income.

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And, you know, when you learn long division, right or multiplication where you do the addition below it.

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I learned that the day I learned what a cap rate was right and how to find building value, and how to calculate your interest payments on mortgage.

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So it was all real estate was always a part of what I was doing. I think when you're a young kid, you know you're kind of frustrated that your dad's giving you extra homework.

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But ultimately, you know, you're 1516, and you have an understanding of a lot of the hard skills that are necessary to underwrite and navigate real estate transaction.

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That's awesome man. I think I heard the cat rate story before and always like man.

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Yeah, it was fucking I can't can I curse I curse.

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I was fucking annoying.

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I think my dad's got these word problems for what you know, like, no, and we would come home writer, or you got wanted to do something you always have like a word problem something I want to go to McDonald's after basketball practice they get okay.

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I'm sorry about how much you think that building works. Right.

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But I'll be like pop quiz like define the difference between gross square feet and net rentable square feet, which one bigger, you know, you know, so I don't think he gave me much of a choice and I could have been a doctor, you know, but I fell into this and love it, but

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I mean, their lives driven I could have been saving.

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As well. What led you to establish legacy real estate development and what impact is your firm looking to have on communities.

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I think there's two answers to, you know, to what caused me to start legacy. Right. The first one is a really practical answer, you know, people's core focuses on public private partnership means you buy land for municipalities and repurpose them to private uses and because

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you know, governors and mayors, if they're doing things right, don't get a promote if they sell the building for a lot of money, right.

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They get reelected, they get reelected by doing things for their condition, and that's a bunch of policy objectives. So when the municipality sell the piece of property they care about reoccurring tax revenue about about union jobs, about creation of affordable

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housing. And so when we thought about policy objectives that cities cared meaningfully about in the early on, and in the 90s. That was revitalizing that formerly economically and franchise downtown courts.

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Right, it was taking high income earners out from the suburbs and bringing them back down in the city centers. And that meant luxury development hotels, you know, exceptional high end retail.

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But post GFC, the paradigm change right cities were too successful in that endeavor price a lot of working folks out of the urban centers. And so affordable housing like made its way to the top of the municipal cultural zeitgeist, for lack of a better word

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and what happened is we didn't know how to do affordable house and he knew actually a big part of my education. But we, you know, offloaded affordable housing responsibilities that their parties, you know have a lot of control there didn't go as well as we

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wanted. And so eventually we said, you know, let's figure it out. And, and, you know, we tried to we certainly think we figured it out now we've got a $350 million affordable housing pipeline nationally, we're not only in DC or in Boston or Miami.

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So we do a lot a lot of different places.

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But that was, you know, that's the practical answer right so that the answer one a right. That's why someone sort of around people's corporate started an affordable housing development business right.

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I think answer one be is a lot more personal.

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You know, I got an extraordinarily successful father, right.

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You know, a leader in the space, you know, in every measurable outcome. I think that as a sort of second generation real estate guy.

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You, you have this, you have these competing objectives, right, on one hand, like a lot of sons right especially sons who share the same name with their father, wouldn't be just like him.

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You want to do everything that your dad does, you know, because you look up. Right. And on the other hand, you're like I want to make a name for myself I want to do my own thing.

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Right, and at both of those things you feel sort of both of those at the same time, and legacy was the exact right answer to achieve both of those objectives simultaneously right.

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I want to be just like my dad I want to be a real estate developer right.

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And I love how he did it. I wanted. I want to add something unique and something a little different.

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You know, it's like when you know, like, my mom's got sisters and sisters, good cooks, you know, and she is a recipe for her sister.

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It's already good.

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But she had a couple different things to it to make it her own.

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Right.

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That's, that's how I think of legacy and that's that's answer one, be it's, you know, want to be just like the big guy. Right. We want it to feel like.

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And then the second piece of your question is the big question so I got to talk for a while with the right answers.

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The second piece of your question what do we hope to achieve for communities right, I think that that's such a such an important question.

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Right.

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But I don't kid myself right and thinking that housing is just the answer right housing is a start.

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You know what I want legacy to help achieve for communities is the same thing that I think, you know, the communities want for themselves that the politicians who represent those communities want that the fathers and mothers and grandparents who are in those

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communities want for the children. Right, which is, you know, to create equal access to opportunity, and to create the framework for a better life.

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And I think the big challenge that we have in America is that it's not your race or your gender, or your sexual orientation that by and large, dictate how you turn out.

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It's your zip code.

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The most important decision you can make in a child life is where you're going to raise him or her.

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And affordable housing and certainly affordable housing the way that I aspire to do affordable housing. Right.

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helps bridge the gap between the good zip codes and the bad zip codes.

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But I'm not naive enough to think that it's just affordable housing that solves that problem. Right. I think that it's affordable housing.

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It's not just affordable housing and housing itself as a start but it's the community that you create around that housing right the resources that you, you know, push in to the community that surrounds that housing right.

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You know the opportunities that exist outside of that housing that that achieve the outcome that we want. Right. So, I aspire to be a small piece and a much bigger puzzle.

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Yeah, you know, I grew up in Dorchester and Massachusetts and you're doing a project in Boston when you tell me about I couldn't believe the location.

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Yeah, well that's what it is right here to grows up in the back bay, you're better off like just statistically different off and then a kid for a group at Dorchester or frankly anywhere else in in Massachusetts.

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Yeah, I mean, the zip code that we're proposing to build 100% affordable housing is the zip code that people propose to build ultra luxury condominiums that sell out for $3,000 a square foot.

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Right. And so, so that in itself is a paradigm breaking decision, but like anything that done for the first time and frankly anything that's really meaningful. It's hard to do.

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Right.

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I think that that's the fun part of this business and how we approach this business is we get these really a typical executions we get these really really tall mountains to climb.

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Right, and we've got to figure out how to be the first person to climb them.

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Walk through your day to day your typical day as chairman of legacy. Why did you choose to, you know, step in the chairman role.

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You know, so I answered the second question first because I think it's important question I think, look, I'm, I'm a young guy, right.

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You're a young guy who's been exposed to a lot from very early age so this is not that I'll feel all that young and see we've known each other for 10 years but 29.

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Right, so you knew me before I graduated college.

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I don't profess to know everything about how real estate development is done I know a lot, you know, but there are a ton of folks with multiples of my experience.

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And, you know, I think I found somebody in that, Gerard Delaney, who's just who's done it for a while who's done it in places that are indelibly complex and circumstances that are really nuanced and has seen a lot of things right, particularly

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in the report of Island states that I haven't seen.

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Like it to do justice to his experiences to keep him in as CEO.

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And for me to remain on as chairman.

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You know, I think that it's important to build a big tent. Right, and, and it's, it's important to build a great team.

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Right, and the goal is championships nine VP awards.

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So I'm obviously you know, so that's at least you know how we've thought of our corporate organization and why I stepped into the chairman role.

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Now, I spent so much time answering the second question I forgot the first question, Kerr, what was that? Oh my day to day, my day to day.

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Terrible. I mean, I like it but it's not fun for y'all. So, on the weekday, my alarm goes off at 445 am immediately I do what all high powered executives do.

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I turn over I pick up my phone, I consider hitting snooze and Instagram and I flip through that for about five or six minutes.

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You know, at some point right I get up, I eat a little bit, and I walk over to the gym. I work out with a buddy of mine, actually extraordinarily accomplished guy outside of real estate, we won't hold his career choices against him.

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His name is Troy Jones he founded a virtual reality gaming company after playing football in college called status probe.

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This is my shameless plug. You know, but you like virtual reality gaming and you like football.

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You should definitely check it out, you can buy the best buy and stuff like that but he's created an awesome company and awesome guy and I think you know, in large part of who you surround yourself with is really important part, a really important component of who you are.

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So he and I get a workout in at 530 workout from 530 to seven, give or take, or, you know, I try to get out there early, but you know football guys got like a 45 minute warm up so sometimes.

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I go back home shower shave, and in the office by about 838 45.

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I have three categories in my to do list right I have it today. I have a long term and I have a personal. And the goal of the day is outlined in the to do list and they're organized by priority.

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So I work my way down.

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If you know to do this ends up being 20 things long by the end of the day if I get through nine it's an average day if I get through 12 killing it, I've never asked them all out.

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Okay, you guys are in the business I'm sure most of the folks who listen to this turn the business as well.

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So, no two days are the same. A lot of a lot of talking on the phone some mass some in person meetings I think you're always playing, you know, especially be a multiple projects in multiple places you're always playing multiple layers of chess,

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right, you're thinking about how where you are in this deal and what that next problem is where you want the next one and where the next problem is so on. So, no two days are the same, but I try to get out of the office.

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I don't know, you know, 745 eight o'clock.

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I go to bed so early that's like bedtime for me so I drive home, and I go to sleep.

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During football season at the Dolphins have a team game like Tivo it or for it.

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And that's, that's it, wake up and hit the ground running again.

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Yeah, I told you it wasn't gonna be exciting like you might even cut that we already we already know like the most boring fucking possible.

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Human could have.

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Exactly.

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We always had a to do this, and that that, you know, grenade gets launched in and just blows everything up and you're like, Oh my god. Oh yeah, no but every day the grenade gets launched in and fuck every day.

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I just like, I just do it just so that I know that it's going to get ruined later but there's like pretending that there's structure, you know, I love it like I love going on dates right like, and she asked me like what what you do.

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Right. And I'm like, Oh, I'm in real estate, and she'll go, Oh, so you still house it. I wish.

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Yeah, you know, it's, it's like they're boring days from a structure standpoint but they're really exciting because you get to solve a lot of problems that are a lot of that are really different.

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Right, you get to solve people problems most right which is like how do I get these people to see it my way. Right.

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And you get to solve like ergonomic problems, a lot like I have this box it has these rules how can I make it the biggest box right right or the most saleable box, or how can I make it the least expensive box.

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Right. And so you need these like real sort of physical problems in space.

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And then you have these math problem, right, and you know like well you know, especially Steve with with incurring with what we do in affordable housing, all structured sense. Right. Right. So it's how can we get creative to leverage all available

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government subsidies.

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You know, and resources in order to bring something that but for those resources otherwise wouldn't exist right to create an impossibility and capitalism, you know, which is to create something that's worth less than the cost to construct.

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Right. So you're naturally losing dollars right find a way to bridge that gap and create a little extra so you know that problem to me is always is always the most fascinating people don't think about is like how much the, the legislative

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environment changes, and how being on the cutting edge of that gives you such a meaningful advantage over your competitors.

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Yeah, that that enough will keep you busy man it's just a community meetings aspect that I can handle and I'm trying to learn it.

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But I just asked a tough part.

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You know what I don't mind, honestly, honestly, I don't mind, I don't I kind of like that, man I love it like like I've been trying recently to reframe difficult shit.

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Like, difficult shit is the reason nobody else does it, but that's the reason that I get paid to do the exact time there's like a big challenge, you know, yeah, I'm like, okay, okay, this is why I'm the guy here.

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Like I understand. That's true.

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People man if it was easy everybody be doing it something that you know, it's fucking hard and it stretches you you're moving in the right direction right like that.

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And the other thing is, you gotta lean it, you gotta find difficulty and be like, this is where I need to be headed. This is, you know, this is where the growth happens.

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And, you know, I like the community meetings, you know, not because I think they're like an integral pillar of democracy.

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It's a little frustrating sometimes when you thought about something for years and somebody shows up having looked at a PowerPoint presentation 10 minutes ago and has an idea that you've never thought about.

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Just for our audience like what was it like growing out legacy, right, you talked about hiring Gerard and building a team.

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You talked to us about that. It's a different skill set, actually, between creating a business and generating economic surplus, right, and, and building a team and creating replicable outcome.

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Right. And so a lot of what I have to or had to reframe my thinking is to go from. What's the best deal decision to how can we create processes that lead us to individual decisions that are in the best interest of projects.

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Right. It's thinking about like, okay, like, how can we make replicable outcomes, right and continue to refine our internal processes to to work independently of sort of me as the founder.

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Right and Gerard's been a great part of it. Rob's been Rob Salcedo joined us a couple of months ago and another awesome part of it. Right, but, you know, it's, it's about putting the right team together to do the right things.

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And making sure that that team kind of shares the same ethics and values that you have.

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And I'm really lucky to, you know, to have guys on my side that work harder than me that in large part are smarter than I am, you know that that see angles that I don't see.

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And just like when I talk about friendships right it's important that your friends are people you admire. Right, and that they have any evil characteristics that you can replicate, like I love it when my friends are doing something like I don't do, you know,

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like, like, you know, track work, right. Yeah, I'll go to the gym and lift weights and work out then but like I won't go on the track later on in the day and do sprints, you know, like Troy does that I like that Troy does that I don't do it, I feel like a little

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bit self conscious. And, you know, I got another friend that tracks his time during the day I don't do that right but he does he tracks how he makes cash and he tracks how he spends every minute of every day to make sure that it's aligned with with how he wants to live in his

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life. I think that's just inspiring I'm self conscious, and I should be doing that right they always push you. It's amazing when when you know, guys on our team right do the same thing.

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This is a great example, you know, came in, you think, we don't have a real onboarding process. And then he made one.

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Right.

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You know, he's like hey we don't have a standard operating procedure for how we underwrite deals. So he made one right.

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We don't have a checklist to make sure that you didn't miss anything in your model and you're diligent, and he made one. Right, those are the kind of guys you want on your side.

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You know, because those are the kind of you're only, you know, you're only as strong as your weakest Lincoln and in legacy's case that's me. So I'm pretty strong so I feel really good about our chances.

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But you know it's, it's a different disposition, then, then being an entrepreneur being sort of a founder owner proprietor, but I think it's one that you know I'm excited to lean into that I've got my father and I've got your rod is folks who, you know, giving tons of guidance

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and that's been nice.

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You know, you tell the audience what it was like to complete your first deal. Yeah, yeah, you know it's tough to done a bunch of deals with with my dad you know so it's nice if you want to do the first one with without them.

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17 Mississippi that that was is is big moment.

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You know, for a lot of reasons.

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I remember when I was a kid I was playing basketball, you know, I was okay for that whole player, and, you know, I never like. I never started off the game really really nervous, so I cared about winning I was afraid to lose.

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And, you know, tip off we have first few possessions I get a more comfortable but till I saw one go through the net. I was never really comfortable once once once I got one, you know, once I got a bucket and it was okay.

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I was playing right, and then the game started to feel natural, you know, I think, I think with legacy wanted to see one get through the net and the 10th Mississippi the one time coming, you know, and it got through the net a large part you know, because we brought the right team

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together and there was an owner proprietor it's just me.

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He brought a national partnership foundation and incredible steep green mentor to me and so we would really really admire.

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You know he's awesome team around him, doesn't him prior.

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He just, you know, gave me a lot of like just like you know I steal things from my friends or steal things from employees or steal things from partners, you know, and, and I stole it a lot of good habits from from Tim, you know, and, you know, again I mean it's great to get the monkey off your

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back.

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It's rare you get a chance to be this introspective you know you get it. Yeah, people want to invite you to dinner party.

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Gotcha. Gotcha. I know you talked about expanding to Boston Miami in Cali as well like what's an attractive market for for legacy. What do you guys look for. We're super opportunistic.

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You know and it's places we like to work, you know places where we have like authentic connection to the community places where we understand the affordable out landscape.

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You know, you know, we speak some transparency and the allocation of gap resources and a systematized process to how to get those gap resources allocated to our particular project.

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You know and I like Miami because it's, you know, a place that I essentially grew up. I know, I know block by block I know it exceptionally well.

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I have a long track record here in the same way that I have a long track record in Washington DC that I know it well that I've lived there. Right.

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You know so I think it's familiarity is a big part of it, your real estate local business and the further away you are from the dirt.

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The worst, the worst you are at it right if you know your market block by block building by building.

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You're going to be much more tuned to the opportunities and, you know, somebody who who doesn't consider themselves local who doesn't have boots on the ground.

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And so I really like being, you know, really intimately familiar with the markets that we identified and making sure that before we allocate meaningful resources either, you know, cash or staff time that we do a fair amount of work understanding exactly

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what we're getting into and exactly what the process will entail.

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Last question about kind of want to reframe it into the affordable world with the rising interest rates that you get hit with some of your deals in your pipeline and all of a sudden you find yourself with gaps that you weren't expecting to get, you know, just stuff and how to handle that.

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Yeah, I mean, you know, it was raining and I was outside. I also got wet.

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I was like, everybody.

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I mean, I just expect the most rapid interest rate increase in modern history to occur.

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And that that pose some challenges, but what I'll say right is that every deal that we've got.

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We've got to do the large part to navigate those challenges, you know, in the markets that we're in.

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You know, we've worked with our municipal partners to solve for gaps. And did that mean that we take a little bit of pain and they take a little bit of pain and don't walk in there kind of with the idea like hey, you know, I'm gonna make the same amount of money or more.

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And it's a hey, you know, the world moved against us. Right. Let's find a way as partners to navigate through this process and make sure that everybody's, you know, coming out of here, a little unhappy but not so unhappy.

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You know, I think that's what good compromise is right. It's making sure everybody's a little upset that you find yourself looking at HUD or foreign investments or anything like that.

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You know, no, not necessarily been lucky enough to integrate new municipal resources right DC DC light tech which is super helpful.

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You know, it's been able to work with, with private placement. JPMorgan's been, you know, really really awesome to work with closing deal with them shortly so you know big fan of that group over there and, you know, I think when it's nice.

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When it's nice when you have recurrent partnerships, because you're doing a lot to keep each other's business, you know, and in the expediency, I think, you know, more than makes up for the incremental pricing decrease to the extent that you're not creating a super

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competitive environment.

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Right. I like working with partners that are easy to work with and that are good to work with that are honest straightforward and communicative. And once you find those, you know, frankly I'm willing to pay a premium to keep them.

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It's an interesting point I know a lot of our questions we get from our audiences, how do you scale a business and most of those guys, because they don't have the balance sheet they have to do JV that's that's how they scale their business balance

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and it's never been a problem for you guys. How do you plan on scaling, scaling up your business and what your scaled up model look like. Yeah, you know I think partnerships are a big part of it frankly right I think that, you know, you're, you're offloading

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risk and responsibility, it gives you an opportunity to bring in someone who's more familiar with the market, more familiar with the nuances and idiosyncrasies the subsidy allocation process.

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You know our first deal we partner with National League Partnership Foundation. DC we have a deal is closing partners with with manna and cast on real estate partners out of New York.

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You know and I next deal partners in DC with five beta sigma the historical black fraternity.

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The, you know, the goal is, is always I think for me to have meaningful strategic relationships that can help shore up the project and make sure that we have the appropriate resources attention, you know expertise to get it over the finish line.

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Miami we're doing a deal partnering with urban American and New York City based group are going to bring down there.

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You know the goal is right there's an overused old African proverb that says you know, you want to go fast go alone if you want to go far go together, and it's overused because true.

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My intention right is, you know, is to go far.

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And so I believe in the power of strategic partnerships, I think, more to the point.

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I think that any group, and you can look at the biggest developers in the world are related to him, or nato's.

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They've got strategic programmatic relationships with people who grow with them are the people that are appropriate to their skill. And it's good enough for those guys and certainly good enough for me.

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Exactly. What I do try to stress to these guys in the affordable world, you know you generally talking developer fees the profit margin, not a lot of help, a lot of cash flow rolling around.

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So, you got to scale, you know, to make that where you got to compile those developer fees.

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Yeah, yeah, and then it becomes a project management exercise, you know, I think the way you make a lot of money in affordable housing is vertically integrate, or you move into mixed income out.

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I think that, you know, it's really hard to, you don't see big affordable developers that just remain developers.

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You got to make sure that that you can sort of compete either to every vertical aspect of the real estate project, or broaden the asset classes that you're familiar with and I think legacy has got a great advantage there because, you know, I worked on

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every asset class. And to the extent that, you know, we need to bring our affordable expertise and sort of our niche expertise in affordable housing to a broader project where we're spreading risk across you know variety of different execution strategies.

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And we're well positioned to do that. And I think that differentiates us from, you know, all of our competitors are certainly nearly all of our competitors of a similar scale, and going to be something that's been a noise to our benefit over the next couple of markets

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like CS grow, and you see the curve you will be able to undertake.

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What do you envision legacy to be in the next five years or so five years it's 2028 into 2028.

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We're going to be talking about some of the more active family developers, you know, in Miami and DC in Boston, and I think you have standard five years isn't a long enough time to deliver tons and tons of building.

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But I think you hear about us a little bit now.

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I can be hearing a lot about us going forward.

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It's hard right like so much of what we do is uncertain. Right. And so, like, like I know the direction that we want to head. Right.

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I know we want to grow. I know we're looking to expand.

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Not only sort of horizontally and other asset classes that's vertically, you know, and take on more of the real estate services beyond development. Right.

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And so, you know, we're going to be able to get there and when we take each incremental step is in large part contingent upon the opportunities available to us, where we're able to navigate and be successful we are competitive advantages to any given time.

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I think that it was what's really hard right is, you know, you got to think about with chess, you know, you got a plan, and you got tactics. Right. And you always got to think about your plan but you know, you got to be cognizant of your tactics to take advantage of opportunities

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right and and you receive an advantage you then have to change your plan right or your plan adapts based on the new position.

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And so I, I try to treat managing the growth of the business, a lot like a game of chess, you know, you want to be fundamentally sound, you want to have a good plan.

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Right.

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You know, for lack of a better word whenever your pieces on the squares and you want to take advantage of tactics as they come about.

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Right. And that's how we're thinking about it so we know where we want to go, how we get there.

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You know, without without sounding cheeky we're going to get there the best possible way.

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Gotcha. For our emerging developers, we always emphasize the role of relationships. Do you have any tips that have worked well for you as it relates to managing relationships.

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Yeah, yeah, you know, I think right like like my situation is a little different than a lot of emerging developers like caveat the answer by saying that, you know, I got a really great last name I got a good first name, you know, if I call and I leave a message and I usually just say don people

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get it all back. You know, they'll be a little surprised when I pick up the phone, you know, they won't know what to say until I clarify but, you know, it's, I think maintaining relationships to, you know, is more the harder part, right.

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Because there's a line. Yeah, you want to make sure that you have natural touch points to people. Right, but you don't want to come across as an authentic. And so, you know, I think that the right way to do it is, is the way you treat you know, almost anybody

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else right be friendly. Treat everybody with respect, be outgoing. Right, but there's no need to, you know, and there's some people who do this and maybe it probably works for them and just never felt natural to me but like have monthly check ins, you know, or set reminders,

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they don't do any of that you know I think, you know, when I have interactions get my whole interaction. Right. And when it's appropriate we'll talk again and you know, if a more intimate like closer relationship builds.

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That's amazing if it doesn't, you know, are always going to be friendly we're always going to be cordial we're always going to be in a position where you know that I'm honest with you, and then we can navigate difficult circumstances together, right, which is what you want in a partner

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because real estate deals take a long time and she goes wrong. So the most important skill set, I use two important skill sets right the first one is distress tolerant is how okay can you be when it's not okay.

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Right, because you've got to sit with prolonged series like prolonged instances of discomfort, without like a clear remedy and you got to, you got to kind of wait it out.

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And that's not easy for a lot of people a lot of people get into that situation they responded pulsively that you know things that maybe aren't in their long term best interest, I think, I think the second piece, right.

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So you got to work with people who you can trust right. And that's not trust not to lie to you right. It's also, you know, trust and navigate difficult circumstances collaborative things go wrong, right, people lose money.

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And so how you, how you navigate the things that aren't going great is, in my opinion, the better barometer to value or that you should use to value your, your relationships, whether they be professional or personal.

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I tell my buddies this shit all the time right like it's really easy to fall in love in the south of France, you know, if you go to south of France and you fall in love and then you go to the multi coast and fall deeper in love.

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And you know who knows you're seeing an Aspen and you want to marry or like, I think about that one. Right.

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Because it's easy to get along when she's going well, right. But how you get along with she's not knowing well is is a much better indicator for whether or not that's a meaningful and important, you know, personal or professional relationship.

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And for folks in DC, that are, you know, kind of green I always stare into like a rat, you know, great organization. We have one in Philly now, you know, just to kind of go in there and there's a variety of people that you can meet whether it's brokers architects engineers

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I mean, everybody's there. And, um, yeah, I love a rep.

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And, you know, funny I got a great era of story my dad was supposed to give a speech at a rep like two years ago and he got delayed at the airport. And I had to stand in for one of y'all were there for that great job man.

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Yeah, that was a while ago.

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I always think man I always think I don't get worried about public speaking anymore because there's just no way I could ever be less prepared talking to a more important group of people with no notice like that's as hard as it could be like what else are they

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going to do, but yeah, long time ago but a rep is awesome I love a rep DC. There's like a young real estate council that's really good.

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That's fun. My buddy Marcus, like chairman of that. Another great guy right talk about iron sharp and iron Marcus is awesome, you know, very intentional about how he does things great connector people.

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But that's a good one.

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You know, and obviously you ally right if you're very smart you should join the live you're not so smart.

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Yeah, that's like the hybrid at the Harvard of real estate professional clubs, and then DC BIA I like their Gallup, I do it was an anthem not too long ago. Top tier Gala, very, very well done.

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Yeah, so I've seen you at Reese a lot of Reese conferences, I got a Reese backpack I like Reese. Right. They don't invite me to speak at Reese as much as I want, you know, they said Don you got to accomplish more shit first.

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I'm so hard. Yeah, I can, I can, you know, I can do better.

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And then Reese can can give me more prominent, but I'm a big fan. I know you talked about the professional organization but how do you invest in your professional development, you know, just to stay on top of your game.

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That's a great question. Right. I lead on mentors a lot for that, you know.

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So guys like Steve Green I mentioned obviously my father, you know, but there are a number of guys who've been really really successful in the space that I have a lot of access to.

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And, you know, I love kind of talking through they look at problems and how they evaluate risk.

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I think that the other big part of that is after action reports. So I really like that right is is after a decision is made of an outcome is sort of resolved.

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Right and a lot of times in real estate that's actually a long period of time. Right. I like to unpack the decision right. What did I know at the time right and why did I make the decision that I made at that time.

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What do I know now. Would I have made the same decision. And do I think would have led to a different outcome. Right. I think that sort of formalizing that thought process that you're constantly critically evaluating why you've done things and how they've worked out.

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I think is is a really really big part of it. You know the other thing is repeated exposure. Right. They're all things that we don't like to do. And in large part we don't like to do them because we're bad at them and it's a self self prophecy.

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Right. Like I'm a really shitty golfer. So I don't like to golf. So I don't golf. So I'm a really shitty golfer. That's actually true. You know but you know it's also it's a fact for you know anything or any sort of individual skill set in real estate.

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Right. Like if you're not if I'm not a good public speaker I will seek out opportunities to public speak and if we're not if I don't get practice I'll remain a shitty public speaker.

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And so I think when when you're when you struggle with something right. It's like it's a sign that says you should keep doing this right. You should actively seek out circumstances where you're uncomfortable because they will stop being circumstances where you're

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uncomfortable. And that's easier said than done. We all want things to be safe easy and happening on yachts in the Mediterranean. But that's that's unfortunately not where a meaningful life is built.

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So I think we should get those folks. That's awesome. Last question for you. Do you think the heat will sign Dame or are you looking to dabble with that. Look honestly, you know I got the blessing of being close to a fucking top tier organization.

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You know you think about the Patriots maybe the Spurs and Papa bitches heyday but this full straw Riley heat are you know the top I mean are top tier company right there fortune five company in professional sports full stop.

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So I think that you know organizations going to make the right decision.

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And you know for our long term best interest continue to develop undrafted talent. And I mean look like I live across the street from the arena so we have Damien.

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I will be at every home.

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Mickey Harris if you're thinking about the long term best interest of the heat or carnival cruise lines or whatever you have, know that I will spend way more money if we sign him and I promise luxury taxes it was a small thing to a giant.

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Yeah, you know, this whole thing. It's no change $20 million to you.

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Butler will be a problem for some folks I can tell you that man Jimmy Butler, Jimmy Butler wins basketball games right just on sheer force of will, like it's just wild to watch I'm just like you were, you just try harder than everybody else, you know, Jimmy.

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Anyway, but daddy this has been a lot of fun man we're going to wrap up, they really appreciate you coming through stopping at the real estate shop spending some time.

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I appreciate it.

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All right, man. Good luck.