WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.360
Maybe this is me, but I have yet to buy in or

00:00:04.360 --> 00:00:09.119
become particularly enamored with any sort of

00:00:09.119 --> 00:00:13.179
red dot on a handgun. I don't know why. Okay,

00:00:13.300 --> 00:00:15.660
but yeah, you do know why. You have thoughts

00:00:15.660 --> 00:00:59.500
of why. I have thoughts of why. Okay. Welcome

00:00:59.500 --> 00:01:02.500
to Episode 2, that's right, Episode 2 of the

00:01:02.500 --> 00:01:05.400
Frugal Firearms Podcast. The podcast designed

00:01:05.400 --> 00:01:07.840
to help you get the most out of your shooting

00:01:07.840 --> 00:01:11.319
dollar. I'm here with my co -host Ken. Ken, say

00:01:11.319 --> 00:01:13.439
hello to our listeners. Hello listeners, I appreciate

00:01:13.439 --> 00:01:15.840
you guys tuning in to listen to us today. Ken,

00:01:15.959 --> 00:01:17.920
what are we doing here? Why are we here? Why

00:01:17.920 --> 00:01:20.400
are we spending our Sunday recording something

00:01:20.400 --> 00:01:22.599
when we could be, you know, doing something else?

00:01:22.840 --> 00:01:25.730
Spending is the operative term there. i mean

00:01:25.730 --> 00:01:28.030
this is frugal firearms and what we want to get

00:01:28.030 --> 00:01:30.269
is we'd like to get value for the dollars that

00:01:30.269 --> 00:01:34.090
we spend so we're here to talk about some of

00:01:34.090 --> 00:01:36.170
the things that we consider to be high value

00:01:36.170 --> 00:01:39.879
items exactly Yeah, and if you dear listeners

00:01:39.879 --> 00:01:43.099
haven't checked out our first two episodes, episode

00:01:43.099 --> 00:01:47.519
one and episode zero, the collector's edition,

00:01:47.719 --> 00:01:50.079
that was actually a beta that we decided came

00:01:50.079 --> 00:01:52.980
out pretty good. So we posted it to all the different

00:01:52.980 --> 00:01:56.480
podcast aggregators. What we want to do here

00:01:56.480 --> 00:01:59.219
is we want to highlight the idea that you can

00:01:59.219 --> 00:02:01.680
get more for your dollar if you listen to our

00:02:01.680 --> 00:02:04.920
advice. And if you don't like our advice, you

00:02:04.920 --> 00:02:08.069
can contact us at frugalfire, firearms podcast

00:02:08.069 --> 00:02:12.370
that's firearms plural so frugal firearms podcast

00:02:12.370 --> 00:02:16.310
at gmail .com and we also hope that you will

00:02:16.310 --> 00:02:20.050
like and subscribe on the various podcast distribution

00:02:20.050 --> 00:02:23.430
networks according to which one you prefer because

00:02:23.430 --> 00:02:25.689
that helps more and more people see the show

00:02:25.689 --> 00:02:28.889
and that'll help us sustain the show absolutely

00:02:28.889 --> 00:02:31.629
so what are we going to talk about today oh i

00:02:31.629 --> 00:02:33.129
guess what the first thing that i do is talk

00:02:33.129 --> 00:02:36.419
about our disclaimer right so I'm not a lawyer.

00:02:36.479 --> 00:02:39.240
I don't play one on TV. Are you a lawyer? Do

00:02:39.240 --> 00:02:42.000
you play one on TV? I'm an engineer, and you're

00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:45.240
an IT engineer. Software engineer. Yeah, well,

00:02:45.319 --> 00:02:49.479
no. So if you listeners think that what we're

00:02:49.479 --> 00:02:52.879
talking about is legally sustainable advice.

00:02:53.639 --> 00:02:58.439
No. You're wrong. And if you need legal advice,

00:02:58.520 --> 00:03:01.240
either concerning the legality of products that

00:03:01.240 --> 00:03:03.759
we talk about in your area, or our perspectives

00:03:03.759 --> 00:03:07.219
on self -defense, or any other topic that we

00:03:07.219 --> 00:03:09.780
might meander into, because this is a pretty

00:03:09.780 --> 00:03:12.659
free -form show. Yep. Yeah, vet that with your

00:03:12.659 --> 00:03:15.509
local lawyer. And by the way, I do mean local

00:03:15.509 --> 00:03:18.090
lawyer. And why would I say that? I would say

00:03:18.090 --> 00:03:20.710
that because different municipalities have different

00:03:20.710 --> 00:03:23.430
local rules. And what may not get you in trouble

00:03:23.430 --> 00:03:25.250
at the state level might get you in trouble at

00:03:25.250 --> 00:03:27.110
a different level. Absolutely. There's local,

00:03:27.169 --> 00:03:30.280
state, federal. And international. I mean, we're

00:03:30.280 --> 00:03:32.439
close to the Mexican border down here. Yes, we

00:03:32.439 --> 00:03:36.259
are. We would never cross the international border

00:03:36.259 --> 00:03:39.680
with any firearm or firearm -related item. You

00:03:39.680 --> 00:03:41.560
know, that's an interesting thing. You know,

00:03:41.560 --> 00:03:45.360
in Mexico, I have a friend who does have a property

00:03:45.360 --> 00:03:49.000
in Mexico as an American, and he does have approval

00:03:49.000 --> 00:03:53.620
to have a weapon in Mexico. Mexico has in their

00:03:53.620 --> 00:03:57.849
constitution the right to own firearms. The way

00:03:57.849 --> 00:04:00.550
they manage the problem to keep people from owning

00:04:00.550 --> 00:04:02.750
firearms, I mean, people who are not drug cartel

00:04:02.750 --> 00:04:04.409
people, let's just get that out of the way. They

00:04:04.409 --> 00:04:05.550
get anything they want. Yeah, they get whatever

00:04:05.550 --> 00:04:07.610
they want. And some of it's shipped in from the

00:04:07.610 --> 00:04:10.569
United States with government support. Thank

00:04:10.569 --> 00:04:15.370
you, Eric Holder. They have one gun store in

00:04:15.370 --> 00:04:19.029
the country, and it's in Mexico City. So if you

00:04:19.029 --> 00:04:21.230
want a gun, yep, you have the right to go buy

00:04:21.230 --> 00:04:23.829
a gun, and you have to get yourself to Mexico

00:04:23.829 --> 00:04:27.779
City to do it. Amazing. Yeah. A city of 9 million

00:04:27.779 --> 00:04:30.000
people, you're going to go down there, and you've

00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:31.620
got to travel there from all over. The country

00:04:31.620 --> 00:04:33.800
is huge. It's a huge country. I mean, it's not

00:04:33.800 --> 00:04:35.639
as big as the U .S., but... It's still, yeah,

00:04:35.800 --> 00:04:37.959
it covers some distance. It's an actual piece

00:04:37.959 --> 00:04:42.060
of property, absolutely. And you are not allowed

00:04:42.060 --> 00:04:46.000
to own a firearm that has a military caliber.

00:04:46.480 --> 00:04:49.560
Right. So, but again, unless you're in the drug

00:04:49.560 --> 00:04:52.000
cartels, and they kind of have a privilege they

00:04:52.000 --> 00:04:54.360
want. Right, okay. You have to finish that out.

00:04:54.949 --> 00:04:58.069
Seek the appropriate legal advice if you need

00:04:58.069 --> 00:05:00.709
it, folks, because this show is about our opinions

00:05:00.709 --> 00:05:04.029
and our opinions only and no one else's. So I

00:05:04.029 --> 00:05:08.110
wanted to thank the people who have early adopted

00:05:08.110 --> 00:05:11.709
us and who have already subscribed and listened.

00:05:11.829 --> 00:05:14.149
I'm able to look at the analytics on that, and

00:05:14.149 --> 00:05:15.930
I thought it was interesting when I started looking

00:05:15.930 --> 00:05:18.410
at the heat map of who's been listening and the

00:05:18.410 --> 00:05:21.370
age groups and genders and so on. The thing that

00:05:21.370 --> 00:05:24.649
struck me was this. Big dot, right in South Central

00:05:24.649 --> 00:05:28.029
Kansas. And I thought, why are there so many

00:05:28.029 --> 00:05:31.250
people in South Central Kansas tuning into the

00:05:31.250 --> 00:05:33.350
show? The heartland of America. So I zoomed in

00:05:33.350 --> 00:05:35.769
on it, and it's in the middle of a reservoir.

00:05:36.069 --> 00:05:38.189
They live on a houseboat. Yeah, all of them,

00:05:38.209 --> 00:05:41.870
right. They're right in the middle of the Cheney

00:05:41.870 --> 00:05:44.550
Reservoir. And I thought, okay, something's wrong

00:05:44.550 --> 00:05:46.490
here. And it turns out that that's the geographic

00:05:46.490 --> 00:05:49.069
center of the country. And this is for people

00:05:49.069 --> 00:05:51.800
who listen to the show and... didn't put their

00:05:51.800 --> 00:05:56.180
city in. That's fine. But all you people listening

00:05:56.180 --> 00:05:59.839
on the houseboat in Cheney Reservoir, thank you,

00:05:59.860 --> 00:06:04.360
thank you. So I realized that in listening and

00:06:04.360 --> 00:06:07.879
editing the last two shows that I didn't exactly

00:06:07.879 --> 00:06:10.480
keep to my word. I said that we were going to

00:06:10.480 --> 00:06:13.839
cover some topics that we didn't because this

00:06:13.839 --> 00:06:16.819
is a free -form show and in the 45 minutes to

00:06:16.819 --> 00:06:19.490
an hour we're talking. Lots of rabbit holes to

00:06:19.490 --> 00:06:23.170
go down. Yeah, we just forgot. So let's kind

00:06:23.170 --> 00:06:26.709
of catch up on that. I mentioned that I was going

00:06:26.709 --> 00:06:30.129
to talk about ammunition pricing. Yeah. a good

00:06:30.129 --> 00:06:33.410
website for that. And there are several. I think

00:06:33.410 --> 00:06:36.209
there's one called Ammo .com. There's a few others,

00:06:36.310 --> 00:06:38.670
but my favorite one that I would recommend to

00:06:38.670 --> 00:06:43.129
listeners is AmmoSeek .com. AmmoSeek is good

00:06:43.129 --> 00:06:46.370
because you can dial in exactly what you want

00:06:46.370 --> 00:06:50.610
in terms of not just caliber, but grains, how

00:06:50.610 --> 00:06:52.810
much shipping you want to pay, and perhaps you

00:06:52.810 --> 00:06:55.790
don't want to pay any shipping, whether it has

00:06:55.790 --> 00:06:58.550
brass or steel cases, and you can get very, very

00:06:58.550 --> 00:07:01.149
particular. and then find the best pricing on

00:07:01.149 --> 00:07:04.610
ammunition. So for anybody who can have ammunition

00:07:04.610 --> 00:07:07.529
shipped directly to them, which I think is most

00:07:07.529 --> 00:07:09.750
of the country right now. But not the People's

00:07:09.750 --> 00:07:12.509
Republic of California? Not here, no. Here on

00:07:12.509 --> 00:07:15.610
the left coast? Nope, not here. But here what

00:07:15.610 --> 00:07:18.850
you can do. Here you can use a firearms dealer

00:07:18.850 --> 00:07:21.730
who also has a California ammunition license,

00:07:21.870 --> 00:07:24.430
which is, by the way, a separate thing. But if

00:07:24.430 --> 00:07:26.610
they have a California ammunition resales license,

00:07:26.810 --> 00:07:29.800
they can... receive the shipment for you. You're

00:07:29.800 --> 00:07:31.740
going to have to obviously pay them for their

00:07:31.740 --> 00:07:35.040
trouble and legitimately for their time to do

00:07:35.040 --> 00:07:38.120
that. But you can still get ammunition at a much

00:07:38.120 --> 00:07:40.360
lower cost than probably going down to, you know,

00:07:40.360 --> 00:07:44.180
whatever other limited source you have. I'm so

00:07:44.180 --> 00:07:47.459
looking forward to the Bruin decisions in the

00:07:47.459 --> 00:07:50.300
Supreme Court and the Heller decision striking

00:07:50.300 --> 00:07:53.920
down so much of this and getting back to freedom.

00:07:54.019 --> 00:07:56.519
We used to have it here in this country. You

00:07:56.519 --> 00:07:58.600
used to have it here in the state. Yeah, we did.

00:07:58.740 --> 00:08:01.980
We did. Well, you know, I had that conversation

00:08:01.980 --> 00:08:04.060
with someone else this morning, too, on a slightly

00:08:04.060 --> 00:08:06.360
different subject about whether or not it's better

00:08:06.360 --> 00:08:11.360
to avoid being involved in organizations or in

00:08:11.360 --> 00:08:14.879
areas where you're losing or whether it's better

00:08:14.879 --> 00:08:17.319
to stay and fight and basically get in behind

00:08:17.319 --> 00:08:21.459
enemy lines. And, you know, I respect both perspectives

00:08:21.459 --> 00:08:25.569
on that. So ammo -seek .com is a great place

00:08:25.569 --> 00:08:29.610
to go look to find ammunition at a lower cost

00:08:29.610 --> 00:08:31.750
or look for calibers that maybe you don't have

00:08:31.750 --> 00:08:34.049
available locally. And that's an opportunity

00:08:34.049 --> 00:08:37.450
that you'll want to take if you use a lot of

00:08:37.450 --> 00:08:40.350
ammunition, you buy it in bulk, you can save

00:08:40.350 --> 00:08:42.110
a lot of money that way. Someday we're going

00:08:42.110 --> 00:08:45.129
to have to talk about reloading because reloading

00:08:45.129 --> 00:08:48.350
is one of the things that I do and I enjoy. And

00:08:48.350 --> 00:08:53.309
the fact that you can save... 50 cents or 50

00:08:53.309 --> 00:08:57.389
% to maybe two thirds on the cost of ammunition,

00:08:57.429 --> 00:09:00.710
most ammunitions. And the other advantage is

00:09:00.710 --> 00:09:03.529
the fact that you can load up a very specific

00:09:04.159 --> 00:09:06.600
uh bullet weight with a very specific amount

00:09:06.600 --> 00:09:09.779
of powder that's flat out not available commercially

00:09:09.779 --> 00:09:13.639
anywhere so but to do that and do it well you

00:09:13.639 --> 00:09:15.820
really gotta get into it with the chronograph

00:09:15.820 --> 00:09:19.159
and range time and and every rifle even if you

00:09:19.159 --> 00:09:21.320
have two identical rifles they behave differently

00:09:21.320 --> 00:09:24.100
due to the barrels and all sorts of things but

00:09:24.100 --> 00:09:28.120
it's a really fun thing to do Yeah, and that's

00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:30.899
part of the value of the activity. Remember,

00:09:31.100 --> 00:09:33.899
this is the Frugal Firearms podcast, and the

00:09:33.899 --> 00:09:37.039
focus is on value. But there's a construct of

00:09:37.039 --> 00:09:39.659
value that is, what's the entertainment value,

00:09:39.779 --> 00:09:41.919
not just the monetary value? Absolutely. And

00:09:41.919 --> 00:09:44.340
the satisfaction that you get from doing something

00:09:44.340 --> 00:09:47.899
on your own that maybe you did better than you

00:09:47.899 --> 00:09:51.840
could go buy in the store. Yep. So I agree. That's

00:09:51.840 --> 00:09:54.039
going to be something that probably you'll leave

00:09:54.039 --> 00:09:55.759
the topic on that, Ken, because you have experience

00:09:55.759 --> 00:09:58.220
in that area and I don't. But when we get to

00:09:58.220 --> 00:10:00.600
that point, that is something definitely worth

00:10:00.600 --> 00:10:04.419
covering. The other thing, major faux pas on

00:10:04.419 --> 00:10:08.340
my part, was not covering the value ratings because

00:10:08.340 --> 00:10:09.960
we said that we're going to give value ratings

00:10:09.960 --> 00:10:13.679
to the various things that we review on the show.

00:10:14.549 --> 00:10:17.350
And then we just ran right away from that and

00:10:17.350 --> 00:10:18.730
didn't do any of it. So we're going to catch

00:10:18.730 --> 00:10:21.690
up a little bit. And hopefully, you know, if

00:10:21.690 --> 00:10:24.950
we fail to do that in the future, readers or

00:10:24.950 --> 00:10:28.210
listeners out there will remind us of that and

00:10:28.210 --> 00:10:30.190
get us back on track. So how are we going to

00:10:30.190 --> 00:10:31.990
do that? Are we going to do a Likert scale? You

00:10:31.990 --> 00:10:33.590
know, that's one of those famous fun words. Well,

00:10:33.669 --> 00:10:36.070
we said it was a 1 to 10 scale. Okay, a 1 to

00:10:36.070 --> 00:10:38.669
10 scale. 1 to 10 scale. And the 1 to 10 scale

00:10:38.669 --> 00:10:43.110
is what? The 1 to 10 scale is not just the quality

00:10:43.110 --> 00:10:45.940
of the thing. It's the value proposition of the

00:10:45.940 --> 00:10:48.519
thing. All right. So a very inexpensive thing

00:10:48.519 --> 00:10:51.820
might rate highly. Absolutely. And the best in

00:10:51.820 --> 00:10:55.379
class. might actually rate poorly sure so a one

00:10:55.379 --> 00:10:58.419
a one uh star or one i wouldn't call it a star

00:10:58.419 --> 00:11:01.720
but that would be a not so great and then all

00:11:01.720 --> 00:11:03.639
the way up to 10 which would be considered to

00:11:03.639 --> 00:11:06.600
be an excellent value exactly and i'm going to

00:11:06.600 --> 00:11:08.379
start off with one of the first things that i

00:11:08.379 --> 00:11:12.980
reviewed which was the athalon talus btr low

00:11:12.980 --> 00:11:16.320
power variable optic which is a one to four and

00:11:16.320 --> 00:11:20.679
i made a great case out of why I think that's

00:11:20.679 --> 00:11:24.580
an excellent value, the fact that the visual

00:11:24.580 --> 00:11:27.840
field is very, very flat, which to me as a photographer

00:11:27.840 --> 00:11:30.879
is a very important thing, and then completely

00:11:30.879 --> 00:11:34.100
forgot about giving it a rating. Is it an illuminated

00:11:34.100 --> 00:11:36.759
reticle? It is an illuminated reticle, and the

00:11:36.759 --> 00:11:38.600
way they did the illumination, I actually like,

00:11:38.600 --> 00:11:40.620
too, a little better than other reticles. Sometimes

00:11:40.620 --> 00:11:44.019
you only have essentially a very small dot, or

00:11:44.019 --> 00:11:47.179
you have the entire area illuminated. I actually

00:11:47.179 --> 00:11:49.340
kind of prefer a hybrid approach to that. But

00:11:49.340 --> 00:11:52.500
the amount of, the range of light that you can

00:11:52.500 --> 00:11:55.320
get out of it, I think it's, to me, it's spot

00:11:55.320 --> 00:11:57.019
on. Right, because a lot of people would question,

00:11:57.120 --> 00:12:00.919
why do you want a one -power scope? Well, you

00:12:00.919 --> 00:12:03.320
know the reason I like a one power scope, and

00:12:03.320 --> 00:12:05.480
it is pretty darn close to, if you ever hear

00:12:05.480 --> 00:12:07.759
one power scope, you kind of put quotes around

00:12:07.759 --> 00:12:10.419
that because a one power scope is not, it's sometimes

00:12:10.419 --> 00:12:15.220
like 0 .9 or 1 .1. It's close enough. The reason

00:12:15.220 --> 00:12:18.080
that I think a one power scope is good is if

00:12:18.080 --> 00:12:20.840
your distance vision isn't perfect. Yeah. Because

00:12:20.840 --> 00:12:26.799
you can then adapt the scope to account for your

00:12:26.799 --> 00:12:30.759
less than perfect vision. My right eye is 20

00:12:30.759 --> 00:12:34.460
-15. So I have really good distance vision in

00:12:34.460 --> 00:12:36.460
my right eye. My left eye is not quite as good.

00:12:36.700 --> 00:12:39.379
And I'm right -eyed. I'm right -eyed dominant.

00:12:39.580 --> 00:12:43.120
As am I. But the fact is that I can still get

00:12:43.120 --> 00:12:45.820
a much better view through a prism scope or through

00:12:45.820 --> 00:12:48.580
a traditional glass scope, even at one power.

00:12:48.960 --> 00:12:53.620
So it also helps literally narrow your... Not

00:12:53.620 --> 00:12:56.000
that you want a wide field of view, but it does

00:12:56.000 --> 00:12:58.659
tend to... Focus you, put quotes around focus.

00:12:58.740 --> 00:13:01.379
It focuses your attention, exactly. And that's

00:13:01.379 --> 00:13:04.460
why it's of value. And at the ranges I shoot,

00:13:04.600 --> 00:13:07.480
I don't really need more than four power. We're

00:13:07.480 --> 00:13:09.740
going to cover a scope in a future show, which

00:13:09.740 --> 00:13:12.899
is going to be a three to 15 power that, well,

00:13:12.980 --> 00:13:14.580
it just isn't available in less than three to

00:13:14.580 --> 00:13:17.379
15 power. But for its purpose, I think it still

00:13:17.379 --> 00:13:20.419
fits the bill of being a value proposition. But

00:13:20.419 --> 00:13:24.039
the nice thing about the Talos, even though it

00:13:24.039 --> 00:13:26.639
is... essentially the bottom of the of the athlon

00:13:26.639 --> 00:13:28.980
line it's you remember it's not just about the

00:13:28.980 --> 00:13:30.580
product it's about the company behind the product

00:13:30.580 --> 00:13:33.320
and i managed to break one i managed to knock

00:13:33.320 --> 00:13:35.980
the reticle loose out of the scope inside the

00:13:35.980 --> 00:13:38.200
interior inside the scope and right so it's not

00:13:38.200 --> 00:13:39.740
something you just tighten from the outside right

00:13:39.740 --> 00:13:42.360
yeah disassemble it and that's optical quality

00:13:42.360 --> 00:13:45.720
and you yeah it wasn't i i wouldn't say that

00:13:45.720 --> 00:13:49.700
it was a super hard hit i it it also wasn't Gross

00:13:49.700 --> 00:13:51.559
negligence. I didn't drop the thing out of a

00:13:51.559 --> 00:13:53.340
helicopter. I didn't run over it with a truck.

00:13:53.419 --> 00:13:58.039
But the reticle came loose and needed to be replaced.

00:13:58.159 --> 00:14:00.559
I sent it in to them, and in no time at all,

00:14:00.580 --> 00:14:02.679
they had a new one back to me. That's excellent

00:14:02.679 --> 00:14:05.379
customer service. And even on a budget scope.

00:14:05.639 --> 00:14:09.220
So they probably lost money on the entire deal

00:14:09.220 --> 00:14:11.399
because there's probably not enough profit margin.

00:14:11.659 --> 00:14:14.559
No. But they still covered the product and honored

00:14:14.559 --> 00:14:16.960
the warranty. Reputation means something to them,

00:14:16.980 --> 00:14:20.049
and that's excellent. So I'm giving that scope

00:14:20.049 --> 00:14:23.350
a 9. I'm giving that a solid 9. A 10, by the

00:14:23.350 --> 00:14:25.289
way, for me is going to be really hard to get.

00:14:25.570 --> 00:14:28.129
Okay, now we're going to talk about the also

00:14:28.129 --> 00:14:31.490
previously discussed Smith & Wesson Shield. Shield.

00:14:31.649 --> 00:14:34.649
What do we both own, Ken? We both own Shields.

00:14:34.830 --> 00:14:39.470
I actually... There's Gen 1 shields. The other

00:14:39.470 --> 00:14:41.690
interesting thing is they're not only Gen 1 shields,

00:14:41.950 --> 00:14:47.090
they are California edition Gen 1 shields. And

00:14:47.090 --> 00:14:50.110
one of the odd things about that is California

00:14:50.110 --> 00:14:54.860
requires a chamber flag indicator. Most of the

00:14:54.860 --> 00:14:57.120
shields that you'll see in the 49 other states

00:14:57.120 --> 00:14:59.519
or other parts of the country, they just have

00:14:59.519 --> 00:15:02.580
like a little peephole that's drilled right at

00:15:02.580 --> 00:15:06.100
the base of the cartridge as it's inside the

00:15:06.100 --> 00:15:08.419
chamber. And you can kind of look down in it,

00:15:08.480 --> 00:15:10.259
you see a little tiny peephole. If you see brass

00:15:10.259 --> 00:15:11.980
in there, then obviously you've got a round in

00:15:11.980 --> 00:15:15.320
there. California required a little pop -up flag.

00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:18.659
which pops up, and this little red flag sticks

00:15:18.659 --> 00:15:20.820
up. It's about three -quarters of an inch long,

00:15:21.019 --> 00:15:24.899
and it rotates up. Actually, it's one of the

00:15:24.899 --> 00:15:27.899
odd things that I actually like, and the reason

00:15:27.899 --> 00:15:30.840
why I like it is it's tactile, and I can feel

00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:34.360
it in complete, utter darkness. If I were to

00:15:34.360 --> 00:15:36.899
grab my shield in complete darkness, I wouldn't

00:15:36.899 --> 00:15:38.919
have to go, is it loaded or not? I mean, I can't

00:15:38.919 --> 00:15:40.580
see down. It's too dark. I can't see through

00:15:40.580 --> 00:15:43.259
the little peephole, but I can just feel across

00:15:43.259 --> 00:15:46.269
there, and if it's tactically up, then I know

00:15:46.269 --> 00:15:50.389
instantly that it's a loaded chamber. So would

00:15:50.389 --> 00:15:53.409
you say that the, now, knowing that both of us

00:15:53.409 --> 00:15:56.090
own 1 .0s, not 2 .0s, now 2 .0 is the standard

00:15:56.090 --> 00:15:58.850
one. I've seen the 2 .0. I think that the value

00:15:58.850 --> 00:16:01.269
proposition for the 2 .0 is about equal to the

00:16:01.269 --> 00:16:04.889
1 .0. I mean, I got mine for just, frankly, north

00:16:04.889 --> 00:16:08.309
of $200, and it was new. Yeah. Now they cost

00:16:08.309 --> 00:16:11.250
more, not surprising. Now, what would be the

00:16:11.250 --> 00:16:13.659
basis for... value proposition of a shield you'd

00:16:13.659 --> 00:16:15.179
have to compare it to other competitive things

00:16:15.179 --> 00:16:18.500
out there we do i i was incredibly impressed

00:16:18.500 --> 00:16:21.740
at its accuracy the first time i took out my

00:16:21.740 --> 00:16:25.299
shield i was firing just your winchester white

00:16:25.299 --> 00:16:29.039
box ball ammunition target ammunition 9 millimeter

00:16:29.039 --> 00:16:33.240
115 grain and i was this thing only has like

00:16:33.240 --> 00:16:35.659
a three inch barrel a little under three inches

00:16:35.659 --> 00:16:38.740
i think i'd have to look at the specs And I was

00:16:38.740 --> 00:16:43.159
basically firing at milk jugs full of water at

00:16:43.159 --> 00:16:47.840
a distance of about 75 to 80 yards and hitting

00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:51.820
them every single time with basically a concealed

00:16:51.820 --> 00:16:54.799
carry gun, which I was anticipating was going

00:16:54.799 --> 00:16:58.720
to have far less accuracy than it had. So from

00:16:58.720 --> 00:17:00.740
that perspective, I was extremely impressed.

00:17:01.159 --> 00:17:06.019
And my experience, and remember, listeners, I'm

00:17:06.019 --> 00:17:07.740
not the best shot out there. Actually, with my

00:17:07.740 --> 00:17:10.759
Glock, I am. You've had that forever. Yeah, with

00:17:10.759 --> 00:17:14.240
my Glock, I even surprise myself how good I am.

00:17:14.279 --> 00:17:17.359
And with my Shield, I'm less good. So I think

00:17:17.359 --> 00:17:20.759
that for me, the value proposition on the Shield

00:17:20.759 --> 00:17:25.160
is perhaps maybe a little less. Now, I did a

00:17:25.160 --> 00:17:27.940
comparison yesterday on Handgun Hero. Do you

00:17:27.940 --> 00:17:30.519
know what Handgun Hero is? Let's talk about it.

00:17:30.579 --> 00:17:33.859
Handgunhero .com is another recommended site.

00:17:33.940 --> 00:17:37.619
If you're interested in comparing visually in

00:17:37.619 --> 00:17:40.640
a very easy way by doing electronic overlays

00:17:40.640 --> 00:17:44.000
of the size of guns, you can compare any two

00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:47.099
guns you want and change the opacity of whatever

00:17:47.099 --> 00:17:49.759
gun you're looking at on top and make it disappear

00:17:49.759 --> 00:17:53.799
or become 100%. You can look at both sides and

00:17:53.799 --> 00:17:57.759
the back of the gun. And if size is a concern

00:17:57.759 --> 00:18:01.359
on your carry gun, it's the site to go to. But

00:18:01.359 --> 00:18:03.920
they also list prices. And I verified that against

00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:07.539
another recommended site, which is gun .deals,

00:18:07.640 --> 00:18:10.660
which I mentioned last time. And the Shield is

00:18:10.660 --> 00:18:13.940
running less, consistently less than, to me,

00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:18.059
what the best in class for me is the Glock 43.

00:18:18.519 --> 00:18:21.500
True. So to me, now, again, a lot of people might

00:18:21.500 --> 00:18:24.720
say, well, what about the Hellcat? Sure. Or,

00:18:24.759 --> 00:18:27.299
you know, what about the... Taurus makes some

00:18:27.299 --> 00:18:32.000
good 9mm... Or the Ruger offerings, or... I mean,

00:18:32.019 --> 00:18:35.119
the Hellcat is more expensive for certain. Probably

00:18:35.119 --> 00:18:38.119
because I'm a Glock guy, and I actually think

00:18:38.119 --> 00:18:40.420
the trigger on the... And this is going to horrify

00:18:40.420 --> 00:18:43.140
a lot of people. I think the Glock 43 trigger

00:18:43.140 --> 00:18:44.920
is actually very, very good. At least it's very,

00:18:45.019 --> 00:18:47.559
very good for a Glock. To me, that's the class

00:18:47.559 --> 00:18:50.079
leader. And looking at the street prices of that,

00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:52.700
you can save, I think, around $100 getting the

00:18:52.700 --> 00:18:58.160
shield. I believe so. And sadly, the 43, since

00:18:58.160 --> 00:19:00.440
we, again, live here on the left coast, here

00:19:00.440 --> 00:19:02.400
in the People's Republic of California, and we

00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:04.059
love to be goose -stepping with the governor.

00:19:05.039 --> 00:19:08.180
Is that 43 available here on the primary market

00:19:08.180 --> 00:19:10.940
here in the state of California? Not to me, it's

00:19:10.940 --> 00:19:12.900
not. No, it's not. Not to you either. It is to

00:19:12.900 --> 00:19:14.980
law enforcement. Of course, law enforcement.

00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:17.279
Right. And of course, they do come up on the

00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:20.440
secondary market, which is where a law enforcement...

00:19:20.970 --> 00:19:24.289
officer who purchases one of these things legally,

00:19:24.589 --> 00:19:26.789
fine. And they shoot it for a while and they

00:19:26.789 --> 00:19:28.710
decide that, you know what, they just don't like

00:19:28.710 --> 00:19:31.130
it that much. And then they end up selling it

00:19:31.130 --> 00:19:33.750
on the secondary market. And when they do, it's

00:19:33.750 --> 00:19:35.549
perfectly legal then to buy it on the secondary

00:19:35.549 --> 00:19:37.630
market. It's also perfectly legal to make it

00:19:37.630 --> 00:19:39.869
really, really, really, really expensive on the

00:19:39.869 --> 00:19:42.109
secondary market. Which is what they do. Yeah.

00:19:42.190 --> 00:19:44.470
They typically double to triple the price. So

00:19:44.470 --> 00:19:48.150
say it costs $500 just brand new in almost any

00:19:48.150 --> 00:19:50.920
other state. In California, if you buy the same

00:19:50.920 --> 00:19:53.240
thing on the secondary market, it'll be somewhere

00:19:53.240 --> 00:19:56.380
between $1 ,000 and $1 ,500. Yeah, not going

00:19:56.380 --> 00:19:59.180
there. Not going there. Right, exactly. It's

00:19:59.180 --> 00:20:02.220
the only way to legally acquire some of these

00:20:02.220 --> 00:20:04.680
guns because in the state of California, we still

00:20:04.680 --> 00:20:06.839
have the roster, the handgun roster. There's

00:20:06.839 --> 00:20:11.029
not been a new handgun added since... 2013. Checking

00:20:11.029 --> 00:20:13.710
my watch, that's 10 years. So all those great

00:20:13.710 --> 00:20:15.569
handguns you've seen on the cover of Guns and

00:20:15.569 --> 00:20:18.109
Ammo and the NRA magazines and everything else,

00:20:18.269 --> 00:20:20.630
we don't get them in California, at least unless

00:20:20.630 --> 00:20:22.869
you're in law enforcement. And remember, if you

00:20:22.869 --> 00:20:26.250
haven't listened to earlier editions of the show,

00:20:27.219 --> 00:20:29.079
And let's say you're new to the show and you're

00:20:29.079 --> 00:20:31.000
thinking, why are these morons living in California?

00:20:32.259 --> 00:20:35.920
It's because the value, quote, proposition, end

00:20:35.920 --> 00:20:38.900
quote, of our lives indicate that California,

00:20:39.119 --> 00:20:41.380
right now at least, is the place that we want

00:20:41.380 --> 00:20:44.900
to be. And I mentioned the whole stand and fight

00:20:44.900 --> 00:20:48.700
thing earlier. California is a beautiful state.

00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:52.359
It is. Beautiful coastline, mountains. It's got

00:20:52.359 --> 00:20:55.400
beautiful weather. It's got forests. It's got...

00:20:55.609 --> 00:20:58.150
Yosemite, it's got some of the best things. Taxes

00:20:58.150 --> 00:21:02.690
and fees and income tax and property tax and

00:21:02.690 --> 00:21:07.589
sales tax. Yes, and it's run by insane politicians.

00:21:07.950 --> 00:21:09.769
That's right. And we are a one -party state.

00:21:09.950 --> 00:21:13.740
And by that means there really is no... There's

00:21:13.740 --> 00:21:16.220
no Republican representative. There's Republicans

00:21:16.220 --> 00:21:19.160
in the Senate and in the state legislature, but

00:21:19.160 --> 00:21:21.799
they basically have almost no effect because

00:21:21.799 --> 00:21:24.960
two -thirds of the entire legislature is run

00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:27.480
by the single party, the Democrat, left wing

00:21:27.480 --> 00:21:30.579
of the Democrat. It's insanity. Yep, it is. But

00:21:30.579 --> 00:21:33.200
we're not doing a political show here. No, we're

00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:35.500
not. We're not doing that. And remember, and

00:21:35.500 --> 00:21:39.160
by the way, our Democrat friends out there, and

00:21:39.160 --> 00:21:42.039
I actually mean that. We have Democratic friends.

00:21:42.119 --> 00:21:44.799
Yeah. You're family members. It sounds sarcastic

00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:47.079
to say that, and I really mean it. I mean, I

00:21:47.079 --> 00:21:51.519
have close family, intelligent people who I simply

00:21:51.519 --> 00:21:54.799
just don't agree with. Correct. So you guys,

00:21:55.019 --> 00:21:58.839
that didn't sound right. People on the left,

00:21:58.920 --> 00:22:00.839
people who don't agree with our perspective,

00:22:00.880 --> 00:22:03.839
as long as they agree with the idea that self

00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:06.339
-defense is a fundamental human right. It's a

00:22:06.339 --> 00:22:09.539
fundamental natural right. Yes, you're right.

00:22:09.660 --> 00:22:12.019
Natural right. Natural right to all animals.

00:22:12.140 --> 00:22:15.059
All animals, including human beings, have a right

00:22:15.059 --> 00:22:18.099
to self -defense. It is a natural right. We could

00:22:18.099 --> 00:22:21.920
say God -given right. So no matter what you identify

00:22:21.920 --> 00:22:26.279
yourself as, you still have a right to self -defense,

00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:29.920
and you're welcome on this show. If, by the way,

00:22:29.980 --> 00:22:32.680
money is also an issue and you want to save it.

00:22:32.980 --> 00:22:35.299
Okay, so we've covered... So what's your number

00:22:35.299 --> 00:22:38.799
for The Shield? My number for The Shield... It's

00:22:38.799 --> 00:22:41.880
very good. I would have to probably say a 7 to

00:22:41.880 --> 00:22:44.400
an 8. And the only reason, it would have been

00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:47.240
higher if all we were looking at were Gen 1s.

00:22:47.339 --> 00:22:50.140
It probably would have been an 8 to a 9. But

00:22:50.140 --> 00:22:54.859
now that the Gen 2s are out, and better than

00:22:54.859 --> 00:22:57.859
that, another gun we can't get, which is the

00:22:57.859 --> 00:23:00.730
Shield Plus. which is basically the same thing

00:23:00.730 --> 00:23:03.869
as the Shield, except instead of using a single

00:23:03.869 --> 00:23:05.910
stack magazine, like was what we have in California,

00:23:06.210 --> 00:23:10.029
it has a staggered stack magazine, which gives

00:23:10.029 --> 00:23:12.569
you, I think, 12 rounds instead of the maximum.

00:23:14.109 --> 00:23:17.210
10 or 8 that we get. I think it's just 8 that

00:23:17.210 --> 00:23:18.829
we get in our existing one. So you pick up like

00:23:18.829 --> 00:23:21.269
another 4 rounds with a staggered on the Shield

00:23:21.269 --> 00:23:23.569
Plus. And the nice thing with the Shield Plus

00:23:23.569 --> 00:23:26.769
is it does fit in all of the existing holsters

00:23:26.769 --> 00:23:29.269
for your shield because it just fattens up the

00:23:29.269 --> 00:23:31.970
grip by about not even a quarter inch or something.

00:23:32.269 --> 00:23:35.609
Yeah, I'm looking at it right now on Gundot Deals.

00:23:35.650 --> 00:23:38.990
It's a 10 round and the price point is still

00:23:38.990 --> 00:23:45.009
running about 10 % less. or so than Glock 43.

00:23:45.430 --> 00:23:47.750
Yeah, and that's 10 rounds with the standard

00:23:47.750 --> 00:23:50.569
length magazine. If you do the extended magazine,

00:23:50.650 --> 00:23:52.289
you pick up probably another two rounds, so it's

00:23:52.289 --> 00:23:53.950
probably like 12. I guess I'm going to get...

00:23:53.950 --> 00:23:56.849
I was thinking about giving it a 7. I think maybe

00:23:56.849 --> 00:23:59.309
since they've maintained the price advantage,

00:23:59.750 --> 00:24:03.710
I guess I'd have to go with an 8. I guess if

00:24:03.710 --> 00:24:06.569
it was the... If it was a Glock 43 for this,

00:24:06.710 --> 00:24:09.329
then at the same... If it was cost competitive

00:24:09.329 --> 00:24:12.529
with the Glock 43, I think it'd probably fall

00:24:12.529 --> 00:24:16.230
to about a 6 in my estimation, only because of

00:24:16.230 --> 00:24:19.569
the price advantage and the fact that they really

00:24:19.569 --> 00:24:22.170
are advancing the model. They are, and they've

00:24:22.170 --> 00:24:24.210
done a great job. I mean, the trigger on the

00:24:24.210 --> 00:24:26.750
shields is very, very good. Even the Gen 1s,

00:24:26.750 --> 00:24:28.930
I have held... I don't think it's better than

00:24:28.930 --> 00:24:31.539
a Glock 43. Well, to be honest with you, I have

00:24:31.539 --> 00:24:34.079
not actually gotten to fire a Glock 43. I did

00:24:34.079 --> 00:24:35.900
actually get to see one, hold one in another

00:24:35.900 --> 00:24:37.680
state. That's why you should have gone to the

00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:40.460
SHOT Show. Because you could have at least dry

00:24:40.460 --> 00:24:42.119
-fired these things. That's true. That's a true

00:24:42.119 --> 00:24:45.339
point. So, okay, the next item up is a me item.

00:24:45.400 --> 00:24:49.619
It's the LaRue MBT -2S trigger, which I mentioned

00:24:49.619 --> 00:24:52.220
last time, which is a parts kit trigger, not

00:24:52.220 --> 00:24:56.400
a drop -in trigger, for the AR -15 and variants

00:24:56.400 --> 00:25:00.849
thereof. That's a straight -up 10. To me, that

00:25:00.849 --> 00:25:05.210
is as good as any two -stage trigger I've ever

00:25:05.210 --> 00:25:08.589
felt. And I'm a two -stage guy. And the price

00:25:08.589 --> 00:25:12.230
point on it, it's crept up over time. Understandably,

00:25:12.329 --> 00:25:14.609
there's something called inflation that perhaps

00:25:14.609 --> 00:25:17.630
a few of you have heard of. But at the same time,

00:25:17.670 --> 00:25:20.950
I haven't seen anything cost competitive with

00:25:20.950 --> 00:25:25.730
it that is its equal. We'll see that new trigger

00:25:25.730 --> 00:25:29.210
tech. drop -in trigger that has a price point

00:25:29.210 --> 00:25:33.289
of around $150, I wouldn't say would be the LaRue

00:25:33.289 --> 00:25:36.849
killer, but it's going to give them a quote run

00:25:36.849 --> 00:25:40.089
for their money. I tried it at shot, just sitting

00:25:40.089 --> 00:25:43.509
on the test stand, and I would say that at the

00:25:43.509 --> 00:25:46.309
price point, that is the best drop -in two -stage

00:25:46.309 --> 00:25:49.190
trigger. So again, the LaRue though that I actually

00:25:49.190 --> 00:25:51.670
own, straight up 10. You have a gun to cover,

00:25:51.750 --> 00:25:57.980
Ken. Taurus 856. Taurus 856 is, they're making

00:25:57.980 --> 00:26:00.079
a couple of different variants, but the one that

00:26:00.079 --> 00:26:03.660
I acquired was stainless steel. I like the Taurus.

00:26:04.460 --> 00:26:06.299
They used to have a bad reputation, but they've

00:26:06.299 --> 00:26:08.660
gotten quite a bit better. The nice thing, if

00:26:08.660 --> 00:26:11.099
a firearm is available in blue steel and also

00:26:11.099 --> 00:26:15.799
for a $20 or $40, $50 increase, you can buy it

00:26:15.799 --> 00:26:19.380
in stainless steel, I almost 99 .9 % of the time

00:26:19.380 --> 00:26:22.200
will... will opt for the 50 more expensive one

00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:25.000
to have it stainless steel just because i prefer

00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:28.279
the additional durability i mean you can still

00:26:28.279 --> 00:26:31.119
rest stainless steel so you want to keep it you

00:26:31.119 --> 00:26:32.819
know clean and oil and stuff but it's just a

00:26:32.819 --> 00:26:35.390
little bit more forgiving, particularly in those

00:26:35.390 --> 00:26:37.769
environments where you might have high humidity.

00:26:37.950 --> 00:26:40.029
Now, we do not have high humidity in Southern

00:26:40.029 --> 00:26:44.349
California for the most part. But again, it's

00:26:44.349 --> 00:26:46.730
just a nice little feature to have, if you ask

00:26:46.730 --> 00:26:49.230
me. And there are some firearms that are available

00:26:49.230 --> 00:26:51.930
in, if you want a black or dark one, they do

00:26:51.930 --> 00:26:54.849
have stainless steel that's been blacked out.

00:26:54.910 --> 00:26:58.049
They have like a melamite or mela. Mela, I can't

00:26:58.049 --> 00:27:00.450
think of any of it. It's a coating over the stainless

00:27:00.450 --> 00:27:02.849
steel to make it black. Actually, all of the

00:27:02.849 --> 00:27:07.509
M &P Smith & Wessons, which have the M &P shield

00:27:07.509 --> 00:27:10.849
and the M &P full size, those are actually stainless

00:27:10.849 --> 00:27:15.549
steel slides that have a black melanine, melanite

00:27:15.549 --> 00:27:18.089
coating on it, whatever. Well, it's not the stuff

00:27:18.089 --> 00:27:21.109
that covers your kitchen counters. No, no, no.

00:27:21.190 --> 00:27:22.950
I can't think. I've got to look it up. That's

00:27:22.950 --> 00:27:25.799
melanin, yeah. But yeah, it's a black coating

00:27:25.799 --> 00:27:27.339
that goes over stainless steel if you don't want

00:27:27.339 --> 00:27:30.759
that bright white steel sort of a look to it.

00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:36.180
But anyway, with the Taurus 856. We had an opening

00:27:36.180 --> 00:27:38.619
of a local gun store that opened here in San

00:27:38.619 --> 00:27:41.460
Diego recently and was able to pick one up for

00:27:41.460 --> 00:27:44.619
$299, which I think is a tremendous value proposition.

00:27:45.299 --> 00:27:47.700
It came with a couple of grips. It came with

00:27:47.700 --> 00:27:50.539
a wood grip and it came with a polymer grip to

00:27:50.539 --> 00:27:53.539
it. And it had a very decent, it's a six -shot,

00:27:53.539 --> 00:27:58.099
38 special, plus P rated, which, to be honest

00:27:58.099 --> 00:28:01.480
with you, is very, very good for home defense.

00:28:01.940 --> 00:28:06.000
It was recommended, I recommended it to a friend

00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:10.539
of mine who is a widow now, and she wanted to

00:28:10.539 --> 00:28:13.200
get a firearm, a first firearm type of deal.

00:28:13.559 --> 00:28:15.480
And I was so impressed with it that I bought

00:28:15.480 --> 00:28:17.759
one myself, which is high praise right there.

00:28:17.920 --> 00:28:20.339
And that will definitely show in my increased

00:28:20.339 --> 00:28:23.400
rating for it when we get there. So what do you

00:28:23.400 --> 00:28:26.059
rate it at? I don't own one, so I'm not qualified

00:28:26.059 --> 00:28:28.359
to rate that thing. I rate that as a solid nine.

00:28:28.779 --> 00:28:31.059
I think it's an excellent value. They make it

00:28:31.059 --> 00:28:34.220
in several variants. They make it in a two, like,

00:28:34.559 --> 00:28:36.140
Two and a half inch or two and a quarter inch

00:28:36.140 --> 00:28:38.539
is what I probably have on the snub nose. They

00:28:38.539 --> 00:28:40.559
also make it three inch and four inch, I believe.

00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:43.680
I think almost any variant of it is perfect.

00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:48.240
You can buy reduced power springs in it. The

00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:51.380
springs are pretty decent. In other words, the

00:28:51.380 --> 00:28:53.660
trigger pull is pretty long and pretty, but it's

00:28:53.660 --> 00:28:56.619
very smooth, very smooth. But it's probably got

00:28:56.619 --> 00:28:58.900
like an 8 -pound trigger pull, which is fine

00:28:58.900 --> 00:29:00.799
on a revolver because you're rotating the cylinder

00:29:00.799 --> 00:29:03.680
as well as cocking the hammer. So that's quite

00:29:03.680 --> 00:29:06.519
a bit. But you can also put in different springs

00:29:06.519 --> 00:29:08.859
to reduce that if you want. And you can do quite

00:29:08.859 --> 00:29:11.039
a bit of gunsmithing with it. And there's a ton

00:29:11.039 --> 00:29:12.980
of different grips out there available. Hogue

00:29:12.980 --> 00:29:14.720
makes one. Actually, I did buy the Hogue grip

00:29:14.720 --> 00:29:18.119
added to it. Liked it very much. And it's gone

00:29:18.119 --> 00:29:23.640
into my carry repertoire. Good stuff. So the

00:29:23.640 --> 00:29:26.819
next item. Oh, did you give it a number? Was

00:29:26.819 --> 00:29:28.619
I not listening to you? You gave it a nine. Okay.

00:29:28.640 --> 00:29:31.980
Gosh, I got distracted there for a minute. I

00:29:31.980 --> 00:29:35.240
am going to now. Well, actually, we're both going

00:29:35.240 --> 00:29:38.160
to talk about the AR -7 that we reviewed. Now,

00:29:38.180 --> 00:29:39.680
I think this is maybe what we're going to have

00:29:39.680 --> 00:29:42.160
our first disagreement during this show about

00:29:42.160 --> 00:29:45.400
the value proposition of the AR -7. So if you

00:29:45.400 --> 00:29:47.500
don't know and you didn't listen to the previous.

00:29:48.299 --> 00:29:52.759
Air 7 is a breakdown survival rifle that all

00:29:52.759 --> 00:29:56.519
stores in the stock. It floats. It floats. And

00:29:56.519 --> 00:30:02.519
it's a fun little gun, but I got mine. Mine happens

00:30:02.519 --> 00:30:05.420
to be a Charger Arms, which... dates it a lot

00:30:05.420 --> 00:30:07.460
because it's been about 30 years or so yeah it's

00:30:07.460 --> 00:30:10.279
more than 30 years 35 something like that 35

00:30:10.279 --> 00:30:12.539
years it's been a long time since i bought that

00:30:12.539 --> 00:30:15.200
and i bought it for well less than 100 and i

00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:18.720
don't know if it was audible on the podcast but

00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:20.680
i just pulled up the prices for those and i kind

00:30:20.680 --> 00:30:24.660
of gasped almost 400 bucks uh yeah or more than

00:30:24.660 --> 00:30:31.049
400 and that is astounded uh Disappointing, and

00:30:31.049 --> 00:30:35.809
I don't think sustainable, and Henry doesn't

00:30:35.809 --> 00:30:39.869
build rifles at a very fast rate right now, so

00:30:39.869 --> 00:30:42.349
I don't even know how... Henry builds some great

00:30:42.349 --> 00:30:44.950
stuff, though. God. Well, first let's talk about

00:30:44.950 --> 00:30:46.950
your Charter Arms version of it, okay? The AR

00:30:46.950 --> 00:30:50.930
-7, and I like to buy, since we're talking about

00:30:50.930 --> 00:30:54.250
frugal and getting value, I'm very big into buying

00:30:54.250 --> 00:30:57.430
used firearms, okay? Okay. But not everyone has

00:30:57.430 --> 00:30:59.210
that. I mean, so where would you go for that?

00:30:59.250 --> 00:31:02.910
You go to gunbroker .com or grab a gun or something

00:31:02.910 --> 00:31:04.750
like that. Or just down to your local gun store.

00:31:04.849 --> 00:31:08.250
I constantly am going through the racks at gun

00:31:08.250 --> 00:31:11.289
stores around town looking at what comes in.

00:31:11.609 --> 00:31:14.349
And the other thing is pawn shops. Not all pawn

00:31:14.349 --> 00:31:17.710
shops you can pawn a firearm at, but many of

00:31:17.710 --> 00:31:19.789
them do have that. Pawn shops are a great place.

00:31:20.049 --> 00:31:22.329
The great thing about pawn shops is that pawn

00:31:22.329 --> 00:31:24.869
shops will almost always list the firearm at

00:31:24.869 --> 00:31:28.079
the... current brand new price. And it's like,

00:31:28.140 --> 00:31:30.779
well, they want $500 for it or whatever the price

00:31:30.779 --> 00:31:33.900
might be. Uh -huh. Pawn shops are a suggestion.

00:31:34.759 --> 00:31:37.400
You're like, nah, I'm not, I don't want to do

00:31:37.400 --> 00:31:40.160
that. I will give you, and cash speaks volumes

00:31:40.160 --> 00:31:42.680
at a pawn shop. You can walk into a pawn shop

00:31:42.680 --> 00:31:45.740
and I've gotten 30, 40 % off certain things because

00:31:45.740 --> 00:31:47.200
you can sit there and go, hey, that's unusual.

00:31:47.440 --> 00:31:49.420
It's weird. It's going to sit there for a year.

00:31:49.960 --> 00:31:52.059
Wouldn't you prefer just that you... You bought

00:31:52.059 --> 00:31:54.980
it for 25 cents on the dollar. Wouldn't you like

00:31:54.980 --> 00:31:57.079
to sell it for 50 cents on the dollar? You're

00:31:57.079 --> 00:31:59.940
making money. But isn't that, I mean, doesn't,

00:31:59.940 --> 00:32:03.079
like if someone sells them, I don't know, a Fabergé

00:32:03.079 --> 00:32:05.019
egg or something like that that they can't move.

00:32:05.119 --> 00:32:07.440
There are unscrupulous things and there are people

00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:08.960
who, yeah, there are weird things. Okay, but

00:32:08.960 --> 00:32:11.500
I mean, don't guns move right off the shelf at

00:32:11.500 --> 00:32:14.339
a pawn shop? No, sometimes they sit there a long,

00:32:14.420 --> 00:32:17.059
long time. Do they? A long time. I don't frequent

00:32:17.059 --> 00:32:19.640
pawn shops. I do. I frequent pawn shops. Okay.

00:32:20.059 --> 00:32:21.759
I go to several pawn shops all the time. I'm

00:32:21.759 --> 00:32:23.720
not criticizing. I know you're not. Okay. I'm

00:32:23.720 --> 00:32:25.960
just saying, I've gotten some fantastic deals

00:32:25.960 --> 00:32:28.819
on some wonderful... Okay, well, let's go with

00:32:28.819 --> 00:32:31.279
your number then. So we previously covered the

00:32:31.279 --> 00:32:33.180
AR -7 and what we like and don't like about it,

00:32:33.240 --> 00:32:35.500
but if you're going to get 30 % off of a $400

00:32:35.500 --> 00:32:38.420
gun, if you're lucky enough to find it and it's

00:32:38.420 --> 00:32:41.140
in good condition that it's actually worth, like

00:32:41.140 --> 00:32:44.279
it's still worth 70 % of its original cost, how

00:32:44.279 --> 00:32:46.880
does that compare to maybe a gun you haven't

00:32:46.880 --> 00:32:49.559
seen yet? But to me, the Winchester Wildcat,

00:32:49.680 --> 00:32:53.940
which comes in at more than $100 less, which

00:32:53.940 --> 00:32:59.279
takes AR, it takes the Ruger 1022 Rotary magazine,

00:32:59.460 --> 00:33:02.299
or it takes their own magazine. Interesting.

00:33:02.339 --> 00:33:04.839
It takes both. And I mentioned before that I

00:33:04.839 --> 00:33:07.960
think that probably indicates that Ruger's patent

00:33:07.960 --> 00:33:10.079
on the design of their magazine must have expired

00:33:10.079 --> 00:33:12.319
a long time ago. They've been building them since

00:33:12.319 --> 00:33:15.819
like 64. Something like that, yeah. But the Winchester

00:33:15.819 --> 00:33:19.299
Wildcat, now it's not a breakdown gun, so its

00:33:19.299 --> 00:33:22.559
full size is going to stay that way. But if I

00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:25.180
were to look at that, or let's just say even

00:33:25.180 --> 00:33:27.640
the Henry Minibold or something like that, well,

00:33:27.720 --> 00:33:29.660
that's not a semi -auto. If you want it to be

00:33:29.660 --> 00:33:31.380
apples to apples, it needs to be another semi

00:33:31.380 --> 00:33:35.140
-auto. I like the fact that the AR7 is a semi

00:33:35.140 --> 00:33:38.380
-auto and breaks down small, but I'm really not

00:33:38.380 --> 00:33:43.799
liking the $400 price tag on this at all. And

00:33:43.799 --> 00:33:47.190
I would have to say that... Maybe I'll just accept

00:33:47.190 --> 00:33:49.450
a little additional size and go for something

00:33:49.450 --> 00:33:51.269
that doesn't break down. So I'm going to say

00:33:51.269 --> 00:33:54.490
that right now, oh, God, the value proposition

00:33:54.490 --> 00:33:57.849
for me on an AR -7 is about a 4. Yeah, I would

00:33:57.849 --> 00:34:00.529
have to almost agree. It's a 4, maybe to a 5.

00:34:00.650 --> 00:34:03.859
I mean, it is a very nice, very compact. If you

00:34:03.859 --> 00:34:06.819
just want to carry, you're going out backpacking,

00:34:06.819 --> 00:34:09.199
going out hiking, you're going a distance, and

00:34:09.199 --> 00:34:11.519
you want to take maybe 100 rounds of .22 with

00:34:11.519 --> 00:34:14.500
you, which weighs almost nothing, and your weight

00:34:14.500 --> 00:34:17.099
really is critical. Okay, so I think the thing

00:34:17.099 --> 00:34:19.960
weighs like two and a half pounds, including

00:34:19.960 --> 00:34:23.380
the 100 rounds of ammunition. That can, you can

00:34:23.380 --> 00:34:27.000
definitely, you know, make the thing that saves

00:34:27.000 --> 00:34:31.300
weight on a backpack. And so there is value to

00:34:31.300 --> 00:34:32.699
it, but I would agree. Maybe just because of

00:34:32.699 --> 00:34:35.519
its breakdown characteristic more than anything

00:34:35.519 --> 00:34:37.539
else. I guess if you have to have a breakdown

00:34:37.539 --> 00:34:41.239
gun, then yeah. Yeah, and both of our AR -7s,

00:34:41.239 --> 00:34:43.739
I bought mine used, and you got your one used

00:34:43.739 --> 00:34:45.780
as well, your first one, your Charter Arms anyway,

00:34:45.940 --> 00:34:49.929
that was used. Yeah, but, well... I'm having

00:34:49.929 --> 00:34:51.409
trouble remembering whether it was used or not.

00:34:51.550 --> 00:34:57.250
It was used. It had a bent barrel. That's true.

00:34:57.769 --> 00:34:59.909
I sent the barrel into Charter Arms and they

00:34:59.909 --> 00:35:01.250
replaced the barrel, which was good on them.

00:35:01.809 --> 00:35:05.110
Okay, but what would we get into in cases where

00:35:05.110 --> 00:35:08.309
a person could have an SBR? You want to pay a

00:35:08.309 --> 00:35:10.829
$200 tax stamp on an SBR? Well, if you're in

00:35:10.829 --> 00:35:13.130
Texas and it's a locally produced SBR, maybe

00:35:13.130 --> 00:35:14.929
you won't be paying that. I'm not sure I'm ready

00:35:14.929 --> 00:35:17.190
to... Well, we don't live in Texas. We don't

00:35:17.190 --> 00:35:20.579
live in Texas. But would the, I mean, what would

00:35:20.579 --> 00:35:23.320
you spend on building a decent SBR? Now, I mean,

00:35:23.340 --> 00:35:26.639
it's going to be a multiple of this, but it's

00:35:26.639 --> 00:35:29.019
going to be a lot more versatile. Yeah, it would

00:35:29.019 --> 00:35:32.079
be. I mean, you could do an AR -type pistol with

00:35:32.079 --> 00:35:35.340
a 10 -inch barrel, take down with a, you could

00:35:35.340 --> 00:35:37.320
do a lot, but you're talking north of a grand.

00:35:38.250 --> 00:35:40.429
Yeah, but is north of a grand a better value

00:35:40.429 --> 00:35:45.409
than $400 on a 22? Well, I like 22s. I think

00:35:45.409 --> 00:35:48.769
22s are the advantage. Yeah, they're underpowered,

00:35:48.849 --> 00:35:51.530
but in theory, yes, theory, you're going to be

00:35:51.530 --> 00:35:53.929
using it for, you're not going out Kodiak bear

00:35:53.929 --> 00:35:56.329
hunting with a 22. Yeah, as you talked about

00:35:56.329 --> 00:35:59.570
before, right? Okay, so next product up that

00:35:59.570 --> 00:36:03.369
we forgot to give a value rating to was the Jerry

00:36:03.369 --> 00:36:09.219
Michlik 223 Compensator. Short about this, that's

00:36:09.219 --> 00:36:12.820
about a nine. It's an excellent compensator that

00:36:12.820 --> 00:36:16.940
does the job objectively better than most comps

00:36:16.940 --> 00:36:20.579
that both cost more and look like they came out

00:36:20.579 --> 00:36:23.539
of a fantasy movie. And could you spend less

00:36:23.539 --> 00:36:26.360
and get 80 % of the effectiveness? Actually,

00:36:26.500 --> 00:36:28.639
yeah, you can. There are ways to do that and

00:36:28.639 --> 00:36:31.699
buy a really cheap comp. But I think that that,

00:36:31.820 --> 00:36:35.619
to me, is my go -to comp, and it doesn't cost

00:36:35.619 --> 00:36:38.599
much at all. So moving on to the new product

00:36:38.599 --> 00:36:42.780
category here. It's the HoloSun. Right. I wanted

00:36:42.780 --> 00:36:46.079
to, you don't have the HoloSun 407K X2, do you?

00:36:46.099 --> 00:36:49.059
I do not. You do not. I do. And that's what sits

00:36:49.059 --> 00:36:52.500
on my shield. And so why did I choose that being

00:36:52.500 --> 00:36:56.860
so value centric as I am? What I looked at the,

00:36:56.880 --> 00:36:59.159
you know, the breadth of red dots out there,

00:36:59.239 --> 00:37:02.579
I found that most red dots, well, they're dots.

00:37:02.719 --> 00:37:05.800
And that sounds. parenthetically obvious but

00:37:05.800 --> 00:37:08.699
most of them are like very very bright dots that

00:37:08.699 --> 00:37:11.260
tend to kind of have a lot of glare if they're

00:37:11.260 --> 00:37:14.519
bright enough and your brain i would say your

00:37:14.519 --> 00:37:16.920
eye doesn't like to look at bright contrasty

00:37:16.920 --> 00:37:20.099
objects and that's true except your eye doesn't

00:37:20.099 --> 00:37:22.039
have an opinion your brain does but but your

00:37:22.039 --> 00:37:24.519
optical system let's put it that way actually

00:37:24.519 --> 00:37:27.679
doesn't like to look at a bright object against

00:37:27.679 --> 00:37:31.619
a background like that and so looking at a red

00:37:31.619 --> 00:37:35.829
dot the traditional red dot is actually slightly

00:37:35.829 --> 00:37:39.750
an unnatural thing to do. And I also found that

00:37:39.750 --> 00:37:42.409
across the spectrum of what you can spend on

00:37:42.409 --> 00:37:45.110
red dots, that you could spend $100 or you could

00:37:45.110 --> 00:37:48.969
spend $300. You could spend $50. Yeah, and sometimes

00:37:48.969 --> 00:37:51.710
the difference is you're probably paying in durability

00:37:51.710 --> 00:37:55.469
at some point. Well, you are paying in durability

00:37:55.469 --> 00:37:58.869
at some point. But there are price points at

00:37:58.869 --> 00:38:01.920
which the... extra money you're spending isn't

00:38:01.920 --> 00:38:05.519
buying you much or anything. The thing that distinguishes

00:38:05.519 --> 00:38:10.079
to me the Holosun 407K with the 6 MOA dot is

00:38:10.079 --> 00:38:13.219
not just that I'm not more accurate than that.

00:38:13.239 --> 00:38:16.340
That is not the point. It's that the dot isn't

00:38:16.340 --> 00:38:20.940
a bright, shiny star. It is a disk. And I don't

00:38:20.940 --> 00:38:22.920
mean a circle because I think circles are silly

00:38:22.920 --> 00:38:26.420
and distracting and don't really belong on red

00:38:26.420 --> 00:38:29.760
dot sites. it looks like the best analogy is

00:38:29.760 --> 00:38:32.280
a stoplight it looks it's it's just a red disc

00:38:32.280 --> 00:38:35.880
and it doesn't glare at all so it's actually

00:38:35.880 --> 00:38:38.739
and it shows up somewhat you know translucently

00:38:38.739 --> 00:38:43.219
but it also has excellent definition and it ends

00:38:43.219 --> 00:38:46.539
up being something easier to pick up and easier

00:38:46.539 --> 00:38:49.719
to stay focused on your target because it's not

00:38:49.719 --> 00:38:53.349
super contrasty it's contrasty enough But it

00:38:53.349 --> 00:38:56.090
doesn't have the glare with the star effects

00:38:56.090 --> 00:38:59.210
around it. And for people with astigmatism, that

00:38:59.210 --> 00:39:02.550
matters. The optical glass is all right. It's

00:39:02.550 --> 00:39:07.070
not as flat as I would like. But to me, the differentiator

00:39:07.070 --> 00:39:10.170
was that dot. And I would say, and it does shake

00:39:10.170 --> 00:39:12.429
awake. It has a 50 ,000 -hour battery, assuming

00:39:12.429 --> 00:39:16.619
it's not on all the time. And I would... At current

00:39:16.619 --> 00:39:19.519
price point, I'd give it probably an 8. It would

00:39:19.519 --> 00:39:22.440
get a 10 if the glass was as flat as some of

00:39:22.440 --> 00:39:25.239
the more expensive ones. So this mounts on the...

00:39:25.239 --> 00:39:29.480
It's an RMSC. Okay. The C for compact. It fits

00:39:29.480 --> 00:39:33.760
on small receivers. Or, I'm sorry. Slides. It

00:39:33.760 --> 00:39:37.960
fits on small slides. It is not a Trijicon footprint.

00:39:38.199 --> 00:39:43.019
It's an RMSC. Right. And maybe this is me, but

00:39:43.019 --> 00:39:48.599
I have yet to buy in or become particularly enamored

00:39:48.599 --> 00:39:53.269
with any sort of red dot on a handgun. I don't

00:39:53.269 --> 00:39:56.309
know why. Okay, but yeah, you do know why. Well,

00:39:56.389 --> 00:39:58.190
you have thoughts of why. I have thoughts of

00:39:58.190 --> 00:40:00.510
why. Okay. I mean, from a rifle perspective,

00:40:00.769 --> 00:40:04.010
absolutely. A carbine particularly, great thing

00:40:04.010 --> 00:40:06.449
to have. Red dot, wonderful thing to have. I

00:40:06.449 --> 00:40:08.329
don't know, pistol, because you're increasing

00:40:08.329 --> 00:40:10.289
the vertical height of the pistol, which is,

00:40:10.349 --> 00:40:13.030
in my opinion, is most of the things I would

00:40:13.030 --> 00:40:15.829
do for concealed carry. So to me, it's something

00:40:15.829 --> 00:40:19.610
sticking up. in the back and it'll snag on something

00:40:19.610 --> 00:40:23.449
at the worst possible moment. I find it unnatural

00:40:23.449 --> 00:40:26.789
to rely upon it because what if the battery's

00:40:26.789 --> 00:40:28.710
out? What if you knocked it down? It's just not

00:40:28.710 --> 00:40:30.670
working. Well, that's called co -witness. That's

00:40:30.670 --> 00:40:32.409
why you put suppressors. I understand that. High

00:40:32.409 --> 00:40:37.309
sights. I get it. But to me, I'm an iron sights

00:40:37.309 --> 00:40:39.230
guy. I learned on iron sights. I've been firing

00:40:39.230 --> 00:40:42.610
iron sights for half a century or whatever. I

00:40:42.610 --> 00:40:44.989
like them. I do like the fiber optic sights,

00:40:45.090 --> 00:40:48.429
the $3. fiber optic sights on there, which will

00:40:48.429 --> 00:40:51.090
use a natural ambient light in the room or whatever

00:40:51.090 --> 00:40:54.010
it might be. And sometimes with glow, like Trijicon

00:40:54.010 --> 00:40:57.550
will have an additional glow. But I'm more of

00:40:57.550 --> 00:40:59.929
an iron sights guy. I haven't bought into this

00:40:59.929 --> 00:41:02.489
whole thing that these pistols have to have these

00:41:02.489 --> 00:41:05.769
electronic optics on them yet. I'm not there.

00:41:05.809 --> 00:41:08.409
I am an adopter. Well, I have both. I have iron

00:41:08.409 --> 00:41:11.679
sights and... Red dot. To me, the red dot makes

00:41:11.679 --> 00:41:14.960
the most sense for one particular reason above

00:41:14.960 --> 00:41:17.179
all others. And it's not just the cool factor

00:41:17.179 --> 00:41:19.480
and stuff like that. Like, you know, look how

00:41:19.480 --> 00:41:22.179
much more money I put into my gun. It's the fact

00:41:22.179 --> 00:41:25.739
that I don't necessarily accept that people who...

00:41:25.739 --> 00:41:28.000
Now, okay, I'm going to stereotype our audience

00:41:28.000 --> 00:41:30.400
a little bit here. We've mentioned this before

00:41:30.400 --> 00:41:33.300
in previous episodes. People who train all the

00:41:33.300 --> 00:41:36.769
time on guns and who put... Tens of thousands

00:41:36.769 --> 00:41:40.409
of rounds in guns every year are probably baked

00:41:40.409 --> 00:41:44.230
into the front side focus all the time, every

00:41:44.230 --> 00:41:48.510
day. And they have put that, and perhaps they've

00:41:48.510 --> 00:41:51.389
been people who have pressure tested that against

00:41:51.389 --> 00:41:55.530
real threats in the real world. I surmise that

00:41:55.530 --> 00:41:58.329
most of our listeners are not those people and

00:41:58.329 --> 00:42:01.730
that they want to get the most shooting enjoyment

00:42:01.730 --> 00:42:05.050
as they can out of their guns for the limited

00:42:05.050 --> 00:42:06.710
amount of time that they're able to use them.

00:42:06.849 --> 00:42:11.769
So I'm surmising that most people will, when

00:42:11.769 --> 00:42:15.829
faced with a real life -threatening threat that

00:42:15.829 --> 00:42:18.389
they have not been able to train against because

00:42:18.389 --> 00:42:24.519
it's really hard at a square range testing against

00:42:24.519 --> 00:42:28.539
paper or even a picture of a bad guy you know

00:42:28.539 --> 00:42:31.219
it's not a bad guy you know that that piece of

00:42:31.219 --> 00:42:34.480
paper is not going to attack you in the street

00:42:34.480 --> 00:42:36.940
put quotes around that because you know you always

00:42:36.940 --> 00:42:39.079
hear the phrase that'll get you killed in the

00:42:39.079 --> 00:42:42.119
street okay i don't think that this advice will

00:42:42.119 --> 00:42:45.300
get you killed in the street but i think that

00:42:45.300 --> 00:42:48.380
people will have a tendency to focus on the thing

00:42:48.380 --> 00:42:51.920
that is attacking them and it will be hard to

00:42:51.920 --> 00:42:55.579
bring yourself back in the moment, to remember

00:42:55.579 --> 00:42:58.960
to focus on the front sight. And because of that,

00:42:59.019 --> 00:43:02.960
since the red dot superimposes the aim point

00:43:02.960 --> 00:43:06.260
against the target, it's a single focal plane

00:43:06.260 --> 00:43:09.199
now. And I think that's the reason that the red

00:43:09.199 --> 00:43:12.619
dot is not only the way to go, but also the way

00:43:12.619 --> 00:43:16.159
to start. Some people will disagree with that,

00:43:16.199 --> 00:43:18.019
say, learn the fundamentals first. That'd be

00:43:18.019 --> 00:43:20.860
me. And that would be you. And I don't disrespect

00:43:20.860 --> 00:43:23.199
that argument because I understand the argument.

00:43:23.719 --> 00:43:26.400
But for people who are only going to put a limited

00:43:26.400 --> 00:43:28.380
number of rounds through their gun and want to

00:43:28.380 --> 00:43:31.900
become as effective as possible, as fast as possible.

00:43:32.599 --> 00:43:34.880
To me, it's analogous to, if I were to draw a

00:43:34.880 --> 00:43:37.239
car analogy, would I rather have a person be

00:43:37.239 --> 00:43:40.119
able to understand vehicle dynamics with an automatic

00:43:40.119 --> 00:43:42.420
transmission or learn their way through a manual

00:43:42.420 --> 00:43:44.940
transmission just because, That's a fundamental.

00:43:45.840 --> 00:43:48.460
I'd say I'd rather have them learn how to drive

00:43:48.460 --> 00:43:51.000
the car and let the car figure out the gear changes.

00:43:51.300 --> 00:43:54.380
It's not a perfect analogy, but I think that

00:43:54.380 --> 00:43:56.539
the analogy is somewhat valid in the sense that

00:43:56.539 --> 00:44:00.059
when you're dealing with a potential accident

00:44:00.059 --> 00:44:03.880
in a car, you need to worry about braking, steering,

00:44:04.119 --> 00:44:07.039
and other vehicles around you. When you're dealing

00:44:07.039 --> 00:44:09.980
with a life -threatening situation in the street,

00:44:10.219 --> 00:44:14.320
you're dealing with the threat. the sight picture,

00:44:14.500 --> 00:44:18.039
what's behind him. Is it a shot you can actually

00:44:18.039 --> 00:44:20.800
take safely or not based on your skill, based

00:44:20.800 --> 00:44:23.679
on the range? The thing you don't want to also

00:44:23.679 --> 00:44:26.719
have to think about is changing your focus when

00:44:26.719 --> 00:44:29.519
you've already got now tunnel vision. That's

00:44:29.519 --> 00:44:31.679
the reason I think that the red dot's the way

00:44:31.679 --> 00:44:36.320
to go. I get it, but I started out and have done

00:44:36.320 --> 00:44:40.539
a lot of trap and skeet shooting. Okay. And the

00:44:40.539 --> 00:44:42.380
thing about trap and skeet is with a shotgun,

00:44:42.579 --> 00:44:45.340
you do not aim a shotgun. Sounds counterintuitive.

00:44:45.699 --> 00:44:49.840
You point a shotgun. Yeah. You point it, but

00:44:49.840 --> 00:44:52.760
you do not aim it. Yeah. And that's because you've

00:44:52.760 --> 00:44:54.400
got all bunch of different factors. We don't

00:44:54.400 --> 00:44:57.440
have to go into them here now. But as much of

00:44:57.440 --> 00:45:00.300
that, I also find that with a handgun at any

00:45:00.300 --> 00:45:02.920
distance where you're going to talk about like

00:45:02.920 --> 00:45:05.559
seven yards or under the famous 21 feet or less.

00:45:06.639 --> 00:45:10.530
To me, it's pointing it. My quickest draw would

00:45:10.530 --> 00:45:12.909
be able to point, and I practice this with both

00:45:12.909 --> 00:45:16.250
lasers, and I practice it at the range, drawing

00:45:16.250 --> 00:45:19.489
and firing, and I can pretty much hit a milk

00:45:19.489 --> 00:45:23.869
jug at 21 feet without aiming. And that's a really

00:45:23.869 --> 00:45:27.030
good point, too, because there's a certain value

00:45:27.030 --> 00:45:31.039
in learning. The consistency and quality of the

00:45:31.039 --> 00:45:33.500
presentation of the weapon. Yeah. And that's

00:45:33.500 --> 00:45:37.460
a body mechanics thing that everyone needs to,

00:45:37.579 --> 00:45:41.019
even if it's just dry fire or just drawing practice

00:45:41.019 --> 00:45:44.969
in your house. or at some safe location without

00:45:44.969 --> 00:45:47.610
using any ammunition, you need to get the draw

00:45:47.610 --> 00:45:50.030
down to the point. I'm going to bring up another

00:45:50.030 --> 00:45:51.989
controversial person who a lot of people will

00:45:51.989 --> 00:45:55.369
recoil when they hear Instructor Zero because

00:45:55.369 --> 00:45:57.150
a lot of people think he's all about himself

00:45:57.150 --> 00:46:00.309
and really all he's doing is showing you how

00:46:00.309 --> 00:46:02.969
good he is. But that guy has got to the point

00:46:02.969 --> 00:46:06.869
where his positioning, his entire presentation,

00:46:07.210 --> 00:46:11.210
is good enough that he can hit targets up to

00:46:11.210 --> 00:46:14.409
maybe... maybe a 10 -inch circle at 50 yards

00:46:14.409 --> 00:46:18.210
with no sights at all. And that just comes with

00:46:18.210 --> 00:46:20.329
a lot of practice, and it comes with good body

00:46:20.329 --> 00:46:23.550
mechanics. So I completely agree. I can see the

00:46:23.550 --> 00:46:25.909
argument for minimal sights or no sights on a

00:46:25.909 --> 00:46:30.090
gun. I think legally that maybe puts you in a

00:46:30.090 --> 00:46:32.110
handicapped position because then they start

00:46:32.110 --> 00:46:34.530
talking. Let's say you have a very motivated

00:46:34.530 --> 00:46:37.170
district attorney who starts questioning things

00:46:37.170 --> 00:46:40.170
like, well, how good is your vision, sir? And,

00:46:40.230 --> 00:46:42.690
you know, were you actually able to see the front

00:46:42.690 --> 00:46:44.530
sight? Well, if you focused on the front sight

00:46:44.530 --> 00:46:47.949
and the target went out of focus, are you sure

00:46:47.949 --> 00:46:50.429
that that guy was still a threat? Exactly. I

00:46:50.429 --> 00:46:52.570
understand all that. But I also remember I did

00:46:52.570 --> 00:46:56.010
have an opportunity to train with some probation

00:46:56.010 --> 00:46:58.750
officers and some sheriff's department people

00:46:58.750 --> 00:47:02.440
in a different state. And they basically had,

00:47:02.460 --> 00:47:05.400
you know, drawing from their right hip, for example,

00:47:05.400 --> 00:47:07.280
which is where they were carrying their 9mm,

00:47:07.460 --> 00:47:11.400
drawing it, really just barely pivoting it, not

00:47:11.400 --> 00:47:15.179
even moving the pistol forward, and firing with

00:47:15.179 --> 00:47:17.820
the pistol actually cocked over about 30 or 40

00:47:17.820 --> 00:47:20.239
degrees to the right -hand side. Just literally

00:47:20.239 --> 00:47:24.360
draw, fire two rounds at a target, turn two rounds

00:47:24.360 --> 00:47:26.800
at another target. Did they hit him? Oh, absolutely.

00:47:27.179 --> 00:47:29.559
And these are stomach shots of like, if you're

00:47:29.559 --> 00:47:31.440
being surrounded by a gang or something like

00:47:31.440 --> 00:47:33.840
that, and you need to draw and drop multiple

00:47:33.840 --> 00:47:37.340
targets rapidly. And I was fine with that. And

00:47:37.340 --> 00:47:40.159
that was literally, that was just point. That's

00:47:40.159 --> 00:47:44.219
the old Chuck Taylor speed rock method. Yeah.

00:47:44.260 --> 00:47:46.599
I remember that. Yeah. And if you don't know

00:47:46.599 --> 00:47:48.300
who Chuck Taylor is, look him up. Great book.

00:47:48.360 --> 00:47:51.420
He was one of the earlier, probably well -known,

00:47:51.420 --> 00:47:54.360
you know, trainers out there. Okay. So you had

00:47:54.360 --> 00:47:57.260
a... Just looking at the clock here, we have

00:47:57.260 --> 00:47:59.139
about 10 more minutes because we'd like to state,

00:47:59.239 --> 00:48:01.820
and dear listeners, we do like to keep this under

00:48:01.820 --> 00:48:04.539
an hour. And I didn't mention it before, but

00:48:04.539 --> 00:48:07.440
you know what? We also keep this podcast clean.

00:48:07.659 --> 00:48:12.159
Any mistakes in linguistics that we... engage

00:48:12.159 --> 00:48:16.880
in during the podcast are edited out so you can.

00:48:17.739 --> 00:48:20.519
It is safe for women and children. Absolutely.

00:48:21.400 --> 00:48:25.760
But you wanted to cover another firearm that

00:48:25.760 --> 00:48:27.820
you think is a good value proposition. What was

00:48:27.820 --> 00:48:30.199
that? Yeah, I was walking through some of the...

00:48:31.639 --> 00:48:34.199
stores recently and i basically came across you

00:48:34.199 --> 00:48:36.260
know what if you just wanted to have fun and

00:48:36.260 --> 00:48:38.900
learn the basics of handgun safety and so forth

00:48:38.900 --> 00:48:41.159
and there are a couple of things that are out

00:48:41.159 --> 00:48:42.880
there that i just thought were of tremendous

00:48:42.880 --> 00:48:47.719
value one is the ruger wrangler which is a single

00:48:47.719 --> 00:48:53.400
action uh sort of like a 1873 sort of a peacemaker

00:48:53.400 --> 00:48:57.079
design in 22 long rifle uh it does not have a

00:48:57.079 --> 00:48:59.440
swing out cylinder it has a loading gate that

00:48:59.440 --> 00:49:02.750
opens on the side And it runs about 200 bucks.

00:49:03.070 --> 00:49:06.289
200, 210 bucks, 220 bucks, somewhere in that

00:49:06.289 --> 00:49:10.849
range. It is made out of... It's obviously a

00:49:10.849 --> 00:49:14.630
steel barrel, and I think the receiver is of

00:49:14.630 --> 00:49:16.809
a slightly lesser material. And then I compare

00:49:16.809 --> 00:49:20.010
that to Ruger's Hire and Single Action .22, which

00:49:20.010 --> 00:49:22.650
is the single six, of which I actually own one

00:49:22.650 --> 00:49:24.969
of the single sixes, which has adjustable sights

00:49:24.969 --> 00:49:27.230
on the front and the back and a whole bunch of

00:49:27.230 --> 00:49:30.070
other very fancy things. It costs around $700.

00:49:30.690 --> 00:49:34.280
But the Wrangler... which I think for most people

00:49:34.280 --> 00:49:37.239
is a tremendously valuable gun. It allows you

00:49:37.239 --> 00:49:39.539
to go out there and shoot six shots at a time,

00:49:39.579 --> 00:49:41.460
and you have to unload each one of the brass

00:49:41.460 --> 00:49:44.099
ones individually. And the advantage there is,

00:49:44.119 --> 00:49:47.400
number one, you're going to slow down. And that's

00:49:47.400 --> 00:49:50.639
one of the reasons why you train initially, like

00:49:50.639 --> 00:49:53.119
when you're teaching people, you train with a

00:49:53.119 --> 00:49:55.940
Voltax gun, because you want them to slow down

00:49:55.940 --> 00:49:59.139
and focus on the essentials. And it's just flat

00:49:59.139 --> 00:50:02.949
out a fun gun to shoot. The Ruger Wrangler, I

00:50:02.949 --> 00:50:05.909
would highly recommend, and it comes in a 6 -shot

00:50:05.909 --> 00:50:10.530
cylinder, which is excellent. They are now also

00:50:10.530 --> 00:50:14.349
making an upgraded version of it. Just came out

00:50:14.349 --> 00:50:16.030
with it. I actually haven't seen one in the stores

00:50:16.030 --> 00:50:18.510
yet, which comes with both the .22 long rifle

00:50:18.510 --> 00:50:20.610
cylinder as well as the .22 Magnum cylinder.

00:50:21.210 --> 00:50:23.349
And I think you can also get adjustable sights

00:50:23.349 --> 00:50:25.969
on it now. And that's going to be around $300.

00:50:26.070 --> 00:50:30.900
I still think at $300 for a... 22 or 22 magnum

00:50:30.900 --> 00:50:33.820
pistol. It is an excellent value, and I would

00:50:33.820 --> 00:50:37.260
highly recommend it. Well, I mean, but put a

00:50:37.260 --> 00:50:39.280
number to it. Let's be objective here. What's

00:50:39.280 --> 00:50:41.159
your score? I think everybody should own one,

00:50:41.219 --> 00:50:42.599
so I'm going to put it really high. I'm going

00:50:42.599 --> 00:50:46.119
to do about an 8, 8 .5. Okay. Yeah, I guess we

00:50:46.119 --> 00:50:48.099
don't really have a linear scale here, do we?

00:50:48.119 --> 00:50:50.980
We have kind of a bit of a logarithmic scale,

00:50:51.079 --> 00:50:53.059
like getting to 10 is going to be hard. Yeah,

00:50:53.139 --> 00:50:56.099
I almost will never go to 10. Okay, and my last

00:50:56.099 --> 00:51:00.619
product for today is, you know, I was going to

00:51:00.619 --> 00:51:03.280
talk about this in the next show, but I'm going

00:51:03.280 --> 00:51:06.559
to move it up. And it goes to the discussion

00:51:06.559 --> 00:51:08.719
about the red dot that we just have, because

00:51:08.719 --> 00:51:10.980
I think that this is germane. I'm going to talk

00:51:10.980 --> 00:51:14.079
about weapon -mounted light. the weapon mounted

00:51:14.079 --> 00:51:18.340
light that i wanted to highlight is the olight

00:51:18.340 --> 00:51:22.039
balder mini the balder mini is a 600 lumen light

00:51:22.039 --> 00:51:24.780
which puts it competitive with other lights in

00:51:24.780 --> 00:51:27.519
its size actually a little bit more the the competitively

00:51:27.519 --> 00:51:29.739
priced i won't mention it but there's another

00:51:29.739 --> 00:51:33.320
fairly popular brand that costs about the same

00:51:33.320 --> 00:51:37.400
is 500 lumens and and let me tell you folks something

00:51:37.400 --> 00:51:40.599
that you may not know Do not, do not, do not

00:51:40.599 --> 00:51:44.039
make a decision on a light based on a small difference

00:51:44.039 --> 00:51:48.119
in lumens. Lumens is, the way people perceive

00:51:48.119 --> 00:51:51.139
light is, we were just talking about logarithmic

00:51:51.139 --> 00:51:53.760
scales, it's a logarithmic scale. The difference

00:51:53.760 --> 00:51:58.019
in perception of a 600 lumen and the difference

00:51:58.019 --> 00:52:00.719
in perception of a 500 lumen light is not the

00:52:00.719 --> 00:52:03.179
percentage that you would arithmetically calculate

00:52:03.179 --> 00:52:05.929
between those two. It's hardly noticeable at

00:52:05.929 --> 00:52:08.710
all. If you want to change the perception of

00:52:08.710 --> 00:52:10.750
the amount of light, you have to change it by

00:52:10.750 --> 00:52:12.670
quite a bit. Same thing goes with noise, which

00:52:12.670 --> 00:52:16.090
is something that my day job requires expertise

00:52:16.090 --> 00:52:20.730
in. So a 600 lumen light, its big brother, the

00:52:20.730 --> 00:52:24.010
Balder S, is an 800 lumen light. It's physically

00:52:24.010 --> 00:52:27.449
larger, and I would say not worth the extra size

00:52:27.449 --> 00:52:30.730
because... The size of the Balder Mini allows

00:52:30.730 --> 00:52:33.909
it to be mounted and stay flush with a greater

00:52:33.909 --> 00:52:36.210
range of guns because it's shorter. Does it use

00:52:36.210 --> 00:52:38.929
the same battery? I don't know whether it uses...

00:52:38.929 --> 00:52:42.150
Okay, let's back up here. I don't know the capacity

00:52:42.150 --> 00:52:45.409
of the battery. The way that Olight does their

00:52:45.409 --> 00:52:47.989
batteries is they have a magnetically mounted

00:52:47.989 --> 00:52:52.190
charger that really works very well because it's

00:52:52.190 --> 00:52:55.389
a 360 -degree charger. It can mount any way you

00:52:55.389 --> 00:52:58.510
like. I don't know what the battery life is.

00:52:58.570 --> 00:53:00.530
So there is that to consider. But then again,

00:53:00.769 --> 00:53:04.269
the light is not, unlike a red dot, it may not

00:53:04.269 --> 00:53:06.710
constantly be on. It's only going to be on when

00:53:06.710 --> 00:53:09.630
you tell it to. The other thing, why does it

00:53:09.630 --> 00:53:11.670
try back to the discussion about the red dot?

00:53:12.010 --> 00:53:15.429
We can have a conversation later about the validity

00:53:15.429 --> 00:53:17.789
or the need to have a weapon -mounted light or

00:53:17.789 --> 00:53:20.170
use a handheld light, because I think that by

00:53:20.170 --> 00:53:22.670
itself is a separate topic that maybe we'll cover

00:53:22.670 --> 00:53:25.460
when we have one of our training guests on. But

00:53:25.460 --> 00:53:28.119
at the same time, it also has a laser. Now, the

00:53:28.119 --> 00:53:30.699
competition in the same price range does not

00:53:30.699 --> 00:53:32.980
include the laser. And you might think, well,

00:53:33.079 --> 00:53:36.219
why do I need a laser if I've already got sights

00:53:36.219 --> 00:53:39.059
or fiber optic sight, if I already have a red

00:53:39.059 --> 00:53:41.400
dot, if I have something like that? The reason

00:53:41.400 --> 00:53:43.880
that you would want a laser on a combination

00:53:43.880 --> 00:53:46.900
of a laser and a light is under the assumption

00:53:46.900 --> 00:53:50.179
that you haven't gone through all the training

00:53:50.179 --> 00:53:53.829
necessary. to become thoroughly confident when

00:53:53.829 --> 00:53:55.949
you're faced with an actual threat in a real

00:53:55.949 --> 00:53:59.130
-life situation. And I have seen this work with

00:53:59.130 --> 00:54:03.929
novice shooters, that having the dot on the target

00:54:03.929 --> 00:54:06.869
becomes the thing that you focus on. Not just

00:54:06.869 --> 00:54:09.869
through the optical red dot, if you so choose

00:54:09.869 --> 00:54:11.750
to put that on your gun, but let's say you don't,

00:54:11.750 --> 00:54:13.909
for reasons that you can mention were perfectly

00:54:13.909 --> 00:54:16.840
valid, which it doesn't fit. in the holster you

00:54:16.840 --> 00:54:19.739
want anymore the thing has become larger it's

00:54:19.739 --> 00:54:22.639
an added expense but having the laser on there

00:54:22.639 --> 00:54:25.219
and putting the light and the laser on the target

00:54:25.219 --> 00:54:28.219
does two things it helps disorient the guy looking

00:54:28.219 --> 00:54:30.300
at you particularly i mean obviously this is

00:54:30.300 --> 00:54:31.599
going to be when it's dark because that's when

00:54:31.599 --> 00:54:34.019
it matters but these things are bright enough

00:54:34.019 --> 00:54:37.260
that even in daylight the light can be disorienting

00:54:37.260 --> 00:54:40.699
and buy you time which is important but putting

00:54:40.699 --> 00:54:44.460
that laser on the target allows you to have you

00:54:44.460 --> 00:54:46.559
know maybe not the perfect aim point but a good

00:54:46.559 --> 00:54:50.039
enough aim point that that becomes the focal

00:54:50.039 --> 00:54:52.840
point and you no longer have to worry about as

00:54:52.840 --> 00:54:55.460
much about body positioning about whether you're

00:54:55.460 --> 00:54:57.780
holding the gun perfectly maybe you have a hand

00:54:57.780 --> 00:54:59.960
that's out of commission and now you're doing

00:54:59.960 --> 00:55:02.719
it one hand you're doing it off hand it allows

00:55:02.719 --> 00:55:05.820
you to get on target quicker with effective shots

00:55:05.820 --> 00:55:08.559
and that's the reason i think that a laser i

00:55:08.559 --> 00:55:10.730
don't In other words, I don't think there's a

00:55:10.730 --> 00:55:13.070
downside to it. I think there's only upsides.

00:55:13.190 --> 00:55:16.570
I don't think it makes it worse for an experienced

00:55:16.570 --> 00:55:19.449
shooter. I think it makes it better for the inexperienced

00:55:19.449 --> 00:55:22.110
shooter. And admittedly, a lot of people in our

00:55:22.110 --> 00:55:24.230
audience just don't get the time to shoot often

00:55:24.230 --> 00:55:27.110
enough. That's true. It's expensive. And to me,

00:55:27.110 --> 00:55:33.510
that combination of cost and the light and the

00:55:33.510 --> 00:55:36.789
laser, to me, it's a nine. Straight up nine.

00:55:37.519 --> 00:55:41.599
So we haven't got to 10 yet, but it's a 9. Do

00:55:41.599 --> 00:55:43.320
you have anything else you want to cover, Ken?

00:55:43.599 --> 00:55:46.300
No, I think this will be good for this episode.

00:55:46.960 --> 00:55:50.860
And therefore, we will conclude this one. I'll

00:55:50.860 --> 00:55:53.880
tell our listeners that we're going to have our

00:55:53.880 --> 00:55:57.059
first guest, which is going to discuss the value

00:55:57.059 --> 00:55:59.679
proposition of training and why training is such

00:55:59.679 --> 00:56:03.659
a valuable opportunity and why it's a good investment.

00:56:04.079 --> 00:56:06.159
That's going to be on our very next episode.

00:56:07.079 --> 00:56:10.119
And that show should be coming up in the next

00:56:10.119 --> 00:56:12.860
couple weeks. We're still working out the availability

00:56:12.860 --> 00:56:16.360
of our guests to talk to us. And then that will

00:56:16.360 --> 00:56:19.440
be posted to all the same podcast aggregators.

00:56:19.539 --> 00:56:21.920
If you follow the Facebook page, you can look

00:56:21.920 --> 00:56:25.099
us up at Frugal Firearms Podcast. If you look

00:56:25.099 --> 00:56:27.920
in Facebook, that's where we have links to every

00:56:27.920 --> 00:56:30.039
site that we're on. And we're on pretty much

00:56:30.039 --> 00:56:32.739
every aggregator now. The big ones, of course,

00:56:32.800 --> 00:56:35.280
and even some... Ones that I had never heard

00:56:35.280 --> 00:56:37.980
of and are less popular, but if that's the podcast

00:56:37.980 --> 00:56:40.380
aggregator you use, then no matter which one

00:56:40.380 --> 00:56:42.500
it is, please leave us a comment, leave us a

00:56:42.500 --> 00:56:46.340
like. Don't leave us a dislike, but if you have

00:56:46.340 --> 00:56:48.260
critical comments, you can leave those there

00:56:48.260 --> 00:56:53.260
or you can email them directly to us at frugalfirearmspodcast

00:56:53.260 --> 00:56:56.320
at gmail .com. Again, frugalfirearmspodcast at

00:56:56.320 --> 00:57:00.360
gmail .com. Love to get your input. If you have

00:57:00.360 --> 00:57:02.280
a product that you would like to highlight on

00:57:02.280 --> 00:57:05.039
the show, contact us. If you're interested in

00:57:05.039 --> 00:57:08.159
advertising opportunities, contact us. We're

00:57:08.159 --> 00:57:11.179
open 24 -7. Well, we don't read email 24 -7,

00:57:11.219 --> 00:57:13.199
but you can always contact us and we'll get right

00:57:13.199 --> 00:57:15.639
back to you. Either you can address things to

00:57:15.639 --> 00:57:18.280
either myself, Craig, or to my partner, Ken,

00:57:18.420 --> 00:57:21.559
or just to either of us. And we'll monitor that

00:57:21.559 --> 00:57:24.639
and be very responsive because we're tailoring

00:57:24.639 --> 00:57:26.639
this to you. We're tailoring this to the person

00:57:26.639 --> 00:57:29.500
who doesn't have unlimited money and wants to

00:57:29.500 --> 00:57:32.250
spend it wisely. Absolutely. Thank you for your

00:57:32.250 --> 00:57:34.289
time. Ken, any closing comments? Nope. Thank

00:57:34.289 --> 00:57:36.989
you for listening, and we will talk to you again

00:57:36.989 --> 00:57:38.309
soon. Thank you. Thanks much.