We're geeking out. Yeah, but those are costly
and I'm not talking about those. I happen to
love First Focal Plane. I also love First Focal
Plane because this is the Frugal Firearms podcast
and both are FFP. Welcome to episode one of the
Fugle Firearms Podcast. I'm Craig. I'm here with
my co -host, Ken, and we are here to talk about
value in the shooting industry. All the stuff
that you want to put on your guns, but in an
affordable manner. All of us have bills to pay.
I have a lot of bills to pay. Ken, do you have
any bills to pay? Absolutely. Ken, what sort
of bills do you pay? You got your mortgages.
You got your student loans for not me personally,
but for others. Yeah, you're too old to have
student loans. Yeah, that's just probably true.
But no, there are definitely all sorts of things
coming up. If you maintain more than one residence,
you have multiple property taxes and insurance
and just about everything else. Oh, so you're
one of those rich guys that has multiple residences,
huh? I have. Two residences, that is true, but
very frugally done on both sides, I would like
to point out. Yeah, I'll substantiate that. The
idea here, guys, is that you are listening to
a podcast that is going to try to save you that
hard -earned money so you can do things like
buy food or buy gas or pay your mortgage or help
your kids with school or just stay out of debt.
But we all love guns and we all love shooting.
We just can't afford all the stuff that we want
to put on our guns. Whether it be that optic
that costs as much as a new car, whether it be
ammunition that costs more than a gallon of milk
per round, what we're trying to do is we're trying
to bring you awareness of those things that are
going to let you go out and have fun and let
you experience shooting at a reasonable cost.
Who's this show not for, Ken? People who have
more money than sense. Yeah, and also people
who have institutional money to buy the guns
that they use. If you're a special forces type
guy, if you're a law enforcement type guy, and
you've got a budget that, as far as you're concerned,
is essentially unlimited, you might get some
pointers from this show, but you're probably
not picking your gear. This is for the guy who
has to pay for his own stuff. And I'm not saying
anything bad. about all those honored people
out there who protect us both locally and overseas.
But the reality is that most of us have to choose
between do we put that new scope on our gun,
do we buy that next gun, or do we make other
choices? And this is the show to help you make
smart choices so you can have both. So what are
our guidelines and our philosophy here, Ken?
Well, we want to look out into the market space.
We want to bring to you examples, both from our
personal as well as from what's available in
the industry, where we believe there's exceptional
value, where a person can get a product or a
firearm or whatever it might be that basically
meets the goal. Perhaps it's not up to a wartime
standard of crawling through the mud for six
months or something like that. But for the average
individual who just has basically average needs,
it will be more than fit the bill. Yep. And we
talked about in episode zero. And by the way,
did you notice I just said episode zero? Yes,
there is an episode zero that will be posted.
That one is the collector's edition. of the Fugitive
Firearms Podcast because that was our first attempt
at this, and this being attempt number two, but
it is episode one, so our first official podcast,
if you will. And we hope you subscribe, by the
way, through your podcast aggregator, whether
that be iTunes, whether it be Spotify, or any
of the other services that are out there. Please
leave us a thumbs up. Please leave us a good
review because it does help more people become
aware of the podcast. Little disclaimer for you
guys. Is this show giving legal advice, Ken?
Absolutely not. Why not? Because we are not lawyers.
What you hear here is basically our personal
opinions. And if you need legal advice, who will
we send you to? Your local lawyer who knows your
local laws, who knows not only your state laws,
but anything that would be. uh in your municipality
that that matters in terms of of owning carrying
employing guns because you know what that stuff's
kind of dry and boring and we don't want to talk
about it and we're not qualified to talk about
it so if you take something uh away from this
show and you get the wrong idea who's that on
you That is correct. So what else do we want
to do in this show? We want to keep it concise.
We're going to aim for not more than about 45
minutes in a show, certainly never more than
an hour, because you have other things to do.
Probably going out and earning money, frankly.
And we're also going to provide you in future
shows, we have a list of companies lined up that
we're going to be talking to. So for this show,
it's going to be myself and Ken talking. For
the first few shows, that's the way it's going
to be. Once we have our partners lined up, we're
going to be talking to various leaders in the
industry, leadership in terms of value, not necessarily
in terms of the best of the best, but the best
that people can afford. So we're going to be
having those people on for probably 15 or 20
-minute segments so you can hear from them why
they think that their companies are value leaders
in the industries that they belong to, whether
that be in firearms themselves, whether it be
in optics, whether it be in training, whether
it be in cleaning gear, whether it be in other
types of accessories that go on your guns. various
types of furniture, various types of people who
provide services. And the services can be everywhere
from a person who tunes up guns or coats them,
or a person who simply brings value to your gun,
makes it something that you're happy using, that
gives you pride and gives you joy, and maybe
makes your gun a conversation piece for others
at the range. Because that's how we get enjoyment
out of our guns, isn't it? getting them out of
the safe, getting them out into the field, getting
them to the square range, whether it be out hunting,
whether it be showing your kids or showing new
shooters, showing your friends. That's how we
really experience guns and broaden this perspective
of other people who otherwise would be maybe
negative on guns. They get to experience it in
a positive manner, but we only do that. by having
the guns out there being used. So affordable
ammunition is a big part of that. We're going
to talk about that today. Affordable guns are
a big part of that. Affordable accessories, things
that make things easier for people to shoot and
more enjoyable to shoot. That's what we're after.
You do not have to spend a couple thousand dollars
on an optic to enjoy a gun. You do not have to
spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars on a trigger
to enjoy a gun. You don't have to spend dollars
per round to enjoy a gun. What you do have to
do is you have to get out and use it. One of
the topics today that we're going to talk about
is training. We're going to get into that shortly,
though. For our products that we're going to
be covering, we're going to have a value score.
The value score is going to explain, in our personal
opinion, whether we think it's a good investment
or not. Now, you're not going to hear a lot of
low value scores in this show. Why? Because the
philosophy of the show is we're not here to dime
out companies that we think are doing a poor
job. Why would that be? Because our opinion is
that, okay, there's obviously companies out there
that just care about the bottom line and nothing
else. But I'm an engineer by profession. And
I know that most engineers really want to put
out a good product because that's the thing that
animates them, that keeps them interested in
what they do. And the ability to put out a good
product is important. And if you put out a product
that's marginal, you put out a product that's
flawed, and all you get is trolled and destroyed
on the internet, and your business suffers as
a result. People can take that very personally.
So what we're doing with companies where we find
that there's less than perfection, things that
are even against a value proposition, not something
we'd recommend, we're not throwing them under
the bus. We're not going to bring people on the
show that we feel don't represent value, and
we're not going to pull a 60 Minutes on them
and assassinate them in front of our crowd. What
we are going to do is we're going to work with
those companies and try to help them improve
their products so they can get to that point
of offering value. And then we'll have them on
the show. So you're not going to hear a lot of
low scores. No, and our scores are going to be
a 1 to 10 scale. Right. One being the lowest
and the 10 showing the highest amount of value.
So that's basically what we're going to be doing.
That'll give us the best understanding of the
utility, the quality, and just the dollar value
of it. But when we look at value, though, we
might have different perspectives. We talked
about this in Episode 0 a little bit. We did,
yes. Yeah, my idea of value and Ken's idea of
value might differ slightly. Now, what would
those differences be? Well, you know, we have
ancillary examples all over the place. hotels,
you could view it that way. I'm interested in
a safe place to park my car, a clean room, a
comfortable bed, and a nice shower at the low
cost. You once described to me an adequate hotel
room was one that was safe and dark at night.
Pretty much, yes. And darkness is usually achievable
unless you're north of the Arctic Circle in summer.
And for me, value might be A view from the 50th
floor. So there are differences in opinions on
value. And by the way, we understand that our
listeners have different ideas on value as well.
To give a classic example, Aimpoint might be
the company that you think is value and that
I might not. I don't necessarily want to spend
the kind of money that they need for their optics,
but there are legitimate users out there who
think that they're a fantastic value because
they offer the quality and consistency. So going
ahead, we're going to start assigning values,
but Ken and I may not agree on what those value
scores are because we have our own perspectives
as do you. Indeed. Indeed. So this week's topics,
one thing we're going to talk about, and as I
mentioned, this isn't all just about firearms,
even though it is called the Frugal Firearms
Podcast. It's things that enable frugally and
responsibly shooting. We're going to talk about
insurance. And something that we think that now
that Kerry is becoming, constitutional Kerry
is about to, you know, become the majority opinion
across the states. And even in countries, countries,
I shouldn't have said countries, in counties
and states where previously it wasn't as permissive
as it was before because of some recent court
findings. Now, I think most of the country has
gone to a shall issue. perspective. It really
appears to go in that way. Correct. I mean, there
are some states putting up some roadblocks to
that. You have the typical candidates of New
York, New Jersey, even California, who are not
taking the most recent Bruin decision that came
out of the United States Supreme Court this past
year, about six months ago or so, who are basically
putting up every possible way that they can possibly
hinder your constitutional right to self -defense,
the right to keep and bear arms. And I've noticed,
too, that in California, where Ken and I both
live, there's now proposals to increase gun and
ammunition taxes to confiscatory levels such
that even if they can't get their way in the
courts, they can backdoor their way to achieve
their goals by making shooting simply prohibitively
expensive. Now, To cut to the chase, a lot of
our viewers who don't live in California might
think we're idiots for living in California.
But again, it's a value proposition. And for
us, there are values of being near family. My
employment, let's say the employer I have wouldn't
need me in one of the plain states. It just wouldn't
make sense for what I do. You would not, no.
Yes. So there are reasons, even if you think
that we're not very smart for sticking around
in a state that's so... hostile to gun ownership.
I'll tell you this, I know people who've moved
to other states. and thought that they would
escape their problems, and their problems are
just chasing them there. That's correct. Sometimes
it's better to stand and fight. Yeah, and you
have to understand, although right now California
is definitely leaning left, I mean, this at one
point in time was Reagan country. This was a
conservative state. And there are still, in my
estimation, about 40 % are pretty solidly conservative
in this state, and 60 % have... have swung to
the other extreme. And that may change. I think
it will, perhaps over time, as people become
just a little bit more aware of reality. Well,
we hope that's the case. But if it's not the
case, then, you know, it goes back to my earlier
point about get people out shooting. And, you
know, an interesting idea here. I live and Ken
lives in San Diego County. We both belong to
the San Diego County Gunners. And their perspective
is that they're apolitical. They are a single
-issue organization. That single issue is Second
Amendment rights. So they invite the left and
the right equally. Now, is it more populated
with people from the right? Of course it is.
But at the same time, what you'll find is that
everyone has a right to self -defense. And you
could argue that those who fight against... 2a
or other reasonable forms of self -defense have
abdicated that right and i wouldn't take up that
argument with anyone who said that because i
respect their opinions but when it comes right
down to it everyone should have a basic fundamental
right to self -defense and maybe that's the way
you bring some of those people in and incrementally
get them to where you want them to be you know
i have friends who are perfectly honorable People,
they just happen to have a different perspective
than I do on politics, but they all believe in
the Second Amendment and they believe in the
right to self -defense. And I think one of the
things that we can probably all do as firearms
owners is take an opportunity at least a couple
times a year, if not more, to invite people who've
never fired a gun. Take them to the range. Sure.
In fact, our organization in San Diego promotes
opportunities to mentor new shooters at local
shooting ranges on a regular basis. And you could
go work a couple hours and really change someone's
perspective. And then, you know, maybe over time,
this is how we get to where we want to be. So
I mentioned insurance. So why would insurance
be a... topic for this show. Concealed carry
insurance. Concealed carry insurance specifically
because as more and more states are constitutional
carry and of those other states, you know, permits
are becoming easier and easier to get in those
that still require it. Is carry insurance a good
idea? Some would, most people don't have it.
Most people don't have it because most people
don't think they're ever going to need it. But
along the same lines, most people are never going
to actually need the firearm they're carrying
either. Most police officers will never draw
their weapon in anger or in necessity, I should
say. Well, it depends. Of course, if you're in
certain places, you're probably drawing it weekly
or daily. That's true. But that's not, yeah,
you're right. That's not most of them. But the
fact of the matter is that if you draw your firearm
in anger or if you draw your firearm even with
the supposition that something's going to happen,
very likely you're going to end up in court.
Because what happens? You scare someone off.
You know, the criminals have cell phones too.
And the thought that the criminals don't call
the cops, that's wrong. They do. And they will
call and say that you were a person threatening
them. And the first person who calls probably
owns the narrative. when the police arrive. They're
oftentimes given deference on the situation.
That's true. That's right. So I would say, in
my personal opinion, and again, your opinion
can be registered at frugalfirearmspodcast at
gmail .com. Again, frugalfirearmspodcast at gmail
.com. That the likelihood of needing your firearm
and the likelihood of needing carry insurance
are equal, are exactly equal. Because when that
day comes, you're going to need legal representation.
Absolutely. And navigating a system that you
don't understand. So is the best thing to do
to look in the phone book or the virtual phone
book as it is nowadays? It's not the time to
do it. Not the time. No, it's not. You want to
have that card in your wallet. You want to know
what to say to the police. You want to know how
to say it to the police. You want to know how
to control the scene after something happens.
You want to be able to articulate only a certain
amount and not articulate too much because most
people try to say too much. Right. So what do
you use, Ken? I am a member of the USCCA, the
United States Concealed Carry Association. There
are a few, a handful, I think about five or six
nationwide insurance companies that are out there.
There are comparisons that you can look up between
what each one represents. I picked USCCA because
of the fact that they were an organization that
appears to meet my particular needs. They come
out with a magazine, a very good magazine. I
actually enjoy it very much. It comes out, I
think, about 10 times a year. The price is reasonable.
It can cover me and my family with basically,
I think, any legal weapon. The price... I look
at it as being like a few pennies over a dollar
a day. And there are other companies that offer
slightly different protection. And, Craig, what
do you use? I use CCW Safe. Now, why would Ken
and I choose something different? Because when
we each read the fine print, we each see different
things in that fine print. In my case, I'm not
saying anything bad about USCCA or the choices
that Ken makes. I found that in my circumstance,
I was a little concerned about USCCA's approach
to certain problems in terms of how cases are
pled and so on. Some of the coverages are different.
So I chose CCW Safe. I think you can actually
have multiple ones, too, although Craig and I
were talking about that earlier. I mean, if you
had the money, you could probably have both.
Yeah, and again, but we're not lawyers, so we
don't know. We're not lawyers, so we don't know.
And there could be advantages or disadvantages
to such an approach. If you're spending, let's
just throw a number out and say $500 a year on
insurance. You could buy a new gun for $500.
So why would that be considered? value proposition.
So I guess the reason why I think spending about
$500 a year for personal insurance on something
I hope to never use is the same reason I do it
for my house. I hope I anticipate that I'm never
going to have to say my house burned down or
was damaged in an earthquake or any number of
things. I had a worker fall off the roof when
they were fixing something. I have insurance
because I need to protect my assets, and my assets
are things that I've literally worked my entire
life for. And I know that judges can come after
you. And if they find you guilty of something,
they can take your house and they can pretty
much take everything. Take your 401k, take everything.
And all of that needs to be protected against
because that is literally what I'm going to be,
what I'm planning on relying on for the rest
of my life. So the insurance of $500 a year.
is a cost of doing business. It's a cost of remaining
safe. It's also, it gives me a peace of mind.
And that's very important. A place you can go,
if you haven't seen this already, at concealedcarry
.com. Again, Concealed Carry. There is an excellent
site there. You can pull up a table that was
last updated in August of 22, so it's reasonably
recent, that lays out in very simple terms what
type of coverage there are, costs, whether it
actually is insurance or not, because some of
these are not literally insurance according to
the laws of different states, whether civil damages
are included, whether appeals are included. whether
any type of legal weapon is included, whether
it's valid in all 50 states or not, whether or
not there are 24 -hour emergency numbers. All
these different elements are laid out for you.
Their table happens to contain seven different
companies, and it has links to each one of them
that you can get. So you can look at it, see
what makes sense for you, follow those links,
and please, please do consider getting carry
insurance, particularly if you are in a situation
where you're a constitutional carry state. And
let's be honest, you haven't gone through the
training to understand what to do in an actual
shooting. There are plenty. If you take a look
at Active Self -Protection, the John Correa site,
and look at his YouTube channel, and look at
all the different content that's there. It talks
about what went right and what went wrong in
actual shootings. There's so many examples of
people who get this wrong. And take a good shoot
and turn it into a bad shoot. So don't turn it
into a bad shoot. Educate yourself. Good YouTube
videos out there on what you need to say to an
officer, both when you make the phone call, the
first 911 call, as well as when they show up.
And at some point, fairly certain after that,
you're going to want to say something like, I
will make a full statement on what happened through
my lawyer and then shut up. Yeah. And that's
the hardest thing people can do is to shut up.
Right, right. So now we're talking about survival
in the context of the legal environment. Let's
talk survival rifles for a minute there. Oh,
yeah. What, Ken, would be one of your favorite
survival rifles? And why would you use a survival
rifle? Why would you carry what is usually a
lightweight, low -power gun? What would be the
scenario that you would use that in? It's a backpacking
gun. It's a camping gun. It's a truck gun. Something
you stuff in the back of your car, you hope you
never need type of deal. I have numerous ones.
I kind of have a small collection of them. Some
of them have actually gone up in value quite
a bit since I bought them because they're no
longer made. And some of them are still fairly
common and fairly inexpensive. A lot of them
are based on your typical .22 long rifle, which
is your... Probably the most common round in
the entire world. It's a good round for survival.
I wouldn't want to go up against Kodiak Bear
if I were stuck on Kodiak Island with that. But
nonetheless, in most situations, it would allow
you to survive. You could get a rabbit or something
like that to keep yourself alive until you were
able to extricate yourself from that situation.
But some of the survival rifles that I have,
I was fortunate enough a number of years ago
to pick up a Springfield M6. It's a .410 over
a, in my example, a .22 long rifle. It was originally
designed for the United States Air Force and
came in a couple of different versions. One was
in blue steel and one was in stainless steel.
I've mentioned this before. If a gun comes in
blue steel and stainless steel and it's only
a few dollars more, I almost always will buy
it in stainless steel. They're still available
on the used market. The other ones that I have
and I've actually enjoyed quite a bit are the
Chiapa Little Badger, which comes in, I think,
three different calibers and .22 long rifle,
which is what I have mine in. It comes in .17
Magnum, I think, and also in .22 Magnum. These
are the three calibers available. Great little
gun. Super lightweight. Fun little thing to accessorize.
Turn it into all sorts of accurate. Just all
in all, probably one of my favorite guns to accessorize.
You can buy them for like around $200. I think
they would be a great project gun for a new shooter
to build themselves a survival rifle for a Boy
Scout or somebody like that who'd be interested
in that. The other one that's very common is
what used to be made by Charter Arms is now made
by Henry, which is the AR -7. That's right. And
I have one of those AR -7s, and I've got to join
you on that one because that, to me, as a backpack
gun, it does take a little bit to put it together
because it comes in a broken -down state. But
it floats. But it floats. If you happen to be
a boater, and I'm not, but a fantastically fun
little gun. It does take a little bit of breaking
in to make it reliable, in my experience. Well,
yours is an Armalite, isn't it? No, mine's the
Charter Arms flavor. And I don't know how much
Henry has changed things in the design. I know
that now it holds more magazines in the buttstock
than it used to. Two instead of one. Yeah, mine
was a one. But it still is a fantastically fun
little gun and easy. Another one that is actually,
I think, is off people's radar. We're talking
about Henry again, right? Yeah, Henry. Oh, the
Henry mini -bolt. Mini -bolt, mini -bolt, that's
right. Stainless steel. Exactly. And you might
think, well, that's a kid's gun, but to tell
you the truth, it'll take home a rabbit. It'll
take home something that, and you know what?
people will say bad things about 22s. The numbers
are that 22s are probably more lethal than people
think to begin with. Oh, far more, yeah. And
honestly, if you really think that a 22 isn't
lethal, then I'm waiting for the first person
who wants to stand downrange from me when I'm
shooting a 22 in their direction. I don't think
I'm going to see many hands go up. Why? Because
it still is, you know, it can get the job done
when maybe you don't have another option. Another
example that I saw recently at this year's SHOT
Show that I thought, to me, was fantastic. I'm
not even sure if I would say it's maybe the new
standard bearer. By the way, it's not the Ruger
10 -22, but it does use the Ruger 10 -22 magazine.
It's the Winchester Wildcat. Very light, ergonomically
superior, and just a fantastic gun. I have yet
to shoot it, so I have to qualify fantastic gun
in what I think it's going to be. Comes in different
finishes in terms of woodstock or fiberglass
or a polymer stock. Comes in different patterns
if you want something camouflaged, for example.
But it does use the 1022 magazine, which makes
me think that, I guess, Ruger's patent on that
design must have worn out years ago. And now
other companies can use that. Probably, because
the 1022 has been out since the early 1960s,
I believe. I don't, yeah. I'm not much of a gun
historian, so I don't know how long it's been
out, but it's been out a while for certain. A
survival gun that doesn't... Now, if you're the
kind of person who can afford a short -barreled
AR, throw it in a backpack, and that is your
survival gun, God love you, friend. I think that's
a fantastic idea, too. It's obviously much more
versatile, but for those of us who have never
really thought along the lines of having something...
other than, let's say, a deer rifle or a full
-size AR, having a trunk gun that is a .22, I
think, is essentially mandatory. Another thing
that I wanted to point out today, talking optics,
I mentioned last time that we're going to touch
on optics. And I'm going to talk about, just
for a moment, one of my favorite companies, Athlon.
which is A -T -H -L -O -N. They make everything
from top to bottom in terms of quality and price
points. A couple items I wanted to point out
that I have personal experience with. The Talos
series of LPVOs is a second focal plane, low
power scope. designed ostensibly for the AR.
Why do I like it? Because it offers an excellent
eye box, and I don't want to get too technical
on this show. We talk about things like eye relief,
the size of the eye box, exit pupil. so on and
so forth. I have compared that optic directly
with other LVPOs and found that the forgiveness
that you get with a large eye box and essentially
the area you can put your head and still get
a good image is superior to the competition.
The optics are very flat, and by that I mean
that when you look across, if you scan the scope,
what you shouldn't see is the image distorting
edge to edge in a way that makes it look like
it's a... what they call either barrel or pincushion
distortion. Those are terms really borrowed from
the photography world. And it is an SFP though,
which is second focal plane. Now, what does that
mean? If you don't know, that means that the
reticle does not change dimensionally proportion
to the zoom. A second focal plane scope is only
accurate in terms of its markings at the maximum
magnification, which in this case is 4x. So basically
you're saying that when you zoom a scope, second
focal plane, the reticle, the crosshairs, whatever
markings are on it, they're going to remain fixed.
They remain fixed. They remain in focus, but
they do not change in size. Whereas first focal
plane, because the reticle is at a point in the
scope where the... image converges for the first
time that will change proportional to the zoom
function so as you zoom in you go from a three
power to a nine power you're not only zooming
the image of what you're aiming at you're also
zooming in on the crosshair exactly there are
actual dual plane scopes but they're very expensive
and the dual plane scope contains elements of
both first and second focal planes I think that's
made by U .S. Optics and maybe one or two other
companies. We're geeking out. Yeah, but those
are costly, and I'm not talking about those.
I happen to love first focal plane. I also love
first focal plane because this is the Frugal
Firearms podcast, and both are FFP. But the fact
of the matter is that first focal planes are
usually more expensive scopes. And let's think
practicality here. Why, Ken, would I want a second
focal plane in a low -power optic for my AR?
Value and the fact that you can't hit a milk
jug more than 100 yards anyway, so, you know.
You mean me personally? I'm just kidding. It's
you personally. Usually I can hit a milk jug.
I'm just razzing you. Are you talking a full
gallon or a half a gallon? A full gallon. A half
a gallon I'd probably have problems with. But
the fact of the matter is that the distances
that I'm going to employ a one -to -four power
scope, are probably distances where bullet drop
is probably not going to be significant. Out
to 200 or so. You're not talking about enough
bullet drop in the types of shooting that I'm
doing. And remember, dear listeners, I'm about
a 3 MOA shooter. And because of that, I don't
need a 25 -power FFP scope that allows me to
pick. exactly where I'm going to put that hole.
It's just not going to be something that's part
of my reality. It's not part of how I use guns
anyway. It isn't. So I think the second focal
plane, specific shout out to the Athlon Talos
BTR. The other thing, though, that I would say
that now I'm a big EOTech fan. I know that some
people are not because of certain problems EOTech
has had in their military contracts. Understood.
But I've had nothing but excellent customer service
from EOTech. But I tell you that I don't necessarily
think that they are the ones that would make
the 3X magnifier I would want. My favorite, independent
of price, independent of price, is the Athlon
Midas 3 -Power. So that's one that folds in front
of the... Exactly, yeah. That magnifier, to me,
is optically superior and price is right on point.
Now, we're not going to get into a lot of talking
specific prices here because, well, With the
current economy and inflation, we never quite
know what we're going to end up with. And we
also don't want to give you a price that maybe
for some reason you can't get either at your
local store or availability and so on and so
forth. But I would encourage people to go look
at the Midas magnifier if they want a good magnifier.
Right. And one of the things that we should point
out, particularly as it relates to firearms,
is firearms on the left coast, I'll call it,
out here in California on the left coast, typically
speaking, are $100 more expensive than if you
were to cross over into Nevada or Arizona or
Utah or any of the... eastern states with exceptions
obviously being the typical new england states
of new york and you know new jersey and so forth
but yeah there's definitely a uh i guess because
of all of the additional requirements that the
state puts on it um a lot of the dealers they
have to compensate for in in the price on what
they're able to do so yeah we're not going to
talk prices but If something's of value here,
it's going to be of value across the U .S. Anywhere.
Anywhere. Yeah. And I mentioned in the first
show, I'll give them a shout -out again, by the
way. They're not sponsoring the show. This is
a real endorsement because I find real value
in gun .deals. It's a website, wikiarms .com,
are places to look to find the best deals on
the thing you want. And I will tell you from
personal experience, if you can't get the thing
you want locally, I'm not saying don't patronize
the local guy. Yeah, patronize the local guy.
guy. But make that FFL work for a living and
make him import that thing you want. Find it
on gunbroker .com. Find it on gun .deals. Find
it on wiki arms. Find it on grab a gun and get
that gun in your hands and get it out to the
range and show it to your friends because they're
going to see your enthusiasm. They're going to
love the fact that you like that product. We
have time for one more product tonight. What
do you think we cover the Smith & Wesson M &P
Shield tonight? The M &P Shield. M &P Shield
came out a few years ago, and they now have a
second generation. I think a lot of the M &P
is military and police, just so you know. So
Smith & Wesson, which is a company that's been
around about 150 years, military and police,
and they have this compact shield. The 1 .0 version,
which is what I have, it's a single stack. I
have it in 9mm, and there are a couple of versions
of it. There's a California version of it, and
there's also a... Well, I guess 49, 48, other
state version of it. And oddly enough, I actually
like the California version of it. The California
version has a little pop -up flag. Loaded chamber
indicator. That's right. Yeah, loaded chamber
indicator. Because the people in Sacramento,
Ken, are trying to keep you safe. Oh, true. That's
right. Yeah, I feel so much safer. Yes. But,
yeah, oddly enough, a lot of the M &Ps, and I
have some older ones, other calibers and stuff
that I have, and they basically have a hole on
the top. We have to look down to see if there's
a brass basically inside the chamber. And the
little pop -up indicator I actually like because
it's tactile. You can see it and you can feel
it. the middle of the night, you know, in the
dark type of deal, you instantly know whether
there's a loaded round in the chamber or not.
So I like it. Single stack is what's available.
So I think it's seven rounds, eight with one
in the chamber. They make an eight round for
it, too. I have the 1 .0 also, and they make
an eight round. Yeah. That's the one with a little
bit of a finger extension. Still legal in your
10 round limit states. Right. The next one, the
2 .0 version, is not available in California.
I think that's a double stack or a staggered
stack, and they've gone up to a 12 -round capacity
or something like that. I'm not sure, yeah. Well,
it's unobtainium in California unless you buy
it from a law enforcement officer who doesn't
want his gun anymore. I guess the only problem
I have with it is the version we have does have
the thumb safety. Does. Which I think is of dubious
value. Yeah, you either like it or you don't.
I actually do like the thumb safety, too, oddly
enough. But, yes, I know some who, you don't
have to use it if you don't want to use the thumb
safety. Right. But, yeah, obviously, yeah. I
guess it's not a bad thing to have there. Not
a bad thing. If you leave it off. It's very small,
and if you know it's there. Well, that's the
problem. It's very small, and it's hard to engage.
It is hard to engage or disengage. Or disengage,
as it were. Yes. Which could be a more important
thing. Right. And how many people, if you've
heard the term, You'll spend the rest of your
life trying to take your safety off. Well, think
about that for a minute, because I've fallen
victim to that, too, at a couple of training
exercises where, oh, the gun doesn't shoot. Well,
that's because I haven't developed being a Glock
guy. And I will admit that I am a well -invested
Glock guy. the idea of dropping the safety on
that gun just for some reason doesn't feel natural.
Where on a 1911, it feels completely natural.
I don't know why, but that is the reality of
it. So anything else we want to cover tonight,
Ken? No, I suppose we'd like to hear from our
listeners, and they can start writing things
down in the comments area or sending us email,
and tell us what they'd like us to talk about.
Because, I mean, Craig and I have been involved
with firearms now for, 40 years probably. And
we have a wide range of experience. We enjoy
the shooting sports. We've done most everything
at one time or another. And we have opinions
on a lot of things and would love to hear. what
you'd like us to talk about. Indeed, and how
do people get a hold of us? Well, we have a Gmail
account, and Greg, I'll let you... We do, and
that is frugalfirearmspodcast, all one word,
frugalfirearmspodcast at gmail .com. And you
can either just send it to myself, Kip Craig,
C -R -A -I -G, not Greg, or Ken, or both of us.
Like I said, questions, comments, criticisms,
because criticism can be a gift, right? Sure.
As long as it's constructive. If you troll us,
then we're probably not going to really spend
a lot of time responding. And if you are a manufacturer,
if you make accessories, if you make guns themselves,
if you make anything that relates to the firearm
industry. With an emphasis on value. With an
emphasis on value, then you are a potential guest
on this show. If you're interested in sponsoring
the shows, reach out to us because eventually
that will become important. It is not important
yet, but it will be. And those who get in early
will obviously reap the benefits of being in
early. Or if you want to be a guest on the show
for any other reason because you think that you
have legitimacy in the training industry or other
support industries, then reach out to us as well.
Because sustainability of this show is really
predicated on getting those people who have opportunities
to represent value out in front of the listeners.
So this is your forum. That's the focus point.
If that's what you think you are and you can
prove that. In about a 15 or 20 minute segment
during our show, we want you on the show. So
that's all we have for you tonight. And we'll
look forward to seeing you next time on the Frugal
Firearms Podcast. Absolutely.