WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.960 We're geeking out. Yeah, but those are costly 00:00:02.960 --> 00:00:05.299 and I'm not talking about those. I happen to 00:00:05.299 --> 00:00:07.980 love First Focal Plane. I also love First Focal 00:00:07.980 --> 00:00:10.160 Plane because this is the Frugal Firearms podcast 00:00:10.160 --> 00:00:38.179 and both are FFP. Welcome to episode one of the 00:00:38.179 --> 00:00:41.200 Fugle Firearms Podcast. I'm Craig. I'm here with 00:00:41.200 --> 00:00:44.340 my co -host, Ken, and we are here to talk about 00:00:44.340 --> 00:00:47.880 value in the shooting industry. All the stuff 00:00:47.880 --> 00:00:50.119 that you want to put on your guns, but in an 00:00:50.119 --> 00:00:52.479 affordable manner. All of us have bills to pay. 00:00:52.600 --> 00:00:55.359 I have a lot of bills to pay. Ken, do you have 00:00:55.359 --> 00:00:57.439 any bills to pay? Absolutely. Ken, what sort 00:00:57.439 --> 00:01:00.030 of bills do you pay? You got your mortgages. 00:01:00.030 --> 00:01:03.549 You got your student loans for not me personally, 00:01:03.689 --> 00:01:06.150 but for others. Yeah, you're too old to have 00:01:06.150 --> 00:01:08.689 student loans. Yeah, that's just probably true. 00:01:09.430 --> 00:01:12.010 But no, there are definitely all sorts of things 00:01:12.010 --> 00:01:14.730 coming up. If you maintain more than one residence, 00:01:15.030 --> 00:01:19.189 you have multiple property taxes and insurance 00:01:19.189 --> 00:01:21.349 and just about everything else. Oh, so you're 00:01:21.349 --> 00:01:23.790 one of those rich guys that has multiple residences, 00:01:23.790 --> 00:01:27.000 huh? I have. Two residences, that is true, but 00:01:27.000 --> 00:01:30.040 very frugally done on both sides, I would like 00:01:30.040 --> 00:01:33.140 to point out. Yeah, I'll substantiate that. The 00:01:33.140 --> 00:01:35.980 idea here, guys, is that you are listening to 00:01:35.980 --> 00:01:38.219 a podcast that is going to try to save you that 00:01:38.219 --> 00:01:40.099 hard -earned money so you can do things like 00:01:40.099 --> 00:01:44.500 buy food or buy gas or pay your mortgage or help 00:01:44.500 --> 00:01:47.859 your kids with school or just stay out of debt. 00:01:48.099 --> 00:01:50.599 But we all love guns and we all love shooting. 00:01:51.129 --> 00:01:53.629 We just can't afford all the stuff that we want 00:01:53.629 --> 00:01:56.730 to put on our guns. Whether it be that optic 00:01:56.730 --> 00:01:59.950 that costs as much as a new car, whether it be 00:01:59.950 --> 00:02:03.329 ammunition that costs more than a gallon of milk 00:02:03.329 --> 00:02:06.989 per round, what we're trying to do is we're trying 00:02:06.989 --> 00:02:09.310 to bring you awareness of those things that are 00:02:09.310 --> 00:02:11.689 going to let you go out and have fun and let 00:02:11.689 --> 00:02:15.009 you experience shooting at a reasonable cost. 00:02:15.490 --> 00:02:19.069 Who's this show not for, Ken? People who have 00:02:19.069 --> 00:02:22.349 more money than sense. Yeah, and also people 00:02:22.349 --> 00:02:25.330 who have institutional money to buy the guns 00:02:25.330 --> 00:02:29.210 that they use. If you're a special forces type 00:02:29.210 --> 00:02:31.949 guy, if you're a law enforcement type guy, and 00:02:31.949 --> 00:02:35.210 you've got a budget that, as far as you're concerned, 00:02:35.349 --> 00:02:37.689 is essentially unlimited, you might get some 00:02:37.689 --> 00:02:39.469 pointers from this show, but you're probably 00:02:39.469 --> 00:02:42.150 not picking your gear. This is for the guy who 00:02:42.150 --> 00:02:44.050 has to pay for his own stuff. And I'm not saying 00:02:44.050 --> 00:02:47.759 anything bad. about all those honored people 00:02:47.759 --> 00:02:51.360 out there who protect us both locally and overseas. 00:02:51.659 --> 00:02:56.159 But the reality is that most of us have to choose 00:02:56.159 --> 00:02:58.879 between do we put that new scope on our gun, 00:02:59.039 --> 00:03:01.979 do we buy that next gun, or do we make other 00:03:01.979 --> 00:03:04.419 choices? And this is the show to help you make 00:03:04.419 --> 00:03:08.280 smart choices so you can have both. So what are 00:03:08.280 --> 00:03:10.240 our guidelines and our philosophy here, Ken? 00:03:10.520 --> 00:03:12.960 Well, we want to look out into the market space. 00:03:13.710 --> 00:03:16.469 We want to bring to you examples, both from our 00:03:16.469 --> 00:03:18.490 personal as well as from what's available in 00:03:18.490 --> 00:03:21.830 the industry, where we believe there's exceptional 00:03:21.830 --> 00:03:25.629 value, where a person can get a product or a 00:03:25.629 --> 00:03:27.909 firearm or whatever it might be that basically 00:03:27.909 --> 00:03:32.069 meets the goal. Perhaps it's not up to a wartime 00:03:32.069 --> 00:03:35.469 standard of crawling through the mud for six 00:03:35.469 --> 00:03:37.650 months or something like that. But for the average 00:03:37.650 --> 00:03:42.250 individual who just has basically average needs, 00:03:42.530 --> 00:03:45.990 it will be more than fit the bill. Yep. And we 00:03:45.990 --> 00:03:48.389 talked about in episode zero. And by the way, 00:03:48.409 --> 00:03:50.449 did you notice I just said episode zero? Yes, 00:03:50.449 --> 00:03:52.590 there is an episode zero that will be posted. 00:03:52.629 --> 00:03:56.569 That one is the collector's edition. of the Fugitive 00:03:56.569 --> 00:04:00.069 Firearms Podcast because that was our first attempt 00:04:00.069 --> 00:04:03.069 at this, and this being attempt number two, but 00:04:03.069 --> 00:04:05.349 it is episode one, so our first official podcast, 00:04:05.530 --> 00:04:08.250 if you will. And we hope you subscribe, by the 00:04:08.250 --> 00:04:10.789 way, through your podcast aggregator, whether 00:04:10.789 --> 00:04:13.990 that be iTunes, whether it be Spotify, or any 00:04:13.990 --> 00:04:15.969 of the other services that are out there. Please 00:04:15.969 --> 00:04:17.790 leave us a thumbs up. Please leave us a good 00:04:17.790 --> 00:04:20.829 review because it does help more people become 00:04:20.829 --> 00:04:24.790 aware of the podcast. Little disclaimer for you 00:04:24.790 --> 00:04:27.649 guys. Is this show giving legal advice, Ken? 00:04:28.110 --> 00:04:31.889 Absolutely not. Why not? Because we are not lawyers. 00:04:32.069 --> 00:04:35.170 What you hear here is basically our personal 00:04:35.170 --> 00:04:37.990 opinions. And if you need legal advice, who will 00:04:37.990 --> 00:04:41.110 we send you to? Your local lawyer who knows your 00:04:41.110 --> 00:04:44.189 local laws, who knows not only your state laws, 00:04:44.410 --> 00:04:47.930 but anything that would be. uh in your municipality 00:04:47.930 --> 00:04:51.610 that that matters in terms of of owning carrying 00:04:51.610 --> 00:04:55.569 employing guns because you know what that stuff's 00:04:55.569 --> 00:04:57.529 kind of dry and boring and we don't want to talk 00:04:57.529 --> 00:04:59.709 about it and we're not qualified to talk about 00:04:59.709 --> 00:05:02.970 it so if you take something uh away from this 00:05:02.970 --> 00:05:06.610 show and you get the wrong idea who's that on 00:05:06.610 --> 00:05:10.160 you That is correct. So what else do we want 00:05:10.160 --> 00:05:11.899 to do in this show? We want to keep it concise. 00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:14.759 We're going to aim for not more than about 45 00:05:14.759 --> 00:05:16.860 minutes in a show, certainly never more than 00:05:16.860 --> 00:05:19.120 an hour, because you have other things to do. 00:05:19.259 --> 00:05:21.699 Probably going out and earning money, frankly. 00:05:22.480 --> 00:05:25.279 And we're also going to provide you in future 00:05:25.279 --> 00:05:28.639 shows, we have a list of companies lined up that 00:05:28.639 --> 00:05:31.439 we're going to be talking to. So for this show, 00:05:31.459 --> 00:05:33.399 it's going to be myself and Ken talking. For 00:05:33.399 --> 00:05:34.959 the first few shows, that's the way it's going 00:05:34.959 --> 00:05:39.220 to be. Once we have our partners lined up, we're 00:05:39.220 --> 00:05:41.120 going to be talking to various leaders in the 00:05:41.120 --> 00:05:44.740 industry, leadership in terms of value, not necessarily 00:05:44.740 --> 00:05:47.620 in terms of the best of the best, but the best 00:05:47.620 --> 00:05:49.670 that people can afford. So we're going to be 00:05:49.670 --> 00:05:52.069 having those people on for probably 15 or 20 00:05:52.069 --> 00:05:55.269 -minute segments so you can hear from them why 00:05:55.269 --> 00:05:57.970 they think that their companies are value leaders 00:05:57.970 --> 00:06:01.170 in the industries that they belong to, whether 00:06:01.170 --> 00:06:03.350 that be in firearms themselves, whether it be 00:06:03.350 --> 00:06:05.290 in optics, whether it be in training, whether 00:06:05.290 --> 00:06:08.129 it be in cleaning gear, whether it be in other 00:06:08.129 --> 00:06:10.970 types of accessories that go on your guns. various 00:06:10.970 --> 00:06:13.490 types of furniture, various types of people who 00:06:13.490 --> 00:06:17.589 provide services. And the services can be everywhere 00:06:17.589 --> 00:06:21.050 from a person who tunes up guns or coats them, 00:06:21.110 --> 00:06:24.149 or a person who simply brings value to your gun, 00:06:24.250 --> 00:06:27.170 makes it something that you're happy using, that 00:06:27.170 --> 00:06:29.970 gives you pride and gives you joy, and maybe 00:06:29.970 --> 00:06:32.069 makes your gun a conversation piece for others 00:06:32.069 --> 00:06:34.149 at the range. Because that's how we get enjoyment 00:06:34.149 --> 00:06:36.740 out of our guns, isn't it? getting them out of 00:06:36.740 --> 00:06:39.180 the safe, getting them out into the field, getting 00:06:39.180 --> 00:06:41.660 them to the square range, whether it be out hunting, 00:06:41.800 --> 00:06:44.740 whether it be showing your kids or showing new 00:06:44.740 --> 00:06:47.680 shooters, showing your friends. That's how we 00:06:47.680 --> 00:06:50.720 really experience guns and broaden this perspective 00:06:50.720 --> 00:06:53.360 of other people who otherwise would be maybe 00:06:53.360 --> 00:06:55.980 negative on guns. They get to experience it in 00:06:55.980 --> 00:06:59.399 a positive manner, but we only do that. by having 00:06:59.399 --> 00:07:02.660 the guns out there being used. So affordable 00:07:02.660 --> 00:07:04.360 ammunition is a big part of that. We're going 00:07:04.360 --> 00:07:06.800 to talk about that today. Affordable guns are 00:07:06.800 --> 00:07:08.779 a big part of that. Affordable accessories, things 00:07:08.779 --> 00:07:11.139 that make things easier for people to shoot and 00:07:11.139 --> 00:07:13.300 more enjoyable to shoot. That's what we're after. 00:07:13.480 --> 00:07:17.079 You do not have to spend a couple thousand dollars 00:07:17.079 --> 00:07:20.180 on an optic to enjoy a gun. You do not have to 00:07:20.180 --> 00:07:22.339 spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars on a trigger 00:07:22.339 --> 00:07:25.959 to enjoy a gun. You don't have to spend dollars 00:07:25.959 --> 00:07:29.000 per round to enjoy a gun. What you do have to 00:07:29.000 --> 00:07:30.560 do is you have to get out and use it. One of 00:07:30.560 --> 00:07:32.000 the topics today that we're going to talk about 00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:33.600 is training. We're going to get into that shortly, 00:07:33.740 --> 00:07:36.680 though. For our products that we're going to 00:07:36.680 --> 00:07:39.319 be covering, we're going to have a value score. 00:07:39.699 --> 00:07:43.720 The value score is going to explain, in our personal 00:07:43.720 --> 00:07:46.600 opinion, whether we think it's a good investment 00:07:46.600 --> 00:07:48.620 or not. Now, you're not going to hear a lot of 00:07:48.620 --> 00:07:50.779 low value scores in this show. Why? Because the 00:07:50.779 --> 00:07:52.980 philosophy of the show is we're not here to dime 00:07:52.980 --> 00:07:55.439 out companies that we think are doing a poor 00:07:55.439 --> 00:08:00.670 job. Why would that be? Because our opinion is 00:08:00.670 --> 00:08:04.209 that, okay, there's obviously companies out there 00:08:04.209 --> 00:08:06.709 that just care about the bottom line and nothing 00:08:06.709 --> 00:08:10.529 else. But I'm an engineer by profession. And 00:08:10.529 --> 00:08:13.029 I know that most engineers really want to put 00:08:13.029 --> 00:08:15.230 out a good product because that's the thing that 00:08:15.230 --> 00:08:17.230 animates them, that keeps them interested in 00:08:17.230 --> 00:08:20.170 what they do. And the ability to put out a good 00:08:20.170 --> 00:08:23.990 product is important. And if you put out a product 00:08:23.990 --> 00:08:26.269 that's marginal, you put out a product that's 00:08:26.269 --> 00:08:29.160 flawed, and all you get is trolled and destroyed 00:08:29.160 --> 00:08:31.980 on the internet, and your business suffers as 00:08:31.980 --> 00:08:34.399 a result. People can take that very personally. 00:08:34.779 --> 00:08:37.440 So what we're doing with companies where we find 00:08:37.440 --> 00:08:40.320 that there's less than perfection, things that 00:08:40.320 --> 00:08:43.399 are even against a value proposition, not something 00:08:43.399 --> 00:08:45.360 we'd recommend, we're not throwing them under 00:08:45.360 --> 00:08:47.080 the bus. We're not going to bring people on the 00:08:47.080 --> 00:08:50.600 show that we feel don't represent value, and 00:08:50.600 --> 00:08:52.700 we're not going to pull a 60 Minutes on them 00:08:52.700 --> 00:08:55.559 and assassinate them in front of our crowd. What 00:08:55.559 --> 00:08:57.860 we are going to do is we're going to work with 00:08:57.860 --> 00:08:59.399 those companies and try to help them improve 00:08:59.399 --> 00:09:01.679 their products so they can get to that point 00:09:01.679 --> 00:09:04.220 of offering value. And then we'll have them on 00:09:04.220 --> 00:09:05.720 the show. So you're not going to hear a lot of 00:09:05.720 --> 00:09:07.879 low scores. No, and our scores are going to be 00:09:07.879 --> 00:09:10.799 a 1 to 10 scale. Right. One being the lowest 00:09:10.799 --> 00:09:12.700 and the 10 showing the highest amount of value. 00:09:13.100 --> 00:09:15.960 So that's basically what we're going to be doing. 00:09:16.100 --> 00:09:18.820 That'll give us the best understanding of the 00:09:18.820 --> 00:09:23.059 utility, the quality, and just the dollar value 00:09:23.059 --> 00:09:27.340 of it. But when we look at value, though, we 00:09:27.340 --> 00:09:28.879 might have different perspectives. We talked 00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:31.000 about this in Episode 0 a little bit. We did, 00:09:31.159 --> 00:09:34.779 yes. Yeah, my idea of value and Ken's idea of 00:09:34.779 --> 00:09:37.600 value might differ slightly. Now, what would 00:09:37.600 --> 00:09:41.820 those differences be? Well, you know, we have 00:09:41.820 --> 00:09:47.220 ancillary examples all over the place. hotels, 00:09:47.220 --> 00:09:50.139 you could view it that way. I'm interested in 00:09:50.139 --> 00:09:53.980 a safe place to park my car, a clean room, a 00:09:53.980 --> 00:09:58.179 comfortable bed, and a nice shower at the low 00:09:58.179 --> 00:10:01.980 cost. You once described to me an adequate hotel 00:10:01.980 --> 00:10:04.080 room was one that was safe and dark at night. 00:10:04.340 --> 00:10:07.799 Pretty much, yes. And darkness is usually achievable 00:10:07.799 --> 00:10:12.879 unless you're north of the Arctic Circle in summer. 00:10:13.240 --> 00:10:17.340 And for me, value might be A view from the 50th 00:10:17.340 --> 00:10:20.940 floor. So there are differences in opinions on 00:10:20.940 --> 00:10:24.399 value. And by the way, we understand that our 00:10:24.399 --> 00:10:27.360 listeners have different ideas on value as well. 00:10:27.659 --> 00:10:31.559 To give a classic example, Aimpoint might be 00:10:31.559 --> 00:10:34.000 the company that you think is value and that 00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:37.850 I might not. I don't necessarily want to spend 00:10:37.850 --> 00:10:39.909 the kind of money that they need for their optics, 00:10:40.049 --> 00:10:42.129 but there are legitimate users out there who 00:10:42.129 --> 00:10:44.289 think that they're a fantastic value because 00:10:44.289 --> 00:10:48.230 they offer the quality and consistency. So going 00:10:48.230 --> 00:10:50.190 ahead, we're going to start assigning values, 00:10:50.429 --> 00:10:52.809 but Ken and I may not agree on what those value 00:10:52.809 --> 00:10:54.830 scores are because we have our own perspectives 00:10:54.830 --> 00:10:58.809 as do you. Indeed. Indeed. So this week's topics, 00:10:59.009 --> 00:11:01.090 one thing we're going to talk about, and as I 00:11:01.090 --> 00:11:03.750 mentioned, this isn't all just about firearms, 00:11:03.870 --> 00:11:05.529 even though it is called the Frugal Firearms 00:11:05.529 --> 00:11:08.450 Podcast. It's things that enable frugally and 00:11:08.450 --> 00:11:10.750 responsibly shooting. We're going to talk about 00:11:10.750 --> 00:11:14.070 insurance. And something that we think that now 00:11:14.070 --> 00:11:16.889 that Kerry is becoming, constitutional Kerry 00:11:16.889 --> 00:11:20.190 is about to, you know, become the majority opinion 00:11:20.190 --> 00:11:24.389 across the states. And even in countries, countries, 00:11:24.669 --> 00:11:27.330 I shouldn't have said countries, in counties 00:11:27.330 --> 00:11:31.309 and states where previously it wasn't as permissive 00:11:31.309 --> 00:11:34.929 as it was before because of some recent court 00:11:34.929 --> 00:11:38.450 findings. Now, I think most of the country has 00:11:38.450 --> 00:11:42.720 gone to a shall issue. perspective. It really 00:11:42.720 --> 00:11:44.860 appears to go in that way. Correct. I mean, there 00:11:44.860 --> 00:11:47.679 are some states putting up some roadblocks to 00:11:47.679 --> 00:11:51.460 that. You have the typical candidates of New 00:11:51.460 --> 00:11:55.240 York, New Jersey, even California, who are not 00:11:55.240 --> 00:11:57.779 taking the most recent Bruin decision that came 00:11:57.779 --> 00:11:59.759 out of the United States Supreme Court this past 00:11:59.759 --> 00:12:03.080 year, about six months ago or so, who are basically 00:12:03.080 --> 00:12:06.740 putting up every possible way that they can possibly 00:12:07.740 --> 00:12:11.659 hinder your constitutional right to self -defense, 00:12:11.899 --> 00:12:16.100 the right to keep and bear arms. And I've noticed, 00:12:16.179 --> 00:12:21.279 too, that in California, where Ken and I both 00:12:21.279 --> 00:12:24.980 live, there's now proposals to increase gun and 00:12:24.980 --> 00:12:27.559 ammunition taxes to confiscatory levels such 00:12:27.559 --> 00:12:29.879 that even if they can't get their way in the 00:12:29.879 --> 00:12:32.559 courts, they can backdoor their way to achieve 00:12:32.559 --> 00:12:35.659 their goals by making shooting simply prohibitively 00:12:35.659 --> 00:12:38.629 expensive. Now, To cut to the chase, a lot of 00:12:38.629 --> 00:12:40.470 our viewers who don't live in California might 00:12:40.470 --> 00:12:42.509 think we're idiots for living in California. 00:12:42.830 --> 00:12:46.669 But again, it's a value proposition. And for 00:12:46.669 --> 00:12:50.610 us, there are values of being near family. My 00:12:50.610 --> 00:12:54.830 employment, let's say the employer I have wouldn't 00:12:54.830 --> 00:12:56.990 need me in one of the plain states. It just wouldn't 00:12:56.990 --> 00:12:58.809 make sense for what I do. You would not, no. 00:12:59.049 --> 00:13:02.850 Yes. So there are reasons, even if you think 00:13:02.850 --> 00:13:04.809 that we're not very smart for sticking around 00:13:04.809 --> 00:13:08.730 in a state that's so... hostile to gun ownership. 00:13:09.210 --> 00:13:11.370 I'll tell you this, I know people who've moved 00:13:11.370 --> 00:13:13.480 to other states. and thought that they would 00:13:13.480 --> 00:13:15.159 escape their problems, and their problems are 00:13:15.159 --> 00:13:17.299 just chasing them there. That's correct. Sometimes 00:13:17.299 --> 00:13:19.940 it's better to stand and fight. Yeah, and you 00:13:19.940 --> 00:13:22.559 have to understand, although right now California 00:13:22.559 --> 00:13:25.419 is definitely leaning left, I mean, this at one 00:13:25.419 --> 00:13:27.620 point in time was Reagan country. This was a 00:13:27.620 --> 00:13:31.440 conservative state. And there are still, in my 00:13:31.440 --> 00:13:35.960 estimation, about 40 % are pretty solidly conservative 00:13:35.960 --> 00:13:40.309 in this state, and 60 % have... have swung to 00:13:40.309 --> 00:13:44.370 the other extreme. And that may change. I think 00:13:44.370 --> 00:13:47.610 it will, perhaps over time, as people become 00:13:47.610 --> 00:13:51.570 just a little bit more aware of reality. Well, 00:13:51.570 --> 00:13:53.629 we hope that's the case. But if it's not the 00:13:53.629 --> 00:13:56.570 case, then, you know, it goes back to my earlier 00:13:56.570 --> 00:13:58.830 point about get people out shooting. And, you 00:13:58.830 --> 00:14:03.429 know, an interesting idea here. I live and Ken 00:14:03.429 --> 00:14:07.049 lives in San Diego County. We both belong to 00:14:07.049 --> 00:14:09.830 the San Diego County Gunners. And their perspective 00:14:09.830 --> 00:14:12.789 is that they're apolitical. They are a single 00:14:12.789 --> 00:14:17.090 -issue organization. That single issue is Second 00:14:17.090 --> 00:14:19.889 Amendment rights. So they invite the left and 00:14:19.889 --> 00:14:22.429 the right equally. Now, is it more populated 00:14:22.429 --> 00:14:24.029 with people from the right? Of course it is. 00:14:24.190 --> 00:14:27.549 But at the same time, what you'll find is that 00:14:27.549 --> 00:14:31.330 everyone has a right to self -defense. And you 00:14:31.330 --> 00:14:34.610 could argue that those who fight against... 2a 00:14:34.610 --> 00:14:37.970 or other reasonable forms of self -defense have 00:14:37.970 --> 00:14:40.590 abdicated that right and i wouldn't take up that 00:14:40.590 --> 00:14:43.169 argument with anyone who said that because i 00:14:43.169 --> 00:14:45.470 respect their opinions but when it comes right 00:14:45.470 --> 00:14:47.669 down to it everyone should have a basic fundamental 00:14:47.669 --> 00:14:49.809 right to self -defense and maybe that's the way 00:14:49.809 --> 00:14:52.090 you bring some of those people in and incrementally 00:14:52.090 --> 00:14:54.570 get them to where you want them to be you know 00:14:54.570 --> 00:14:58.690 i have friends who are perfectly honorable People, 00:14:58.690 --> 00:15:00.730 they just happen to have a different perspective 00:15:00.730 --> 00:15:03.529 than I do on politics, but they all believe in 00:15:03.529 --> 00:15:05.450 the Second Amendment and they believe in the 00:15:05.450 --> 00:15:07.350 right to self -defense. And I think one of the 00:15:07.350 --> 00:15:09.710 things that we can probably all do as firearms 00:15:09.710 --> 00:15:13.929 owners is take an opportunity at least a couple 00:15:13.929 --> 00:15:16.789 times a year, if not more, to invite people who've 00:15:16.789 --> 00:15:19.330 never fired a gun. Take them to the range. Sure. 00:15:19.759 --> 00:15:23.100 In fact, our organization in San Diego promotes 00:15:23.100 --> 00:15:27.500 opportunities to mentor new shooters at local 00:15:27.500 --> 00:15:30.440 shooting ranges on a regular basis. And you could 00:15:30.440 --> 00:15:32.980 go work a couple hours and really change someone's 00:15:32.980 --> 00:15:36.019 perspective. And then, you know, maybe over time, 00:15:36.139 --> 00:15:39.259 this is how we get to where we want to be. So 00:15:39.259 --> 00:15:42.519 I mentioned insurance. So why would insurance 00:15:42.519 --> 00:15:45.759 be a... topic for this show. Concealed carry 00:15:45.759 --> 00:15:48.159 insurance. Concealed carry insurance specifically 00:15:48.159 --> 00:15:51.620 because as more and more states are constitutional 00:15:51.620 --> 00:15:56.019 carry and of those other states, you know, permits 00:15:56.019 --> 00:15:58.899 are becoming easier and easier to get in those 00:15:58.899 --> 00:16:01.659 that still require it. Is carry insurance a good 00:16:01.659 --> 00:16:04.620 idea? Some would, most people don't have it. 00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:07.100 Most people don't have it because most people 00:16:07.100 --> 00:16:09.169 don't think they're ever going to need it. But 00:16:09.169 --> 00:16:11.669 along the same lines, most people are never going 00:16:11.669 --> 00:16:13.610 to actually need the firearm they're carrying 00:16:13.610 --> 00:16:15.769 either. Most police officers will never draw 00:16:15.769 --> 00:16:19.570 their weapon in anger or in necessity, I should 00:16:19.570 --> 00:16:21.490 say. Well, it depends. Of course, if you're in 00:16:21.490 --> 00:16:23.870 certain places, you're probably drawing it weekly 00:16:23.870 --> 00:16:25.830 or daily. That's true. But that's not, yeah, 00:16:25.909 --> 00:16:27.509 you're right. That's not most of them. But the 00:16:27.509 --> 00:16:29.990 fact of the matter is that if you draw your firearm 00:16:29.990 --> 00:16:33.990 in anger or if you draw your firearm even with 00:16:33.990 --> 00:16:35.990 the supposition that something's going to happen, 00:16:36.110 --> 00:16:38.049 very likely you're going to end up in court. 00:16:38.959 --> 00:16:42.200 Because what happens? You scare someone off. 00:16:42.299 --> 00:16:44.259 You know, the criminals have cell phones too. 00:16:44.440 --> 00:16:47.259 And the thought that the criminals don't call 00:16:47.259 --> 00:16:50.379 the cops, that's wrong. They do. And they will 00:16:50.379 --> 00:16:54.139 call and say that you were a person threatening 00:16:54.139 --> 00:16:57.799 them. And the first person who calls probably 00:16:57.799 --> 00:17:01.000 owns the narrative. when the police arrive. They're 00:17:01.000 --> 00:17:03.320 oftentimes given deference on the situation. 00:17:03.320 --> 00:17:07.119 That's true. That's right. So I would say, in 00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:10.519 my personal opinion, and again, your opinion 00:17:10.519 --> 00:17:13.640 can be registered at frugalfirearmspodcast at 00:17:13.640 --> 00:17:16.460 gmail .com. Again, frugalfirearmspodcast at gmail 00:17:16.460 --> 00:17:20.519 .com. That the likelihood of needing your firearm 00:17:20.519 --> 00:17:23.160 and the likelihood of needing carry insurance 00:17:23.160 --> 00:17:27.470 are equal, are exactly equal. Because when that 00:17:27.470 --> 00:17:30.089 day comes, you're going to need legal representation. 00:17:30.569 --> 00:17:33.670 Absolutely. And navigating a system that you 00:17:33.670 --> 00:17:36.710 don't understand. So is the best thing to do 00:17:36.710 --> 00:17:40.910 to look in the phone book or the virtual phone 00:17:40.910 --> 00:17:43.130 book as it is nowadays? It's not the time to 00:17:43.130 --> 00:17:45.250 do it. Not the time. No, it's not. You want to 00:17:45.250 --> 00:17:47.569 have that card in your wallet. You want to know 00:17:47.569 --> 00:17:50.329 what to say to the police. You want to know how 00:17:50.329 --> 00:17:53.190 to say it to the police. You want to know how 00:17:53.190 --> 00:17:55.930 to control the scene after something happens. 00:17:56.650 --> 00:17:59.950 You want to be able to articulate only a certain 00:17:59.950 --> 00:18:02.430 amount and not articulate too much because most 00:18:02.430 --> 00:18:04.910 people try to say too much. Right. So what do 00:18:04.910 --> 00:18:09.369 you use, Ken? I am a member of the USCCA, the 00:18:09.369 --> 00:18:12.690 United States Concealed Carry Association. There 00:18:12.690 --> 00:18:17.170 are a few, a handful, I think about five or six 00:18:17.170 --> 00:18:21.190 nationwide insurance companies that are out there. 00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:24.779 There are comparisons that you can look up between 00:18:24.779 --> 00:18:28.299 what each one represents. I picked USCCA because 00:18:28.299 --> 00:18:31.339 of the fact that they were an organization that 00:18:31.339 --> 00:18:34.460 appears to meet my particular needs. They come 00:18:34.460 --> 00:18:36.680 out with a magazine, a very good magazine. I 00:18:36.680 --> 00:18:38.720 actually enjoy it very much. It comes out, I 00:18:38.720 --> 00:18:41.839 think, about 10 times a year. The price is reasonable. 00:18:42.039 --> 00:18:46.099 It can cover me and my family with basically, 00:18:46.180 --> 00:18:50.529 I think, any legal weapon. The price... I look 00:18:50.529 --> 00:18:53.769 at it as being like a few pennies over a dollar 00:18:53.769 --> 00:18:56.809 a day. And there are other companies that offer 00:18:56.809 --> 00:18:59.970 slightly different protection. And, Craig, what 00:18:59.970 --> 00:19:03.069 do you use? I use CCW Safe. Now, why would Ken 00:19:03.069 --> 00:19:05.269 and I choose something different? Because when 00:19:05.269 --> 00:19:07.710 we each read the fine print, we each see different 00:19:07.710 --> 00:19:11.009 things in that fine print. In my case, I'm not 00:19:11.009 --> 00:19:14.950 saying anything bad about USCCA or the choices 00:19:14.950 --> 00:19:18.130 that Ken makes. I found that in my circumstance, 00:19:18.250 --> 00:19:22.150 I was a little concerned about USCCA's approach 00:19:22.150 --> 00:19:26.109 to certain problems in terms of how cases are 00:19:26.109 --> 00:19:28.650 pled and so on. Some of the coverages are different. 00:19:29.200 --> 00:19:32.779 So I chose CCW Safe. I think you can actually 00:19:32.779 --> 00:19:34.720 have multiple ones, too, although Craig and I 00:19:34.720 --> 00:19:37.980 were talking about that earlier. I mean, if you 00:19:37.980 --> 00:19:40.539 had the money, you could probably have both. 00:19:40.880 --> 00:19:43.160 Yeah, and again, but we're not lawyers, so we 00:19:43.160 --> 00:19:44.160 don't know. We're not lawyers, so we don't know. 00:19:44.220 --> 00:19:47.359 And there could be advantages or disadvantages 00:19:47.359 --> 00:19:49.759 to such an approach. If you're spending, let's 00:19:49.759 --> 00:19:52.799 just throw a number out and say $500 a year on 00:19:52.799 --> 00:19:55.599 insurance. You could buy a new gun for $500. 00:19:55.960 --> 00:19:59.440 So why would that be considered? value proposition. 00:19:59.799 --> 00:20:03.539 So I guess the reason why I think spending about 00:20:03.539 --> 00:20:07.640 $500 a year for personal insurance on something 00:20:07.640 --> 00:20:10.759 I hope to never use is the same reason I do it 00:20:10.759 --> 00:20:15.430 for my house. I hope I anticipate that I'm never 00:20:15.430 --> 00:20:17.930 going to have to say my house burned down or 00:20:17.930 --> 00:20:21.250 was damaged in an earthquake or any number of 00:20:21.250 --> 00:20:23.490 things. I had a worker fall off the roof when 00:20:23.490 --> 00:20:25.930 they were fixing something. I have insurance 00:20:25.930 --> 00:20:29.609 because I need to protect my assets, and my assets 00:20:29.609 --> 00:20:31.849 are things that I've literally worked my entire 00:20:31.849 --> 00:20:36.259 life for. And I know that judges can come after 00:20:36.259 --> 00:20:39.579 you. And if they find you guilty of something, 00:20:39.680 --> 00:20:41.799 they can take your house and they can pretty 00:20:41.799 --> 00:20:45.420 much take everything. Take your 401k, take everything. 00:20:45.579 --> 00:20:47.180 And all of that needs to be protected against 00:20:47.180 --> 00:20:50.380 because that is literally what I'm going to be, 00:20:50.440 --> 00:20:53.099 what I'm planning on relying on for the rest 00:20:53.099 --> 00:20:57.680 of my life. So the insurance of $500 a year. 00:20:58.200 --> 00:21:01.359 is a cost of doing business. It's a cost of remaining 00:21:01.359 --> 00:21:05.039 safe. It's also, it gives me a peace of mind. 00:21:05.119 --> 00:21:07.400 And that's very important. A place you can go, 00:21:07.420 --> 00:21:10.480 if you haven't seen this already, at concealedcarry 00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:14.700 .com. Again, Concealed Carry. There is an excellent 00:21:14.700 --> 00:21:19.119 site there. You can pull up a table that was 00:21:19.119 --> 00:21:22.660 last updated in August of 22, so it's reasonably 00:21:22.660 --> 00:21:26.839 recent, that lays out in very simple terms what 00:21:26.839 --> 00:21:30.119 type of coverage there are, costs, whether it 00:21:30.119 --> 00:21:32.259 actually is insurance or not, because some of 00:21:32.259 --> 00:21:35.220 these are not literally insurance according to 00:21:35.220 --> 00:21:37.579 the laws of different states, whether civil damages 00:21:37.579 --> 00:21:41.339 are included, whether appeals are included. whether 00:21:41.339 --> 00:21:44.779 any type of legal weapon is included, whether 00:21:44.779 --> 00:21:47.960 it's valid in all 50 states or not, whether or 00:21:47.960 --> 00:21:50.869 not there are 24 -hour emergency numbers. All 00:21:50.869 --> 00:21:52.809 these different elements are laid out for you. 00:21:52.970 --> 00:21:55.170 Their table happens to contain seven different 00:21:55.170 --> 00:21:57.890 companies, and it has links to each one of them 00:21:57.890 --> 00:22:01.069 that you can get. So you can look at it, see 00:22:01.069 --> 00:22:03.049 what makes sense for you, follow those links, 00:22:03.130 --> 00:22:05.670 and please, please do consider getting carry 00:22:05.670 --> 00:22:09.769 insurance, particularly if you are in a situation 00:22:09.769 --> 00:22:12.390 where you're a constitutional carry state. And 00:22:12.390 --> 00:22:14.890 let's be honest, you haven't gone through the 00:22:14.890 --> 00:22:17.869 training to understand what to do in an actual 00:22:17.869 --> 00:22:20.319 shooting. There are plenty. If you take a look 00:22:20.319 --> 00:22:23.619 at Active Self -Protection, the John Correa site, 00:22:23.779 --> 00:22:25.839 and look at his YouTube channel, and look at 00:22:25.839 --> 00:22:27.960 all the different content that's there. It talks 00:22:27.960 --> 00:22:30.619 about what went right and what went wrong in 00:22:30.619 --> 00:22:32.980 actual shootings. There's so many examples of 00:22:32.980 --> 00:22:35.740 people who get this wrong. And take a good shoot 00:22:35.740 --> 00:22:38.200 and turn it into a bad shoot. So don't turn it 00:22:38.200 --> 00:22:42.799 into a bad shoot. Educate yourself. Good YouTube 00:22:42.799 --> 00:22:47.059 videos out there on what you need to say to an 00:22:47.059 --> 00:22:49.640 officer, both when you make the phone call, the 00:22:49.640 --> 00:22:52.900 first 911 call, as well as when they show up. 00:22:53.019 --> 00:22:56.059 And at some point, fairly certain after that, 00:22:56.140 --> 00:22:58.259 you're going to want to say something like, I 00:22:58.259 --> 00:23:00.960 will make a full statement on what happened through 00:23:00.960 --> 00:23:04.960 my lawyer and then shut up. Yeah. And that's 00:23:04.960 --> 00:23:08.579 the hardest thing people can do is to shut up. 00:23:09.299 --> 00:23:12.960 Right, right. So now we're talking about survival 00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:15.819 in the context of the legal environment. Let's 00:23:15.819 --> 00:23:18.519 talk survival rifles for a minute there. Oh, 00:23:18.519 --> 00:23:21.920 yeah. What, Ken, would be one of your favorite 00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:24.119 survival rifles? And why would you use a survival 00:23:24.119 --> 00:23:28.319 rifle? Why would you carry what is usually a 00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:30.779 lightweight, low -power gun? What would be the 00:23:30.779 --> 00:23:33.079 scenario that you would use that in? It's a backpacking 00:23:33.079 --> 00:23:38.069 gun. It's a camping gun. It's a truck gun. Something 00:23:38.069 --> 00:23:40.049 you stuff in the back of your car, you hope you 00:23:40.049 --> 00:23:42.829 never need type of deal. I have numerous ones. 00:23:42.930 --> 00:23:46.390 I kind of have a small collection of them. Some 00:23:46.390 --> 00:23:49.490 of them have actually gone up in value quite 00:23:49.490 --> 00:23:50.769 a bit since I bought them because they're no 00:23:50.769 --> 00:23:53.509 longer made. And some of them are still fairly 00:23:53.509 --> 00:23:56.130 common and fairly inexpensive. A lot of them 00:23:56.130 --> 00:24:00.470 are based on your typical .22 long rifle, which 00:24:00.470 --> 00:24:03.500 is your... Probably the most common round in 00:24:03.500 --> 00:24:07.400 the entire world. It's a good round for survival. 00:24:07.759 --> 00:24:09.920 I wouldn't want to go up against Kodiak Bear 00:24:09.920 --> 00:24:14.500 if I were stuck on Kodiak Island with that. But 00:24:14.500 --> 00:24:18.519 nonetheless, in most situations, it would allow 00:24:18.519 --> 00:24:21.720 you to survive. You could get a rabbit or something 00:24:21.720 --> 00:24:24.380 like that to keep yourself alive until you were 00:24:24.380 --> 00:24:26.700 able to extricate yourself from that situation. 00:24:27.400 --> 00:24:30.460 But some of the survival rifles that I have, 00:24:30.910 --> 00:24:33.150 I was fortunate enough a number of years ago 00:24:33.150 --> 00:24:38.150 to pick up a Springfield M6. It's a .410 over 00:24:38.150 --> 00:24:42.049 a, in my example, a .22 long rifle. It was originally 00:24:42.049 --> 00:24:45.769 designed for the United States Air Force and 00:24:45.769 --> 00:24:48.589 came in a couple of different versions. One was 00:24:48.589 --> 00:24:51.029 in blue steel and one was in stainless steel. 00:24:51.170 --> 00:24:53.329 I've mentioned this before. If a gun comes in 00:24:53.329 --> 00:24:55.670 blue steel and stainless steel and it's only 00:24:55.670 --> 00:24:59.230 a few dollars more, I almost always will buy 00:24:59.230 --> 00:25:01.349 it in stainless steel. They're still available 00:25:01.349 --> 00:25:04.369 on the used market. The other ones that I have 00:25:04.369 --> 00:25:06.769 and I've actually enjoyed quite a bit are the 00:25:06.769 --> 00:25:11.549 Chiapa Little Badger, which comes in, I think, 00:25:11.589 --> 00:25:13.809 three different calibers and .22 long rifle, 00:25:13.970 --> 00:25:17.470 which is what I have mine in. It comes in .17 00:25:17.470 --> 00:25:22.289 Magnum, I think, and also in .22 Magnum. These 00:25:22.289 --> 00:25:24.410 are the three calibers available. Great little 00:25:24.410 --> 00:25:28.210 gun. Super lightweight. Fun little thing to accessorize. 00:25:28.329 --> 00:25:32.130 Turn it into all sorts of accurate. Just all 00:25:32.130 --> 00:25:36.490 in all, probably one of my favorite guns to accessorize. 00:25:36.509 --> 00:25:39.930 You can buy them for like around $200. I think 00:25:39.930 --> 00:25:43.549 they would be a great project gun for a new shooter 00:25:43.549 --> 00:25:46.650 to build themselves a survival rifle for a Boy 00:25:46.650 --> 00:25:48.950 Scout or somebody like that who'd be interested 00:25:48.950 --> 00:25:53.140 in that. The other one that's very common is 00:25:53.140 --> 00:25:55.720 what used to be made by Charter Arms is now made 00:25:55.720 --> 00:25:59.720 by Henry, which is the AR -7. That's right. And 00:25:59.720 --> 00:26:02.640 I have one of those AR -7s, and I've got to join 00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:07.299 you on that one because that, to me, as a backpack 00:26:07.299 --> 00:26:09.740 gun, it does take a little bit to put it together 00:26:09.740 --> 00:26:11.819 because it comes in a broken -down state. But 00:26:11.819 --> 00:26:14.440 it floats. But it floats. If you happen to be 00:26:14.440 --> 00:26:17.980 a boater, and I'm not, but a fantastically fun 00:26:17.980 --> 00:26:20.279 little gun. It does take a little bit of breaking 00:26:20.279 --> 00:26:22.400 in to make it reliable, in my experience. Well, 00:26:22.460 --> 00:26:25.460 yours is an Armalite, isn't it? No, mine's the 00:26:25.460 --> 00:26:28.240 Charter Arms flavor. And I don't know how much 00:26:28.240 --> 00:26:30.460 Henry has changed things in the design. I know 00:26:30.460 --> 00:26:32.779 that now it holds more magazines in the buttstock 00:26:32.779 --> 00:26:35.359 than it used to. Two instead of one. Yeah, mine 00:26:35.359 --> 00:26:38.180 was a one. But it still is a fantastically fun 00:26:38.180 --> 00:26:41.220 little gun and easy. Another one that is actually, 00:26:41.259 --> 00:26:43.539 I think, is off people's radar. We're talking 00:26:43.539 --> 00:26:46.380 about Henry again, right? Yeah, Henry. Oh, the 00:26:46.380 --> 00:26:48.960 Henry mini -bolt. Mini -bolt, mini -bolt, that's 00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:51.859 right. Stainless steel. Exactly. And you might 00:26:51.859 --> 00:26:54.940 think, well, that's a kid's gun, but to tell 00:26:54.940 --> 00:26:56.960 you the truth, it'll take home a rabbit. It'll 00:26:56.960 --> 00:26:59.319 take home something that, and you know what? 00:26:59.869 --> 00:27:03.109 people will say bad things about 22s. The numbers 00:27:03.109 --> 00:27:06.109 are that 22s are probably more lethal than people 00:27:06.109 --> 00:27:08.150 think to begin with. Oh, far more, yeah. And 00:27:08.150 --> 00:27:11.250 honestly, if you really think that a 22 isn't 00:27:11.250 --> 00:27:13.609 lethal, then I'm waiting for the first person 00:27:13.609 --> 00:27:17.130 who wants to stand downrange from me when I'm 00:27:17.130 --> 00:27:19.210 shooting a 22 in their direction. I don't think 00:27:19.210 --> 00:27:21.230 I'm going to see many hands go up. Why? Because 00:27:21.230 --> 00:27:25.210 it still is, you know, it can get the job done 00:27:25.210 --> 00:27:28.319 when maybe you don't have another option. Another 00:27:28.319 --> 00:27:32.180 example that I saw recently at this year's SHOT 00:27:32.180 --> 00:27:35.160 Show that I thought, to me, was fantastic. I'm 00:27:35.160 --> 00:27:37.099 not even sure if I would say it's maybe the new 00:27:37.099 --> 00:27:40.140 standard bearer. By the way, it's not the Ruger 00:27:40.140 --> 00:27:42.839 10 -22, but it does use the Ruger 10 -22 magazine. 00:27:43.460 --> 00:27:47.279 It's the Winchester Wildcat. Very light, ergonomically 00:27:47.279 --> 00:27:50.940 superior, and just a fantastic gun. I have yet 00:27:50.940 --> 00:27:53.880 to shoot it, so I have to qualify fantastic gun 00:27:53.880 --> 00:27:57.980 in what I think it's going to be. Comes in different 00:27:57.980 --> 00:28:00.779 finishes in terms of woodstock or fiberglass 00:28:00.779 --> 00:28:03.740 or a polymer stock. Comes in different patterns 00:28:03.740 --> 00:28:06.220 if you want something camouflaged, for example. 00:28:06.440 --> 00:28:10.380 But it does use the 1022 magazine, which makes 00:28:10.380 --> 00:28:12.420 me think that, I guess, Ruger's patent on that 00:28:12.420 --> 00:28:15.140 design must have worn out years ago. And now 00:28:15.140 --> 00:28:17.480 other companies can use that. Probably, because 00:28:17.480 --> 00:28:21.140 the 1022 has been out since the early 1960s, 00:28:21.140 --> 00:28:23.559 I believe. I don't, yeah. I'm not much of a gun 00:28:23.559 --> 00:28:25.740 historian, so I don't know how long it's been 00:28:25.740 --> 00:28:28.240 out, but it's been out a while for certain. A 00:28:28.240 --> 00:28:31.039 survival gun that doesn't... Now, if you're the 00:28:31.039 --> 00:28:33.599 kind of person who can afford a short -barreled 00:28:33.599 --> 00:28:37.759 AR, throw it in a backpack, and that is your 00:28:37.759 --> 00:28:41.500 survival gun, God love you, friend. I think that's 00:28:41.500 --> 00:28:45.240 a fantastic idea, too. It's obviously much more 00:28:45.240 --> 00:28:47.839 versatile, but for those of us who have never 00:28:47.839 --> 00:28:50.099 really thought along the lines of having something... 00:28:50.509 --> 00:28:53.069 other than, let's say, a deer rifle or a full 00:28:53.069 --> 00:28:57.410 -size AR, having a trunk gun that is a .22, I 00:28:57.410 --> 00:29:00.390 think, is essentially mandatory. Another thing 00:29:00.390 --> 00:29:02.690 that I wanted to point out today, talking optics, 00:29:02.869 --> 00:29:05.470 I mentioned last time that we're going to touch 00:29:05.470 --> 00:29:07.529 on optics. And I'm going to talk about, just 00:29:07.529 --> 00:29:09.609 for a moment, one of my favorite companies, Athlon. 00:29:10.190 --> 00:29:14.369 which is A -T -H -L -O -N. They make everything 00:29:14.369 --> 00:29:17.250 from top to bottom in terms of quality and price 00:29:17.250 --> 00:29:19.849 points. A couple items I wanted to point out 00:29:19.849 --> 00:29:23.190 that I have personal experience with. The Talos 00:29:23.190 --> 00:29:28.670 series of LPVOs is a second focal plane, low 00:29:28.670 --> 00:29:32.069 power scope. designed ostensibly for the AR. 00:29:32.410 --> 00:29:35.869 Why do I like it? Because it offers an excellent 00:29:35.869 --> 00:29:38.069 eye box, and I don't want to get too technical 00:29:38.069 --> 00:29:40.450 on this show. We talk about things like eye relief, 00:29:40.529 --> 00:29:43.039 the size of the eye box, exit pupil. so on and 00:29:43.039 --> 00:29:45.460 so forth. I have compared that optic directly 00:29:45.460 --> 00:29:49.660 with other LVPOs and found that the forgiveness 00:29:49.660 --> 00:29:52.019 that you get with a large eye box and essentially 00:29:52.019 --> 00:29:54.720 the area you can put your head and still get 00:29:54.720 --> 00:29:57.079 a good image is superior to the competition. 00:29:57.839 --> 00:30:00.519 The optics are very flat, and by that I mean 00:30:00.519 --> 00:30:03.920 that when you look across, if you scan the scope, 00:30:04.019 --> 00:30:06.460 what you shouldn't see is the image distorting 00:30:06.460 --> 00:30:09.339 edge to edge in a way that makes it look like 00:30:09.339 --> 00:30:12.289 it's a... what they call either barrel or pincushion 00:30:12.289 --> 00:30:15.069 distortion. Those are terms really borrowed from 00:30:15.069 --> 00:30:18.650 the photography world. And it is an SFP though, 00:30:18.750 --> 00:30:20.589 which is second focal plane. Now, what does that 00:30:20.589 --> 00:30:22.869 mean? If you don't know, that means that the 00:30:22.869 --> 00:30:26.450 reticle does not change dimensionally proportion 00:30:26.450 --> 00:30:30.450 to the zoom. A second focal plane scope is only 00:30:30.450 --> 00:30:35.329 accurate in terms of its markings at the maximum 00:30:35.329 --> 00:30:39.099 magnification, which in this case is 4x. So basically 00:30:39.099 --> 00:30:42.460 you're saying that when you zoom a scope, second 00:30:42.460 --> 00:30:46.480 focal plane, the reticle, the crosshairs, whatever 00:30:46.480 --> 00:30:50.180 markings are on it, they're going to remain fixed. 00:30:50.500 --> 00:30:53.599 They remain fixed. They remain in focus, but 00:30:53.599 --> 00:30:56.059 they do not change in size. Whereas first focal 00:30:56.059 --> 00:30:59.180 plane, because the reticle is at a point in the 00:30:59.180 --> 00:31:02.710 scope where the... image converges for the first 00:31:02.710 --> 00:31:07.789 time that will change proportional to the zoom 00:31:07.789 --> 00:31:10.130 function so as you zoom in you go from a three 00:31:10.130 --> 00:31:12.650 power to a nine power you're not only zooming 00:31:12.650 --> 00:31:15.170 the image of what you're aiming at you're also 00:31:15.170 --> 00:31:18.170 zooming in on the crosshair exactly there are 00:31:18.170 --> 00:31:21.190 actual dual plane scopes but they're very expensive 00:31:21.190 --> 00:31:23.329 and the dual plane scope contains elements of 00:31:23.329 --> 00:31:26.140 both first and second focal planes I think that's 00:31:26.140 --> 00:31:28.259 made by U .S. Optics and maybe one or two other 00:31:28.259 --> 00:31:31.099 companies. We're geeking out. Yeah, but those 00:31:31.099 --> 00:31:32.839 are costly, and I'm not talking about those. 00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:36.180 I happen to love first focal plane. I also love 00:31:36.180 --> 00:31:37.980 first focal plane because this is the Frugal 00:31:37.980 --> 00:31:41.559 Firearms podcast, and both are FFP. But the fact 00:31:41.559 --> 00:31:43.160 of the matter is that first focal planes are 00:31:43.160 --> 00:31:45.799 usually more expensive scopes. And let's think 00:31:45.799 --> 00:31:48.440 practicality here. Why, Ken, would I want a second 00:31:48.440 --> 00:31:51.480 focal plane in a low -power optic for my AR? 00:31:51.779 --> 00:31:54.779 Value and the fact that you can't hit a milk 00:31:54.779 --> 00:31:57.180 jug more than 100 yards anyway, so, you know. 00:31:57.319 --> 00:31:59.460 You mean me personally? I'm just kidding. It's 00:31:59.460 --> 00:32:02.200 you personally. Usually I can hit a milk jug. 00:32:02.279 --> 00:32:03.900 I'm just razzing you. Are you talking a full 00:32:03.900 --> 00:32:05.900 gallon or a half a gallon? A full gallon. A half 00:32:05.900 --> 00:32:08.059 a gallon I'd probably have problems with. But 00:32:08.059 --> 00:32:11.019 the fact of the matter is that the distances 00:32:11.019 --> 00:32:13.500 that I'm going to employ a one -to -four power 00:32:13.500 --> 00:32:17.599 scope, are probably distances where bullet drop 00:32:17.599 --> 00:32:20.599 is probably not going to be significant. Out 00:32:20.599 --> 00:32:23.640 to 200 or so. You're not talking about enough 00:32:23.640 --> 00:32:26.119 bullet drop in the types of shooting that I'm 00:32:26.119 --> 00:32:29.759 doing. And remember, dear listeners, I'm about 00:32:29.759 --> 00:32:33.140 a 3 MOA shooter. And because of that, I don't 00:32:33.140 --> 00:32:36.720 need a 25 -power FFP scope that allows me to 00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:39.319 pick. exactly where I'm going to put that hole. 00:32:39.720 --> 00:32:42.319 It's just not going to be something that's part 00:32:42.319 --> 00:32:44.220 of my reality. It's not part of how I use guns 00:32:44.220 --> 00:32:47.319 anyway. It isn't. So I think the second focal 00:32:47.319 --> 00:32:50.180 plane, specific shout out to the Athlon Talos 00:32:50.180 --> 00:32:52.619 BTR. The other thing, though, that I would say 00:32:52.619 --> 00:32:55.480 that now I'm a big EOTech fan. I know that some 00:32:55.480 --> 00:32:58.220 people are not because of certain problems EOTech 00:32:58.220 --> 00:33:01.339 has had in their military contracts. Understood. 00:33:01.740 --> 00:33:04.619 But I've had nothing but excellent customer service 00:33:04.619 --> 00:33:07.619 from EOTech. But I tell you that I don't necessarily 00:33:07.619 --> 00:33:10.140 think that they are the ones that would make 00:33:10.140 --> 00:33:13.539 the 3X magnifier I would want. My favorite, independent 00:33:13.539 --> 00:33:17.119 of price, independent of price, is the Athlon 00:33:17.119 --> 00:33:21.220 Midas 3 -Power. So that's one that folds in front 00:33:21.220 --> 00:33:25.579 of the... Exactly, yeah. That magnifier, to me, 00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:30.160 is optically superior and price is right on point. 00:33:30.440 --> 00:33:32.759 Now, we're not going to get into a lot of talking 00:33:32.759 --> 00:33:35.589 specific prices here because, well, With the 00:33:35.589 --> 00:33:37.390 current economy and inflation, we never quite 00:33:37.390 --> 00:33:39.650 know what we're going to end up with. And we 00:33:39.650 --> 00:33:41.789 also don't want to give you a price that maybe 00:33:41.789 --> 00:33:44.410 for some reason you can't get either at your 00:33:44.410 --> 00:33:47.289 local store or availability and so on and so 00:33:47.289 --> 00:33:49.769 forth. But I would encourage people to go look 00:33:49.769 --> 00:33:52.730 at the Midas magnifier if they want a good magnifier. 00:33:53.119 --> 00:33:54.579 Right. And one of the things that we should point 00:33:54.579 --> 00:33:56.079 out, particularly as it relates to firearms, 00:33:56.299 --> 00:33:59.660 is firearms on the left coast, I'll call it, 00:33:59.680 --> 00:34:03.460 out here in California on the left coast, typically 00:34:03.460 --> 00:34:06.900 speaking, are $100 more expensive than if you 00:34:06.900 --> 00:34:10.119 were to cross over into Nevada or Arizona or 00:34:10.119 --> 00:34:13.940 Utah or any of the... eastern states with exceptions 00:34:13.940 --> 00:34:16.960 obviously being the typical new england states 00:34:16.960 --> 00:34:19.840 of new york and you know new jersey and so forth 00:34:19.840 --> 00:34:22.980 but yeah there's definitely a uh i guess because 00:34:22.980 --> 00:34:25.920 of all of the additional requirements that the 00:34:25.920 --> 00:34:29.340 state puts on it um a lot of the dealers they 00:34:29.340 --> 00:34:33.400 have to compensate for in in the price on what 00:34:33.400 --> 00:34:35.780 they're able to do so yeah we're not going to 00:34:35.780 --> 00:34:38.190 talk prices but If something's of value here, 00:34:38.309 --> 00:34:41.309 it's going to be of value across the U .S. Anywhere. 00:34:41.449 --> 00:34:43.989 Anywhere. Yeah. And I mentioned in the first 00:34:43.989 --> 00:34:45.610 show, I'll give them a shout -out again, by the 00:34:45.610 --> 00:34:47.349 way. They're not sponsoring the show. This is 00:34:47.349 --> 00:34:50.230 a real endorsement because I find real value 00:34:50.230 --> 00:34:55.050 in gun .deals. It's a website, wikiarms .com, 00:34:55.130 --> 00:34:57.710 are places to look to find the best deals on 00:34:57.710 --> 00:34:59.690 the thing you want. And I will tell you from 00:34:59.690 --> 00:35:02.010 personal experience, if you can't get the thing 00:35:02.010 --> 00:35:04.469 you want locally, I'm not saying don't patronize 00:35:04.469 --> 00:35:06.289 the local guy. Yeah, patronize the local guy. 00:35:06.250 --> 00:35:09.389 guy. But make that FFL work for a living and 00:35:09.389 --> 00:35:13.050 make him import that thing you want. Find it 00:35:13.050 --> 00:35:15.889 on gunbroker .com. Find it on gun .deals. Find 00:35:15.889 --> 00:35:19.429 it on wiki arms. Find it on grab a gun and get 00:35:19.429 --> 00:35:21.630 that gun in your hands and get it out to the 00:35:21.630 --> 00:35:23.849 range and show it to your friends because they're 00:35:23.849 --> 00:35:25.929 going to see your enthusiasm. They're going to 00:35:25.929 --> 00:35:28.610 love the fact that you like that product. We 00:35:28.610 --> 00:35:30.630 have time for one more product tonight. What 00:35:30.630 --> 00:35:33.030 do you think we cover the Smith & Wesson M &P 00:35:33.030 --> 00:35:36.800 Shield tonight? The M &P Shield. M &P Shield 00:35:36.800 --> 00:35:39.980 came out a few years ago, and they now have a 00:35:39.980 --> 00:35:42.320 second generation. I think a lot of the M &P 00:35:42.320 --> 00:35:44.619 is military and police, just so you know. So 00:35:44.619 --> 00:35:46.699 Smith & Wesson, which is a company that's been 00:35:46.699 --> 00:35:49.360 around about 150 years, military and police, 00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:53.760 and they have this compact shield. The 1 .0 version, 00:35:53.900 --> 00:35:56.440 which is what I have, it's a single stack. I 00:35:56.440 --> 00:35:59.079 have it in 9mm, and there are a couple of versions 00:35:59.079 --> 00:36:01.519 of it. There's a California version of it, and 00:36:01.519 --> 00:36:05.139 there's also a... Well, I guess 49, 48, other 00:36:05.139 --> 00:36:08.559 state version of it. And oddly enough, I actually 00:36:08.559 --> 00:36:11.780 like the California version of it. The California 00:36:11.780 --> 00:36:16.670 version has a little pop -up flag. Loaded chamber 00:36:16.670 --> 00:36:18.989 indicator. That's right. Yeah, loaded chamber 00:36:18.989 --> 00:36:21.869 indicator. Because the people in Sacramento, 00:36:22.010 --> 00:36:24.650 Ken, are trying to keep you safe. Oh, true. That's 00:36:24.650 --> 00:36:27.289 right. Yeah, I feel so much safer. Yes. But, 00:36:27.349 --> 00:36:29.849 yeah, oddly enough, a lot of the M &Ps, and I 00:36:29.849 --> 00:36:32.530 have some older ones, other calibers and stuff 00:36:32.530 --> 00:36:35.190 that I have, and they basically have a hole on 00:36:35.190 --> 00:36:38.230 the top. We have to look down to see if there's 00:36:38.230 --> 00:36:41.050 a brass basically inside the chamber. And the 00:36:41.050 --> 00:36:42.829 little pop -up indicator I actually like because 00:36:42.829 --> 00:36:44.829 it's tactile. You can see it and you can feel 00:36:44.829 --> 00:36:46.230 it. the middle of the night, you know, in the 00:36:46.230 --> 00:36:48.510 dark type of deal, you instantly know whether 00:36:48.510 --> 00:36:51.909 there's a loaded round in the chamber or not. 00:36:51.989 --> 00:36:55.050 So I like it. Single stack is what's available. 00:36:55.389 --> 00:36:59.050 So I think it's seven rounds, eight with one 00:36:59.050 --> 00:37:01.989 in the chamber. They make an eight round for 00:37:01.989 --> 00:37:04.070 it, too. I have the 1 .0 also, and they make 00:37:04.070 --> 00:37:06.170 an eight round. Yeah. That's the one with a little 00:37:06.170 --> 00:37:08.349 bit of a finger extension. Still legal in your 00:37:08.349 --> 00:37:13.090 10 round limit states. Right. The next one, the 00:37:13.090 --> 00:37:15.130 2 .0 version, is not available in California. 00:37:15.449 --> 00:37:17.489 I think that's a double stack or a staggered 00:37:17.489 --> 00:37:20.349 stack, and they've gone up to a 12 -round capacity 00:37:20.349 --> 00:37:22.730 or something like that. I'm not sure, yeah. Well, 00:37:22.849 --> 00:37:25.389 it's unobtainium in California unless you buy 00:37:25.389 --> 00:37:28.750 it from a law enforcement officer who doesn't 00:37:28.750 --> 00:37:30.849 want his gun anymore. I guess the only problem 00:37:30.849 --> 00:37:33.050 I have with it is the version we have does have 00:37:33.050 --> 00:37:36.110 the thumb safety. Does. Which I think is of dubious 00:37:36.110 --> 00:37:37.969 value. Yeah, you either like it or you don't. 00:37:37.989 --> 00:37:39.949 I actually do like the thumb safety, too, oddly 00:37:39.949 --> 00:37:42.389 enough. But, yes, I know some who, you don't 00:37:42.389 --> 00:37:43.789 have to use it if you don't want to use the thumb 00:37:43.789 --> 00:37:46.570 safety. Right. But, yeah, obviously, yeah. I 00:37:46.570 --> 00:37:48.449 guess it's not a bad thing to have there. Not 00:37:48.449 --> 00:37:50.769 a bad thing. If you leave it off. It's very small, 00:37:50.849 --> 00:37:52.510 and if you know it's there. Well, that's the 00:37:52.510 --> 00:37:54.889 problem. It's very small, and it's hard to engage. 00:37:54.949 --> 00:37:57.710 It is hard to engage or disengage. Or disengage, 00:37:57.869 --> 00:37:59.949 as it were. Yes. Which could be a more important 00:37:59.949 --> 00:38:03.030 thing. Right. And how many people, if you've 00:38:03.030 --> 00:38:04.710 heard the term, You'll spend the rest of your 00:38:04.710 --> 00:38:08.090 life trying to take your safety off. Well, think 00:38:08.090 --> 00:38:11.409 about that for a minute, because I've fallen 00:38:11.409 --> 00:38:14.050 victim to that, too, at a couple of training 00:38:14.050 --> 00:38:17.190 exercises where, oh, the gun doesn't shoot. Well, 00:38:17.349 --> 00:38:20.230 that's because I haven't developed being a Glock 00:38:20.230 --> 00:38:24.070 guy. And I will admit that I am a well -invested 00:38:24.070 --> 00:38:26.980 Glock guy. the idea of dropping the safety on 00:38:26.980 --> 00:38:29.579 that gun just for some reason doesn't feel natural. 00:38:29.719 --> 00:38:32.219 Where on a 1911, it feels completely natural. 00:38:32.460 --> 00:38:36.019 I don't know why, but that is the reality of 00:38:36.019 --> 00:38:38.820 it. So anything else we want to cover tonight, 00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:42.679 Ken? No, I suppose we'd like to hear from our 00:38:42.679 --> 00:38:44.539 listeners, and they can start writing things 00:38:44.539 --> 00:38:47.019 down in the comments area or sending us email, 00:38:47.239 --> 00:38:50.199 and tell us what they'd like us to talk about. 00:38:50.260 --> 00:38:52.980 Because, I mean, Craig and I have been involved 00:38:52.980 --> 00:38:56.969 with firearms now for, 40 years probably. And 00:38:56.969 --> 00:38:59.590 we have a wide range of experience. We enjoy 00:38:59.590 --> 00:39:03.230 the shooting sports. We've done most everything 00:39:03.230 --> 00:39:05.969 at one time or another. And we have opinions 00:39:05.969 --> 00:39:08.250 on a lot of things and would love to hear. what 00:39:08.250 --> 00:39:10.449 you'd like us to talk about. Indeed, and how 00:39:10.449 --> 00:39:13.269 do people get a hold of us? Well, we have a Gmail 00:39:13.269 --> 00:39:16.210 account, and Greg, I'll let you... We do, and 00:39:16.210 --> 00:39:19.489 that is frugalfirearmspodcast, all one word, 00:39:19.570 --> 00:39:23.730 frugalfirearmspodcast at gmail .com. And you 00:39:23.730 --> 00:39:26.690 can either just send it to myself, Kip Craig, 00:39:26.829 --> 00:39:30.690 C -R -A -I -G, not Greg, or Ken, or both of us. 00:39:31.130 --> 00:39:32.969 Like I said, questions, comments, criticisms, 00:39:33.289 --> 00:39:35.730 because criticism can be a gift, right? Sure. 00:39:35.730 --> 00:39:38.070 As long as it's constructive. If you troll us, 00:39:38.150 --> 00:39:40.250 then we're probably not going to really spend 00:39:40.250 --> 00:39:44.260 a lot of time responding. And if you are a manufacturer, 00:39:44.579 --> 00:39:47.880 if you make accessories, if you make guns themselves, 00:39:48.099 --> 00:39:51.539 if you make anything that relates to the firearm 00:39:51.539 --> 00:39:54.719 industry. With an emphasis on value. With an 00:39:54.719 --> 00:39:57.539 emphasis on value, then you are a potential guest 00:39:57.539 --> 00:40:00.039 on this show. If you're interested in sponsoring 00:40:00.039 --> 00:40:01.940 the shows, reach out to us because eventually 00:40:01.940 --> 00:40:03.920 that will become important. It is not important 00:40:03.920 --> 00:40:07.119 yet, but it will be. And those who get in early 00:40:07.119 --> 00:40:09.639 will obviously reap the benefits of being in 00:40:09.639 --> 00:40:13.510 early. Or if you want to be a guest on the show 00:40:13.510 --> 00:40:15.650 for any other reason because you think that you 00:40:15.650 --> 00:40:18.250 have legitimacy in the training industry or other 00:40:18.250 --> 00:40:20.670 support industries, then reach out to us as well. 00:40:20.710 --> 00:40:23.769 Because sustainability of this show is really 00:40:23.769 --> 00:40:27.510 predicated on getting those people who have opportunities 00:40:27.510 --> 00:40:30.869 to represent value out in front of the listeners. 00:40:31.070 --> 00:40:33.829 So this is your forum. That's the focus point. 00:40:33.949 --> 00:40:36.809 If that's what you think you are and you can 00:40:36.809 --> 00:40:40.190 prove that. In about a 15 or 20 minute segment 00:40:40.190 --> 00:40:43.389 during our show, we want you on the show. So 00:40:43.389 --> 00:40:45.070 that's all we have for you tonight. And we'll 00:40:45.070 --> 00:40:47.829 look forward to seeing you next time on the Frugal 00:40:47.829 --> 00:40:50.809 Firearms Podcast. Absolutely.