WEBVTT 00:00:00.750 --> 00:00:03.710 Hey Frugal Firearms Podcast listeners, today 00:00:03.710 --> 00:00:06.429 we have the first part of a two -part series 00:00:06.429 --> 00:00:09.470 that we recorded with Jeff Goldstein of High 00:00:09.470 --> 00:00:12.849 Value Training Academy as well as his other business 00:00:12.849 --> 00:00:16.539 of BrassBuyers .com. Since his show covered two 00:00:16.539 --> 00:00:19.140 separate topics, we decided to split this into 00:00:19.140 --> 00:00:21.359 two episodes. So first, you're going to hear 00:00:21.359 --> 00:00:23.739 from Jeff talking about High Value Training Academy, 00:00:24.059 --> 00:00:26.940 and then in a future episode down the road, you'll 00:00:26.940 --> 00:00:29.719 hear him discuss BrassBuyers .com. So listen 00:00:29.719 --> 00:00:33.020 in, enjoy, and remember, always like, subscribe, 00:00:33.320 --> 00:00:40.929 comment, and tell your friends. You should have 00:00:40.929 --> 00:00:44.130 to submit your completion certificate for basic 00:00:44.130 --> 00:00:46.810 pistol, basic rifle with your 1099 every year. 00:00:46.850 --> 00:00:48.509 Like you shouldn't get your tax refund until 00:00:48.509 --> 00:00:51.030 you prove that you have basic firearms training. 00:00:52.130 --> 00:00:53.929 Because I can't think of two things that are 00:00:53.929 --> 00:00:55.950 more American than getting your tax refund and 00:00:55.950 --> 00:01:23.510 civilian firearm training. Welcome to episode 00:01:23.510 --> 00:01:26.849 24 of the Frugal Firearms podcast, the podcast 00:01:26.849 --> 00:01:29.709 that is designed from the ground up to help you 00:01:29.709 --> 00:01:32.469 get the most for your shooting dollar, help you 00:01:32.469 --> 00:01:35.209 spend money wisely, and help you get the most 00:01:35.209 --> 00:01:37.650 enjoyment out of your shooting experience. But 00:01:37.650 --> 00:01:41.670 part of that experience comes down to what? Training. 00:01:41.950 --> 00:01:45.609 So today is a show dedicated to the value proposition 00:01:45.609 --> 00:01:49.670 of training and why that has to be part of your 00:01:49.670 --> 00:01:51.849 investment strategy when it comes to shooting. 00:01:52.489 --> 00:01:55.609 And additionally, our guest today also owns another 00:01:55.609 --> 00:01:58.230 business that has not a darn thing to do with 00:01:58.230 --> 00:02:00.109 training. Well, maybe it does if you reload, 00:02:00.329 --> 00:02:03.709 and we'll get into that later. But first off, 00:02:03.769 --> 00:02:06.909 I'm going to mention that it's important for 00:02:06.909 --> 00:02:09.530 you guys. I mean, if you like the show, I want 00:02:09.530 --> 00:02:11.629 you to tell your friends, but you need to subscribe. 00:02:12.069 --> 00:02:14.310 You need to like the show. You need to share 00:02:14.310 --> 00:02:17.509 it. You need to leave comments. You need to do 00:02:17.509 --> 00:02:19.189 those things because we're putting in the hard 00:02:19.189 --> 00:02:21.560 work to get you a good product. And the way that 00:02:21.560 --> 00:02:24.199 we get a better product is by getting better 00:02:24.199 --> 00:02:26.819 guests. And how do we get better guests? By growing 00:02:26.819 --> 00:02:29.139 the audience. And how do we grow the audience? 00:02:29.240 --> 00:02:32.060 We grow the audience by having you guys help 00:02:32.060 --> 00:02:34.479 out the algorithms to get us the notoriety that 00:02:34.479 --> 00:02:37.479 we need. And, you know, since the last episode, 00:02:37.759 --> 00:02:40.400 Ken, welcome to the show, my co -host Ken, you 00:02:40.400 --> 00:02:42.419 know, how many countries have we added to the 00:02:42.419 --> 00:02:46.020 listener base here? It's surprising. I mean, 00:02:46.039 --> 00:02:47.560 we're worldwide. I think you've got to lay the 00:02:47.560 --> 00:02:49.680 stats on it, but we're now worldwide listened 00:02:49.680 --> 00:02:52.430 to. Yeah, we have new listeners in Singapore 00:02:52.430 --> 00:02:55.550 and Costa Rica, the Philippines. And thank you 00:02:55.550 --> 00:02:58.210 for joining in Canada. Maybe they'll get better 00:02:58.210 --> 00:03:01.930 laws some days. Finland and Brazil, South Africa, 00:03:02.030 --> 00:03:06.069 and of all places, Colombia. That was a bit of 00:03:06.069 --> 00:03:07.969 a surprise. You know, I'm kind of thinking that 00:03:07.969 --> 00:03:10.069 maybe sometime soon, maybe we'll get listeners 00:03:10.069 --> 00:03:15.009 in Venezuela and perhaps an actual republic of 00:03:15.009 --> 00:03:17.740 the people in Iran. That would be kind of cool, 00:03:17.840 --> 00:03:20.319 too. Although I think that Iran's probably some 00:03:20.319 --> 00:03:22.060 distance away from having a Second Amendment 00:03:22.060 --> 00:03:27.430 like ours. Anyway, today we have Jeff Goldstein, 00:03:27.569 --> 00:03:31.330 who is from High Value Training Academy. He is 00:03:31.330 --> 00:03:35.789 the founder. He's also the owner of BrassBuyers 00:03:35.789 --> 00:03:38.469 .com. And we're going to talk about both of those 00:03:38.469 --> 00:03:41.729 businesses. Most of the show is going to center 00:03:41.729 --> 00:03:44.810 on his training efforts. And he, by the way, 00:03:44.849 --> 00:03:46.909 folks, has a very unique model. Because if you 00:03:46.909 --> 00:03:50.349 look at his site, which is, by the way, HighValueTraining 00:03:50.349 --> 00:03:56.129 .org, You scroll down the list of classes and 00:03:56.129 --> 00:03:58.150 you think, yeah, you know, this class looks pretty 00:03:58.150 --> 00:03:59.810 good. And then you look at the cost and the cost 00:03:59.810 --> 00:04:02.229 says zero. And you're like, huh? What do you 00:04:02.229 --> 00:04:05.289 mean cost is zero? So we're going to bring Jeff 00:04:05.289 --> 00:04:08.090 on to explain how his business operates and why 00:04:08.090 --> 00:04:10.090 it's fundamentally different than others and 00:04:10.090 --> 00:04:13.090 why it is absolutely at the center of a value 00:04:13.090 --> 00:04:15.930 proposition. So, Jeff, welcome to the show. Thanks, 00:04:16.050 --> 00:04:18.980 guys. Glad to be here. so go ahead and why don't 00:04:18.980 --> 00:04:21.620 you you know just right out of the gate like 00:04:21.620 --> 00:04:23.420 i said a couple businesses here that are kind 00:04:23.420 --> 00:04:26.240 of unique but you know what's your background 00:04:26.240 --> 00:04:29.720 including your original story of of high value 00:04:29.720 --> 00:04:32.019 training academy and then later we'll circle 00:04:32.019 --> 00:04:36.079 back into the brassbuyers .com site it actually 00:04:36.079 --> 00:04:40.399 came together relatively quickly so uh years 00:04:40.399 --> 00:04:44.939 ago i decided that i wanted to go down the path 00:04:44.939 --> 00:04:48.480 of formalizing becoming a firearms instructor 00:04:48.480 --> 00:04:51.959 and to be honest i didn't really know anything 00:04:51.959 --> 00:04:54.560 about that i know that if you go to a range they 00:04:54.560 --> 00:04:56.920 have instructors i'm sure that you know i'm just 00:04:56.920 --> 00:05:00.120 going through my mental process i'm sure there 00:05:00.120 --> 00:05:03.379 are law enforcement people that do instruction 00:05:03.379 --> 00:05:06.639 i'm sure there are military military veterans 00:05:06.639 --> 00:05:10.519 who do instruction But I'm neither of those. 00:05:10.600 --> 00:05:14.220 And so I really didn't know much about civilian 00:05:14.220 --> 00:05:16.519 firearms instruction. So I just started doing 00:05:16.519 --> 00:05:20.199 research. And then probably luckily, the very 00:05:20.199 --> 00:05:24.379 first place I found was the NRA website. It's 00:05:24.379 --> 00:05:27.160 kind of wordy. There's a lot of paragraphs there. 00:05:27.279 --> 00:05:30.079 But they describe if you want to become a civilian 00:05:30.079 --> 00:05:32.240 firearms instructor, how you would go about doing 00:05:32.240 --> 00:05:35.899 that. And then there's some links to begin taking 00:05:35.899 --> 00:05:41.170 classes. Through the process of taking classes, 00:05:41.389 --> 00:05:44.329 I kind of got tricked and I'll explain that to 00:05:44.329 --> 00:05:46.389 you here in just a second. But through the process 00:05:46.389 --> 00:05:49.930 of taking classes, I went through the curriculum 00:05:49.930 --> 00:05:52.910 initially to become certified pistol instructor. 00:05:53.810 --> 00:05:57.750 And of course, in my mind, I'm thinking, OK, 00:05:57.970 --> 00:06:00.850 how do I turn this into a business? Now, here's 00:06:00.850 --> 00:06:04.490 where the trick came in. The very first NRA instructor 00:06:04.490 --> 00:06:08.779 I ever had who taught the. basics of pistol shooting 00:06:08.779 --> 00:06:13.100 student course um he is uh somebody i still have 00:06:13.100 --> 00:06:17.180 great contact with today uh and he's an excellent 00:06:17.180 --> 00:06:20.740 instructor and i went to his class and there 00:06:20.740 --> 00:06:23.939 were probably 30 students in the class i don't 00:06:23.939 --> 00:06:27.040 know maybe 25 students i'm looking around and 00:06:27.040 --> 00:06:30.779 i'm thinking oh my god there's this this unlimited 00:06:30.779 --> 00:06:33.279 demand for these courses i'm going to become 00:06:33.279 --> 00:06:36.060 an instructor and i'm always going to have 25 00:06:36.060 --> 00:06:41.819 or 30 people in the class then when i went to 00:06:41.819 --> 00:06:46.620 take my basics pistol shooting instructor class 00:06:46.620 --> 00:06:49.939 i think there were like eight of us in that class 00:06:49.939 --> 00:06:54.319 and then all of a sudden it hit me oh wait a 00:06:54.319 --> 00:06:58.040 minute where's the 25 30 people that i thought 00:06:58.040 --> 00:07:01.920 were going to be in here and so right so then 00:07:01.920 --> 00:07:03.579 all of a sudden i'm thinking wait where where 00:07:03.579 --> 00:07:05.339 are all the people what happened to this unlimited 00:07:05.339 --> 00:07:08.379 demand i thought i was walking into i started 00:07:08.379 --> 00:07:11.540 talking to the nra training counselor that i 00:07:11.540 --> 00:07:15.519 was working with and i asked him you know just 00:07:15.519 --> 00:07:17.939 for advice because i i'm not ashamed to say there's 00:07:17.939 --> 00:07:21.399 something i don't know and to ask questions about 00:07:21.399 --> 00:07:24.959 it so i started asking you know how do you build 00:07:24.959 --> 00:07:29.850 a business around this and He gave me some suggestions, 00:07:29.889 --> 00:07:32.829 and one of the suggestions he gave me was, you 00:07:32.829 --> 00:07:37.410 may want to consider being a nonprofit, setting 00:07:37.410 --> 00:07:42.069 up as a nonprofit. And so I asked, well, you 00:07:42.069 --> 00:07:44.569 know, what's the benefit of being a nonprofit? 00:07:44.709 --> 00:07:48.370 And he said, look around this room. You see these 00:07:48.370 --> 00:07:51.649 projectors, you see these tables, these chairs, 00:07:51.790 --> 00:07:55.790 the furniture that's in here, my desk. he said 00:07:55.790 --> 00:08:00.129 when when you're a non -profit you might be able 00:08:00.129 --> 00:08:02.550 to get your hands on the things that you need 00:08:02.550 --> 00:08:06.529 to set up a training school more cost effectively 00:08:06.529 --> 00:08:09.930 or even receive donations from places you know 00:08:09.930 --> 00:08:12.550 there's business some business going out of business 00:08:12.550 --> 00:08:15.250 and they have tables and chairs that they just 00:08:15.250 --> 00:08:18.600 need to get out of the the room and you know 00:08:18.600 --> 00:08:20.839 maybe they'll be willing to donate it to you 00:08:20.839 --> 00:08:23.939 if you give them a thank you letter for the value 00:08:23.939 --> 00:08:26.899 of their donation things like that so in my head 00:08:26.899 --> 00:08:31.759 i was thinking okay so that's an option um and 00:08:31.759 --> 00:08:34.860 what really pushed me in the direction of non 00:08:34.860 --> 00:08:39.740 -profit was the covet pandemic and some of the 00:08:40.409 --> 00:08:43.509 unfortunate events that unfolded during pandemic 00:08:43.509 --> 00:08:46.730 times that led to a lot of quote -unquote peaceful 00:08:46.730 --> 00:08:51.669 protests or riots or whatever. And I'm looking 00:08:51.669 --> 00:08:55.269 at a couple pieces of data. One is the statistics 00:08:55.269 --> 00:08:57.370 that are published on how many guns are sold 00:08:57.370 --> 00:09:00.590 every year. Then also, how many of those guns 00:09:00.590 --> 00:09:04.370 are sold to new gun owners? And we know that 00:09:04.370 --> 00:09:08.470 from people who are first -time 4473 applicants. 00:09:09.399 --> 00:09:13.100 And so we have this new gun quantity. We have 00:09:13.100 --> 00:09:17.019 this new gun owner quantity. And then I'm looking 00:09:17.019 --> 00:09:19.779 at, you know, I'm watching the news and I'm thinking, 00:09:19.879 --> 00:09:23.100 gosh, you know, I bet there's people that are 00:09:23.100 --> 00:09:26.220 going out and buying these probably guns for 00:09:26.220 --> 00:09:29.740 concealed carry purposes. And they're never going 00:09:29.740 --> 00:09:32.759 to a training class. I need to get in front of 00:09:32.759 --> 00:09:35.960 these people. I want to be able to offer my services 00:09:35.960 --> 00:09:40.860 to them to help them. at least get their start, 00:09:41.000 --> 00:09:43.960 right? So most of our customers are new shooters, 00:09:44.100 --> 00:09:46.519 beginner shooters, some intermediate shooters, 00:09:46.620 --> 00:09:51.659 but mostly new and beginner shooters. And it 00:09:51.659 --> 00:09:55.639 just felt like the right thing to do. And so 00:09:55.639 --> 00:10:00.120 I started going down the path of forming a nonprofit 00:10:00.120 --> 00:10:05.139 organization and then applying for 501c3 status 00:10:05.139 --> 00:10:09.200 with the IRS. We just keep building it. Then 00:10:09.200 --> 00:10:12.039 we got a website, right? I mean, this is all 00:10:12.039 --> 00:10:14.600 grassroots scratching and clawing. It's, you 00:10:14.600 --> 00:10:17.379 know, generous donations from friends and family 00:10:17.379 --> 00:10:20.799 to get this thing off the ground, right? I mean, 00:10:20.820 --> 00:10:23.799 your website's pretty good. I think that you've 00:10:23.799 --> 00:10:26.899 done, you know, a good job of at least, you know, 00:10:26.899 --> 00:10:29.320 the face of the company is a pretty good one. 00:10:29.600 --> 00:10:32.919 And the amount of variety there is pretty impressive 00:10:32.919 --> 00:10:36.720 too. We have a phenomenal website developer. 00:10:37.399 --> 00:10:42.100 I met him through a local small business organization 00:10:42.100 --> 00:10:46.259 where I live, and he did Brass Buyers. And I 00:10:46.259 --> 00:10:48.879 had a vision in my head for Brass Buyers. I know 00:10:48.879 --> 00:10:51.320 we're going to get to that later. But I had a 00:10:51.320 --> 00:10:53.200 vision in my head for how I wanted Brass Buyers 00:10:53.200 --> 00:10:56.279 to work. And that is actually a very complicated 00:10:56.279 --> 00:10:58.700 website. So I know a lot of people will use those 00:10:58.700 --> 00:11:01.850 newer like self -service. websites where you 00:11:01.850 --> 00:11:04.230 can you know sign up and subscribe and you create 00:11:04.230 --> 00:11:06.110 your own website and they look beautiful and 00:11:06.110 --> 00:11:09.029 they're based on templates they're easy to um 00:11:09.029 --> 00:11:12.509 manage that that is not my websites uh brass 00:11:12.509 --> 00:11:14.549 buyers was actually a very complicated website 00:11:14.549 --> 00:11:18.009 because it gives people the ability to both buy 00:11:18.009 --> 00:11:20.350 and sell and if you think about it not a lot 00:11:20.350 --> 00:11:22.970 of websites have a sell option they all have 00:11:22.970 --> 00:11:25.190 a buy option but very few of them have a sell 00:11:25.190 --> 00:11:28.370 option and so uh i went back to him and i said 00:11:28.370 --> 00:11:30.990 hey uh what do you think about doing another 00:11:30.990 --> 00:11:33.950 website for high value training? And I said, 00:11:33.970 --> 00:11:35.750 this is going to be a very basic website compared 00:11:35.750 --> 00:11:39.450 to Brass Buyers. And he was, us being a nonprofit, 00:11:39.789 --> 00:11:42.350 he was very generous with his time. We did pay 00:11:42.350 --> 00:11:48.269 him, but we're very fortunate to have him as 00:11:48.269 --> 00:11:51.610 our web developer because he doesn't charge us 00:11:51.610 --> 00:11:54.649 a lot of money to keep the website going. And 00:11:54.649 --> 00:11:58.090 so, you know, it's good that we do have a wish 00:11:58.090 --> 00:12:01.289 list for it, to be fair, that we're, you know, 00:12:01.289 --> 00:12:03.309 working through. But, you know, we understand 00:12:03.309 --> 00:12:04.789 that those things are also going to come at a 00:12:04.789 --> 00:12:09.629 cost. So what makes you a I mean, I guess you 00:12:09.629 --> 00:12:11.149 kind of talked about the motivation to become 00:12:11.149 --> 00:12:14.190 an instructor and set it up as as an as a nonprofit, 00:12:14.450 --> 00:12:18.070 which seems to be a good idea, honestly, the 00:12:18.070 --> 00:12:21.629 way you did it. But what makes you qualified 00:12:21.629 --> 00:12:23.789 to do this? I mean, obviously you have the NRA 00:12:23.789 --> 00:12:26.950 certification and you probably have some degree 00:12:26.950 --> 00:12:30.409 of experience now. How would you differentiate 00:12:30.409 --> 00:12:33.549 yourself from other trainers? Yeah, that's a 00:12:33.549 --> 00:12:36.950 really good question. So I think it's very difficult 00:12:36.950 --> 00:12:42.409 to differentiate the qualifications for a firearms 00:12:42.409 --> 00:12:45.409 instructor who's instructing new and beginning 00:12:45.409 --> 00:12:50.980 shooters. you're not really leveraging the instructor's 00:12:50.980 --> 00:12:53.740 full skill set for that right you're leveraging 00:12:53.740 --> 00:12:58.919 the uh basic skill set that i would think most 00:12:58.919 --> 00:13:02.799 firearms instructors will have what i like to 00:13:02.799 --> 00:13:05.500 say is my differentiator and i think this plays 00:13:05.500 --> 00:13:10.480 into the idea of the non -profit is that um i 00:13:10.480 --> 00:13:13.700 like to teach so i do a little bit of teaching 00:13:13.700 --> 00:13:17.590 at my full -time job i teach college courses 00:13:17.590 --> 00:13:20.750 part -time uh teach business business school 00:13:20.750 --> 00:13:24.649 uh courses part -time for local college uh face 00:13:24.649 --> 00:13:26.850 -to -face not online stuff like you know standing 00:13:26.850 --> 00:13:29.470 in a classroom in front of 20 students a very 00:13:29.470 --> 00:13:34.070 student outcome focused and so that also helps 00:13:34.070 --> 00:13:37.529 me personally rationalize operating as a non 00:13:37.529 --> 00:13:43.350 -profit because Profit is not my primary motivator 00:13:43.350 --> 00:13:45.649 for doing this. I think we should all have some 00:13:45.649 --> 00:13:48.669 sort of calling and that we, you know, give our 00:13:48.669 --> 00:13:52.409 time to, you know, whatever it is in your community, 00:13:52.570 --> 00:13:55.789 your church, your synagogue or whatever. And 00:13:55.789 --> 00:14:00.710 so I'm almost too focused on the student outcomes. 00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:04.179 Or I may even give a little bit more of my time 00:14:04.179 --> 00:14:07.039 than I should sometimes. Well, that's not a bad 00:14:07.039 --> 00:14:09.279 thing. I mean, if you're trying to produce better, 00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:12.059 safer shooters, I think that that's, you know, 00:14:12.059 --> 00:14:14.759 very laudable of you to do that. But, you know, 00:14:14.779 --> 00:14:19.350 you also aren't in this. as necessarily a charity. 00:14:19.549 --> 00:14:23.470 I mean, maybe there's charitable aspects of 501c3 00:14:23.470 --> 00:14:28.009 organizations, but you also incur real costs. 00:14:28.110 --> 00:14:29.490 So you're going to have to have a methodology 00:14:29.490 --> 00:14:34.210 by which you at least cover your expenses. And 00:14:34.210 --> 00:14:37.370 perhaps you put in some of your own income from 00:14:37.370 --> 00:14:40.590 your quote unquote day job. But at the same time, 00:14:40.610 --> 00:14:44.169 how do you actually keep it afloat and running? 00:14:44.679 --> 00:14:47.080 Yeah, absolutely. So you're right. There's some 00:14:47.080 --> 00:14:50.919 aspects of a 501c3 that are charitable contributions 00:14:50.919 --> 00:14:54.659 and there are some that are not. So, for example, 00:14:54.799 --> 00:14:57.740 a course fee. So if we're going to do NRA basics 00:14:57.740 --> 00:15:00.679 of pistol shooting and students are going to 00:15:00.679 --> 00:15:03.759 pay a course fee to come, that is not a charitable 00:15:03.759 --> 00:15:05.960 donation to our organization. That's a course 00:15:05.960 --> 00:15:17.059 fee. where you guys are in California. What would 00:15:17.059 --> 00:15:21.200 a new shooter pay to take NRA basics of pistol 00:15:21.200 --> 00:15:24.879 shooting? Most of what we would take is really, 00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:29.340 if I'm not going for something like TACCON, which 00:15:29.340 --> 00:15:33.179 I'm going to, but that's in Dallas. And that's 00:15:33.179 --> 00:15:36.159 maybe a different animal. Most of the trainers 00:15:36.159 --> 00:15:39.500 that I follow, you'd probably be into $400 to 00:15:39.500 --> 00:15:43.299 $600 for a couple -day course. If you're talking 00:15:43.299 --> 00:15:46.600 about an NRA -specific course, I don't know. 00:15:46.679 --> 00:15:49.200 The courses that we have to take are periodic 00:15:49.200 --> 00:15:52.379 CCW classes, and those are a couple hundred, 00:15:52.519 --> 00:15:57.220 and those are biannual. So for us, just through 00:15:57.220 --> 00:16:00.240 donations, we're able to get the cost down of... 00:16:01.029 --> 00:16:04.830 NRA basics of pistol shooting down to $80 to 00:16:04.830 --> 00:16:09.269 $85. That's pretty good. Yeah. And so that includes 00:16:09.269 --> 00:16:11.950 your instruction, the mandatory books that the 00:16:11.950 --> 00:16:14.830 NRA says we have to buy and give to you. That 00:16:14.830 --> 00:16:16.570 includes your range time. It does not include 00:16:16.570 --> 00:16:19.529 your ammo, but it does include, if you want, 00:16:19.570 --> 00:16:23.090 the use of our student pistols. So if you have 00:16:23.090 --> 00:16:25.409 your own pistol, you can bring it. If you want 00:16:25.409 --> 00:16:27.169 to rent one at the range that's interesting to 00:16:27.169 --> 00:16:29.500 you, you can do that. um or you can use ours 00:16:29.500 --> 00:16:32.279 but but there is a cost for um the ammo whether 00:16:32.279 --> 00:16:36.120 you bring it or you buy it at the course um doesn't 00:16:36.120 --> 00:16:38.279 really matter but um you know we're not providing 00:16:38.279 --> 00:16:41.379 the ammo at least for pistol class i'm a person 00:16:41.379 --> 00:16:44.940 that believes that like you should have to submit 00:16:44.940 --> 00:16:47.919 your completion certificate for basic pistol 00:16:47.919 --> 00:16:50.460 basic rifle with your 1099 every year like you 00:16:50.460 --> 00:16:52.879 shouldn't get your tax refund and until you prove 00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:56.480 that you have basic firearms. Because I can't 00:16:56.480 --> 00:16:58.059 think of two things that are more American than 00:16:58.059 --> 00:17:00.360 getting your tax refund and civilian firearms. 00:17:01.360 --> 00:17:04.740 If it doesn't happen in 2026, I think it's not 00:17:04.740 --> 00:17:09.220 going to happen anytime soon. I think you're 00:17:09.220 --> 00:17:12.440 reaching into a future that we all hope for, 00:17:12.519 --> 00:17:14.500 but probably, at least in California, we're not 00:17:14.500 --> 00:17:16.720 going to see that. Maybe in Ohio you have a... 00:17:16.720 --> 00:17:18.920 And by the way, listeners, I didn't mention that 00:17:18.920 --> 00:17:24.440 Jeff is in Ohio. So if you're in the Ohio area, 00:17:24.559 --> 00:17:26.440 obviously we're going to recommend that you train 00:17:26.440 --> 00:17:29.940 with him directly. But if not... you know jeff 00:17:29.940 --> 00:17:33.000 are there other organizations that are similarly 00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:37.299 uh comprised that are nationwide that you i mean 00:17:37.299 --> 00:17:39.119 i don't i don't mean one organization nationwide 00:17:39.119 --> 00:17:41.920 but are there other locations where businesses 00:17:41.920 --> 00:17:46.900 like yours exist so um that's kind of an interesting 00:17:46.900 --> 00:17:50.000 one so i go back to the comment i made about 00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:54.599 thinking about being a civilian firearms training 00:17:54.599 --> 00:17:58.000 organization as a nonprofit you know i got that 00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:02.039 idea from somebody else so i know these organizations 00:18:02.039 --> 00:18:06.640 do exist um but i think they're a little bit 00:18:06.640 --> 00:18:10.940 more difficult to find that like if you google 00:18:10.940 --> 00:18:14.279 you know firearm training in my area you're not 00:18:14.279 --> 00:18:16.200 going to come up with a list of non -profits 00:18:16.200 --> 00:18:18.859 first oh can i double back to something we were 00:18:18.859 --> 00:18:20.759 talking about a minute ago i forgot to make my 00:18:20.759 --> 00:18:23.279 second point of course you can yeah so course 00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:27.210 fees course fees are not charitable donations. 00:18:27.430 --> 00:18:31.230 They are course fees. However, we also do community 00:18:31.230 --> 00:18:32.890 events. And I think we're going to expand on 00:18:32.890 --> 00:18:35.089 that here in a little bit. But our community 00:18:35.089 --> 00:18:38.789 events are monthly right now. We have all of 00:18:38.789 --> 00:18:41.930 2026 scheduled. And these events are literally 00:18:41.930 --> 00:18:45.650 free to attend. There are events for the community. 00:18:46.230 --> 00:18:52.279 And we focus on a topic. So we may do like what 00:18:52.279 --> 00:18:55.160 we're doing next week, a two hour small group 00:18:55.160 --> 00:18:58.759 rifle lesson. So I have a bunch of rifles that 00:18:58.759 --> 00:19:03.539 students use in our full day courses. If you 00:19:03.539 --> 00:19:06.940 want to learn how to shoot a rifle, just like 00:19:06.940 --> 00:19:09.700 you might go to a shooting range to learn how 00:19:09.700 --> 00:19:12.500 to shoot anything, we'll be there at the range 00:19:12.500 --> 00:19:16.859 and you can join our event at no cost. As you 00:19:16.859 --> 00:19:19.930 mentioned, it's on the website. Also, the website 00:19:19.930 --> 00:19:22.470 does ask, would you like to make a donation? 00:19:22.690 --> 00:19:26.170 And you don't have to. You can participate without 00:19:26.170 --> 00:19:29.210 a donation or you could make a donation. Now, 00:19:29.250 --> 00:19:31.589 in those cases, those are charitable donations. 00:19:32.410 --> 00:19:35.549 And at the end of the year, we will send you 00:19:35.549 --> 00:19:39.089 a thank you letter for the total value of any 00:19:39.089 --> 00:19:41.650 charitable donations that you made to us, whether 00:19:41.650 --> 00:19:43.990 you attended an event or not. That's interesting. 00:19:44.130 --> 00:19:47.269 So you're saying that the community events that 00:19:47.269 --> 00:19:50.230 are ostensibly a charity, the way they're being 00:19:50.230 --> 00:19:52.910 comprised are no cost events but people could 00:19:52.910 --> 00:19:55.690 at those events make a donation or through the 00:19:55.690 --> 00:19:58.930 website are there other methods by which maybe 00:19:58.930 --> 00:20:01.190 sponsorships from various corporations or things 00:20:01.190 --> 00:20:03.210 like that because i'm imagining that there might 00:20:03.210 --> 00:20:04.970 be other people in the audience who are listening 00:20:04.970 --> 00:20:07.730 who operate ranges that are training companies 00:20:07.730 --> 00:20:10.789 that maybe are successful and maybe not so much 00:20:10.789 --> 00:20:12.869 and they might want to essentially copy your 00:20:12.869 --> 00:20:16.809 model Yeah, so we do ask for support from the 00:20:16.809 --> 00:20:20.210 community. I don't really want to name names, 00:20:20.390 --> 00:20:24.329 but let me start here. We have a board member 00:20:24.329 --> 00:20:27.210 whose primary responsibility is fundraising. 00:20:27.609 --> 00:20:32.109 So we're actually doing a lot of planning right 00:20:32.109 --> 00:20:34.829 now here in January. We're going to roll out 00:20:34.829 --> 00:20:37.529 some fun events over the course of the year. 00:20:37.670 --> 00:20:41.509 We'd like to do a turkey shoot in the fall. We 00:20:41.509 --> 00:20:45.440 may do... like some sort of trap event. These 00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:47.559 are brainstorming ideas, by the way. I mean, 00:20:47.559 --> 00:20:51.740 none of this is scheduled yet. We may participate 00:20:51.740 --> 00:20:56.740 in other events that are not specifically high 00:20:56.740 --> 00:20:58.519 -value training, but high -value training may 00:20:58.519 --> 00:21:03.359 be part of an event, like have a table or be 00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:06.500 a charitable sponsor or something like that for 00:21:06.500 --> 00:21:08.519 events. We're thinking about spaghetti dinners, 00:21:08.519 --> 00:21:11.630 all kinds of things. And then we do reach out 00:21:11.630 --> 00:21:16.190 to companies in the two way space to ask for 00:21:16.190 --> 00:21:19.710 donations specific to an event. I don't want 00:21:19.710 --> 00:21:22.509 to get too heavy into the things that we've asked 00:21:22.509 --> 00:21:25.710 for or received because we've received some things 00:21:25.710 --> 00:21:28.230 from some companies that have been very generous 00:21:28.230 --> 00:21:32.930 and we do thank them when we get those. But I 00:21:32.930 --> 00:21:36.160 don't want to. convey the idea that, well, if 00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:38.160 you set up a charity, all these companies are 00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:39.839 just going to throw their stuff at you. That's 00:21:39.839 --> 00:21:44.900 not true. As we in the podcast industry have 00:21:44.900 --> 00:21:47.960 learned, they're not beating your door down. 00:21:48.700 --> 00:21:51.059 Well, even if you ask, sometimes they'll say 00:21:51.059 --> 00:21:55.940 no. So here's an example. We want to do a holster 00:21:55.940 --> 00:22:00.059 draw class. And we don't want to do a live fire 00:22:00.059 --> 00:22:03.000 holster draw class. When we do holster draw classes, 00:22:03.079 --> 00:22:06.579 which are special events, some of those classes 00:22:06.579 --> 00:22:10.339 are dry fire only, and some of those classes 00:22:10.339 --> 00:22:13.619 are live fire. We do not take new students into 00:22:13.619 --> 00:22:16.940 a live fire holster draw class, right? So there's 00:22:16.940 --> 00:22:19.880 some level of, you know, you've participated 00:22:19.880 --> 00:22:22.359 with us before, we're familiar with you, you've 00:22:22.359 --> 00:22:26.640 taken some of our NRA courses beyond basic pistol 00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:29.619 shooting. um like for example personal protection 00:22:29.619 --> 00:22:31.619 in the home the course of fire there you you 00:22:31.619 --> 00:22:33.700 can't be a new shooter and do that course of 00:22:33.700 --> 00:22:35.599 fire so if you've done those things you might 00:22:35.599 --> 00:22:38.319 come to our holster draw class um we reached 00:22:38.319 --> 00:22:42.500 out to some holster companies um we have you 00:22:42.500 --> 00:22:46.380 know uh you know training like blue guns that 00:22:46.380 --> 00:22:50.819 that uh you can use to learn holster draw yes 00:22:50.819 --> 00:22:54.289 that It's a completely safe way to do holster 00:22:54.289 --> 00:22:56.410 draw. So we reached out to some holster companies, 00:22:56.630 --> 00:22:58.910 and again, I don't want to name names, and said, 00:22:58.930 --> 00:23:02.849 hey, we would love it if you could donate some 00:23:02.849 --> 00:23:11.869 of your most basic G17 holsters. Because we want 00:23:11.869 --> 00:23:14.549 to teach this class, and we explained it all. 00:23:14.650 --> 00:23:17.730 Every single one of them turned us down. Really? 00:23:18.970 --> 00:23:21.740 Huh. And I'll tell you what we ended up doing, 00:23:21.819 --> 00:23:25.920 which I thought was actually better, is we went 00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:30.680 out and bought some, what's that scuba diver 00:23:30.680 --> 00:23:33.900 suit material? Neoprene? Neoprene, yeah, sure. 00:23:34.039 --> 00:23:36.519 Yeah, yeah. So we went out and bought some neoprene 00:23:36.519 --> 00:23:39.920 belly bands. Oh, yeah. And a couple different 00:23:39.920 --> 00:23:42.980 sizes. And we decided, you know what, we're going 00:23:42.980 --> 00:23:46.960 to use those instead because... People can come 00:23:46.960 --> 00:23:52.240 in their joggers or their jeans or their slacks 00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:54.019 and button -down shirt from work or whatever, 00:23:54.200 --> 00:23:56.279 and they can wrap one of these belly bands around 00:23:56.279 --> 00:23:59.599 what they're wearing right now and put one of 00:23:59.599 --> 00:24:03.099 our training pistols into the holster of that 00:24:03.099 --> 00:24:07.700 belly band. And so instead of getting dedicated 00:24:07.700 --> 00:24:13.079 outside -the -waistband holsters, and using a 00:24:13.079 --> 00:24:16.720 specific pattern for our training pistols, our 00:24:16.720 --> 00:24:20.359 blue guns, now we can train with any size gun. 00:24:20.420 --> 00:24:22.480 If we have a blue gun revolver, we can still 00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:26.240 use the belly band. That's good. Yeah, we decided 00:24:26.240 --> 00:24:28.099 to do that, and you know what? Those didn't cost 00:24:28.099 --> 00:24:32.500 very much, and so we do get some cash donations. 00:24:32.519 --> 00:24:36.700 Not a lot. We don't have a war chest, I guess, 00:24:36.819 --> 00:24:39.259 but to buy a few of those belly bands is no big 00:24:39.259 --> 00:24:43.880 deal. We did that. Yeah, I have been fortunate 00:24:43.880 --> 00:24:49.019 to receive some extra holsters from law enforcement 00:24:49.019 --> 00:24:52.119 friends of mine who no longer use them or they're 00:24:52.119 --> 00:24:54.339 switching to a different gun or something. And 00:24:54.339 --> 00:24:58.680 surprisingly, on a lot of pistols, a variety 00:24:58.680 --> 00:25:01.720 of different manufacturer pistols will fit into 00:25:01.720 --> 00:25:04.920 the same holster pretty well. Not all of them 00:25:04.920 --> 00:25:07.539 and not every pistol, but I've gotten quite a 00:25:07.539 --> 00:25:10.940 few nice... very functional holsters that way. 00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:14.259 We have had a few offers for that, and we'll 00:25:14.259 --> 00:25:16.339 probably end up with a few of those here soon. 00:25:17.220 --> 00:25:20.259 But I think those are a little bit of a challenge 00:25:20.259 --> 00:25:22.220 for what we're trying to accomplish with people 00:25:22.220 --> 00:25:25.740 who are just learning holster draw. So, for example, 00:25:26.059 --> 00:25:29.440 a friend of High Value Training has offered one 00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:34.299 of his older Safari Land L3 duty holsters. Oh, 00:25:34.299 --> 00:25:38.009 yeah. Which is... Phenomenal. We're not going 00:25:38.009 --> 00:25:41.309 to go out and buy one of those. As long as it's 00:25:41.309 --> 00:25:45.589 not a Serpa pattern, right? Its retention is 00:25:45.589 --> 00:25:50.450 on the light. The tricky part is, do we have 00:25:50.450 --> 00:25:54.730 a training pistol pattern with that light that 00:25:54.730 --> 00:25:57.109 is going to work functionally? That's really 00:25:57.109 --> 00:26:00.430 not the holster that we're going to teach. for 00:26:00.430 --> 00:26:04.509 new holster draw. So while we absolutely love 00:26:04.509 --> 00:26:07.089 getting those things and we'll use them, right, 00:26:07.170 --> 00:26:10.009 that's not our primary customer. Do you try to 00:26:10.009 --> 00:26:13.549 avoid the SERPA pattern and other ones like it 00:26:13.549 --> 00:26:16.369 that use the index finger to release the gun? 00:26:16.670 --> 00:26:19.450 I know that's a lot of ranges, just you're not 00:26:19.450 --> 00:26:21.250 using that on our range. I mean, they're very 00:26:21.250 --> 00:26:25.349 black and white about that. Yeah. So we're not 00:26:25.349 --> 00:26:27.430 teaching drawing through retention, at least 00:26:27.430 --> 00:26:30.559 not right now. We're, we're teaching, uh, just 00:26:30.559 --> 00:26:32.759 drawing either with the belly bands that we have 00:26:32.759 --> 00:26:37.380 or with some of the basic OWB holsters that we 00:26:37.380 --> 00:26:39.400 can get our hands on. Is it okay to mention a 00:26:39.400 --> 00:26:42.000 product? Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, 00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:44.519 well, you know, caveat for the listeners and 00:26:44.519 --> 00:26:46.519 I failed to mention this upfront. Okay. So we've 00:26:46.519 --> 00:26:48.880 never trained with you. And normally our rules 00:26:48.880 --> 00:26:50.740 of engagement are that we have to be familiar 00:26:50.740 --> 00:26:54.420 with the product and, or the trainer or the service 00:26:54.420 --> 00:26:56.960 or whatever to be. on this show which is kind 00:26:56.960 --> 00:26:59.660 of a de facto endorsement uh but since you and 00:26:59.660 --> 00:27:02.000 i talked and since your business model is so 00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:04.000 different that's that's why you're on the show 00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:06.460 i mean heck the name of your organization you 00:27:06.460 --> 00:27:08.359 know high value training academy sort of makes 00:27:08.359 --> 00:27:11.420 it a natural fit with what we're doing uh but 00:27:11.420 --> 00:27:13.759 the same thing here i mean you know you mentioning 00:27:13.759 --> 00:27:17.920 something is you endorsing it it's not us endorsing 00:27:17.920 --> 00:27:20.720 it so you can mention anybody you want Okay. 00:27:20.759 --> 00:27:24.019 So I guess I should mention, as we were thinking 00:27:24.019 --> 00:27:27.859 about names for high value training, just leaning 00:27:27.859 --> 00:27:31.799 on that idea of high quality student outcomes 00:27:31.799 --> 00:27:35.160 is one of the things that led us to the name 00:27:35.160 --> 00:27:38.200 that we selected. But the product I want to mention 00:27:38.200 --> 00:27:41.400 is from We The People Holsters. They make something 00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:44.400 called the Freedom Holster. And it's not the 00:27:44.400 --> 00:27:46.440 first holster that you'll see on their website. 00:27:46.500 --> 00:27:49.140 You have to look for it. But the reason we like 00:27:49.140 --> 00:27:52.519 it for training is because as long as you have 00:27:52.519 --> 00:27:54.940 the correct pattern pistol, whether it's an M 00:27:54.940 --> 00:27:58.279 &P or a Glock or whatever, the Freedom Holster, 00:27:58.299 --> 00:28:00.500 for those that aren't aware, can be converted 00:28:00.500 --> 00:28:04.500 into literally thousands of different configurations. 00:28:04.680 --> 00:28:08.859 So it is a chunky holster. but it can be left 00:28:08.859 --> 00:28:12.700 -handed or right -handed. It can be OWB or IWB. 00:28:12.839 --> 00:28:15.039 You can use it with a paddle. You can use it 00:28:15.039 --> 00:28:17.400 with belt loops. You can use it with hooks. And 00:28:17.400 --> 00:28:19.480 it comes with all of those accessories in the 00:28:19.480 --> 00:28:23.200 box. So as a training tool, we really feel like 00:28:23.200 --> 00:28:27.059 that's a great value because it's so versatile 00:28:27.059 --> 00:28:30.180 for us. So I can have two students, one left 00:28:30.180 --> 00:28:33.819 -handed, one right -handed, come to a holster 00:28:33.819 --> 00:28:37.039 draw class. where we're using the Freedom Holster 00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:41.359 and I can hand it to one of them and they can 00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:44.380 use it. And then with a Phillips head screwdriver, 00:28:44.700 --> 00:28:47.740 in 90 seconds, I can convert it between left 00:28:47.740 --> 00:28:49.299 -handed and right -handed and hand it to the 00:28:49.299 --> 00:28:51.619 other student. Now, would we like to just have 00:28:51.619 --> 00:28:55.079 lots of those? Of course we would. But just having 00:28:55.079 --> 00:28:57.119 the one is really nice. If somebody says, well, 00:28:57.160 --> 00:28:59.269 you know, I've never... Drawn from inside the 00:28:59.269 --> 00:29:01.190 waistband. Oh, okay. Hang on. Let me pull out 00:29:01.190 --> 00:29:03.369 my Phillips screwdriver and I'll switch it from 00:29:03.369 --> 00:29:07.269 OWB to IWB. And you can, you know, with our blue 00:29:07.269 --> 00:29:10.089 guns or training pistols, you can try it. And 00:29:10.089 --> 00:29:13.049 for those people who don't know, that's outside 00:29:13.049 --> 00:29:15.869 the waistband and inside the waistband, OWB and 00:29:15.869 --> 00:29:18.650 IWB. I know some of our listeners may not be 00:29:18.650 --> 00:29:20.990 familiar with that phrase, which is common in 00:29:20.990 --> 00:29:22.490 holsters. But anyway, I just want to point that 00:29:22.490 --> 00:29:23.849 out. Right, right. Thanks, Ken. No, I appreciate 00:29:23.849 --> 00:29:26.609 it. But I think what's not common. a holster 00:29:26.609 --> 00:29:29.609 that literally can be converted between the two 00:29:29.609 --> 00:29:32.390 and be converted between left -handed and right 00:29:32.390 --> 00:29:34.849 -handed and you know how you wear it on your 00:29:34.849 --> 00:29:37.029 belt and everything so there's a lot of flexibility 00:29:37.980 --> 00:29:41.259 So we do enjoy that product. That's a company 00:29:41.259 --> 00:29:43.880 that we hope to get on at some point. We haven't 00:29:43.880 --> 00:29:45.819 yet, but there's another one, too, that I'll 00:29:45.819 --> 00:29:48.319 just mention. As a fairly generic holster that 00:29:48.319 --> 00:29:51.180 has a really unique retention system is Mission 00:29:51.180 --> 00:29:55.859 First Tactical. Their Pro Series uses a rod. 00:29:56.410 --> 00:29:59.910 and a magnet. So the rod goes down the barrel, 00:29:59.990 --> 00:30:03.190 and then the magnet at the end of the rod secures 00:30:03.190 --> 00:30:06.609 the weapon. And they have ones that accommodate 00:30:06.609 --> 00:30:10.549 weapon -mounted lights. And while they say that 00:30:10.549 --> 00:30:12.509 they're, you know, dedicated toward a certain 00:30:12.509 --> 00:30:15.109 combination of gun and light, it turns out that 00:30:15.109 --> 00:30:17.470 they're a little bit more generic than that in 00:30:17.470 --> 00:30:21.269 application. And they, you know, work fantastically 00:30:21.269 --> 00:30:24.299 too. I mean, it's not a security retention. you 00:30:24.299 --> 00:30:26.700 know, device it, you know, for like law enforcement, 00:30:26.779 --> 00:30:29.299 but you know, for everyday user, it's a great 00:30:29.299 --> 00:30:32.119 item. Ken, you had something. No, no. I just 00:30:32.119 --> 00:30:34.680 say, you know, I know Craig, Craig, you and I 00:30:34.680 --> 00:30:37.980 need to work on my host of design sometime, which 00:30:37.980 --> 00:30:41.640 we want to talk about here, but. Yeah. Ken has 00:30:41.640 --> 00:30:44.599 a unique idea that, that fits a certain segment 00:30:44.599 --> 00:30:47.019 of the population that would, that would actually 00:30:47.019 --> 00:30:50.140 be kind of cool. And I've seen him use his prototype 00:30:50.140 --> 00:30:53.660 and. I can't see that he's wearing anything. 00:30:53.839 --> 00:30:56.279 I mean, I'm looking all over him, and I don't 00:30:56.279 --> 00:31:00.599 see it. And that was on a Ruger LCR. But that's 00:31:00.599 --> 00:31:03.339 another story. Another story, yes. Is that important 00:31:03.339 --> 00:31:06.960 in California? So if you're printing or something, 00:31:07.279 --> 00:31:10.740 is that a problem? Only if somebody reports you. 00:31:10.900 --> 00:31:12.940 I mean, because anybody can report you and say, 00:31:13.019 --> 00:31:16.339 you know, he's got a gun. Okay, all right. And 00:31:16.339 --> 00:31:18.920 then the cops will... will come and they'll inquire 00:31:18.920 --> 00:31:20.619 and if it's just something you know you're printing 00:31:20.619 --> 00:31:23.259 because you know you're wearing dip on clothes 00:31:23.259 --> 00:31:25.519 like some of the women walk around with these 00:31:25.519 --> 00:31:27.700 dip on clothes i call them dip on because they're 00:31:27.700 --> 00:31:29.740 so tight you know it's like you you know liquid 00:31:29.740 --> 00:31:33.220 painted on oh yeah yeah yeah and that's a bad 00:31:33.220 --> 00:31:36.769 thing you got a problem with that Well, maybe. 00:31:37.150 --> 00:31:38.849 That's a topic for a different podcast. Yeah, 00:31:38.869 --> 00:31:43.069 a different topic. I was going to just say that 00:31:43.069 --> 00:31:46.009 each state is a little bit different. When people 00:31:46.009 --> 00:31:49.529 ask me, how do I carry? My answer is, well, here 00:31:49.529 --> 00:31:51.650 in Ohio, I do something called comfortable carry. 00:31:52.069 --> 00:31:55.490 I carry the gun that I'm most comfortable with 00:31:55.490 --> 00:31:57.710 and the holster I'm most comfortable with. I 00:31:57.710 --> 00:31:59.730 conceal it, but I don't really care if anybody 00:31:59.730 --> 00:32:02.950 sees it because we're an open carry state. Oh, 00:32:02.950 --> 00:32:07.089 yeah. happens to show a little bit, it's no harm, 00:32:07.150 --> 00:32:10.410 no foul, as long as I'm in a place where you're 00:32:10.410 --> 00:32:12.410 legally allowed to carry, right? Because we do 00:32:12.410 --> 00:32:16.430 have those gun buster signs, you know, in place. 00:32:16.630 --> 00:32:18.930 And in California, a three -judge panel on the 00:32:18.930 --> 00:32:22.029 Ninth Circuit just said that California's propulsion 00:32:22.029 --> 00:32:25.069 against open carry was unconstitutional. Now, 00:32:25.109 --> 00:32:28.029 that is being appealed and will be in en banc. 00:32:28.559 --> 00:32:31.640 decision ninth circuit yeah yeah before the entire 00:32:31.640 --> 00:32:34.339 ninth circuit but it was interesting because 00:32:34.339 --> 00:32:37.700 i got a call the other day from phone rang it's 00:32:37.700 --> 00:32:40.339 like huh what's that it was the san diego sheriff's 00:32:40.339 --> 00:32:42.440 office calling me it's like i wonder what they 00:32:42.440 --> 00:32:45.019 would be calling me for right and they were calling 00:32:45.019 --> 00:32:48.119 me on behalf of a relative who applied for a 00:32:48.119 --> 00:32:52.519 ccw and in in her case i'm the one who's been 00:32:52.519 --> 00:32:55.160 helping her along this path and they called me 00:32:55.160 --> 00:32:57.230 as the character reference and i'm like cool 00:32:57.230 --> 00:32:59.269 kind of like why you doing that because well 00:32:59.269 --> 00:33:01.650 now it's required in california that that's a 00:33:01.650 --> 00:33:04.910 extra burden on the law enforcement community 00:33:04.910 --> 00:33:07.829 to be able to have an interview and i got to 00:33:07.829 --> 00:33:10.990 talking to this guy on the side and he he's a 00:33:10.990 --> 00:33:14.150 the sheriff's deputy was a big advocate of both 00:33:14.150 --> 00:33:17.829 open and concealed carry and you know he's hoping 00:33:17.829 --> 00:33:20.670 that it goes through and and i asked him i said 00:33:20.670 --> 00:33:24.230 if if open carry is found to be constitutional 00:33:24.230 --> 00:33:27.339 in california which I mean, parenthetically, 00:33:27.420 --> 00:33:30.140 it is, but against the law, whatever, that's 00:33:30.140 --> 00:33:32.539 a separate conversation. Would I still need to 00:33:32.539 --> 00:33:34.539 apply for a CCW? Because, yeah, the way it would 00:33:34.539 --> 00:33:37.900 be now, you'd have to still have a CCW. Yeah, 00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:40.440 the law that they just overturned, California 00:33:40.440 --> 00:33:42.539 had a law that basically said, oh, yeah, we allow 00:33:42.539 --> 00:33:45.359 open carry, but only if your county, and there 00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:47.900 are 58 counties in the state of California, only 00:33:47.900 --> 00:33:50.420 if your county has less than 200 ,000 people 00:33:50.420 --> 00:33:53.980 into it that live in the county. And of the 58 00:33:53.980 --> 00:33:55.839 counties, I think it's like two or three of the 00:33:55.839 --> 00:33:58.519 very rural counties have that. And then, of course, 00:33:58.579 --> 00:34:01.240 the judges on the panel of the Ninth Circuit 00:34:01.240 --> 00:34:05.500 said, okay, so basically 95 plus percent of the 00:34:05.500 --> 00:34:08.190 population in California is. cannot open carry 00:34:08.190 --> 00:34:09.909 because they live in a county that, number one, 00:34:09.929 --> 00:34:12.469 has more than 200 ,000 people. And then they 00:34:12.469 --> 00:34:14.469 said, okay, of the three, say, three counties 00:34:14.469 --> 00:34:17.050 that are remaining, how many open carry licenses 00:34:17.050 --> 00:34:20.829 have ever been granted? And there have been none, 00:34:20.969 --> 00:34:24.010 zero, zip. There have been no open carry licenses 00:34:24.010 --> 00:34:27.210 issued in the county. Plus, even if one was issued 00:34:27.210 --> 00:34:29.769 in that county, it's only valid in that county. 00:34:30.269 --> 00:34:32.010 The minute you'd step into a different county 00:34:32.010 --> 00:34:34.530 over the line to get a cheeseburger at the local 00:34:34.530 --> 00:34:38.710 whatever, you'd be in violation. Reciprocity? 00:34:38.869 --> 00:34:42.550 Nah. Nah. Not even within the state. I don't 00:34:42.550 --> 00:34:44.989 understand the big deal around open carry because 00:34:44.989 --> 00:34:49.510 Ohio has always been open carry, and you don't 00:34:49.510 --> 00:34:53.250 see people walking around with guns visible on 00:34:53.250 --> 00:34:56.869 their person. It's a culture thing where if you... 00:34:57.519 --> 00:34:59.480 Because you've had it and people know you've 00:34:59.480 --> 00:35:02.440 had it, people are acclimated to the idea that 00:35:02.440 --> 00:35:05.519 it's there. This is a little bit analogous to, 00:35:05.639 --> 00:35:08.880 for example, if you take a country that is not 00:35:08.880 --> 00:35:11.280 used to having freedom, and then all of a sudden 00:35:11.280 --> 00:35:14.980 you overthrow the dictator, recent example, and 00:35:14.980 --> 00:35:20.860 they are not familiar with democratic processes 00:35:20.860 --> 00:35:24.500 and representative republics and how they operate. 00:35:24.500 --> 00:35:27.559 They struggle. And the same thing can happen 00:35:27.559 --> 00:35:30.179 in an open carry. Suddenly you go open carry. 00:35:30.420 --> 00:35:32.880 You know how many man with a gun calls there's 00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:34.780 going to be? And then you're like, okay, crap, 00:35:34.860 --> 00:35:36.079 I've got to wait around for the cops to show 00:35:36.079 --> 00:35:38.320 up. Yeah, okay, I'm just exercising my constitutional 00:35:38.320 --> 00:35:41.139 right. Thanks, have a nice day. And along those 00:35:41.139 --> 00:35:44.699 lines, there's the Babylon Bee, which produces 00:35:44.699 --> 00:35:48.019 these videos. Some of them are very humorous. 00:35:48.199 --> 00:35:51.139 Well, satirical as hell. Satirical, yeah, satirical. 00:35:51.239 --> 00:35:55.739 The Babylon Bee has a series of videos. of a 00:35:55.739 --> 00:35:59.199 California couple who moves to Texas. And the 00:35:59.199 --> 00:36:01.500 neighbor comes by and is like, how you doing? 00:36:01.699 --> 00:36:04.139 And he's trying to introduce himself. And he's 00:36:04.139 --> 00:36:09.440 open carrying a .45 1911 on his hip. And as soon 00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:12.440 as the wife sees it, she freaks out and whips 00:36:12.440 --> 00:36:15.139 out her cell phone and starts videoing, don't 00:36:15.139 --> 00:36:16.780 shoot me and all this stuff. And he's like... 00:36:17.039 --> 00:36:20.480 No, this is normal here. This is Texas. I saw 00:36:20.480 --> 00:36:23.099 the whole thing. It's hilarious. It is hilarious. 00:36:23.199 --> 00:36:25.619 I recommend those who are listening to us who 00:36:25.619 --> 00:36:28.719 haven't seen it, go look up Babylon B, Californians 00:36:28.719 --> 00:36:31.460 moved to Texas. What skills do you teach, Jeff? 00:36:31.500 --> 00:36:35.389 And what are... like what do you teach now it 00:36:35.389 --> 00:36:36.889 sounds like some of it's you know relatively 00:36:36.889 --> 00:36:39.489 basic in terms of at least the draw classes uh 00:36:39.489 --> 00:36:42.289 and what are you kind of developing into teaching 00:36:42.289 --> 00:36:44.750 and maybe differentiate for us which of those 00:36:44.750 --> 00:36:47.409 will be you know no cost to the public ones and 00:36:47.409 --> 00:36:51.389 which one will be for cost sure um so we teach 00:36:51.389 --> 00:36:54.170 a variety of different skills so primarily we're 00:36:54.170 --> 00:36:57.030 teaching pistol and rifle skills and it's primarily 00:36:57.030 --> 00:37:01.570 uh basic skills um as far as like you know what 00:37:01.570 --> 00:37:05.659 uh certifications do i have from the nra i'm 00:37:05.659 --> 00:37:08.920 certified to teach a pistol rifle personal protection 00:37:08.920 --> 00:37:10.440 in the home which is more of an intermediate 00:37:10.440 --> 00:37:15.000 class and i'm also a chief range safety officer 00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:18.039 so i can teach rso so there's a couple reasons 00:37:18.039 --> 00:37:21.320 for having that specific mix i also volunteer 00:37:21.320 --> 00:37:26.309 with boy scouts of america Last summer, I spent 00:37:26.309 --> 00:37:29.429 an entire week on their rifle range at scout 00:37:29.429 --> 00:37:33.909 camp at summer camp, and they need NRA rifle 00:37:33.909 --> 00:37:38.090 instructors and RSOs and chief RSOs involved 00:37:38.090 --> 00:37:42.670 in scouting because that's who scouts uses to 00:37:42.670 --> 00:37:45.670 run their ranges. Scouts is very close with the 00:37:45.670 --> 00:37:49.929 NRA. So that mix works both from a high value 00:37:49.929 --> 00:37:52.150 training perspective and a personal volunteering 00:37:52.150 --> 00:37:56.539 perspective. What you would get from a full day 00:37:56.539 --> 00:37:58.920 course, like let's say basics of pistol shooting, 00:37:59.019 --> 00:38:02.199 basics of rifle shooting, is we're going to leverage 00:38:02.199 --> 00:38:06.400 the NRA curriculum for those courses. The NRA 00:38:06.400 --> 00:38:09.340 does an excellent job putting together a curriculum 00:38:09.340 --> 00:38:12.780 that is nationally recognized, that covers the 00:38:12.780 --> 00:38:15.460 things that need to be covered, that's been vetted 00:38:15.460 --> 00:38:20.630 by so many experts in the industry. and so it's 00:38:20.630 --> 00:38:23.230 it's a good one to leverage the materials associated 00:38:23.230 --> 00:38:26.309 with it like the books are really good and they 00:38:26.309 --> 00:38:29.889 even have uh a survey that you can fill out at 00:38:29.889 --> 00:38:33.630 the end for example um this is the appendix d 00:38:33.630 --> 00:38:36.429 for basics of pistol shooting you can ask your 00:38:36.429 --> 00:38:38.650 students to fill out a survey so you can get 00:38:38.650 --> 00:38:42.389 feedback on how you're doing and you can um you 00:38:42.389 --> 00:38:45.889 know if i i'm a data nerd myself so i actually 00:38:45.889 --> 00:38:49.550 record all my survey scores and look for areas 00:38:49.550 --> 00:38:52.909 of improvement. And then again, we're really 00:38:52.909 --> 00:38:57.789 all about the student outcomes. So in my mind, 00:38:57.849 --> 00:39:00.110 I'm always thinking, how do, there's really two 00:39:00.110 --> 00:39:02.409 kinds of training in my mind. There's the skills 00:39:02.409 --> 00:39:06.869 training. So there's the, how do I train to have 00:39:06.869 --> 00:39:10.769 a skill, right? So, you know, am I the best shooter 00:39:10.769 --> 00:39:13.190 in the room? I have no idea, right? But I have 00:39:13.190 --> 00:39:15.389 those basic skills that I've learned through 00:39:15.389 --> 00:39:18.619 courses that I've taken. and continue to take. 00:39:18.760 --> 00:39:20.880 And then there's training to teach, which is 00:39:20.880 --> 00:39:23.500 a completely different skill set, right? What 00:39:23.500 --> 00:39:28.460 are the things that you need to absorb from other 00:39:28.460 --> 00:39:31.679 instructors? What are some of the nuances that 00:39:31.679 --> 00:39:34.099 you notice as your class is going on during the 00:39:34.099 --> 00:39:36.199 day? What types of questions are people asking 00:39:36.199 --> 00:39:40.079 you? Where do you get stuck on topics to improve 00:39:40.079 --> 00:39:43.280 the learning? So, for example, one of the things 00:39:43.280 --> 00:39:46.480 that we did to improve learning when teaching 00:39:46.480 --> 00:39:50.699 grip i was finding that teaching new shooters 00:39:50.699 --> 00:39:54.480 how to properly grip a pistol was taking a little 00:39:54.480 --> 00:39:57.219 while because everybody's hands are a different 00:39:57.219 --> 00:40:00.000 size and you know you're not doing one -on -one 00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:02.860 instruction and so you're taking them through 00:40:02.860 --> 00:40:06.840 the courseware and the the curriculum but there's 00:40:06.840 --> 00:40:08.639 a few different ways that you can teach these 00:40:08.639 --> 00:40:10.739 skills you can show some powerpoint slides which 00:40:10.739 --> 00:40:14.769 i think is probably midway helpful, at least 00:40:14.769 --> 00:40:17.230 you're seeing something. You can demonstrate 00:40:17.230 --> 00:40:19.849 it yourself, which is pretty good. You can tell 00:40:19.849 --> 00:40:22.150 people how to do it, which is probably the least 00:40:22.150 --> 00:40:24.369 effective way to do it. Or you can come up with 00:40:24.369 --> 00:40:26.949 a training aid that helps people just do it. 00:40:27.050 --> 00:40:29.630 And so I'm all about the training aid. So here's 00:40:29.630 --> 00:40:33.030 just like one example. I developed this little 00:40:33.030 --> 00:40:38.449 3D printed gizmo that can screw on to the rail 00:40:38.449 --> 00:40:42.780 of a training pistol, blue gun. so when you're 00:40:42.780 --> 00:40:46.079 teaching grip and you put the shooting hand on 00:40:46.079 --> 00:40:48.980 the gun three fingers on the grip a trigger finger 00:40:48.980 --> 00:40:53.019 along the frame or the rail um your support hand 00:40:53.019 --> 00:40:55.699 four fingers over three right where do you put 00:40:55.699 --> 00:40:58.280 your thumb right on the thing that is 3d printed 00:40:58.280 --> 00:41:00.119 and that just puts your thumb in the right place 00:41:00.119 --> 00:41:02.300 you can take your hand off put your hand on your 00:41:02.300 --> 00:41:04.000 thumb always goes back to the right place if 00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:06.340 you put it on that thing right so we've turned 00:41:06.340 --> 00:41:10.500 teaching grip from a more difficult thing to 00:41:10.500 --> 00:41:13.460 explain to students really picking up on it very 00:41:13.460 --> 00:41:17.340 quickly do you sell those is that is that a an 00:41:17.340 --> 00:41:19.340 item that you've actually put on the market i 00:41:19.340 --> 00:41:24.519 i'd love to i i wish i wish i was that good of 00:41:24.519 --> 00:41:27.980 a businessman but i mean it's literally like 00:41:27.980 --> 00:41:30.480 screwed on and off with an allen key i mean people 00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:32.900 can't this is an audio show so i'm going to describe 00:41:32.900 --> 00:41:35.300 what what you've got here what it is is essentially 00:41:35.300 --> 00:41:38.440 it's a rail mounted thumb rest uh for your offhand 00:41:39.130 --> 00:41:43.630 And that is assuming maybe the left -handed version. 00:41:43.789 --> 00:41:45.710 Yeah. The version we're looking at is the right 00:41:45.710 --> 00:41:48.690 -handed version. And I have left -handed version. 00:41:48.789 --> 00:41:51.070 All you'd have to do to make that, you know, 00:41:51.070 --> 00:41:53.489 even better quote unquote would be add another 00:41:53.489 --> 00:41:55.349 pick rail on the bottom of it. And then you could 00:41:55.349 --> 00:41:58.769 keep your accessories on there too. And, and 00:41:58.769 --> 00:42:00.150 that would be something you could absolutely 00:42:00.150 --> 00:42:03.489 sell. Yeah. So, I mean, just, you're just on 00:42:03.489 --> 00:42:06.219 the pistol properly every time. So. I also know 00:42:06.219 --> 00:42:08.500 what I'm doing, but I mean, I'm watching the 00:42:08.500 --> 00:42:11.960 success of my students with that. When we're 00:42:11.960 --> 00:42:15.880 teaching ammunition, so by the benefits of owning 00:42:15.880 --> 00:42:19.079 brass buyers and being a reloader, I have a lot 00:42:19.079 --> 00:42:22.519 of different brass. And so I worked with somebody 00:42:22.519 --> 00:42:26.300 who created a stand for me. Very good. And I 00:42:26.300 --> 00:42:28.420 took all these different pieces of brass and 00:42:28.420 --> 00:42:30.969 I mounted it to it and I had them labeled. And 00:42:30.969 --> 00:42:32.909 again, I know the audience isn't going to see 00:42:32.909 --> 00:42:36.349 what I'm talking about, but basically, you know, 00:42:36.349 --> 00:42:38.030 somebody in class says, well, what's the difference 00:42:38.030 --> 00:42:40.670 between 38 Special and 357? Well, they're right 00:42:40.670 --> 00:42:42.989 next to each other right here. Let's have that 00:42:42.989 --> 00:42:45.510 conversation. What's that huge thing on top? 00:42:45.670 --> 00:42:48.429 Why would I ever want to own one of those? Which 00:42:48.429 --> 00:42:50.710 of these costs the least amount of money per 00:42:50.710 --> 00:42:53.230 shot? We can have that conversation. We can also 00:42:53.230 --> 00:42:57.039 talk about rimfire versus centerfire. Just, you 00:42:57.039 --> 00:43:00.679 know, again, developing training aids that make 00:43:00.679 --> 00:43:04.199 the class that much better for the students so 00:43:04.199 --> 00:43:07.880 they have a really good outcome. My favorite 00:43:07.880 --> 00:43:10.599 ones, again, sticking with ammo, and I did not 00:43:10.599 --> 00:43:14.059 create this. I found this and had somebody. make 00:43:14.059 --> 00:43:16.360 these for me but when you're talking about ammunition 00:43:16.360 --> 00:43:19.760 and you're talking about well what are the components 00:43:19.760 --> 00:43:22.079 of a cartridge and what is the firing sequence 00:43:22.079 --> 00:43:25.679 yeah using some models that somebody can take 00:43:25.679 --> 00:43:28.679 apart and put back together you know it's a 3d 00:43:28.679 --> 00:43:31.400 printed model and when you're talking about well 00:43:31.400 --> 00:43:33.900 the you know the firing pin strikes the primer 00:43:33.900 --> 00:43:36.940 the what well it's this little thing down here 00:43:36.940 --> 00:43:39.059 it strikes you know it strikes the this little 00:43:39.059 --> 00:43:42.159 circle on the end of the cartridge well what's 00:43:42.159 --> 00:43:44.159 what's a primer look like well you know here's 00:43:44.159 --> 00:43:46.360 a giant one you know i can hand it to you and 00:43:46.360 --> 00:43:50.230 you can see what a primer looks like I'd be interested 00:43:50.230 --> 00:43:52.489 in buying those. I would be interested in buying 00:43:52.489 --> 00:43:54.309 those if you guys actually sell them or you knew 00:43:54.309 --> 00:43:55.929 the locations of those because those are great 00:43:55.929 --> 00:43:58.949 training aids. There's actually those I got from 00:43:58.949 --> 00:44:02.090 a seller on Etsy. If you just go on Etsy and 00:44:02.090 --> 00:44:05.030 look up that as a training aid. I'll order it 00:44:05.030 --> 00:44:08.670 tonight. Thank you. I like them. So another exercise 00:44:08.670 --> 00:44:10.929 we do, I really like this one. And again, this 00:44:10.929 --> 00:44:13.880 is for. new shooters, beginning shooters. We're 00:44:13.880 --> 00:44:15.659 talking about ammunition and we're talking about 00:44:15.659 --> 00:44:17.400 how do you select the correct ammunition for 00:44:17.400 --> 00:44:20.519 your gun? And the answer is you check the gun 00:44:20.519 --> 00:44:24.440 either on the barrel or the slide. So it'd be 00:44:24.440 --> 00:44:26.480 the barrel if it's, for example, an M &P. If 00:44:26.480 --> 00:44:29.000 it's a Glock, it'll be on the slide. You look 00:44:29.000 --> 00:44:32.219 at the head stamp of the cartridge. You look 00:44:32.219 --> 00:44:34.820 at the box. And then, of course, you can also 00:44:34.820 --> 00:44:37.239 look in your owner's manual. So one of the things 00:44:37.239 --> 00:44:41.420 I've done is collected a whole bunch of ammo 00:44:41.420 --> 00:44:44.480 box is just the cardboard sleeve, and I've laminated 00:44:44.480 --> 00:44:48.519 them. And I have a huge stack of these. They 00:44:48.519 --> 00:44:51.539 come in lots of different calibers. And as a 00:44:51.539 --> 00:44:54.619 part of the course, and this is above and beyond 00:44:54.619 --> 00:44:57.880 the curriculum that we're using, but I will hand 00:44:57.880 --> 00:45:00.400 a stack of these to each student, and I'll hand 00:45:00.400 --> 00:45:04.199 them a handful of dummy cartridges, and I'll 00:45:04.199 --> 00:45:07.809 hand them some empty magazines. And I will tell 00:45:07.809 --> 00:45:10.090 them, okay, I need you to organize the calibers. 00:45:10.090 --> 00:45:12.869 I need you to then load them into the correct 00:45:12.869 --> 00:45:15.349 magazine and put the magazine down on top of 00:45:15.349 --> 00:45:17.849 the correct laminated box. Do people get that 00:45:17.849 --> 00:45:20.610 wrong? Do they have struggle with that? Well, 00:45:20.690 --> 00:45:22.989 what they really struggle with is, and I wouldn't 00:45:22.989 --> 00:45:26.050 say struggle. What they find most difficult is 00:45:26.050 --> 00:45:29.010 where the heck on the box does it say what the 00:45:29.010 --> 00:45:32.380 caliber is? These boxes. might look very identical 00:45:32.380 --> 00:45:35.860 one of these might be 40 versus 45 you have the 00:45:35.860 --> 00:45:39.179 box right the whole point of the exercise is 00:45:39.179 --> 00:45:43.159 to read the box read the cartridge and then have 00:45:43.159 --> 00:45:46.300 a magazine there that you can load and some students 00:45:46.300 --> 00:45:52.480 um i would say the the most uh the most uh one 00:45:52.480 --> 00:45:53.840 i don't know how to describe it the one they 00:45:53.840 --> 00:45:56.239 get the wrong the most is they'll mix up 380 00:45:56.239 --> 00:45:58.730 and nine millimeter they'll put the the 380 dummy 00:45:58.730 --> 00:46:00.909 cartridges in the nine millimeter magazine, which 00:46:00.909 --> 00:46:04.650 I think is a completely legitimate thing for 00:46:04.650 --> 00:46:07.389 a new shooter to accidentally do. I would think 00:46:07.389 --> 00:46:10.630 it'd be 380 and 38 special, but I can, you know, 00:46:10.630 --> 00:46:12.929 obviously one's rimmed a lot longer and so on 00:46:12.929 --> 00:46:15.289 and so forth, but because the numbers are the 00:46:15.289 --> 00:46:18.340 same in the, you know, the. zero on the end of 00:46:18.340 --> 00:46:21.820 the 30 point 38 doesn't matter but it does yeah 00:46:21.820 --> 00:46:23.880 that that would be where i would think the errors 00:46:23.880 --> 00:46:26.480 would be oh no i mean loading the magazine i 00:46:26.480 --> 00:46:29.199 mean they oh you mean actually loading okay yeah 00:46:29.199 --> 00:46:31.000 so they're actually loading dummy cartridges 00:46:31.000 --> 00:46:33.539 into a magazine and then putting that on top 00:46:33.539 --> 00:46:36.960 of the the box and so they're matching everything 00:46:36.960 --> 00:46:40.780 up the the ammo the magazine and and the uh writing 00:46:40.780 --> 00:46:44.409 on the box and so you know i'll get some three 00:46:44.409 --> 00:46:46.550 eighties loaded into a nine millimeter magazine. 00:46:46.650 --> 00:46:49.969 But again, I mean, totally understandable. Sure. 00:46:50.349 --> 00:46:54.889 I have a two part question here. So it's kind 00:46:54.889 --> 00:46:56.769 of a positive and a negative. And if there's 00:46:56.769 --> 00:46:58.570 positives, you can mention names. And if there's 00:46:58.570 --> 00:47:00.789 negatives, I would request that you don't, but 00:47:00.789 --> 00:47:03.780 I'm assuming that you still. you know also train 00:47:03.780 --> 00:47:06.440 yourself and you take classes and and you know 00:47:06.440 --> 00:47:08.780 and maybe some of your ideas on training aids 00:47:08.780 --> 00:47:12.000 and things have been inspired by either positives 00:47:12.000 --> 00:47:14.539 or or deficiencies that you've seen in other 00:47:14.539 --> 00:47:16.820 classes and if you want to mention who you think 00:47:16.820 --> 00:47:18.239 other good trainers are you can go ahead and 00:47:18.239 --> 00:47:20.719 do that but if you also experience what at least 00:47:20.719 --> 00:47:23.199 in the Navy, we would refer to as negative training. 00:47:23.300 --> 00:47:25.699 And negative training would be things that run 00:47:25.699 --> 00:47:27.980 counter to doctrine or things that run counter 00:47:27.980 --> 00:47:32.079 to best practices. And perhaps you have an example 00:47:32.079 --> 00:47:35.639 or two of that. Yeah, sure. Actually, fun story. 00:47:36.179 --> 00:47:39.659 Wasn't fun live in person, but it turns out to 00:47:39.659 --> 00:47:42.099 be a fun story because I tell it to almost all 00:47:42.099 --> 00:47:44.960 my students who come in for pistol class. It's 00:47:44.960 --> 00:47:49.280 not uncommon that retired veterans will take 00:47:49.280 --> 00:47:52.940 my class. um either to learn a new skill or just 00:47:52.940 --> 00:47:55.579 to take a class or you know that i mean we've 00:47:55.579 --> 00:47:59.139 had every branch of the military i've had a retired 00:47:59.139 --> 00:48:03.239 idf um you know these people you know tell us 00:48:03.239 --> 00:48:05.980 they have great stories during lunch uh retired 00:48:05.980 --> 00:48:09.840 older guy a retired army uh i don't remember 00:48:09.840 --> 00:48:12.460 what his uh job was in the army he had told me 00:48:12.460 --> 00:48:15.579 about it but anyway when we're we were differentiating 00:48:15.579 --> 00:48:20.710 uh grip for semi -auto versus revolver He immediately 00:48:20.710 --> 00:48:25.730 started lecturing me on the teacup grip position 00:48:25.730 --> 00:48:31.150 for a revolver. And in the moment, I wasn't expecting 00:48:31.150 --> 00:48:34.909 somebody to start actually arguing with me that 00:48:34.909 --> 00:48:38.110 I'm teaching grip incorrectly. You mean he was 00:48:38.110 --> 00:48:41.650 an advocate of teacup? His grandpa taught him 00:48:41.650 --> 00:48:45.809 teacup and his dad shot teacup. And that's just 00:48:45.809 --> 00:48:49.789 how he learned how to shoot a revolver. I'm pretty 00:48:49.789 --> 00:48:53.889 good at dancing in these scenarios. So I know 00:48:53.889 --> 00:48:56.769 how to listen to a customer and hear them out 00:48:56.769 --> 00:49:02.550 and formulate some type of feedback. So I think 00:49:02.550 --> 00:49:04.369 that meets your criteria for a negative training 00:49:04.369 --> 00:49:09.269 example. The path I went down was, if you're 00:49:09.269 --> 00:49:12.710 already familiar with that, and you're accurate 00:49:12.710 --> 00:49:14.510 with that, and you feel like you'll be successful 00:49:14.510 --> 00:49:17.880 on the range today with that, by all means. Please 00:49:17.880 --> 00:49:22.599 do it that way. I'm not here to change your beliefs 00:49:22.599 --> 00:49:25.860 in this. What I would suggest to you is that 00:49:25.860 --> 00:49:28.760 that's a very difficult unsupported position 00:49:28.760 --> 00:49:31.559 because you're really relying on your shooting 00:49:31.559 --> 00:49:34.519 hand to also be the support. The shooting hand 00:49:34.519 --> 00:49:36.480 has to do two things. It has to hold the gun 00:49:36.480 --> 00:49:39.599 and it has to operate the trigger. So it can't 00:49:39.599 --> 00:49:42.480 do 100 % of the holding and it also can't do 00:49:42.480 --> 00:49:45.710 100 % of the operating the trigger. It has to 00:49:45.710 --> 00:49:48.449 do a combination of both. And if you're not gripping 00:49:48.449 --> 00:49:50.150 the gun and what would be more of a standard 00:49:50.150 --> 00:49:52.570 two handed grip, you're selling yourself short. 00:49:52.630 --> 00:49:55.389 But, you know, we'll see what happens when we 00:49:55.389 --> 00:49:57.610 get out on the range. Right. If you're comfortable 00:49:57.610 --> 00:50:00.590 that way, then do it that way. Well, for a second 00:50:00.590 --> 00:50:02.949 shot follow up, it's terrible. I mean, for one 00:50:02.949 --> 00:50:04.829 shot, it might be fine. But for a second shot 00:50:04.829 --> 00:50:07.769 follow ups, that's not a good. Well, and and 00:50:07.769 --> 00:50:10.289 for a basic pistol class like NRA basics of pistol 00:50:10.289 --> 00:50:14.010 shooting follow up shot. Yes, through fundamentals 00:50:14.010 --> 00:50:15.849 and follow through and everything, you should 00:50:15.849 --> 00:50:17.730 be in a good position to do a follow up shot. 00:50:17.849 --> 00:50:20.070 But we're not doing self -defense shooting. We're 00:50:20.070 --> 00:50:23.650 not doing shot timer, par time or anything in 00:50:23.650 --> 00:50:26.849 that course. It's a basics course. So, you know, 00:50:26.849 --> 00:50:30.050 being able to readjust your position, your hand 00:50:30.050 --> 00:50:32.900 position. and re -aim and get back on target 00:50:32.900 --> 00:50:36.420 is totally legitimate in that class. If people 00:50:36.420 --> 00:50:39.760 don't know what a teacup hold is, I would recommend 00:50:39.760 --> 00:50:42.880 that you look up any police shows from like the 00:50:42.880 --> 00:50:45.340 late 60s all the way through perhaps the early 00:50:45.340 --> 00:50:48.719 80s and in the 70s and things like that. You 00:50:48.719 --> 00:50:53.059 see these. examples of you know holding the basically 00:50:53.059 --> 00:50:56.820 cupping the bottom of your support or you're 00:50:56.820 --> 00:50:59.119 cupping your support hand in order to hold your 00:50:59.119 --> 00:51:03.360 primary hand which doesn't do much at all for 00:51:03.360 --> 00:51:06.480 recoil or second shot recovery so it's fallen 00:51:06.480 --> 00:51:10.679 out of favor by a long long long time so typically 00:51:10.679 --> 00:51:13.800 when we get out on the range anybody who has 00:51:13.800 --> 00:51:16.300 preconceived ideas of you know something that 00:51:16.300 --> 00:51:19.539 we're not teaching i ask them to show it to me 00:51:19.539 --> 00:51:23.000 because i love learning and i love learning like 00:51:23.000 --> 00:51:25.420 i mentioned from my own skill set but also learning 00:51:25.420 --> 00:51:28.659 to teach and so if there's something that i can 00:51:28.659 --> 00:51:33.300 learn from a student then i want to and because 00:51:33.300 --> 00:51:35.559 the students are the ones that they're going 00:51:35.559 --> 00:51:37.320 to have the best feedback some students come 00:51:37.320 --> 00:51:39.039 to class and they're just a sponge they want 00:51:39.039 --> 00:51:43.659 to absorb everything but some students come to 00:51:43.659 --> 00:51:46.820 class uh last class last uh basics of pistol 00:51:46.820 --> 00:51:50.780 shooting that i taught which was in early january 00:51:50.780 --> 00:51:53.659 one of the people that came to the course i've 00:51:53.659 --> 00:51:55.900 never met him before but he's a competitive shooter 00:51:55.900 --> 00:51:58.320 and the reason he was taking the course is that 00:51:58.320 --> 00:52:01.960 he's actually going through the process of becoming 00:52:01.960 --> 00:52:06.119 an nra instructor so he needed to get the prerequisite 00:52:06.119 --> 00:52:09.340 out of the way he was a phenomenal shooter phenomenal 00:52:09.340 --> 00:52:13.389 shooter And I could tell that when we were going 00:52:13.389 --> 00:52:16.010 through exercises in the classroom and being 00:52:16.010 --> 00:52:19.550 a basics course, he was nodding off. He wasn't 00:52:19.550 --> 00:52:23.889 falling asleep, but he already knew what he needed 00:52:23.889 --> 00:52:27.170 to do. And he proved that when we got out on 00:52:27.170 --> 00:52:31.190 the range, in five minutes, he knocked out all 00:52:31.190 --> 00:52:36.050 four levels of the NRA targets. He was shooting 00:52:36.050 --> 00:52:38.989 instructor level distance at an incredibly tight 00:52:38.989 --> 00:52:41.210 group. You know, within like the first five, 00:52:41.289 --> 00:52:44.050 10 minutes of being out on the range. So now 00:52:44.050 --> 00:52:48.010 I'm asking him questions like, OK, how do you 00:52:48.010 --> 00:52:51.369 do that that well? And see if I can pick some 00:52:51.369 --> 00:52:53.849 things up from him. Oh, there's one other training 00:52:53.849 --> 00:52:56.869 aid I should mention. And again, a lot of these 00:52:56.869 --> 00:53:00.329 things have been self -inspired. The 3D printed 00:53:00.329 --> 00:53:02.090 ammo, again, is something I bought from somebody 00:53:02.090 --> 00:53:06.429 on Etsy. But one of the topics in the NRA basics 00:53:06.429 --> 00:53:08.900 of pistol shooting. when we're talking about 00:53:08.900 --> 00:53:13.059 fundamentals is arc of movement it's that natural 00:53:13.059 --> 00:53:16.039 movement that you have in your arms that you 00:53:16.039 --> 00:53:18.460 can't avoid right if somebody said to you hold 00:53:18.460 --> 00:53:20.679 your arm out perfectly straight in front of you 00:53:20.679 --> 00:53:23.820 and don't move it at all it's physically impossible 00:53:23.820 --> 00:53:27.639 it's going to wiggle a little bit right and arc 00:53:27.639 --> 00:53:31.119 of movement definitely affects shot placement 00:53:31.119 --> 00:53:34.300 so to help students in the classroom understand 00:53:34.300 --> 00:53:36.980 arc of movement a little bit better We've bought 00:53:36.980 --> 00:53:42.760 some of those inexpensive, they're like thin 00:53:42.760 --> 00:53:47.460 picatinny rail lasers that you can just mount 00:53:47.460 --> 00:53:51.119 underneath any semi -automatic pistol. And what 00:53:51.119 --> 00:53:53.500 we'll do in the classroom is I'll snap a few 00:53:53.500 --> 00:53:56.639 of those onto the training pistols and have students 00:53:56.639 --> 00:54:01.300 stand 10, 15 feet away from one of our safe zone 00:54:01.300 --> 00:54:04.760 targets in the classroom and try and hold the 00:54:04.760 --> 00:54:09.760 laser. on the NRA logo. And so that way they 00:54:09.760 --> 00:54:13.199 can see, okay, that's your arc of movement. When 00:54:13.199 --> 00:54:16.539 we get out on the range, expect that to be the 00:54:16.539 --> 00:54:19.400 best you can do today as far as arc of movement. 00:54:19.599 --> 00:54:24.000 So if you're not knocking out the X directly 00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:26.860 in the center of the bullseye, part of it is 00:54:26.860 --> 00:54:31.000 just how your body's built, how God made you. 00:54:31.469 --> 00:54:34.789 And the way you work around that is practice. 00:54:34.949 --> 00:54:37.730 The more you come to the range, the more you'll 00:54:37.730 --> 00:54:40.630 be able to work your arc of movement out of your 00:54:40.630 --> 00:54:45.630 end results. But for today, you should just know 00:54:45.630 --> 00:54:48.150 that you're that way. I was going to say, what's 00:54:48.150 --> 00:54:50.510 a more expensive way to do that, guys? But it's 00:54:50.510 --> 00:54:53.110 also very objective. Ken, you know the answer 00:54:53.110 --> 00:54:58.349 to this, right? The Mantis Titan X? And the X10 00:54:58.349 --> 00:55:01.650 Elite attachment to your regular gun. That's 00:55:01.650 --> 00:55:05.849 true. We are evaluating and we'll be putting 00:55:05.849 --> 00:55:07.869 a show on probably soon about the Mantis Titan 00:55:07.869 --> 00:55:12.690 X, which is basically a Glock 17 Gen 4 or 5, 00:55:12.909 --> 00:55:15.469 probably. Now they're up to X and 6 and whatever 00:55:15.469 --> 00:55:19.530 else. But it's basically a full -size Glock with 00:55:19.530 --> 00:55:23.210 the built -in Mantis motion sensor, the highly 00:55:23.210 --> 00:55:26.389 sensitive motion sensor, and a laser and a decent 00:55:26.389 --> 00:55:31.250 trigger and a removable weighted... Magazine. 00:55:31.250 --> 00:55:34.739 So you can do magazine reload. timings and so 00:55:34.739 --> 00:55:38.639 forth. And the software, the Mantis X or the 00:55:38.639 --> 00:55:41.780 Mantis software is phenomenal. I'm still exploring 00:55:41.780 --> 00:55:45.920 the myriad of options and games and training 00:55:45.920 --> 00:55:48.360 scenarios from holster draws and all sorts of 00:55:48.360 --> 00:55:51.119 things. And they keep adding to it. No, no, they 00:55:51.119 --> 00:55:53.400 keep adding to it. I keep going, I haven't tried 00:55:53.400 --> 00:55:56.380 this one yet. And I'm having a great time with 00:55:56.380 --> 00:55:59.519 it. And I'm going to be introducing that to some 00:55:59.519 --> 00:56:02.639 of the people in the shooting socials and the... 00:56:03.239 --> 00:56:07.420 The Guns and Moses training as well. I'm sorry. 00:56:07.780 --> 00:56:11.960 It occurs to me too that with the constant on 00:56:11.960 --> 00:56:14.239 laser that you're talking about, Jeff, that you 00:56:14.239 --> 00:56:16.239 could also use that for teaching people not to 00:56:16.239 --> 00:56:19.340 flag others. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point. 00:56:19.559 --> 00:56:22.619 That's a really good point. If that arc of movement, 00:56:22.880 --> 00:56:25.760 I mean, in the totality, let's say from going 00:56:25.760 --> 00:56:28.619 from the holster to presentation or just carrying 00:56:28.619 --> 00:56:31.019 the thing around is sweeping through your students, 00:56:31.199 --> 00:56:34.480 you can call them on that. Oh, so I wanted to 00:56:34.480 --> 00:56:36.579 touch on the other type of training that we do. 00:56:36.659 --> 00:56:38.300 So the other thing we do is community events. 00:56:38.380 --> 00:56:40.300 And this is where we get into the charity aspect 00:56:40.300 --> 00:56:44.739 of our training. So once a month, we have a two 00:56:44.739 --> 00:56:46.860 -hour community event at a local range. Now, 00:56:46.920 --> 00:56:50.800 I'm fairly blessed here where I live that there 00:56:50.800 --> 00:56:54.019 are some ranges that actually have, these are 00:56:54.019 --> 00:56:57.250 indoor ranges. that have two ranges in their 00:56:57.250 --> 00:56:59.570 facility one that is sort of the general use 00:56:59.570 --> 00:57:02.409 you walk in pay your money and you get to go 00:57:02.409 --> 00:57:05.150 out on the range and then they'll have what i 00:57:05.150 --> 00:57:06.929 like to refer to as more of like the private 00:57:06.929 --> 00:57:10.090 range or the training range it's a separate range 00:57:10.090 --> 00:57:12.070 either in a different part of the building or 00:57:12.070 --> 00:57:16.030 walled off next door to the general use range 00:57:16.030 --> 00:57:20.170 where we can bring in students and um we have 00:57:20.170 --> 00:57:25.590 uh or they have good programs for NRA, USCCA, 00:57:25.789 --> 00:57:30.250 and other certified instructors to rent those 00:57:30.250 --> 00:57:35.909 facilities at an upfront known cost. So there's 00:57:35.909 --> 00:57:38.130 a couple ranges around here. Obviously, I have 00:57:38.130 --> 00:57:41.610 instructor insurance. I have COIs on file with 00:57:41.610 --> 00:57:45.250 multiple ranges near where I live. So if one's 00:57:45.250 --> 00:57:47.969 busy, I can use a different one. But we still 00:57:47.969 --> 00:57:51.590 get that private range time experience indoors. 00:57:52.360 --> 00:57:55.340 where you know we can work with the students 00:57:55.340 --> 00:57:58.500 and so for our community events we're using those 00:57:58.500 --> 00:58:02.119 private ranges um to hold a community event now 00:58:02.119 --> 00:58:05.179 those ranges are much smaller so the typically 00:58:05.179 --> 00:58:09.739 like five lanes maybe six lanes and when i say 00:58:09.739 --> 00:58:12.079 smaller i'm talking about lanes uh one of them 00:58:12.079 --> 00:58:14.400 in particular is five lanes but is actually 90 00:58:14.400 --> 00:58:18.019 feet long and very well lit and has its own air 00:58:18.019 --> 00:58:20.690 system and everything it's really nice But we'll 00:58:20.690 --> 00:58:24.710 use those so we can have our own activity in 00:58:24.710 --> 00:58:27.710 that room. Now, of course, we're on camera. The 00:58:27.710 --> 00:58:31.210 RSOs at the range, of course, are watching us 00:58:31.210 --> 00:58:34.969 and this and that, right? But we do have our 00:58:34.969 --> 00:58:38.570 own area. People can come to those events either 00:58:38.570 --> 00:58:43.150 at no cost or for a donation. And what we're 00:58:43.150 --> 00:58:46.250 doing is essentially creating a community event 00:58:46.250 --> 00:58:48.369 that simulates what would it be like if you just 00:58:48.369 --> 00:58:51.190 went to the range? Right. I'm going to the range. 00:58:51.369 --> 00:58:53.809 I've never shot a lever action rifle before. 00:58:54.070 --> 00:58:56.030 How do I do that? Come to one of our community. 00:58:56.170 --> 00:58:57.969 Come to the one next week. You want to shoot 00:58:57.969 --> 00:59:00.469 a lever action. We've got a Henry student rifle 00:59:00.469 --> 00:59:04.869 for you. Right. Or I've never shot. I know this 00:59:04.869 --> 00:59:07.070 isn't a topic for every state, but I've never 00:59:07.070 --> 00:59:09.750 shot an SBR. Oh, well, just come to our community 00:59:09.750 --> 00:59:12.849 event. We have an SBR and nine millimeter. You're 00:59:12.849 --> 00:59:16.820 going to love it. Right. So. you know what you 00:59:16.820 --> 00:59:20.559 know i i need to work on a uh particular skill 00:59:20.559 --> 00:59:23.579 so what we do is we'll break down our our participants 00:59:23.579 --> 00:59:26.780 into what skills they're trying to work on if 00:59:26.780 --> 00:59:28.559 they're looking to work on marksmanship skills 00:59:28.559 --> 00:59:32.619 then we just work on the nra civilian marksmanship 00:59:32.619 --> 00:59:35.940 program book that's the book you would get if 00:59:35.940 --> 00:59:39.960 you took any nra course And we'll just do the 00:59:39.960 --> 00:59:43.019 drills in that book. And the good news with those 00:59:43.019 --> 00:59:44.780 drills is not only do they help you with your 00:59:44.780 --> 00:59:49.280 fundamentals, but they are not quick. And a lot 00:59:49.280 --> 00:59:52.440 of them you have to repeat many times. Sometimes 00:59:52.440 --> 00:59:54.760 one of those drills is, okay, you have to do 00:59:54.760 --> 00:59:58.739 this 10, you have to, you know, weak hand, five 00:59:58.739 --> 01:00:02.579 shots, six inch group. repeat 10 times, something 01:00:02.579 --> 01:00:04.760 like that, right? So it does take up some time. 01:00:05.099 --> 01:00:08.800 And then other people may want to work on a self 01:00:08.800 --> 01:00:10.559 -defense skill. Well, those are a little bit 01:00:10.559 --> 01:00:14.800 trickier to work on in a stall because you're 01:00:14.800 --> 01:00:16.920 behind the stall and, you know, you've got your 01:00:16.920 --> 01:00:19.599 little table there. But there are some skills 01:00:19.599 --> 01:00:24.519 that we can work on that are in the course of 01:00:24.519 --> 01:00:27.179 fire for NRA basic personal protection in the 01:00:27.179 --> 01:00:31.469 home. has a few drills that you can work on from 01:00:31.469 --> 01:00:34.289 behind a stall. And there's a few that are my 01:00:34.289 --> 01:00:37.889 favorite because it's a good teaching moment 01:00:37.889 --> 01:00:40.650 for students with some of these for them to see, 01:00:40.769 --> 01:00:43.789 you know, am I just a good stationary shooter? 01:00:43.889 --> 01:00:46.889 Or, you know, what is the reality of my skill 01:00:46.889 --> 01:00:51.429 set if I have to move my arm or, you know, come 01:00:51.429 --> 01:00:54.110 up from low ready or some, you know, just introducing 01:00:54.110 --> 01:00:57.480 a little bit of movement and then check to see 01:00:57.480 --> 01:01:00.000 just how good they are with that just smidge 01:01:00.000 --> 01:01:01.619 of extra movement in their hand so we'll work 01:01:01.619 --> 01:01:05.760 on self -defense skills that way as well um something 01:01:05.760 --> 01:01:08.980 and literally we'll do all these things so somebody 01:01:08.980 --> 01:01:12.179 says hey i just got this uh brand new whatever 01:01:12.179 --> 01:01:16.639 uh micro compact something and i put a red dot 01:01:16.639 --> 01:01:19.460 on it and it's installed but it's not zeroed 01:01:19.460 --> 01:01:22.659 great we have a bench rest come and we'll work 01:01:22.659 --> 01:01:25.349 on zeroing your red dot and we'll we'll spend 01:01:25.349 --> 01:01:27.909 you know whatever time you need there just doing 01:01:27.909 --> 01:01:31.389 that and will it be 100 by the end of it no but 01:01:31.389 --> 01:01:36.570 it'll be 85 90 um so we we can do that we won't 01:01:36.570 --> 01:01:39.070 install i should give a disclaimer we're not 01:01:39.070 --> 01:01:41.809 gunsmithing we're definitely not taking pistols 01:01:41.809 --> 01:01:44.699 apart on the range if you come to the range with 01:01:44.699 --> 01:01:47.699 your pistol a brand new red dot installed on 01:01:47.699 --> 01:01:49.980 it it's installed properly and you say i want 01:01:49.980 --> 01:01:52.079 to zero it we will absolutely help you with that 01:01:52.079 --> 01:01:54.960 if you come to the range with your pistol and 01:01:54.960 --> 01:01:58.599 your brand new red red dot in the original manufacturer's 01:01:58.599 --> 01:02:01.840 box and say i need this thing installed so i 01:02:01.840 --> 01:02:04.900 can zero it the answer is you need to have to 01:02:04.900 --> 01:02:06.840 already have it installed on the range we're 01:02:06.840 --> 01:02:11.099 not taking our eyes off the firing line to install 01:02:11.099 --> 01:02:15.460 red dots um and uh we're you know while i'm i'm 01:02:15.460 --> 01:02:17.460 going to say we're not gunsmiths obviously installing 01:02:17.460 --> 01:02:20.039 a red dot does not require a great deal of skill 01:02:20.039 --> 01:02:22.440 but we're not here to work on your no that's 01:02:22.440 --> 01:02:24.579 a waste of time i mean you're wasting other people's 01:02:24.579 --> 01:02:26.380 time because you're not doing you're doing probably 01:02:26.380 --> 01:02:29.260 group classes and and spending your time doing 01:02:29.260 --> 01:02:31.559 that is not what other people came to experience 01:02:31.559 --> 01:02:37.409 we have a very very very high I don't know what 01:02:37.409 --> 01:02:39.829 you'd call it, reoccurring or re -attendance. 01:02:39.849 --> 01:02:41.570 The people that come to our community events 01:02:41.570 --> 01:02:45.570 tend to come back. So where you go to a full 01:02:45.570 --> 01:02:47.909 -day course, you go to that course, and then 01:02:47.909 --> 01:02:51.190 the course is over. So maybe you come to the 01:02:51.190 --> 01:02:54.389 next course. But our community events, we truly 01:02:54.389 --> 01:02:57.510 are building some community around those events. 01:02:57.750 --> 01:03:00.750 For those repeat customers, are they coming back? 01:03:00.829 --> 01:03:02.849 Well, okay, it's a good experience, and maybe 01:03:02.849 --> 01:03:04.329 it didn't cost them much, maybe it cost them 01:03:04.329 --> 01:03:07.239 nothing. I assume that part of this is maybe 01:03:07.239 --> 01:03:10.760 by metrics that you keep, because you said you're 01:03:10.760 --> 01:03:14.019 a data person, that they are having their progress 01:03:14.019 --> 01:03:16.739 tracked, and maybe there's incentives for improvement 01:03:16.739 --> 01:03:19.260 or something like that, accessibility to better 01:03:19.260 --> 01:03:21.699 classes. Perhaps you're helping them with their 01:03:21.699 --> 01:03:25.519 CCW class, which may have different requirements 01:03:25.519 --> 01:03:29.860 in your state, and perhaps your CCW in Ohio extends 01:03:29.860 --> 01:03:34.219 to other states. maybe getting the word out to 01:03:34.219 --> 01:03:36.719 attract new students and retain the ones you've 01:03:36.719 --> 01:03:41.619 got? So we have a lot of word of mouth and we 01:03:41.619 --> 01:03:46.460 do some advertising on Facebook, but to be honest, 01:03:46.559 --> 01:03:49.519 we need to do a better job of that. We're not, 01:03:49.639 --> 01:03:52.119 I mean, so High Value Training Academy has been 01:03:52.119 --> 01:03:56.179 around since 2023, but as far as really having 01:03:56.179 --> 01:03:59.360 the bandwidth and some donations to be able to 01:03:59.360 --> 01:04:02.150 engage with the community. in a meaningful way 01:04:02.150 --> 01:04:04.869 that's really that really started about four 01:04:04.869 --> 01:04:09.409 or five months ago for us oh really new so well 01:04:09.409 --> 01:04:11.429 we've been teaching classes i've been teaching 01:04:11.429 --> 01:04:13.769 classes under the high value training academy 01:04:13.769 --> 01:04:21.190 badge for years and i've been doing very small 01:04:21.190 --> 01:04:25.510 group community events for free and or for donations 01:04:25.510 --> 01:04:28.309 for years. But as far as really getting the word 01:04:28.309 --> 01:04:31.329 out in a big way and making ourselves known to 01:04:31.329 --> 01:04:33.849 the community and actively, like I mentioned, 01:04:33.869 --> 01:04:36.030 we have a board member who's focused on donations 01:04:36.030 --> 01:04:39.530 and fundraising. You know, that's probably the 01:04:39.530 --> 01:04:42.190 last four or five months that we're really picking 01:04:42.190 --> 01:04:44.710 up steam. And it all has to do with, like you 01:04:44.710 --> 01:04:46.670 mentioned before, you know, there are real costs 01:04:46.670 --> 01:04:50.460 to doing these things. And so There's the things 01:04:50.460 --> 01:04:52.719 you can do at the beginning, like with any organization 01:04:52.719 --> 01:04:54.719 with the limited funds that you have. And as 01:04:54.719 --> 01:04:58.780 funds become more available, then you can do 01:04:58.780 --> 01:05:01.760 more things like how do we afford to do a community 01:05:01.760 --> 01:05:04.619 event for two hours where we're renting a private 01:05:04.619 --> 01:05:09.960 range for our own event for two hours for students 01:05:09.960 --> 01:05:12.280 who are going to register and come and their 01:05:12.280 --> 01:05:14.519 instruction, their range time and their targets 01:05:14.519 --> 01:05:18.090 are included. They can use our pistols. For some 01:05:18.090 --> 01:05:19.929 of these people, unless they choose to make a 01:05:19.929 --> 01:05:21.969 donation, their only true out -of -pocket cost 01:05:21.969 --> 01:05:25.829 is ammunition. So how do we do that? Well, we 01:05:25.829 --> 01:05:29.710 had to raise funds to be able to schedule all 01:05:29.710 --> 01:05:35.449 of 2026 to do that. But we also extend some of 01:05:35.449 --> 01:05:39.570 our donations to our full -day classes. So I 01:05:39.570 --> 01:05:41.389 mentioned before, if you register for a class, 01:05:41.489 --> 01:05:44.690 take a class, that's not a... charitable contribution 01:05:44.690 --> 01:05:47.110 that that's a course that's a you know fee right 01:05:47.110 --> 01:05:51.809 but we keep our course fees insanely low so nra 01:05:51.809 --> 01:05:55.789 basics of pistol shooting which if taught properly 01:05:55.789 --> 01:05:59.710 may meet the ohio revised code for applying for 01:05:59.710 --> 01:06:04.150 a ccw permit in ohio we will use some of our 01:06:04.150 --> 01:06:06.650 funds to get the cost of that class down to about 01:06:06.650 --> 01:06:12.099 80 to 85 dollars per student Our basics of rifle 01:06:12.099 --> 01:06:13.880 shooting, we treat it a little bit differently 01:06:13.880 --> 01:06:16.980 because rifle shooting extends to youth. If you 01:06:16.980 --> 01:06:21.000 look at scouting programs, youth rifle clubs, 01:06:21.420 --> 01:06:23.739 when you're talking pistols and handguns and 01:06:23.739 --> 01:06:26.159 self -defense, you're not teaching youth. So 01:06:26.159 --> 01:06:28.380 what we'll do for basics of rifle shooting is 01:06:28.380 --> 01:06:32.400 we keep our course consistently priced at $125 01:06:32.400 --> 01:06:37.800 per student. However, what we use our funds for 01:06:37.800 --> 01:06:41.170 is... any parent who wants to bring their child 01:06:41.170 --> 01:06:46.630 and the age range for that is what are the range 01:06:46.630 --> 01:06:52.010 rules so if the youth child teenager is of an 01:06:52.010 --> 01:06:57.510 age that the range will allow them to be on range 01:06:57.510 --> 01:07:00.619 with a parent who signs the range waiver then 01:07:00.619 --> 01:07:03.039 we'll have them in class. My only criteria for 01:07:03.039 --> 01:07:05.639 classes, will they sit through class? But as 01:07:05.639 --> 01:07:07.619 far as are they allowed on the range, that is 01:07:07.619 --> 01:07:11.340 a range rule and a range policy associated with 01:07:11.340 --> 01:07:17.139 the range waiver. So we will do, your youth student 01:07:17.139 --> 01:07:21.539 is 100 % free of charge with paid attending parents. 01:07:21.699 --> 01:07:25.079 So you cannot drop your kids off with us and 01:07:25.079 --> 01:07:31.300 have them take free rifle classes. Right. But 01:07:31.300 --> 01:07:34.800 if you want to take our class and you want to 01:07:34.800 --> 01:07:37.539 bring your 14 -year -old son, daughter to class, 01:07:37.800 --> 01:07:40.480 they're 100 % free. And when I say free, I mean 01:07:40.480 --> 01:07:43.000 we are covering their books. Obviously, they're 01:07:43.000 --> 01:07:45.440 range time. They can use all of our student rifles. 01:07:45.539 --> 01:07:48.420 And we will give each one of those students a 01:07:48.420 --> 01:07:52.980 box of 50 .22LRs to use with our student rifles. 01:07:53.119 --> 01:07:56.880 So the youth are 100 % free with paid attending 01:07:56.880 --> 01:07:59.690 parents. i've had people ask me what if i want 01:07:59.690 --> 01:08:01.849 to bring two of my kids what if i want to bring 01:08:01.849 --> 01:08:06.409 my uh my kid and my my niece or my nephew yeah 01:08:06.409 --> 01:08:08.949 please just just bring them okay paid attending 01:08:08.949 --> 01:08:12.090 parent as long as they can sit through class 01:08:12.090 --> 01:08:14.769 so if after five minutes they need to go play 01:08:14.769 --> 01:08:17.390 games on their iphone they're not a good candidate 01:08:17.390 --> 01:08:20.250 but if they can sit through a full day class 01:08:20.250 --> 01:08:23.250 and you feel like they'll be okay out on the 01:08:23.250 --> 01:08:25.930 range then yeah i mean just just bring them we're 01:08:25.930 --> 01:08:28.390 not trying to to build limits here. We're trying 01:08:28.390 --> 01:08:32.250 to provide firearm safety education to the community. 01:08:32.470 --> 01:08:35.890 So that's one way that we extend our charitableness, 01:08:36.010 --> 01:08:39.489 I guess, to some of the full -day classes. And 01:08:39.489 --> 01:08:42.289 then we also get requests from religious groups, 01:08:42.470 --> 01:08:47.670 churches and synagogues. I've had college fraternities 01:08:47.670 --> 01:08:50.989 hit me up. What can we do for them on a limited 01:08:50.989 --> 01:08:54.689 budget? And they showed up sober? They better 01:08:54.689 --> 01:08:59.079 show up sober. i was in one so like you know 01:08:59.079 --> 01:09:04.699 humor in alcohol and firearms do not mix yeah 01:09:04.699 --> 01:09:08.220 yeah i never recommended that we went to a range 01:09:08.220 --> 01:09:10.800 after a party or something like that or or as 01:09:10.800 --> 01:09:12.960 an initiation event either that would be maybe 01:09:12.960 --> 01:09:16.060 we get you probably in trouble sure yeah well 01:09:16.060 --> 01:09:18.119 it will definitely get you in trouble here in 01:09:18.119 --> 01:09:21.460 ohio it's a zero tolerance policy yeah so what 01:09:21.460 --> 01:09:24.710 so why would Someone, it sounds like you've already 01:09:24.710 --> 01:09:26.850 kind of gone over it by virtue of the creativity 01:09:26.850 --> 01:09:30.550 you've got and things like that in your training 01:09:30.550 --> 01:09:33.109 aids and how you make the experience better. 01:09:33.310 --> 01:09:35.489 But why shouldn't, I mean, if this is a no -cost 01:09:35.489 --> 01:09:39.430 class, but it still has the value of a paid class. 01:09:40.569 --> 01:09:44.369 Okay, if I'm teaching, I have a sister -in -law 01:09:44.369 --> 01:09:48.409 who's interested in learning to shoot. Why not 01:09:48.409 --> 01:09:50.430 just go with me to the range? Why not just go 01:09:50.430 --> 01:09:53.090 with her friend who used to be a cop? why not 01:09:53.090 --> 01:09:55.210 just go with a relative who used to be in the 01:09:55.210 --> 01:09:58.569 military what's the benefit of using a professional 01:09:58.569 --> 01:10:02.270 training organization like yours sure well if 01:10:02.270 --> 01:10:05.989 you're thinking about i just want to try this 01:10:05.989 --> 01:10:07.810 i don't know that i want to go to a full -day 01:10:07.810 --> 01:10:10.649 class but in my head i've been thinking about 01:10:10.649 --> 01:10:13.829 going to the range i think unfortunately it's 01:10:13.829 --> 01:10:15.810 something that people don't talk enough about 01:10:15.810 --> 01:10:18.529 so like if you're 16 and you go to your parents 01:10:18.529 --> 01:10:21.329 and you say hey mom dad I want to go do something 01:10:21.329 --> 01:10:23.550 dangerous today. I want to learn how to drive 01:10:23.550 --> 01:10:26.630 a car, but I'm committed to learning how to do 01:10:26.630 --> 01:10:29.630 it, earning my license, and I will be a safe 01:10:29.630 --> 01:10:31.789 driver. I'll stay in my lane. I won't speed. 01:10:32.369 --> 01:10:34.909 I will use my turn signals, right? And we practice 01:10:34.909 --> 01:10:36.569 that every day. So there's nothing wrong with 01:10:36.569 --> 01:10:39.229 saying, I want to go do this dangerous thing, 01:10:39.270 --> 01:10:42.439 driving a car. If you said, well, hey, mom, dad, 01:10:42.479 --> 01:10:44.960 I want to go skydiving. One parent might say, 01:10:45.079 --> 01:10:47.659 oh, wow, that's awesome. And the other parent's 01:10:47.659 --> 01:10:49.439 going to say, what are you crazy? You could injure 01:10:49.439 --> 01:10:52.079 yourself. But when it comes to people thinking 01:10:52.079 --> 01:10:54.260 about maybe going to the range for the first 01:10:54.260 --> 01:10:57.399 time, there's a lot of people that just simply 01:10:57.399 --> 01:11:01.159 don't articulate that because maybe their family, 01:11:01.220 --> 01:11:04.420 their social circle doesn't have the knowledge 01:11:04.420 --> 01:11:06.699 and expertise or maybe their family or social 01:11:06.699 --> 01:11:10.550 circle. It's just not a topic. Like if you bring 01:11:10.550 --> 01:11:14.409 it up, you might face some ridicule for just 01:11:14.409 --> 01:11:18.750 mentioning it. So I look at our community events 01:11:18.750 --> 01:11:21.630 as a way for people, especially new shooters, 01:11:21.710 --> 01:11:25.729 to have this experience in a way in which they 01:11:25.729 --> 01:11:27.670 don't even really have to spend a lot of money 01:11:27.670 --> 01:11:29.609 to do it. Because if you think about what it 01:11:29.609 --> 01:11:32.369 costs just to go to the range, let's say I'm 01:11:32.369 --> 01:11:34.289 a new shooter. I've never done this before and 01:11:34.289 --> 01:11:35.810 I want to go to the range for the first time. 01:11:36.510 --> 01:11:39.890 i'm paying to rent the stall i'm renting a pistol 01:11:39.890 --> 01:11:43.069 i'm buying a box of ammo and maybe paying for 01:11:43.069 --> 01:11:45.590 somebody to come out on the range with me to 01:11:45.590 --> 01:11:47.350 show me how the heck to do this because i've 01:11:47.350 --> 01:11:48.789 never done it before and i've heard that it's 01:11:48.789 --> 01:11:51.350 dangerous you know i've seen enough movies and 01:11:51.350 --> 01:11:55.289 tv shows so we're trying to take all of that 01:11:55.289 --> 01:11:59.090 off the table and and we want to get those people 01:11:59.090 --> 01:12:01.930 when i say we have very high retention rate re 01:12:01.930 --> 01:12:04.130 reoccurring students at our community events 01:12:04.750 --> 01:12:06.949 they are bringing their family members. They're 01:12:06.949 --> 01:12:09.729 bringing the aunt who was in town for holidays. 01:12:10.710 --> 01:12:13.970 They're, you know, their brother who shot guns 01:12:13.970 --> 01:12:16.810 once six years ago, but hasn't done it in a while. 01:12:17.029 --> 01:12:19.729 They're bringing that person. And so what I would 01:12:19.729 --> 01:12:22.310 say is, you know, why people would want to come 01:12:22.310 --> 01:12:25.390 to us is, one, again, we're very outcome focused. 01:12:25.470 --> 01:12:28.970 The most important thing to me, and I say it 01:12:28.970 --> 01:12:31.270 to students, is education, empowerment, and fun. 01:12:31.680 --> 01:12:34.399 So you are objectively tracking progress and 01:12:34.399 --> 01:12:36.779 letting people see that feedback, like how they 01:12:36.779 --> 01:12:39.439 did better, or you have some way to maybe encourage 01:12:39.439 --> 01:12:44.399 them by virtue of improved skills? Yeah, so students 01:12:44.399 --> 01:12:46.920 who come to the community events who want to 01:12:46.920 --> 01:12:49.920 focus on marksmanship, we're using the NRA Civilian 01:12:49.920 --> 01:12:55.220 Marksmanship Guide for drills. And on the NRA's 01:12:55.220 --> 01:12:58.739 website, you can download a tracker. So I downloaded 01:12:58.739 --> 01:13:02.239 that tracker, I've converted it to an excel spreadsheet 01:13:02.239 --> 01:13:05.479 which it's it's a very basic spreadsheet and 01:13:05.479 --> 01:13:07.859 what i'll do for students is they're going through 01:13:07.859 --> 01:13:10.380 the marksmanship program i will track their progress 01:13:10.380 --> 01:13:14.600 for them so they don't have to do that now they're 01:13:14.600 --> 01:13:16.579 welcome to do that on their own but i'll i'll 01:13:16.579 --> 01:13:19.460 track that for them as well so when they earn 01:13:19.460 --> 01:13:24.960 a certain um a certain level um they may want 01:13:24.960 --> 01:13:27.260 to go into the nra website and buy the patch 01:13:27.260 --> 01:13:31.539 and the pin associated with that right um I believe 01:13:31.539 --> 01:13:34.119 it's only distinguished marksmen that requires 01:13:34.119 --> 01:13:38.579 actually having an NRA instructor validate your 01:13:38.579 --> 01:13:42.359 results. The other ones are self -paced. So I 01:13:42.359 --> 01:13:45.460 have one student that comes to work on marksmanship 01:13:45.460 --> 01:13:49.600 skills at our community events. And then she 01:13:49.600 --> 01:13:52.060 also works on her marksmanship skills on her 01:13:52.060 --> 01:13:54.420 own. And then when she comes back to one of our 01:13:54.420 --> 01:13:56.880 community events once a month, she's already 01:13:56.880 --> 01:14:00.039 made other progress, right? we kind of manage 01:14:00.039 --> 01:14:03.579 progress that way um i don't know how we would 01:14:03.579 --> 01:14:05.979 do this like you know how we would scale that 01:14:05.979 --> 01:14:09.579 long term right because it is done manually today 01:14:09.579 --> 01:14:14.220 but i mean we are open to any ideas on on how 01:14:14.220 --> 01:14:16.699 to to better track progress when it comes to 01:14:16.699 --> 01:14:19.899 self -defense skills we're not really tracking 01:14:19.899 --> 01:14:23.119 progress what we're doing is we're We're giving 01:14:23.119 --> 01:14:25.260 people a little bit of an extra stressor. Like 01:14:25.260 --> 01:14:27.119 I mentioned, like moving your hands, like coming 01:14:27.119 --> 01:14:29.060 up from a low ready position or something like 01:14:29.060 --> 01:14:32.239 that. And we're just working on shot placement 01:14:32.239 --> 01:14:35.699 for some of those skills and being accountable 01:14:35.699 --> 01:14:37.699 to your fundamentals. When we're talking about 01:14:37.699 --> 01:14:39.319 self -defense, I always say being accountable 01:14:39.319 --> 01:14:41.399 to your fundamentals because where your shots 01:14:41.399 --> 01:14:46.640 go matters a lot, right? And so we're really 01:14:46.640 --> 01:14:48.579 just pushing the fundamentals. We're not really 01:14:48.579 --> 01:14:52.810 writing down progress. So are you then deciding 01:14:52.810 --> 01:14:55.529 on behalf of the students, and as an instructor, 01:14:55.649 --> 01:14:57.550 I'm saying you are qualified to make this decision, 01:14:57.710 --> 01:15:00.109 but are you deciding on their behalf what they 01:15:00.109 --> 01:15:01.949 need to learn, or are you getting feedback that's 01:15:01.949 --> 01:15:04.750 saying, this is what I want to learn, and then 01:15:04.750 --> 01:15:07.029 trying to accommodate what the student's actual 01:15:07.029 --> 01:15:09.810 voiced interest is? Yeah, we ask them ahead of 01:15:09.810 --> 01:15:11.369 time, do you want to work on marksmanship or 01:15:11.369 --> 01:15:15.449 self -defense? We'll give them some drills. If 01:15:15.449 --> 01:15:17.970 it's marksmanship, we use the book, like I mentioned. 01:15:18.050 --> 01:15:23.670 So it's very well -documented, detailed progress 01:15:23.670 --> 01:15:26.409 that you need to make. If they say they want 01:15:26.409 --> 01:15:28.850 to work on self -defense, we would start with 01:15:28.850 --> 01:15:32.250 very basic drills that, again, is just a little 01:15:32.250 --> 01:15:36.390 bit more movement than just stationary isosceles 01:15:36.390 --> 01:15:39.489 standing position shooting. See how they do and 01:15:39.489 --> 01:15:42.760 then work on fundamentals to refine that. And 01:15:42.760 --> 01:15:46.340 then just leverage the course of fire from courses 01:15:46.340 --> 01:15:49.079 like personal protection in the home, personal 01:15:49.079 --> 01:15:52.140 protection outside the home. Borrow what we can 01:15:52.140 --> 01:15:54.819 from those courses of fire to practice at the 01:15:54.819 --> 01:15:56.420 indoor range. We can't do them all at the indoor 01:15:56.420 --> 01:16:00.100 range, but some of them we can do safely and 01:16:00.100 --> 01:16:04.539 within the guidelines of how the range operates. 01:16:05.239 --> 01:16:06.960 The thing I want to close with for high value 01:16:06.960 --> 01:16:09.539 training is in the next three to five years, 01:16:09.699 --> 01:16:13.140 we're looking to grow and be much bigger. We 01:16:13.140 --> 01:16:16.199 have aspirations of having our own training facility. 01:16:16.899 --> 01:16:20.060 We're kind of imagining a facility that maybe 01:16:20.060 --> 01:16:24.079 other instructors would also want to use that, 01:16:24.140 --> 01:16:26.039 you know, maybe it's not a public range. Maybe 01:16:26.039 --> 01:16:29.989 it's a dedicated training facility where. Law 01:16:29.989 --> 01:16:34.350 enforcement could borrow it and other NRA, USCCA 01:16:34.350 --> 01:16:36.689 instructors could come in and use it for their 01:16:36.689 --> 01:16:39.869 courses as well. We definitely are thinking about 01:16:39.869 --> 01:16:41.810 could we put a range in it? Can we have our own 01:16:41.810 --> 01:16:45.949 range and have more control of the types of training 01:16:45.949 --> 01:16:49.609 that we can do by having control of our own range? 01:16:49.829 --> 01:16:53.010 And then how do we extend this to outdoors, leveraging 01:16:53.010 --> 01:16:56.569 the vast number of outdoor ranges that we have 01:16:56.569 --> 01:16:59.640 for sure here in the area? So we have a lot of 01:16:59.640 --> 01:17:04.760 ideas and we are anxious to grow and anxious 01:17:04.760 --> 01:17:07.079 to get in front of as many students as possible. 01:17:07.300 --> 01:17:09.520 Well, are you anxious to grow in the context 01:17:09.520 --> 01:17:13.119 of exporting this to other states and maybe perhaps, 01:17:13.239 --> 01:17:16.539 I'm not saying literally franchise or license 01:17:16.539 --> 01:17:20.100 the model, but something along those lines that 01:17:20.100 --> 01:17:23.939 would allow this type of opportunity to exist 01:17:23.939 --> 01:17:30.539 in other places? I'm probably least astute of 01:17:30.539 --> 01:17:33.819 understanding about charity organizations is 01:17:33.819 --> 01:17:36.579 how to build a war chest of funds that allow 01:17:36.579 --> 01:17:40.420 you to expand that way. It's different than a 01:17:40.420 --> 01:17:42.239 for -profit business where you're thinking, okay, 01:17:42.279 --> 01:17:44.819 I'm going to open my doors. I'm going to sell 01:17:44.819 --> 01:17:47.500 a thing, product or service, that's going to 01:17:47.500 --> 01:17:50.600 generate profit for me. And then I'm going to 01:17:50.600 --> 01:17:54.479 have a break -even period where I'm going to 01:17:54.479 --> 01:17:57.500 run this thing. temporarily at a loss until we 01:17:57.500 --> 01:18:00.119 can break even and so we can start being cash 01:18:00.119 --> 01:18:02.119 flow positive and all of that. You know, when 01:18:02.119 --> 01:18:06.260 we look at a training organization, I would love 01:18:06.260 --> 01:18:08.340 to be able to do that. I would love to meet like 01:18:08.340 --> 01:18:12.380 minded people who feel like that there is a lot 01:18:12.380 --> 01:18:15.979 of value in not just the training, but the student 01:18:15.979 --> 01:18:19.739 outcomes and in a way in which we're really targeting 01:18:19.739 --> 01:18:22.600 communities where people, quite frankly, might 01:18:22.600 --> 01:18:25.020 not be able to afford training. And that's actually 01:18:25.020 --> 01:18:26.899 in our mission statement. If you're legally allowed 01:18:26.899 --> 01:18:29.300 to own a firearm, we want to train regardless 01:18:29.300 --> 01:18:31.779 of your ability to pay full price for a class. 01:18:31.859 --> 01:18:35.520 So if that is exportable somehow, I would love 01:18:35.520 --> 01:18:37.659 to learn how to export it. And I'd love to have 01:18:37.659 --> 01:18:41.319 the donations and contributions to be able to 01:18:41.319 --> 01:18:44.399 do that. So word to our listeners, if there's 01:18:44.399 --> 01:18:46.500 anybody out there who can help along with this, 01:18:46.579 --> 01:18:49.930 I think. i should look over at my wife who's 01:18:49.930 --> 01:18:53.170 sitting across the desk at me who is a cpa whether 01:18:53.170 --> 01:18:56.170 or not labor that is donated to a non -profit 01:18:56.170 --> 01:18:58.770 organization is something that's deductible oh 01:18:58.770 --> 01:19:02.930 she's shaking her head no cash basis taxpayer 01:19:02.930 --> 01:19:06.289 nope can't do that but at least anything monetarily 01:19:06.289 --> 01:19:08.250 that they do or you know at least they'll be 01:19:08.250 --> 01:19:10.369 doing the right thing for the community right 01:19:10.369 --> 01:19:12.170 right oh you know that i guess i should have 01:19:12.170 --> 01:19:14.609 mentioned as well i'm on the board i'm the founder 01:19:14.609 --> 01:19:16.590 of high value training but i'm also a board member 01:19:17.229 --> 01:19:19.210 As a board member, I don't financially benefit 01:19:19.210 --> 01:19:21.750 at all from high -value training. I have taken 01:19:21.750 --> 01:19:26.170 no money home from this organization. It all 01:19:26.170 --> 01:19:28.930 gets put back into what else can we do for the 01:19:28.930 --> 01:19:31.409 community. At some point, maybe I won't be a 01:19:31.409 --> 01:19:33.829 board member. Maybe I could be a paid instructor 01:19:33.829 --> 01:19:37.529 or something like that. But right now, I am donating. 01:19:37.930 --> 01:19:41.470 This is my cause. I am donating my time to this 01:19:41.470 --> 01:19:46.420 cause. planetary size benefits I get from it 01:19:46.420 --> 01:19:49.539 is truly all in the student outcomes. And you 01:19:49.539 --> 01:19:52.220 see, guys, that's why we wanted Jeff on the show 01:19:52.220 --> 01:19:55.199 having, you know, again, not directly experienced 01:19:55.199 --> 01:19:59.279 his training because of the factor of distance 01:19:59.279 --> 01:20:01.699 being in Southern California. I don't get to 01:20:01.699 --> 01:20:05.180 Ohio very often, but at the same time, this is 01:20:05.180 --> 01:20:08.220 a unique opportunity to talk to someone who is, 01:20:08.399 --> 01:20:11.140 I'm not disparaging. people who do things for 01:20:11.140 --> 01:20:13.399 profit. I mean, obviously. No, not at all. But 01:20:13.399 --> 01:20:16.939 this is really a unique opportunity to talk to 01:20:16.939 --> 01:20:18.399 someone who's doing this because it's the right 01:20:18.399 --> 01:20:21.500 thing to do and not with a business angle. But 01:20:21.500 --> 01:20:23.779 again, hey, we're all capitalists here, so we 01:20:23.779 --> 01:20:26.619 don't disparage that. Ken, any final comments 01:20:26.619 --> 01:20:29.840 for Jeff as we close out? No, nothing in particular. 01:20:30.079 --> 01:20:32.699 Really enjoyed the afternoon and talking to you. 01:20:32.760 --> 01:20:35.000 So this was great. Exactly. All right.