WEBVTT

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The problem is if you're eating away at base

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material, hey, it's actually lighter than before.

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That's a great cleaning job, right? But you just

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got to use nitric acid and it'll decrease in

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weight. So it's, you know, when somebody pays

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900 bucks for a suppressor, you got to be very

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careful. Welcome to episode 23 of the Frugal

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Firearms podcast, the Gundy -nominated for best

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podcast of the year, podcast that's here to help

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you save money and, in this case, save your stuff,

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like save your equipment from failure and from

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not working correctly because you didn't take

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care of it. And part of that goes to cleaning

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your gear, keeping it in top order, keeping it

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lubricated. and keeping it ready for you when

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the moment of need arrives. So today we're bringing

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on the CEO of Otis and Shooter's Choice, and

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if you didn't know, they're actually the same

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parent company, Bill Kleftis. Bill, welcome to

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the show, and how are you today, sir? Well, Craig,

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thanks for asking, and I'm just glad to be part

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of today's podcast. So I've listened to you a

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couple other times, Bill, on other... Not quite

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as good podcast as ours, because ours is the

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best, of course. But I have heard you talk about

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the background of the company. And in fact, something

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I don't even know is, like, where does, I don't

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see Otis's, I thought maybe it was an acronym

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for something, and I never saw it in the originator's

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name, so I'm not really sure where that came

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from. But maybe give us a little bit of your

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background, the company's background, and then

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how you became associated with it. Well, no,

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great. Great question. So I've been around for

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a number of years. I've been in three, four,

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three primary industries before coming into the

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firearms industry. I was in HVAC equipment, medical

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device, medical devices and as well as. the rail

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industry working for a multinational. So I've

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been in a lot of different companies, and I've

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known the Williams family for some time, and

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it was a great opportunity that when this opportunity

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came up, the founder, Doreen Williams, and her

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dad kind of had discussion, and I started here

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four years ago on April of 22. uh regarding the

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history of otis so we have been around for 40

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years this is our 40th year that we're celebrating

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and it started back um in a hunting trip when

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doreen was 16 years old hunting with her dad

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and she accidentally had buried the muzzle of

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her of her rifle during a hunting trip into into

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the ground and that was the end of the hunt they

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had to go back home And she was rummaging through

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her grandfather's World War II stuff and found

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a chain and a weight that was used to push out

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squib loads back in the day, back in World War

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II. And she used it. And next thing you know,

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her dad, her dad was a tool and die maker. said

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hey it would be great if we kind of had something

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that we could clean the gun out in the field

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and not have to come back in from a hunt so she

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got an empty shoe polish tin along with the arrangement

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that she had made up and that was the start of

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a cleaning company back on a kitchen table and

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then migrated to the garage and Next thing you

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know, here we are 40 years later with a facility

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employing people from the local area. So wonderful

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story. Regarding the name Otis, that's actually

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her dad's middle name. So his middle name is

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Otis. So Jerry Otis Williams. And it was a tribute.

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to her dad uh when they started the company to

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uh to name it after his middle did he go by otis

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was that like what people called him because

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some people do that no i think i actually i think

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uh the uh otis is uh it's been in the family

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uh legacy um i think there may have been others

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with the middle name or the beginning name otis

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but uh clearly she wanted it to be uh a tribute

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to her dad and uh hence the uh The name of our

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company is Otis Technology. So you are also,

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you're a very busy man. And again, thanks for

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taking the time to come talk to our audience.

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You're the CEO of some other companies. Is that

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true? Well, I have my own training organization,

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Spartan Training Industries. Oh, I didn't know

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that was yours. Yeah, I've done that in the local

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area now for about 12 years in multiple counties

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in northern New York and have trained quite a

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few people, primarily pistols. I am a competitive

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pistol shooter, a three gunner as well. So, you

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know, I've been around firearms all my life,

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but this was a way of being able to to give back.

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And as you can imagine, here in New York, things

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are pretty tough when it comes to firearms ownership.

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I was born in New York. I was born in New York,

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and I'm an escapee from there. So, yeah, just

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north of White Plains, New York is where I grew

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up. I think it's a hold my beer kind of situation

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here, Bill. I mean, we are in California, so

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I don't know if we want to compare notes on who

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suffers more. I know a story or a little bit

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about a story that you had told one of the other,

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like I said, excellent yet inferior to us podcasts

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about your experience in New York training. And

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I think it has to do with learning the lessons

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of de -escalation, suicide prevention, things

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like that, and how that's a, I mean, I know this

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isn't on the topic of gun cleaning, and we're

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going to get to that. But I think that's an important

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message that maybe you want a minute or two to

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talk about. I appreciate that because, quite

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frankly, to me, those three things are, I believe,

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are probably more important than the actual firearm

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training that goes on. Back in 2022, when SCOTUS

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had their famous decision. Things got actually

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worse for New York State residents where instead

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of a four hour class, it's now a 16 hour classroom

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along with a two hour live fire requirement.

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But what three things that they mandated? Actually,

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there was a number of things that they've mandated

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along with content time. was de -escalation techniques,

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situational awareness, and suicide prevention.

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And I dig into those areas more so than all the

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other kind of standard stuff. Because at the

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end of the day, the firearm is of last resort,

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right? Nothing good happens at two o 'clock in

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the morning. So why are you putting yourself

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in a dangerous situation or one where there's

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risk? Life is all about managing risk versus

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reward. Everything fits a standard distribution

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curve. And I drive my kids nuts with that. But

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a lot of people, we believe that we live in a

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binary world, that it's a yes or no. It's a black

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and white. It's a one or a zero. The reality

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is that inputs are constantly changing and you

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have to make an assessment. I make a big deal

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out of the OODA loop. And you always have to

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be able to take in those inputs and be prepared

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to make an adjustment to what you may have considered

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a moment ago to be the right choice. So it's

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an area I think is extremely important. And I

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focus on those areas. And I believe that people

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should take heed to that. You see a lot of things

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on YouTube where people just start. taking situations

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and escalating them things don't have to get

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that way if you if you uh aware that there may

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be other ways to do it that are less risky that

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is you know i'm going to use that as not only

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is that wisdom And I hope your kids appreciate

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the wisdom that they're getting from you, even

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if it does annoy them. But that goes right back

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to a couple of our previous episodes, one of

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them on non -lethal options like tear gas that

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we did in the hierarchy of escalation of force.

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And the other one is if you get to that moment

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where you have to make that ultimate decision.

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having the right legal counsel behind you. We

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did a episode with Kent Brown, who's CEO of CCW

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Safe. And, you know, thinking holistically about

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the entire package of self -defense, you absolutely

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hit the nail on the head, Bill. I absolutely

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love that. So, okay, two of your companies are

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Shooter's Choice and Otis. And I'd like to see

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from your perspective, how do they differ? Because,

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I mean, this is Frugal Firearms Podcast, so we're

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all about value. And maybe you can articulate,

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you know, the value proposition for both of those

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companies. Yeah, again, another great point.

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You know, Otis has, from day one, built its reputation

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on being a solid, made in USA. battle -proven

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product because we've been supplying the U .S.

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military for 30 years. So clearly when our soldiers

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are deployed downrange, they need to make sure

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that they have cleaning equipment that is durable,

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that it works, and ready for use when they need

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to. We continue to employ that same product.

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methodology quality and so forth not just on

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our military products but for our commercial

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products that have the otis name a number of

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years ago the shooter's choice product became

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available and otis purchased shooters choice

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and they they were born about the same time frame

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as as otis i think within a year or two uh difference

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um and and uh one of the things that that shooter's

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choice was absolutely known for was its chemicals

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there there was a time that they had cleaning

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equipment as well but we employed some of the

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technology that that we had uh developed and

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came up with the shooter's choice the start of

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the shooter's choice product line however back

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when i started i've had lots of international

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experience in around the world. And I have various

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sources that I've used in the past. We identified

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a resource in Asia that we said, you know what,

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we need to have a two -tier product offering,

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no different than what GE did back in the 80s

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and 90s with a good, better, best type approach.

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We have a better and best. Otis will always be

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the number one product line. It will always be

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the top tier product line. And what we see Shooter's

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Choice as being the best value brand. Taking

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some of the products with our design specs that

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we've identified, making sure that our Asian

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supplier manufactures that quality. We have a

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quality level of expectation along with other

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things that we do here. that we package all that

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product together and it goes out the door for

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those customers that want the best value brand.

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And I think probably the last thing I would say

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that also differentiates the Shooter's Choice

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brands from all the other brands that you get

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from Amazon and so forth is that we have a local

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presence. A customer calls up our customer service

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and says, hey, I've got a problem with my Shooter's

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Choice product line. No problem. We'll take care

00:12:49.509 --> 00:12:53.009
of it. Can't do that when, you know, I mean,

00:12:53.029 --> 00:12:55.610
we all have experience with Amazon. And, you

00:12:55.610 --> 00:12:57.389
know, a lot of times the stuff that you turn

00:12:57.389 --> 00:13:01.049
back to Amazon goes back out the door to the

00:13:01.049 --> 00:13:03.450
next customer, right? I just received something

00:13:03.450 --> 00:13:05.190
that was like that. You could tell it was used.

00:13:05.289 --> 00:13:10.220
It was like, eh, it's kind of new, sort of. I

00:13:10.220 --> 00:13:14.179
go, every time, you know, I love Amazon for some

00:13:14.179 --> 00:13:16.419
of the stuff that I buy as well. But, you know,

00:13:16.440 --> 00:13:19.639
I go straight to the reviews and I look at the

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one stars. And you can guarantee that at the

00:13:23.259 --> 00:13:26.019
one star ratings that there's always a comment

00:13:26.019 --> 00:13:29.080
regarding something that has the appearance that

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it was once sold and returned. Right, right.

00:13:32.919 --> 00:13:36.500
So you don't view, I mean, I think in business,

00:13:36.539 --> 00:13:38.259
one of the... one of the best things to do is

00:13:38.259 --> 00:13:41.659
own your own competition, right? You maintain

00:13:41.659 --> 00:13:44.840
these two lines, and for reasons that are valid

00:13:44.840 --> 00:13:48.820
in how you articulated, do you view the two lines

00:13:48.820 --> 00:13:52.200
as being complementary to each other, competitively

00:13:52.200 --> 00:13:54.840
to each other, maybe to a degree both? Overlap

00:13:54.840 --> 00:13:57.379
a little bit. There's always a chance of an overlap,

00:13:57.539 --> 00:14:01.700
right? I mean, there are no products, even in

00:14:01.700 --> 00:14:04.519
the GE example, where there are strict lanes

00:14:04.519 --> 00:14:07.620
where you're going to have complete separation

00:14:07.620 --> 00:14:11.700
between two product lines. There's always a cannibalization

00:14:11.700 --> 00:14:16.419
zone. But what I would say is that it all depends

00:14:16.419 --> 00:14:22.019
on who the owner of the firearm is. If you own

00:14:22.019 --> 00:14:28.889
a... $15 ,000 Parazzi shotgun, you're okay with

00:14:28.889 --> 00:14:31.750
buying a kit that might be a little more expensive

00:14:31.750 --> 00:14:34.889
than the other one, right? In a Walmart case.

00:14:36.450 --> 00:14:40.950
Exactly. So someone that has a Parazzi shotgun

00:14:40.950 --> 00:14:45.429
is not interested in buying the least expensive.

00:14:46.299 --> 00:14:48.539
shotgun cleaning kit. They're going to make the

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investment, even if it's a little more money,

00:14:50.600 --> 00:14:54.379
to clean their expensive shotgun versus someone

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that's new in the space. You know, someone that's

00:14:56.679 --> 00:15:00.580
18 or 21 years old has already shelled out quite

00:15:00.580 --> 00:15:05.120
a bit of money for a firearm, now has to buy

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ammunition, buys a holster, buys other ancillary

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equipment. And the last thing that they're thinking

00:15:10.659 --> 00:15:14.509
of is a cleaning kit. So they might be They may

00:15:14.509 --> 00:15:17.330
be considering something that is lower cost and

00:15:17.330 --> 00:15:20.889
now shopping based on dollars as opposed to the

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reputation that we have. So another example might

00:15:25.830 --> 00:15:28.409
be, you know, the hunter that, you know, has

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a rifle. maybe he's been hunting for 20 years

00:15:31.240 --> 00:15:33.379
but the only time that rifle gets cleaned is

00:15:33.379 --> 00:15:36.360
either right before or right after hunting season

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and maybe they fired a shot maybe not they may

00:15:39.980 --> 00:15:42.059
be saying well why am i spending more money for

00:15:42.059 --> 00:15:45.000
another one why do i why do i just get the cheapest

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thing that that that i can find so it is dependent

00:15:48.600 --> 00:15:51.919
on you know the consumer quite a bit but that's

00:15:51.919 --> 00:15:55.629
quite frankly why we We really pursued a two

00:15:55.629 --> 00:15:58.070
-tier product offering to try to cover the entire

00:15:58.070 --> 00:16:01.629
landscape and have something for everybody. So

00:16:01.629 --> 00:16:04.610
what do you describe your typical customer as?

00:16:04.789 --> 00:16:07.190
I mean, it sounds to me like you're saying you

00:16:07.190 --> 00:16:09.090
have them all. You've got the LE, you've got

00:16:09.090 --> 00:16:11.090
the military, you've got the casual shooter,

00:16:11.190 --> 00:16:13.730
all the points in between the serious hunters,

00:16:13.809 --> 00:16:17.490
the collectors. Is there, you know, the mass

00:16:17.490 --> 00:16:19.590
of the business must be kind of focused in one

00:16:19.590 --> 00:16:22.179
area, right? Where you probably have... let's

00:16:22.179 --> 00:16:24.799
say, more tactical guys and they're the ones

00:16:24.799 --> 00:16:26.639
who are really buying your products? And maybe

00:16:26.639 --> 00:16:29.679
that's predicated on your military presence.

00:16:30.179 --> 00:16:33.919
Well, you know, anyone that's been deployed and

00:16:33.919 --> 00:16:36.820
has gone downrange, they eventually come back

00:16:36.820 --> 00:16:39.000
home. They know our product. They've used our

00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:41.840
product and they like the reputation. So whether

00:16:41.840 --> 00:16:46.019
they're shooting an AR -15, a shotgun, a pistol.

00:16:46.700 --> 00:16:49.519
bolt action lever action they know our name they

00:16:49.519 --> 00:16:51.679
know our reputation they'll probably buy the

00:16:51.679 --> 00:16:55.179
same there are others that don't have that past

00:16:55.179 --> 00:16:59.360
experience and they they're going to be you know

00:16:59.360 --> 00:17:03.379
available for either buying the shooter's choice

00:17:03.379 --> 00:17:06.400
or the otis product line and they're going to

00:17:06.400 --> 00:17:10.259
have to make the value um value decision on what

00:17:10.259 --> 00:17:13.779
what's most important to them what are the myths

00:17:13.779 --> 00:17:17.619
that are associated with gun cleaning. Yeah,

00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:19.180
because there's probably a lot of them out there,

00:17:19.240 --> 00:17:21.500
and you've probably heard all of them. Well,

00:17:21.640 --> 00:17:23.700
and then let me interject my one here. I mean,

00:17:23.779 --> 00:17:26.740
you know, I've been shooting guns for, Craig

00:17:26.740 --> 00:17:28.420
and I have been shooting guns for, I don't know,

00:17:28.440 --> 00:17:31.859
40 years or so, who knows, a long time. One of

00:17:31.859 --> 00:17:35.759
the things that I never have used very much is

00:17:35.759 --> 00:17:39.339
a JAG. I don't know why. I mean, I have them

00:17:39.339 --> 00:17:41.799
in my cleaning kit, but it always ends up being

00:17:41.799 --> 00:17:45.200
that between the brush and going up and down

00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:49.819
with some clean solvent and some patches, I'm

00:17:49.819 --> 00:17:52.660
good. I don't know if you want to talk about

00:17:52.660 --> 00:17:54.779
that because I have them in my kit, but I don't

00:17:54.779 --> 00:17:57.680
ever pull them out or use them. Well, it's funny

00:17:57.680 --> 00:18:02.200
you say that. Yeah, let's address that first,

00:18:02.359 --> 00:18:06.130
and then I'll give you another one. So one of

00:18:06.130 --> 00:18:09.170
the things with Jags, and I used to shoot, I

00:18:09.170 --> 00:18:13.549
still have, I've got a Model 70 Winchester rifle

00:18:13.549 --> 00:18:17.089
with the varmint barrel, and that's a TAC driver.

00:18:17.309 --> 00:18:21.930
And I have, back when I bought that 30 years

00:18:21.930 --> 00:18:24.390
ago, and it was when Winchester was still around,

00:18:24.650 --> 00:18:31.569
I remember going online and investigating what...

00:18:32.250 --> 00:18:34.990
precision shooters at that time were doing for

00:18:34.990 --> 00:18:39.150
cleaning methods and so forth and break -in activities

00:18:39.150 --> 00:18:44.509
and so forth. And I followed their cleaning method

00:18:44.509 --> 00:18:51.730
to a T. And I've had great results and I wouldn't

00:18:51.730 --> 00:18:54.329
change a thing even today. Now, that was a point

00:18:54.329 --> 00:18:57.230
of Jack back in the day and one of our competitors

00:18:57.230 --> 00:19:03.269
that had the product at that time. And the other

00:19:03.269 --> 00:19:08.289
thing I would say is that the slotted jag that

00:19:08.289 --> 00:19:13.509
you normally see today, the way it's used typically

00:19:13.509 --> 00:19:17.609
is someone will throw a patch through the slot

00:19:17.609 --> 00:19:22.890
and send it down the barrel. Well, if you look

00:19:22.890 --> 00:19:26.329
at our Otis cleaning patches with the three slots,

00:19:26.490 --> 00:19:29.970
and we have videos that show... how to properly,

00:19:30.130 --> 00:19:33.769
how to properly, that's the point of JAG on the

00:19:33.769 --> 00:19:36.630
Shooter's Choice Kit. There should be a slot.

00:19:36.730 --> 00:19:41.309
Is there a slotted one in that kit? Okay, so

00:19:41.309 --> 00:19:45.710
the beauty of the slotted tip with our proprietary

00:19:45.710 --> 00:19:53.089
patch is that the way you use the slots, it creates

00:19:53.089 --> 00:19:57.789
almost an umbrella where you are pulling that

00:19:57.789 --> 00:20:01.339
umbrella down the barrel as opposed and being

00:20:01.339 --> 00:20:05.759
able to clean circumferentially 360 degrees versus

00:20:05.759 --> 00:20:10.119
the the way others are are forced to just simply

00:20:10.119 --> 00:20:12.039
throw the patch through the slot you're only

00:20:12.039 --> 00:20:15.019
cleaning a portion of that circumference not

00:20:15.019 --> 00:20:18.319
the entire circumference so there is a difference

00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:24.220
in and how we recommend uh cleaning with a slotted

00:20:24.220 --> 00:20:29.269
slotted uh jag uh versus our competition and

00:20:29.269 --> 00:20:32.130
we think we have a better mousetrap and for those

00:20:32.130 --> 00:20:34.650
in the audience who are thinking i didn't see

00:20:34.650 --> 00:20:39.730
a jag because it's an audio only show i will

00:20:39.730 --> 00:20:42.170
be post i will be posting pictures of this so

00:20:42.170 --> 00:20:47.210
no worries there go ahead ken yeah no no that

00:20:47.210 --> 00:20:49.210
that's an excellent point and and you talk about

00:20:49.210 --> 00:20:50.849
you know learning the different cleaning methods

00:20:50.849 --> 00:20:54.180
i mean when i started you know i Typically speaking,

00:20:54.400 --> 00:20:58.440
on my bolt actions, I went down muzzled all the

00:20:58.440 --> 00:21:00.440
way down to the breech. And then it's like, no,

00:21:00.559 --> 00:21:04.339
no, no, no. Then you meet people at the range

00:21:04.339 --> 00:21:05.819
and you're like, oh, no, no, no, no, no. You

00:21:05.819 --> 00:21:07.779
never go from the muzzle end down to the breech.

00:21:07.859 --> 00:21:10.279
No, no, no, no, no. You only go in the direction

00:21:10.279 --> 00:21:13.500
of the projectile. So you always go down from

00:21:13.500 --> 00:21:15.279
the breech. You always follow it out that way.

00:21:15.599 --> 00:21:17.359
So, of course, I've been doing that ever since.

00:21:17.420 --> 00:21:18.839
But I didn't know that when I first started.

00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:20.720
Well, how much does it matter? I mean, you tell

00:21:20.720 --> 00:21:25.619
us, Bill. If you're taking a swaging, basically

00:21:25.619 --> 00:21:29.559
a piece of metal through a barrel with a lot

00:21:29.559 --> 00:21:32.039
of violence, and then you're comparing that to

00:21:32.039 --> 00:21:35.319
a brush or a patch going through, you'd think

00:21:35.319 --> 00:21:37.519
that the brush or patch couldn't do anything

00:21:37.519 --> 00:21:40.059
to that barrel that the bullet didn't already

00:21:40.059 --> 00:21:46.500
do. So does direction really matter? Yeah. So

00:21:46.500 --> 00:21:49.420
from a cleaning perspective, I'd like to think,

00:21:49.579 --> 00:21:53.500
I mean, Even before I started with Otis, I was

00:21:53.500 --> 00:21:56.200
always a breech -to -muzzle cleaning guy anyhow

00:21:56.200 --> 00:21:59.259
because you always want to protect the crown.

00:21:59.460 --> 00:22:03.700
You don't want any risk of scratching the crown.

00:22:04.319 --> 00:22:08.940
And I show a demonstration during the classes

00:22:08.940 --> 00:22:12.039
that I do about what happens when the bullet

00:22:12.039 --> 00:22:15.740
exit starts to exit the muzzle end of the rifle.

00:22:16.059 --> 00:22:19.880
It's relying on a symmetrical expulsion of gas.

00:22:20.599 --> 00:22:25.299
coming out of that barrel that is now exiting

00:22:25.299 --> 00:22:29.559
the barrel and the crown end of the barrel. The

00:22:29.559 --> 00:22:32.319
problem is if you have any deformity going on

00:22:32.319 --> 00:22:36.519
at the crown, you may be influencing the flight

00:22:36.519 --> 00:22:39.059
of that bullet as a consequence. And now that's

00:22:39.059 --> 00:22:44.539
not an asymmetrical expulsion of gas. So if someone

00:22:44.539 --> 00:22:48.039
has ever buried their muzzle into the dirt, I

00:22:48.039 --> 00:22:50.359
highly recommend that, first of all, make sure

00:22:50.359 --> 00:22:53.240
it's unloaded. But take some magnification and

00:22:53.240 --> 00:22:55.240
look at the end of the barrel. If you see a little

00:22:55.240 --> 00:22:57.799
nick, I guarantee you that bullet's going to

00:22:57.799 --> 00:23:00.420
be tumbling somewhere downrange if you're shooting

00:23:00.420 --> 00:23:03.259
at something that 100 or a couple hundred yards

00:23:03.259 --> 00:23:06.519
away. That's now a trip to the gunsmith to relap

00:23:06.519 --> 00:23:10.180
that area, right? Yeah, I would probably sell

00:23:10.180 --> 00:23:12.599
the gun. The cost of doing that, to try to find

00:23:12.599 --> 00:23:15.509
somebody doing it. I'd probably sell a gun to

00:23:15.509 --> 00:23:17.809
a local gun shop and buy something else before

00:23:17.809 --> 00:23:20.750
I do that. I mean, a lot of times I've hunted

00:23:20.750 --> 00:23:22.750
in Alaska. I've hunted elsewhere. I'll throw

00:23:22.750 --> 00:23:26.170
a balloon over the end of the barrel to just

00:23:26.170 --> 00:23:29.210
protect that crowd. I mean, I've seen guides

00:23:29.210 --> 00:23:31.150
in Alaska that will take a piece of electrical

00:23:31.150 --> 00:23:33.769
tape and throw it over the end of their barrel

00:23:33.769 --> 00:23:35.849
just to make sure nothing goes in that end of

00:23:35.849 --> 00:23:37.549
the barrel. This is for probably your guys who

00:23:37.549 --> 00:23:43.170
are the one or sub -MOA guys. Who is not your

00:23:43.170 --> 00:23:47.970
host, by the way. And the fact that we know this

00:23:47.970 --> 00:23:50.910
is because of these super ultra high -speed cameras.

00:23:51.549 --> 00:23:54.230
We've all seen the YouTube videos of a million

00:23:54.230 --> 00:23:56.430
frames per second watching a bullet come out

00:23:56.430 --> 00:23:59.069
of the muzzle or watching a bullet impact a piece

00:23:59.069 --> 00:24:01.569
of steel and how it actually splatters. I mean,

00:24:01.589 --> 00:24:04.559
you never got to see that. years ago. I mean,

00:24:04.599 --> 00:24:06.119
it's the only reason we get to see that now is

00:24:06.119 --> 00:24:08.059
because of these super high -speed cameras. But

00:24:08.059 --> 00:24:09.759
we learned a lot. We learned a lot from that.

00:24:10.019 --> 00:24:12.619
Well, I look at the difference between a custom

00:24:12.619 --> 00:24:16.859
barrel and a standard off -the -shelf barrel.

00:24:17.019 --> 00:24:21.299
If you look at magnification, custom barrel is

00:24:21.299 --> 00:24:24.740
machined so perfectly. That's why you're paying

00:24:24.740 --> 00:24:26.759
a lot of money for a custom barrel, because of

00:24:26.759 --> 00:24:28.799
the amount of attention that's placed on all

00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:32.549
machining surfaces. Yeah. I'm fortunate to have

00:24:32.549 --> 00:24:38.289
one custom barrel, which is about an inch and

00:24:38.289 --> 00:24:40.549
a quarter in diameter for the full length. I

00:24:40.549 --> 00:24:44.730
mean, it's a chunk of steel in 22 -250, which

00:24:44.730 --> 00:24:47.349
is a screamer. I mean, it's real tough. Oh, yeah,

00:24:47.410 --> 00:24:49.890
that's a 4 ,000 feet per second round. Yes, it

00:24:49.890 --> 00:24:53.589
is. Yeah, it moves. Perfect for small little

00:24:53.589 --> 00:24:55.470
creatures out in the middle of the prairie someplace.

00:24:55.490 --> 00:24:58.029
Okay, so we wandered away from the topic of what

00:24:58.029 --> 00:25:00.390
the myths are out there that need to be dispelled.

00:25:00.490 --> 00:25:02.009
but I want to combine that with the question

00:25:02.009 --> 00:25:04.049
of what kind of mistakes people typically make

00:25:04.049 --> 00:25:05.950
other than the direction of the brush or the

00:25:05.950 --> 00:25:09.670
patch. I think that, you know, and I believe

00:25:09.670 --> 00:25:12.710
that you guys also, and listeners, if you haven't

00:25:12.710 --> 00:25:17.509
looked at the Otis and, I said and, not or, Shooter's

00:25:17.509 --> 00:25:20.009
Choice YouTube channels, because they maintain

00:25:20.009 --> 00:25:23.970
both channels, there's a ton of good information

00:25:23.970 --> 00:25:25.789
there. And what's unique about those channels

00:25:25.789 --> 00:25:30.039
is that they actually break down. How to break

00:25:30.039 --> 00:25:33.099
down. I actually walked into that without knowing

00:25:33.099 --> 00:25:36.819
I was going to do that. How to break down individual

00:25:36.819 --> 00:25:39.960
types of weapons and clean them correctly, which

00:25:39.960 --> 00:25:41.880
is a service that I don't think anybody else

00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:44.579
has posted on YouTube with any consistency. But

00:25:44.579 --> 00:25:46.400
going back to the question, kind of the common

00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:50.059
mistakes and maybe along the myths that are out

00:25:50.059 --> 00:25:54.339
there that relate to proper gun care as opposed

00:25:54.339 --> 00:25:57.809
to improper. One thing I've noted, when I first

00:25:57.809 --> 00:25:59.990
started going to the gun shows and stuff, Craig

00:25:59.990 --> 00:26:02.390
and I were doing this 30, 40 years ago, I used

00:26:02.390 --> 00:26:04.450
to see stainless steel brushes. Maybe they still

00:26:04.450 --> 00:26:07.170
have them, but they were steel brushes in all

00:26:07.170 --> 00:26:10.410
the various calibers. And as a new guy, you didn't

00:26:10.410 --> 00:26:12.470
necessarily know, oh, what a great way. It's

00:26:12.470 --> 00:26:15.750
harder than brass or whatever, bronze or whatever.

00:26:16.130 --> 00:26:18.829
And yeah, it's a great way to clean your gun.

00:26:19.009 --> 00:26:22.869
In reality, steel on steel is not good. So I

00:26:22.869 --> 00:26:25.559
tend not to see those anymore. They're probably

00:26:25.559 --> 00:26:28.400
still out there. But I think they do more damage

00:26:28.400 --> 00:26:31.480
than they probably help. But anyway. Yeah, no,

00:26:31.579 --> 00:26:35.859
good point, Ken. Actually, if I could digress

00:26:35.859 --> 00:26:38.900
for a moment, I am not an advocate of steel case

00:26:38.900 --> 00:26:42.259
ammo. I tell all my folks that you can buy cheap

00:26:42.259 --> 00:26:45.039
stuff. Typically comes from Russia. Might be

00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:47.680
easier to pick up with a magnet in the grass.

00:26:47.900 --> 00:26:52.380
But I'd rather have some shell casing that degrades.

00:26:53.000 --> 00:26:55.720
instead of my gun degrading with uh steel on

00:26:55.720 --> 00:26:59.480
steel on steel so i'm with you on that and there's

00:26:59.480 --> 00:27:02.019
uh i've seen some what's called like a tornado

00:27:02.019 --> 00:27:06.819
brush that i've seen a competitor i have um i've

00:27:06.819 --> 00:27:09.019
i've looked at that i've tried it on one of my

00:27:09.019 --> 00:27:12.660
guns uh i'm not i'm not an advocate of it but

00:27:12.660 --> 00:27:16.640
um i think that i think that that ideally you

00:27:16.640 --> 00:27:20.019
want something that is softer than your barrel

00:27:20.019 --> 00:27:25.190
or your um cylinder, if we're talking about revolvers,

00:27:25.210 --> 00:27:27.970
although let me talk about revolvers here in

00:27:27.970 --> 00:27:31.170
a moment. I think absolutely makes better sense

00:27:31.170 --> 00:27:37.450
to have something softer than the barrel or chamber

00:27:37.450 --> 00:27:40.529
material. Now, when it comes to revolvers, anyone

00:27:40.529 --> 00:27:45.190
that has a .357 revolver, Nine times out of ten,

00:27:45.309 --> 00:27:48.390
people are shooting .38s instead of .357s out

00:27:48.390 --> 00:27:51.670
of it. So what happens if they keep shooting

00:27:51.670 --> 00:27:58.809
.38s, that crud that you have before it exits

00:27:58.809 --> 00:28:02.730
out of the cylinder is extremely tough to clean

00:28:02.730 --> 00:28:07.069
with just a plain bronze brush and so forth.

00:28:07.230 --> 00:28:10.230
So that's where I recommend using like a bore

00:28:10.230 --> 00:28:13.269
cleaner. really get at it, but you want to make

00:28:13.269 --> 00:28:16.250
sure that if you ever go back to a .357 round,

00:28:16.509 --> 00:28:19.730
if you don't clean it, it won't seat that .357

00:28:19.730 --> 00:28:21.829
round if you've been shooting .38s through it

00:28:21.829 --> 00:28:24.890
all this time. Yeah, I've personally experienced

00:28:24.890 --> 00:28:29.309
that on an SP -101 Ruger that I have. Same thing,

00:28:29.390 --> 00:28:31.390
you just fire .38s, .38s all day long, and then

00:28:31.390 --> 00:28:32.970
you're like, all right, we should try a couple

00:28:32.970 --> 00:28:35.130
.357s just to, you know, kind of, and it's like,

00:28:35.210 --> 00:28:36.890
I can't get it in the cylinder anymore. I've

00:28:36.890 --> 00:28:39.109
never had that happen, but then again, I also,

00:28:39.210 --> 00:28:41.960
now, Okay, this is part of the myth question,

00:28:42.119 --> 00:28:45.500
right? I clean my guns after every time I use

00:28:45.500 --> 00:28:47.500
them, and I know that one of the higher failure

00:28:47.500 --> 00:28:49.420
rates is actually cleaning guns because they're

00:28:49.420 --> 00:28:52.359
put back together incorrectly. So as an engineer,

00:28:52.460 --> 00:28:55.579
I understand that. But what would you say, this

00:28:55.579 --> 00:28:57.319
is a little bit like how often you change the

00:28:57.319 --> 00:28:58.980
oil in your car. I mean, a lot of people are

00:28:58.980 --> 00:29:02.200
in the 3 ,000 -mile category, but modern oils,

00:29:02.400 --> 00:29:05.059
better filters, that's been pushed out further

00:29:05.059 --> 00:29:07.650
now. You know, where's the myth? Where's the

00:29:07.650 --> 00:29:10.250
truth? And, you know, how often do we clean them?

00:29:10.309 --> 00:29:13.250
And would you consider actually over -cleaning

00:29:13.250 --> 00:29:15.289
them to be a mistake? I mean, even though we're

00:29:15.289 --> 00:29:17.529
using more of your product, so you're liking

00:29:17.529 --> 00:29:20.990
it from a sales perspective. But what's the best

00:29:20.990 --> 00:29:25.430
practice? It's a good question. It's funny. It's

00:29:25.430 --> 00:29:27.769
one of the questions that I I'm forced to have

00:29:27.769 --> 00:29:31.670
to give my students a 50 50 question test to

00:29:31.670 --> 00:29:33.990
make sure they've retained some of the information

00:29:33.990 --> 00:29:38.029
that I've disseminated during our CCW classes.

00:29:38.190 --> 00:29:41.910
But I tell them, I said, hey, imagine my going

00:29:41.910 --> 00:29:45.710
out this afternoon and shooting 400 rounds and

00:29:45.710 --> 00:29:48.990
you go out the next eight weeks and shoot 50

00:29:48.990 --> 00:29:52.630
rounds. Each time, when should you clean and

00:29:52.630 --> 00:29:56.109
when should I clean? And 99 out of 100 times

00:29:56.109 --> 00:29:58.710
they say, well, every time we go out to shoot

00:29:58.710 --> 00:30:03.190
our guns, I say, well, that is correct. But the

00:30:03.190 --> 00:30:06.930
reality is what I also tell people, if it's your

00:30:06.930 --> 00:30:11.289
EDC, you will clean and lubricate it each and

00:30:11.289 --> 00:30:14.369
every time, even if you shoot one round. because

00:30:14.369 --> 00:30:18.289
that is a firearm that is there to perform when

00:30:18.289 --> 00:30:20.809
you need it to, and there should be no doubt

00:30:20.809 --> 00:30:24.210
in your mind whether that gun is going to operate

00:30:24.210 --> 00:30:27.630
or not if you were to need it. Now, when it comes

00:30:27.630 --> 00:30:30.630
to other guns, I mean, I've got lots of guns,

00:30:30.710 --> 00:30:34.710
and there are guns that... Maybe I clean once

00:30:34.710 --> 00:30:37.430
every three or four times, you know, might have

00:30:37.430 --> 00:30:39.849
five, 600 rounds. I've got some friends of mine.

00:30:39.869 --> 00:30:42.710
They say, well, no, just clean it. Whenever it

00:30:42.710 --> 00:30:44.930
malfunctions, then you know what the limit is,

00:30:45.009 --> 00:30:47.490
right? Well, I'm not going to be on a stage.

00:30:48.069 --> 00:30:51.539
I don't want to be on a stage at a match. and

00:30:51.539 --> 00:30:54.039
the thing starts stove piping on me because i

00:30:54.039 --> 00:30:56.859
haven't i haven't cleaned it right so in fact

00:30:56.859 --> 00:30:59.559
what i do is with our boar snake between stages

00:30:59.559 --> 00:31:02.519
i'll run it through i'll run it through the uh

00:31:02.519 --> 00:31:05.779
through the barrel uh or along the feed ramp

00:31:05.779 --> 00:31:08.059
up through the barrel just to clean and you're

00:31:08.059 --> 00:31:10.339
referring to your uh you guys referred to it

00:31:10.339 --> 00:31:14.769
as a ripcord product right Ripcord. Ripcord,

00:31:14.930 --> 00:31:17.650
yes. Not to be confused with a different name,

00:31:17.730 --> 00:31:21.930
but the Ripcord has really been an awesome product.

00:31:22.089 --> 00:31:24.970
It's actually internally different than other

00:31:24.970 --> 00:31:27.829
snakes, just to use a generic term that I've

00:31:27.829 --> 00:31:30.890
seen, because a lot of those are just essentially

00:31:30.890 --> 00:31:34.430
a poly rope that maybe has brushes impregnated

00:31:34.430 --> 00:31:38.410
into it, but this has, it appears to be a spiral

00:31:38.410 --> 00:31:44.150
material underneath a a cover and i wondered

00:31:44.150 --> 00:31:47.890
it it's it's quite stiff compared to other and

00:31:47.890 --> 00:31:50.910
by that i mean what if you try to squeeze it

00:31:50.910 --> 00:31:53.730
not i don't mean you can't roll it up but i mean

00:31:53.730 --> 00:31:56.470
if you try to squeeze it it's pretty stiff which

00:31:56.470 --> 00:31:58.990
i think gives better force on the barrel but

00:31:58.990 --> 00:32:01.509
will it work against something like let's say

00:32:01.509 --> 00:32:05.170
the micro groove lands and grooves in marlins

00:32:05.170 --> 00:32:07.049
i mean will it even work on something like that

00:32:07.549 --> 00:32:10.349
So let me kind of give you a little background

00:32:10.349 --> 00:32:14.250
on what the Ripcord is all about. So it's a patented

00:32:14.250 --> 00:32:16.769
product for us, developed a number of years ago.

00:32:16.890 --> 00:32:20.269
We start off with the same aircraft cable that

00:32:20.269 --> 00:32:22.650
we use in our other cable cleaning equipment.

00:32:22.910 --> 00:32:26.769
And we will injection mold a portion of that

00:32:26.769 --> 00:32:29.990
with that texture you're feeling when you rub

00:32:29.990 --> 00:32:33.349
your fingers along it. So number one, not only

00:32:33.349 --> 00:32:37.059
is it textured, but it's... six to seven inches

00:32:37.059 --> 00:32:40.039
long, depending on caliber and so forth, six

00:32:40.039 --> 00:32:42.779
to seven inches long. And then we weave Nomex,

00:32:42.900 --> 00:32:45.799
which has a melting temp of 700 degrees Fahrenheit,

00:32:46.039 --> 00:32:49.880
over it. So you can have a smoking hot gun, like

00:32:49.880 --> 00:32:53.500
an AR -15 that you just shot, and maybe the barrel

00:32:53.500 --> 00:32:57.180
or the gas tube is red hot. Well, you throw that

00:32:57.180 --> 00:32:58.640
through there, it's not going to melt in the

00:32:58.640 --> 00:33:01.000
barrel. You take one of our competitor's products

00:33:01.000 --> 00:33:04.990
that you described and... It can melt in the

00:33:04.990 --> 00:33:10.109
barrel because it's not made of Nomex. And there's

00:33:10.109 --> 00:33:12.170
quite a bit of resistance. I mean, you've got

00:33:12.170 --> 00:33:14.750
to either use the black pull handle that comes

00:33:14.750 --> 00:33:18.450
with it, or if you are cleaning a pistol, you

00:33:18.450 --> 00:33:22.569
could wrap... Personally, I just wrap it around

00:33:22.569 --> 00:33:26.130
my hands once or a couple times, and then I'll

00:33:26.130 --> 00:33:28.950
just yank it through because it's got a lot of...

00:33:29.400 --> 00:33:32.059
a lot of cleaning capability by pulling it through

00:33:32.059 --> 00:33:35.119
the barrel and for pistols for example the the

00:33:35.119 --> 00:33:37.319
cleaning portion is two to three times longer

00:33:37.319 --> 00:33:39.579
than the actual barrel so you're getting a lot

00:33:39.579 --> 00:33:43.059
of cleaning action and then finally if you want

00:33:43.059 --> 00:33:45.559
you can actually attach one of the bronze brushes

00:33:45.559 --> 00:33:48.799
on the end and pull it through two with it so

00:33:48.799 --> 00:33:52.220
yes and that's the that's wonderful that that

00:33:52.220 --> 00:33:55.039
is not available anywhere else that i'm aware

00:33:55.039 --> 00:33:57.920
of i really love the i have the uh the record

00:33:57.920 --> 00:34:00.299
in the the the 12 -gauge shotgun as well as the

00:34:00.299 --> 00:34:02.519
20 -gauge because I do a lot of shotgun stuff.

00:34:03.019 --> 00:34:05.119
And I absolutely love it. I love the fact that

00:34:05.119 --> 00:34:08.619
it's not just one, I don't know, we call it an

00:34:08.619 --> 00:34:10.639
expansion bubble or whatever that presses up

00:34:10.639 --> 00:34:13.199
against the inside. It's multiple. You get three

00:34:13.199 --> 00:34:14.880
of them, I think, in the 12 and the 20 -gauge.

00:34:14.980 --> 00:34:18.780
That is correct. And the fact that you can screw

00:34:18.780 --> 00:34:21.260
in on the end of it the brush or something, beautiful.

00:34:21.739 --> 00:34:24.360
I absolutely love it. Bill, again, the actual

00:34:24.360 --> 00:34:28.260
cleaning length of the ripcord is about how long?

00:34:28.570 --> 00:34:30.349
I mean, not the part that you drop through the

00:34:30.349 --> 00:34:33.610
barrel, but. Probably have about six or seven

00:34:33.610 --> 00:34:37.269
inches of cleaning surface because you'll notice

00:34:37.269 --> 00:34:41.420
the fat portion. It's more pronounced when you

00:34:41.420 --> 00:34:47.119
have the 9mm or the .45 caliber or the .30 caliber.

00:34:47.460 --> 00:34:51.480
We match the thickness to the diameter of the

00:34:51.480 --> 00:34:55.079
barrel that we use. And I think that part of

00:34:55.079 --> 00:34:57.719
the resistance that people have in cleaning their

00:34:57.719 --> 00:35:00.480
guns is the investment in time. I mean, you're

00:35:00.480 --> 00:35:02.460
not on the range shooting anymore. You're maybe

00:35:02.460 --> 00:35:06.190
watching TV or maybe just over your bench. you

00:35:06.190 --> 00:35:08.550
know, drudgery ensues as you have to clean the

00:35:08.550 --> 00:35:10.769
thing. And the important part to remember here

00:35:10.769 --> 00:35:14.349
that Bill is emphasizing is that the amount of

00:35:14.349 --> 00:35:17.550
contact time and distance that you have on the

00:35:17.550 --> 00:35:20.570
ripcord is equivalent. Like imagine you took

00:35:20.570 --> 00:35:23.949
patches and lined them up. to get seven inches

00:35:23.949 --> 00:35:26.889
of patches the way they fold that's an awful

00:35:26.889 --> 00:35:28.909
lot of passes where this does the same thing

00:35:28.909 --> 00:35:31.869
in one pass so it's faster and more efficient

00:35:31.869 --> 00:35:35.070
and and that's it's a little bit like what i

00:35:35.070 --> 00:35:36.889
said earlier when you think about what the life

00:35:36.889 --> 00:35:39.070
of a barrel is i don't know if you listen to

00:35:39.070 --> 00:35:42.369
that episode bill but there's a statistic out

00:35:42.369 --> 00:35:44.070
there of what's the life of a barrel and people

00:35:44.070 --> 00:35:46.090
think you know in terms of you know numbers of

00:35:46.090 --> 00:35:48.690
rounds or something it's like six seconds so

00:35:48.690 --> 00:35:51.010
where did that number come from it's the aggregated

00:35:51.010 --> 00:35:54.090
time of, like, if you lined all the bullets up,

00:35:54.190 --> 00:35:56.510
that the thing's ever going to shoot, how many

00:35:56.510 --> 00:35:59.489
seconds of bullets would be in that barrel? And

00:35:59.489 --> 00:36:02.190
this is analogous to that, where you're saving

00:36:02.190 --> 00:36:05.349
a ton of time by using a ripcord instead of patch

00:36:05.349 --> 00:36:07.989
after patch after patch. I mean, I imagine that

00:36:07.989 --> 00:36:09.449
you want to run a patch through just to make

00:36:09.449 --> 00:36:11.349
sure it comes out clean and like your job's done.

00:36:11.489 --> 00:36:13.909
True statement? Well, you know, it's funny when

00:36:13.909 --> 00:36:16.670
you're asking about myths. The myth that I grew

00:36:16.670 --> 00:36:20.150
up with, that we all grew up with is, and every

00:36:20.150 --> 00:36:23.550
instruction manual will tell you, keep pulling

00:36:23.550 --> 00:36:26.590
the patch through until it's clean. I've tried

00:36:26.590 --> 00:36:29.570
that a number of times. I'll throw 12, 15 patches

00:36:29.570 --> 00:36:33.469
through it and it's still got black on it. It's

00:36:33.469 --> 00:36:35.530
good for business, right? It's good for a bit.

00:36:35.570 --> 00:36:38.610
I want you to keep buying our patches. But the

00:36:38.610 --> 00:36:40.789
reality is it's never going to get clean. It's

00:36:40.789 --> 00:36:44.139
never going to be. black free did you know that

00:36:44.139 --> 00:36:46.559
that's a technique that's used time and time

00:36:46.559 --> 00:36:49.360
again in selling vacuum cleaners because there's

00:36:49.360 --> 00:36:51.559
always dirt in the carpet and no matter how many

00:36:51.559 --> 00:36:53.519
times you go over it with your vacuum cleaner

00:36:53.519 --> 00:36:56.039
when you get the kirby or whatever the really

00:36:56.039 --> 00:36:58.159
expensive one it's like look how much more dirt

00:36:58.159 --> 00:37:00.480
we got well you would have got that anyway so

00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:06.699
yeah all all true um are there any other mistakes

00:37:06.699 --> 00:37:09.969
that people should be avoiding Like maybe in

00:37:09.969 --> 00:37:11.969
terms of chemical choice or something like that.

00:37:12.150 --> 00:37:16.170
Well, yeah, I think one of the things that people

00:37:16.170 --> 00:37:18.849
need to be careful of is if they've got some

00:37:18.849 --> 00:37:22.590
type of finish that they're not sure of, maybe

00:37:22.590 --> 00:37:27.050
take a Q -tip and make sure that in a non -conspicuous

00:37:27.050 --> 00:37:33.090
place, you try that first. We had a situation

00:37:33.090 --> 00:37:37.190
where someone was using our bore cleaning material

00:37:37.190 --> 00:37:42.599
on a... graphic that was hand applied and the

00:37:42.599 --> 00:37:46.780
graphic ended up being removed so i i think that's

00:37:46.780 --> 00:37:49.420
that's an issue i think that people got to be

00:37:49.420 --> 00:37:52.619
careful regarding muscle loading versus people

00:37:52.619 --> 00:37:56.099
may or may not know you want to be using aqueous

00:37:56.099 --> 00:37:59.420
cleaning solutions now once you clean it and

00:37:59.420 --> 00:38:02.980
it's dry you could put an oil on it to prevent

00:38:02.980 --> 00:38:05.909
it from rusting But a lot of people aren't aware

00:38:05.909 --> 00:38:08.789
that in muzzle loading, to be able to clean black

00:38:08.789 --> 00:38:11.489
powder, you have to use water or some type of

00:38:11.489 --> 00:38:14.510
aqueous solution to actually do the cleaning.

00:38:14.630 --> 00:38:17.690
So those are probably two of the most, I would

00:38:17.690 --> 00:38:21.010
say, most important potential errors that people

00:38:21.010 --> 00:38:23.710
make with cleaning their firearms. And probably

00:38:23.710 --> 00:38:26.289
last but not least, making sure they assemble

00:38:26.289 --> 00:38:29.570
it back together again. One thing that I remember

00:38:29.570 --> 00:38:33.719
years ago, I... I hated cleaning my Mach 2 Ruger

00:38:33.719 --> 00:38:38.480
pistol. I just hated it. And, you know, there

00:38:38.480 --> 00:38:40.579
was more than once I had to go to YouTube to

00:38:40.579 --> 00:38:43.179
say, is there an easier way to clean this thing?

00:38:43.739 --> 00:38:46.960
And lo and behold, eventually they came out with

00:38:46.960 --> 00:38:50.539
the Mach 4. So I sold that Mach 2 and went to

00:38:50.539 --> 00:38:52.739
the Mach 4, and now I love cleaning that gun.

00:38:52.900 --> 00:38:55.260
It's so much easier. You probably assembled it

00:38:55.260 --> 00:38:57.139
and put the little lever thing back in and locked

00:38:57.139 --> 00:38:59.199
the gun up. You couldn't do it because, oh, my

00:38:59.199 --> 00:39:02.710
God, yeah. It was a knife. It's like one of those

00:39:02.710 --> 00:39:05.429
brain -teasing toys trying to, you know. Yeah,

00:39:05.429 --> 00:39:07.829
put it back together. Put it together again.

00:39:08.230 --> 00:39:11.070
Oh, yeah. You were talking about using an aqueous

00:39:11.070 --> 00:39:14.050
solution. Obviously, that means water. And, you

00:39:14.050 --> 00:39:16.210
know, water doesn't have toxicity, except that

00:39:16.210 --> 00:39:19.670
it also will cause rust, especially when mixed

00:39:19.670 --> 00:39:22.449
with something that's electrolytic. Are there

00:39:22.449 --> 00:39:25.250
challenges that you face in terms of increasing

00:39:25.250 --> 00:39:29.780
either awareness or regulation? relative to,

00:39:29.920 --> 00:39:32.920
let's say, the California Clean Air Act, for

00:39:32.920 --> 00:39:37.880
example, has VOC requirements that probably affect,

00:39:38.099 --> 00:39:41.440
and probably only in a negative way, the efficacy

00:39:41.440 --> 00:39:45.300
of your chemicals. Is that a problem that you

00:39:45.300 --> 00:39:48.539
face in increasing amounts in the United States?

00:39:48.579 --> 00:39:52.099
And maybe as a subtext to that, Do you sell other

00:39:52.099 --> 00:39:54.119
products in other countries where you don't face

00:39:54.119 --> 00:39:56.539
those problems and you can like sell the good

00:39:56.539 --> 00:39:59.340
stuff, quote unquote, other places, but you can't

00:39:59.340 --> 00:40:01.860
sell it in the U .S.? Yeah. So, no, those are

00:40:01.860 --> 00:40:04.360
good questions. I think that a couple of things

00:40:04.360 --> 00:40:07.019
that are worthy of pointing out that, number

00:40:07.019 --> 00:40:09.610
one, there is no difference. And the chemicals

00:40:09.610 --> 00:40:12.010
that we supply to California customers versus

00:40:12.010 --> 00:40:14.809
anyone else, the chemicals are the same. But

00:40:14.809 --> 00:40:18.670
there are strict requirements for labeling. So

00:40:18.670 --> 00:40:22.150
we do comply with California's requirements for

00:40:22.150 --> 00:40:26.150
labeling, labeling product, and so forth. And,

00:40:26.170 --> 00:40:30.429
of course, all chemicals have safety data sheets.

00:40:30.889 --> 00:40:33.670
They used to be material safety data sheets.

00:40:33.670 --> 00:40:36.510
They're now called SDSs. The only restriction

00:40:36.510 --> 00:40:40.730
is being able to airship. So you can't airship

00:40:40.730 --> 00:40:43.469
aerosol cans. Well, that's safety of the aircraft.

00:40:43.869 --> 00:40:47.809
I mean, that's why, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Value jet

00:40:47.809 --> 00:40:50.889
in Florida of crash comes to mind, yeah. We've

00:40:50.889 --> 00:40:53.230
always explored, you know, different chemicals

00:40:53.230 --> 00:40:56.530
and so forth. There's really no need to change

00:40:56.530 --> 00:40:59.050
because the chemicals that we have, we're extremely

00:40:59.050 --> 00:41:01.780
proud of and they work. They work efficiently,

00:41:01.980 --> 00:41:05.739
and unless there is some new solution we need

00:41:05.739 --> 00:41:09.420
to come up with that hasn't been addressed yet,

00:41:09.500 --> 00:41:13.980
we very much stand by our products that we have

00:41:13.980 --> 00:41:18.380
today. And then how did you manage to become

00:41:18.380 --> 00:41:21.820
so successful and the de facto choice in the

00:41:21.820 --> 00:41:24.039
military? I mean, I can go on military bases.

00:41:24.139 --> 00:41:27.610
I go to the exchanges. No matter what the service,

00:41:27.789 --> 00:41:31.210
I see in the gun section, if they have one, or

00:41:31.210 --> 00:41:33.809
the sporting goods section of the exchange, regardless

00:41:33.809 --> 00:41:37.090
of the branch of service, I see your stuff hanging

00:41:37.090 --> 00:41:39.909
there, like a lot of it. The key to our success,

00:41:40.289 --> 00:41:44.889
and not just our success, but any company that

00:41:44.889 --> 00:41:48.650
listens to their customers, voice of the customer,

00:41:48.889 --> 00:41:52.130
you need to understand what are their pain points?

00:41:52.409 --> 00:41:56.889
What do they want? What do they need? What solutions

00:41:56.889 --> 00:42:00.530
can we offer to make things better for them?

00:42:00.710 --> 00:42:04.610
And our guys have been out, including Jerry Williams,

00:42:04.929 --> 00:42:10.050
with the command, with the command sergeant major,

00:42:10.329 --> 00:42:14.369
with the private, with the sergeant, with all

00:42:14.369 --> 00:42:18.309
different levels of our troops that have been

00:42:18.309 --> 00:42:21.389
deployed and offer solutions. The same thing

00:42:21.389 --> 00:42:25.349
with commercial products. beta test groups that

00:42:25.349 --> 00:42:31.510
we've used. Many times I have to be very careful

00:42:31.510 --> 00:42:35.510
as a competitive shooter. I represent a small

00:42:35.510 --> 00:42:40.570
sliver of the total buying commercial market.

00:42:41.190 --> 00:42:44.510
And I've got to be careful that if I insist on

00:42:44.510 --> 00:42:47.769
something that has absolutely no value to the

00:42:47.769 --> 00:42:50.710
new shooter, why are we incurring extra costs

00:42:50.710 --> 00:42:54.829
that doesn't bring any additional value? So we

00:42:54.829 --> 00:42:57.329
do pay attention to the voice of our customer.

00:42:57.710 --> 00:43:00.769
And that is really the key success to any company

00:43:00.769 --> 00:43:02.610
is you've got to listen to your customer. You

00:43:02.610 --> 00:43:04.849
need to know your customer and you've got to

00:43:04.849 --> 00:43:07.150
listen to them. And things will change over time.

00:43:07.309 --> 00:43:09.510
I mean, look, even in the last four years that

00:43:09.510 --> 00:43:12.849
I've been the CEO here, know ar -15s with a rage

00:43:12.849 --> 00:43:17.369
then it was lever action rifles now bolt action

00:43:17.369 --> 00:43:21.230
right so you know what things change one of the

00:43:21.230 --> 00:43:24.670
things that clearly what i found in this industry

00:43:24.670 --> 00:43:27.190
and i you know when i first started here i said

00:43:27.190 --> 00:43:29.849
man i should have joined the firearms industry

00:43:29.849 --> 00:43:33.469
years ago but one thing i can say is that the

00:43:33.469 --> 00:43:36.849
firearms industry has the widest pendulum swings

00:43:36.849 --> 00:43:41.219
than any other industry that I've been in because

00:43:41.219 --> 00:43:45.360
it's so dependent on what administration is in,

00:43:45.500 --> 00:43:50.519
what the courts are doing and saying, and whether

00:43:50.519 --> 00:43:54.420
we're in a war or not. Or if you look at the

00:43:54.420 --> 00:43:57.000
latest Doge effort that occurred here this year,

00:43:57.119 --> 00:44:01.380
lots of things had a lot of the government expenses.

00:44:01.699 --> 00:44:05.400
People were very cautious to want to generate

00:44:05.400 --> 00:44:09.360
purchase orders for anything, and they wanted

00:44:09.360 --> 00:44:12.360
to stay under the radar and make sure that I

00:44:12.360 --> 00:44:14.380
don't want to be buying anything. I might get,

00:44:14.420 --> 00:44:17.320
lose my job. So, and some people did lose their

00:44:17.320 --> 00:44:20.119
jobs and people are in different chairs. Those

00:44:20.119 --> 00:44:22.260
same people that were in chairs before are no

00:44:22.260 --> 00:44:26.019
longer there. So yeah. Does your work with foreign

00:44:26.019 --> 00:44:28.639
militaries help level the playing field for you

00:44:28.639 --> 00:44:30.809
in that regard? They're all different sizes,

00:44:30.969 --> 00:44:32.929
right? You know, the Marine Corps is smaller

00:44:32.929 --> 00:44:37.329
than the entire Army. We also have a lot of the

00:44:37.329 --> 00:44:40.750
three -letter agencies that have their own needs.

00:44:41.570 --> 00:44:44.349
Again, smaller in numbers, but we service them

00:44:44.349 --> 00:44:49.349
all, whether it's FBI or DEA or ATF or any of

00:44:49.349 --> 00:44:53.710
the agencies that have agents, they have guns.

00:44:54.030 --> 00:44:58.530
So they need to be clean. They need to be serviced.

00:44:58.760 --> 00:45:01.619
So your testing protocols are really, I mean,

00:45:01.619 --> 00:45:04.059
I'm sure you have internal testing and you mentioned

00:45:04.059 --> 00:45:06.360
beta testing, but a lot of it really is based

00:45:06.360 --> 00:45:09.099
on customer feedback and getting in front of

00:45:09.099 --> 00:45:13.179
the perceived need. Absolutely. Absolutely. I

00:45:13.179 --> 00:45:17.380
was just thinking about basically partnering

00:45:17.380 --> 00:45:20.480
with some of the firearms manufacturers so that

00:45:20.480 --> 00:45:23.219
your product comes out of the box. literally

00:45:23.219 --> 00:45:24.900
out of the box with their brand new firearm,

00:45:25.139 --> 00:45:28.340
you know, perhaps some sort of reduced cleaning

00:45:28.340 --> 00:45:31.960
kit, you know, patches, brushes, jags, whatever.

00:45:33.400 --> 00:45:35.960
Are you doing any of that or plan to do any of

00:45:35.960 --> 00:45:38.260
that? We actually do a lot of that. So I won't

00:45:38.260 --> 00:45:41.179
mention any names, but we do a lot of that. All

00:45:41.179 --> 00:45:44.179
the names that you could probably spit off here,

00:45:44.239 --> 00:45:47.739
the next 10 names, we're probably doing something

00:45:47.739 --> 00:45:51.559
with eight or nine of them. One thing I can say

00:45:51.559 --> 00:45:56.000
is that the new squad weapon that SIG was awarded,

00:45:56.099 --> 00:45:59.739
we were part of the test protocol with our cleaning

00:45:59.739 --> 00:46:04.820
equipment. So they, along with the other competitors

00:46:04.820 --> 00:46:10.000
of theirs that were pitted against each other,

00:46:10.039 --> 00:46:12.940
we were the cleaning kit on all three manufacturers

00:46:12.940 --> 00:46:17.429
that presented firearms for testing. Our equipment,

00:46:17.550 --> 00:46:20.050
our cleaning equipment is part of every rifle

00:46:20.050 --> 00:46:22.969
that goes out the door. And that creates equity

00:46:22.969 --> 00:46:25.369
automatically with the users, and then they'll

00:46:25.369 --> 00:46:27.690
buy it for themselves. I mean, it's a fantastic

00:46:27.690 --> 00:46:31.170
business strategy, honestly, and I appreciate

00:46:31.170 --> 00:46:35.570
that. So time to dime out, not by name, your

00:46:35.570 --> 00:46:39.389
competitors. Not why do they suck, but why are

00:46:39.389 --> 00:46:42.389
you better? Just phrase it any way you want,

00:46:42.489 --> 00:46:45.719
but just... But please don't disparage by name

00:46:45.719 --> 00:46:50.460
somebody else. Well, I think, again, we don't

00:46:50.460 --> 00:46:53.019
like having to mention names. That's not who

00:46:53.019 --> 00:46:55.920
we are. We base our reputation on our product

00:46:55.920 --> 00:47:00.519
and let consumers make that judgment. But quite

00:47:00.519 --> 00:47:03.920
frankly, there's no other competitor for a product

00:47:03.920 --> 00:47:06.239
that is made in the United States of America.

00:47:06.400 --> 00:47:09.679
We're here in upstate New York. We make all our

00:47:09.679 --> 00:47:12.809
Otis equipment here, and we do not have... really

00:47:12.809 --> 00:47:15.750
any competition when it comes to USA made product.

00:47:15.889 --> 00:47:19.170
Now, there's a lot of stuff, a lot of stuff that

00:47:19.170 --> 00:47:23.090
comes from Asia. Even the old house brand that

00:47:23.090 --> 00:47:25.949
used to come in an orange box back when I was

00:47:25.949 --> 00:47:30.630
a kid, that has been made in Asia ever since.

00:47:31.250 --> 00:47:35.550
And, you know, we, quite frankly, I tell my sales

00:47:35.550 --> 00:47:37.849
folks, I said, anytime you go into somewhere,

00:47:38.429 --> 00:47:41.630
You tell the dealer or whoever it is that there's

00:47:41.630 --> 00:47:43.889
no need to buy that other stuff anymore. We have

00:47:43.889 --> 00:47:48.230
the whole package. We have the best value brand.

00:47:48.349 --> 00:47:51.570
We have the top tier. We've got rods. We've got

00:47:51.570 --> 00:47:55.829
cables. We've got everything. Why do you need

00:47:55.829 --> 00:47:58.590
anybody else's product? You get one source. You

00:47:58.590 --> 00:48:01.030
can get everything you need from us. And so that's

00:48:01.030 --> 00:48:03.710
one of the things that I... pride pride ourselves

00:48:03.710 --> 00:48:06.530
so that we pride ourselves on is to be able to

00:48:06.530 --> 00:48:09.730
be the one -stop shop for all gun cleaning needs

00:48:09.730 --> 00:48:14.349
bar none so is there i'm going to kind of combine

00:48:14.349 --> 00:48:18.050
two questions here like what what is your greatest

00:48:18.050 --> 00:48:20.690
innovation or the product you're most proud of

00:48:20.690 --> 00:48:24.630
and then i would follow that up with i mean is

00:48:24.630 --> 00:48:27.010
there anything really new in gun cleaning and

00:48:27.010 --> 00:48:30.139
and how do you convince Except when you run out

00:48:30.139 --> 00:48:32.400
of patches or you run out of chemicals, you know,

00:48:32.400 --> 00:48:35.920
or the brush gets too, you know, frayed or something

00:48:35.920 --> 00:48:38.460
like that. How do you convince someone to like

00:48:38.460 --> 00:48:40.099
go out and buy new stuff when they've already

00:48:40.099 --> 00:48:42.760
think they got it and they're good to go? Well,

00:48:42.880 --> 00:48:45.340
you know, that is something that it's always

00:48:45.340 --> 00:48:48.380
difficult. People, you know, people are creatures

00:48:48.380 --> 00:48:51.599
of habits. So someone that's been cleaning their

00:48:51.599 --> 00:48:54.699
gun for 40 years and for us to come out and say,

00:48:54.800 --> 00:48:57.860
hey, you should try this. You think we're going

00:48:57.860 --> 00:49:01.219
to. convince them to really want to do something.

00:49:01.300 --> 00:49:07.119
However, I will say that stay tuned for next

00:49:07.119 --> 00:49:10.960
year because we probably have one of the largest

00:49:10.960 --> 00:49:14.340
and most innovative products that we're going

00:49:14.340 --> 00:49:18.460
to be coming out with in 2026. Do we get to see

00:49:18.460 --> 00:49:21.400
this at SHOT Show? Yeah, will it be at SHOT?

00:49:21.539 --> 00:49:28.699
Maybe. Do you need a beta tester, Bill? Fair

00:49:28.699 --> 00:49:32.300
enough. But, you know, there's a lot of stuff

00:49:32.300 --> 00:49:35.159
gets regurgitated over the years. I mean, we,

00:49:35.280 --> 00:49:37.960
you know, some of the things that we've produced

00:49:37.960 --> 00:49:41.059
over the years, you know, whether it's our bone

00:49:41.059 --> 00:49:44.599
tool for cleaning the BCG of an AR -15 or the

00:49:44.599 --> 00:49:49.460
bolt of the firing pin. Really trying to come

00:49:49.460 --> 00:49:53.019
up with innovative ways to clean things. We have

00:49:53.019 --> 00:49:56.760
expanded into the black powder market. It was

00:49:56.760 --> 00:49:58.659
an adjacent market. That was something that we

00:49:58.659 --> 00:50:03.099
did this year. Same thing with airsoft guns.

00:50:03.539 --> 00:50:07.639
And we're very careful. We have silicone oil,

00:50:07.760 --> 00:50:12.340
not a hydrocarbon, because rubber O -rings expand.

00:50:13.099 --> 00:50:16.579
You don't want to be using regular oil on airsoft

00:50:16.579 --> 00:50:20.619
guns. Um, we have a suppressor cleaning kit,

00:50:20.719 --> 00:50:26.519
uh, that, that is a huge, um, uh, great interest

00:50:26.519 --> 00:50:29.760
in that. Uh, it's, it's, it's, um, yeah, it was

00:50:29.760 --> 00:50:32.119
a big hit. We released, we released that last

00:50:32.119 --> 00:50:34.559
year's shot show along with the muzzle loading

00:50:34.559 --> 00:50:37.760
kit and the airsoft kit. Um, those three products,

00:50:37.800 --> 00:50:40.219
again, listening to the customer, what, what

00:50:40.219 --> 00:50:43.500
have they been asking for? And here we go. Then

00:50:43.500 --> 00:50:47.820
on the suppressor kit, um, maybe, Just a very

00:50:47.820 --> 00:50:51.980
quick tutorial on, I mean, I know why, because

00:50:51.980 --> 00:50:53.860
it ain't going to work if it gets carbon in there

00:50:53.860 --> 00:50:55.820
and there's a crap ton of carbon that ends up

00:50:55.820 --> 00:50:58.500
in a suppressor really quickly. But yeah, you

00:50:58.500 --> 00:51:02.539
could add to that, but is it going to? We're

00:51:02.539 --> 00:51:04.420
talking about innovation, maybe the products

00:51:04.420 --> 00:51:06.880
you're most proud of. I imagine the ripcord has

00:51:06.880 --> 00:51:09.699
got to be one of them. Absolutely. It's so different

00:51:09.699 --> 00:51:14.940
than your competitors. But what's the... methodology

00:51:14.940 --> 00:51:18.800
by which you clean a suppressor and will it work

00:51:18.800 --> 00:51:22.880
in monolithic suppressors? So, you know, well,

00:51:23.039 --> 00:51:27.039
that's the beauty is those monolithics that 3D

00:51:27.039 --> 00:51:30.000
printed, right? There's no way of disassembling

00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:32.199
and having baffles that you can remove and clean

00:51:32.199 --> 00:51:36.019
separately, right? So that the 3D printed suppressors

00:51:36.019 --> 00:51:40.460
need some way of cleaning. So the question that

00:51:40.460 --> 00:51:47.159
I will ask you, is do you want to clean so that

00:51:47.159 --> 00:51:50.019
it's operational or do you want to clean until

00:51:50.019 --> 00:51:54.380
it's pristine? I would like to clean one that

00:51:54.380 --> 00:51:58.539
I could legally own in California, which I can't.

00:51:58.980 --> 00:52:02.599
Well, you and I, my friend, have the same problem

00:52:02.599 --> 00:52:05.619
because I can't own anything that's NFA regulated

00:52:05.619 --> 00:52:08.900
here in New York City. Okay, but in fairness

00:52:08.900 --> 00:52:12.349
to your question, That's right. Oh, if you said

00:52:12.349 --> 00:52:16.530
operational or pristine, I mean, they're matters

00:52:16.530 --> 00:52:20.610
of degree, and I would say that if I'm only cleaning

00:52:20.610 --> 00:52:23.329
to operational sustainability, then I'm going

00:52:23.329 --> 00:52:26.710
to have to clean more often because I'm not cleaning

00:52:26.710 --> 00:52:32.869
it thoroughly. So I guess I'd have to defer the

00:52:32.869 --> 00:52:36.039
question in a way that... Let's say, I'll just

00:52:36.039 --> 00:52:39.380
put a number on it. If I can operationally get

00:52:39.380 --> 00:52:42.239
it back up to where it needs to be to be fine

00:52:42.239 --> 00:52:46.340
in 10 minutes, but pristine is an hour, and it's

00:52:46.340 --> 00:52:49.559
all labor time, I'm going to take the 10 minutes.

00:52:50.079 --> 00:52:54.280
Yeah, so let me kind of, that was kind of a trick

00:52:54.280 --> 00:52:57.440
question because a couple of things. One is,

00:52:57.579 --> 00:53:02.059
if you were to subject a suppressor to a chemical

00:53:02.059 --> 00:53:06.309
cleaning agent that removed, all foreign materials,

00:53:06.690 --> 00:53:11.349
you are probably going to also eliminate the

00:53:11.349 --> 00:53:18.989
outside cosmetic color. So the challenge is how

00:53:18.989 --> 00:53:23.190
aggressive can you make the cleaning agent without

00:53:23.190 --> 00:53:27.190
eliminating or removing the outside cosmetic

00:53:27.190 --> 00:53:30.090
covering? And it all depends on the material

00:53:30.090 --> 00:53:34.480
of construction, right? A titanium 3D printed

00:53:34.480 --> 00:53:38.699
suppressor is one thing on the inside, but maybe

00:53:38.699 --> 00:53:42.420
aluminum on the outside with some type of black

00:53:42.420 --> 00:53:46.619
anodized or what have you, right? So every suppressor

00:53:46.619 --> 00:53:50.599
has a different material of construction. Let

00:53:50.599 --> 00:53:54.719
me give you an example. I love my Jerry Miklik

00:53:54.719 --> 00:53:57.880
929 Smith & Wesson revolver. It's an eight shot,

00:53:57.980 --> 00:54:02.000
nine millimeter revolver. And I had a comp. that

00:54:02.000 --> 00:54:05.739
um i have now removed it but i had a comp that

00:54:05.739 --> 00:54:10.019
i shot maybe a thousand thousand rounds through

00:54:10.019 --> 00:54:12.599
it a couple thousand rounds through it and no

00:54:12.599 --> 00:54:17.000
matter what i did to whatever chemical treatment

00:54:17.000 --> 00:54:19.320
i use because it's a stainless steel comp pretty

00:54:19.320 --> 00:54:23.900
easy to remove and access and even even with

00:54:23.900 --> 00:54:28.440
a pick I couldn't remove the buildup of the lead

00:54:28.440 --> 00:54:31.820
that or whatever debris was being splattered

00:54:31.820 --> 00:54:37.739
on the inside of that last edge before the bullet

00:54:37.739 --> 00:54:42.400
exits. So to get that aggressive, you need some

00:54:42.400 --> 00:54:45.699
type of mechanical means as opposed to a chemical

00:54:45.699 --> 00:54:48.739
only means when it comes to trying to remove

00:54:48.739 --> 00:54:51.960
that. So that's why I kind of, I asked that question.

00:54:52.539 --> 00:54:55.599
The approach that we use, so the suppressor cleaning

00:54:55.599 --> 00:55:00.460
kit that we provide, it's a concentrate, so it

00:55:00.460 --> 00:55:04.239
does have to be diluted and take some time depending

00:55:04.239 --> 00:55:06.519
on the condition, how long it's in there. It's

00:55:06.519 --> 00:55:07.820
going to take a little bit of experimentation,

00:55:07.980 --> 00:55:11.360
but once you get that figured out, it will clean

00:55:11.360 --> 00:55:16.739
well. Now, the other thing is that I would not

00:55:16.739 --> 00:55:20.679
wait to fire. 2 ,000 rounds through a suppressor

00:55:20.679 --> 00:55:23.539
and then clean it, I would have a probably more

00:55:23.539 --> 00:55:27.800
regulated and more precise cleaning regimen.

00:55:27.940 --> 00:55:30.199
Probably more important for the suppressor than

00:55:30.199 --> 00:55:32.519
it is for the rest of the gun because that is

00:55:32.519 --> 00:55:36.039
going to get dirty fast. Do you have ones that

00:55:36.039 --> 00:55:38.440
are specifically like for ultrasonic that work

00:55:38.440 --> 00:55:40.599
better with ultrasonics or do you concern yourself

00:55:40.599 --> 00:55:43.400
that way? To be honest, with heat and time in

00:55:43.400 --> 00:55:45.980
an ultrasonic, you're not going to be able to

00:55:45.980 --> 00:55:50.690
remove that impact metal impact that's that's

00:55:50.690 --> 00:55:54.769
there um because again the more aggressive you

00:55:54.769 --> 00:55:57.789
get on trying to try to get it back to the original

00:55:57.789 --> 00:56:00.550
weight of i mean that's how you really determine

00:56:00.550 --> 00:56:02.550
that's how you determine whether you've cleaned

00:56:02.550 --> 00:56:05.090
it out you take a weight the weight of the suppressor

00:56:05.090 --> 00:56:09.210
when it's brand new and and then use it and then

00:56:09.210 --> 00:56:12.010
clean it and then measure the weight again are

00:56:12.010 --> 00:56:15.429
you back at the same weight now the problem is

00:56:15.429 --> 00:56:17.889
if you're eating away at base material right

00:56:17.889 --> 00:56:21.510
hey it's it's actually lighter that's a great

00:56:21.510 --> 00:56:25.489
cleaning job right just but you just got to use

00:56:25.489 --> 00:56:29.110
nitric acid it'll it'll decrease in weight so

00:56:29.110 --> 00:56:32.610
it's you know when somebody pays 900 bucks for

00:56:32.610 --> 00:56:37.110
a suppressor you got to be very careful for cleaning

00:56:37.110 --> 00:56:41.070
that and you know we could we get more aggressive

00:56:41.070 --> 00:56:44.849
yes but i think the the problem is i i don't

00:56:44.849 --> 00:56:47.579
want to keep buying suppressors because people

00:56:47.579 --> 00:56:49.639
have been destroying them with our... Well, yeah,

00:56:49.840 --> 00:56:52.360
the difficulties, I mean, still with having to

00:56:52.360 --> 00:56:54.380
register them and everything else, at least currently,

00:56:54.599 --> 00:56:58.179
that's almost, that's kind of almost impossible,

00:56:58.360 --> 00:57:02.219
but you, and the, as an engineer, I mean, I get

00:57:02.219 --> 00:57:04.440
the whole, you could be dealing with aluminum,

00:57:04.599 --> 00:57:06.099
you could be dealing with steel, you could be

00:57:06.099 --> 00:57:08.559
dealing with titanium, you could be dealing with

00:57:08.559 --> 00:57:11.780
other, you know, alloys, and short of taking

00:57:11.780 --> 00:57:14.260
your employees and having them dip their hand,

00:57:14.840 --> 00:57:17.659
The more junior employees have them dip their

00:57:17.659 --> 00:57:19.420
hand in the solution and leave it there for a

00:57:19.420 --> 00:57:23.559
half an hour. As they move up the corporate ladder,

00:57:23.860 --> 00:57:27.119
they'll have to do that less. Toxicity matters.

00:57:27.780 --> 00:57:30.300
Fortunately or unfortunately, I'm also an engineer.

00:57:30.440 --> 00:57:33.059
I'm a chemical engineer, so I know better. So

00:57:33.059 --> 00:57:38.179
I can't recommend something that I know is wrong.

00:57:38.659 --> 00:57:41.820
I touched on earlier as we're finishing out here,

00:57:41.960 --> 00:57:46.510
I'm sure you've got, probably a library of funny

00:57:46.510 --> 00:57:48.570
or entertaining stories if you want to share

00:57:48.570 --> 00:57:50.670
any of that stuff. I also want to give you a

00:57:50.670 --> 00:57:54.570
chance to talk about your YouTube channels, which

00:57:54.570 --> 00:57:56.869
I touched on earlier, which are excellent, and

00:57:56.869 --> 00:57:59.929
I'd recommend them to anybody, even if you're

00:57:59.929 --> 00:58:02.309
on the fence about buying Otis or Shooter's Choice

00:58:02.309 --> 00:58:05.650
products. you know, agnostically, they're still

00:58:05.650 --> 00:58:07.989
very, very informative. And I think that people

00:58:07.989 --> 00:58:10.289
need to go look at that. But the floor is yours

00:58:10.289 --> 00:58:12.889
for, like I said, any funny anecdotal stories,

00:58:13.010 --> 00:58:14.889
anything that we didn't cover that you want to

00:58:14.889 --> 00:58:18.630
cover? Well, I appreciate, first of all, I appreciate

00:58:18.630 --> 00:58:22.190
both you, Craig, and Ken reaching out to us.

00:58:22.869 --> 00:58:25.610
This is really an opportunity for us to be able

00:58:25.610 --> 00:58:29.849
to. show what we do and the reputation that we

00:58:29.849 --> 00:58:33.989
have has been well -deserved by comments that

00:58:33.989 --> 00:58:38.289
our customers provide for us. So we think we're

00:58:38.289 --> 00:58:42.889
very customer -focused, and I've always encouraged

00:58:42.889 --> 00:58:47.489
people to reach out to us or to me. You reach

00:58:47.489 --> 00:58:50.110
our customer service group, and if someone wants

00:58:50.110 --> 00:58:52.269
to reach out to me, they can just ask for me

00:58:52.269 --> 00:58:56.340
by name, and I've done that multiple times. Anything

00:58:56.340 --> 00:58:59.320
that has to do with firearms, I'm always open

00:58:59.320 --> 00:59:02.320
for discussion. It's a topic that's near and

00:59:02.320 --> 00:59:05.039
dear to my heart, so I've got no problems with

00:59:05.039 --> 00:59:09.679
that. I think that cleaning should be no different

00:59:09.679 --> 00:59:14.099
than anything else that someone cares about their

00:59:14.099 --> 00:59:16.380
investment, whether it's your car, your boat,

00:59:16.500 --> 00:59:20.139
your house. uh firearms are the same thing and

00:59:20.139 --> 00:59:22.699
they really need to be properly maintained if

00:59:22.699 --> 00:59:25.179
they if if you're expecting them to perform the

00:59:25.179 --> 00:59:28.340
way they're supposed to um when it comes to oil

00:59:28.340 --> 00:59:31.260
you know i i tell anyone that i've you know any

00:59:31.260 --> 00:59:34.460
train anybody that i've trained if some oil is

00:59:34.460 --> 00:59:39.079
good more is not better and they the the key

00:59:39.079 --> 00:59:43.119
is to use i quite frankly i tend to use less

00:59:44.000 --> 00:59:47.800
um i also clean my guns under magnification because

00:59:47.800 --> 00:59:51.199
i get pretty anal about that i you know i i look

00:59:51.199 --> 00:59:54.360
i've got a lighted lens that i look through and

00:59:54.360 --> 00:59:58.179
i i want to make sure that q -tips i'm not a

00:59:58.179 --> 01:00:01.840
huge q -tip fan i i like uh you know the mascara

01:00:01.840 --> 01:00:06.119
eyeliner type polyester type q -tip uh if i have

01:00:06.119 --> 01:00:08.239
to get in there and do some we have we have some

01:00:08.239 --> 01:00:11.750
of that as well But I get real anal about cleaning,

01:00:11.869 --> 01:00:16.690
and I want to make sure that the gun is clean.

01:00:16.789 --> 01:00:18.530
Is that part of it? You mentioned that you had

01:00:18.530 --> 01:00:20.710
a patent on your patches, which I thought, that

01:00:20.710 --> 01:00:23.190
kind of like, what? They patented patches? How

01:00:23.190 --> 01:00:25.170
do you do that? Is that because they don't leave

01:00:25.170 --> 01:00:28.929
behind fibers and things? No, it is a cotton

01:00:28.929 --> 01:00:31.809
patch. And again, it's, you know, I'm kind of

01:00:31.809 --> 01:00:34.349
anal about that. But it is a cotton patch, but

01:00:34.349 --> 01:00:38.510
there are three slots. on a cotton patch of ours

01:00:38.510 --> 01:00:40.809
it's a round patch with three separate slots

01:00:40.809 --> 01:00:45.030
and we have a youtube video that shows how to

01:00:45.030 --> 01:00:48.929
properly um insert that in through the slotted

01:00:48.929 --> 01:00:52.730
tip and that's kind of what i was describing

01:00:52.730 --> 01:00:56.170
earlier as kind of it forms somewhat of an umbrella

01:00:56.170 --> 01:00:59.829
as you're dragging it through the barrel you

01:00:59.829 --> 01:01:05.760
have 360 degree cleaning or drying as a consequence

01:01:05.760 --> 01:01:11.000
of that unique approach to applying the patch

01:01:11.000 --> 01:01:14.159
through the slotted tape. See, listeners, that's

01:01:14.159 --> 01:01:19.460
kind of almost as a finishing comment here. This

01:01:19.460 --> 01:01:20.960
is the kind of company you want to do business

01:01:20.960 --> 01:01:22.659
with because they're thinking about the problem.

01:01:22.860 --> 01:01:25.300
They're not just copying everybody else's stuff

01:01:25.300 --> 01:01:29.210
and throwing a product out there. And I'm looking

01:01:29.210 --> 01:01:31.650
here that, unfortunately, you guys can't see,

01:01:31.690 --> 01:01:33.170
but I will put a picture of it on the website.

01:01:33.809 --> 01:01:37.769
The kit that we have, which is the universal

01:01:37.769 --> 01:01:41.190
cleaning kit, look, it's worth the money just

01:01:41.190 --> 01:01:44.090
to have the box. Even if they sent the box empty,

01:01:44.250 --> 01:01:46.130
it'd still be worth it because it allows you

01:01:46.130 --> 01:01:48.289
to organize your stuff. But in here, there's

01:01:48.289 --> 01:01:51.150
a lot of the products, not the ripcord, but a

01:01:51.150 --> 01:01:52.750
lot of the products that we've talked about today,

01:01:52.829 --> 01:01:56.949
no stainless steel brushes, and really a well

01:01:56.949 --> 01:02:01.050
-thought -out, The organization, I've got my

01:02:01.050 --> 01:02:04.949
stuff in a box, in a bag, in a box. And when

01:02:04.949 --> 01:02:06.510
I dump it out of the table, I'm like fishing

01:02:06.510 --> 01:02:08.230
through it, trying to find like, where's this

01:02:08.230 --> 01:02:11.469
one thing that I need? So, you know, this is

01:02:11.469 --> 01:02:13.789
why you want to do business with companies like

01:02:13.789 --> 01:02:17.389
Otis and Shooter's Choice. And again, if you

01:02:17.389 --> 01:02:21.050
think that their stuff is expensive, you know,

01:02:21.050 --> 01:02:23.969
guys, think about the alternative of not taking

01:02:23.969 --> 01:02:27.449
care of your stuff and how much pain. If you

01:02:27.449 --> 01:02:29.570
hurt the crown of your barrel and you're going

01:02:29.570 --> 01:02:32.349
to try now chasing, you know, the group is opening

01:02:32.349 --> 01:02:35.230
up and you don't know why, what was the cost

01:02:35.230 --> 01:02:39.309
of that? So, Bill. Sure, yeah, maybe in closing,

01:02:39.389 --> 01:02:44.170
you know, back to why it's important of muscle

01:02:44.170 --> 01:02:46.530
to, breach to muscle is that, you know, what

01:02:46.530 --> 01:02:48.449
do you do with a lever action rifle or what do

01:02:48.449 --> 01:02:51.010
you do with a revolver? The only way you can

01:02:51.010 --> 01:02:54.639
get at the... the breech -to -muzzle approach

01:02:54.639 --> 01:02:58.159
is using our cable system. So that's probably

01:02:58.159 --> 01:03:02.679
the final comment is that we are shooters here

01:03:02.679 --> 01:03:08.579
at Otis. So we not only make and sell our product,

01:03:08.639 --> 01:03:11.599
but we also use our product. So for us, we're

01:03:11.599 --> 01:03:15.619
into it firsthand knowledge, and we also listen

01:03:15.619 --> 01:03:20.260
to our customers. offer solutions to our customers.

01:03:20.340 --> 01:03:22.159
All right. Hey, Bill, thanks very much for your

01:03:22.159 --> 01:03:25.860
time today. That was an outstanding show. I mean,

01:03:25.920 --> 01:03:28.000
all of our shows are outstanding, but this was

01:03:28.000 --> 01:03:30.480
maybe outstanding among outstanding. And we'll

01:03:30.480 --> 01:03:32.659
let you go and get on to running your businesses

01:03:32.659 --> 01:03:35.900
and hope to catch up to you if you're going to

01:03:35.900 --> 01:03:38.980
be personally there in January at the SHOT Show.

01:03:39.500 --> 01:03:43.719
Awesome. Thanks, guys. Same here. Yep. Look forward

01:03:43.719 --> 01:03:46.300
to seeing you. All right, today we had an opportunity

01:03:46.300 --> 01:03:49.739
to talk to Bill, who basically is CEO of a couple

01:03:49.739 --> 01:03:52.159
of the companies, the Otis Company and Shooter's

01:03:52.159 --> 01:03:54.679
Choice, a couple of his companies, talking about

01:03:54.679 --> 01:03:58.119
cleaning products and something that, since we

01:03:58.119 --> 01:04:01.659
are Frugal Firearms, we want you to be able to

01:04:01.659 --> 01:04:03.559
purchase a firearm and maintain it properly.

01:04:04.119 --> 01:04:07.739
And what Bill's company, Otis and Shooter's Choice,

01:04:07.840 --> 01:04:10.929
is really focused on doing is... Precisely that,

01:04:11.050 --> 01:04:13.710
making sure that your investment in your firearm

01:04:13.710 --> 01:04:18.190
is not going to be deteriorated by not properly

01:04:18.190 --> 01:04:21.309
maintaining it. But I mean, do you think that

01:04:21.309 --> 01:04:23.710
the Otis stuff, you know, bills off the line

01:04:23.710 --> 01:04:26.590
now? And Otis stuff is more expensive. Do you

01:04:26.590 --> 01:04:28.469
think he made the case that the Otis stuff is

01:04:28.469 --> 01:04:30.949
worth it? I kind of think he did. Oh, I think

01:04:30.949 --> 01:04:33.030
he did too, yeah. Yeah, because I mean, shooter's

01:04:33.030 --> 01:04:35.590
choice is if you're, you know, maybe the logical

01:04:35.590 --> 01:04:37.849
choice if you're... Not going to put a lot of

01:04:37.849 --> 01:04:39.530
rounds down range, or if you're talking about

01:04:39.530 --> 01:04:42.889
a gun that you don't bet your life on. But as

01:04:42.889 --> 01:04:47.449
the cost of ownership of the product, I mean

01:04:47.449 --> 01:04:50.489
the gun, goes up, I guess you proportionally

01:04:50.489 --> 01:04:53.869
can make excuses for spending more on better

01:04:53.869 --> 01:04:56.170
cleaning material. No, absolutely. I mean, I

01:04:56.170 --> 01:04:58.730
have been using Otis, particularly in my shotguns,

01:04:58.730 --> 01:05:03.599
for years. And the Ripcord is a phenomenal product.

01:05:03.760 --> 01:05:07.420
In my personal opinion, it's the best way to

01:05:07.420 --> 01:05:11.320
clean a shotgun. There's really nothing better.

01:05:11.869 --> 01:05:14.469
Do you like it better than the other, like the

01:05:14.469 --> 01:05:17.010
woven fabric? Absolutely. You like it better

01:05:17.010 --> 01:05:18.670
than the other snakes that are out there? Yeah,

01:05:18.690 --> 01:05:20.449
and one of the things that he had mentioned that

01:05:20.449 --> 01:05:23.409
I didn't comment on when he was here online with

01:05:23.409 --> 01:05:26.409
us, but the fact that it was made out of Nomex.

01:05:26.550 --> 01:05:28.489
And, of course, Nomex is the material that they

01:05:28.489 --> 01:05:33.130
use to make the fireproof suits and so forth

01:05:33.130 --> 01:05:35.550
for the race car drivers. So if there's a crash

01:05:35.550 --> 01:05:40.650
and the car gets doused in fuel before they can

01:05:40.650 --> 01:05:43.889
put them out, the driver is being protected from

01:05:43.889 --> 01:05:47.329
third -degree burns by Nomex, and I did not realize.

01:05:47.889 --> 01:05:51.510
If you want to see the best video ever that shows

01:05:51.510 --> 01:05:56.230
the efficacy of Nomex, go look at the Formula

01:05:56.230 --> 01:05:59.670
One crash of a driver who's no longer in Formula

01:05:59.670 --> 01:06:04.250
One, now he does IndyCar, Romain Grosjean. Grosjean

01:06:04.250 --> 01:06:10.400
hit a TechPro barrier at... almost full speed

01:06:10.400 --> 01:06:13.219
and split it split the car in half and the car

01:06:13.219 --> 01:06:18.079
cut through the barrier and he managed to and

01:06:18.079 --> 01:06:20.639
the thing just ignited and that hadn't happened

01:06:20.639 --> 01:06:24.760
in formula one in decades and he managed like

01:06:24.760 --> 01:06:27.000
everyone's look at this going he's dead he's

01:06:27.000 --> 01:06:28.860
dead there's absolutely no way someone gets out

01:06:28.860 --> 01:06:31.159
of this and all of a sudden he climbs out and

01:06:31.159 --> 01:06:35.400
the only burns he had were on his hands wow So

01:06:35.400 --> 01:06:37.599
Nomex is a phenomenal material, and the fact

01:06:37.599 --> 01:06:41.260
that it's being utilized in this way, not that

01:06:41.260 --> 01:06:43.679
I'm ever planning to get a barrel so hot, cherry

01:06:43.679 --> 01:06:45.780
red hot, that I'm going to need to be able to

01:06:45.780 --> 01:06:47.139
try to clean it at that point in time. Yeah,

01:06:47.139 --> 01:06:50.559
let's clean it now. No, let's not. Let's not.

01:06:50.619 --> 01:06:52.800
Let's wait until it cools down, because I'm not

01:06:52.800 --> 01:06:55.699
in a firefight someplace. But I appreciate the

01:06:55.699 --> 01:06:58.639
fact that the level and the quality of the material

01:06:58.639 --> 01:07:01.929
is being utilized. is is perfect for that type

01:07:01.929 --> 01:07:04.469
of thing i mean obviously the the military people

01:07:04.469 --> 01:07:07.150
would have a much better uh reason for doing

01:07:07.150 --> 01:07:10.949
that but hey it's quality stuff so yeah yeah

01:07:10.949 --> 01:07:13.969
exactly so hey uh because we're honest people

01:07:13.969 --> 01:07:17.510
and if we make a mistake we want to uh be the

01:07:17.510 --> 01:07:20.110
first people to say that oops we made a mistake

01:07:20.110 --> 01:07:24.559
uh the last show where we talked about the glock

01:07:24.559 --> 01:07:28.880
series v or roman numeral v if you prefer and

01:07:28.880 --> 01:07:32.199
tangentially mentioned differences between that

01:07:32.199 --> 01:07:37.710
and the regular Glock Series 5. And brought in

01:07:37.710 --> 01:07:43.530
the discussion also about the Ruger RXM. Actually,

01:07:44.769 --> 01:07:47.949
that show was recorded before either Ken or I

01:07:47.949 --> 01:07:51.210
had seen the actual guts of what had changed

01:07:51.210 --> 01:07:55.389
in those guns. It turns out that they're not

01:07:55.389 --> 01:07:57.510
that different, and it really was just a ramp

01:07:57.510 --> 01:08:02.190
that they basically added to defeat the Glock

01:08:02.190 --> 01:08:04.869
switch. But what happened soon thereafter, Ken?

01:08:05.289 --> 01:08:07.989
Right. They didn't want the people to produce

01:08:07.989 --> 01:08:12.090
the illegal Glock switches and so forth, which

01:08:12.090 --> 01:08:16.369
are out there. So they did make changes, and

01:08:16.369 --> 01:08:19.029
then they immediately came out with a Gen 6,

01:08:19.329 --> 01:08:21.789
which apparently shares all of the internals

01:08:21.789 --> 01:08:25.989
as the... model v uh with some nice improvements

01:08:25.989 --> 01:08:29.210
to it so well no i was referring to the what

01:08:29.210 --> 01:08:32.569
happened like as you saw on the internet a very

01:08:32.569 --> 01:08:36.229
short time thereafter where like within the next

01:08:36.229 --> 01:08:40.689
couple days some somebody came out with a version

01:08:40.689 --> 01:08:44.989
of the glock switch that defeats the all the

01:08:44.989 --> 01:08:47.350
modification that glock had done by putting in

01:08:47.350 --> 01:08:51.170
a ramp to protect the cruciform trigger bar Oh,

01:08:51.350 --> 01:08:55.109
yeah. I totally get that. I mean, the firearms

01:08:55.109 --> 01:08:59.590
people are like us. I mean, we're innovative.

01:09:00.170 --> 01:09:02.170
Yeah, but we're not criminals. No, we're not

01:09:02.170 --> 01:09:04.670
criminals. No, we don't want to do that. But

01:09:04.670 --> 01:09:10.489
people are, particularly with the printing at

01:09:10.489 --> 01:09:14.970
home and the ability, the CAD software, you can...

01:09:17.020 --> 01:09:20.140
basically design things and people are creative

01:09:20.140 --> 01:09:23.920
and I don't want to stifle that creativity. Um,

01:09:24.159 --> 01:09:26.699
but I want people to obviously follow the laws

01:09:26.699 --> 01:09:29.260
too, and I want people to be safe. So, cause

01:09:29.260 --> 01:09:32.380
we all want to enjoy the shooting sports. Yeah,

01:09:32.420 --> 01:09:35.819
and I think that, you know, again, so what was

01:09:35.819 --> 01:09:37.939
the mistake we made? We actually thought that

01:09:37.939 --> 01:09:40.899
there were greater changes in the Glock V series,

01:09:40.960 --> 01:09:44.779
and I even used the term that the RXM was, quote,

01:09:44.800 --> 01:09:47.460
a different animal. That really actually goes

01:09:47.460 --> 01:09:49.899
to the fire control group, or the trigger, if

01:09:49.899 --> 01:09:52.779
you will, but not the cruciform trigger bar.

01:09:53.260 --> 01:09:56.460
That is the thing that the Glocks, which is interacting

01:09:56.460 --> 01:10:00.220
with. So, you know, I want to just put it out

01:10:00.220 --> 01:10:02.300
there that we recognize the error that we made

01:10:02.300 --> 01:10:04.680
and we want to put a retraction out. But what's

01:10:04.680 --> 01:10:08.569
the other big bit of news for us? The Gundy's.

01:10:08.850 --> 01:10:11.609
So do you guys know? Indeed. The Gundy's. If

01:10:11.609 --> 01:10:14.930
you go to the Gundy's dot com, that's T -H -E

01:10:14.930 --> 01:10:18.229
-G -U -N -D -I -E -S dot com. Yeah. The Gundy's

01:10:18.229 --> 01:10:22.069
dot com. There are numerous categories there

01:10:22.069 --> 01:10:25.090
that you can vote for. And these are a lot of

01:10:25.090 --> 01:10:28.729
your YouTube people. Podcasters are one of them.

01:10:28.750 --> 01:10:30.949
We're down there to like third one from the bottom.

01:10:31.170 --> 01:10:34.270
There's a category called most innovative podcasters

01:10:34.270 --> 01:10:37.579
in there. We have podcast to the. Here, podcast

01:10:37.579 --> 01:10:39.500
of the year is the category. Podcast of the year,

01:10:39.640 --> 01:10:42.180
yep. And you go down there and vote for us. That

01:10:42.180 --> 01:10:43.979
would be fantastic. I think we've got about another

01:10:43.979 --> 01:10:47.859
week in a bit. It closes on the 15th, so as of

01:10:47.859 --> 01:10:50.220
the time today is... Five more days. Yeah, today

01:10:50.220 --> 01:10:52.640
is the 10th of probably... This will probably

01:10:52.640 --> 01:10:55.420
hit the airwaves or the virtual airwaves on the

01:10:55.420 --> 01:10:59.600
11th, I imagine, perhaps later today. And we

01:10:59.600 --> 01:11:02.840
really would appreciate a vote. And by the way...

01:11:03.479 --> 01:11:06.479
The stipulation for getting into the Gundy's

01:11:06.479 --> 01:11:09.560
to even get a nomination is, I looked at it,

01:11:09.600 --> 01:11:13.000
it's pretty strict. It's pretty strict. The honor

01:11:13.000 --> 01:11:17.039
to be even nominated is a great honor, and we

01:11:17.039 --> 01:11:19.399
are very thankful of that. Yeah, thankful to

01:11:19.399 --> 01:11:21.659
you guys for making that happen, but now it's

01:11:21.659 --> 01:11:25.500
your time to go out and complete the circle here

01:11:25.500 --> 01:11:31.210
and get those votes in for... You know, not just

01:11:31.210 --> 01:11:33.630
our podcast, but other influencers that you think

01:11:33.630 --> 01:11:37.810
are deserving, or writers and shooters and everything

01:11:37.810 --> 01:11:39.909
else that's in the podcast industry. But please,

01:11:40.010 --> 01:11:43.210
please, please. Vote for us because, oh my gosh,

01:11:43.250 --> 01:11:45.970
that would help us attract better guests and

01:11:45.970 --> 01:11:47.869
then you get a better podcast. And the other

01:11:47.869 --> 01:11:49.770
thing I want to mention is that you can vote

01:11:49.770 --> 01:11:52.050
once per day. It's not just a one vote thing.

01:11:52.130 --> 01:11:55.069
It's a once per day vote thing. So the address

01:11:55.069 --> 01:11:57.489
specifically, if you don't want to meander around

01:11:57.489 --> 01:12:00.949
in the website, is thegundies .com slash vote,

01:12:01.170 --> 01:12:04.850
which is very easy. So other ways to contact

01:12:04.850 --> 01:12:08.779
us are. You can get a hold of us at our website,

01:12:08.920 --> 01:12:11.020
of course, where you can find also our links

01:12:11.020 --> 01:12:16.800
to various social media, Facebook, X, Twitter.

01:12:18.269 --> 01:12:21.090
Previous shows, all of that, all there. Yep,

01:12:21.189 --> 01:12:25.229
Instagram as well. That would be at frugalfirearmspodcast

01:12:25.229 --> 01:12:30.010
.com. The email address is frugalfirearmspodcast

01:12:30.010 --> 01:12:33.770
at gmail .com. And there's a new link also that's

01:12:33.770 --> 01:12:35.930
going to be posted to the website, which looks

01:12:35.930 --> 01:12:38.250
like a little cup of coffee. And what's that

01:12:38.250 --> 01:12:42.850
for? That is a link to our Buy Me a Coffee. uh

01:12:42.850 --> 01:12:46.369
site where if you are feel so inclined because

01:12:46.369 --> 01:12:49.050
you know this show does actually cost us money

01:12:49.050 --> 01:12:52.090
uh to to publish uh we don't make any money on

01:12:52.090 --> 01:12:54.569
this so maybe to defer you know a few dollars

01:12:54.569 --> 01:12:57.810
here and there of the cost of producing this

01:12:57.810 --> 01:13:00.649
show you know anybody who feels so inclined you

01:13:00.649 --> 01:13:03.050
know you'll pop us a couple dollars or two that

01:13:03.050 --> 01:13:05.369
would be that would be beautiful but more importantly

01:13:05.369 --> 01:13:08.770
you know hey tell your friends subscribe like

01:13:09.159 --> 01:13:12.399
Leave a comment. The comments really help the

01:13:12.399 --> 01:13:16.859
algorithm push us to the top. And apparently

01:13:16.859 --> 01:13:19.060
we're doing well enough to get a Gundy's nomination,

01:13:19.380 --> 01:13:21.460
which I never expected. I don't know about you,

01:13:21.479 --> 01:13:24.140
Ken, if you were behind all this or something.

01:13:24.500 --> 01:13:27.460
I wasn't behind it, but I'm very, very pleased

01:13:27.460 --> 01:13:29.739
that we were. Yeah, so all right, guys. Thanks

01:13:29.739 --> 01:13:32.899
very much, and we'll see you next time. Bye -bye.

01:13:51.430 --> 01:13:53.289
You're going to go back to your bathroom? Hell

01:13:53.289 --> 01:13:55.590
yes. I spent all my time laying on the floor

01:13:55.590 --> 01:13:56.390
in the goddamn bathroom.