A pencil, you know, like how many people did
John Wick kill with a pencil? You know, a pencil
is a writing instrument or it could be a weapon
in the hands of John Wick. Welcome to episode
22 of the Flugel Firearms Podcast, the podcast
that is here to help you get the most for your
shooting dollar and the most enjoyment possible
out of all the equipment that's out there that
can be confusing because there's so much of it.
And today is just a show with Ken and I, nobody
else, no guests. We're just reviewing equipment.
We're reviewing various things that we think
that you maybe are a little behind on that we've
paid attention to that we want to bring you up
to speed. Without further ado, I'm Craig, I'm
your host, and Ken, say hi, you are the co -host.
I'm Ken. I'm the co -host. We are both located
in Southern California, and we've both been advocates
of the shooting sports and getting the best amount
of value for your hard -earned dollar. So I look
forward to giving you some of our opinions today
and some various things. We'll probably wander
off topic. I know there's a bunch of things I'd
like to wander off on topic, but we'll see where
we get from here. Let's go for it, Craig. Well,
first and foremost, for new listeners to the
show, and by the way, thank you, listeners. I've
seen some worldwide expansion of the footprint
of the show to places as far north as Finland
and as far south as the southern tip of Australia
into the African continent and South America
and Brazil and Colombia. So very appreciated
the way the show is organically growing. Why
are we in Southern California? Well, I guess
both of us by dint of... fate ended up here.
But we like Southern California, although we
hate the politics. And today is, as we're recording
this election day, the polls actually, yeah,
the polls closed pretty soon in the East Coast
as we recorded this. But I hope by the time you
listeners hear this, election day will be over
in the United States. And I hope you all voted
for freedom. You voted for secure borders. You
voted for freedom and Second Amendment candidates.
Why do we stay here, Ken? I guess we like the
weather. Well, it's an interesting thing. I mean,
I am recently retired this year after many, many
years. I've been working more than 40 -plus years
in information technology management and always
doing firearms as a hobby on the side. It's an
interesting question. The weather in California
is beautiful. The views are beautiful. The mountains,
the deserts, the beaches, all beautiful. The
thing is we're run by crazy people on the left
coast, and it is the left coast. And, you know,
I just recently, as Craig, you know, drove across
country, did a wild tour across country, over
6 ,500 miles, driving and visiting various places.
I could touch on a couple of those. The price
of gasoline here right now in early November
2025 is sitting around a good deal, sitting around
$2 .25 here. Or excuse me, $4. Oh, yeah, I was
going to say not here. $4 .25 here in Southern
California, $4 .25. We were in Arkansas a couple
of weeks ago, and it was $2 .21 a gallon. And
these are areas of the country that have freeze
-thaw. They have beautiful roads, beautiful roads.
Oh, no, we have holes. We pay for lots of holes
in our roads. We're paying double the price in
California, and we have potholes that'll rip
an axle off your car, a dent, a rim, not an uncommon
thing. But our gas prices might go down if they
get rid of the gas tax and replace it with a
mileage tax. Oh, joy. Rapture, yes. Anyway, well,
at least we are within driving distance. of las
vegas which means that we can go to the shot
show every year and we just signed up yeah we
signed up for shot show 26. uh we're going to
be going to industry day which is otherwise known
as range day to be able to get uh you listeners
uh some previews of some stuff that is not even
on the market yet but you know where do you find
those best deals i i know that I've mentioned
this before, but I want to give a quick plug.
And by the way, we're not getting paid anything
for any of this. All the stuff we're talking
about, we're not getting paid for it. Gun deals,
gun .deals. That's actually the site. So it's
singular, G -U -N dot D -E -A -L -S. And a corollary
site, Wikiarms, which is, you know, wiki like
Wikipedia, but Wikiarms are a couple places to
really locate. you know, just the most amazing
deals that are out there. I'm looking at it right
now on my computer and there's everything from
hearing protection to medical kits, to red dots,
to weapon mounted lights, to gloves, all kinds
of stuff. But you can also narrow it down and
you can use that tool to be able to find the
best deals in the category or the actual SKU
you're looking for. And these are all new items.
Is this correct? Yeah, it's all new items. And
one thing. So I was just before we started recording
the show, Ken and I were talking and there was
something that popped up. And I don't know if
I mentioned this before, but I'm very into knives.
I've always been into knives, probably even before
I was into firearms. And I own a bunch of handmade
stuff from various makers. Beautiful stuff. Yeah,
it's all made. Yeah. And expensive. Because it's
so expensive, I'm afraid to use it. And it sits
in the safe because I'm afraid to diminish the
value. I was like, well, why did I? That's a
whole other topic. Why did I buy these things
if I'm not going to use them and let them sit
in the safe? Because they bring you joy. But
they don't. They sit in the safe. Yes, but you
had that display cabinet for quite a while. That
was nice to see. That's true. And now they just
sit in the damn safe. What knives do I actually
use? I use actually pretty cheap knives that
I don't mind destroying. And one thing that popped
up there, it was an Amazon find, and it was called
the REAT, and I'll spell that, R -E -A -T, like
Romeo Echo Alpha Tango, fixed blade knife. It's
a four -inch knife or just a fraction under four
inches to keep it legal. That is... Almost a
kukri shape, even though the blade is very short.
So it has a lot of what's called belly to it.
But the handle, the balance of the knife, actually
the holster for the knife, the quality of the
clip that they use, it's punching way, way, way,
way above its weight. I mean, this thing's on
sale right now for under $17. And I bought a
second one just... I mean, ostensibly, I'm just
going to destroy one of them and see how it does.
D2 steel, which is not the best steel out there,
but it's certainly respectable. Hold an edge
well enough. Takes an amazing edge. So highly
recommended. But there was another Amazon find
I want to point people out to. Before you do,
REIT has a whole bunch of different designs out
there. It's not just the one that you're talking
about. That's true. They have a whole host of
designs. They all look excellent. I have not
had the opportunity to play with many of them
yet, but I will. Well, we're going to be quick
to point something out here. Again, maybe for
the benefit of new listeners. Was it made in
China? Yep, it was made in China. Do we often
cover things that are made in China? Yes, we
do. We're actually going to talk about some stuff
today that's American made. But to think that
you're going to be able to combine frugality
with solely onshore, in other words, U .S. manufacturing.
And if you've listened to our previous episodes,
and by the way, I would encourage people to go
back and listen to previous episodes. Sometimes
made in the USA doesn't mean entirely made in
the USA. It might mean assembled in the USA.
from parts made elsewhere. So are we patriotic?
Yes, Ken and I both are. Very much so, yes. But
Ken, is it realistic to get away from offshore
manufacturing? At this point in time, no. I mean,
again, we're value proposition people. We want
our listeners to be able to acquire, use, and
enjoy value. And to do that right now, a decent
amount of that is offshore. When we do find and
have an entirely Humpston -made America at one,
we will absolutely highlight that. It would be
our preference if it was available, but oftentimes
it's just not available. It just isn't, right.
So, again, previous shows do discuss this, and
actually some of the manufacturers that we've
talked to before have talked about efforts to
not just avoid tariffs manufacturing, you know,
back to the U .S., but also for reasons of quality
and things like that. But the other find that
I had that I have not talked about before that
I found actually a couple of years ago, it's
still available, is a brand called Sarblue, which
is another one of these invented Chinese words
that, you know, has no, I mean, it's just bad
English, right? S -A -R -B -L -U -E. They have
a Moksutov Casagrain. telescope. Now, okay, what
is that? There's various types of ways to design
telescopes. One of the ways to do it is by making
something called a catadioptic telescope. Maybe
you've heard me talk about this before, but I've
built my own telescope and, you know, I ground
my own mirror. I know this kind of stuff. The
catadioptic, meaning folded light path telescopes,
tend to be very, very efficient in size, lightweight,
and they can gather a lot of light in a small
package. So this little guy, I didn't buy it
to look at planets and things like that. I bought
it as a spotting scope to use at the range. It's
very, very high magnification. They make a couple
models. This one's the Mac MAK 6060. They also
make a Mac 70 because catadioptic. telescopes
use spherical ground lenses and not parabolic
which is much harder to do you can make these
things with great precision at low cost and this
thing i've shown it to other people who are into
astronomy and everyone is just blown away by
like wait a minute this cost how much and we're
talking about a list price of a hundred dollars
and like the fancy one is like 150. And you're
talking about something that has, again, batting
above its or punching above its weight by a factor
of five. I'm not kidding. I've seen $500 scopes
that can't do what this $100 scope does. So,
yeah, are you supporting an offshore venture
by doing this? Yeah, you would be if you bought
it. But if you want just an amazing piece of
optical capability. You know, look into this.
I'm going to put a link in the show notes to
this one. So if people want to go grab it, you
know, absolutely. That's the way to go if you
need a spotting scope that's going to really
give you a great image quality edge to edge.
Yeah, and that's important, these very good spotting
skills, particularly since long -range shooting
is becoming more and more of a thing. And long
-range shooting is fun because, number one, you're
oftentimes not shooting a lot, which means that
your cost of ammunition is going to be less because
you're not going to be shooting 100 rounds out
there. 10 or 20 rounds as you tune a particular
load to your rifle or whatever. So good optics,
you'll be able to see a .22 or .30 caliber hole
at a range of 400, 500, 600, 700 yards becomes
very important. thing to be able to do. And optics
like this are something that's going to be able
to assist with that. And, of course, if you're
into black powder, which I'm getting more and
more into the black powder stuff, like a Quigley
rifle and the Quigley rifle shoot, where you're
shooting 800 yards or so, basically lobbing in
these big .45 caliber slugs at 800 yards and
punching little holes in paper. Great fun. After
the initial rifle purchase and so forth, the
cost of each shot is quite low, and you're not
making that many of them. But the optics, the
ability to both see the hole and possibly even
have the camera attachment so you can record
it. Yeah, this does that. It comes with it. In
fact, you know what? While you were talking,
I just kind of noticed something else in the
Amazon feed here. The same scope that I just
said costs $100? If you buy it with a tripod,
which means you're getting more stuff, it actually
costs less. It's on sale at 50 % off at $65.
So that's the link I'll put in. And it does have
a little, you know, like an iPhone holder. I
used this thing to record the full eclipse in
Dallas a couple years back in March of... And
it just did an amazing job. So like you said,
you know, this is a good enough optic. You brought
up long range shooting, Ken. I'm glad you did
that because this thing's good enough to be able
to get like wind reads and things like that,
that lesser optics can't do. Like you'd be able
to see, you know, thermal effects and stuff like
that across, you know, the area that you're shooting
that, you know, lesser scopes cannot do, or you'll
be spending an awful lot of money to do it. So
we covered, let's say we covered a knife. We
covered a telescope. Maybe we should cover a
gun. Recently got myself the Mossberg 940 SPC.
So what is that? That is an update to the 940
line. Last year was the 940. I don't know if
it was last year. 930. I think it was a 930.
Well, there was a 930, but there's also the 940
tactical. Ah, yes. But this is a little bit more
tactical than the. you know, the tactical that
they had before. I said SPC. That was my bad.
It's SPX. SPX. And if you look at Collier Noir's
review of this, he had an absolutely gushing
review on YouTube. He decoded SPX as meaning
super effing tactical, which... Actually, phonetically
makes no sense. Fine, super fine, super fine.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Super tactical. And this is
a 12 -gauge semi -automatic shotgun. Yeah, it
is. With, I think, eight and one, right? So it's
eight in the tube. I've been getting, well, it
depends. And it's actually, I've been getting
seven in the tube. But the tube is actually a
little longer than the barrel. And the reason
for that, is that Mossberg found out that, you
know, the shells aren't very well standardized
for length in 12 gauge. So what they wanted to
do was make sure that people at least using two
and three quarter shells would be able to get
in the advertised number of shells into the thing
and not complain. So it sticks out just maybe
a quarter inch beyond the barrel. It actually
looks kind of cool, but they've listened to their...
consumers on this. And there's plenty of information
out there that this is now, you know, you could
say Beretta 1301, this is gotten to, you know,
and more expensive gun. And this is given the
Beretta 1301 a serious run for its money. I actually
like the way it operates better than the 1301.
It does not require an extra depression. of a
button inside the lift to be able to get the
the magazine to work so it's it's a little bit
more intuitive and direct and perhaps under stress
maybe a little bit uh better design i prefer
i don't know what you think about this there's
there's mixed opinions the 130 the bretta 1301
has like a um a finger guard mounted safety the
940 has its safety mounted up on the tang for
either ambidextrous thumb use. I prefer that
because I don't like the idea of having to go
anywhere near the trigger guard if I'm not ready
to shoot, including taking the safety off. I
mean, you got a thought on that? Yeah, there
have been various philosophies over time as to
how close your finger should be to the trigger
when you're operating the safety. For example,
the M1. Garand or Grand, if that was used to
stand a battle rifle in World War II, had the
safety literally inside the trigger guard. And
people either loved it or thought it was the
stupidest idea in the world. Again, training
with any firearm is going to keep you safe so
that you understand what it is. And I know, Craig,
you talked about like the crossbolt safety was
found on the Ruger 10. 22s and thousands of other
designs that are out there versus the one that's
up on the top of the receiver just above your
thumb. Works great for left and right -handed
shooters. Originally, I used to be a Remington
870 pump guy. That's where I started and really
loved them. Owned several of them. and didn't
really appreciate the aluminum receivers of the
Mossbergs, but I've really come to appreciate
the Mossberg value proposition again. And you
compare it against the Beretta 1301, which is
I think about a 50 % additional premium over
what the 940. I think it's less than that now,
but there, I mean, it's still, you're spending
more and I don't see that you're getting more.
I will tell you this. We put it through a series
of tests where, We put both high and low brass
through it randomly, and the gas system on this
thing adjusts automatically and actually did
a fantastic job of just digesting everything.
Now, Ken ran that test on me, and then I ran
that test on him. When I was shooting, I have
a very, very tight... grip or i i pull the the
weapon very strongly into my shoulder and as
a result the difference between birdshot and
buckshot i really didn't notice hardly at all
you said you noticed it i don't know maybe our
holds are a little bit different you were able
to pick out yeah a little bit different yeah
you could pick the high brass out easier than
i could Right. And I know we're mentioning high
brass versus low brass. These are aspects of
the 12 -gauge shotgun shells. Low brass are oftentimes
target loads. They're oftentimes slightly lower
pressure. High brass ones... have more brass
literally wrapping around the powder area of
the shell itself. And they typically are a little
higher pressure and there's a little bit more
spank to them. And Craig, you mentioned the fact
that there are, there's a whole host of 12 gauge
lengths that are available in shotguns. Yeah.
Obviously the two and three quarter is the, the
standard here in the United States, two and three
quarter or the three inch Magnum. three -inch
long magnum. But they all vary from manufacturer
to manufacturer. It can vary by more than a tenth
of an inch. In Europe, it's two and nine -sixteenths.
What? And actually, occasionally, you run across
a shotgun from Europe here at a gun show or something,
an older one, and it's actually chambered in
two and nine -sixteenths. And now they also have
the three -and -a -half -inch magnum shells that
certain shotguns, particularly pumped, will do.
They're usually goose gun type. for long -range
shotgun shooting and bird hunting. And then,
of course, there are the mini shells, which have
recently appeared on the market in the last 10
years or so, which are these short little stubby
ones, which... Most semi -automatic shotguns
or even pump shotguns will not handle, but they
work great in, in side -by -sides or single shots.
We didn't try that in the, in the, well, we didn't
have any to try it with. I don't think it would
work. Probably wouldn't, but probably would not.
But all I'm saying is there are a whole host
of different types of shotgun shells that are
available, semi -automatic pump, whatever it
might be. You need to practice with whatever
you're going to be putting in there, particularly
if you're going to be using it for a home defense.
scenario whatever something that i did when when
i got the 940 was i also went out and bought
a bunch of and by a bunch i mean like a dozen
uh snap caps now snap caps used to just be for
the protection of the firing pin but in a shotgun
if you want to become proficient at loading it
like doing tactical reloads you know pop one
in you know pop two in things like that And you
don't want to do it with live rounds because,
I don't know, you want to do it in your house
and maybe that's not a very good idea. Right.
They now make ones, and this is another, by the
way, Amazon purchase, for very inexpensive. I
got a bunch of these guys that weigh as much
as a buckshot round. So the weight is correct.
It feels correct in your hand. Snapcats never
used to be that way. But now I can play with
the gun safely and be able to play around with
different reloading methods coming over the top,
coming underneath, using the placard on the side
or sometimes called a caddy, where it may hold
perhaps six shells in an elastic fabric -backed.
uh holder that then is velcroed to the side of
the gun by the way that is a feature that comes
on the 940 built in it comes with a placard that
is in fact the the serial number of the gun sits
on the left side of the receiver and they cut
you know they thoughtfully they cut it out so
you can see you know the serial number on the
gun you read it a few other things that they
offer on that gun is the ability to drop in rmsc
red dot right into the receiver by removing an
adapter plate Drilled and tapped already on top
of the receiver to accept the standard. There
are a couple of different standards, a couple,
three different standards. Well, it comes with
them. It comes with them all. It comes with the
RMR and the doctor and the loophole footprint
adapter plates. Yep. You can change the length
of pole. You can change the cant. There's offsets
for both left and right -handed shooters. And
we're going to get somebody on from Mossberg
to join us as a guest at some point. Right. I
mean, they better because we're giving them a
hell of a commercial here. Yeah. Shotguns are
wonderful things. I mean, and the other thing
about shotgun is you don't aim a shotgun. You
point it. And you're like, what? What's the difference?
There is a big difference. It's more than we
can go into right here, right now. Right. You
know, there's a lot of fun reading. Shotguns
is like an entire world of firearms trivia and
firearms nuances that you have to learn. Well,
if we're going to talk about a world of stuff
to learn about, what's been the big news lately?
A lot of talk about the SIG P320. And if people
haven't heard about this, there was a allegation,
and I'll phrase it that way, a P320 caused the
death of an airman. An uncommanded discharge.
An uncommanded discharge was the allegation.
Now, again, I don't own any SIGs. I have no relationship
with SIGs, and I'm not recommending for or against
SIGs, and neither is my co -host Ken. But there
are many documented cases of alleged P320. uh
accidents based on as ken said the uncommanded
discharge which is not the same thing as a negligent
discharge it's a discharge where the gun goes
off by means other than a deliberate positive
action uh by pulling the trigger well ken did
you hear um the latest news on this Well, no,
I was traveling, so I've not heard the latest,
latest. Okay, so here's the latest. And this
was passed on to me via the magic of YouTube
by Mr. William Kirk of Washington Gun Law. By
the way, a person who we intend to have as a
guest on the show in the future. And highly recommend
his podcast on YouTube. Absolutely, yeah. Fantastic.
And don't think by, and when we're talking Washington,
we mean Washington State, but also don't think
of Mr. Kirk's. information or podcast as being
solely limited to people in the state of Washington.
He does the whole country. He does the whole
country, yeah. But his show is based in the state
of Washington. Turns out that whole narrative
about taking the gun off in its holster, slamming
it down on the table, and the gun going off and
shooting the airman in the chest was fabricated.
What really happened was another airman removed
the gun from the holster and was joking around
in a, you know, a ha -ha manner and shot his
fellow airman. Then when two other airmen came
to investigate, why did I just hear a shot go
off? The way the story goes, as I understand
it, is that the person who did the shooting then
told them, well, this is the story we're going
to run with. That the gun was removed, put on
the table, and the weapon went off in an uncommanded
manner through the holster and killed the poor
guy on the ground. That those two other people
who initially agreed to stick with that story.
i guess have now pled guilty to falsifying an
official record which in which in the military
is not a very good idea career ending yeah well
the thing that surprised me was that mr kirk
said that the punishments that were doled out
for this were respectively 10 and 30 days not
months not years 10 and 30 days in the brig Now,
I would assume that that's also followed by a
dishonorable discharge, but that seems like an
awfully short period of time for a problem of
this gravity. Now, what happened to the guy who
did the shooting? I guess he's going to avoid
prosecution because he has himself died of his
own action. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, he
took himself out probably. As a function of the
amount of guilt or whatever. But he's now gone.
So two people have lost their life and two people
have had their career ruined. Why? Because, A,
one person, for some reason, who's a security
guard, didn't understand the four basic rules
of firearm safety. And two others lied about
it. Ah. Yeah. So now does that... Yeah, so does
that mean that I completely now trust Sig? Personally,
not necessarily. Not necessarily. Yeah, there's
too much other stuff. There's a whole body of
others that are out there who have pointed out
other problems, and they may be related to specific
firearms or combinations of parts. If you're
switching out a factory part for a replacement
part for an aftermarket part, yeah, I don't know.
I don't know. I don't know. I have always held
SIGs in high regard, and I am questioning it
at this point in time, but I have come to no
personal conclusions at this point in time. They
are one of the great firearms manufacturing companies,
and I hope they come out at the end of this.
as highly respected again. I'm going to point
out something else, though. I may provide the
link to this in the show notes. And again, everything
that we're saying here is essentially third -hand
or more, I guess, information. Some of it may
be considered circumstantial. There is a gentleman
who did a two -hour. And as a YouTube video,
two hours is way out there in the margins as
far as length goes. And the title says he's talking
about the P320, except he spends the first hour
not talking about the P320. The first hour of
this podcast, he talks about the corporate culture
at SIG and lays forth a case of, you know. really
bring you into question whether that's a company
you want to do business with in the first place.
And again, these are all allegations. And I'm
not saying that this person knows factually the
entire stories, because in some of these cases
that are talked about dealing with sexual harassment,
dealing with hostile workplace environments and
things like that, I believe that some of these
cases went to before they got to trial. uh were
uh settled out of court and therefore you don't
necessarily know the whole story but i think
that there's some questions there that i would
like at least before i became a customer uh would
want answered to know that i'm dealing with someone
who is ethical and and has you know the right
kind of corporate culture not just the white
outward face uh to the gun community which which
by the way if people haven't been following this
The amount of what was referred to as gaslighting
they've done, whether now justified or not, has
not put them in the eyes of many gun owners in
a positive light. Let's say we turn this around
a little bit and talk about the new Glock V series.
And what is V? I think V is just the Roman numeral
five, right? It's a reimagination, if you will,
of the Glock. Yeah, of the Glock. Now, do you
think there's two ways to look at this? Is this
a reaction? to coming legislation, and by the
way, now current legislation in the state of
California and probably elsewhere concerning
the Glock switch, which is, by the way, is already
illegal? Or is it the fact that all of Glock's
patents expired long ago and Glock knew they
needed a refresh, a technical refresh? And now
we talked about before, after the SHOT Show from
last year, you know, like the Ruger RXM, which
is... It outwardly looks like a Glock. Inwardly
is a different animal. Are they just trying to
now advance the technology? Because when you
look at when the V series was announced, it was
very soon after California announced that they
were going to suspend sales of Glocks in the
state. And by the way, we could already only
get the Gen 3 anyway. But now all Glocks were
going to be. not for sale doesn't mean that they
would come take any that you had, but you couldn't
import anymore and you couldn't sell them because,
you know, they're quote unquote easily converted
to machine guns. And was Glock simply reacting
to that in your opinion, or was this because,
you know, they couldn't have come out with the
V series and said, Oh no, in another month, we're
going to be outlawed. So we're going to. redesign
our guns and announce an entire new set of SKUs
next month. That doesn't happen. That's not how
it works. No. Yeah, I know. Because Glock basically
stopped production of almost all of their firearms.
And they have an extensive selection of calibers
and sizes. All sorts of things. Been making them
for years. And Gen 3s, even though they've been
succeeded by Gen 4s and Gen 5s for many years,
certain large markets like the state of California
would only allow Gen 3s to be sold here. Okay.
And now that they're not going to be making any
Gen 3s, can't get them in the state. The state
just passed this stupid law to outlaw those.
The next question is these. These new Glock Vs,
V for, I don't know, five, victory, whatever
they're going to be. I don't even know if they're
going to be approved by the state of California
for sale here because you've got to go through
that. You've got to be on the list in the state
of California because it's still pending before
the United States Supreme Court. Some lawsuits
about firearms. They can't sell certain guns,
a lot of guns here in the state of California,
just because the state doesn't allow them to
be sold. The state has to approve what you can
own, which is completely against the Constitution
and so forth. But things move very slowly through
the courts, and this one's been out there for
more than eight years, I think, and hopefully
the Supreme Court will pick up some of these
things and pitch out the old. The rules, it's
kind of like saying, okay, you make cars, okay,
you can't make a car that was made after 1999
or whatever. So you can't update it with new
brakes or you can't get a new engine design or
you can't do whatever sort of new technology
or computers. That's the way the state of California
has done it. They've frozen it at a certain point
in time. And yes, it's true they have recently
started adding a few additional ones. It's nothing
like it is. Don't pick up your latest gun magazine,
look at a cover and go, I want one of those,
because chances are you can't get it here. But
God bless you if you happen to live in a free
state or another part of the country, you can.
So, enjoy. Yeah. Other states, even if they have
better selection of guns, have their own challenges
in terms of magazine capacity or in terms of
all kinds of different problems. I mean, we're
not on an island by ourself with bad gun legislation.
I don't think we're not implying that. But the
fact that. Actually, the way the law is written,
a gun that's quote unquote easily convertible
to be fully automatic is a de facto machine gun.
That actually is written in law. Now, whether
that's good law or not good law, I would say
it's not good law because it takes, I mean. a
car could be used i mean i hate to go back to
this analogy all the time but a car could be
used as a weapon or it can be used as a mode
of transportation a pencil you know like you
know how many people did john wick kill with
a pencil uh you know a pencil is a writing instrument
or it could be a weapon in the hands of john
wick in this case i can understand why they would
want a preclusion on the import of the glock
switch because it only has that one purpose sure
but you know to criminalize the gun as a platform
To me, it doesn't make sense. For all you frugal
people out there, I got a modification you can
do that you're going to like. If anybody owns
the Ruger LCP Max, which is a fantastic little,
I mean, very little 380. Things a bit snappy.
And the 380 is not that strong a cartridge, but
the LCP Max weighs nothing. And as a result,
definitely you notice the recoil. And if you
put, there's a company out there called M -Carbo,
like the letter M -Carbo, as in carbohydrates.
I couldn't come up with anything better. That
makes accessories for lots of different guns.
And one thing that they have is a 13 -pound spring,
recoil spring, that you can install to replace
the 11 -pound spring. You're thinking, well,
that's only two pounds different. Yeah, except
that two pounds is also on the order of 20%.
It changed in recoil spring rate. R -A -T -E,
the spring rate, has gone up by quite a bit.
And put one of these things in an LCP Max with
the 11 -pound spring and then changed it to the
13 -pound spring. It took me exactly one shot.
to realize oh my god this is a great improvement
and that's an and that's an inexpensive i mean
that's a very very inexpensive and took one shot
to realize that was the way to go on the other
end of the scale uh the financial scale oh oh
i forgot uh Long ago, we talked about something
that we then have walked away from and not been
doing, which is our ratings. Our rating scale.
That's a good point. Yeah. That M Carbo 13 -pound
spring for the LCP Max, solid 10. Easy. And the
Mossberg 940, it's an expensive gun. I mean,
it's still $1 ,000 the way I bought it. I would
give it an 8. Yeah, I would give it at least
an 8. I'd give it an 8. That Reet knife. Oh,
that's a 25 on a 10 scale. Yeah, exactly. And
the SAR Blue Scope, honestly, if you don't go
buy one of these things and they're $64 and you
need a scope either for looking at game or looking
at your target or looking at the moon or something
like that, you're a fool. I mean, straight up,
that's another solid, solid 10. But when we get
to the DPM recoil system, for Glock pistols,
which is a compound nested spring. In other words,
the spring's captured on the recoil rod, and
it has multiple stages to it. It's therefore
a progressive spring rate. That, I think, would
not... It's an expensive item. I mean, those
things run north of $100. Right. And have one
in my Glock 19. I like it a lot. But what do
I think about it as a value proposition? Probably
not as high because it's kind of hard to just,
I mean, when you think about you're buying a
spring. It's 20, 25 or 20 % the value of the
firearm for a spring and a rod. Yeah. It seems
like a lot. I mean, wouldn't you think that,
I mean, I think maybe for the more serious like
competition shooters. Yes. Yeah. Very serious.
Yeah, but the average guy, no, I probably would
not. I wouldn't put it on something that would
be. I would go out there and do it. Does it improve
it? Yeah, absolutely. It absolutely improves
it. But you got the money to do it. You got north
of $100 to drop on that to try it out, and hopefully
you like it. Maybe some people wouldn't like
it. I don't know. Yeah, and I think that my value
rating for this one, I'm not trying to be evasive,
but the truth of the matter is. The answer, as
in many things, is it depends. If you're a new
shooter or a relatively inexperienced or infrequent
shooter, I would not be able to say that you
could ever get the value out of this, that it
just wouldn't make sense. However, if you're
an accomplished shooter, a competition shooter,
and you can feel nuance, it probably actually
is a great addition because it can do something
that other things can't do. By changing the progression
of recoil, It prevents the frame slap. When the
slide is fully back, it'll lessen that frame
slap that you get, which to some people, I mean,
it'll make the gun last longer because it's getting
less abuse. That might be worth it for you, depending
on what else you've done with the gun. And if
you can get back on your sight picture back on
target quicker, okay, then you pick up a tenth
of a second. Well, that could be a big difference
in a life or death situation. Yeah, that's right.
And then you're not going to be arguing over
the, I spent $85 or $100 on the spring. I mean,
it's going to be the best investment you ever
made, right? Along with training. Along with
training and all, if anybody carries, you buy
premium ammunition for carrying. Please do. Yeah,
you train with the training ammo. That's great.
You should always shoot some of your ammunition
that you're going to be doing, that you're going
to be carrying all the time. You always should
have some practice with it. But I understand
that most carry ammunition that is, bet your
life ammunition is north of a dollar a round.
And for a lot of people, that's a lot of money.
Yeah. And gosh, you brought up something interesting,
Ken. Talking about training ammunition. Oh, boy.
You're familiar with the new battle rifle that
the U .S. military has adopted? The 6 .8? uh
yeah the 6 .8 by 51 that has an 85 000 psi uh
case pressure which is amazing which is but you
know that they're not training with that round
right you know they're training did you know
that yeah they're training i guess with the brass
round and the and the brass round is at a lower
pressure in order to do two things one to save
money because this i mean because those uh hybrid
cases and but what i mean by hybrid is part brass
and part steel with aluminum not a washer but
i think a locking ring between the uh the various
parts which by the way just as a mechanical engineer
would make me think huh by metal corrosion okay
not going to go there um that's that's a separate
topic but the the ostensibly the training round
is essentially the 277 fury which is a brass
cased lower pressure round so What's the wisdom
there? Well, does it keep the gun from getting
beat up? Yeah. Does it save the taxpayers money?
A lot. Yeah. But do you want our military training
with a much lower pressure round? Hmm. Hmm. Question.
And now I understand, and I don't have this on
good authority. Oh, did I mention, by the way,
that the spear, which is the nickname for the
gun, is a SIG product? Eh, just throwing that
out there. There you go. that it now, again,
I do not advertise that I have this on good authority,
that now they've lowered the design case pressure
to 75 ,000 PSI. Yeah, because apparently they're
having problems with the 85 ,000 PSI rounds.
That's a lot of pressure, 85 ,000 PSI. I mean,
I'm not going to dispute that the round achieves
objectives that they couldn't achieve otherwise,
which would be penetration. of now standard -issue
body armor to threats that are wearing body armor
at extended ranges. Okay, I get it. Now I understand
why they did it. But I wonder if they could have
got there by another redesign of the 5 .56, because
that's gone through so many evolutions. Now you
have 77 -grain bullets with great ballistic properties.
or the 7 .62 by 51 the standard old the 308 you
know can we never go back to this thing we used
to do come on now what about the 30 -06 i was
going to say you're going to and you're going
to advocate and you're going to advocate for
the 45 too aren't you well it's a great round
if 45 is a great one particularly i'm not saying
anything bad about 45s but you're not going to
but you're not going to i know maybe you'll get
to now maybe so so if you had to pick let's say
a new round Would you go and remember frugal
firearms? Okay. So ammunition cost matters. Would
you stick with the nine millimeter? Would you
go 30? Would you, well, let me finish. Would
you go super 30, super carry 30, super carry,
or would you go 5 .7 by 28? No, every day, every,
every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Why?
Because it's ubiquitous, okay? And the first
word in our podcast is frugal. So the 9mm has
been made for 9mm Parabellum. 9mm for war, literally.
Parabellum has been available now for over 100
years. I don't know when they did it. I have
to look it up. I think it means prepare for war,
but whatever. Eh, whatever. Whatever. Anyway.
It's been available for over 100 years. There
are hundreds of designs. It is by far the most
popular handgun caliber and probably many carbine
calibers in the entire world. Are these other
ones interesting, the .30 Super Carry? Yeah,
very interesting. No, no, why? Why tell people
why if they don't know what it is? Why would
you want Super Carry? Super Carry gives you more
rounds in the same size frame and they're higher
velocity and thus flatter shooting and probably
a little less recoil and quicker on sight picture.
There are advantages to them. But again, they're
new. They're the new guy on the block. Would
I get one? No. Somebody gave me one. Would I
enjoy it? Probably. But am I going to go out
and buy 2 ,000 rounds of .30 Super Carry? No.
I'm not going to do it. And the same thing with
the 5 .7? 5 .7x28 is a great round. I think United
States Secret Service uses it. If you're attempting
to storm the White House or something like that,
you're probably going to be shot by a 5 .7. I'm
not trying that. No, I wouldn't try it either.
Nor do I advocate that any of our listeners do
that either. There's been enough violence. I'm
just saying that that is a government round.
I tend to stick with the government rounds that
have been tried and true, and a 9mm has been
vetted for well over 100 years. It's great. You're
going to find it everywhere. And that's just
going to be frugal. Will it do everything you
want it to do? Pretty much. If you want to do
something more unique, there are some very nice
new designs with the Liberty. I think it's Liberty
Ammunition makes some like 50 grain 9mm. That's
going to give you over 2 ,000 feet per second.
And some of our listeners don't know. Typically,
the 9mm is chambered with a 115 -grain bullet
projectile. And a 50 -grain, being less than
half of that, comes screaming out the barrel
at an additional 800 or 900 feet per second out
of there. So it's going to be very flat shooting.
It's going to get to the target very quickly.
It's going to smack hard but not necessarily
penetrate as deeply. Again, what are you using
it for? What I like about the 9mm is it's everywhere
and everyone's got it. You'll find it anywhere.
Any gun shop is going to have tons of 9mm for
sale. And if you need something special, somebody's
probably designed around a bullet design, a projectile
design that would be right for purpose. How do
you know about penetration, though? What would
you use to measure that? That's a very interesting
thing. Penetration, you want something that's
standardized. And one of the wonderful things
that the government has done, the FBI in particular,
they have standardized what is considered to
be good for self -defense, for example, ammunition.
And they do that by using a ballistic gel, which
is basically like Jell -O. uh with a particular
formulation of it it's stiff freaking jello man
i wouldn't want to be eating that stuff no it's
stiff but it's basically jello it is just it
is designed to mimic um flesh whether that be
human or or animal or whatever but basically
that and and they have you can get ballistic
gel you can buy it i know craig you've got some
You've got some really cool clear gel stuff.
I bought mine from Clear Ballistics, yes. And
it's a little costy, but it's so much fun, honestly.
And it's reusable. It is reusable, yeah. And
you melt it down. But the thing is, it loses
a little bit of clarity every time you cook it.
But what's the alternative? The alternative is
that you can make homemade ballistics gel out
of, like, Knox gelatin. But what do you run into
then? I mean, well, is it cheaper? Yeah, it's
cheaper. No question. Is it as clear? Not anywhere
close. Not anywhere near as close. And you know
what? You can make it more clear, and I forgot
what you add to it. I want to say it's, oh, there's
an additive you can, I think it might be hydrogen
peroxide. I'm not sure. There's something you
can add to the homemade stuff that makes it much
more clear and less yellow. But the other problem
is that it's very temperature sensitive. right
you have to keep it cold you have to take it
to the range of the cooler if you live in a hot
place right because it starts to literally melt
and then it kind of blows apart and it i don't
know i thought for me right i would buy the the
clear ballistics and get the 10 stuff that the
fbi uses 10 what comes in 10 and 20 concentrations
uh and you can also do what what uh paul harrell
did on his um his YouTube videos. Paul Harrell
was a, he passed away recently of pancreatic
cancer, but he has, I think hundreds of videos
out there. And he always did a meat target where
he had denim, you know, that he'd have covered
up, that he'd have. He usually bought pork ribs,
I think it was. I like pork ribs, though. I don't
want to shoot him. You'd shoot him. Behind it,
you know, he had whatever, a bag of oranges to
simulate lung tissue. And on the back, he had
more pork ribs. Yeah, more pork ribs on the back,
and I think it wrapped it with denim. So he basically
was assembling a torso. And he would shoot these
things with all sorts of different calibers.
And he'd go through and take the meat target
apart and say, well, it hit the bone and went
this way. And he'd look at the destructive capabilities
of it. But that's such a mess. It is a complete
mess. But again, I would recommend to those of
you who've not listened to Paul Harrell, H -A
-R -R -E -L -L, I believe, Paul Harrell, maybe
one L, I'm not sure. but paul passed away recently
but he has his youtube channel is still out there
it's being run by his brother right now uh he
was a fantastic uh youtuber uh firearms guy uh
definitely opinionated had a lot of opinions
a lot of training over the years i would recommend
uh tuning into some of his um his youtube videos
that he's produced and even some of the new ones
that his brother's been producing so i want to
say that the garren thumb guys And by the way,
I do believe that is the correct. Most people
say grand. I've heard that that is the incorrect
way to say it. It's actually Garand. So I'm going
to stick with that until, well, I'm never going
to meet the guy until I get to heaven, but whatever.
Right. The, the, that Garand thumb, I think uses
the, I believe it's them on their YouTube channel
has used the same technique of ribs and fruit
and denim and, you know, all strung together.
But Holy crap. Is that a lot of. Exactly. You
tape it all together. Clear Ballistics, Joe,
what does it do for you guys? I mean, why would
you spend the money to buy a block? Just buy
one because you can use it over and over. It
gives you the objective, consistent, round -to
-round comparison. I could compare the Super
Carry to the 5 .7x28. I could compare it to 9mm.
I could compare it to 45. Recently, I posted
a video that, by the way, I shouldn't have done
it this way because I was too close. It blew
powder into the gel, which then becomes part
of the yellowing of the gel. But I posted a slow
motion video of when we were at the range last
time shooting a .223 and how incredibly destructive
that is compared to like... an FMJ nine millimeter
that just scoots right through. And like, is
there a hole here or not? So you, yes, you can
make it yourself. But honestly, guys, you know,
my value proposition for, if you want a gel that
you're going to do this as a hobby or even as
a profession, I would still say, spend the money.
Even if it's not frugal, get the clear ballistics
gel, get it on sale. They run sales and get the
mold and buy the mold. so that you have the correct
mold to melt it back in and then you've got the
same size block when you're done you know you'll
spend 100 bucks on this but it's going to last
you and you're going to get consistent results
if you can't do that there is a site and just
as we kind of close out here because i think
we're you know pretty much at the end of the
podcast lucky gunner labs Lucky Gunner sells
is a source for ammunition. Lucky Gunner Labs
is their subsidiary or I guess, you know, little
brother site where they do testing of ammunition.
Now, admittedly, it hasn't been updated in a
long time, but they have some amazing tests there
that show caliber to caliber and within a caliber,
many, many, many different options of what the
ballistics gel. results would be now why do i
say this is important because at least the ammunition
that i carry i have vetted against their tests
and specifically i'm talking about their handgun
self -defense ammunition ballistic test which
i'm looking at right now that allows me to know
that i have around that is going to be consistent
round around in terms of penetration because
under penetration might not stop the threat but
over penetration could be worse because it might
hit something beyond the threat um that you don't
want to hit and remember just because you quote
unquote know what is you know around your target
and beyond it doesn't mean that's where the bullet's
going i mean the bullet can come out sideways
When it hits bone or just turning in a viscous
medium, it can go a direction you didn't expect
and exit that thing you shot. And this allows
me to know that I've got a high performance round
with good expansion and allows me to know that
that round performed consistently and didn't
have big differences round to round in penetration.
Because as a legal consideration, I think it
matters. You may have some thoughts on that,
Ken, whether maybe I'm just paranoid or something.
No, I don't think you're paranoid at all. I think
you brought up some very good points. We have
some products that we've received that we are
reviewing. And by the way, listeners, in cases,
it's normal for podcasts to get samples to review
because otherwise you can't intelligently talk
about something and you can't ethically talk
about it if you've never seen it or used it.
And in every one of our cases, and there are
cases of this, if the manufacturer sends us a
sample they want back, they get it back. We're
not doing this to get swag. That's not the point.
But we now have an early release of the Mantis
Titan X. And that is, I think... Go ahead. I
think it's a game changer for basically training
purposes at home, that type of thing. We haven't
had too much time playing with it yet, but basically
it is a Glock 19. Like you said, it's a game
changer because it allows you to get objective
feedback and go back to listen to our Mantis
episode, please, folks. And you'll see that you
can get feedback from this. You can't get anyplace
else. That's true. And basically. It's a laser,
and it's going to, with a highly sensitive directional
accelerometer that's built into this simulated
pistol, okay? And basically, it will tell you
during the half a second before you're pulling
the trigger whether you're... pulling it down
to the left, jerking it to the right. It's going
to capture all of that, and it can display that
either on a smartphone or a tablet. So this is
a way of basically practicing, and you can also
practice magazine changes because it's got full
-size Glock magazine changes that you can do
on it. And it's a phenomenal tool. Every time
you squeeze the trigger, you don't have to cycle
the... Well, don't give too much away. I won't
give too much away. Because we're going to be
doing that show. I'm saying... It's a phenomenal
tool. I think the list price is going to be around
$200 or so at that range. And frankly, I think
it should be purchased by pretty much anybody
who has a 9mm that they're going to be using
for home defense. They want to practice and necessarily
either can't afford to or can't get to the range
as often as they would like. Or just wants more
reps and sets because, I mean, you can do it
in your house safely. I mean, how long does it
take to burn through $200 in ammo? This is going
to last a lot longer and give you more rips and
sets. And the other shows that we have coming
up with Vantage Point, pardon me, Vantage Point
that makes a rail mounted compensator. And another
one is Otis, which by the way, yeah, if you don't
know, Otis is the same parent company that owns
Shooter's Choice. So in terms of, you know, really
some of the premier gun cleaning and maintenance
equipment out there. And we're going to have
them featured up pretty soon, too. All right.
So I think that about wraps it up. Just a you
and me show. We haven't done a product review
show in a very long time. And I mean, just a
you and me show, that is. We've had, of course,
guests that we're going to be getting more on.
We have other things on our list we didn't get
to today. Active hearing protection is something
we're going to be talking about. the Rock Island
Armory 1911 series. We're going to be talking
about that as well. We're going to be talking
about an adjustable trigger for a Glock, at least
the Glocks that are, you know, the legacy ones,
not the V series, and actually a number of other
products that you're going to want to tune into.
So what do we want our listeners to do for us
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as much as we do, but you don't have the multi
-million dollars that we'd all like to have,
we try to highlight those things that are going
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what? We're not clairvoyants. And while we do
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the best values out there, we don't necessarily
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reach out to us at frugalfirearmspodcast at gmail
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one more thing, listeners. Hey, you know, these
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it very much. Yep. Thank you very much, listeners.
And we'll be back again soon. Good night. The
problem here is that we also have a drink package
that went with this so I can drink as much as
I want, which in this case may not be a good
thing. No.