When you look downrange at the $375 light or
the $37 light that I picked up off Amazon and
they throw the same beam, and I'm not a tier
one guy, I want to light this reliable that does
what I need it to do and doesn't break the bank.
And yours does something that other lights don't
do. Welcome to episode 21. Yes, number 21. The
show is now fully legal of the Frugal Firearms
podcast. The podcast is here to reveal stuff
that you're just not going to find any place
else. And not only do that, but save you money
and make the most of your investments in shooting.
Today is going to be a really very... Very interesting
show because we got a prototype. Well, not literally
a prototype, but we got a pre -release version
of something that you guys are going to want.
I mean, I'm going to want it. My co -host Ken's
going to want it. You know, everyone really in
a home defense scenario is going to want. We
had the opportunity to look at full spectrum
lightings, new 180 degree. Weapon -mounted light.
Yes, I did say that. 180 degrees it illuminates.
So not worrying about how large the cone is,
and you've heard all these discussions before
about various competitors talking about how big
the center dot should be and how wide the throw
should be on the cone of light. This covers it
all. And we did actually do some measurements
on this last night, and we're thoroughly impressed.
We've been talking to the owner of this company
now since the SHOT Show coming up on 10 months
ago, Mr. Roy McGovern. He's joined us online.
But first, as always, let's bring on my co -host,
Ken. Ken, what was your impressions of the light
that we reviewed last night? Very impressive.
I mean, I have been used to your typical weapons
mount and light where it throws a beam pretty
much just in front of you, you know, with a certain
width. This particular one gave you complete
illumination, a 180 -degree illumination. I think
the human eye does a little over 180 for most
people, like 185 to 190 or something. Kind of
the reason I know that is my mom had macular
degeneration. And, of course, the main thing
about that is you lose your peripheral vision
until finally you lose your entire vision. So
it kind of shrinks from the outside in. But the
great thing about this light is, wow, we did
it outdoors. We tried it in several different
scenarios. And when you turn it on. So it's like
both sides of you, everything that you can see
on the side of your peripheral vision, as well
as what you focus on most likely at the center,
is illuminated. So if there's somebody standing
there, you didn't know it, or a dog, or whatever
it might be, very impressive. Yeah. So we had
some interesting comments that we wanted to mention
about it, but with that, I can pass it back over
to you, Craig, and we can get Roy going here.
Yeah, we don't want to, you know, shoot our dog
or shoot much less. family member or something
like that, just because you hear a noise off
to the side. And it's going to sound euphemistic
to say it's like the sun coming up, but it's
much more of a daylight -like scenario than you
can't even imagine this really, honestly, until
you use it, unless you simply go to turn the
lights on in your house, how much better this
is than what's out there. welcome to the show
again uh roy mcgovern uh thank you creator of
the full spectrum lighting and roy what was the
inspiration for this what you know why do you
enter a space that's so damn crowded with competitors
all the way from the cheapest thing on amazon
up to the very very expensive competitors oh
i i still i still ask myself that question um
but yes you're you're up against Creating a new
car tire, you know, it's round. It does the same
thing over and over. And so that redundancy starts
to limit the scope of ingenuity. Right. And so
when I owned a mortgage company, I helped out
a lot of law enforcement folks and had no technical
background in engineering or. constructing flashlights,
but there was a incident where someone was killed
and I watched the body cam over and over and
over. And it was resoundingly scary because Sacramento
is notorious for how many trees they have. And
it is very, very dark in certain neighborhoods
there. And so that being the impetus of trying
to help the situation that is presented to these
deputies and officers. That's why. And I kept
asking myself, what if they could see a little
more? I'm saying a little more in addition to
their existing weapon mounted light. And so I
came up with this Frankenstein idea of bending
an led holder 180 degrees and putting that inside
a reflector housing the the main issue is that
you don't have a cone anymore right so it's going
to be a completely different style of light so
there wasn't much to work from or any reference
points and so After having a couple samples of
it, I attended a Cops West convention down in
Ontario back in almost three years ago. And it
won the best in show, or excuse me, most visited
in the show both days. But unfortunately, it
was too large for their gear. And so there were...
About 30 agencies there and 19 of which were
very selective with, you know, Roy, if you can
build this that fits our pistol and long gun,
we are absolutely interested. We'll absolutely
help you. You know, you can ask us every question
you seem or you may deem trivial. And so I have
to give them. the majority of the credit because
i would i would keep coming up with scenarios
that i learned just like you or ken would online
you would see performance you would see lumens
you could you would see battery life but in reality
a lot of those product bulletin details don't
apply to the majority of the situations that
they needed me to help with so for example you
know when you have a corona and a candela right
so the hot spot is on the wall that's your candela
but the aura around it is your corona well the
brighter a light on a wall is the less and less
you're going to see on your left and right it's
just that's how the eye works um and so oddly
they were getting too bright um in certain circumstances
because they would bounce off um you know acrylics
and uh gloss paint walls windows mirrors inside
the home um and so so those that was just an
example of how at times the industry is very
disconnected with the end user. And so, as of
about two months ago, I finally was able to get
the samples that are basically 95 % done. The
rest is just going to be cosmetic, slight updates,
battery, USB -C charging port, things like that.
But one of the other things before we move on
that struck me as astounding is that of all the
flashlights in the world none of them that go
on a gun have a warning when the battery's running
out that that to me was the most lacking detail
um that that i had I had ever experienced when
comparing one product to another. And so I can
speak freely about it now, but there's a husband
and wife team in Stockton, California, and they
work evenings. And that's one of the more dangerous
locations in the country. Oh, yeah. Oh, my goodness.
And so, you know, they would describe certain
situations where you're... You don't have time
to change a battery during a foot pursuit or
even in a clearing of an area. They're not even
going to they're going to turn their gun light
off and go to their backup. I'll call it traffic
ticket light. Right. So that was very helpful
to me. So I said, well, listen, what if on the
back of the gun light resting against the trigger
guard, if two. extremely faint led red lights
came on when you had less than 20 percent left
and he said that that is going to be the best
thing in my opinion roy that you could offer
i get the whole 180 degrees that's that's that's
really intriguing and it's very effective for
us but when i know the battery is going to die
that keeps my confidence high it keeps my panic
low And so it's actually pretty clever because
the light is so weak, it'll only illuminate if
you're right -handed. Your left hand, your thumb,
you might see a little bit of red on it. Okay,
so just to make sure what you meant by that,
because you said the light is so weak. You don't
mean the light coming out at the target. You're
talking about the LED that refers to battery
strength. Yeah, back toward your eyes. You can
see when the weapon is deployed. So you're not
getting blinded by your own or distracted by
your own battery indicator, and it's not using
much power. Oh, yeah. It's a very subtle glow.
I'll call it the radius of an IV poke, right?
When you've got to get an IV at the hospital,
it is about two -tenths of a millimeter round.
And so it's waterproof and there's no sealant.
That's how small that hole is because the water
will just film over. It won't penetrate something
that tight of a radius, but it will because when
your gun comes up and it's at eye level, you'll
see your thumbs, you know, a very faint red light
and that is not meant to capture. Any amount
of attention other than go to your backup light.
So you click the light off, go to your backup
light, you're in business. Well, what kind of
battery life are you seeing on the device? Your
average person, and by the way, let's set the
table for this. You vetted this through primarily
law enforcement and military in the design process.
Is that true? Yes. How do you see your going
forward? I mean, obviously you've got that market
because you vetted it with these guys. And I'm
assuming that many of these departments are going
to follow through and do the right thing and
actually buy your product, you know, once it
comes to, you know, fruition and final design
and becomes available. But what is the rest of
your anticipated market look like in terms of,
let's say, homeowners, things like that, individuals?
And does the design change at all for those markets?
Or is it the same product? I think there could
be another iteration of it that wouldn't require
much. Like we had discussed, I'll call it tactical
versus consumer. The tactical version, we had
the left and right LEDs dimmed a little bit just
in case you're clearing a larger, say, parking
garage where there's no power. That's a mainstay
in Central California. So, you know, you start
to round the edges. Well, you don't want the
lights, you don't want them too bright. But again,
for the consumer. And then it comes down to battery
life. So does the consumer want all three LEDs
blindingly light or bright? Sorry, I would say
yes. And so if battery life can be sacrificed
a little and taking into consideration these
shooting scenarios for a homeowner or a carjacking,
they're not going to last more than two or three
minutes. If somebody is going to carjack you,
the hope is that you can get your gun up and
hold it kind of at the window as you're looking
away to blind anyone coming towards you. But
that situation would go fast. As far as the home
protection, I think it's the same thing. I think
if you go out to your backyard, where I live,
there's a lot of detached garages and they get
robbed a lot. So if you're going out into that
setting, I would think a lot of shooting ranges
and range masters would tell you, if it's out
of your sight, line of sight, stop pursuing it,
back away, call law enforcement and get a very
safe defensive position. So that's a long answer.
The quick answer is yes. I think it's appropriate
to have a consumer version that'll last a little
bit less. than the tactical but a lot brighter
because you don't train for that every day like
they do because you mentioned the thing that
the the reason that we saw the amount of light
output that we saw and by the way for listeners
No one here is saying that the prototype or the
95 % version we saw was not an adequate amount
of light. It is absolutely adequate, particularly
indoors. I mean, I was using it outside at ranges
of nearly 100 feet. Right. And, Ken, you said
it last night. Ken, I mean, would you take a
shot at 100 feet with a handgun? I'd have to
have a darn good reason for it. Yeah. No, I mean,
defensive range is, you know. Probably 15 yards
would be my absolute maximum. Yeah, because probably
anything beyond that, unless it's just some sort
of a, I don't know, Hollywood, almost unimaginable
situation, you may not be justified in taking
the shot. There's probably other people around.
I mean, it just isn't probably a bad choice.
The longest shot I would ever probably take is
inside the church where I go to. you know where
i sit type of thing where it's a larger auditorium
type of thing and if i had to take a shot uh
that could be upwards of 100 feet but it and
that would be and very planned if i would have
had to do that that's a that's a tough one though
because there's going to be so many people around
and i mean even getting day or night getting
a clear shot it's going to be a tough one no
matter what but you know roy's product used indoors,
which we also did, and used in an outside corridor,
which kind of simulates an alley. It was great.
It was awesome. And for people to understand
the type of light throw that we're talking about,
the lens on the device throws kind of a bowtie
effect. Now imagine the knot of a bowtie, and
it's... bit rectangular isn't it that center
section is not round it is in fact rectangular
like almost like the silhouette of a standing
man um which is kind of a neat feature because
it illuminates a person fully head to toe at
a very you know reasonable range but then the
the two lobes shall we say to the left and right
are sort of again the bow tie effect of it spreads
vertically which arguably is a good thing because
as you scan to your left and right, even if you're
not actively scanning, but peripherally, I said
that right, didn't I? Peripherally scanning,
you're getting some vertical information, a guy
on the floor, a guy standing at the top of a
stairwell, something like that. So yeah, go ahead,
Roy. I hope I didn't throw you off your story
there, but really we want to talk about what
differentiates your product from all of your
competition. Feel free to name them if you want
to, and you told me, by the way, that the law
enforcement people said that they had a couple
types of lights, which I won't mention if you
don't, that they wanted to be able to fit into
their holster, and you want the form factor to
be able to use the same holster. And that's not
saying anything bad about those companies. It's
just yours is different. Yeah, and those holsters
cost money. Exactly, Ken, and I'll never forget.
almost 20 locations that, you know, their fleet
manager and the range master came over and they
said, oh my goodness, that'd be so awesome if
you shrunk it down. But then there were six of
those locations that said, we will buy those
the moment they're ready, as long as they fit
our Glock 17 and Safari land holster. And so
that, that constraint. proved incredibly difficult
it felt like we were building a smartphone you
know when you start expanding from a single led
to three leds the problem is you have to have
a driver right you have to have a toggle as well
because if you want to go from eight you know
180 degrees down to 35 degrees you need what's
called a driver as well like a printed circuit
board now If you have like the, you know, the
most two traditional lights out there are surefire
and stream light, and they have one cone and
one led that throws the light. So that put into
perspective is very, very simple that that printed
circuit board is about the radius of a nickel
and the led is right in the middle of it. So
all you have to do is connect a battery on both
ends and you're hot. Now, if you try to tell
an led holder, which is just imagine a real thick,
heat -sensitive piece of duct tape with three
LEDs on it to switch from 35 to 180. That created
a logistical issue. But I do think the folks
that I'd met, especially the state of California
and Stockton, I mean, they were just... Probably
getting annoyed they didn't show it, but I could
tell. I'm like, man, I'm asking them so many
questions. Well, Craig, you hit on a very important
aspect. At about 15 feet away, they didn't want
the round. They wanted me to throw a doorway.
That's why it's rectangular. And so when you're
clearing a doorway and you have slightly less
illumination, within that 180 degree span on
your nine and three, you're hopefully seeing
enough in your periphery where it's not something
you need to fire at or engage with. Hopefully
you're aiming at a doorway or a hallway or walking
around a blind wall that has a long span. Right.
So that way you can kind of turn the light as
you're walking around a corner instead of getting
your entire body or your entire right arm around
the corner to clear it. But yeah, the quick answer,
that rectangle is very much intentional and it's
to throw the doorway. Because what I'm what I'm
envisioning here is almost like and what you've
been talking about seems like the light was designed
for interior space. searching the house, searching
and so forth. And I can definitely see what you're
talking about, where you want to have that square
or rectangular illumination. And then the other
one is the outdoor one. I'm thinking of, you
know, I watch the cops who do up in Alaska or
different parts of the country. They're never
indoors. They're always outdoors someplace. And
to them, I think the... wider center thing that
throws a a further distance one so i almost either
envision like two versions of the lens one for
interior uh sort of work uh that's where you
anticipating it being for urban environments
and then perhaps one for um more out in the country
type people where people are going to be throwing
things at a further distance or whatever, and
they're going to want that longer throw. Do you
mean interchangeably? Is that what you mean?
Not necessarily interchangeably. I mean, you
might buy it with, I mean, the lenses that I
basically saw that were on there, I mean, you
can buy it with one lens, which has what we basically
saw. Long range and short range. Long range and
short range type of thing. And depending on what
type of, work you tend to do if you're an urban
cop and you're in an urban environment you're
in buildings you're in these things okay then
you want this particular lens if you're not if
you're uh you know country sheriff you're out
in the middle of wyoming or wherever you know
you're just doing further things out then you
need you need the different type of lens i'm
just i'm just spitballing no no no no that that's
you're spot on as a matter of fact was that a
pun Well, the state of California. So imagine
you're in the middle of nowhere approaching people
that are poaching fish. Right. And that's black
dark. That's like where I live in Western New
York. I mean, there's no light. But what we did
is you can see on the sample that you have, there
is a half dome. OK, so we'll call that a dome
refractor. All it does is magnify the light.
That's all. That's every headlamp, every high
beam headlamp on every car. It's just a little
dome in front of a big LED. And so we're going
to put three of those on for the out for like
Madera County for Fish and Game for, you know,
Henderson, Nevada. I mean, that the light you
lose that light. And if there's no reflective
properties where you're at, like more desert
landscape. Yeah, Henderson, there you are, right?
Oh my God, that's the light's vulnerability.
Every single one, you know, if you don't have
anything for it to bounce off of. But no, no,
no, I'm, well, we were very aware of that. And
for certain scenarios. Because you always hear
about the larger agencies, but there's far more
that are not in urban settings. Yeah. You know,
I mean, NYPD, they very rarely have any gun lights.
It's so dense. And there's so much light all
the time. So that was peculiar. I guess every
department allows you to buy your own equipment
and holster. It's Rangemaster approved, but like
you said, Ken, when you're outside, if you're
on a traffic stop on I -5 past Bakersfield, you
know, at times there's nothing. You want to at
least circle to one side to keep them both in
a span of light. That was exactly what the captain
told me. She said, we have pulled up on people
so often and they run left and right, hoping
one gets away. And when you turn a focal beam
on someone, you're going to lose from the peripheral
deterioration. You're going to lose that person
running to the left or right, the opposite direction.
And so, but yeah, quick answer. There's going
to be a triple dome frontal reflector housing.
And it's going to be chromed on the inside. The
one you have is just a matte black. The reason
we did that is I wanted to see if the LEDs eventually
melted the lens housing under duress. I didn't
notice any thermal effects at all. I mean, we
ran it quite a bit last night. I mean, for an
extended period of time, and I never... There
are companies out there where they have a reputation
for having very hot lights, and I won't mention
who. But I thought yours, in the configuration
you sent us, which I understand is not production,
I thought it actually ran rather cool. Yeah,
and I think a lot of it will come down to the
proper heat dissipation is... critical especially
when you start getting like these name brand
lights they're they're adding more and more power
it's almost like if you go to a top fuel or a
funny car race they keep getting faster and faster
but more and more dangerous right they blow up
faster right you know they used to have 8 000
horsepower now they have 12 000 horsepower so
you used to have 500 lumens now you have a thousand
so i think it all comes down It's all marketing.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What else do you have? I mean,
it's such a restrictive product. But I think
a lot of it's going to come down to the type
of LED. There are actually LEDs with little domes
on them. Yes. Okay. All right. So we're thinking
of doing domed LEDs behind the refractor domes.
you can turn the battery down a little bit and
get the same brightness, right? So I think those
are the ways to work around it. But yeah, having
the top flat and long relative to the LED size,
so what slides under the gun to the polyurethane
portion of the gun where the Picatinny rail is,
a lot of the flashlights aren't flat. they're
undulating so you'll have a round say lens cap
in the front right but then then it goes to an
oval body to hold two cr123 batteries so you
don't have that uniform surface well mine has
a uniform surface from front to back on the ceiling
of it so when you see the production version
it's going to be even It might even feel like
it's underperforming because the whole thing
will be metal, but the heat sink is going to
touch the top and both sides, so it'll send all
of the heat back. And by the time you're touching
that toggle, it would only be maybe lukewarm.
So is it going to be aluminum or zinc? Are you
going to do the... I mean, because aluminum dissipates
heat a little bit better than zinc does or is
less expensive than titanium or something. Yeah.
The heat sink, imagine you have your round battery
and our heat sink is U -shaped. So the battery
fits into the heat sink. On the outside of the
heat sink, the LEDs are wrapped around it. And
so it not only pulls any heat collection away
from the LEDs, those aluminum walls are touching
the ceiling. the battery stays protected and
you can charge it more often. I don't want to
split hairs, but the higher and higher of a temperature
you put the battery through, the less and less
it will recharge to 100%. You're going to have
that constant degradation downward. Yeah. Lithium
-ion batteries only have a certain number of
cycle times. Yeah, we get that before we have
to do it. I'm sitting here slightly incredulous
because we've talked before, Roy, and your background
is not engineering. No. This is about the most
engineering show I've had yet. I mean, in terms
of the detail and so on. I mean, people talk
roundly about features, but, I mean, you really
understand your product. And all the background
you ever gave me didn't give me any indication
that you'd be able to have that much of a detailed
knowledge of what you're doing. You know, I think
in all. i'll try to summarize it maybe for another
podcast we can go into the full reason but um
you know i wanted to be in law enforcement but
i didn't want to go to a local academy so i figured
i'd get a job and save up and pay for the academy
uh the post academy in sacramento so i could
go anywhere i wanted well i got a job and it
was it was this it was the worst job ever But
it was a bill collection agency. And they said
in the newspaper you could make up to $5 ,000
a month, right? So I figure, okay, you know what?
I'll work here a couple months. Boom, back to
the academy, done. Not so much. So these American
Express bills would range from $5 ,000 to $500
,000. Collection effort required mortgage lending.
So some of these corporate and platinum and black
card holders would refinance their house to pay
that bill off. Most commonly with a builder who
ran short on his funding and put 10 houses roof
bids on the Amex card. Well, you only have 30
days with those cards and then it's due. So I
just referred everyone I could to Transamerica
Financial because I'm not a confrontational person.
And the loan officer there said, hey, I'm on
salary and you're getting to know how these home
loans work. And I highly recommend you start
a small mortgage brokerage because you will have
the cheapest referral source on earth that is
of the highest revenue. per transaction compared
to, say, you know, a small little second mortgage
or rate and term refinance where the fees are
very minimal. So I started Sterling Mortgage
Services and American Express found out directly
and they loved it. And so that was in 98. Well,
in 99, I'm traveling the world to their call
centers telling the bill collectors how you know,
to properly refer somebody for a home loan to
pay off Amex. Okay. So way more money than I
ever should have made. And you're just, it's
very out of touch when you stumble into something
like that. But I got really sick and it was late
stage brain and spine cancer. And it happened
very, very fast. You know, my mom worked at UC
Davis as a peds oncology charge nurse. And, you
know, so as I go through that process with UC
Davis and Sutter Health Systems, I'd always wanted
to give back to them. And unfortunately, the
cancer came back and Stanford said I was to be
put on hospice. But, you know, I have a... an
oncologist that was just so steadfast and thick
headed um he said no no i'm gonna get blue shield
to pay for a bone marrow transplant and it worked
you know praise god and um yeah so you know and
then the market crashes but i'd always wanted
to give back so i started roy's umbrella and
that was a a blue collar angie's list if you
will for The two hospitals and all law enforcement
in the greater Northern California area. So a
lot of the, you know, Sacramento, San Francisco,
you know, Placer County, El Dorado County guys,
they would call us for a purchase or refi, whatever.
And it was just remarkable how stressed they
were. I'll never forget that sensation of what's
going through their mind on a daily basis, you
know, and how these departments, how these hospitals
didn't have a facilitator for the most semantical
things. Life insurance, credit repair, mortgage,
whatever, car insurance, you know, you'll just.
You'll become so overwhelmed with your job. Military,
my goodness, the PTSD after that is identical
to what I went through, you know, in certain
sorts. And so Roy's Umbrella was a very popular
mortgage company. You know, we worked with Rush
Limbaugh, you know, bless his heart. And so we
just, we became trusted. And so that was my way
of giving back. And so. I paid the salary for
an art therapist in peds oncology where my mom
worked. And to think that after this foot pursuit
where someone was killed, nobody wins. The police
department or sheriff's department, what could
we have done different? The family of the victim,
could we have raised our child better? There's
so many. abstract topics that are never covered
in the media, never covered by anyone who is
afraid of sharing an opinion back then. That's
exactly why I started with the flashlight because
somebody did it for me. My oncologist helped
me, right? And so it felt with the gear that
these guys had in some circumstances, it felt
that they were like just a standard customer
walking into a store to buy a gun light at full
retail. Well, they are. I mean, I mean, okay.
They get a law enforcement discount or a military
discount, but I mean, the technology hasn't moved
and all you can advertise is lumens and perhaps
battery life or maybe size or perhaps color temperature.
And that's really esoteric because most people
don't even understand color temperature. Then.
you know that's that what else is there i mean
you're the only one i've seen in the space has
actually innovated anything right in quite a
while ever i mean well except for except for
weapon mounted lights and okay magnetic charging
is pretty cool too i think magnetic charging
is very cool that's pretty neat but but other
than and and by the way yours does not have a
magnetic charger and i don't disparage it for
that because i'm sure that that takes up space
in the cavity to put the coil and everything
else in there. So that may not be very efficient.
What other technical challenges? I mean, you've
listed a bunch of them, but are there any just
maybe highlight ones that make a good story that
you'd like to say that you ran into? Again, not
having a background in lighting or engineering?
Well, again, I have to thank and appreciate so
many people in procurement. The folks in Texas
at Cyfair, Cypress Fairbanks, they've been wonderful.
But so have multiple agencies, you know, and
I think it came down to, I'm not picking on these
companies, but this was their feedback, not necessarily
mine. But the, okay, the Streamlight has a toggle
that is more intuitive for the human touch. The
Surefire, however, you can push it forward. You
can momentarily blink the light. And I think
that is very important. And the reason is because
San Luis Obispo SWAT team said, if you're pushing,
you're going to keep your gun on target within...
a third or half of an inch more than if you're
turning up or down and you're putting ancillary
pressure on what you're trying to aim at. That
literally split a hair down the middle, but it
made perfect sense. So what if we did both, right?
What if we had a light that pushed and toggled?
And so the Surefire at least you know, on my
research online and some of the locations where
it's really cold, it's rounded. So when you're
trying to activate it, it takes a lot more poundage
of pressure relating to turning it off, on, toggling
it up, down, forward. The little buttons, if
you will, they'll pop off. So if it gets really
hot, like Arizona, or if it gets really cold,
like if you're in the Dakotas or New York, upstate,
those little covers on the little metal toggle,
they'll pop off or they'll get stuck. So the
task was to create one that does both, and that
is more user -friendly. And so it was interesting
because... It's almost like you want to design
it for somebody with smaller hands, just because
it's a little easier if your thumb is long enough
to press the surefire. And I know I'm getting
into the minutiae with this a little bit, but
if you compare both of them, and a lot of lights
just have a toggle on it, like a teeter -totter.
People with smaller hands appreciate that more
so they're not reaching around their gun with
their index finger or reaching their thumb forward
with their supportive hand. So it was those types
of comments and feedback that have us. I can't
wait for you guys to see the production unit
because a lot of these are tension loaded or.
vertical spring, but this is a leaf spring. There's
only one coil. And so it's going to be resting
against that spring, a leaf spring. So when you
push on it, it'll throw 180 degrees. If you let
go and you toggle, it'll go 180 or 35 degrees.
That we're really proud of. That was very difficult
to do. Because you're doing, there's a couple
inner componentry that you have to take into
consideration. So if it's one button doing one
thing, that's fine. But you have to press all
four buttons to throw 180 on the momentary. But
then you have to have... two buttons when you're
toggling if you want it 35 or 180 right so you
have to go diagonal and touch two 180s or you
have to go diagonal the other way and touch two
35s right those buttons for the 180 degree and
the 35 degree are critical to that functionality
and sequence So that we're most proud of because
the rest of it you can kind of work through,
right? Like if you want to lose the USB -C charging
port, fine. Put a magnetic, you know, wireless
charger on it. You know, yes, it's a little more
cumbersome, I guess, and they don't charge as
fast these days. But the toggle and the triple
dome front lens, we're really proud of that.
You know, I like the magnetic chargers. I had
a Microsoft laptop that had a magnetic charger,
but it was not one where it required a coil,
like my iPhone here requires a coil to receive
the energy. It was just a magnet. to connect
it up, and they had little gold connectors and
would connect it up. And I like that aspect of
it. I could almost see something like that because
it takes no space to do that other than you're
going to have one of those powerful little magnets
called neobladium, or I'm probably mispronouncing
that. Yeah, you are, but that's okay. Yeah. magnets
on it and and then i'm you know i'm thinking
about okay so you want this whole form factor
to be able to fit into existing holsters so you
probably want to know what are the most common
existing holsters that take these you know streamlights
or whatever they are so that people don't have
to buy a new holster that's a good point that
that's a good point ken because although so for
the glock 17 it it's proprietary so that that
railing system is ever so slightly different
than some of the other guns. And so I think the
solution to that is, I call them K -rails, you
know, the railing system that, you know, slides
into place on the bottom of the gun, Picatinny
rails, if you will. But we can simply modify
the sharpness of the 45 degree angle. If you
look at an uppercase K rather than the lowercase
K, right? So some guns will accommodate different
measurements. Now we're getting into the tenths
and hundredths of millimeters. Yeah. But still,
it makes a big difference. So, for example, the
Glock compared to the Sig Sauer. The Sig Sauer
cross latch bar, I'll call it a shark tooth bar,
that is twice as wide as the Glock 17. If you
put mine on the Sig Sauer, it could potentially
rock forward and backward. Right. About 1 .5
millimeters. Well, if it's on a P320, there's
enough issues with tolerances, apparently. Anyway,
yes. Legal disclaimer, I don't really know this
for a fact. I'm only listening to other people,
but apparently there's a lot of tolerance issues
there anyway. Yeah. But, no, I understand. That's
why some of the other, I mean, Craig and I both
have various lights that we purchased over the
years. And, yeah, they have a bunch of little
components that come with it. If it's fitting
on a Glock, well, then you install this little
part here. If it's not on that, you put this
little part in it. And it's just that crossbar,
exactly, that you're talking about. But thank
you for, I hope you're keeping it, the ability
to remove and replace the light without tools.
You're keeping that, right? oh oh yeah yeah so
because i hate that i hate it when i have to
use a screwdriver to i mean it's so unnecessary
to me yeah i also think it's cumbersome and so
if it were simplified right so if you look straight
down at mine it's got three bolts on either rail
You're not taking springs out. You're not popping
things loose. You're literally using a 1 .5 millimeter
hex drive, and you're taking those rails off
and putting different rails on. But you do that
once. One time. And then the rest of it is the
little spring -loaded clip on either side that
you pull down to release it from the gun. That's
what I was talking about. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because that's so much better than having to
use a screwdriver to take. The entire assembly
off the rail. Yeah. Oh, no. OK, seriously, this
actually happened. So one of one of the one of
the folks, we were at a shooting range and he
twisted. He was tightening the gunlight and it
broke the head off and it was stuck on his gun.
And so. Oops. But to see that that is so rare.
Makes it hard to send in for a warranty then,
doesn't it? Oh, my goodness. But it's just, I
mean, in the most critical of moments, you know,
as you're about to join a team and you want to
swap out a battery, you can't take it off. And
then you twist it the wrong way by mistake. Just
whatever. Who knows? But I think we keep it real
basic. So with your thumb and your index finger,
you pull down, slide the thing off. Right. no
twisting and spring loaded to the left or right
where it kind of clips on and then you tighten
it. Nobody was a fan of that. They wanted to
be simple, basic, intuitive. I think the most
repetitive phrase I heard is your fine motor
skills go out the window when you're in a tactical
setting. I mean, none of these people are wearing...
earplugs, earmuffs. You're not at a shooting
range. Those gunshots are 10 times as loud. They're
pointing at you. The last thing you want to worry
about is manipulating a light, you know? So I
agree with that, Craig, for sure. Talking about,
you know, since your design is so unique, you
have a patent on this already, right? And how
do you plan to, I mean, The wolves will be at
the door on this because the idea is so good.
And I guess my concern is that other people are
going to make a little tweak to what you're doing
and then market it as an innovation that they
didn't come up with. Well, and yes, I think with
100 patents, that's still going to happen. But
I do think that within any industry, You have,
I'll call them DUI attorneys or car crash attorneys,
right? They will do whatever they can to make
money. Patent attorneys can do the same. And
they will file a design patent that they know,
you know, good and well, you could easily circumvent
that. And so you need to have utility patents,
right? So if you're... If you have any chance
at fighting someone off, especially a larger
company, you have to have multiple utility patents.
And in this case, we do. Good for you. Oh, man,
that was the hardest part. Because on a utility
patent, it's 19 pages long and there's not one
image. So you have to describe this with calculus
theorems. And you have to try to document without
imagery how a light from multiple sources can
be thrown in plurality. So a beam in plurality
is what we were granted. And that's incredibly
hard to do because the LEDs will either overheat
or they will... be so weak it's almost like the
little headbands you can put when you work on
your car yeah you're not controlling any of that
light right that those are just brighter than
the little red battery warning indicators so
the light frays up and down you might see 10
feet that's about it um so to house that to throw
a rectangular beam of sorts that patent That
was a turning point, incredibly expensive. But
once we realized, bless my stepfather's heart,
he was a calculus professor, but he helped write
a lot of it, you know, because it is a study
of motion and light and refraction and other
aspects that it, you know, compared to the Nike
swoosh, right? That's a very standalone. non
-duplicative scenario that they just were fortunate
with. But the typical design patents are worthless.
They really are. You can get around them so quickly.
But I do not see, and actually, one of my minority
business partners, so he's a Hall of Fame UFC
fighter, and he's been around a lot of product.
introduced introductions, endorsed a lot of products.
And so the first thing him and I talked about
was, Roy, I want to hire a competing patent attorney
to see if he can puncture this. And if he can't,
I'm in. And so we did. And that was very, very
helpful because you do get tunnel vision on things
that... When you're convinced and you believe
in the person that helped you, you're thinking
in a harmless way, how could this go wrong? I
mean, the patent office awarded this, right?
But you can still have fringe rights to certain
things like the V8 engine, if you will, or tires,
if you will. It's very, very hard to... to keep
the patents effective unless they're utility
patents. So tell us about, so when, when you
get the light out there in the real world, what
kind of warranty you're going to offer and how
is the light going to be sold? Well, we're going
to do a 12 month warranty. But I, it's going
to have to match whatever they have. So the law
enforcement, the agencies, it's going to, the
first, Bulk order would accommodate those agencies.
There's 19 of them. And so I'll get their feedback
as far as the warranty, but I'm wide open to
that. Now, to the retail market, that's different.
People are going to demand, you know, three,
five, 10 -year, sometimes lifetime warranties
on things. Well, not for the battery, they're
not. I mean, that's not realistic, is it? No.
Oh, for the battery, no. No, and so I think there's
going to have to be some give and take on that
with the consumer version. But, you know, as
far as selling it, there are some large wholesale
distributors that wanted to be involved. So I
think, though, Amazon, for annoying as it can
be, is a validation source. I agree. You know,
people will go to a website to buy something,
but the first thing they do, sometimes opening
up two browsers, they're going to look at the
Amazon listing and see the ratings for an arm's
length opinion of the product you're seeking.
Well, and to know the street price because the
MSRP and the street price could, you know, there's
a product that I want to test that I've been
having trouble getting a hold of the company.
and their MSRP and their street price differ
by more than 50%. Oh, yeah. I mean, that's an
extreme example. Yeah. I mean, golly, these poor
guys. But there's a flashlight that retails at
$375. And it's got military contracts. It's on
90 % for now. you know, law enforcement and military,
but that, you know, you might see them get as
low as 300, maybe 325. And, and I'm thinking,
well, if we come in less than that, if we come
in less than the top selling tactical light in
the world, and it's more effective. you don't
necessarily need a really low or a really high
price to sell it. You just need what's reasonable,
right? So if the wholesale distributor says,
well, they're going to retail at $325, and our
cost, we're not giving you more than $225 because
we have to make a profit, that's about a 30 %
margin. I don't know that we go more than 25%,
though, because then you start to delineate between
who's more important than the other. You know,
what if somebody doesn't have access to the wholesale
outlets that you might? And so when I saw that
and a couple of the agencies said they buy their
lights retail, that's unacceptable. I agree.
Well, if you have that big of an agency and that
big of a budget behind you, but remember what
show you're on, Roy. This is the frugal emphasizing
firearms podcast. And I mean, we're all about
value. Now, I think that your product, and if
you don't want to tell me, that's fine. I don't
need to know what you anticipate the MSRP to
be. But your product is differentiated by technology
and its utility is quite a bit different. So
I'm going to be willing to spend more to get
your product than. you know, some other light
that when you look down range at the $375 light
or the $37 light that I picked up off Amazon
and they throw the same beam. Yeah. And I'm not
a tier one guy and I'm not going to be using
it to be crawling around in the mud and yeah,
using the hammer and a nail. Right. That's not
our typical listener. No. You know, I want to
light this reliable that. does what I need it
to do and doesn't break the bank. And yours does
something that other lights don't do, but I'm
not spending 10 X to get a name brand because,
you know, some, some military units that have
ostensive unlimited budget. I worked for the
federal government. I understand how this works.
You have end of the money sweep up and you have
to get rid of that money. I know how this works.
Yeah. Yeah. So, well, but that's interesting.
You say that because as it ties into the patents,
you can get that knockoff. I mean, probably for
20 bucks now instead of the 375 and it's the
same light and, and they look identical and there
are us based. websites or you know the majority
of their population are u .s consumers that allow
that right so we have the patent on the beam
and plurality but more importantly the heat sink
right so how how would you do that how would
you and again with amazon the one thing that
they absolutely deliver on is if you're patented
and trademarked and you notice anyone at any
time copying or duplicating they'll pull that
listing the next day and so when you get into
the typical gun light they all sort of look the
same you know because i don't know that you can
have patents on anything other than slight differences
on the toggle or spring -loaded you know crossbar
i mean they they all have Exactly. A lot of similarities.
What did you hear when I met you at, actually
when I went to your booth at SHOT Show? What
kind of feedback did you get from, you know,
just the people attending there? Because you
talked about testing this with largely military.
And by the way, as a follow -up to that, sorry
to cut you off, but what military units, if any,
can you name that you're working with? But at
the same time, or at least what services? What
difference are you getting back from the civilian,
let's say, alpha and beta testers as opposed
to the LE and mil guys? Well, what I did, and
it was a unique setting at the SHOT Show because
I wasn't there to sell anything, so to speak.
We wanted as much final feedback on top of what
the agency specified. And so when people would
walk by, we would just say, listen, we are not
for sale. All we want is your opinion. And I
think that was extremely effective because the
people will let their guard down, right? They
know that they're not going to get jammed up
to buy something, but their opinion is valuable.
And it certainly was because the impetus of that
interaction was do you want to come up with your
gun and throw a 35 degree beam or 180 and why?
And so I would show them, you know, the normal
gun light. And then on the blue gun, the Glock
17, I put hours on there. And so resoundingly,
and it was interesting though, because they would
go 35 like they're used to, but then they, toggle
to 180 and they said oh and you could just see
it you could see that um how do you say transcension
into oh my goodness this is easier right like
if i can see the whole room that'll take me about
three to five tenths of a second as opposed to
spanning or painting the walls or cutting you
know slicing the pizza And you said you timed
that, right? You actually have empirical data
that talks about how long it takes to, quote,
sweep a room, at least with the light, as opposed
to with your product. Oh, yeah. And I'm being
very generous with the single light on -off,
on -off, on -off. Because usually it's not equally
incremental, right? So you don't go... Three
tenths of a second, three tenths of a second,
three tenths of a second. You'll probably go
a blink to where you think nothing is there.
But if you do discover something, then you won't
even have cleared the other area. Right. So there
could be somebody on either side of the room
and you you would had to have made a decision
to turn your light off because it's somebody
hiding in a corner and. There's a person on the
other side of the room that has a gun. And so
that process can take up to three or four seconds
per room, as opposed to coming in the room, lighting
it up once. If it's not enough, fine, but you're
not in a spot where you're moving your head,
right? Your head always stays parallel with your
gun. So if you move your head, whatever's to
your right or left, is your vulnerability spot.
So I would rather, and a lot of people said the
same thing as they would enter a room, they would
rather blink or momentarily activate the light
at 180 degrees as many times until they feel
comfortable. But on average, it's once, maybe
twice, right? Like if you walk into a living
room, turn it on, your eyes will go from your
left to your right in about three tenths of a
second. Like this. That's it. Well, nobody could
see what you were doing. Well, exactly. You guys
get the idea. See the example on our, on our,
but, but yeah, if you, if you imagine standing
at a doorway and just starting from your nine
to your noon to your three with your eyes as
fast as you can scroll them, um, that. That's
a fraction of the time that it would take to
move your entire head to your nine, to your noon,
and to your three. Because that's how a lot of
them are trained. You just said it. You said
trained. A lot of users out there are not going
to train in low light. Just they're not. They'll
train at a square range during the day. or in
indoor range, and they'll put a light on their
gun and hope that when the rainy day comes that
the light works and they will not train with
it. Yeah. So that's why, you know, listeners,
this is why you want this product. Oh, my goodness.
It just, and play, you know, it's funny. John
in Stockton, he always calls it cops and robbers,
you know, because I have. i have been to that
guy's house him and his wife so many times and
we literally play cops and robbers like go hide
i'm gonna find you um and i i can't understate
that um or overstate it it just it has to happen
right if you're gonna buy a gun might you need
to goof off with it you know once or twice a
month You have to clear every area. You need
to drop to the ground, do a somersault, stand
up. You know what I mean? You have to have fun
with it. Okay, then tell us about your durability
testing on the light then. I mean, the physical
durability part. I mean, you could mention battery
life, but I think you've already covered battery
life because it's a variable according to how
much energy you put into the unit at a given,
you know, the flux, if you will, of the energy.
Yeah, and you've talked about overheating, but
what about physically? Is the thing as durable
as your competition? It certainly is, probably
more, because when you look at a flashlight,
it's flat -faced. So if your gun is pointed to
the ground and you're walking up to a situation
where you haven't raised it yet and it slips
out of your hand, God knows why you hear... a
screeching car smashing into the back of your
parole patrol car whatever the case you drop
the gun it hits dead center because you know
the the gun's the heaviest part so it's going
to go straight down and it's going to hit the
lens dead on there won't be any um deflection
properties of that impact as opposed to instead
of a flat surface you have a rounded frontal
surface It's going to be extremely hard to have
that gun drop, maintain that vertical descent.
It's probably going to list a little bit left
or right. But if it's rounded, it's more likely
the grip of the gun would probably hit first.
But as far as the durability, I mean, we dropped
it off a roof. And it just bounced and worked.
And that was with the toggle you mentioned. And
not to mention just last week, I... I'm like
holding my breath, but they said the testing's
going fine in Cyfair and they've dropped it.
They, you know, they tossed it to someone else
and they intentionally drop it as though you're
trying to toss it over here, put this on your
gun, go whatever. So they were going through
every little semantical way that it could be
dropped, bumped into. But it's interesting you
say that because. I was always curious why the
barrel of the gun was shorter than the extension
of the light. And as I find out, a lot of the
weapons will not fire in close quarter combat
when you have to hold your gun to somebody's
rib cage, say. That's right. Takes it out of
battery. Absolutely true. Yeah. If you press
the slide, it will take the weapon out of battery.
Absolutely true. Yeah, that that again, my goodness,
home loans would never have taught you that.
So but it's those little things, you know, it's
those little nuances that I just kept. Neurotically,
I kept a list of every little comment I could,
you know, but but back to the shot show, I think
a lot of the people there were. how do you say,
either retired or active military, retired or
active law enforcement, but they'll always seem
to have a friend or a wife or a husband that
isn't. And you could see them talking, you know,
as they're kind of goofing off with the light.
And it was very helpful to hear those conversations
about, oh my God, this really makes up for...
not being in law enforcement or things like that.
Little subtle nuances that you would think are
innocuous, but not at all. Like if your husband's
a police officer or your wife's a sheriff, that
doesn't make you as adequate with a firearm as
he or her. So you better have something that
makes up for that as best as you can. And so
that was interesting is, you know, you see people
like something and then they start to open up
and share some personality traits about how it
could help them individually. That was cool.
So now this is your full -time pursuit? Yeah.
I had started with the first light, the big handheld.
I call it the walk the dog light or the Zoom
180 instead of the C180. But the iterations of
that utility patent are endless. Maybe this time
next year we'll be discussing the long gun light.
Oh, how about micro pistol light? You thinking
that way, too? Yes. I noticed there was one.
There is one similarity up until recently, but
some of the manufacturers are going to a custom
square rectangular battery. And if I can do that,
as long as it's okay to be a little wider, like
the, I mean, Surefire knows what they're doing,
but it's a little wider. So is the Streamlight.
A lot of lights have... two cr123 batteries width
yeah side by side yeah so if we go square single
it's almost like an 18 350 but you'd call it
like an 18 250 so 25 millimeters long um but
like a cube a rectangular cube so it would sit
there would be no wiggle room but It would do
the exact same thing. It would be just as bright,
just the battery wouldn't last as long, right?
Just when you shorten the light, you shorten
the battery, it dies fast. I can live with that.
I mean, that would be, I think, fantastic for,
you know, opening the aperture to... That was
almost an optical term. Open the aperture to
other markets out there. What I envision is,
I know you're trying to stay within the existing
holster technology that's popular out there,
but I see an opportunity for you to basically...
Have a magnetic charger that would just click
onto it as you insert the gun in the holster.
The magnetic charger just clicks onto it. And
not one of the ones that uses the induction method
of charging. No, no, no. Just the magnetic one
just clicks on there. And then the holster itself
carries. a battery pack that's molded into the
holster, which has, you know, some, you know,
32 600s or whatever, you know, two or three of
those, which would then recharge the light as
soon as the weapon is reholstered. And then the
person will be responsible for like once a week,
you know, just to make sure they go home and
charge the battery pack on the holster as part
of their duty belt. But now you're into holsters,
lights, you know, the design. And I'm sure you
still have a green laser in there somewhere.
And a red dot sight and a compass. Don't forget
the cell phone. Yeah. Well, I will say, though.
it gets a lot easier. It gets geometrically easier,
the larger it gets. So if we, if we go from a
pistol mounted light to a long gun light, now
you're, you're a rectangular cube battery that,
you know, is 80 millimeters long. And that thing
would light up a football field with our technology.
And so you run into problems when you're trying
to make things smaller and smaller and smaller.
But if it's just a matter of having the magnetic
charge on both sides of the holster and the gunlight,
it's interesting you say that. There was a location
in San Joaquin County, Central California. Here
we go again. But it would be a lot easier. If
you have your duty belt, you take your gun off
in the holster, whatever. But you never take
the gun out. You never take the light off. You
plug into the holster instead. And I thought
that was a really clever idea. And you've just
reiterated that. So I think that's an easy, easy
fix because. At that point, you're just putting
a really thick nickel, the radius and size of
a nickel, maybe twice as thick, but you put that
on the rear back of the light, and that touches
or connects with the holster, and you're in business.
Arguably, it's safer, too, because you're not
unholstering the weapon in order to provide it
power. I mean, that's a reach, because we're
talking now about... injection molds, which are
really expensive or things like that, that are
maybe going to take a while to come to fruition.
But I mean, in the process of bringing this to
market, I'm assuming that the product is, at
least most of it is offshore parts. True statement.
And if so, what are the effects of the recent
tariffs? Is it affecting you really at all materially?
I know everything about it. They're going to
help bring manufacturers back here. That's a
little more long -term, but for now. Well, it's
a long game. You're not just going to. Yeah.
The effects. It's like seasons, right? I mean,
you know, the first day of winter is the shortest
day of the year. You'd think that'd be the middle
of winter, but it's not. There's a delay effect
in the environment. The environment here is no
different. It's going to take a while to see
the benefits. Well, I think what was interesting
is the data is starting to come in. And you saw
all of these delays and tariff issues because
in response to Trump and his team, manufacturers
from overseas were flooding the market at the
highest price possible, which is the biggest
tell and mistake they could have made. If you
get too much inventory, you're going to essentially
lower the interest rate because the product is
in such quantity that the price will organically
go down. If they didn't send anything, they said,
you know what? We're not going to send Roy any
of his LEDs. South Korea, we're not sending Roy
any of our batteries that go through China and
then to here. Then yeah, that would have been...
a standoff but instead they tried to flood the
market to make as much money as they could before
the tariffs were instituted um and then that
was a critical mistake on their part so the quick
answer is that the tariffs didn't affect us at
all but but then again we're talking about shoestring
right and led they're a penny a piece yeah they're
very inexpensive low margin item Oh, my goodness.
And the batteries, they're made everywhere. They're
made in South Korea, India, you name it, Vietnam.
But the majority of them wind up in Shenzhen,
China. They'll wrap them, put the little blue
safety restrictor on them, and then ship a container,
you know, a couple tons of them to whomever.
They'll put their logo on them and say made in
the USA. Because it's fascinating if you try
to obtain commercial liability insurance on a
product and you turn one screw, and I mean one,
and you have somebody that could get injured,
you're the manufacturer, hands down, hard stop.
And so for a lot of people to say made in the
USA. I'm not doubting them, but I'm just a little
reluctant. To what extent are they made in the
USA, though? Right. And so the whole point of
the flashlight is to bolster law enforcement
in the USA, military for the USA. And so I do
see a day very soon, although extremely expensive.
over $200 ,000 to print those little circuit
boards with the LEDs. They're incredibly expensive,
but that's one time and you're done. And then
you can, you can start to, you know, create volume,
you know, printing five or 6 ,000 units a month,
you know? And so, but I, I think. I don't want
to get too far off topic with this, but I think
China's old guard is inhibiting and has a damaging
effect on a lot of good people that are there.
Same thing in India. Same thing in Vietnam. Like
some of the old school kind of iron fist, the
military has to be involved in anything important.
I think that's a dying effort. I think there's
a lot of things that are getting more and more
global than, you know, physically centric. So
I'm looking forward to, you know, seeing your
product. I don't know if you've heard about what
Contra Costa County here is doing here in California.
They recently they have banned. You got to love
this. This is another, you know, banning firearms.
They have banned. Weapons mounted flashlights,
lasers, and red dot optics on any firearm that's
carried on your CCW. So they've now made it illegal
in just one county, Contra Costa County. And
we have 58 counties in the state of California,
so one of them. And California is like a cancer.
When we have a stupid idea, it grows. And I wouldn't
expect I wouldn't doubt that that other stupid
counties are going to start adopting this. Oh,
yeah. You can't have a you can't have a flashlight.
Why would you want to be able to identify your
target before you take your shot? I mean, come
on, because criminals all use red dots. Right.
That's what they train with. Yeah, exactly. And
I think it's fascinating where I live in New
York. The entire state is bright red. Right.
But then you go. buffalo rochester albany new
york city it's like blue atom bombs went off
right there you know and so it's so interesting
and so is california i mean it if you look at
the the constituency mapping um but but like
you say they are so monkey see monkey do and
a lot of it has to do with insurance right so
the insurer says oh good this is a good way we're
going to make money because You know, if civilians,
you know, can't carry them, they're less likely
to use them and maybe they won't shoot somebody
and they get sued, you know, and then the homeowner's
policy. Right. So the most abstract logistical
justifications take place can within that realm.
Right. Why on earth? Like you say, the bad guys,
they're going to throw a Molotov cocktail at
you. They're going to throw a knife at you. They'll
kill you if they want to, right? And so to say
that a gun that has a light or a laser is going
to make any difference, it's going to hurt the
citizen. It's going to promote the criminal activity,
which I hope Mamdani wins the mayoral race in
New York City so they can see exactly what they
elected. Right. And what they elected was anger.
And so the same thing in California, like a good
friend of mine, Larry Elder, ran against Gavin
Newsom. And and man, him and I did so many commercials
together. And it was sickening to see how much
a campaign will use. items like gender or race
or nationality. But then if there's an opponent
who happens to be within one of those categories
who is not of the same political bias, they will
obliterate them. And so, you know, for the time
when he was walking through his old neighborhood,
this guy grew up in East LA, right? Gavin grew
up with a spoon in his mouth from Nancy and John
Pelosi or Paul Pelosi. Right. So so but then
they throw an egg at him. A white guy throws
an egg at a black person in one of the worst
neighborhoods. And that is not that would have
been if I'm the governor of California, my focal
effort for the next year. Like that would be
in every news cycle that this has got to stop.
But they endorsed it. Ken, they. they said see
that's what the public thinks you know that's
why we're successful as a state and it's uh that
doesn't surprise me contra costa county come
on you know so in closing out uh roy you got
any um you know closers that are maybe entertaining
stories or any little snippet you haven't covered
and and by the way i would invite you also if
you have a website or you're going to be making
personal appearances at any of the trade shows
other than shot you know coming up you have a
youtube channel or anything you want to promote
you know the floor is yours uh as we finish out
well um the the the ndas have allowed me now
to come onto your show and, you know, hopefully,
you know, we can educate more people. We're going
to launch the website in a technical format.
So it appears as any retailer online that would
be at lights for lives. So lights, the number
four lives .com. So lights for lives .com. But
yeah, I, you'll, you'll see this. effort across
all social media channels. I look forward to
the SHOT Show, as a matter of fact, because there
is a direct correlation between the UFC and law
enforcement, military. It is. They walk side
by side. And so we're going to have a couple
celebrities with us. Uriah Faber, he's a Hall
of Famer. There's a couple active fighters. One
of them fights this weekend. So root for Josh
Emmett. But yeah, we'll be a media. We'll have
a social media presence very soon. I think the
videos that we've come up with, that's been the
most. How would you say validating experience
I've had? Because we go into Uriah Faber's gym,
right? And there's a couple of folks from law
enforcement with me. And so it's a humongous
gym. So he has, and it's like 10 o 'clock at
night, all the power's out. And so these guys
are scary looking, right? They beat people up
for a living, right? And so they're hiding in
different spots of the gym. You know, as you
walk into a gym, lots of times the left and right
walls as you walk in are long, like 50 feet long,
100 feet long, because you're walking into basically
a warehouse. And so Josh Emmett, who is Joe Rogan's
one of his favorite fighters, is literally standing
about 75 feet to the right in a corner. If you
turn the lights on, he would be in plain sight,
but he was just standing with his arms kind of
like or like hands in his pockets trying to be
as still as he could. And so we walk in and the
officer has the I'll call it the single beam
light. Right. And so, you know, she's spanning
and tells, you know, three or four people, get
your hands up, get your hands up, get down on
the ground. OK. doesn't notice josh the entire
time so this is like 60 seconds of him staring
at us i know and so so we go back outside put
the other lights on the guns go back in and she
lists around the corner and the the right side
so the three o 'clock led it lights him up and
here's this guy just looking right at her and
it was she's like oh i'm dead and i'm gonna recommend
this to the firearms committee It happened. Do
I get to post the link to that in the show notes?
Oh, my goodness. I actually have the video. I
want something our listeners can take a look
at. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Let me get
permission on that so I don't open up that can
of worms. But, oh, yeah, it was one of the oddest.
locations to do it too because there's so many
things in a gym that like chrome like reflective
and so so it's weird like all the mirrors and
you know you can you can hide pretty well in
those things behind the treadmills and stuff
but anyway i got a kick out of that but well
thank you roy for coming on the show my pleasure
it's been it actually this has been i haven't
checked yet I think it's the longest show we've
ever recorded, but it doesn't feel that way because
the content is so engaging and so good. And,
Ken, what else you got for Roy? I really appreciate
it coming on. I really appreciate it having an
opportunity to look at this really groundbreaking
product, and it's something that I definitely
want to add to my carry as soon as I can, as
soon as it becomes available. Yeah, exactly.
Bless your hearts. Just one last comment that
it's near and dear to my heart, but half of what
I make, you know, of course, after expenses,
but there's five cancer centers that are the
reason I'm here. And I am not impressed by money
at all. And so anything I can do to help. These
boys and girls. I mean, I'm surrounded by UFC
fighters, but they all say the same thing, especially
some of those that I've taken through the cancer
ward where I've done murals and stuff like that.
And that's the true fight. It's a strung out
mental, physical battle that. I wouldn't want
my worst enemy to go through. So that half of
what I'm making is going to go to some of those
big locations like Memorial Sloan and UCD and
et cetera. Can you send us some, because we're
all about promoting here, right? And can you
send us maybe the links of a couple of places
you'd like listeners, if they're so inclined,
no obligation, but if they're inclined, that
we could post for you? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah,
absolutely. For example, like a personal website
or a personal email address. Well, no, I was
referring to that too. If you want inquiries
about perhaps people who may want to join your
team or invest along with you or something like
that. But I was referring more to what cancer
centers you recommend people donate to. Oh, yeah,
absolutely. Yeah, Memorial Sloan Kettering in
New York, the Mayo Clinic, University of San
Francisco, University of Davis, and then Stanford.
Those were the five. that collaborated and they
took risks. Usually when you're stage four, you'll
have high dose chemo and radiation. And if it
comes back, usually, if it comes back quickly,
there's not a whole lot you can do. You're usually
put on hospice. And so a lot of folks at a couple
of these health systems said, nope, he's young
enough. We can try it because the bone marrow
transplant sounds like a simple procedure where
it's a physical operation. When in fact they
bring you down, they bring your white counts
down to zero. And to do that, it's like you're
drinking gasoline for a month. And so, and then
when they have your white counts as low as humanly
possible before you pass away, that's when they
re -infuse the bone marrow. Painful. Oh, well,
yeah, the bone marrow aspirate. Oh, my goodness.
Yeah. When they have to take those samples, that's
very, very real. That's corkscrew real. But yeah,
those five locations are so integral to my being
and going forward. All right. Great show. Great
show. Thanks very much, Roy. Appreciate you having
me on, sir. Okay. Thank you both. Thank you.
Take care. Well, today we had Rory come on and
talk to us about a new product that he's going
to be bringing to the market here shortly. We
had the opportunity to take a look at a pre -production
or near -production weapons -mounted light for
your, for example, any of your Glocks or any
railed handgun that you might have. Instead of
just shooting a 30 or 45 -degree beam out in
front of you, shoots a 180 -degree beam left
to right. Phenomenal opportunity to really give
you situational awareness. So very much enjoyed
it. Very much looking forward to seeing what
the final product will be. We'll definitely be
ordering one of them. Greg, your take on it.
And while it was developed from the inspiration
of a law enforcement engagement that went the
wrong way. The applicability of this product
reaches definitely into the civilian sector.
A person who's trying to, I mean, maybe even
more so than law enforcement, because if law
enforcement goes in on a stack and they got a
team of five guys, two, maybe five guys, something
like that, there's going to be multiple lights
in the space. For a homeowner, whether or not
it's a good idea to... quote -unquote clear your
house to begin with is tactically questionable
but let's say you're in that situation the ability
to solo light up a space that without turning
on all the lights be able to see the pets children
or the perpetrator that matters and that's going
to be worth the cost of entry on this product
which we don't even know yet right we don't know
yet i'm just Just looking at the technology,
it is a real game changer. It is. It is. So long
show, but absolutely great content. Just great
content. So next time we're looking to do, I've
got a couple of the companies that reached out
to. One that has been very difficult to get a
hold of finally reached back to me today and
at least acknowledged our presence, which is
nice. So we'll see about getting them on. Ken
and I have also reviewed some products. that
we are going to do just a solo, you know, our
own opinion product review show. And, you know,
Ken, something we haven't talked about in a long
time is our product value ratings. So we have
to kind of resurrect that. We talked about that
early on. And even though we don't know the price
of Roy's Light yet, I think it's going to have
a very high product value rating because it's
just so damn unique. But there's a few other
things, like we were just using at the range
the other day, Clear Ballistics Gel. And we could
talk about that. We'll talk about that, too,
because there's alternatives that are homegrown.
And I think you have a couple ideas on things
you want to talk about, too. So they'll come
up a few weeks out from now. But in the meantime,
please like. Please share. Please leave a comment.
Comments are very helpful in the algorithms,
the way they work. If you are interested in being
on the show or you have questions or comments,
both critical or positive, it is frugalfirearmspodcast
at gmail .com. Of course, the website is frugalfirearmspodcast
.com. And again, you know, tell your friends
because a word of mouth is working and looking
at the distribution map of the podcast, it keeps
showing up in different parts of the world where
it didn't before. So it's definitely getting
out there. So thank you listeners and good night.
Good night, everyone. Oh my goodness. Like they're
paying a hundred grand for a week. Yes, they
are. And, and you know what, if you want to get
a keg of beer and just in the afternoon or something,
that'll get people to come by. That's going to
cost you hundreds. That keg of beer will cost
you hundreds of dollars. Yep. Right. So my God,
depending, depending on the beer, no Keystone
light, no Keystone. I hope not. Ken doesn't drink,
but I do. So I will drink Ken's beer. Yeah, if
you pour me one, I'll hand it to you. I tell
you what, last year they had a place. I usually
look for it in about the 2 .30 and later 3 o
'clock range is when they'll start coming out.
Some guy last year on the first floor had it
out at 12 .30, and I'm like, oh, God damn it.
Free beer. Come on. Now I'm obligated to drink
this. Yeah. Damn it. I mean, you got to pitch
in.