WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.339 When we came out with our first 1 to 10 FFP scope, 00:00:03.580 --> 00:00:08.080 probably about two years ago, it was the lowest 00:00:08.080 --> 00:00:11.800 price 1 to 10 FFP scope on the market by like 00:00:11.800 --> 00:00:14.419 an order of magnitude. I think the next cheapest 00:00:14.419 --> 00:00:18.440 one on the market was a SIG scope that cost $700, 00:00:18.660 --> 00:00:47.490 also made in China, that was $700. Wow. Welcome 00:00:47.490 --> 00:00:50.450 to Episode 19 of the Frugal Firearms Podcast, 00:00:50.729 --> 00:00:53.649 the podcast that is here to serve your needs. 00:00:53.789 --> 00:00:56.509 And by serve your needs, I mean keep money in 00:00:56.509 --> 00:00:59.070 your pocket, allow you to enjoy the shooting 00:00:59.070 --> 00:01:02.270 sports at a minimal cost. And by that, we don't 00:01:02.270 --> 00:01:05.489 mean cheap. We mean value. We're here to expose 00:01:05.489 --> 00:01:07.510 you to those products that maybe you've never 00:01:07.510 --> 00:01:09.769 seen. Maybe you don't get to trade shows. You 00:01:09.769 --> 00:01:11.750 don't get to range days. You don't get to see 00:01:11.750 --> 00:01:14.280 these things on your friend's rifles. Maybe you 00:01:14.280 --> 00:01:16.719 listen to a lot of other podcasts that talk about 00:01:16.719 --> 00:01:19.719 all the Gucci stuff that you'd love to own someday. 00:01:19.819 --> 00:01:21.859 But, you know, hey, you've got bills. You've 00:01:21.859 --> 00:01:24.799 got to pay rent or mortgage. You've got to put 00:01:24.799 --> 00:01:27.040 the kids through school. You've got car payments. 00:01:27.180 --> 00:01:28.980 You know, maybe you live in California and you've 00:01:28.980 --> 00:01:31.959 got ridiculous taxes and you have ridiculously 00:01:31.959 --> 00:01:36.400 high gas prices. So in that vein, we're going 00:01:36.400 --> 00:01:39.640 to bring on one of our favorite companies, Monstrum. 00:01:39.980 --> 00:01:41.799 which I've promised you now for a couple shows. 00:01:42.299 --> 00:01:44.319 I didn't tell you what company it was, but I 00:01:44.319 --> 00:01:45.980 told you we were going to do an optics show, 00:01:46.079 --> 00:01:49.040 and that is this show. So we have with us Gerald 00:01:49.040 --> 00:01:52.299 Kim from Monstrum. Gerald, welcome to Frugal 00:01:52.299 --> 00:01:54.480 Firearms Podcast, and the floor is yours, sir. 00:01:54.560 --> 00:01:57.040 But give us a little short background on yourself, 00:01:57.219 --> 00:02:00.099 how you became involved in Monstrum, and what 00:02:00.099 --> 00:02:01.780 makes you guys different. All right, thank you, 00:02:01.799 --> 00:02:04.599 Craig, and thank you, Ken, for hosting me. I 00:02:04.599 --> 00:02:07.859 think there's a good alignment between the... 00:02:08.590 --> 00:02:11.289 your podcast and what we try to do at Monstrum. 00:02:11.409 --> 00:02:14.469 So to give you a little bit of color as to how 00:02:14.469 --> 00:02:18.349 Monstrum was started. I mean, we started in 2009. 00:02:18.610 --> 00:02:23.849 At the time I was living in China and my partner 00:02:23.849 --> 00:02:29.469 and I had always been somewhat business minded 00:02:29.469 --> 00:02:32.009 and we wanted to start a consumer products business. 00:02:32.800 --> 00:02:36.740 We went to the Canton Fair together. The Canton 00:02:36.740 --> 00:02:40.300 Fair is kind of a trade show for manufacturers 00:02:40.300 --> 00:02:45.319 in China to present their products to buyers 00:02:45.319 --> 00:02:48.840 from other countries. So we went there to research 00:02:48.840 --> 00:02:52.240 a number of product lines with the intent on 00:02:52.240 --> 00:02:55.180 starting a business. We investigated a few different 00:02:55.180 --> 00:02:57.960 product lines and we eventually settled on Rifle 00:02:57.960 --> 00:03:02.879 Scopes as our niche. To be clear, we were not 00:03:02.879 --> 00:03:06.180 gun experts or optics experts at the time. It 00:03:06.180 --> 00:03:09.500 was more of a market research -driven decision. 00:03:10.000 --> 00:03:13.800 We both kind of thought guns were cool. We saw 00:03:13.800 --> 00:03:15.860 we could make a little bit of money reselling 00:03:15.860 --> 00:03:19.379 them, and that's how we started. We bought $30 00:03:19.379 --> 00:03:22.520 ,000 worth of rifle scopes, brought them back, 00:03:22.699 --> 00:03:26.879 and we sold them mostly at gun shows and through 00:03:26.879 --> 00:03:30.300 eBay. We didn't really know what we were doing. 00:03:30.360 --> 00:03:33.000 We just kind of picked it up along the way. It 00:03:33.000 --> 00:03:34.919 took us a few years to really hit our stride. 00:03:35.180 --> 00:03:39.599 It was in 2012 when we first started selling 00:03:39.599 --> 00:03:42.199 on Amazon, and that was kind of when we really 00:03:42.199 --> 00:03:44.900 kind of picked up steam, and we haven't really 00:03:44.900 --> 00:03:47.340 looked back since. So you said that you came 00:03:47.340 --> 00:03:50.759 into the field without a lot of experience in 00:03:50.759 --> 00:03:52.659 the area. Do you have a background in optics, 00:03:52.740 --> 00:03:55.719 or was it just you learned it along the way by... 00:03:55.960 --> 00:03:57.860 looking at what other people did and then found 00:03:57.860 --> 00:04:00.419 better ways to do it? Yeah. Like I said, we had 00:04:00.419 --> 00:04:02.780 no background in Optic, any of that. I mean, 00:04:02.800 --> 00:04:06.860 we just bought some stuff and tried to resell 00:04:06.860 --> 00:04:09.419 it. I mean, we're a lot different today as a 00:04:09.419 --> 00:04:12.960 company than we were back then. I would say at 00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:15.620 that time, we were buying a lot of stuff in China 00:04:15.620 --> 00:04:18.660 and basically slapping our name on it and reselling 00:04:18.660 --> 00:04:21.689 it. You know, it's like over the past 15 years, 00:04:21.730 --> 00:04:23.670 we've learned a thing or two about manufacturing 00:04:23.670 --> 00:04:26.949 and about how optics work. And I mean, we have 00:04:26.949 --> 00:04:30.110 a full -time optics engineer on our staff, you 00:04:30.110 --> 00:04:32.970 know, as well as our own industrial designers 00:04:32.970 --> 00:04:36.410 on staff that build our own product line from 00:04:36.410 --> 00:04:39.910 scratch. Everything we bring to market today 00:04:39.910 --> 00:04:44.209 is originally designed and offers features and 00:04:44.209 --> 00:04:47.009 benefits that other people don't. But yeah, back 00:04:47.009 --> 00:04:49.970 then, like I said, it was more of a market research 00:04:49.970 --> 00:04:52.589 driven decision. We didn't really know what we 00:04:52.589 --> 00:04:55.790 were doing, but I mean, you got to start somewhere. 00:04:56.310 --> 00:05:00.730 I think a lot of people don't know that. There's 00:05:00.730 --> 00:05:03.269 a video out there on YouTube, and I don't remember 00:05:03.269 --> 00:05:05.350 who posted it, but it is an excellent video. 00:05:05.490 --> 00:05:08.490 And it talks about how a lot of the scopes that 00:05:08.490 --> 00:05:11.649 are available on the retail market, particularly 00:05:11.649 --> 00:05:14.670 the ones with overseas manufacturing, are really 00:05:14.670 --> 00:05:17.329 the same scope repackaged in a different tube 00:05:17.329 --> 00:05:19.649 in a different. form factor with a different 00:05:19.649 --> 00:05:21.709 reticle or something like that but optically 00:05:21.709 --> 00:05:24.009 they're the same thing and they're probably being 00:05:24.009 --> 00:05:27.790 oem'd by just one or two companies and if you're 00:05:27.790 --> 00:05:30.670 clean sheeting your designs i mean you know good 00:05:30.670 --> 00:05:33.689 on you for that is that really a thing in optics 00:05:33.689 --> 00:05:37.149 that a lot of oems aren't really the oem and 00:05:37.149 --> 00:05:40.069 they're simply buying someone else's design and 00:05:40.069 --> 00:05:41.829 then putting their own graphics on it and things 00:05:41.829 --> 00:05:45.730 like that it certainly is that way uh to a certain 00:05:45.730 --> 00:05:49.459 extent um i think it was more common say 10, 00:05:49.540 --> 00:05:54.779 15 years ago when e -commerce and direct -to 00:05:54.779 --> 00:05:56.800 -consumer, the direct -to -consumer model was 00:05:56.800 --> 00:06:01.720 a lot less competitive. I mean, you could buy 00:06:01.720 --> 00:06:04.319 something from the Canton Fair, turn around and 00:06:04.319 --> 00:06:08.160 resell it in the US for a profit. It was pretty 00:06:08.160 --> 00:06:11.889 straightforward to do. I think now it's... become 00:06:11.889 --> 00:06:15.750 much more competitive. Now you have just hundreds 00:06:15.750 --> 00:06:19.509 of players in the market where that really wouldn't 00:06:19.509 --> 00:06:22.250 cut it today. When we come out with a product 00:06:22.250 --> 00:06:27.129 today, we want to make sure that the product 00:06:27.129 --> 00:06:30.430 either A, offers some type of functionality that 00:06:30.430 --> 00:06:34.569 someone else does not offer, or B, we can sell 00:06:34.569 --> 00:06:36.730 at a significantly lower price than everyone 00:06:36.730 --> 00:06:39.329 else on the market. A lot of times a customer 00:06:39.329 --> 00:06:41.370 will come to us and say, well, why can't you 00:06:41.370 --> 00:06:44.589 produce this product? Vortex makes this product 00:06:44.589 --> 00:06:47.529 or Primary Arms makes this product. Why can't 00:06:47.529 --> 00:06:50.490 you come out with something like that? I think 00:06:50.490 --> 00:06:53.410 my response to them will be, well, we don't want 00:06:53.410 --> 00:06:55.990 to come out with that product because Vortex 00:06:55.990 --> 00:06:59.829 already sells that product or so -and -so already 00:06:59.829 --> 00:07:02.889 sells that product. And if we're going to come 00:07:02.889 --> 00:07:04.449 out with the same product at the same price, 00:07:04.610 --> 00:07:06.589 what's the point? I mean, you could just buy 00:07:06.589 --> 00:07:08.779 it from Vortex. When we come out with something 00:07:08.779 --> 00:07:12.560 today, we really want to offer something, some 00:07:12.560 --> 00:07:15.540 form of added value to the customer, whether 00:07:15.540 --> 00:07:21.240 it's price -wise or feature -wise, even if it's 00:07:21.240 --> 00:07:23.180 just like stylistic elements, like making something 00:07:23.180 --> 00:07:25.339 look cooler. Yeah, Craig and I have been involved 00:07:25.339 --> 00:07:30.500 with firearms for more than 40 years. And I remember 00:07:30.500 --> 00:07:33.600 back... you know in the early days when you know 00:07:33.600 --> 00:07:35.939 we were inheriting firearms from our you know 00:07:35.939 --> 00:07:39.420 our dads or our uncles or whatever it might be 00:07:39.420 --> 00:07:42.360 a lot of the scopes that i have on some of my 00:07:42.360 --> 00:07:46.639 older stuff they were made in the 50s 1950s 1960s 00:07:46.639 --> 00:07:48.980 type of deal they were all you know fixed power 00:07:48.980 --> 00:07:53.500 fine scope probably for their time but uh one 00:07:53.500 --> 00:07:55.600 of the things i noted at starting around like 00:07:55.600 --> 00:08:00.680 1989 or so when the when the wall fell in East 00:08:00.680 --> 00:08:03.879 Germany and you had Germany begin to, then all 00:08:03.879 --> 00:08:06.500 of a sudden we saw a whole bunch of these East 00:08:06.500 --> 00:08:09.740 German optics companies start selling in the 00:08:09.740 --> 00:08:13.579 West and also these Russian optics things that 00:08:13.579 --> 00:08:16.480 started coming into the market in the late 1980s, 00:08:16.500 --> 00:08:19.860 early 1990s. And it's like, wow, this is some 00:08:19.860 --> 00:08:22.259 pretty decent stuff compared to the stuff that 00:08:22.259 --> 00:08:25.420 I've been looking at, these 50s and 60s optics. 00:08:26.379 --> 00:08:31.100 And it's only gotten better over time. As Craig 00:08:31.100 --> 00:08:33.720 had mentioned, I had an opportunity to look through, 00:08:33.799 --> 00:08:36.799 you know, I guess three or four of your scopes. 00:08:36.799 --> 00:08:40.460 And I was just like. super impressed by the quality, 00:08:40.639 --> 00:08:44.480 first focal plane, second focal plane, and just 00:08:44.480 --> 00:08:47.000 the whole quality of the whole thing, the beast. 00:08:47.320 --> 00:08:50.200 I mean, the thing is rock solid. I was just really 00:08:50.200 --> 00:08:52.480 blown away by how much things have really improved 00:08:52.480 --> 00:08:55.100 these last few years. And again, at a price point 00:08:55.100 --> 00:08:59.860 that makes entry for the hobbyist or the person 00:08:59.860 --> 00:09:01.720 who doesn't have a ton of money, basically our 00:09:01.720 --> 00:09:04.860 core group, a whole lot easier to do than to 00:09:04.860 --> 00:09:07.830 go out there and spend more for the optics than 00:09:07.830 --> 00:09:11.149 you spent for the rifle for example oh well uh 00:09:11.149 --> 00:09:13.149 yeah thank you for saying that product quality 00:09:13.149 --> 00:09:16.049 is something we definitely uh focus on uh i mean 00:09:16.049 --> 00:09:18.789 we've um you know like i said we've been in business 00:09:18.789 --> 00:09:24.669 for about 15 years and we come out with new product 00:09:24.669 --> 00:09:28.789 lines like multiple times a year i mean we probably 00:09:30.200 --> 00:09:32.120 are at this point we're probably releasing on 00:09:32.120 --> 00:09:34.519 average like three to four new uh rifle scope 00:09:34.519 --> 00:09:38.159 lines uh every year and with with every line 00:09:38.159 --> 00:09:39.940 we want you know we're trying to make incremental 00:09:39.940 --> 00:09:43.360 over incremental improvements uh to the product 00:09:43.360 --> 00:09:46.419 every time we we release it you know the improvements 00:09:46.419 --> 00:09:50.539 might come just based on on customer feedback 00:09:50.539 --> 00:09:54.639 or feedback we get from you know people that 00:09:54.639 --> 00:09:57.059 we work with with respect to like offering certain 00:09:57.059 --> 00:10:00.220 features or just making just improving things 00:10:00.220 --> 00:10:02.279 from a quality standpoint, or they also might 00:10:02.279 --> 00:10:07.679 come from a price standpoint where we just find 00:10:07.679 --> 00:10:10.200 some way in the manufacturing process to just 00:10:10.200 --> 00:10:13.820 save a couple dollars here or there. And doing 00:10:13.820 --> 00:10:16.919 this iteratively over and over again for the 00:10:16.919 --> 00:10:20.759 past 15 years, we've been able to make quite 00:10:20.759 --> 00:10:24.120 a bit of progress since then. If you were to 00:10:24.120 --> 00:10:26.600 look back at some of our older scopes, like say, 00:10:26.679 --> 00:10:30.559 you know, from the 2010 to 2015 era, like maybe 00:10:30.559 --> 00:10:33.779 one of them, I think Craig mentioned he had one 00:10:33.779 --> 00:10:37.340 of our older scopes. Maybe that's a scope we 00:10:37.340 --> 00:10:40.500 might not have been, like today, we're not quite 00:10:40.500 --> 00:10:42.879 as proud of it as we are of some of the newer 00:10:42.879 --> 00:10:46.360 stuff. If it had been a bad scope, I probably 00:10:46.360 --> 00:10:47.779 would have never come up and talked to you at 00:10:47.779 --> 00:10:50.919 last year's SHOT Show. Okay, well, I'm glad to 00:10:50.919 --> 00:10:55.220 hear it. Yeah, I mean, our goal with every new 00:10:55.220 --> 00:10:58.419 product line that we release is just to become 00:10:58.419 --> 00:11:00.679 better and better with each product line. You've 00:11:00.679 --> 00:11:02.220 raised the bar. There's no doubt about that. 00:11:03.220 --> 00:11:04.919 One of the things you were talking about was 00:11:04.919 --> 00:11:09.039 brands 20 years ago. Are there any brands that 00:11:09.039 --> 00:11:13.240 used to be around 20 years ago, either the importer 00:11:13.240 --> 00:11:16.500 or any of the optics companies that are probably 00:11:16.500 --> 00:11:20.139 not with us today? And can you learn anything 00:11:20.139 --> 00:11:23.360 from that? Yeah. I think it dovetails really 00:11:23.360 --> 00:11:28.799 well with the Monstrum story and how we've grown 00:11:28.799 --> 00:11:33.100 as a company. So if you look back 20 years ago, 00:11:33.720 --> 00:11:36.279 I mean, there was an assault weapon ban in the 00:11:36.279 --> 00:11:41.940 US that was lifted in 2004. And if you look at 00:11:41.940 --> 00:11:47.240 gun ownership at that time. AR -15 sales in the 00:11:47.240 --> 00:11:52.179 year 2005 was approximately 300 ,000 to 400 ,000 00:11:52.179 --> 00:11:56.460 a year, versus you look at it today in 2024, 00:11:56.940 --> 00:11:59.860 it's approximately 3 to 4 million per year. In 00:11:59.860 --> 00:12:06.539 2005, there were approximately between 4 and 00:12:06.539 --> 00:12:15.700 7 million Americans that owned AR -15s. Some 00:12:15.700 --> 00:12:17.940 estimates put it at about 20 million Americans. 00:12:18.279 --> 00:12:22.980 So over the past 20 years, the market has grown 00:12:22.980 --> 00:12:28.600 significantly, and it really is kind of much 00:12:28.600 --> 00:12:33.620 different than it was back then. In 2004, I think 00:12:33.620 --> 00:12:37.659 the majority of people that owned guns, and especially 00:12:37.659 --> 00:12:42.379 tactical guns, most of them were... primarily 00:12:42.379 --> 00:12:46.440 like military and law enforcement or either that 00:12:46.440 --> 00:12:49.139 or just really hardcore enthusiasts. Besides 00:12:49.139 --> 00:12:51.159 like gun manufacturers themselves, which were 00:12:51.159 --> 00:12:54.120 limited mainly to like a handful of like, kind 00:12:54.120 --> 00:12:57.259 of like bigger brands, like, you know, like the 00:12:57.259 --> 00:13:02.100 Colts and the Bushmasters of the world. In the 00:13:02.100 --> 00:13:05.240 optics segment, it was really dominated by just 00:13:05.240 --> 00:13:08.259 kind of a handful of companies. So companies 00:13:08.259 --> 00:13:11.190 like Companies that you will have heard of, like 00:13:11.190 --> 00:13:16.730 Trijicon, Aimpoint, Eotech, these were kind of 00:13:16.730 --> 00:13:21.190 the biggest sellers of optics at that time. The 00:13:21.190 --> 00:13:24.950 thing about these companies is they actually 00:13:24.950 --> 00:13:31.169 make most of their sales and profits from military 00:13:31.169 --> 00:13:35.710 contracts and from law enforcement contracts. 00:13:36.559 --> 00:13:39.539 Those are the primary consumers of these optics. 00:13:39.960 --> 00:13:42.179 I'm trying to say this kind of diplomatically, 00:13:42.340 --> 00:13:47.200 but it makes it tricky for them to sell those 00:13:47.200 --> 00:13:50.620 products to both, you know, through these government 00:13:50.620 --> 00:13:52.840 contracts and then to turn around and sell them 00:13:52.840 --> 00:13:55.360 to consumers as well. Is it tricky because of 00:13:55.360 --> 00:13:58.899 technology transfer rules or is it because it's 00:13:58.899 --> 00:14:01.600 just an economic reality that the two, like... 00:14:01.799 --> 00:14:03.779 You know, someone buying a scope who has an institution 00:14:03.779 --> 00:14:06.100 behind them and someone buying a scope that has 00:14:06.100 --> 00:14:08.059 their own wallet behind them are two very different 00:14:08.059 --> 00:14:12.360 markets. Exactly, exactly. I would say it's that 00:14:12.360 --> 00:14:15.899 second thing. So to secure a government contract 00:14:15.899 --> 00:14:20.759 and to sell to law enforcement, you know, these 00:14:20.759 --> 00:14:23.000 products, you know, they are built to certain 00:14:23.000 --> 00:14:25.580 specs and to certain qualities and they sell 00:14:25.580 --> 00:14:27.620 at a price point that kind of reflects that. 00:14:28.240 --> 00:14:30.779 You know, these optics cost, you know, thousands 00:14:30.779 --> 00:14:37.059 of dollars. And it's a big ask to then to turn 00:14:37.059 --> 00:14:40.179 around and sell this to an average consumer who's 00:14:40.179 --> 00:14:43.759 putting it just on a gun that they've purchased 00:14:43.759 --> 00:14:47.500 themselves. And that's, you know, they might 00:14:47.500 --> 00:14:49.980 be putting that on a gun that they take to the 00:14:49.980 --> 00:14:53.429 range. a few times a year or they take it out 00:14:53.429 --> 00:14:55.129 every once in a while and they just want to have 00:14:55.129 --> 00:15:00.009 it around for security reasons. So it's a big 00:15:00.009 --> 00:15:04.190 ask for them to shell out that kind of money 00:15:04.190 --> 00:15:08.090 when they may not need it built to those same 00:15:08.090 --> 00:15:09.970 specifications. Right. They're not crawling around 00:15:09.970 --> 00:15:13.690 in the dirt and under fire all the time. I mean, 00:15:13.710 --> 00:15:16.539 most of the people that... are probably our listeners 00:15:16.539 --> 00:15:19.840 they are those those range people who take it 00:15:19.840 --> 00:15:22.559 to the range uh you know bench shooters or whatever 00:15:22.559 --> 00:15:25.460 even even hunters who go out into the field but 00:15:25.460 --> 00:15:28.200 again it's not you're not under fire you're not 00:15:28.200 --> 00:15:30.340 uh you're not crawling down on the ground okay 00:15:30.340 --> 00:15:31.919 you're probably not you're probably not in an 00:15:31.919 --> 00:15:33.860 active firefight is you know the way you draw 00:15:33.860 --> 00:15:36.519 your paycheck but at the same time i mean gerald's 00:15:36.519 --> 00:15:40.279 products have a lifetime warranty and so you 00:15:40.279 --> 00:15:42.909 know maybe we jump to that topic, Gerald. I mean, 00:15:42.929 --> 00:15:45.470 why are you confident enough? And I'm going to 00:15:45.470 --> 00:15:46.990 come back, by the way, to the import discussion, 00:15:47.210 --> 00:15:49.210 because I think that's kind of the elephant in 00:15:49.210 --> 00:15:50.669 the room that I think the people want to talk 00:15:50.669 --> 00:15:54.129 about. But let's talk about the quality. I mean, 00:15:54.149 --> 00:15:56.149 you have enough confidence in your products to 00:15:56.149 --> 00:15:59.529 offer a lifetime warranty. And you and I have 00:15:59.529 --> 00:16:02.870 already had conversations on the side about how 00:16:02.870 --> 00:16:06.100 that works. you have to have a lot of confidence 00:16:06.100 --> 00:16:09.440 in there. And, okay, I don't know where you draw 00:16:09.440 --> 00:16:11.820 the line in terms of saying, well, this was kind 00:16:11.820 --> 00:16:13.440 of abusive because you jumped out of a helicopter 00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:17.220 50 feet above the ground. But at the same time, 00:16:17.240 --> 00:16:20.379 how long did it take you maybe to grow into that 00:16:20.379 --> 00:16:25.460 confidence? It took a few years. I mean, it was 00:16:25.460 --> 00:16:28.179 kind of a leap from us. Originally, I think we 00:16:28.179 --> 00:16:30.039 offered like a one -year warranty and then we 00:16:30.039 --> 00:16:32.879 moved it to a two -year warranty. And then at 00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:36.070 some point, maybe, Five or six years ago, we 00:16:36.070 --> 00:16:38.450 finally decided to just convert it to a lifetime 00:16:38.450 --> 00:16:40.570 warranty. Like I said, I've been doing this for 00:16:40.570 --> 00:16:45.850 15 years and I have a lot of data. We sell hundreds 00:16:45.850 --> 00:16:50.450 of thousands of products every single year. And 00:16:50.450 --> 00:16:53.370 I know exactly how many of our products come 00:16:53.370 --> 00:16:57.929 back as defective. And the number is very low, 00:16:58.049 --> 00:17:02.639 anywhere between 1 % to 2%, I would say. are 00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:05.400 returned due to some type of manufacturing defect. 00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:09.059 When they are returned due to some type of defect, 00:17:09.200 --> 00:17:12.660 it usually happens right off the bat. There's 00:17:12.660 --> 00:17:14.519 something wrong with it and people realize it 00:17:14.519 --> 00:17:17.500 right away. So it was not a big leap for us to 00:17:17.500 --> 00:17:21.160 go from a one -year warranty to a lifetime warranty. 00:17:21.950 --> 00:17:23.809 like i said i i have more data than everyone 00:17:23.809 --> 00:17:29.329 else so uh i i was able to uh i i was able to 00:17:29.329 --> 00:17:31.930 just confidently convert it to a lifetime warranty 00:17:31.930 --> 00:17:35.369 and it really has not drastically altered the 00:17:35.369 --> 00:17:37.450 the amount of returns that come that come back 00:17:37.450 --> 00:17:39.869 uh i mean you mentioned people jumping out of 00:17:39.869 --> 00:17:43.809 helicopters i mean most of my customers are not 00:17:43.809 --> 00:17:47.529 uh they're they're not doing that so and nobody 00:17:47.529 --> 00:17:52.579 wants to get a get a bad product and you know 00:17:52.579 --> 00:17:54.240 have to go through the hassle of returning something 00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:57.180 and getting it replaced uh you know i i know 00:17:57.180 --> 00:17:59.579 that it's a it's a tremendous uh inconvenience 00:17:59.579 --> 00:18:01.259 and people don't want to have to worry about 00:18:01.259 --> 00:18:03.559 that so uh you know offering the lifetime warranty 00:18:03.559 --> 00:18:09.049 it's it's it's more of something that's We're 00:18:09.049 --> 00:18:11.089 just trying to communicate to consumers that 00:18:11.089 --> 00:18:13.569 that's not something that you have to worry about 00:18:13.569 --> 00:18:15.349 with our products. We really just want to put 00:18:15.349 --> 00:18:18.269 people's minds at ease. We don't want you to 00:18:18.269 --> 00:18:22.150 be concerned about getting something and having 00:18:22.150 --> 00:18:25.089 it be defective and wasting your time installing 00:18:25.089 --> 00:18:26.950 it and going out to the range and wasting the 00:18:26.950 --> 00:18:30.769 ammo. I mean, I know how much of an inconvenience 00:18:30.769 --> 00:18:34.009 that is. So we really offer it to just put people's 00:18:34.009 --> 00:18:37.089 minds at ease. So how do you describe your typical 00:18:37.089 --> 00:18:39.829 customer then? I mean, you said you have a lot 00:18:39.829 --> 00:18:43.390 of data. So what kind of person typically goes 00:18:43.390 --> 00:18:45.730 up to your booth? What kind of typical person 00:18:45.730 --> 00:18:49.170 orders your stuff? I imagine you have some mix 00:18:49.170 --> 00:18:51.609 of law enforcement and military and tactical 00:18:51.609 --> 00:18:54.650 guys and hunters and long range shooters. Tell 00:18:54.650 --> 00:18:58.349 me about, who's your target market? It's definitely 00:18:58.349 --> 00:19:02.869 budget oriented customers. Fortunately for us, 00:19:02.970 --> 00:19:06.529 I would say most people are budget oriented in 00:19:06.529 --> 00:19:09.670 one respect or another. We tend to get a lot 00:19:09.670 --> 00:19:13.430 of younger customers or people who are maybe 00:19:13.430 --> 00:19:15.509 just getting into gun ownership for the first 00:19:15.509 --> 00:19:19.190 time. And they want to test the waters without 00:19:19.190 --> 00:19:23.730 - Breaking the bank. Yeah. Without dropping like 00:19:23.730 --> 00:19:28.039 $5 ,000 on a rifle build. and you know beyond 00:19:28.039 --> 00:19:30.940 that it's just kind of everyday people that they 00:19:30.940 --> 00:19:33.299 really can't justify uh putting that amount of 00:19:33.299 --> 00:19:37.000 money into equipment um you know i think you 00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:39.759 guys mentioned it before but i mean there's a 00:19:39.759 --> 00:19:41.960 huge segment of the market i mean they're just 00:19:41.960 --> 00:19:45.019 people that enjoy shooting or owning guns or 00:19:45.019 --> 00:19:47.759 keeping guns at their house for personal security 00:19:47.759 --> 00:19:55.430 and that there's no um Yeah, there's no justification 00:19:55.430 --> 00:19:59.670 for these people putting in $5 ,000 into a gun, 00:19:59.730 --> 00:20:03.569 but they can justify it at, say, $500 or $1 ,000 00:20:03.569 --> 00:20:07.630 for a gun. Right. So, I mean, you just mentioned 00:20:07.630 --> 00:20:11.789 cost. So how has that cost of gun ownership over 00:20:11.789 --> 00:20:15.130 the years changed? I mean, we used the number 00:20:15.130 --> 00:20:17.130 before 20 years, so how has the cost of gun ownership 00:20:17.130 --> 00:20:19.910 over the last 20 years changed? And how does 00:20:19.910 --> 00:20:22.539 that relate to the sector you live in? Okay. 00:20:22.599 --> 00:20:28.279 So, I mean, this is a very salient point. And 00:20:28.279 --> 00:20:32.700 this is actually some of the... I remember this 00:20:32.700 --> 00:20:36.059 number because it actually went into the reasoning 00:20:36.059 --> 00:20:39.500 as to why we started the company and why we picked 00:20:39.500 --> 00:20:42.079 this segment. At the time we started this company, 00:20:42.279 --> 00:20:45.960 the average consumer spent about $1 ,000 on a 00:20:45.960 --> 00:20:49.900 gun. And then they spent an average of $2 ,500 00:20:49.900 --> 00:20:53.440 on... aftermarket accessories like like outfitting 00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:56.720 that gun you know so if we put that number at 00:20:56.720 --> 00:21:00.779 3500 for for the average ar -15 in you know 20 00:21:00.779 --> 00:21:05.700 years ago today you know you can purchase a budget 00:21:05.700 --> 00:21:10.019 ar -15 and outfit it with budget optics uh probably 00:21:10.019 --> 00:21:12.599 kit it out you could have a ar -15 for under 00:21:12.599 --> 00:21:17.119 500 so i mean this this uh kind of goes hand 00:21:17.119 --> 00:21:21.359 in hand with uh the AR -15 sales and the AR -15 00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:24.640 ownership numbers that I brought up earlier. 00:21:26.640 --> 00:21:32.660 As the market has grown, it's brought a lot more 00:21:32.660 --> 00:21:37.339 entrance into the market as far as AR -15 manufacturers, 00:21:38.019 --> 00:21:40.559 accessory manufacturers, optics manufacturers. 00:21:44.010 --> 00:21:47.450 When you have competition, that inevitably drives 00:21:47.450 --> 00:21:50.950 prices down. Beyond that, it's enabled certain 00:21:50.950 --> 00:21:56.690 economies of scale where we order a batch of 00:21:56.690 --> 00:22:01.490 scopes. We can order in the thousands of units 00:22:01.490 --> 00:22:04.269 at a time versus hundreds of units at a time. 00:22:04.349 --> 00:22:08.890 This enables us to bring the per unit cost down. 00:22:10.809 --> 00:22:15.289 The two factors as far as the size of the market 00:22:15.289 --> 00:22:19.329 and the price of the end components, I mean, 00:22:19.349 --> 00:22:22.390 they kind of go hand in hand and they kind of 00:22:22.390 --> 00:22:26.609 feed off each other to build the kind of booming 00:22:26.609 --> 00:22:29.329 market that we have today. Yeah, there's no doubt 00:22:29.329 --> 00:22:31.809 that what I've seen, like in the rifle market 00:22:31.809 --> 00:22:35.230 from the ARs from back, you know, 25, 30 years 00:22:35.230 --> 00:22:37.869 ago or more, 35 years ago, you know, a lot of 00:22:37.869 --> 00:22:41.230 them were built, the AR, which I guess, are we 00:22:41.230 --> 00:22:43.289 supposed to be moving more to the American sporting 00:22:43.289 --> 00:22:46.589 rifle? I think that's the new politically pro 00:22:46.589 --> 00:22:51.519 2A way to say it. But anyway. But a lot of those 00:22:51.519 --> 00:22:53.680 were done with like the original arm light handle 00:22:53.680 --> 00:22:56.900 top. Remember the A1 top where the top of the 00:22:56.900 --> 00:22:58.779 rifle was a handle? And then there were very 00:22:58.779 --> 00:23:02.900 few options for you to be able to attach a scope 00:23:02.900 --> 00:23:05.019 on the top of the handle. Colt, I think, made 00:23:05.019 --> 00:23:09.039 some very modest optics that you could put up 00:23:09.039 --> 00:23:13.940 there. But today, I never, never see that type 00:23:13.940 --> 00:23:18.200 of thing on an AR build these days. Everything 00:23:18.200 --> 00:23:22.039 now is flat top. Picatinny rails, whatever. M 00:23:22.039 --> 00:23:24.740 lock. Yeah. M -Log, yeah. And it used to be just 00:23:24.740 --> 00:23:27.920 a little bit above the receiver. Now those rails 00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:30.619 run the whole length all the way from the gas 00:23:30.619 --> 00:23:33.220 check at the front of the barrel. So you can 00:23:33.220 --> 00:23:35.000 do all sorts of stuff people are putting on. 00:23:35.099 --> 00:23:37.460 They're hanging on optics on the top, and they're 00:23:37.460 --> 00:23:41.880 doing the 45 -degree angle offset ones for backup 00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:46.400 iron sights or backup red dot for close -in work 00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:49.180 stuff. And even in the handgun space. And, of 00:23:49.180 --> 00:23:51.059 course, Craig and I started back in the day, 00:23:51.079 --> 00:23:55.490 as they say. In the handguns perspective, we 00:23:55.490 --> 00:23:58.730 never would have put, except for maybe some sort 00:23:58.730 --> 00:24:01.190 of a target pistol, target revolver, hunting 00:24:01.190 --> 00:24:03.950 revolver, you wouldn't put an optic on a pistol. 00:24:04.009 --> 00:24:06.450 But now it's like, oh, no, no, no. Red dots on 00:24:06.450 --> 00:24:10.289 pistols are almost becoming a standard. I mean, 00:24:10.329 --> 00:24:11.750 they're starting to be sold that way. So the 00:24:11.750 --> 00:24:16.670 whole movement toward optic accessories and changing 00:24:16.670 --> 00:24:18.869 the way you shoot and aim and everything like 00:24:18.869 --> 00:24:22.529 that to optics is... I don't know. It's interesting, 00:24:22.730 --> 00:24:24.589 and I'm glad, particularly in the rifle space, 00:24:24.730 --> 00:24:27.930 to do it. I'm a little less on board with it 00:24:27.930 --> 00:24:29.809 in the pistol range because I'm an iron sights 00:24:29.809 --> 00:24:33.230 guy. I'm not. I know you're not. Screw it. That's 00:24:33.230 --> 00:24:35.049 where Greg and I go for a little bit. Red dot 00:24:35.049 --> 00:24:38.549 all day long, man. Then it gives you target focus, 00:24:38.690 --> 00:24:42.690 and if you have astigmatism, it just helps. But 00:24:42.690 --> 00:24:46.029 that's my opinion, and this show is all about 00:24:46.029 --> 00:24:51.359 opinions and not, yes. So that kind of brings 00:24:51.359 --> 00:24:53.880 up another point here. I mean, the difference 00:24:53.880 --> 00:24:56.059 between the gun accessory market, which I think 00:24:56.059 --> 00:24:59.140 Ken is talking about, and the gun and gun parts 00:24:59.140 --> 00:25:03.180 market. You had mentioned that earlier, Gerald. 00:25:03.240 --> 00:25:06.579 Yes. So, I mean, I kind of wanted to bring up 00:25:06.579 --> 00:25:11.039 this point because there's an interesting distinction 00:25:11.039 --> 00:25:14.369 between the two. So a gun part is defined as 00:25:14.369 --> 00:25:16.950 something that is kind of critical in the operation 00:25:16.950 --> 00:25:19.809 of a gun. So something like a trigger or a barrel, 00:25:19.910 --> 00:25:23.990 that's considered a gun part, versus a gun accessory 00:25:23.990 --> 00:25:26.349 is something that is kind of optional. So if 00:25:26.349 --> 00:25:29.049 you would say like a red dot, something can be 00:25:29.049 --> 00:25:31.869 used with or without a red dot, or if you were 00:25:31.869 --> 00:25:35.089 to say like a flashlight. So there's an interesting 00:25:35.089 --> 00:25:40.210 provision in... in something called ITAR, which 00:25:40.210 --> 00:25:44.509 is the piece of legislation that governs import 00:25:44.509 --> 00:25:47.849 and export of weapons -related products. So gun 00:25:47.849 --> 00:25:52.150 parts are not allowed to be imported from China. 00:25:52.369 --> 00:25:56.069 That's, I would say, the primary reason why gun 00:25:56.069 --> 00:26:00.529 parts and guns and ammo, those are all manufactured, 00:26:00.750 --> 00:26:02.809 for the most part, they're manufactured in the 00:26:02.809 --> 00:26:07.549 U .S. Gun accessories, those can be imported 00:26:07.549 --> 00:26:12.829 from China. So that is the reason why you see 00:26:12.829 --> 00:26:17.410 that most of the gun accessories and gun optics, 00:26:17.609 --> 00:26:20.589 they're actually manufactured in China. I believe 00:26:20.589 --> 00:26:23.630 the statistic is something like 80 % of the rifle 00:26:23.630 --> 00:26:27.750 scopes in the U .S. market are actually manufactured 00:26:27.750 --> 00:26:33.730 in China. Really? Yes. Well, it's hard. We can't 00:26:33.730 --> 00:26:35.670 really make glass here because of environmental 00:26:35.670 --> 00:26:39.089 restrictions and stuff, right? I mean, I'm sure 00:26:39.089 --> 00:26:40.789 it's much harder. I mean, it can definitely be 00:26:40.789 --> 00:26:46.329 done. I mean, there are optics makers that manufacture 00:26:46.329 --> 00:26:51.230 in the U .S. and that actually thrive in the 00:26:51.230 --> 00:26:54.369 U .S., like the aforementioned companies we talked 00:26:54.369 --> 00:26:58.069 about. Night Force Optics is one. I believe Leupold 00:26:58.069 --> 00:27:01.079 manufactures here. I would say it is true that 00:27:01.079 --> 00:27:04.680 in China, you can make riflescopes at a significantly 00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:09.500 lower price than in the US. And that's why you 00:27:09.500 --> 00:27:13.220 see kind of most of the consumer market has gravitated 00:27:13.220 --> 00:27:17.400 there. So you then could maybe speak to the overall, 00:27:17.599 --> 00:27:21.160 I guess, made in China versus made in USA perspective. 00:27:21.339 --> 00:27:24.720 And I suppose maybe for the listeners, I mean, 00:27:25.710 --> 00:27:27.990 If the reality is that 80 % of the scopes are 00:27:27.990 --> 00:27:31.150 made in China, then that's just the market reality. 00:27:31.369 --> 00:27:34.009 And there's not a lot a person can do about it. 00:27:34.029 --> 00:27:35.509 They're not going to home grow their own scope. 00:27:35.829 --> 00:27:39.450 But maybe why shouldn't they be stressed about 00:27:39.450 --> 00:27:42.089 that, worried about it, think it's unpatriotic 00:27:42.089 --> 00:27:46.369 or something like that? Well, it's true. We got 00:27:46.369 --> 00:27:51.299 some... black and a lot of the time for being 00:27:51.299 --> 00:27:54.819 made in China, but it is approximately 80 % of 00:27:54.819 --> 00:27:59.640 the scopes in the US are made in China, including 00:27:59.640 --> 00:28:05.599 very large companies like Vortex or Bushnell 00:28:05.599 --> 00:28:09.200 or SIG. I mean, these are kind of the largest 00:28:09.200 --> 00:28:12.519 players in the optics market. And they have lines 00:28:12.519 --> 00:28:15.619 of products that are, the bulk of their consumer 00:28:15.619 --> 00:28:19.700 line is uh, is made in China stuff. I mean, we 00:28:19.700 --> 00:28:22.000 talked earlier about, um, you know, the, the 00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:26.180 dilemma that, uh, companies like Eotech or, um, 00:28:26.380 --> 00:28:30.500 uh, face in, you know, they make a very high 00:28:30.500 --> 00:28:32.900 end product and it's very difficult to, to, for 00:28:32.900 --> 00:28:35.660 that product to compete at that price in the 00:28:35.660 --> 00:28:38.240 consumer market. The way companies like Vortex 00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:40.579 have done it is they've, they've segmented, they've 00:28:40.579 --> 00:28:43.319 segmented it. They like Vortex has a high end 00:28:43.319 --> 00:28:47.880 line that's made in, in Japan. uh and then they 00:28:47.880 --> 00:28:51.859 have like a low end line that's made in in china 00:28:51.859 --> 00:28:55.740 but you know to to speak a little bit about uh 00:28:55.740 --> 00:28:58.200 kind of the made in china versus uh made in the 00:28:58.200 --> 00:29:00.640 us thing i mean there's a lot to be said there 00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:03.220 uh i guess i mean from a business perspective 00:29:03.220 --> 00:29:05.779 obviously when you outsource uh manufacturing 00:29:05.779 --> 00:29:08.599 i mean there is a trade -off um you do you know 00:29:08.599 --> 00:29:12.559 as as an american and you know as For America, 00:29:12.660 --> 00:29:15.019 obviously, there's a loss of, say, thousands 00:29:15.019 --> 00:29:18.440 of jobs, thousands of manufacturing jobs that 00:29:18.440 --> 00:29:20.240 go to China that would otherwise be in the US. 00:29:20.500 --> 00:29:26.940 But I would say the benefit of that is you also 00:29:26.940 --> 00:29:28.680 receive a certain benefit of that. And the benefit 00:29:28.680 --> 00:29:31.599 of that is that millions of people get access 00:29:31.599 --> 00:29:34.700 to significantly cheaper products. And that kind 00:29:34.700 --> 00:29:36.579 of ties into what I said earlier about the cost 00:29:36.579 --> 00:29:38.579 of gun ownership kind of plummeting over the 00:29:38.579 --> 00:29:43.529 past 20 years. So it's true there's a loss of 00:29:43.529 --> 00:29:48.170 these jobs, but today there are millions of gun 00:29:48.170 --> 00:29:51.250 owners that can buy a $100 scope versus the $2 00:29:51.250 --> 00:29:57.309 ,000 scopes that existed 20 years ago. And the 00:29:57.309 --> 00:29:59.769 kind of second point I kind of wanted to make 00:29:59.769 --> 00:30:03.349 about it is it kind of ties together with what 00:30:03.349 --> 00:30:07.950 I was saying earlier about kind of the boom of 00:30:07.950 --> 00:30:10.539 the gun industry. So, I mean, Craig, you and 00:30:10.539 --> 00:30:14.839 I, we met at SHOT Show and you saw how many companies 00:30:14.839 --> 00:30:18.059 are presenting at SHOT Show and how big the industry 00:30:18.059 --> 00:30:21.259 is today. And, you know, all of these, you know, 00:30:21.259 --> 00:30:23.700 and I mentioned before about, you know, the gun 00:30:23.700 --> 00:30:25.519 ownership numbers and, you know, what the industry 00:30:25.519 --> 00:30:28.500 was 20 years ago versus what it is today. You 00:30:28.500 --> 00:30:30.900 know, all of these companies and businesses that 00:30:30.900 --> 00:30:34.920 sprouted up, you know, around gun culture, many 00:30:34.920 --> 00:30:38.670 of them did not exist 20 years ago. You know, 00:30:38.690 --> 00:30:41.710 it's enabled kind of new brands and new categories 00:30:41.710 --> 00:30:45.269 that just weren't there. Like your podcast, for 00:30:45.269 --> 00:30:47.509 instance, this would not have been a thing 20 00:30:47.509 --> 00:30:51.130 years ago. Oh, no. Oh, definitely not. Well, 00:30:51.430 --> 00:30:54.009 I mean, frugal is a relative statement, but I 00:30:54.009 --> 00:30:56.109 mean, it would have been really hard to substantiate, 00:30:56.109 --> 00:30:59.869 you know, talking about these things. But beyond 00:30:59.869 --> 00:31:01.829 that, I mean, there are tactical like training 00:31:01.829 --> 00:31:04.009 companies, for instance, there are tactical. 00:31:04.460 --> 00:31:07.160 coffee companies like like companies like black 00:31:07.160 --> 00:31:10.559 rifle coffee and uh you know part of so many 00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:15.079 things have become part of the zeitgeist as as 00:31:15.079 --> 00:31:17.400 kind of as a result of the growth in the industry 00:31:17.400 --> 00:31:21.019 and you know beyond that like with respect to 00:31:21.019 --> 00:31:23.339 manufacturing jobs in particular i mentioned 00:31:23.339 --> 00:31:27.900 earlier that gun parts and guns uh can due to 00:31:27.900 --> 00:31:31.240 legislation can only be manufactured in the u 00:31:31.240 --> 00:31:34.380 .s The growth of the market has enabled kind 00:31:34.380 --> 00:31:40.099 of this thriving made in America gun industry 00:31:40.099 --> 00:31:44.619 with respect to gun parts and guns. I mean, there 00:31:44.619 --> 00:31:47.420 are many AR -15 manufacturers that are thriving 00:31:47.420 --> 00:31:50.799 today that weren't 20 years ago. Companies like 00:31:50.799 --> 00:31:56.599 Palmetto State Armory or, I mean, I can't even 00:31:56.599 --> 00:31:59.519 keep track of all the AR -15 manufacturers that 00:31:59.519 --> 00:32:01.880 are out there now. Even within accessories and 00:32:01.880 --> 00:32:04.539 optics, I mean, there are made in the USA companies 00:32:04.539 --> 00:32:08.400 that are thriving. Like Magpul was not what... 00:32:08.400 --> 00:32:11.319 20 years ago, Magpul was not what Magpul is today. 00:32:12.880 --> 00:32:17.039 And, you know, it's like they make budget accessories 00:32:17.039 --> 00:32:22.240 and magazines in the USA. And I'll go one step 00:32:22.240 --> 00:32:26.339 further. Even companies like Trijicon and Aimpoint, 00:32:26.460 --> 00:32:29.869 I mean, they... It's true they've lost out a 00:32:29.869 --> 00:32:32.470 little bit on the low end of the market, but 00:32:32.470 --> 00:32:35.789 they are still thriving companies on the high 00:32:35.789 --> 00:32:38.009 ends of the market. I haven't looked at their 00:32:38.009 --> 00:32:40.849 financial statements, but I'm sure they are doing 00:32:40.849 --> 00:32:45.349 multiples of what they were doing 20 years ago. 00:32:45.569 --> 00:32:48.190 And that's kind of as a result of just the growth 00:32:48.190 --> 00:32:50.789 of the entire market. Yeah, military and government 00:32:50.789 --> 00:32:53.490 has no doubt been a large component of those 00:32:53.490 --> 00:32:56.329 very high -end success stories that you have. 00:32:56.730 --> 00:32:59.549 I mean, that is part of it. But I would say even 00:32:59.549 --> 00:33:06.630 among consumers, just as you can buy a $500 AR 00:33:06.630 --> 00:33:09.730 -15 today, I mean, you can also buy like a $20 00:33:09.730 --> 00:33:12.730 ,000 AR -15 today. That part of the market has 00:33:12.730 --> 00:33:16.049 also been enabled by the growth in the market 00:33:16.049 --> 00:33:18.490 as a whole. I mean, a lot of people buy our stuff 00:33:18.490 --> 00:33:23.049 as an entry level kind of into the... into the 00:33:23.049 --> 00:33:26.210 hobby or the lifestyle and a lot of these people 00:33:26.210 --> 00:33:29.849 graduate to higher and higher levels of uh of 00:33:29.849 --> 00:33:33.950 i guess gucci here we we walked the the uh the 00:33:33.950 --> 00:33:36.869 the shot show and i it was like it seemed like 00:33:36.869 --> 00:33:41.890 every other booth had a gold -plated ar of some 00:33:41.890 --> 00:33:45.369 type i mean there were dozens of them that were 00:33:45.369 --> 00:33:48.369 spread out across the floor and it got you just 00:33:48.369 --> 00:33:50.289 eyes glassed over the first one or two you're 00:33:50.289 --> 00:33:52.029 like oh that's kind of cool you know i'll take 00:33:52.029 --> 00:33:53.430 a picture of it i mean i don't know who would 00:33:53.430 --> 00:33:55.210 ever buy one of those things but it's kind of 00:33:55.210 --> 00:33:57.569 cool to look at but then after the fifth seventh 00:33:57.569 --> 00:33:59.589 tenth twelfth well you know you're like i get 00:33:59.589 --> 00:34:01.769 whatever just walk by it too many of those things 00:34:01.769 --> 00:34:04.109 going on but i wanted to i wanted to have something 00:34:04.109 --> 00:34:05.950 i was thinking about coming hey craig and craig 00:34:05.950 --> 00:34:09.070 and i have been friends for like 50 years And, 00:34:09.090 --> 00:34:11.469 you know, back in high school or whatever it 00:34:11.469 --> 00:34:15.130 was, I remember Craig grinding his own Newtonian 00:34:15.130 --> 00:34:17.630 lens for his telescope, Newtonian telescope, 00:34:17.869 --> 00:34:21.690 and how absolutely difficult that grinding of 00:34:21.690 --> 00:34:25.969 that mirror was and how long it took to do. So 00:34:25.969 --> 00:34:29.409 the creation of quality optics to get it functional 00:34:29.409 --> 00:34:32.050 and focused was a huge deal. Oh, I could have 00:34:32.050 --> 00:34:34.289 saved a lot of money by buying the damn thing. 00:34:34.409 --> 00:34:38.010 I mean, that mirror took me like a year to get. 00:34:38.059 --> 00:34:41.980 it right longer i think it was it was brutal 00:34:41.980 --> 00:34:45.280 i know i remember i remember it's like oh my 00:34:45.280 --> 00:34:46.659 god is he ever going to be done with the damn 00:34:46.659 --> 00:34:50.139 thing you you kept at it you know you and it 00:34:50.139 --> 00:34:53.659 did work impressive actually and it's still it 00:34:53.659 --> 00:34:57.440 sits in my garage yet today uh normally unused 00:34:57.440 --> 00:35:01.940 uh it's it's it's a it was a great mirror i really 00:35:01.940 --> 00:35:05.460 nailed it but it took a If I could have written 00:35:05.460 --> 00:35:07.139 a check for it now, I probably would have done 00:35:07.139 --> 00:35:12.079 that, honestly. So, okay, the scopes that you 00:35:12.079 --> 00:35:14.420 exposed us to for the purposes of evaluation, 00:35:14.860 --> 00:35:18.260 and by the way, listeners, Gerald did provide 00:35:18.260 --> 00:35:20.900 us a couple scopes for evaluation, which is normal 00:35:20.900 --> 00:35:24.659 in these kind of cases. Both of them were first 00:35:24.659 --> 00:35:27.679 focal plane. Yes. In opposition to that, the 00:35:27.679 --> 00:35:30.480 more common product on the market is the second 00:35:30.480 --> 00:35:33.039 focal plane. Now, we know what those things are, 00:35:33.079 --> 00:35:35.760 but I'm not going to guarantee that every one 00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:37.960 of our listeners does. So could you give us a 00:35:37.960 --> 00:35:40.900 very quick tutorial on the difference between 00:35:40.900 --> 00:35:44.280 the two and why you would want one over the other? 00:35:44.539 --> 00:35:49.019 So these are terms used for variable magnification 00:35:49.019 --> 00:35:54.079 scopes. With a second focal plane scope, the 00:35:54.079 --> 00:35:57.619 size of the reticle remains constant no matter 00:35:57.619 --> 00:36:02.039 what the magnification is set to. Versus with 00:36:02.039 --> 00:36:05.260 a first focal plane scope, the size of the reticle 00:36:05.260 --> 00:36:10.219 will shrink or enlarge relative to the magnification 00:36:10.219 --> 00:36:15.039 on the scope. Why does that matter? So typically 00:36:15.039 --> 00:36:17.940 a reticle will have certain ranging information 00:36:17.940 --> 00:36:23.610 on it, so it'll have hash marks. that are kind 00:36:23.610 --> 00:36:27.889 of spaced at a certain, say, five MOA apart or 00:36:27.889 --> 00:36:31.630 one MOA apart. In a first focal plane scope, 00:36:31.769 --> 00:36:34.889 because the reticle enlarges and shrinks relative 00:36:34.889 --> 00:36:39.070 to the magnification, that ranging information 00:36:39.070 --> 00:36:43.110 within the reticle will be accurate no matter 00:36:43.110 --> 00:36:51.960 what the magnification is. One MOA hash mark 00:36:51.960 --> 00:36:56.300 will be one MOA regardless of the magnification, 00:36:56.519 --> 00:37:00.920 whereas with a second focal plane scope, the 00:37:00.920 --> 00:37:03.960 one MOA hash mark will be different depending 00:37:03.960 --> 00:37:09.400 on what the magnification is set to. So if you're 00:37:09.400 --> 00:37:11.719 using those hash marks for ranging information, 00:37:12.099 --> 00:37:13.940 you will have to do some type of mental math 00:37:13.940 --> 00:37:16.550 with a second focal plane scope. So second focal 00:37:16.550 --> 00:37:21.250 plane scopes are less expensive to manufacture 00:37:21.250 --> 00:37:23.670 than first focal plane? Is that what I'm understanding? 00:37:24.630 --> 00:37:27.150 That's correct. So traditionally, second focal 00:37:27.150 --> 00:37:32.500 plane scopes, it's quite a bit... And they've 00:37:32.500 --> 00:37:34.400 been quite a bit less expensive than first focal 00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:37.219 plane scopes. I probably did not do a good job 00:37:37.219 --> 00:37:41.679 describing that, by the way. No, it's fine. If 00:37:41.679 --> 00:37:43.719 you go to our YouTube channel, if you go to YouTube, 00:37:43.900 --> 00:37:46.460 you'll probably get a much better explanation. 00:37:46.980 --> 00:37:49.860 And it probably makes a lot more sense when you're 00:37:49.860 --> 00:37:52.239 actually looking at the reticle with graphics 00:37:52.239 --> 00:37:55.719 on it. But yes, traditionally, second focal plane 00:37:55.719 --> 00:37:57.679 scopes have been significantly cheaper than first 00:37:57.679 --> 00:38:00.769 focal plane scopes. Yeah, because my introduction 00:38:00.769 --> 00:38:04.449 to scopes was a fixed power scope. A lot of those 00:38:04.449 --> 00:38:07.550 50s and 60s scopes that were on all those rifles 00:38:07.550 --> 00:38:09.989 and stuff that I started on, you know, it was 00:38:09.989 --> 00:38:12.130 a six power, whatever it might be, whatever my 00:38:12.130 --> 00:38:15.610 6x scope. And that was it. You looked in and 00:38:15.610 --> 00:38:18.530 that was it. There was no zoom capability, no 00:38:18.530 --> 00:38:21.409 magnification change available. But now it's 00:38:21.409 --> 00:38:24.150 very, very, very common to see, you know, one 00:38:24.150 --> 00:38:27.929 to six, one to 10 or. Or some of the ones that 00:38:27.929 --> 00:38:32.170 we were looking at here went up to 18, even 25 00:38:32.170 --> 00:38:37.469 power. Rather impressive from really long -range 00:38:37.469 --> 00:38:40.110 work. Now, is Monstrum something that's focusing 00:38:40.110 --> 00:38:45.010 more on the long -range rifle shooting? That 00:38:45.010 --> 00:38:48.309 seems to be a popular sport, even that's reaching 00:38:48.309 --> 00:38:51.510 down to those of us who are more in the frugal 00:38:51.510 --> 00:38:54.530 end of things. People tend to want to reach out 00:38:54.530 --> 00:38:57.329 5, 6, 700 yards, 1 ,000 yards, if you have that 00:38:57.329 --> 00:38:59.989 ability, that range in your area that you can 00:38:59.989 --> 00:39:03.329 actually do that sort of shooting. Yes. So, I 00:39:03.329 --> 00:39:07.110 mean, we offer quite a few long -range scopes. 00:39:07.429 --> 00:39:10.010 I mean, at this point, I mean, Monstrum as a 00:39:10.010 --> 00:39:12.710 company, I mean, we offer, we have over 1 ,500 00:39:12.710 --> 00:39:17.059 different SKUs. And we have scopes that range 00:39:17.059 --> 00:39:24.059 from 1x all the way up to 36x and everything 00:39:24.059 --> 00:39:28.980 in between. By the way, we still do offer fixed 00:39:28.980 --> 00:39:32.159 magnification scopes, and those do still have 00:39:32.159 --> 00:39:39.800 a place in the market. But we have offered long 00:39:39.800 --> 00:39:42.099 -range scopes for quite some time now. I think 00:39:42.099 --> 00:39:44.219 you received our most recent version of it, which 00:39:44.219 --> 00:39:48.860 is the Beast series. But I mean, we've been making 00:39:48.860 --> 00:39:52.260 long range scopes for the last 10 years. Greg 00:39:52.260 --> 00:39:55.920 had an iteration of our G1 series, which is probably 00:39:55.920 --> 00:40:00.059 over 10 years old at this point. We offer products 00:40:00.059 --> 00:40:02.480 at this point for multiple categories, whether 00:40:02.480 --> 00:40:06.059 it's for long range, whether it's for ARs, shotgun. 00:40:06.179 --> 00:40:08.880 We have a number of shotgun accessories. Yeah, 00:40:08.920 --> 00:40:10.809 we offer a little bit of everything. Well, you 00:40:10.809 --> 00:40:14.170 have one product that we didn't really plan to 00:40:14.170 --> 00:40:16.329 talk about, but I just want to kind of alert 00:40:16.329 --> 00:40:18.949 people to it. There's a lot of magnifiers on 00:40:18.949 --> 00:40:21.650 the market that are flip -up magnifiers, like 00:40:21.650 --> 00:40:23.210 if you have an EOTech or something like that. 00:40:23.289 --> 00:40:25.130 I mean, I'll tell you, I have an EOTech on one 00:40:25.130 --> 00:40:28.130 of my guns. It is not mated with an EOTech magnifier. 00:40:28.710 --> 00:40:31.949 It's mated with a SIG magnifier, and it works 00:40:31.949 --> 00:40:33.630 out perfectly fine. You know, the height and 00:40:33.630 --> 00:40:37.289 everything works. But you have a 2X magnifier 00:40:37.289 --> 00:40:40.409 that actually goes in front of the optic. which 00:40:40.409 --> 00:40:43.170 is completely unique because it's agnostic to 00:40:43.170 --> 00:40:46.090 every you know what you put on the other side 00:40:46.090 --> 00:40:48.610 of it i think and that's that's a very interesting 00:40:48.610 --> 00:40:52.429 you know technological leap if you will that 00:40:52.429 --> 00:40:55.369 i don't think anyone else has tried well yeah 00:40:55.369 --> 00:40:58.550 so the story behind that product is so we actually 00:40:58.550 --> 00:41:02.869 sell a full lineup of uh prism scopes and we're 00:41:02.869 --> 00:41:06.630 probably we're probably the number one seller 00:41:06.630 --> 00:41:11.039 of prism scopes uh on online and on Amazon. If 00:41:11.039 --> 00:41:12.940 listeners are not familiar with what a prism 00:41:12.940 --> 00:41:16.940 scope is, it's a fixed magnification scope that 00:41:16.940 --> 00:41:20.940 uses a prism to refract light within the scope 00:41:20.940 --> 00:41:24.780 rather than a series of lenses like a traditional 00:41:24.780 --> 00:41:27.559 scope. And prism scopes tend to be much more 00:41:27.559 --> 00:41:31.769 compact than regular scopes. But I mean, they 00:41:31.769 --> 00:41:34.210 differ from a red dot in that, you know, a red 00:41:34.210 --> 00:41:36.309 dot with something like an aim point, the red 00:41:36.309 --> 00:41:38.909 dot has unlimited eye relief. So it doesn't, 00:41:38.909 --> 00:41:42.349 you can position your head anywhere behind the 00:41:42.349 --> 00:41:47.349 red dot and get a comfortable sight picture. 00:41:47.809 --> 00:41:50.610 With a prism scope, a prism scope is more akin 00:41:50.610 --> 00:41:53.170 to a rifle scope in that there is a fixed eye 00:41:53.170 --> 00:41:56.949 relief. Your eye has to be positioned a certain 00:41:56.949 --> 00:42:01.139 distance. behind the prism scope so with prism 00:42:01.139 --> 00:42:02.960 scopes traditionally you haven't really been 00:42:02.960 --> 00:42:05.360 able to use a magnifier with them because the 00:42:05.360 --> 00:42:07.260 magnifier the traditional magnifiers that go 00:42:07.260 --> 00:42:11.039 behind the optic they kind of um a there's not 00:42:11.039 --> 00:42:13.400 enough space for them well they live in the space 00:42:13.400 --> 00:42:15.219 of the eye box right i mean they live in the 00:42:15.219 --> 00:42:17.320 space where you'd have to have your eye don't 00:42:17.320 --> 00:42:20.460 they exactly that's that's one reason and then 00:42:20.460 --> 00:42:24.030 b The magnifier has its own fixed eye relief. 00:42:24.230 --> 00:42:26.690 So your eye has to be positioned a few inches 00:42:26.690 --> 00:42:30.510 behind the magnifier. So when you put the magnifier 00:42:30.510 --> 00:42:34.309 in place, even if you were to use that configuration, 00:42:34.750 --> 00:42:37.130 you would have to reposition your head after 00:42:37.130 --> 00:42:43.090 you put the magnifier in place. The forward magnifier, 00:42:43.369 --> 00:42:47.449 we designed that to be used with... prism scopes 00:42:47.449 --> 00:42:49.550 i mean it can also be used with the red dots 00:42:49.550 --> 00:42:53.510 and with uh with regular scopes as well but you 00:42:53.510 --> 00:42:57.329 can put that in front of your optic so uh you 00:42:57.329 --> 00:42:59.530 know with a prism scope you can set up your prism 00:42:59.530 --> 00:43:01.929 scope and uh set up with your given eye relief 00:43:01.929 --> 00:43:05.719 on the prism scope and whether or not that that 00:43:05.719 --> 00:43:07.679 magnifier is in place in the front of the prism 00:43:07.679 --> 00:43:11.300 scope yeah your your eye relief on uh the the 00:43:11.300 --> 00:43:13.820 prism scope will be the same and you know with 00:43:13.820 --> 00:43:17.260 this device i mean you are able to turn a 1x 00:43:17.260 --> 00:43:20.400 prism scope into 2x prism scope or a you know 00:43:20.400 --> 00:43:23.400 3x prism scope into a 6x prism scope just gives 00:43:23.400 --> 00:43:27.039 you a little bit more options uh you know for 00:43:27.039 --> 00:43:30.039 your for your configuration and you mentioned 00:43:30.039 --> 00:43:35.500 1500 skews That's just scopes? I mean, I know 00:43:35.500 --> 00:43:38.139 you have scope covers, which are really cool. 00:43:38.219 --> 00:43:41.000 I happen to like those very much. But you've 00:43:41.000 --> 00:43:43.539 got a whole bunch of other different things that 00:43:43.539 --> 00:43:46.420 go along with the scope. So how many actual scopes 00:43:46.420 --> 00:43:49.239 are you currently in your line? Just the opticals. 00:43:49.400 --> 00:43:55.219 Oh, yeah. I mean, yeah, the 1500 SKUs encompass 00:43:55.219 --> 00:43:59.320 all different types of product categories. You 00:43:59.320 --> 00:44:01.739 know, beyond scopes, it's like we're also probably 00:44:01.739 --> 00:44:05.000 the number one seller of scope rings, scope mounts, 00:44:05.400 --> 00:44:09.840 accessory rails, probably a bunch of other things 00:44:09.840 --> 00:44:15.659 on Amazon. The scopes themselves, I mean, we 00:44:15.659 --> 00:44:18.539 probably have kind of lost track at this point. 00:44:18.619 --> 00:44:22.500 Some of them are like kind of older product lines. 00:44:22.639 --> 00:44:27.269 But I mean, we have over 250 scope SKUs. at this 00:44:27.269 --> 00:44:30.289 point but i mean i that number might be a little 00:44:30.289 --> 00:44:32.650 bit i might be inflating that number a little 00:44:32.650 --> 00:44:35.030 bit because a lot of them are say uh they might 00:44:35.030 --> 00:44:37.269 be radical variations where it's like we have 00:44:37.269 --> 00:44:38.909 a given scope but we offer it with like four 00:44:38.909 --> 00:44:42.429 different radicals yeah mill dot versus yeah 00:44:42.429 --> 00:44:45.289 exactly versus moa or yeah whatever the person 00:44:45.289 --> 00:44:48.909 is is it the computer aided design or something 00:44:48.909 --> 00:44:50.869 that's it seems to me there's a lot of challenges 00:44:50.869 --> 00:44:55.239 in dividing in designing a new optic from a clean 00:44:55.239 --> 00:44:57.940 sheet of paper. I mean, even though the standards 00:44:57.940 --> 00:45:00.679 and the methodologies are already, you know, 00:45:00.679 --> 00:45:04.519 have been known for many years, but it used to 00:45:04.519 --> 00:45:06.840 be the LPVOs, which means low power variable 00:45:06.840 --> 00:45:09.820 optic for those who don't know, were pretty much 00:45:09.820 --> 00:45:12.739 limited to one to four power. And even whether 00:45:12.739 --> 00:45:15.239 or not they were a true 1X when they were zoomed 00:45:15.239 --> 00:45:18.159 all the way out was kind of questionable. You 00:45:18.159 --> 00:45:22.239 sent us a sample of a 1 to 10, and that was inconceivable 00:45:22.239 --> 00:45:24.880 not that many years ago. And when you look at 00:45:24.880 --> 00:45:28.219 the flatness of the optical plane, the fact that 00:45:28.219 --> 00:45:30.500 it doesn't have a lot of barrel distortion and 00:45:30.500 --> 00:45:34.300 all these other artifacts, chromatic aberrations 00:45:34.300 --> 00:45:36.179 and things like that, that used to be problematic 00:45:36.179 --> 00:45:40.519 in scopes, quote, unquote, back in the day. And 00:45:40.519 --> 00:45:43.460 by back in the day, I mean under 10 years ago. 00:45:44.519 --> 00:45:49.300 Now I've been swept aside. And is it just because 00:45:49.300 --> 00:45:53.219 of the increases in computational power to be 00:45:53.219 --> 00:45:55.719 able to do good design? In full transparency, 00:45:56.000 --> 00:45:58.980 I'm probably not the best person to ask this 00:45:58.980 --> 00:46:03.380 question. We do have an optics engineer on staff 00:46:03.380 --> 00:46:07.079 whose job it is to actually design the optical 00:46:07.079 --> 00:46:11.000 systems. But, I mean, there are a lot of things 00:46:11.000 --> 00:46:15.730 that... at play when designing something like 00:46:15.730 --> 00:46:18.230 a 1 to 10 scope. I mean, a lot of it is just 00:46:18.230 --> 00:46:21.050 manufacturing processes. It takes an incredible 00:46:21.050 --> 00:46:24.969 amount of precision in order to make something, 00:46:25.130 --> 00:46:27.989 you make an optical system look good at both 00:46:27.989 --> 00:46:32.840 1x and at 10x. From a manufacturing point of 00:46:32.840 --> 00:46:36.059 view, it's a challenge. And I know that when 00:46:36.059 --> 00:46:38.199 we first started making them, we would get a 00:46:38.199 --> 00:46:42.659 lot of the scopes just during the manufacturing 00:46:42.659 --> 00:46:44.900 process. They ended up just not passing muster. 00:46:45.380 --> 00:46:49.679 I don't know all the technical details as to 00:46:49.679 --> 00:46:54.619 why that is, but it was a challenge to bring 00:46:54.619 --> 00:46:57.809 those products to market. And when we did bring 00:46:57.809 --> 00:47:00.110 them to market, it's one thing to actually bring 00:47:00.110 --> 00:47:01.829 these to market, but it's another thing to bring 00:47:01.829 --> 00:47:05.690 them to market at a budget price that's going 00:47:05.690 --> 00:47:08.510 to be palatable to most consumers. When we came 00:47:08.510 --> 00:47:12.269 out with our first 1 to 10 FFP scope, probably 00:47:12.269 --> 00:47:16.010 about two years ago, it was the lowest price 00:47:16.010 --> 00:47:19.530 1 to 10 FFP scope on the market by like an order 00:47:19.530 --> 00:47:22.230 of magnitude. I think the next cheapest one on 00:47:22.230 --> 00:47:26.210 the market was... a sig scope that cost 700 also 00:47:26.210 --> 00:47:33.110 made in china that was 700 wow so i um I'm glad 00:47:33.110 --> 00:47:37.789 that you brought it up because it was a challenge 00:47:37.789 --> 00:47:40.750 to bring that to market. What kind of trade -offs 00:47:40.750 --> 00:47:42.289 are there then if you're talking about like, 00:47:42.389 --> 00:47:43.570 okay, so you have to think about durability. 00:47:43.929 --> 00:47:45.710 You have to think about price point. You have 00:47:45.710 --> 00:47:47.909 to think about the weight of the object, like 00:47:47.909 --> 00:47:50.210 what people are willing to actually, I mean, 00:47:50.230 --> 00:47:52.690 maybe there's a misperception too that like, 00:47:52.769 --> 00:47:54.829 well, it's heavy, therefore it's quality or it's 00:47:54.829 --> 00:47:58.230 light, so it must be bad. And what drives the 00:47:58.230 --> 00:48:01.469 cost at the manufacturing level of making these 00:48:01.469 --> 00:48:03.550 decisions? And then you have to scale that, obviously, 00:48:03.590 --> 00:48:06.769 to the retail price point. Every design faces 00:48:06.769 --> 00:48:09.750 trade -offs. And sort of what are those trade 00:48:09.750 --> 00:48:12.590 -offs and how do you decide which way to go? 00:48:13.590 --> 00:48:16.329 Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of things at play. 00:48:16.829 --> 00:48:19.969 I mean, first of all, I mean, I do have to give 00:48:19.969 --> 00:48:22.909 credit to our optics engineer. I mean, he's kind 00:48:22.909 --> 00:48:26.400 of a genius at making these decisions. And as 00:48:26.400 --> 00:48:28.800 I said before, it's not just about making decisions. 00:48:31.260 --> 00:48:34.920 It's not just about building a 1 to 10x scope. 00:48:34.980 --> 00:48:37.159 It's about building a 1 to 10x scope at the correct 00:48:37.159 --> 00:48:41.760 price. I mean, there are trade -offs with respect 00:48:41.760 --> 00:48:48.340 to lens quality. Lens quality and lens coatings 00:48:48.340 --> 00:48:52.440 are a huge factor in cost. So like with a scope 00:48:52.440 --> 00:48:55.929 lens, Just dipping it in some type of coating 00:48:55.929 --> 00:48:58.409 solution, just dipping it in some type of coating 00:48:58.409 --> 00:49:03.010 that will reduce the glare and that will have 00:49:03.010 --> 00:49:05.750 better light transmission. Just treating that, 00:49:05.869 --> 00:49:07.809 like one treatment of a certain type of chemical 00:49:07.809 --> 00:49:11.210 can cost, say, like... you know up to up to 20 00:49:11.210 --> 00:49:15.530 and you know like a 20 treatment of of a lens 00:49:15.530 --> 00:49:18.730 might translate to like you know a 50 60 increase 00:49:18.730 --> 00:49:23.590 in in the um retail price of a product so you 00:49:23.590 --> 00:49:26.150 know our our optics engineer i mean he is in 00:49:26.150 --> 00:49:30.690 charge of deciding like which which treatments 00:49:30.690 --> 00:49:34.090 and which processes get implemented that are 00:49:34.090 --> 00:49:36.409 going to be able to be implemented at the correct 00:49:36.409 --> 00:49:39.380 price With something like light transmission, 00:49:39.659 --> 00:49:43.500 there's a very subtle difference between a scope 00:49:43.500 --> 00:49:46.940 that has, say, like 90 % light transmission versus 00:49:46.940 --> 00:49:49.960 something that has 95 % transmission. And it 00:49:49.960 --> 00:49:54.679 might cost hundreds, if not thousands of dollars 00:49:54.679 --> 00:49:59.800 more to get from, say, 90 % to 95%. So at some 00:49:59.800 --> 00:50:02.909 point, we... And there's a diminishing return 00:50:02.909 --> 00:50:07.250 beyond a certain point. I mean, we like our scopes 00:50:07.250 --> 00:50:10.730 to be functional and we want the site picture 00:50:10.730 --> 00:50:13.190 to look good and look clear and we want our customer 00:50:13.190 --> 00:50:15.590 to be happy with the product. But at a certain 00:50:15.590 --> 00:50:19.199 point... You know, there's a cutoff where it's, 00:50:19.199 --> 00:50:21.179 you know, we have to decide it's good enough 00:50:21.179 --> 00:50:25.059 and we don't want to invest the extra, say, $20, 00:50:25.219 --> 00:50:28.699 $50 for it to get from, say, like 90 % transmission 00:50:28.699 --> 00:50:32.860 to 95 % transmission. It's like because the reality 00:50:32.860 --> 00:50:36.960 is they're not going to realize any kind of functional 00:50:36.960 --> 00:50:40.000 difference between the two in most day -to -day 00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:42.460 situations. so yeah i mean these are the trade 00:50:42.460 --> 00:50:44.400 -offs that you kind of have to think about when 00:50:44.400 --> 00:50:46.820 you're um you're bringing a product to market 00:50:46.820 --> 00:50:49.300 that at our price point at the price point we 00:50:49.300 --> 00:50:52.750 want to bring it up Craig is an audiophile, and 00:50:52.750 --> 00:50:57.289 you did your thesis, I think, Craig, on some 00:50:57.289 --> 00:51:00.369 audio stuff, and you know more about audio than 00:51:00.369 --> 00:51:02.570 I'll ever know in my whole life. I can't hear 00:51:02.570 --> 00:51:06.730 the difference between Craig's multi -thousand 00:51:06.730 --> 00:51:11.409 -dollar speaker set and the $20 set. I can't 00:51:11.409 --> 00:51:13.550 hear the difference. I'm sorry. I do have a hearing 00:51:13.550 --> 00:51:16.349 loss. I admit that. Well, that's your answer, 00:51:17.070 --> 00:51:19.820 right? Well, yeah, to a certain degree. It's 00:51:19.820 --> 00:51:21.820 like, it doesn't make the difference. I mean, 00:51:21.860 --> 00:51:24.760 so I can't, I can't justify it. I mean, okay, 00:51:24.900 --> 00:51:28.059 in optics and in audio and in cars, right? We've 00:51:28.059 --> 00:51:30.780 talked about cars before. I mean, I feel nuances 00:51:30.780 --> 00:51:33.239 in cars that you're, I wouldn't say you're immune 00:51:33.239 --> 00:51:36.059 to, but you don't care about. And to me, it would 00:51:36.059 --> 00:51:39.579 drive me insane if some of those nuances were 00:51:39.579 --> 00:51:43.340 manifest in a car or an audio system that I could 00:51:43.340 --> 00:51:45.719 hear. It would just, I'd like rather listen to 00:51:45.719 --> 00:51:48.639 nothing. So, you know, as far as scopes go, you 00:51:48.639 --> 00:51:50.880 know am i going to say well i'd rather not look 00:51:50.880 --> 00:51:53.019 through a monstrum scope and it has to be some 00:51:53.019 --> 00:51:56.679 xyz expensive brand no well hell if they're both 00:51:56.679 --> 00:52:00.590 made in the same country you know, perhaps in 00:52:00.590 --> 00:52:02.929 the same factory or at least the glass originated 00:52:02.929 --> 00:52:06.030 in the same place, maybe I don't need to spend 00:52:06.030 --> 00:52:09.469 the money. So I think, Gerald, you had some comments 00:52:09.469 --> 00:52:11.530 about, you know, the direct, I mean, you know, 00:52:11.530 --> 00:52:14.010 you talked a lot about prices and hitting the 00:52:14.010 --> 00:52:15.889 price point because otherwise you're not in the 00:52:15.889 --> 00:52:18.690 game. The direct -to -consumer model versus the, 00:52:18.730 --> 00:52:21.570 you know, the distributor wholesale model. I 00:52:21.570 --> 00:52:24.949 think earlier you did ask us like, oh, what differentiates 00:52:24.949 --> 00:52:28.639 Monstrum as a company? And I, I would say that 00:52:28.639 --> 00:52:30.920 that's one of the kind of the key differentiators 00:52:30.920 --> 00:52:35.539 that really kind of set us apart and put us on 00:52:35.539 --> 00:52:41.079 the trajectory that we've been on for the past 00:52:41.079 --> 00:52:47.920 15 years. 20 years ago, the landscape for optics 00:52:47.920 --> 00:52:49.840 was quite a bit different. But I mean, there 00:52:49.840 --> 00:52:52.360 were a handful of like made in China companies 00:52:52.360 --> 00:52:55.099 like, you know, Vortex had just started their 00:52:55.099 --> 00:52:57.800 made in China line. And you did have companies 00:52:57.800 --> 00:53:03.219 like Burris and Bushnell, who primarily manufactured 00:53:03.219 --> 00:53:07.199 out of China. But yeah, one of the key differentiators 00:53:07.199 --> 00:53:09.340 between, say, our company and a company like 00:53:09.340 --> 00:53:12.619 that is that we sell direct to consumer. So with 00:53:12.619 --> 00:53:16.730 us. We basically buy straight from the Scope 00:53:16.730 --> 00:53:19.409 factory. And then once it's in our hands, we 00:53:19.409 --> 00:53:23.590 sell directly to the consumers. So we're cutting 00:53:23.590 --> 00:53:25.769 out a couple of different layers of middlemen. 00:53:25.869 --> 00:53:28.949 With the traditional retail model, first you'll 00:53:28.949 --> 00:53:33.530 have the Scope factory. And then oftentimes you'll 00:53:33.530 --> 00:53:39.760 have a buyer that buys for the Scope brand. Once 00:53:39.760 --> 00:53:42.000 the scope is in the hands of the scope brand, 00:53:42.199 --> 00:53:45.239 they'll sell to a distributor. And then that 00:53:45.239 --> 00:53:49.380 distributor will then be responsible for getting 00:53:49.380 --> 00:53:52.340 the scopes in the hands of the retailers, which 00:53:52.340 --> 00:53:57.800 could be all the brick and mortar stores and 00:53:57.800 --> 00:54:02.579 all the different websites and all the different 00:54:02.579 --> 00:54:06.199 gun shops out there. And then from there, it 00:54:06.199 --> 00:54:10.820 is sold to the end consumer. So in that model, 00:54:10.940 --> 00:54:15.039 you have maybe four or five different layers 00:54:15.039 --> 00:54:18.639 of middlemen, and each person along the way marks 00:54:18.639 --> 00:54:20.639 it up a certain percent to make it worth their 00:54:20.639 --> 00:54:26.119 while. So the truth is, I mean, there are a handful 00:54:26.119 --> 00:54:32.719 of factories in China that are really good at 00:54:32.719 --> 00:54:38.320 making scopes or optics. Everybody pretty much 00:54:38.320 --> 00:54:41.719 knows each other and kind of knows what prices 00:54:41.719 --> 00:54:45.000 people are paying. You know, a scope that we, 00:54:45.880 --> 00:54:48.599 the price that we're paying for a scope in China 00:54:48.599 --> 00:54:53.139 is not that dissimilar to some of the traditional 00:54:53.139 --> 00:54:56.659 companies that source from China. But, you know, 00:54:56.659 --> 00:54:59.579 by cutting out, you know, these layers of middlemen, 00:54:59.619 --> 00:55:02.800 you know, we're actually able to sell at a significantly 00:55:02.800 --> 00:55:05.150 lower price. And, you know, you can see that 00:55:05.150 --> 00:55:07.769 reflected in the price of our products compared 00:55:07.769 --> 00:55:12.429 to, say, something like, say, a Vortex or, say, 00:55:12.530 --> 00:55:16.489 a Burris. Okay. One of the things I'm curious 00:55:16.489 --> 00:55:19.369 about, I was brought up with, when I finally 00:55:19.369 --> 00:55:21.969 did get the, you know, variable scopes and so 00:55:21.969 --> 00:55:26.409 forth, MOA was what I was taught. learned with 00:55:26.409 --> 00:55:30.630 uh and versus mildot um i'm curious you know 00:55:30.630 --> 00:55:33.210 what the percentage of people who go for for 00:55:33.210 --> 00:55:36.929 an moa scope versus a mildot scope and also if 00:55:36.929 --> 00:55:38.829 you sell on other markets like europe and stuff 00:55:38.829 --> 00:55:41.829 like that does it is it the same ratio over there 00:55:41.829 --> 00:55:44.449 or or over there is it all mildot and over here 00:55:44.449 --> 00:55:47.949 it's all moa or you know vice versa what have 00:55:47.949 --> 00:55:51.369 you found so i mean i prefer moa just because 00:55:52.030 --> 00:55:55.329 it's easier to remember uh just the math makes 00:55:55.329 --> 00:55:59.190 more sense like so with moa like one one moa 00:55:59.190 --> 00:56:02.570 at 100 yards is one inch and then you can just 00:56:02.570 --> 00:56:04.449 kind of figure it out from there with mildot 00:56:04.449 --> 00:56:07.909 it's uh you do have to juggle a few numbers around 00:56:07.909 --> 00:56:12.719 but uh for some reason the um i don't know about 00:56:12.719 --> 00:56:14.480 the history of it or whatever. For some reason, 00:56:14.539 --> 00:56:18.659 the precision rifle market, in the precision 00:56:18.659 --> 00:56:21.280 rifle market and the precision rifle crowd, they 00:56:21.280 --> 00:56:25.380 tend to prefer mil versus MOA. Well, that's what 00:56:25.380 --> 00:56:28.179 they're taught. Yeah, maybe that's what they 00:56:28.179 --> 00:56:31.500 learn on, I guess. I mean, maybe it's more commonly 00:56:31.500 --> 00:56:36.559 used in the military, I think. I'm not sure the 00:56:36.559 --> 00:56:42.099 exact nature of it, but from... Monstrum, from 00:56:42.099 --> 00:56:44.559 a business perspective, I would say the sales 00:56:44.559 --> 00:56:47.500 between the two models are pretty similar between 00:56:47.500 --> 00:56:50.699 the two. It might vary a little bit from model 00:56:50.699 --> 00:56:53.199 to model, like a longer range scope versus like 00:56:53.199 --> 00:56:58.079 a mid -range scope or an LPVO. But I mean, we 00:56:58.079 --> 00:57:01.039 offer both just depending on your preference. 00:57:01.139 --> 00:57:03.840 It really doesn't cost us that much more to design 00:57:03.840 --> 00:57:08.679 a second reticle and spin up two variants of 00:57:08.679 --> 00:57:14.139 a product. We don't really sell in countries 00:57:14.139 --> 00:57:17.199 outside the U .S. The U .S., as a consumer market, 00:57:17.280 --> 00:57:21.559 the U .S. pretty much dwarfs the rest of the 00:57:21.559 --> 00:57:26.539 world combined. I figured we did. I mean, we're 00:57:26.539 --> 00:57:30.820 the only ones that just let everyday people just 00:57:30.820 --> 00:57:33.960 buy as many guns as they want. Okay, exactly. 00:57:34.659 --> 00:57:39.119 And you can never have too many. As for the tariffs, 00:57:39.239 --> 00:57:41.920 are the tariffs, the recent tariffs and the threats 00:57:41.920 --> 00:57:44.000 of tariffs and the saber rattling on tariffs, 00:57:44.179 --> 00:57:47.840 is that impacting you? Yeah, that is definitely 00:57:47.840 --> 00:57:50.440 impacting us. It is something I've thought about 00:57:50.440 --> 00:57:54.619 quite a bit. And I understand kind of the reasoning 00:57:54.619 --> 00:57:58.219 for implementing tariffs from a political perspective. 00:57:58.940 --> 00:58:02.599 and using it as a negotiating tool. I will say, 00:58:02.760 --> 00:58:06.880 just to be perfectly clear, it's like we as the 00:58:06.880 --> 00:58:10.500 importer and as the brand, we are the one that 00:58:10.500 --> 00:58:14.019 pays the tariffs. So when a 30 % tariff is implemented, 00:58:14.480 --> 00:58:20.300 it's like we pay that as a duty. And ultimately... 00:58:20.300 --> 00:58:22.119 But isn't that paid against the wholesale cost, 00:58:22.280 --> 00:58:24.320 not the retail cost? I mean, it's paid against 00:58:24.320 --> 00:58:27.820 the cost at the time of importation. So 30 % 00:58:27.820 --> 00:58:30.849 retail, Or 30 % tariff, if that was the number, 00:58:30.909 --> 00:58:33.329 just to use that number. Yeah. It wouldn't translate 00:58:33.329 --> 00:58:35.550 to 30 % on the retail side. It would translate 00:58:35.550 --> 00:58:37.389 to somewhat less on the retail side because it 00:58:37.389 --> 00:58:40.650 was paid against the wholesale importation cost, 00:58:40.809 --> 00:58:44.070 correct? Yeah, that's correct. 30 % tariff is 00:58:44.070 --> 00:58:47.050 something that we'll adjust. I mean, as long 00:58:47.050 --> 00:58:49.849 as it's applied equally to everybody, we will 00:58:49.849 --> 00:58:53.489 adjust our business practices accordingly to 00:58:53.489 --> 00:58:58.530 deal with it. For a while there, they were charging, 00:58:58.670 --> 00:59:03.110 I think, 150 % tariffs. That would have a significant 00:59:03.110 --> 00:59:06.590 impact on us. It's all part of the game. It's 00:59:06.590 --> 00:59:08.409 all part of the game of getting to where you 00:59:08.409 --> 00:59:12.389 want to be, right? So, I mean, I guess, yeah, 00:59:12.550 --> 00:59:14.309 I mean, I try not to worry too much about it. 00:59:14.389 --> 00:59:18.690 I mean, ultimately, I mean, whether, you know, 00:59:18.710 --> 00:59:21.610 the tariff situation is kind of out of my hands. 00:59:22.969 --> 00:59:25.550 Whatever the tariff rate is, we just kind of 00:59:25.550 --> 00:59:28.849 try to roll with the punches. So what's next 00:59:28.849 --> 00:59:31.369 for Monstrum? I mean, upcoming products, upcoming 00:59:31.369 --> 00:59:33.969 either new directions, new technologies you're 00:59:33.969 --> 00:59:35.909 approaching, you know, what's going to continue 00:59:35.909 --> 00:59:39.369 to differentiate you in your space as, you know, 00:59:39.369 --> 00:59:42.510 you expect that other people are going to find 00:59:42.510 --> 00:59:45.329 your economies of scale and try to catch up to, 00:59:45.429 --> 00:59:47.789 you know, the volume that you're doing and things 00:59:47.789 --> 00:59:50.519 like that. How do you stay in the lead? I mean, 00:59:50.539 --> 00:59:53.000 we are constantly branching into kind of new 00:59:53.000 --> 00:59:57.860 categories. One thing that's new for us is pistol 00:59:57.860 --> 01:00:01.159 red dots. We've never really gotten into pistol 01:00:01.159 --> 01:00:06.440 red dots before. And unfortunately, we've neglected 01:00:06.440 --> 01:00:11.800 it for far too long. I believe I mentioned before, 01:00:11.920 --> 01:00:15.159 we don't want to enter a market and just become... 01:00:15.710 --> 01:00:19.050 We wouldn't enter a market and just offer the 01:00:19.050 --> 01:00:23.369 same thing at the same price as, say, a Holosun 01:00:23.369 --> 01:00:27.349 or a Vortex. Because if we did that, why bother? 01:00:27.630 --> 01:00:30.130 There's no point in us replicating what they 01:00:30.130 --> 01:00:31.630 did because they already did it, so you may as 01:00:31.630 --> 01:00:37.289 well just buy it from them. We're currently working 01:00:37.289 --> 01:00:41.730 on pistol red dots. They're going to be a fraction 01:00:41.730 --> 01:00:44.949 of the price at what you can buy from our competitors. 01:00:45.630 --> 01:00:48.070 um you know these days you can probably buy a 01:00:48.070 --> 01:00:52.170 pretty decent pistol red dot for 150 200 um you 01:00:52.170 --> 01:00:54.170 know we want to come in at maybe uh half the 01:00:54.170 --> 01:00:57.110 price of that or less uh we have a couple uh 01:00:57.110 --> 01:01:01.090 new pistol red dots that will probably be launching 01:01:01.090 --> 01:01:04.769 within the next month or two so that will keep 01:01:04.769 --> 01:01:06.989 us occupied for a bit yeah i mean we'll just 01:01:06.989 --> 01:01:09.750 do what we've always done we just just incrementally 01:01:09.750 --> 01:01:13.170 just improve our quality and uh just incrementally 01:01:13.170 --> 01:01:15.650 don't watch new product lines little by little 01:01:15.650 --> 01:01:18.710 can you say anything about the color uh of reticles 01:01:18.710 --> 01:01:21.909 in terms of i used to always be red and then 01:01:21.909 --> 01:01:24.570 um and then a lot of companies including yours 01:01:24.570 --> 01:01:27.070 came out with green and i think some went to 01:01:27.070 --> 01:01:29.210 blue and i don't know at what point it becomes 01:01:29.210 --> 01:01:32.250 eye candy or whether these you know different 01:01:32.250 --> 01:01:35.030 colors actually have functional benefits i think 01:01:35.030 --> 01:01:38.530 green does because for one thing It's in a different 01:01:38.530 --> 01:01:40.670 part of the spectrum where your eye actually 01:01:40.670 --> 01:01:45.210 tends to have its primary focus. I know the story 01:01:45.210 --> 01:01:48.570 of the old Ray -Ban aviators. They had kind of 01:01:48.570 --> 01:01:51.110 a greenish tint. And one time I talked to a Ray 01:01:51.110 --> 01:01:53.090 -Ban engineer about that. They said, well, that's 01:01:53.090 --> 01:01:57.449 because your eye primarily focuses in that part 01:01:57.449 --> 01:01:59.250 of the spectrum. That's why they put the green 01:01:59.250 --> 01:02:02.730 tint in the lens. So, you know, any comments 01:02:02.730 --> 01:02:07.000 on that? Or is it just a case of... I can put 01:02:07.000 --> 01:02:09.380 any color in there or is there really a functional 01:02:09.380 --> 01:02:13.840 benefit? My understanding of the red versus the 01:02:13.840 --> 01:02:17.780 green comes more from the market perspective. 01:02:17.800 --> 01:02:22.760 Just seeing which one sells more and which one 01:02:22.760 --> 01:02:27.480 sells best and how much does it cost to... To 01:02:27.480 --> 01:02:30.039 get green versus red. My understanding of it, 01:02:30.059 --> 01:02:33.559 though, from my perspective, is that green is 01:02:33.559 --> 01:02:38.000 easier to see in daylight than red. With respect 01:02:38.000 --> 01:02:40.619 to red dots, we're going to start with red. We'll 01:02:40.619 --> 01:02:43.139 take things one step at a time. We're going to 01:02:43.139 --> 01:02:47.900 start with red and just kind of go from there. 01:02:48.679 --> 01:02:52.679 But if we can deliver green at an attractive 01:02:52.679 --> 01:02:55.380 price, we'll do that also. I mean, if people 01:02:55.380 --> 01:03:00.199 decide they want... purple or orange uh and the 01:03:00.199 --> 01:03:02.739 the sales numbers justify it like we can make 01:03:02.739 --> 01:03:04.860 that too but we'll start with red and then maybe 01:03:04.860 --> 01:03:07.480 move to green and then what footprints you can 01:03:07.480 --> 01:03:10.599 do rmsc or mos or do you know what footprints 01:03:10.599 --> 01:03:13.300 yet uh yeah well i mean we're going to start 01:03:13.300 --> 01:03:17.469 with rmr and then uh an rmsc i i don't want to 01:03:17.469 --> 01:03:19.329 promise too much a lot of this stuff is in the 01:03:19.329 --> 01:03:20.869 pipeline i don't know if it's coming out three 01:03:20.869 --> 01:03:24.469 months or three years so uh okay well but uh 01:03:24.469 --> 01:03:27.690 i can say with uh authority that uh an rmr and 01:03:27.690 --> 01:03:30.610 rmsc version are coming uh coming to the market 01:03:30.610 --> 01:03:33.989 soon as we're recording it this uh this is uh 01:03:34.349 --> 01:03:36.989 prime day or this is the shopping holiday that 01:03:36.989 --> 01:03:39.449 amazon invented several years ago so this is 01:03:39.449 --> 01:03:42.250 one of our busiest uh this is one of our busiest 01:03:42.250 --> 01:03:44.110 weeks of the year this year they've actually 01:03:44.110 --> 01:03:46.630 expanded it to a four -day event first first 01:03:46.630 --> 01:03:48.289 they invented the holiday and called it prime 01:03:48.289 --> 01:03:51.269 day and then uh several years later they they 01:03:51.269 --> 01:03:53.389 moved it to a two -day event this year they're 01:03:53.389 --> 01:03:57.070 trying out a four -day event yeah we're we're 01:03:57.070 --> 01:04:00.719 kind of juggling all these promotions and making 01:04:00.719 --> 01:04:04.159 sure everything's in stock right now. Yeah, I've 01:04:04.159 --> 01:04:06.019 already dropped hundreds of dollars today. I 01:04:06.019 --> 01:04:09.059 already know about it, yeah. Any closing comments 01:04:09.059 --> 01:04:11.179 for you there, Gerald? This has been an entertaining 01:04:11.179 --> 01:04:15.900 show, and I want to really emphasize that we 01:04:15.900 --> 01:04:17.159 wouldn't bring you on if we didn't like your 01:04:17.159 --> 01:04:19.960 products. Well, I'm glad to hear it. Thanks for 01:04:19.960 --> 01:04:22.460 having me, and it was nice chatting with you. 01:04:23.099 --> 01:04:25.420 Absolutely. There you go. Well, we'd like to 01:04:25.420 --> 01:04:29.539 thank Gerald Kim. He's the CEO of Monstrum. He 01:04:29.539 --> 01:04:32.539 came on today and talked to us about the value 01:04:32.539 --> 01:04:35.019 proposition of some of the optics that are available 01:04:35.019 --> 01:04:38.500 and how far superior, in my opinion anyway, they 01:04:38.500 --> 01:04:40.500 are to things that were available even just a 01:04:40.500 --> 01:04:44.000 few years ago. I was very, very impressed by 01:04:44.000 --> 01:04:45.659 the quality of the scopes that we've been able 01:04:45.659 --> 01:04:48.440 to review here, and I'm looking forward to spending 01:04:48.440 --> 01:04:50.420 a lot more range time with some of them, actually. 01:04:50.920 --> 01:04:54.519 So with that, Craig, I mean... Very impressed 01:04:54.519 --> 01:04:57.800 by his presentation. And again, the number of 01:04:57.800 --> 01:05:00.679 products that he has available, the number of 01:05:00.679 --> 01:05:04.539 SKUs he has available, just great stuff. I think 01:05:04.539 --> 01:05:06.619 this dovetails really nicely with the show that 01:05:06.619 --> 01:05:10.619 we did with Ryan from ATN, where we talked about 01:05:10.619 --> 01:05:15.199 the digital scope space in both thermal and night 01:05:15.199 --> 01:05:18.780 vision scopes. This is a more traditional optics 01:05:18.780 --> 01:05:21.440 company, obviously a lower price point, even 01:05:21.440 --> 01:05:24.539 though there's a vast difference in cost between 01:05:24.539 --> 01:05:26.500 them they're both value companies because they 01:05:26.500 --> 01:05:30.039 both live in the space uh and occupy that you 01:05:30.039 --> 01:05:33.039 know top of the hill in terms of value in both 01:05:33.039 --> 01:05:35.840 traditional optics and in you know for people 01:05:35.840 --> 01:05:38.679 who need night vision or low light uh we know 01:05:38.679 --> 01:05:41.119 now we've covered both of those and i'm still 01:05:41.119 --> 01:05:44.659 looking to get uh eotech on at some point because 01:05:44.659 --> 01:05:46.820 eotech's technology is somewhat different than 01:05:46.820 --> 01:05:51.119 everyone else's in the holographic um uh, optic 01:05:51.119 --> 01:05:53.840 space. And, and I think that they have a valid, 01:05:53.860 --> 01:05:56.619 uh, uh, story to tell. And you might think, you 01:05:56.619 --> 01:05:59.760 know, EOTech value. Well, you know what? I kind 01:05:59.760 --> 01:06:02.179 of think they are because their stuff is so unique 01:06:02.179 --> 01:06:05.320 and to me so good. And you could have, I don't 01:06:05.320 --> 01:06:07.380 know, a whole conversation about their whole 01:06:07.380 --> 01:06:10.440 challenge that they had at some point and, and 01:06:10.440 --> 01:06:12.900 the point of aim shifting. Well, I want to get 01:06:12.900 --> 01:06:15.039 them on and let them tell that story quite honestly. 01:06:15.199 --> 01:06:18.960 So anyway, for. You guys who have not listened 01:06:18.960 --> 01:06:20.860 to those past shows, go back and listen to them. 01:06:20.940 --> 01:06:22.940 I mean, as I mentioned last time, they're kind 01:06:22.940 --> 01:06:26.239 of timeless shows. We don't do stuff that's so 01:06:26.239 --> 01:06:29.079 specific in time that they don't have applicability. 01:06:29.420 --> 01:06:32.559 The medical show that we did, the storage show 01:06:32.559 --> 01:06:36.400 that we did, the show about CCW Safe, all that 01:06:36.400 --> 01:06:39.239 stuff is absolutely as relevant now as the day 01:06:39.239 --> 01:06:45.000 we recorded it. So website, frugalfirearmspodcast 01:06:45.000 --> 01:06:48.289 .com. That's the clearinghouse for taking you 01:06:48.289 --> 01:06:51.010 to where all of our episodes are located. It's 01:06:51.010 --> 01:06:53.090 got the links to the Facebook page, the Twitter 01:06:53.090 --> 01:06:55.489 page. Oops, I'm sorry. It should be the X page. 01:06:56.090 --> 01:07:00.369 Has links to Instagram as well as links to our 01:07:00.369 --> 01:07:03.130 email. If you'd like to be on the show, please 01:07:03.130 --> 01:07:05.230 reach out to us. If you have questions, definitely 01:07:05.230 --> 01:07:07.550 do that as well. But what's the most important 01:07:07.550 --> 01:07:10.429 thing you can do? Like, subscribe, tell your 01:07:10.429 --> 01:07:13.090 friends, do those things because it helps us 01:07:13.090 --> 01:07:16.690 help you. absolutely what are we here to do ken 01:07:16.690 --> 01:07:20.289 we are here to bring and show you the value proposition 01:07:20.289 --> 01:07:23.349 of the shooting sports and enjoyment so craig 01:07:23.349 --> 01:07:26.630 um what are you doing this weekend This weekend, 01:07:26.750 --> 01:07:30.030 Ken, I am going to be featured on ESPN Radio 01:07:30.030 --> 01:07:35.329 out of St. Louis on the Big 550 KTRS. And we're 01:07:35.329 --> 01:07:38.570 going to be doing one of their shows with a gentleman 01:07:38.570 --> 01:07:41.429 named Dan Young, who is known for the Outdoor 01:07:41.429 --> 01:07:45.409 Call radio show for KTRS. It's called KTRS Outdoors. 01:07:45.510 --> 01:07:48.030 And that is going to be live on Sunday evening 01:07:48.030 --> 01:07:50.789 for any listeners either in the St. Louis area 01:07:50.789 --> 01:07:54.929 or who pull up their feed after the show. Excellent. 01:07:55.199 --> 01:07:57.920 I'm glad to see that you're expanding our listeners 01:07:57.920 --> 01:08:01.500 across the nation. Well done. Thanks very much 01:08:01.500 --> 01:08:03.880 for listening, folks. See you next time. Bye 01:08:03.880 --> 01:08:28.069 -bye. grinding his own Newtonian telescope lens 01:08:28.069 --> 01:08:31.329 and how difficult that process was. Is that your 01:08:31.329 --> 01:08:34.090 phone, Ken? Yeah, I can't kill it in the background. 01:08:34.189 --> 01:08:36.149 I apologize. Chuck it into the room or something. 01:08:37.189 --> 01:08:39.710 Go ahead and start that part over again. It was 01:08:39.710 --> 01:08:42.130 ringing over you talking. Sorry about that.