WEBVTT

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Yep, and she's squirting all over the place,

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okay? This is not my thing, okay? And real quick,

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real quick, Ken. You don't want to use a tourniquet

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there. No, you do not. No, I knew that. Hey,

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neck tourniquets are very effective at stopping

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bleeding. But there are some treatment costs.

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Some side things, yeah. Welcome to Episode 17

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of the Frugal Firearms Podcast, the podcast that

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is here to help you get the most for your money,

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for your shooting dollar, across not just firearms,

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but the entirety of the shooting sports industries.

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I'm joined today by Ken. Ken, say hello. Hello,

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listeners. I appreciate you guys coming back,

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and I think we've got a very interesting show

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to talk to today. So we've talked a lot about

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going to SHOT Show, and that's where we mine

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a lot of our prospects for doing podcasts. And

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when you walk that show, it's something like

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860 ,000 square feet of floor space. And when

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you're walking this show, you come across that

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they kind of organize things categorically. And

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there's stuff on the upper floor, which are the

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big, expensive displays by companies like Smith

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& Wesson and Glock and stuff like that. And then

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there's a lot of other companies that occupy

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smaller booths, generally down on the first floor.

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Some of them are startups, some of them are established,

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but don't want to spend literally $200 ,000 on

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setting up a display. And I walk every... foot

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of the entire floor space as part of my dedication

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to you listeners. And one room has medical gear.

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It's not one of the bigger rooms. And I kind

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of want you to think for a second about maybe

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why that is. I mean, yes, it's a firearms show.

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But one thing that I found there was this one

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particular table by a company called Rescue Essentials.

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And Rescue Essentials had a lot of things out

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that were training aids, not just things that

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you would use literally in the field, but things

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to help you learn how to use those things in

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the field. So I stopped and had a rather long

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conversation with the gentleman who was standing

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there, who was very gracious with his time, a

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gentleman named Dr. Dana Onifer. Dr. Onifer spent

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probably across two days about 45 minutes talking

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to me. And when you're at a show that has, like

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I said, 860 ,000 square feet of floor space,

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spending that much time with anybody is really

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quite an investment. So I asked Dr. Onifer to

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come on and join us on the show because I think

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that a topic that is just ignored. way too much

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in the shooting industry is your medical EDC

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gear and what you should really have. Because

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when you think about the probability of needing

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a firearm, in fact, I'm going to ask you, Ken,

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what do you carry a firearm for? What is your

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purpose in carrying a firearm? My purpose of

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having my CCW and carrying my firearm is an emergency

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situation that might arise in the most unlikely

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of scenarios. I mean, I hate to say it, church.

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I'm going to the movie theater, whatever it might

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be. But it is to protect myself and my family

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and others if I can. Okay. So you're carrying

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a firearm, even though it seems a little bit

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maybe backwards, as a life -saving tool. Yes,

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like a fire extinguisher. But are you then also

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prepared? to handle the more likely scenario

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of you come across a medical emergency. Or let's

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just say that you have to use that firearm in

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anger. Are you ready to render aid to those who

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also may be at the scene and who are injured?

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Interesting question. I mean, if I'm at the range,

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I have a medical kit. you know with me at the

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range uh which has tourniquets and various other

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things which would be for only immediate stuff

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until we get the professionals there um but yeah

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this is an area that i'm certain i have not given

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enough attention to and and it's something i'm

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very much looking forward to hearing the doctor

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talk about and and with that we'll bring on um

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dr dana onifer uh from rescue essentials and

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and doctor welcome to the show and we'd like

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to get A little bit of your background. How did

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you become associated with Rescue Essentials?

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What is your interest and background? Why are

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you taking your time to talk to us today? Well,

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hi, Craig. Hi, Ken. Thanks for having me on.

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So a little bit of backstory. I spent 33 years

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in the Navy. I did 12 of those years as a hospital

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corpsman with Marine Force Recon. And then...

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Thank you for paying your taxes. I went to medical

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school on the taxpayer dollar at the Uniformed

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Services University of the Health Sciences, or

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we just call it USU, in Bethesda, Maryland, which

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is the government's medical school. And graduated

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class of 2005 and then went back to be in the

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doctor for Marine Force Recon Unit and then was

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at MARSOC. Retired in 2022 and... I've been involved

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with the medical research organization, or I

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should say the medical research infrastructure

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within the military. And at those events, you

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have lots of trade show vendors that set up their

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stuff. I became good friends with a bunch of

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those different people. And one of them in particular,

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when I retired, she said, hey, what are you doing?

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And I said, not a whole lot right now. And she

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said, there is these people. I think they're

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really good people. And they could use some help

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with some product development and get some exposure

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to the military. Would you like to consult for

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them? And I said, sure. And so I first met those

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folks in May of 2025 at the Special Operations

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Medical Association conference in Raleigh. And

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I signed an agreement with them, I think, in

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July. And so I've been working with them. on

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a part -time basis as a consultant since then,

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coming up on two years. That sounds like it's,

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well, thank you for your service, your prior

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service, of course. And it sounds to me like

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you probably during that tenure were exposed

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to a lot of things that would make a billy goat

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puke, right? In terms of the types of injuries

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and maybe lessons learned about the sort of things

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that people could have done but maybe didn't

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have the training or equipment to do to to save

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their own life or the life of their buddy next

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to them is that that a good guess so um yeah

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i'm not as much as some uh more than others you

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know but i think the what's what's more important

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for from my perspective what i've done is um

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from maybe a leadership and education and training

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and a policy standpoint, is helping to develop

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the guidelines that we use throughout the DOD

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and really internationally. So I spent nine years

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on the Committee for Tactical Combat Casualty

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Care, which is a DOD organization under the Joint

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Trauma System. And since about 2002, I think

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maybe longer than that. They've been the organization

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that has been delegated the responsibility of

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creating the guidelines for tactical combat casualty

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care. We'll call it TC3. Some people call it

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T -Tri -C. But that is the first aid for combat

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medicine. And it's also led to... interactions

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with and partnerships with civilian medicine

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as well. In particular, after the Boston Marathon

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bombings and the Sandy Hook school shooting,

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the American College of Surgeons developed the

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Stop the Bleed campaign, which is modeled, their

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treatment guidelines are modeled on the TC3 guidelines.

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Those guidelines are also used by civilian paramedics

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and in particular like SWAT paramedics and SWAT

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teams. uh under the name of tactical emergency

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casualty care and this is um the month of may

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coming up on the end of month of may here so

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this is still stop the bleed month um how how

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often would you say you know given given your

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background and and all that you've been exposed

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to How often is the average person, let's just

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say the average person for this listening audience

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is a CCW carrier. Let's just kind of set that

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as the ground rule for your average person. How

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often is that average person going to come across

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a medical emergency that would require some application

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of medical experience, training, or equipment,

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or I suppose all those three, going? against

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the backdrop of how often would they perhaps

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need to use their firearm in anger to save the

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life or some other improvised weapon to save

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a life. And that could be, you know, Ken mentioned

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being on the range, which is sort of a, you know,

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a place where there's a lot of guns and there's

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therefore a lot of danger with maybe uneducated

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people or inexperienced people. But at the same

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time, I mean, out in the public, probably a lot

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fewer guns, but there's a lot more risk. of other

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natures out there. Yeah. So that's a, that's

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a great question. And then I was doing some research

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because there's, there's not a lot of really

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good data on exactly how often that happens.

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You know, you'll see some numbers that firearms

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firearms are used somewhere between one and 2

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million times a year to prevent violence, right.

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Or that they are used to actually save someone's

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life. the statistics say potentially that many

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times and often that's just brandishing right

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recognize like someone you say hey i've got a

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gun and then the bad guy says okay i don't want

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to mess with that and they just wander off right

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or they leave um so what i i i looked at some

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of the the numbers that we have available there's

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about 150 000 deaths in the u .s every year from

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trauma and somewhere between 60 and 30 000 of

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those are from bleeding to death and and that

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may be a combination of internal and external

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hemorrhage so internal the bleeding is inside

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your body right like you get a pelvis fracture

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um or you're you know a motor vehicle accident

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your liver gets lacerated that bleeding is inside

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there's nothing i can do about that but then

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there's external hemorrhage where i have a cut

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That could be a motor vehicle accident as well.

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That could be an industrial accident. That could

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be a lawnmower, farming equipment, whatever.

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And your blood is now on the ground and is continuing

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to pour out, and we need to stop that. So that's

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30 ,000 to 60 ,000 people that die every year

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from bleeding that are potentially savable. Let's

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compare that with... CPR and cardiac arrest.

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In the US, there's about 350 ,000 people a year

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that experience out -of -hospital cardiac arrest.

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People who drop dead, sudden heart attack. CPR

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is not particularly effective. Of those 350 ,000,

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about 10 % of them will survive. Really? I thought

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the numbers were a lot better than that. No,

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not at all. And improvements, you know, the things

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that will improve a person's likelihood of survival

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is rapidly starting CPR, right? So bystander

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CPR, somebody gets that heart, I'm sorry, gets

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that blood moving and, you know, and rapid use

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of an AED, automatic external defibrillator.

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Right. And so that's why everybody gets trained

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with CPR and you have AEDs all over the place.

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Yeah, they told us that the best place to get

00:12:44.779 --> 00:12:47.679
a heart attack was at work. Right, because there's

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probably an AED there. It's there on the wall,

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and the people at work are trained. Yeah. So,

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you know, I make the argument that when you think

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about this, 30 ,000 to 60 ,000 people that die

00:12:59.759 --> 00:13:04.080
every year from external hemorrhage, tourniquets

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are on your worst day. If you've got a good tourniquet

00:13:07.879 --> 00:13:09.279
and you know how to use it, you're going to be

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about 60 % to 70 % reliable. 60 to 70 % effective.

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And if you know what you're doing and you've

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got a good tourniquet and you use it correctly,

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you're upwards of 90 plus percent. So you're

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potentially saving 20 to as high as 55 ,000 people

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a year by knowing how to stop the bleed. So,

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you know, I think it's important for people to

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know this stuff. whether or not you're going

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to carry a gun. And obviously that's my bias,

00:13:43.860 --> 00:13:47.259
right? But in particular, if you are involved

00:13:47.259 --> 00:13:51.159
or have the potential to be involved in making

00:13:51.159 --> 00:13:53.840
metal go really fast, right? Now, whether that

00:13:53.840 --> 00:13:57.419
means you own a gun range, right? You sell guns,

00:13:57.600 --> 00:14:00.639
you teach people how to shoot, you shoot, you

00:14:00.639 --> 00:14:04.379
carry, any of those people, I think that there's

00:14:04.379 --> 00:14:06.960
a certain responsibility of being able to deal

00:14:06.960 --> 00:14:09.529
with the consequences. of after the gun goes

00:14:09.529 --> 00:14:13.049
bang. When metal hits tissue, when metal hits

00:14:13.049 --> 00:14:16.049
a body, a human person, and does that damage.

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Craig, you used the term in anger, and I try

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not to use that expression. I'll say in extremis.

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Okay. I like that better. Some of it's kind of

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philosophical for me. From my Christian worldview,

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I try not to hate anyone. I'm trying to stop

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a bad guy from doing bad things, and I'd rather

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not kill them, but chances are good I've got

00:14:42.669 --> 00:14:45.850
pretty good shot placement, and they may not

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survive this encounter. Yeah, you're right, and

00:14:48.830 --> 00:14:51.490
I suppose I was just using a colloquial term

00:14:51.490 --> 00:14:55.730
that is maybe perhaps overused, but you're right.

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Actually, if you're angry, you probably have

00:14:58.899 --> 00:15:00.740
the time to think about something and maybe you

00:15:00.740 --> 00:15:02.740
should disengage, right? I mean, it's time to

00:15:02.740 --> 00:15:05.000
disengage. Because if it's just reactionary and

00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:07.980
the emotion comes later, right? Right, because

00:15:07.980 --> 00:15:11.039
the best response is to walk away. If possible,

00:15:11.299 --> 00:15:16.600
right? Avoid conflict. Or run. Yeah. You mentioned

00:15:16.600 --> 00:15:20.980
metal going fast. I mean, a car goes fast, too,

00:15:21.019 --> 00:15:23.039
and it's an awful lot of metal. Yeah, so does

00:15:23.039 --> 00:15:26.059
a chainsaw blade. Right. And you could, I mean,

00:15:26.059 --> 00:15:27.899
how often do people come across car accidents

00:15:27.899 --> 00:15:30.700
that just drive on by where maybe they could

00:15:30.700 --> 00:15:33.080
have rendered some aid if they knew what they

00:15:33.080 --> 00:15:35.620
were doing? And actually, your previous statement,

00:15:35.639 --> 00:15:38.580
you teed up two other points here. Although I'm

00:15:38.580 --> 00:15:40.240
going to hold those points till later, just in

00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:42.960
the flow of the conversation. But to pick up

00:15:42.960 --> 00:15:46.679
on your percentages, okay, how many CCW holders

00:15:46.679 --> 00:15:49.769
do you estimate? Maybe you have solid numbers

00:15:49.769 --> 00:15:52.009
in this. Maybe it's just a gut feel, which is

00:15:52.009 --> 00:15:56.029
either one is fine. How many CCW carriers also

00:15:56.029 --> 00:15:59.190
carry some medical EDC with them regularly in

00:15:59.190 --> 00:16:01.929
public where it's accessible in the timeframe

00:16:01.929 --> 00:16:04.590
that matters? I mean, what's the phrase that

00:16:04.590 --> 00:16:07.289
I work for the Navy as well? Technology at the

00:16:07.289 --> 00:16:10.710
speed of relevance. In other words, do you have

00:16:10.710 --> 00:16:12.909
the thing? It may be in your car a hundred yards

00:16:12.909 --> 00:16:14.710
away, which is not going to do you a lot of good.

00:16:14.789 --> 00:16:16.649
Is it really on your person? Can you really use

00:16:16.649 --> 00:16:21.110
it? Right. I live in a very military town. I

00:16:21.110 --> 00:16:23.909
live just outside of Camp Lejeune. And a lot

00:16:23.909 --> 00:16:27.129
of the people that I know and interact with here

00:16:27.129 --> 00:16:32.110
who carry are much more likely to have medical

00:16:32.110 --> 00:16:34.230
equipment, at least a tourniquet with them. And

00:16:34.230 --> 00:16:35.889
a lot of that's because they're issued this stuff,

00:16:36.009 --> 00:16:37.990
right? They get a fresh tourniquet every time

00:16:37.990 --> 00:16:39.529
they go on a deployment. So they probably got

00:16:39.529 --> 00:16:42.570
a whole bunch of crap sitting in their garage.

00:16:43.269 --> 00:16:45.830
But, you know, from SHOT Show, I've been to SHOT

00:16:45.830 --> 00:16:48.840
Show twice. And in a couple of other venues,

00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:52.059
in talking to people who are involved in the

00:16:52.059 --> 00:16:54.820
firearms industry and who are avid shooters,

00:16:54.960 --> 00:16:57.519
gun owners, gun store owners and stuff like that,

00:16:57.580 --> 00:17:01.259
or even just to a local gun show, there's very

00:17:01.259 --> 00:17:05.299
little recognition that maybe I should carry

00:17:05.299 --> 00:17:08.559
medical equipment. Maybe I should carry a tourniquet.

00:17:08.660 --> 00:17:12.220
And I've used that same expression. If you're

00:17:12.220 --> 00:17:14.740
involved in making metal go fast. You need to

00:17:14.740 --> 00:17:16.940
be ready to deal with the consequences of that.

00:17:17.119 --> 00:17:19.940
And, you know, I'm not a lawyer. I don't have

00:17:19.940 --> 00:17:23.279
any legal training. I did listen to your last

00:17:23.279 --> 00:17:27.099
episode about the concealed carry, the CCW safe,

00:17:27.279 --> 00:17:29.660
which I found that very interesting. So I've

00:17:29.660 --> 00:17:31.940
been a member of another organization, but after

00:17:31.940 --> 00:17:34.140
listening to that podcast, I'm going to go look

00:17:34.140 --> 00:17:36.059
at the terms of that organization and compare

00:17:36.059 --> 00:17:38.359
it to CCW safe because I liked a lot of the things

00:17:38.359 --> 00:17:42.980
that I heard. But, you know, in my mind, The

00:17:42.980 --> 00:17:44.819
first thing I've got to take care of is me, right?

00:17:45.480 --> 00:17:49.720
I've got to make sure that I survive this encounter

00:17:49.720 --> 00:17:52.980
because my adversary may have good shot placement

00:17:52.980 --> 00:17:55.599
too. And so the first thing I want to do is make

00:17:55.599 --> 00:17:58.319
sure that I don't bleed out. The second thing

00:17:58.319 --> 00:18:00.339
I want to do is make sure that if there are any

00:18:00.339 --> 00:18:03.000
innocent bystanders who have been harmed, that

00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:05.920
I can take care of them if possible. And all

00:18:05.920 --> 00:18:08.259
of this stuff, when I think about this and when

00:18:08.259 --> 00:18:10.460
we talk about what should I carry, this is all...

00:18:11.250 --> 00:18:13.670
predicated on the idea that that i can make a

00:18:13.670 --> 00:18:17.349
911 call and ems is going to arrive in a relatively

00:18:17.349 --> 00:18:21.349
quick relatively quickly right like 10 minutes

00:18:21.349 --> 00:18:24.069
or less yeah 15 at the most we're not hanging

00:18:24.069 --> 00:18:27.289
out on a farm for an hour waiting for right waiting

00:18:27.289 --> 00:18:29.049
for ems to come that's it that's a different

00:18:29.049 --> 00:18:34.190
story but the third thing is the the guy that

00:18:34.190 --> 00:18:37.869
i shot if possible i'm going to render aid to

00:18:37.869 --> 00:18:41.470
him even if he's dead I'm going to render aid

00:18:41.470 --> 00:18:45.150
to him if possible. Because in my mind, and again,

00:18:45.210 --> 00:18:46.930
this isn't legal advice, I don't know if this

00:18:46.930 --> 00:18:49.529
works, but in my mind, when I have to stand before

00:18:49.529 --> 00:18:51.250
a jury of my peers, because I'm going to assume

00:18:51.250 --> 00:18:53.589
that's going to happen, I want to be able to

00:18:53.589 --> 00:18:57.369
say and demonstrate that I did not have murderous

00:18:57.369 --> 00:18:59.990
intent. I didn't go into that encounter with

00:18:59.990 --> 00:19:02.609
the desire to kill anyone. I was trying to stop

00:19:02.609 --> 00:19:04.930
somebody from doing harm to others or myself.

00:19:05.529 --> 00:19:08.309
And hopefully, they're not dead, and I saved

00:19:08.309 --> 00:19:12.160
their life. And then they get to suffer the judicial

00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:15.480
consequences of their actions. But I'm going

00:19:15.480 --> 00:19:18.319
to do everything I can to prevent that person

00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:21.400
from dying. And so by rendering aid first to

00:19:21.400 --> 00:19:23.259
myself to make sure that I can then take care

00:19:23.259 --> 00:19:25.559
of other people and manage the situation, and

00:19:25.559 --> 00:19:28.339
then to the innocent bystanders, but then finally

00:19:28.339 --> 00:19:31.700
to that person, my adversary, I'm going to render

00:19:31.700 --> 00:19:34.059
aid to them as well. I think that's the moral

00:19:34.059 --> 00:19:36.859
thing to do. And it also, like I said, I can

00:19:36.859 --> 00:19:39.769
stand there and honestly say, It was not my intention

00:19:39.769 --> 00:19:42.450
to kill that person. I just wanted to stop them

00:19:42.450 --> 00:19:45.190
from hurting myself or others. And I think that

00:19:45.190 --> 00:19:48.289
a jury, particularly with your training and your

00:19:48.289 --> 00:19:50.990
degree, license, and so forth, they would look

00:19:50.990 --> 00:19:53.369
at you more harshly if you didn't do it. Yeah,

00:19:53.390 --> 00:19:56.809
as long as that person is no longer a threat.

00:19:57.329 --> 00:20:00.690
Yes, absolutely. Make sure that they're disarmed.

00:20:00.849 --> 00:20:04.730
Ideally, again, I'm expecting that I'm in a place

00:20:04.730 --> 00:20:06.869
where the police and EMS are going to be relatively

00:20:06.869 --> 00:20:09.900
close by. Making sure that the scene is safe.

00:20:10.059 --> 00:20:13.039
That's the most important thing in any kind of

00:20:13.039 --> 00:20:16.680
emergency situation. In tactical combat casualty

00:20:16.680 --> 00:20:19.880
care, the first phase is care under fire when

00:20:19.880 --> 00:20:22.640
you're still receiving effective fire from your

00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:26.059
adversary. And we say the best combat medicine

00:20:26.059 --> 00:20:30.279
is fire superiority. So the first thing you want

00:20:30.279 --> 00:20:33.200
to do is control the threat. Whatever the situation

00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:35.069
is, control the threat. threat make sure the

00:20:35.069 --> 00:20:37.589
chainsaw is off make sure the car is not moving

00:20:37.589 --> 00:20:40.549
anymore right whatever the danger is you want

00:20:40.549 --> 00:20:42.309
to secure that make sure it's no longer harming

00:20:42.309 --> 00:20:44.329
your patient and make sure it's not going to

00:20:44.329 --> 00:20:46.150
harm you because whatever hurt them can hurt

00:20:46.150 --> 00:20:49.650
you and you and you mentioned uh you know it

00:20:49.650 --> 00:20:52.269
is also just the christian thing to do or i mean

00:20:52.269 --> 00:20:54.769
probably people of any religion honestly there's

00:20:54.769 --> 00:20:58.089
there's plenty of you know theologically based

00:20:58.700 --> 00:21:02.579
you know, responsibility that goes with not wasting

00:21:02.579 --> 00:21:06.180
a life because, and if you, you know, maybe that

00:21:06.180 --> 00:21:09.369
person, I don't know. We'll have a second chance

00:21:09.369 --> 00:21:11.809
someday and turn into a good person. But I mean,

00:21:11.849 --> 00:21:15.410
at the moment, yeah, you're right. And that is

00:21:15.410 --> 00:21:18.109
the right thing to do. And by the way, dear listeners,

00:21:18.210 --> 00:21:20.930
keep in mind that neither Ken or I are lawyers

00:21:20.930 --> 00:21:25.029
either. And everything on this show is simply

00:21:25.029 --> 00:21:27.549
opinion and discussion and is not meant as legal

00:21:27.549 --> 00:21:30.269
advice. But I think everyone knows that. At least

00:21:30.269 --> 00:21:32.869
we've said it enough times. So going, okay, so

00:21:32.869 --> 00:21:37.250
stemming off that comment, Dr. Onifer. Let's

00:21:37.250 --> 00:21:39.309
talk about you said that people maybe have equipment

00:21:39.309 --> 00:21:41.450
because they were issued it. But then again,

00:21:41.529 --> 00:21:43.970
these are guys who also have some training. I

00:21:43.970 --> 00:21:46.470
carry a tourniquet in my computer bag everywhere

00:21:46.470 --> 00:21:48.849
I go. I'm the only person I know who does that.

00:21:49.990 --> 00:21:54.309
But the amount of tomorrow I'm taking my two

00:21:54.309 --> 00:21:58.529
hundred dollar eight hour required course to

00:21:58.529 --> 00:22:01.549
renew my CCW in California. And let's not get

00:22:01.549 --> 00:22:05.500
started. Yes, $200. And that's before the ammunition

00:22:05.500 --> 00:22:07.460
cost. Every two years. You're required to do

00:22:07.460 --> 00:22:10.099
it every two years. Yeah, every two years so

00:22:10.099 --> 00:22:12.160
that I can spend a bunch of money to exercise

00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:17.200
a freedom. That's a separate topic. But I will

00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:20.019
tell you that in aggregate, the amount that I

00:22:20.019 --> 00:22:23.039
have spent on medical training. is probably not

00:22:23.039 --> 00:22:26.039
more than that in my life and as ken just said

00:22:26.039 --> 00:22:28.720
we have to do this every two years in california

00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:31.380
so how many people of walking around with what

00:22:31.380 --> 00:22:32.880
they think is a good tourniquet and maybe they

00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:35.119
got it off amazon it probably isn't that good

00:22:35.119 --> 00:22:38.380
um maybe a bandage or two and they think they're

00:22:38.380 --> 00:22:41.140
good but they have no training right how many

00:22:41.140 --> 00:22:43.319
people have gone to the effort of actually getting

00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:47.529
the training who aren't required to get it They've

00:22:47.529 --> 00:22:50.650
done it not as part of a military organization

00:22:50.650 --> 00:22:53.990
that requires a certain amount. Just average

00:22:53.990 --> 00:22:58.450
guy, civilian, who is a gun enthusiast, maybe

00:22:58.450 --> 00:23:01.569
has his tourniquet. How many of those people

00:23:01.569 --> 00:23:06.569
have gotten training? Probably very few. So since

00:23:06.569 --> 00:23:10.289
the Stop the Bleed campaign has started, that

00:23:10.289 --> 00:23:14.390
number continues to go up. Now, so a little bit

00:23:14.390 --> 00:23:19.079
of history. 1996. September of 1996 is when Captain

00:23:19.079 --> 00:23:24.539
Frank Butler, who was the SOCOM surgeon, the

00:23:24.539 --> 00:23:27.720
Special Operations Command surgeon, the senior

00:23:27.720 --> 00:23:30.019
medical officer for all special operations in

00:23:30.019 --> 00:23:33.339
the U .S. military, wrote an article called Tactical

00:23:33.339 --> 00:23:37.279
Combat Casualty Care in Special Operations. And

00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:43.140
so that article said tourniquets first. Because

00:23:43.140 --> 00:23:47.440
up until that point, it was... Direct pressure,

00:23:47.579 --> 00:23:50.700
elevation, pressure points, and tourniquets as

00:23:50.700 --> 00:23:55.799
a last resort. And Frank looked at the data.

00:23:56.000 --> 00:23:58.420
He and several other people looked at the data

00:23:58.420 --> 00:24:01.500
and said, you know, these are preventable deaths.

00:24:01.779 --> 00:24:04.920
We looked at mostly Vietnam data and said these

00:24:04.920 --> 00:24:06.740
are preventable deaths and tourniquets could

00:24:06.740 --> 00:24:08.319
have saved these people's lives. And that was

00:24:08.319 --> 00:24:13.599
literally and figuratively life -changing. It

00:24:13.599 --> 00:24:18.099
took probably... 15 years, maybe we'll say 10

00:24:18.099 --> 00:24:20.240
years for that to start to really gain traction.

00:24:20.440 --> 00:24:23.200
And the big thing that drove that was GWAT, right?

00:24:23.240 --> 00:24:29.000
Once we started engaging in regular combat operations

00:24:29.000 --> 00:24:32.000
and people were starting to get injured and bleed,

00:24:32.279 --> 00:24:37.779
it became increasingly recognized that this stuff

00:24:37.779 --> 00:24:42.299
really works, right? So that has taken time to

00:24:42.299 --> 00:24:46.259
filter through into the civilian. into the civilian

00:24:46.259 --> 00:24:49.619
medical world. So again, the Boston Marathon

00:24:49.619 --> 00:24:53.400
bombing, those two brothers that were involved

00:24:53.400 --> 00:24:58.720
in that, they were in a shootout with some Boston

00:24:58.720 --> 00:25:01.259
police. One of the police officers, I think I

00:25:01.259 --> 00:25:04.259
have this story correct. One of the police officers

00:25:04.259 --> 00:25:06.500
was shot and was bleeding and a bystander who

00:25:06.500 --> 00:25:09.480
had prior military training applied a tourniquet

00:25:09.480 --> 00:25:11.839
and the dispatcher told them to take the tourniquet

00:25:11.839 --> 00:25:16.160
off. and that police officer died. So because

00:25:16.160 --> 00:25:18.720
at that time, there's still, there's a lot of

00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:21.059
people who think like tourniquets are bad. And

00:25:21.059 --> 00:25:24.079
if you don't need a tourniquet and you decide

00:25:24.079 --> 00:25:26.700
to leave it on for, you know, six or 12 hours,

00:25:26.839 --> 00:25:29.819
yes, it is bad. But when you're bleeding out

00:25:29.819 --> 00:25:33.500
from an extremity injury and you're only going

00:25:33.500 --> 00:25:35.480
to have it on until you get to the hospital and

00:25:35.480 --> 00:25:37.200
you get to surgery and they can fix that, then

00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:39.319
it is absolutely life -saving. You've got minutes.

00:25:40.140 --> 00:25:42.640
If you've got a significant arterial bleed, you've

00:25:42.640 --> 00:25:45.160
got minutes before you can go into hemorrhagic

00:25:45.160 --> 00:25:51.940
shock and die. So I think it's getting traction

00:25:51.940 --> 00:25:56.220
that people are recognizing the need for that

00:25:56.220 --> 00:25:58.079
kind of care. And there's been a lot of exposure

00:25:58.079 --> 00:26:00.420
in movies and things like that. There's been

00:26:00.420 --> 00:26:04.460
a lot of press that has shown people surviving

00:26:04.460 --> 00:26:07.390
because of tourniquets. And the Rangers in particular,

00:26:07.450 --> 00:26:08.970
Rangers are great. You tell them to do something

00:26:08.970 --> 00:26:10.450
and they're going to do it. Right. And so the

00:26:10.450 --> 00:26:12.730
Rangers demonstrated this. They had the lowest

00:26:12.730 --> 00:26:18.730
combat casualty rate of died of wounds rate in

00:26:18.730 --> 00:26:20.789
all of recorded military history. It's like one

00:26:20.789 --> 00:26:23.470
point eight percent, because from the top on

00:26:23.470 --> 00:26:25.329
down, I think this was General McChrystal was

00:26:25.329 --> 00:26:27.309
in charge of the Rangers. He said, everybody

00:26:27.309 --> 00:26:29.849
is going to know tactical combat casualty care.

00:26:30.109 --> 00:26:32.890
And this is my leadership priority. And so everybody

00:26:32.890 --> 00:26:35.160
knew how to do it. And the Rangers have really

00:26:35.160 --> 00:26:37.059
led the way on it. And so they went to Afghanistan

00:26:37.059 --> 00:26:40.400
and they saved a lot of lives because they did

00:26:40.400 --> 00:26:42.799
it. And that really proved to everyone that,

00:26:42.839 --> 00:26:46.420
okay, this stuff really works. And again, some

00:26:46.420 --> 00:26:48.740
people will push back and say, well, this isn't

00:26:48.740 --> 00:26:51.380
combat. Your blood doesn't know the difference.

00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:56.099
No. Right? Your cardiovascular system and your

00:26:56.099 --> 00:26:57.859
brain and your heart don't know the difference

00:26:57.859 --> 00:27:01.039
about what is making all of the blood go on the

00:27:01.039 --> 00:27:04.259
ground. It just knows that it doesn't have any

00:27:04.259 --> 00:27:07.440
more blood and that doesn't like it. And so,

00:27:07.440 --> 00:27:10.579
you know, if you can control bleeding through

00:27:10.579 --> 00:27:13.940
a less drastic measure, great, then you probably

00:27:13.940 --> 00:27:16.359
don't need a tourniquet. But I would rather put

00:27:16.359 --> 00:27:19.160
the tourniquet on first and get that bleeding

00:27:19.160 --> 00:27:21.480
under control and then reassess later when I've

00:27:21.480 --> 00:27:24.420
determined that I don't need it. And again, also

00:27:24.420 --> 00:27:27.619
considering this in the context of I can make

00:27:27.619 --> 00:27:29.759
a 911 call and I expect an ambulance to arrive

00:27:29.759 --> 00:27:34.349
in, you know, 10 or 15 minutes. So given that,

00:27:34.390 --> 00:27:37.470
you did talk percentages earlier about the likelihood

00:27:37.470 --> 00:27:40.329
of being able to save a life and so on. Did those

00:27:40.329 --> 00:27:44.690
numbers accrue to amateurs and untrained people?

00:27:44.910 --> 00:27:47.369
Or did those numbers accrue only to medical professionals

00:27:47.369 --> 00:27:50.349
in terms of your probability of saving a life

00:27:50.349 --> 00:27:52.750
if you really don't have training? And I guess

00:27:52.750 --> 00:27:55.859
as a side topic. how many people who have some

00:27:55.859 --> 00:27:58.859
training, it just is gone when they need it because

00:27:58.859 --> 00:28:00.920
they're under stress and they just forget all

00:28:00.920 --> 00:28:04.460
their training. Sure. So there, yeah. So there's

00:28:04.460 --> 00:28:06.240
a couple of things there. So unfortunately there's,

00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:08.960
there's not really good data to tell me who's

00:28:08.960 --> 00:28:11.500
doing it and how and how well they're doing it.

00:28:14.019 --> 00:28:15.920
There's, you know, and sometimes there's a concern

00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:18.099
of will a, will a lay person, will a bystander

00:28:18.099 --> 00:28:22.420
cause more harm than benefit? You know, look,

00:28:22.480 --> 00:28:25.319
look back to CPR. If you check and that person

00:28:25.319 --> 00:28:27.660
doesn't have a pulse, you check they don't have

00:28:27.660 --> 00:28:29.599
a carotid pulse, they're not breathing, they're

00:28:29.599 --> 00:28:35.000
unresponsive, well, you've got enough evidence

00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:37.960
to make a treatment decision. If you've got nothing

00:28:37.960 --> 00:28:39.700
else, because if you start pumping on their chest

00:28:39.700 --> 00:28:41.660
and they jump up and say, leave me alone, then

00:28:41.660 --> 00:28:47.059
you know to stop. And if you've got somebody...

00:28:47.609 --> 00:28:49.509
who's laying there on the ground unconscious

00:28:49.509 --> 00:28:51.829
in a pool of blood, and you can identify where

00:28:51.829 --> 00:28:53.650
that bleeding is coming from, and you can stop

00:28:53.650 --> 00:28:56.029
that bleeding. You're saving their life. All

00:28:56.029 --> 00:29:01.049
states have good Samaritan laws. I would encourage

00:29:01.049 --> 00:29:03.230
your listeners to check the good Samaritan laws

00:29:03.230 --> 00:29:06.029
in their state to see if there's any particular...

00:29:06.029 --> 00:29:08.109
I said, you live in the People's Republic of

00:29:08.109 --> 00:29:11.150
California, so I don't know what they have there.

00:29:11.470 --> 00:29:14.029
Here in America, most other states are going

00:29:14.029 --> 00:29:15.750
to be nice to you if you try and help your neighbor.

00:29:16.269 --> 00:29:24.289
I'm being a little sarcastic. But your Good Samaritan

00:29:24.289 --> 00:29:26.410
laws are going to protect you from liability.

00:29:27.170 --> 00:29:29.029
But the likelihood that you're going to hurt

00:29:29.029 --> 00:29:34.609
somebody worse than them dying is probably pretty

00:29:34.609 --> 00:29:40.769
small. So I'm less concerned about the layperson

00:29:40.769 --> 00:29:45.539
who's not well -trained. not doing it correctly

00:29:45.539 --> 00:29:48.599
i'm less concerned about that than i am about

00:29:48.599 --> 00:29:51.000
somebody not doing anything at all and and then

00:29:51.000 --> 00:29:55.279
a victim you know bleeding to death the the other

00:29:55.279 --> 00:29:57.819
question is you know the the importance of training

00:29:57.819 --> 00:30:00.880
right obviously i'm going to tell you that it's

00:30:00.880 --> 00:30:04.819
it's important to train um and you know when

00:30:04.819 --> 00:30:06.740
we talk about later on we talk about different

00:30:06.740 --> 00:30:08.480
kinds of equipment there's some equipment that

00:30:08.480 --> 00:30:11.940
is easier to use than others and and makes the

00:30:11.940 --> 00:30:15.539
training I won't say less necessary, but it's

00:30:15.539 --> 00:30:17.720
not as critical for you to be as well trained

00:30:17.720 --> 00:30:20.680
on it because the device itself is set up to

00:30:20.680 --> 00:30:24.480
help you. But like anything else in a crisis

00:30:24.480 --> 00:30:27.200
situation, you're going to react the way you

00:30:27.200 --> 00:30:28.700
train. And if you've never trained to do anything,

00:30:28.859 --> 00:30:31.180
you're not going to do anything. Or if you've

00:30:31.180 --> 00:30:36.480
trained to do wrong things, whereas every time

00:30:36.480 --> 00:30:39.799
you go to the range, as soon as you empty your

00:30:39.799 --> 00:30:43.240
magazine, you do a speed reload. and then holster

00:30:43.240 --> 00:30:46.160
your weapon, and then pick up your brass because

00:30:46.160 --> 00:30:49.220
you've got to keep the range clean, chances are

00:30:49.220 --> 00:30:51.200
good that when you're in a gunfight, you might

00:30:51.200 --> 00:30:53.359
do that. You might holster your weapon while

00:30:53.359 --> 00:30:56.339
getting shot at to pick up brass. Nobody's thinking

00:30:56.339 --> 00:30:58.740
about, I need to clean up the range. But for

00:30:58.740 --> 00:31:00.740
the last 150 times that you went through that

00:31:00.740 --> 00:31:03.119
drill, that's what you did, and that's what you

00:31:03.119 --> 00:31:06.440
will just do. So it's important for us to practice.

00:31:07.240 --> 00:31:10.539
One quick caveat. Or a point that I'll make is

00:31:10.539 --> 00:31:12.400
if you're going to practice with a tourniquet,

00:31:12.440 --> 00:31:14.559
which I recommend, you really want to have a

00:31:14.559 --> 00:31:17.579
tourniquet. You want to have a training tourniquet.

00:31:17.799 --> 00:31:20.400
You don't want your life -saving tourniquet to

00:31:20.400 --> 00:31:22.380
be the one that you've practiced on 10 or 20

00:31:22.380 --> 00:31:26.319
times because you can cause degradation of the

00:31:26.319 --> 00:31:28.720
material and increase the risk of tourniquet

00:31:28.720 --> 00:31:31.740
failure. I would rather keep my life -saving

00:31:31.740 --> 00:31:34.599
tourniquet separate and unplayed with and then

00:31:34.599 --> 00:31:38.269
have one that I use for training. So I'm going

00:31:38.269 --> 00:31:41.309
to ask kind of the opposite question then. How

00:31:41.309 --> 00:31:46.869
many people who have a modicum of either training

00:31:46.869 --> 00:31:49.289
or at least awareness have a modicum of equipment

00:31:49.289 --> 00:31:52.410
actually make things worse? Does that really

00:31:52.410 --> 00:31:54.549
happen in the real world? Like they try to help

00:31:54.549 --> 00:31:57.329
and they actually made it worse? I look for data

00:31:57.329 --> 00:32:01.150
on that. I did some searching in the medical

00:32:01.150 --> 00:32:03.109
literature and then I talked to my favorite AI

00:32:03.109 --> 00:32:06.240
search engine. and there are no real numbers

00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:09.519
on that so it's it's statistically it's probably

00:32:09.519 --> 00:32:13.099
it probably exists doesn't matter yeah yeah it

00:32:13.099 --> 00:32:16.460
probably exists but again the the harm that you

00:32:16.460 --> 00:32:19.380
might cause in saving someone's life is far less

00:32:19.380 --> 00:32:21.539
than the harm of them of you not saving their

00:32:21.539 --> 00:32:23.720
life and them dying well yeah and the reason

00:32:23.720 --> 00:32:26.940
i asked that question is i think that look i'm

00:32:26.940 --> 00:32:29.940
ken and i are both super squeamish right i mean

00:32:29.940 --> 00:32:33.549
side of blood dude likelihood of me fainting

00:32:33.549 --> 00:32:37.609
is really high. I mean, and maybe that's actually

00:32:37.609 --> 00:32:40.430
another point, which is how likely are people

00:32:40.430 --> 00:32:43.029
just to basically go into shock or switch off

00:32:43.029 --> 00:32:44.410
when they're trying to render aid because they

00:32:44.410 --> 00:32:46.529
can't deal with it. Maybe the shock comes later.

00:32:46.769 --> 00:32:50.730
But my thought is that, you know, your likelihood

00:32:50.730 --> 00:32:55.650
of helping someone so far outweighs the risk

00:32:55.650 --> 00:32:58.470
of damage. And I think people, I want to sweep

00:32:58.470 --> 00:33:01.349
aside the idea that they're afraid to help. Yeah,

00:33:01.369 --> 00:33:03.609
and Craig, I've actually got an example of this.

00:33:03.609 --> 00:33:06.670
I am, you know, blood is not my thing, and that's

00:33:06.670 --> 00:33:08.289
one of the reasons I never went into the medical

00:33:08.289 --> 00:33:11.130
field. However, I was out in my front yard about

00:33:11.130 --> 00:33:14.250
10 years ago, and an 85 -year -old lady across

00:33:14.250 --> 00:33:18.750
the street trips, falls, and rips open her, I

00:33:18.750 --> 00:33:21.730
don't know, the temporal artery next to the side

00:33:21.730 --> 00:33:24.750
of your right eye socket someplace. Yep, temporal

00:33:24.750 --> 00:33:27.710
artery. Yep, and she's squirting all over the

00:33:27.710 --> 00:33:32.089
place, okay? This is not my thing, okay? And

00:33:32.089 --> 00:33:35.470
real quick, Ken, you don't want to use a tourniquet

00:33:35.470 --> 00:33:39.069
there. No, you do not. No, I knew that. Hey,

00:33:39.190 --> 00:33:41.670
neck tourniquets are very effective at stopping

00:33:41.670 --> 00:33:45.549
bleeding. But there are some treatment consequences.

00:33:45.549 --> 00:33:48.069
Some side things, yes. So I remember putting

00:33:48.069 --> 00:33:50.710
left and right hand, clamping my hands together

00:33:50.710 --> 00:33:53.869
on each side of her temples, both sides, and

00:33:53.869 --> 00:33:56.430
holding them together as tight as I could. And

00:33:56.430 --> 00:34:00.230
then asking the other person, call 911 right

00:34:00.230 --> 00:34:02.309
away. And the fire department was great. They

00:34:02.309 --> 00:34:04.849
showed up with the paramedics in about six, seven

00:34:04.849 --> 00:34:07.150
minutes. That was great. I was holding it on

00:34:07.150 --> 00:34:11.210
there. I'm all now covered in blood myself. And

00:34:11.210 --> 00:34:13.630
then as soon as it turned, The paramedics were

00:34:13.630 --> 00:34:15.670
there. I said, look, guys, it's a squirter, you

00:34:15.670 --> 00:34:17.670
know. And they go, what do you mean? And I said,

00:34:17.710 --> 00:34:19.690
look, when I take my hand off here, you're going

00:34:19.690 --> 00:34:22.829
to know. And sure enough, then they took over

00:34:22.829 --> 00:34:25.190
and I said, thank you very much. And I walked

00:34:25.190 --> 00:34:27.750
back across the street to my house, washed my

00:34:27.750 --> 00:34:31.050
hands, and I had to sit down because this is

00:34:31.050 --> 00:34:34.210
not my thing. And I go, I don't want to move

00:34:34.210 --> 00:34:37.489
for like 20 or 30 minutes. This is not my thing.

00:34:37.730 --> 00:34:40.150
But I did what I needed to do in the situation.

00:34:41.190 --> 00:34:43.130
And I felt proud about that. Yeah, absolutely.

00:34:43.489 --> 00:34:46.130
I think, you know, I would like to think that

00:34:46.130 --> 00:34:52.250
the majority of people are going to try and help

00:34:52.250 --> 00:34:57.809
another person who is in need. And, right, if

00:34:57.809 --> 00:35:01.429
you've got a little bit of training and you understand

00:35:01.429 --> 00:35:04.489
what is the right thing to do, what's the correct

00:35:04.489 --> 00:35:06.289
thing, I don't mean morally right, but the technically

00:35:06.289 --> 00:35:09.469
correct thing to do. you're far more likely to

00:35:09.469 --> 00:35:12.329
do it than if you've never entertained that thought,

00:35:12.449 --> 00:35:14.030
you've never practiced with it, you've never

00:35:14.030 --> 00:35:18.110
seen it. And so, you know, so where do I get

00:35:18.110 --> 00:35:20.110
that training, right? Like the American Red Cross

00:35:20.110 --> 00:35:24.050
does first aid classes. Sometimes your YMCA will

00:35:24.050 --> 00:35:26.110
do first aid classes. Sometimes your local fire

00:35:26.110 --> 00:35:28.650
department will do first aid classes. You can

00:35:28.650 --> 00:35:31.969
look, you know, in your community and see what

00:35:31.969 --> 00:35:34.739
organizations. But the Stop the Bleed campaign,

00:35:35.019 --> 00:35:37.159
if you go to the Stop the Bleed website, you

00:35:37.159 --> 00:35:39.079
can search for classes. And a lot of those are

00:35:39.079 --> 00:35:42.099
free. There will be people who do the Stop the

00:35:42.099 --> 00:35:45.639
Bleed classes for free. You can purchase the

00:35:45.639 --> 00:35:51.460
equipment from them or another place. But the

00:35:51.460 --> 00:35:57.920
training is available. I encourage, like when

00:35:57.920 --> 00:36:01.079
we were at SHOT Show. I encourage everybody that

00:36:01.079 --> 00:36:03.920
I talk to that owned a gun range or a gun store

00:36:03.920 --> 00:36:08.659
and people that teach like they're shooting instructors.

00:36:08.719 --> 00:36:10.639
And especially if they're teaching concealed

00:36:10.639 --> 00:36:16.119
carry, I encourage them to consider bringing

00:36:16.119 --> 00:36:18.820
a stop the bleed course as part of their, you

00:36:18.820 --> 00:36:20.519
know, as part of the training that they offer.

00:36:21.119 --> 00:36:23.849
And, you know, Obviously, some of this is business,

00:36:23.949 --> 00:36:25.829
right? Because we sell medical stuff. So I want

00:36:25.829 --> 00:36:28.210
you to sell my medical stuff. But I think it's

00:36:28.210 --> 00:36:30.309
important for people to at least have the opportunity

00:36:30.309 --> 00:36:33.610
to purchase good, reliable, safe medical equipment.

00:36:33.929 --> 00:36:36.250
Because like you mentioned, Craig, you can go

00:36:36.250 --> 00:36:40.289
and buy four tourniquets for $17 or $18 on Amazon

00:36:40.289 --> 00:36:44.409
and they're crap. They are 3D printed in an adversarial

00:36:44.409 --> 00:36:47.570
country. They're not quality equipment. They

00:36:47.570 --> 00:36:49.869
will fail. I would not trust my life to them.

00:36:50.349 --> 00:36:53.929
And if a person needed to, well, if they felt

00:36:53.929 --> 00:36:56.550
the need to get maybe a little bit more training,

00:36:56.690 --> 00:36:59.469
let's say I want to use hemostatic gauze or a

00:36:59.469 --> 00:37:01.389
chest seal or something like that, that maybe

00:37:01.389 --> 00:37:03.429
is outside the boundaries of the stop the bleed,

00:37:03.550 --> 00:37:07.610
you know, training and equipment. If they want

00:37:07.610 --> 00:37:09.809
to go that next level, I'm assuming that there

00:37:09.809 --> 00:37:11.769
are probably plenty of resources that would give

00:37:11.769 --> 00:37:13.730
you that as well. Because like, for example,

00:37:13.730 --> 00:37:16.030
I've heard the hemostatic gauze is almost as

00:37:16.030 --> 00:37:18.730
problematic misused as it would be if you didn't

00:37:18.730 --> 00:37:22.760
use it in the first place. I'm not sure about

00:37:22.760 --> 00:37:25.460
that. I've not heard that. I do know that packing

00:37:25.460 --> 00:37:28.360
a wound, being trained how to pack a wound, is

00:37:28.360 --> 00:37:32.300
part of the Stop the Bleed campaign. So you can,

00:37:32.500 --> 00:37:36.780
in extremis, in an emergency situation, if you've

00:37:36.780 --> 00:37:38.860
got nothing else, I'm going to rip up your shirt

00:37:38.860 --> 00:37:40.619
and I'm going to stuff that wound. Because we

00:37:40.619 --> 00:37:45.079
say you need to fill the bowl. Now, in most of

00:37:45.079 --> 00:37:49.989
your civilian encounters, you're probably talking

00:37:49.989 --> 00:37:56.250
about handguns, maybe shotguns, so we'll assume

00:37:56.250 --> 00:38:00.949
not slugs, but you're not going to have the same

00:38:00.949 --> 00:38:03.409
sort of tissue damage that you would get with

00:38:03.409 --> 00:38:05.949
a high -velocity rifle round, right? Something

00:38:05.949 --> 00:38:09.059
that's... Like multiple times the speed of sound,

00:38:09.119 --> 00:38:11.500
like 2 ,000 or 3 ,000 feet per second, like an

00:38:11.500 --> 00:38:16.179
AR -15 or an AK -47. It causes a large cavitation

00:38:16.179 --> 00:38:20.119
event. Yeah. Those smaller bullets are really

00:38:20.119 --> 00:38:23.380
slower bullets. That's the issue. It's the speed

00:38:23.380 --> 00:38:26.239
more than the size when it comes to the cavitation.

00:38:27.480 --> 00:38:29.739
They're going to cause a lot less tissue trauma.

00:38:29.980 --> 00:38:32.920
You're going to get a lot less, probably get

00:38:32.920 --> 00:38:36.639
a lot less cavitation. And so you can pack that

00:38:36.639 --> 00:38:42.280
wound easier. Packing a wound in somebody is

00:38:42.280 --> 00:38:44.880
going to be painful to that person, right? So,

00:38:44.880 --> 00:38:46.539
I mean, that's just a thing to consider, but

00:38:46.539 --> 00:38:48.320
that's the important thing that you need to do.

00:38:48.360 --> 00:38:53.119
If you don't have a tourniquet or you don't think

00:38:53.119 --> 00:38:55.199
the bleeding is bad enough that it needs a tourniquet

00:38:55.199 --> 00:38:56.900
but they're still bleeding, then you've got to

00:38:56.900 --> 00:38:59.320
pack the wound. You've got to fill that cavity

00:38:59.320 --> 00:39:04.159
so that you can apply proper pressure. Or hopefully

00:39:04.159 --> 00:39:06.619
you've got a hemostatic dressing where you're

00:39:06.619 --> 00:39:08.239
going to have some sort of chemical reaction

00:39:08.239 --> 00:39:11.320
with the blood or the tissue that's going to

00:39:11.320 --> 00:39:14.219
create the clot for you. Okay, so Dr. Onufar,

00:39:14.260 --> 00:39:18.019
in the pre -show discussion, you had mentioned

00:39:18.019 --> 00:39:23.300
that Stop the Bleed had a correlation to, even

00:39:23.300 --> 00:39:26.000
though Stop the Bleed month is May, you said

00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:28.619
it ought to be March. And I guess that is also

00:39:28.619 --> 00:39:31.599
an acronym for something. Can you explain that,

00:39:31.639 --> 00:39:35.960
please? Sure. So with tactical combat casualty

00:39:35.960 --> 00:39:39.400
care, which Stop the Bleed grew out of, the acronym

00:39:39.400 --> 00:39:42.159
we use is MARCH. Those are your initial life

00:39:42.159 --> 00:39:44.800
-saving steps. So M is massive external hemorrhage.

00:39:45.219 --> 00:39:48.300
That needs to be treated with a tourniquet. So

00:39:48.300 --> 00:39:52.039
massive external hemorrhage. A is airway, making

00:39:52.039 --> 00:39:55.420
sure that the patient can breathe. R is respirations.

00:39:56.059 --> 00:39:57.940
And the injury that we're typically taking care

00:39:57.940 --> 00:40:00.579
of there is a sucking chest wound and really

00:40:00.579 --> 00:40:04.519
a tension pneumothorax. So we can talk more about

00:40:04.519 --> 00:40:09.420
those two things later. C is circulation. So

00:40:09.420 --> 00:40:11.820
that's where I'm going to start replacing blood

00:40:11.820 --> 00:40:16.000
that you've lost. And then H is head injuries

00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:18.440
and hypothermia. Initially it was just hypothermia.

00:40:18.559 --> 00:40:21.519
And then, you know, we rolled H's in head injuries

00:40:21.519 --> 00:40:25.000
as well. So hypothermia, low body temperature.

00:40:25.690 --> 00:40:31.530
is a big deal in trauma. It's part of a collection

00:40:31.530 --> 00:40:34.670
of things that happen to your body that can cause

00:40:34.670 --> 00:40:41.909
severe injury and death. So March, when we talk

00:40:41.909 --> 00:40:45.929
TC3, Tactical Combat Casualty Care, when you

00:40:45.929 --> 00:40:48.050
say March and TC3, those are kind of synonymous

00:40:48.050 --> 00:40:52.360
for those of us that do this thing. You may see

00:40:52.360 --> 00:40:55.500
other acronyms. Some people will say C -A -B

00:40:55.500 --> 00:41:01.039
-C or X -A -B -C, but it's basically March. It's

00:41:01.039 --> 00:41:03.219
basically the same thing. X would be external

00:41:03.219 --> 00:41:05.480
hemorrhage. C would be control the bleeding,

00:41:05.679 --> 00:41:10.579
whatever. But that's why I said stop the bleed

00:41:10.579 --> 00:41:12.659
month should be March, not May. I don't know

00:41:12.659 --> 00:41:15.039
why they made it May. Yeah, and as you were talking,

00:41:15.119 --> 00:41:17.440
I was trying to come up with an acronym for May,

00:41:17.579 --> 00:41:19.619
and I was struggling with that. The only thing

00:41:19.619 --> 00:41:23.699
I got was, The why, which would be, yo, sucker's

00:41:23.699 --> 00:41:30.880
dead. And that was about it. So now if people

00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:32.619
want to, you know, they're invigorated and they

00:41:32.619 --> 00:41:35.019
want to go get themselves a kit, but we don't

00:41:35.019 --> 00:41:37.079
know what a kit looks like. And by the way, I

00:41:37.079 --> 00:41:40.199
will mention to our listeners that Frugal Firearms

00:41:40.199 --> 00:41:44.039
podcast has some rules for our guests. Rule number

00:41:44.039 --> 00:41:49.070
seven is that. You have to allow us to become

00:41:49.070 --> 00:41:51.570
familiar with a product that we're going to be

00:41:51.570 --> 00:41:55.929
discussing because, A, talking about a product

00:41:55.929 --> 00:41:58.650
that we have no knowledge of is unethical. And,

00:41:58.690 --> 00:42:00.710
B, we can't have a very intelligent conversation

00:42:00.710 --> 00:42:03.750
about something if we're simply not familiar

00:42:03.750 --> 00:42:07.170
with it. So nothing on this show is ever products

00:42:07.170 --> 00:42:10.800
that we're unfamiliar with. kind of stepped aside

00:42:10.800 --> 00:42:13.039
from that one in this case because ken and i

00:42:13.039 --> 00:42:15.760
were discussing and you know i would love to

00:42:15.760 --> 00:42:18.280
have taken some of rescue essentials equipment

00:42:18.280 --> 00:42:21.969
and tried it out on ken but he wasn't volunteering

00:42:21.969 --> 00:42:25.510
willing to get shot no no the chest seals the

00:42:25.510 --> 00:42:28.710
hemostatic gauze the tourniquets none of it he

00:42:28.710 --> 00:42:31.489
wasn't signing up for any of this and i i think

00:42:31.489 --> 00:42:33.949
he's derelict in in his responsibilities as a

00:42:33.949 --> 00:42:37.110
show host for not volunteering thusly but no

00:42:37.110 --> 00:42:40.289
we did not test rescue essentials gear prior

00:42:40.289 --> 00:42:41.989
to you coming on this show because we couldn't

00:42:41.989 --> 00:42:44.289
find an adequate volunteer and i wasn't doing

00:42:44.289 --> 00:42:48.590
myself yes but um so doctor what do you think

00:42:48.590 --> 00:42:52.150
you know What's a reasonable based on cost and

00:42:52.150 --> 00:42:55.010
based on volume? Because if it's too big a kit,

00:42:55.090 --> 00:42:57.730
people ain't carrying it. What would you recommend?

00:42:57.929 --> 00:43:00.030
And maybe prioritize that. Like if you're going

00:43:00.030 --> 00:43:01.909
to carry one thing, carry this. And then if the

00:43:01.909 --> 00:43:05.050
kit expands, you get more stuff. Sure. Yeah.

00:43:05.750 --> 00:43:08.369
So if you've got one thing to carry, it's a tourniquet.

00:43:09.789 --> 00:43:15.989
That is the thing that is most likely going to

00:43:15.989 --> 00:43:21.039
save someone. from bleeding to death in any kind

00:43:21.039 --> 00:43:24.719
of traumatic emergency right um and when i say

00:43:24.719 --> 00:43:26.619
tourniquet i mean a limb tourniquet right so

00:43:26.619 --> 00:43:29.340
bleeding from the extremities arms and legs if

00:43:29.340 --> 00:43:32.059
you've got if if you're bleeding from your abdomen

00:43:32.059 --> 00:43:35.500
or your chest that's a whole lot harder to fix

00:43:35.500 --> 00:43:39.449
we in the medical profession combat medics and

00:43:39.449 --> 00:43:41.809
doctors and PAs that go in the field with combat

00:43:41.809 --> 00:43:44.050
troops, we have a tough time controlling those

00:43:44.050 --> 00:43:47.190
things. So I'm not expecting anybody to do that.

00:43:48.210 --> 00:43:51.090
But extremity hemorrhage, which that's part of

00:43:51.090 --> 00:43:53.269
what we consider preventable death, a tourniquet

00:43:53.269 --> 00:43:56.329
is the first most important thing for you to

00:43:56.329 --> 00:43:59.670
have. So again, thinking about this in the March

00:43:59.670 --> 00:44:01.849
algorithm. Actually, let me take a quick step

00:44:01.849 --> 00:44:04.849
back because one of the other things when you

00:44:04.849 --> 00:44:06.889
ask like, okay, what kind of equipment should

00:44:06.889 --> 00:44:10.150
I have? I think about three things in particular.

00:44:10.309 --> 00:44:13.469
One, what's my population at risk, right? So

00:44:13.469 --> 00:44:16.690
who are the people that are going to potentially

00:44:16.690 --> 00:44:20.750
be injured? How many of them, right? That's the

00:44:20.750 --> 00:44:23.230
thing I want to think about. What kind of health

00:44:23.230 --> 00:44:25.510
risks do I have? In this particular situation,

00:44:25.750 --> 00:44:28.250
right, these are my general rules. In this particular

00:44:28.250 --> 00:44:30.650
situation, I'm first and foremost worried about

00:44:30.650 --> 00:44:33.190
me, right? I'm worried about me getting shot

00:44:33.190 --> 00:44:36.929
or hurt, and I need to save my own life. And

00:44:36.929 --> 00:44:40.389
so that's the first thing. So what's my population

00:44:40.389 --> 00:44:43.309
at risk? My next question is, what are those

00:44:43.309 --> 00:44:45.550
hazards? What are the hazards that this person,

00:44:45.630 --> 00:44:48.289
and this is when you're building any medical

00:44:48.289 --> 00:44:50.710
kit, right? Or any emergency kit, right? These

00:44:50.710 --> 00:44:52.449
are the things that I think about. So what are

00:44:52.449 --> 00:44:54.010
the hazards or the threats? What are the things

00:44:54.010 --> 00:44:55.510
that I'm worried about? And again, in this situation,

00:44:55.730 --> 00:44:57.889
I'm worried about high velocity metal. I'm worried

00:44:57.889 --> 00:45:01.650
about a bullet or a fragment, like piercing my

00:45:01.650 --> 00:45:04.619
body and making me bleed. And then the third

00:45:04.619 --> 00:45:07.179
thing is, what is your capability? What's your

00:45:07.179 --> 00:45:10.719
level of training? And what can you do? So it

00:45:10.719 --> 00:45:13.940
would be foolish for me to recommend a medical

00:45:13.940 --> 00:45:18.659
device that you've never been trained on or a

00:45:18.659 --> 00:45:24.119
medical device that requires a specially trained

00:45:24.119 --> 00:45:26.800
medical person to use. So I would not recommend

00:45:26.800 --> 00:45:30.179
that any one of your listeners, I would recommend

00:45:30.179 --> 00:45:33.679
against. any of your listeners who don't have

00:45:33.679 --> 00:45:37.239
specific medical training carrying a needle for

00:45:37.239 --> 00:45:40.059
needle decompression of a chest injury, right?

00:45:40.099 --> 00:45:42.559
That's an invasive medical procedure that has

00:45:42.559 --> 00:45:45.579
significant risks if you do it wrong. I don't

00:45:45.579 --> 00:45:47.980
know if good Samaritan laws would cover you.

00:45:48.099 --> 00:45:50.679
So I would, I would not recommend that anybody

00:45:50.679 --> 00:45:53.539
carry one of those unless they have been trained,

00:45:53.579 --> 00:45:56.900
like they're an EMT or a paramedic, but a battle

00:45:56.900 --> 00:46:00.679
dressing, um, hemostatic agent. and certainly

00:46:00.679 --> 00:46:03.340
a tourniquet those are things that i would recommend

00:46:03.340 --> 00:46:07.440
that that people should carry so for those items

00:46:07.440 --> 00:46:10.659
if those are the top line items what does a person

00:46:10.659 --> 00:46:13.739
expect to spend on that kit and i mean obviously

00:46:13.739 --> 00:46:16.739
you know rescue essentials is the source we're

00:46:16.739 --> 00:46:18.840
promoting here because you guys have right you

00:46:18.840 --> 00:46:21.659
know only quality gear and not the you know the

00:46:21.659 --> 00:46:24.429
3d printed you know, from adversarial country,

00:46:24.570 --> 00:46:27.769
you know, stuff that looks the same as the quality

00:46:27.769 --> 00:46:30.789
tourniquet, but in fact is not. So in looking

00:46:30.789 --> 00:46:33.489
at several of the kits that we have, if you want,

00:46:33.489 --> 00:46:36.909
we'll call an IFAC, an individual first aid kit.

00:46:37.010 --> 00:46:38.869
If you want an IFAC that's got everything, like

00:46:38.869 --> 00:46:40.650
let's say you're an EMT or you've been through,

00:46:40.730 --> 00:46:43.989
you know, a course and you know how to do, you

00:46:43.989 --> 00:46:46.130
know how to put on a chest seal and pack a wound

00:46:46.130 --> 00:46:48.860
and all that stuff. one of those kits is probably

00:46:48.860 --> 00:46:50.539
going to cost you in the neighborhood of $100

00:46:50.539 --> 00:46:54.260
or more. Now, you can, depending on what you

00:46:54.260 --> 00:46:57.159
have access to and what you already have in your

00:46:57.159 --> 00:46:59.920
medical kit at home or what you can purchase

00:46:59.920 --> 00:47:03.739
in the pharmacy near your home or whatever, you

00:47:03.739 --> 00:47:06.940
can get an IFAK in a nylon pouch that's been

00:47:06.940 --> 00:47:08.599
sewn and that makes it really easy to carry,

00:47:08.699 --> 00:47:12.079
or you can buy a refill. So all that stuff will

00:47:12.079 --> 00:47:15.170
come in a Ziploc bag. And that may be a little

00:47:15.170 --> 00:47:18.769
less money, and that way you can stash it in

00:47:18.769 --> 00:47:21.670
your everyday carry gear as you see fit. But

00:47:21.670 --> 00:47:23.150
I would say the minimum things that you want

00:47:23.150 --> 00:47:25.449
to have, again, tourniquet, first most important

00:47:25.449 --> 00:47:29.690
thing. The next would be hemostatic gauze, and

00:47:29.690 --> 00:47:31.829
then the third thing after that would be some

00:47:31.829 --> 00:47:34.150
sort of bandage or wrap or pressure dressing

00:47:34.150 --> 00:47:37.630
that you can wrap around an extremity to hold

00:47:37.630 --> 00:47:39.789
that gauze in place. Those are the three most

00:47:39.789 --> 00:47:42.590
important things. What types of tourniquets?

00:47:42.969 --> 00:47:45.030
Oh, scissors. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, scissors

00:47:45.030 --> 00:47:48.750
are really helpful to cut away clothing and remove

00:47:48.750 --> 00:47:50.909
to expose the wound so that you can properly

00:47:50.909 --> 00:47:54.309
treat it. I would recommend against using a pocket

00:47:54.309 --> 00:47:56.269
knife to shred open somebody's clothes, especially

00:47:56.269 --> 00:47:59.030
in that crisis situation. Lots of adrenaline

00:47:59.030 --> 00:48:02.010
moving really fast and strong. There's a risk

00:48:02.010 --> 00:48:04.170
of you stabbing, you know, your patient. That's

00:48:04.170 --> 00:48:07.739
not true. Not a good idea. If you've never been

00:48:07.739 --> 00:48:10.199
trained how to put a nasal pharyngeal airway

00:48:10.199 --> 00:48:12.300
in an airway that goes in a person's nose, if

00:48:12.300 --> 00:48:15.139
you've never been trained to do that, don't try

00:48:15.139 --> 00:48:22.179
it and don't carry it. But the gauze, yeah. And

00:48:22.179 --> 00:48:25.719
so most of these first aid kits, like right now,

00:48:25.780 --> 00:48:30.880
our compact first aid kit, which... doesn't have

00:48:30.880 --> 00:48:34.039
the hemostatic gauze, but does have regular gauze,

00:48:34.039 --> 00:48:37.039
regular gauze, it's on sale for like 70 bucks.

00:48:37.119 --> 00:48:40.599
And that actually comes with a nylon pouch. So

00:48:40.599 --> 00:48:43.380
that's a pretty good deal. And by the way, listeners,

00:48:43.460 --> 00:48:46.179
I will point out that Dr. Onifer, if you listen

00:48:46.179 --> 00:48:49.940
to the end of the show, has offered graciously

00:48:49.940 --> 00:48:53.639
a 10 % discount on Rescue Essentials gear, a

00:48:53.639 --> 00:48:55.519
good to the end of the year, not just to the

00:48:55.519 --> 00:48:58.380
end of May here, which is, oh, by the way. In

00:48:58.380 --> 00:49:02.460
two days. But good to the end of the year. And

00:49:02.460 --> 00:49:05.099
I did want to point out, it would be easy to

00:49:05.099 --> 00:49:07.579
overlook this. If people are following along

00:49:07.579 --> 00:49:09.699
and looking for Rescue Essentials, you can certainly

00:49:09.699 --> 00:49:14.380
just Google that. But the URL is rescue -essentials

00:49:14.380 --> 00:49:18.960
.com. So rescue -essentials .com is their homepage.

00:49:19.820 --> 00:49:22.539
Now, unfortunately, the kits that are on sale,

00:49:22.619 --> 00:49:24.320
I don't think that discount code will work with

00:49:24.320 --> 00:49:25.980
the kits on sale. But you're actually saving

00:49:25.980 --> 00:49:29.369
more money with the sale price. They're anywhere

00:49:29.369 --> 00:49:32.789
from 15 % to 20 % off. There are stop the bleed

00:49:32.789 --> 00:49:35.469
kits as well. The stop the bleed advanced kit

00:49:35.469 --> 00:49:39.670
has everything we talked about. It has a tourniquet.

00:49:39.769 --> 00:49:43.750
It has some quick clot gauze. It has some regular

00:49:43.750 --> 00:49:45.809
gauze. It's got a trauma dressing. It's got a

00:49:45.809 --> 00:49:49.269
chest seal. It's even got a hypothermia blanket.

00:49:49.909 --> 00:49:52.750
It's got gloves. That's another thing you might

00:49:52.750 --> 00:49:57.489
want to consider having is gloves. You can get

00:49:57.840 --> 00:50:01.179
You can get all the stuff for under $100. Yeah.

00:50:01.239 --> 00:50:04.840
Compare that to the cost of, I mean, geez. It's

00:50:04.840 --> 00:50:07.760
nothing. A few boxes of ammunition. You save

00:50:07.760 --> 00:50:11.139
somebody's life. I mean. Yeah. Or your own. It's

00:50:11.139 --> 00:50:14.019
an investment. And again, you're more likely

00:50:14.019 --> 00:50:17.420
to use this stuff than you probably are to use

00:50:17.420 --> 00:50:20.519
your gun or at least to fire your gun. Like I

00:50:20.519 --> 00:50:23.360
said, you may brandish your gun. or just expose

00:50:23.360 --> 00:50:26.940
it and let somebody know, hey, F around and find

00:50:26.940 --> 00:50:31.119
out, right? But when it comes to actually pulling

00:50:31.119 --> 00:50:35.739
the trigger in an extremist situation, I think

00:50:35.739 --> 00:50:37.480
statistically speaking, that's a lot less likely

00:50:37.480 --> 00:50:41.579
to happen than for you in any context to come

00:50:41.579 --> 00:50:43.639
across somebody who's bleeding. You're right.

00:50:43.980 --> 00:50:46.519
And it's been said time and time again, and people

00:50:46.519 --> 00:50:49.360
just don't unfortunately seem to listen to the

00:50:49.360 --> 00:50:51.820
message. And they're probably left with a great

00:50:51.820 --> 00:50:54.219
deal of regret when they could have saved someone's

00:50:54.219 --> 00:50:58.659
life and they didn't. How hard is it for a person

00:50:58.659 --> 00:51:03.380
to use their IFAC on themselves? I mean, I imagine

00:51:03.380 --> 00:51:06.179
you have to try to maybe experiment a little

00:51:06.179 --> 00:51:10.800
bit with this. So as far as tourniquets, right,

00:51:10.860 --> 00:51:14.559
we train for self -application. We train to put

00:51:14.559 --> 00:51:16.840
them on other people, but we also train to put

00:51:16.840 --> 00:51:18.719
them on ourselves, right? That's an important

00:51:18.719 --> 00:51:23.519
part of training with a tourniquet. And the overwhelming

00:51:23.519 --> 00:51:25.059
majority of your tourniquets are what we call

00:51:25.059 --> 00:51:28.159
windless tourniquets, right? So it's a strap

00:51:28.159 --> 00:51:32.179
with a bar that's fed through the strap, and

00:51:32.179 --> 00:51:34.300
you twist the bar, and then it locks in place.

00:51:34.460 --> 00:51:38.559
A properly applied tourniquet hurts. Like, after

00:51:38.559 --> 00:51:41.389
a little while... It's going to probably be your

00:51:41.389 --> 00:51:43.170
10 out of 10 pain, which means I'm not thinking

00:51:43.170 --> 00:51:45.530
about much of anything else right now except

00:51:45.530 --> 00:51:49.309
this tourniquet hurts really bad. So once you

00:51:49.309 --> 00:51:51.710
get that on, you're probably not going to be

00:51:51.710 --> 00:51:55.429
doing a whole lot much else. But the tourniquet

00:51:55.429 --> 00:51:58.309
is actually not particularly hard to put on.

00:51:58.409 --> 00:52:00.829
Coming from the perspective of being in the military

00:52:00.829 --> 00:52:04.070
where you've got relatively fit, relatively strong

00:52:04.070 --> 00:52:08.800
people. Being able to crank that windlass and

00:52:08.800 --> 00:52:11.480
get it to the right tension isn't that hard.

00:52:12.119 --> 00:52:17.820
My mom, who is in her 70s and has carpal tunnel

00:52:17.820 --> 00:52:20.139
and arthritis in her hands, not going to happen.

00:52:20.360 --> 00:52:22.639
She's not going to spin a windlass. So there

00:52:22.639 --> 00:52:26.800
are other kinds of tourniquets that use a ratchet

00:52:26.800 --> 00:52:29.699
mechanism, a mechanical advantage, which can

00:52:29.699 --> 00:52:33.659
be used for people who don't have that kind of

00:52:33.659 --> 00:52:36.789
strength. So I'm going to talk mostly about windlass

00:52:36.789 --> 00:52:38.389
tourniquets because those are the most common

00:52:38.389 --> 00:52:42.010
ones that you find. The other thing that's an

00:52:42.010 --> 00:52:44.309
issue with the application of the tourniquet

00:52:44.309 --> 00:52:46.849
is that when you put it on and you pull that

00:52:46.849 --> 00:52:49.449
strap and you cinch it down before you even start

00:52:49.449 --> 00:52:52.969
to spin that windlass, you've got to take out

00:52:52.969 --> 00:52:56.170
all the slack and have good tension before you

00:52:56.170 --> 00:52:58.170
start because otherwise you're going to start

00:52:58.170 --> 00:53:00.570
spinning that windlass in the air and you may

00:53:00.570 --> 00:53:05.400
run out of nylon. to spin before you get proper

00:53:05.400 --> 00:53:07.739
tension if you start with the tourniquet loose.

00:53:08.219 --> 00:53:10.000
And that's why one of my favorite tourniquets

00:53:10.000 --> 00:53:13.980
is the SAM XT, SAM medical tourniquet, because

00:53:13.980 --> 00:53:17.519
it has a pre -tensioning mechanism. You pull

00:53:17.519 --> 00:53:20.699
on that and it catches a latch and it pops and

00:53:20.699 --> 00:53:23.000
it puts these two little teeth into the strap

00:53:23.000 --> 00:53:26.199
to lock it in place to let you know that, hey,

00:53:26.219 --> 00:53:28.239
I've got adequate tension and I'm not going to

00:53:28.239 --> 00:53:31.500
lose it. It won't slip out. And then just two

00:53:32.030 --> 00:53:34.690
or so turns of the windlass will usually make

00:53:34.690 --> 00:53:36.969
it work. I was going to say, besides cheap ones,

00:53:37.070 --> 00:53:39.469
are there any styles that you would recommend

00:53:39.469 --> 00:53:43.389
against using? Something that's just purely...

00:53:43.389 --> 00:53:47.210
So, okay. So there's a couple of tourniquets

00:53:47.210 --> 00:53:52.449
that are like bungee cords. I would not use that.

00:53:52.489 --> 00:53:55.510
The tourniquet, the width of the tourniquet strap

00:53:55.510 --> 00:53:59.429
needs to be at least an inch and a half. The

00:53:59.429 --> 00:54:03.039
data that we have... And you can find some tourniquets

00:54:03.039 --> 00:54:06.260
that have a narrower strap than that. But an

00:54:06.260 --> 00:54:09.300
inch and a half is typically the minimum width

00:54:09.300 --> 00:54:12.320
of the strap that you need. Otherwise, it increases

00:54:12.320 --> 00:54:14.900
the pain and it increases the risk of injuring

00:54:14.900 --> 00:54:17.460
that healthy tissue under the strap. You get

00:54:17.460 --> 00:54:20.360
what we call tissue necrosis. So the skin gets

00:54:20.360 --> 00:54:23.960
damaged if the strap is too narrow because it

00:54:23.960 --> 00:54:28.780
applies the pressure. It applies too linear a

00:54:28.780 --> 00:54:32.550
force. A wider strap actually helps distribute

00:54:32.550 --> 00:54:35.769
that force better. It probably occludes, closes

00:54:35.769 --> 00:54:39.150
off the blood vessel better and it probably hurts

00:54:39.150 --> 00:54:42.170
less as well. Like if I took a blood pressure

00:54:42.170 --> 00:54:44.070
cuff, if you have a blood pressure cuff, you

00:54:44.070 --> 00:54:46.369
have a turn. Right. You put that blood pressure

00:54:46.369 --> 00:54:48.630
cuff on and you pump it all the way up to like

00:54:48.630 --> 00:54:52.150
200 or 250 and you've got a tourniquet and that's

00:54:52.150 --> 00:54:56.690
uncomfortable. Yes, it is. But it doesn't hurt

00:54:56.690 --> 00:55:00.599
as much as like a cat. right a combat application

00:55:00.599 --> 00:55:04.800
tourniquet or a sam xt or a softy a special operations

00:55:04.800 --> 00:55:08.219
forces tourniquet right so those those straps

00:55:08.219 --> 00:55:11.380
like but a but a blood pressure cuff is big and

00:55:11.380 --> 00:55:16.579
bulky and expensive and cumbersome right it weighs

00:55:16.579 --> 00:55:18.679
a lot well no one's walking around with those

00:55:18.679 --> 00:55:23.900
right exactly so a decent tourniquet A good reliable

00:55:23.900 --> 00:55:26.420
tourniquet is probably going to cost you between

00:55:26.420 --> 00:55:29.579
$25 and $45. I'll say between $30 and $40 typically.

00:55:30.159 --> 00:55:32.360
But some of them you can get them for a little

00:55:32.360 --> 00:55:34.500
cheaper than that, like depending on the store

00:55:34.500 --> 00:55:36.480
and maybe if they have a sale. But if you're

00:55:36.480 --> 00:55:40.280
paying like $15 or less for a tourniquet, chances

00:55:40.280 --> 00:55:42.860
are good I don't know that I could trust it.

00:55:43.260 --> 00:55:45.900
Like I said, unless it's on sale. Like, hey,

00:55:46.000 --> 00:55:48.800
it's normally $40 and we're getting rid of them.

00:55:49.340 --> 00:55:51.619
because a new generation of tourniquet has come

00:55:51.619 --> 00:55:54.579
out, something like that. But typically, cheap

00:55:54.579 --> 00:55:57.400
tourniquets are not something I would rely on.

00:55:57.579 --> 00:55:58.960
I was just going to say, I've been looking at

00:55:58.960 --> 00:56:01.300
the cat tourniquet, and it seems like every time

00:56:01.300 --> 00:56:03.960
I look at them again, and I have several of them,

00:56:04.059 --> 00:56:06.739
but it comes out and it goes, oh, now up to Gen

00:56:06.739 --> 00:56:09.340
3, Gen 4, Gen 5. I think there's a Gen 7 now.

00:56:09.420 --> 00:56:13.340
And I'm like, 7? What was wrong with 6? I don't

00:56:13.340 --> 00:56:15.420
know. I'm glad they're improving it, though.

00:56:15.760 --> 00:56:18.199
Yeah, I think the big thing with seven from six

00:56:18.199 --> 00:56:21.559
to seven was reinforcement of the windlass to

00:56:21.559 --> 00:56:24.639
make sure that the windlass didn't break. So

00:56:24.639 --> 00:56:27.219
again, the likelihood of a tourniquet, if you

00:56:27.219 --> 00:56:30.440
take a tourniquet out of the wrapper and it's

00:56:30.440 --> 00:56:33.159
not been sitting in like triple digit heat in

00:56:33.159 --> 00:56:36.119
the middle of the desert for the last six years.

00:56:36.800 --> 00:56:39.059
Right. But you take and you have a new tourniquet

00:56:39.059 --> 00:56:40.820
that's been in your everyday carry bag for the

00:56:40.820 --> 00:56:42.760
last year or so. It's still wrapped in the plastic

00:56:42.760 --> 00:56:45.400
or it's in a nylon case. Right. So that it's

00:56:45.400 --> 00:56:47.960
not exposed to the elements and the tissue, the

00:56:47.960 --> 00:56:51.239
tissue, the nylon, the fabric hasn't been rubbing

00:56:51.239 --> 00:56:55.219
up against something and degrading. That tourniquet

00:56:55.219 --> 00:56:57.719
is going to work. Now, if you take that out every

00:56:57.719 --> 00:56:59.579
Saturday and you practice with it a couple of

00:56:59.579 --> 00:57:02.260
times after a while, you're going to get breakdown

00:57:02.260 --> 00:57:04.579
of the material. It will still probably work.

00:57:05.119 --> 00:57:07.079
But I wouldn't, like I said before, I wouldn't

00:57:07.079 --> 00:57:09.219
want my training tourniquet to be my life -saving

00:57:09.219 --> 00:57:12.400
tourniquet. And remember, folks, this is frugal

00:57:12.400 --> 00:57:15.940
firearms, not cheap firearms. And if you consider

00:57:15.940 --> 00:57:19.719
the value proposition of, if some people are

00:57:19.719 --> 00:57:21.460
squeamish about spending a few hundred dollars

00:57:21.460 --> 00:57:23.920
on a medical kit, I guarantee you, when you see

00:57:23.920 --> 00:57:26.239
your own blood spilling out on the floor, you're

00:57:26.239 --> 00:57:28.179
going to be thinking, yeah, you know, maybe I'd

00:57:28.179 --> 00:57:29.940
spend a couple hundred dollars to put that blood,

00:57:30.019 --> 00:57:32.440
you know, keep that blood in me. Best money you

00:57:32.440 --> 00:57:36.219
can spend is on a good unit, yeah. So I carry

00:57:36.219 --> 00:57:38.739
– I typically carry a satchel that I have my

00:57:38.739 --> 00:57:41.039
everyday carry kit in, right? And because I'm

00:57:41.039 --> 00:57:44.880
a concealed carry guy, I have a tourniquet. I

00:57:44.880 --> 00:57:46.699
have a chest seal. I have a needle for needle

00:57:46.699 --> 00:57:48.099
decompression because I know how to do that.

00:57:48.239 --> 00:57:50.179
And I have all the things in there to treat March.

00:57:51.059 --> 00:57:54.219
And people gave me a hard time. They were like,

00:57:54.260 --> 00:57:56.519
you know, your man purse. I'm like, it's a satchel.

00:57:56.599 --> 00:57:58.440
And they said, it's a man purse. And I'm like

00:57:58.440 --> 00:58:00.340
– and I opened it up and I said, man purse does

00:58:00.340 --> 00:58:02.760
not have – this and i start laying out my tourniquet

00:58:02.760 --> 00:58:05.079
and my chest seal and my trauma shears right

00:58:05.079 --> 00:58:07.260
and all this stuff this is a satchel jack bauer

00:58:07.260 --> 00:58:10.679
carries a satchel i carry a satchel right and

00:58:10.679 --> 00:58:14.119
so fast forward there's a group of us for uh

00:58:14.119 --> 00:58:16.940
we're on a trip for a medical at a medical conference

00:58:16.940 --> 00:58:20.239
and we went to a walmart and i'm walking through

00:58:20.239 --> 00:58:22.440
walmart and this guy comes walking by and he's

00:58:22.440 --> 00:58:25.039
got blood on his hands and you know he's walking

00:58:25.039 --> 00:58:27.840
towards me he's a walmart employee and i said

00:58:27.840 --> 00:58:30.880
sir are you okay do you need help And he says,

00:58:30.980 --> 00:58:33.280
it's not my blood, it's her blood. And he just

00:58:33.280 --> 00:58:35.599
storms off. I'm like, okay, I don't know what

00:58:35.599 --> 00:58:37.900
that means, but I follow his blood trail. And

00:58:37.900 --> 00:58:40.159
we get to the produce section, and there's this

00:58:40.159 --> 00:58:43.599
elderly woman who has tripped over the banana

00:58:43.599 --> 00:58:46.760
cart. Didn't trip on a banana peel, but she caught

00:58:46.760 --> 00:58:49.440
her foot on the wheel of the banana cart and

00:58:49.440 --> 00:58:52.380
fell down, hit her head, and now she's got a

00:58:52.380 --> 00:58:54.599
scalp wound. And scalp wounds bleed like stink.

00:58:55.000 --> 00:58:57.400
So she's bleeding all over the place. I kneel

00:58:57.400 --> 00:58:59.179
down. I said, hi, my name's Dana. I'm a doctor.

00:58:59.239 --> 00:59:03.349
Can I help? And, you know, she says, you know,

00:59:03.369 --> 00:59:05.369
I get permission from the patient to assist her.

00:59:06.190 --> 00:59:07.570
And I turned to one of the Walmart employees

00:59:07.570 --> 00:59:09.489
and I said, has somebody called 911? They said,

00:59:09.530 --> 00:59:10.969
yes. And I said, do you guys have a first aid

00:59:10.969 --> 00:59:12.630
kit? They said, yes, somebody's going to get

00:59:12.630 --> 00:59:15.110
it. Because I have my satchel, I have my stuff,

00:59:15.170 --> 00:59:16.449
but I don't want to use my stuff. I don't have

00:59:16.449 --> 00:59:20.630
to. And so they come and they bring their first

00:59:20.630 --> 00:59:24.590
aid kit and their trauma bandage looks like a,

00:59:24.650 --> 00:59:27.250
you know, a woman's sanitary napkin. It's not.

00:59:28.459 --> 00:59:31.159
The equipment that's in their first aid kit is

00:59:31.159 --> 00:59:35.400
not very helpful to me at the moment. So I sigh

00:59:35.400 --> 00:59:37.440
and I reach into my bag and I pull out my nice

00:59:37.440 --> 00:59:39.519
Israeli trauma bandage. And I wrap her head with

00:59:39.519 --> 00:59:44.159
the trauma bandage. And EMS shows up and I give

00:59:44.159 --> 00:59:46.920
them a report. And they're looking at me like,

00:59:47.000 --> 00:59:48.980
okay, who the heck are you? And I tell them I'm

00:59:48.980 --> 00:59:50.440
a military doctor. And they're like, oh, okay,

00:59:50.480 --> 00:59:52.860
cool. And I walk off and I go meet my friends

00:59:52.860 --> 00:59:53.960
out in the car. And they're like, what the heck

00:59:53.960 --> 00:59:55.599
took you so long? And I was like. This lady split

00:59:55.599 --> 00:59:57.000
her head open and was bleeding on the floor.

00:59:57.099 --> 01:00:00.159
I'm like, what'd you do? I'm like, I went into

01:00:00.159 --> 01:00:04.920
my satchel and got my trauma bandage and I stopped

01:00:04.920 --> 01:00:09.179
her bleeding. Satchel. Well done, sir. Well done.

01:00:09.679 --> 01:00:13.219
So it happens every now and again. And, you know,

01:00:13.260 --> 01:00:16.800
my wife and I, I was trying on a sports coat

01:00:16.800 --> 01:00:20.400
in a really nice store. We were in Vegas for

01:00:20.400 --> 01:00:23.800
another conference. And I put it on and I'm like,

01:00:23.940 --> 01:00:27.059
it fits, but the sleeves are kind of short. I'm

01:00:27.059 --> 01:00:28.760
like moving around and everything. And the guy's

01:00:28.760 --> 01:00:30.900
like, you know, lots of, lots of guys come in

01:00:30.900 --> 01:00:32.820
here, sir. And they, you know, they swing their

01:00:32.820 --> 01:00:35.480
arms around, but really how, when you're, when

01:00:35.480 --> 01:00:36.639
you're wearing a sports coat like that, when

01:00:36.639 --> 01:00:38.059
you're all dressed up, like how often do you

01:00:38.059 --> 01:00:39.739
really need to do that kind of thing? And I look

01:00:39.739 --> 01:00:42.019
at my wife and she looks at me and she looks

01:00:42.019 --> 01:00:44.699
at him and she's like, yeah, he gets himself

01:00:44.699 --> 01:00:47.260
into stuff all the time, you know? So I just,

01:00:47.320 --> 01:00:50.920
because, because I've been trained to respond

01:00:50.920 --> 01:00:54.219
to crisis. It's a thing I've been doing. I've

01:00:54.219 --> 01:00:57.019
been doing emergency medicine since I was 16,

01:00:57.139 --> 01:01:00.219
and I volunteered as an EMT when I was a kid.

01:01:00.360 --> 01:01:02.219
So I've been doing this for a long time. It's

01:01:02.219 --> 01:01:06.059
my natural inclination. And I say that because

01:01:06.059 --> 01:01:08.599
I think a lot of the people, back to some of

01:01:08.599 --> 01:01:10.000
your previous questions, I think a lot of the

01:01:10.000 --> 01:01:12.000
people that are going to be concealed carry holders

01:01:12.000 --> 01:01:16.119
who are actually going to engage an adversary

01:01:16.119 --> 01:01:19.219
in a crisis situation are the kinds of people.

01:01:19.789 --> 01:01:22.710
And I may be – I know that I'm chronically optimistic,

01:01:22.989 --> 01:01:24.690
but I think they're the kind of people who are

01:01:24.690 --> 01:01:27.489
going to respond to any kind of crisis, to any

01:01:27.489 --> 01:01:29.409
kind of emergency, and they're going to want

01:01:29.409 --> 01:01:31.050
to help people and do the right thing, right?

01:01:31.210 --> 01:01:32.789
Because they're Americans. That's what we do,

01:01:32.849 --> 01:01:36.570
right? So I think it's – again, just back to

01:01:36.570 --> 01:01:38.929
I think it's really important that people know,

01:01:38.989 --> 01:01:41.650
if nothing else, whatever other first aid or

01:01:41.650 --> 01:01:45.909
medical you need to – you learn, right? Learn

01:01:45.909 --> 01:01:48.190
how to put on a tourniquet. Learn how to do CPR.

01:01:48.679 --> 01:01:51.460
And if I had to choose between those two, I would

01:01:51.460 --> 01:01:53.820
want to learn how to put on a tourniquet. You

01:01:53.820 --> 01:01:57.820
did not mention in the March, well, it's not

01:01:57.820 --> 01:02:01.019
part of the acronym, but something that we see

01:02:01.019 --> 01:02:03.900
in the deserts around Southern California, and

01:02:03.900 --> 01:02:06.099
I think across the South, and I'm not saying

01:02:06.099 --> 01:02:09.039
it's just a West Coast or Southwest thing, but

01:02:09.039 --> 01:02:10.960
maybe they're not life -threatening, but for

01:02:10.960 --> 01:02:13.079
some people they might be, bee stings and venomous

01:02:13.079 --> 01:02:16.079
snake bites. Is that something worth adding to

01:02:16.079 --> 01:02:20.489
the EDC? I would say... Like those little suction

01:02:20.489 --> 01:02:23.750
things or something? No. So let's go with pee

01:02:23.750 --> 01:02:25.690
stings first. If you're someone, if you know

01:02:25.690 --> 01:02:30.289
that you have anaphylaxis, you get all swollen

01:02:30.289 --> 01:02:32.710
and you get the rash and you have trouble breathing,

01:02:32.829 --> 01:02:36.889
you need to carry an EpiPen. I would not recommend

01:02:36.889 --> 01:02:41.610
that someone carries an EpiPen to use on an innocent

01:02:41.610 --> 01:02:44.030
bystander, someone that they don't know. Again,

01:02:44.389 --> 01:02:47.570
that... that you can kill somebody by giving

01:02:47.570 --> 01:02:49.750
them an inappropriate dose of epinephrine. So

01:02:49.750 --> 01:02:53.869
I would not recommend that for use on someone

01:02:53.869 --> 01:02:56.550
else. I would recommend you carrying that if

01:02:56.550 --> 01:02:59.469
you need it or if your kid needs it, then yes.

01:03:00.510 --> 01:03:04.309
My wife gets hit with fire ants, and the last

01:03:04.309 --> 01:03:05.769
time that happened, she was in an ambulance.

01:03:06.010 --> 01:03:09.309
So I have an EpiPen. My son, he's been stung

01:03:09.309 --> 01:03:11.550
and bit by something. He got bit by a black widow.

01:03:11.590 --> 01:03:15.440
Nothing happened. So, like, he's kind of impervious.

01:03:15.800 --> 01:03:18.019
I did a little experiment when he was about four

01:03:18.019 --> 01:03:19.539
or five. We were walking through the woods, and

01:03:19.539 --> 01:03:21.099
I was teaching him about poison oak and poison

01:03:21.099 --> 01:03:23.300
ivy, and I took a poison ivy leaf, and I rubbed

01:03:23.300 --> 01:03:25.039
a little bit on his leg just to see if he had

01:03:25.039 --> 01:03:26.539
the rash because not everybody's sensitive to

01:03:26.539 --> 01:03:32.340
it. He didn't get a rash. I did, right? So when

01:03:32.340 --> 01:03:35.860
it comes to, like, you know, bee stings, like

01:03:35.860 --> 01:03:39.159
venomous insects, if you know that you're allergic,

01:03:39.480 --> 01:03:41.920
carry an EpiPen, and your doctor will prescribe

01:03:41.920 --> 01:03:44.590
those for you. And most insurance companies,

01:03:44.829 --> 01:03:46.590
especially if you've got a documented allergy,

01:03:46.789 --> 01:03:49.329
they'll cover that. When it comes to snakes,

01:03:49.570 --> 01:03:52.610
all that cut the wound and suck the blood and

01:03:52.610 --> 01:03:55.909
all that stuff, no, don't do any of that. So

01:03:55.909 --> 01:04:02.269
the only real treatment for snake bites is antivenom.

01:04:02.849 --> 01:04:05.969
So what you want to do is, if at all possible,

01:04:06.210 --> 01:04:08.670
you keep the bit extremity, you keep it lower

01:04:08.670 --> 01:04:12.010
than the heart, you keep the patient relaxed.

01:04:12.989 --> 01:04:14.849
so that they're not aggressively circulating

01:04:14.849 --> 01:04:17.469
their blood. If you can carry them out of that

01:04:17.469 --> 01:04:20.210
environment, right, that's what you want to do.

01:04:20.369 --> 01:04:23.030
And no tourniquet, right? No tourniquet. Now,

01:04:23.190 --> 01:04:28.889
for neurotoxic snakes, is that the coral snake?

01:04:29.449 --> 01:04:35.510
Probably coral snake. Yeah. Yeah, so not, what's

01:04:35.510 --> 01:04:36.809
the word I'm looking for? Rattlesnakes, what

01:04:36.809 --> 01:04:41.110
is that? Right. Yeah, so not those vipers. Yeah.

01:04:41.150 --> 01:04:44.349
So not vipers. But for the neurotoxic snakes,

01:04:44.510 --> 01:04:47.389
which are pretty uncommon here in the U .S.,

01:04:47.389 --> 01:04:50.769
but for those you put a tourniquet on because

01:04:50.769 --> 01:04:56.429
you want to restrict the bleeding. Now, if you're

01:04:56.429 --> 01:04:58.170
going to put a tourniquet on an extremity, you've

01:04:58.170 --> 01:04:59.789
got to put a tourniquet on. You don't want to

01:04:59.789 --> 01:05:02.090
put on what we call a venous tourniquet where

01:05:02.090 --> 01:05:05.170
you prevent blood from returning to the heart,

01:05:05.210 --> 01:05:07.909
but you don't stop blood from going in, right?

01:05:07.969 --> 01:05:10.369
So you're closing off the veins, which are much

01:05:10.369 --> 01:05:12.800
lower pressure. but you're leaving the arteries

01:05:12.800 --> 01:05:14.820
open, which are much higher pressure, because

01:05:14.820 --> 01:05:17.159
then what happens is you start building up blood

01:05:17.159 --> 01:05:20.099
in that vessel, and you can cause what we call

01:05:20.099 --> 01:05:22.900
compartment syndrome, which can be devastating

01:05:22.900 --> 01:05:28.539
to the muscle in that limb and requires surgical

01:05:28.539 --> 01:05:30.360
correction when it happens. It potentially leads

01:05:30.360 --> 01:05:33.019
to amputation. So if you're going to put a tourniquet

01:05:33.019 --> 01:05:34.760
on, you're going to put a tourniquet on. But

01:05:34.760 --> 01:05:38.440
that's only if you're treating a neurotoxic snake,

01:05:38.519 --> 01:05:40.780
and that's pretty uncommon. So, like I said,

01:05:40.860 --> 01:05:43.920
sucking out the blood, those little suction cup

01:05:43.920 --> 01:05:47.940
doohickeys, we in medicine do not recommend those.

01:05:48.119 --> 01:05:50.780
And the ones that are like syringes that actually,

01:05:50.960 --> 01:05:56.119
those are no good either? No. Okay. Are there

01:05:56.119 --> 01:05:58.659
any other misconceptions about EDC gear that

01:05:58.659 --> 01:06:02.099
are common? I thought you were going to say any

01:06:02.099 --> 01:06:04.570
misconceptions about medicine. No, no, no, no,

01:06:04.570 --> 01:06:07.590
no. Misconceptions about the narrow topic of

01:06:07.590 --> 01:06:10.869
EDC gear that you should set aside. You know,

01:06:10.889 --> 01:06:14.570
the other thing, too, is I've got all this trauma

01:06:14.570 --> 01:06:17.030
gear. I've got a trauma kit in my car. I've got

01:06:17.030 --> 01:06:19.210
a trauma kit in my satchel. I've got a trauma

01:06:19.210 --> 01:06:21.570
kit in my van. I've got one at home. I've got

01:06:21.570 --> 01:06:25.010
one in my range bag. But what's the thing that

01:06:25.010 --> 01:06:27.449
happens all the time? Little cuts and scrapes,

01:06:27.449 --> 01:06:29.550
right? So when you have your trauma, like in

01:06:29.550 --> 01:06:34.079
my EDC, you can get a little mint tin. Or, you

01:06:34.079 --> 01:06:36.420
know, a little Band -Aid box. Put some Band -Aids

01:06:36.420 --> 01:06:41.440
in there. You can put some antiseptic wipes in

01:06:41.440 --> 01:06:43.679
there to clean off the skin. Not a big fan of

01:06:43.679 --> 01:06:46.239
triple antibiotic ointment. Really Vaseline just

01:06:46.239 --> 01:06:47.840
to cover the skin. If you've got a normal immune

01:06:47.840 --> 01:06:50.699
system for a fresh wound, the most important

01:06:50.699 --> 01:06:52.900
thing is to irrigate it. Just use low pressure

01:06:52.900 --> 01:06:56.340
water. You get a water bottle, like a 500 milliliter,

01:06:56.340 --> 01:06:59.519
you know, bottle of drinking water. Use your

01:06:59.519 --> 01:07:01.610
knife, poke a couple of holes in the top. so

01:07:01.610 --> 01:07:03.329
that you got a little irrigation there clean

01:07:03.329 --> 01:07:06.769
out the wound and uh and then just you know bandage

01:07:06.769 --> 01:07:08.889
you're good to go where you can buy like steri

01:07:08.889 --> 01:07:11.409
strips or skin closure things so taking care

01:07:11.409 --> 01:07:14.230
of minor injuries is is important because those

01:07:14.230 --> 01:07:18.550
happen a lot more often okay so rescue essentials

01:07:18.550 --> 01:07:23.420
gear is your uh your affiliation uh any other

01:07:23.420 --> 01:07:25.260
things on the website that you want to point

01:07:25.260 --> 01:07:28.059
out you know specifically you know certain products

01:07:28.059 --> 01:07:29.559
that people might find of interest or something

01:07:29.559 --> 01:07:31.820
like that and by the way listeners i mean you

01:07:31.820 --> 01:07:34.039
know dr onifer's you know spent a good deal of

01:07:34.039 --> 01:07:37.559
time with us today it is a fantastic show and

01:07:37.559 --> 01:07:39.619
uh honestly they deserve your business i mean

01:07:39.619 --> 01:07:41.079
you we've already talked about the fact they

01:07:41.079 --> 01:07:43.679
have stuff on sale at the end of the show i'll

01:07:43.679 --> 01:07:47.489
reveal the um discount code that he has generously

01:07:47.489 --> 01:07:49.789
offered. I would strongly recommend you go to

01:07:49.789 --> 01:07:52.610
their site and browse. But when you're filling

01:07:52.610 --> 01:07:56.289
that cart up with stuff to buy, the discount

01:07:56.289 --> 01:07:59.090
code he offered is a one -time use. So you want

01:07:59.090 --> 01:08:01.690
to make sure you fill the cart completely so

01:08:01.690 --> 01:08:03.650
you get the 10 % off on the things that are not

01:08:03.650 --> 01:08:07.630
sale items. So any other product highlights you'd

01:08:07.630 --> 01:08:12.250
like to bring to their attention? So it's actually

01:08:12.250 --> 01:08:16.039
a really good website. When you go to the main

01:08:16.039 --> 01:08:18.300
page up across the top, you know you've got drop

01:08:18.300 --> 01:08:21.180
-downs for medical kits, components, hardware,

01:08:21.319 --> 01:08:24.159
all sorts of stuff. But if you click on, say,

01:08:24.239 --> 01:08:26.300
medical kits and you say, oh, let's see here,

01:08:26.439 --> 01:08:29.640
school and public access, then you can refine

01:08:29.640 --> 01:08:31.319
that. There's a search engine that will help

01:08:31.319 --> 01:08:33.060
you refine that. How many patients do I want

01:08:33.060 --> 01:08:36.600
to treat? How do I want to carry that? What tourniquet

01:08:36.600 --> 01:08:40.659
do I want to use? And so the website will help

01:08:40.659 --> 01:08:42.840
you to select because there's a ton of options.

01:08:43.449 --> 01:08:47.850
We will custom build kits for various agencies

01:08:47.850 --> 01:08:51.430
and organizations, military, federal, local,

01:08:51.550 --> 01:08:55.090
state, all of them. And if it's a good kit design,

01:08:55.550 --> 01:08:58.170
we'll keep it on the website because somebody

01:08:58.170 --> 01:09:00.590
else might want it too, right? Rather than building

01:09:00.590 --> 01:09:02.409
a brand new custom design and say, oh, wait,

01:09:02.510 --> 01:09:04.489
we really like that Border Patrol kit that you

01:09:04.489 --> 01:09:06.970
guys have. And so we've got some that are designed

01:09:06.970 --> 01:09:09.369
specifically for concealed carry. So you can

01:09:09.369 --> 01:09:11.609
search the website and check that stuff out.

01:09:12.060 --> 01:09:13.680
Yeah, and I'm actually doing that right now.

01:09:13.720 --> 01:09:16.260
One thing, I've never seen this before, the T

01:09:16.260 --> 01:09:18.859
-ring finger cut kit. And because I was talking

01:09:18.859 --> 01:09:21.380
about my daughter being a woodworker and, you

01:09:21.380 --> 01:09:25.319
know, losing a finger in a table saw could happen

01:09:25.319 --> 01:09:27.779
easily. And this thing, I'm actually going to

01:09:27.779 --> 01:09:29.600
buy some of these for my daughter here. Using

01:09:29.600 --> 01:09:32.000
your 10 % discount, of course. Yeah, that's the,

01:09:32.159 --> 01:09:35.539
like, it's basically like a red plastic ring.

01:09:35.579 --> 01:09:37.680
Yeah, it's a red circle thing and you just push

01:09:37.680 --> 01:09:39.819
it right on. Yeah, yeah, it just slides right

01:09:39.819 --> 01:09:42.560
over your finger. It works really well. As we

01:09:42.560 --> 01:09:46.100
close out here, without grossing out us, your

01:09:46.100 --> 01:09:49.840
hosts, or the listener base, you got any funny,

01:09:49.920 --> 01:09:52.140
entertaining, anecdotal stories you'd like to

01:09:52.140 --> 01:09:54.600
share? I was thinking about that. You probably

01:09:54.600 --> 01:09:56.920
have a hundred of them, right? Well, I've got

01:09:56.920 --> 01:09:58.779
a bunch of stories that I don't know how appropriate

01:09:58.779 --> 01:10:00.920
they would be for the general audience. They

01:10:00.920 --> 01:10:04.039
involve bodily fluids and things like that. Real

01:10:04.039 --> 01:10:06.119
quick, back to when you were talking about people

01:10:06.119 --> 01:10:08.100
being squeamish and stuff like that. Again, that's

01:10:08.100 --> 01:10:09.659
where training helps. When you do a stop the

01:10:09.659 --> 01:10:12.380
bleed course, you're going to learn how to pack

01:10:12.380 --> 01:10:15.260
a wound with a wound packing model that should

01:10:15.260 --> 01:10:18.279
have fake blood in it, so you're going to get

01:10:18.279 --> 01:10:20.800
a little bit of exposure. When I do that, I like

01:10:20.800 --> 01:10:24.810
to warm up the blood simulation. I'll put it

01:10:24.810 --> 01:10:26.569
in a crock pot for a while so it's nice and warm.

01:10:26.670 --> 01:10:31.350
It gets people kind of wigged out. I was thinking,

01:10:31.430 --> 01:10:34.770
what's a funny story, like a medical story? I

01:10:34.770 --> 01:10:38.670
had a hard time coming up with one. I don't know

01:10:38.670 --> 01:10:40.649
how related to any of this is, probably not at

01:10:40.649 --> 01:10:44.430
all. When I was a corpsman and when I first started

01:10:44.430 --> 01:10:47.550
with Marine Force Recon and I was going through

01:10:47.550 --> 01:10:49.609
the... what's called the basic reconnaissance

01:10:49.609 --> 01:10:52.069
course it's the primary school to learn that

01:10:52.069 --> 01:10:55.229
stuff and we were on a patrol and the short version

01:10:55.229 --> 01:10:57.350
of that story is we got really wet and really

01:10:57.350 --> 01:11:00.010
cold and we weren't supposed to have gotten really

01:11:00.010 --> 01:11:04.489
wet and so as we're moving down this draw down

01:11:04.489 --> 01:11:06.890
into this little valley and the temperature's

01:11:06.890 --> 01:11:08.550
dropping and we're dropping down below the fog

01:11:08.550 --> 01:11:10.869
layer and it's like miserable and the guy behind

01:11:10.869 --> 01:11:15.710
me he's like doc what he's like spoon like heck

01:11:15.710 --> 01:11:18.359
yeah Right. And so we get into our patrol base

01:11:18.359 --> 01:11:20.640
and me and this guy are snuggled like nut to

01:11:20.640 --> 01:11:22.659
butt for the rest of the night. We took MRE heaters

01:11:22.659 --> 01:11:25.460
and put them in between us because on these patrols

01:11:25.460 --> 01:11:27.000
you travel, you know, we say travel light freeze

01:11:27.000 --> 01:11:29.800
at night. And so we spent that night. It was

01:11:29.800 --> 01:11:32.680
the Wednesday night before Thanksgiving. And

01:11:32.680 --> 01:11:34.380
we spent Wednesday night before Thanksgiving

01:11:34.380 --> 01:11:38.100
snuggled up nut to butt. Were you little spoon

01:11:38.100 --> 01:11:42.279
or big spoon? We would rotate. We would rotate.

01:11:42.899 --> 01:11:48.960
So that was. November of 1992. Fast forward,

01:11:49.239 --> 01:11:53.859
sometime 2018, I'm teaching faculty in the family

01:11:53.859 --> 01:11:57.600
medicine residency program at Camp Lejeune Naval

01:11:57.600 --> 01:12:00.159
Hospital. And I'm rounding in the morning with

01:12:00.159 --> 01:12:03.420
my interns and residents. And we go in there

01:12:03.420 --> 01:12:06.680
to see this female patient. And we're talking

01:12:06.680 --> 01:12:08.300
to her and her husband's standing next to her

01:12:08.300 --> 01:12:11.420
at the bedside. And I look at him and he looks

01:12:11.420 --> 01:12:14.170
at me. And we kind of look at each other and

01:12:14.170 --> 01:12:19.529
he's like, Dana? I'm like, Gary? And we both

01:12:19.529 --> 01:12:21.489
went, holy cow. And he turns to his wife and

01:12:21.489 --> 01:12:27.949
he says, this is the guy I spooned with. So I'm

01:12:27.949 --> 01:12:29.909
like, hey, I'm not the only one who celebrated

01:12:29.909 --> 01:12:32.510
that as a wonderful moment of male bonding. And

01:12:32.510 --> 01:12:37.569
her reaction was? She just looked at him and

01:12:37.569 --> 01:12:42.109
was like, you still tell that story. Any appearances

01:12:42.109 --> 01:12:44.890
you have coming up, Dr. Onifer, either other

01:12:44.890 --> 01:12:47.949
websites you want to promote or, you know, just

01:12:47.949 --> 01:12:50.890
this is your free time to promote yourself a

01:12:50.890 --> 01:12:54.069
little further. Rescue Essentials is where you

01:12:54.069 --> 01:12:57.890
will frequently find Rescue Essentials at EMS

01:12:57.890 --> 01:13:03.180
and fire rescue and police trade shows. you know,

01:13:03.180 --> 01:13:05.300
around the country and honestly around the world,

01:13:05.319 --> 01:13:07.779
but you know, all around the country. So we,

01:13:07.819 --> 01:13:09.699
I'm not the only one. There's a bunch of people

01:13:09.699 --> 01:13:11.479
that will be, you know, at the table somewhere.

01:13:11.539 --> 01:13:14.460
I tend to focus on the military stuff. So. Sounds

01:13:14.460 --> 01:13:16.939
good. All right. Hey, well, this has been an

01:13:16.939 --> 01:13:18.739
outstanding show. We want to thank you for your

01:13:18.739 --> 01:13:21.939
time again. We'll, we'll go ahead and reveal

01:13:21.939 --> 01:13:25.880
it. Now the rescue essentials. 10 % discount

01:13:25.880 --> 01:13:28.220
code, good until the end of the calendar year,

01:13:28.399 --> 01:13:32.180
is very simply frugal10. And 10 is the digits,

01:13:32.340 --> 01:13:35.279
one, zero. So you go there, you help them out,

01:13:35.380 --> 01:13:38.060
give them a little bit of love for spending the

01:13:38.060 --> 01:13:41.460
time to get you guys ready for the real world,

01:13:41.520 --> 01:13:44.319
quite frankly. Indeed. We'd very much like to

01:13:44.319 --> 01:13:47.859
thank Dr. Onifer for coming on and sharing his

01:13:47.859 --> 01:13:51.359
experiences with us, especially with those of

01:13:51.359 --> 01:13:55.529
us who are less medically inclined. Given some

01:13:55.529 --> 01:13:58.109
tremendous points and things that I'm going to

01:13:58.109 --> 01:14:00.329
be thinking about and definitely things I'm going

01:14:00.329 --> 01:14:03.010
to be purchasing from Rescue Essentials that

01:14:03.010 --> 01:14:06.189
will assist those of us who are into firearm

01:14:06.189 --> 01:14:08.909
shooting sports as well as those who are woodworkers.

01:14:09.430 --> 01:14:11.670
Because there's a lot of very stop the bleed.

01:14:11.989 --> 01:14:13.609
I think it's probably the single most important

01:14:13.609 --> 01:14:15.970
thing we really ought to start focusing on. So,

01:14:15.989 --> 01:14:18.770
Craig, what did you think? Well, I mean, do you

01:14:18.770 --> 01:14:22.420
drive a car? I mean, that's another area where

01:14:22.420 --> 01:14:26.300
there's a lot of opportunity to use this knowledge

01:14:26.300 --> 01:14:28.479
that we don't have because both of us probably,

01:14:28.859 --> 01:14:31.680
I mean, hell, he talked about being through the

01:14:31.680 --> 01:14:35.060
Stop the Bleed courses. I mean, I damn near pass

01:14:35.060 --> 01:14:39.140
out in those courses. I'm so bad at this. It's

01:14:39.140 --> 01:14:41.859
not my thing. No, it's not our thing at all.

01:14:42.060 --> 01:14:45.779
But I do believe that a person can rise to the

01:14:45.779 --> 01:14:48.689
occasion, as I thought I did. As you did. Yes.

01:14:48.789 --> 01:14:51.069
I rose to the occasion. I got everything in a

01:14:51.069 --> 01:14:53.489
held her, held her. She's not bleeding, bleeding

01:14:53.489 --> 01:14:55.489
out, call the paramedics and the handed over

01:14:55.489 --> 01:14:58.449
to paramedics. And then I just, okay, I'm going

01:14:58.449 --> 01:15:00.310
to go sit down and wash up and sit down because

01:15:00.310 --> 01:15:02.970
more than I want to do. There you go. So what

01:15:02.970 --> 01:15:05.350
we're good at, you and I, we're good at podcasting.

01:15:05.489 --> 01:15:08.869
We're good. And to our listeners, Hey, if you

01:15:08.869 --> 01:15:10.689
like that content, you like the quality of the

01:15:10.689 --> 01:15:12.310
people we have coming on. And by the way, I got

01:15:12.310 --> 01:15:15.069
a couple really good ones that are just on the

01:15:15.069 --> 01:15:19.609
cusp of, of, of being featured. Yeah, that like

01:15:19.609 --> 01:15:22.090
and subscribe thing that takes you like two seconds

01:15:22.090 --> 01:15:24.770
to do, like by hitting a button, do that because

01:15:24.770 --> 01:15:28.289
that helps the algorithm get us more notoriety.

01:15:29.600 --> 01:15:33.100
by the way as the audience size grows we get

01:15:33.100 --> 01:15:36.680
better participants and when we get better participants

01:15:36.680 --> 01:15:40.020
you listeners get better shows so indeed how

01:15:40.020 --> 01:15:43.460
do you find the the website is easy frugalfirearmspodcast

01:15:43.460 --> 01:15:46.340
.com very simple if you want to reach out to

01:15:46.340 --> 01:15:50.279
us frugal firearms podcast at gmail .com see

01:15:50.279 --> 01:15:53.420
we've made this very easy and uh again you know

01:15:53.420 --> 01:15:55.500
tell your friends and by the way to talk about

01:15:55.500 --> 01:15:58.199
word of mouth there's been a number of downloads

01:15:58.199 --> 01:16:01.279
just in the last few weeks that you know i haven't

01:16:01.279 --> 01:16:02.840
really been posting very much and they're just

01:16:02.840 --> 01:16:05.619
happening welcome to new listeners in singapore

01:16:05.619 --> 01:16:11.039
in poland on the tropical island of guam across

01:16:11.039 --> 01:16:13.800
various places in europe now we did have one

01:16:13.800 --> 01:16:17.020
that i think it may have simply been where someone

01:16:17.020 --> 01:16:20.020
had their vpn located but we had one in algeria

01:16:20.020 --> 01:16:23.239
that mapped out in the sahara desert i think

01:16:23.239 --> 01:16:27.220
so i don't know if some person was just bored

01:16:27.220 --> 01:16:29.760
and had a you know satellite link and wanted

01:16:29.760 --> 01:16:33.699
whatever yeah riding their camel across algeria

01:16:33.699 --> 01:16:36.140
but i mean no disrespect to people in algeria

01:16:36.140 --> 01:16:39.260
if you want to listen we welcome you but but

01:16:39.260 --> 01:16:41.340
i was suspect that that one could have simply

01:16:41.340 --> 01:16:44.220
been a vpn uh location that someone else shows

01:16:44.220 --> 01:16:46.899
yeah yeah but yeah do get the word out because

01:16:46.899 --> 01:16:49.460
honestly again it helps you guys you know help

01:16:49.460 --> 01:16:52.899
us help you get better shows so with that i think

01:16:52.899 --> 01:16:55.760
we're about done uh next one's coming up there

01:16:55.760 --> 01:16:59.670
is a One of my favorite optics companies is going

01:16:59.670 --> 01:17:02.710
to be featured very soon. Look for that coming

01:17:02.710 --> 01:17:06.510
up. And another one, hopefully quite soon, from

01:17:06.510 --> 01:17:08.909
a company that's not normally thought of as a

01:17:08.909 --> 01:17:11.710
frugal option, but they absolutely are, a very

01:17:11.710 --> 01:17:14.649
high -end trigger manufacturer. So be looking

01:17:14.649 --> 01:17:17.149
for those shows as well. Anything else to close

01:17:17.149 --> 01:17:19.350
out there, Ken? That'll do it. I appreciate your

01:17:19.350 --> 01:17:21.489
time, everyone. See you soon. All right. Good

01:17:21.489 --> 01:17:43.829
night, folks. Tomorrow, I'm wasting eight hours

01:17:43.829 --> 01:17:48.329
learning stuff I already know to do my CCW course.

01:17:48.470 --> 01:17:50.329
Thank you very much. You know, you should move

01:17:50.329 --> 01:17:53.949
to America. Yeah, a free state. You know what?

01:17:53.989 --> 01:17:56.489
I think it's a case of you can run, but you can't

01:17:56.489 --> 01:17:56.689
hide.