Yep, and she's squirting all over the place,
okay? This is not my thing, okay? And real quick,
real quick, Ken. You don't want to use a tourniquet
there. No, you do not. No, I knew that. Hey,
neck tourniquets are very effective at stopping
bleeding. But there are some treatment costs.
Some side things, yeah. Welcome to Episode 17
of the Frugal Firearms Podcast, the podcast that
is here to help you get the most for your money,
for your shooting dollar, across not just firearms,
but the entirety of the shooting sports industries.
I'm joined today by Ken. Ken, say hello. Hello,
listeners. I appreciate you guys coming back,
and I think we've got a very interesting show
to talk to today. So we've talked a lot about
going to SHOT Show, and that's where we mine
a lot of our prospects for doing podcasts. And
when you walk that show, it's something like
860 ,000 square feet of floor space. And when
you're walking this show, you come across that
they kind of organize things categorically. And
there's stuff on the upper floor, which are the
big, expensive displays by companies like Smith
& Wesson and Glock and stuff like that. And then
there's a lot of other companies that occupy
smaller booths, generally down on the first floor.
Some of them are startups, some of them are established,
but don't want to spend literally $200 ,000 on
setting up a display. And I walk every... foot
of the entire floor space as part of my dedication
to you listeners. And one room has medical gear.
It's not one of the bigger rooms. And I kind
of want you to think for a second about maybe
why that is. I mean, yes, it's a firearms show.
But one thing that I found there was this one
particular table by a company called Rescue Essentials.
And Rescue Essentials had a lot of things out
that were training aids, not just things that
you would use literally in the field, but things
to help you learn how to use those things in
the field. So I stopped and had a rather long
conversation with the gentleman who was standing
there, who was very gracious with his time, a
gentleman named Dr. Dana Onifer. Dr. Onifer spent
probably across two days about 45 minutes talking
to me. And when you're at a show that has, like
I said, 860 ,000 square feet of floor space,
spending that much time with anybody is really
quite an investment. So I asked Dr. Onifer to
come on and join us on the show because I think
that a topic that is just ignored. way too much
in the shooting industry is your medical EDC
gear and what you should really have. Because
when you think about the probability of needing
a firearm, in fact, I'm going to ask you, Ken,
what do you carry a firearm for? What is your
purpose in carrying a firearm? My purpose of
having my CCW and carrying my firearm is an emergency
situation that might arise in the most unlikely
of scenarios. I mean, I hate to say it, church.
I'm going to the movie theater, whatever it might
be. But it is to protect myself and my family
and others if I can. Okay. So you're carrying
a firearm, even though it seems a little bit
maybe backwards, as a life -saving tool. Yes,
like a fire extinguisher. But are you then also
prepared? to handle the more likely scenario
of you come across a medical emergency. Or let's
just say that you have to use that firearm in
anger. Are you ready to render aid to those who
also may be at the scene and who are injured?
Interesting question. I mean, if I'm at the range,
I have a medical kit. you know with me at the
range uh which has tourniquets and various other
things which would be for only immediate stuff
until we get the professionals there um but yeah
this is an area that i'm certain i have not given
enough attention to and and it's something i'm
very much looking forward to hearing the doctor
talk about and and with that we'll bring on um
dr dana onifer uh from rescue essentials and
and doctor welcome to the show and we'd like
to get A little bit of your background. How did
you become associated with Rescue Essentials?
What is your interest and background? Why are
you taking your time to talk to us today? Well,
hi, Craig. Hi, Ken. Thanks for having me on.
So a little bit of backstory. I spent 33 years
in the Navy. I did 12 of those years as a hospital
corpsman with Marine Force Recon. And then...
Thank you for paying your taxes. I went to medical
school on the taxpayer dollar at the Uniformed
Services University of the Health Sciences, or
we just call it USU, in Bethesda, Maryland, which
is the government's medical school. And graduated
class of 2005 and then went back to be in the
doctor for Marine Force Recon Unit and then was
at MARSOC. Retired in 2022 and... I've been involved
with the medical research organization, or I
should say the medical research infrastructure
within the military. And at those events, you
have lots of trade show vendors that set up their
stuff. I became good friends with a bunch of
those different people. And one of them in particular,
when I retired, she said, hey, what are you doing?
And I said, not a whole lot right now. And she
said, there is these people. I think they're
really good people. And they could use some help
with some product development and get some exposure
to the military. Would you like to consult for
them? And I said, sure. And so I first met those
folks in May of 2025 at the Special Operations
Medical Association conference in Raleigh. And
I signed an agreement with them, I think, in
July. And so I've been working with them. on
a part -time basis as a consultant since then,
coming up on two years. That sounds like it's,
well, thank you for your service, your prior
service, of course. And it sounds to me like
you probably during that tenure were exposed
to a lot of things that would make a billy goat
puke, right? In terms of the types of injuries
and maybe lessons learned about the sort of things
that people could have done but maybe didn't
have the training or equipment to do to to save
their own life or the life of their buddy next
to them is that that a good guess so um yeah
i'm not as much as some uh more than others you
know but i think the what's what's more important
for from my perspective what i've done is um
from maybe a leadership and education and training
and a policy standpoint, is helping to develop
the guidelines that we use throughout the DOD
and really internationally. So I spent nine years
on the Committee for Tactical Combat Casualty
Care, which is a DOD organization under the Joint
Trauma System. And since about 2002, I think
maybe longer than that. They've been the organization
that has been delegated the responsibility of
creating the guidelines for tactical combat casualty
care. We'll call it TC3. Some people call it
T -Tri -C. But that is the first aid for combat
medicine. And it's also led to... interactions
with and partnerships with civilian medicine
as well. In particular, after the Boston Marathon
bombings and the Sandy Hook school shooting,
the American College of Surgeons developed the
Stop the Bleed campaign, which is modeled, their
treatment guidelines are modeled on the TC3 guidelines.
Those guidelines are also used by civilian paramedics
and in particular like SWAT paramedics and SWAT
teams. uh under the name of tactical emergency
casualty care and this is um the month of may
coming up on the end of month of may here so
this is still stop the bleed month um how how
often would you say you know given given your
background and and all that you've been exposed
to How often is the average person, let's just
say the average person for this listening audience
is a CCW carrier. Let's just kind of set that
as the ground rule for your average person. How
often is that average person going to come across
a medical emergency that would require some application
of medical experience, training, or equipment,
or I suppose all those three, going? against
the backdrop of how often would they perhaps
need to use their firearm in anger to save the
life or some other improvised weapon to save
a life. And that could be, you know, Ken mentioned
being on the range, which is sort of a, you know,
a place where there's a lot of guns and there's
therefore a lot of danger with maybe uneducated
people or inexperienced people. But at the same
time, I mean, out in the public, probably a lot
fewer guns, but there's a lot more risk. of other
natures out there. Yeah. So that's a, that's
a great question. And then I was doing some research
because there's, there's not a lot of really
good data on exactly how often that happens.
You know, you'll see some numbers that firearms
firearms are used somewhere between one and 2
million times a year to prevent violence, right.
Or that they are used to actually save someone's
life. the statistics say potentially that many
times and often that's just brandishing right
recognize like someone you say hey i've got a
gun and then the bad guy says okay i don't want
to mess with that and they just wander off right
or they leave um so what i i i looked at some
of the the numbers that we have available there's
about 150 000 deaths in the u .s every year from
trauma and somewhere between 60 and 30 000 of
those are from bleeding to death and and that
may be a combination of internal and external
hemorrhage so internal the bleeding is inside
your body right like you get a pelvis fracture
um or you're you know a motor vehicle accident
your liver gets lacerated that bleeding is inside
there's nothing i can do about that but then
there's external hemorrhage where i have a cut
That could be a motor vehicle accident as well.
That could be an industrial accident. That could
be a lawnmower, farming equipment, whatever.
And your blood is now on the ground and is continuing
to pour out, and we need to stop that. So that's
30 ,000 to 60 ,000 people that die every year
from bleeding that are potentially savable. Let's
compare that with... CPR and cardiac arrest.
In the US, there's about 350 ,000 people a year
that experience out -of -hospital cardiac arrest.
People who drop dead, sudden heart attack. CPR
is not particularly effective. Of those 350 ,000,
about 10 % of them will survive. Really? I thought
the numbers were a lot better than that. No,
not at all. And improvements, you know, the things
that will improve a person's likelihood of survival
is rapidly starting CPR, right? So bystander
CPR, somebody gets that heart, I'm sorry, gets
that blood moving and, you know, and rapid use
of an AED, automatic external defibrillator.
Right. And so that's why everybody gets trained
with CPR and you have AEDs all over the place.
Yeah, they told us that the best place to get
a heart attack was at work. Right, because there's
probably an AED there. It's there on the wall,
and the people at work are trained. Yeah. So,
you know, I make the argument that when you think
about this, 30 ,000 to 60 ,000 people that die
every year from external hemorrhage, tourniquets
are on your worst day. If you've got a good tourniquet
and you know how to use it, you're going to be
about 60 % to 70 % reliable. 60 to 70 % effective.
And if you know what you're doing and you've
got a good tourniquet and you use it correctly,
you're upwards of 90 plus percent. So you're
potentially saving 20 to as high as 55 ,000 people
a year by knowing how to stop the bleed. So,
you know, I think it's important for people to
know this stuff. whether or not you're going
to carry a gun. And obviously that's my bias,
right? But in particular, if you are involved
or have the potential to be involved in making
metal go really fast, right? Now, whether that
means you own a gun range, right? You sell guns,
you teach people how to shoot, you shoot, you
carry, any of those people, I think that there's
a certain responsibility of being able to deal
with the consequences. of after the gun goes
bang. When metal hits tissue, when metal hits
a body, a human person, and does that damage.
Craig, you used the term in anger, and I try
not to use that expression. I'll say in extremis.
Okay. I like that better. Some of it's kind of
philosophical for me. From my Christian worldview,
I try not to hate anyone. I'm trying to stop
a bad guy from doing bad things, and I'd rather
not kill them, but chances are good I've got
pretty good shot placement, and they may not
survive this encounter. Yeah, you're right, and
I suppose I was just using a colloquial term
that is maybe perhaps overused, but you're right.
Actually, if you're angry, you probably have
the time to think about something and maybe you
should disengage, right? I mean, it's time to
disengage. Because if it's just reactionary and
the emotion comes later, right? Right, because
the best response is to walk away. If possible,
right? Avoid conflict. Or run. Yeah. You mentioned
metal going fast. I mean, a car goes fast, too,
and it's an awful lot of metal. Yeah, so does
a chainsaw blade. Right. And you could, I mean,
how often do people come across car accidents
that just drive on by where maybe they could
have rendered some aid if they knew what they
were doing? And actually, your previous statement,
you teed up two other points here. Although I'm
going to hold those points till later, just in
the flow of the conversation. But to pick up
on your percentages, okay, how many CCW holders
do you estimate? Maybe you have solid numbers
in this. Maybe it's just a gut feel, which is
either one is fine. How many CCW carriers also
carry some medical EDC with them regularly in
public where it's accessible in the timeframe
that matters? I mean, what's the phrase that
I work for the Navy as well? Technology at the
speed of relevance. In other words, do you have
the thing? It may be in your car a hundred yards
away, which is not going to do you a lot of good.
Is it really on your person? Can you really use
it? Right. I live in a very military town. I
live just outside of Camp Lejeune. And a lot
of the people that I know and interact with here
who carry are much more likely to have medical
equipment, at least a tourniquet with them. And
a lot of that's because they're issued this stuff,
right? They get a fresh tourniquet every time
they go on a deployment. So they probably got
a whole bunch of crap sitting in their garage.
But, you know, from SHOT Show, I've been to SHOT
Show twice. And in a couple of other venues,
in talking to people who are involved in the
firearms industry and who are avid shooters,
gun owners, gun store owners and stuff like that,
or even just to a local gun show, there's very
little recognition that maybe I should carry
medical equipment. Maybe I should carry a tourniquet.
And I've used that same expression. If you're
involved in making metal go fast. You need to
be ready to deal with the consequences of that.
And, you know, I'm not a lawyer. I don't have
any legal training. I did listen to your last
episode about the concealed carry, the CCW safe,
which I found that very interesting. So I've
been a member of another organization, but after
listening to that podcast, I'm going to go look
at the terms of that organization and compare
it to CCW safe because I liked a lot of the things
that I heard. But, you know, in my mind, The
first thing I've got to take care of is me, right?
I've got to make sure that I survive this encounter
because my adversary may have good shot placement
too. And so the first thing I want to do is make
sure that I don't bleed out. The second thing
I want to do is make sure that if there are any
innocent bystanders who have been harmed, that
I can take care of them if possible. And all
of this stuff, when I think about this and when
we talk about what should I carry, this is all...
predicated on the idea that that i can make a
911 call and ems is going to arrive in a relatively
quick relatively quickly right like 10 minutes
or less yeah 15 at the most we're not hanging
out on a farm for an hour waiting for right waiting
for ems to come that's it that's a different
story but the third thing is the the guy that
i shot if possible i'm going to render aid to
him even if he's dead I'm going to render aid
to him if possible. Because in my mind, and again,
this isn't legal advice, I don't know if this
works, but in my mind, when I have to stand before
a jury of my peers, because I'm going to assume
that's going to happen, I want to be able to
say and demonstrate that I did not have murderous
intent. I didn't go into that encounter with
the desire to kill anyone. I was trying to stop
somebody from doing harm to others or myself.
And hopefully, they're not dead, and I saved
their life. And then they get to suffer the judicial
consequences of their actions. But I'm going
to do everything I can to prevent that person
from dying. And so by rendering aid first to
myself to make sure that I can then take care
of other people and manage the situation, and
then to the innocent bystanders, but then finally
to that person, my adversary, I'm going to render
aid to them as well. I think that's the moral
thing to do. And it also, like I said, I can
stand there and honestly say, It was not my intention
to kill that person. I just wanted to stop them
from hurting myself or others. And I think that
a jury, particularly with your training and your
degree, license, and so forth, they would look
at you more harshly if you didn't do it. Yeah,
as long as that person is no longer a threat.
Yes, absolutely. Make sure that they're disarmed.
Ideally, again, I'm expecting that I'm in a place
where the police and EMS are going to be relatively
close by. Making sure that the scene is safe.
That's the most important thing in any kind of
emergency situation. In tactical combat casualty
care, the first phase is care under fire when
you're still receiving effective fire from your
adversary. And we say the best combat medicine
is fire superiority. So the first thing you want
to do is control the threat. Whatever the situation
is, control the threat. threat make sure the
chainsaw is off make sure the car is not moving
anymore right whatever the danger is you want
to secure that make sure it's no longer harming
your patient and make sure it's not going to
harm you because whatever hurt them can hurt
you and you and you mentioned uh you know it
is also just the christian thing to do or i mean
probably people of any religion honestly there's
there's plenty of you know theologically based
you know, responsibility that goes with not wasting
a life because, and if you, you know, maybe that
person, I don't know. We'll have a second chance
someday and turn into a good person. But I mean,
at the moment, yeah, you're right. And that is
the right thing to do. And by the way, dear listeners,
keep in mind that neither Ken or I are lawyers
either. And everything on this show is simply
opinion and discussion and is not meant as legal
advice. But I think everyone knows that. At least
we've said it enough times. So going, okay, so
stemming off that comment, Dr. Onifer. Let's
talk about you said that people maybe have equipment
because they were issued it. But then again,
these are guys who also have some training. I
carry a tourniquet in my computer bag everywhere
I go. I'm the only person I know who does that.
But the amount of tomorrow I'm taking my two
hundred dollar eight hour required course to
renew my CCW in California. And let's not get
started. Yes, $200. And that's before the ammunition
cost. Every two years. You're required to do
it every two years. Yeah, every two years so
that I can spend a bunch of money to exercise
a freedom. That's a separate topic. But I will
tell you that in aggregate, the amount that I
have spent on medical training. is probably not
more than that in my life and as ken just said
we have to do this every two years in california
so how many people of walking around with what
they think is a good tourniquet and maybe they
got it off amazon it probably isn't that good
um maybe a bandage or two and they think they're
good but they have no training right how many
people have gone to the effort of actually getting
the training who aren't required to get it They've
done it not as part of a military organization
that requires a certain amount. Just average
guy, civilian, who is a gun enthusiast, maybe
has his tourniquet. How many of those people
have gotten training? Probably very few. So since
the Stop the Bleed campaign has started, that
number continues to go up. Now, so a little bit
of history. 1996. September of 1996 is when Captain
Frank Butler, who was the SOCOM surgeon, the
Special Operations Command surgeon, the senior
medical officer for all special operations in
the U .S. military, wrote an article called Tactical
Combat Casualty Care in Special Operations. And
so that article said tourniquets first. Because
up until that point, it was... Direct pressure,
elevation, pressure points, and tourniquets as
a last resort. And Frank looked at the data.
He and several other people looked at the data
and said, you know, these are preventable deaths.
We looked at mostly Vietnam data and said these
are preventable deaths and tourniquets could
have saved these people's lives. And that was
literally and figuratively life -changing. It
took probably... 15 years, maybe we'll say 10
years for that to start to really gain traction.
And the big thing that drove that was GWAT, right?
Once we started engaging in regular combat operations
and people were starting to get injured and bleed,
it became increasingly recognized that this stuff
really works, right? So that has taken time to
filter through into the civilian. into the civilian
medical world. So again, the Boston Marathon
bombing, those two brothers that were involved
in that, they were in a shootout with some Boston
police. One of the police officers, I think I
have this story correct. One of the police officers
was shot and was bleeding and a bystander who
had prior military training applied a tourniquet
and the dispatcher told them to take the tourniquet
off. and that police officer died. So because
at that time, there's still, there's a lot of
people who think like tourniquets are bad. And
if you don't need a tourniquet and you decide
to leave it on for, you know, six or 12 hours,
yes, it is bad. But when you're bleeding out
from an extremity injury and you're only going
to have it on until you get to the hospital and
you get to surgery and they can fix that, then
it is absolutely life -saving. You've got minutes.
If you've got a significant arterial bleed, you've
got minutes before you can go into hemorrhagic
shock and die. So I think it's getting traction
that people are recognizing the need for that
kind of care. And there's been a lot of exposure
in movies and things like that. There's been
a lot of press that has shown people surviving
because of tourniquets. And the Rangers in particular,
Rangers are great. You tell them to do something
and they're going to do it. Right. And so the
Rangers demonstrated this. They had the lowest
combat casualty rate of died of wounds rate in
all of recorded military history. It's like one
point eight percent, because from the top on
down, I think this was General McChrystal was
in charge of the Rangers. He said, everybody
is going to know tactical combat casualty care.
And this is my leadership priority. And so everybody
knew how to do it. And the Rangers have really
led the way on it. And so they went to Afghanistan
and they saved a lot of lives because they did
it. And that really proved to everyone that,
okay, this stuff really works. And again, some
people will push back and say, well, this isn't
combat. Your blood doesn't know the difference.
No. Right? Your cardiovascular system and your
brain and your heart don't know the difference
about what is making all of the blood go on the
ground. It just knows that it doesn't have any
more blood and that doesn't like it. And so,
you know, if you can control bleeding through
a less drastic measure, great, then you probably
don't need a tourniquet. But I would rather put
the tourniquet on first and get that bleeding
under control and then reassess later when I've
determined that I don't need it. And again, also
considering this in the context of I can make
a 911 call and I expect an ambulance to arrive
in, you know, 10 or 15 minutes. So given that,
you did talk percentages earlier about the likelihood
of being able to save a life and so on. Did those
numbers accrue to amateurs and untrained people?
Or did those numbers accrue only to medical professionals
in terms of your probability of saving a life
if you really don't have training? And I guess
as a side topic. how many people who have some
training, it just is gone when they need it because
they're under stress and they just forget all
their training. Sure. So there, yeah. So there's
a couple of things there. So unfortunately there's,
there's not really good data to tell me who's
doing it and how and how well they're doing it.
There's, you know, and sometimes there's a concern
of will a, will a lay person, will a bystander
cause more harm than benefit? You know, look,
look back to CPR. If you check and that person
doesn't have a pulse, you check they don't have
a carotid pulse, they're not breathing, they're
unresponsive, well, you've got enough evidence
to make a treatment decision. If you've got nothing
else, because if you start pumping on their chest
and they jump up and say, leave me alone, then
you know to stop. And if you've got somebody...
who's laying there on the ground unconscious
in a pool of blood, and you can identify where
that bleeding is coming from, and you can stop
that bleeding. You're saving their life. All
states have good Samaritan laws. I would encourage
your listeners to check the good Samaritan laws
in their state to see if there's any particular...
I said, you live in the People's Republic of
California, so I don't know what they have there.
Here in America, most other states are going
to be nice to you if you try and help your neighbor.
I'm being a little sarcastic. But your Good Samaritan
laws are going to protect you from liability.
But the likelihood that you're going to hurt
somebody worse than them dying is probably pretty
small. So I'm less concerned about the layperson
who's not well -trained. not doing it correctly
i'm less concerned about that than i am about
somebody not doing anything at all and and then
a victim you know bleeding to death the the other
question is you know the the importance of training
right obviously i'm going to tell you that it's
it's important to train um and you know when
we talk about later on we talk about different
kinds of equipment there's some equipment that
is easier to use than others and and makes the
training I won't say less necessary, but it's
not as critical for you to be as well trained
on it because the device itself is set up to
help you. But like anything else in a crisis
situation, you're going to react the way you
train. And if you've never trained to do anything,
you're not going to do anything. Or if you've
trained to do wrong things, whereas every time
you go to the range, as soon as you empty your
magazine, you do a speed reload. and then holster
your weapon, and then pick up your brass because
you've got to keep the range clean, chances are
good that when you're in a gunfight, you might
do that. You might holster your weapon while
getting shot at to pick up brass. Nobody's thinking
about, I need to clean up the range. But for
the last 150 times that you went through that
drill, that's what you did, and that's what you
will just do. So it's important for us to practice.
One quick caveat. Or a point that I'll make is
if you're going to practice with a tourniquet,
which I recommend, you really want to have a
tourniquet. You want to have a training tourniquet.
You don't want your life -saving tourniquet to
be the one that you've practiced on 10 or 20
times because you can cause degradation of the
material and increase the risk of tourniquet
failure. I would rather keep my life -saving
tourniquet separate and unplayed with and then
have one that I use for training. So I'm going
to ask kind of the opposite question then. How
many people who have a modicum of either training
or at least awareness have a modicum of equipment
actually make things worse? Does that really
happen in the real world? Like they try to help
and they actually made it worse? I look for data
on that. I did some searching in the medical
literature and then I talked to my favorite AI
search engine. and there are no real numbers
on that so it's it's statistically it's probably
it probably exists doesn't matter yeah yeah it
probably exists but again the the harm that you
might cause in saving someone's life is far less
than the harm of them of you not saving their
life and them dying well yeah and the reason
i asked that question is i think that look i'm
ken and i are both super squeamish right i mean
side of blood dude likelihood of me fainting
is really high. I mean, and maybe that's actually
another point, which is how likely are people
just to basically go into shock or switch off
when they're trying to render aid because they
can't deal with it. Maybe the shock comes later.
But my thought is that, you know, your likelihood
of helping someone so far outweighs the risk
of damage. And I think people, I want to sweep
aside the idea that they're afraid to help. Yeah,
and Craig, I've actually got an example of this.
I am, you know, blood is not my thing, and that's
one of the reasons I never went into the medical
field. However, I was out in my front yard about
10 years ago, and an 85 -year -old lady across
the street trips, falls, and rips open her, I
don't know, the temporal artery next to the side
of your right eye socket someplace. Yep, temporal
artery. Yep, and she's squirting all over the
place, okay? This is not my thing, okay? And
real quick, Ken, you don't want to use a tourniquet
there. No, you do not. No, I knew that. Hey,
neck tourniquets are very effective at stopping
bleeding. But there are some treatment consequences.
Some side things, yes. So I remember putting
left and right hand, clamping my hands together
on each side of her temples, both sides, and
holding them together as tight as I could. And
then asking the other person, call 911 right
away. And the fire department was great. They
showed up with the paramedics in about six, seven
minutes. That was great. I was holding it on
there. I'm all now covered in blood myself. And
then as soon as it turned, The paramedics were
there. I said, look, guys, it's a squirter, you
know. And they go, what do you mean? And I said,
look, when I take my hand off here, you're going
to know. And sure enough, then they took over
and I said, thank you very much. And I walked
back across the street to my house, washed my
hands, and I had to sit down because this is
not my thing. And I go, I don't want to move
for like 20 or 30 minutes. This is not my thing.
But I did what I needed to do in the situation.
And I felt proud about that. Yeah, absolutely.
I think, you know, I would like to think that
the majority of people are going to try and help
another person who is in need. And, right, if
you've got a little bit of training and you understand
what is the right thing to do, what's the correct
thing, I don't mean morally right, but the technically
correct thing to do. you're far more likely to
do it than if you've never entertained that thought,
you've never practiced with it, you've never
seen it. And so, you know, so where do I get
that training, right? Like the American Red Cross
does first aid classes. Sometimes your YMCA will
do first aid classes. Sometimes your local fire
department will do first aid classes. You can
look, you know, in your community and see what
organizations. But the Stop the Bleed campaign,
if you go to the Stop the Bleed website, you
can search for classes. And a lot of those are
free. There will be people who do the Stop the
Bleed classes for free. You can purchase the
equipment from them or another place. But the
training is available. I encourage, like when
we were at SHOT Show. I encourage everybody that
I talk to that owned a gun range or a gun store
and people that teach like they're shooting instructors.
And especially if they're teaching concealed
carry, I encourage them to consider bringing
a stop the bleed course as part of their, you
know, as part of the training that they offer.
And, you know, Obviously, some of this is business,
right? Because we sell medical stuff. So I want
you to sell my medical stuff. But I think it's
important for people to at least have the opportunity
to purchase good, reliable, safe medical equipment.
Because like you mentioned, Craig, you can go
and buy four tourniquets for $17 or $18 on Amazon
and they're crap. They are 3D printed in an adversarial
country. They're not quality equipment. They
will fail. I would not trust my life to them.
And if a person needed to, well, if they felt
the need to get maybe a little bit more training,
let's say I want to use hemostatic gauze or a
chest seal or something like that, that maybe
is outside the boundaries of the stop the bleed,
you know, training and equipment. If they want
to go that next level, I'm assuming that there
are probably plenty of resources that would give
you that as well. Because like, for example,
I've heard the hemostatic gauze is almost as
problematic misused as it would be if you didn't
use it in the first place. I'm not sure about
that. I've not heard that. I do know that packing
a wound, being trained how to pack a wound, is
part of the Stop the Bleed campaign. So you can,
in extremis, in an emergency situation, if you've
got nothing else, I'm going to rip up your shirt
and I'm going to stuff that wound. Because we
say you need to fill the bowl. Now, in most of
your civilian encounters, you're probably talking
about handguns, maybe shotguns, so we'll assume
not slugs, but you're not going to have the same
sort of tissue damage that you would get with
a high -velocity rifle round, right? Something
that's... Like multiple times the speed of sound,
like 2 ,000 or 3 ,000 feet per second, like an
AR -15 or an AK -47. It causes a large cavitation
event. Yeah. Those smaller bullets are really
slower bullets. That's the issue. It's the speed
more than the size when it comes to the cavitation.
They're going to cause a lot less tissue trauma.
You're going to get a lot less, probably get
a lot less cavitation. And so you can pack that
wound easier. Packing a wound in somebody is
going to be painful to that person, right? So,
I mean, that's just a thing to consider, but
that's the important thing that you need to do.
If you don't have a tourniquet or you don't think
the bleeding is bad enough that it needs a tourniquet
but they're still bleeding, then you've got to
pack the wound. You've got to fill that cavity
so that you can apply proper pressure. Or hopefully
you've got a hemostatic dressing where you're
going to have some sort of chemical reaction
with the blood or the tissue that's going to
create the clot for you. Okay, so Dr. Onufar,
in the pre -show discussion, you had mentioned
that Stop the Bleed had a correlation to, even
though Stop the Bleed month is May, you said
it ought to be March. And I guess that is also
an acronym for something. Can you explain that,
please? Sure. So with tactical combat casualty
care, which Stop the Bleed grew out of, the acronym
we use is MARCH. Those are your initial life
-saving steps. So M is massive external hemorrhage.
That needs to be treated with a tourniquet. So
massive external hemorrhage. A is airway, making
sure that the patient can breathe. R is respirations.
And the injury that we're typically taking care
of there is a sucking chest wound and really
a tension pneumothorax. So we can talk more about
those two things later. C is circulation. So
that's where I'm going to start replacing blood
that you've lost. And then H is head injuries
and hypothermia. Initially it was just hypothermia.
And then, you know, we rolled H's in head injuries
as well. So hypothermia, low body temperature.
is a big deal in trauma. It's part of a collection
of things that happen to your body that can cause
severe injury and death. So March, when we talk
TC3, Tactical Combat Casualty Care, when you
say March and TC3, those are kind of synonymous
for those of us that do this thing. You may see
other acronyms. Some people will say C -A -B
-C or X -A -B -C, but it's basically March. It's
basically the same thing. X would be external
hemorrhage. C would be control the bleeding,
whatever. But that's why I said stop the bleed
month should be March, not May. I don't know
why they made it May. Yeah, and as you were talking,
I was trying to come up with an acronym for May,
and I was struggling with that. The only thing
I got was, The why, which would be, yo, sucker's
dead. And that was about it. So now if people
want to, you know, they're invigorated and they
want to go get themselves a kit, but we don't
know what a kit looks like. And by the way, I
will mention to our listeners that Frugal Firearms
podcast has some rules for our guests. Rule number
seven is that. You have to allow us to become
familiar with a product that we're going to be
discussing because, A, talking about a product
that we have no knowledge of is unethical. And,
B, we can't have a very intelligent conversation
about something if we're simply not familiar
with it. So nothing on this show is ever products
that we're unfamiliar with. kind of stepped aside
from that one in this case because ken and i
were discussing and you know i would love to
have taken some of rescue essentials equipment
and tried it out on ken but he wasn't volunteering
willing to get shot no no the chest seals the
hemostatic gauze the tourniquets none of it he
wasn't signing up for any of this and i i think
he's derelict in in his responsibilities as a
show host for not volunteering thusly but no
we did not test rescue essentials gear prior
to you coming on this show because we couldn't
find an adequate volunteer and i wasn't doing
myself yes but um so doctor what do you think
you know What's a reasonable based on cost and
based on volume? Because if it's too big a kit,
people ain't carrying it. What would you recommend?
And maybe prioritize that. Like if you're going
to carry one thing, carry this. And then if the
kit expands, you get more stuff. Sure. Yeah.
So if you've got one thing to carry, it's a tourniquet.
That is the thing that is most likely going to
save someone. from bleeding to death in any kind
of traumatic emergency right um and when i say
tourniquet i mean a limb tourniquet right so
bleeding from the extremities arms and legs if
you've got if if you're bleeding from your abdomen
or your chest that's a whole lot harder to fix
we in the medical profession combat medics and
doctors and PAs that go in the field with combat
troops, we have a tough time controlling those
things. So I'm not expecting anybody to do that.
But extremity hemorrhage, which that's part of
what we consider preventable death, a tourniquet
is the first most important thing for you to
have. So again, thinking about this in the March
algorithm. Actually, let me take a quick step
back because one of the other things when you
ask like, okay, what kind of equipment should
I have? I think about three things in particular.
One, what's my population at risk, right? So
who are the people that are going to potentially
be injured? How many of them, right? That's the
thing I want to think about. What kind of health
risks do I have? In this particular situation,
right, these are my general rules. In this particular
situation, I'm first and foremost worried about
me, right? I'm worried about me getting shot
or hurt, and I need to save my own life. And
so that's the first thing. So what's my population
at risk? My next question is, what are those
hazards? What are the hazards that this person,
and this is when you're building any medical
kit, right? Or any emergency kit, right? These
are the things that I think about. So what are
the hazards or the threats? What are the things
that I'm worried about? And again, in this situation,
I'm worried about high velocity metal. I'm worried
about a bullet or a fragment, like piercing my
body and making me bleed. And then the third
thing is, what is your capability? What's your
level of training? And what can you do? So it
would be foolish for me to recommend a medical
device that you've never been trained on or a
medical device that requires a specially trained
medical person to use. So I would not recommend
that any one of your listeners, I would recommend
against. any of your listeners who don't have
specific medical training carrying a needle for
needle decompression of a chest injury, right?
That's an invasive medical procedure that has
significant risks if you do it wrong. I don't
know if good Samaritan laws would cover you.
So I would, I would not recommend that anybody
carry one of those unless they have been trained,
like they're an EMT or a paramedic, but a battle
dressing, um, hemostatic agent. and certainly
a tourniquet those are things that i would recommend
that that people should carry so for those items
if those are the top line items what does a person
expect to spend on that kit and i mean obviously
you know rescue essentials is the source we're
promoting here because you guys have right you
know only quality gear and not the you know the
3d printed you know, from adversarial country,
you know, stuff that looks the same as the quality
tourniquet, but in fact is not. So in looking
at several of the kits that we have, if you want,
we'll call an IFAC, an individual first aid kit.
If you want an IFAC that's got everything, like
let's say you're an EMT or you've been through,
you know, a course and you know how to do, you
know how to put on a chest seal and pack a wound
and all that stuff. one of those kits is probably
going to cost you in the neighborhood of $100
or more. Now, you can, depending on what you
have access to and what you already have in your
medical kit at home or what you can purchase
in the pharmacy near your home or whatever, you
can get an IFAK in a nylon pouch that's been
sewn and that makes it really easy to carry,
or you can buy a refill. So all that stuff will
come in a Ziploc bag. And that may be a little
less money, and that way you can stash it in
your everyday carry gear as you see fit. But
I would say the minimum things that you want
to have, again, tourniquet, first most important
thing. The next would be hemostatic gauze, and
then the third thing after that would be some
sort of bandage or wrap or pressure dressing
that you can wrap around an extremity to hold
that gauze in place. Those are the three most
important things. What types of tourniquets?
Oh, scissors. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, scissors
are really helpful to cut away clothing and remove
to expose the wound so that you can properly
treat it. I would recommend against using a pocket
knife to shred open somebody's clothes, especially
in that crisis situation. Lots of adrenaline
moving really fast and strong. There's a risk
of you stabbing, you know, your patient. That's
not true. Not a good idea. If you've never been
trained how to put a nasal pharyngeal airway
in an airway that goes in a person's nose, if
you've never been trained to do that, don't try
it and don't carry it. But the gauze, yeah. And
so most of these first aid kits, like right now,
our compact first aid kit, which... doesn't have
the hemostatic gauze, but does have regular gauze,
regular gauze, it's on sale for like 70 bucks.
And that actually comes with a nylon pouch. So
that's a pretty good deal. And by the way, listeners,
I will point out that Dr. Onifer, if you listen
to the end of the show, has offered graciously
a 10 % discount on Rescue Essentials gear, a
good to the end of the year, not just to the
end of May here, which is, oh, by the way. In
two days. But good to the end of the year. And
I did want to point out, it would be easy to
overlook this. If people are following along
and looking for Rescue Essentials, you can certainly
just Google that. But the URL is rescue -essentials
.com. So rescue -essentials .com is their homepage.
Now, unfortunately, the kits that are on sale,
I don't think that discount code will work with
the kits on sale. But you're actually saving
more money with the sale price. They're anywhere
from 15 % to 20 % off. There are stop the bleed
kits as well. The stop the bleed advanced kit
has everything we talked about. It has a tourniquet.
It has some quick clot gauze. It has some regular
gauze. It's got a trauma dressing. It's got a
chest seal. It's even got a hypothermia blanket.
It's got gloves. That's another thing you might
want to consider having is gloves. You can get
You can get all the stuff for under $100. Yeah.
Compare that to the cost of, I mean, geez. It's
nothing. A few boxes of ammunition. You save
somebody's life. I mean. Yeah. Or your own. It's
an investment. And again, you're more likely
to use this stuff than you probably are to use
your gun or at least to fire your gun. Like I
said, you may brandish your gun. or just expose
it and let somebody know, hey, F around and find
out, right? But when it comes to actually pulling
the trigger in an extremist situation, I think
statistically speaking, that's a lot less likely
to happen than for you in any context to come
across somebody who's bleeding. You're right.
And it's been said time and time again, and people
just don't unfortunately seem to listen to the
message. And they're probably left with a great
deal of regret when they could have saved someone's
life and they didn't. How hard is it for a person
to use their IFAC on themselves? I mean, I imagine
you have to try to maybe experiment a little
bit with this. So as far as tourniquets, right,
we train for self -application. We train to put
them on other people, but we also train to put
them on ourselves, right? That's an important
part of training with a tourniquet. And the overwhelming
majority of your tourniquets are what we call
windless tourniquets, right? So it's a strap
with a bar that's fed through the strap, and
you twist the bar, and then it locks in place.
A properly applied tourniquet hurts. Like, after
a little while... It's going to probably be your
10 out of 10 pain, which means I'm not thinking
about much of anything else right now except
this tourniquet hurts really bad. So once you
get that on, you're probably not going to be
doing a whole lot much else. But the tourniquet
is actually not particularly hard to put on.
Coming from the perspective of being in the military
where you've got relatively fit, relatively strong
people. Being able to crank that windlass and
get it to the right tension isn't that hard.
My mom, who is in her 70s and has carpal tunnel
and arthritis in her hands, not going to happen.
She's not going to spin a windlass. So there
are other kinds of tourniquets that use a ratchet
mechanism, a mechanical advantage, which can
be used for people who don't have that kind of
strength. So I'm going to talk mostly about windlass
tourniquets because those are the most common
ones that you find. The other thing that's an
issue with the application of the tourniquet
is that when you put it on and you pull that
strap and you cinch it down before you even start
to spin that windlass, you've got to take out
all the slack and have good tension before you
start because otherwise you're going to start
spinning that windlass in the air and you may
run out of nylon. to spin before you get proper
tension if you start with the tourniquet loose.
And that's why one of my favorite tourniquets
is the SAM XT, SAM medical tourniquet, because
it has a pre -tensioning mechanism. You pull
on that and it catches a latch and it pops and
it puts these two little teeth into the strap
to lock it in place to let you know that, hey,
I've got adequate tension and I'm not going to
lose it. It won't slip out. And then just two
or so turns of the windlass will usually make
it work. I was going to say, besides cheap ones,
are there any styles that you would recommend
against using? Something that's just purely...
So, okay. So there's a couple of tourniquets
that are like bungee cords. I would not use that.
The tourniquet, the width of the tourniquet strap
needs to be at least an inch and a half. The
data that we have... And you can find some tourniquets
that have a narrower strap than that. But an
inch and a half is typically the minimum width
of the strap that you need. Otherwise, it increases
the pain and it increases the risk of injuring
that healthy tissue under the strap. You get
what we call tissue necrosis. So the skin gets
damaged if the strap is too narrow because it
applies the pressure. It applies too linear a
force. A wider strap actually helps distribute
that force better. It probably occludes, closes
off the blood vessel better and it probably hurts
less as well. Like if I took a blood pressure
cuff, if you have a blood pressure cuff, you
have a turn. Right. You put that blood pressure
cuff on and you pump it all the way up to like
200 or 250 and you've got a tourniquet and that's
uncomfortable. Yes, it is. But it doesn't hurt
as much as like a cat. right a combat application
tourniquet or a sam xt or a softy a special operations
forces tourniquet right so those those straps
like but a but a blood pressure cuff is big and
bulky and expensive and cumbersome right it weighs
a lot well no one's walking around with those
right exactly so a decent tourniquet A good reliable
tourniquet is probably going to cost you between
$25 and $45. I'll say between $30 and $40 typically.
But some of them you can get them for a little
cheaper than that, like depending on the store
and maybe if they have a sale. But if you're
paying like $15 or less for a tourniquet, chances
are good I don't know that I could trust it.
Like I said, unless it's on sale. Like, hey,
it's normally $40 and we're getting rid of them.
because a new generation of tourniquet has come
out, something like that. But typically, cheap
tourniquets are not something I would rely on.
I was just going to say, I've been looking at
the cat tourniquet, and it seems like every time
I look at them again, and I have several of them,
but it comes out and it goes, oh, now up to Gen
3, Gen 4, Gen 5. I think there's a Gen 7 now.
And I'm like, 7? What was wrong with 6? I don't
know. I'm glad they're improving it, though.
Yeah, I think the big thing with seven from six
to seven was reinforcement of the windlass to
make sure that the windlass didn't break. So
again, the likelihood of a tourniquet, if you
take a tourniquet out of the wrapper and it's
not been sitting in like triple digit heat in
the middle of the desert for the last six years.
Right. But you take and you have a new tourniquet
that's been in your everyday carry bag for the
last year or so. It's still wrapped in the plastic
or it's in a nylon case. Right. So that it's
not exposed to the elements and the tissue, the
tissue, the nylon, the fabric hasn't been rubbing
up against something and degrading. That tourniquet
is going to work. Now, if you take that out every
Saturday and you practice with it a couple of
times after a while, you're going to get breakdown
of the material. It will still probably work.
But I wouldn't, like I said before, I wouldn't
want my training tourniquet to be my life -saving
tourniquet. And remember, folks, this is frugal
firearms, not cheap firearms. And if you consider
the value proposition of, if some people are
squeamish about spending a few hundred dollars
on a medical kit, I guarantee you, when you see
your own blood spilling out on the floor, you're
going to be thinking, yeah, you know, maybe I'd
spend a couple hundred dollars to put that blood,
you know, keep that blood in me. Best money you
can spend is on a good unit, yeah. So I carry
– I typically carry a satchel that I have my
everyday carry kit in, right? And because I'm
a concealed carry guy, I have a tourniquet. I
have a chest seal. I have a needle for needle
decompression because I know how to do that.
And I have all the things in there to treat March.
And people gave me a hard time. They were like,
you know, your man purse. I'm like, it's a satchel.
And they said, it's a man purse. And I'm like
– and I opened it up and I said, man purse does
not have – this and i start laying out my tourniquet
and my chest seal and my trauma shears right
and all this stuff this is a satchel jack bauer
carries a satchel i carry a satchel right and
so fast forward there's a group of us for uh
we're on a trip for a medical at a medical conference
and we went to a walmart and i'm walking through
walmart and this guy comes walking by and he's
got blood on his hands and you know he's walking
towards me he's a walmart employee and i said
sir are you okay do you need help And he says,
it's not my blood, it's her blood. And he just
storms off. I'm like, okay, I don't know what
that means, but I follow his blood trail. And
we get to the produce section, and there's this
elderly woman who has tripped over the banana
cart. Didn't trip on a banana peel, but she caught
her foot on the wheel of the banana cart and
fell down, hit her head, and now she's got a
scalp wound. And scalp wounds bleed like stink.
So she's bleeding all over the place. I kneel
down. I said, hi, my name's Dana. I'm a doctor.
Can I help? And, you know, she says, you know,
I get permission from the patient to assist her.
And I turned to one of the Walmart employees
and I said, has somebody called 911? They said,
yes. And I said, do you guys have a first aid
kit? They said, yes, somebody's going to get
it. Because I have my satchel, I have my stuff,
but I don't want to use my stuff. I don't have
to. And so they come and they bring their first
aid kit and their trauma bandage looks like a,
you know, a woman's sanitary napkin. It's not.
The equipment that's in their first aid kit is
not very helpful to me at the moment. So I sigh
and I reach into my bag and I pull out my nice
Israeli trauma bandage. And I wrap her head with
the trauma bandage. And EMS shows up and I give
them a report. And they're looking at me like,
okay, who the heck are you? And I tell them I'm
a military doctor. And they're like, oh, okay,
cool. And I walk off and I go meet my friends
out in the car. And they're like, what the heck
took you so long? And I was like. This lady split
her head open and was bleeding on the floor.
I'm like, what'd you do? I'm like, I went into
my satchel and got my trauma bandage and I stopped
her bleeding. Satchel. Well done, sir. Well done.
So it happens every now and again. And, you know,
my wife and I, I was trying on a sports coat
in a really nice store. We were in Vegas for
another conference. And I put it on and I'm like,
it fits, but the sleeves are kind of short. I'm
like moving around and everything. And the guy's
like, you know, lots of, lots of guys come in
here, sir. And they, you know, they swing their
arms around, but really how, when you're, when
you're wearing a sports coat like that, when
you're all dressed up, like how often do you
really need to do that kind of thing? And I look
at my wife and she looks at me and she looks
at him and she's like, yeah, he gets himself
into stuff all the time, you know? So I just,
because, because I've been trained to respond
to crisis. It's a thing I've been doing. I've
been doing emergency medicine since I was 16,
and I volunteered as an EMT when I was a kid.
So I've been doing this for a long time. It's
my natural inclination. And I say that because
I think a lot of the people, back to some of
your previous questions, I think a lot of the
people that are going to be concealed carry holders
who are actually going to engage an adversary
in a crisis situation are the kinds of people.
And I may be – I know that I'm chronically optimistic,
but I think they're the kind of people who are
going to respond to any kind of crisis, to any
kind of emergency, and they're going to want
to help people and do the right thing, right?
Because they're Americans. That's what we do,
right? So I think it's – again, just back to
I think it's really important that people know,
if nothing else, whatever other first aid or
medical you need to – you learn, right? Learn
how to put on a tourniquet. Learn how to do CPR.
And if I had to choose between those two, I would
want to learn how to put on a tourniquet. You
did not mention in the March, well, it's not
part of the acronym, but something that we see
in the deserts around Southern California, and
I think across the South, and I'm not saying
it's just a West Coast or Southwest thing, but
maybe they're not life -threatening, but for
some people they might be, bee stings and venomous
snake bites. Is that something worth adding to
the EDC? I would say... Like those little suction
things or something? No. So let's go with pee
stings first. If you're someone, if you know
that you have anaphylaxis, you get all swollen
and you get the rash and you have trouble breathing,
you need to carry an EpiPen. I would not recommend
that someone carries an EpiPen to use on an innocent
bystander, someone that they don't know. Again,
that... that you can kill somebody by giving
them an inappropriate dose of epinephrine. So
I would not recommend that for use on someone
else. I would recommend you carrying that if
you need it or if your kid needs it, then yes.
My wife gets hit with fire ants, and the last
time that happened, she was in an ambulance.
So I have an EpiPen. My son, he's been stung
and bit by something. He got bit by a black widow.
Nothing happened. So, like, he's kind of impervious.
I did a little experiment when he was about four
or five. We were walking through the woods, and
I was teaching him about poison oak and poison
ivy, and I took a poison ivy leaf, and I rubbed
a little bit on his leg just to see if he had
the rash because not everybody's sensitive to
it. He didn't get a rash. I did, right? So when
it comes to, like, you know, bee stings, like
venomous insects, if you know that you're allergic,
carry an EpiPen, and your doctor will prescribe
those for you. And most insurance companies,
especially if you've got a documented allergy,
they'll cover that. When it comes to snakes,
all that cut the wound and suck the blood and
all that stuff, no, don't do any of that. So
the only real treatment for snake bites is antivenom.
So what you want to do is, if at all possible,
you keep the bit extremity, you keep it lower
than the heart, you keep the patient relaxed.
so that they're not aggressively circulating
their blood. If you can carry them out of that
environment, right, that's what you want to do.
And no tourniquet, right? No tourniquet. Now,
for neurotoxic snakes, is that the coral snake?
Probably coral snake. Yeah. Yeah, so not, what's
the word I'm looking for? Rattlesnakes, what
is that? Right. Yeah, so not those vipers. Yeah.
So not vipers. But for the neurotoxic snakes,
which are pretty uncommon here in the U .S.,
but for those you put a tourniquet on because
you want to restrict the bleeding. Now, if you're
going to put a tourniquet on an extremity, you've
got to put a tourniquet on. You don't want to
put on what we call a venous tourniquet where
you prevent blood from returning to the heart,
but you don't stop blood from going in, right?
So you're closing off the veins, which are much
lower pressure. but you're leaving the arteries
open, which are much higher pressure, because
then what happens is you start building up blood
in that vessel, and you can cause what we call
compartment syndrome, which can be devastating
to the muscle in that limb and requires surgical
correction when it happens. It potentially leads
to amputation. So if you're going to put a tourniquet
on, you're going to put a tourniquet on. But
that's only if you're treating a neurotoxic snake,
and that's pretty uncommon. So, like I said,
sucking out the blood, those little suction cup
doohickeys, we in medicine do not recommend those.
And the ones that are like syringes that actually,
those are no good either? No. Okay. Are there
any other misconceptions about EDC gear that
are common? I thought you were going to say any
misconceptions about medicine. No, no, no, no,
no. Misconceptions about the narrow topic of
EDC gear that you should set aside. You know,
the other thing, too, is I've got all this trauma
gear. I've got a trauma kit in my car. I've got
a trauma kit in my satchel. I've got a trauma
kit in my van. I've got one at home. I've got
one in my range bag. But what's the thing that
happens all the time? Little cuts and scrapes,
right? So when you have your trauma, like in
my EDC, you can get a little mint tin. Or, you
know, a little Band -Aid box. Put some Band -Aids
in there. You can put some antiseptic wipes in
there to clean off the skin. Not a big fan of
triple antibiotic ointment. Really Vaseline just
to cover the skin. If you've got a normal immune
system for a fresh wound, the most important
thing is to irrigate it. Just use low pressure
water. You get a water bottle, like a 500 milliliter,
you know, bottle of drinking water. Use your
knife, poke a couple of holes in the top. so
that you got a little irrigation there clean
out the wound and uh and then just you know bandage
you're good to go where you can buy like steri
strips or skin closure things so taking care
of minor injuries is is important because those
happen a lot more often okay so rescue essentials
gear is your uh your affiliation uh any other
things on the website that you want to point
out you know specifically you know certain products
that people might find of interest or something
like that and by the way listeners i mean you
know dr onifer's you know spent a good deal of
time with us today it is a fantastic show and
uh honestly they deserve your business i mean
you we've already talked about the fact they
have stuff on sale at the end of the show i'll
reveal the um discount code that he has generously
offered. I would strongly recommend you go to
their site and browse. But when you're filling
that cart up with stuff to buy, the discount
code he offered is a one -time use. So you want
to make sure you fill the cart completely so
you get the 10 % off on the things that are not
sale items. So any other product highlights you'd
like to bring to their attention? So it's actually
a really good website. When you go to the main
page up across the top, you know you've got drop
-downs for medical kits, components, hardware,
all sorts of stuff. But if you click on, say,
medical kits and you say, oh, let's see here,
school and public access, then you can refine
that. There's a search engine that will help
you refine that. How many patients do I want
to treat? How do I want to carry that? What tourniquet
do I want to use? And so the website will help
you to select because there's a ton of options.
We will custom build kits for various agencies
and organizations, military, federal, local,
state, all of them. And if it's a good kit design,
we'll keep it on the website because somebody
else might want it too, right? Rather than building
a brand new custom design and say, oh, wait,
we really like that Border Patrol kit that you
guys have. And so we've got some that are designed
specifically for concealed carry. So you can
search the website and check that stuff out.
Yeah, and I'm actually doing that right now.
One thing, I've never seen this before, the T
-ring finger cut kit. And because I was talking
about my daughter being a woodworker and, you
know, losing a finger in a table saw could happen
easily. And this thing, I'm actually going to
buy some of these for my daughter here. Using
your 10 % discount, of course. Yeah, that's the,
like, it's basically like a red plastic ring.
Yeah, it's a red circle thing and you just push
it right on. Yeah, yeah, it just slides right
over your finger. It works really well. As we
close out here, without grossing out us, your
hosts, or the listener base, you got any funny,
entertaining, anecdotal stories you'd like to
share? I was thinking about that. You probably
have a hundred of them, right? Well, I've got
a bunch of stories that I don't know how appropriate
they would be for the general audience. They
involve bodily fluids and things like that. Real
quick, back to when you were talking about people
being squeamish and stuff like that. Again, that's
where training helps. When you do a stop the
bleed course, you're going to learn how to pack
a wound with a wound packing model that should
have fake blood in it, so you're going to get
a little bit of exposure. When I do that, I like
to warm up the blood simulation. I'll put it
in a crock pot for a while so it's nice and warm.
It gets people kind of wigged out. I was thinking,
what's a funny story, like a medical story? I
had a hard time coming up with one. I don't know
how related to any of this is, probably not at
all. When I was a corpsman and when I first started
with Marine Force Recon and I was going through
the... what's called the basic reconnaissance
course it's the primary school to learn that
stuff and we were on a patrol and the short version
of that story is we got really wet and really
cold and we weren't supposed to have gotten really
wet and so as we're moving down this draw down
into this little valley and the temperature's
dropping and we're dropping down below the fog
layer and it's like miserable and the guy behind
me he's like doc what he's like spoon like heck
yeah Right. And so we get into our patrol base
and me and this guy are snuggled like nut to
butt for the rest of the night. We took MRE heaters
and put them in between us because on these patrols
you travel, you know, we say travel light freeze
at night. And so we spent that night. It was
the Wednesday night before Thanksgiving. And
we spent Wednesday night before Thanksgiving
snuggled up nut to butt. Were you little spoon
or big spoon? We would rotate. We would rotate.
So that was. November of 1992. Fast forward,
sometime 2018, I'm teaching faculty in the family
medicine residency program at Camp Lejeune Naval
Hospital. And I'm rounding in the morning with
my interns and residents. And we go in there
to see this female patient. And we're talking
to her and her husband's standing next to her
at the bedside. And I look at him and he looks
at me. And we kind of look at each other and
he's like, Dana? I'm like, Gary? And we both
went, holy cow. And he turns to his wife and
he says, this is the guy I spooned with. So I'm
like, hey, I'm not the only one who celebrated
that as a wonderful moment of male bonding. And
her reaction was? She just looked at him and
was like, you still tell that story. Any appearances
you have coming up, Dr. Onifer, either other
websites you want to promote or, you know, just
this is your free time to promote yourself a
little further. Rescue Essentials is where you
will frequently find Rescue Essentials at EMS
and fire rescue and police trade shows. you know,
around the country and honestly around the world,
but you know, all around the country. So we,
I'm not the only one. There's a bunch of people
that will be, you know, at the table somewhere.
I tend to focus on the military stuff. So. Sounds
good. All right. Hey, well, this has been an
outstanding show. We want to thank you for your
time again. We'll, we'll go ahead and reveal
it. Now the rescue essentials. 10 % discount
code, good until the end of the calendar year,
is very simply frugal10. And 10 is the digits,
one, zero. So you go there, you help them out,
give them a little bit of love for spending the
time to get you guys ready for the real world,
quite frankly. Indeed. We'd very much like to
thank Dr. Onifer for coming on and sharing his
experiences with us, especially with those of
us who are less medically inclined. Given some
tremendous points and things that I'm going to
be thinking about and definitely things I'm going
to be purchasing from Rescue Essentials that
will assist those of us who are into firearm
shooting sports as well as those who are woodworkers.
Because there's a lot of very stop the bleed.
I think it's probably the single most important
thing we really ought to start focusing on. So,
Craig, what did you think? Well, I mean, do you
drive a car? I mean, that's another area where
there's a lot of opportunity to use this knowledge
that we don't have because both of us probably,
I mean, hell, he talked about being through the
Stop the Bleed courses. I mean, I damn near pass
out in those courses. I'm so bad at this. It's
not my thing. No, it's not our thing at all.
But I do believe that a person can rise to the
occasion, as I thought I did. As you did. Yes.
I rose to the occasion. I got everything in a
held her, held her. She's not bleeding, bleeding
out, call the paramedics and the handed over
to paramedics. And then I just, okay, I'm going
to go sit down and wash up and sit down because
more than I want to do. There you go. So what
we're good at, you and I, we're good at podcasting.
We're good. And to our listeners, Hey, if you
like that content, you like the quality of the
people we have coming on. And by the way, I got
a couple really good ones that are just on the
cusp of, of, of being featured. Yeah, that like
and subscribe thing that takes you like two seconds
to do, like by hitting a button, do that because
that helps the algorithm get us more notoriety.
by the way as the audience size grows we get
better participants and when we get better participants
you listeners get better shows so indeed how
do you find the the website is easy frugalfirearmspodcast
.com very simple if you want to reach out to
us frugal firearms podcast at gmail .com see
we've made this very easy and uh again you know
tell your friends and by the way to talk about
word of mouth there's been a number of downloads
just in the last few weeks that you know i haven't
really been posting very much and they're just
happening welcome to new listeners in singapore
in poland on the tropical island of guam across
various places in europe now we did have one
that i think it may have simply been where someone
had their vpn located but we had one in algeria
that mapped out in the sahara desert i think
so i don't know if some person was just bored
and had a you know satellite link and wanted
whatever yeah riding their camel across algeria
but i mean no disrespect to people in algeria
if you want to listen we welcome you but but
i was suspect that that one could have simply
been a vpn uh location that someone else shows
yeah yeah but yeah do get the word out because
honestly again it helps you guys you know help
us help you get better shows so with that i think
we're about done uh next one's coming up there
is a One of my favorite optics companies is going
to be featured very soon. Look for that coming
up. And another one, hopefully quite soon, from
a company that's not normally thought of as a
frugal option, but they absolutely are, a very
high -end trigger manufacturer. So be looking
for those shows as well. Anything else to close
out there, Ken? That'll do it. I appreciate your
time, everyone. See you soon. All right. Good
night, folks. Tomorrow, I'm wasting eight hours
learning stuff I already know to do my CCW course.
Thank you very much. You know, you should move
to America. Yeah, a free state. You know what?
I think it's a case of you can run, but you can't
hide.