WEBVTT

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The odds of them showing up and saying, well,

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this looks pretty good. See, you know, got it.

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Saw what you did. All good, man. Go home. Have

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a nice day. And it's not exactly going to work

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like that. Welcome to episode 16 of the Frugal

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Firearms podcast, the podcast designed to help

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you enjoy the shooting sports and save money

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at the same time. But today's topic is going

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to be really about saving money in ways that,

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unfortunately, most people haven't thought about.

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When you think about trying to be frugal, you

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might be thinking about, you know, can I save

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$100 here? Can I get a good deal there? Maybe

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I get some free stuff here. Well, have you thought

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about bankruptcy? Have you thought about not

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being able to put your kids through college?

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Have you thought about jail? Have you thought

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about all the things that might go along with

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what you think is a justified shooting, but get

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you all those other unintended consequences?

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And what are the statistics? If you're a concealed

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carrier, you probably will never have to actually

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use that weapon at anger. That's just the reality.

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What if you do? What's the probability that you're

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going to end up in court, either in civil court,

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criminal court, or both as a result of that?

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What happens if it's in your home? What happens

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if it's not even a firearm? How are you going

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to protect yourself from bankruptcy, from changing

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your life, from things that go along with financial

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stress like divorce, loss of assets, loss of

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your job? How are you going to save yourself

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from that happening to you? I say this a lot,

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that we have important shows. Today might be

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the most important show in an individual context.

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So first off, I'm going to bring on my co -host

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as always, Ken. Ken, say hello to our guests.

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And why don't you go ahead and do the introduction

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of our guests today? Okay. Hi, this is Ken. I'm

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here to welcome Kent Brown, who's going to be

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talking to us about CCW Safe. This is something

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that's a topic I think that's extremely important.

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Any CCW carrier has to have a company standing

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behind them because I know personally as I approach

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retirement, you're trying to look and see how

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your finances are going to last for the next

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30 years. And if something were to happen, you

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need to have a company standing behind you. So

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with that, I'll turn it over to Kent, and I want

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to go ahead and introduce yourself, Kent. Thanks,

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Kaz. First of all, I'm very pleased to be with

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you. It is an important topic, and I'm glad that

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you guys are having us on today to talk about

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it. I know we have a lot of things that we want

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to get through, but it's a real pleasure to be

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with you. So, Kent, tell us a little bit about

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the history of CCW Safe. How did it start? What

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was the inspiration? By the way, I know the answer

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to this because I listened to your excellent.

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Excellent podcast. And in fact, I'm going to

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say it right up front. When you get done listening

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to our podcast, the next one you want to subscribe

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to, listeners, is the CCW Safe podcast because

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it is a wealth of information. And I did hear

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discussed there once the history of the program.

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But for those people who are not familiar with

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the company, first talk about that and then talk

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about your association, which I guess now goes

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back about three years or so. You have been the

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CEO. About three and a half years I've been with

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the company. But yes, the company started in

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2011. And it was really our three founders. Two

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of them were retired Oklahoma City police officers.

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They actually met on their first day at the police

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academy, essentially. It was really the day before.

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And they've been lifelong friends ever since.

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The third founder. it wasn't a had been a police

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officer here in oklahoma for a handful of years

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and then became an attorney and so they were

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all good friends mike darter who was really they

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had the original idea for the business when he

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was on oklahoma city police he was working in

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an action with atf he was doing gangs and drugs

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and all these other things and anyway they had

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a an arrest warrant and things didn't go well.

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And there was a lot of shooting and Mike ended

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up getting sued for the outcome of that officer

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involved shooting and ended up getting sued in

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civil court, federal civil court and all kinds

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of things. And of course, for your folks who

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are listening, who are police officers, you know,

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the, the FOP, the paternal order of police takes

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really good care of their folks when they're

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in an officer involved shooting, they get. the

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best attorneys they get counselors they get all

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these other things and so it was really the power

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of the resources that mike had access to that

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helped him prevail in those cases so when he

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retired he asked himself well who's going to

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care for me now if something happens to me when

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i'm just out and about in my personal life or

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i'm at home and somebody breaks in and i get

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into this shooting who's going to help me and

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they all got together and Started looking at

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the available services and they thought, well,

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these are really not very good. You know, what

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we got as police officers was so much better

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than what's on the market. And there were really

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only about two guys doing it back then, two or

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three. And so they decided to start the business

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essentially using that police model. that high

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service high expertise you know personal care

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model and bring that to everyday citizens who

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are caring and that was the emphasis to start

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the business in 2011 and it's been growing very

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very rapidly since then and really that the growth

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particularly in 2020 and 2021 the whole industry

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was booming and if you remember the all the social

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unrest and the riots and everything that were

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going on in those years Everybody in the industry

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got even bigger. And so as that was happening

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here at CCW Safe, the partners decided, you know

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what, we need to make sure that we're ready for

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the future of the business and the size that

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it's going to get to and that we're resourced

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correctly. We have all the processes in place

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to take care of people. The bigger we get and

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the scale just gets bigger. And so they started

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to search for somebody to run. the day -to -day

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business, and ensure all of those things. And

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that's really where I came on board because my

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background is in operating businesses, scaling

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things out, putting the correct processes in

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place. They weren't doing anything wrong back

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then. We just really needed to be scaled up and

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ready for the future. And so I was contacted.

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I was a firearms owner. My wife and I were firearms

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owners for self -defense. We weren't carriers.

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and we honestly we didn't even know the industry

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existed which is kind of an interesting thing

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that happens still uh craig and ken is that a

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lot of people who own a firearm and even many

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that carry they don't even know that a service

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like this exists and i can remember when i was

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interviewing to come here my wife said you know

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you have to figure out if that's a good place

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to work and those are the right people to work

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with and for she goes that's up to you she goes

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but we're going to be members. We're going to

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join this thing, even if you don't go to work

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there, because she said, I had no idea that if

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we use these, our firearms and self -defense

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like this, that this kind of stuff could happen

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to us, that I just thought self -defense is self

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-defense. Why in the world would I need an attorney?

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Why in the world would I get arrested if I've

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done all these things correctly and just defending

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myself? And so, so it was an eye opener for us

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then. And of course, and then in the last three

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and a half years, you know, we've The businesses

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continue to grow. We've done all kinds of new

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and exciting things. But we will talk about that.

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The awareness of the industry is still relatively

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low. And you guys know these numbers. So concealed

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carry permits in the U .S. approximately 24 million,

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23, somewhere in that range. Right. Low to mid

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20s. Firearms owners, mid 80 millions, somewhere

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84, 85, 86. If you look at our whole industry

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combined, all the competitors, nobody really

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knows the complete number of people that have

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a service like this. But it's, you know, on the

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high end, maybe two million, probably more like

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a million and a half. But so it's a really low

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percentage. Below 10 percent is what you're I

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mean, probably. Well, when when you talked about

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the number of of people carrying or, you know,

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there's firearms ownership that. You know, gun

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sits in the dresser, never leaves the house.

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And then there's people who have, you know, two

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safes full of guns. And there's all the spectrum

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in between those two things of the people who

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are carrying. Were you including essentially

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the entire population of concealed or of constitutional

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carry states? No, those are actually permanent

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people. Those are just permanent people. So it's

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even bigger, right? So it's even bigger. So is

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the business then? I mean, I don't want to make

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this a show about. the business itself, because

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I just found it entertaining. I didn't know this

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about you, that you were recruited. I found it

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just amazing. You were recruited to a business

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that you didn't actually understand and were

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invested in the industry. That's just so unique

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just by itself. But additionally, that when you're

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trying to look at the landscape, I guess, of

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the opportunity space for how many people are

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out there. We're really talking about if you

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consider people carrying in constitutional carry

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states well below the percentage that you even

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implied. Right. And how many of those people,

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I mean, Ken and I have talked about this before.

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Sure. The number of people who seek out professional

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training above and beyond what is necessary to

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qualify for your permit is. Too small. Way too

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small. Way too small. yeah way too small but

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the whole thing you're talking about the constitutional

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carry states which i'm i'm ecstatic that we're

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moving more and more i think we're what 28 or

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29 states now that are constitutional carry that's

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right and the fact that most of probably the

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vast majority of people there think hey it's

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constitutional carry no problemo which is true

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however you have a potential legal exposure that

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they may be utterly unaware of And that's where

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you got to have some company standing behind

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you. You got to have somebody in your court,

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in your corner. Yeah. So that's the history.

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That's how I got here. I've been here three and

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a half years. So I have learned a tremendous

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amount. And I'm happy to share more about the

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company and answer all these great questions

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that you guys have about how we work and how

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the industry works. So how many people think

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that they, how do I phrase this? I'm just exercising

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my rights. You know, castle doctrine. I shot

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a guy coming into my house. You have to purchase

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this, obviously, before the incident occurs.

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It's not afterwards. It's kind of like getting

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the vaccine before you get the disease. Yeah,

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for sure. You definitely do, right? I always

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use the different analogy, which is, right, you

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don't, you know, you're hoping you never get

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in a car accident, but you don't get in one and

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then call Allstate or State Farm. sign up, right?

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It's over. Too late. You know, we don't sell

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insurance, but the principle is similar in terms

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of you just need to be a member. Now, people

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who are members, right, they're not just hopefully

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not just waiting on whether they have an incident

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or not because we have a tremendous amount of

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educational and training resources for them to

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partake in and hopefully make them more educated

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about self -defense, learn from others, and be

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better prepared should they ever have to face

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it. So whether it's de -escalation or withdrawal

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or whatever the tactics are, there's things that

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we want them to study and learn in case they

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ever do have an incident. And that's really a

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big part of the business, right? I mean, most

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of our members are not going to have an incident.

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So we definitely stress that. We have a weekly

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newsletter that comes out where we're publishing

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new content all the time. And we hopefully...

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They'll never get to the point where they have

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to call us with an emergency. Yeah, absolutely.

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I mean, it would be the last thing I would ever

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want to do. Walk away, back off, leave if possible.

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Yeah, but it's the absolute last resort to protect

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you or your family. You know, other than that,

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everything I have, cars, whatever it might be,

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not worth it. I will try to walk away. The other

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thing is, and people don't know this about when

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you get... The cops show up. Really, anything

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you say, they will start, can and will be used

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against you. So one of the things that I think

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is important is that you know what to do after

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an incident occurs. Obviously, you call the cops

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and you're probably call number two. And then

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you literally say very little or almost nothing

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until you actually are represented by a lawyer.

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Yes, it's really true. You know, I would say

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when I speak to people about, you know, what

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what's the first thing I should do after this

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incident occurs? The first thing is, you know,

00:13:54.120 --> 00:13:57.159
make sure that you're safe. Right. Sometimes

00:13:57.159 --> 00:14:01.720
you're still near the person or, you know, whatever.

00:14:02.259 --> 00:14:03.940
Maybe you've withdrawn. Maybe you have. You've

00:14:03.940 --> 00:14:05.539
got to make sure that you're safe because that's

00:14:05.539 --> 00:14:07.799
the whole purpose of self -defense. And so once

00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:10.039
you've done that, then you want to call 911.

00:14:10.320 --> 00:14:13.860
Absolutely. And by the way, you want to be the

00:14:13.860 --> 00:14:17.899
first to call 911. So if you're involved in an

00:14:17.899 --> 00:14:20.179
incident that's a little lower scale, maybe you

00:14:20.179 --> 00:14:22.720
didn't use your firearm, maybe you used something

00:14:22.720 --> 00:14:25.320
else, you don't want to be the second to call.

00:14:25.460 --> 00:14:28.460
You don't want the attacker to call first because

00:14:28.460 --> 00:14:30.840
sometimes they do. Sometimes they perceive the

00:14:30.840 --> 00:14:33.879
incident very differently. And then the police,

00:14:33.940 --> 00:14:39.100
you know, have been known to have sort of a mental

00:14:39.100 --> 00:14:42.649
preset on, well, This guy called first. So, you

00:14:42.649 --> 00:14:45.309
know, we may presume until we get there that

00:14:45.309 --> 00:14:48.789
they were the victim rather than the second person

00:14:48.789 --> 00:14:51.090
who called. Now, over the long term, that won't

00:14:51.090 --> 00:14:52.590
be the case. They'll sort out what happened.

00:14:52.649 --> 00:14:54.590
But we always want you to be first call 911.

00:14:54.970 --> 00:14:57.929
Then you call us or whomever you might belong

00:14:57.929 --> 00:15:00.590
to. And then, you know, the fourth thing I tell

00:15:00.590 --> 00:15:04.250
people is depending on the circumstances, if

00:15:04.250 --> 00:15:06.070
you're safe or whatever, if it's possible to

00:15:06.070 --> 00:15:07.970
render aid to the person, even though you've

00:15:07.970 --> 00:15:10.250
just had to defend yourself against them. Or

00:15:10.250 --> 00:15:13.110
make sure that when you call 911 that you're

00:15:13.110 --> 00:15:15.570
reporting their injury or the severity of their

00:15:15.570 --> 00:15:18.070
injury so that they can get the right resources

00:15:18.070 --> 00:15:20.529
on the way. So just because you had to defend

00:15:20.529 --> 00:15:23.370
yourself against them, it's still a good idea

00:15:23.370 --> 00:15:25.509
to make sure that they get the care that they

00:15:25.509 --> 00:15:28.070
need. Yeah, that can be an important point in

00:15:28.070 --> 00:15:30.450
a trial, actually, showing that you did have

00:15:30.450 --> 00:15:34.200
a concern for that other person's life. That

00:15:34.200 --> 00:15:36.159
will play well in court, absolutely, I would

00:15:36.159 --> 00:15:38.860
imagine. I don't know if you have any statistics

00:15:38.860 --> 00:15:42.019
on how many juries have been swayed by the after

00:15:42.019 --> 00:15:46.759
-action persona of the person who was actually

00:15:46.759 --> 00:15:50.340
involved in the self -defense incident. Yeah,

00:15:50.360 --> 00:15:52.679
I don't have any statistics on that, but you're

00:15:52.679 --> 00:15:55.740
correct, right? It can absolutely be a factor.

00:15:56.159 --> 00:16:00.179
Just in the same way that fleeing the scene...

00:16:00.539 --> 00:16:02.379
And not reporting it to the police is going to

00:16:02.379 --> 00:16:04.299
be a huge factor. You don't ever want to do that.

00:16:04.399 --> 00:16:06.879
If it's really a self -defense situation, it's

00:16:06.879 --> 00:16:09.580
fine to withdraw and get safe, but you need to

00:16:09.580 --> 00:16:13.500
be calling 911 immediately. You can't just disappear

00:16:13.500 --> 00:16:17.840
and then hope nobody finds out about it. That's

00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:21.620
a terrible strategy. And that will really almost

00:16:21.620 --> 00:16:24.529
preclude you. you know, in some cases from a

00:16:24.529 --> 00:16:26.629
self -defense claim. So you really have to just

00:16:26.629 --> 00:16:30.149
do a few basic things, which is call 911. You

00:16:30.149 --> 00:16:31.669
want to let them know that you're involved in

00:16:31.669 --> 00:16:33.370
a self -defense incident. You want to let them

00:16:33.370 --> 00:16:37.190
know if someone's shot or injured and tell them

00:16:37.190 --> 00:16:39.470
where you are. In some cases, you know, it's

00:16:39.470 --> 00:16:41.389
a good idea. Tell them what you're wearing. Identify

00:16:41.389 --> 00:16:43.549
yourself so that when they get there, they know

00:16:43.549 --> 00:16:45.889
who they're looking for because there's bound

00:16:45.889 --> 00:16:49.139
to be multiple people there. You want to secure

00:16:49.139 --> 00:16:51.240
your firearm or make sure that you're dealing

00:16:51.240 --> 00:16:53.379
with that correctly before the police show up.

00:16:53.419 --> 00:16:55.519
You don't want to be standing there holding your

00:16:55.519 --> 00:16:57.320
gun out in front of you when the police show

00:16:57.320 --> 00:17:00.240
up because they don't know who's who. They're

00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:03.480
trying to protect themselves when they show up.

00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:06.740
So you want to deal with that. We have some resources

00:17:06.740 --> 00:17:08.940
on our website, which will help people with that.

00:17:09.019 --> 00:17:10.680
But, you know, we had a member in an incident

00:17:10.680 --> 00:17:14.039
and he had studied quite a few of our. our resources

00:17:14.039 --> 00:17:16.119
and he got involved in a very serious incident

00:17:16.119 --> 00:17:18.539
and so he knew what to do and he said you know

00:17:18.539 --> 00:17:20.660
when they got there i had the firearm down on

00:17:20.660 --> 00:17:22.700
the sidewalk in front of me i had my hands up

00:17:22.700 --> 00:17:25.680
palms out and i had already identified what i

00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:27.839
was wearing and when they got out of the car

00:17:27.839 --> 00:17:29.839
and they said get on the ground i got on the

00:17:29.839 --> 00:17:31.960
ground face down nowhere near that firearm and

00:17:31.960 --> 00:17:34.619
you know everything turned out great for him

00:17:34.619 --> 00:17:37.180
but in the process they don't know who you are

00:17:37.180 --> 00:17:39.220
what your attentions are so you just because

00:17:39.220 --> 00:17:41.930
you think you're completely justified you still

00:17:41.930 --> 00:17:43.990
have to do some things in a way that give them,

00:17:44.049 --> 00:17:47.349
you know, a peaceful feeling about the situation

00:17:47.349 --> 00:17:50.329
and as much as possible. I mean, obviously, yeah,

00:17:50.390 --> 00:17:54.539
your weapons should be put away. perhaps on the

00:17:54.539 --> 00:17:57.160
ground and do whatever the cop says you know

00:17:57.160 --> 00:17:59.740
all that um anyway i was just about to say as

00:17:59.740 --> 00:18:03.819
a side note as a ccw holder you obviously as

00:18:03.819 --> 00:18:05.900
soon as you get arrested or you may get arrested

00:18:05.900 --> 00:18:08.440
or maybe not but as soon as this process start

00:18:08.440 --> 00:18:11.660
it's it's a it's a year two sometimes it's a

00:18:11.660 --> 00:18:14.619
long process but one of the things about it being

00:18:14.619 --> 00:18:18.200
a ccw holder is that you shouldn't usually only

00:18:18.200 --> 00:18:22.660
have a single firearm on your CCW license, okay?

00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:25.319
You should usually have at least two, sometimes

00:18:25.319 --> 00:18:28.160
three, whatever you have. And the reason is,

00:18:28.299 --> 00:18:33.000
whatever happened in this incident, that firearm

00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:36.980
now becomes evidence and will be taken away from

00:18:36.980 --> 00:18:40.440
you. So if you live in a state that requires

00:18:40.440 --> 00:18:43.720
a CCW and all of a sudden you don't have one

00:18:43.720 --> 00:18:45.920
and maybe you just torqued off the local motorcycle

00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:49.359
gang or whatever it might be, you want to have

00:18:49.799 --> 00:18:51.420
the ability to have something else that's on

00:18:51.420 --> 00:18:54.359
your license but that it that happens right the

00:18:54.359 --> 00:18:57.299
firearm they are going to take the firearm you

00:18:57.299 --> 00:18:59.619
know in it certainly if you've discharged it

00:18:59.619 --> 00:19:02.319
even in cases where it might just be a brandishing

00:19:02.319 --> 00:19:04.880
incident sometimes they'll take it then too and

00:19:04.880 --> 00:19:07.160
it can be difficult to get that returned even

00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:09.359
you know we we just uh we just did one today

00:19:09.359 --> 00:19:12.880
so we have in our program if you're weapon is

00:19:12.880 --> 00:19:15.619
taken, your carry weapon is taken in your incident,

00:19:15.720 --> 00:19:18.099
and we just can't get it back from the police

00:19:18.099 --> 00:19:20.059
after the conclusion of when they would need

00:19:20.059 --> 00:19:23.119
it, whether in this case where they dropped all

00:19:23.119 --> 00:19:25.380
the charges and we're still fighting to get it

00:19:25.380 --> 00:19:27.960
back and we can't get it back, that we have a

00:19:27.960 --> 00:19:30.519
firearms replacement program. It's one of the

00:19:30.519 --> 00:19:33.119
few things we do that we reimburse somebody for.

00:19:33.180 --> 00:19:34.980
Everything else we pay up front, but of course

00:19:34.980 --> 00:19:39.160
we can't buy you a firearm because of the federal

00:19:39.160 --> 00:19:43.359
processes. What we do is we just authorize the

00:19:43.359 --> 00:19:45.220
member once we've determined, hey, the odds of

00:19:45.220 --> 00:19:46.759
us getting that back right now are not great.

00:19:46.880 --> 00:19:50.400
So go ahead and replace it. Send us the receipt

00:19:50.400 --> 00:19:52.720
and then we send them the money. We just did

00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:55.420
just did one today. And I'll tell you about how

00:19:55.420 --> 00:19:58.319
bad the process is. The guy's incident, I believe,

00:19:58.380 --> 00:20:02.980
was October of 2023. Oh, boy. Do the math on

00:20:02.980 --> 00:20:06.019
that, how long we tried. Now, he had other firearms,

00:20:06.140 --> 00:20:08.839
of course, to your point, Ken, but this one in

00:20:08.839 --> 00:20:11.200
particular, you know, we tried for a long time.

00:20:11.380 --> 00:20:15.720
So it does happen. Absolutely. So that's a distinguishing

00:20:15.720 --> 00:20:18.099
characteristic that I, I mean, I'm a member of

00:20:18.099 --> 00:20:22.180
CCW Safe, and I didn't know that. How many other,

00:20:22.319 --> 00:20:26.619
well, have we really gone down the list of why

00:20:26.619 --> 00:20:31.319
CCW Safe would be, in your opinion, Kent? you

00:20:31.319 --> 00:20:33.619
know, the optimal choice. And I'm going to put

00:20:33.619 --> 00:20:38.099
that in the context of, you know, balancing cost

00:20:38.099 --> 00:20:42.960
and efficacy, experience, all those things that

00:20:42.960 --> 00:20:44.819
are going to matter. I mean, I think that anybody

00:20:44.819 --> 00:20:46.900
would, you know, can, you know, kind of went

00:20:46.900 --> 00:20:49.619
down the path of saying, you know, like putting

00:20:49.619 --> 00:20:52.589
on your seatbelt before. after the accident occurs,

00:20:52.869 --> 00:20:55.829
I imagine you probably get a couple calls from

00:20:55.829 --> 00:20:57.990
people occasionally saying, I was just in an

00:20:57.990 --> 00:21:00.470
incident. I'm not a member. I'd like to become

00:21:00.470 --> 00:21:03.849
a member. And cost is not an object at that point.

00:21:03.950 --> 00:21:07.509
But by that point, I imagine it's too late. And

00:21:07.509 --> 00:21:09.809
I'm not saying that it shouldn't be too late

00:21:09.809 --> 00:21:10.970
because you should have thought of this ahead

00:21:10.970 --> 00:21:13.309
of time, just like with auto insurance. But at

00:21:13.309 --> 00:21:16.609
the same time, you have stratification of different

00:21:16.609 --> 00:21:19.369
plans. And I'll bet you that there's very few

00:21:19.369 --> 00:21:21.630
members who would say, No matter what they were

00:21:21.630 --> 00:21:24.670
spending, the plan was worth it. But what are

00:21:24.670 --> 00:21:27.009
we getting for those different levels of spending?

00:21:27.509 --> 00:21:30.089
Yeah, I mean, there's a lot. So there's a lot

00:21:30.089 --> 00:21:33.470
to in all those questions there. I would tell

00:21:33.470 --> 00:21:38.109
you, yes, we have people call in after they signed

00:21:38.109 --> 00:21:39.970
up 10 minutes earlier, but the incident was the

00:21:39.970 --> 00:21:43.230
day before. And of course, we don't cover that,

00:21:43.349 --> 00:21:45.849
right? Our resources are there to be dedicated

00:21:45.849 --> 00:21:50.630
to active members. so that does happen we've

00:21:50.630 --> 00:21:53.130
had people call in like that and of course we're

00:21:53.130 --> 00:21:56.730
not gonna cover them because they're not a member

00:21:56.730 --> 00:21:58.789
or they joined after the incident and some of

00:21:58.789 --> 00:22:01.490
those people cancel they're like oh i don't you

00:22:01.490 --> 00:22:03.269
know right they didn't cover me well wait a minute

00:22:03.269 --> 00:22:06.430
you weren't a member and then some people have

00:22:06.430 --> 00:22:09.359
an incident on their own And they call in and

00:22:09.359 --> 00:22:11.819
join and they say, I know you guys are not covering

00:22:11.819 --> 00:22:13.839
this incident, but I can't afford to go through

00:22:13.839 --> 00:22:15.980
this again by myself should this ever happen.

00:22:16.200 --> 00:22:19.680
And so sometimes that works both ways where people

00:22:19.680 --> 00:22:21.759
are like, I need to get this because who knows

00:22:21.759 --> 00:22:24.660
if I can handle this again. Even if it was a

00:22:24.660 --> 00:22:26.640
low level incident, a lot of times that's enough

00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:30.000
to inspire somebody to look for assistance should

00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:33.740
they ever have to face it. But you had a question

00:22:33.740 --> 00:22:37.220
and we had some questions we talked about. I

00:22:37.220 --> 00:22:40.380
think one of those was really what are the elements

00:22:40.380 --> 00:22:44.740
of a comprehensive self -defense legal services

00:22:44.740 --> 00:22:47.759
plan. And I think that's a good place to start.

00:22:48.279 --> 00:22:51.559
You know, for us, the sort of table stakes as

00:22:51.559 --> 00:22:53.680
we look at it, and not everybody offers this,

00:22:53.819 --> 00:22:59.259
is unlimited legal defense funds paid up front,

00:22:59.339 --> 00:23:02.619
no out of pocket for the member. So anything,

00:23:02.819 --> 00:23:05.990
whether it's attorney's fees. Expert witnesses,

00:23:06.309 --> 00:23:09.809
investigators, exhibits, all the things you might

00:23:09.809 --> 00:23:13.009
need in the worst case scenario trial. Those

00:23:13.009 --> 00:23:17.750
should be unlimited funds with no caps, no out

00:23:17.750 --> 00:23:20.450
of pocket for the member, because otherwise,

00:23:20.549 --> 00:23:24.869
what's the point? So the industry 10 years ago

00:23:24.869 --> 00:23:27.980
was not like that. CCW Safe actually innovated

00:23:27.980 --> 00:23:30.859
that. That was one of the reasons that they started

00:23:30.859 --> 00:23:32.759
the business with it because I think at the time,

00:23:32.819 --> 00:23:34.140
and I don't remember who they were looking at,

00:23:34.180 --> 00:23:36.319
it's really irrelevant, but whoever they looked

00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:39.279
at as a baseline and probably in 2010 or 2011,

00:23:39.599 --> 00:23:44.279
it was like capped at $150 ,000. Well, all our

00:23:44.279 --> 00:23:46.299
founders had been officers and attorneys. They

00:23:46.299 --> 00:23:49.599
knew $150 ,000 is not going to get you through

00:23:49.599 --> 00:23:53.319
trial where you could be facing a murder charge.

00:23:53.519 --> 00:23:55.869
It just isn't going to do it. It won't. cover

00:23:55.869 --> 00:23:58.390
it. And then they, and so they started the unlimited

00:23:58.390 --> 00:24:00.509
and then other people followed that. And then

00:24:00.509 --> 00:24:03.049
even one of the bigger providers in the industry

00:24:03.049 --> 00:24:05.390
does unlimited attorney's fees, but they have

00:24:05.390 --> 00:24:10.450
a cap on investigators and expert witnesses.

00:24:10.809 --> 00:24:13.089
What, you know, that stuff gets really high too.

00:24:13.269 --> 00:24:15.630
And so the cap that they have, we think is too

00:24:15.630 --> 00:24:17.630
low. So we don't cap any of that. So that's table

00:24:17.630 --> 00:24:21.789
stakes. You've got to have that for us. You know,

00:24:21.809 --> 00:24:24.529
we're looking. If I was selecting, you know,

00:24:24.569 --> 00:24:28.170
I want someone who has the ability to get me

00:24:28.170 --> 00:24:30.710
the best local attorney for the circumstances

00:24:30.710 --> 00:24:32.970
that I'm in. So we have some there's people in

00:24:32.970 --> 00:24:34.710
the industry that like, oh, I'm an attorney in

00:24:34.710 --> 00:24:36.730
this state, but I'm going to work your case in

00:24:36.730 --> 00:24:39.130
another state. You know, there's an advantage

00:24:39.130 --> 00:24:42.450
to having a local attorney. Of course, they need

00:24:42.450 --> 00:24:45.450
to be qualified. But who knows the people in

00:24:45.450 --> 00:24:47.740
the. da's office who knows the people in the

00:24:47.740 --> 00:24:50.140
courthouse who knows the homicide investigators

00:24:50.140 --> 00:24:53.259
that all these connections are going to facilitate

00:24:53.259 --> 00:24:57.000
better process and potentially better outcome

00:24:57.000 --> 00:24:59.500
for the member so if they're not getting you

00:24:59.500 --> 00:25:01.579
a local attorney and they're not really helping

00:25:01.579 --> 00:25:04.619
you get that attorney that should be something

00:25:04.619 --> 00:25:07.619
that's a bit of a red flag some people use lists

00:25:07.619 --> 00:25:12.109
of attorneys the challenge with that is Okay,

00:25:12.170 --> 00:25:14.710
they send you a list of 10. Are all 10 of those

00:25:14.710 --> 00:25:17.269
good for exactly what you did and exactly the

00:25:17.269 --> 00:25:21.230
location you were in? Maybe, maybe not. You mean

00:25:21.230 --> 00:25:23.349
they leave it to the customer to figure out which

00:25:23.349 --> 00:25:25.410
of the 10 they want to call when they're under

00:25:25.410 --> 00:25:28.990
stress and making bad decisions? They do. And

00:25:28.990 --> 00:25:31.849
of course, think about, Craig, potentially you

00:25:31.849 --> 00:25:34.529
could be in a jail cell. So now the list goes

00:25:34.529 --> 00:25:39.430
to your spouse or your sister or whoever. What

00:25:39.430 --> 00:25:41.640
are they going to do? How are they going to know?

00:25:41.640 --> 00:25:43.380
Much less you're going to know. And to your point,

00:25:43.440 --> 00:25:46.299
it's a super high stress situation. So our model

00:25:46.299 --> 00:25:48.700
is different, right? We have in -house counsel.

00:25:48.920 --> 00:25:53.460
They're not your attorney. But they locate and

00:25:53.460 --> 00:25:56.940
vet the best attorney in the local area for your

00:25:56.940 --> 00:25:59.180
specific circumstances. And people always ask,

00:25:59.240 --> 00:26:02.099
well, what does that really mean? Well, let's

00:26:02.099 --> 00:26:05.579
just pick a major metro area, whatever. Chicago.

00:26:06.059 --> 00:26:08.400
So if we had three incidents in Chicago on the

00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:11.059
same day, which. Thank goodness we don't. You

00:26:11.059 --> 00:26:12.799
know, one could be a brandishing incident. One

00:26:12.799 --> 00:26:15.200
could be a lethal shooting that may end up in

00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:17.279
a murder charge. Those are going to be two different

00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:19.880
attorneys. You know, can the guy who handles

00:26:19.880 --> 00:26:22.339
the lethal shooting and has trial experience

00:26:22.339 --> 00:26:24.799
in a self -defense case with a murder outcome

00:26:24.799 --> 00:26:28.180
handle the brandishing? He probably can, but

00:26:28.180 --> 00:26:30.819
he probably isn't going to take that case. And

00:26:30.819 --> 00:26:34.539
so we're dialing it in to the specific circumstances.

00:26:35.880 --> 00:26:38.599
of what's happening for you and it's local and

00:26:38.599 --> 00:26:41.799
so we we bet them the member gets a chance to

00:26:41.799 --> 00:26:43.640
have some input if they want we do have members

00:26:43.640 --> 00:26:45.599
who have a preferred attorney we keep that on

00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:48.220
file we do a little vetting of those just to

00:26:48.220 --> 00:26:50.460
make sure and there's been many occasions where

00:26:50.460 --> 00:26:52.519
we've used the attorney that the member wanted

00:26:52.519 --> 00:26:54.839
we've had some occasions where we've had to say

00:26:54.839 --> 00:26:57.630
no you know this is the guy that did your divorce.

00:26:57.849 --> 00:27:00.130
He's not really who we need in this circumstance.

00:27:00.650 --> 00:27:03.250
And they understand. So the member gets input.

00:27:03.369 --> 00:27:05.349
It's not as though we say, hey, this is the guy

00:27:05.349 --> 00:27:08.569
and you don't have any choice. But the overwhelming

00:27:08.569 --> 00:27:11.390
majority just have no idea. You know, just like

00:27:11.390 --> 00:27:13.430
you probably know somebody maybe who did your

00:27:13.430 --> 00:27:17.250
will or, you know, helped your kids with an apartment

00:27:17.250 --> 00:27:19.230
lease, right? I mean, these are all fine attorneys,

00:27:19.450 --> 00:27:21.269
but they're not who we need in these circumstances.

00:27:21.650 --> 00:27:23.970
And you don't know a criminal defense attorney

00:27:23.970 --> 00:27:26.869
with the right experience, but we do. Have you

00:27:26.869 --> 00:27:28.930
had situations where someone has wanted to change

00:27:28.930 --> 00:27:31.150
their attorney? And did you help them do that?

00:27:31.289 --> 00:27:35.230
Okay. Yes, we do. We do. Absolutely. And it's,

00:27:35.230 --> 00:27:38.289
you know, it's very rare, very, very rare. So,

00:27:38.289 --> 00:27:41.309
but the member can absolutely call in and say,

00:27:41.329 --> 00:27:43.430
to let us know what's going on. If they're for

00:27:43.430 --> 00:27:46.650
some unforeseen reason, it's not working out

00:27:46.650 --> 00:27:49.549
for them. It is an option to change. Everybody

00:27:49.549 --> 00:27:51.589
needs to be happy with them. We just, we will

00:27:51.589 --> 00:27:53.750
always make sure whoever it is, is qualified.

00:27:55.400 --> 00:27:57.880
experience for exactly what we need. And we're

00:27:57.880 --> 00:28:00.980
very, very, very, very, very picky about who

00:28:00.980 --> 00:28:03.980
we select. Okay. So I already stated upfront

00:28:03.980 --> 00:28:06.920
that the probability of, you know, of using a

00:28:06.920 --> 00:28:10.259
weapon in a self -defense incident is statistically

00:28:10.259 --> 00:28:12.880
low. It could happen. That's why we carry, that's

00:28:12.880 --> 00:28:14.460
why we're prepared for it, but statistically

00:28:14.460 --> 00:28:17.759
low. That being the case, what's the probability

00:28:17.759 --> 00:28:20.500
you're going to get arrested as a result? And

00:28:20.500 --> 00:28:22.759
at least initially, and what is the probability

00:28:22.759 --> 00:28:26.319
that you will face either criminal or civil actions

00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:28.960
against you? So I can't give you any specific

00:28:28.960 --> 00:28:33.039
numbers on those because it is a very broad spectrum,

00:28:33.180 --> 00:28:36.440
right? And of course, in the context of firearms,

00:28:36.619 --> 00:28:38.619
and we think about self -defense, a lot of people

00:28:38.619 --> 00:28:40.960
are thinking about that, really that worst case

00:28:40.960 --> 00:28:44.400
scenario where you've had to discharge the weapon

00:28:44.400 --> 00:28:47.500
in self -defense. And the person that you've

00:28:47.500 --> 00:28:50.119
shot, your attacker may or may not. be alive

00:28:50.119 --> 00:28:53.960
you know and in those cases again it's really

00:28:53.960 --> 00:28:59.160
circumstantial so if it's inside your home does

00:28:59.160 --> 00:29:01.400
that improve the odds that you're not going to

00:29:01.400 --> 00:29:04.869
get arrested Of course. Have we seen, have we

00:29:04.869 --> 00:29:06.670
had a member get arrested for an incident inside

00:29:06.670 --> 00:29:09.109
their home? Yes, we have. People don't think

00:29:09.109 --> 00:29:12.450
that's a possibility. It is a possibility. So

00:29:12.450 --> 00:29:15.329
it's a broad spectrum, but the majority of the

00:29:15.329 --> 00:29:17.650
incidents that our members get in don't involve

00:29:17.650 --> 00:29:20.490
the discharge of the firearm. And so it could

00:29:20.490 --> 00:29:23.410
be, you know, where they're displaying the firearm,

00:29:23.690 --> 00:29:26.410
brandishing. It could be incidents where they're

00:29:26.410 --> 00:29:30.410
using pepper spray. So all this is sort of circumstantial

00:29:30.410 --> 00:29:34.609
to what level. response that they used, the most

00:29:34.609 --> 00:29:37.230
evident circumstances to the police as they begin

00:29:37.230 --> 00:29:39.990
to investigate, you know, where it happened,

00:29:40.250 --> 00:29:42.630
where their witnesses. So there's all these factors

00:29:42.630 --> 00:29:46.130
that come in to play. But even if you're not

00:29:46.130 --> 00:29:48.529
arrested, there'll be times where they're going

00:29:48.529 --> 00:29:52.029
to take you down to the station and maybe they

00:29:52.029 --> 00:29:53.789
don't know exactly what's happened yet. So they're

00:29:53.789 --> 00:29:56.190
going to have you there waiting for your attorney

00:29:56.190 --> 00:29:59.109
and then try to sort out what they think has

00:29:59.109 --> 00:30:02.079
happened and decide, make a decision. And I would

00:30:02.079 --> 00:30:03.960
think that the venue that you're at, I mean,

00:30:03.980 --> 00:30:07.019
if New York City is different than rural Texas

00:30:07.019 --> 00:30:09.859
or whatever it might be, and there are places

00:30:09.859 --> 00:30:13.160
that are more gun friendly and places where if

00:30:13.160 --> 00:30:15.920
you even are a firearms owner, you're obviously,

00:30:16.019 --> 00:30:19.099
something's wrong with you. And obviously you're

00:30:19.099 --> 00:30:21.819
the criminal and the instigator and yeah, just

00:30:21.819 --> 00:30:24.299
the DAs, just that whole mindset and certain

00:30:24.299 --> 00:30:26.559
larger cities I'm particularly thinking. Yeah,

00:30:26.559 --> 00:30:30.230
it's, I mean, we do see. you know a little bit

00:30:30.230 --> 00:30:32.569
of consistency in certain geographic areas in

00:30:32.569 --> 00:30:35.369
terms of the response where they're a little

00:30:35.369 --> 00:30:38.549
more cautious in terms of law enforcement and

00:30:38.549 --> 00:30:41.849
the prosecutors are a little more cautious to

00:30:41.849 --> 00:30:44.690
not just go ahead and assume this was a clean

00:30:44.690 --> 00:30:47.470
self -defense incident so they want to do a little

00:30:47.470 --> 00:30:51.210
more investigation and that's normal again if

00:30:51.210 --> 00:30:53.509
you've done all the right things there is going

00:30:53.509 --> 00:30:56.230
to be something that you have to deal with you

00:30:56.230 --> 00:30:59.039
know the odds that of them showing up and saying

00:30:59.039 --> 00:31:00.880
well this looks pretty good see you know got

00:31:00.880 --> 00:31:03.420
it saw what you did all good man go home have

00:31:03.420 --> 00:31:06.299
a nice day and it's not exactly going to work

00:31:06.299 --> 00:31:08.759
like that and so we encourage the members right

00:31:08.759 --> 00:31:11.559
don't become frustrated that the police are going

00:31:11.559 --> 00:31:13.599
to be dealing with you don't become frustrated

00:31:13.599 --> 00:31:16.900
if they put you in the back of the police car

00:31:16.900 --> 00:31:18.900
or even take you to the station you know we're

00:31:18.900 --> 00:31:20.779
already getting the attorney for you so you're

00:31:20.779 --> 00:31:23.740
going to be fine but there is a process that

00:31:23.740 --> 00:31:26.750
they need to go through and they really don't

00:31:26.750 --> 00:31:29.410
have ill intention. You know, they have the best

00:31:29.410 --> 00:31:31.630
intention, but they have a duty to really sort

00:31:31.630 --> 00:31:34.549
out what's going on and, you know, based on what's

00:31:34.549 --> 00:31:36.269
in front of them and what you tell them is only

00:31:36.269 --> 00:31:39.549
part of what they're taking into account. So

00:31:39.549 --> 00:31:42.329
earlier there was a little bit of discussion

00:31:42.329 --> 00:31:46.349
on this subject. The differences between the

00:31:46.349 --> 00:31:50.269
types of organizations that provide this type

00:31:50.269 --> 00:31:53.049
of coverage. Maybe we're roundly calling this

00:31:53.049 --> 00:31:57.049
insurance, but Actually, in CCW Safe's context,

00:31:57.269 --> 00:32:00.849
it is not literally insurance, right? It is something

00:32:00.849 --> 00:32:03.609
else. And I guess there are several types of

00:32:03.609 --> 00:32:05.849
options out there. Maybe you could speak to the

00:32:05.849 --> 00:32:08.049
benefits of different approaches that different

00:32:08.049 --> 00:32:11.670
companies have and why yours, in your opinion,

00:32:11.710 --> 00:32:14.609
is the preferred method. Sure. And it really,

00:32:14.750 --> 00:32:19.630
this is sort of part of the answer to what are

00:32:19.630 --> 00:32:22.650
the key elements of a good self -defense legal

00:32:22.650 --> 00:32:26.279
services policy. And I'll classify this under

00:32:26.279 --> 00:32:29.839
sort of a demonstrated ability to have the financial

00:32:29.839 --> 00:32:32.279
resources to do what you're going to need done.

00:32:32.740 --> 00:32:36.400
So in the industry, you see a lot of different

00:32:36.400 --> 00:32:41.420
methods for this. And a common one is that the

00:32:41.420 --> 00:32:44.680
service provider that you sign up with is going

00:32:44.680 --> 00:32:47.759
to get an insurance policy issued by a third

00:32:47.759 --> 00:32:52.059
party in your name. self -defense liability policy

00:32:52.059 --> 00:32:55.079
or something of that nature. So you will be the

00:32:55.079 --> 00:32:58.000
named insured or they'll be able to produce a

00:32:58.000 --> 00:33:01.299
policy that has your name on it. That does have

00:33:01.299 --> 00:33:04.420
some potential drawbacks, but at the very least,

00:33:04.460 --> 00:33:07.980
it's a modest demonstration that there's somebody

00:33:07.980 --> 00:33:10.740
out there with money who can pay. There's a company

00:33:10.740 --> 00:33:12.299
in the industry that's been around for a long,

00:33:12.319 --> 00:33:15.079
long, long time and they have a fund and they

00:33:15.079 --> 00:33:17.809
just. have accrued a fund over years and they

00:33:17.809 --> 00:33:19.690
tell their members this is how much money we

00:33:19.690 --> 00:33:21.990
have sitting out here for your incidents and

00:33:21.990 --> 00:33:23.950
it's a demonstrable number at least that we're

00:33:23.950 --> 00:33:26.650
reporting to you and that it's of a size that

00:33:26.650 --> 00:33:29.170
you can have belief that that's more than enough

00:33:29.170 --> 00:33:31.750
to take care of anything that might happen and

00:33:31.750 --> 00:33:34.710
that's okay that takes away the disadvantage

00:33:34.710 --> 00:33:36.589
of the insurance policy which we'll talk about

00:33:36.589 --> 00:33:40.089
in a second and then our method and then you

00:33:40.089 --> 00:33:41.509
have there's actually one or two people in the

00:33:41.509 --> 00:33:43.650
industry that don't demonstrate anything at all

00:33:43.650 --> 00:33:45.650
you're just hoping they have the money. They've

00:33:45.650 --> 00:33:48.289
done nothing to show you that they've put any

00:33:48.289 --> 00:33:53.549
financial instrument in place to fund your incident

00:33:53.549 --> 00:33:56.269
or fund multiple incidents at one time. And that's

00:33:56.269 --> 00:33:58.589
a huge red flag. So if they don't have anything

00:33:58.589 --> 00:34:01.269
that they can demonstrate or explain to you on

00:34:01.269 --> 00:34:03.789
where that comes from, I'd be concerned about

00:34:03.789 --> 00:34:08.429
that. In our case, we use a captive insurance

00:34:08.429 --> 00:34:11.449
company. So just think almost like private insurance.

00:34:12.090 --> 00:34:16.630
So it's an entity that Our owners created that

00:34:16.630 --> 00:34:19.929
all it does, it's only insured entity is CCW

00:34:19.929 --> 00:34:23.349
Safe. So it allows us to provide benefits to

00:34:23.349 --> 00:34:25.309
the members according to our terms of service

00:34:25.309 --> 00:34:29.369
and it funds all that. So I literally pay a premium

00:34:29.369 --> 00:34:34.769
into that insurance fund every year to allow

00:34:34.769 --> 00:34:36.469
us to do what we need to do for the members.

00:34:36.530 --> 00:34:39.090
And then that private insurance company, again,

00:34:39.170 --> 00:34:44.059
CCW Safe is its only client, reimburses. the

00:34:44.059 --> 00:34:46.320
company for the things that I spend on the member's

00:34:46.320 --> 00:34:50.320
behalf. And it's completely managed by a third

00:34:50.320 --> 00:34:54.380
party. So I'm not in control of it. My founders

00:34:54.380 --> 00:34:57.039
are not in control of it where they say, hey,

00:34:57.079 --> 00:34:58.480
you know what? Maybe we don't need to put so

00:34:58.480 --> 00:35:01.179
much in there anymore. We don't get to do that.

00:35:01.460 --> 00:35:03.739
So we have an independent third party manage

00:35:03.739 --> 00:35:07.869
that. And then it goes through independent. actuarial

00:35:07.869 --> 00:35:10.809
review underwriting review every year and then

00:35:10.809 --> 00:35:13.469
they tell me based on all of our history and

00:35:13.469 --> 00:35:17.230
all this stuff that actuaries do that this is

00:35:17.230 --> 00:35:19.949
what you need to pay in and then it's always

00:35:19.949 --> 00:35:22.949
a whole lot more than we ever pay out and then

00:35:22.949 --> 00:35:25.570
everything that's in excess of that just sits

00:35:25.570 --> 00:35:28.650
in a reserve fund so if we ever have you know

00:35:28.650 --> 00:35:32.429
oh my gosh we just had six lethal shootings you

00:35:32.429 --> 00:35:35.190
know in a month that's going to cause a lot of

00:35:35.190 --> 00:35:37.760
outlay All that money is still there. We've never

00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:41.039
taken a penny out of the reserve since 2017 is

00:35:41.039 --> 00:35:42.760
when it started. So we've never taken a penny

00:35:42.760 --> 00:35:46.559
out. So that's how we have a financial tool for

00:35:46.559 --> 00:35:50.019
us to have the resources. What's different about

00:35:50.019 --> 00:35:52.320
that than having an insurance policy in your

00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:54.340
name from a third party through one of these

00:35:54.340 --> 00:35:56.449
other providers? Well, we're not selling you

00:35:56.449 --> 00:35:58.989
insurance, so we're not indemnifying you against

00:35:58.989 --> 00:36:01.250
anything. Our contract is our terms of service.

00:36:01.610 --> 00:36:04.210
So if you if you get involved in a self -defense

00:36:04.210 --> 00:36:06.349
incident, here's the things that we'll do. Here's

00:36:06.349 --> 00:36:07.989
the things that we'll pay for. Here's the resources

00:36:07.989 --> 00:36:12.869
that will, excuse me, provide. In the insurance,

00:36:13.030 --> 00:36:17.289
real insurance policy game, they should be doing

00:36:17.289 --> 00:36:18.769
the things that they say they're going to do.

00:36:18.829 --> 00:36:22.980
The challenge they have is that there's. an insurance

00:36:22.980 --> 00:36:25.340
board or insurance regulators in every state.

00:36:25.739 --> 00:36:29.500
And just, you cannot insure or indemnify someone

00:36:29.500 --> 00:36:32.679
against the outcome of a criminal act. Okay.

00:36:33.440 --> 00:36:36.179
I didn't commit a criminal act that I was defending

00:36:36.179 --> 00:36:39.699
myself. Well, you could end up charged with a

00:36:39.699 --> 00:36:42.699
crime. Okay. So you're going to go to trial and

00:36:42.699 --> 00:36:45.900
you lose. Now what happens? The company has spent

00:36:45.900 --> 00:36:48.960
however much on your behalf, big case, two, 300

00:36:48.960 --> 00:36:52.590
,000, maybe more. They have a recoupment clause

00:36:52.590 --> 00:36:55.670
in their contract where the state may require

00:36:55.670 --> 00:36:58.230
them to ask you for the money back because now

00:36:58.230 --> 00:37:00.449
you've indemnified someone against the outcome

00:37:00.449 --> 00:37:04.130
of their criminal act. What if you don't go to

00:37:04.130 --> 00:37:07.030
trial and lose? What if you take a plea? Well,

00:37:07.170 --> 00:37:10.710
you're now guilty of that lesser charge, which

00:37:10.710 --> 00:37:14.789
may be advantageous for the member. of that organization

00:37:14.789 --> 00:37:17.070
depending on the circumstances and that's okay

00:37:17.070 --> 00:37:19.190
so we're fine if members take a plea if that's

00:37:19.190 --> 00:37:20.650
what makes sense for them we don't get involved

00:37:20.650 --> 00:37:22.630
in that decision but now you're guilty of that

00:37:22.630 --> 00:37:24.489
act and so again the recoupment clause could

00:37:24.489 --> 00:37:28.070
come into effect and so that's a severe concern

00:37:28.070 --> 00:37:30.050
and that's really one of the reasons that we

00:37:30.050 --> 00:37:32.070
have the structure we do is because we never

00:37:32.070 --> 00:37:34.789
wanted to have to go to a member and say well

00:37:34.789 --> 00:37:37.670
you know what we gotta have that money back or

00:37:37.670 --> 00:37:40.110
you lost the case and you want to appeal you

00:37:40.110 --> 00:37:42.090
know oh no we can't do that because the insurance

00:37:42.090 --> 00:37:45.320
regulators don't allow for that. And so we never

00:37:45.320 --> 00:37:48.659
wanted to be in that situation. And which is

00:37:48.659 --> 00:37:51.239
one of the reasons why we had to part ways with

00:37:51.239 --> 00:37:53.280
Washington State years ago, because they wanted

00:37:53.280 --> 00:37:55.619
to require us and every company in the industry

00:37:55.619 --> 00:37:58.539
to do it like they said, and be an insurance

00:37:58.539 --> 00:38:00.900
policy and be regulated and have these recruitment

00:38:00.900 --> 00:38:03.539
clauses. And we said, we're not going to do that

00:38:03.539 --> 00:38:06.619
to members. And so we left the state altogether.

00:38:06.920 --> 00:38:09.159
And in fact, there's not really, there's maybe

00:38:09.159 --> 00:38:11.099
one provider you can get in Washington State

00:38:11.099 --> 00:38:15.079
anymore. It was a long -winded answer, but it

00:38:15.079 --> 00:38:16.900
does make a difference. The recoupment clause

00:38:16.900 --> 00:38:18.699
would cause me a tremendous amount of concern

00:38:18.699 --> 00:38:21.760
if I were looking at it. I don't know if they've

00:38:21.760 --> 00:38:23.900
recouped. I don't know if they ever will recoup,

00:38:24.039 --> 00:38:26.300
but the fact that it sits there is something

00:38:26.300 --> 00:38:28.400
that needs to be considered. Well, it becomes

00:38:28.400 --> 00:38:33.300
a liability. I imagine in the extreme case, let's

00:38:33.300 --> 00:38:34.940
say you had a very expensive case and it goes

00:38:34.940 --> 00:38:36.659
the wrong way, and then there's a recoupment

00:38:36.659 --> 00:38:40.980
clause. I don't know if you just have a notional

00:38:40.980 --> 00:38:43.079
number. if let's say the average number is three

00:38:43.079 --> 00:38:45.440
hundred thousand dollars just just to throw a

00:38:45.440 --> 00:38:48.119
number out and murder case yeah that being the

00:38:48.119 --> 00:38:52.639
situation i mean right you could you could have

00:38:52.639 --> 00:38:55.639
to declare bankruptcy just to avoid the debt

00:38:55.639 --> 00:38:57.099
to the company that you thought was covering

00:38:57.099 --> 00:39:00.599
you yeah it agreed yes and that is a good number

00:39:00.599 --> 00:39:02.320
right if it's a try i mean it's probably hard

00:39:02.320 --> 00:39:04.360
we had a case we were the first ones in the industry

00:39:04.360 --> 00:39:08.519
uh to successfully have a member defended in

00:39:08.519 --> 00:39:10.780
a trial that had a potential murder one outcome

00:39:10.780 --> 00:39:13.199
and that was in that was about eight years ago

00:39:13.199 --> 00:39:15.940
in that case we spent a little over four hundred

00:39:15.940 --> 00:39:19.300
thousand dollars and of course at the time we

00:39:19.300 --> 00:39:21.960
didn't even have the setup that we had today

00:39:21.960 --> 00:39:24.260
that we have today that was prior to that we

00:39:24.260 --> 00:39:26.699
were just funding that through money that was

00:39:26.699 --> 00:39:29.920
in the company and that was really the impetus

00:39:29.920 --> 00:39:33.159
for us where it's like okay if that size of company

00:39:33.159 --> 00:39:35.989
that's okay but in the future We have to have

00:39:35.989 --> 00:39:39.610
a better mechanism in place so that we have the

00:39:39.610 --> 00:39:41.250
funds that we need and that the members can be

00:39:41.250 --> 00:39:43.869
confident that we can support anything that would

00:39:43.869 --> 00:39:45.769
happen. And, of course, so they started that

00:39:45.769 --> 00:39:48.889
in 2017. That incident was in 15 and 16. And

00:39:48.889 --> 00:39:51.510
so it took two years to get through that trial.

00:39:52.110 --> 00:39:54.909
It is something to consider. Again, I don't know

00:39:54.909 --> 00:39:57.389
whether they asked anybody for the money back.

00:39:57.590 --> 00:39:59.329
I don't know if they've ever gotten any or they

00:39:59.329 --> 00:40:02.980
will do it in the future. I have no idea. I would

00:40:02.980 --> 00:40:04.920
not want that hanging over my head, particularly

00:40:04.920 --> 00:40:07.980
when you think about just taking a plea. You

00:40:07.980 --> 00:40:13.159
did something that was OK. You got charged with

00:40:13.159 --> 00:40:16.280
a felony. And now the prosecutor is saying, hey,

00:40:16.320 --> 00:40:18.039
let's just do this little misdemeanor and get

00:40:18.039 --> 00:40:19.840
it over with. And maybe that's a good decision

00:40:19.840 --> 00:40:22.719
for you in your own circumstances. And you want

00:40:22.719 --> 00:40:25.280
to do that. Fine by us. We don't get involved

00:40:25.280 --> 00:40:27.380
in that decision. We don't encourage that or

00:40:27.380 --> 00:40:29.480
discourage that. That's between you and the attorney

00:40:29.480 --> 00:40:32.079
that we've hired for you. But if you do it, we're

00:40:32.079 --> 00:40:33.679
not going to ask for the money back. If you go

00:40:33.679 --> 00:40:34.960
to try and lose, we're not going to ask for the

00:40:34.960 --> 00:40:36.900
money back. If you go to try and lose and you

00:40:36.900 --> 00:40:38.340
want to have an appeal and that makes sense,

00:40:38.480 --> 00:40:42.000
we're going to fund that too. What then would

00:40:42.000 --> 00:40:45.260
be things that would, now maybe this is almost

00:40:45.260 --> 00:40:47.139
a two -part question because it may go to the

00:40:47.139 --> 00:40:49.920
core of the differences between your membership

00:40:49.920 --> 00:40:53.199
levels, but what sort of things are explicitly

00:40:53.199 --> 00:40:57.179
not covered that someone should know about, you

00:40:57.179 --> 00:40:59.619
know, like? i have fire insurance but i burned

00:40:59.619 --> 00:41:03.239
my house down therefore you know the home insurer

00:41:03.239 --> 00:41:04.820
insurance doesn't pay off because it doesn't

00:41:04.820 --> 00:41:06.619
cover me burning my own house down you know that

00:41:06.619 --> 00:41:09.920
kind of a right sure well obviously firearms

00:41:09.920 --> 00:41:13.920
i mean knives hands you know baseball bats well

00:41:13.920 --> 00:41:16.519
i mean yes well that's a good so ken let me answer

00:41:16.519 --> 00:41:20.019
that portion first so we cover and it's really

00:41:20.019 --> 00:41:23.320
at the core of almost everything we do is a self

00:41:23.320 --> 00:41:26.579
-defense incident so it does not have to be firearms

00:41:26.579 --> 00:41:30.170
we've had numerous incidents that don't involve

00:41:30.170 --> 00:41:34.570
a firearm. Pepper spray, fists. We had an incident

00:41:34.570 --> 00:41:37.349
where all the member had was their fists to defend

00:41:37.349 --> 00:41:40.690
themselves in that particular case. So that part

00:41:40.690 --> 00:41:43.710
does not matter. Whether it's a firearm or not,

00:41:43.849 --> 00:41:48.349
it's still covered. So if at the core of it,

00:41:48.389 --> 00:41:50.909
it's a self -defense incident, that's really

00:41:50.909 --> 00:41:53.309
where everything, the nexus of how everything

00:41:53.309 --> 00:41:55.670
revolves. And it can be things that spin off

00:41:55.670 --> 00:41:58.050
of that. Like you might end up with an administrative

00:41:58.050 --> 00:42:01.230
action, which would also be covered as part of

00:42:01.230 --> 00:42:02.849
your incidents. If you live in Illinois and you

00:42:02.849 --> 00:42:05.289
have a FOID card and you get into some, even

00:42:05.289 --> 00:42:06.710
a low -level incident, they're going to take

00:42:06.710 --> 00:42:09.670
that firearms owner's identification card away

00:42:09.670 --> 00:42:10.929
from you and you're going to have to go to court

00:42:10.929 --> 00:42:13.510
to try to get that back. We've done several of

00:42:13.510 --> 00:42:17.409
those in the last year, more in the past. So

00:42:17.409 --> 00:42:20.349
there's a lot of things that can sort of spawn

00:42:20.349 --> 00:42:24.329
off of the incident that are covered. But that's

00:42:24.329 --> 00:42:27.019
really the root of it. Just like losing your

00:42:27.019 --> 00:42:29.400
firearm, you know, and not able to get that back.

00:42:29.460 --> 00:42:31.980
We cover it. There's a couple of things that

00:42:31.980 --> 00:42:37.260
we do that are not self -defense related. Like

00:42:37.260 --> 00:42:40.440
we in some of our premium plans, like our ultimate

00:42:40.440 --> 00:42:45.159
plan, we have coverage for accidental TSA violations.

00:42:45.239 --> 00:42:47.679
So you're going through screening at TSA and

00:42:47.679 --> 00:42:51.079
in your backpack, you have some rounds of ammo

00:42:51.079 --> 00:42:54.199
or magazine loaded magazine in there. and now

00:42:54.199 --> 00:42:56.099
they've stopped you and it's going to be a real

00:42:56.099 --> 00:42:59.559
inconvenience to say the least we have some funds

00:42:59.559 --> 00:43:01.500
available to help you with something like that

00:43:01.500 --> 00:43:04.039
because we were having members having that occur

00:43:04.039 --> 00:43:07.099
and it is common that you just sort of forget

00:43:07.099 --> 00:43:09.239
you grab that backpack and you don't know what's

00:43:09.239 --> 00:43:11.360
in there There were some high -profile cases

00:43:11.360 --> 00:43:13.940
with that, with a person with one round of ammunition

00:43:13.940 --> 00:43:17.400
wedged down, and they're in Bermuda. They entered

00:43:17.400 --> 00:43:18.880
the country with no problem. It was on leaving

00:43:18.880 --> 00:43:21.099
it that they found one round that was jammed

00:43:21.099 --> 00:43:23.000
in the bottom of a pocket or something like that.

00:43:23.320 --> 00:43:25.920
And then there was another one where it was a

00:43:25.920 --> 00:43:28.599
state legislator from Oregon or Washington, I

00:43:28.599 --> 00:43:31.679
think it was, who was going to, I think it was

00:43:31.679 --> 00:43:34.159
Japan or China or some Asian country. I think

00:43:34.159 --> 00:43:36.460
it was China, actually. And he had a firearm

00:43:36.460 --> 00:43:39.260
in his briefcase, and it went right through T.

00:43:39.340 --> 00:43:42.460
TSA, no problem. And he landed in China, I think

00:43:42.460 --> 00:43:45.019
it was. And it's like, ooh, no. And he actually

00:43:45.019 --> 00:43:46.860
discovered it about halfway across the ocean.

00:43:47.099 --> 00:43:50.639
And you're like, ooh, no, no, this is not. To

00:43:50.639 --> 00:43:53.519
be fair, we can't help you on the overseas. So

00:43:53.519 --> 00:43:57.320
that's an international incident. But there have

00:43:57.320 --> 00:43:59.139
been those high profile ones where TSA doesn't

00:43:59.139 --> 00:44:02.079
catch it. We had a member. I don't remember the

00:44:02.079 --> 00:44:04.300
city. So I'll just use a pair as an example.

00:44:04.360 --> 00:44:10.159
This is close. They flew from. Boise to LA, no

00:44:10.159 --> 00:44:13.860
problem. And same pack, same, maybe even the

00:44:13.860 --> 00:44:15.699
same day trip popped down, went to a meeting,

00:44:15.800 --> 00:44:19.500
go to LAX to come back. And lo and behold, that

00:44:19.500 --> 00:44:23.480
TSA sees the magazine, but Boise TSA didn't even

00:44:23.480 --> 00:44:26.239
see it. So not only does he have to deal with

00:44:26.239 --> 00:44:28.219
that, he's got to deal with it in another state.

00:44:28.280 --> 00:44:30.360
So we have a provision, you know, for a couple

00:44:30.360 --> 00:44:32.219
of things like that, where we just members. It

00:44:32.219 --> 00:44:34.840
was happening to them. And so it's a nice added

00:44:34.840 --> 00:44:37.480
benefit on a couple of our plans. But again,

00:44:37.860 --> 00:44:41.239
the core is a self -defense incident. The one

00:44:41.239 --> 00:44:44.780
question we get asked regularly, or not regularly,

00:44:44.880 --> 00:44:48.880
but periodically, is do we cover negligent discharge?

00:44:49.280 --> 00:44:52.239
And we do not. There's nothing self -defense

00:44:52.239 --> 00:44:56.300
about a negligent discharge. And so that is something

00:44:56.300 --> 00:44:58.280
we don't do. That's outside the scope of our

00:44:58.280 --> 00:45:01.690
coverage. And so, but most of the things our

00:45:01.690 --> 00:45:03.730
members get into do fall inside the scope of

00:45:03.730 --> 00:45:06.309
the coverage. And you mentioned, I think this

00:45:06.309 --> 00:45:09.329
was in the pre, you know, when we were talking

00:45:09.329 --> 00:45:12.590
about getting ready for the show, that there

00:45:12.590 --> 00:45:16.469
are certain states that you would not cover in,

00:45:16.489 --> 00:45:18.670
even if a person did hold a valid membership

00:45:18.670 --> 00:45:22.579
from another state. um is that should we like

00:45:22.579 --> 00:45:24.320
have a map in front of us that has you know big

00:45:24.320 --> 00:45:27.400
red x's like don't go to new jersey or something

00:45:27.400 --> 00:45:30.900
like that uh or washington state or something

00:45:30.900 --> 00:45:33.300
along those lines because i i think that it'd

00:45:33.300 --> 00:45:35.019
be easy in fact i would have made this mistake

00:45:35.019 --> 00:45:39.780
honestly i would have think well i am my coverage

00:45:39.780 --> 00:45:42.760
is is valid in in my home state and therefore

00:45:42.760 --> 00:45:46.239
it is valid in all 50 states but perhaps that's

00:45:46.239 --> 00:45:50.000
not the reality no it's not i mean we we are

00:45:50.679 --> 00:45:52.760
It's listed multiple times on the website. It's

00:45:52.760 --> 00:45:55.019
in the terms of service. So all of our plans

00:45:55.019 --> 00:45:57.820
do include multi -state coverage. And for us,

00:45:57.860 --> 00:46:02.519
multi -state means 47 states with one minor exception,

00:46:02.679 --> 00:46:05.179
which I'll get to, but it's 47 states. And so

00:46:05.179 --> 00:46:06.780
there's some other providers out there. You buy

00:46:06.780 --> 00:46:08.199
a plan and it's just their state. And they're

00:46:08.199 --> 00:46:09.539
like, oh, you want to be covered when you go

00:46:09.539 --> 00:46:11.360
to other states and you got to add that on and

00:46:11.360 --> 00:46:13.800
pay some more. And so we don't do that. All of

00:46:13.800 --> 00:46:17.559
our plans include multi -state coverage. Washington,

00:46:17.820 --> 00:46:21.329
New Jersey. No matter where your home base is,

00:46:21.429 --> 00:46:23.329
if you get into an incident in those states,

00:46:23.489 --> 00:46:26.329
I cannot provide you benefits. They just there

00:46:26.329 --> 00:46:28.969
was an executive order in New Jersey that prevents

00:46:28.969 --> 00:46:31.230
anybody from doing anything there. So no one

00:46:31.230 --> 00:46:34.489
really in the industry is covering that. Washington

00:46:34.489 --> 00:46:37.849
is just about devoid of any coverage. You know,

00:46:37.869 --> 00:46:39.730
I had a member in Idaho and he's like, oh, you

00:46:39.730 --> 00:46:42.590
know, I go into Washington state twice a week.

00:46:42.750 --> 00:46:44.809
I'm good there. I'm like, no, you're not good

00:46:44.809 --> 00:46:47.309
there. Unfortunately, they don't allow it. New

00:46:47.309 --> 00:46:51.030
York state. I can help you if you're law enforcement

00:46:51.030 --> 00:46:53.909
or retired law enforcement. And so it really

00:46:53.909 --> 00:46:57.170
falls under what some people know as H .R. 218

00:46:57.170 --> 00:47:02.429
or Leosa. Right. Yes. So I can help you in New

00:47:02.429 --> 00:47:06.369
York if you fall under that. But everyday citizens,

00:47:06.550 --> 00:47:10.170
I cannot. So, Kent, I think probably one of the

00:47:10.170 --> 00:47:12.949
most critical things that our listeners are going

00:47:12.949 --> 00:47:15.880
to want to know, because. We talked about the

00:47:15.880 --> 00:47:17.719
fact that people don't train enough, and they

00:47:17.719 --> 00:47:19.019
probably go to the range, and they're probably

00:47:19.019 --> 00:47:21.280
proficient shots, but they probably haven't got

00:47:21.280 --> 00:47:22.619
a lot of professional training. Probably the

00:47:22.619 --> 00:47:26.139
thing they have not thought about is when you're

00:47:26.139 --> 00:47:28.960
under stress, your heart rate is up, your adrenaline

00:47:28.960 --> 00:47:31.639
is flowing, you don't remember how many rounds

00:47:31.639 --> 00:47:33.599
you shot, you probably never saw your front sights.

00:47:34.179 --> 00:47:36.380
All those things that they say happen in real

00:47:36.380 --> 00:47:39.579
shooting incidents. What is the first thing that

00:47:39.579 --> 00:47:42.719
a person should do after an incident? And to

00:47:42.719 --> 00:47:44.699
follow that, maybe the second and third things

00:47:44.699 --> 00:47:47.219
that a person should do. And then we'll get into

00:47:47.219 --> 00:47:50.599
the opposite, what we do not want to do. Yes,

00:47:50.619 --> 00:47:53.900
I can. The first thing I would say is I'm going

00:47:53.900 --> 00:47:56.420
to give you my answers, but I would tell your

00:47:56.420 --> 00:47:59.280
listeners, if they go to our resources section

00:47:59.280 --> 00:48:01.940
on our website and search for podcast number

00:48:01.940 --> 00:48:07.400
69, there's a great podcast that has... Two retired

00:48:07.400 --> 00:48:09.360
law enforcement officers on there. It was our

00:48:09.360 --> 00:48:11.579
critical response team at the time that that

00:48:11.579 --> 00:48:13.820
broadcast was done. Gary's still on our critical

00:48:13.820 --> 00:48:16.219
response team. But those two guys you're talking

00:48:16.219 --> 00:48:19.679
about 50 or 60 years of law enforcement experience

00:48:19.679 --> 00:48:22.179
talking about exactly this topic. So they'll

00:48:22.179 --> 00:48:23.780
give you some really good details and examples.

00:48:24.039 --> 00:48:28.539
But generally speaking, you want to let the officer

00:48:28.539 --> 00:48:31.099
know that you're going to cooperate. You tell

00:48:31.099 --> 00:48:34.090
them it was a self -defense. incident i was attacked

00:48:34.090 --> 00:48:36.449
i had to defend myself i'm going to cooperate

00:48:36.449 --> 00:48:39.769
with you completely i do want to get contact

00:48:39.769 --> 00:48:42.349
my attorney and have them for it but i'm absolutely

00:48:42.349 --> 00:48:45.150
going to cooperate that's really the right way

00:48:45.150 --> 00:48:48.130
to start it and most of the officers are going

00:48:48.130 --> 00:48:49.929
to honor that's not going to be any problem doesn't

00:48:49.929 --> 00:48:51.449
mean they're not going to ask you a couple questions

00:48:51.449 --> 00:48:54.230
here and there but broadly speaking you want

00:48:54.230 --> 00:48:58.010
to stick to that level of detail at that point

00:48:58.429 --> 00:49:00.250
and hopefully you've talked to us before you

00:49:00.250 --> 00:49:02.070
get to that point but it's okay if you haven't

00:49:02.070 --> 00:49:04.349
and you you're going to call us later because

00:49:04.349 --> 00:49:06.369
they are going to allow you to call for an attorney

00:49:06.369 --> 00:49:08.710
when you call us that qualifies as seeking for

00:49:08.710 --> 00:49:10.570
an attorney which is important for a couple reasons

00:49:10.570 --> 00:49:13.469
but but that would be the right way to do it

00:49:13.469 --> 00:49:14.989
you were attacked you had to defend yourself

00:49:14.989 --> 00:49:18.110
i'm going to cooperate with you completely that's

00:49:18.110 --> 00:49:20.010
the advice i would offer people other people

00:49:20.010 --> 00:49:22.070
would say don't say anything just tell them you

00:49:22.070 --> 00:49:24.340
have to have an attorney You know, it's good

00:49:24.340 --> 00:49:26.480
to establish that you were attacked and you had

00:49:26.480 --> 00:49:29.739
to defend yourself. I was afraid I was going

00:49:29.739 --> 00:49:34.079
to be beaten severely or die. Or if you were

00:49:34.079 --> 00:49:37.079
somebody else, you can say that too. I think

00:49:37.079 --> 00:49:39.619
that's great. You need to let them know that

00:49:39.619 --> 00:49:42.219
level. And then you can start to move into being

00:49:42.219 --> 00:49:46.179
just cooperative but not details. And the one

00:49:46.179 --> 00:49:49.440
thing I'd add is if this happens in a crowd of

00:49:49.440 --> 00:49:52.760
people. to point to the officer shows up say

00:49:52.760 --> 00:49:55.860
that person over there saw what happened that

00:49:55.860 --> 00:49:58.400
person over there saw what happened and and on

00:49:58.400 --> 00:50:00.699
the ground there might be shell casings or whatever

00:50:00.699 --> 00:50:02.539
it might be and those things get stuck in shoes

00:50:02.539 --> 00:50:05.599
and they disappear like unbelievable so if there's

00:50:05.599 --> 00:50:08.300
any evidence that's that's around or people who

00:50:08.300 --> 00:50:11.039
are witnesses point them out and then shut up

00:50:11.039 --> 00:50:13.920
that's great absolutely you absolutely want to

00:50:13.920 --> 00:50:18.119
do that for sure that's wonderful advice I think

00:50:18.119 --> 00:50:20.239
the question sometimes is, well, what do you

00:50:20.239 --> 00:50:24.000
not want to say? And again, I would refer people

00:50:24.000 --> 00:50:25.500
to that podcast because you're going to get a

00:50:25.500 --> 00:50:28.000
ton of detail. But once you've provided that

00:50:28.000 --> 00:50:30.679
initial information, you've sort of identified

00:50:30.679 --> 00:50:33.800
to your point who the players are, you've let

00:50:33.800 --> 00:50:36.239
them know about any injuries, whether you have

00:50:36.239 --> 00:50:38.960
some or not. There's a few basic things. But

00:50:38.960 --> 00:50:43.460
again, you're the victim. So just let them know

00:50:43.460 --> 00:50:47.119
I was the victim. And then. you're really just

00:50:47.119 --> 00:50:51.199
going to kind of get to waiting for the attorney.

00:50:51.420 --> 00:50:53.559
You know, what people shouldn't, what happens,

00:50:53.719 --> 00:50:56.900
and you brought this up, Craig, right? The adrenaline

00:50:56.900 --> 00:51:00.679
is going, your heart rate is up, and you may

00:51:00.679 --> 00:51:03.639
be in the early stages of PTSD. I mean, you're

00:51:03.639 --> 00:51:06.739
in shock, right? You've just done this horrific

00:51:06.739 --> 00:51:09.260
thing that you never thought would happen. You

00:51:09.260 --> 00:51:12.079
don't remember how many times you fired. Don't

00:51:12.079 --> 00:51:13.699
talk about any of that because you're not going

00:51:13.699 --> 00:51:16.079
to get it right. Police officers. They get two

00:51:16.079 --> 00:51:18.119
sleep cycles before they have to answer those

00:51:18.119 --> 00:51:20.019
kind of questions in an officer -involved shooting.

00:51:21.239 --> 00:51:23.400
That's the deal that the unions have with them.

00:51:23.500 --> 00:51:25.420
You know, we don't have that luxury, but we have

00:51:25.420 --> 00:51:26.739
the luxury of saying we're going to wait for

00:51:26.739 --> 00:51:29.860
the attorney. So saying too much really is the

00:51:29.860 --> 00:51:33.619
thing that happens. people need to be wary of.

00:51:33.760 --> 00:51:36.559
Because maybe they want to justify to themselves

00:51:36.559 --> 00:51:38.820
and to others what they've done. They want to

00:51:38.820 --> 00:51:42.039
help. They think that that's going to enhance

00:51:42.039 --> 00:51:45.019
their probability of success. They just want

00:51:45.019 --> 00:51:47.539
to get home to their family, probably any number

00:51:47.539 --> 00:51:50.599
of things. 100%. Yeah, it's just human nature.

00:51:50.800 --> 00:51:54.260
You know, your mind is racing. You're under stress.

00:51:54.320 --> 00:51:57.619
It's human nature to want to justify, particularly

00:51:57.619 --> 00:52:01.019
where you've feel really self -justified like

00:52:01.019 --> 00:52:03.599
this is so obvious that i'm just going to tell

00:52:03.599 --> 00:52:06.079
them everything and you and at some point you

00:52:06.079 --> 00:52:08.400
will but you don't need to do it right you don't

00:52:08.400 --> 00:52:10.139
need to do it right at that point now they may

00:52:10.139 --> 00:52:12.000
ask you things like hey i need your full name

00:52:12.000 --> 00:52:13.500
i need your date of birth i need your address

00:52:13.500 --> 00:52:16.159
of course give them that information right but

00:52:16.159 --> 00:52:18.679
beyond that you just say hey i'm going to cooperate

00:52:18.679 --> 00:52:21.280
i'm just waiting for the attorney when someone

00:52:21.280 --> 00:52:26.619
calls who are they talking to So the line is

00:52:26.619 --> 00:52:31.179
answered 24 -7, 365. When you call, there is

00:52:31.179 --> 00:52:33.780
an operator who answers. There's about a 30 -second

00:52:33.780 --> 00:52:37.860
screening process up front. And then you're connected

00:52:37.860 --> 00:52:42.000
immediately to our National Trial Counsel, Don

00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:45.199
West. So within a minute, you usually have Don

00:52:45.199 --> 00:52:47.559
on the phone. And people always ask, well, what

00:52:47.559 --> 00:52:49.800
are the screeners there for? Why do you do that?

00:52:49.880 --> 00:52:52.449
That doesn't make any sense. Sometimes people

00:52:52.449 --> 00:52:55.329
call that line. I'll explain the process in a

00:52:55.329 --> 00:52:57.630
minor level of detail, but sometimes people call

00:52:57.630 --> 00:53:01.869
that number by mistake. And they're members,

00:53:02.030 --> 00:53:04.349
but they're calling to update their credit card

00:53:04.349 --> 00:53:06.369
number. Well, that's not what that line is for.

00:53:06.769 --> 00:53:08.929
Or they call that line and they're not members.

00:53:10.250 --> 00:53:12.610
members of our competitors get confused and call

00:53:12.610 --> 00:53:14.789
that line we've had people call that line and

00:53:14.789 --> 00:53:17.190
want to sign up and be a member and so we just

00:53:17.190 --> 00:53:19.769
do some quick screening to get that cleared up

00:53:19.769 --> 00:53:23.889
and then we want to get the current accurate

00:53:23.889 --> 00:53:26.610
contact information because what we have in our

00:53:26.610 --> 00:53:29.269
system may not be what's usable when you're in

00:53:29.269 --> 00:53:31.329
an incident you may be separated from your phone

00:53:31.329 --> 00:53:34.840
the police may have your phone It may be someone

00:53:34.840 --> 00:53:37.840
calling on your behalf. Right. And so we're going

00:53:37.840 --> 00:53:40.420
to need a phone number that in case for some

00:53:40.420 --> 00:53:44.159
reason we become disconnected, that we can contact

00:53:44.159 --> 00:53:47.019
you or contact someone who's representing you

00:53:47.019 --> 00:53:49.900
as a family member or something. So it takes

00:53:49.900 --> 00:53:53.380
about 30 seconds. We don't we have a very specific

00:53:53.380 --> 00:53:56.679
instructions for the folks that answer that phone

00:53:56.679 --> 00:53:58.559
that we're not talking about the incident. They

00:53:58.559 --> 00:54:01.019
don't ask you, hey, what happened? That is not

00:54:01.019 --> 00:54:03.119
part of the call at all. They ask you if it's

00:54:03.119 --> 00:54:05.980
an emergency and you and if you say no, then

00:54:05.980 --> 00:54:08.539
they probe a little. But if you say yes, then

00:54:08.539 --> 00:54:10.219
we're off to the races. It gets connected to

00:54:10.219 --> 00:54:12.559
Don. And then that is a privileged conversation

00:54:12.559 --> 00:54:17.340
between Don and the member. And if Don doesn't

00:54:17.340 --> 00:54:20.760
answer my second attorney, Jennifer, she answers.

00:54:20.780 --> 00:54:23.159
We have a whole list and a protocol. So the phone

00:54:23.159 --> 00:54:24.960
is going to be answered. But it takes about a

00:54:24.960 --> 00:54:27.820
minute to get through to the attorney. longest

00:54:27.820 --> 00:54:30.079
minute of someone's life but i'll bet you that

00:54:30.079 --> 00:54:32.119
i mean it's good that you're not just sending

00:54:32.119 --> 00:54:33.900
it to a call center and like we'll get back to

00:54:33.900 --> 00:54:36.800
you because that would just cause yeah i mean

00:54:36.800 --> 00:54:38.619
you're already talking about shock and you just

00:54:38.619 --> 00:54:40.400
don't need additional stress at that point and

00:54:40.400 --> 00:54:43.059
i will put in a plug i mean if you know listeners

00:54:43.059 --> 00:54:46.679
i'm i'm advertising somebody else's podcast here

00:54:46.679 --> 00:54:50.500
um listening to the ccw podcast is an absolute

00:54:51.050 --> 00:54:54.550
you know, worthwhile endeavor. And Don West is

00:54:54.550 --> 00:54:57.190
just fantastic. And, you know, he has other guys

00:54:57.190 --> 00:54:59.309
on like Steve Moses and stuff, who, by the way,

00:54:59.329 --> 00:55:02.369
I trained with at TACCON last year in Dallas.

00:55:02.389 --> 00:55:04.690
And Steve is just a, you know, you have a lot

00:55:04.690 --> 00:55:07.289
of fantastic people that are on your podcast.

00:55:07.329 --> 00:55:09.750
And just, I can't do it justice here. We're just

00:55:09.750 --> 00:55:12.429
really trying to introduce CCW Safe. And really

00:55:12.429 --> 00:55:14.210
the idea of, even if they didn't choose your

00:55:14.210 --> 00:55:18.090
company, getting some sort of coverage. for themselves

00:55:18.090 --> 00:55:21.590
because to not do so is irresponsible. But, you

00:55:21.590 --> 00:55:24.030
know, it's one of those things. Yeah, I'm going

00:55:24.030 --> 00:55:26.150
to tell you something else. The ethics of our

00:55:26.150 --> 00:55:28.170
show is if we're talking about a product, we're

00:55:28.170 --> 00:55:30.769
not going to endorse that product and talk about

00:55:30.769 --> 00:55:32.469
that product unless we have experience with it.

00:55:33.070 --> 00:55:34.550
Well, it's a little different in this industry,

00:55:34.630 --> 00:55:36.230
isn't it? Because I can't like I'm not going

00:55:36.230 --> 00:55:38.889
to go out and get into, you know, a self -defense

00:55:38.889 --> 00:55:42.190
incident so I can test out whether or not I like

00:55:42.190 --> 00:55:46.090
CCW safe service or not. Because that, you know,

00:55:46.090 --> 00:55:48.250
and then and then try that for all the other

00:55:48.250 --> 00:55:51.630
companies. That's going to be expensive and unproductive.

00:55:52.070 --> 00:55:54.250
So, you know, there has to be a certain degree

00:55:54.250 --> 00:55:58.829
of trust here. Absolutely. And I'll say you just

00:55:58.829 --> 00:56:01.010
have to you have to do a little bit of research.

00:56:01.639 --> 00:56:03.440
And you have to prioritize the things that are

00:56:03.440 --> 00:56:05.039
important to you. You know, I answered the question

00:56:05.039 --> 00:56:08.760
earlier about some of the things that I think

00:56:08.760 --> 00:56:12.019
are the table stakes, the minimum things that

00:56:12.019 --> 00:56:14.460
you need from a provider. You know, one of the

00:56:14.460 --> 00:56:17.500
things that we do, Ken and Craig, that nobody

00:56:17.500 --> 00:56:22.400
else does is we have what I'll call is a real

00:56:22.400 --> 00:56:25.920
critical response team. that we deploy boots

00:56:25.920 --> 00:56:28.239
on the ground. So if it's a serious shooting

00:56:28.239 --> 00:56:30.219
or a lethal shooting, like you've shot someone

00:56:30.219 --> 00:56:32.780
and then we're going to deploy boots on the ground

00:56:32.780 --> 00:56:35.699
to your location within 24 hours to start assisting

00:56:35.699 --> 00:56:38.320
you in person. And my critical response team,

00:56:38.440 --> 00:56:41.699
they're retired homicide investigators. Chris,

00:56:41.780 --> 00:56:44.460
who's my lead on that now, she was 31 years Oklahoma

00:56:44.460 --> 00:56:48.280
City PD. She was 17 years as a homicide investigator.

00:56:49.119 --> 00:56:51.480
And she's coming to your location and she is

00:56:51.480 --> 00:56:53.340
going to look you in the eye or your spouse in

00:56:53.340 --> 00:56:55.639
the eye or whoever and get the process rolling.

00:56:55.820 --> 00:56:59.239
She is not there to investigate the scene and

00:56:59.239 --> 00:57:01.480
investigate whether you did the right thing or

00:57:01.480 --> 00:57:04.780
the wrong thing. She is there for what the police

00:57:04.780 --> 00:57:07.320
would call peer support. She's going to start

00:57:07.320 --> 00:57:10.239
helping get things facilitated. She's going to

00:57:10.239 --> 00:57:12.429
explain the process. This is what. What's going

00:57:12.429 --> 00:57:14.150
to happen next is what the police are going to

00:57:14.150 --> 00:57:16.250
do. She might take you to your first attorney's

00:57:16.250 --> 00:57:19.429
appointment. She's going to be facilitating to

00:57:19.429 --> 00:57:22.809
make sure that the bond gets paid. We'll be there

00:57:22.809 --> 00:57:24.690
waiting for you when you come out. You know,

00:57:24.730 --> 00:57:26.510
I can tell you a long story about a very serious

00:57:26.510 --> 00:57:29.230
incident with a member, but we're going to be

00:57:29.230 --> 00:57:32.210
there. She's going to make sure that you understand

00:57:32.210 --> 00:57:34.369
the things that you need to do to take care of

00:57:34.369 --> 00:57:36.050
yourself, the things that you need to do from

00:57:36.050 --> 00:57:38.909
a communication standpoint and how to. keep the

00:57:38.909 --> 00:57:42.070
information under control how to be healthy how

00:57:42.070 --> 00:57:44.190
to deal with the stress she might be helping

00:57:44.190 --> 00:57:47.289
coordinate counseling sessions which is something

00:57:47.289 --> 00:57:50.329
we offer to our members particularly if you've

00:57:50.329 --> 00:57:52.789
been in a shooting and god forbid a lethal shooting

00:57:52.789 --> 00:57:55.730
you need to talk to someone about that well chris

00:57:55.730 --> 00:57:57.849
is highly qualified to help select the right

00:57:57.849 --> 00:57:59.650
counselor you don't need a marriage counselor

00:57:59.650 --> 00:58:01.949
you need a trauma you know counselor you need

00:58:01.949 --> 00:58:04.429
the right person if the incident was inside your

00:58:04.429 --> 00:58:07.809
home Chris is going to be arranging someone in

00:58:07.809 --> 00:58:10.650
to come up and clean that scene up once the police

00:58:10.650 --> 00:58:13.150
release it back. And again, you know, that's

00:58:13.150 --> 00:58:15.469
not a job for merrymates. I'm sure they're great

00:58:15.469 --> 00:58:18.289
for your day to day cleaning, but you need biohazard

00:58:18.289 --> 00:58:20.230
qualified folks to come in and deal with some

00:58:20.230 --> 00:58:22.349
of that kind of stuff. And so Chris is going

00:58:22.349 --> 00:58:24.010
to be there or Gary, and they're going to be

00:58:24.010 --> 00:58:26.260
there working through. all these things with

00:58:26.260 --> 00:58:29.099
you in person for a couple of days. And it really

00:58:29.099 --> 00:58:30.920
just makes all the difference in the world. And

00:58:30.920 --> 00:58:32.719
again, if you were in jail and you haven't had

00:58:32.719 --> 00:58:34.320
a bond hearing yet, they're going to be there

00:58:34.320 --> 00:58:37.000
talking to your family to get them prepped for

00:58:37.000 --> 00:58:39.980
what's going on. And it makes a huge difference.

00:58:40.300 --> 00:58:43.199
Anybody that's been through that with us, where

00:58:43.199 --> 00:58:46.340
we've deployed the critical response team, they

00:58:46.340 --> 00:58:49.699
tell us at some point later in the process that

00:58:49.699 --> 00:58:54.739
that was the difference between massive unbearable

00:58:54.739 --> 00:58:58.320
levels of stress and being able to at least be

00:58:58.320 --> 00:59:01.159
as calm and relaxed as possible under the circumstances

00:59:01.159 --> 00:59:03.980
because somebody is there with you explaining

00:59:03.980 --> 00:59:06.380
what's going to happen preparing you and doing

00:59:06.380 --> 00:59:08.860
things for you that you don't need to be doing

00:59:08.860 --> 00:59:11.940
yourself that you don't you don't need your spouse

00:59:11.940 --> 00:59:15.519
stressed out with how do i get this scene cleaned

00:59:15.519 --> 00:59:19.159
up who's the best you know counselor how do i

00:59:19.159 --> 00:59:21.320
make sure the bond is paid and you know all that

00:59:21.320 --> 00:59:24.480
kind of stuff Is this the reason that you ranked

00:59:24.480 --> 00:59:30.280
so high in the GunUniversity .com rankings? That's

00:59:30.280 --> 00:59:33.139
one of the reasons. And again, nobody does that.

00:59:33.280 --> 00:59:36.519
I always say, I guess maybe because we're very

00:59:36.519 --> 00:59:39.139
proficient at it and we have such an amazing

00:59:39.139 --> 00:59:41.900
expert staff, I always think, well, this is easy.

00:59:42.019 --> 00:59:44.340
This is easy to do. Why wouldn't everybody do

00:59:44.340 --> 00:59:48.800
it? But I really don't believe that other people

00:59:48.800 --> 00:59:52.360
in this industry have. The founders that we have,

00:59:52.500 --> 00:59:56.500
the base level of knowledge about what's going

00:59:56.500 --> 00:59:59.199
to happen to someone who's been involved in these

00:59:59.199 --> 01:00:01.880
shootings through firsthand knowledge, through

01:00:01.880 --> 01:00:05.079
decades and decades as law enforcement or decades

01:00:05.079 --> 01:00:07.019
and decades as defense attorney. You know, these

01:00:07.019 --> 01:00:09.300
are all full time employees. They just don't

01:00:09.300 --> 01:00:11.219
have that knowledge. So they don't understand

01:00:11.219 --> 01:00:13.320
the value of it or they just don't want to do

01:00:13.320 --> 01:00:15.400
it. Maybe they're not willing to pay retired

01:00:15.400 --> 01:00:17.639
homicide investigators a full time salary to

01:00:17.639 --> 01:00:21.110
just be available. for these intermittent incidents

01:00:21.110 --> 01:00:24.050
because it's not super frequent. So there may

01:00:24.050 --> 01:00:26.010
be reasons that they don't do it, but we would

01:00:26.010 --> 01:00:28.570
never not do that. I mean, that is a key part

01:00:28.570 --> 01:00:30.150
of what we do. So I think that's part of it.

01:00:30.289 --> 01:00:33.250
I think that the legal expertise we have on staff

01:00:33.250 --> 01:00:35.869
is part of the reason that we get ranked high.

01:00:36.550 --> 01:00:39.190
You know, Don West, his credentials for people

01:00:39.190 --> 01:00:41.929
who don't know, right? Don is 39 years, or actually

01:00:41.929 --> 01:00:44.070
he's 40 years now of criminal defense experience.

01:00:44.230 --> 01:00:47.840
He was one of the The co -lead attorneys on the

01:00:47.840 --> 01:00:50.659
George Zimmerman case down in Florida 10 years

01:00:50.659 --> 01:00:54.059
ago. He's done numerous death penalty cases.

01:00:54.579 --> 01:00:57.500
I mean, there really is nobody better than Don.

01:00:57.659 --> 01:00:59.079
And that's who you get connected to when you

01:00:59.079 --> 01:01:01.639
call our hotline. He's the one primarily that's

01:01:01.639 --> 01:01:05.039
selecting your attorney. And so, you know, people,

01:01:05.139 --> 01:01:07.099
they just don't have these resources. Their critical

01:01:07.099 --> 01:01:10.320
response team is kind of, I assume, is more like

01:01:10.320 --> 01:01:12.320
people who are just going to process your paperwork.

01:01:12.739 --> 01:01:15.019
They sort of know what's going on, but they're

01:01:15.019 --> 01:01:17.869
not really. providing you valuable input they're

01:01:17.869 --> 01:01:21.150
facilitating what they do and we always say you

01:01:21.150 --> 01:01:23.969
know those other people pretty much most of the

01:01:23.969 --> 01:01:26.670
time do what they say they're going to do they

01:01:26.670 --> 01:01:29.690
just don't do the things that we do and so it

01:01:29.690 --> 01:01:31.530
doesn't make them good or bad they just don't

01:01:31.530 --> 01:01:33.630
do the things that we do and that i think that's

01:01:33.630 --> 01:01:36.030
the reason that you see the high ratings and

01:01:36.030 --> 01:01:38.369
of course we have you know unlimited funds but

01:01:38.369 --> 01:01:40.329
you know all of our plants now have a minimum

01:01:42.190 --> 01:01:44.329
Bond coverage of a million dollars. So we pay

01:01:44.329 --> 01:01:46.789
the bond premium, which would be $100 ,000. Some

01:01:46.789 --> 01:01:49.889
plans don't. There's a very popular attorney

01:01:49.889 --> 01:01:51.969
who's out there trying to start a program and

01:01:51.969 --> 01:01:54.769
his bond is $500 ,000. People say, well, that

01:01:54.769 --> 01:01:56.889
should be enough. In fact, I've heard people

01:01:56.889 --> 01:01:59.030
say, well, you're not going to get a million

01:01:59.030 --> 01:02:01.130
dollar bond because your incident is so serious.

01:02:01.170 --> 01:02:03.550
They're not going to give you anything. Well,

01:02:03.650 --> 01:02:05.929
that is not true. I can tell you we've had them

01:02:05.929 --> 01:02:11.559
and it happens. The we really bucket ourselves

01:02:11.559 --> 01:02:14.340
in three categories, deep, deep expertise. Nobody

01:02:14.340 --> 01:02:17.139
has what we have, the holistic coverage, all

01:02:17.139 --> 01:02:19.139
of those elements I'm talking about, all the

01:02:19.139 --> 01:02:20.940
things that the critical response team does,

01:02:21.059 --> 01:02:24.480
the counseling, all those little things, plus

01:02:24.480 --> 01:02:27.159
all the big things. And then it really is personal

01:02:27.159 --> 01:02:30.780
care. Again, you get a critical response person

01:02:30.780 --> 01:02:33.599
assigned to you. They're with you through the

01:02:33.599 --> 01:02:36.199
whole incident and beyond. I mean, Gary will

01:02:36.199 --> 01:02:38.179
tell you, there are people that went through

01:02:38.179 --> 01:02:40.960
critical response five years ago, six years ago.

01:02:41.000 --> 01:02:43.139
Even the guy I talked about earlier, the $400

01:02:43.139 --> 01:02:46.019
,000 case, that murder case, it's 10 years later.

01:02:46.280 --> 01:02:49.099
We talk to him all the time. Wow. He's a friend.

01:02:49.320 --> 01:02:52.760
Really? Christmas cards every year. He does videos

01:02:52.760 --> 01:02:56.219
for us. He loves evangelizing our service. But,

01:02:56.219 --> 01:02:58.420
you know, Mike, who's the founder, you know,

01:02:58.420 --> 01:03:00.940
Mike answered his call when he called in nine

01:03:00.940 --> 01:03:03.320
or 10 years ago, whatever that was. You know,

01:03:03.340 --> 01:03:05.239
they talked several times a year just talking

01:03:05.239 --> 01:03:08.360
about how's everything going, what's doing. You

01:03:08.360 --> 01:03:11.980
know, he went through, I can't even describe

01:03:11.980 --> 01:03:13.719
all the things that he went through. But you

01:03:13.719 --> 01:03:15.360
mentioned it maybe really early in this call,

01:03:15.480 --> 01:03:18.380
right, the stress. So he ended up getting divorced

01:03:18.380 --> 01:03:21.860
in his process. He lost his job. You know, he

01:03:21.860 --> 01:03:26.050
had taken someone's life. So he all this stuff

01:03:26.050 --> 01:03:28.989
that he went through, I was with him in November

01:03:28.989 --> 01:03:31.949
last year. We were shooting some video and we

01:03:31.949 --> 01:03:34.769
were having a beer at the hotel afterwards. And

01:03:34.769 --> 01:03:37.610
I asked him, I said, you know, after all these

01:03:37.610 --> 01:03:41.929
years, how is like. How do you do you still deal

01:03:41.929 --> 01:03:43.590
with it? If you do, what does that look like?

01:03:43.610 --> 01:03:46.460
And he said. And he said, well, you know, it

01:03:46.460 --> 01:03:48.300
was a point where it was every single day I would

01:03:48.300 --> 01:03:50.059
think about for years and years and years that

01:03:50.059 --> 01:03:51.619
I took somebody's life. He said, it's a little

01:03:51.619 --> 01:03:53.719
less frequent, but he said, it's certainly every

01:03:53.719 --> 01:03:56.920
week I realized that I ended somebody's life.

01:03:57.019 --> 01:03:59.000
And that person had a spouse. That person had

01:03:59.000 --> 01:04:00.960
kids. He said, now I'm 100 percent confident

01:04:00.960 --> 01:04:04.039
I'd be dead if I didn't do what I had to do.

01:04:04.420 --> 01:04:07.159
He goes, but you still deal with that, that you

01:04:07.159 --> 01:04:10.599
don't just counsel that away and forget it. He

01:04:10.599 --> 01:04:13.320
said, so it's it probably will never leave me.

01:04:13.380 --> 01:04:16.179
And the interesting thing he said in that conversation,

01:04:16.380 --> 01:04:19.300
too, is that he actually carries less after that

01:04:19.300 --> 01:04:22.239
incident, not more. And I think the weight of

01:04:22.239 --> 01:04:24.800
what he had to do affects that. He said, now,

01:04:24.820 --> 01:04:26.679
look, it's circumstantial. You know, I used to

01:04:26.679 --> 01:04:30.179
carry all the time. Now I'm just selecting the

01:04:30.179 --> 01:04:32.260
places that I think, you know, are maybe more

01:04:32.260 --> 01:04:34.699
dangerous. And I don't need to carry when I just

01:04:34.699 --> 01:04:37.239
go to the grocery store or pick up the kids or

01:04:37.239 --> 01:04:40.409
whatever it might be. It was a really interesting

01:04:40.409 --> 01:04:42.329
conversation, but he's a friend of the business.

01:04:42.510 --> 01:04:44.989
And so I think there's a lot of reasons that

01:04:44.989 --> 01:04:47.250
the gun university would rank us number one,

01:04:47.250 --> 01:04:50.389
but you know, the Ryan Kleckner over there who

01:04:50.389 --> 01:04:52.570
writes their articles and reviews, you know,

01:04:52.570 --> 01:04:55.250
he's a firearms attorney, he's a former special

01:04:55.250 --> 01:04:58.690
forces, and he has a really good understanding

01:04:58.690 --> 01:05:01.349
of the kinds of things that, that companies in

01:05:01.349 --> 01:05:03.269
our industry do. And so we're, we're proud that

01:05:03.269 --> 01:05:05.159
he ranks us number one. I'll give you a little

01:05:05.159 --> 01:05:08.139
bit of credit here, too. Your website is easy

01:05:08.139 --> 01:05:12.019
to navigate in terms of picking the plans. I

01:05:12.019 --> 01:05:15.639
did find it interesting, though, that in my case,

01:05:15.639 --> 01:05:18.039
it recommended the one that I have, which is

01:05:18.039 --> 01:05:20.320
the Defender plan. I thought, well, what if I

01:05:20.320 --> 01:05:24.980
want something more? Can't I have more stuff,

01:05:25.099 --> 01:05:27.639
you know, and maybe have the protector plan?

01:05:27.719 --> 01:05:29.539
It looks like you can do those things, but it's

01:05:29.539 --> 01:05:31.900
trying to maybe balance, you know, getting back

01:05:31.900 --> 01:05:34.300
to the frugal aspect of this is trying to balance

01:05:34.300 --> 01:05:38.880
the best plan for the circumstances that you

01:05:38.880 --> 01:05:43.239
largely find yourself in. I'm a citizen. My situation

01:05:43.239 --> 01:05:45.820
would only be home defense or, you know, perhaps

01:05:45.820 --> 01:05:48.769
carrying in public, you know. the Walmart or

01:05:48.769 --> 01:05:51.489
whatever the case might be. And it does a good

01:05:51.489 --> 01:05:54.030
job in that. But if someone does want more, the

01:05:54.030 --> 01:05:57.329
options, the add -ons are there. They are, right?

01:05:57.449 --> 01:06:01.570
And the Defender is the core plan, right? And

01:06:01.570 --> 01:06:04.710
the core benefits, like those table stakes things

01:06:04.710 --> 01:06:07.030
that I talked about earlier, right? Unlimited

01:06:07.030 --> 01:06:10.670
funds, no caps, critical response, you know,

01:06:10.710 --> 01:06:13.670
ability to pay. That's in all of our plans. You

01:06:13.670 --> 01:06:16.000
don't have to upgrade anything to get. the critical

01:06:16.000 --> 01:06:18.019
response team. You don't have to be in an upgrade

01:06:18.019 --> 01:06:20.659
to get unlimited funds for their defense costs.

01:06:20.920 --> 01:06:23.920
So that's the core plan. That's where you start.

01:06:24.159 --> 01:06:27.719
And if your spouse is going to carry outside

01:06:27.719 --> 01:06:30.699
the home, you can add them to the plan, right?

01:06:30.760 --> 01:06:34.199
If your spouse is just, she's covered as a courtesy

01:06:34.199 --> 01:06:37.940
as our non -adult children inside the home. So

01:06:37.940 --> 01:06:39.719
you don't have to do anything for that. That's

01:06:39.719 --> 01:06:41.840
a courtesy in all the plans. Well, that's important

01:06:41.840 --> 01:06:44.500
to know. I don't think people would. I didn't

01:06:44.500 --> 01:06:47.199
know that, that my wife was covered. Inside the

01:06:47.199 --> 01:06:50.400
home, she is. Absolutely. Yeah. No, I didn't

01:06:50.400 --> 01:06:52.199
know that at all. Yeah, but if she's going to

01:06:52.199 --> 01:06:54.219
carry outside the home, we want to add her to

01:06:54.219 --> 01:06:59.500
the. She's not doing that. That's not going to

01:06:59.500 --> 01:07:02.139
happen. That's pretty normal. That's right. Very,

01:07:02.280 --> 01:07:05.199
very normal. And, you know, actually. it's a

01:07:05.199 --> 01:07:06.780
little harder to find on the website but let's

01:07:06.780 --> 01:07:09.199
say you and your wife were out to the movies

01:07:09.199 --> 01:07:12.480
or dinner or shopping or whatever you were carrying

01:07:12.480 --> 01:07:16.440
and you guys got attacked and you became incapacitated

01:07:16.440 --> 01:07:19.760
for some reason and she had took the firearm

01:07:19.760 --> 01:07:23.300
and stepped in we would cover that too okay yeah

01:07:23.300 --> 01:07:26.179
so it's a little harder to get that one described

01:07:26.179 --> 01:07:29.769
correctly but sure But we would cover that too.

01:07:29.809 --> 01:07:32.010
But it's important, but it's an important consideration.

01:07:32.130 --> 01:07:35.230
I mean, I think that some of the larger companies

01:07:35.230 --> 01:07:37.309
have fallen. I'm not going to name them because

01:07:37.309 --> 01:07:39.389
we don't disparage other companies by name on

01:07:39.389 --> 01:07:41.889
this show. But some of the other companies have

01:07:41.889 --> 01:07:44.969
run into trouble because they have, you know,

01:07:44.969 --> 01:07:47.489
the fine print that probably most people don't

01:07:47.489 --> 01:07:52.750
read has caused gaps in coverage where people

01:07:52.750 --> 01:07:54.889
thought, well, logically, I should be covered

01:07:54.889 --> 01:07:57.659
for this. And I wasn't. Ooh, big surprise at

01:07:57.659 --> 01:08:01.360
the wrong time. And I'm going to kind of tag

01:08:01.360 --> 01:08:04.960
onto that idea. And I appreciate we are frugal

01:08:04.960 --> 01:08:07.699
firearms. So we're always looking for the deal.

01:08:07.820 --> 01:08:10.599
I mean, the value, because we're not necessarily

01:08:10.599 --> 01:08:14.599
wealthy people. And I like the way that your

01:08:14.599 --> 01:08:17.619
price point comes in at this. I have a question.

01:08:18.220 --> 01:08:21.539
Do you ever find or have you ever had an incident

01:08:21.539 --> 01:08:23.640
where a person carried, say, both your defender

01:08:23.640 --> 01:08:26.579
plan and then an alternate company's plan as

01:08:26.579 --> 01:08:28.779
well, where you had they carry two different

01:08:28.779 --> 01:08:32.060
plans? And in that situation, you know, what

01:08:32.060 --> 01:08:37.260
happens? Yes, that is. It's rare, but there are

01:08:37.260 --> 01:08:39.960
people that belong to more than one organization.

01:08:40.970 --> 01:08:43.189
And we actually have that in our terms of service.

01:08:43.289 --> 01:08:45.670
So we have a cooperation clause in there. We

01:08:45.670 --> 01:08:49.409
will work with the other provider however is

01:08:49.409 --> 01:08:52.989
necessary. Sometimes it's a function of who did

01:08:52.989 --> 01:08:57.210
they call first. So if they've called us first

01:08:57.210 --> 01:09:00.310
and we already have the attorney, there's not

01:09:00.310 --> 01:09:02.750
much else the other guys really ever have to

01:09:02.750 --> 01:09:05.449
add because they don't do all the things that

01:09:05.449 --> 01:09:08.220
we do. But if they did. we would cooperate with

01:09:08.220 --> 01:09:09.939
them and take advantage of that. We've had some

01:09:09.939 --> 01:09:11.920
where they've called the other guys first and

01:09:11.920 --> 01:09:14.279
they've already located the attorney. And then

01:09:14.279 --> 01:09:16.760
sort of some of the extras that we do that they

01:09:16.760 --> 01:09:20.260
don't, we filled in the gaps where maybe our

01:09:20.260 --> 01:09:23.460
plan was a little superior to theirs in some

01:09:23.460 --> 01:09:26.399
of the areas. So we absolutely cooperate and

01:09:26.399 --> 01:09:29.359
we've had calls. I mean, I'm gonna try not to

01:09:29.359 --> 01:09:32.239
go into a long story, but our most famous multi

01:09:32.239 --> 01:09:34.479
-member call, again, was years and years ago,

01:09:34.579 --> 01:09:37.739
was on Thanksgiving day. It was in Las Vegas,

01:09:37.840 --> 01:09:41.319
and the guy was a member of CCW Safe. Okay, we're

01:09:41.319 --> 01:09:42.840
not mentioning the other names, so I'm not going

01:09:42.840 --> 01:09:45.380
to do that. Well, you can. Just don't disparage

01:09:45.380 --> 01:09:47.399
them in the process. You can mention other companies.

01:09:47.579 --> 01:09:50.119
Their response would be disparaging, but I won't

01:09:50.119 --> 01:09:52.399
name them because we don't do that. Again, we

01:09:52.399 --> 01:09:54.180
always say they pretty much do what they're going

01:09:54.180 --> 01:09:56.720
to say they're going to do. We just do more than

01:09:56.720 --> 01:09:59.340
they do. So there was one of the bigger ones.

01:09:59.760 --> 01:10:02.260
So for anybody who's knowing, one of the bigger

01:10:02.260 --> 01:10:05.250
ones. And then one. that isn't even around anymore.

01:10:05.550 --> 01:10:08.710
And they called all three on Thanksgiving night,

01:10:08.810 --> 01:10:12.609
Thanksgiving evening. And in those days, I think

01:10:12.609 --> 01:10:15.750
this was, again, probably 2015, we didn't have

01:10:15.750 --> 01:10:18.850
a hotline. The hotline was Mike's cell phone.

01:10:19.210 --> 01:10:22.750
And so he answered. And we had boots on the ground

01:10:22.750 --> 01:10:26.289
the next day, had the attorney, everything. We

01:10:26.289 --> 01:10:28.270
just had it rocking and rolling. So the other

01:10:28.270 --> 01:10:30.989
two did not answer. and one of them i'm talking

01:10:30.989 --> 01:10:32.770
about one of the really big ones they did not

01:10:32.770 --> 01:10:34.710
answer the phone on thanksgiving day so they

01:10:34.710 --> 01:10:38.069
left messages of both of these places one of

01:10:38.069 --> 01:10:42.050
them called him back i believe on saturday and

01:10:42.050 --> 01:10:44.170
he said well ccw safe's already been here and

01:10:44.170 --> 01:10:46.850
i got an attorney and they're like okay cool

01:10:46.850 --> 01:10:49.909
if you need anything let us know um and then

01:10:49.909 --> 01:10:51.890
the other one called him back on monday and said

01:10:51.890 --> 01:10:53.789
oh you should call your homeowner's insurance

01:10:55.279 --> 01:10:58.479
That's a true story. Excuse me. I can tell that

01:10:58.479 --> 01:11:00.079
better than I can, but I've heard it so many

01:11:00.079 --> 01:11:02.140
times. I'm trying to paraphrase what he said,

01:11:02.220 --> 01:11:04.800
but yeah. And so that, you know, that was a long

01:11:04.800 --> 01:11:07.779
time ago. We would not expect that of our competitors

01:11:07.779 --> 01:11:10.460
these days that they would, they of course should

01:11:10.460 --> 01:11:12.060
be answering the phone. They should be trying

01:11:12.060 --> 01:11:15.439
to respond to you, but we will cooperate. That's

01:11:15.439 --> 01:11:17.720
no problem at all. We would love, they called

01:11:17.720 --> 01:11:21.180
us first because we just feel like that we're

01:11:21.180 --> 01:11:25.310
going to give you. The best odds of the best

01:11:25.310 --> 01:11:29.090
outcome for you based on the circumstances or

01:11:29.090 --> 01:11:32.010
facts of your incident that when you work with

01:11:32.010 --> 01:11:34.350
us or remember with us, you will get the best

01:11:34.350 --> 01:11:37.890
possible outcome. Can't change the facts, but

01:11:37.890 --> 01:11:40.869
we can do everything else at a high level of

01:11:40.869 --> 01:11:42.710
excellence that will get you the best possible

01:11:42.710 --> 01:11:44.970
outcome. That was a great quote right there.

01:11:45.029 --> 01:11:47.449
I probably. use that, you know, maybe in the

01:11:47.449 --> 01:11:49.449
front end of the show is sometimes I clip, you

01:11:49.449 --> 01:11:52.109
know, important things out and kind of highlight

01:11:52.109 --> 01:11:55.270
them that way. Any funny anecdotal stories, things

01:11:55.270 --> 01:11:57.850
like that, that our listeners would like to hear?

01:11:57.989 --> 01:12:01.390
And do you want to, you know, at this time, talk

01:12:01.390 --> 01:12:04.170
about either I've already You know, said many

01:12:04.170 --> 01:12:06.189
good things about your podcast, but your website,

01:12:06.470 --> 01:12:08.850
you know, any membership discounts, things like

01:12:08.850 --> 01:12:11.750
that, YouTube channels or anything that you want

01:12:11.750 --> 01:12:14.029
to get people focused on so they could learn

01:12:14.029 --> 01:12:16.390
more about about you and why you do it and what

01:12:16.390 --> 01:12:19.590
you do. Well, you know, there's not really any

01:12:19.590 --> 01:12:22.829
funny stories, you know, not I mean, it's a very

01:12:22.829 --> 01:12:26.279
serious. industry there's a very serious service

01:12:26.279 --> 01:12:29.920
that we offer now are we all funny individual

01:12:29.920 --> 01:12:33.340
people on our own yes but you know we're very

01:12:33.340 --> 01:12:36.520
serious we just exist to care for the members

01:12:36.520 --> 01:12:41.140
in what happens to them and so we don't have

01:12:41.140 --> 01:12:44.100
any funny anecdotes per se but i would tell you

01:12:44.100 --> 01:12:48.920
in response to the rest of that question people

01:12:48.920 --> 01:12:51.520
go to the website Even if you're a member somewhere

01:12:51.520 --> 01:12:53.699
else or you're an existing member or maybe you

01:12:53.699 --> 01:12:55.819
never intend to be a member of any of these things

01:12:55.819 --> 01:12:58.880
because you don't think you need it. I would

01:12:58.880 --> 01:13:01.180
encourage you to go and read. But if you just

01:13:01.180 --> 01:13:04.520
want to access the educational and training resources,

01:13:04.760 --> 01:13:06.880
go to our website at the top. It'll say resources

01:13:06.880 --> 01:13:10.159
and you can go to education and training. I have

01:13:10.159 --> 01:13:13.060
a thousand plus pieces of content on there that

01:13:13.060 --> 01:13:16.640
you can search through by topic, author, you

01:13:16.640 --> 01:13:19.100
know, their old podcast, their articles. There

01:13:19.100 --> 01:13:21.079
are so many things in there that will help you

01:13:21.079 --> 01:13:24.039
be better prepared for your self -defense incident

01:13:24.039 --> 01:13:26.819
or will help you learn from somebody else's incident

01:13:26.819 --> 01:13:29.399
or will help you learn how to train better. Do

01:13:29.399 --> 01:13:32.100
that. We also have a state laws section on the

01:13:32.100 --> 01:13:34.500
website that's relatively new. We've only had

01:13:34.500 --> 01:13:37.180
that for about six months now. So if you're traveling

01:13:37.180 --> 01:13:39.300
and you're going to Colorado and you want to

01:13:39.300 --> 01:13:41.699
know what the firearms laws are there, you can

01:13:41.699 --> 01:13:44.119
go on to that section of the site and it'll tell

01:13:44.119 --> 01:13:46.000
you all the relevant laws. And that's a good

01:13:46.000 --> 01:13:47.920
resource for people. That's all completely free.

01:13:48.530 --> 01:13:51.270
So I would encourage them to do that. Our podcast,

01:13:51.590 --> 01:13:54.869
you can get on all the major platforms, you know,

01:13:54.890 --> 01:13:57.649
Apple, Spotify. You can find them on YouTube

01:13:57.649 --> 01:14:01.029
as well. We do have a couple of bigger consumer

01:14:01.029 --> 01:14:03.109
events that will be working this year. So if

01:14:03.109 --> 01:14:04.930
you're an NRA member and you're coming to their

01:14:04.930 --> 01:14:08.090
show in Atlanta next month, we'll have a booth

01:14:08.090 --> 01:14:09.750
there and you can come and meet and talk to us

01:14:09.750 --> 01:14:12.609
there. You know, like our critical response team

01:14:12.609 --> 01:14:14.270
folks will be there. So if you really want to

01:14:14.270 --> 01:14:16.750
see the person. that might show up and talk to

01:14:16.750 --> 01:14:19.189
them about their credentials. You know, Chris

01:14:19.189 --> 01:14:21.630
will be in the booth. And so that's a good place.

01:14:21.710 --> 01:14:25.109
We'll be at the GOA show in August, I think,

01:14:25.109 --> 01:14:27.029
which is in Knoxville again this year. They had

01:14:27.029 --> 01:14:29.350
their first show last year. So if you're a GOA

01:14:29.350 --> 01:14:32.050
member, come by and see us there. We're the first

01:14:32.050 --> 01:14:35.130
booth right inside the door. But those are two

01:14:35.130 --> 01:14:37.010
good opportunities to come and see the whole

01:14:37.010 --> 01:14:38.789
team and hear about things if you're going to

01:14:38.789 --> 01:14:41.170
go to those events anyway. And we saw you at

01:14:41.170 --> 01:14:44.090
SHOT Show. SHOT Show was our first time we were

01:14:44.090 --> 01:14:47.649
rolling out a partner program so that we're working

01:14:47.649 --> 01:14:50.989
with ranges and firearms retailers and even firearms

01:14:50.989 --> 01:14:54.210
trainers to help get our program in front of

01:14:54.210 --> 01:14:58.289
consumers at more of the decision point. Right.

01:14:58.390 --> 01:15:01.010
You're taking a concealed carry class. So we'll

01:15:01.010 --> 01:15:03.430
train that firearms trainer to present our program

01:15:03.430 --> 01:15:05.630
so you can sign up there or we might even in

01:15:05.630 --> 01:15:09.039
some locations send a person in. to speak to

01:15:09.039 --> 01:15:10.899
the class so that you can hear firsthand from

01:15:10.899 --> 01:15:14.060
one of our folks and sign up as a member. I think

01:15:14.060 --> 01:15:15.760
you, and talking about signing up as a member,

01:15:15.819 --> 01:15:17.500
I think you had mentioned that there may be a

01:15:17.500 --> 01:15:20.220
discount code for listeners that you. Yes, we'll

01:15:20.220 --> 01:15:22.619
do that for your members. And we don't do a lot

01:15:22.619 --> 01:15:24.239
of these. I'm sure everybody says that when they

01:15:24.239 --> 01:15:26.539
get on this call on these things, but we really

01:15:26.539 --> 01:15:29.659
don't. I have a code that I just set up for you

01:15:29.659 --> 01:15:34.619
guys. And so it's frugal 10. Okay. One zero.

01:15:34.899 --> 01:15:38.949
So F R U G A L one zero. And that'll be good

01:15:38.949 --> 01:15:43.270
through the end of March. Okay, great. That's

01:15:43.270 --> 01:15:47.170
10 % off of any of our annual plans. So you can

01:15:47.170 --> 01:15:49.149
pay for our plans monthly if you want to. We

01:15:49.149 --> 01:15:51.810
don't do any discounts on those. But so if you

01:15:51.810 --> 01:15:54.210
sign up for the Defender plan, which is $209

01:15:54.210 --> 01:15:58.649
a year, you're going to get $20 and change off

01:15:58.649 --> 01:16:01.680
of that. And if you sign up for the ultimate

01:16:01.680 --> 01:16:04.279
plan, which is $519, you're going to save some

01:16:04.279 --> 01:16:06.840
big bucks, which is a bundle plan that includes

01:16:06.840 --> 01:16:09.800
a bunch of other add -ons in it. Enough to take

01:16:09.800 --> 01:16:11.659
the wife out for dinner, perhaps, or something

01:16:11.659 --> 01:16:13.979
like that. That's right. It depends on your wife's

01:16:13.979 --> 01:16:19.279
taste, but yes. Mine's very simple. She's great.

01:16:19.380 --> 01:16:22.859
She'll go anywhere. Well, yeah, those are great.

01:16:23.159 --> 01:16:25.000
We would love for people to use that code. It

01:16:25.000 --> 01:16:27.739
will go down automatically at the end of March.

01:16:28.470 --> 01:16:30.909
So if you call us on April 1st, my team is going

01:16:30.909 --> 01:16:34.130
to say, no, it's not there. So just go and put

01:16:34.130 --> 01:16:35.869
that. There's a place to put it in when you sign

01:16:35.869 --> 01:16:38.350
up. And if you need help signing up or you want

01:16:38.350 --> 01:16:41.149
to talk about the plans, we're here 8 to 5 Central

01:16:41.149 --> 01:16:45.569
Time. The 800 number is on the website. I have

01:16:45.569 --> 01:16:48.090
a highly trained and qualified group of people

01:16:48.090 --> 01:16:50.850
who answer the phones and they really know what

01:16:50.850 --> 01:16:52.550
they're doing. I'll give the number in case people

01:16:52.550 --> 01:16:53.930
want to write it down and they don't want to

01:16:53.930 --> 01:16:58.060
go to the website. It's 855. six, three, nine,

01:16:58.140 --> 01:17:02.699
two, two, nine, seven. Very good. And that's

01:17:02.699 --> 01:17:06.100
a CCW safe. That's it. Yep. We're right there.

01:17:06.180 --> 01:17:09.899
And everything you want to know, we just, we

01:17:09.899 --> 01:17:12.140
love helping people. You know, that's why we

01:17:12.140 --> 01:17:14.380
exist. I say this all the time. People think

01:17:14.380 --> 01:17:17.939
it's trite or, or overly used, but that's all

01:17:17.939 --> 01:17:21.399
we exist for. We don't sell training programs.

01:17:21.520 --> 01:17:24.840
We don't sell backpacks and range bags and t

01:17:24.840 --> 01:17:29.279
-shirts. This is all we do. People want to buy

01:17:29.279 --> 01:17:31.880
T -shirts. They're like, I want to buy a T -shirt

01:17:31.880 --> 01:17:33.420
on the website. We just say, hey, you know what?

01:17:33.460 --> 01:17:34.880
Tell us what size you are. We'll just send it

01:17:34.880 --> 01:17:37.539
to you for free. I don't want to hire people

01:17:37.539 --> 01:17:40.100
who are experts at ordering T -shirts and shipping

01:17:40.100 --> 01:17:43.260
T -shirts. I want all of our resources to be

01:17:43.260 --> 01:17:45.159
something that serves the member after a self

01:17:45.159 --> 01:17:47.260
-defense incident. Yes, we have some that just

01:17:47.260 --> 01:17:49.460
operate in the business, accounting and marketing.

01:17:50.409 --> 01:17:52.210
We're not going to get into any of this other

01:17:52.210 --> 01:17:54.170
stuff. We're not distracted. This is all that

01:17:54.170 --> 01:17:56.810
we do is self -defense legal services. That's

01:17:56.810 --> 01:17:59.550
great. I love that. And by the way, thank you,

01:17:59.550 --> 01:18:02.090
Kent. This has been an outstanding show. I mean,

01:18:02.109 --> 01:18:04.350
all of our shows are great, honestly, but this

01:18:04.350 --> 01:18:09.390
one is more important than most. Kent, any final

01:18:09.390 --> 01:18:13.310
questions for Kent? No, I really appreciate the

01:18:13.310 --> 01:18:15.270
opportunity to sit down and talk to you, Kent.

01:18:16.449 --> 01:18:19.710
Very, very much. I think this is probably, as

01:18:19.710 --> 01:18:22.430
I say, the single most important thing that anybody

01:18:22.430 --> 01:18:24.350
carrying concealed, whether you're in a constitutional

01:18:24.350 --> 01:18:27.750
carry state or in a state that requires a CCW

01:18:27.750 --> 01:18:30.489
like California, like we're in. But definitely

01:18:30.489 --> 01:18:33.310
you have to be covered. If not with CCW safe,

01:18:33.430 --> 01:18:36.489
then with somebody. It is essential. And once

01:18:36.489 --> 01:18:38.789
again, Kent, really appreciate your time. Thank

01:18:38.789 --> 01:18:40.489
you so much. You've been very generous. My pleasure,

01:18:40.550 --> 01:18:43.329
guys. I enjoyed it. It was happy to be here and

01:18:43.329 --> 01:18:46.729
maybe I'll come back someday. Wow. What a lot

01:18:46.729 --> 01:18:50.810
of information. That was incredible. And you

01:18:50.810 --> 01:18:53.989
know what? We were talking to a guy who is the

01:18:53.989 --> 01:18:56.229
CEO, which is important, but we weren't even

01:18:56.229 --> 01:18:59.489
talking to the legal counsel. And perhaps that'll

01:18:59.489 --> 01:19:02.189
be something that will feature in a future show.

01:19:02.670 --> 01:19:05.170
And there are a lot of companies out there that

01:19:05.170 --> 01:19:08.010
do this. And obviously some do it better than

01:19:08.010 --> 01:19:10.449
others. Some of those stories were. I mean, can

01:19:10.449 --> 01:19:14.270
you imagine, Ken, being on the side of that phone

01:19:14.270 --> 01:19:17.989
call and hoping for salvation, and you get, like,

01:19:18.329 --> 01:19:21.250
no answer? Or an answering service? That would

01:19:21.250 --> 01:19:25.500
be horrific, yeah. You call your... other company,

01:19:25.579 --> 01:19:28.420
for example, and they don't even bother to pick

01:19:28.420 --> 01:19:30.340
up the phone or leave a message and they will

01:19:30.340 --> 01:19:33.260
call you back during the most horrific time that

01:19:33.260 --> 01:19:35.880
you're probably entire life. And expensive. So

01:19:35.880 --> 01:19:37.939
I really like to, yeah, and expensive, exactly.

01:19:38.220 --> 01:19:41.060
I really like the CCWCF. I think they fit very

01:19:41.060 --> 01:19:43.819
well into our frugal firearms aspect. I like

01:19:43.819 --> 01:19:45.920
the fact that they have, what, six or seven different

01:19:45.920 --> 01:19:50.539
plans for almost anybody. So I would encourage

01:19:50.539 --> 01:19:54.460
people to go out and take a look at this. Yeah,

01:19:54.979 --> 01:19:57.220
and looking at their website, they have different

01:19:57.220 --> 01:20:00.359
plans that are meant for permitted personnel

01:20:00.359 --> 01:20:05.560
and non -permitted people. So it's a total of

01:20:05.560 --> 01:20:08.739
that. I mean, there's an HR 218 plan, which doesn't

01:20:08.739 --> 01:20:10.800
apply to too many people. Law enforcement for

01:20:10.800 --> 01:20:12.180
retired law enforcement. Yeah, it doesn't apply

01:20:12.180 --> 01:20:13.960
to a lot of people. And they have one that's

01:20:13.960 --> 01:20:16.619
for House of Worship volunteer security teams.

01:20:17.340 --> 01:20:19.739
Which sadly is more and more important these

01:20:19.739 --> 01:20:22.210
days, yes. other than that yeah you're right

01:20:22.210 --> 01:20:24.850
there's there's six other plans three in in permitted

01:20:24.850 --> 01:20:27.890
and three and non -permitted personnel so there's

01:20:27.890 --> 01:20:30.609
a lot of variety here and then you get to be

01:20:30.609 --> 01:20:33.050
responsible for it isn't just i have insurance

01:20:33.050 --> 01:20:36.149
but i i i'm saying the word insurance i shouldn't

01:20:36.149 --> 01:20:39.970
be i have coverage coverage i've also tailored

01:20:39.970 --> 01:20:44.500
it to my exact needs and and i'm not I'm not

01:20:44.500 --> 01:20:46.399
going to mention the company, but I'm not paying

01:20:46.399 --> 01:20:48.720
for what I don't need. And if you've seen the

01:20:48.720 --> 01:20:51.319
commercials on TV, then you know which company

01:20:51.319 --> 01:20:53.319
you're talking about. Okay, let's go ahead and

01:20:53.319 --> 01:20:55.479
close this one out. Two excellent shows, both

01:20:55.479 --> 01:20:58.319
of them very important. Hopefully the next show

01:20:58.319 --> 01:21:00.460
will be maybe a product -based show, something

01:21:00.460 --> 01:21:02.859
a little bit lighter, because this has been a

01:21:02.859 --> 01:21:05.579
couple heavy topics, honestly. but important

01:21:05.579 --> 01:21:08.159
ones. So thank you guys for listening. I want

01:21:08.159 --> 01:21:11.300
to remind everybody of the importance of subscribing,

01:21:11.579 --> 01:21:15.199
the importance of leaving positive comments,

01:21:15.380 --> 01:21:18.500
the importance of passing the word on because

01:21:18.500 --> 01:21:21.939
this show only exists for the listeners out there.

01:21:22.020 --> 01:21:24.859
And as we grow the listener base, we get better

01:21:24.859 --> 01:21:27.279
and better guests because those people do ask

01:21:27.279 --> 01:21:30.500
questions about how many people are in your listening

01:21:30.500 --> 01:21:33.380
audience. They care about that because they don't

01:21:33.380 --> 01:21:35.899
want to spend their time talking to a small audience.

01:21:36.039 --> 01:21:39.000
They want big audiences. So help us help you

01:21:39.000 --> 01:21:41.300
get the show to be better. Good night, folks.

01:22:00.460 --> 01:22:01.920
And I called Chris. I said, you want to go? You

01:22:01.920 --> 01:22:03.560
got to go to the airport in like an hour. And

01:22:03.560 --> 01:22:06.960
she's like, I'm in. And she went and it was very,

01:22:07.159 --> 01:22:10.100
very, very serious incident. And she participated

01:22:10.100 --> 01:22:13.359
with Gary. And it was a Friday, Saturday. They

01:22:13.359 --> 01:22:15.720
came back on Sunday and she called me Monday

01:22:15.720 --> 01:22:17.840
morning at like 730. And she goes, when can I

01:22:17.840 --> 01:22:21.539
start? And I go, yeah. And she heard this was

01:22:21.539 --> 01:22:24.760
her reasoning. She said, I spent decades going

01:22:24.760 --> 01:22:27.760
to crime scenes with one perspective. Who did

01:22:27.760 --> 01:22:30.100
it? How do I solve this? How do we hold someone

01:22:30.100 --> 01:22:32.220
accountable? You know, the general law enforcement.

01:22:32.340 --> 01:22:35.060
But sure. And she goes, now I get to show up

01:22:35.060 --> 01:22:38.060
and help somebody. Yeah. Just got through this

01:22:38.060 --> 01:22:40.359
horrible thing. And my job is to help them and

01:22:40.359 --> 01:22:42.819
get them and their family through it. I'm in.

01:22:43.119 --> 01:22:45.960
No more interviews needed for me. And so she

01:22:45.960 --> 01:22:46.819
started the next week.