The power of the NRA is that it is the laser
pointer and we are all the cats and it shines
a light in a direction and tells us where to
pounce. Welcome to episode 15. That is number
one, five of the Frugal Firearms podcast, the
podcast that's normally designed to help you
get the most for your shooting dollar. But today
is a completely different kind of show than you're
used to. And really something that I think is
important and you're going to get a lot out of.
Or if you don't, you'll regret not getting a
lot out of it. And here's the reason I say that.
We all have been through the experience of voting
not too long ago, and we saw what the results
are. Well, there are organizations out there
that really have a lot to do with whether your
rights as a firearms owner exist or fail to exist.
And a lot of this goes to their ability to not
only bring court cases that they win if they're
sufficiently funded, but also to lobby effectively
as well. And many of you are probably NRA members.
Many of you also might be members of the Second
Amendment Foundation or Gun Owners of America
or other organizations that are similar. Firearms
Policy Coalition comes to mind. All these are
valid organizations and they all deserve support.
But the one with the big inertia over time and
the one with probably the most lobbying power
of all is the National Rifle Association. Now,
of course, there is a history with the NRA that
some people find a bit unsavory. And I'll just
say it. Conservatives tend to be pretty... black
and white about their morals. And if you're wrong
on one issue, whether it be abortion, whether
it be taxes, whether it be school choice, whether
it be anything else, conservatives tend to throw
that organization or person off the train and
want nothing to do with them anymore. And I've
seen this happen with the NRA, that they've had
a few missteps over time and in so doing have
probably lost a lot of momentum. Today, we're
bringing on guests to talk about why you, as
an NRA member, if you're not one, become one,
because you don't have a seat at the table of
power if you're not a member and you don't vote.
But the voting is also important. The voting
means that you get to pick the direction of the
NRA, or at least participate in that, and failure
to do so will affect you in the future, because
frugal firearms or not, If you have a case of
no firearms, well, the frugal argument kind of
goes out the window, doesn't it? So, Ken, my
co -host, is going to say hi, and then I'm going
to bring on a voice from the past. Ken, say hello
to our listeners today. Hello, listeners. I appreciate
you guys dialing in. I get to talk about the
NRA and organization. I've been a member of for
well over 40 years, even as an endowment member,
as well as others in my family. And my father
before me was a member probably starting back
in the 1930s or 40s. Yeah, I'm very much interested
in this subject. And now we're going to bring
on almost kind of a co -host. He's like a guest
and a co -host at the same time. Marcus Kahn
from... modern Spartan systems. You have heard
Marcus in the past talk about his products. Particularly
interesting to the firearms community is accuracy
oil, carbon destroyer, and other products. You've
heard me pontificate about TVT Green. I recently
sent him a bunch of data that proves the efficacy
of that product. Honestly, if you're serious
about protection of anything that has friction
in it, and you're not using modern Spartan systems
products, Well, you're using the wrong product.
So, Marcus, why don't you take the floor and
introduce our guest tonight? Well, Greg, I really
appreciate that. And you said everything really
properly and right about people need to get involved.
And if you're an NRA person and I get about kind
of being black and white, I'm a little I'm like
that, too. Like, you know, I watch people and
see what they decide, what they do. And you got
to give a little bit of leeway. But I'm a little
more. cut and dry. So anyhow, I am very good
friends and a business partner with a guy named
Charlie Hilton. And Charlie is one of the three
people that was really in charge of taking the
NRA from the crappy course that was on. I'm more
blunt, sorry, but well, I'm not sorry. It's more,
they were going on a really bad course and doing
things that were not good. They were taking them
off mission. And a lot of people were getting
discouraged. Because they would hear things and
maybe didn't have the full story. I kind of learned
the full story from Charlie. And then he told
me that they took it over. They had kind of like
a good guy coup. And the tentacles of the cabal,
the guys who were really bringing the organization
down, were getting routed out. They get routed
out with votes. And so people got to get educated.
When he explained everything to me, In kind of
those good guy, bad guy terms, like, okay, the
NRA is critical to the Second Amendment. The
Second Amendment is critical to protecting the
First Amendment and our country. And if anybody's
got eyes to see, this is not just about hunting
and self -defense and those topics. It's about
protecting our country from the internal and
external forces that would love to bring us down.
And they're in spades all over. Thank God for...
President Trump and his team that is rooting
out the deep state and the corruption. Boy, we're
finding a lot of it. But from the ground up,
it's got to be organizations like the NRA that
is a prominent organization and prominent voice
for protecting that. So now they are back on
track, but there are still guys in there that
need to get rooted out. And so there's another
election that's going on now. And people that
are members and are eligible to vote need to
get off their duffs and get active, get educated
and vote. And what I learned, too, which is very
kind of surprising, is because we've been doing
a bunch of these podcasts and shows to educate
people, is that people that I think would know
about it, they didn't. They're like, oh, my gosh,
we didn't know that. Thank you for letting us
know. Now we're going to get involved. So this
is kind of an education wake up. call for people
and to get into action and start educating other
people. Share this out. But anyhow, Charlie introduced
me to Amanda. He said, Amanda is great. She is
so cool. Her name is Suffolk. That is her last
name. And she is a national syndicated radio
host, a two -way person. She's an engineer. So
she's like really smart. And anyhow, she can
articulate what's really going on behind the
scenes. Now she's nicer than I am, but. But she's
going to articulate what's going on so people
know what to do and why they're doing it and
how important this is for our country. So, Amanda,
tell everybody what they need to hear. OK, well,
thanks, Marcus, for that. Man, he makes me sound
smart anyhow. And so, hey, Sir Craig, Ken, Marcus,
thanks for having me on. I really, really appreciate
it. So let's go into a little bit of the backstory
of this. We all know that people have been watching
the NRA, and they're not happy. And they've not
been happy for a while. And so you saw people
say, not one more dime till Wayne is gone. And
those types of sentiments. Well, I too watched
some of that happening. kind of moved and shifted
careers, I wanted to be on the board of directors
because I'm from a three -generation family of
NRA members. And the NRAs existed for 154 years,
and I didn't want it to go away on my watch.
So, Craig, Ken, are you guys aware that New York
was using lawfare against the NRA? Oh, yeah.
With Letitia James? Yeah. Absolutely. So that
is actually a big piece of it also, is that starting
in about 2018, they came after the NRA. Letitia
James ran for office saying that she was going
to defund the NRA, was going to shut it down.
Well, 501c3 and not -for -profit, one of the
things that happens with those is that you don't
just get to shut it down and take your assets
and move someplace else. It's not like a business
where you can pick it up and move it. 501c3s
have to get either permission or they defund
them completely, keep their assets and shut them
down. And if they do, they have to donate their
assets to like -minded organizations. So when
you think about what the NRA is, it's a gun safety
organization, a gun education organization. And
then there's the second, the NRA ILA. But the
NRA itself, the heart of the NRA started with
education. which means that Everytown for Gun
Safety, Moms Demand Action, Bloomberg's groups,
those groups are all standing in line with their
hands out waiting for the NRA assets to be dropped
in their hands. So the NRA was fighting, literally
fighting for its very existence. And because
of that, it stopped marketing. It didn't have
any extra money. Services that it had provided
in the past, it didn't provide because it didn't
have staff. So the NRA really, really was having
a hard time. And while it had a hard time, there
are some of the no compromise groups that we
all know, and they're none of the ones that you
had mentioned earlier, Craig. The no compromise
groups use that as a fundraising opportunity
to kind of go after and chew on the NRA. So all
of this together is a recipe for members falling
apart, for people taking potshots. The left has
been taking potshots at the NRA forever. And
so now we ended up with even the right taking
potshots at it. So that's where we are right
now. There's been a group of people who have
diligently worked both inside the NRA and inside
the NRA board to wrestle control back to the
NRA in a way of looking at it to say, let's make
smart decisions, not stupid decisions. Let's
make... Let's look forward. Let's use technology.
There's so many different things that we're trying
to do. And we're standing on the precipice of
that. And that is why this election is truly
the most important election that the NRA has
faced in, I think, the 154 years. Maybe there
was a spot in the... 1970s with the neil knox
and the knox contingent but past that this this
is it and so there there has been there's a lot
of stuff happening but right now we're in the
middle the absolute middle of the election cycle
and if you are a voting member of the nra which
there are 2 .3 million of them if you're a voting
member of the nra last year of the 2 .3 million
77 000 voted So we could talk about that as a
problem, right? But I think in a lot of cases,
people don't vote because they don't want to
be an uninformed voter. They don't know any board
members. And so we decided this time that we're
going to run this election like it's an election,
like a real election, where people actually campaign
and people take a stand and say who they are
and what their background is and put themselves
out there. And we put together a web... website
and there's a slate card and there's a group
of people that are all like -minded and so we're
running it as a campaign because we really it's
it's critically important well let me ask you
this then amanda let's say that you get a nominal
increase in in the number of people voting because
of the awareness but is it kind of a de facto
thing like you have in congress or something
like that where 98 % of incumbents get returned.
And if that happens, then we're back to where
we were. And what would be the consequences of
that kind of a result? Okay, very good question.
There are some extremely well -known names and
popular names. But we have been, there's a group
called Elect a New NRA. And the website is electanewnra
.com. And that group has been running on a full
slate, saying, if you like me, then I'm asking
you to trust me and like all my friends. And
so we're seeing a lot of people who have never
voted before vote. And if that's the case, and
they're following the slates, and you can only
go by anecdotal evidence because you don't get
to see sort of like regular elections. You really
only get to see it when it. kicks off and at
the end. And you don't really get to see numbers
until all the polls close and then numbers start
to come in. So we don't get to see what, but
just in the conversations, the people that we're
talking to, the gun companies that have said,
we'll send it to everybody on our list. We will
share your information. Marty Daniels from Daniels
Defense did a several minute video. to say, look,
this is why I'm back involved with the NRA. I
believe in this group and I believe in what they're
doing. As of right now, we have been working
internally. And when I say this, understand the
structure of the NRA board. And so people say
that the NRA board is huge and we should have
a much smaller board. I'm going to say in my
mind that jury's still out on that. And the reason
why is that if you've got a corporate board and
it's for a large corporation, I mean, this is
a $300 million company. Think about it that way.
So if you've got a large corporation and maybe
you've got 15 or 20 board members, but you've
handpicked them by their skill sets and their
capabilities and the things they bring, this
is a popularity contest. So we get whoever we
get and we get and not to but you've seen the
popular names. We've gotten football players.
We've we've gotten actors. We've gotten, you
know, musicians. We've gotten congressmen. And,
you know, so you start to look at it. And so
you've got people who are in the trenches working
and then you've got people who are popular. They
know they know their name. Well, are you saying
that those people are not I mean, OK, all publicity
is good, too. To an extent, right? Are you saying
that those people who may have notoriety in other
fields are less qualified or less dedicated to
the mission, and they're only doing it because
it's another place to put their name and get
some visibility? Or are you saying that these
are really the wrong people anyway, no matter
what flavor of life they came from before? No,
it's more that... Those are people who have people
to do things. They don't do things. Good point.
Thank you. They have people for that. So we need
a working board. So there are 141 different things
that the NRA is involved in. There are 41 different
committees that the board needs to lead, steer,
direct, guide, and work on. There are some of
those people who have famous names. that have
never showed up to a board meeting. And it just
looks like publicity, right? You're just out
there doing that. So that's not really serving.
That's not grassroots. We need to be grassroots,
people that know what's going on and want to
get involved, not just out there for flashing
their name. They may be good people and all that,
but if they're not producing, you want producers.
I do not disagree with you at all, Marcus. So
really what we've been out there doing right
now is to look for business owners. We're looking
for people who are project managers. We're looking
for people who have trainers and that type of
a thing so that you have a full understanding.
They can help in the areas where the business
is suffering, if that makes sense. So you want
financial guys if you're talking about the budget.
You want marketing guys if you're talking about...
marketing and growth and change and shift you
want you do want politicians if you're talking
about the ila and legislative updates and those
kind of things so you want this mix yeah you
want technology people if you're going to be
out there doing social media or or needing the
new computer systems or whatever it might be
i'm a technology guy so i i understand where
you're going with this okay so and that's really
it so we want all of those kind of things but
but with an elected board the board the board's
bigger because of that. And so part of what you're
trying to do is when I got on the board, I got
on the board in 2023. And at that point, so I
had just retired from my job. I came into the
board fully intended to spend all my time, all
my effort and all my energy. And I made someone
angry the very first day. And so they pulled
me off all of my committees and I went and I
was like, what, what is this? Why am I, why am
I not on any committee? Why am I not involved
in anything? And they're like, well, some people
come on the board and they're all fluff and no
substance. Okay. So noted. And I'm like, okay,
I'm. I didn't punch him in the nose. I did not
punch anyone in the nose, but I, you know, I'm,
I've never been called fluffy in my life. I have
a manufacturing engineering degree. I've been
a plant manager. I've been an operations manager.
So I've run businesses. I've also been an NRA
trainer for 20 years. And I'm a nationally syndicated
radio host. So guess what? I probably know a
little bit about the Second Amendment. So I was
somewhat shocked. But what I found was that when
they pull you off your committees, the goal is
to shut you up and segregate you from the rest
of the board. They don't want you talking to
the rest of the board. So they won't bring you
in. So you're not there for committee meetings.
They bring you in. If the board meeting is on
a Saturday, they bring you in Friday evening
and they send you home on Sunday and they keep
you separated from everybody else. Kind of like
a censorship type stuff, huh? um it's it's segregation
more than censorship but it's just to because
you create a relationship with some of these
folks and then you can talk to them offline and
outside and about things and so so i personally
headed some of that off just by um just by paying
my own way and coming early and sitting through
the meetings anyhow because as a board member
i was welcome to them they just i just was on
my own dime But what I found was that there were
people inside the room that wanted change and
wanted to do stuff, but they too had been punished.
And so it took for a little bit for this group
of misfits to find each other. And then last
year, what they did was they pushed really hard.
And we found that we worked at it. We met together.
we whipped some votes and we found all of all
the misfits on the board and we started to be
strategic about what what things were being driven
what things were happening on the on the floor
and in the meetings and learning robert's rules
of order and learning how they were trying to
control you i mean it sounds crazy but it was
just it was that here's these new upstarts who
are getting involved in something that these
other people had been doing for years and years,
and who are we, and what do we think we're doing
with this? Well, we are now a voice, and we're
a big enough voice that we recently, at the last
group of meetings, the last election, we are
now just barely the majority. So if we have everybody
show up, if nobody has an airline problem or
a car problem or somebody broke a leg or whatever,
then we're good. If not, we're right at that
edge. So this election will take us from the
majority, just barely the majority, to a super
majority to give us the strength to be able to
push back and to say no, to stop things. Some
of you may have seen the members meeting. that
took place last year in Dallas. And if you haven't,
go see David Germani's video that is the NRA
members meeting. So it was on a Saturday. Is
that on YouTube? That's something that people
can find on YouTube? I was there, actually. I
was there physically. Okay. So I was the person
who asked the questions and called the vote.
If you were in the room, then you know exactly
where I'm going with this, right? Absolutely.
Yep. Yep. But, okay, so what happened was that
someone internal to the board had written a resolution
that says that the members demand that the NRA
move to Texas and sell the building. And so we're
board members and we're like, wait, wait, wait,
this shouldn't be a resolution. It shouldn't
come from the floor. It shouldn't happen. Where
is it? So we started asking, we started looking.
Come to find out that it was written by someone
who was working up through the chair. So one
of the officers of the NRA wrote it, handed it
to someone else to submit under their name so
that they could be under the cloak and cover.
And what they were going to do is that though
it's a resolution and it's not binding, they
would use it as a hammer to drive the board to
have to move because the members demand it. We're
a members -driven organization. And so they were
working behind the scenes to force us to move.
We caught them. And then they were running out
the clock and they were going to, it was just
this whole big plot and scheme. And at the end,
if you go see the video, what you'll see is that
at the end of this, the time was running out,
the clock was ticking, and they were seeing that
they were not going to win. And so they were
just going to let the clock run out and disband
the meeting. And so I got up and I called the
vote. And Charles Cotton, the then president,
was extremely unhappy. And he was like, well,
what did you say? And I'm like, well, you know,
we're talking about moving. Nobody talked to
Phil Schreier. Nobody talked to the board. Nobody's
used any of the skills and experiences of the
entire 76 members of the board to determine whether
it makes sense or not sense to move to Texas.
And you're going to push this. I call the vote
and I urge every member that's in this room to
vote no and allow the board to do the work that
the board needs to do. And we haven't done it.
Let me ask maybe a fundamental question here,
a couple things. One, what would be – let me
get both questions out first. What would be the
logic in moving from the Beltway, basically,
to Texas? I mean, just because it's friendlier
to guns is a lousy, lousy reason to remove yourself
physically from the point of influence. That
would be one part of the question. And the other
part of the question was, for the average listener,
Who is, you know, they pay their dues. Maybe
they just paid it once. They just bought an endowment,
you know, and they don't really give annually
or something like that. It may be a little bit
of a case of, you know, the person who goes to
church and puts a dollar in the basket on Sunday.
You know, they feel like they're doing their
part. And they feel exonerated based on that.
So how do you get that person energized about
this topic, about why this matters, and what
is the direct effect on their rights or their
ability to exercise and maintain those rights
if this election doesn't go the way it should
and manifested by things like, you know, people
trying to do power plays to move the organization
to Texas, which I think is silly, you know, just
because it's friendlier to guns is, again, a
lousy reason. So if you could kind of touch on
those points, because I think that a lot of the
listeners are going to be of the opinion of,
well, A, how do I pick who I'm supposed to pick?
And you already identified a website where perhaps
the candidates are already, the preferable candidates
are already listed. But really, what's the effect
on them in their day -to -day or year -to -year
life? Okay, so the question of why Texas? I'm
going to answer with a big fat, I don't really
understand. But I'm going to tell you that in
my opinion, there is such a drive to go to Texas
that it makes no sense. So there's some nefarious,
some something, right? We know that before he
left, Wayne LaPierre had bought a place in Texas.
We know that the current president at that time
was also from Texas. So there were those things.
But know that the building in Virginia is separate
from the 501c3 or where it is founded and where
it is centered paperwork -wise, which is New
York. So where the building is has no real determination.
So Texas makes no sense. And it made no financial
sense. And so they were saying, well, the condition
of the building is such that we have to sell
it and get out. And so one of the points I made
was that, okay, if the building is in that condition,
it's because we allowed it to be. That would
be like me taking an ax to my car. And then telling
my husband, oh, well, we need a new one because
this one's in bad condition. That's how you got
the new vehicle you got. Exactly, yes. You guys
are doing dirty things. There's reasons, right?
When you do stuff in the dark, that means you're
doing stuff you don't want people to find out
about. That means you're being greedy, selfish,
bad, evil, whatever it is. What they did speaks
on itself. It doesn't really make a lot of sense.
And so it doesn't make financial sense. It just
doesn't make logical sense. And your point about
it moving from, you know, from the Beltway to
Texas is another point that, you know, we are
the NRA and it is an education organization,
but it is also a political organization. And
it wields a pretty big hammer when it's healthy
and when it's working. And that I'm going to
answer now your second question. point. So we
want members to be able to say that they are
members of the NRA. Because members that are
members, members that are vested, members that
are invested, what they do is that they will
say, I am the NRA. And for every member that
we have, we also have their family. And so when
you talk to those people, they are NRA members
by default. They're not dues -paying members.
They're non -dues -paying members. But when you
ask, they're an NRA family. They are NRA voters.
They're NRA involvement. They're pro -Second
Amendment. And so for every member, there is
that. And when you really think about it, the
power of the NRA is not the NRA it's building
or the people that live and work in Fairfax,
Virginia. The power of the NRA is that it is
the laser pointer and we are all the cats and
it shines a light in a direction and tells us
where to pounce. It tells us where to vote. It
tells us who to call. It tells us where to look,
which rock that they just turned over that we
hadn't even noticed. That is the power of the
NRA and that they can invoke 6 million cats when
they point their laser pointer somewhere. Is
that the reason that I would spend money, you
know, if I have, Limited funds that I'm going
to give away to any organization in any given
year because, you know, I mean, remember, Frugal
Firearms podcast, this podcast is for people
who have other bills in life and maybe buying
guns isn't the be -all, end -all of their existence.
So even if I'm conceptually aligned with the
idea that I need to give money to organizations.
I mean, how does a person decide with lots of
different, I mean, particularly you mentioned,
I mean, maybe in a non -attributional way you
don't want to go there, but there are no compromise
groups out there that I did not list that, you
know, think that maybe the NRA is the centrist
of all evil because they're not also, you know,
have a history of no compromise. How does the
average person decide where to spend their money?
Well, I think a piece of that is, you know, I
just had an internet battle with somebody because
they're like, oh, the Hughes Amendment. NRA was
behind the Hughes Amendment. And I'm going to
say that was 1986, and I do not have the research
to be able to say why or what. But in a lot of
cases, you don't know what else is going on.
You don't know what else is on the table. And
the key, I think, to the NRA, and I... I am one
of these people that I tell people, here's how
I spend my money. I'm a life member of the NRA.
I'm also a life member of Second Amendment, SAF,
Second Amendment Foundation, who does most, when
you absolutely have to sue someone, SAF is the
group that does it. And I join and I'm involved
in my state organization. So that's the three
tier that I play. I also interact and do speaking
engagements and training stuff with folks from
the gun owners of America. And so I probably
talk to Eric Pratt two or three times a year
in different places that we are in the same place
talking about the same issues kind of work. The
thing I think that people need to know is that
the NRA has a seat at the table. And in a lot
of cases, the no compromise groups don't even
get to be in the room. Yep. It's exactly as I
mentioned up front. If you don't have a seat
at the table, you don't matter. Right. Period.
But the NRA is there at the table negotiating,
working with them, seeing what else is being
offered. And in some cases... The folks who roll
stuff out, and I'm not saying about the Hughes
men, because I don't know about that, but I do
know other ones where they're like, well, the
NRA agreed to this. Yeah, because there was 10
horrible things that were coming down the pike,
and they negotiated it down to one horrible thing.
And then people are like, well, the NRA backed
that. Yeah, and they blocked nine others. So
can we gain ground again? I'm from Ohio. Ohio
is my state. When they went to pass the concealed
carry in 2004, there were some no compromise
groups that said, well, the concealed carry bill
of 2004 was unacceptable because it had some
things that they didn't like that you had to
have when you got in your car, in a holster,
on your person, in plain sight. And that was
just crazy. So they wouldn't back it because
of that. Well, we wouldn't have had it. it's
either a yes or no, we wouldn't have had it.
And so instead, with compromise, we took that.
We, other people, not me, I was not intimately
involved in the negotiations, but the state of
Ohio accepted that. And then they modified it
again in 2007, 2008, 2011, 2013, and they fine
-tuned it. Because the first choice was a binary,
yes or no. The second one was, do we change this,
do we change that? It's a completely different
question. right you want to get what you can
then you can build off of that so it's important
i think that the public opinion of the nra too
because if members don't fully understand what's
going on the public isn't and it's important
that the public understands that nra good nra
protect second member protect first amendment
so we can speak you know so it's people that
the whole population needs to have a good positive
perspective and uh That yields a bigger hammer
in the court of public opinion. But that's probably
where the failure to market has come in. I mean,
we all understand. I'll point out, I'll remind
people that, you know, Frugal Firearms podcast
is not at its core a political podcast because
we think that self -defense, you know, all the
amendments are fundamental to you no matter what
party you belong to. However, that said, as I
mentioned, my observation over my years is that.
The conservative side of the equation tends to
be, you could be 99 % and you're 0%. The left,
to their credit, frankly, is better at understanding
if I have a 51 % candidate, I'll take the 51
% that he agrees with me and I'll ignore the
49 % because incrementally you will get to where
you want to be in the future. And conservatives,
I'm not saying that they're... I'm not trying
to make a judgment on people's morals and whether
or not they should be, you know, grounded in
all their in all their beliefs and that violating
any of those, you know, is it means that you've
given up on those morals. But I think the way
the political landscape is compromise is inherent.
I mean, look at President Trump. My uncle, by
the way, is liberal. and doesn't care for President
Trump, but he accurately described him as a transactional
president. And I'd never heard that term before.
He is there to do deals for the country instead
of for his business. But he is a dealmaker, and
inherent in those actions are compromise. But
I think, to be critical of the NRA, they have
not done a good job of getting to Marcus's point
in the public eye and saying, you know, look,
We accepted some evil in this bill in order to
avoid a greater evil. Oh, exactly. But did you
know that the Bruin decision, the Supreme Court
Bruin decision, do you know who funded that?
Well, I would imagine that it's probably a consortium
of a number of different organizations. And this
is an audio only podcast and viewers, Amanda
is shaking her head no. I was waiting for you
to finish because I didn't want to step on you
verbally, but no. The NRA funded it in its entirety,
but they were in the middle of this lawsuit with
Letitia James, and they never publicized any
of that. So when you really look at, you know,
the Second Amendment Foundation and the NRA together
were working on the Heller case, right? There's
a lot of groups that work together on a lot of
cases. But the NRA funded... New York State Rifle
and Pistol versus Bruin, which I firmly believe
that is the most important Second Amendment case
that was heard by the Supreme Court. Can you
explain it to people who don't know what that
is about? Okay, yeah, I will. So let's go backwards.
I mean, the first real gun bill that anybody
really thinks about is Heller. And Heller was
what came out of the Supreme Court in 2008. And
it was about a guy who was a security guard in
D .C. that used a gun to provide security for
the elected officials. And someone came by his
house and shot through the front of his house.
And he has a shotgun -style house. And they shot
through the front of his house and out the back
of his house. And Heller, Dick Heller, was not
allowed to take his gun home to protect his wife,
to protect his home, to protect himself and his
property. He was not. That was where that was.
It took 13 years to get through the courts. And
then the Heller decision came out. Then, you
know, then there was the McDonald case. And so
McDonald took it from D .C. to all the states
because he brought it. Otis McDonald brought
it to Chicago and Illinois and said that, you
know, having a gun, it's the start of self -defense
as a human right. And you have that ability.
Then this case, the Bruin case, says that these
gun laws that are being sprinkled all over the
United States. are unconstitutional if they were
not in place in history, text, or tradition in
1791. And so it has given us the ability that,
frankly, you're going to see in your lifetime
the peelback of the NFA from 1934. You're going
to see the peelback of the ATF from 1968. You're
going to see the Hughes Amendment and machine
guns and machine gun ownership. You're going
to see all of that stuff shift. There have been,
there's multiple cases right now, Michael Cargill
and the case with, I mean, bump stocks and reset
triggers and short -barreled rifles and all of
this type of stuff that's coming through the
courts. That is all happening because of the
Bruin decision. There are 1 ,600 court cases
that have worked their way through the courts
and been heard and decided on that cited Bruin
as part of their explanation, as part of their
defense. And that is from June of 2022 to about
two months ago, so the beginning of 2025. 1 ,600
cases. That's how important the Bruin case is.
But nobody knows that the NRA funded it, put
it together, and made it happen. I'm kind of
embarrassed that actually I didn't know that
it was mostly their funding or all their funding.
It's because we didn't tell you. It's not your
fault you didn't know. Our fault you didn't know.
I found out something today, too. Did you know,
and this I didn't know, and I have been talking
guns since 2010. I do two hours of gun talk every
week. I did not know that the person who put
the sunset, the 10 -year sunset in the Clinton
gun ban from 1994 was an NRA employee. I'd forgotten
all about that. I actually had a gun not show
up because of that ban. It was already on the
import. It made it as far as New Orleans and
never got to me. Never got there. And then got
turned around and sent back. I mean, we all lived
with the pre -ban, post -ban things. But the
fact that it sunset and rolled out says that
we're winning in the gun. We're winning in gun
laws and those type of things. We started peeling
back. In 1990, well, in 2004, when that sunset.
No, I was just gonna say, and so we're winning.
And it feels like we're not sometimes, because
all we're focused on is the bad stuff. But when
you look at how many states have constitutional
carry, you look at how many states are involved
in things to where they really are defining that
self -defense is a human right. It makes the
other states look bad, but it identifies that
they are the anomaly. See, we're both engineers,
Amanda. So you and I maybe think along the same
lines, because that was a perfect segue into
what I almost interrupted you on, which was this,
that, I mean, we're in California, you know,
Ken and I live in the San Diego area. And sometimes
it doesn't feel like we're getting very far.
But, you know, I can see you look at a map of
not just voting, but the way constitutional carry
has gone and things like that. And I think that
maybe people don't appreciate the fact that.
So affecting things on the national level does
over time affect things on the state level because
it's like, well, why is this one state an outlier?
Why are they doing things differently? And eventually
it does pay dividends in even states like California,
where I'm at, where it's slow rolled. I'll tell
you that. And we wish the progress was faster.
But once you get victories, I mean, it's essentially
I want to say it's like the Alamo situation where,
you know, you take one wall and then you take
the other walls. I mean, that's that's kind of
a dark. way to look at it. But in a sense, it
is that, that California is maybe holding out
against the tide of public opinion and eventually
will cave on the things that they do wrong. And
I think you're right. And so I think that, I
mean, you guys have firearms policy coalition
in the heart of your... I mean, they're from
California. And I'll tell all your listeners,
if you guys do X and you don't follow Firearms
Policy Coalition, they are hysterical. And they
are, I mean, they have a point and they drive
it home with a sledgehammer a lot. It is great
to watch them. The other part that's really great
is that currently, Firearms Policy Coalition,
the Second Amendment Foundation, the NRA, Gun
Owners of America, those groups are talking to
one another and working together in a way that
they haven't worked together in years, years
and years and years. And so now they're writing
amicus briefs. for one another they're supporting
they are talking to one another and this is a
critical aspect they are talking to one another
about a court case before it works its way through
the courts so that they can strategize on which
is the best case to present to drive a point
home and and not i mean we all watched the rahimi
case when he was so not a stellar citizen that
it was really hard to get behind him And so those
are the kind of cases where the groups working
together can potentially promote or put up a
better case that fulfills a niche that we need
to chip away at. It's about efficiency and not
keeping and repeating the same thing, you know,
taking the friction out of effectively the policies
you guys want to get in place to protect our
gun rights, to protect our country. So, as engineers,
we're making it efficient. We're thinking that
way. So, yeah, cooperation is much better. When
ego is getting in the way, then we've got problems.
Have you ever heard the difference? This sounds
a little esoteric, but I'll explain it. You know,
it's the rising tide lifts all boats argument,
right? Because that's exactly what you're talking
about, Amanda. I heard a psychological analysis
of the difference between cats and dogs. Now,
why does that relate? Cats see the world, apparently.
And the reason they tend to be somewhat individual
is they view the world overall as a limited pie.
The pie is not going to get bigger. Therefore,
I have to protect my own piece of pie. Dogs see
the world as an unlimited asset. And therefore,
bigger packs mean survival because the pie gets
bigger. The opportunity space grows. So I think
that this is maybe slightly analogous to that
where now the. heretofore competing organizations
that were begging for your money are now seeing
that everyone is helped as long as they work
together. And perhaps from the business side
of things, perhaps their funding lines are better
as well. Yeah. And I'm not familiar enough to
be able to say yes or no, but I think that that's
a very logical thing. And I think here's one
of the analogies that I look at is to the outside
world, the Second Amendment. is a singular block
of people. They are, you know, they're all Second
Amendment people. And instead, I look at the
Second Amendment groups as the Olympic rings.
Somebody's the white ring, somebody else is the
yellow ring, somebody else is the blue ring.
And so they all touch in some manner. But in
some cases, whatever's happening over here in
this white ring, nobody over in the green ring
has ever interacted with them or knew them or
knows of them or anything. And so you can be
a Second Amendment person in your ring, but when
the outside world looks at you, they're looking
at the whole logo. And so part of what we need
to be doing is making sure that the different
colors work together, that they... cross over
and they talk to one another and they're welcoming
and they're, they're involved. And so that's,
that's a piece of it. I mean, I, I spend a lot
of time with, with a lot, with a lot of, I, I
say that I'm like Switzerland. I talk to a lot
of, a lot of the groups that I, I speak at their
events and, and different things for that reason.
I'm out and about and I'm talking to people and
I'm doing things. And especially now where we're
trying to get people to vote for this elected
new NRA. And people are like, well, why do I
vote for this person? Why don't I vote for that
person? I've heard this other person's name.
And it's like, well, in some cases you've heard
their name. They are famous for something, but
they're not necessarily the people that we need
right now. Well, the important thing on your
coalition that you've got, that website for you
make it easy for people. We've vetted everybody.
This is how we stand as a group. And so it really,
it's hard to evaluate that many people, but you've
got made it really easy. If you vote this group
in as a group, you're going to win. Well, what,
okay. What is winning? Look, what do I get as
an NRA member who didn't know about this website
before? What do I get for voting your way? So
it's really, it's really the, You get a stronger
NRA. You get an NRA that is going to go back
to some of the services that they had. You get
an NRA that's expanding their training and education.
You get an NRA that it matters what the NRA endorsement
is for the politicians. You get a strong and
healthy NRA that is the first line of defense
in the Second Amendment stuff. That's what you
get. And that's what we need is a strong and
healthy. nra so that being the case going back
to your your five rings analogy um just trying
to understand it myself and help the listeners
understand it let's say would one ring be hunters
and one ring be the tactical guys and one ring
be just the self -defense you know mom with you
know something that she carries in her purse
and because sometimes there's been i've seen
this myself antagonism over the years over well
i'm a duck hunter and i don't think anyone should
have you know a big magazine because you know
you don't need that and and therefore it creates
schisms within the organization is that what
you meant by these different factions because
it could be that Drawing these people together,
I mean, a lot of these people, I hate to say
it, are older and hard to manipulate in their
opinions. Well, and I don't want to manipulate
their opinions. I want to have an opportunity
to speak to them. And what I found was that it
started where I was looking at... at podcasters
and bloggers and writers and that type of a thing.
And when you start to look at them, there's a
group that travels in this circle and then there's
a group that travels in this circle. And I will
bet that you and most of your listeners have
never heard of my show, right? So it is an opportunity
for my ring to step over and touch yours, right?
I mean, in that kind of a thing. Because, I mean,
I have a friend who the only thing he listens
to is firearms podcasts. The only thing. And
he'll be like, oh, well, I heard this on this
show. I was like, I've never met that person.
I don't know that person. It doesn't mean that
they're not doing something. They're just not
in my circle. if you will. And so expanding our
horizons and expanding our circles, I just want
to plant that seed that people understand that
there are other people in the circle that the
outside world looks at us like we're all together.
And we're like, we don't even know those people.
We don't know what they're fighting for. We don't
know what they stand for. So the duck hunters
versus the tactical guys. How about the... All
of the women's gun groups, right? How many of
those have you interacted with? You know, and
how many of the duck hunters interacted with,
right? So it really is. But when you're talking
to the outside people, we're all gun owners.
And so part of this is just knowing that we,
what do you get is you get a strong NRA that
stands as the umbrella over all of those. Overarching,
overreaching. to give that defense and that support.
Like I said, there's 140, 141 different directions
that the NRA works. And so that covers the silhouette
shooters and the sports shooters and the firearms
trainers and the political junkies and all of
that kind of stuff. So that's what you get as
a strong NRA. I mean, it's about kind of communicating
the message so more people know. the broader
coalition and joining people together, right?
90 % of the problems people have is communication.
So getting the message out, communicating, uniting
people, right? The devil wants to divide us.
We want to unite us in the common missions. We
want to help other people do the things in the
gun industry that they like doing. Exactly. So
the thing is, is that if they are one of the
2 .3 million, NRA members who are voting members,
in February, their February magazine, they received
their ballot. And we're asking that they go to
find their ballot, go dig it out of the magazine
stack, and then go to the website electanewnra
.com and start reading the bios. You can click
on every little face and read their bios as to
who they are and what they are. But know that
we've worked with them, we've vetted them, we've
talked to them. And in some cases, they were
not nominated by the nominating committee. We
ran petitions and got wet signatures of life
members. So we had to go all over the United
States and find NRA members to sign to get these
people on the ballot. There was a lot of work
and effort went into this because of how critical
we think the strength of the NRA is. I think
I'm one of the people who opted out of receiving
a print magazine. Because I generally don't read
them, and I end up just recycling it, and I didn't
want to burden the organization with a cost that
is not going to be appreciated. Okay, but you
did get a magazine for the February edition.
Even if you elected not to get a magazine, in
February you got one, because it was actually
cheaper for them to mail you a magazine than
it was to mail you a first -class letter with
your ballot in it. I see. Well, that does make
sense because they're getting bulk rates and
things like that. Correct. It's part of just
the normal flow and things like that. Okay, let's
play devil's advocate. Someone threw their magazine
out. Okay. Didn't notice the ballot. I'm wondering,
Craig, was that you? I didn't say it was me,
Marcus. I did not say that. But let's just say
that happens. Is there a way to either vote online
or request a ballot? No, you have to – there
is a way. To request a ballot, you cannot vote
online. So it is that you will have to call the
NRA headquarters and ask for a new ballot, and
they will send them out. But the deadline for
the ballots is April. They have to have them
in at the sorting facility through the postal
system by April 6th, I believe it is. So we're
really talking about very little time. You've
got a month. Yeah. Well, how long do you think
the processing time is to get ballots out for
those, again, who might need one? I do not know,
but I'm going to tell you I am one of those people
who needs one because I, for some reason, my
address got changed. Oh, not because you threw
your ballot out, too. I did not throw my ballot
away. You knew that the election was coming,
so you wouldn't have done that. Well, what was
funny was I thought I didn't get my December
magazine. And I thought my husband threw it away.
So I didn't say anything, right? Then I didn't
get the January magazine and I was like, hmm.
And then when I didn't get the February magazine,
I'm like, I called and they said, oh, well, yeah,
this is your address. And I said, no, it wasn't.
It isn't. Marcus is going to say something now.
I know he's going to say something about this
is a conspiracy. They're after you. They're trying
to disenfranchise you. It's in my way, but I
just sent Amanda a starter kit so that she can
play around with our products and then tell everybody
in the planet about them. But it got somehow
messed up in the shipping address. So she's telling
the truth. The post office sent it back, too,
is what happened. And so in both cases, my post
office loves me. We'll just say. So anyway, OK,
do you have any closing remarks, things like
that? I mean, I do want you and by the way, this
is your opportunity to talk about, you know,
I'm talking about my podcast here. I've talked
about Marcus's exemplary products that any serious
person who's a gun owner or a car owner, frankly,
should be buying. What do you what would you
like to promote here as we get to the end of
the show? Well, I want to really encourage people
to, if you are not a member of the NRA, to consider
joining. And that if you are a member of the
NRA and you're a voting member, please, please
vote. And then I'd like to encourage everybody
to check out my podcast, to go to my website
or to look where podcasts are. And it's called
Eye on the Target Radio. And so the website is
Eye on the Target Radio 2. I am the only female.
nationally syndicated Second Amendment host in
the nation. Nice. And just for people, just so
they're paying attention here, I is E -Y -E and
not the letter I. Correct. Yeah. Okay. Marcus,
got any closing comments for us today? Yeah,
I think anyone that listened to this should understand
the scope of the problem. and getting everything
correct. We got good people willing to do the
work. They are working. It's hard. It's complicated.
And they're working. They put this together for
not just themselves, for us, for the whole country.
And the whole world is affected by our country,
right? We're going in the right direction. Thank
God for getting Trump where he's at. But I think
anybody that hears this should, you know, think
about it, understand it, and they should share
this podcast. to educate other people, even if
they're not gun people, just to what's going
on. But if they are gun people, for sure, share
it with them. And if they're NRA members, they
should absolutely encourage them to vote because
they probably don't know all this information
and it will make a difference and they will want
to get involved. And I will remind the listeners
of what Amanda said right at the front end of
the show, that the voting in the last election
was, you said, 77 ,000 out of how many million
people? 2 .3 million. So boil that down to a
percentage. And if you think your vote doesn't
count, then you take a look at how much, you
know, even a single vote matters when you're
talking about very small percentage returns.
And even if this turnout the vote effort doubles.
I mean, that would be fantastic. And statistically,
it probably won't happen. Even if you doubled
the amount of people voting, it's still a tiny
fraction of people making decisions on something
that you've invested in. And speaking of the
investment, Amanda, I did want to ask this question.
At what level would you, I mean, any level is
better than no level, but at what level would
you recommend people join at? And are there reasons
to go to higher levels? So, you know, here's
how I did it, because I am, I am a squeaker,
as my family calls me. So I am so frugal, I squeak.
So when I joined as a life member, I looked at
it and went, I can't see a time when I'm not
going to be a member. So I joined as a life member,
and I did it in a payment plan so that you just
pay money per month until it's paid off. And
so that was that was the way that I did it. And
then I worked my way through when I got a raise
at work, when I got a promotion at work, that
I would go and I would step up in a level with
the NRA. Because to me, for me personally, the
NRA, I am a one issue person, a one issue voter.
This is this is my issue. And it has been my
issue for for. 25 years, 30 years, you know,
just of that level. And so I would just creep
up on it because, you know, at the same time,
you've got a house and kids and a dog and a car
and, you know, all of that kind of stuff. And
so it just, you know, there are places and there
are things where you see people say, well, I'll
buy a $350 ticket for this or I'll buy something
for that. And I'm just like, I'm not. And so
I respect every dollar that every member shares
with us. And if there is a level, it's if you
can get to a life member, that helps us tremendously.
And then every level after that just shows confidence
and pride. and focus on how important the Second
Amendment is to you and your family and yourselves.
And I hope you listeners understand that the
reason that what she said about being a life
member or better is important is the fact that
that allows the NRA to legitimately claim their
representation. year over year and gives them
the lobbying power that they need. And I'll remind
people of something else I did before the other
election and before the November election. If
you do not vote, you do not have much of a right
to complain. Now, you can complain all you want
if things don't go the way you want. But if you
don't even participate in the process, then you've
sidelined yourself and you shouldn't feel bad
when you get results that you didn't want. Marcus,
Amanda, any parting shots? Get involved. Step
up, be men, be women, get involved. I think he
said it. Thank you for your time, Marcus. Thank
you for your time, Amanda. Well, listeners, that
was probably one of our more important shows.
Maybe not the most fun show you've listened to
that we've produced, but probably one of the
more critical ones. Because again, even though
we're all about having fun and owning the firearms
and all the associated accessories and doing
all the training that we want. There's a lot
of other countries that this topic just isn't
that relevant. We know that we have reach across
the globe in terms of listenership. But I think
a lot of these listeners are in places where
they can only imagine what it would be like to
have the freedoms that we have. So if you want
to preserve those freedoms. it does take some
investment on your part. And I don't necessarily
mean only financial. I mean the act of voting,
the act of selecting the right candidates. And
in this context, I mean, the November election
is over, but now we have the NRA election coming
up. And if you fail to participate in that, then
maybe you go back to the old NRA that. really,
you weren't proud of saying that I am the NRA.
Let's get it back to that point. It takes very
little effort on your part, and you'll be rewarded.
And by the way, future generations will be rewarded
for your effort as well. So I'd like to close
out by reminding you the website, frugalfirearmspodcast
.com, which has all the links to... Not only
our email, which is frugalfirearmspodcast at
gmail .com, but also all the shows that are posted.
Very important that you like. Very important
that you subscribe. And please, please, please
leave a review because that helps our show get
more traction and get more visibility to other
listeners who are really not familiar with what
we do here and why we do it. Looking forward
to our next guest, which is planned to be. CCW
Safe, the president of CCW Safe, should be joining
us to talk about another really critical topic.
And if you haven't given thought to carry insurance,
I'm putting quotes around the word insurance
because there's different ways that carry coverage,
so we say is comprised, then this is another
very big hole that you need to fill. Because
without that, you operate at significant risk
every time you carry a gun in public. So thanks
for listening. Good night. Standby. Dog squeaking
a toy. Did you guys hear that in the background?
I have a dog squeaking a toy in the background.
Okay. That's good. That means Zoom audio processing
is doing its job. Okay. I'll cut that out. That
part goes away too.