1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,240 Honestly, there's a great geek factor here. I mean this thing's fun. I mean looking I'm gonna post when I post it to our social 2 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:09,440 Media about this I'm gonna include one of those 3 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:37,400 Animations of how my gun is moving and a lot of people are gonna look at that and go man you suck 4 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:41,400 Welcome to episode 10 that's number 10 of the 5 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:49,400 Google firearms podcast the podcast designed to help you get the most out of your shooting dollar and increase your enjoyment 6 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:54,400 And your proficiency and today we're gonna be talking about a way to improve proficiency 7 00:00:55,400 --> 00:01:00,400 That you may not have considered in fact most people have not Ken. What are we gonna talk about today my friend? 8 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:03,400 We're gonna be talking about a product from Mantis 9 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:07,400 Which is basically going to help a person train 10 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:12,400 Not only at the range with live ambition, but also at home 11 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:17,400 And allow you to go through and practice a bunch of different things and tell you what you do well 12 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:22,400 What you do poorly what you need to improve upon and and it records that information 13 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:28,400 Which is what makes it a tremendous asset and did you say train at home? 14 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:33,400 I mean and do it in a safe manner. Did you I just hear you say that you did absolutely 15 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:37,400 It's that's one of the benefits of this it basically will capture 16 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:40,400 I think a third of a second or a quarter per second 17 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:48,400 Before you take a shot and it records probably thousands of data points during that during that quarter second or so of time 18 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:50,400 Telling you where you are on target 19 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:54,400 What's what's your motion before you start to pull the trigger? 20 00:01:54,400 --> 00:02:01,400 What's your motion of your hand as you pull in a trigger and what's the motion of the handgun as you have completed pulling the trigger? 21 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:05,400 And all of those things could tell you what you're doing well what you're doing poorly 22 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:11,400 And there are a bunch of training videos that that it's linked directly into the application on your smartphone 23 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:16,400 Tells you how to improve it's a tremendous tool and to that point 24 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:21,400 We're gonna bring on Jake Hollenbeck from Mantis who is a representative for the company 25 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:31,400 Covers the Kansas and Oklahoma areas but he is also on the national circuit because he articulates the benefits a lot better than Ken and I do 26 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:35,400 Now why did we want to have Mantis on the show and how long have we been pursuing Mantis? 27 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:41,400 I will tell you listeners it's been a very long time and when I give Jake the microphone 28 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:43,400 He's gonna go through with this a little bit with you 29 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:52,400 But I've been a believer in training as a value proposition as the core and the fundamental of responsible and enjoyable shooting 30 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:57,400 If we were to talk about any other sport golf bowling you name it 31 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:04,400 You can go out and have fun on the golf course you can have fun at the bowling alley and you might be terrible you might suck completely 32 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:11,400 But when it comes to firearms there's another element and if you're a CCW holder and you're carrying in society 33 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:21,400 Just going out and having fun with your gun all of a sudden becomes a level of responsibility because you can miss all day long at the range 34 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:32,400 But when you get out into society and there are people around and there's a threat and you have to deal with the threat and avoid all the other innocence out there 35 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:36,400 Now training takes on a different level of importance 36 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:41,400 So how do you do that? How do you train and keep things affordable? 37 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:48,400 Ken I think we were talking before the show started about ammunition costs and cost of trainers 38 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:54,400 Tell us a little bit about your experience in that regard and I'll add a little bit from my own experience as well 39 00:03:54,400 --> 00:04:00,400 Well from my perspective here sure I mean I've been shooting for well over 40 years 40 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:10,400 And I mean I remember when the price of a 22 long rifle was sub one penny you know and you could buy a box of 50 of them for nothing 41 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:19,400 You could buy an entire block of them for you know just less than $100 to get over 6,000 rounds you know it's just unbelievable 42 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:26,400 But everything has gone up in price and rather than just going out and plinking itself really you're trying to get more and more value 43 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:33,400 And that's something you learn with experience and a little bit of age that you want to make every shot count 44 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:40,400 And not only at the range when you're just generally speaking you know hitting a metal target or punching a hole in a piece of paper 45 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:45,400 But in the real world as Craig points out if you have a CCW you can still carry a weapons permit 46 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:53,400 You are responsible for every round that leaves your barrel of your handgun for example and where it goes 47 00:04:53,400 --> 00:05:00,400 And the best way to do that is to be really well trained and this product that we're going to be talking about here today 48 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:07,400 The Mantis is a phenomenal tool which will allow you to get some training and tell you what you do well what you do poorly 49 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:13,400 And to do it at basically a whole lot less than tons and tons of hours at a range 50 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:18,400 Although I still think you should go and put as many hours at a real range with real ammo as possible 51 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:21,400 This product can also be used there so with that in mind 52 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:25,400 Exactly right yeah you can use so what does Mantis do? 53 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:31,400 Mantis analyzes everything from the draw stroke through the shot through the aiming process through the trigger pull 54 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:35,400 And then back to the holster depending on what elements you want to understand 55 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:43,400 It does so in ways that are easy to interpret it contains a lot of features that are almost frankly too numerous to go through today 56 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:48,400 But it allows you to see graphically what you're doing right and what you're doing wrong 57 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:51,400 So how does this compare to live training with a live coach? 58 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:56,400 Well as much as there you might think that they're not comparable I think in a lot of ways there are 59 00:05:56,400 --> 00:06:03,400 And in fact in some ways the Mantis probably provides more information because if you're on a live range with a live trainer 60 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:10,400 And I'm not disparaging any of that I mean I personally paid to go to Taccom this year that was an expensive trip 61 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,400 So I definitely believe in live training 62 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:20,400 But when you consider that a range master or a trainer has to cover multiple students often at the same time 63 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:24,400 Is he going to notice small differences in your draw stroke? 64 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:29,400 Is he going to notice everything that's going on in terms of are you thumbing the gun too much? 65 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:32,400 Are you using too much or too little trigger finger? 66 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,400 Are you holding the gun too tight or too loose? 67 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:37,400 He might see those things 68 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:43,400 But the thing is this particular tool records faster I think than the human eye can basically grab it 69 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:44,400 Much faster 70 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:45,400 It really does 71 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:49,400 Yeah and with Jake you tell us a little bit about it from the technical perspective 72 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:55,400 You don't have to I'm an IT guy I like creating computer science you know been doing that for my whole life 73 00:06:55,400 --> 00:07:00,400 So I love the technique getting down into the weeds but feel free to do whatever level you want 74 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:08,400 Well so at a base level we like to just call it a force multiplier for anything you're going to do and apply to your training 75 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:14,400 Okay so Craig you were talking about how do we compare this to in-person training? 76 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:17,400 You know are they going to catch everything you're doing? 77 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:23,400 Really the best way to look at it as an additional tool to see things that A the naked eye can't see 78 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:28,400 And also to look at repetitive behaviors shot to shot to shot 79 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:33,400 You might have multiple failures in your fundamentals when it comes to shooting 80 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:40,400 And on one shot your instructor might see that and on the next shot he might see the other you know fundamental issue with whatever your grip 81 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:44,400 You know your grip your trigger press your stance whatever it is right 82 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:53,400 So the whole beauty of this thing is that it's constantly recording when you're linked up to the app what you're doing from shot to shot 83 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:56,400 And you can use it in whatever application you want just like you said Craig 84 00:07:56,400 --> 00:08:03,400 Am I analyzing my holster draw? You know it'll break it all the way down from grip to pull to punch out to squeeze 85 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:09,400 It's going to break all that down you can heat map the motion itself so it's not just running this as a timer 86 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:16,400 And you can use it as a shot timer but it'll also heat map it so it'll show you what is your pattern look like on your draw stroke 87 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:22,400 Are you scooping in towards your chest? Are you kind of chicken-winging on the way out? Are you flopping over like it's Magnum PI? 88 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:29,400 It's going to be able to show you all of these things and you'll be able to overlay it from shot to shot so you actually know what's happening all the time 89 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:37,400 Now another force multiplier on this deal is yeah you're doing your dry presses at home right this is where you want to push your fundamentals 90 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:47,400 That's the whole idea of training is to improve your fundamentals you can do this at home dry you can take it out to the range with you and do this with live ammunition as well 91 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:56,400 So it's constantly in whatever setting you're in on whatever platform you're shooting at any target you're shooting at and any distance you're shooting at 92 00:08:56,400 --> 00:09:02,400 It's recording all of this and it's giving you the feedback and it's tracking for you to go back and look and learn from it 93 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:12,400 And I want to add something to that it's not just the financial aspect of this which is you're not necessarily you can put tens of thousands of rounds on a Mantis 94 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:22,400 If you're doing a dry fire then obviously there's no additional cost I happen to be a very strong advocate and we have not got these guys on the pod yet but we will 95 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:33,400 Cool fire trainer I think that this is literally the perfect accompaniment to a cool fire trainer because then you're getting actual recoil in a safe environment in your house 96 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:47,400 And you're getting the feedback at the same time or you can use it live fire but I think the one of the things that is is not appreciated by people here is exactly what you said you can see the heat map and then you can look at 97 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:54,400 This is what I'm doing predominantly it'll give you a score and your score may be good or your score may be bad but then you can click on each shot 98 00:09:54,400 --> 00:10:09,400 And it will show you in video a tutorial of what you're doing wrong and then you can start recognizing those problems go back and do the drill again and by the way I'm looking at the app as I'm talking there are an awful lot of drills that are already built into this 99 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:21,400 So you know what let's let's reset here just for a moment Jake you know again how long sir has it been since we were trying to have this conversation and how did we get there 100 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:39,400 Oh in fact I'm gonna interrupt you I'm gonna tell you how we got here the way we got here was the fact that I actually use one of your competitors products and at the time but this is a number of years ago someone I met at the shot show and I thought that their product was well at the time better than yours 101 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:51,400 So I bought their product but the problem was they didn't evolve the product and not only did they fail to evolve the part they well they probably because they failed to evolve the product they failed to stay in business 102 00:10:51,400 --> 00:11:06,400 Some years later I came and looked at Mantis again and revisited it and I could not believe how much better the product was now the basic product is an accelerator a three dimensional accelerometer that communicates to an app that's not rocket science 103 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:32,400 The magic is what you put in the app and that's why I wanted to get you on the show so that was two shot shows ago I started talking to your reps then about a year ago you were identified to me and then last shot show I saw you or you were insanely busy running your booth with lots of people lined up to take a look at your products and test them out and but at that point you had just come out with I believe it's called the black beard. Is that correct. 104 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:47,400 So yes, yes, yes, essentially the black beard X which is our second evolution of the of the black beard itself and we were modeling basically the latest version of that and the prototypes that we got coming out later this year as well. 105 00:11:47,400 --> 00:12:02,400 And that got us finally talking and here we are August, a year or so after we virtually met actually recording the podcast and I will tell you listeners just to be ethical about this matches did send us a sample for us to review. 106 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:09,400 And, you know, why do I mention that because all it could be constricted that we're doing this because they sent to you, they sent us a sample. 107 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:33,400 Not at all the case, not at all the case it's not at all the case, I would have, I would have bought this anyway and will be buying another one anyway, as well as yes so there's there's absolutely you know nothing to do with getting free stuff here that is material in our opinion, and, you know, honestly, reputation matter and I'm not in Ken is not endorsing a product that we don't strongly believe in. 108 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:45,400 And so to add to that from from our end as well. We beg our customers our users our influencers to say hey, if you do not believe in what this is doing. Do not support it. 109 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:56,400 There's, there's been plenty of that out there online so absolutely. I think a lot of Mantis fans would also understand this they follow closely on the socials, seeing a lot of things that have happened in the past as well. 110 00:12:56,400 --> 00:13:03,400 We want to make sure that we are providing value to every shooter out there, so I can absolutely attest for you guys on that. 111 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:20,400 So understanding that that's kind of the fundamental of the company. Give us a little background on Mantis how how what was the inspiration, not just the technological aspects of it but but the inspiration for what the company is trying to deliver. 112 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:35,400 And I don't mean a product I mean in terms of capability, and then, and then a little bit about you how did you get involved in Mantis. Yeah, yes so Mantis was originally derived from three brothers who are all engineering graduates from BYU. 113 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:56,400 They saw a very large gap in the firearms owners training market and identified the need for positive remote training that wasn't a sort of exhausting video series or you needed to go to remote testing locations to qualify for things. 114 00:13:56,400 --> 00:14:06,400 And with their engineering brains, they knew that there would be a way to have technology connected to a phone app to provide you feedback would be the best way to go. 115 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:15,400 And just this last I believe it was May was the 10 year anniversary of our flagship product the Mantis X shooting performance sensor. 116 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:30,400 We're on the now, I believe it is the second or third generation version of that product and it is, you know, it is our, our fundamental product or key product that we started with is the sensor the extent that you guys are talking about. 117 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:58,400 I made my way into the scene, based on, I have a military background, a software background, and some customer service skills where I had previously worked in other software companies that I was able to reach out to Mantis coming up on two years ago and ask if there were any openings to be able to help out and, and as such have grown into the team and now do the Kansas and Oklahoma territories for sales and demos. 118 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:14,400 I work on the customer support technical support team. And I'm also on all of the, the big national shows. I think you called it the national circuit earlier with shot show and goals and all that, which I guess you're going to strike out on the road again here very soon with some more shows. 119 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:20,400 By the way, why don't you tell the listeners what shows you're going to in case they want to get a personal demo. 120 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:28,400 Oh yeah, absolutely. So, I'll be down at goals in Knoxville here. I think that's just in a couple weeks. 121 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:32,400 The gun owners America's leadership summit. 122 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:45,400 We do NRA every year. So if you're ever at the NRA annual meeting, I'll be there. Another large one we've got coming up is the Noggets the National Guard Association of United States that's out in Detroit this year. 123 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:59,400 And then we've got the Trigger con in Wichita, Kansas. That's a growing industry size show where last year was a good turnout this year, even more hype around it. So, you know, they've grown that into a larger venue, they've got a range day. 124 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:10,400 And then obviously a shot show and the great American outdoor show out in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. So, lots of opportunities to be able to come out and get your hands on one of these systems see what's happening. 125 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:22,400 You can't get to any of those shows and understandable. I mean, a lot of them being industry shows that, you know, may not have the credentials to get in. What's the company policy if you buy something and it just doesn't work out for you as returnable? 126 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:41,400 Yes. So, we are value centered. That's the whole point here. So, we offer a 45-day guarantee. If you get it out there, you've used it for a month, you're thinking this may not apply correctly or you're having any issues that you can't seem to work through, absolutely let us know. 127 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:56,400 We cover the entire purchase cost. So, we ship for free. So, the only thing we ask is if you're going to return it or exchange it, you'll have to ship it back to us. But absolutely refund everything, total cost tax, all of it. 128 00:16:56,400 --> 00:17:03,400 And is that how, now you mentioned that you reached out to Mantis looking for a position. Were you already a Mantis customer at the time? 129 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:19,400 I was, yes. So, I spent quite a bit of time on the socials. I watched quite a few, you know, YouTubers, Instagrammers, things like that. And I kept seeing Mantis coming up. So, I decided I would get my hands on one. And I did. 130 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:34,400 I started with the X3 and then just a couple months after that, knowing they were software heavy, they had really good values and goals, I decided that would be an ideal place to call a career and actually dig in for the long haul. And that's exactly where we're at. 131 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:52,400 Right. And in fact, I think that when I first was introduced to the product, I mean, there was such a buzz around, you know, this new type of product, except that there were other competitors in the space at the time, that there was a little bit of a fleshing out of, you know, what cream was going to rise to the top, essentially. 132 00:17:52,400 --> 00:18:06,400 And I think that it's that rigor that people put into the app, particularly that, you know, that made you guys maybe the only game in town. Are there other competitors right now in this space? Or are you alone? 133 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:27,400 Well, as far as the accelerometer and gyroscopic sensors are concerned, there really isn't anyone else out there right now, at least on a commercial level. There's some military things out there that are close to similar. But realistically, we are the lone players in that field specifically. 134 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:42,400 The thing about this particular item is that, yes, we're talking about use of it on a handgun, but, you know, I am, although I'm not an archer, I understand you can do it in archery. If you're an air rifle person, which there's actually those air rifles are getting so darn good. 135 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:56,400 I myself, I'm probably going to pick up one of those just for rat control or something like that up at my mountain place. So there are other places where I plan to be able to utilize this from a training perspective. 136 00:18:56,400 --> 00:19:02,400 And then I'd also like to talk to you about, you know, the training courses that I do for San Diego County gun owners. 137 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:19,400 Yeah, exactly. So Ken, I mean, do you want to enter into that now? I mean, you're a volunteer and that's all live range stuff. But then again, people are now, correct me if I'm wrong. People are paying a range fee. They're paying for ammunition there. And maybe a lot of these people, I don't know, haven't held a gun before. 138 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:32,400 A lot of them are true. I mean, we do something here in San Diego called shooting socials. And basically it's for people who want to learn how to fire a firearm and maybe have very little experience with it. 139 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:46,400 Might be the first time out on the range. We have mentors, which are people like myself show up. Usually there's about 18 to 20 of us. And we get assigned a one-on-one with an individual who may have zero to very little firearms experience. 140 00:19:46,400 --> 00:20:00,400 And we, it's typically speaking nine millimeter of some type, some flavor. Most people bring a Glock or a SIG or one of the various flavors. You bring out, I bring out my personal firearm or firearms, sometimes plural. 141 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:11,400 You fire at least 50 rounds and you have them for a course of about two to two and a half hours. And basically you want it to be a fun experience with them. 142 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:21,400 But it's one-on-one where a mentor like myself will get assigned a person who comes in and never fired. You get a, obviously you go through all the safety thing, you know, always point the gun in the safe direction. 143 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:36,400 Always assume it's loaded. You know, we do all of the, all of the safety aspects of it. And then to bounce with it, we start off loading one round of ammunition and having a person work on stance and so forth and just take the first shot. 144 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:51,400 And over the course of the next, usually almost two hours, we'll fire a total of 50 rounds, which is not a lot for shooters like us, but you're dealing with people who are recoil averse and who don't know necessarily what they're doing. 145 00:20:51,400 --> 00:21:20,400 I will be incorporating this Mantis product with that on one of my one or more of my firearms, just so I can sit there and go, okay, go ahead, take the shot. And yes, I'm going to see things with my eyes, but what I'm going to be able to do, and this will probably start next month or month after, I'm going to say, now let me show you what the computer, what the app on my smartphone showed you what to do, because it's going to snag that last, what is it, about a quarter second or so before you, the recoil goes up. 146 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:22,400 The recoil goes off. 147 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,400 And after too, it gets both. 148 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:39,400 Yeah, so it's a third of a second. And that's an average based off of, you know, ballistic calculators, shot timers, you know, where we've sourced all that information, and also customer given input, right, as we built out the algorithms in the software over the years to grow. 149 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:59,400 But yes, it can, it's a third of a second. And then on the app itself, when you were talking about being able to see what happened with the shot and how those things happen, that third of a second is slowed down and then broken into portions of what the muzzle was doing, leading up to the trigger press, what the muzzle was doing during the trigger press. 150 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:12,400 And then finally, what did your recoil pattern look like when the shot was fired, right, so you can actually see all three of those stages in a third of a second, and it's just slowed way down so you can actually trace that to see specifically what the muzzle was doing. 151 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:22,400 And that's why I say it's much faster than a human eye, even a trained individual, you know, who can look there and watch they might see one thing you're doing wrong or something else. 152 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:35,400 But, man, this is a fantastic tool for for telling showing people what they're basically doing and and I have recommended for quite a few people that I've been mentoring in this program. 153 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:43,400 I go, you need to go out and get this thing here, and I literally pull it up and I'll text them a picture of it or something else. 154 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:49,400 This is what you need to buy. And you need to take this thing home and then you can practice with it. 155 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:59,400 So I'm sorry, go ahead, Ken. No, that's basically it. I mean, it's a great tool. I've been highly recommended it for at least the last almost a year on it anyway. 156 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:09,400 So as a follow up to that, then, Jake, so what let's let's talk value for a second here. And by the way, I also want to get to the point about what your typical customer looks like. 157 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:18,400 So covering the covering the value proposition first, what kind of price range are we talking about? Either you can give me MSRP or street or if they happen to be the same. 158 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:24,400 Yeah, so we essentially have three three different levels here to be able to get in and start learning. 159 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:30,400 OK, so we've got the X two, which is a dry fire only unit for pistol and rifle. 160 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:35,400 Those start at ninety nine dollars. The next step up there for pistol and rifle is the X three. 161 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:39,400 And that does live fire analysis and dry fire analysis. 162 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:54,400 And then finally, our creme de la creme, the biggest package we offer is two hundred fifty dollars for the X ten elite. And that is the system that covers pistol, rifle, shotgun, archery, the holster draw analysis and the live recoil meter. 163 00:23:54,400 --> 00:24:06,400 And and that covers anything you want to put it on. So that is pistol, rifle, shotgun, archery, live fire, dry fire, any target, any distance, any any setup. 164 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:20,400 It's truly universal. So individual listeners have their own preferred calibers and rounds that they shoot and they can run the calculation in their own mind about how fast you're going to go through two hundred and fifty dollars in ammunition. 165 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:27,400 And remember that this thing, once the initial investment is done, this thing keeps going and going and going. 166 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:36,400 And you can put tens of thousands of rounds through this in a simulated fashion, actually learn what you're doing wrong, actually get better, actually be a safer shooter. 167 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:41,400 And honestly, there's a great geek factor here. I mean, this thing's fun. 168 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:49,400 I mean, looking I'm going to post when I post to our social media about this, I'm going to include one of those animations of how my gun is moving. 169 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,400 And a lot of people are going to look at that and go, man, you suck. 170 00:24:52,400 --> 00:25:02,400 But but but when when you look at the granularity of how sensitive it is and what it's feeding back, I mean, it's just helping me get better. 171 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:08,400 And I mean, two hundred and fifty dollars is honestly nothing. I have mine on a cool with a cool fire. 172 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:13,400 I mentioned that already. The cool fire trainer cost a lot more than this thing did. 173 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:24,400 And and by the way, Jake, I'm angry. Well, not with you, but maybe with Mantis, because the day before we decide to put this show out, you guys introduce a new product. 174 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:30,400 You know, actually, I just got the email yesterday. I mean, boy, you talk about bad timing. 175 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:37,400 Tell us about the is the Tor X or Tor X or the Tor X. 176 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:45,400 Yep. So it's a it's a collaboration with Steiner and Steiner already had the the mini tour. 177 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:48,400 So not a crap, not a crap company, by the way, Steiner. 178 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,400 Oh, not a company top of the line. 179 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:58,400 As soon as we heard about this collaboration, I was I was already hitting hitting the email being like, hey, so how hooked up are we here? 180 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,400 Can I get an NPS from these guys finally? Or what's happening here? 181 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:06,400 Because I think Steiner makes some of the finest optics equipment in the game. 182 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:19,400 They do. They do. Period. Yeah. But no. So the the Tor X, essentially, there was this idea of needing to integrate the Mantis X sensor technology into everyday carry items. 183 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:32,400 And this was really the first dream baby iteration of that idea was let's try it on Steiner's tour, which is probably the most reliable point of impact laser site out there. 184 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:44,400 And being able to put our Mantis X 10 sensor inside of that unit so that you get all of this availability readiness training in something you would everyday carry. 185 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:52,400 It's not super practical right now to have the X 10 mounted on the base of your magazine on your everyday carry, you know, things like that. 186 00:26:52,400 --> 00:27:01,400 But the whole point of the Tor X was to start pushing that boundary a little bit, giving people something that they can train with that you could carry every day. 187 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:07,400 And also, you know, just point of impact lasers in general, they're a great dry fire training aid to begin with as well. 188 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,400 You can see movements, you can see shake, you always know you're on target. 189 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:14,400 So that's not something you have to be concerned about when you're training with your Mantis X. 190 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:20,400 So they just kind of came together and in a great way. And we are really excited about that launch. 191 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:24,400 Is that product currently available or is it pre-production? 192 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:32,400 It is available. So it came out in limited units and I'm not entirely sure if we even have any in stock right now. 193 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:37,400 They launched yesterday with the Tor X and I believe we're already out. 194 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:42,400 But yes, as I noticed, yes. 195 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,400 But we expected that to go quickly. 196 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:54,400 And Steiner has already said once we're fully ramped up and ready to go, you know, inventory concerns are a thing of the past. 197 00:27:54,400 --> 00:28:05,400 So going back to the question about who your typical customer is, I mean, you could differentiate that too between this is what we think should be our typical customer. 198 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,400 And this is what is our typical customer, because they may not be the same thing. 199 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:14,400 Because, I mean, Ken articulated the idea that probably the people who benefit the most are maybe the newest shooters. 200 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,400 You know, if you tell them they're just getting it. 201 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:23,400 I mean, they may not have bought a gun yet and you're not tell them to put a $250 accessory on the gun. 202 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:25,400 That's going to be maybe a hard sell. 203 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:27,400 Even if it is the right thing to do. 204 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,400 So give us a little insight on that. 205 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:39,400 I mean, and for again, for our listeners who are value focused because that is the centrist of this program, you know, give them the sales pitch. 206 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:41,400 Why should they spend the money? 207 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:42,400 I've already done that. 208 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,400 But, you know, you do it. 209 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:47,400 Well, realistically, right. 210 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,400 The value is in the fact of the longevity. 211 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:50,400 Like you said, right. 212 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,400 We call it a force multiplier. 213 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:58,400 You can apply it to whatever you want to do, whatever your training is, live, dry, situational, whatever. 214 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,400 It's always going to be able to show you these things that are happening now. 215 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:06,400 Initially, our largest consumer base was new gun owners. 216 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:11,400 Right. We want people that wanted affordable training that they could have always around the clock. 217 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,400 And then as the software grew, so did our customer base. 218 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:26,400 That's when we started seeing experienced shooters, professional shooters, military and law enforcement who want to be able to at affordable level, stay honed in and continue to push the fundamentals and keep them sharp. 219 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:28,400 That's when we really started bringing them into the fold. 220 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:34,400 And then that customer base really started expanding quite a bit when we started doing other types of affiliations. 221 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:42,400 Right. So we've really jumped into NRA instructors, USCCA, card holding members, military and law enforcement. 222 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:46,400 Like I said, really just started pushing us out there further and further and further. 223 00:29:46,400 --> 00:30:03,400 And now I don't think you'd be able to realistically identify our largest customer base and what you could identify them as just because we have so many everyday folks out there wanting to use this product every day for dry fire and live fire training. 224 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:15,400 Is that then how you I mean, I'm going to go back to your previous competitor, your previous competitor used one guy as the judge of what you're doing right, what you're doing wrong. 225 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:24,400 And I imagine though that you have a lot of people providing or at least a pool of people providing inputs to this is what breaking your wrist looks like. 226 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:28,400 This is what using too much trigger finger looks like. 227 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:34,400 How do you integrate the expert inputs into the software? 228 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:41,400 Right. So essentially we started just matching data to very popular training techniques and methods. 229 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:48,400 Things that are already widely acceptable that people wanted to use for beginners and fundamental basics. 230 00:30:48,400 --> 00:31:01,400 Right. So when we talk about why we've grown and why we've continued to see success and continued to grow is is all based off of the work that we put into the software, which by the way is free. 231 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:06,400 We don't charge anything for any of our apps ever. There's no sign up fees. There's no monthlies. 232 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:14,400 So when we're talking value, that that's another large addition is we're not a subscriber based like some of our current competitors are. 233 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:31,400 So as we get the shooting data back and input from professionals and trainers alike out there in the real world who see these techniques and issues, then we're able to match all of that movement data, all that vibration data into the highest likelihood of what is happening shot to shot. 234 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:41,400 So it's all based around the kind of the age old pie chart of if you're seeing the muzzle go right during the shot, you might be healing or you might be using too much trigger finger. 235 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:48,400 Or if you're shooting high and left, then maybe you're over gripping or you're using too little trigger finger, things like that. 236 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:54,400 And we just continue to mature those algorithms and into the software. 237 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:59,400 And that's how we become even more precise and more accurate with our with our feedback. 238 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:03,400 And you've teamed now with Steiner on the Tor product. 239 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:11,400 I seem to recall that you also have worked on laser Academy and incorporating that product as well. 240 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:16,400 You now also have the Blackbeard product, which is rifle centric. 241 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:22,400 It's essentially an X 10 in a magazine, I believe format for the AR platform. 242 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:30,400 Exactly. Are there any other types of products or opportunities that you're looking forward to integrate with? 243 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:37,400 Oh, yeah. Yes. So probably our number one request right now, Craig, is we love our Blackbeard. 244 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:39,400 How do I get this in my pistol? Right. 245 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:43,400 You use cool fire trainer because you wanted that capability of rapid restrike. 246 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:47,400 You didn't want to have to constantly recock your pistol while you're doing dry fire training. 247 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:52,400 And you may not have a double action pistol to train with or it may not be your everyday carry, whatever the case is. 248 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:58,400 So our number one request right now is how do we get a Blackbeard in our handguns? 249 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:03,400 So that is a majority of our development right now is figuring that out. 250 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:08,400 And then secondly is, hey, we love our Blackbeard and the feedback it's giving us. 251 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,400 How do I get it in something that isn't in AR 15? 252 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:18,400 So we we currently have the AR 15 and the MCX out right now available. 253 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:22,400 It's the bulk carrier group and the magazine that runs those systems. 254 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:30,400 And then here by the end of the year, we're looking to launch the AR 10, the Scar Light, the Scar Heavy, the AK 47. 255 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:32,400 And we'll have an MP5 version out here shortly as well. 256 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:36,400 So that is where all of our development is right now. 257 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,400 And we're really excited for everyone to get their hands on those. 258 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,400 You made me laugh with the AK comments. 259 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:49,400 It's like, I mean, there's so many memes out there about AKs and like, why would you bother trying to be accurate? 260 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,400 Never mind. I don't want to offend our AK. 261 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:57,400 They run in all circumstances. That's the thing you can say about an AK. 262 00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:01,400 You can open it up, take a handful of dirt, throw it inside it, close it up and it'll work. 263 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:03,400 It's amazing. In that regard, it's amazing. 264 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:10,400 It is. And no disrespect to Mikhail Klyushnikov and none whatsoever. 265 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:12,400 How often do you update the software? 266 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:22,400 Yeah. So right now, our core focus is essentially on the MantisX pistol rifle app and the Laser Academy. 267 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:26,400 Those get updates monthly. And then our secondary applications. 268 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,400 And I shouldn't even say secondary because that's not fair. 269 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:35,400 But shotgun and archery, they probably get quarterly treatment, if not a little bit sooner than that. 270 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:41,400 So really, you're looking at constant software updates and again, always free, always ready. 271 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,400 And all of that is constantly pushed. 272 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:52,400 You know, new drills, new courses to take, better, more detailed feedback and reading of the data. 273 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:54,400 We've got more and more algorithms. 274 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,400 There are shot detection modes for however you're shooting. 275 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,400 When I say you can put it on anything or shoot however you want. 276 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:04,400 The CoolFire Trainer, we've got a CO2 mode to detect CO2 better. 277 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:11,400 Dry Fire Mag or SIRT pistols, we've got algorithms on the app to better detect on those. 278 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:15,400 So really, we're constantly pushing all the data that we get back. 279 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,400 Yeah. And let me give, I'm just going to read down a list here. 280 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:23,400 This is a long list, but bear with me. You can do holster draw analysis. 281 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:33,400 It has a recoil meter, it has drills for open training, a shot timer, a part timer, a shoot or no shoot scenario, 282 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:40,400 the Mantis X benchmark series, a 20 second benchmark, a timed benchmark, an endurance drill, 283 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:48,400 a compressed surprised break drill that has to do with, it's a beeper and it's going to tell you when to take the shot, 284 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:52,400 but it's going to vary the amount of time it tells you to take the shot and you stay on target. 285 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,400 And it shows you your reaction time. 286 00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:59,400 Primary hand only, support hand only, reload drills. 287 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:03,400 Now reload, that must have been really hard to code. Wasn't that, Jake? 288 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:10,400 I mean, to get a reload drill put into a device that can only measure three dimensional motion in time. 289 00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:16,400 Yeah, it has two sensors in it, right? It's gyroscopic and the Accelerometer can also detect vibration. 290 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:24,400 So the reload drills, as an example, took tons of data of having it mounted on different pistols, et cetera, 291 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:28,400 to look for a range of specific vibrations. 292 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:33,400 So, you know, while we're talking about that, the way the technology was set up, 293 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:38,400 if you have your X10 running right now on your pistol and you've got it set for dry fire mode, 294 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:43,400 as soon as you slap a mag in or rack the slide, it's not going to count that as a shot 295 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:47,400 because it's not within the specific range that a trigger press should be. 296 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:51,400 But as soon as you level up and take a shot, the algorithms know immediately, 297 00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:56,400 oh, that was a shot registered because it was in this specific threshold of motion and vibration. 298 00:36:56,400 --> 00:37:03,400 So if you can kind of picture that process, multiply it across all the drills you just read off, 299 00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:11,400 that would give you an idea of how much software work and algorithm work has gone into coding on this application 300 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:13,400 to really read all of this raw data. 301 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:22,400 It's something along the lines of like 250 data points a second is what the sensor is sending back to the app for the app to read. 302 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:27,400 And I didn't finish the list. I just stopped. You know, cadence drills. 303 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:30,400 I mean, here's another one. Hostage rescue? 304 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:32,400 Yes. That was so hard. 305 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:38,400 How did you code? I haven't even tried this one yet. You coded hostage rescue. 306 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:42,400 So, I mean, and remember, guys, this isn't a video game. 307 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:50,400 You know, you're using your actual gun in a safe environment and you're using an app that is, again, you know, 308 00:37:50,400 --> 00:38:00,400 as Jake has made very clear, is aware of motion and time and putting those things together in order to come up with answers. 309 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:07,400 The courses in here include just the introductory course, basic and advanced marksmanship, elite marksmanship, 310 00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:13,400 basic combat, advanced combat and elite combat and double action diligence. 311 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:18,400 So tell us about I want to hear about the hostage rescue thing and the double action diligence. 312 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:28,400 OK, so the hostage rescue, first of all, is a it's a drill that's pushing your time and pushing your ultimate stability. 313 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:36,400 Right. When we think about rescue or rescuing a hostage or taking that key shot in a high tense moment, 314 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:42,400 it shortens the time frame on you and it really tightens in on the amount of time you can get out of your holster, 315 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:48,400 get on target and press without too much movement to what would, you know, be too risky. 316 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:57,400 Right. So to really answer you, the the owners, the coders, everyone in engineering has a great sense of humor. 317 00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:08,400 And kind of every year for April Fool's Day, we release a fun new drill or course or, you know, something else as an additive. 318 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:14,400 So double action diligence. Dad was actually a release of Father's Day this year. 319 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:22,400 That was, you know, we always talk about older dads and grandpas that might be running revolvers or double action pistols 320 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:36,400 because that's, you know, the pinnacle of pistol design. And so that's kind of where the whole the whole idea for that came from was let's let's make something for the double action guys out there and release it on Father's Day, maybe acronym dad. 321 00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:43,400 Some of the courses you can't see right now, Craig, are we've got one called the Gecko 45. 322 00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:48,400 So once you kind of complete all these courses, first of all, we will send you a patch for free saying hey, congrats. 323 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:54,400 Good job on the completion. We'll send you a free Velcro patch you can put on the patch wall or your range bag show off to your friends. 324 00:39:54,400 --> 00:40:00,400 But as you complete those more courses become available based on your progress through the courses. 325 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:09,400 So I did not know that. So Big Brother or at least Mantis is watching your progress. 326 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:14,400 We want to push it right. We let the company is is training a million shooters a year. 327 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:18,400 And that's what we want to do is push people to drink. That was my next boy. 328 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:21,400 Are we simpatico here or what? I was going to ask you about that. 329 00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:26,400 Where where what was the genesis of that? Because that's a very aggressive goal. 330 00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:41,400 That's a very aggressive goal. Yeah. Was this one of these Friday nights sit around and imagine our next drill and, you know, also imagine what our what our mission and our vision statement is that we're going to train a million people a year. 331 00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:46,400 Well, it it was it was a lofty goal, but you want big goals to accomplish big things. Right. 332 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:55,400 And and when you go back to the founding or the idea behind the sensor in the first place, it was it was looking at raw statistics of what's available right now. 333 00:40:55,400 --> 00:41:03,400 And and for all the gun owners that are out there, roughly 60 percent of them have some type of formal training. 334 00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:21,400 And of that formal training, a majority of it is in proper handling and proper storage. You know, there's there's very little going on or a small percentage of gun owners out there who who have some real use case scenario training or tactical training or something along the lines. 335 00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:38,400 So so really, the whole idea was to say, hey, how do we get training readily available for folks at a at a fair cost around the clock? And that was really a big part of it was, well, if this is the real deal and it's not a gimmick, then we should be able to do a million people a year. 336 00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:42,400 So that's that's kind of really what happened there. Yeah, it's it's an impressive goal. 337 00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:56,400 And I like what you said, though, about, you know, you have to aim high to to achieve high. In fact, right. You know, even if you achieve 75 percent of your goal, that's that's still tremendous when you when you set your goals high enough. 338 00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:58,400 What kind of testimonials do you have? 339 00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:15,400 Or I mean, I think that you guys support competitive shooting teams and things like that. But for those out there who may not be in the set of believers, do you have testimonials from people who have, you know, turned I wouldn't say darkness in today? 340 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:23,400 You know, maybe not. Or maybe that good or at least refine things and learn stuff they would have otherwise never learned. 341 00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:38,400 Yeah. So so really, I think one of our one of our the biggest things that speaks about our feedback in our training is is a more recent case, but really shows on a grand scale what it's capable of. 342 00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:57,400 We have recently just gotten back just around January, actually, during Shot Show, the Marine Corps had been testing out the Blackbeard X for about a year. And as of right now, any recruit going through Parris Island is actually using the Blackbeard X on Grass Week and the data that they have provided us. 343 00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:10,400 First of all, we all know the Marine Corps doesn't really struggle producing shooters, right? That's that's actually what they're known for. But they would typically have 75 to 80 percent qualification first time around. 344 00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:22,400 So they do a good job with their instruction. They have what's called Grass Week. So you all go out, lay in the grass for a week, dry fire your rifles before you even get to go to the range and try and qualify or zero. 345 00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:33,400 We have replaced Grass Week with the Blackbeard X and every pool of trainees using Blackbeard X in Grass Week that goes to live fire has qualified. 346 00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:42,400 So we have taken the Marine Corps from 85 percent qualification at the high end to 100 percent qualification and have cut down training on that by two days. 347 00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:56,400 So we're getting recruits through dry week, two days faster and having all of them qualify as they go through. Very few moves are made in this company without kind of the not blessing, but certainly consultation of the whole. 348 00:43:56,400 --> 00:44:02,400 They really believe in their employees. They hire people that want input from the top to the bottom. 349 00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:15,400 So so really there's nothing out there right now that is really kind of bubbling or churning other than we need more. We know we need more available models and we want to continue to push that software and grow that. 350 00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:23,400 And when you start thinking about as an engineer, I keep going back to the motion time analysis because that's where my mind is at. 351 00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:40,400 How many other areas could this not shooting? How many other areas could this be useful in? I mean, I could probably given, you know, a beer in two hours give you a pretty good long list of things that this might be applicable to. 352 00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:47,400 Yeah, maybe your markets that are just I mean, you're busy enough. I get it. You're busy enough developing and perfecting the product you've got. 353 00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:50,400 But there's probably a lot more opportunity space out there. 354 00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:58,400 We tend to think a ton and when we're looking at, you know, growth, essentially the sensors are they're looking at you, right? 355 00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:04,400 The the X 10 doesn't care what you're shooting at or how far away it is. So, you know, another version of this might be OK. 356 00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:10,400 Well, we've got all of your fundamentals and everything you're doing to send that round correctly. But where's that round landing? 357 00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:14,400 Right. So for that, you would need something like the laser academy or something along those lines. 358 00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:20,400 So so there's growth there as far as the technology is concerned and things we want to see moving forward. 359 00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:26,400 There's some kind of standard electronics consumer things that we're really trying to push. 360 00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:33,400 You know, we'd rather be USBC. We'd rather be waterproof, maybe a little bit more durable aluminum shell, things like that. Right. 361 00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:38,400 So we're looking into those. But right now we're young. We're young in the industry. 362 00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:48,400 Tenure sounds like a long time for a lot of consumers, but it's not it's not when you're, you know, not when you're in here with Winchester and Ruger and Remington and HK. 363 00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:52,400 I mean, all these companies have been around for, you know, decades and decades, centuries for some. 364 00:45:52,400 --> 00:46:00,400 So right. And the electronics continue to get bigger or bigger, they get smaller, better, useless power. 365 00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:03,400 And yeah, I get it. Yep. Exactly. 366 00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:08,400 What are the funny stories or anecdotes or things like that you'd like to share? 367 00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:15,400 So one I do like to bring up is our CEO, Austin Algier. 368 00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:27,400 He is one of the three brothers and his profile picture on our chat board is the very first inception of what the Mantis X was going to be. 369 00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:36,400 And it's actually just him shooting a Glock with a hacked Android cell phone rubber banded to his Glock. 370 00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:49,400 Like, that's really where this came from, was they're like, hold on, we could just hack this Android and basically rubber band and zip tie it to a pistol and see if there's any way possible if this is, you know, if this is attainable, if it's something we can do. 371 00:46:49,400 --> 00:47:00,400 So I always thought it was hilarious because, you know, as a new guy, when I came to the company and saw it, I was like, dude, is that is that a phone rubber banded to a gun? What's happening here? 372 00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:06,400 So being able to hear that, that that's where it came from. I was like, wow, that's actually really cool. I love that. 373 00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:15,400 That is great. I mean, you look at like when John Moses Browning came up with the machine gun, you know, or his version of it. 374 00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:27,400 And and he basically took a Winchester lever action and he put a he put a piece of metal out in front of the barrel and the spring to actuate the lever back and forth. 375 00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:33,400 And people laughed that he took it and he showed it to it. And he got the thing to fire quote automatic as an automatic fire. 376 00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:47,400 And that's when the 18 was 1896 Colt potato digger came out, which was this gun that cocked back and forth. And, you know, it was basically digging a hole because that was based on the lever action Winchester. 377 00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:53,400 So the fully automatic lever gun that the lever gun. Yeah, that's awesome. 378 00:47:53,400 --> 00:48:05,400 Reading about the signer looks great. Do you have anything that has a light and a laser built in so it'll have your product built with a light and a laser. So, Tim, that is that is like what everyone at work wanted. 379 00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:13,400 Right. We're like, can we put this in like a stream light or a sure fire or an absolutely no disrespect to Steiner. 380 00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:27,400 Right. Because obviously it's Steiner. But I think really the whole idea here was to prove concept that a we could get all the sensor to function the same way in a hardened piece of equipment that is designed for everyday use. 381 00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:43,400 And B, and this is me just being honest about what I think I don't know if this is factual from Steiner anything but the point and click laser site systems are really, I mean, it's not something that is desired or used regularly anymore. 382 00:48:43,400 --> 00:49:03,400 So I think this was maybe another way for signer to help generate some excitement around the tour and be able to prove that we can put our sensors in everyday equipment items to actually start adding to the sort of everyday carry had better data tracking on what you're doing to start looking for more outlets in the future. 383 00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:16,400 So I love my tour X. I got mine about a month ago. I've been using the absolute crap out of it. And I use it more in my X 10 just because, you know, I like being able to visually confirm. 384 00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:23,400 Hey, I'm directly on. I don't need to worry about site picture as much things like that. And I can start pushing myself on fundamentals more. 385 00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:35,400 And you can really correlate all of kind of like the old school. There's some old school training tricks out there of constant on lasers where, you know, if you're jerking, you know, if you're pushing, you know, if you're pulling, I don't have to look at the app to see those things. 386 00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:46,400 Now, I can see that shot to shot without having to go back to the app every time and continue to refine the small parts of what I'm doing so I can focus better on things like my holster draw. 387 00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:57,400 Or if I'm doing strong hand or both hands, things like that to start pushing my training that next step instead of just focusing on really the super basic fundamentals. 388 00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:09,400 So it does a little bit of all of that. And and I think since we're seeing success with the tour X right out of the gate right now, hopefully we'll start seeing more integration options in the future with more than, you know, just Steiner. 389 00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:26,400 But we want to continue to prove that this is a reliable concept and something that you can add to everyday items. And I think that you touched on something that reminded me of why I put the cool fire trainer on, which is, you know, I'm looking for the most realistic scenario I can. 390 00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:40,400 And having the gun recoil to me makes a lot more sense than, you know, the dry fire, you know, come off the gun every time I could see where using a cert or something like that would would also make a lot of sense. 391 00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:49,400 But I would like to a black beard that would fit in the pistol that would give you that entire, you know, front to back experience, I think would would also be fantastic. 392 00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:52,400 So I hope to see that someday, too. 393 00:50:52,400 --> 00:51:03,400 Yeah, yep. And and you guys will see that a lot, I think a lot sooner than you think. We've been developing it for some time now. You know, it's been a couple years and we are making some serious strides. 394 00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:14,400 The last prototype I saw a couple days ago on the team chat boards was insane. I don't think I would divulge too much detail just because I don't know what the final product is going to look like. 395 00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:19,400 But I can tell you where it's at right now is awesome. And I cannot wait to get one myself. 396 00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:23,400 That's great. Well, maybe something to look at the next shot show. Hopefully it will be out by then. 397 00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:34,400 Yeah. Just to cap off, I would like to express, you know, my personal thanks and being invited on and finally being able to make it through the episode and being able to get together and have a good conversation with you guys. 398 00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:50,400 And then Brian also for for any of your listeners, Mantis is wide open. So any questions, concerns, comments, you can go to the website. We've got contact information everywhere there. We're on just about every social media platform that's out there. 399 00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:57,400 Check it out. Look at it. Consider it. And, you know, when you're ready to take the jump, let us know. We're always going to be here for you. 400 00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:09,400 Yeah, Jake, I just really want to appreciate that you're able to come on and talk to us about it. Again, it's a product that we have had an opportunity to utilize and one which I am recommending to my newbies. Definitely. 401 00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:17,400 Both Ken and I have experience with this and we're both, like I said, very, very strong advocates. So, Jake, thanks for your time, sir. Appreciate it. 402 00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:19,400 Oh, I loved it. Thank you guys so much. 403 00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:21,400 All right. Good night. 404 00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:37,400 Yeah, so today, really, really glad that we were able to have Mantis come on with Jake and Jake to share a little bit about the company history, as well as some of the capabilities of this Mantis X that we Craig and I have been able to use. 405 00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:47,400 It's something which I highly recommend, not only for shooters who have plenty of experience, but newbie shooters as well. Actually, in particular, newbie shooters who are trying to get better. 406 00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:58,400 And the large to do it in the privacy of your own home, for example, so you don't have to use live fire, but also at the range. So it's a and and do what save money in the process because you're not. 407 00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:08,400 Yeah, you're not needlessly throwing tens of thousands of dollars or tens of thousands of rounds or both down the range in a vain effort to improve. 408 00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:20,400 Exactly. I mean, with rounds, you know, you can spend upwards of 25 cents or more per round. Plus, there's range time and it gets expensive. It's an expensive hobby, but it's also a perishable skill. 409 00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:31,400 And this is one of the few, few tools that are out commercially available. That is something that's going to really help you. So once again, thanks so much for Jake coming on and describing it. 410 00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:40,400 I've got I've got high hopes for what they're going to be doing in the future. It's a great product and it's a great company. So and and you said perishable. 411 00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:49,400 And that's I think we'll close out on that note. We we we do not want your skills to perish or when we don't want the show to perish either. 412 00:53:49,400 --> 00:54:02,400 I mean, the shows the show is in no danger of perishing, but but perishable skill of what the what the users did not see is that initially we started this recording and I didn't hit the record button. 413 00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:09,400 So we had we lost about the first 10 minutes. So even doing podcasting is a perishable skill for those who are interested. 414 00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:26,400 And we now have our aggregator has moved to campsite.bio. So we are now at HTTPS campsite one word dot bio as in BIO slash frugal firearms podcast. 415 00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:32,400 And we can also always be reached at frugal firearms podcast at gmail.com. 416 00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:41,400 What do we need? We need you to subscribe, like and comment and your whatever your preferred podcast aggregator is. And why do we want that? 417 00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:48,400 Ken? Well, we want to become more widely known. There's no doubt about that. And we're also very interested in hearing what you would like to hear about. 418 00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:55,400 And maybe we can have some upcoming shows. So send in your suggestions as well. So looking forward to that. Exactly. All right. 419 00:54:55,400 --> 00:55:19,400 Thanks for your time, folks, and we'll see you next time. Good night. 420 00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:25,400 See, Ken, this is why you need to watch the video and make and double check me to make sure that that recording button is showing up.