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I thought they were gonna do the same thing. They're like nah, we see so many handguns. It's like it's

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It's like regular stuff. Oh, I know. Yeah, you leave California and nobody cared exactly

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Welcome to the long-awaited episode 9 episode 9 of the frugal firearms podcast

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Podcast designed to help you get the most for your money in all the shooting sports industries

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I'm here again at this time in studio with my co-host Ken Ken say hello to our listeners

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Hello listeners

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I appreciate you guys dialing in and listening to hear us talk a little bit about trying to get the most value for your dollar

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And the shooting sports. So why the heck did we spend so much time not recording?

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I mean, it's been the better part of a year

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Honestly, there has been a lot going on in both our lives. Yeah for both of us

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I I don't think I've necessarily mentioned it before but I work for the Navy and needs of the Navy

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I'm not in the Navy, but I work for the Navy and and when they say needs of the Navy it means something and

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you end up just being busier than you want to be and

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And and yeah, and another another thing listeners is we have a whole stack of cards. I'm here

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I'll give you the sound effect that

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That's my bag of

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business cards from the shot show of potential guests that were coming up on but as of

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As of this moment, none of them are committed to doing the the show at least on a specific schedule

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So there's that as well. So today is a little bit. I wouldn't call it a restart

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maybe it's a reboot of the show and

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We're just gonna talk between Ken and I no guests today about various things

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and I think we're gonna kick off with a discussion about the shot show which I went to and

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the NRA show

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Recently in Dallas that Ken went to yep

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So Ken tell tell listeners about if they haven't been to NRA before why would they want to go to NRA?

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What why is that a good idea? Well this particular year?

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There was a lot of people there for the fact that Trump showed up Trump was at NRA

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This in Dallas a few weeks ago, and there were a lot of people who showed up to see him. So

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But even if if Trump were not there, it's a tremendous opportunity to go see the manufacturers

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virtually all of the major manufacturers are there and

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You're able to talk to them and they have pretty much samples of all of their

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New firearms and you can go through it hold them talk to the salespeople the developers

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You know even some of the machinists in some of the places

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It's it's a it's a miniature version of the shot show well how miniature is it?

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I mean it you know because we talked about if you don't know listeners shot shows an industry show

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It's not a yeah, it's not a public show

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So you have to be credentialed to get in and it tends to be a grind

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It cannot be seen in one day. No it is a massive show

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Yeah shot show in Las Vegas, Nevada is in January every year, and it is a massive show

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You will walk until your feet hurt for several days. I set a record this year

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I did at least to the extent that my iPhone is able to accurately

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Replicate how far you walk, and I I've never checked that accuracy it says I cleared 25 miles

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I wouldn't doubt that 25 miles which is astounding in two and a half days, so yeah, it's it's a

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You better have good shoes and yeah, and I skipped lunch

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I show up when they open and I leave when they kick me out yeah, and and it took two and a half days to do it

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Yeah, everybody is that shot and it's an amazing show and you can go to just particular areas

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And spend time in particular areas of the show the fun thing about shot as well is I know we're about frugal firearms

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But sometimes it can be really fun to go see half million dollar

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Shotgun set you know Parazi is there for example, and they have some it's artwork

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Yes, it's a firearm or multiple firearms, but the engraver who engraved those shotguns

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Probably took a year to two years to engrave one shotgun

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Why hand the other thing that it does too? I mean again and and tell me to the extent that NRA

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facilitates this or does not that at the shot show since

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Basically everyone's there all the manufacturers are there

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you're able to walk from booth a to booth B and

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compare like you know this thing that has a

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$1,700 price tag versus the $700 price tag item and

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Which one do you like better and does it make sense? I mean you can't shoot obviously right the show

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So you don't get that part of it, but even for accessories and things like that it allows direct comparisons now

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Does NRA do the same thing for you and already does the same thing one thing more about shot?

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There is a for certain particularly a small number of people

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I think you have to be in in a print publication or something like that. They actually do have a

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Shooting day media media day. Yeah, you're in the media like you're on TV or something like that

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They'll actually take you out to and live fire. They have live fire machine guns live fire trap shooting live fire

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all the new guns and

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for media if you happen to be

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Have the credentials for that

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That's even more phenomenal

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and if you don't kind of Google around on the YouTube or whatever and look for

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Shot show media day and take a look at some of the really fun things that they get to see and do

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Something like that at the NRA show in terms of I mean is there a media day or a range day or something like that?

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To be honest with you, I didn't look into it that much. Well it's in Dallas, it's in the city

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So it's in Dallas in the city. Probably at the Dallas Pistol Club. I mean did you? No I didn't look into it frankly

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When I went I drove to get there took me two days to get there

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This is dedication listeners because he drove from Southern, California to Dallas

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Yeah, it's about 1300 miles. I would have flown just

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I

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Drove um, I like to drive. It's a lot of fun. I like to fly. Mm-hmm

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There you go. The fun thing about driving in Texas is the price of gas was two dollars and seventy three cents a gallon

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That is which is a good two dollars a gallon cheaper than it is in Southern, California

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Yeah, easily two dollars a gallon would you have if you were carrying?

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Anything there would you have been reluctant to?

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Fly just because of that. I mean if you ever

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I I have I have traveled with them

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It's a little bit. It's always a little dicey when you travel with firearm

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And on airfare because you don't totally trust that that your bag even as well marks as it may be

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With an air tag inside it is and do not travel without putting an air tag inside of your

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Inside your case because you want to know they do lose things all the time

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But I went to tac-con this year and and tac-con was at the Dallas Pistol Club and I did have to

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You know bring guns because it it is training the way they do it is they take your gun of course

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From you they walked as at least this is in San Diego

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They walk you down to where TSA inspects baggage not

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Individual carry-on but where they inspect baggage

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But they don't let you in and they've given you what they refer to as a peppermint tag

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Which is green and white striped and then they go in look at and they come back and tell you you're good to go

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You're not good to go and they came back and said good to go on the other end in Dallas

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The gun does not go to the regular carousel

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It goes to the special handling like for oversized luggage

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Hmm, and then it comes out and there's a little blue light that flashes just like a police car basically right

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Above and when they bring the thing out then they know that they have a secure package

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And then they check your ID against the the the package and as long as they match you're good and honestly

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I thought god this is gonna suck and it didn't suck at all and it I kind of appreciated actually the extra layer of security

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Yeah

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Checking the gun in at Dallas could come back to San Diego. I thought they were gonna do the same thing

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They're like nah, we see so many hand. It's like it's

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It's like regular stuff. Oh, I know. Yeah, you need California and nobody cared

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Exactly. I mean I still had to check it but but as far as any go wait for outside the TSA desk

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They're like nah, you're good. Right? Okay

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It's a totally different vibe in different parts of the country and how they how people perceive firearms

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so the NRA show them was

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public for

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Everybody or only for members. No, you had to be a member

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I think you could join if you want to it was free for members now. I'm more than a life member

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I mean, I've been a life member for are you endowment? I'm endowment. I'm endowment member. Yeah

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Yeah, so the nice thing about that was I mean I've been a life member for probably what almost 40 years not quite

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Maybe I don't remember. Yeah

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35 40 years probably 40 years

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Anyway, and you continue to give money hell I have I have payroll deduction

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still going off to to certain shooting sports at NRA and

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So what would you say? I'm gonna interrupt you again. Yeah, what would you say to people who think that really firearms Policy Coalition or

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or

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Goa sure or something like that is a better organization and they a

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Lot of people have a problem with the NRA either because of Wayne LaPierre or just in general and they yes NRA

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Isn't really doesn't really have our back or

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Right. I would sadly have to agree with them

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Wayne LaPierre is leaving or has left

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so

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And I have known

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Well met Wayne. I mean we both met Wayne. Yeah, we did. Yeah, we did up in Orange County, Orange County. Yeah, we did. Yeah

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And had an opportunity to talk to him. It is his time to go if not that she should have already left and our a has not

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Been at the front lines of really defending the firearm sports as much as they should be

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Definitely Second Amendment Foundation much better firearms Policy Coalition much better

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Here in San Diego County San Diego

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gun owners

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Much better, California Rifle and Pistol Association

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There are a Second Amendment Foundation. There are a whole host of ones there

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Those are the organizations who are stepping up to the to take the legal fight to the court system

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particularly after Heller 2008 Heller decision and of course the 2022

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New York State Rifle and Pistol Association versus Bruin

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and get those things

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Done and if you want to know more about that, there were some excellent excellent YouTube

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People to take a look at and you think I can mention a couple of them

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Yeah, yeah, definitely we endorse all kinds of different things. Absolutely the two I would recommend

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Actually, I'll give you three

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That I would recommend listening to I listen to him pretty much every single day

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That's the armed scholar. He's out of San Bernardino, California

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He focuses obviously on California

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But he does the whole the whole country talk about all the legal things going in the whole country and and he's a lawyer himself

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And he gives you a pretty good pretty good understanding what's happening. Then there's one out of Washington State

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What is the Washington?

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Gun it's William Kirk of the Washington

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gun

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Darn it. I can't remember

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William Kirk Washington can find it. I think I think I think it's Washington gun law

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Okay is what it is

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But if you want to really understand the Supreme Court if you really want to understand how the legal system works

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And how the justices are going to vote on why they do certain things

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There is no one better than the four boxes diner with

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Mark W Smith who is a United State. He's an attorney a member of United States a

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Supreme Court

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bar

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He is a best-selling author. He's written about five or six books

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The most recent one I just finished called Israel disarmed. It's an action of that book

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I didn't know the name of the author. Yeah mark W Smith. He is phenomenal

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Now he is going to explain to you the law

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So you are literally and he'll tell you this you will be the smartest person in the room

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You'll be smarter than a legal professor who thinks they know. Oh, well, you can't do that

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Yeah, you can or he'll will explain to you why something is the way it is. What's the historical behind it?

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He is the guy who if you really really want to understand the law and have an appreciation for the law and the

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brilliance of our founding fathers in

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in writing the constitution and particularly the Second Amendment and how

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Important that is to us today

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Mark W Smith the four boxes diner. Well, is the four boxes diner a

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Gun centric show absolutely. So all of this is so you mentioned that okay, so it's not it's just second

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No, okay. It's 100% Second Amendment stuff. Although he will talk about for example

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He will talk about a fishing case that's happening off the coast of Newfoundland right now

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Well, why because it has to do with a legal precedent?

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That's about to be overturned and when it does get overturned how it will impact the Second Amendment

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Everything comes back to be to how it affects the Second Amendment

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So he may talk about a different case a different thing and he'll tell you why this other case that's seems to be

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Nothing to do with the Second Amendment is going to be extremely important to us

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As a legal precedent and will be quoted and cited going forward. So maybe that's a

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I don't know if you know having his own podcast if he wants to appear in other podcasts

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Sometimes they do sometimes they don't well, he might be someone to bring on our pod

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Well, we could we could we could ask him. He's trying to get to a hundred and fifty thousand subscribers right now

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Okay

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And I highly recommend going to the four boxes diner

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And taking a look at the things that he's done in the past and things he does literally every day

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That's that's a number and this is a video video. Yeah, you can listen to him

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I mean you can listen to him, but he basically the video is just watching him talk

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Well, sometimes the you lose context on video podcasts if you're just trying to listen to them because they're talking about

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You know some item they're holding and everyone has the yeah the context of what they can see and if you're just listening you

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You can't join in really no. No, I mean he will for example when he reads the second amendment

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Decisions or something like what a court decision will be he'll put the text of it up on the screen

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And then he'll read through it so you can actually read the text as he's reading it

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Himself and and under and describing it to you why it's important. So going back to the nra show

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Yes, would you wreck now, you know understanding that there there are two different animals for two different animals

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Was it worth the time and distance and cost and oh, yeah, I mean

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Cost was things like hotels. Yeah. Yeah, yes and everything else

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I I well, yeah, plus I enjoy driving and I'd like to see different parts of the country

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So I'll give you a quick quick thing if you've never driven across the United States

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I mean it's from coast to coast put it on your bucket list because

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The United States is a massively huge country with massive amounts of open spaces

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And absolutely beautiful and I would highly recommend everyone do at least once in their life drive across the country if not

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Go, I agree. Maybe we have a difference in opinions on what car you should use for that

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My word that's outside the boundaries of this podcast. Indeed. Yeah, in fact, I'm about to say

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Arizona and I'll probably have a much more comfortable time than you would have but yeah anyway, uh, that's a separate topic

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So yeah, then that is every so they move around the nra show, right? They do

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It's been in loving states. Yeah, we've been I think it's been in Reno, Nevada. It's been in Houston, Texas

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Florida, I think it was in Atlanta. Yeah

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Right and I've never well we went to one back in the 80s once. Yeah, we went I don't remember where it was but it was a long damn

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Long time ago. Yeah, where nra is i'm sorry shot show is more reliably a vegas thing plus it's only five and a half hours away from us

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Or less you could do it in less come on now

214
00:17:20,620 --> 00:17:23,580
I mean in five and a half hours if you stop or run into traffic

215
00:17:23,580 --> 00:17:30,540
Or drive the speed limit. Yeah, no one including the police drives the speed limit

216
00:17:30,540 --> 00:17:36,140
I was following a chp the other day who was I was having trouble keeping up with him at 80

217
00:17:36,140 --> 00:17:41,020
And he was not running lights and sirens. He was just cruising with traffic and he was north of 80

218
00:17:41,020 --> 00:17:47,260
And and I will tell you this I drove 7 000 miles from southern california to new england and back again

219
00:17:47,260 --> 00:17:57,420
In the last five weeks and I can tell you this I saw maybe two police cars in 7 000 miles on the side of the road

220
00:17:57,420 --> 00:18:04,220
With with radar two oh with radar with radar you mean you don't mean totally no no no we saw actually setting traps

221
00:18:04,220 --> 00:18:08,700
Yeah, who are actually setting traps maybe two and that was not in california that was not in california

222
00:18:08,700 --> 00:18:12,860
Yeah, right. Yeah, california's got a different route. Yeah, and I think that's the only thing that's

223
00:18:12,860 --> 00:18:18,380
I mean it doesn't mean that they don't ever enforce the law but it seems to be selective and infrequent

224
00:18:18,380 --> 00:18:23,740
Right kind of thing. So, okay. So what well you know what that kind of brings up topic number two

225
00:18:23,740 --> 00:18:31,180
Which was both of these shows are good for comparing things. Absolutely. So we have a comparison of two things

226
00:18:31,180 --> 00:18:36,700
Um that are sitting right on the table in front of us and as an audio-only podcast of course dear listeners

227
00:18:36,700 --> 00:18:40,780
You can't compare the two of them. So we have a comparison of two things

228
00:18:40,780 --> 00:18:45,740
Audio-only podcast of course dear listeners you cannot see it but we'll describe it one being

229
00:18:46,780 --> 00:18:54,620
Both of them are 1911s both of them are 1911 one is a california compliant rock island and it's a relatively

230
00:18:54,620 --> 00:19:00,300
New purchase looking at shots showed all the things that I could find in terms of value

231
00:19:00,300 --> 00:19:07,420
I thought that it was the best overall value came with an msrp of 7.99 street price was a little bit less than that

232
00:19:07,420 --> 00:19:13,020
Very good trigger and and you could talk all you want about does it have mem parts in it

233
00:19:13,740 --> 00:19:19,980
And it's metal injection molding. Yes metal injection molding. In other words, it's not 100% forged

234
00:19:19,980 --> 00:19:22,940
But then again, you're not paying the price for 100% forged now

235
00:19:23,580 --> 00:19:25,420
Okay, so we'll talk about that for a second

236
00:19:25,420 --> 00:19:33,100
The engineer in me says i'd like to have forged but the engineer in me also says that some parts that are low stress parts

237
00:19:33,100 --> 00:19:39,100
Don't really need to be forged. So now which parts are mem and which parts are forged?

238
00:19:39,100 --> 00:19:44,620
I actually don't know so I can't say whether they got the recipe right in this gun

239
00:19:45,180 --> 00:19:48,860
But the slide is is nice and tight on the rails

240
00:19:49,740 --> 00:19:58,140
Everything is quite crisp. The the trigger is particularly good. And what are we comparing that to my my son's my oldest son's

241
00:19:58,140 --> 00:20:05,580
newly acquired Springfield Armory trp. So what are your observations on the trp ken?

242
00:20:05,580 --> 00:20:12,060
Well, even before we get to that I might want to just comment on on the fact that you have the mem parts

243
00:20:12,220 --> 00:20:14,300
Okay, which are less expensive to produce. Yeah

244
00:20:15,180 --> 00:20:18,060
Inside a firearm and pretty much any firearm

245
00:20:19,020 --> 00:20:20,780
I mean look at the Glock

246
00:20:20,780 --> 00:20:24,220
We have polymer handguns everywhere. They're obviously not metal

247
00:20:24,220 --> 00:20:27,740
And they're obviously polymer is obviously less less strong

248
00:20:28,220 --> 00:20:35,500
But as long as all the strength exists in the areas that need the strength the barrel the bolt whatever it might be

249
00:20:35,980 --> 00:20:42,780
You're fine. If it's elsewhere on the firearm if it's on some movable part the trigger shoe

250
00:20:43,420 --> 00:20:49,100
A button here or there and it's a metal injected molded part. It shouldn't be a problem. It's totally fine

251
00:20:49,100 --> 00:20:53,580
Yeah, shouldn't be totally fine because you don't need a forged part for that. And and you know what to the point?

252
00:20:53,580 --> 00:20:59,340
I the smith and wesson m&p series they came out with a metal framed version

253
00:21:00,540 --> 00:21:07,660
I might be in the minority. I didn't like it. I didn't think it felt right to me the I I would

254
00:21:08,460 --> 00:21:10,460
Dollar, I mean even for free

255
00:21:10,860 --> 00:21:16,060
I held it at the show. I did not think it was a better gun. No, I actually not as good

256
00:21:16,140 --> 00:21:19,580
Yeah, I actually held it at the show. I know I forgot the model number the

257
00:21:19,580 --> 00:21:26,560
CSP I remember I have to look it up. But I but I mean just ergonomically and just the way the thing felt it didn't feel right

258
00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:28,560
Right. I mean it's because I like glocks

259
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:32,400
True and i'm used to the balance on being on top of the gun instead of through the body

260
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:37,440
True. I held it and I actually liked it. Okay, and the other thing I liked about it is yeah

261
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,160
I mean I do have polymer guns

262
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:44,080
You know and and polymer guns have been around since the 80s

263
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:49,200
Uh, yeah, I think uh the late 80s of first glocks 87 or something like that

264
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:56,400
Yeah, the release of the glock 17 was 87 about 80. I don't remember 86 but something really

265
00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:01,680
Yeah, mid 80s. Um, and I I guess I look at the glock and I go yeah

266
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:06,320
These are polymer frames and stuff, but will my great-grandchild be able to fire that?

267
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:11,600
I don't know is a is a polymer frame going to become more brittle in in a hundred years. I don't know

268
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:18,080
Maybe it will I had a glock mag fail the polymer failed. Yeah failed because it just split open

269
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:22,320
It just split open right so part of me kind of likes the all-metal guns

270
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:26,080
I'm not saying you know, I mean for carry and stuff like that

271
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,920
Uh, I I get the the ergonomics of and the lightweight stuff

272
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:32,960
Of a polymer gun and I have lots of polymer guns

273
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:35,760
but you know what if I want to hand something on to my my

274
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:43,040
Child my grandchild my great-grandchild my great-great-grandchild who say this belonged to you know, peppy whatever back and you know

275
00:22:43,360 --> 00:22:46,000
Hopefully they'll still have rights. Well, let's hope they do

276
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:52,640
I mean, but uh, but an all an all-metal firearm would I think would it you know, you can dig this thing

277
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:59,280
Dig one up in a in an egyptian tomb 2 000 years. It'll probably be fine. You dig a glock up 2 000 years from now

278
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:04,240
You'll probably disintegrate. Yeah, probably the the plastics kind of disintegrate, you know, I don't know that'd be the case

279
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:08,160
But but that's just that's just kind of me. So I do have a little bit of a uh,

280
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,680
I'm not buying guns for three generations down the road. I'm buying them

281
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:15,280
No, but i'm trying to think about me. Well, maybe one generation down the road

282
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:21,280
Oh, yeah one generation, but I want to make sure I hand on the freedom that i've been given when I was born

283
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:28,640
That I hand that on in full and it's in its totality to the next generation. Well totality for you is a lot

284
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:31,280
but

285
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:37,600
Um, the rights the rights that we have received the rights that we received. Okay, so let's let's let's compare and contrast

286
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:39,040
so the

287
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,040
trp comes in sure at

288
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:45,600
Almost a thousand dollars more exactly the rock island, right?

289
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:50,960
These are both 1911 pattern firearms and they are both excellent

290
00:23:52,540 --> 00:23:55,920
Ergonomically, I mean the 1911 being now

291
00:23:56,940 --> 00:24:02,400
113 years old. I don't know the number but I mean just like I don't know when the flock was first introduced

292
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:08,960
I don't I certainly don't know that. Yeah, so I think it's the pattern is a hundred browning fans will will probably yelling at the

293
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:14,240
At their radios right now. It's called the 1911 because they came out. Yeah, it came out in 1911

294
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:20,320
The design obviously predates that. Yeah. Yeah. No, he had a 1903 and an even earlier designs that were similar to it

295
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,440
but I mean basically this pattern has been out for

296
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,240
well over a hundred years and

297
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:28,980
There's a reason for that. I mean ergonomically

298
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:36,080
He amazingly got it right really got it right. So you're saying you don't like the Glock grip angle?

299
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:43,120
Um, it's it's interesting 22 degrees versus 18 degrees, um, which is basically the difference between them, right?

300
00:24:43,360 --> 00:24:49,840
Uh, I can adapt to either one. Yeah, I don't have I don't maybe I don't this could be like

301
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:56,480
analogous to a food that you just don't have the palate to understand the difference between the two and to be able to discern the

302
00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:01,200
Difference between right foods to me. I adjust to both of them equally. Yeah

303
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:06,960
You go instantly. I don't really have a problem with the 22 degree grip angle on the Glock, right?

304
00:25:07,120 --> 00:25:10,080
I mean and I have some with radically different grip angles

305
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:15,520
I mean I I bought a paint sprayer gun one time and one of the average I think it was uh,

306
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:22,800
I think it was a De Vilbis or a sharp or somebody who made it and one of their things was it has the same grip angle

307
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:24,720
As a 45

308
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:28,000
1911 45 that was a sales point that was that was a sales point

309
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:33,440
Wow, you know and that grip angle is is incredibly popular actually, you know the ruger

310
00:25:34,540 --> 00:25:40,160
2245 which I happen to have which is a 22 target pistol with many of the same ergonomics

311
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,520
You know basically duplicates this 45

312
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,400
this 1911 45 acp

313
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:48,960
grip angle and it's

314
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:53,200
Super popular and I can understand why I mean it's been around for 100 years and people love it

315
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,000
I also have other guns

316
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,800
Which have radically different grip angles?

317
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:01,840
And i'm thinking of some of the high standard

318
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:07,520
Olympic pistols that I have right a lot of those are very steep angles because the idea is that you

319
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:15,600
By cocking your wrist downward you lock your hand exactly and it actually immobilizes essentially immobilizes your wrist

320
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,920
Yeah, which isn't a bad thing. No, no and that's for a for a target pistol particularly

321
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,960
That's what it's its design is for but for a combat pistol

322
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:28,560
Which this one is the 1911 pattern was designed as the combat pistol the ultimate combat pistol

323
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:32,480
And it basically stayed with the united state military for about 70 years

324
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:39,600
Until the 80s when it was replaced with the unfortunately m9 my opinion the beretta 92

325
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:45,520
I i'm not a beretta fan. Sorry. I'm just not at least that pattern of uh of gun

326
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:51,360
Um and now replaced by the sig right when everyone thought it was going to be the glock and it ended up being the sig

327
00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:55,760
That was a big surprise. So okay. So tell me about tell me about the trp

328
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:58,080
What do you think about?

329
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,080
Like I guess if you like having skin

330
00:27:01,360 --> 00:27:03,760
This gun is questionable because the 20 lpi

331
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:09,120
I believe is 20 lpi front strap checkering lines per inch checkering is

332
00:27:09,740 --> 00:27:14,080
Aggressive to say the least that's one way to put it. Yeah, I mean you could grate cheese on this

333
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:20,080
Absolutely, you could create. Yeah, you could actually file metal other metal objects. You probably could

334
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:21,440
Yeah

335
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,440
Which makes it to me?

336
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:30,480
What is it jerry mitchellick, uh, he's he's an advocate of smooth grip handguns all I don't really

337
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,080
At the expense of disrespecting

338
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:41,040
A person who has been around firearms and has a name in firearms that I could never even consider having I don't really

339
00:27:41,580 --> 00:27:48,240
Personally agree with that perspective, but I guess there's room for personal preference. Sure

340
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:50,080
um

341
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,720
These g10 scales on this trp are

342
00:27:53,340 --> 00:27:57,200
uber aggressive uber aggressive they're like they're vz grips basically if you've ever

343
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:04,080
Listeners if you I mean vz grips make some great grips, but oh my god. Some of them are super super aggressive

344
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:12,160
Yeah to squeeze this super tightly. It is literally painful because those those uh stipples are digging into your hands so much

345
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:17,120
Um now is that what would you notice in a stressful situation? Absolutely not definitely not

346
00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:21,760
No, you don't people think oh in a defend your life situation

347
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:27,600
Are you going to uh, you know feel the recoil or hear the report of the of the round?

348
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:34,080
You don't you don't hear either neither when your body dumps a half a quarter an adrenaline into your blood system

349
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:40,160
You don't hear it. You don't feel it. Yep. You will act the way you have been trained

350
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,960
And uh, will you even see the front sight? Will you see your sights at all?

351
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:50,320
I mean really yeah, those are interesting questions fruit will and and and you know

352
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:54,240
Probably you could talk to john korea about this and get a better

353
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:59,840
Answer or or at least a statistically valid, you know or or empirical answer

354
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,720
But a lot of people don't even see their front sights, right?

355
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:05,840
It's almost instinctual

356
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:11,600
Yeah, because survival is instinctual sure and in most survival situations is going to be very close range

357
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:16,640
Right and actually at taccon, uh, that's perhaps

358
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:19,280
Maybe a topic for a different show. Sure

359
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:23,840
but at taccon one of the classes I took had to do with

360
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:29,040
You know kind of how good is good enough in terms of shooting accuracy now

361
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,480
It's interesting that there was one class that was

362
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:37,280
Sort of like it's hard to miss basically if you think about index shooting

363
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,640
And and how much you worry about your front sights and so on

364
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,760
and another class, uh, which was um

365
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,240
Related to three-dimensional aspects of shooting and by that

366
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:53,680
I mean we were shooting at three-dimensional targets and saying well what happens if it's 45 degrees to you

367
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,000
What happens if it's 90 degrees to you?

368
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,120
Where do you want to place the shot in order to get a quick stop?

369
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:04,000
In that they talked very extensively about where the critical zones are

370
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:10,400
And and the necessity to get the first shots into those critical zones. There's differences of opinion. Oh, yeah

371
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,120
Now there are definitely different differences of opinion

372
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,840
But I mean going back to the overall thing about the trp

373
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:20,160
This is a very high quality firearm that has a lot of the features

374
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:22,720
That some of the hand-fitted

375
00:30:23,420 --> 00:30:30,240
1911 models that are going to cost one or two thousand dollars more than this. I mean you can spend uh,

376
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:32,640
19 on a 1911 pattern

377
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:33,680
uh

378
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:35,840
Pistol you can spend four grand

379
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,680
But it's not as good as say well blackhawk

380
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:45,440
For one which is starts at about 3,500 or goes up quickly from there

381
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:51,200
Or in some other patterns the tern tacticals or things like that that are I mean, they're not 1911s

382
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:53,600
the dan wesson

383
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:55,840
Sure, which is really a 2011 pattern gun

384
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,840
Or some of the other guns like that, but they're also more expensive

385
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:05,120
I mean, I think the price point on this to have a gun that you know is kind of a semi

386
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:07,680
Custom gun. Yeah, this is a semi custom

387
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:13,520
You're going to get the amber dextrous safety left right safety. You're going to get the dovetail front rear sights

388
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,560
Which is nice. You can this one has built-in

389
00:31:17,420 --> 00:31:22,720
Trijicon night sights or the radioactive night. It does have tritium sights tritium sights on it

390
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:24,720
But as I as I close the slide

391
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:27,360
on my ria

392
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:33,360
Which is the less expensive option a lot less expensive option and I would say that

393
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,080
the trigger on the trp was

394
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:40,240
Actually for me a little on the light side. I actually prefer a slightly heavier trigger

395
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:44,320
So that's just a preference thing both were about equally crisp

396
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:52,820
Uh the safety on the trp is a little bit better. Uh, just in terms of how crisply it engages and disengages

397
00:31:52,820 --> 00:31:57,780
um this particular model the rock island comes with an extended slide release which

398
00:31:58,740 --> 00:32:00,740
I think is mandatory. I don't

399
00:32:00,900 --> 00:32:05,140
I think that the original slide release on the is actually terrible

400
00:32:05,940 --> 00:32:10,820
Yeah, and the original 1911 just is too far away from your thumb if you're hitting with your offhand

401
00:32:10,820 --> 00:32:11,860
That's fine

402
00:32:11,860 --> 00:32:14,500
If you want to hit with your primary hand you have to reach around it

403
00:32:14,500 --> 00:32:20,200
It just doesn't make sense to me and the weight on the trp is lower. Yeah, there could be a combination

404
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,400
Well, that's a four inch versus my five inch. That's part of it

405
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:27,080
But I think it could be maybe a difference in materials as well

406
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:32,440
But I will say a couple things about the about the 1911 that pretty much all of the best ones have

407
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,480
You can buy what's considered a government pattern 1911

408
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:39,480
Which means the ones that came out just like they did in 1911

409
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:45,640
Uh, and one of the things about that is the uh, the the grip safety on the back

410
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:52,040
On the back and uh the original government grip safeties to me are absolutely useless

411
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,400
Uh, they do function as a safety. You want the extended

412
00:32:56,040 --> 00:33:02,760
What's called the extended beaver tail? Yes. Okay. What the extended beaver tail does is it it hooks upward

413
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:08,280
Around the back of the grip and it protects the uh, the hammer as it comes down

414
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:10,840
but more importantly than that

415
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,000
is particularly if you have uh

416
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:19,400
If you're one of the people who are uh, slightly rounder than other people like perhaps myself, uh, slightly rounder

417
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:21,640
slightly

418
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:26,200
I've enjoyed my my share of donuts and high caloric intake for far too long

419
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:31,720
But nonetheless, um because of that my hands when I wrap around a typical

420
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:38,280
Web of your hand government pattern you can't see this. Yeah government pattern 1911 with a standard government

421
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:41,800
Uh, you'd be pinching yourself. Well, not only pinching myself

422
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:46,280
I get slot what's called slide bite which means when the slide comes back

423
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:52,280
It will nick the top of the web of my of my hand between my forefinger and my thumb

424
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:57,960
And I will be bleeding well with the trp since you're gonna be bleeding on the palms of your hand and on

425
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:05,400
Second digit of three of your fingers because of the front checkering. Yeah now you can be bleeding more uniformly

426
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:10,600
Yeah, which you don't want to do just because you're shooting it. So in my opinion any

427
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:18,220
1911 pattern firearm should come with a an extended beaver tail now. They can be added. I've added them to mine

428
00:34:19,100 --> 00:34:23,100
You can buy the part and oftentimes you have to round off the frame on the back itself

429
00:34:23,180 --> 00:34:26,860
I had to grind off the rear of the my 1911 colt to do that

430
00:34:27,580 --> 00:34:29,980
And basically hand fit it in in position

431
00:34:30,620 --> 00:34:32,620
Uh, I have a colt commander

432
00:34:33,500 --> 00:34:35,500
model series

433
00:34:35,740 --> 00:34:37,740
80 I think it is series 80

434
00:34:37,740 --> 00:34:44,060
Anyway, um, but yeah, if you're gonna buy a 1911 pattern firearm, I would definitely get a

435
00:34:44,620 --> 00:34:48,940
the rounded beaver tail if for no other reason then the gun will be

436
00:34:49,720 --> 00:34:51,720
fireable by

437
00:34:51,740 --> 00:34:57,340
Normal sized people as well as those people who enjoy their donuts and their high color

438
00:34:57,980 --> 00:35:04,620
Things who whose hands perhaps were a little uh chubbier than they should be pardon pardon the cough people

439
00:35:04,620 --> 00:35:06,620
The

440
00:35:06,620 --> 00:35:10,220
The other the other thing though that I think is is

441
00:35:10,620 --> 00:35:16,380
Is neat about that gun is it does have and I know traditionalists don't care for this a whole heck of a lot

442
00:35:16,380 --> 00:35:20,060
I like a rail on a 1911

443
00:35:20,660 --> 00:35:25,580
Absolutely, and my rock island does not have a rail correct and by the rail

444
00:35:25,580 --> 00:35:29,500
We're talking about under the barrel in front of the in front of the trigger guard

445
00:35:29,500 --> 00:35:35,100
You have a picatinny rail or some sort of a rail there are slots with three slots

446
00:35:35,100 --> 00:35:39,820
Some only have one slot, but there are like a glock will only have one slot and you can

447
00:35:40,340 --> 00:35:42,340
The glock slot isn't even the same

448
00:35:44,060 --> 00:35:49,460
Yeah, they have their own their glock they can do whatever they want they can design their own rather than use a picatinny

449
00:35:49,460 --> 00:35:54,340
Why use industry standard when you can create your own? Yes, right. So but yeah

450
00:35:54,340 --> 00:36:01,620
I like Apple by the way, and by the way listeners, I am an Apple fan. So I'm not criticizing Apple just noting something

451
00:36:01,620 --> 00:36:03,620
I could criticize them, but we have a

452
00:36:04,380 --> 00:36:11,880
Separate episode for that quite a bit, but no going back to the rail underneath the underneath the the barrel underneath the slide

453
00:36:12,220 --> 00:36:17,860
I am definitely if you're gonna buy a new 1911 and you're not just buying it because it's a it's a classic

454
00:36:18,180 --> 00:36:23,040
Pistol and you want the exact thing that looked like in World War two or World War one for that matter

455
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,040
I highly recommend buying

456
00:36:25,220 --> 00:36:30,300
One of the manufacturers and there are a host of manufacturers that produce excellent quality pistols

457
00:36:30,420 --> 00:36:33,560
But I would definitely pick one with a rail that comes on the bottom

458
00:36:34,660 --> 00:36:37,900
The you bring up a case you bring up a question too

459
00:36:37,900 --> 00:36:38,500
I mean

460
00:36:38,500 --> 00:36:45,420
I just saw something about the CMP is currently not shipping any 45s because they have a government audit going on and it's put

461
00:36:45,420 --> 00:36:49,820
Hold on all their shipments CMPC civilian marksmanship program. Yes, exactly

462
00:36:49,820 --> 00:36:53,500
So you can purchase what at least used to be?

463
00:36:54,220 --> 00:36:55,940
government surplus

464
00:36:55,940 --> 00:36:57,820
stuff

465
00:36:57,820 --> 00:37:04,220
They used to have and ones they still do now. Yeah, they do they have 45s

466
00:37:05,060 --> 00:37:08,560
But there's there's two aspects to this their pricing

467
00:37:08,780 --> 00:37:15,260
It used to be the idea was the civilian marksmanship program was to encourage marksmanship among civilians

468
00:37:15,260 --> 00:37:22,220
Did you do so at a basically subsidized cost because the government were to surplus it didn't need anymore?

469
00:37:24,180 --> 00:37:31,020
Their prices now don't make sense to me for a lot of things they don't I mean a lot of their classic rifles

470
00:37:31,020 --> 00:37:34,500
For example, you can still get an M1 a rack grade M1

471
00:37:34,500 --> 00:37:36,100
I know this is kind of outside our stuff

472
00:37:36,100 --> 00:37:42,100
But like a rack grade means basically was run over by at least a tank if not, you know an IED hit

473
00:37:42,100 --> 00:37:48,020
It was I mean it a lot of people who use it. It's been rebuilt a few times. It's functional. It will work

474
00:37:48,540 --> 00:37:54,620
But yeah a rack grade rifle, which is a pretty much the lowest grade rifle. Yeah, it basically means yeah

475
00:37:54,620 --> 00:37:58,500
It's it's it's there. It does function probably reliably

476
00:38:02,260 --> 00:38:05,100
It's not a showpiece it's it's been carried and

477
00:38:06,300 --> 00:38:10,240
What's the phrase? It's been ridden hard and put away wet, you know

478
00:38:10,240 --> 00:38:15,360
I think that's that's a horse. That's a horse reference. Okay. I was gonna say this this is

479
00:38:17,720 --> 00:38:23,080
Yeah, but I mean basically yeah, it's been beaten up pretty good because it's been used quite a bit anyway

480
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:26,460
But you can get those for like 700 bucks. But at this point in time

481
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,580
You'd probably do better. I mean a really nice condition M1

482
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:33,640
Grand

483
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:36,760
Will run you north of $1,500

484
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:39,440
and or something even higher

485
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:43,960
But I mean specific to that well the M1 is one thing because they're not made anymore

486
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:49,640
So there's not really a well that well, that's not really true. I think there is one a couple many factors expensive

487
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:54,600
I mean, there you are. And there's not a large market for them. No, my point being that the

488
00:38:56,200 --> 00:39:02,580
The 1911 is so ubiquitous across a number of manufacturers that I'm not really sure that buying a

489
00:39:02,580 --> 00:39:05,680
a piece from CMP in

490
00:39:06,420 --> 00:39:11,700
Not worth it just because of the historical historical is a reason but now there's something else going on

491
00:39:11,700 --> 00:39:17,420
Okay, which is when I was shot I was told by a representative from TISIS

492
00:39:17,580 --> 00:39:24,680
Which makes great guns by the way, but they're Turkish Turkish. Yeah that they were going to be the new

493
00:39:25,980 --> 00:39:28,140
manufacturer for CMP for

494
00:39:29,700 --> 00:39:31,700
You know quote-unquote mil-spec guns

495
00:39:31,700 --> 00:39:37,380
Hmm for traditional pattern guns. Oh interesting that we're going to sell new

496
00:39:37,860 --> 00:39:44,860
TISIS guns Oh cool through CMP because I guess the government is they're running out there has run out or is running out sure

497
00:39:46,140 --> 00:39:48,740
But why would I then?

498
00:39:49,260 --> 00:39:54,740
I'm losing the I don't know on why would I want to go get a CMP gun anymore?

499
00:39:54,740 --> 00:39:57,260
Well, I don't know we'll have to look at the prices

500
00:39:57,260 --> 00:40:02,660
And the other thing is that CMP guns get mailed straight to your house. You don't feel through 44 73

501
00:40:02,660 --> 00:40:07,700
I didn't are you sure yeah, I bought one along in all states

502
00:40:08,700 --> 00:40:11,940
I think so pretty sure but we'd have to look into that

503
00:40:11,940 --> 00:40:16,700
I don't know you go out of the website read about silly marketing program and figure out the latest

504
00:40:16,820 --> 00:40:18,660
So this is homework for you

505
00:40:18,660 --> 00:40:21,860
If you're interested in the CMP gun go take a look at the prices if you're interested in it

506
00:40:21,860 --> 00:40:28,140
Go see how you qualify and then go see whether or not what Ken just said is correct. Yeah, I think in a lot of states

507
00:40:28,140 --> 00:40:32,180
They mail it straight to your house, but which is kind of nice, but

508
00:40:32,860 --> 00:40:36,180
Yeah, you have to check it out and again the reason to have it is to say here

509
00:40:36,180 --> 00:40:40,380
I want a rifle that I know was in World War two. Yeah, but if it's a new TISIS

510
00:40:40,820 --> 00:40:44,420
45 yeah, you're getting a nice 45 except it just came off the line

511
00:40:45,060 --> 00:40:49,140
Turkey yeah, which may be fine Turkish guns are actually they make some great stuff

512
00:40:49,140 --> 00:40:52,460
But it has no historical value other than being the same pattern

513
00:40:52,460 --> 00:40:55,860
But it's the same reason to sit there and say you know I'd really like a Civil War

514
00:40:56,140 --> 00:41:02,460
Black powder Brown best rifle or a revolutionary war Brown best okay an original one is gonna cost you a ton of money

515
00:41:02,780 --> 00:41:07,720
Plus the steel probably wasn't that great back in the day, and you really want to fire it

516
00:41:08,620 --> 00:41:14,820
Maybe not because it might blow up in your hands only because it's 150 200 years old or whatever or more

517
00:41:14,820 --> 00:41:18,300
Mm-hmm, so there are there are reasons why you want to have

518
00:41:19,020 --> 00:41:20,580
modern

519
00:41:20,580 --> 00:41:22,100
metallurgy in

520
00:41:22,100 --> 00:41:27,020
Classical firearms, and I have quite a few of them well. I mean as an engineer. I agree with this

521
00:41:27,300 --> 00:41:30,860
Yeah, I mean, it's the strength of it on the theory that

522
00:41:32,740 --> 00:41:35,580
Engineering capability gets better over time. It doesn't always get better

523
00:41:35,580 --> 00:41:39,980
I mean look at look at a modern refrigerator versus an old refrigerator, right?

524
00:41:39,980 --> 00:41:43,060
Yeah, you know there was a meme that like the old refrigerators

525
00:41:43,060 --> 00:41:48,820
You know I will outlive you live your your children. I am time itself

526
00:41:48,820 --> 00:41:53,740
You know they worked that well, and now the new ones well don't and now they don't

527
00:41:55,220 --> 00:42:01,660
Maybe in terms of metallurgy perhaps yeah, it just depends on as a reenactor or something like that

528
00:42:01,660 --> 00:42:05,460
You probably don't want to run around with a historical piece that might be quite valuable going back to men

529
00:42:05,460 --> 00:42:11,500
I mean there was no men no back in the day because the technology to create it didn't exist and now you have additive

530
00:42:11,500 --> 00:42:15,140
manufacturing right of 3d printing that

531
00:42:15,860 --> 00:42:18,660
That's very very recently and that's going to take off

532
00:42:19,860 --> 00:42:26,620
Tremendously where people are going to be making but they're gonna be printing home metal guns or home metal things

533
00:42:27,420 --> 00:42:28,700
designs

534
00:42:28,700 --> 00:42:31,980
Which are ever really do that because it wouldn't be legal right?

535
00:42:32,460 --> 00:42:37,720
Yeah, no, I well according to the Constitution you have a right to make your own firearms at home

536
00:42:37,720 --> 00:42:43,280
That is being litigated somewhat now a bit, but ultimately it's going to come down to wait a minute

537
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:50,400
They we have history tradition on our side people have been making their own guns in their garages are in their and their houses for

538
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:57,760
Centuries, but well before they found in the United States so the value proposition between the two which one do you take?

539
00:42:58,200 --> 00:42:59,520
um I

540
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:05,420
Would absolutely if you if you couldn't shop the market and you had this Rock Island versus this

541
00:43:05,420 --> 00:43:10,940
Springfield TRP while the TRP is a fine firearm

542
00:43:10,940 --> 00:43:16,060
And it is a to me an absolute luxury item. I would absolutely

543
00:43:16,980 --> 00:43:18,980
Take the Rock Island Armory

544
00:43:19,460 --> 00:43:22,100
and take the thousand dollars that I saved and

545
00:43:23,460 --> 00:43:30,700
Buy a bunch of ammunition a bunch of training a bunch of something else holsters

546
00:43:30,700 --> 00:43:37,080
I mean all training training. I spent less than that difference going well

547
00:43:37,180 --> 00:43:44,060
Not when you include the flights and hotel and car no, but if you just include the cost of entry

548
00:43:44,780 --> 00:43:50,140
Multiple days attack on this year cost me less than that difference, but it doesn't mean there's not a place for it

549
00:43:50,140 --> 00:43:52,980
I don't know no if you have the ability

550
00:43:52,980 --> 00:44:00,860
And if if you know we're talking about this is frugal firearms, so we want you to have you know the best value frugal

551
00:44:00,860 --> 00:44:05,980
Frugal right I mean the best value is without a doubt the the

552
00:44:06,700 --> 00:44:12,620
1911 pattern from Rock Island Armory. It's a fine firearm. You know is it

553
00:44:13,340 --> 00:44:15,340
Is the extra thousand dollars?

554
00:44:16,300 --> 00:44:20,300
Worth it to step up to a really much nicer one I

555
00:44:20,300 --> 00:44:26,980
Mean you definitely can and if you've got the means to do so if you are if a thousand dollars doesn't mean much to you

556
00:44:27,500 --> 00:44:34,500
And you can do it. I mean maybe the answer is it depends. Yeah the answer technically is it depends if you have the means

557
00:44:35,220 --> 00:44:38,020
I mean, I want people to buy expensive things and

558
00:44:38,620 --> 00:44:43,380
And I want I very much want people to buy ridiculously expensive things

559
00:44:43,780 --> 00:44:46,700
I mean the perfect example. I give people is

560
00:44:46,700 --> 00:44:51,740
The flat panel TV sets remember when the flat panel TV sets hit the market there were

561
00:44:52,540 --> 00:44:57,700
$10,000 for a plasma display TV that would burn in

562
00:44:58,220 --> 00:45:01,740
Probably in two or three years, but somebody out there paid

563
00:45:02,260 --> 00:45:09,100
Ten thousand dollars to buy them and then we had LED and Q led and O led and all the new technologies that have come

564
00:45:09,100 --> 00:45:15,300
It's a commodity item. Yeah, I mean you can go in and buy a phenomenal television for like a hundred dollars

565
00:45:15,300 --> 00:45:17,300
I mean you can probably get it for three hundred

566
00:45:17,300 --> 00:45:24,620
That's right, but you never would have gotten there had somebody not stepped up and spent the ten thousand dollars to buy the flat panel

567
00:45:24,620 --> 00:45:28,100
Very good point. That's a very good point. You never would have gotten there

568
00:45:28,100 --> 00:45:33,100
So I want the people to buy the high-end expensive guns because yes

569
00:45:33,100 --> 00:45:38,780
There are things that they can do and improve and make things better and ultimately those are going to filter down

570
00:45:39,260 --> 00:45:42,300
To the people who are going to buy the expensive guns

571
00:45:42,300 --> 00:45:46,300
Are going to filter down to the people who are the mainstream?

572
00:45:46,380 --> 00:45:52,740
Joe's though with the working guys the the people who need a reliable and absolutely bet your life reliable handgun

573
00:45:53,220 --> 00:45:58,660
But do not want to spend the extra thousand dollars or frankly can't spend that extra thousand dollars

574
00:45:58,660 --> 00:46:04,300
They needed to feed their family, but they still want a reliable firearm the Rock Island

575
00:46:05,060 --> 00:46:07,500
Absolutely a great idea go ahead and buy one of those

576
00:46:07,500 --> 00:46:11,860
Not a problem at all or another pistol. I mean there are there are other choices

577
00:46:13,020 --> 00:46:17,380
For for home defense that type of firearm or carry firearms

578
00:46:17,380 --> 00:46:24,940
So what's another so going to the other end of the scale if you know you could carry that full-frame sure 45

579
00:46:25,460 --> 00:46:30,420
Depending on how you dress depending on your size depending on whether you're an environment

580
00:46:30,420 --> 00:46:36,260
That's either permissive or less permissive and by less permissive. We I do not mean illegal

581
00:46:36,260 --> 00:46:39,420
That is not what I meant what I meant is where?

582
00:46:40,020 --> 00:46:44,900
Carrying might put you in a bad light with the people that you regularly need to be around

583
00:46:44,900 --> 00:46:50,120
I mean if you're not supposed to carry I'm not going to advocate that you're but should you have the right to carry? Yes

584
00:46:50,580 --> 00:46:54,140
Am I going to advocate that you do something illegal? No, no, I'm not

585
00:46:54,740 --> 00:46:58,500
But there but even within those two polar opposites

586
00:46:58,500 --> 00:47:05,420
There's a gray area where carrying may or may not put you in a socially acceptable scenario

587
00:47:05,420 --> 00:47:10,260
Sure with other people you're around so there's another gun here that we have to review

588
00:47:10,820 --> 00:47:11,900
Mm-hmm

589
00:47:11,900 --> 00:47:13,900
Probably something at the other end of the scale

590
00:47:14,420 --> 00:47:16,900
This is a Ruger LCP

591
00:47:17,740 --> 00:47:21,620
P max light compact pistol. Yeah, it's a 380

592
00:47:21,620 --> 00:47:24,860
So does it have the quote stopping power?

593
00:47:24,860 --> 00:47:25,360
No

594
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:28,960
Stopping power of a 45 and remember that stopping power in

595
00:47:29,780 --> 00:47:31,780
handgun context is

596
00:47:32,380 --> 00:47:34,380
Maybe an overused term

597
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:38,660
Will it stop the fight a lot of times it will is it comparable to a rifle?

598
00:47:38,660 --> 00:47:44,540
It is not none of them are but is 380 enough with a well-placed shot to get the job done

599
00:47:44,940 --> 00:47:49,860
Yes, it is. Yes. It is. Is this the right option for people?

600
00:47:49,940 --> 00:47:53,620
well, if you're in that less permissive environment where

601
00:47:53,620 --> 00:47:56,620
Yes, you can legally carry but at the same time

602
00:47:57,740 --> 00:47:58,740
printing

603
00:47:58,740 --> 00:48:05,940
Or even the appearance or the opportunity for how you dress around the gun is going to be problematic

604
00:48:06,620 --> 00:48:11,660
Is this better than carrying nothing? I I would stipulate that it is. Oh, absolutely

605
00:48:11,940 --> 00:48:18,620
It's wearing a Viridian light now not a laser when you think of Viridian most of their products green lasers. Yeah green laser

606
00:48:18,620 --> 00:48:22,020
That's where they got the name, right? Yeah, but this is a Viridian

607
00:48:22,020 --> 00:48:24,020
reactor

608
00:48:24,060 --> 00:48:31,980
RTL light so why would I want the light on the gun? Why is that a good idea? Well the idea being that if this is

609
00:48:32,900 --> 00:48:37,940
Largely going to be used in a low light scenario, which is likely likely that

610
00:48:38,700 --> 00:48:43,060
This light when pulled from its specialized holster turns on

611
00:48:43,660 --> 00:48:46,060
Right. There's there is a power switch

612
00:48:46,060 --> 00:48:48,380
You can you can change the motor turn it on or off

613
00:48:48,380 --> 00:48:52,980
But it's actually recessed in a way that makes it kind of difficult to get to so

614
00:48:53,340 --> 00:49:00,160
The basic concept is that pull the gun out light comes on put the gun away light goes off

615
00:49:00,540 --> 00:49:04,820
very simple very reliable uses a magnetic switch on the inside and

616
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:06,660
What does that do for you?

617
00:49:06,660 --> 00:49:11,300
It helps you in low light situations to have positive ID of the target

618
00:49:11,460 --> 00:49:15,820
It allows you to ensure that they are in fact a threat

619
00:49:15,820 --> 00:49:21,060
It allows you to see other peripheral things that you may not otherwise be focused on

620
00:49:21,500 --> 00:49:27,260
Or have the ability to see and it puts you I believe and remember this is not a legal show

621
00:49:27,260 --> 00:49:31,140
I don't play a lawyer on TV as Ken has found of saying

622
00:49:32,020 --> 00:49:36,340
So this is not legal advice, but I believe that it puts you in a better legal position

623
00:49:37,460 --> 00:49:42,620
Because you can articulate that you had the light on the gun in order to be able to positively identify

624
00:49:42,620 --> 00:49:48,140
That the threat is in fact a valid threat and that you needed to take lethal force action against it

625
00:49:48,140 --> 00:49:50,780
I think that this is a great little package

626
00:49:51,780 --> 00:49:58,620
For sticking in a pocket or perhaps a specialized holster. I actually if you put it in your pocket the the Viridian light isn't a good choice

627
00:49:59,420 --> 00:50:02,260
Because it's it's meant to be turned on by the whole story

628
00:50:02,740 --> 00:50:08,760
But since they do make a specialized holster that they do sell with when you buy the light you get the holster that comes with it

629
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:15,300
They've solved that problem for you. And now you have something that has reasonable if not maybe a

630
00:50:15,900 --> 00:50:21,260
Great deal of power is is again better a lot better than nothing if you're a good shot

631
00:50:21,260 --> 00:50:28,300
And this is by the way a close-range weapon its sight radius is such its power is such that this is going to be short-range anyway

632
00:50:28,300 --> 00:50:33,980
But remember statistically that's where most of your engagements are going to be at very close range

633
00:50:34,100 --> 00:50:36,780
you would certainly be able to hit something with this and

634
00:50:36,780 --> 00:50:41,740
Coupled with the light while that is you know certainly not mandatory

635
00:50:42,060 --> 00:50:47,420
Gives you the ability to understand the target better, and there's a mode on this Viridian light

636
00:50:48,060 --> 00:50:52,860
strobe lights a strobe mode that is really really bright and

637
00:50:53,900 --> 00:51:00,520
Definitely would change the OODA loop of the person you're engaged with you if you don't know what an OODA loop is

638
00:51:00,580 --> 00:51:02,580
It's something that was actually

639
00:51:02,580 --> 00:51:09,440
Developed in the context of air combat, but it was observe orient decide act and

640
00:51:10,180 --> 00:51:17,780
much has been written about OODA loops and how criminals use that and what their decision-making process is and victim selection and

641
00:51:18,300 --> 00:51:22,980
I think we talked about this enough with Joe Dermisi when we were talking about the

642
00:51:23,540 --> 00:51:28,980
In episode 8 when we were talking about non-lethal use of pepper spray

643
00:51:28,980 --> 00:51:32,300
But if you can get inside the criminals OODA loop

644
00:51:33,020 --> 00:51:40,860
Maybe he decides you're no longer a valid target right and the display of this light alone might be enough to annoy someone

645
00:51:40,860 --> 00:51:46,420
Oh absolutely react to it look away do something else right and that might be enough advantage just to escape

646
00:51:47,020 --> 00:51:52,380
That's right and put it away and which is always what you want to do if you possibly can and then what do you do after?

647
00:51:52,380 --> 00:51:54,380
that you call

648
00:51:54,380 --> 00:52:00,920
9-1-1 why do you do that you should always be the first person to dial

649
00:52:01,580 --> 00:52:05,420
9-1-1 because who else will call the criminal will call 9-1-1

650
00:52:05,420 --> 00:52:12,620
Yeah, the criminal will call 9-1-1 and if they do they own the narrative they own the narrative the cops will come out

651
00:52:12,900 --> 00:52:17,620
And they'll say did you display a firearm and with a gun and you'll say well

652
00:52:17,620 --> 00:52:22,820
Yes, that guy over there was threatening me and that is now potentially aggregated assault

653
00:52:22,820 --> 00:52:27,940
Yes, which is a felony right and you always want to be the first guy

654
00:52:28,020 --> 00:52:35,020
Yep to call as soon as something happens you immediately at the first opportunity dial 9-1-1

655
00:52:35,020 --> 00:52:42,240
Yeah, and you begin to describe the situation what happened so police can come and respond yeah, so anyway

656
00:52:42,260 --> 00:52:47,840
But let's talk about LCP just itself. I mean LCP the light compact pistol

657
00:52:48,420 --> 00:52:51,580
Came out what oh, I don't know 15 or 18 years ago

658
00:52:51,580 --> 00:52:58,460
The original versions that came out that you see them around you see them in pawn shops and stuff a lot of them were

659
00:52:58,460 --> 00:53:04,100
Purchased by police officers for their off-duty weapon because they were maybe an angle gun

660
00:53:04,100 --> 00:53:10,220
I'm gonna do that as a secondary or third one they originally did not have a good

661
00:53:11,020 --> 00:53:16,180
reputation the first ones that came out the first set of maybe a thousand or maybe

662
00:53:16,180 --> 00:53:22,020
Two thousand pistols that came off the line you mean the you mean just to be clear you mean the LCP

663
00:53:22,340 --> 00:53:30,300
Not the LCP to nor the LCP correct so this is really I mean it's a derivative of the LCP to its kind of third generation

664
00:53:30,300 --> 00:53:36,140
This is a third generation of the LCP the original LCP that came out 15 or 18 years ago

665
00:53:36,420 --> 00:53:40,100
It stands for light compact pistol, but a lot of people had

666
00:53:40,860 --> 00:53:43,900
Had done had renamed it light crappy pistol

667
00:53:43,900 --> 00:53:48,100
police officers who would actually purchase it anyway if you see them in the

668
00:53:48,620 --> 00:53:50,620
pawn shops or something like that

669
00:53:51,300 --> 00:53:53,940
Just be aware of it. You know be aware of it

670
00:53:54,580 --> 00:53:59,700
LCP 2 which came out probably five or eight years after the LCP ones

671
00:54:00,980 --> 00:54:03,620
That did not have the problem. They got a lot better and

672
00:54:04,500 --> 00:54:10,020
The LCP max which is the most recent rendition is the one that we have here, but some of the additional things

673
00:54:10,020 --> 00:54:12,020
It's just got a slightly

674
00:54:12,020 --> 00:54:18,180
nominally fatter grip because it has now gone from a single stack pistol to a pistol which is

675
00:54:18,660 --> 00:54:25,300
Technically a staggered stack double stack and you're going to pick up. I think you're going from six plus one

676
00:54:26,100 --> 00:54:27,300
to

677
00:54:27,300 --> 00:54:34,500
Nine or ten plus one. It's ten plus one and you can actually get in in states that permit it you can get a 12 round

678
00:54:34,900 --> 00:54:39,940
Extended magazine for it right which makes a little less concealable, but then you have a little bit more purchase

679
00:54:39,940 --> 00:54:44,900
On the bottom of the gun for your for your you know third and pinky

680
00:54:45,620 --> 00:54:46,620
fingers

681
00:54:46,620 --> 00:54:47,900
All right, it does

682
00:54:47,900 --> 00:54:53,940
That was a dry fire by the way people it does make this odd clank when it fires it is a hammer fired weapon

683
00:54:54,420 --> 00:54:56,420
You know technically it's an internal hammer

684
00:54:57,060 --> 00:55:04,020
The other thing that I'll point out about this is something that you know my another gun that belongs to my son

685
00:55:04,500 --> 00:55:07,860
The original combination it has two nested

686
00:55:07,860 --> 00:55:10,660
recoil springs around the guide rod the

687
00:55:11,300 --> 00:55:14,900
Combination of those two springs from the factory is 11 pounds

688
00:55:15,460 --> 00:55:22,100
There's an upgrade that you can get that changes it to 13 pounds by only changing the outer spring

689
00:55:22,580 --> 00:55:25,620
So this gun is wearing that and we tried

690
00:55:26,180 --> 00:55:29,540
both the 11 and the 13 pound springs and found that there was a

691
00:55:30,100 --> 00:55:32,660
surprisingly noticeable at least to my hand a

692
00:55:32,660 --> 00:55:38,500
Surprisingly noticeable difference because the 11 pound spring allows the slide to slap back pretty hard

693
00:55:38,980 --> 00:55:43,140
And you think it's a 380 doesn't you know shouldn't be a controllability issue?

694
00:55:43,140 --> 00:55:49,860
But it does actually for a tiny little gun that doesn't have a lot of surface area on your hand hits pretty hard and then

695
00:55:50,580 --> 00:55:56,580
Changing it to the 13 pound spring. It's only two pounds different, but as a percentage. It's quite a bit more and

696
00:55:57,300 --> 00:55:59,300
I noticed it on the next shot

697
00:55:59,300 --> 00:56:03,300
On the first shot of the 13 pound spring. It's only and it's only 10 bucks

698
00:56:03,540 --> 00:56:09,540
Yeah to change the spring right so other than that they make stainless steel guide rods for it sure

699
00:56:10,180 --> 00:56:14,820
Which I don't necessarily think I need they make a takedown pin that has a larger head

700
00:56:15,300 --> 00:56:21,060
Because some people think there's a reliability issue with the head sharing off on on the takedown pin. I think that's

701
00:56:21,460 --> 00:56:25,060
Not likely but you know gun with very minimal modification

702
00:56:25,060 --> 00:56:30,340
I mean does have the best trigger no, um, it has a very long take up

703
00:56:30,900 --> 00:56:33,460
in the in the trigger stroke, but

704
00:56:34,180 --> 00:56:40,580
Again, I don't mind that the gun has no external safety. Most people are happy with that but for a pocket gun

705
00:56:41,220 --> 00:56:45,060
Arguably, maybe you would want a safety. It doesn't have it depends on your holster

706
00:56:45,060 --> 00:56:48,420
Well, you need I think your holster should cover the trigger if you're using a holster

707
00:56:48,420 --> 00:56:51,300
A lot of people are going to throw this in their pocket and call it good. Yeah

708
00:56:51,300 --> 00:56:57,460
I would tend not to do that. You know, it gets entangled with your keys or whatever the heck you have in the same pocket

709
00:56:57,460 --> 00:57:00,260
You know under that very disciplined if you do that

710
00:57:00,260 --> 00:57:04,900
The only other external control on the thing is the is the slide release right?

711
00:57:04,900 --> 00:57:11,300
Yeah, I would not recommend just tossing it in the pocket with keys and I wouldn't do that with any firearm and that includes a

712
00:57:11,780 --> 00:57:13,780
revolver like an lcr

713
00:57:14,660 --> 00:57:17,460
Or a small five shot revolver or a

714
00:57:17,460 --> 00:57:21,140
Small five shot revolver or any of the smith and wessels now

715
00:57:21,140 --> 00:57:23,860
I think you should if you're going to have a firearm

716
00:57:24,420 --> 00:57:30,820
Which effectively all internal safeties because these guns are built with internal safeties. They all are yes, but um

717
00:57:31,380 --> 00:57:35,940
I would protect the trigger assembly and there are some very minimalist

718
00:57:36,660 --> 00:57:38,660
kydex based

719
00:57:38,900 --> 00:57:42,020
Holsters that really just cover the trigger area. Yeah, right

720
00:57:42,020 --> 00:57:44,580
You can almost I would almost be okay with that

721
00:57:44,580 --> 00:57:50,100
But I would definitely even the type that you would tie like to your belt loop your belt loop pull the whole thing out

722
00:57:50,100 --> 00:57:52,100
It pops off behind. Yeah, exactly

723
00:57:52,660 --> 00:57:57,700
Right. So something like that would be fun, but I would definitely on any sort of a pocket gun

724
00:57:58,500 --> 00:58:05,940
Cover the trigger you want to keep that trigger covered because that's the trigger is what it causes this gun to fire

725
00:58:06,500 --> 00:58:12,260
As a firearm to function and you do not want to ever have an an ad an accidental discharge

726
00:58:12,260 --> 00:58:15,140
an ad an accidental discharge or

727
00:58:15,780 --> 00:58:21,940
Otherwise referred to as a negligent discharge correct and if you put it into your knee or your lower leg or something like that

728
00:58:21,940 --> 00:58:26,100
You're going to feel pretty negligent. Oh, yeah, and if you want to see what can happen

729
00:58:26,660 --> 00:58:30,820
There are some youtube videos out there. Oh hell. No, I ain't gonna see that. Okay

730
00:58:31,540 --> 00:58:36,580
But there are youtube videos out there people who who were shooting a 22

731
00:58:36,580 --> 00:58:46,180
Uh semi-auto and they were using their back pocket holster and they insert the the pistol into their back pocket and fire off around

732
00:58:46,340 --> 00:58:51,060
Yep, and the round hits them in the the calf and it's like oh, it's only a 22

733
00:58:51,860 --> 00:58:54,660
and the original guy thinks there's no big deal and

734
00:58:55,300 --> 00:58:58,500
You can almost lose a leg. You could yeah, well you could bleed out too. Yes

735
00:58:58,980 --> 00:59:02,420
You do not want to do that. You do not ever want to be shot or get shot

736
00:59:03,540 --> 00:59:04,660
so

737
00:59:04,660 --> 00:59:10,740
So, okay. Well anyway, so what do we have in upcoming shows? We're going to talk about at some point the

738
00:59:11,540 --> 00:59:12,980
the sky

739
00:59:12,980 --> 00:59:20,260
dvg-1 which is a I would call it a budget pistol, but has some interesting safety features and

740
00:59:20,980 --> 00:59:26,420
Shoots very very comparably to much more expensive guns. We've got a chance to try that

741
00:59:27,060 --> 00:59:33,220
We'll also be recording a show dedicated to atn and talking about their new x-site 5 line

742
00:59:33,220 --> 00:59:39,620
Uh, which we now have a sample of actually I own it on hand that we can review. Uh, it's an electronic site

743
00:59:40,180 --> 00:59:44,580
Not traditional glass. It's not a thermal site, but it does quite well at night

744
00:59:45,220 --> 00:59:51,700
And we'll get through the backlog of all these people like oh gee, how many of them are there?

745
00:59:51,780 --> 00:59:56,660
I mean this stack is a couple inches thick we'll be doing a feature show with ets

746
00:59:57,300 --> 01:00:00,660
they make some of the best polymer magazines available and

747
01:00:00,660 --> 01:00:07,940
And there's a lot coming up and we apologize again for being so late hosting this show life happens

748
01:00:08,180 --> 01:00:11,860
Yeah life happens, but we haven't given up not by a long shot

749
01:00:12,420 --> 01:00:17,700
And uh, we're probably going to have a lot more time to be recording future shows. So, you know pass the word

750
01:00:18,420 --> 01:00:21,060
Like and subscribe. I will point out something important

751
01:00:21,780 --> 01:00:25,400
We did change our feed to campsite.bio

752
01:00:26,820 --> 01:00:28,980
That used to be on link tree link tree

753
01:00:28,980 --> 01:00:31,640
Tree apparently doesn't believe in freedom

754
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:38,680
And they took our links down, uh, because they said that we had violated their community standards

755
01:00:39,240 --> 01:00:44,760
even though we don't promulgate anything on this show that is illegal or

756
01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:47,880
Outside the guaranteed freedoms that we have

757
01:00:48,440 --> 01:00:54,920
Uh, fortunately the campsite.bio people they have similar rules, but we're not running afoul of any of that

758
01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:58,520
So the new site to look at is https

759
01:00:59,080 --> 01:01:01,480
double slash campsite one word

760
01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:03,720
dot bio

761
01:01:03,720 --> 01:01:06,200
slash frugal firearms podcast again

762
01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:11,560
https double slash campsite.bio slash frugal firearms podcast

763
01:01:11,720 --> 01:01:17,080
And of course you can also find us and we'd prefer that you find us on your favorite podcast aggregator

764
01:01:17,560 --> 01:01:22,520
Whether that be itunes or any of the other uh, google or anything else?

765
01:01:22,520 --> 01:01:26,680
Uh, but like and subscribe leave comments there that helps us, uh get the show

766
01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:33,660
Out there and remember that we're also available on gmail frugal firearms podcast at gmail.com

767
01:01:34,440 --> 01:01:40,760
Again frugal firearms podcast gmail.com any concluding remarks ken? No, I think we've had a very nice

768
01:01:41,480 --> 01:01:47,400
Restart of what we're doing and look forward to talking to you all quite a bit more. So tell your friends about us

769
01:01:47,400 --> 01:01:53,400
Thank you. Thank you. Good night