You're listening to the Nick Amp Podcast, a podcast that dives into the lives and stories
of creatives, entrepreneurs, and outdoor enthusiasts.
My name is Nick Amp and I'm a filmmaker and photographer best known for documenting stories
in the mountains.
We sit down with guests to uncover where they get inspiration from, dig into their experiences
in the outdoor industry, and find a ton of actionable inspiration from their adventures
in life.
Welcome back to another episode.
This is Nick Amp.
Welcome back to another episode, this is episode 13.
Today we have someone who is based out of Ohio State and they're quite unique because
most photographers that you see on Instagram are out of the West Coast, Colorado, all these
big name areas.
And this guy has managed to make a name for himself with his unique photography style
by taking the time to do things that are creative that you might not be able to do anywhere
else.
And this guy, he's a brand marketer.
He does hunting photography.
He recently just joined the hunting community himself.
So it's been really awesome to watch him grow in that aspect.
And without further ado, we have Jack Westerheide, also known as Jack West on Instagram.
Jack, how you doing man?
Yeah, good Nick.
Thanks for having me on.
Appreciate it, man.
Well, to start it off, man, just give us a brief rundown of how you got here and what
your story is in terms of picking up a camera, getting into hunting, things like that.
Yeah, for sure.
So as you mentioned, I am Midwest born and raised.
I'm based in just outside of Columbus, Ohio.
I graduated from the Ohio State University.
I would say that I've always had that creative bone in my body.
So I would say I first started photography back on a family vacation, I think this was
probably, I don't know, 2010.
And we were lucky to go on a Mediterranean cruise with my parents, my grandparents.
So my grandma gave me a little cannon point and shoot and said, hey, we're going on this
fantastic trip.
That was my first time out of the country.
And she's like, take this camera and just take a lot of cool pictures.
So that's what really started my exploration into photography was with that little cannon
point and shoot.
Kept up with it for a while, did a little bit of photography through high school, but
didn't really take it that seriously.
Got to college at Ohio State and was actually in the media marketing and communications
scholars program at Ohio State.
So that kind of gave me a good background into initial strategy of marketing and thought
that that's maybe something I wanted to pursue as a career later down the road.
Ended up joining, applied for a, was looking for kind of like an internship or a job in
my sophomore year of college at Ohio State.
Saw an opening at the student newspaper at Ohio State called The Lanter, applied for
that job, got it.
And that turned into be kind of the coolest, most shining accomplishment of everything
that I did in my undergrad career at Ohio State.
Just an absolutely fantastic experience, worked there for three years until graduation, held
a couple of different roles.
I was the social media editor, the photography editor, and then ended up being the managing
editor for design.
So laying out the newspaper and then incorporating kind of all the stuff that I had done in my
previous two roles, both in photography and social media, copywriting, all that stuff.
That was a super great experience.
I learned a lot about photography during my time at The Lanter.
Got to travel with the Ohio State football and basketball teams.
Oh, that's awesome.
On the road to them getting into sports photography, which Ohio State, love them or hate them,
they're a good sports team.
So got to go to some big games and be on the sideline of the field and back sage access
to a lot of music events as well on campus and in Columbus, Ohio.
So yeah, that's where I really say I would cut my teeth with photography and also just
design in general and getting a chance to lay out the print editions of the newspaper.
After college, I continued on with an internship that I had had at Abercrombie and Fitch corporate.
And so I worked there for a couple of years after college.
I had a couple of different roles there, international heat commerce, but mostly in operations.
So brand store operations for all of our stores around the world.
That was a really cool experience, but didn't really get to do a whole lot of creative work
in that role.
Stuck with that through kind of COVID and then in 20 last year.
So 2022 actually was through a friend of a friend on Instagram where he posted a, we're
hiring post from Muddy Shutter Media.
And I checked it out and didn't never heard of them before.
Didn't realize that their headquarters were in Cleveland, Ohio, which is two and a half
hours north of me in Columbus.
So kind of on a set of kind of a cold email to the email they had listed in that hiring
post and I was hired at Muddy Shutter Media last February.
So I've been there for about a year.
I'm currently the associate marketing director at Muddy Shutter Media.
And it's only been a year, but it feels like it's been 10 years based on our, all the project
we've worked on and it's been, you know, the best child of my career so far.
So that brings me to today.
Yeah, first off, a lot can happen in one year.
And when you're loving what you're doing, you tend to do more of what you're doing because
you love it.
So then it just feels like, wow, I really did all of that in just this one year.
But to dive into your earlier days of picking up a camera back when you were in high school
in that Canon point and shoot, were you just taking photos of everything that you could?
Was it more of on family trips?
How did that go?
Yeah, I mean, it definitely started on family vacations and kind of went from there.
It's like, even when we got back from that vacation, kept the camera and kept trying
to learn new things about, you know, how to take photography.
And that's the one thing that stuck with me is after we got back from that trip and we're
kind of reviewing the pictures, everyone said, oh, like, you have an eye, you have an eye
for photography.
They didn't really know what that meant.
But looking back on that, I feel like it's kind of that, that's more, a similar eye is
like it goes beyond taking pictures.
I would describe it as taking pictures that everyone else takes.
And it's like, you're at some type of famous landmark or an event that are a place that
now that we are all on Instagram, it's like, I've seen this picture before.
I'm not going to take that picture.
I'm going to try to do something different, whether that's taking a different angle or
using elements in the foreground or the background to kind of make your picture of what is honestly
a very common picture different and specific to you.
So that's kind of what I would say I focused on a lot in my photography development was
trying to have that different eye and take pictures that, you know, maybe have a popular
thing.
But when you see that picture, you can kind of tell that either it's my picture or it
stands out from that same picture that maybe a lot of other people have taken.
You know, one thing I was mentioning to my friend was you can tell a Jack West photo
from a mile away just by your unique style.
Dude, that means so much, honestly.
So it's been years, years in the making.
Very well, man.
And to move forward with that, you've worked at the lantern.
You were an editor, a social media, did copywriting, and you say this helped you develop your photography
skills in a more advanced way.
I mean, that's sports photography, concerts, things like that.
And now you do more outdoors photography.
How did that translate over to the outdoors photography?
What skills did you take from the lantern to further on now?
Yeah, that's a great question.
And I'd say like, you know, I'm definitely I would still describe myself as more of an
outdoor landscape lifestyle, you know, obviously hunting, fishing, all that.
But you know, all in the outdoor space, like I enjoy pretty much any type of outdoor recreational
activity.
But the skills that I learned at the lantern, I would say that, you know, low light concert
photography, sports photography, those translate extremely, extremely well to wildlife photography
and outdoor photography just because in a lot of those sections, just like when you're
in the corner of an Enzo or something and someone's throwing up a Hail Mary touchdown,
you only get one chance to get that photo.
And it's not you can't like if you miss the photo, you can't go out to the team and be
like, hey, can you guys do that again?
Like, and that's kind of a similar similar vibe when you're on a hunt or something.
That's like you get one chance to get that shot.
And if you don't get it, you don't get it.
So it's kind of like being making sure that you have all your settings dialed, you know,
kind of you can anticipate if something is about to go down.
And if you can anticipate when something's about to go down, being ready to basically
get the shot in any type of situation.
So the lantern was definitely a great learning experience and fast action, you know, a lot
of times low light situations.
And I still use a lot of those things that I learned in those days to the type of photography
and the trips that I go on now.
That sure translates perfectly.
I just had an animal documentary filmmaker on last week.
He was talking about how filming wildlife is definitely unique because all the shots
he got from a certain sequence was not all from the same day.
And he said that he just had to be there and be ready to get that one shot that they were
going to do something cool or interesting.
So that makes a lot of sense when you say catch the shot in the end zone.
Now you're doing hunting, fishing.
If that fish comes out of the water, you want to get that shot, right?
That's awesome, man.
I mean, that just, if anyone's listening, you want to get into wildlife or sports.
They kind of work together skills wise.
So what does a typical day for you look like working with a media company?
Are you editing or taking photos the whole time, branding SEO?
Yeah, that is a great question.
Probably all of you above, but my role has definitely changed a lot since I joined the
MSM team last year.
So when I came on, I was a creative content producer.
And it's a great title because that's pretty much what I did.
I just made things, whether that was like an Instagram post or a reel or editing a small
short form piece of content, even down to figuring out what kind of the posting strategy
and schedule was for that specific piece.
So I would say that my role now has kind of evolved into more of that marketing strategy,
business development role, client relations, kind of building a custom marketing strategy
with them based on whatever their business objectives are.
And that's kind of a conversation that I've had with a lot of people.
And it's like that side, that business strategy side, I would consider just as much of a creative
process as the actual photography, video, design process.
Just because it takes creativity to kind of create a custom plan for a company to achieve
a specific goal.
You're still using that creative brain to look at what other people do, but then put
your own spin on it.
And then obviously I'm working with our super talented team of creatives and media production
guys, post-production wizards, to once we can create that concept of what we want to
do, working with them to develop the content, cut it, edit it, shoot it, and then figuring
out a way to best showcase it to the world.
So I was looking at the Muddy Shutter Media's Instagram page and you guys do serve some
outdoors companies, right?
So what's that experience like being able to brand and make this strategy for these
outdoors companies, something that you love to do?
What goes through your budget process when you're trying to help someone out like that?
Yeah.
Yeah, it's really cool.
And I feel like everyone on the team, it's kind of like a common thread.
Some of us came from hunting backgrounds, some of us didn't.
Then some of us can currently hunt and some of us do not.
So it's a great mix of people, but I would say that the common thread across the team
is everyone does love to be outside.
We've got kayakers, you've got hikers, you've got people who are into overlanding, camping,
then we've got hunters and fishermen and stuff.
But that common thread is everyone likes being outside.
So when we get to work with a client that's an outdoor brand or they provide a product
or a service that is primarily targeted towards people who are in the outdoor industry, that's
really where we can run wild a little bit because we kind of have that background knowledge
of the customer base because in most times we are the customer base.
So getting to help a brand develop a strategy that is almost tailored to you in a sense,
it's kind of cool.
Just like if you were to go to your favorite brands and say, hey, I'm this person, I'm a
customer and this is what I think you should do.
Not many of us get that opportunity.
So us on the opposite side of that, an agency setting, getting to kind of provide that feedback
and give ideas to some of our favorite companies, it's really fun.
That's unique, man.
That's a dream job if you ask me.
I worked at an agency and we served a lot of different companies, none of them outdoors.
So I can imagine what you're doing is just amazing.
That's the cool thing too.
So we work with the full spectrum.
In our portfolio right now, we've got outdoor clients.
We are big into the music industry, so we've shot music videos, concert recaps, events.
We're getting into sports.
We're actually getting ready to go shoot another piece with a pretty major sports retailer.
Can't release it right now, but it'll be released probably in a couple of months.
But yeah, it's cool for us to be able to work with so many different people in so many different
industries that you can kind of pull things that you wouldn't say, for example, we do
an outdoor shoot and then pulling that concept into a retail setting.
For example, it's like being able to cross, pull ideas across industries.
And that's kind of a cool thing for us as well.
So being able to work with such a broad spectrum of clients and companies and products.
That's awesome, man.
So transitioning to hunting and photography, how did you get into hunting exactly?
Like where did this journey start?
Because two years ago, right, is when you started this journey.
Yep, that is correct.
You did your research learning.
But yeah, so I started, definitely did not have a traditional, what people would consider
to be a traditional hunting lineage.
So when you look at the hunting tradition in culture in America, usually it's passed
down from one generation to the next.
And it's like you have someone in your family or like a close personal friend to kind of
shows you the rope when you're a young kid, gets you out there.
And then you kind of develop as you age into like the full hunter.
Whereas me, like I grew up outdoors, mostly like hiking, camping.
Like for instance, my dad and I went on like a week long rafting trip down the Colorado
River.
So it's like, I was not a stranger to spending time outside, but it was, I didn't really
ever definitely, I didn't ever do it.
I did not grow up hunting.
I knew a couple of people that hunted, but it just really wasn't a thing that anyone
in my immediate circle did.
So it was never something that I considered doing.
And so fast forward to COVID, I was kind of like everyone else, I need to like get outside.
And I didn't really know what I was going to do, what was going to be that driving factor.
And you know, obviously I love to hike and stuff, but it's not like you don't wake up
and you're like, oh, I know you do because you go on your sunset and sunrise journey.
But I didn't wake up and say, yeah, I'm freaking going to go hiking.
And so I needed some type of like new activity or something.
It's like, I want to wake up every day and just like know that that's what I'm going
to do.
So I randomly was scrolling on Netflix and came across Steven Ronello, who he's the founder
of MeatEater, which I don't know if anyone's ever watched the MeatEater show on Netflix,
which is now on their own website.
But before he started MeatEater, he did a documentary called Stars in the Sky.
And I watched that documentary and that was really like, that was the spark that ignited
my interest in hunting.
And it was really an out of the box perspective that I had never really seen before coming
from like someone who was a hunter.
Because growing up in central Ohio, it's like, obviously there's a huge population of hunters
around me, but it's like more so on like I didn't really know why they were doing it.
And so having insight into the history of hunting in America, what it means to these
people, like how they go about it, the culture, connection with wildlife, connection with
the outdoors, connection with your community.
And it was just a super cool perspective that I had never considered before.
So after watching that, definitely started to take steps to learn more about hunting.
Took my hunter education course, started scouting public land, which public land in itself is
a cool aspect that I feel like hunters know a lot about just as much as people spend a
lot of time in national parks and stuff out in our region of the Midwest.
We don't have as many of those grand national parks that we can go to quickly and easily
access.
So figuring out where your public land access is, whether that's state parks or local municipalities
or anywhere that you can go and basically hunt for free pretty much and spend time outdoors
without anyone bothering you.
So yeah, that's kind of where I started during COVID and this is where we've ended up.
That's amazing.
So to dive a little bit deeper into hunting, how did you find a crowd of people to start
going hunting with?
I mean, you said that your immediate circle wasn't hunters.
How do you reach out to people and start getting into that circle?
So yeah, that's an excellent question.
And kind of getting into it is I found a family friend that I'd known for a long time that
I knew was into hunting and kind of reached out to him first as to kind of use as a resource.
So I started getting ready for hunting season.
My first hunting season would have been spring turkey season here in Ohio, which is April
to May.
So this was two years ago.
That was going to be my first season.
Started getting kind of prepped for it in that late fall, winter, and then was really
geared up towards it starting in like that March, April timeframe.
So I got with him, took the full hunter education course, kind of learned as much about turkey
hunting as I could, both from watching YouTube videos and just, I don't know, reading, like
looking at maps.
I mean, that's the thing about hunting is you never can, you're always learning about
something new, whether it's where you're going, what species you're going after, what's like
the kind of behavior of a wild turkey, calling techniques, where you need to be.
With turkeys, you don't necessarily have to worry as much about wind and stuff, but you
got to worry about where you're sitting in relationship to where they're roosting.
So there's, I'm still learning a ton about hunting in general, but especially turkey
hunting.
I would say that that's where I started with YouTube videos and then using this family
friend as kind of a reference.
And then once you get out there, you start meeting people very quickly in the hunting
community.
Hunting buddies has always kind of been a key term and it really is true.
It's like you'll go hunting with one person, you'll meet another person on that hunt, and
then you kind of start building your network that way.
And then once I joined MSM last year, I just opened my network up to a whole larger group
of hunters and experts and the people we work with, clients.
And yeah, last year was a huge learning year for me.
Honestly, just exponentially learned more about hunting in general, just by going on
trips, documenting and filming them, photography, to then bringing those skills back from those
work trips back to my own personal hunting experience.
So Jack, you were a hunter and you take photos also of hunting experiences and trips.
Are you taking photos as a photographer sometimes and sometimes you're only a hunter or are
you doing both when you're out there?
Yeah.
So that's another great question is, I would say my first year, because I got into hunting
through media, I got into it through photography, through video, I felt like that's always the
priority that I set when I was out hunting.
So I was like, when I was hunting, probably not what I should have done, but I was focusing
more on the media aspect to try to capture my own hunts and quickly learn that you cannot
do that.
So the first successful turkey hunt I was ever on, I had my A&ED on a 70 to 200 lads
on a monopod and it had like little tripod feet on the bottom of the monopod, but obviously
it was not going to stand on its own.
So I had it propped up kind of in between, it was leaning against my leg, pointed in
the direction that we knew the turkeys were going to come from and we could hear them
scratching.
We knew they were coming close.
And then all of a sudden gust of wind came and knocked it over, knocked the camera over.
And I was like, the guy I was with was like, do not move.
And I was like, okay, I'm not going to move because these turkeys are probably within 20,
25 yards of us right now.
And they are super aware to sound, any movement at all will freak a turkey out.
So basically let it sit, it was still recording and it was hilarious because I got the whole
encounter on audio, but obviously the video was just in a pile of leaves.
So, but that was really like a pivotal moment in my hunting slash media career was like,
there's a time to hunt and there's a time to film.
And usually the two of them, you can't, it's very rare to find someone who can do both
well.
You're either too worried about making sure you're getting the shot and you're not focused
on the actual hunting aspect or vice versa.
So it's when I go out now, I'm either hunting or I'm filming.
I'm not really doing both.
Is there a certain etiquette when you're taking photos or videos of hunters?
Is there certain things that you have to follow that are like not rude to the other hunters
when they're focused?
Could you walk us through how you navigate through that?
Yeah.
I mean, especially obviously this is no surprise to people, but in most cases hunting does
involve some type of what we would consider to be a, you know, either a firearm or a bow
and arrow or something.
So there's some dangerous equipment involved in hunting.
So you always got to be conscious of that, making sure that you're not standing in anyone's
like firing lanes or, you know, if you do have a firearm yourself, if I'm carrying one,
like making sure that everything is good to go there with safeties and making sure that
that's kind of the top priority when you're out there.
The people have gotten to the field and you are in the field as well.
You got to make sure that that's always top of mind.
But in terms of etiquette, I would say that it varies from pursuit to pursuit.
So turkey hunting, for example, any movement at all, you know, any, you can't really talk
and you just got to be dialed.
So it's like, what I usually do is like I'll be full camouflage.
I'll have, you know, my camera's in full camouflage.
And usually the, I've even cut like custom gloves where my entire hand on my camera will
be covered, but I'll cut a thumb hole so I can still, you know, like do settings and
stuff on the background of the camera.
But you got to be super conscious about any quick movements.
Like you can't, it's not like a, oh, I got to like, you know, move stuff around to get
this.
It's like, you got to be, any movement you make, you got to do it in like milliseconds,
super slow motion, like no sound, no anything.
But then there are other hunts like waterfowl hunting where you can kind of be a little
more casual, you know, you kind of be sitting in the blind with guys talking, laughing,
you know, a lot of people who cook food in the blind.
So it's kind of situational.
And as someone who is still learning a lot about hunting myself, I feel like I'm doing
a good job at maintaining that etiquette across different, you know, hunting trips to make
sure that I'm not detracting from anyone else's hunt by being there documenting photos or
video.
All the guys in my church, they go hunting a lot and they take it very serious.
And so I couldn't imagine other hunters feelings being photographed.
That's why I was asking you, is there etiquette?
And so for you, it's a situational thing.
Has there ever been any bad experiences when taking photos of other hunters?
I wouldn't say there's been any bad experiences.
There's definitely like, there's the experience of, you know, if we're doing something for
a client project, hunting is a weird thing because, you know, in order to capture marketing
assets for hunting, everyone thinks that you need to actually like be successful on your
hunt.
And in our mind, like that's not always the case.
Like a large part of hunting for us is the experience of being out there.
And that's honestly what sells people on if we're trying to market a specific product
or a service is the experience that you have over the course of your entire trip and not
just that one split second moment where you are either successful or not successful on
your hunt.
And I mean, some people also, if we're hiring a guide or hiring a hunting influencer to
kind of be like the main subject of a specific project, like sometimes they could take it
to, they're too hard on themselves if they, you know, aren't able to be successful in
their hunt.
But, you know, for us, it's like we get just as much, you know, good content and honestly
enjoyment out of being out there regardless of how the hunt actually ends up.
So I wouldn't say there's been any ever a bad situation, but sometimes, I mean, it's
a very, hunting is a very mental thing as well.
So right.
I mean, I listened to Cameron Haynes and he was talking about his experiences when he
doesn't come back with a hunt, how some may view that as disrespectful by not coming back
with your tag.
Yeah.
What's he said not respectful by not coming back with your tag?
He shot the deer.
He shot the deer or it was a buck and then he shot it, but didn't kill it.
And he was on reservation land.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
So obviously it's never, never ideal.
And that's probably the hardest mentally that is, I won't even try without it.
That is the hardest thing about hunting, but that's also what goes into everyone's, everyone
who's a responsible hunter puts in prep work year round, like even during the season, out
of season, pre-season, after season, like to make sure that your gear, your skills are
as dialed as they can be.
So the chances of doing that when you're out in the field are as small as possible.
Does that solve the problem every time?
No.
But as hunters, it's like, that's something that we are well aware of going into every
single season and every single encounter with wildlife is making sure we do our part the
entire, every other day in the year, other than that day, to make sure that we're being
respectful of what we're doing and to basically do our job to make sure that, you know, having
a bad shot doesn't happen.
Jack, what are some common myths in the hunting industry that people may not know?
I would say the most common myth is the bat is kind of what we were just talking about
with taking the life of an animal.
And I feel like that's what always comes back to, you know, whether you agree with hunting
or disagree with hunting, that's the key, the key hot button issue is how are you okay
with taking the life?
And I would say there's so much more than that.
And any hunter, at least the hunters that I align myself with and the hunters that I
know, like that's not how we picture things.
And it's more so about, you know, conservation and how many animals can your specific area
hold?
What does the population look like in your area?
You know, are there, what's the predator issue look like?
And I feel like there's so many things behind the scenes that just get left behind the scenes
because everyone is so clearly focused on taking the life of an animal.
So for me, that's kind of, that was what that started in the sky documentary, which I highly
recommend it's on Netflix to anyone who is interested in hunting or wants to learn more
about why hunters go out there and do what we do.
I highly recommend watching that documentary.
But I would say of all the myths, it's not about, you know, taking the life of an animal,
it's more about making sure that that animal's population is controlled, making sure that
it's, you know, what we're doing is benefiting the environments that we go and hunt in.
And it also goes all the way back down to like the financial aspect of, you know, when
you look at conservation, you know, the most money being funneled into wildlife and habitat
management is coming from people who are hunters and fishermen.
The money we spend on all the gear and equipment that we buy, a percentage of that goes straight
back into wildlife and habitat conservation.
So that's something that I feel like also gets overlooked because people are so concerned
with that hot button issue of the main objective of hunting and having a successful hunt.
So understanding, for my understanding that sometimes there is an areas in the forest,
desert, river, it's that there can be too much of an animal because there's a lack of
predators.
So then these hunters come in and they lower the population of, let's just say the deer.
And so then that environment ecosystem of the grass, the trees, everything like that
can thrive more.
And are those experiences or topics that you guys discuss amongst your circle of hunters?
Yeah.
And I mean, that would be just one situation.
There's obviously, there's the opposite of that.
So you've got situations out in North America where you've got, you know, sometimes too
many predators or you've got, you know, too many deer or something.
So I know in Ohio specifically, like our deer population is kind of, I don't want to say
it's out of control, but our deer density here is insane.
So like when I drank, when I actually counted a couple of weeks ago, when I made my two
hour drive from Columbus, Ohio to Cleveland, Ohio, there were 27 deer dead on the side
of the road.
Oh wow.
And when you think about that and it's like, there's, yeah, there's not enough space for
them given their population size.
And so it's like with hunters, we can go in and help manage that population.
And not only all that food is also being, it's not going to waste basically by sitting
on the side of the road.
So when a hunter harvests a deer, we take it home, we use every piece of that deer.
And then you've also got, you know, systems that are set up by the Department of Natural
Resources so people can get tags and then provide that meat to shelters or other charitable
organizations that then provide that food to people who maybe can't afford that food.
So there's a whole top to bottom funnel down of hunting, whether it's from a conservation
aspect, from a community aspect, to a financial aspect that people just don't, they're not
aware of because when you look at the number of hunters in the United States over the last
hundred years, it's just a drop off.
So it's just not, it's outcome of knowledge as much as it used to be.
And that's kind of the interesting idea is like hunting now, it seems like it's abnormal,
but when you look at, you know, humans as a whole, it's abnormal not to hunt, if that
makes sense.
And that's ripped straight from that Stars in the Sky documentary and Cedar and L.I.
won't take credit for that, but it's, we've been hunting as a human species for much longer
than we've not been hunting, if that makes sense.
I didn't realize how deep the community of hunters went in terms of hunting, harvesting
the animal and giving that food source to someone who may not be able to afford the
food.
I mean, that's a big deal.
People don't talk about that.
At least I haven't heard about that part.
I know about the part that hunters are conservationist, but I didn't know about the part that they're
helping give back in those ways to people.
Yeah, absolutely.
And then like, especially in the Midwest, where we just have huge populations of deer,
that's a huge thing.
It's like homeless shelters in my community are serving venison year round because hunters
are bringing in deer, they're butchering it, you know, people are making furniture and
sure.
They're using deer heights to then use for upholstery on furniture and stuff like that.
So we're literally using the deer from head to tail year round around here, just based
on how many deer we have.
So could you walk us through a favorite experience, either as a photographer or a hunter while
you were out there in the Ohio forests or wetlands?
What was the experience that you just remember the most?
Yeah, that's the thing is being from Ohio, I feel like Ohio has a weird reputation outside
of Ohio, if that makes sense.
So we're very much aware of all the memes and jokes and whatever about being from Ohio.
I'm kind of proud to be from Ohio.
I'm a true Buckeye for life.
But it's a cool state and I feel like it sometimes gets a bad rap.
But we've got a lot of cool stuff to offer.
If you go down to southern Ohio, it's very much in line with what you're the kind of
landscape and environment you're getting in West Virginia or Kentucky with the mountainous
rolling hills.
When you go up to, we've got Lake Erie to our north and we've got the full coastline
and kind of that beach and we have a lot of waterfowl action up there.
Then as you head out to the western part of the state, it's kind of that Great Plains type,
very agriculture heavy.
So we've really got a lot of different areas inside the state of Ohio and there's a lot
of cool stuff to do here that I feel like people don't necessarily know about.
It's definitely not as Instagram worthy as the western national parks and everything
that I see a lot of the people that I follow on Instagram are out doing with easy access.
But I feel like it's almost being from an area that doesn't have this outright just
majestic beauty.
Not to say that Ohio doesn't have majestic beauty, but it almost makes you work a little
bit harder to make Ohio look as cool as other states in the United States.
Could you share with us what your favorite or go to set up is when you're going out there
hunting?
I know you have to have a specific type of gear.
I know I watched one of your YouTube videos.
You even had a crane for one of your videos.
Yeah.
I would say my go to camera body is always going to be my Canon R5.
And then lens selection is usually, usually depends on the hunt.
I would say the two, I guess the three lenses that I bring most often are going to be a
50 millimeter, a 24 to 105, and then a 70 to 200.
Just to kind of capture each one of those stages of the hunt kind of.
So the 50 millimeter is going to capture all those close details, portrait shots, gear.
I like to focus on people's hands a lot when they're hunting, either with what they're
holding or some kind of action they're doing, whether it's calling.
The 24 to 105 is usually a great all around lens, whether I need to get close up shots
or I can also do some landscape stuff with that one.
And then the 70 to 200 is great for reaching out to pick up some piece of wildlife out
in the distance or a hunter and out, you know, farther away.
So I would say for the most part I'm usually handheld, but for turkey season I've got a
monopod that I like using.
And yeah, that's kind of the setup.
And then draping usually some type of camo pattern over top of the camera, matching that
to whatever season you're in, whether that's a bright green early spring pattern or more
so that tan khaki color for late season waterfowl or even white if you're hunting in the snow.
So you really have to camouflage your camera gear as well.
Can they really see that?
Yep.
Turkeys especially can.
The turkeys are super visual, like to the point where, like I mentioned earlier, any
type of movement at all will set a turkey off.
So yeah, definitely for turkeys.
For waterfowl you don't have to camouflage as much because usually you are camouflaged
as a whole inside of your blind.
For big game and whitetail it kind of depends on the situation.
If you're more like run and gun out chasing an animal, you definitely don't want to be
like...
I feel like you can get away with not camouflaging stuff just because you're moving more quickly
doesn't make that much of a difference.
But if you're more in a set location and kind of sitting for long amounts of time, it's
helpful to be camouflaged in just to keep that consistency and they don't really recognize
anything if they're coming into your area.
Awesome.
So I mean, you were talking earlier about how Ohio may not be the most popular beautiful
place by Instagram's point of view.
How do you personally, Jack West, stay inspired living in Ohio?
Yeah.
I think honestly by following a lot of other accounts like Unic and seeing what other people
are doing across the US and I feel like we're kind of running in similar circles and we
follow and interact with on social media.
So it's cool to see what other people are doing and it's like, is that something that
I could maybe put my own spin on here in Ohio or vice versa is like, if what I'm doing here
is our way that I can provide a little creative boost or inspiration to someone who's maybe
living in a different part of the country.
I take a lot of inspiration from people and other type of industries and sports and like
I love the whole like action sports, snowboarding, that stuff as well.
So is there any opportunities for me to like bring that stuff in?
Obviously I love landscape photography.
It's kind of hard around me because I don't really have any, I don't know, cool landscape
near me.
I usually have to drive a little bit if I want to even get to like a waterfall or a
lake or something.
So that's the thing is it's sometimes hard to make cornfields look cool all the time,
but it's possible.
Then I feel like it's, if you do do it correctly, you can provide a little bit of a creative
spark to someone who's maybe not as well versed in cornfield photography as I am.
So right, but in your photos, at least I like to think that a lot of other people do this
too.
I dissect a photo when I look at it and I try to see if there's a story told and you,
you live in Ohio, you realized, okay, I don't live in this crazy picturesque place.
So you transformed it into telling more tight knit stories, whether it's a hunt, it's a
fishing trip, it's driving in the mud.
When did you make that transition to start telling more stories through your photos versus
just taking that grand landscape?
Yeah, that's a great question.
I would say once I started dialing in my editing style, kind of, which, I mean, I grew up in
the golden age of like Peter McKinnon.
So I would say that Peter's always going to be my like, now I want influence on how I
like developed my, not only my editing style, but life photography style as well.
Which I, that should come as no surprise to anyone who's ever scrolled through my feed.
It's very dark, grainy, very moody.
I like to take a lot of pictures of Ford Raptors.
So yeah, I feel like once I started dialing that in and obviously he's put on a lot of
content on telling a story through your photography and the whole Pete's pirate life theme.
And I don't know, that just really spoke to me as a creative person.
And it's kind of cool.
I mean, he's from Ontario, Canada.
So that's obviously a super cool place, but it's definitely not like a, I don't know,
like a majestic place like we were talking about.
He's not living in the mountains or like that.
So I mean, he has to work as well to make cool creative content when he's at home in
Ontario.
So yeah, it's kind of just a, it's a little extra challenge.
And I feel like if I can tell a story of something that may not seem like it's a, I don't know,
like I'm, I don't know how to really describe this, but telling a story, even if it's what
someone puts you consider to be like a boring story and making a boring story look cool,
honestly.
So every time I talk to people, when they complain to me that they don't live in a cool
place, I literally reference you every single time because you're the first person that
comes to mind who leaves no excuse is for taking boring photos in a boring place.
Could you help people who are listening, uh, understand better how to tell a story more
effectively and maybe they live in a non-beautiful place.
How can you improve your storytelling skills?
Yeah, no, I mean, that's a, that's an honor, honestly.
So and I'll, I'll admit, like I definitely went through the phase of like, Oh my God,
I gotta, I gotta get out of here.
I gotta get out of Ohio.
It's so boring.
And I feel like even when you go on social media and people talk about Ohio, they're
like, no, thankfully I got out of there.
I'm so happy to not live in Ohio anymore, but it's like, I feel like all these, you
know, the flyover States and the Midwest and stuff, they get a bad rap because every creative
person leaves and they go somewhere else and they kind of, you know, go to where they think
they can be more creative.
It's like, so this side of Ohio and the Midwest and all the other States where you don't hear
about any creative people that are coming from me, it's because everyone left and no
one's here to kind of tell the story and showcase what these States have to offer.
So I mean, with me, it's like, I'm going to stick around here.
And when you look at what other people are posting, it's, you know, are they posting?
Yeah, they have a cool background, but just replace, you know, mountains with a forest
or replace mountains with, you know, a beach on one of the great lakes or, you know, whatever
is unique to where you are at and you're a part of the world.
You know, make it, make it cool, make it interesting.
So whether that's through a different editing style, whether you want to get like props
involved.
I know a lot of people like have started doing like mirrors and you know, lighting techniques
and all that stuff has been super popular over the last couple of years on social media.
But for me, it's kind of the editing style and telling a story about a, even if it's
a super specific event, like a raccoon crawling on a tree towards you or something like, I
don't know, how can you make, you know, what outward looking in seems like a not that interesting
thing.
Be creative and turn it into a story.
Perfect transition to your editing style though.
That answers my question perfectly.
But to transition to your editing style, why did you decide to stick with one style?
A lot of artists seem to be sporadic.
Like they change a lot.
They get inspiration based on how they're feeling.
You choose to stay the same color style through in all the way through.
Yeah.
Now I definitely think that having that, I don't know, I've talked about it a lot on
like one, my own Instagram, but that cohesive style, that's a lot of what we talked about
with other clients and stuff is if you can develop kind of like what you said where it's
like when you look at my Instagram, you can tell that it came from me.
Like that's kind of our goal with clients as well.
And developing like a brand identity that's super strong to increase, you know, recognition
in the community and having people able to tell where something came from with audio
and actually saying like, yeah, this is who posted this or this is who edited it.
Yeah, I don't know.
What was the second half of your question there?
Why you chose to stick with one style of your photography?
Yeah.
I guess so kind of to go back to that, I guess like it almost helps me get out.
Like when I was editing each photo differently, you almost have too many options to choose
from and that can kind of lead to almost like a creative rut almost when you get to a point
where you're not sure exactly how you want to edit something.
Whereas now that I have this style, I kind of know going in almost like garg rails of
like where I want to go with it.
And it allows me to kind of push some boundaries in those, in color choices and get super granular
into like, you know, how much sharpening or how much clarity or how much texture, how
much desaturation or hue differences, variations am I going to put into this specific image?
But I know cohesively it's going to stay in my realm of editing style, but you can still
nail down to every little detail inside of each individual photo.
But it also helps you.
It's not like overload where once you take a photo, you're like, oh, I don't know how
I'm going to edit this.
There's so many different directions I can do.
And then you try something and you don't like it.
You let it sit for a day.
You come back to it.
You try something.
You don't like it.
You let it sit for another day.
And then all of a sudden it's been a month since you took that photo.
Haven't gotten an editing, edit on it that you liked.
It never sees the light of day.
And then you kind of fall into that, you know, you end up not posting or not being consistent
because you just kind of psyched yourself out and you don't know how you want to edit
it.
Whereas with me, it's like, I know it's going to fall into my style, but I can still be
creative with, you know, those little details and how I edit the photo.
So you talk about the challenges of not having a style.
What are some challenges of having a style?
Yeah, kind of similar, similar vibe.
And for me, it's, I kind of like having a style as opposed to not having it.
I mean, obviously people will say, well, I can't, obviously not every photo that I take
will look good with my editing style.
And I'm kind of okay with that.
And I feel like a lot of the photos I take, I take them based on how I think they're going
to look when I do edit them.
And that kind of has, my editing style has actually helped shape my photography technique,
if that makes sense.
I kind of know like, you know, how much of a, how much skin tone do I want in a photo?
How much of the sky do I want in a photo?
Do I want to try to frame the sky out entirely?
Because if it's a blue sky day, you'll notice in my eye feed, I don't have any blue at all.
There's zero.
My blue saturation slider is zero.
So blue has been the one color that I just don't, I know how to edit it.
And obviously I added it differently for client work and stuff.
My client work is a lot different than my personal work.
But for me in my personal feed, blue does not work.
So any photo that I take, or if I go on a shoot and it's blue skies, I'm taking photos
specifically that do not include the sky.
I'm getting super detailed shots.
I'm trying to focus on reds and browns and greens that I know will fit well with my editing
style into my feed and win.
I feel like that was kind of the thing that people say, having a style is you can't do
what you want all the time.
And I would flip that around to those same people and be like, I can do what I want.
And I just choose to stay within that realm and kind of take photos that I think are cool
and kind of work backwards almost to fit them into my editing style, rather than just taking
generalized photo and trying to slap my edit onto it.
Those photos were kind of pre-planned from an idea into the full editing process and
then eventually end up on the feed.
Jack, there's so much to dive into that and to digest for people listening.
That just, everything you said there got me excited.
This is start back from you're shooting a specific way because you know you're going
to edit it a specific way.
So what's your thought process?
Are you planning your shots before you even go out into the field?
Yeah.
I mean, let's, I went down to use like a random hunt, for example.
I was on a pheasant hunt in December and it was in Ohio and it was what most people will
consider to be a beautiful day.
Not on the sky, sunny blue skies.
For me, that's like the worst possible day for photography.
I am very much a moody type person.
I love overcast.
I love clouds.
I love like heavy rainstorms rolling in like dark, evenly lit.
And so a bright and sunny day with not a cloud in the sky.
I knew going into that shoot, yeah, I was definitely going to have to be creative when
any of these photos then end up on my feed.
And I was also shooting, I was shooting for a client that day, but also it was kind of
like a personal hunt.
So I knew I was going to have some client work and then some personal stuff that I would
then repurpose on my own Instagram.
And so going into that, I got the, I made sure to check all of those boxes off the client
checklist to make sure I got landscape shots, detailed shots.
And once that was done, then I really dialed into what kind of shots can I get here that
will then fit my Instagram?
And a lot of them were like stuff of dogs, bird dogs going after flushing birds.
I got a lot of close up detailed shots of guys, you know, holding pheasants, hands on
dogs.
A lot of detailed shots of like, so upland hunting has a lot of cool like vests and jackets
and gear that you can kind of take photographs of.
And it's got a lot of cool texture to it.
A lot of it's like wax, cotton, super cool texture vibe.
So I took a lot of like clothing, detailed shots of like hands and pockets, basically
anything that cut out the sky.
If we were in kind of like a little like gully or valley, there was a section where like
a little creek was running through to ag fields.
So once we were in that little bit of a more shaded area, that's where I really started
to dial in stuff, not having to deal with that harsh sunlight and shadows.
So yeah, it was kind of cool to play around and be like with my identity style, what kind
of shots can I get in a lot of them were those close up detailed shots where I didn't have
to worry about shadows and didn't have to worry about the sky.
I'm just imagining how much you've grown because your style's forced you to think outside the
box.
And how have, what are some challenges you faced thinking outside the box?
Has there ever been a time where you just didn't take a photo or did you, have you always
tried to get something out of it?
Nope.
Yeah, no, my problem has never been not taking photos.
I've got drives and terabytes and just full of photos that honestly they will never see
the light of day, but I know that happened.
And I'll eventually go back and I'll look at stuff from time to time and archive stuff
and I forgot about photos I've taken.
I've repurposed a lot of photos as well.
Like my feed, probably like if we go back and look at my feed as it stands today, the
last photo I posted, I actually took last year.
The raccoon photo was this past fall.
The raptor photo was in January of this year.
So not all of it is like super recent.
And that's something where it kind of takes me, I've got kind of like a big asset backlog
of stuff where I've already edited it and just kind of see like where will this best
work into the feed.
But then when I do go on a cool shoot and like, yeah, I'm going to edit these immediately
and get them up as fast as possible just because I know they're going to work really well and
I really like the photos themselves.
But if I don't have time to go out and shoot my own stuff a lot, that's when I really start
to repurpose old photos.
And it's kind of cool to go back and see how I've grown, like you said, as a photographer
and with my new editing style, like how do these old photos that I've kind of forgotten
about, you know, how do they develop into something new with the new editing style and
the stuff that I've learned, took those old photos.
Refreshing to hear your perspective.
Recently you just started posting some carousel type posts regarding business, marketing,
branding, tips to help other people.
Why did you start this type of content on your Instagram?
Yeah, that's a great question.
And that took me a while to kind of jump into as well.
I don't know if you guys remember, but I used to do something similar to this last year
a little bit.
It wasn't to the scale that I do it now, but I've always had this almost two sides where
it's like I've got my creative side and then I've also got my business analytical strategy
side.
And I've been struggling to find a way to incorporate that into the feed.
And it's kind of a lot of the reason why I didn't do it previously or earlier was because
it wasn't what was going to work with the algorithm.
And when I did post this stuff last year, it got, I almost feel like people intentionally
like if they could unlike it, they would unlike it.
Like it's, I don't know, it just didn't do well.
And it was kind of hard.
And that's a whole another conversation that I'm sure other people have mentioned is like
the mental side of the algorithm changes, reach drop-offs and whatever.
It really messes with your mind and you start to devalue your own work because it's maybe
not getting the same likes it did last year or two years ago or whatever.
And it's like, it's not because your photos are not as good as they used to be.
It's because stuff that's out of your control and getting over that hurdle was part of the
reason why I started doing these business posts again.
And it's like, that's just as much a part of my life as the creative side, the outdoor
still photos and the reels and stuff that I put out.
It's like, if I want my feed to be the full Jack West experiences, who I am as a person,
like that includes those business and strategy and kind of deeper posts in addition to this,
hey, this is a cool photo and I'm going to put it up there.
So getting over that hurdle and not caring so much about how stuff does on the feed.
And I would say that I'm going forward, I'm treating my feed as more of like an art gallery
for my mind and my creative style almost rather than trying to get people, like I'm not trying
to grow my Instagram anymore.
I'm kind of giving up on it.
The people don't like it, go ahead and unfollow me.
Like I'm just going to post stuff that I'm passionate about it.
I think it's cool.
So that's kind of where I'm at going forward with Instagram.
I relate to you.
I feel like I am an analytical business person first that's grown into the creative space
over the years.
Like I have to force myself to be creative in order to be creative.
Well, it can be creative, but naturally I'm analytical, logical, business minded.
So seeing your posts with a spin of art on them with design, things like that is awesome.
And to dive in a little bit on one of the posts that you talked about, it was about
stresses in Q1 being a business owner of myself.
I don't have some that I answered to for Q1, Q2, Q3, Q4, but for you, did you have to answer
for Q1 and was there any challenges in that terms for you or was that just to help other
people?
Yeah, I mean, definitely we work with a lot of clients and they're very business minded
and focused on quarterly goals and sales revenue and marketing objectives and all that stuff.
So yeah, that's definitely helping, it's always in the back of our mind throughout the year
and making sure that we're staying on track to not only meet our clients goals, but also
as Muddy Shutter Media as a whole to make sure that we're meeting our own goals, making
sure that we're moving forward as a company.
So I guess in terms of my own, I really don't set quarterly goals for my Instagram or my
personal creative stuff, but I always like to feel like I'm moving forward a little bit.
I'll set some informal goals for myself and say, hey, I want to get this many posts out
or I want to take this direction in the next couple of months or next couple of weeks or
something.
So I feel like that was using my Instagram piece as an example.
Where I'm at now with my feet was the goal that I had set for myself in December of last
year and it's like, by March, I want to start posting more of the marketing stuff, more
of the business posts.
And yeah, I can definitely say that over the first quarter of the year, I accomplished
that goal for myself.
That makes sense when you put it in that perspective of meeting goals for clients versus meeting
goals for yourself.
For myself, I have all kinds of goals and I wrote them out December, I was like, I want
to hit these things by this time and then you did it, you didn't do it.
I really like that you call people out on that.
We kind of have to keep, because I was like, yeah, that's something that people should
be thinking about because I'm big into setting goals.
Yeah.
No, no, that's definitely on, I've got a whole list of ideas for upcoming posts and stuff
and goal setting is definitely the common, it's like a reoccurring theme that always
pops up.
You know, people talk about goals, but it's like the whole process of setting a goal and
making sure that it's one, achievable and two, I feel like the part of goal setting
that people always don't do is outlining a strategy to then accomplish that goal.
Like it's one thing to say, like, yeah, I want to have 10 billion followers next week,
but like, how are you actually going to do that?
And I feel like people, they'll say, okay, here's my goal and putting zero effort or
thought into how they're actually going to achieve it.
So that's where a lot of my posts usually outline is like the steps you can take to
take action to actually accomplish your goals.
So yeah, who knows what the, that might be my next post honestly.
So yeah, we're all ready for that one.
So I was watching a couple of your YouTube videos.
Well, I mean, I was following along with, following along when you're posting them and
you haven't posted in a while and I was just kind of curious if you're going to make a
comeback to the YouTube channel space, document your adventures or just do topical discussions
regarding marketing and photography, hunting everything together.
Yeah, that's a, I kind of forgot about YouTube for a while.
That was definitely something that I hit.
That was before I joined MSM.
So that was kind of like my little side project back when I was working at Abercrombie.
And yeah, to be straight up, it's not really on my goal list in the immediate future.
So I feel like YouTube and it's hard for me.
I'm definitely, I'm not a video editor.
I always say, I know how to edit video, but I'm not a great video editor.
So and for the quality of content that I would want to push out on YouTube, I just don't
know if I have the skills currently to meet my own expectations for what I would want
to put out on YouTube.
So I feel like for right now I'm going to focus on building out more of that community.
And I would say, you know, going into Q2, if we're talking in quarters of the year,
like I want to continue to bring in more people and I guess identify more people in our space
that care about the business stuff.
Like I'm hemorrhaging followers right now by what I'm doing on my own feed, losing tens
of followers every single day.
So I feel like my goal is to start building up an audience who actually cares about the
stuff I'm posting.
And then if I, you know, prove that, that concept, then maybe that's something I would
want to bring over to YouTube to start providing more data and insights and Intel and to kind
of my thought process and creative workflow.
But as of this point, like I'm really not, not proving the concept right now as people
are really rapidly unfollowing me.
So you know, I am in a weekly entrepreneurs mastermind group calls.
We meet every Wednesday usually, and we just talk about different struggles, different
things, how to build a brand.
And one person, this marketing guru, they said, when you post about what you're interested
like your business, your brand, your niche, your values, not only are you posting to attract
certain people who are like minded, you're also retracting, reflecting people who may
not align with what you're doing.
So that whole alignment issue or a whole alignment topic is crucial because if you're not authentic
to what you're believing in, what your creative side is posting, you're going to attract the
wrong audience and actually make people who you actually want to attract not interested
in you.
Yeah, exactly.
I would say that that's something I've struggled with since I started my Instagram and like
I started my Instagram well before I started my hunting career.
Well before I started my journey into marketing strategy, it was like when I first started
my Instagram, a lot of people followed me for travel content.
And I feel like I was like, I was like the travel guy.
I was trying to be VNR McKinnon posting the best of the best when it came to any trip
that I had ever gone on.
And then that kind of translated into creating the Moody Edit sit-in that I was known as
the Moody Edit guy, and that's what people followed me for.
And the travel people, they were fine with that.
They're fine with travel stuff with the Moody Edit on it.
But then when I moved into hunting and outdoor recreational stuff, I turned off a lot of
people, lost quite a few followers on that, still kept the people who were interested
in those three topics of travel, Moody Editing, and then hunting and fishing.
And then once I started this, the new business, marketing, whatever, I lost a significant
amount of people because the amount of people who then were interested in all four of those
topics.
They were interested in travel.
They were interested in the Moody Editing style.
They were interested in hunting and fishing, and they were also interested in marketing
and business stuff.
That's a pretty small collection of people.
And that's kind of what I posted a lot of stuff on my stories to be like, when you come
to my feed, what do you expect to see?
And obviously, the number one answer was like, oh, they both, because I feel like the people
who are interacting with my stories the most are people who are that rare collection of
people who are interested in all the things that I'm interested in.
But yeah, I've got people that used to follow me for travel stuff, and I still post some
travel stuff, but it's definitely not what I'm posting primarily.
I've got people that follow me for Moody Editing style, which that's something that I'll continue
to do.
I've got people that specifically follow me for hunting and fishing stuff, and they're
not really interested in travel, and they're not really interested in the Moody Editing
style, and they're definitely not interested in the business stuff.
So I'm really trying to build up that fourth one, the new one of this marketing strategy,
insights, data, creative workflow, kind of the business side behind the creative industry.
I feel like that's my smallest customer segment right now, smallest target audience.
And so I'm really trying to build that one up, because I feel like those people will
then understand kind of where I'm at in my journey on Instagram.
And it's been tough, not going to lie, to kind of deal with, I know that I'm turning
off a lot of people that follow me, and honestly, I've lost followers of people who have been
following me for many years.
And that's just got to be something I'm okay with, because I feel like my Instagram account
currently is probably the most authentic version of me that I've ever put out on Instagram.
So that's what I'm talking about, man.
To briefly touch on Instagram and growing, things like that.
So I started out as a photographer, that's what I posted about, then I transitioned into
like travel content, then I transitioned into adventure photography, then I transitioned
into outdoors tips.
I kept trying to transition into things that I thought would do good versus doing what
I wanted to do.
I ended up ignoring the fact that I love storytelling, so it took me until like last year's June
to realize, whoa, I come out here because I like taking photos and videos.
So now that I'm out here posting what I want to do, I built up the wrong audience from
the start.
So I totally relate to what you're saying, but like I mentioned before, we're taking
away the people who are not aligned with us, and we're also bringing in people who are
aligned with us, which keep do what you're doing, man.
Another question I had for you before we close out was you're in marketing, you're a photographer,
but I want to know what your ideal dream job is, or maybe even running a business.
Yeah, I would say right now I'm in my ideal dream job, and my ideal dream job is to come
in and be able to do something new pretty much every day.
And I mean, the people that I work with at Muddy Shutter Media, everyone within our immediate
network of clients and companies, my own network, personal aside from MSM on Instagram, it's
a really awesome collection of people, and I'm super grateful to interact with all the
people that I interact with every day.
And we have some really cool conversations that have helped me grow personally, grow
professionally a large amount over the last year.
So I would say I'm in that realm, I'm still growing a lot, but yeah, what I'm doing now
and just learning as much as possible and interacting with a lot of people every day,
that's kind of the dream job for me.
Well said.
So today's age, we are in the age and generation of posting work, copying each other, and chasing
views.
But I mean, to be frank, people have always been copying each other's work for as long
as humans have been alive.
Now it's just put on display because we have social media to see it.
How do you navigate to creating original work and what are some tips you can share with
the listeners?
How to go about that?
Yeah.
I mean, I'll be straight up.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with taking inspiration from other people.
Like I take inspiration from all the people.
I've talked about Peter Ricken multiple times in this podcast episode already.
Huge inspiration to me, but I feel like you have to...
The easiest way to tell whether or not you copied someone and ripped something off was
whether you can explain exactly what you did to create that piece of work.
And for me, I can speak to anything that I've ever put on my feed.
I can tell you exactly why I edited it, what I was doing when I shot it, why I took that
specific picture, what I remember about it.
And it's like, that's the key indicator right there, whether or not it's an original work
of yours or not.
If you can speak to it and stand behind what you put out there.
And I know a lot of people probably can't do that.
And if you ask them, hey, I really like this photo.
How'd you edit it?
Oh, I took it and then from the preset pack that I bought from this one dude, I just slapped
it on there and then published it.
Like okay, great.
Cool story.
Whereas even if you did buy a preset from someone, talk about the story of why did you
select that specific preset or what changes did you make to it when you were going through
it?
How does it reflect you cohesively on your feed?
Does it fit well with what you already post or were you trying to take a new direction
with what you were publishing out on your Instagram?
Basically what was your thought process behind putting something out there?
I don't know.
That's kind of the thought process that I take with my own feed and the stuff that I
put out is if someone asked me and I'm happy that Nick, you had me on your podcast, it
kind of allowed me to give a little bit of insight on my process and what I put out on
Instagram, because I feel like, yeah, I do put out original content and yeah, anyone
who wants to kind of discuss or if you're struggling with figuring out how do you want
to make original content and you can't really figure out, are you questioning whether your
stuff is original or whether you feel like you're copying someone else?
I kind of love these conversations and helping someone uncover their true brand identity
or who you are as a person or also getting people out of that imposter syndrome because
I had that for a long time and it's like, yeah, I know that deep down I was creating
original content, but it made me didn't feel like I was creating original content just
because I was taking so much stuff from other people and inspiration, but helping people
get out of that, you're not always an imposter just because you are questioning whether your
stuff is original or not.
So it's definitely a cool conversation to have with people.
Man, just drop the mic, man.
That's awesome.
Before I let you go, where can the people listening learn more about you and where can
they follow you?
Yeah.
My Instagram is Jack West, Jackswitherv.
Definitely go ahead and follow Muddy Shutter as well on Instagram.
We're getting ready to publish our origin story and director's reel, so definitely it's
kind of a compilation of the coolest stuff that we've shot over the last five years.
So we're actually launching it today.
So it'll be up on our website.
That's kind of it.
I'm also super active on LinkedIn in case anyone's jumped over to LinkedIn looking for
some more of that business long form marketing strategy advice.
I'm Jack Westrady over on LinkedIn.
All right.
If you didn't catch that on Instagram, he's Jack West.
A is with a V. Go follow Muddy Shutter Media.
That's where he works.
He's doing all the magic, helping other businesses.
If you want to learn more about marketing, discussions, posts with Jack, you can go to
LinkedIn.
I actually just sent Jack a LinkedIn Connect, so I'll be getting that soon.
Highly recommend using LinkedIn if you are creative and you're trying to reach out to
people and get a hold of them.
LinkedIn is a very underrated tool.
And Jack, before we let you go, is there anything else you would like to add to the listeners
today?
Yeah, I would just say don't always let what other people are doing and let the algorithm
kind of dictate your creative process.
Just take a deep dive and look back at VOR as a person.
And honestly, if you want to follow my lead and use Instagram as kind of a visual gallery
of who you are, that would be my best bet to overcome any negative side effects of the
algorithm or any of that stuff.
And just keep following Nick because he's bringing great people onto his podcast.
That's what I'm talking about.
Don't let the algorithm dictate your value or what you believe in, what you're posting.
And if you don't follow me, Nick, I'm at the Nickamp on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Facebook,
Twitter, and I post about mountains, hiking.
Now I'm telling stories, but video.
I'm probably getting into more nature documentaries.
You're hearing it first here.
I haven't told anybody that yet.
So that should be cool.
If I learn more about the podcast, it's Nickamp podcast on Instagram and TikTok.
We're streaming on all platforms.
We're on YouTube if you want to watch us.
Hello.
Glad you're here.
Can't wait to share more people with you and their perspectives.
We hope that this episode was beneficial to you and that you learned something from it.
And I will catch you on another episode next week.
Thanks again for listening.
See you, Jack.
See you.