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You're listening to the Nick Amp Podcast, a podcast that dives into the lives and stories

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of creatives, entrepreneurs, and outdoor enthusiasts.

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My name is Nick Amp and I'm a filmmaker and photographer best known for documenting stories

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in the mountains.

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We sit down with guests to uncover where they get inspiration from, dig into their experiences

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in the outdoor industry, and find a ton of actionable inspiration from their adventures

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in life.

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Welcome back to another episode.

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This is Nick Amp.

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Welcome back to another episode, this is episode 13.

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Today we have someone who is based out of Ohio State and they're quite unique because

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most photographers that you see on Instagram are out of the West Coast, Colorado, all these

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big name areas.

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And this guy has managed to make a name for himself with his unique photography style

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by taking the time to do things that are creative that you might not be able to do anywhere

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else.

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And this guy, he's a brand marketer.

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He does hunting photography.

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He recently just joined the hunting community himself.

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So it's been really awesome to watch him grow in that aspect.

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And without further ado, we have Jack Westerheide, also known as Jack West on Instagram.

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Jack, how you doing man?

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Yeah, good Nick.

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Thanks for having me on.

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Appreciate it, man.

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Well, to start it off, man, just give us a brief rundown of how you got here and what

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your story is in terms of picking up a camera, getting into hunting, things like that.

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Yeah, for sure.

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So as you mentioned, I am Midwest born and raised.

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I'm based in just outside of Columbus, Ohio.

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I graduated from the Ohio State University.

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I would say that I've always had that creative bone in my body.

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So I would say I first started photography back on a family vacation, I think this was

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probably, I don't know, 2010.

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And we were lucky to go on a Mediterranean cruise with my parents, my grandparents.

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So my grandma gave me a little cannon point and shoot and said, hey, we're going on this

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fantastic trip.

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That was my first time out of the country.

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And she's like, take this camera and just take a lot of cool pictures.

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So that's what really started my exploration into photography was with that little cannon

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point and shoot.

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Kept up with it for a while, did a little bit of photography through high school, but

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didn't really take it that seriously.

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Got to college at Ohio State and was actually in the media marketing and communications

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scholars program at Ohio State.

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So that kind of gave me a good background into initial strategy of marketing and thought

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that that's maybe something I wanted to pursue as a career later down the road.

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Ended up joining, applied for a, was looking for kind of like an internship or a job in

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my sophomore year of college at Ohio State.

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Saw an opening at the student newspaper at Ohio State called The Lanter, applied for

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that job, got it.

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And that turned into be kind of the coolest, most shining accomplishment of everything

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that I did in my undergrad career at Ohio State.

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Just an absolutely fantastic experience, worked there for three years until graduation, held

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a couple of different roles.

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I was the social media editor, the photography editor, and then ended up being the managing

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editor for design.

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So laying out the newspaper and then incorporating kind of all the stuff that I had done in my

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previous two roles, both in photography and social media, copywriting, all that stuff.

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That was a super great experience.

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I learned a lot about photography during my time at The Lanter.

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Got to travel with the Ohio State football and basketball teams.

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Oh, that's awesome.

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On the road to them getting into sports photography, which Ohio State, love them or hate them,

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they're a good sports team.

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So got to go to some big games and be on the sideline of the field and back sage access

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to a lot of music events as well on campus and in Columbus, Ohio.

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So yeah, that's where I really say I would cut my teeth with photography and also just

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design in general and getting a chance to lay out the print editions of the newspaper.

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After college, I continued on with an internship that I had had at Abercrombie and Fitch corporate.

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And so I worked there for a couple of years after college.

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I had a couple of different roles there, international heat commerce, but mostly in operations.

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So brand store operations for all of our stores around the world.

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That was a really cool experience, but didn't really get to do a whole lot of creative work

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in that role.

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Stuck with that through kind of COVID and then in 20 last year.

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So 2022 actually was through a friend of a friend on Instagram where he posted a, we're

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hiring post from Muddy Shutter Media.

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And I checked it out and didn't never heard of them before.

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Didn't realize that their headquarters were in Cleveland, Ohio, which is two and a half

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hours north of me in Columbus.

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So kind of on a set of kind of a cold email to the email they had listed in that hiring

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post and I was hired at Muddy Shutter Media last February.

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So I've been there for about a year.

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I'm currently the associate marketing director at Muddy Shutter Media.

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And it's only been a year, but it feels like it's been 10 years based on our, all the project

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we've worked on and it's been, you know, the best child of my career so far.

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So that brings me to today.

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Yeah, first off, a lot can happen in one year.

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And when you're loving what you're doing, you tend to do more of what you're doing because

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you love it.

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So then it just feels like, wow, I really did all of that in just this one year.

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But to dive into your earlier days of picking up a camera back when you were in high school

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in that Canon point and shoot, were you just taking photos of everything that you could?

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Was it more of on family trips?

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How did that go?

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Yeah, I mean, it definitely started on family vacations and kind of went from there.

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It's like, even when we got back from that vacation, kept the camera and kept trying

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to learn new things about, you know, how to take photography.

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And that's the one thing that stuck with me is after we got back from that trip and we're

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kind of reviewing the pictures, everyone said, oh, like, you have an eye, you have an eye

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for photography.

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They didn't really know what that meant.

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But looking back on that, I feel like it's kind of that, that's more, a similar eye is

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like it goes beyond taking pictures.

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I would describe it as taking pictures that everyone else takes.

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And it's like, you're at some type of famous landmark or an event that are a place that

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now that we are all on Instagram, it's like, I've seen this picture before.

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I'm not going to take that picture.

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I'm going to try to do something different, whether that's taking a different angle or

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using elements in the foreground or the background to kind of make your picture of what is honestly

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a very common picture different and specific to you.

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So that's kind of what I would say I focused on a lot in my photography development was

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trying to have that different eye and take pictures that, you know, maybe have a popular

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thing.

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But when you see that picture, you can kind of tell that either it's my picture or it

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stands out from that same picture that maybe a lot of other people have taken.

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You know, one thing I was mentioning to my friend was you can tell a Jack West photo

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from a mile away just by your unique style.

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Dude, that means so much, honestly.

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So it's been years, years in the making.

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Very well, man.

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And to move forward with that, you've worked at the lantern.

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You were an editor, a social media, did copywriting, and you say this helped you develop your photography

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skills in a more advanced way.

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I mean, that's sports photography, concerts, things like that.

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And now you do more outdoors photography.

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How did that translate over to the outdoors photography?

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What skills did you take from the lantern to further on now?

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Yeah, that's a great question.

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And I'd say like, you know, I'm definitely I would still describe myself as more of an

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outdoor landscape lifestyle, you know, obviously hunting, fishing, all that.

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But you know, all in the outdoor space, like I enjoy pretty much any type of outdoor recreational

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activity.

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But the skills that I learned at the lantern, I would say that, you know, low light concert

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photography, sports photography, those translate extremely, extremely well to wildlife photography

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and outdoor photography just because in a lot of those sections, just like when you're

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in the corner of an Enzo or something and someone's throwing up a Hail Mary touchdown,

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you only get one chance to get that photo.

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And it's not you can't like if you miss the photo, you can't go out to the team and be

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like, hey, can you guys do that again?

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Like, and that's kind of a similar similar vibe when you're on a hunt or something.

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That's like you get one chance to get that shot.

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And if you don't get it, you don't get it.

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So it's kind of like being making sure that you have all your settings dialed, you know,

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kind of you can anticipate if something is about to go down.

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And if you can anticipate when something's about to go down, being ready to basically

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get the shot in any type of situation.

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So the lantern was definitely a great learning experience and fast action, you know, a lot

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of times low light situations.

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And I still use a lot of those things that I learned in those days to the type of photography

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and the trips that I go on now.

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That sure translates perfectly.

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I just had an animal documentary filmmaker on last week.

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He was talking about how filming wildlife is definitely unique because all the shots

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he got from a certain sequence was not all from the same day.

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And he said that he just had to be there and be ready to get that one shot that they were

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going to do something cool or interesting.

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So that makes a lot of sense when you say catch the shot in the end zone.

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Now you're doing hunting, fishing.

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If that fish comes out of the water, you want to get that shot, right?

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That's awesome, man.

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I mean, that just, if anyone's listening, you want to get into wildlife or sports.

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They kind of work together skills wise.

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So what does a typical day for you look like working with a media company?

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Are you editing or taking photos the whole time, branding SEO?

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Yeah, that is a great question.

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Probably all of you above, but my role has definitely changed a lot since I joined the

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MSM team last year.

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So when I came on, I was a creative content producer.

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And it's a great title because that's pretty much what I did.

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I just made things, whether that was like an Instagram post or a reel or editing a small

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short form piece of content, even down to figuring out what kind of the posting strategy

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and schedule was for that specific piece.

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So I would say that my role now has kind of evolved into more of that marketing strategy,

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business development role, client relations, kind of building a custom marketing strategy

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with them based on whatever their business objectives are.

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And that's kind of a conversation that I've had with a lot of people.

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And it's like that side, that business strategy side, I would consider just as much of a creative

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process as the actual photography, video, design process.

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Just because it takes creativity to kind of create a custom plan for a company to achieve

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a specific goal.

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You're still using that creative brain to look at what other people do, but then put

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your own spin on it.

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And then obviously I'm working with our super talented team of creatives and media production

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guys, post-production wizards, to once we can create that concept of what we want to

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do, working with them to develop the content, cut it, edit it, shoot it, and then figuring

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out a way to best showcase it to the world.

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So I was looking at the Muddy Shutter Media's Instagram page and you guys do serve some

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outdoors companies, right?

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So what's that experience like being able to brand and make this strategy for these

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outdoors companies, something that you love to do?

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What goes through your budget process when you're trying to help someone out like that?

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Yeah.

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Yeah, it's really cool.

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And I feel like everyone on the team, it's kind of like a common thread.

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Some of us came from hunting backgrounds, some of us didn't.

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Then some of us can currently hunt and some of us do not.

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So it's a great mix of people, but I would say that the common thread across the team

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is everyone does love to be outside.

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We've got kayakers, you've got hikers, you've got people who are into overlanding, camping,

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then we've got hunters and fishermen and stuff.

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But that common thread is everyone likes being outside.

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So when we get to work with a client that's an outdoor brand or they provide a product

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or a service that is primarily targeted towards people who are in the outdoor industry, that's

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really where we can run wild a little bit because we kind of have that background knowledge

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of the customer base because in most times we are the customer base.

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So getting to help a brand develop a strategy that is almost tailored to you in a sense,

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it's kind of cool.

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Just like if you were to go to your favorite brands and say, hey, I'm this person, I'm a

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customer and this is what I think you should do.

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Not many of us get that opportunity.

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So us on the opposite side of that, an agency setting, getting to kind of provide that feedback

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and give ideas to some of our favorite companies, it's really fun.

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That's unique, man.

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That's a dream job if you ask me.

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I worked at an agency and we served a lot of different companies, none of them outdoors.

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So I can imagine what you're doing is just amazing.

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That's the cool thing too.

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So we work with the full spectrum.

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In our portfolio right now, we've got outdoor clients.

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We are big into the music industry, so we've shot music videos, concert recaps, events.

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We're getting into sports.

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We're actually getting ready to go shoot another piece with a pretty major sports retailer.

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Can't release it right now, but it'll be released probably in a couple of months.

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But yeah, it's cool for us to be able to work with so many different people in so many different

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industries that you can kind of pull things that you wouldn't say, for example, we do

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an outdoor shoot and then pulling that concept into a retail setting.

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For example, it's like being able to cross, pull ideas across industries.

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And that's kind of a cool thing for us as well.

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So being able to work with such a broad spectrum of clients and companies and products.

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That's awesome, man.

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So transitioning to hunting and photography, how did you get into hunting exactly?

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Like where did this journey start?

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Because two years ago, right, is when you started this journey.

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Yep, that is correct.

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You did your research learning.

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But yeah, so I started, definitely did not have a traditional, what people would consider

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to be a traditional hunting lineage.

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So when you look at the hunting tradition in culture in America, usually it's passed

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down from one generation to the next.

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And it's like you have someone in your family or like a close personal friend to kind of

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shows you the rope when you're a young kid, gets you out there.

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And then you kind of develop as you age into like the full hunter.

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Whereas me, like I grew up outdoors, mostly like hiking, camping.

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Like for instance, my dad and I went on like a week long rafting trip down the Colorado

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River.

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So it's like, I was not a stranger to spending time outside, but it was, I didn't really

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ever definitely, I didn't ever do it.

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I did not grow up hunting.

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I knew a couple of people that hunted, but it just really wasn't a thing that anyone

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in my immediate circle did.

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So it was never something that I considered doing.

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And so fast forward to COVID, I was kind of like everyone else, I need to like get outside.

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And I didn't really know what I was going to do, what was going to be that driving factor.

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And you know, obviously I love to hike and stuff, but it's not like you don't wake up

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and you're like, oh, I know you do because you go on your sunset and sunrise journey.

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But I didn't wake up and say, yeah, I'm freaking going to go hiking.

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And so I needed some type of like new activity or something.

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It's like, I want to wake up every day and just like know that that's what I'm going

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to do.

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So I randomly was scrolling on Netflix and came across Steven Ronello, who he's the founder

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of MeatEater, which I don't know if anyone's ever watched the MeatEater show on Netflix,

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which is now on their own website.

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But before he started MeatEater, he did a documentary called Stars in the Sky.

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And I watched that documentary and that was really like, that was the spark that ignited

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my interest in hunting.

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And it was really an out of the box perspective that I had never really seen before coming

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from like someone who was a hunter.

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Because growing up in central Ohio, it's like, obviously there's a huge population of hunters

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around me, but it's like more so on like I didn't really know why they were doing it.

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And so having insight into the history of hunting in America, what it means to these

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people, like how they go about it, the culture, connection with wildlife, connection with

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the outdoors, connection with your community.

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And it was just a super cool perspective that I had never considered before.

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So after watching that, definitely started to take steps to learn more about hunting.

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Took my hunter education course, started scouting public land, which public land in itself is

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a cool aspect that I feel like hunters know a lot about just as much as people spend a

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lot of time in national parks and stuff out in our region of the Midwest.

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We don't have as many of those grand national parks that we can go to quickly and easily

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access.

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So figuring out where your public land access is, whether that's state parks or local municipalities

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or anywhere that you can go and basically hunt for free pretty much and spend time outdoors

284
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without anyone bothering you.

285
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So yeah, that's kind of where I started during COVID and this is where we've ended up.

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That's amazing.

287
00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:44,720
So to dive a little bit deeper into hunting, how did you find a crowd of people to start

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going hunting with?

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I mean, you said that your immediate circle wasn't hunters.

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How do you reach out to people and start getting into that circle?

291
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So yeah, that's an excellent question.

292
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And kind of getting into it is I found a family friend that I'd known for a long time that

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I knew was into hunting and kind of reached out to him first as to kind of use as a resource.

294
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So I started getting ready for hunting season.

295
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My first hunting season would have been spring turkey season here in Ohio, which is April

296
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to May.

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So this was two years ago.

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That was going to be my first season.

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Started getting kind of prepped for it in that late fall, winter, and then was really

300
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geared up towards it starting in like that March, April timeframe.

301
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So I got with him, took the full hunter education course, kind of learned as much about turkey

302
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:38,560
hunting as I could, both from watching YouTube videos and just, I don't know, reading, like

303
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looking at maps.

304
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I mean, that's the thing about hunting is you never can, you're always learning about

305
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something new, whether it's where you're going, what species you're going after, what's like

306
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:54,680
the kind of behavior of a wild turkey, calling techniques, where you need to be.

307
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With turkeys, you don't necessarily have to worry as much about wind and stuff, but you

308
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got to worry about where you're sitting in relationship to where they're roosting.

309
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:10,360
So there's, I'm still learning a ton about hunting in general, but especially turkey

310
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hunting.

311
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I would say that that's where I started with YouTube videos and then using this family

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friend as kind of a reference.

313
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And then once you get out there, you start meeting people very quickly in the hunting

314
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community.

315
00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:28,720
Hunting buddies has always kind of been a key term and it really is true.

316
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It's like you'll go hunting with one person, you'll meet another person on that hunt, and

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then you kind of start building your network that way.

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And then once I joined MSM last year, I just opened my network up to a whole larger group

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of hunters and experts and the people we work with, clients.

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And yeah, last year was a huge learning year for me.

321
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Honestly, just exponentially learned more about hunting in general, just by going on

322
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trips, documenting and filming them, photography, to then bringing those skills back from those

323
00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:05,880
work trips back to my own personal hunting experience.

324
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:17,000
So Jack, you were a hunter and you take photos also of hunting experiences and trips.

325
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:22,240
Are you taking photos as a photographer sometimes and sometimes you're only a hunter or are

326
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you doing both when you're out there?

327
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Yeah.

328
00:22:26,120 --> 00:22:32,520
So that's another great question is, I would say my first year, because I got into hunting

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through media, I got into it through photography, through video, I felt like that's always the

330
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priority that I set when I was out hunting.

331
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So I was like, when I was hunting, probably not what I should have done, but I was focusing

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more on the media aspect to try to capture my own hunts and quickly learn that you cannot

333
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do that.

334
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So the first successful turkey hunt I was ever on, I had my A&ED on a 70 to 200 lads

335
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on a monopod and it had like little tripod feet on the bottom of the monopod, but obviously

336
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it was not going to stand on its own.

337
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So I had it propped up kind of in between, it was leaning against my leg, pointed in

338
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the direction that we knew the turkeys were going to come from and we could hear them

339
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scratching.

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We knew they were coming close.

341
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And then all of a sudden gust of wind came and knocked it over, knocked the camera over.

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And I was like, the guy I was with was like, do not move.

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And I was like, okay, I'm not going to move because these turkeys are probably within 20,

344
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25 yards of us right now.

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And they are super aware to sound, any movement at all will freak a turkey out.

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00:23:40,120 --> 00:23:45,040
So basically let it sit, it was still recording and it was hilarious because I got the whole

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encounter on audio, but obviously the video was just in a pile of leaves.

348
00:23:50,820 --> 00:23:57,880
So, but that was really like a pivotal moment in my hunting slash media career was like,

349
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there's a time to hunt and there's a time to film.

350
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:04,440
And usually the two of them, you can't, it's very rare to find someone who can do both

351
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:06,180
well.

352
00:24:06,180 --> 00:24:09,200
You're either too worried about making sure you're getting the shot and you're not focused

353
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on the actual hunting aspect or vice versa.

354
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:17,600
So it's when I go out now, I'm either hunting or I'm filming.

355
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:19,580
I'm not really doing both.

356
00:24:19,580 --> 00:24:26,780
Is there a certain etiquette when you're taking photos or videos of hunters?

357
00:24:26,780 --> 00:24:34,760
Is there certain things that you have to follow that are like not rude to the other hunters

358
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:36,320
when they're focused?

359
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:40,480
Could you walk us through how you navigate through that?

360
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:41,480
Yeah.

361
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:48,640
I mean, especially obviously this is no surprise to people, but in most cases hunting does

362
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involve some type of what we would consider to be a, you know, either a firearm or a bow

363
00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:58,160
and arrow or something.

364
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,000
So there's some dangerous equipment involved in hunting.

365
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:05,440
So you always got to be conscious of that, making sure that you're not standing in anyone's

366
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:11,000
like firing lanes or, you know, if you do have a firearm yourself, if I'm carrying one,

367
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:15,320
like making sure that everything is good to go there with safeties and making sure that

368
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,240
that's kind of the top priority when you're out there.

369
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,280
The people have gotten to the field and you are in the field as well.

370
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You got to make sure that that's always top of mind.

371
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:30,900
But in terms of etiquette, I would say that it varies from pursuit to pursuit.

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So turkey hunting, for example, any movement at all, you know, any, you can't really talk

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and you just got to be dialed.

374
00:25:39,380 --> 00:25:42,840
So it's like, what I usually do is like I'll be full camouflage.

375
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I'll have, you know, my camera's in full camouflage.

376
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:52,200
And usually the, I've even cut like custom gloves where my entire hand on my camera will

377
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:56,160
be covered, but I'll cut a thumb hole so I can still, you know, like do settings and

378
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,200
stuff on the background of the camera.

379
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,320
But you got to be super conscious about any quick movements.

380
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,840
Like you can't, it's not like a, oh, I got to like, you know, move stuff around to get

381
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:06,840
this.

382
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:11,040
It's like, you got to be, any movement you make, you got to do it in like milliseconds,

383
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,560
super slow motion, like no sound, no anything.

384
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:18,640
But then there are other hunts like waterfowl hunting where you can kind of be a little

385
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:23,400
more casual, you know, you kind of be sitting in the blind with guys talking, laughing,

386
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,400
you know, a lot of people who cook food in the blind.

387
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:27,920
So it's kind of situational.

388
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:33,540
And as someone who is still learning a lot about hunting myself, I feel like I'm doing

389
00:26:33,540 --> 00:26:37,840
a good job at maintaining that etiquette across different, you know, hunting trips to make

390
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:42,920
sure that I'm not detracting from anyone else's hunt by being there documenting photos or

391
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:43,920
video.

392
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:50,840
All the guys in my church, they go hunting a lot and they take it very serious.

393
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:56,360
And so I couldn't imagine other hunters feelings being photographed.

394
00:26:56,360 --> 00:26:58,960
That's why I was asking you, is there etiquette?

395
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:03,680
And so for you, it's a situational thing.

396
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:07,400
Has there ever been any bad experiences when taking photos of other hunters?

397
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:11,680
I wouldn't say there's been any bad experiences.

398
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:18,280
There's definitely like, there's the experience of, you know, if we're doing something for

399
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:23,840
a client project, hunting is a weird thing because, you know, in order to capture marketing

400
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:28,760
assets for hunting, everyone thinks that you need to actually like be successful on your

401
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:29,760
hunt.

402
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:32,640
And in our mind, like that's not always the case.

403
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:37,680
Like a large part of hunting for us is the experience of being out there.

404
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:43,360
And that's honestly what sells people on if we're trying to market a specific product

405
00:27:43,360 --> 00:27:48,240
or a service is the experience that you have over the course of your entire trip and not

406
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:53,380
just that one split second moment where you are either successful or not successful on

407
00:27:53,380 --> 00:27:55,480
your hunt.

408
00:27:55,480 --> 00:28:02,960
And I mean, some people also, if we're hiring a guide or hiring a hunting influencer to

409
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:07,600
kind of be like the main subject of a specific project, like sometimes they could take it

410
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:13,080
to, they're too hard on themselves if they, you know, aren't able to be successful in

411
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:14,080
their hunt.

412
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:18,960
But, you know, for us, it's like we get just as much, you know, good content and honestly

413
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:24,440
enjoyment out of being out there regardless of how the hunt actually ends up.

414
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:29,640
So I wouldn't say there's been any ever a bad situation, but sometimes, I mean, it's

415
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,120
a very, hunting is a very mental thing as well.

416
00:28:33,120 --> 00:28:34,120
So right.

417
00:28:34,120 --> 00:28:40,080
I mean, I listened to Cameron Haynes and he was talking about his experiences when he

418
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:47,280
doesn't come back with a hunt, how some may view that as disrespectful by not coming back

419
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:48,280
with your tag.

420
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:49,280
Yeah.

421
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:54,160
What's he said not respectful by not coming back with your tag?

422
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,280
He shot the deer.

423
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:03,240
He shot the deer or it was a buck and then he shot it, but didn't kill it.

424
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,960
And he was on reservation land.

425
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:07,520
Oh, yeah.

426
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:08,520
Yeah.

427
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:12,200
So obviously it's never, never ideal.

428
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:17,360
And that's probably the hardest mentally that is, I won't even try without it.

429
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:24,360
That is the hardest thing about hunting, but that's also what goes into everyone's, everyone

430
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:29,980
who's a responsible hunter puts in prep work year round, like even during the season, out

431
00:29:29,980 --> 00:29:36,360
of season, pre-season, after season, like to make sure that your gear, your skills are

432
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,380
as dialed as they can be.

433
00:29:38,380 --> 00:29:43,700
So the chances of doing that when you're out in the field are as small as possible.

434
00:29:43,700 --> 00:29:45,960
Does that solve the problem every time?

435
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:46,960
No.

436
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:51,280
But as hunters, it's like, that's something that we are well aware of going into every

437
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:57,240
single season and every single encounter with wildlife is making sure we do our part the

438
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:02,760
entire, every other day in the year, other than that day, to make sure that we're being

439
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:07,920
respectful of what we're doing and to basically do our job to make sure that, you know, having

440
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:09,560
a bad shot doesn't happen.

441
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:16,240
Jack, what are some common myths in the hunting industry that people may not know?

442
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:21,440
I would say the most common myth is the bat is kind of what we were just talking about

443
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:25,080
with taking the life of an animal.

444
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:29,600
And I feel like that's what always comes back to, you know, whether you agree with hunting

445
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:37,500
or disagree with hunting, that's the key, the key hot button issue is how are you okay

446
00:30:37,500 --> 00:30:39,500
with taking the life?

447
00:30:39,500 --> 00:30:42,000
And I would say there's so much more than that.

448
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:46,640
And any hunter, at least the hunters that I align myself with and the hunters that I

449
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,520
know, like that's not how we picture things.

450
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:56,600
And it's more so about, you know, conservation and how many animals can your specific area

451
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:57,720
hold?

452
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,120
What does the population look like in your area?

453
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:04,520
You know, are there, what's the predator issue look like?

454
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:09,760
And I feel like there's so many things behind the scenes that just get left behind the scenes

455
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:15,000
because everyone is so clearly focused on taking the life of an animal.

456
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:21,580
So for me, that's kind of, that was what that started in the sky documentary, which I highly

457
00:31:21,580 --> 00:31:27,440
recommend it's on Netflix to anyone who is interested in hunting or wants to learn more

458
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:31,480
about why hunters go out there and do what we do.

459
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,600
I highly recommend watching that documentary.

460
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:42,480
But I would say of all the myths, it's not about, you know, taking the life of an animal,

461
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:47,960
it's more about making sure that that animal's population is controlled, making sure that

462
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:55,000
it's, you know, what we're doing is benefiting the environments that we go and hunt in.

463
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,720
And it also goes all the way back down to like the financial aspect of, you know, when

464
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:06,400
you look at conservation, you know, the most money being funneled into wildlife and habitat

465
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:12,000
management is coming from people who are hunters and fishermen.

466
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:17,200
The money we spend on all the gear and equipment that we buy, a percentage of that goes straight

467
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,760
back into wildlife and habitat conservation.

468
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:25,360
So that's something that I feel like also gets overlooked because people are so concerned

469
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:31,640
with that hot button issue of the main objective of hunting and having a successful hunt.

470
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:38,760
So understanding, for my understanding that sometimes there is an areas in the forest,

471
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:45,440
desert, river, it's that there can be too much of an animal because there's a lack of

472
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:47,120
predators.

473
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:54,840
So then these hunters come in and they lower the population of, let's just say the deer.

474
00:32:54,840 --> 00:33:01,680
And so then that environment ecosystem of the grass, the trees, everything like that

475
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:03,440
can thrive more.

476
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:10,400
And are those experiences or topics that you guys discuss amongst your circle of hunters?

477
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:11,400
Yeah.

478
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,400
And I mean, that would be just one situation.

479
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,080
There's obviously, there's the opposite of that.

480
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:20,060
So you've got situations out in North America where you've got, you know, sometimes too

481
00:33:20,060 --> 00:33:24,320
many predators or you've got, you know, too many deer or something.

482
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:30,480
So I know in Ohio specifically, like our deer population is kind of, I don't want to say

483
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:35,080
it's out of control, but our deer density here is insane.

484
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:40,360
So like when I drank, when I actually counted a couple of weeks ago, when I made my two

485
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:45,600
hour drive from Columbus, Ohio to Cleveland, Ohio, there were 27 deer dead on the side

486
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:46,600
of the road.

487
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:47,600
Oh wow.

488
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:53,800
And when you think about that and it's like, there's, yeah, there's not enough space for

489
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,340
them given their population size.

490
00:33:57,340 --> 00:34:03,120
And so it's like with hunters, we can go in and help manage that population.

491
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:08,240
And not only all that food is also being, it's not going to waste basically by sitting

492
00:34:08,240 --> 00:34:10,220
on the side of the road.

493
00:34:10,220 --> 00:34:14,760
So when a hunter harvests a deer, we take it home, we use every piece of that deer.

494
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:18,800
And then you've also got, you know, systems that are set up by the Department of Natural

495
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:26,060
Resources so people can get tags and then provide that meat to shelters or other charitable

496
00:34:26,060 --> 00:34:30,980
organizations that then provide that food to people who maybe can't afford that food.

497
00:34:30,980 --> 00:34:36,680
So there's a whole top to bottom funnel down of hunting, whether it's from a conservation

498
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:42,320
aspect, from a community aspect, to a financial aspect that people just don't, they're not

499
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:46,440
aware of because when you look at the number of hunters in the United States over the last

500
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:51,260
hundred years, it's just a drop off.

501
00:34:51,260 --> 00:34:56,760
So it's just not, it's outcome of knowledge as much as it used to be.

502
00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:02,420
And that's kind of the interesting idea is like hunting now, it seems like it's abnormal,

503
00:35:02,420 --> 00:35:07,960
but when you look at, you know, humans as a whole, it's abnormal not to hunt, if that

504
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:08,960
makes sense.

505
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:12,440
And that's ripped straight from that Stars in the Sky documentary and Cedar and L.I.

506
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:19,540
won't take credit for that, but it's, we've been hunting as a human species for much longer

507
00:35:19,540 --> 00:35:22,580
than we've not been hunting, if that makes sense.

508
00:35:22,580 --> 00:35:30,140
I didn't realize how deep the community of hunters went in terms of hunting, harvesting

509
00:35:30,140 --> 00:35:36,140
the animal and giving that food source to someone who may not be able to afford the

510
00:35:36,140 --> 00:35:37,140
food.

511
00:35:37,140 --> 00:35:39,540
I mean, that's a big deal.

512
00:35:39,540 --> 00:35:42,100
People don't talk about that.

513
00:35:42,100 --> 00:35:43,700
At least I haven't heard about that part.

514
00:35:43,700 --> 00:35:48,320
I know about the part that hunters are conservationist, but I didn't know about the part that they're

515
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:52,620
helping give back in those ways to people.

516
00:35:52,620 --> 00:35:56,100
Yeah, absolutely.

517
00:35:56,100 --> 00:36:03,100
And then like, especially in the Midwest, where we just have huge populations of deer,

518
00:36:03,100 --> 00:36:04,100
that's a huge thing.

519
00:36:04,100 --> 00:36:09,180
It's like homeless shelters in my community are serving venison year round because hunters

520
00:36:09,180 --> 00:36:14,140
are bringing in deer, they're butchering it, you know, people are making furniture and

521
00:36:14,140 --> 00:36:15,140
sure.

522
00:36:15,140 --> 00:36:19,900
They're using deer heights to then use for upholstery on furniture and stuff like that.

523
00:36:19,900 --> 00:36:26,060
So we're literally using the deer from head to tail year round around here, just based

524
00:36:26,060 --> 00:36:28,100
on how many deer we have.

525
00:36:28,100 --> 00:36:37,040
So could you walk us through a favorite experience, either as a photographer or a hunter while

526
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:43,900
you were out there in the Ohio forests or wetlands?

527
00:36:43,900 --> 00:36:47,820
What was the experience that you just remember the most?

528
00:36:47,820 --> 00:36:57,300
Yeah, that's the thing is being from Ohio, I feel like Ohio has a weird reputation outside

529
00:36:57,300 --> 00:36:58,940
of Ohio, if that makes sense.

530
00:36:58,940 --> 00:37:05,180
So we're very much aware of all the memes and jokes and whatever about being from Ohio.

531
00:37:05,180 --> 00:37:06,780
I'm kind of proud to be from Ohio.

532
00:37:06,780 --> 00:37:08,940
I'm a true Buckeye for life.

533
00:37:08,940 --> 00:37:14,220
But it's a cool state and I feel like it sometimes gets a bad rap.

534
00:37:14,220 --> 00:37:17,140
But we've got a lot of cool stuff to offer.

535
00:37:17,140 --> 00:37:21,460
If you go down to southern Ohio, it's very much in line with what you're the kind of

536
00:37:21,460 --> 00:37:25,740
landscape and environment you're getting in West Virginia or Kentucky with the mountainous

537
00:37:25,740 --> 00:37:28,340
rolling hills.

538
00:37:28,340 --> 00:37:33,620
When you go up to, we've got Lake Erie to our north and we've got the full coastline

539
00:37:33,620 --> 00:37:39,060
and kind of that beach and we have a lot of waterfowl action up there.

540
00:37:39,060 --> 00:37:44,020
Then as you head out to the western part of the state, it's kind of that Great Plains type,

541
00:37:44,020 --> 00:37:45,820
very agriculture heavy.

542
00:37:45,820 --> 00:37:52,020
So we've really got a lot of different areas inside the state of Ohio and there's a lot

543
00:37:52,020 --> 00:37:55,900
of cool stuff to do here that I feel like people don't necessarily know about.

544
00:37:55,900 --> 00:38:02,040
It's definitely not as Instagram worthy as the western national parks and everything

545
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:06,460
that I see a lot of the people that I follow on Instagram are out doing with easy access.

546
00:38:06,460 --> 00:38:13,360
But I feel like it's almost being from an area that doesn't have this outright just

547
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:14,980
majestic beauty.

548
00:38:14,980 --> 00:38:20,140
Not to say that Ohio doesn't have majestic beauty, but it almost makes you work a little

549
00:38:20,140 --> 00:38:26,300
bit harder to make Ohio look as cool as other states in the United States.

550
00:38:26,300 --> 00:38:32,020
Could you share with us what your favorite or go to set up is when you're going out there

551
00:38:32,020 --> 00:38:33,020
hunting?

552
00:38:33,020 --> 00:38:36,100
I know you have to have a specific type of gear.

553
00:38:36,100 --> 00:38:37,540
I know I watched one of your YouTube videos.

554
00:38:37,540 --> 00:38:41,580
You even had a crane for one of your videos.

555
00:38:41,580 --> 00:38:42,580
Yeah.

556
00:38:42,580 --> 00:38:43,580
Yeah.

557
00:38:43,580 --> 00:38:50,740
I would say my go to camera body is always going to be my Canon R5.

558
00:38:50,740 --> 00:38:55,780
And then lens selection is usually, usually depends on the hunt.

559
00:38:55,780 --> 00:39:00,460
I would say the two, I guess the three lenses that I bring most often are going to be a

560
00:39:00,460 --> 00:39:05,500
50 millimeter, a 24 to 105, and then a 70 to 200.

561
00:39:05,500 --> 00:39:09,020
Just to kind of capture each one of those stages of the hunt kind of.

562
00:39:09,020 --> 00:39:15,380
So the 50 millimeter is going to capture all those close details, portrait shots, gear.

563
00:39:15,380 --> 00:39:19,460
I like to focus on people's hands a lot when they're hunting, either with what they're

564
00:39:19,460 --> 00:39:24,820
holding or some kind of action they're doing, whether it's calling.

565
00:39:24,820 --> 00:39:29,500
The 24 to 105 is usually a great all around lens, whether I need to get close up shots

566
00:39:29,500 --> 00:39:34,860
or I can also do some landscape stuff with that one.

567
00:39:34,860 --> 00:39:39,860
And then the 70 to 200 is great for reaching out to pick up some piece of wildlife out

568
00:39:39,860 --> 00:39:43,720
in the distance or a hunter and out, you know, farther away.

569
00:39:43,720 --> 00:39:50,280
So I would say for the most part I'm usually handheld, but for turkey season I've got a

570
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:54,740
monopod that I like using.

571
00:39:54,740 --> 00:39:57,700
And yeah, that's kind of the setup.

572
00:39:57,700 --> 00:40:03,020
And then draping usually some type of camo pattern over top of the camera, matching that

573
00:40:03,020 --> 00:40:07,660
to whatever season you're in, whether that's a bright green early spring pattern or more

574
00:40:07,660 --> 00:40:15,580
so that tan khaki color for late season waterfowl or even white if you're hunting in the snow.

575
00:40:15,580 --> 00:40:20,820
So you really have to camouflage your camera gear as well.

576
00:40:20,820 --> 00:40:22,860
Can they really see that?

577
00:40:22,860 --> 00:40:24,860
Yep.

578
00:40:24,860 --> 00:40:28,820
Turkeys especially can.

579
00:40:28,820 --> 00:40:34,820
The turkeys are super visual, like to the point where, like I mentioned earlier, any

580
00:40:34,820 --> 00:40:38,180
type of movement at all will set a turkey off.

581
00:40:38,180 --> 00:40:42,300
So yeah, definitely for turkeys.

582
00:40:42,300 --> 00:40:47,660
For waterfowl you don't have to camouflage as much because usually you are camouflaged

583
00:40:47,660 --> 00:40:51,580
as a whole inside of your blind.

584
00:40:51,580 --> 00:40:57,540
For big game and whitetail it kind of depends on the situation.

585
00:40:57,540 --> 00:41:02,140
If you're more like run and gun out chasing an animal, you definitely don't want to be

586
00:41:02,140 --> 00:41:05,260
like...

587
00:41:05,260 --> 00:41:09,280
I feel like you can get away with not camouflaging stuff just because you're moving more quickly

588
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:10,620
doesn't make that much of a difference.

589
00:41:10,620 --> 00:41:17,520
But if you're more in a set location and kind of sitting for long amounts of time, it's

590
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:24,060
helpful to be camouflaged in just to keep that consistency and they don't really recognize

591
00:41:24,060 --> 00:41:26,460
anything if they're coming into your area.

592
00:41:26,460 --> 00:41:27,460
Awesome.

593
00:41:27,460 --> 00:41:33,180
So I mean, you were talking earlier about how Ohio may not be the most popular beautiful

594
00:41:33,180 --> 00:41:37,380
place by Instagram's point of view.

595
00:41:37,380 --> 00:41:44,460
How do you personally, Jack West, stay inspired living in Ohio?

596
00:41:44,460 --> 00:41:45,460
Yeah.

597
00:41:45,460 --> 00:41:51,340
I think honestly by following a lot of other accounts like Unic and seeing what other people

598
00:41:51,340 --> 00:41:57,380
are doing across the US and I feel like we're kind of running in similar circles and we

599
00:41:57,380 --> 00:41:59,980
follow and interact with on social media.

600
00:41:59,980 --> 00:42:04,500
So it's cool to see what other people are doing and it's like, is that something that

601
00:42:04,500 --> 00:42:10,700
I could maybe put my own spin on here in Ohio or vice versa is like, if what I'm doing here

602
00:42:10,700 --> 00:42:15,900
is our way that I can provide a little creative boost or inspiration to someone who's maybe

603
00:42:15,900 --> 00:42:19,980
living in a different part of the country.

604
00:42:19,980 --> 00:42:27,300
I take a lot of inspiration from people and other type of industries and sports and like

605
00:42:27,300 --> 00:42:32,900
I love the whole like action sports, snowboarding, that stuff as well.

606
00:42:32,900 --> 00:42:36,540
So is there any opportunities for me to like bring that stuff in?

607
00:42:36,540 --> 00:42:39,500
Obviously I love landscape photography.

608
00:42:39,500 --> 00:42:45,940
It's kind of hard around me because I don't really have any, I don't know, cool landscape

609
00:42:45,940 --> 00:42:46,940
near me.

610
00:42:46,940 --> 00:42:50,100
I usually have to drive a little bit if I want to even get to like a waterfall or a

611
00:42:50,100 --> 00:42:51,660
lake or something.

612
00:42:51,660 --> 00:42:56,860
So that's the thing is it's sometimes hard to make cornfields look cool all the time,

613
00:42:56,860 --> 00:42:57,860
but it's possible.

614
00:42:57,860 --> 00:43:02,940
Then I feel like it's, if you do do it correctly, you can provide a little bit of a creative

615
00:43:02,940 --> 00:43:09,380
spark to someone who's maybe not as well versed in cornfield photography as I am.

616
00:43:09,380 --> 00:43:17,620
So right, but in your photos, at least I like to think that a lot of other people do this

617
00:43:17,620 --> 00:43:18,620
too.

618
00:43:18,620 --> 00:43:23,500
I dissect a photo when I look at it and I try to see if there's a story told and you,

619
00:43:23,500 --> 00:43:29,520
you live in Ohio, you realized, okay, I don't live in this crazy picturesque place.

620
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:35,940
So you transformed it into telling more tight knit stories, whether it's a hunt, it's a

621
00:43:35,940 --> 00:43:40,180
fishing trip, it's driving in the mud.

622
00:43:40,180 --> 00:43:44,620
When did you make that transition to start telling more stories through your photos versus

623
00:43:44,620 --> 00:43:47,900
just taking that grand landscape?

624
00:43:47,900 --> 00:43:50,940
Yeah, that's a great question.

625
00:43:50,940 --> 00:43:56,500
I would say once I started dialing in my editing style, kind of, which, I mean, I grew up in

626
00:43:56,500 --> 00:43:59,020
the golden age of like Peter McKinnon.

627
00:43:59,020 --> 00:44:03,860
So I would say that Peter's always going to be my like, now I want influence on how I

628
00:44:03,860 --> 00:44:10,100
like developed my, not only my editing style, but life photography style as well.

629
00:44:10,100 --> 00:44:14,340
Which I, that should come as no surprise to anyone who's ever scrolled through my feed.

630
00:44:14,340 --> 00:44:19,940
It's very dark, grainy, very moody.

631
00:44:19,940 --> 00:44:23,100
I like to take a lot of pictures of Ford Raptors.

632
00:44:23,100 --> 00:44:32,260
So yeah, I feel like once I started dialing that in and obviously he's put on a lot of

633
00:44:32,260 --> 00:44:38,900
content on telling a story through your photography and the whole Pete's pirate life theme.

634
00:44:38,900 --> 00:44:43,620
And I don't know, that just really spoke to me as a creative person.

635
00:44:43,620 --> 00:44:44,900
And it's kind of cool.

636
00:44:44,900 --> 00:44:47,780
I mean, he's from Ontario, Canada.

637
00:44:47,780 --> 00:44:53,860
So that's obviously a super cool place, but it's definitely not like a, I don't know,

638
00:44:53,860 --> 00:44:56,260
like a majestic place like we were talking about.

639
00:44:56,260 --> 00:44:59,460
He's not living in the mountains or like that.

640
00:44:59,460 --> 00:45:03,300
So I mean, he has to work as well to make cool creative content when he's at home in

641
00:45:03,300 --> 00:45:05,140
Ontario.

642
00:45:05,140 --> 00:45:09,660
So yeah, it's kind of just a, it's a little extra challenge.

643
00:45:09,660 --> 00:45:16,460
And I feel like if I can tell a story of something that may not seem like it's a, I don't know,

644
00:45:16,460 --> 00:45:22,140
like I'm, I don't know how to really describe this, but telling a story, even if it's what

645
00:45:22,140 --> 00:45:28,180
someone puts you consider to be like a boring story and making a boring story look cool,

646
00:45:28,180 --> 00:45:29,540
honestly.

647
00:45:29,540 --> 00:45:35,260
So every time I talk to people, when they complain to me that they don't live in a cool

648
00:45:35,260 --> 00:45:42,860
place, I literally reference you every single time because you're the first person that

649
00:45:42,860 --> 00:45:51,180
comes to mind who leaves no excuse is for taking boring photos in a boring place.

650
00:45:51,180 --> 00:45:57,500
Could you help people who are listening, uh, understand better how to tell a story more

651
00:45:57,500 --> 00:46:01,900
effectively and maybe they live in a non-beautiful place.

652
00:46:01,900 --> 00:46:06,420
How can you improve your storytelling skills?

653
00:46:06,420 --> 00:46:12,740
Yeah, no, I mean, that's a, that's an honor, honestly.

654
00:46:12,740 --> 00:46:18,300
So and I'll, I'll admit, like I definitely went through the phase of like, Oh my God,

655
00:46:18,300 --> 00:46:19,740
I gotta, I gotta get out of here.

656
00:46:19,740 --> 00:46:20,740
I gotta get out of Ohio.

657
00:46:20,740 --> 00:46:21,740
It's so boring.

658
00:46:21,740 --> 00:46:25,580
And I feel like even when you go on social media and people talk about Ohio, they're

659
00:46:25,580 --> 00:46:28,780
like, no, thankfully I got out of there.

660
00:46:28,780 --> 00:46:33,460
I'm so happy to not live in Ohio anymore, but it's like, I feel like all these, you

661
00:46:33,460 --> 00:46:39,340
know, the flyover States and the Midwest and stuff, they get a bad rap because every creative

662
00:46:39,340 --> 00:46:45,100
person leaves and they go somewhere else and they kind of, you know, go to where they think

663
00:46:45,100 --> 00:46:46,940
they can be more creative.

664
00:46:46,940 --> 00:46:51,700
It's like, so this side of Ohio and the Midwest and all the other States where you don't hear

665
00:46:51,700 --> 00:46:56,780
about any creative people that are coming from me, it's because everyone left and no

666
00:46:56,780 --> 00:47:02,020
one's here to kind of tell the story and showcase what these States have to offer.

667
00:47:02,020 --> 00:47:04,820
So I mean, with me, it's like, I'm going to stick around here.

668
00:47:04,820 --> 00:47:09,380
And when you look at what other people are posting, it's, you know, are they posting?

669
00:47:09,380 --> 00:47:14,820
Yeah, they have a cool background, but just replace, you know, mountains with a forest

670
00:47:14,820 --> 00:47:20,000
or replace mountains with, you know, a beach on one of the great lakes or, you know, whatever

671
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:24,780
is unique to where you are at and you're a part of the world.

672
00:47:24,780 --> 00:47:27,260
You know, make it, make it cool, make it interesting.

673
00:47:27,260 --> 00:47:31,340
So whether that's through a different editing style, whether you want to get like props

674
00:47:31,340 --> 00:47:32,340
involved.

675
00:47:32,340 --> 00:47:37,180
I know a lot of people like have started doing like mirrors and you know, lighting techniques

676
00:47:37,180 --> 00:47:41,580
and all that stuff has been super popular over the last couple of years on social media.

677
00:47:41,580 --> 00:47:46,060
But for me, it's kind of the editing style and telling a story about a, even if it's

678
00:47:46,060 --> 00:47:51,820
a super specific event, like a raccoon crawling on a tree towards you or something like, I

679
00:47:51,820 --> 00:47:58,180
don't know, how can you make, you know, what outward looking in seems like a not that interesting

680
00:47:58,180 --> 00:47:59,660
thing.

681
00:47:59,660 --> 00:48:02,060
Be creative and turn it into a story.

682
00:48:02,060 --> 00:48:03,660
Perfect transition to your editing style though.

683
00:48:03,660 --> 00:48:06,060
That answers my question perfectly.

684
00:48:06,060 --> 00:48:13,500
But to transition to your editing style, why did you decide to stick with one style?

685
00:48:13,500 --> 00:48:17,660
A lot of artists seem to be sporadic.

686
00:48:17,660 --> 00:48:20,060
Like they change a lot.

687
00:48:20,060 --> 00:48:23,100
They get inspiration based on how they're feeling.

688
00:48:23,100 --> 00:48:28,460
You choose to stay the same color style through in all the way through.

689
00:48:28,460 --> 00:48:29,460
Yeah.

690
00:48:29,460 --> 00:48:35,260
Now I definitely think that having that, I don't know, I've talked about it a lot on

691
00:48:35,260 --> 00:48:41,140
like one, my own Instagram, but that cohesive style, that's a lot of what we talked about

692
00:48:41,140 --> 00:48:46,580
with other clients and stuff is if you can develop kind of like what you said where it's

693
00:48:46,580 --> 00:48:49,340
like when you look at my Instagram, you can tell that it came from me.

694
00:48:49,340 --> 00:48:52,860
Like that's kind of our goal with clients as well.

695
00:48:52,860 --> 00:48:58,200
And developing like a brand identity that's super strong to increase, you know, recognition

696
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:03,060
in the community and having people able to tell where something came from with audio

697
00:49:03,060 --> 00:49:08,940
and actually saying like, yeah, this is who posted this or this is who edited it.

698
00:49:08,940 --> 00:49:11,380
Yeah, I don't know.

699
00:49:11,380 --> 00:49:15,500
What was the second half of your question there?

700
00:49:15,500 --> 00:49:19,580
Why you chose to stick with one style of your photography?

701
00:49:19,580 --> 00:49:20,580
Yeah.

702
00:49:20,580 --> 00:49:21,580
Yeah.

703
00:49:21,580 --> 00:49:29,500
I guess so kind of to go back to that, I guess like it almost helps me get out.

704
00:49:29,500 --> 00:49:35,340
Like when I was editing each photo differently, you almost have too many options to choose

705
00:49:35,340 --> 00:49:40,620
from and that can kind of lead to almost like a creative rut almost when you get to a point

706
00:49:40,620 --> 00:49:43,460
where you're not sure exactly how you want to edit something.

707
00:49:43,460 --> 00:49:50,700
Whereas now that I have this style, I kind of know going in almost like garg rails of

708
00:49:50,700 --> 00:49:53,060
like where I want to go with it.

709
00:49:53,060 --> 00:49:58,400
And it allows me to kind of push some boundaries in those, in color choices and get super granular

710
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:03,260
into like, you know, how much sharpening or how much clarity or how much texture, how

711
00:50:03,260 --> 00:50:07,940
much desaturation or hue differences, variations am I going to put into this specific image?

712
00:50:07,940 --> 00:50:14,220
But I know cohesively it's going to stay in my realm of editing style, but you can still

713
00:50:14,220 --> 00:50:22,740
nail down to every little detail inside of each individual photo.

714
00:50:22,740 --> 00:50:23,740
But it also helps you.

715
00:50:23,740 --> 00:50:27,100
It's not like overload where once you take a photo, you're like, oh, I don't know how

716
00:50:27,100 --> 00:50:28,100
I'm going to edit this.

717
00:50:28,100 --> 00:50:29,660
There's so many different directions I can do.

718
00:50:29,660 --> 00:50:31,780
And then you try something and you don't like it.

719
00:50:31,780 --> 00:50:33,140
You let it sit for a day.

720
00:50:33,140 --> 00:50:34,140
You come back to it.

721
00:50:34,140 --> 00:50:35,140
You try something.

722
00:50:35,140 --> 00:50:36,140
You don't like it.

723
00:50:36,140 --> 00:50:37,140
You let it sit for another day.

724
00:50:37,140 --> 00:50:39,260
And then all of a sudden it's been a month since you took that photo.

725
00:50:39,260 --> 00:50:41,660
Haven't gotten an editing, edit on it that you liked.

726
00:50:41,660 --> 00:50:43,300
It never sees the light of day.

727
00:50:43,300 --> 00:50:48,020
And then you kind of fall into that, you know, you end up not posting or not being consistent

728
00:50:48,020 --> 00:50:53,060
because you just kind of psyched yourself out and you don't know how you want to edit

729
00:50:53,060 --> 00:50:54,060
it.

730
00:50:54,060 --> 00:50:57,720
Whereas with me, it's like, I know it's going to fall into my style, but I can still be

731
00:50:57,720 --> 00:51:01,780
creative with, you know, those little details and how I edit the photo.

732
00:51:01,780 --> 00:51:05,100
So you talk about the challenges of not having a style.

733
00:51:05,100 --> 00:51:07,740
What are some challenges of having a style?

734
00:51:07,740 --> 00:51:10,580
Yeah, kind of similar, similar vibe.

735
00:51:10,580 --> 00:51:15,140
And for me, it's, I kind of like having a style as opposed to not having it.

736
00:51:15,140 --> 00:51:21,460
I mean, obviously people will say, well, I can't, obviously not every photo that I take

737
00:51:21,460 --> 00:51:24,780
will look good with my editing style.

738
00:51:24,780 --> 00:51:26,780
And I'm kind of okay with that.

739
00:51:26,780 --> 00:51:32,260
And I feel like a lot of the photos I take, I take them based on how I think they're going

740
00:51:32,260 --> 00:51:34,620
to look when I do edit them.

741
00:51:34,620 --> 00:51:38,620
And that kind of has, my editing style has actually helped shape my photography technique,

742
00:51:38,620 --> 00:51:41,260
if that makes sense.

743
00:51:41,260 --> 00:51:46,100
I kind of know like, you know, how much of a, how much skin tone do I want in a photo?

744
00:51:46,100 --> 00:51:47,980
How much of the sky do I want in a photo?

745
00:51:47,980 --> 00:51:50,780
Do I want to try to frame the sky out entirely?

746
00:51:50,780 --> 00:51:55,860
Because if it's a blue sky day, you'll notice in my eye feed, I don't have any blue at all.

747
00:51:55,860 --> 00:51:58,000
There's zero.

748
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:00,860
My blue saturation slider is zero.

749
00:52:00,860 --> 00:52:05,540
So blue has been the one color that I just don't, I know how to edit it.

750
00:52:05,540 --> 00:52:09,460
And obviously I added it differently for client work and stuff.

751
00:52:09,460 --> 00:52:13,340
My client work is a lot different than my personal work.

752
00:52:13,340 --> 00:52:17,380
But for me in my personal feed, blue does not work.

753
00:52:17,380 --> 00:52:21,540
So any photo that I take, or if I go on a shoot and it's blue skies, I'm taking photos

754
00:52:21,540 --> 00:52:24,940
specifically that do not include the sky.

755
00:52:24,940 --> 00:52:26,460
I'm getting super detailed shots.

756
00:52:26,460 --> 00:52:31,540
I'm trying to focus on reds and browns and greens that I know will fit well with my editing

757
00:52:31,540 --> 00:52:36,780
style into my feed and win.

758
00:52:36,780 --> 00:52:41,460
I feel like that was kind of the thing that people say, having a style is you can't do

759
00:52:41,460 --> 00:52:43,580
what you want all the time.

760
00:52:43,580 --> 00:52:49,100
And I would flip that around to those same people and be like, I can do what I want.

761
00:52:49,100 --> 00:52:54,700
And I just choose to stay within that realm and kind of take photos that I think are cool

762
00:52:54,700 --> 00:53:00,860
and kind of work backwards almost to fit them into my editing style, rather than just taking

763
00:53:00,860 --> 00:53:04,700
generalized photo and trying to slap my edit onto it.

764
00:53:04,700 --> 00:53:11,140
Those photos were kind of pre-planned from an idea into the full editing process and

765
00:53:11,140 --> 00:53:12,740
then eventually end up on the feed.

766
00:53:12,740 --> 00:53:17,340
Jack, there's so much to dive into that and to digest for people listening.

767
00:53:17,340 --> 00:53:20,940
That just, everything you said there got me excited.

768
00:53:20,940 --> 00:53:27,740
This is start back from you're shooting a specific way because you know you're going

769
00:53:27,740 --> 00:53:30,540
to edit it a specific way.

770
00:53:30,540 --> 00:53:33,180
So what's your thought process?

771
00:53:33,180 --> 00:53:38,180
Are you planning your shots before you even go out into the field?

772
00:53:38,180 --> 00:53:39,180
Yeah.

773
00:53:39,180 --> 00:53:47,100
I mean, let's, I went down to use like a random hunt, for example.

774
00:53:47,100 --> 00:53:54,540
I was on a pheasant hunt in December and it was in Ohio and it was what most people will

775
00:53:54,540 --> 00:53:56,220
consider to be a beautiful day.

776
00:53:56,220 --> 00:54:00,440
Not on the sky, sunny blue skies.

777
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:05,900
For me, that's like the worst possible day for photography.

778
00:54:05,900 --> 00:54:09,100
I am very much a moody type person.

779
00:54:09,100 --> 00:54:10,540
I love overcast.

780
00:54:10,540 --> 00:54:11,940
I love clouds.

781
00:54:11,940 --> 00:54:19,220
I love like heavy rainstorms rolling in like dark, evenly lit.

782
00:54:19,220 --> 00:54:23,060
And so a bright and sunny day with not a cloud in the sky.

783
00:54:23,060 --> 00:54:26,780
I knew going into that shoot, yeah, I was definitely going to have to be creative when

784
00:54:26,780 --> 00:54:31,140
any of these photos then end up on my feed.

785
00:54:31,140 --> 00:54:34,460
And I was also shooting, I was shooting for a client that day, but also it was kind of

786
00:54:34,460 --> 00:54:35,900
like a personal hunt.

787
00:54:35,900 --> 00:54:39,700
So I knew I was going to have some client work and then some personal stuff that I would

788
00:54:39,700 --> 00:54:42,740
then repurpose on my own Instagram.

789
00:54:42,740 --> 00:54:47,660
And so going into that, I got the, I made sure to check all of those boxes off the client

790
00:54:47,660 --> 00:54:51,960
checklist to make sure I got landscape shots, detailed shots.

791
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:57,020
And once that was done, then I really dialed into what kind of shots can I get here that

792
00:54:57,020 --> 00:54:58,860
will then fit my Instagram?

793
00:54:58,860 --> 00:55:05,900
And a lot of them were like stuff of dogs, bird dogs going after flushing birds.

794
00:55:05,900 --> 00:55:11,460
I got a lot of close up detailed shots of guys, you know, holding pheasants, hands on

795
00:55:11,460 --> 00:55:14,540
dogs.

796
00:55:14,540 --> 00:55:21,620
A lot of detailed shots of like, so upland hunting has a lot of cool like vests and jackets

797
00:55:21,620 --> 00:55:25,380
and gear that you can kind of take photographs of.

798
00:55:25,380 --> 00:55:26,740
And it's got a lot of cool texture to it.

799
00:55:26,740 --> 00:55:32,160
A lot of it's like wax, cotton, super cool texture vibe.

800
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:36,620
So I took a lot of like clothing, detailed shots of like hands and pockets, basically

801
00:55:36,620 --> 00:55:39,340
anything that cut out the sky.

802
00:55:39,340 --> 00:55:42,860
If we were in kind of like a little like gully or valley, there was a section where like

803
00:55:42,860 --> 00:55:46,180
a little creek was running through to ag fields.

804
00:55:46,180 --> 00:55:49,780
So once we were in that little bit of a more shaded area, that's where I really started

805
00:55:49,780 --> 00:55:54,620
to dial in stuff, not having to deal with that harsh sunlight and shadows.

806
00:55:54,620 --> 00:55:59,860
So yeah, it was kind of cool to play around and be like with my identity style, what kind

807
00:55:59,860 --> 00:56:03,300
of shots can I get in a lot of them were those close up detailed shots where I didn't have

808
00:56:03,300 --> 00:56:06,340
to worry about shadows and didn't have to worry about the sky.

809
00:56:06,340 --> 00:56:14,100
I'm just imagining how much you've grown because your style's forced you to think outside the

810
00:56:14,100 --> 00:56:16,780
box.

811
00:56:16,780 --> 00:56:25,820
And how have, what are some challenges you faced thinking outside the box?

812
00:56:25,820 --> 00:56:31,180
Has there ever been a time where you just didn't take a photo or did you, have you always

813
00:56:31,180 --> 00:56:33,780
tried to get something out of it?

814
00:56:33,780 --> 00:56:34,780
Nope.

815
00:56:34,780 --> 00:56:39,820
Yeah, no, my problem has never been not taking photos.

816
00:56:39,820 --> 00:56:47,900
I've got drives and terabytes and just full of photos that honestly they will never see

817
00:56:47,900 --> 00:56:50,580
the light of day, but I know that happened.

818
00:56:50,580 --> 00:56:55,020
And I'll eventually go back and I'll look at stuff from time to time and archive stuff

819
00:56:55,020 --> 00:56:57,500
and I forgot about photos I've taken.

820
00:56:57,500 --> 00:57:00,980
I've repurposed a lot of photos as well.

821
00:57:00,980 --> 00:57:08,260
Like my feed, probably like if we go back and look at my feed as it stands today, the

822
00:57:08,260 --> 00:57:11,020
last photo I posted, I actually took last year.

823
00:57:11,020 --> 00:57:14,620
The raccoon photo was this past fall.

824
00:57:14,620 --> 00:57:17,620
The raptor photo was in January of this year.

825
00:57:17,620 --> 00:57:20,620
So not all of it is like super recent.

826
00:57:20,620 --> 00:57:26,100
And that's something where it kind of takes me, I've got kind of like a big asset backlog

827
00:57:26,100 --> 00:57:30,420
of stuff where I've already edited it and just kind of see like where will this best

828
00:57:30,420 --> 00:57:32,980
work into the feed.

829
00:57:32,980 --> 00:57:36,060
But then when I do go on a cool shoot and like, yeah, I'm going to edit these immediately

830
00:57:36,060 --> 00:57:39,860
and get them up as fast as possible just because I know they're going to work really well and

831
00:57:39,860 --> 00:57:42,780
I really like the photos themselves.

832
00:57:42,780 --> 00:57:47,260
But if I don't have time to go out and shoot my own stuff a lot, that's when I really start

833
00:57:47,260 --> 00:57:50,040
to repurpose old photos.

834
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:54,000
And it's kind of cool to go back and see how I've grown, like you said, as a photographer

835
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:58,420
and with my new editing style, like how do these old photos that I've kind of forgotten

836
00:57:58,420 --> 00:58:02,700
about, you know, how do they develop into something new with the new editing style and

837
00:58:02,700 --> 00:58:06,020
the stuff that I've learned, took those old photos.

838
00:58:06,020 --> 00:58:09,500
Refreshing to hear your perspective.

839
00:58:09,500 --> 00:58:18,540
Recently you just started posting some carousel type posts regarding business, marketing,

840
00:58:18,540 --> 00:58:23,220
branding, tips to help other people.

841
00:58:23,220 --> 00:58:28,580
Why did you start this type of content on your Instagram?

842
00:58:28,580 --> 00:58:30,980
Yeah, that's a great question.

843
00:58:30,980 --> 00:58:35,060
And that took me a while to kind of jump into as well.

844
00:58:35,060 --> 00:58:40,220
I don't know if you guys remember, but I used to do something similar to this last year

845
00:58:40,220 --> 00:58:41,220
a little bit.

846
00:58:41,220 --> 00:58:47,220
It wasn't to the scale that I do it now, but I've always had this almost two sides where

847
00:58:47,220 --> 00:58:52,340
it's like I've got my creative side and then I've also got my business analytical strategy

848
00:58:52,340 --> 00:58:53,340
side.

849
00:58:53,340 --> 00:58:58,460
And I've been struggling to find a way to incorporate that into the feed.

850
00:58:58,460 --> 00:59:04,940
And it's kind of a lot of the reason why I didn't do it previously or earlier was because

851
00:59:04,940 --> 00:59:09,860
it wasn't what was going to work with the algorithm.

852
00:59:09,860 --> 00:59:16,820
And when I did post this stuff last year, it got, I almost feel like people intentionally

853
00:59:16,820 --> 00:59:19,580
like if they could unlike it, they would unlike it.

854
00:59:19,580 --> 00:59:24,140
Like it's, I don't know, it just didn't do well.

855
00:59:24,140 --> 00:59:25,620
And it was kind of hard.

856
00:59:25,620 --> 00:59:30,620
And that's a whole another conversation that I'm sure other people have mentioned is like

857
00:59:30,620 --> 00:59:37,060
the mental side of the algorithm changes, reach drop-offs and whatever.

858
00:59:37,060 --> 00:59:41,740
It really messes with your mind and you start to devalue your own work because it's maybe

859
00:59:41,740 --> 00:59:46,580
not getting the same likes it did last year or two years ago or whatever.

860
00:59:46,580 --> 00:59:50,020
And it's like, it's not because your photos are not as good as they used to be.

861
00:59:50,020 --> 00:59:55,620
It's because stuff that's out of your control and getting over that hurdle was part of the

862
00:59:55,620 --> 00:59:58,260
reason why I started doing these business posts again.

863
00:59:58,260 --> 01:00:04,220
And it's like, that's just as much a part of my life as the creative side, the outdoor

864
01:00:04,220 --> 01:00:07,020
still photos and the reels and stuff that I put out.

865
01:00:07,020 --> 01:00:13,860
It's like, if I want my feed to be the full Jack West experiences, who I am as a person,

866
01:00:13,860 --> 01:00:19,460
like that includes those business and strategy and kind of deeper posts in addition to this,

867
01:00:19,460 --> 01:00:22,580
hey, this is a cool photo and I'm going to put it up there.

868
01:00:22,580 --> 01:00:27,460
So getting over that hurdle and not caring so much about how stuff does on the feed.

869
01:00:27,460 --> 01:00:33,780
And I would say that I'm going forward, I'm treating my feed as more of like an art gallery

870
01:00:33,780 --> 01:00:39,280
for my mind and my creative style almost rather than trying to get people, like I'm not trying

871
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:40,620
to grow my Instagram anymore.

872
01:00:40,620 --> 01:00:42,140
I'm kind of giving up on it.

873
01:00:42,140 --> 01:00:45,060
The people don't like it, go ahead and unfollow me.

874
01:00:45,060 --> 01:00:48,420
Like I'm just going to post stuff that I'm passionate about it.

875
01:00:48,420 --> 01:00:49,540
I think it's cool.

876
01:00:49,540 --> 01:00:53,320
So that's kind of where I'm at going forward with Instagram.

877
01:00:53,320 --> 01:00:54,980
I relate to you.

878
01:00:54,980 --> 01:01:02,940
I feel like I am an analytical business person first that's grown into the creative space

879
01:01:02,940 --> 01:01:04,320
over the years.

880
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:08,260
Like I have to force myself to be creative in order to be creative.

881
01:01:08,260 --> 01:01:14,300
Well, it can be creative, but naturally I'm analytical, logical, business minded.

882
01:01:14,300 --> 01:01:21,220
So seeing your posts with a spin of art on them with design, things like that is awesome.

883
01:01:21,220 --> 01:01:26,460
And to dive in a little bit on one of the posts that you talked about, it was about

884
01:01:26,460 --> 01:01:32,100
stresses in Q1 being a business owner of myself.

885
01:01:32,100 --> 01:01:39,560
I don't have some that I answered to for Q1, Q2, Q3, Q4, but for you, did you have to answer

886
01:01:39,560 --> 01:01:45,780
for Q1 and was there any challenges in that terms for you or was that just to help other

887
01:01:45,780 --> 01:01:46,780
people?

888
01:01:46,780 --> 01:01:51,100
Yeah, I mean, definitely we work with a lot of clients and they're very business minded

889
01:01:51,100 --> 01:01:57,540
and focused on quarterly goals and sales revenue and marketing objectives and all that stuff.

890
01:01:57,540 --> 01:02:03,060
So yeah, that's definitely helping, it's always in the back of our mind throughout the year

891
01:02:03,060 --> 01:02:09,220
and making sure that we're staying on track to not only meet our clients goals, but also

892
01:02:09,220 --> 01:02:13,340
as Muddy Shutter Media as a whole to make sure that we're meeting our own goals, making

893
01:02:13,340 --> 01:02:16,780
sure that we're moving forward as a company.

894
01:02:16,780 --> 01:02:24,700
So I guess in terms of my own, I really don't set quarterly goals for my Instagram or my

895
01:02:24,700 --> 01:02:30,060
personal creative stuff, but I always like to feel like I'm moving forward a little bit.

896
01:02:30,060 --> 01:02:34,940
I'll set some informal goals for myself and say, hey, I want to get this many posts out

897
01:02:34,940 --> 01:02:39,700
or I want to take this direction in the next couple of months or next couple of weeks or

898
01:02:39,700 --> 01:02:40,700
something.

899
01:02:40,700 --> 01:02:45,580
So I feel like that was using my Instagram piece as an example.

900
01:02:45,580 --> 01:02:49,860
Where I'm at now with my feet was the goal that I had set for myself in December of last

901
01:02:49,860 --> 01:02:56,180
year and it's like, by March, I want to start posting more of the marketing stuff, more

902
01:02:56,180 --> 01:02:58,660
of the business posts.

903
01:02:58,660 --> 01:03:02,380
And yeah, I can definitely say that over the first quarter of the year, I accomplished

904
01:03:02,380 --> 01:03:03,380
that goal for myself.

905
01:03:03,380 --> 01:03:08,420
That makes sense when you put it in that perspective of meeting goals for clients versus meeting

906
01:03:08,420 --> 01:03:09,420
goals for yourself.

907
01:03:09,420 --> 01:03:13,540
For myself, I have all kinds of goals and I wrote them out December, I was like, I want

908
01:03:13,540 --> 01:03:17,660
to hit these things by this time and then you did it, you didn't do it.

909
01:03:17,660 --> 01:03:20,060
I really like that you call people out on that.

910
01:03:20,060 --> 01:03:23,580
We kind of have to keep, because I was like, yeah, that's something that people should

911
01:03:23,580 --> 01:03:26,740
be thinking about because I'm big into setting goals.

912
01:03:26,740 --> 01:03:27,740
Yeah.

913
01:03:27,740 --> 01:03:33,540
No, no, that's definitely on, I've got a whole list of ideas for upcoming posts and stuff

914
01:03:33,540 --> 01:03:37,460
and goal setting is definitely the common, it's like a reoccurring theme that always

915
01:03:37,460 --> 01:03:38,460
pops up.

916
01:03:38,460 --> 01:03:42,660
You know, people talk about goals, but it's like the whole process of setting a goal and

917
01:03:42,660 --> 01:03:48,100
making sure that it's one, achievable and two, I feel like the part of goal setting

918
01:03:48,100 --> 01:03:54,660
that people always don't do is outlining a strategy to then accomplish that goal.

919
01:03:54,660 --> 01:03:59,340
Like it's one thing to say, like, yeah, I want to have 10 billion followers next week,

920
01:03:59,340 --> 01:04:01,980
but like, how are you actually going to do that?

921
01:04:01,980 --> 01:04:06,940
And I feel like people, they'll say, okay, here's my goal and putting zero effort or

922
01:04:06,940 --> 01:04:09,220
thought into how they're actually going to achieve it.

923
01:04:09,220 --> 01:04:14,780
So that's where a lot of my posts usually outline is like the steps you can take to

924
01:04:14,780 --> 01:04:17,220
take action to actually accomplish your goals.

925
01:04:17,220 --> 01:04:21,320
So yeah, who knows what the, that might be my next post honestly.

926
01:04:21,320 --> 01:04:23,320
So yeah, we're all ready for that one.

927
01:04:23,320 --> 01:04:25,020
So I was watching a couple of your YouTube videos.

928
01:04:25,020 --> 01:04:29,180
Well, I mean, I was following along with, following along when you're posting them and

929
01:04:29,180 --> 01:04:31,900
you haven't posted in a while and I was just kind of curious if you're going to make a

930
01:04:31,900 --> 01:04:39,740
comeback to the YouTube channel space, document your adventures or just do topical discussions

931
01:04:39,740 --> 01:04:43,140
regarding marketing and photography, hunting everything together.

932
01:04:43,140 --> 01:04:47,900
Yeah, that's a, I kind of forgot about YouTube for a while.

933
01:04:47,900 --> 01:04:51,020
That was definitely something that I hit.

934
01:04:51,020 --> 01:04:53,420
That was before I joined MSM.

935
01:04:53,420 --> 01:04:59,700
So that was kind of like my little side project back when I was working at Abercrombie.

936
01:04:59,700 --> 01:05:05,500
And yeah, to be straight up, it's not really on my goal list in the immediate future.

937
01:05:05,500 --> 01:05:09,220
So I feel like YouTube and it's hard for me.

938
01:05:09,220 --> 01:05:12,580
I'm definitely, I'm not a video editor.

939
01:05:12,580 --> 01:05:17,500
I always say, I know how to edit video, but I'm not a great video editor.

940
01:05:17,500 --> 01:05:23,580
So and for the quality of content that I would want to push out on YouTube, I just don't

941
01:05:23,580 --> 01:05:28,460
know if I have the skills currently to meet my own expectations for what I would want

942
01:05:28,460 --> 01:05:29,780
to put out on YouTube.

943
01:05:29,780 --> 01:05:34,500
So I feel like for right now I'm going to focus on building out more of that community.

944
01:05:34,500 --> 01:05:39,620
And I would say, you know, going into Q2, if we're talking in quarters of the year,

945
01:05:39,620 --> 01:05:46,020
like I want to continue to bring in more people and I guess identify more people in our space

946
01:05:46,020 --> 01:05:49,300
that care about the business stuff.

947
01:05:49,300 --> 01:05:55,320
Like I'm hemorrhaging followers right now by what I'm doing on my own feed, losing tens

948
01:05:55,320 --> 01:05:57,500
of followers every single day.

949
01:05:57,500 --> 01:06:03,140
So I feel like my goal is to start building up an audience who actually cares about the

950
01:06:03,140 --> 01:06:05,100
stuff I'm posting.

951
01:06:05,100 --> 01:06:10,300
And then if I, you know, prove that, that concept, then maybe that's something I would

952
01:06:10,300 --> 01:06:16,460
want to bring over to YouTube to start providing more data and insights and Intel and to kind

953
01:06:16,460 --> 01:06:18,780
of my thought process and creative workflow.

954
01:06:18,780 --> 01:06:24,240
But as of this point, like I'm really not, not proving the concept right now as people

955
01:06:24,240 --> 01:06:27,900
are really rapidly unfollowing me.

956
01:06:27,900 --> 01:06:35,540
So you know, I am in a weekly entrepreneurs mastermind group calls.

957
01:06:35,540 --> 01:06:39,780
We meet every Wednesday usually, and we just talk about different struggles, different

958
01:06:39,780 --> 01:06:41,820
things, how to build a brand.

959
01:06:41,820 --> 01:06:47,980
And one person, this marketing guru, they said, when you post about what you're interested

960
01:06:47,980 --> 01:06:54,160
like your business, your brand, your niche, your values, not only are you posting to attract

961
01:06:54,160 --> 01:07:00,740
certain people who are like minded, you're also retracting, reflecting people who may

962
01:07:00,740 --> 01:07:04,720
not align with what you're doing.

963
01:07:04,720 --> 01:07:11,840
So that whole alignment issue or a whole alignment topic is crucial because if you're not authentic

964
01:07:11,840 --> 01:07:17,860
to what you're believing in, what your creative side is posting, you're going to attract the

965
01:07:17,860 --> 01:07:23,960
wrong audience and actually make people who you actually want to attract not interested

966
01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:24,960
in you.

967
01:07:24,960 --> 01:07:26,620
Yeah, exactly.

968
01:07:26,620 --> 01:07:31,740
I would say that that's something I've struggled with since I started my Instagram and like

969
01:07:31,740 --> 01:07:35,420
I started my Instagram well before I started my hunting career.

970
01:07:35,420 --> 01:07:39,620
Well before I started my journey into marketing strategy, it was like when I first started

971
01:07:39,620 --> 01:07:42,760
my Instagram, a lot of people followed me for travel content.

972
01:07:42,760 --> 01:07:45,000
And I feel like I was like, I was like the travel guy.

973
01:07:45,000 --> 01:07:50,320
I was trying to be VNR McKinnon posting the best of the best when it came to any trip

974
01:07:50,320 --> 01:07:52,420
that I had ever gone on.

975
01:07:52,420 --> 01:08:00,040
And then that kind of translated into creating the Moody Edit sit-in that I was known as

976
01:08:00,040 --> 01:08:03,420
the Moody Edit guy, and that's what people followed me for.

977
01:08:03,420 --> 01:08:06,100
And the travel people, they were fine with that.

978
01:08:06,100 --> 01:08:08,920
They're fine with travel stuff with the Moody Edit on it.

979
01:08:08,920 --> 01:08:15,780
But then when I moved into hunting and outdoor recreational stuff, I turned off a lot of

980
01:08:15,780 --> 01:08:20,860
people, lost quite a few followers on that, still kept the people who were interested

981
01:08:20,860 --> 01:08:25,940
in those three topics of travel, Moody Editing, and then hunting and fishing.

982
01:08:25,940 --> 01:08:34,700
And then once I started this, the new business, marketing, whatever, I lost a significant

983
01:08:34,700 --> 01:08:38,540
amount of people because the amount of people who then were interested in all four of those

984
01:08:38,540 --> 01:08:39,540
topics.

985
01:08:39,540 --> 01:08:40,540
They were interested in travel.

986
01:08:40,540 --> 01:08:43,620
They were interested in the Moody Editing style.

987
01:08:43,620 --> 01:08:46,740
They were interested in hunting and fishing, and they were also interested in marketing

988
01:08:46,740 --> 01:08:47,740
and business stuff.

989
01:08:47,740 --> 01:08:51,300
That's a pretty small collection of people.

990
01:08:51,300 --> 01:08:55,960
And that's kind of what I posted a lot of stuff on my stories to be like, when you come

991
01:08:55,960 --> 01:08:58,260
to my feed, what do you expect to see?

992
01:08:58,260 --> 01:09:01,100
And obviously, the number one answer was like, oh, they both, because I feel like the people

993
01:09:01,100 --> 01:09:05,860
who are interacting with my stories the most are people who are that rare collection of

994
01:09:05,860 --> 01:09:08,700
people who are interested in all the things that I'm interested in.

995
01:09:08,700 --> 01:09:15,100
But yeah, I've got people that used to follow me for travel stuff, and I still post some

996
01:09:15,100 --> 01:09:18,940
travel stuff, but it's definitely not what I'm posting primarily.

997
01:09:18,940 --> 01:09:23,300
I've got people that follow me for Moody Editing style, which that's something that I'll continue

998
01:09:23,300 --> 01:09:24,780
to do.

999
01:09:24,780 --> 01:09:28,580
I've got people that specifically follow me for hunting and fishing stuff, and they're

1000
01:09:28,580 --> 01:09:32,060
not really interested in travel, and they're not really interested in the Moody Editing

1001
01:09:32,060 --> 01:09:34,660
style, and they're definitely not interested in the business stuff.

1002
01:09:34,660 --> 01:09:40,460
So I'm really trying to build up that fourth one, the new one of this marketing strategy,

1003
01:09:40,460 --> 01:09:48,060
insights, data, creative workflow, kind of the business side behind the creative industry.

1004
01:09:48,060 --> 01:09:55,020
I feel like that's my smallest customer segment right now, smallest target audience.

1005
01:09:55,020 --> 01:09:58,020
And so I'm really trying to build that one up, because I feel like those people will

1006
01:09:58,020 --> 01:10:02,900
then understand kind of where I'm at in my journey on Instagram.

1007
01:10:02,900 --> 01:10:08,900
And it's been tough, not going to lie, to kind of deal with, I know that I'm turning

1008
01:10:08,900 --> 01:10:14,060
off a lot of people that follow me, and honestly, I've lost followers of people who have been

1009
01:10:14,060 --> 01:10:16,180
following me for many years.

1010
01:10:16,180 --> 01:10:21,340
And that's just got to be something I'm okay with, because I feel like my Instagram account

1011
01:10:21,340 --> 01:10:28,500
currently is probably the most authentic version of me that I've ever put out on Instagram.

1012
01:10:28,500 --> 01:10:31,460
So that's what I'm talking about, man.

1013
01:10:31,460 --> 01:10:37,700
To briefly touch on Instagram and growing, things like that.

1014
01:10:37,700 --> 01:10:42,700
So I started out as a photographer, that's what I posted about, then I transitioned into

1015
01:10:42,700 --> 01:10:49,260
like travel content, then I transitioned into adventure photography, then I transitioned

1016
01:10:49,260 --> 01:10:52,060
into outdoors tips.

1017
01:10:52,060 --> 01:10:56,120
I kept trying to transition into things that I thought would do good versus doing what

1018
01:10:56,120 --> 01:10:57,660
I wanted to do.

1019
01:10:57,660 --> 01:11:04,180
I ended up ignoring the fact that I love storytelling, so it took me until like last year's June

1020
01:11:04,180 --> 01:11:09,260
to realize, whoa, I come out here because I like taking photos and videos.

1021
01:11:09,260 --> 01:11:15,620
So now that I'm out here posting what I want to do, I built up the wrong audience from

1022
01:11:15,620 --> 01:11:17,200
the start.

1023
01:11:17,200 --> 01:11:24,020
So I totally relate to what you're saying, but like I mentioned before, we're taking

1024
01:11:24,020 --> 01:11:28,300
away the people who are not aligned with us, and we're also bringing in people who are

1025
01:11:28,300 --> 01:11:34,620
aligned with us, which keep do what you're doing, man.

1026
01:11:34,620 --> 01:11:42,980
Another question I had for you before we close out was you're in marketing, you're a photographer,

1027
01:11:42,980 --> 01:11:49,780
but I want to know what your ideal dream job is, or maybe even running a business.

1028
01:11:49,780 --> 01:11:57,780
Yeah, I would say right now I'm in my ideal dream job, and my ideal dream job is to come

1029
01:11:57,780 --> 01:12:00,540
in and be able to do something new pretty much every day.

1030
01:12:00,540 --> 01:12:07,020
And I mean, the people that I work with at Muddy Shutter Media, everyone within our immediate

1031
01:12:07,020 --> 01:12:14,700
network of clients and companies, my own network, personal aside from MSM on Instagram, it's

1032
01:12:14,700 --> 01:12:20,260
a really awesome collection of people, and I'm super grateful to interact with all the

1033
01:12:20,260 --> 01:12:21,940
people that I interact with every day.

1034
01:12:21,940 --> 01:12:27,900
And we have some really cool conversations that have helped me grow personally, grow

1035
01:12:27,900 --> 01:12:32,860
professionally a large amount over the last year.

1036
01:12:32,860 --> 01:12:40,140
So I would say I'm in that realm, I'm still growing a lot, but yeah, what I'm doing now

1037
01:12:40,140 --> 01:12:45,100
and just learning as much as possible and interacting with a lot of people every day,

1038
01:12:45,100 --> 01:12:47,620
that's kind of the dream job for me.

1039
01:12:47,620 --> 01:12:48,760
Well said.

1040
01:12:48,760 --> 01:12:59,340
So today's age, we are in the age and generation of posting work, copying each other, and chasing

1041
01:12:59,340 --> 01:13:00,340
views.

1042
01:13:00,340 --> 01:13:04,000
But I mean, to be frank, people have always been copying each other's work for as long

1043
01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:06,060
as humans have been alive.

1044
01:13:06,060 --> 01:13:10,620
Now it's just put on display because we have social media to see it.

1045
01:13:10,620 --> 01:13:15,180
How do you navigate to creating original work and what are some tips you can share with

1046
01:13:15,180 --> 01:13:16,820
the listeners?

1047
01:13:16,820 --> 01:13:18,620
How to go about that?

1048
01:13:18,620 --> 01:13:19,620
Yeah.

1049
01:13:19,620 --> 01:13:20,900
I mean, I'll be straight up.

1050
01:13:20,900 --> 01:13:25,780
There's absolutely nothing wrong with taking inspiration from other people.

1051
01:13:25,780 --> 01:13:27,540
Like I take inspiration from all the people.

1052
01:13:27,540 --> 01:13:32,420
I've talked about Peter Ricken multiple times in this podcast episode already.

1053
01:13:32,420 --> 01:13:38,540
Huge inspiration to me, but I feel like you have to...

1054
01:13:38,540 --> 01:13:42,180
The easiest way to tell whether or not you copied someone and ripped something off was

1055
01:13:42,180 --> 01:13:47,260
whether you can explain exactly what you did to create that piece of work.

1056
01:13:47,260 --> 01:13:51,300
And for me, I can speak to anything that I've ever put on my feed.

1057
01:13:51,300 --> 01:13:55,660
I can tell you exactly why I edited it, what I was doing when I shot it, why I took that

1058
01:13:55,660 --> 01:13:59,220
specific picture, what I remember about it.

1059
01:13:59,220 --> 01:14:04,100
And it's like, that's the key indicator right there, whether or not it's an original work

1060
01:14:04,100 --> 01:14:05,100
of yours or not.

1061
01:14:05,100 --> 01:14:08,140
If you can speak to it and stand behind what you put out there.

1062
01:14:08,140 --> 01:14:10,260
And I know a lot of people probably can't do that.

1063
01:14:10,260 --> 01:14:13,380
And if you ask them, hey, I really like this photo.

1064
01:14:13,380 --> 01:14:14,380
How'd you edit it?

1065
01:14:14,380 --> 01:14:19,140
Oh, I took it and then from the preset pack that I bought from this one dude, I just slapped

1066
01:14:19,140 --> 01:14:22,140
it on there and then published it.

1067
01:14:22,140 --> 01:14:23,700
Like okay, great.

1068
01:14:23,700 --> 01:14:24,700
Cool story.

1069
01:14:24,700 --> 01:14:31,060
Whereas even if you did buy a preset from someone, talk about the story of why did you

1070
01:14:31,060 --> 01:14:35,900
select that specific preset or what changes did you make to it when you were going through

1071
01:14:35,900 --> 01:14:36,900
it?

1072
01:14:36,900 --> 01:14:39,540
How does it reflect you cohesively on your feed?

1073
01:14:39,540 --> 01:14:43,680
Does it fit well with what you already post or were you trying to take a new direction

1074
01:14:43,680 --> 01:14:48,620
with what you were publishing out on your Instagram?

1075
01:14:48,620 --> 01:14:52,620
Basically what was your thought process behind putting something out there?

1076
01:14:52,620 --> 01:14:54,460
I don't know.

1077
01:14:54,460 --> 01:14:58,340
That's kind of the thought process that I take with my own feed and the stuff that I

1078
01:14:58,340 --> 01:15:03,660
put out is if someone asked me and I'm happy that Nick, you had me on your podcast, it

1079
01:15:03,660 --> 01:15:09,620
kind of allowed me to give a little bit of insight on my process and what I put out on

1080
01:15:09,620 --> 01:15:15,840
Instagram, because I feel like, yeah, I do put out original content and yeah, anyone

1081
01:15:15,840 --> 01:15:21,060
who wants to kind of discuss or if you're struggling with figuring out how do you want

1082
01:15:21,060 --> 01:15:25,020
to make original content and you can't really figure out, are you questioning whether your

1083
01:15:25,020 --> 01:15:29,660
stuff is original or whether you feel like you're copying someone else?

1084
01:15:29,660 --> 01:15:35,260
I kind of love these conversations and helping someone uncover their true brand identity

1085
01:15:35,260 --> 01:15:41,300
or who you are as a person or also getting people out of that imposter syndrome because

1086
01:15:41,300 --> 01:15:45,660
I had that for a long time and it's like, yeah, I know that deep down I was creating

1087
01:15:45,660 --> 01:15:49,220
original content, but it made me didn't feel like I was creating original content just

1088
01:15:49,220 --> 01:15:55,540
because I was taking so much stuff from other people and inspiration, but helping people

1089
01:15:55,540 --> 01:15:59,780
get out of that, you're not always an imposter just because you are questioning whether your

1090
01:15:59,780 --> 01:16:01,620
stuff is original or not.

1091
01:16:01,620 --> 01:16:04,500
So it's definitely a cool conversation to have with people.

1092
01:16:04,500 --> 01:16:06,740
Man, just drop the mic, man.

1093
01:16:06,740 --> 01:16:07,740
That's awesome.

1094
01:16:07,740 --> 01:16:14,900
Before I let you go, where can the people listening learn more about you and where can

1095
01:16:14,900 --> 01:16:16,300
they follow you?

1096
01:16:16,300 --> 01:16:17,380
Yeah.

1097
01:16:17,380 --> 01:16:20,540
My Instagram is Jack West, Jackswitherv.

1098
01:16:20,540 --> 01:16:28,620
Definitely go ahead and follow Muddy Shutter as well on Instagram.

1099
01:16:28,620 --> 01:16:35,340
We're getting ready to publish our origin story and director's reel, so definitely it's

1100
01:16:35,340 --> 01:16:39,500
kind of a compilation of the coolest stuff that we've shot over the last five years.

1101
01:16:39,500 --> 01:16:42,940
So we're actually launching it today.

1102
01:16:42,940 --> 01:16:46,620
So it'll be up on our website.

1103
01:16:46,620 --> 01:16:47,620
That's kind of it.

1104
01:16:47,620 --> 01:16:52,700
I'm also super active on LinkedIn in case anyone's jumped over to LinkedIn looking for

1105
01:16:52,700 --> 01:16:58,140
some more of that business long form marketing strategy advice.

1106
01:16:58,140 --> 01:17:00,460
I'm Jack Westrady over on LinkedIn.

1107
01:17:00,460 --> 01:17:01,460
All right.

1108
01:17:01,460 --> 01:17:05,260
If you didn't catch that on Instagram, he's Jack West.

1109
01:17:05,260 --> 01:17:08,060
A is with a V. Go follow Muddy Shutter Media.

1110
01:17:08,060 --> 01:17:09,060
That's where he works.

1111
01:17:09,060 --> 01:17:11,020
He's doing all the magic, helping other businesses.

1112
01:17:11,020 --> 01:17:16,820
If you want to learn more about marketing, discussions, posts with Jack, you can go to

1113
01:17:16,820 --> 01:17:17,820
LinkedIn.

1114
01:17:17,820 --> 01:17:21,620
I actually just sent Jack a LinkedIn Connect, so I'll be getting that soon.

1115
01:17:21,620 --> 01:17:26,340
Highly recommend using LinkedIn if you are creative and you're trying to reach out to

1116
01:17:26,340 --> 01:17:28,580
people and get a hold of them.

1117
01:17:28,580 --> 01:17:31,300
LinkedIn is a very underrated tool.

1118
01:17:31,300 --> 01:17:37,940
And Jack, before we let you go, is there anything else you would like to add to the listeners

1119
01:17:37,940 --> 01:17:38,940
today?

1120
01:17:38,940 --> 01:17:46,460
Yeah, I would just say don't always let what other people are doing and let the algorithm

1121
01:17:46,460 --> 01:17:50,700
kind of dictate your creative process.

1122
01:17:50,700 --> 01:17:53,740
Just take a deep dive and look back at VOR as a person.

1123
01:17:53,740 --> 01:17:59,260
And honestly, if you want to follow my lead and use Instagram as kind of a visual gallery

1124
01:17:59,260 --> 01:18:04,460
of who you are, that would be my best bet to overcome any negative side effects of the

1125
01:18:04,460 --> 01:18:07,340
algorithm or any of that stuff.

1126
01:18:07,340 --> 01:18:11,900
And just keep following Nick because he's bringing great people onto his podcast.

1127
01:18:11,900 --> 01:18:14,100
That's what I'm talking about.

1128
01:18:14,100 --> 01:18:19,860
Don't let the algorithm dictate your value or what you believe in, what you're posting.

1129
01:18:19,860 --> 01:18:28,100
And if you don't follow me, Nick, I'm at the Nickamp on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Facebook,

1130
01:18:28,100 --> 01:18:32,420
Twitter, and I post about mountains, hiking.

1131
01:18:32,420 --> 01:18:35,340
Now I'm telling stories, but video.

1132
01:18:35,340 --> 01:18:37,900
I'm probably getting into more nature documentaries.

1133
01:18:37,900 --> 01:18:38,900
You're hearing it first here.

1134
01:18:38,900 --> 01:18:40,820
I haven't told anybody that yet.

1135
01:18:40,820 --> 01:18:41,820
So that should be cool.

1136
01:18:41,820 --> 01:18:47,820
If I learn more about the podcast, it's Nickamp podcast on Instagram and TikTok.

1137
01:18:47,820 --> 01:18:48,820
We're streaming on all platforms.

1138
01:18:48,820 --> 01:18:51,140
We're on YouTube if you want to watch us.

1139
01:18:51,140 --> 01:18:52,140
Hello.

1140
01:18:52,140 --> 01:18:53,140
Glad you're here.

1141
01:18:53,140 --> 01:18:55,440
Can't wait to share more people with you and their perspectives.

1142
01:18:55,440 --> 01:18:59,900
We hope that this episode was beneficial to you and that you learned something from it.

1143
01:18:59,900 --> 01:19:03,260
And I will catch you on another episode next week.

1144
01:19:03,260 --> 01:19:05,300
Thanks again for listening.

1145
01:19:05,300 --> 01:19:06,300
See you, Jack.

1146
01:19:06,300 --> 01:19:34,300
See you.