hello ladies and gentlemen the war crimes today
we are fixing the end times coming at you from
all points of the world here on our podcast for
warhammer 40k fantasy how's everybody doing today
I think, did Colin say last week, the sun never
sets on... The sun never sets on the Lord Grimes
Empire, baby. Yeah, guys. We're doing mostly
okay. Fellow American bros, it is so over this
week, though, as April 15th is always, you know,
tax day. Hang me from the trees. We've already
been through that on the 4th, so it's not too
far away. Ah, well. Lovely. Once again, guys,
welcome to the Lord Cries podcast. We're on Spotify.
We're on all the other sites. If you want to
watch it unedited, as usual, you ravenous chat,
as always. You want to see the live event with
our beautiful faces, you've got to tune in live
on the Friday evenings. For a little while, I
think we'll be doing it at 10. EST or BST British
Summer Time or relevant it'll be an hour later
than usual for people going forward central time
is the only correct time zone anyways so that's
why it's number zero GMT -0, baby. It's the standard
to which all time zones are spurred from. No,
it stands for... It's the center of the universe
and the center of the world. The stupid misstandard
time. July's got up at 6 in the morning for this,
by the way. So, actually, shout out to the lad
here. Because today's topic is a fun one. We
definitely did not scramble together. last minute
because we couldn't think of a really good one,
but we're going to fix the end times, guys. Not
every single detail. We're going to attempt to
discuss our way through some of the really cool
and interesting big lore moments. Not every detail,
but we're going to scramble together our piss
-poor knowledge and we'll hopefully make it a
bit more interesting. Before we do, Colin. Can
you outline what the primary problem is for End
Times for people who aren't aware? What's wrong
with it? For those unaware, the gist of it is
that GW blew up Warhammer Fantasy, so it's already
going to be a tough sell because Warhammer is
a hobby. It tends to be one people invest a lot
of time and money and energy into. Armies aren't
cheap. quick to put together so the immediate
sell of hey we're blowing that all up rough start
and then the follow -up of uh also we're going
to introduce a bunch of plot lines we're going
to ignore previous lore and those plot lines
are going to be nothing because the death star
is hitting the planet at the end of it all made
the event a little bit rough a little bit disliked
one could say people weren't the biggest fan
Or still aren't the biggest fans because even,
you know, look, even people who are really only
into AOS and much prefer AOS, they're like, yeah,
the end times were kind of ass. Like there's
just, they're just not well -written. Mostly.
They have moments. They have moments. Was it
your first foray into Warhammer lore as well?
It was because, look, I'll give the End Times
a little bit of credit. When you don't know what
you're reading and you're just, you know, you're
in your church parking lot waiting for your shift
to start and you read the wiki page on End Times.
Damn, that stuff all sounds really cool. We got
this big old magical wall and Elven civil wars
and the return of the god or necromancer of great
death, Super Nagash. Awesome. It's like, damn,
this stuff goes hard. And then you read about
it and you're like, well, the setting did go
hard. Are you suggesting that people should...
Start with the end times and work backwards because
it gets better as you go back. Yeah, no, yeah.
Start with the end times because that's the only,
if you don't know nothing about Warhammer fantasy,
that's the only way to make the end times palatable
is if you don't know a single damn thing about
this. We only up from here because everything
else is down. Speaking of that, we want to start.
No, no, I don't. I don't need to say what I was
about to say. Thanks for pointing out that I
have a bit of a zit on my forehead, Chet. Don't
be mean to Colin. You guys try to be on camera
all the time. Don't worry. We're going to start,
though, with this event because some of you guys
are fantasy veterans. You know your law. I'm
going to start with one the bigger. I mean, maybe
the biggest thing in the entire End Times event,
which is the return of he who shall be named
a thousand times. You will never forget it. It
is Nagash. Colin, do you want to speak of Nagash?
I realized recently that, you know, like the
trailers for like the new one with Nagash in
Total War and Horus in his Let the Galaxy Burn.
Same voice actor. Oh, yeah. I thought they sounded
similar. I don't know. They were the same. Same
guy? Good for him. Damn, who is he? Is his name
Craig or something? I could find out. It's just
so weird. It could be. He was also like Hadriel
in Angels of Death and then he was like, I like
all the support I've been getting from Hadriel
and he had one of my thumbnails on his Instagram
and was like, oh, oh, oh, that fella. Oh, okay.
What were you saying though, Andy? Oh, sorry,
I was just saying that, yeah, like the same blokes.
Horus and Nagash are the same. I thought you
were starting. It was me. Oh, how? I said, do
you want to explain in brief notes how the return
of Nagash sort of comes to fruition? Like, what
are we going to change? Like, what's the basis?
So in the end times, and I'll start with, I guess,
saying this is just, you know, this is like kind
of the opening act and, you know, the first big
hitter. The Nagash stuff is about the only stuff
that's consistently well -ish written. So it
probably needs the least amount of changes. With
that said, Manfred von Karstein, everyone's favorite
bald asshole vampire, kidnapped the Everchild
of the High Elves named Aliothra, which for reference,
the Queen of the High Elves, her soul is like
this weird hive composite soul of their god,
Isha, and every other one. So she would be the
next in line to get the Super Saiyan elf soul
when Alariel dies. Is she the... She's a pure
soul. Wasn't that the ingredient? Yeah, she's
a nice, innocent little chibi elf child. Chibi
child. Big cheeks. Yeah. On her face. So Manfred,
of course, goes, well, don't mind if I do Amber
Alert that child. And steals her from a... while
she was on a diplomatic mission to the dwarfs
because she was just you know such a little ray
of sunshine even the dwarfs are like yes this
knife here is all right so wow uh so what it
ended up happening was tyrian goes on a rampage
to try and rescue his daughter because lariel
was a little bit of cheating going on there with
the phoenix king uh and tyrian ended up having
uh being the father And because of, you know,
like you said, pure soul and either way, they
would love to get their hands on all of Isha's
power. They use her and a couple others to sacrifice
to Nagash and bring him back, which works. Nagash
does come back. He doesn't get the Everqueen
soul because Alariel is still alive. So until
that happens, Aliothra is just kind of like an
elf. Until the previous Everqueen dies, it doesn't
actually mean anything, obviously, other than
ceremonially. There's no physical benefit. He
does get the Curse of Cain because that's Tyrion's
child also, so Nagash has a little bit of Cain
in him for a bit, but he's already kind of an
asshole, so it can't really make Nagash any worse.
And either way, though, he's back. Death is ascendant.
Nagash is ready to... make some waves and become
the only Chaos God because he's aiming for nothing
but the highest of heights. Speaking of Cain,
though, he was asking who it was. It was Richard
Reid who did the voices. He also does the audiobook
for Cain's Last Stand, Infinitely Divine. He's
been in Darktide Space 32 and like 500 characters
across Warhammer. It's like prolific. Cain in
the gash. Cain's in the gash. I found it. I did
the research. Damn it, Richard. Richard's going
to be my brain. It's in the Trazin book. He says,
like, you know. Dick in the brain. Dick in the
brain. He has, like, a way, like, he has, like,
you know, like, you have to do accents in voice
acting. Shout out to the White Scars once again,
by the way. But he does a very good, like, I
don't know, was it, like, Necron one, Richard?
So, appreciate it, man. He's, like, Petty King
and Titans and other stuff. He's pretty good.
I was going to say. kill him i'm back on good
terms with him he's uh he he me and him are cooking
something up awesome send me the files i'll say
no more but me and are cooking something but
say no more uh i'll say starting off though because
there's a there's a few interesting interesting
details that i would say with this part in like
nagash's return it's still i agree like quite
well done and i wouldn't change too many elements
except I believe there's a certain elf lord who
does get absolutely pasted I wonder if you have
thoughts on that Colin or would you yeah so so
for context on that Hal is referring to Elthari
in the Grimm who does a good showing of preventing
Nagash's return and Possum was speaking He's
providing me with glorious things. The place
has the goods. It's okay. Don't worry. You will
certainly be seeing it when it arrives next live
stream after that. But anyway. Topic. Topic.
Eltharion the Grim was part of the people trying
to save Aliatra, and he gave a good showing of
it. He did... He lost some of his artifacts,
but he got close enough to arc in the black Nagash's
right -hand man. to just start slamming his skull
into a cauldron. Like that was the focal point
of the ritual. So he just beating the snot out
of them. The, the unfortunate problem, however,
was that Arkin is a lich. And if I remember correctly
from old fantasy stats, how magic worked, he
was like a level four lich, like wizard. So quite
powerful, like the highest you can get in the
game without being Nagash. And so Arkin snapped
his fingers and Altharion aged to dust in nanoseconds.
It's not an end I'm happy with, but if he's going
to be there, he's going to be charging in like
that. And the Arkin was powerful enough that
like he broke Altharion's like protective wards
and like his, I think he had an amulet that allowed
him to resist magic to some extent, but Arkin
just like, strong -armed through it. So... I
have an interesting part to add in here. Because
slightly earlier to the resurrection of Nagash,
I believe the first Warhammer character, Heinrich
Kemmler, is obliterated, is he not? He is. Arkan
also kills him. Arkan got quite the kill count
in the end times. I thought it would be quite
an interesting thing if... Heinrich maybe played
along a bit more and then was actually at the
ritual itself. So it was a bit more of an event
where it's like, it's not just all the good guys.
There's an annoying thing in Warhammer where
it's like, oh, we got so close, but then the
thing like did succeed. And it's a bit more of
a, I think it's a bit more of a twist if more
characters die in like interesting events rather
than like. in a side plot, essentially. Arkid
just ass -blasting him. Just, you know, ligma
balls exploded. It'd be quite cool if Heinrich
Kemmler and Altharion maybe, as in he killed
Kemmler first and then died to Mr. Black Teeth
Skeleton himself later. That could be cool. My
only thing, though, is I do think... I like Eltharain.
He's one of my favorite high elf characters.
But also, hell yeah, I need to turn the light
on in my room. Holy shit. The only thing is that
there does need to be some stakes. Like, you
know, characters are going to need to be dying.
And as much as I like him, he is one of the best
characters to kill, narratively speaking. Because
his whole thing is, you know, he's the warden
of Tori Fress. He's, you know... He had his character
arc in his story, and now he's the grim defender
of Ulthuan. Out of every high elf character to
just have killed off, especially early on, he's
probably the best one because he's going to have
the same general attitude no matter what he's
in, which is grimly defend his homeland. So if
there's a character to kill off, he's the best
one to do it, which is not me saying he is like
a bad character. I love the guy, but he's had
his arc. He's had it. And I feel like his death
would probably be the best one to raise the stakes,
but leave narrative room open. So he should stay
as a casualty. The resurrection of Nagash is
somewhat, I wouldn't say no -nos, but it's a
part where like, there's not much we would like
to change, I think, right? kind of like well
done and it's a pretty big deal you know arch
necromancer himself is returned and it's terrifying
but he's also not like insta one it's all over
guys you know go pack up your your jean shorts
and you know it's time to die or something I
would say that maybe if Kemmler is around a bit
more, Altharion could do a bit more towards weakening
that ritual. Because something I would change
coming up is that after he's resurrected, his
first order of business is to obliterate Nehekhara.
Just like no holds barred, it's gone, basically.
And anyone left is serving him now. There's the
classic, Cetra does not serve, which banger.
Banger. We can keep that. Should keep that. but
it does eliminate the Tomb Kings essentially
as their own thing because they all just get
subsumed into Nagash's horde or annihilated.
So if he's a little bit weaker in that starting
ritual, we can make it so Tomb Kings going forward
in the end times could actually be doing things
as opposed to just Nagash's will. Which even
then, what we got, it makes sense he did what
he did. He's Nagash. The dead are all under him
as far as his ego is concerned. So him going
to do it, I don't have a problem with, even in
canon. It's just a matter of if he's a little
bit weaker, maybe Eltharion and Kemmler can mess
with their ritual a bit. He doesn't come back
as much as he'd like, or not as powerful again.
It would be cool to see more Tomb King resistance,
or some of them go shack up with the other factions.
You're speaking of something quite cool, because
whilst we're on the topic of it, we might as
well... Well, pretty soon after the return of
the Gash is his invasion. He subsumes his Mortarchs.
I can't remember all of them, but I'm sure Neferata,
Manfred, Arkhan, Krell is one of them. The weird
guy who has the castle in the Empire that everyone
hates. Oh, Drachenfels. Yeah, it'd be cool to
see him a bit more as well. So the Mortarchs
all assemble and they basically head down to
Khemri. Do you want to explain very briefly about
how that stuff with Khemri goes? That's the Nagash
section for the time being. He gathers his armies,
sneaks his way into Khemri by somehow hiding
within a traitor lich's body. Nagash does. Don't
question it, because I don't understand it. I
don't know how he fit, but he did. So then when
that Lich gets killed, Nagash bursts out and
just starts wreaking havoc on Khemri. Kills Cetra.
He comes back, and also he's undead anyway, so
kill is not quite the word, but good enough.
And subsumes the Tomb Kings into him after his
victory, or obliterates those who don't bend
the knee. I think there's potential interest
here for... or they can set up later, which is
the fact like I just I find it weird that the
vampires in any way like trust him or like like
kind of adhere to his will. They don't. It's
just that he doesn't give them a choice. It's
like there was there was one vampire who based
on his stats was actually like fairly equal to
Nagash's old stats. And in the end times lore,
Nagash tells him, hey, you're an undead. You
belong to me. Serve me. The vampire says no.
So if I remember correctly from across a continent,
he just lights the guy on fire. It's not a matter
of like they want to be there. It's he just set
the most powerful vampire wizard alive on fire
from across the planet. I don't think we have
a choice. That makes more sense. And because
they're undead and he created necromancy, he
does have some inherent connection to them all.
So there's not really anywhere to go. All the
characters were made of Unreal Engine, but you
were the guy who did the coding for the original
Unreal Engine. You could just be like, execute,
delete. I don't have to trust the engine. I'm
made of it now. Oh, no. Manfred immediately,
he was involved because he wanted to usurp Nagash
right at the ritual. He was immediately being
himself. To some extent, most of them were going
to betray them. It's just then Nagash showed
up, and they were like, oh, I'm not built for
this. I'm so not built for this. Never mind.
I will bend the knee. I do like Shalaxy saying,
Nagash is the master negotiator. It's like, what
are your negotiations? There will be no negotiations.
Oh, okay. The Tomb Kings, though, they do put
up a really good fight in the End Times against
Nagash's forces. It's basically a stalemate because
they keep resurrecting the undead, if I'm correct,
aren't they? They do for a while, but Nagash
is able to bring in more than just, like, the
vampire counts are under him, the vampire coast.
Fun fact, like, half of all vampire coast lore
is Luthor Harkon in the End Times. He brings
in everyone but the Tomb Kings to bring the Tomb
Kings under his rule. I think there's a point
of contention. There's not a point of contention,
but when he's dueling Cetra, Cetra's got the
crown. Is it the crown of Khemri? Or is it an
amulet of Khemri? He's got a million different
things. It's one of his magical devices that
basically negates Nagash's power, so he can't
finish him off. And his own willpower, which
by this point, Nagash has eaten the god of the
dead, and Cetra is still... just squaring up.
A dude. I think it'd be quite cool if it's a
thing of keeping the tomb king's identity. Maybe
some of the tomb kings, like, because obviously
the tomb kings themselves, like they, the other,
you know, obviously Cetra's king, you know, Cetra
rules, you know, Cetra, you know, rules does
not serve, but he could be betrayed instead.
And that's like, like some, you know, because
the gash isn't, he breaks his way into the underworld
of the tomb kings. Whereas I think it could be
an interesting thing where he gets betrayed by
other elements within the Tomb Kings, and therefore
those loyal subjects, instead of just being subsumed
into the army, they stand by Nagash, not rather
completely dominated by Nagash. And that could
be a way of they keep some coherency, I think.
Not just, oh, meat for the army, but actually,
here's... horde army and here's like the elite
regiment or whatever you know this is the one
that has all the fancy gear and shit and more
of the more Krell but overall Nagash is the one
that's got like Nagash and the next one are kind
of the least like problematic things because
they're early on and like I said the Nagash book
was depending how charitable you are the best
written or the least poorly written So it's all
right. The next one, though. Before we get any
further, should we do a few of the... Has there
been any donations? Might as well. Eli's disappeared.
He's just come to drop off the kids. Borgamus
Rumblesnort. Always like reading that one. Pleasure,
brother. That's a good one. Do you want to go
for it? Sure. Been a while. I'm not dead. Just
kind of tired. Sleep won't fix. I've fucking
been there, brother. Hope you feel better. Can't
catch the stream as I have to be up at shit o
'clock in the morning. The nails are biting.
Have a good one, all. Much appreciated the 10
pounds, Chief. You as well. Jesus, thank you,
brother. DonkeyManUSA, thanks, man. T -Bug, stream
late due to how goon into that nagussi. Every
time I see Sarah Palmer with donkey as her head,
it's a good day. Yeah, donkey and shrek is a
dog. That's the body. Wow. And I've just been
replaying Halo 4. I'm like, oh, it's dog. Oh,
I hate this game so much. You're overhating it.
It's not a bad game. It's not a bad game, but
it's a bad Halo game in my opinion. Well, fair
enough. But unfortunately, the game that followed
was a bad game and a bad Halo game. It was like,
oh, this can't get any worse. And then 343 was
like, little did you know. We're going to have
to rebrand our entire name. Oh, okay. That's
one way to do it. all i wear all will wear a
green hat in five weeks for five what again end
times would begin with the inari successfully
resurrecting the god of the dead but instead
of your need they summon the gash such as his
power look wait till gw stock dips long enough
dips low enough in the future and i'm sure that
they'll pull some shit like that I'm just waiting
for Abaddon to try and destroy the Imperium.
Fails, gets repelled, gets killed. And then there's
that scene from Avengers with the Infinity Gauntlet,
and then Nagash goes, Fine. I'll do it myself.
I mean, look, I'm just saying, the Emperor's
an undead, and Nagash has power over the undead.
I'm just saying. Not Shalaxy's wettest gripper.
Remember, for 16 months, King Dwarf still dies
in that tunnel. He just trips. You put respect
on Thorgrim Grudgebearer's name. You give Peppa
Pig's dad the respect he deserves. Lord Delusion.
It's $6 .99. It's just for Colin. Thank you,
Colin. You already spelled my name with too many
L's, but I appreciate it nonetheless. For sending
me on an Ideneth Deepkin Army with your do or
don't video, the answer to the question of whether
I like Big Turtle is yes, as it should be. Big
Turtle. I don't know its normal name. I don't
care to know it. Big Turtle. Big Turtle. Orc
with bow? Master chaff? Is Pelinal Whitestrike?
I'm not wrong. Well, thank you for the two books,
but I'm afraid that that is in fact wrong. One
of those is a child super soldier. The other
is a time -traveling cyborg who retconned countries
after his boyfriend got killed. Yeah, I think
that is a different side. So true to that, though,
Hal. Correct. All Altmer. Some Isles should be
obliterated. No, Altmer. Don't need to specify
which. All of them. I mean, particularly them.
Throw the rest of the Dunmer into Red Mountain.
Turn the... Obliterate all stealth archer wood
elves. Listen, if you don't throw a liver punch
into every Thalmor agent you see immediately
roaming across Skyrim, are you even a human?
that outpost that's linked to the main story
and you try to get in and there's like it's basically
impossible because all the developers realize
like yeah it's like they they knew if you played
one playthrough you'd be gunning for the falmor
straight away no no no no no no we gotta put
invisible walls that are you're not letting me
have any fun do you know it's a cool thing if
you put thalmor robes on as a high elf you can
yeah you can walk through it yeah i don't know
why would you play the high elf because i'm not
a dirty high elf yeah no i'm not disgusting i've
never known that i know from a real supremacist
and then after they're all dead with the bretons
are next because elfish blood is in their veins
and that can't be allowed no no no no good magic
resistance no kill more literate every last trace
of you think that you think the dweller disappeared
because of uh for some magic Every 12 -year -old
child must be crucified. Filthy elven creatures.
Lord Delusion for $6 .99 Canadian. Thanks, man.
A friend really tried to convince me the End
Times was well -written and seemed to generally
like the plot lines. Friend, wow. Especially
the elves. Any comment? I think I've said it.
I think your friend needs to blow up. He must
like dark elves, I guess. Colin's answer was
re -education camp. Wow. Wow. Stark response.
Oh, there's an on. Plane landed. First notification,
law crimes. I hope you had a good trip. Nice,
man. Danceful prodigy. What's the donation goal
to have one of you tattoo your name number one
on your forehead? Doesn't matter who. I don't
know of any amount of money could get me to do
that. I mean, I've got some already. What you
don't know is that I actually have that same
phrase, but it's not on my forehead. I'll leave
it at that. It's the taint. We had to spoil it,
Hal. I know you've seen it, but that doesn't
give you a right to ruin the joke. Run the zipper.
Ryan Von Eger for AJ? For two bucks. Thanks,
man. Fae Enchantress being made a human randomly.
Unsmiley face. That's not even the biggest retcon
with the Lady of the Lake, so. Still sucks, though.
And he says another one by Tomonomonom. 27 for
two bucks. It says Big Turtle mentioned Turtle
Turtle Turtle. And the last one for now from
Lord Peaf. Elder Scrolls episode when? That's
a good question. Who might save it? Me and the
boys need to really... I have a lot of useless
Skyrim knowledge. Can Iden F. Deepkin make an
alternative to the Lusty Argonian Maid discuss?
You know, Elder Scrolls episode when Elder Scrolls
6 has actually got a teaser trailer that's not
two seconds long. Mountains. Question. Is GTA
6 or Elder Scrolls 6 going to be first? Bro,
I'm going to be a fucking... GTA 6. I'm going
to be a dad by the time this all comes out. I'm
going to be fucking in the ground by the time
Elder Scrolls 6 comes out. The thing is, Bethesda
are sneaky. They're always like, oh, by the way,
I'm Todd Howes. Hi there. 16 times the detail.
Eli's about to be giving his camera devious back
shots. Last time, that was crazy. Yeah, that
arms up and everything. Eli, this one's for you.
It's been a long time since we got an egg, Eli.
It's true. Eli, how are the egg prices in Japan?
They're fine. I kind of looked. They're okay.
It has been too long since we've egged. Can you
hear me all right? I moved away from my mic.
Check out my office. Never mind, this is stuck.
Wow. The washing machine. Did I really know what
half the settings do on washing machines I can
read? Yes. This is a washing machine. I've heard
those things kind of suck. They do kind of suck.
It takes like three hours. Nice. All right, back
to the end times. Yes, so the next topic is the
Auric Bastion. This is the wall, right? Yeah,
this is the wall, and this is still kind of happening
during the Nagash book. So the TLDR of that is
that the Empire decided, well, what if we just
keep all of our problems outside of the Empire?
Which, fair is fair, if you can just pull that
off, valid. So they started with a smaller one.
uh around sylvania just a big old magical wall
kept going by the combined efforts of various
engineers uh in part but mostly uh the faith
of the uh like faithful orders of the empire
like sigmar especially ulric tal all them as
well as the efforts of the wizards of the colleges
of magic particularly the gold college because
balthasar gelt was the guy heading this Now,
the one in Sylvania was a great, you know, testing
ground. The one around all of the Empire, a little
bit bigger, a little bit harder to put that one
up. So, guilt wasn't quite up to snuff. What
he did receive from a vampiric agent of Vlad
von Karstein, who incidentally, I believe, is
all but confirmed to be a vampire lady named
Genevieve, and then a very, very long name, one
of Warhammer's older special characters. gave
Gelt some spicy texts on necromancy. And given
the circumstances of the end of the world rapidly
approaching and Archeon the Everchosen coming
on down, those are always terribly destructive.
Balthasar Gelt felt that the ends justified the
means, began studying necromancy, and raised
the Auric Bastion around the Empire. It held
for a while until Gelt's necromancy was revealed,
when the Changeling basically tricked him into
revealing... He was a necromancer, as well as
almost killing Karl Franz and Sigma Reborn. Gelt
was not looking very good at this point. It was
not a good look for Mr. Supreme. But could you
tell? Because he always wears that mask. Could
you tell if he was like... He probably wasn't
very happy. When you start throwing up zombies
ad hoc, it's not a good look. Well, Gelt is just
like, how are you feeling? I am... Not Supreme
right now. The eyebrows and the mask sag. And
so with that, the Orc Bastion came crumbling
down because the various orders started withdrawing
their support upon the revelation that necromancy
was at least in part holding it up. And the way
was paved for Archeon to enter the Empire. I
really don't enjoy this plotline of like, oh,
Balthazar Gelt must, like him doing the necromancy
one. I didn't feel like it was... It is a bit
goofy because it feels like it was added in as
like, oh, the wall has to fall somehow. Yeah.
And I'm much more of the opinion like it would
have been better if, say like, you know, when
Kislev fell. So Kislev gets attacked first, as
they always do. Such is their role. Such is their
role. I think it'd be cool if like some of the
survivors of Kislev, like they flee. into the
Empire and they help resurrect, well, they help,
sorry, erect the massive Auric Bastion. Pardon?
But my Auric Bastion being resurrected. Erect?
Erecting, sorry. Resurrecting is like... Al is
erect. I'm much more of the opinion like it's
cooler if Archeon did something where he had
to develop a way to actually break down... entrances
like into like it turns into kind of like a magical
siege in some way i think that's much more interesting
rather than there's like some like oh we had
to find a way to make the walk you know oh no
we made this impenetrable wall that will stop
the end times psych guys you're not allowed to
have that you know i'd rather like they find
a way around breaking through it rather than
it falls through come kind of like we're shocked
by the way like I'm pretty sure a lot of them
are like, you know what I mean? Like if he has
a massive wall and it's like, it was made by
bad methods. And it's like, there's literally
people who are like, like, you know what I mean?
It's the empire of man. They're not used to doing
a few distasteful things. So I think I'm more
of the opinion, like change it into, like it
gives Archeon something to do as well, a bit
more, a bit more of like he finds like, because
a lot of the time we don't get to see that Archeon
is also a brilliant strategist as well. So therefore
we maybe can find a way to actually turn into
a proper layered siege, where they break into
each empire province slowly and slowly, so they're
creeping more towards Aldorff rather than, hey
guys, we gave up on the wall, psych, let's just
let our defenses down. Or get the Skaven's help
to go under the wall, and then... Or right there,
they're right there. It's not like they don't
do that all of the time. We could have a, speaking
of someone who's with Archeon at the time, isn't
it? Thanquil, I believe. So that does come about
later, is the one word. Like Thanquil's book
is actually, I believe, the second to last. Also,
Thanquil is barely in his own book. Well, that
could be a way for him to, that could be his
whole thing. Doing things, yeah. Yeah, he'd actually
be doing something. Is there anything, yeah.
Any other thoughts you had for improving it,
Colin? I kind of agree, especially because if
we're going to have the wall, it could be more
proactive on Chaos' part to actually destroy
it, as opposed to the Changeling just does a
funny Balthasar Gelt looks stupid, and then the
wall just snaps. It's gone. I feel like you could
do some really creative things with magic as
well. Rather than just let's have a big weapon
that blows up the wall, you could do some weird
stuff like, oh, it messes with the cement between
the bricks, which loosens them, or they use something
that like... They're kind of... There was a little
bit in one of the Godric and Felix novels. It's
actually Acold Hellbreast, like the Tzeentian
life wizard. He finds a crack in the wall, so
he basically makes, I think, like flowers bloom
so intensely through it that they rip it apart.
Which, that was pretty cool. And then Snorri
Nosebiter plants a car bomb under his feet and
he blows up. Regular rats can bite through brickwork
and metal. So I could imagine there'd be, like
you were saying, Skaven. You just have a massive
swarm of them. And at first, all the people are
like, why are they not attacking to try and scale
the wall? And they're like, oh, they're making
a... heat shield for some guys below them to
nibble through like the wall itself to make a
breach which then they could plant an explosive
and then they could definitely a big like you
could do some fun stuff instead of just like
helms deep yeah like helms deep but like instead
of one guy with a torch it's like a million rats
trying to cover bigger rats we're just going
Try and shoot through it. They have plenty of
creative monstrosities. They could do something
with it. Also, I think someone mentioned that
Kolek Sun Eater could also do it. He's the size
of a mountain. Although, if I remember correctly,
a little bit before the end times, he was not
killed, but he was... Wait, was he killed? I
think he kills someone else in the end times,
doesn't he? No, but I think it was him. He gets
struck with the horrible fate known as antagonist
in the Gottric and Felix novel. Does Cetra do
something to him? That's why I can't remember
if Cetra kills him or Cetra kills his dad. My
only knowledge of this character is that the
spiffing Brit did a video where he basically
just kind of like... min -maxed him to death.
Cetra did kill Kolek, yeah. But Kolek is just
like, I'm the best character in Total War, according
to the spiffing bricks. He's just like, we're
just going to add more percentages. I was like,
wow. That's actually a really good impression.
Hello there, you silly sausage. It's me, the
spiffing brick. Let's have a lovely cup of Yorkshire
tea. That's how he talks. Yes. Speaking of that
was something very cool though which is next
on the list is the destruction of nagaroth which
uh colin would you i poke the funny again please
uh please tell us well i see look this is before
eli is going to open his mouth because this isn't
a phoenix king debate yet this was uh malekith
decided in his infinite wisdom that the best
way to take ulthuan was to take nagaroth and
push it somewhere else basically So a massive,
what Kord was doing early in the end times was
just assaulting the Dark Elf lands nonstop. And
Malekith decided that, yeah, now's a good time
to take Ulthuan. So he took every single Dark
Elf and invaded Ulthuan. Except for his mother,
who he left in her tower because she was going
a little insane. Every Dark Elf but Meranthe.
And a couple that he killed for various reasons.
He's Malekith, he does that. I know there's like
there's weird parts in the lore where like it
might have been older lore where it's like oh
she like was corrupted by Slaanesh or whatever
but then they changed it to like their own well
she was a Slaanesh worshipper then she worshipped
like the dark elf version of Slaanesh as they
moved away from elves worshipping Slaanesh at
all which is a little silly kind of a shame they
turned him into Eldar I think she should be responsible
for the fall of nagarond slash nagaroth you could
make it so yeah maybe like she does something
and that's what causes malekith to jump ship
because as it reads now the vibe i get is he's
like well i don't need this country anymore time
to go to one i also think as i go so good it's
like i look man you're putting a lot of faith
in being able to do something that for the last
10 000 years you failed at every single time
you were putting a whole lot of eggs in this
basket right now I like the idea of it. There's
some kind of event thing. She's like, she embraces
Slaanesh's corruption. And then the, because
it would explain in a way, like obviously armies
are invading everywhere. They're invading Cathay,
which obviously gets ignored, you know, a bit.
I think Zeke should be more involved in that
kind of stuff, but it could be explained like
she's the one who responds because she's kind
of responsible for the whole. dark elf, you know,
high elf split anyway. Yeah, so I think it'd
be quite funny if, like, in a way, she does a
sort of similar thing where, you know, she spread
chaos, you know, she spread cults, you know,
before, and she does the same thing again, and
it ends up being, like, her own arrogance is,
like, she's some kind of champion, or, like,
she seeks... She seeks, like, immortal glory,
you know, immortality through demonhood or whatever,
and Slaanesh just doesn't grant it and betrays
her. and then she is sent to um oath one to chase
uh her son malekith to eventually turn to try
and turn him to chaos uh but i'll save my next
part for that later but my point is like she
like in her own arrogance she thinks she's gonna
be rewarded and she doesn't get it so i think
that could be the result of their destruction
and then maybe maybe quite cool as well like
if there's a human uprising like all the slaves
like this is a random uprising that gets poorly
timed with a chaos invasion yeah that's what
ends up making it fail that that could be cool
because again as it reads it is just malik is
like okay we're all leaving now yeah yeah it
needs to be untenable that's the whole point
like they can handle the slave uproar of up rising
no problem chaos incursion they can handle that
same time no a little little rough yeah yeah
but yeah because otherwise it is just time to
pack up shop and abandon this country what we
have ruled for 10 000 years speaking of uh the
uh the venom of this debate though the sinking
of old one and the merging of the elven races
not my phoenix king no these aren't mer these
are cool elves and want to have a quick go at
explaining just the the brief notes of that i
want eli you want to you want to start with this
one and then malachite warned and he was actually
the phoenix king all along the end pretty much
uh so techless is a conniving little and helped
put Malekith on the Phoenix throne by getting
the previous leader, Phoenix King Finnebar, killed.
And it is revealed that the whole time in the
End Times, we learned that the whole time, Malekith
was always the rightful Phoenix King. He just
needed to mature a little bit. And if he stayed
in the fire of Assyrian way back when, just a
little bit longer, he probably wouldn't have
been, you know, Kentucky Fried Elf. but he would
have been instead the rightful Phoenix King.
And every Phoenix King ever since then was actually
using magical wards to keep Assyrian from burning
them because they were all pretenders, which
I will note is awful. Is it retconned as well?
Yes, it is. Them all being given wards was never
a thing prior to the end times. Age of Sigmar
retcons it. Because when Marathi's ascending
to godhood, she steals bits of Viserion's power
from the Phoenix Kings in Slaanesh. Lore so bad
that the next setting goes back to retcon it.
It's a fake. Regardless of whether you think
Malekith should be on top or not, like, you know,
some people here. Tyrion takes the sword of Cain,
doesn't he? Yeah, and then in the meantime, Tyrion's
like, well, my brother kind of got my daughter
killed. My brother got... the Phoenix King, who
was still one of my best friends, killed. He's
now put our arch enemy on top of, you know, like,
Ulthuan's hierarchy. I've got nothing left to
lose. So he draws the Sword of Cain from the
Shrine of Cain in Nagareth and just goes mad.
And elves start picking sides between those loyal
to Malekith, for one reason or another, which
includes high and dark elves, and those loyal
to Tyrion. which for a variety of reasons also
includes high and dark elves. And Ulthuan, it
goes from like basically the only nice place
in all of Warhammer fantasy consistently to World
War Elf. And in the meantime, Teclis is doing
a ritual with the winds of magic to bind each
of them to a single person, all of which were
originally going to be elves. But Marathi intervenes
in that and starts sabotaging the ritual. Slaanesh
herself begins showing up through the vortex.
And she's stopped after Kalidor Dragontamer,
the guy who made the vortex, basically just full
Nelsons her down into Slaanesh. But the ritual
goes wrong. About the only thing that goes right
was his staff got the Wind of Light. Alariel
got the Lore of Life. And because the Vortex
was undone, all of the other Winds of Magic spirit
off to go to other people, and Ulthuan sinks
because the Vortex was what was keeping it up.
And then the Winds of Magic said, fuck this shit,
I'm out. I'm going somewhere else. And then it
releases Sigmar's soul. It does release Sigmar
from the Vortex, which is itself kind of a retcon,
but also not quite, because in a lot of older
fantasy stuff, even Sigmar actually being a god
was an open -ended question sometimes. So the
end result is Ulthuan sinks. Malekith does defeat
Tyrion, but Teclis ends up reviving him later
on. And all of the elves then go to Athel Loren.
They merge into just elves. None of them are
terribly happy about this, but Ulthuan's gone.
Naggarond is... smoking husk. So they're all
squatting in Athel Loren. Does anyone have any
ideas? Because I've got a few, but I'll let everyone,
if they've got any ideas of what really needs
fixing in that lore, what stands out to you guys?
I mean, all of it just sucks. I think it's clear
that Malekith should have never been a Phoenix
Lord because he's clearly a poopy bum bum. It's
the same thing. No! It's Eldar. It's the same
thing. No! If Malachy just won the war in Ulthuan
and chased all the good elves out and then they
went to Althalore and while Malachy squats in
Ulthuan and then you don't have to sink the entire
place and destroy everything and it's all stupid.
I don't know. Also, I... Just flat out remove.
Do what Age of Sigmar ended up doing, honestly.
That saved it a little bit, where just make it
so if you want him to be put in place by, like,
Teclis and, like, the goddess Lilby as, like,
you know, machinations and scheming, make it
so, like, he was the best of a bad option. He's
the most, like, authoritarian, powerful elf who
can, through force or just previous loyalties,
bind elves together. Don't make it so the whole
time he actually was, like, secretly chosen and
everyone else was actually bad like you thought
why did you just make that up there was no reason
for that to be the case he has the power to be
the phoenix king now yeah he didn't have it before
building on that i have an idea which is uh the
uh marathi you know fully fending for herself
at this point a lot of events kind of go similarly
except When she fails, she is completely devoured
by Slaanesh. My brain says she should die here.
And I believe Malika should be involved in killing
her. And some of the events I would say continue,
which was Teclis does draw this sword of Cain.
And I would like it if they both end up at the
point where... Is it the central island area
where they have the Phoenix Flame? Is it, Colin?
Not quite, no. The very center is the Vortex.
It's the Shrine of Asury, and I think it's closer
to the southern end. What's the hole in a donut
called? What? Donut hole. They're like donuts.
There's like a hole in the middle. The donut
hole? That's what it's called for the elves,
then. It's the donut hole. Do you know what would
be really cool, though, is that the idea is,
like, the Malekiths and Tirion's fight ends up
clashing near the flame. And it could be a thing
of, like you said, like, Malekith becomes the
option when Asurion sees that essentially...
Sorry. Yeah, basically, the two of them end up
in the flames once again. They're both dying.
And... or based or essentially it could be like
Tyrion pushes him back into the flames to kill
him. And because it's either let Cain, you know,
mop up all the Elven survivors or Assyrian, Assyrian
chooses Malekith as like, well, I can't go with
the other guy. You're my only option. And in
some way, Malekith's like. obviously betraying
his mother and like saying i'm not gonna sign
up with chaos you know i'm not a great guy but
i'll protect elven kind or whatever that is i'm
a villain yeah not a monster yeah he he's he's
the man of the the moment sort of thing and this
ends up killing i think is it elita now ends
up shooting one of them i think that's a really
weird cameo in the end time part where it's like
i can kill you guys or something you know you
know i sorry like Make that guy go somewhere
else. Leave it to the drama to unfold between
these two. And I think it's a thing where it
becomes an uneasy alliance of where the sword
of Cain is almost completely depowered after
this, but Malekith wields it as a kind of symbol
of office, no longer bearing the curse. of his
a bloodline or whatever you know the curse of
an uh is it not an arian is it an arian because
it's like because the curse is removed temporarily
uh you know because of like basically it's been
redeemed you know well quote quote redeemed um
and then hear me out the like what happened before
many of the elven cities, like what the Dark
Elves did, they raise up from the land and they
float towards the Old World in this mass evacuation
as Ulthuan starts to sink. Do you think that
would be a better... You could do some, yeah,
give them some territory too, instead of like,
and we're all now in Athel Loren. Treeland. The
forest that already doesn't like the Wood Elves
sometimes now has the other ones in it. i think
the idea of like all the elven so becoming like
the like you know the black arcs that still exist
they kind of float like this massive armada towards
the old world to basically try and recuperate
in some of the old elven places which could create
some tension with the empire obviously because
they like why we live in some of those places
but um i think that'd be quite a cool way to
like some characters just need to die off and
like let it die and techless is like well i've
made this alliance and Alariel was like, I guess
I have to be with this guy who just killed my,
you know, boyfriend, whatever. Maybe we don't
need Alariel to marry Malekith either. I forgot
about that one. Maybe we can also not do that.
We don't need that. It's a political marriage,
isn't it? It is. It's purely a political marriage.
She still hates his guts, but it's like, man.
Yeah. I think that's a good way of saving it
so far. It'd be a cool scene if Tyrion pushed
him in the fire and then Malekith just walks
out and Tyrion has to do something. That'd be
cool. Is he healed from the fire? No. He's still
crispy bacon. I think it'd be quite cool if he
emerges from the fire and his black armor almost
falls off because it's... no longer bound to
his, you know, broken frame. That'd be kind of
cool. And then he turns into Hayden Christensen.
You brought her here to kill me! Liar! Tyrion
would be Anakin. Liar! You turned them against
me! You're with him! Before we get any further,
do you have any more donations? We do have a
few donations. Would you like to read this one
out? Oh, Conrad's number one stand. That is a
lady. Five bucks. The only way to make the end
times good is to have Grease's gold tooth riding
on his non -plus. And Benny Paul Panache on,
breaking him into other bands. That would be
peak. Have it canon where that old Total War
bug that gave him 500 movement speed is a thing.
Angry Homunculus. Couldn't they have asked the
Dragon Emperor to make a wall? Honestly, just
have Cathay involved more. Kill Main Burn. Iron
with it. Sir, you're a little lost on the end
of that one, but thank you for the five pounds.
So as much as I would like more Cathay, the problem
with that is that... the refresh happened for
Total War and Old World. They weren't really
part of things because they weren't really much
of a thing. That's as a general little side tangent.
The overview would be if you can rework it to
make it less crap, assuming the world's still
blowing up, involve them more, because all of
their involvement is... The Chaos Dwarfs take...
No, Grimgor takes the Great Bastion. Skaven take
the southern half. The Chaos Dwarfs then take
the Great Bastion from Grimgor because he let
them, who then kills all the Chaos Dwarfs for
fun. And the Dragon Emperor supposedly sails
off into nowhere, to a realm free from chaos
with his surviving people. Which, now that we
know he had a bunch of Primarch dragon children,
and also a wife, and also was an actual Dragon
Emperor, and that's just his title. Speaking...
There's so much where it's like that could be
its own episode. Speaking of China, do you think
it would be really cool to have a Dynasty Warriors
game, but with Warhammer Fantasy characters?
Oh my god, my childhood. It's Gotrick and Felix
at the Hulau Gate! Did you guys play that game,
Paul and Eli? Did you play it? Dynasty Warriors.
I played a little bit, and I played some derivatives
of it. dignity warriors four empires oh and five
empires the amount of i learned so much chinese
history and how to pronounce names with sex as
jahu dun i love jahu dun oh my god that guy with
the one jang liao jang liao is here what happened
The arrow hitting the eye. The Dynasty Warriors
3 audio is fantastic. What's the guy who's like
the rebel guy who's like he's in charge of the
battle of Hulagate then he rebels and he's like
I'm gonna give you a taste of my magic. Like
the voice acting in that game. Is this the bit
where it's like the Yellow Turban Rebellion or
later? Yeah, the Yellow Turban Rebellion. Yeah,
it's amazing. I don't remember. Dong Zhuo. Whenever
you play campaigns, that's more towards the beginning,
isn't it? Yeah. I spent a whole minute trying
to play that game. Sorry, tangent. Yeah, Southside
is ridiculous. Southside, yeah. Our fallen world,
the Fiverr, thank you. Just finished Slayer,
thanks for the heartache, Colin. Yeah, man. And
that book made me think the end times could be
averted. Felix and Ulrica killed Hellbrass. That
was just one part of the wall that he broke through.
Also, again, I swear that was the Snorri Nosebiter
car bomb special that got Hellbrass. But they
could have, I think even out of universe, like
the author said, if order got their shit together
quicker, chaos would have been defeated. But
they didn't because the setting needed to go.
Square brand rip, queek, the very best of Skavenkader.
He wants to be the very best. Queek is the name
that he makes when he gets belly slopped by an
ogre. Dude, she... I'd be queeking on her head
taker till she Carrick ate Peaks. No, she's queeking
on my head until I ate Peaks. Yeah. All will
wear a green head in five weeks with the two...
Euro. No. Yes. Euros. Colin, how does it feel
to be 50 % of AOS content? I think that's giving
me way too much credit. I don't know. I don't
know. All I'll say is it's definitely the best
AOS content. Thank you. Jay Townsend. Morning
from Australia, lads. Good morning. Thank you
for the tour. It's the snake, man. It's the snake,
dude. This is a knife. That's a spoon for a national
treasure. JTownSend again. Thank you for the
A10. How to fix the end times? Don't let GW fix
the whole thing so Chaos wins despite taking
massive Ls from every other faction. Ah, Spooky
Kabuki. Good to see you, man. For five bucks,
I want to know what Colin thinks of the new AOS
end times rumors. a really silly so for those
unaware there's rumors from combining all of
the mortal realms into one realm and it's just
going to be warhammer fantasy round two but as
stupid as i don't i don't i don't want that at
all i look with the old world we can have two
cakes now we have two cakes we don't need to
come smash them together But I would also find
it really funny if every 10 years they just cycle
back and forth. Like now they blow up AOS and
bring back fantasy. And then in 10 years more,
they blow up fantasy again and it's back to AOS
and it's just the infinite cycle. And then the
whole time, the 50 Space Marine releases. Then
we're going to have alternate timelines. Is the
Kelvin timeline for fantasy there? Oh, great.
That worked out great for Star Trek. Not a good
time. They could so keep the... They finished
the end times of fantasy and they survived. They
could so do that if they wanted to. You can go
down the Storm of Chaos timeline. They could
do Mortal Kombat where it's like, ah, I became
a god and I recreated everything because now
Liu Kang is in Raiden's place and now Raiden
is not a god anymore. He's just a farmer. Where
am I now? There's been two timeline resets. Deadly
Alliance isn't a thing anymore, nor is the Dragon
King. Apocalypse. I mean, it's been going on
for like 20... Wait, Sub -Zero is Scorpion and
Scorpion is Sub -Zero? Okay, wait. So, wait,
is Noob Saibot still Sub -Zero? Okay, but he's
now Scorpion... Mortal Kombat, lower episode.
Confusing as shit. Kuai Liang and Sub -Zero are
like them. brothers yeah man i like johnny cage
i like international love like american personifies
like hey guys i love how we know the newest one
there's like an indiana jones mission where you
play as him it's like him on a movie set it's
quite fun um yeah more combat oh one more snuck
in from jay townsend for 20 thank you very much
yeah also friends snake was removed safely from
the bin by a professional snake catcher almost
almost bit the snake catcher, however, so apparently
I'm more effective than a professional at catching
snakes. You almost bit the snake catcher. I believe
the snake almost bit the snake catcher. That
would have been very funny, though, if he's just
like, hey, mate, I've got the snake. Thank you.
No, no, no, no. The ice cream truck is here.
Sirens are very loud here, and they have them
on all the time whenever they're driving. It's
not like... In Canada, sometimes the sirens aren't
on for police. No one's around, but around here,
there's always on no matter what time of the
night. Hey guys, check this out. The next order
of business is the incarnates gain the winds
of magic and they are empowered by each element.
This one is, so there's eight winds of magic
in Warhammer fantasy. Teclis, through his little
funny with the goddess Lilith, bound each of
them to a person, or in his case, his staff,
which is a divine gift, so fair enough. And the
ritual went out of control, part of why Ulthuan
sank. So what ended up happening was they all
just bound to a certain person, like Grimgor
got the lore of beasts. Thorgrim at first got
the Lore of Metal. Gelt got it after Thorgrim
got stabbed. Ungrim got the fire? Ungrim got
fire. I can't remember if he got it first or
if Caradhran got it, and then when Caradhran
died. Who's Caradhran? He is the head of the
Phoenix Guard. Oh. They all take a vow of silence,
and then after Assyrian... died he just started
talking because the divinely mandated vow of
silence only lasts as long as the god keeping
it going is alive to keep it going um but yeah
so they they basically techless's intention was
to basically replace the gods uh in a lot of
ways which uh it didn't quite work especially
because sigmar was the incarnate of the heavens
so It ends up just being nothing. Like, it's
a cool idea, and it makes, like, these, you know,
superpower models. Like, Karl Fran's Ascendant
is the biggest unga -bunga beatstick, at least
for a turn. But they do nothing. Like, Karadrin,
he unleashes the entirety of the Wind of Fire
into Kabanda. It doesn't kill. Kabanda's mighty
shalom. Yeah, Cabanda's mighty schlong tanked
the wind of fire and Radren died. I think it'd
be quite cool if someone like... Do you think
every character would be the perfect incarnate,
or would you have someone else who's... Well,
part of it was that the ritual going wrong leading
to some of the incarnates, I do like. Malekith's
supposed to get fire, but he instead got shadow.
So I kind of like it messing up like that. But
also it's like I do more with it because the
jump ahead a bit, like they could have done something
with the incarnates becoming crucial, like forming
the mortal realms for Age of Sigmar because there
was one final ritual where they were all involved.
That's not why that happened. So do anything
with them, I guess, is my starter point. Don't
have one of them get like. diffed by a chaos
demon after an entire eighth of all it gets poured
into the demon i don't care that it's a bloodthirster
that's an eighth of all met crispy fried obliterated
but like no they just do nothing and then the
gas chokes them out i like the idea like the
they become so powerful like you know like the
emperor's sword and 40k they would like unwind
like the essence of a demon I like that if they
each had the power to do that so it's a thing
of like it makes them extra dangerous because
they can actually kill a demon's like I guess
essence immortally so that could be like a threat
it makes the good guys seem like they actually
got a chance so like if they play it strategically
they could basically use this power as the gift
that it is I don't mind like you said like it
going wrong for quite a few of them because that's
just how it should be but the idea like it's
just kind of like hey it's just a mega you know
i mean like i just gone to super saiyan you know
three and it turns out like yeah that's fucking
useless at the moment you know that's great thanks
guys uh i mean to be fair i wouldn't change too
much about it again like you said i probably
make it just more more essentially what it is
though uh and that so they obviously across the
end times like various different characters they
end up being i think it'd be quite cool if it
does transfer a few times because then it's showing
like it you know some well -known characters
do have to die uh speaking of something that
well -known characters that should all die uh
the skaven you know blessed be to the horn rat
who throws his kids into the meat grinder colin
the next one is uh the skaven rise up and yeah
we need some more info on this one because it's
I it's, it's honestly, you say that it's not
that much to it. Uh, the great horned rat is
summoned into the world to get the Skaven on
the same page. Finally, because every now and
again, even he's like, all right, it's funny
watching you stab each other, but come on, let's,
let's get some, let's get the ball rolling. So
he does that eats the previous, like, you know,
head of the, like the seer Lord, the head of
the council of 13 basically, uh, replaces him
with thankful, which. one of the decisions of
all time undoubtedly i do like that though and
i do it does make sense it is yeah his whole
life is failing upwards he's he's failed to the
top finally uh and with uh with the horned rat
and thankful's guidance and alliances or no i'm
jumping ahead a bit uh the the skaven will rise
up to devour the surface world and so thank well
he finally takes gnome he did it After Gotrek
and Felix stopped him all those years ago, he
got his dub. He got the Nuln Oil. He got the
Nuln Oil. And then in the background, the Skaven
overrun like two -thirds of the world. Like Hylia,
Estalia, the Border Princes, all of Araby, most
of Cathay, just chunks of the Empire. They just
become supremely overpowered and just start devouring
everything. And in spite of being able to...
Are you a moon rock enjoyer? Oh yeah, they also
blow up the moon, that's right. I don't know
if I'm a moon rock enjoyer. No, I think it's
funny as hell. What do you mean by that? They
kill the lizardmen, right? They also just completely
overrun the lizardmen. Oh my gosh. And despite
doing all of that, the horned rat still goes,
I don't have the power to beat chaos. Brother,
what? You just overran the world. I think you
do. I think the Horned Rat should at some point
near the very end attempt to betray the other
Chaos Gods, but it doesn't come to fruition fast
enough. Or at least 1v1 one of them. I don't
know. Honestly, I think what they could do is
make the Skaven less so resoundingly successful.
Because as it stands, there's no reason for them
to shack up with Chaos because they are so ascendant.
But if they make it so like, you know, like Araby
and, you know, some of the other states are able
to hold them back, they don't just drop the moon
on the Lizardmen or they're able to hold them
back much more effectively before the moon drop.
They could make it so the Horned Rat actually
is like, okay, they should probably just join
Chaos now because it's not looking like I've
got many rats left, relatively speaking, of course.
It could be like the... Go ahead, Andy. So who
are the Skaven allied to in the End Times? Chaos.
Just chaos. They're not sipping the Kool -Aid.
They're just allied to it. Well, they kind of
are chaos in some way. The Horned Rat's kind
of a chaos god. Yeah, but they're not like Kornate
or Sinchian. No, they're their own faction. This
is what I'm getting at. Could you have a thing
where maybe Sinch starts spinning some webs in
order to be like, I don't want this to end. I
want to keep this going. Then all of a sudden
you get... Chaos Corrupted Skaven and then Trueborn
Skaven are like, oh, Horned Rat's the only way.
Why are you blue? That's cringe. And then like
Cornate ones are like, that's a good fight. And
then you have like Chaos infecting the ranks.
They're kind of thinking like the enemy of my
enemy of my enemy is my good time pal. Let's
kill each other sort of deal. rather than having
the kind of loyalist component where that's like,
oh, well, they're not going to side with the
Skaven, but the Skaven would be undone by their
own hubris or ambition, so to speak. It's just
too much of a meme idea. When they blow up the
moon, a second moon hits. And then the second
moon is like when they're on the surface. There's
been a second morselia. If they could blow up
the moon and accidentally wipe out half of the
Skaven at the same time. Yeah, that's what I
mean. They accidentally blow up a chunk of the
moon fur, then they rise up once that's hit,
and they're like, oh, time to wreck everyone's...
do everyone a bad haircut. And then it turns
out the second half of Moresleep is about to
hit. I think they should fail spectacularly in
some way. as on point. Or if there's Skaven nukes,
just a full -on Skaven nuke that goes off in
Skaven Blight. Skaven trying to deploy the nukes,
accidentally detonate them mid -process. Like,
whoopsie! Like their equivalent of Chernobyl.
Like, yeah, that would work. Oops. My overall
thing would be make them less successful so them
joining with Chaos is like an actual thing and
not just the writers going, yeah, no, they need
to. Trust us. What are they doing with Nagash?
Oh, they put the nuke under his Black Pyramid
and blow it up. No changes. Scrap the Black Pyramid
thing. I really hate that they have to keep doing
the Black Pyramid skit. No, it's funny. No. More
Black Pyramids. It's so funny that in AOS the
solution was to turn them upside down and build...
The way they write it, it's dead serious, though.
I like it. Come on. It's funny. Leave the Black
Pyramid be. I like that the Black Pyramid survives,
to be honest, but it just doesn't work well enough
because there's not enough people left alive
to, like... No, I think they do blow it up. Like,
it's just totally gone, at least in the end times.
He builds more in Age of Sigmar. No, but what
I mean is, like, he builds one, but there's not
enough... Like, he needs to kill people to, like,
power it. And there's not enough people... Basically,
the second moon hits. There's not enough sacrifices.
Yeah, there's not enough. So Nagash's big plan
to reenact the ritual and kill all the people
around the world. There's not enough people left
to do it. So he's like, okay, I guess I'll side
with the Order people because now I actually
can't fight chaos by myself. And he brings the
Black Pyramid that just floats ominously over
Middenheim. Yeah. And then that gets blown up.
Yeah, that will get blown up. The next one is
also a pretty quick, simple one. The greenskins
all unite. It's just for the sake of that's a
very big thing, but it's also just exactly as
simple as it sounds like. Grimgor gets all the
boys under him, including the goblins. Skarsnik
is the prophet of Mork. Grimgor is the prophet
of Gork. Orzag is around, dancing. Is it Skarsnik?
Did they forget Skarsnik? They did. We only know
that Skarsnik was around after Carrick ate Peaks
because I think Josh Reynolds told people out
of universe, which is how like half of all End
Times lore that doesn't suck exists because he
had to patch it up outside of universe. He had
to do triage. What would you do with Skarsnik?
Throw him with the boys. Yeah, I mean, in the
end time, like he was said after Carrick ate
Peaks, he was said to be like, and out of universe
said he was like in the final battle leading
some gabos. So, but I mean, what they really
do is they bulldoze all the way through Chaos
Dwarf territory into Cathay, then back through
Chaos Dwarf territory a bit. They recruit all
the ogres as well. And then Teclis teleports
every green skin and ogre ever into Middenheim.
Nice. He just does that. We'll keep that point,
I think. That's quite cool. But the next one
is the one where I would change stuff, which
is the... Which doesn't make sense to me. The
Chaos Invasion happens in the Empire, they're
pushing through the Old World, and then they
somehow end up at Altdorf before they end up
at Middenheim. So they had actually captured
Middenheim. What happened with that was they
had the flame of Olik, which keeps Middenheim
safe, and then Teclis ripped it out of its socket
to bring bacteria into life, and Olik was like,
hey, man, what the hell? Yeah, it doesn't make
sense in the grand scheme. Like, this grand conspirator
who, like, by the way, guys, crazy idea, get
my niece killed. Lol. We'll destroy the continent,
Nagaroth. We'll reunite Elvenkind, unleash the
Vortex, but I really need my psychotic brother.
I think that should be abandoned, to be honest.
That whole plot line. I like Tyrion. I think
he's done his purpose. there's too many times
where they're like they won't give chaos the
win per se it's more of a like the the good guys
it's everyone else puts on their stupid hats
yeah i think it'd be more of a thing where they
just end up straight up like the high elves go
for like an initial engagement and they end up
losing like i don't i would like to do like they
end up losing the first few rounds like properly
and then i would rather that middenheim falls
And that the final battle more happens around
near Altdorf because that's a bit more of a,
like it's a center of the empire. Do you know
what I mean? Whereas Mindenheim is obviously
like the, you know, the cultural capital in some
way, like, you know, Ulrich's Flame and other
parts. But I think it's just much more of an
interesting setting if it's around Altdorf because
that's like, that's the last bastion of the empire.
Do you know what I mean? That should be. the
place where it's like it finally ends in you
know the capital where it's you know properly
interesting i don't know if everyone would agree
with that like i think minheim could be still
fine to be fair like it's not that bad but anyway
speaking of um uh old dorf old dorf is besieged
and it is sacked by the forces of nurgle god
i hate this part the glockin other uh who's the
other festus i think is there as well uh there's
a massive battle that happens in old dorf and
this is where uh carl franz is i think here there's
uh annoyingly uh forces of bretonia are randomly
here yeah giles uh no no no uh low and low and
core is uh yeah uh he dies here Yeah, Bretonnia
came out the worst of the end times, which I'm
okay with. I don't think Leon Kerr should be
here at all, by the way. He should be doing literally
anything else. Yeah. Being in Bretonnia. The
opening fact that, by the way, what is it? They
basically went from the wall has fallen to the
empire has fallen in the span of in between bringing
up the empire. It's like, all right, the wall
has fallen. Chaos is coming now. It's time to
get ready. They're in Altdorf, which is at the
other end of the fire. You missed a few steps
there, buddy. You kind of bulldoze through all
of it with pretty minimal prominence. I think
the idea of it, because the character of Volton
is the supposedly, like, there's a weird part.
He's like the reborn Sigma character -ish, where
he has the twin hammers. He's got the twin comet.
mark on his body, does he call it? Does he have
the twin? Yeah, he's got the twin -tailed comet
as a birthmark. Just make him Sigmar, as in,
like, make him reborn Sigmar. Just pull your
finger out and do it. And, like, I think there's
a thing of Karl Franz. Yeah, because Karl Franz
ends up giving him, he makes him the head of
the church, doesn't he? He gives him Galmaraz.
I don't... I like the idea that Karl Franz doesn't
end up becoming the Incarn or the Lord of the
Law of Heaven. I think Karl Franz should die
the statesman that he was. He should die the
emperor that he was. He was a man. He was not
erased by Sigma. I like the idea of him just...
The initial engagement maybe happens around...
uh talabekheim or something and that's where
the empire like initially loses and that they
lose middenheim and they fall back to altdorf
where like essentially they are emperorless whatever
and then they essentially the siege of altdorf
has remained like a massive stalemate for a long
time until the forces of order eventually have
to come and reinforce them i think because it
is a is a bit more like a siege of helms deep
like we reference that kind of thing there where
like you know Not like everyone else comes to
save the day, but make it a proper siege rather
than, by the way guys, the capital's gone, whoops.
Sorry, Colin, do you want to explain a bit more
of the events, our actual canon, technically,
about the siege of Altdorf? Yeah, so Vlad is
also there, Vlad von Karstein. Vlad has a sword
that drinks the blood of whoever he stabs into
it. He stabbed the Glotkin, which are these big
old Nurgle monsters, and he got icky, gross Nurgle
blood, so he left by just going off to vomit.
Maybe not have him there, because that's just
so stupid. Or at least give him a different weapon
so his exit from the battle isn't just vomiting
and going to be hung over from Nurgle crap. Let's
see what else. Bretonnian Liu and Leon Kerr should
not be there. No. Maybe do something with Altdorf
after because when Sigmar resurrects Carl...
Also, by the way, there's fun... Let's stop there
for a moment. With the end of that book, the
way it reads is that Carl Franz was brought back
to life because he mentions there's a presence
in my soul. I don't know what the hell that is.
There's more than just me in here right now.
And then in the next book, Carl's actually dead
the whole time. It's just Sigmar. So they retconned
the event in the next book before the world even
blew up. It's such a mess. So if nothing else,
just how about pick a lane on that? You're right.
I think Bolton should just be Sigmar. But if
you're going to have it be Carl, pick a lane.
Bolton, yeah. And then Bolton just calls himself.
After he realizes he is Sigmar, he just declares
himself Sigmar. Yeah. but and failing that i
mean do something with altdorf like again we're
operating the assumption it's still the end times
they're going to lose but like the ending of
it is like sigmar and this brilliant magical
like blast of you know holy light purified altdorf
of all the nurgle like just corruption and sickness
and then we never come back to altdorf It's just
like, we cleaned it up. Everything is good to
go. This is going to be the shining bastion of
order going forward. No, it's not. We're done
mentioning it. I think the idea of, like, we
need to have a thing where it creates, like,
there's kind of a two -front war. There's, like,
the survivors in Bretonnia, what, you know, supposedly
of, like, Aberrash and, you know, the vampire
ones who are still there, and then last, the
Bretonnians. I generally think it's a thing of...
like if it's the end times don't have everyone's
like it have everybody at the end time final
battle sort of thing if like the idea like someone
should still be scattered or like you know goddamn
cathay's forgotten or whatever is a bit of a
missed opportunity to have everyone almost on
like this galactic like scale battlefield where
like uh yeah around the ruins of what is left
of old dorf i think that'd be quite a Yeah, I
think also, to be fair, like the idea is like
the, if say like Archeon isn't here, like Chaos
also is, Chaos is not, is a bit too unified throughout
much of the end times. That's true. There should
be a bit more plot. Say when Middenheim falls,
there should be a thing of like the Skaven start
to try and betray Archeon. I think there should
be some kind of inter -chaos. conflicts or particularly
like it's the same thing like you know what makes
bellicore interesting is like he thought he was
beyond the chaos god's hell well archon is a
bit too i don't know i have too much to say about
archon that's going to be a hard episode you
know i mean but just some kind of conflict that
means that archon is is somewhat facing challenges
throughout his invasion rather like i said like
a few of the young khan characters die like make
some things more interesting rather than he gets
fighting the character Volton, and then some
vermin lord ends up stealing the kill, and it's
like, well, that's just no fun. That's one of
the more boring aspects of the End Times. He
doesn't get to kill a... Does he actually kill
anyone in the End Times? A big character? Other
than technically... Well, a vermin lord steals
his kill on Volton. That's kind of it, yeah.
Huh. It's got to be one, surely. Yeah, like maybe
the last of the Kislevites. He kills Kyro's Fateweaver.
Team kill, team kill. Own goal, own goal. Yeah,
and then so the next one we have is Thorgrim
declares the Book of Grudges. That's right, he
killed Grimgold. You did kill Grimm. Yeah, he
did. I should have kicked him in the nuts. So
the next one is Thorgrim declared the Book of
Grudges fulfilled. What does Colin mean by this?
So as the final battle was approaching, Thorgrim
declared that the Book of Grudges, since the
world is ending, has been fulfilled and the dwarfs
would march into the end as one people resolute.
beating the snot out of anyone who had wronged
them ever, which is... Everyone? Yeah. Although,
you know, mostly it was chaos, because, you know,
that's the pressing problem. Also, just for the
fun, adds addition, in this massive undertaking,
they retook Karak Eight Peaks, but also didn't,
because it got blowed up, if I remember correctly.
And Thorgrim forgot to close the door behind
him, so the head assassin of the Skaven... Deathmaster
Snitch stabbed him in the back because once again
he forgot to close a door. Did he cut his head
off? No, I think he just stabbed him in the back.
This is after he's killed Queen, right? He's
in his invincible OP armor. Yeah, invincible
OP armor while he's also the incarnate of metal
magic and I believe his armor has runes specifically
to prevent backstabbing. Head out of pen writing,
my lord. Do you think you should make it to the
final battle? Thorgrim? Yeah, he's the head dwarf.
Not as the incarnate of metal. I like Gelt. It
does make more sense, to be fair. Do you think
there's another one that would make more sense
to give into the... Also, giving an aspect of
magic to the dwarves is kind of really bizarre.
Since they're kind of anti -magic. They could
always have their own thing. They kind of...
like they activate some kind of ancient dwarf
super weapon that's just like uh you know you
know like um oh what's the thing in naruto where
it's like you know like oh the recent thing where
like you like it consumes you but it basically
turns you basically into a super saiyan temporarily
or something the nine -tailed fox yeah well no
but like yeah like the um yeah the uh the the
gates you know like the inner gates Oh, yeah.
Oh, White Guy's thing, where he beat the ever
-loving fuck out of Mothra. What are the dwarf
gods doing in all this? Dead. Not dead. Well,
so Nagash ate Valaya. Yeah. Or at least her power.
And Grimnir was getting ready for Godric to replace
him. And then I think in the meantime, after
that, he just kind of went swinging. Don't remember
what Grugni was doing. I don't think it was important.
They should have shown up at least. It's so stupid
that they're not in some way there. At least
we can't remember them. What is Ungrim doing
all this time? Dying. The real question, we'll
save this for the end though. I don't remember
even how he died. The last part we have to finish
on is the Middenheim, the ritual, the last battle
is enacted. The forces of order, of sentient
life, face legions of untold demons. Everybody
is here. Setra does stuff. That's basically,
you know, he's the one representing, but they
enact this ritual to save the... world, essentially.
All of the Incarns, I believe, come together.
Do they have all of them, or do they have most
of them, I think? I think they had all of them.
And this is where... Colin, do you want to take
over to explain how it kind of went? So they
were able to retake Middenheim from Archeon,
and the plan was to... enact this ritual that
would stop the chaos gate it was an ancient old
ones portal that archaeon had turned into a chaos
gate under middenheim the plan to stop it was
you know have the incarnates do this ritual stabilize
things and prevent chaos's ultimate victory uh
they were all there except for maybe the incarnate
of beasts because i think that was grip gore
and i don't think it went to anyone after he
died not not the the beastmen All right, come
on now. I guess they're chaos. They're chaos,
and also let's not pretend GW is going to give
a shit about the beast. Hey, don't put more effort
into this than GW, Eli. What are you doing? I
guess, to be fair, that could have been one way
to solve the problem of why the ritual fails
is to have the incarnate of beast become a beastman
and he interrupts, but that would be giving the
beastman credit. Kazrax did, right? Todd? Oh,
yeah. By this point, him and Todd had killed
each other. Kazrak. Todd killed Kazrak and then
80 Beastmen jumped Todd. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which,
to be fair to that event, that's about how that
would go. So, the ritual is going okay. Teclis,
at one point, I believe he had a... That might
have been where the incarnate of Beast went,
because Teclis had to take one of the Winds of
Magic into himself on top of the second one.
No. That was the third one. What happened was
during the ritual, Manfred, solely to spite Vlad...
That's how angry I am. Solely to spite Vlad,
Manfred goes up behind Gelt, mid -ritual, to
save the world, which includes Manfred, and stabs
him in the back. This causes Teclis to try and
take on a third wind of magic, which he cannot
handle. The ritual destabilizes, the portal expands
through an outright chaos rift, and the world
ends. Tyrion, who is back now, at least gets,
you know, one redeeming thing in this whole arc,
which is stabs Manfred in the back because he
was finally, you know, almost beginning to forgive
Teclis for all of the scheming, and then he just...
So Manfred got the unmatched power of the sun
through Sunfang through his back, blew his back
out, as it were. Yeah, and then the world ends.
Some people... There's at least a couple nice
little poignant endings. Tyrion and Allariel
hold hands as the world is overtaken by chaos.
The undead actually... And the fucking boot of
all places, the halfling called Neferata and
Kalida actually kind of make up a little bit.
And... the undead and the living go out together
um malekith has a just kind of pathetic end i'm
not gonna lie he's stuck pinned underneath his
dead dragon and uh he's he he's he's at first
he's like i will make the chaos gods pay in this
world or the next and he also reflects on damn
my life kind of sucked didn't it which to be
fair yeah What else? What else am I missing?
The Oak of Ages is the last thing to be overtaken
in the heart of Athel Loren. And then the world
blow up. And now comes... Do you have any way
you think that this... Because as I say, it has
to happen. The entire... In some way, the dream
is not continuing. Can you think of any ways
in which you would make it sit better or have
it be a cooler scene? i like i said earlier have
the incarnates like ritual do something this
isn't stands like they just did it it failed
didn't amount to anything so maybe have it result
in the mortal realms actually forming instead
of just it's just really a coincidence the winds
of magic are just kind of constant they would
have done that whether or not they did in mittenheim
andy eli any uh any thoughts of how you would
give it a little oh uh One more is, like, have
chaos be, like, meaningfully wounded in this?
Like, I don't know. Maybe some of the gods are
the combined effort of all magic in the world
pouring into them. Like, all the chaos gods are,
like, they take a wound that sticks with them.
So it's like, yeah, the world went down, but
it didn't go down quietly, and chaos will forever
be, like, weaker for it. Like, there needs to
be a counterbalance in there. something to give
everyone that isn't chaos credit and make it
feel like the mortal realms weren't a participation
trophy yeah like it's it's like the best i have
is like a shorthand but like similar to how 40
gay has martyrs where it's like oh the sister
of battle died but she became a symbol of like
even though i died i'm still about or like bolstering
the emperor's theoretical power source through
acts of valor it's like you need to have something
That makes it like, even though we died, if we
want to keep the setting going, have something
like bolster Karl Franz ascended through the
sacrifice of heroes, and that's like a power
source. You need something. Eli, what are the
thoughts? I don't know. I don't know why the
world really has to end. They could have won
and then Manfred could have stabbed Balthazar.
Whatever. I don't know, man. I don't know. Losing
is the worst possible case for the whole setting,
to be clear. The ritual could half work and make
a nice little bubble that protects at least something
and then the world blows up around them but the
bubble is still around. I don't know. I like
the idea of Colin suggesting purpose to it. So
my idea is the ritual is not to save their current
world. Basically, the world is dying anyway.
I think the ritual should be like they purposely
destroy the world in a way to create the new
one. Like Mortal Kombat. down like New York City
I think the idea like they essentially they the
reason they should say like although they come
to some kind of knowledge that this cycle keeps
happening in the same way like a world is created
chaos inevitably corrupts it destroys it the
cycle begins anew and they should say this ritual
will create not a world, but realms in which
we'll have a better chance and spread chaos's
power. Like Mortal Kombat. Yeah, I literally
know. Kang is now the god of thunder and fire.
Johnny Cage, the incarnate of the heavens. Kang
is literally like, Raiden, you're terrible at
being the guardian of Earth. I got it from here,
bro. You can just be a farmer. And he's like,
I will make a new realm. And I was like, Baraka
is a goodie now. huh and so is melina kind of
it's like wow but i don't know they're like the
whole new realm time travel shenanigans and uh
what's his name uh the guy who's like he's always
got the shit eating grin uh from the deadly alliance
and he was in blue -eyed samurai as like the
the blacksmith But he's the sorcerer in Mortal
Kombat. And he's just like, I'm still a dick
no matter what timeline. I'm always going to
be a dick. Shao Kahn. Not Shao Kahn. Not Shao
Kahn. No. Chat, who is he? He's the sorcerer
from Deadly Alliance. Not Quan Chi. The other
one, not Quan Chi. Oh God, I can't remember his
name. Shang Tsung. Shang Tsung. Shang Tsung,
yeah. Man, I think they, in some way, they understand
the cycle keeps happening, and therefore this
ritual is actually some kind of defiance of chaos.
And like Colin said, some kind of wound is which,
instead of chaos having one world in which they
are always powered over, they split their...
strength over realms which is makes it more difficult
for chaos to have achieving a total victory um
i think that's important yes to uh to see who's
the strongest fighter so then therefore yeah
he wants to continuously yeah beat down on each
other and keeps releasing more fighting games
uh that could be a way to save it though people
let us know if you have any suggestions yourselves
on anything we've said so far because We're going
to need them. How do the characters become gods?
Is it because they had the winds of magic in
them? A lot of them, yes. Because they had, at
least for some of them, Sigmar was the incarnate
of heavens and it ended up connecting him to
the realm of heavens and making it the god of
it. Some of them were also just kind of like
that, though. The dwarf gods were already gods,
so they lived, so they're still gods. i also
think they should uh get rid of a lot of the
older characters uh like essentially they sacrifice
themselves for this ritual and let age of sigma
almost be its own thing rather than guys Age
of Sigmar is not doing well enough. We need to
bring back another character immediately. It's
like being a dead horse. Just let Age of Sigmar
almost have its own thing rather than, guys,
you know you like Techless. Yeah? Yeah. Well,
don't worry. There's two Techlesses now. There's
Techless in this thing and Techless in this thing.
Wow, I don't want a new thing. I like the old
thing. I don't want a new thing. I just want
Techless again. I want it to be like Marble.
I want it to be like wobble. Duck comics. Let
me pipe down that stupid twink. Excuse me. If
there's no Teclis, how can I eat all the time?
How can I write my fanfic? Excuse me. And then
Forgrim and Teclis kiss. It's amazing. Now kid.
Thorgrim and his twink boyfriend. Rock up in
roller skates. Hitting that elf brazy style from
the back, straight up mid and landing it. They
call it bookending. The gift of language was
a mistake. We're getting rid of grudges. See,
this move is called the Marionburg. Dude, I'm
a Marionburger. Full bun. Substantial loafage.
I must admit, I've been listening to this entire
conversation partially with eyes glazing over
because there's lots of words I don't understand.
characters who i only tangentially understand
my girlfriend i guess any warhammer law yeah
um but it's like i guess the problem is we have
two dichotomies of warhammer fantasy ended and
then it had to be rebooted whereas 40k will never
have as far as i can tell an end times and although
it's like the company's end times yeah money
never stops chewing as frustrating as it is that
like warhammer's like do you want to go to armageddon
again and we're like ah no is it worse than another
like an end times or is it just we'll just have
another samey few campaigns until something interesting
happens now and then can we go back to a crate
or something yeah or ultramarines Do they generally
think there's only three worlds in Warhammer
40k? They're like, guys, is there anything else
other than Armageddon? No, there's not a single
bloody world. To be fair to them, though, they
tried Nachmund. No one cared. They tried Arks
of Omen. No one really cared. Post -Cadia, Plague
Wars was fun because it involved Primarchs and
there was that singed Nurgle's Garden. Other
than that, does anyone really care about the...
War of Beasts, not to be confused with the War
of the Beasts, the War of Beasts of 42nd Millennium.
Not really. There's other, like, Space Marine
home worlds and important period worlds that
people would... Chagoras was relegated to a supplement.
Listen, guys, if there's as many visits to Armageddon
as there is Sharknado movies, including Sharknado
5 Global Warming, then we've really hit the low
point, okay? Scream 7. I mean Armageddon 7. It's
another one. What did any of the Dark Elf characters
do in the End Times? Were they even there? Where's
Loki and Malice? They died. When? Did they do
anything? Malice Darkblade? He gets killed by
someone, doesn't he, Colin? Or has like six novels.
Oh yeah, Malice Darkblade. With Chaos. rising
in power, the demon in him overtakes him and
Malekith kills him. Bruh. That's lame. Yeah,
I believe that was kind of it for him. Does Loki
or Felhard do anything? Bro, Loki or Felhard
doesn't fucking do anything. What? I'm sure he's
on a boat somewhere. I don't remember how he
dies. He returned to Cthulhu. And how does the
Fae Enchantress... What happens to her? Is she
killed? Is she sacrificed? Once it's revealed,
Lilith is the Lady of the Lake, which itself,
like I said, that was originally a different
goddess that was then decided was a guise of
Lilith. I don't fucking remember. Yeah, okay.
Fair enough. Does she become anything for Age
of Sigmar? No. Bruh. Okay. is there like because
because we i know we've kind of like been trimming
away at the proverbial hedge with with end times
is there like a big grand sweeping thing that
we could do for the whole setting where it's
like this would would make it a satisfying conclusion
because i know there's a lot of like that character
didn't die how i like them to this faction just
sort of disappeared and is there like anything
is there like any saving grace broad sweeps that
we could do to just be like instantly make it
a lot better give everyone a lot more credit
than they were given because like Hal said a
lot of the time it's not even chaos winning it's
everyone puts on their stupid idiot hats like
let everyone actually be at their best on their
A game and let the ending be like everyone goes
down fighting and meaningfully does something
is it I know you guys haven't necessarily all
watched much of uh game of thrones but was it
like the similar thing of like oh daenerys kind
of forgot about the iron fleet next episode the
authors outright forgot about half the characters
so yeah yeah i mean i don't know if it was that
level of bad but it was it was unfortunately
rushed and it's a thing of they need to expedite
things so they made people stupid so it could
just be like you can just have it like the two
teams got ready to face each other they fought
and somebody lost like someone's best can just
be like it doesn't have to be like cetera versus
nagash doesn't have to be nagash had to dive
into the realm of the tomb king's undead to devour
their gods to kill him it could have just been
he ended up winning because he's in the gash
like how much it pains me to say because of his
sector is amazing but like he could just win
because he's nagash like He just could win the
fight. Archeon could win the fight once or twice.
I feel like there could have been an implementation
of a bitter irony where whoever wins, they're
like, I've won. But then they don't realize it's
antithetical to their whole being. And so then
they're like, I've won. Oh, no. And then I wept
because there were no more worlds to conquer
sort of thing. It was like, oh, now what? Oh,
now. Kind of like what they say with Horus, if
he were to win the Horus heresy, chaos would
consume itself in civil war and then eradicate
itself from the realm. And then that would be
a cataclysm that would stop chaos. But then maybe
from a fantasy perspective, it brings something
else where then chaos goes, oh, I understand
we need to have someone to fight in order to
propagate. Oh, we'll resurrect the characters
or we'll do a ritual or we'll do something to
try and like... prolong our campaigns because
if we if we win we lose let's start again it
could have been also quite cool like towards
the very end like basically the good guys you
know was it a force of order sorry uh they end
up doing right quite well but again it's an unending
tide of demons and the fact is like chaos thinks
it's basically inevitably going to win so they
just so as chaos should always do in the end
as the world is dying they just turn on each
other like that should have been a bit like just
it's a small note but like it's an important
one to show you like the great game never ends
and that's the whole point like the fact they
turn each other in the end allows the ritual
to go off and then like in some way it means
like it was a you know we've we know we failed
successfully kind of thing yeah i wouldn't complain
if throg didn't kill sigwald and then pee on
him I like that. That was a little unnecessary.
Epic, epic. He deserves it. He absolutely deserves
that fate. Oh no, it's the R word guy who gets
immediately killed by a troll. I love it. And
Mike says that the Lady of the Lake was sacrificed
by Nagash or something. I think she was. Oh yeah,
that was the Fae Enchantress. That's what happens
to her. And the Lady of the Lake was Lilith.
He said Lokir fell hard, got drowned by a god.
I thought he might have been, but he was probably
like when the Avatar of Mothlan died, he sank
like half of Tyrion's fleet, so I'm assuming
Lokir was in that mess. It would be cool if the
Bretonnians and wood elves died together. If
the wood elves let them come to Athel Loren for
a little bit and they fought together, I would
have liked that. And then the Bretonnians said,
never thought I'd be dying by the side of an
elf. How about by the side of a tenuous friend?
A garlic peasant. The wood elves are the nicest
to the Bretonnians of all the humans, so I don't
know. Would've been cool if we got to see Aberration,
the Green Knight, Gilly Breton. Or Orion obliterate
some dudes. No, Orion got obliterated instead.
He got Tyrion'd. Duh, deserved though, that guy
is so ugly. Bruh. Hal hates ugly people. Yeah.
That's why I like you guys. My handsome kings.
I'm joking, I'm joking. Oh my gosh. Crazy. That
being said though, we had models? We saw some
models, didn't we? I got you. Give us some donuts
as well after that. We do. uh so many of the
week i'll start with my one uh gotta add some
space marines um let me just take that off so
my mini of the week is this celestial lions because
they're i like the contrast and this is why i
love them they i like i like the the clean gold
with shiny bits i'm like a magpie i'm like oh
shiny i also like the guy with the heavy bolter
has like the um What are they called? The heavy
Primaris helmet. What are they called? Gravis.
He's got the Gravis helmet just to, like, extenuate.
He's got the chonky gun. And one of them is like,
I got a Thunder Hammer and a plasma pistol. Lol.
He's put the... He's put... That's on the assault
intercessor sprue, I think. But he's put it on
the... He put guns on the assault one, so the
little, like... sort of hit pads sort of thing
isn't there which is nice to add a bit there
that's cool yeah cool guys what is that what's
the shoulder pad and he's got on the far left
one is that a mark uh oh with the studs yeah
like yeah it's another hh1 yeah yeah it's cool
nice uh then the next one this one is from uh
summoner of the counts oh boy Yeah. It's a lizard
fan. How did the freaking Lizardmen lose in End
Times when this MF exists, bro? Like, what the
heck? This is one of the coolest models they
got for Age of Sigmar. What happens to him in
End Times? Oh, he decides he's done being dead.
So he just comes back. And then he dies again.
Lizard god, but they lose to moon. I also want
to clarify, it's not necromancy, he's just like,
no, I'm not dead anymore, and reality obliges.
I reject your reality and substitute my own,
says Croak. Doesn't other big fat guy hold up
the moon for a while? He doesn't hold it up,
but he destroys the largest fragments and redirects
them onto Lustria, so the rest of the world has
a few more years, basically. He also has Mazda
Mundi. Yeah, he has the saddest death. He tries
to crawl to the top of his own pyramid to feel
the sun on his face one more time and can't make
it. Why did you need to do that? What was the
point of that? I'm just sad now. Just let me
die, Walter. I'm just gonna die. Lizardmen are
the best at fighting chaos. Why would he sacrifice
the Lizardmen? Because the Skaven had overrun.
The reason he did it was to get a bunch of Skaven
killed because their wards were all focused on
demons, not rats. The demons are trying to get
in. They're the final defenders and they weren't
around for the final part. Unbelievable. That's
why they lost because they weren't there to do
the defend. This is an awesome Lord Croke model.
One of the... One of the Lizardmen should have
been one of the incarns of the magic. Give it
to Lord Croak, make him even more OP. Or Kropgar.
Yeah, I want to see Kropgar body some MFs. Like,
frick. With the mini, I do like the stonework.
I like the, like, this is a really little thing.
I like the little trees and the, like, growth
on the base of the model where there's, like,
you can tell it's a nice little bit. It contrasts
nicely with the more, like, ostentatious gilded
bits. Alien 3 on the right hand side there. Yeah.
Is the one beside him the fantasy version of
Lord Croak? I don't know. I like him. I like
that one a lot. They're very good. Nice. This
one's from Mini Acrylics. Damn. I didn't pick
this one for a change. That was me. You know
what? I like it. i i like both i like the paint
job and white being done well always impresses
me uh this is a very well done guy i thought
you'd appreciate that andy he's very well done
especially i love the lightning stripe honestly
i was gonna see the scribbly wibbly white leg
very very nice lines this is this is some good
stuff how do you guys do this this is really
yeah dude It takes me four hours to put black
paint on my Tau Fireworks and not get it on the
detailed parts. This is some king shit. Lovely
detail on the crotch bones and the relic. Where's
the safest place to hang this? Right here. It
is like, other than hiding the shmeet, it's like
perfectly done there. Like, what is it? Words.
The background of the key where it's dark in
there, it's not just solid gold, which I probably
would have left it as and just put Agrax Earthshade
in it or something. That is some good stuff.
Enjoyable. On the power fist. And this one's
a house pick, I believe. And there's several
of these, so I only picked three because there's
actually quite a few of these. St. Wagons. Yes.
He's gone for a, I think I might have seen, there's
a guy, someone on YouTube, is it Miniatures of
Heresy, Heresy Miniatures or something? He did
some similar stuff, but it's a really, I bet
on the tabletop, that looks really, really striking.
Very cool synth wave, Death Guard. Again, that's
not too crazy to do, but like, in a way like
as a whole unit he added in like a nice unifying
like sort of color that particularly on like
the blue highlights he's put them through like
bits of fire or bits like guts and teeth so it's
quite nice like just having something simple
and yet probably looks really good together and
yeah great job man um nice use of the airbrush
i think hell yeah So many variants as well. There's
so many. His mythic blight holder is very smooth.
Like a fire. It must be like UV paint, I think,
on some of these parts. Because if that's just
normal lighting, that's very smooth. Holy cow.
Look at the glow effect on that base. On all
these bases. What the heck? How do you do that?
How do you do that? I guess it's just spray.
Wizardry. That is UV paint. That is cool myself,
man. Thanks. It's not quite UV, but it's... Oh,
maybe it is. It's giving that vibe. That is the...
What's the guy called again? The Tally Man? Yeah.
Very cool. Nice. Nice stuff. Hell yeah, guys.
We also have a question of the week. And who
was it who was looking through last week's? Was
that Hal? I was looking through... Where am I?
Oh, yes. We had some from our last one. I don't
remember what our last question of the week was.
I don't remember what it was. It was hashtag
usurper. I don't remember the exact question,
annoyingly, though. What was our episode on?
I'll go check very quickly. It was for our...
Come on, internet. Love you guys. It was for
our... Could the Grey Knights actually enact
the Terminus Decree? Does anyone remember off
the top of our head what that was? I think it
might have been how people would have... How
would you got him off the throne, basically.
How would you take out the Emperor, essentially.
The first one is by... At BenisDD, he says, hashtag
usurper, some elbow grease, a blunt instrument,
and a talisman of seven hammers, and I'm going
to hit like a very volatile gong. That I'm going
to hit like a very volatile gong. Crazy work
there. Elbow grease is hilarious. The next one
was by someone who had this episode. 27. Hashtag
usurper. I would reveal that he actually is Alpharius
on the Golden Throne, the real emperor having
left to get interdimensional smokes after leaving
Horus in charge of this great crusade. And then
his returned emperor must send out to learn about
and fix everything that has gone wrong since
he's been away. Literally, a guy's like, want
to buy some death sticks? And the Emperor's like,
you don't want to sell me death sticks. Throw
one out for cigarettes and milk. The next one
was by TheRamblingPainter1116. Hashtag usurper.
I would convince the custodians I've discovered
an STC that creates an item capable of fixing
anything in the universe and goes up to the throne
with a chainsaw and, in quotes, I soared... this
god in half and fixed it with only flex tape
and it doesn't work because it's not medical
grade wow they kind of did that in the hammer
and bolter episode where there's like a castellan
and a tech priest and they just find this thing
is like it can just repair the castellan completely
even though it's been hacked to death by an orc
and then it's like don't worry i'm sure there's
another one on the planet so what do you mean
there's another one of those on the what do you
mean That seems really important. What does he
mean by this? The next one is by a resident law
criminal, Mr. Biggest Squiggin4482. Hashtag usurper.
I would team up with Jeremy the G -Skiller Neophyte.
He'd solo Captain Archeon, Chiron, and the rest
of their force. Jeremy's the only one who can
duel the Emperor and win. Jeremy the Genestealer
Neophyte. The hero. Who's a... Who's a... Gazkul's
little friend again. Oh, Nakari. Nakari. That
is the only person I would send to go kill him.
Just a random... If he rolls a six into a six,
he's fine. I'm still waiting for a Macari and
Red Gobbo buddy cop movie, because that'd be
fun. It's like teaming up. And we have a... We
need a question of the week this week, guys.
And it's hashtag end times, I believe. Yes, which
is... We spent a whole episode fixing the end
times. You guys need to help us. Yeah, how would
you fix the end times? And it can be a wacky
answer. Give us some ideas. Yeah, it could be
that, you know... Archeon just ends up committing
seppuku and they have to wait five seasons until
the next one. I just drop in Kato Sicarius and
it'll work out fine. Done. Him or Malum Kaido,
you're done. Easy. Archeon dies and then the
next one, who I'd affectionately named Oppenheimer,
ends up discovering a new method on competing
the end times. Have we done Warhammer versus
Warhammer? Like a Space Marine chapter gets put
on Warhammer Fantasy. What happens? That was
almost this episode, to be fair. Yeah. Maybe
we can do that in the future. But before we end,
I suppose we should go through the last of the
donations for the day. To start us off, we got
Sigman7077. 777 for five. Colin, I reread Giant
Slayer recently. Why have you never mentioned
the pleasure slaves at the High Elves ship to
Ulfwan? They have a slaves. That probably wasn't
willing. Damn. Don't worry about it. Don't worry
about it. All the way. Green hat in five weeks.
Same with two. I and all three fans wish AOS
lore impacted Underworld. Yeah, man. Hey, maybe
when you get a fourth fan for Underworld, finally
it'll have some impact. I just realised Ulthuan
is like the island. If you know what I mean.
Okay. What do you mean just now? What? No, but
as in, it's the island and then the Ulthuan files.
Oh, god damn it. Redacted. In coming back up,
thank you for the 30 shekels. No need to fix
what's already perfect, but seriously, fix it.
The end times is kind of hard because it was
inevitably change AOS unless you go fully alternate
timeline -wise. I feel like it could be done.
I think you could keep it mostly the same. There's
a lot of shit writing you can trim. Yeah. Just
might as well that old internet meme of this
is the ultimate showdown. The most innocuous
character would be the one who makes it through
to the end. How? How did you do this? Sheesh.
A big one here from Pyre. Do you want to read
this one, Hal? Oh, thank you, man. For 20 bucks.
Jesus, thank you, man. Putting this towards an
eventual Yanari video from Colin, or you all
may be in this stream's style. Because the Horned
King's Riders from the Chronicles of Prydain?
are still a cool idea. God, what they could have
been. I don't want to read those books, though.
I don't want to read the Inari books. They're
bad. But we will someday, I guess. Eli, do you
want to read this other large one? Thank you
very much for 20. Nice lizard PFP. You boys are
the reason I have a Skaven army. Nice. I have
over 120 clan rats painted. Funny as it is, when
I rock up to a table to play, love your work,
keep it up. That's crazy. I can never paint 120.
Yeah, what's your carry case, bro? What's your
method? A container, probably. How do you carry
that? Extra medium for five. How slash Andy.
Glad to see you've recovered from the yellow
fever slash shark bites you got from Colleen's
road trip. Explain. We were on a road trip. What
does he mean by this? Colin did not bite us.
We weren't on a road trip. Last time we were...
I was out of town. Yeah, unless you're confusing
me with Crackduck and Hal with someone, Millbell
maybe. Yellow Fever. I don't think anyone got
Yellow Fever or Shark Bites. I got Scarlet Fever
last year. That was fun. Who wants this one?
at the threshold. God, I really struggled. Seth
Reynolds? Seth Reynolds, yeah. Seth is my told.
I can't read words well. 10 Australian. Thanks,
man. First time listening live. Tune in and Colin's
alarm is blaring and he's gone white hot rant
about the end times and Manbrick. Classic. Thank
you for tuning in. I imagine it's early out there.
Prime1Jr, thank you for the $5. Maybe the real
end times was the favorite characters who died
bullshit deaths along the way. That is UW writing.
That is the real end times. And the last one.
Jay Townsend. Oh, sure. Oh, there's more lore.
So thank you for the 10 Australians. So in keeping
up with the Australia lore, I just went onto
a customer's property with a co -worker. I was
like, oh, that's a big dog curled up on her porch.
Turns out it was a big -ass kangaroo. Wild country.
What a wild place. Yeah. Well, we hope you all
enjoyed our tackling of the end times and a bit
of a departure from the... your 40k stuff uh
because as we all know colin loves space marine
law so we'll be sure to get back to that um but
yeah let us know what you how you would tackle
the end times with hashtag end time in the chat
and other than that i guess we'll all see you
guys later bye