Theoretical. I think I should give Eli a kiss
on the forehead. Practical. He'll like it. He's
busy still re -crusading around a little bit,
making sure the Empire is going well. He's the
greatest paradox game player of all time. That's
the real reason he privately was the one they'd
like, maybe Horace should have won. He heard
skibbity riz, he's like, yeah, oh yeah, it's
over. My leg has been up for six, seven years.
Six, seven. Six, seven. Hello, ladies and gentlemen,
boys and girls, welcome back to Lore Crimes,
and it's almost Christmas. Merry, merry Christmas.
Merry Christmas, boys. Merry Christmas. We're
so excited, and thank you. Before we ramble into
the episode like we always do, welcome everybody.
Today we're talking about the bestest boys, the
poster boys, perhaps the most succulent men.
I don't know where I'm going with this. I'm talking
about Ultraman's guys. I don't know where this
is ending. Colin's already oiled up and ready
to go. Of course. We want to talk to you guys
about not just the Ultramarines, but maybe things
in the lore that not everybody knows because
a lot of people know about Ultramarines. It just
happens. That's the thing. Ultramarines, everybody
knows about them. They're on the box art. They're
on everything. They have the amazing posters,
all that cool stuff. But let's learn about things
that make them actually cool. But to be fair,
we need to start with the basics. I do think,
Colin, you should take it away because we do
have, you know, maybe not everyone is fully aware
of Ultramarines because it would be crazy, but
for the fantasy people who are initiated. If
you've been living in a rock for the past, you
know, 30 years of Games Workshop history and
you miss this minor unknown group of Space Marines.
Or you've played any video game ever. It's like,
who's on the Space Marine 2 cover? Ultramarines.
Who's in the new Dawn of Fortune? And the Space
Marine 1 cover. Oh, who was in this? Blood Ravens.
That's the one off you get. Who's the singular
named character we saw in the Total War 40K trailer?
Marnius Calgar. Who's Eli's favorite chap? chapter
hands down i like the automobiles look i can't
i can't help it if you know there can only be
one greatest of them all i think that that'll
be the foreword of this of this episode well
point out before before people do want to address
it colin is currently getting something under
the desk which is he's having his house painted
so before anyone's like what's that weird stuff
you know don't worry about it colin's getting
a little bit of help under the desk it's all
good crazy We pay people for this stuff. We pay
people for this. When I click on our live on
my PC, it takes me to the mobile, and when I
click on the live on my phone, it takes me to
the regular live. I think your stuff is just
whack, dude. Do you want us to give a basic rendition
of Ultramarines, or do you have something prepared
that you want us to go into? I've got something
light prepared, right? this this is something
everyone everything has to have a template right
uh you know if you want to make you need to make
a standard before you can before you can start
mixing things up you got to have the basics down
like you know before you can start subverting
expectations you you got to meet them right you
got to have a grasp of the basics And while in
-universe, yes, the Dark Angels were the first,
the Space Marine, I feel outside of universe
it is only becoming more and more clear, and
even in -universe as the time ticked onward,
that the Ultramarines, they are that basic. They
are the standard line of Space Marine. You can
have... A lot of chapters have their own cultures.
A lot of things are, you know, have more unique
things. I should say more unique, but they have
like pretty varied things about them. But when
you're looking at a space Marine chapter, more
often than not, you are going to find they are
ultra Marines, but X, not always with, you know,
the big name, the one. But do you think they're
more like, I would take them as a, when we say
like basic, I think we mean more like Swiss army
knife in a sense. Yeah. You know, basically it's
not necessarily boring. These are the, these
are the fellas. You know, the fact that I'm getting
some under the table didn't help either. I like
the fact that it's just like Colin said there,
oh, they're doing some painting, but I'm just
imagining just a whole room full of miniatures
and they're just there like, just priming them
all, like hundreds upon hundreds. I think, to
be fair, we should say like, as much as there
are parts that people do know about Ultramarines,
many of the chapters in the Imperium, you have
to put in the context of like 10 ,000, there's
been 10 ,000 years of Imperial history. So people
like the Ultramarines have, it's quite amazing
that they almost have kept to, what we'll go
into later, which is like a Codex Astartes template.
Colin will explain more about that in a bit.
But many of the chapters, like just to give it
context for this actual episode, many of the
chapters and many other places in the Imperium,
after 10 ,000 years, you're going to like, you
know, culture changes within like a decade almost.
So you can imagine like, it's amazing that the
Ultramarines in some sense have a continuation
of a culture that has lasted 10 ,000 years. And
it's almost recognizable even to someone who
has 30. 31st millennium perspective though which
i find quite cool i do they're the only one who
have like hey we have an entire micro empire
just for ourselves like oh that's kind of fancy
i want an empire i want a micro empire i wish
i could just own that i think so yeah but with
ultra with ultra myself in general i mean with
it being you know it's space marines and we're
talking about the most like standard template
of space marines i think a lot of people maybe
don't understand like the general sense of like
it's because there's so much variation in warhammer
law it is unique in a sense to have this established
culture where it's a formation of like 10 000
years of like isolated and it stayed quite close
to their traditions of i mean it's not hard to
explain which is like It is very Roman Empire.
I ask if people, I mean, I don't know what era
of Rome maybe we would highlight too, but I think
it's very, you know, maybe not, obviously, I
hope most people do maybe catch on to this if
they didn't know about Warhammer lore yet, but
the writers are very clearly based on Ultramarines
off of Roman Empire and Roman history, which
Colin does have a history degree on, so he can
explain a lot more about that though. But they
are pretty, I like their iconography. I like
their stuff. I don't know if... ultra itself
is obviously a greek symbol but um i guess maybe
not everyone knew that but there's a cool part
which is that you know space like ultramarines
in general they are again like imagine caesar
itself is almost like a continuation of what
like roman ideals republic although they do have
the imperium of man which obviously is a empire
imperium so go and wait for the day then ultramarines
in battle and instead of shouting something about
get him he's like for the republic it's like
hang on That's not yours. Put that back. Hang
on a minute. That's something. I'll be right.
Oh, no. But I think poor painters. I'm wondering
how, while the spray and pray is going on at
college. It's a vacuum. Yeah, yeah. But I'm pretty
sure, Colin, you said, oh, you might need some
like. assistance with the horus heresy ultramarine
stuff do you want me and hal to maybe just like
talk about that for a little bit give you a bit
of a bit of time for them to give it some cool
downtime if you'd like yeah do you want to take
away andy do you want to begin with uh all right
well maybe some maybe some pizza parts that not
everyone will know because ultramarine is pretty
light in the horus heresy they're not like the
main feature yeah i mean i mean Long story short,
even during the Horus Heresy, they were the biggest
legion. They had like a quarter of a million
Astartes. They also were spared from the Siege
of Terra. They didn't do much fighting compared
to other legions during the actual heresy itself
because they were specifically taken very far
away from the conflict in order to not get the
biggest legion involved. And so they also were
kind of the... the default inheritors of the
Imperium as we know it. Even going through the
new Ashes of the Imperium book, one of the big
arcs of that book is about how they weren't here
to defend Terra, and all of a sudden, they're
the ones who are not only bringing order, but
they're bringing food supplies and rations and
water and infrastructure. And it's like, yeah,
these guys aren't just soldiers. They're diplomats.
They are... They are senators and politicians.
They are administrators. They do the whole nine
yards in that regard. And so they're very, even
though it's not the most like exciting or the
sexiest thing to be like, I'm really good at
admin. It's like, yeah, but it is important.
We do need accountants and other things like
that. But during the - I have a - We'll go for
it. I'll say, Andy, do you recall, because this
is a part of people, if they look at like box
art and current things at the moment, they might
obviously see like, you know, like particularly
sergeants as well. They have red helmets as well,
but I don't know if you want to specifically
tell, because this is actually a piece of like,
it's actually heresy law, how this originates
into what would be then copied into other legionaries,
like, or what was when they were legions into
chapters as well, because it's not, it's technically
current law, but do you remember the story of
why, because in the originally as a legion. They
didn't have like different colored like helms
necessarily in other sort of formations, particularly
what would be like a chapter formation later.
It was no obvious saying like, you know, sergeants
have different colored helmets or anything like
that. Do you remember the story of how the ultramarines
got the red helmet, the iconic sergeant one?
weirdly enough there is a thing in common with
the ultramarines and night lords in that for
a while they used uh red markings on different
parts of their armor as like a kind of a form
of censure so while cevatarian had red gauntlets
which was like your death marked your life belongs
to the primarch um With the original Ultramarines
Legion, if you had red on your helmet, it was
a mark of censure that you were going to be,
you know, answering for a crime or some such.
And there was a sergeant called Eonid Teal, and
he was like, hey, we've conquered the known galaxy.
We're all good about, like, you know, preparing
for the unexpected. We like to make, like, thought
games about what might happen in the future.
And they have that whole thing of, what's it,
something practical, theoretical practical. theoretical
um i think i should give eli a kiss on the forehead
practical he'll like it like okay so like it's
that kind of you know here's your here's your
uh here's your what would you go not supposition
and here's the yeah yeah yeah and so a and it
was sanctioned uh censured for basically saying
i think we should look into fighting space marines
because we're the only ones left like We know
how to fight Eldar and orcs and all that, but
we need to know how to fight space marines. Which
is crazy that that came from an ultramarine,
considering all the other temperaments of other
chapters and legions in the future. It came from
a goody boy ultramarine. And this is before the
heresy. So they're like, that's blasphemy. We're
going to arrest you and put you on trial for
that. And also Field is like a bit of a weirdo,
even for the Ultramarines, where like, if you
look at any of his art, he has all these like
white chalk scribblings all over his armor. And
it's like, he's always jotting things down and
taking notes and being like, that's a good idea.
Let me just put it here so I don't forget. And
he basically was the one who's like, we need
to learn how to fight. space marines he was on
the ship the mccraggs honor when it was infested
by demons during the uh no no fear book i believe
it was and he's basically in gilliman's like
personal chambers waiting for the primark to
cast judgment on him and then demons invade the
ship and he starts looking at his armory and
goes like that looks useful i'm just gonna borrow
this and then and then he leads like a ragtag
group of like void crewmen and mutants and like
just just naval officers and he gives them all
the weapons of the primarchs and they're like
they shouldn't have what who are these guys and
they're like yeah we've got to fight demons now
that arrest is going to have to wait and because
he was so instrumental in thinking outside the
box now sergeants of the uh the chapter as it
stands today have red helmets to mark that they
are a sergeant as a as a reference to and there
are other colors like my character here he's
got a white helmet that's for veterans you do
have um like little adornments like laurel reefs
which are very fitting for the ultramarines but
like ultramarines are also the most sticklers
for the rules they are literally the most codex
compliant chapter there is so they are very picky
about this is where this goes and this is the
pauldron trim you have and this is what your
helmet color means and everyone follows suit
from what they do and it mainly originates from
a and a teal so yeah i have a i have a fun part
just before we uh let colin rip which is because
of it no because it's um again we're inspired
by like roman republic s like s like history
and things and the primarch robute gilliman is
known to be a man of peace slash man who would
uh invest in like gilliman makes empires you
know and way to make empires is you often make
peace with your enemy which is something he learned
after the murder of his father, Conor Gilliman,
who was a mortal man, which is even in the heresy
to what is to like the modern day of, you know,
the modern 42nd millennium of essentially Ultramarine
and McCraggy and like law, they have the problem
called the Illyrian quarter, which I need to
make sure Colin is a reference to maybe the Illyrians
who roam. I mean, it's just the same name. That's
what I assume. It is a reference to it. It's
a cool thing because not everyone will know that,
but it's a reference to history in which essentially
the Illyrians, I might be talking about my ass
here, but the Illyrians are essentially a tribe
in what is modern day Italy and they were rivals
of Rome until they were eventually subsumed into
Rome. A lot of them were Balkans too, like right
across the sea. And essentially the Illyrian
quarter is a problem throughout the heresy of
the Ultramarines and even every time there's
like a bit of like heresy that pops up during
like the 42nd millennium or all throughout mccragg's
history it's coming from the illyrian quarter
because the ultramarines themselves learn like
they make in some sense they make peace with
their enemies and therefore it's always a problem
for ultramarines because where other legions
were just like you know we'd eliminate the problem
you know annihilate the whole thing quite slightly
clean ultramarines are more willing to talk which
means You make peace with enemies who therefore
keep hatred going for a long time. That's a cool
detail about the heresy era, which is still continuing
on. This sounds a lot like Eldar Apologia to
me. Is that why they started with the Inari?
We just want to be friends with the Inari. It's
not because there's a hot lady in charge. Oh,
I see. I see. 40k fan take. Not killing people
at random is good. But to be fair, as we say,
from what is the earlier 31st millennium when
there was the rise of mccragg with gilliman to
the 42nd millennium the ultra marines are essentially
a bulwark against the bastion in the you know
modern times they are marines who will appear
in most conflicts because they are the they are
the symbol and the reason colin will explain
like they are a template and i'll let colin rip
because there's a reason why the ultra marines
are the template to so many other chapters and
essentially even other space marines throughout
the entire well, for Second Millennium to Horus
Heresy. Indeed. But as with all, you know, we'll
start with all Space Marines, right? All of them
kind of have the same origin. If you ever talk
about Space Marines, you kind of, you always
go back to that point one, right? Big E in his
lab doing some science. He had, you know, already
made the Custodes, which they're the Custodes.
They're kind of, you know, the top of the game
for super soldiers, but a little too expensive
to make that your whole army, right? That's a...
That's a lot of points on the table, boys. Yeah,
man, that's not constant. That shouldn't be an
army, according to Eli. Mm -hmm, it should not
be. Get him out of here. And, you know, he also
had the Thunder Warriors. You know, they're stronger
than Space Marines. They're more, you know, good
in a fight. They're not great soldiers. You know,
they're a little bit too much loose cannons,
and their genes also might not be the most stable
things on the planet. So... You know, they were
a tool and, you know, they did their task well.
It's time to move on, right? So he makes the
Space Marines and the 13th Legion, of course,
would become the Ultramarines. Although now,
at this point, they're still the Warborn they're
known as. Because they were taken from the kind
of all -over terror in the Unification Wars.
They didn't really participate in the Unification
Wars. They were kind of cooked up at the end.
But they were taken from realms that were very,
like, shattered. Like, you know, raised to the
ground. Not quite destroyed, though, you know.
Do you wonder, this is a reference to, because
again, I think it maybe links to someone cooking
a bit with Roman history here, where many of
the Roman legions essentially were formed of,
like, I was about to say donations. That's not
the same thing. They took in, many of their forces
are formed of Germanic tribes slash people from
all across the empire. to then be formed into
Roman legions that would then go and fight in
various places. I don't know if it's like a little
subtle nod, do you think, Colin? Could be a reference
to that, but it also could be the other standard
Roman practice of you may join us or we're going
to burn down your home and whoever's left will
join us. Ah, that one. It could also be that
one, the nice subtle practice of we'll be nice
the first diplomat. And then, you know, the second
one is going to be, you will be joining no matter
what. So it could also be a little bit of that.
Um, you know, so we get the war born their first,
uh, their first major battle is, uh, they were,
they were actually part of the great crusade
early on, uh, because, you know, uh, you got
to start great crusade starts with Luna, uh,
take back the moon and they, uh, they performed
it. They performed well there. Uh, they did.
So they did good work and, uh, you know, their
gene seed was noted, uh, early on, even this
early on, to be remarkably stable and adaptable.
It rarely goes wrong, which in comparison to
some other legions, that's a pretty nice feature.
There is a part of the lore where I think, because
not everyone would have read this, but I think
it's in a Korax book where Gilliman has a conversation
with Korax. I don't know if it is Korax, you
might have to correct me, Andy, but it was someone
saying how they were worried because the gene
seed that was implanted in their sons was not
super stable. And then Gilliman actually answers
back like, hey, not everyone, like sometimes
men just simply die, even with my seed, which
is hilarious. And even during the Horus Heresy,
there were a couple of ultramarine traitors.
We don't talk about that. You know, it does happen.
But with that being said, by the standards of
everything, it is still very stable. And a lot
of that, at least how I've always read it, it's
not that the gene seed wasn't stable. You were
not quite making the cut to be a space marine.
Because not everyone handles it. Sort of an inherent
problem with it. Sometimes it just... It just
doesn't take, and if it doesn't take, you're
kind of just going to die. Shout out to our Ragnar
Blackmane episode we did, where in the Ragnar
Blackmane lore, there's a guy sitting at a table,
and he just goes, and he just dies, because the
GC doesn't take. He literally just dies at the
table, and he just slumps over, and they just
shush him away. Yeah. But with that, there are...
They're stable. They're ready to go. The Warborn
are, you know, ready to go. They take place in
the first major battle, the Great Crusade, you
know, that Ad Luna. So they were going from the
start. They came out swinging. And as all the
other legions do, the Emperor gave him a temporary
commander while he's looking for his kids and
sent them forth. So, yeah, they did fairly well.
uh you know they had a even before gilman they
had quite the uh long string of victories oh
i was looking i was looking at that boss fight
i was ready for it to have a sliver of health
and then go back into cocoon mode i was really
knowing that when it was like i had a distance
modifier so your weapons were weak at a certain
distance like this is really annoying i hate
that one so much uh but there were a few a few
quirks even this early on it was noted like they
They quite like discipline. They quite like making
a phalanx, the Ultramarines. And, you know, for
the Roman stuff, you know, you had the disciplined
Roman legions. Even before they were the Ultramarines,
they were very much all about forming a plan,
sticking to it. Everyone's doing their part.
You're this part of the machine. I'm that part.
Let's execute the battle plan. Even before we
got, you know, Mr. Theoretical Practical. They
were kind of already about that. A little bit
less so. I had a fun theory slash I believe this
is true, which is the only reason you ever have
formations like Phalanxes and they had Stormshield
War in the Horus Heresy is because they actually
had enough Astartes to form it, whereas in the
42nd millennium when they're just chapters, that
formation is no longer viable anymore. Could
be, yeah. Plus, it's a lot harder to make all
that equipment. come the 41st millennium. And
Gilliman was also a big fan of taking stuff from
other legions he liked. You mentioned Korax.
First time he saw a Moratat, where they have
the dual -wielding pistols. He was like, those
guys are mental. I like them. Let's put them
in my legion. Why not? Give it a bash. Yeah.
They were, even early on, pretty damn adaptable,
right? There was one big hiccup known as the...
Osiris Rebellion or Osirian Rebellion where some
very powerful psychic xenos with some pretty
strangely described like clock chips caused the
up to that point the single greatest loss of
space marine life and the ultramarines had to
briefly pull back before they could come back
with a greater force but aside from that that
was you know that was more of a some teeth not
even teething troubles this was just a unexpected
massive problem out of nowhere uh this wasn't
you know a flaw or anything it's just something
you know win every battle uh with that though
this did uh this did leave a bit of a mark of
shame on them as it were because as you reading
the horse heresy and other stuff sometimes gilliman
has a hell of a temper i think a lot of them
do because they they're like more the primarchs
are more perpetual when they're more petulant
sorry when they're younger because in some way
they never like they're human but they don't
grow out of it do you know what i mean they're
not yeah old like they're not tempered by the
wisdom such as the emperor and there's like all
their emotions are like dialed to 11 there's
even in the new masters the imperium it's like
yeah they were never going to be great rulers
outside of conflict because they're just they're
not built like that even if they're like very
adept at like whatever they specialize in there's
just their their kind of soul rages so fiery
that they always have bouts of, like, intense
emotion. And it's just part of their DNA. What
was the Emperor going to do to them Primarchs
after the Great Crusade? He's going to give them
a vineyard. I mean, we don't want to, like, because
that's more of an Emperor episode, but, like,
technically they were supposed to be raised on
terrorists. Like, even with, that's the cool
bit, like, Gilliman technically had, like, a
little, like, beneath the Imperial Palace, there's,
like, a little, it's not a monument, but they
had, like, little temple areas. And there's a
little one where like all the Primarchs had their
own little private housing where they were going
to be raised on terror. And Gilliman probably
had one filled with lots of scrolls and lots
of interesting stuff. But it's like Gilliman
was, you know, they're all meant to be guided
by the Emperor because they weren't. And obviously
that led to all the troubles of the Horus heresy.
And although despite Gilliman, I would say grew
up relatively similar to what the Emperor probably
imagined for him though. He had good parents.
Yeah, mostly the Primarchs, not so much though.
No, I would say like, yeah, they're pretty much,
even as we get to where they are in like the,
well, Great Crusade era, the Legion itself is,
I think like a lot of them, without their Primarchs,
they're really undisciplined in the sense of
like their temperaments because they're more
willing, like even I think of the Blood Angels
one, they're more willing to fall to like...
I guess, bouts of like, you know, not like rage,
but they're willing to be more bloodthirsty,
more like kind of what the Thunder Warriors were.
I guess even to the Ultramarines, they needed
like the temperament of their Primarch. And then,
I mean, I don't know if you know, you guys maybe
agree though, but the other ones, especially
as well, maybe some of them accelerated their
temperaments a lot more, but the 13th Legion
were lucky enough to be like, they would acquire
someone like Robute Gilliman, who then grew up
on the crag. So where were we? We were, you know,
the great crusading around. They're doing their
thing. You know, some losses here and there.
A little bit of a psychological shame on that
whole Osirian -Cybird problem. Super powerful
psychic Xenos kind of kicked them in the balls.
But other than that, they're mostly good. And
one day, Big E gets word that... On the planet
of Ultramar. No, the realm of Makrag. The planet
of Makrag in the realm of Ultramar growing. You
got it. You got it in the end. We figured it
out. He hears word of the son of a man named
Connor who just seems to be just all around fucking
phenomenal. This guy's kid is just taking names.
He's doing good work. because the emperor's ego
is apparently so high he hears about how some
dude's kid is doing well and he's clearly like
well this must be a prime arc which you know
he's right but also cool your jets there bud
other people can do cool things his furniture
was enormous and he's like oh that's it yeah
maybe yeah you just saw a picture of like the
the couch from mccrack he's like that that's
i know there's only one person that could have
that Can I speak about my favourite Gilliman
law ever? He has a room which is all the furniture
is Primark sized. Which is amazing because then
when normal humans go into it they look like
tiny little kids. Which I love that bit of law.
But yeah, Gilliman does have Primark sized furniture
in his own personal holdings. I'd say that's
pretty reasonable. I think Korax is the one who's
surprised by it. He doesn't ever have Primarch.
He hits his head on doors. He's a raven or whatever,
but Gilliman actually has Primarch -sized rooms,
which is enormous. So, amazing lore. Amazing.
Thank you, Games Workshop. Yeah, so they'd also...
Oh, what other thing? Much like the Romans would
do, they... What is it? Whenever they conquered
a world, they had no qualms about using, like,
the inhabitants of that world to boost their
numbers again. There was no, like, only Terrans
or only, you know, when they find the Primarch,
only from the Primarch home. They're like, nah,
you want to join the Ultramarines? All right,
sick. Here's some gene seed. Here's some power
armor. Let's go. Another quite Roman thing of
them. If you're willing to fight for the Empire,
they'll have you. So. yeah uh they uh they had
refused any glories and you know awards ever
since that osiris rebellion thing but they find
gilliman good news freak warp storm blows everyone
off course for five years which it's i always
i that that i find so funny it's like he's right
there we know where he is he's right there we
just can't reach him uh but you know it only
lasts for five years which uh Isn't even, you
know, that's not all too long to begin with.
And 40K timescales, five years is a rounding
error. Don't even worry about it. And eventually
they find good old Gilliman, who this isn't,
you know, it's not his episode, but you kind
of have to talk about their Primarch when you
bring them space Marines, especially a Legion.
So Gilliman had landed on the planet of Macrog.
It wasn't the best place in the world, but it
was pretty good, especially compared to a lot
of places in the Age of Strife. It had other
worlds in its system it was able to keep in contact
with. They actually had some, at least, it doesn't
say it explicitly, but the way they're described
is like little short burst jump like FTL ships
they kind of have, which makes me think of like
the Tau FTL, where it's just kind of skimming
the warp, so it's still okay to use. It's very
slow compared to other warp travel, but you can
use it in a pinch in a warp storm. So Macrog
was able to, its industry, its society, relatively
intact, made it through all the Age of Strife,
as did some of the worlds around it. No doubt
helped with morale as well, knowing they weren't
completely alone in the universe. So maybe landed
on a pretty all right planet. Mostly ruled by
the ruling government of Macrog. With the exception,
of course, Hal, there's those Illyrians in one
of the northern regions of Ultramar. Still a
pesky problem. This is where Gilliman lands.
He's found and adopted by Connor Gilliman and
also raised by Gillimam Tarashayutan. Was she
as well? Because this is a detail I wasn't sure
of. Is she actually Konal's wife or was she almost
like his, you know, in the term of nobility,
like a mistress or something? I don't remember
if she's actually his wife. Like Seneschal? Like
she's like... kind of an underling, but the way
I've always understood it, like they're not married,
but they both like raise them as like, you know,
here's mom, here's dad. And she's a bit younger
than him. Yeah. Yeah. But yes, we have, we have
the Primark with the, with the, the nuclear family.
Good for him. Connor, you know, and Tarasha,
they both do all they can to impart the wisdom,
you know, how to be a good person, how to be.
good ruler, efficient, all this stuff. And Gilliman
takes to it quite well, as most of the Primarchs
do with whatever their homeworld's shtick is.
Gilliman, at one point, is sent off to go deal
with those Danalirians, which he managed to do
fairly peacefully. He brings things, it's a campaign,
but he does bring them into compliance without
unmaking them. Good for him. When he comes back
home... uh mcrog's a little bit on fire uh at
this point it was the roman republic uh led by
two consuls and of course the senate connor was
one of the consuls another felony was a oh god
and someone chime in i can't believe i'm forgetting
his name is it gallon no not gallon oh galen
maybe galen is the name escaping me but he's
essentially the equal to what is he's yeah it's
you know these have um these have like two caesars
didn't they in yeah they had you know two consoles
one for military one for you know domestic uh
it's kind of that's what this is uh the the other
one decided that uh connor was trying to make
ultramar crog a lot more like meritocratic like
earn your place don't just you know inherit noble
titles and uh coast for the rest of time He was
trying to get, he was trying to make things a
lot more, you know, fair play. The other guy
was not a fan of that. So we had him killed.
And when Gilman comes back, he makes it just
in time to see his dad die in his arms. Gilman
though, he had been raised well. So he does not,
he defers their fate, you know, Connor and any
traitors allies to the Senate. He is not going
to be a tyrant. He's going to do this by the
books. Because otherwise, the other option to
him is anarchy. So he's going to do this effectively,
efficiently, as it is by the books. And Connor,
the other guy, is still executed. The Senate
still, you know, chucks him off a cliff. And
he goes to work putting his father's dream into
place and makes Macrog just a little jewel of
the Eastern galaxy. And even starts beginning
more and more worlds are being annexed into it
as the warp storms are passing a bit. I had a
question here, which is, is this where the 500
worlds in McCrack is established? Or is this
they are rebuilding to the level of the 500 worlds
that were once unified before? This is where
they're establishing. Yeah. So they're getting
up to that 500 worlds. Gilman's on his way to
doing it once the Emperor shows up, which sure
enough, Big E shows up. Gilman. It's a nice,
short, little, pleasant affair. And he joins
the Imperium, takes command of the Warborn, renames
them to the Ultramarines, of course. And Ultramar
is established. We get to that 500 worlds. And
it's time to Great Crusade some more. And it
should be noted that I imagine a big part of
the reason why the Ultramarines become the largest
space marine chapter. most generally well -equipped,
even when they take heavy losses, is because
Gilliman can throw 500 planets worth of industry
behind their back. There's a cool detail I like,
which I don't... Again, maybe not everyone knows,
which is because Gilliman had actual parents,
he doesn't really consider the Emperor like his
father. He's not... He may have been your father,
but I'm your dad. Konor was all... Connor or
Connor? I can't remember the pronunciation. I
say Connor, but it's pretty good. Connor said,
I'm Mary Poppins, y 'all. He considered Connor
his actual father, and even when he wants to
reflect on things, he has a little bust in marble
of Connor's face, and he often speaks to it as
seeking... He doesn't think of the emperor as
like, oh, what lessons do I learn from you? The
emperor is his commander, his emperor, actual
emperor, not just like... dad. It's complicated
to get them in, but he's lucky enough to be praised
by actual people, so he's a bit more normal.
Good for him. And with this, the Ultramarines
are let loose once more. Well, as the Ultramarines,
they're now let loose for the first time. They
had a another Roman thing, right? You know, the
Romans in some ways, legions were soldiers second,
engineers first. The roads followed them wherever
they lay. various, you know, towns and stuff
would crop up. Plenty of towns, I believe, I
mean, London, one of them starts as a Roman fort,
turns into a city. Sure enough, wherever the
ultramarines go, they make sure to leave the
world in, at least theoretically, a better place
than they found it, even if they had to tear
it down. And again, they're able to do this at
speed while still bringing more worlds into compliance
than anyone else, because they're using like
they're being smart brains yeah they're brains
like they're being smart with it we have we have
an entire realm of industry to pump into this
world we are going to give you one hell of a
stimulus check and then all the taxes will be
paid nice and on time you can join the imperium
it'll be good for you and then they move on to
the next one which uh and because again they're
good administrators they don't need to leave
the space marines in charge like uh mentioning
some uh word bearers who sit on the planet for
forever and preach. The Ultramarines are like,
hey, this... The Ultramarines are like, hey,
you were in charge of the world before. You seem
to have done a good job. Here's how we want you
to do things. Have at it. Or alternatively...
Whereas the Night Lords are like, oh, I made
a meat puppet. Lol. Yeah, thanks. That doesn't
help me to rule in a government. Thanks, I guess.
So yeah, the Ultramarines do that across the
galaxy. And like I said, they had the greatest
number of compliances than any other Legion through
both diplomacy and warfare. They could do the
carrot and the stick equally well. No doubt helping
this, Gilliman, as y 'all have said, more than
happy to take ideas from other Legions, and the
Ultramarines are more than happy to incorporate
them. Maybe they're not going to be as good as
stealth at the Raven guard, right? That's, that's
their whole thing. But you know, the ultra Marines
aren't going to go as stupid. That's dishonest.
That's dumb. That's lame. Okay. We will try and
adapt that as need be. We're not going to specialize
in it, but it's another tool in our arsenal that
they don't make their tactics, their personality,
basically like a whole lot of the other legions
do. I think that's more because each weapon,
each tactic is a tool to achieve victory rather
than this is, you know, like the Space Wars.
We all go in and fight headstrong because we're
trying to create a great story, you know, create
our song. The Ultramans are like, the victory
is more important, you know what I mean, than
the actual way we, you know, they're not willing
to like hurt civilians necessarily, but they're
very much like, you know, it's impractical. As
you know, theoretical and practical is often
their catchphrase. It's their little shtick.
Yeah, that's what it is. They're being reasonable
with conquering the galaxy. They will do whatever
they need to at the moment. Does that call for
stealth? Does that call for the big old phalanx
shield wall? Diplomacy? Either way, we're doing
it. That jump to midair also looked incredibly
cool. Yeah, amazing game. Hell yeah. So Gilliman,
they take revenge on those Assyrian cybirds,
brids, birds, one of those. Thank you, dyslexia.
I'm not dyslexic. You're fine, man. I'm just
dumb. That's all right. Thanks. They bring themselves
back to being on top again. They'll receive their
honors again. The shame has been erased. They're
doing great. There's some flaws. It's not perfectly
squeaky clean. Nusaria was a world they had some
influence over. They did not make Nusaria a nice
planet. They made the taxes efficient. They didn't
really make it not shit. Spread too thin, I think,
in the end. That could be, well, you know, if
you'd like my cope. Or, as I say, just the truth.
They only had so much time. Big E's pushing them,
even with all the Ultramar, you know, the realm
behind them, the 500 worlds. Big E always needs
more. So perhaps some worlds did not have the
time to get the attention they needed. But overall,
they're doing good work across the galaxy. Taxes
are running on time. Everything, all that stuff's
doing well. They also get themselves a little...
dog but they they also get themselves a little
bit of a boost from uh the legions which shall
not be named uh as them and then i believe the
imperial fists very likely had some of the legionnaires
left over from whatever happened with that just
taken into their legion uh no sense throwing
the baby out with the bath water and all that
right so the ultramarines get a boost from that
and come the ringed and xenocides they don't
participate but the dark angels do And when the
Dark Angels get whomped, now the Ultramarines
are the largest legion by quite a bit. So things
are coming up Ultramarine. They do spend a lot
of time, by the way, practicing, simulating fights,
even this early on. Shout out to the planet of
Prondium, which was a nice garden world until
the Ultramarines decided to host war games on
it. Then it was kind of a dump after they played
war games on it. But they repaired it. They're
spending even their off time making sure they're
the best soldiers. Like you said, Hal, it's about
winning the war. You've got to practice to make
sure, you know, be ready for any situation. And
Gilman performs his duties without much question.
He might have some private doubts every now and
again. But he's doing what he feels he has to,
or at least needs to. And... I'm guessing this
is when it's all about to go downhill. It might
be all about to go very downhill here, but right
before it begins going downhill, right at the
peak, that damn Lorgar, he's being way too damn
slow. Really got to stop calling me a god. The
Lorgar, he's not making... I'm not saying he's
wrong, but you got to stop saying the quiet part
out loud, Lorgar. This is not the time for such
ideology. So after, you know, a hundred odd years
of the Emperor saying, stop that, stop that,
stop that. He's now done saying, stop that. So
he calls on Malkador, Gilman, and the Ultramarines
to burn Monarchia to the ground. Lorgar's greatest
little city. Which they do. I will give the Ultramarines
some credit. They do evacuate the city. For anyone
willing to leave. Generational fumble. Can I
point out a slight bit of what people might not
think is probably very consistent with our Ultramarine
boys, because in that book, First Heretic, when
they evacuate the city because the Emperor is
like, oh, it's basically the cathedral city to
my worship. I hate it. Some people do throw a
couple of things at the ultramarines, and a few
of them just start blasting. So there's a few
casualties. Unless we said they're the good boys
so far. They are space marines. Don't test them.
The good boys of the Imperium. Yeah. Gilliman
does this again without hesitation. He follows
the Emperor's orders, but with some other officers
in his legion, he kind of privately confides
in them, like, I don't... I don't think that
was the right thing to do. I do not feel good
about this entire affair. Uh, which boy, is that
prophetic? Yeah. So, you know, the horse heresy
begins Gilman for, you know, the early on, he's
not too involved. Uh, he's not even too aware
of it. Uh, he's busy still great crusading around
a little bit and making sure the empire is going
well. He's the greatest paradox game player of
all time. He has Stellaris, but in real life
to be worrying about. So, and one day, you know,
he's like, he's finally like, I should really,
I should really do something about that whole
monarchy thing. I feel, I feel bad. Let's, let's
start with a small little sign of trust. He invites
Lorgar to go on a campaign where they'll, well,
they'll kill some orcs together, right? What
better brotherly bonding for a Primarch is there
than murdering some orcs, right? Come on now,
that's just class. Lorgar is Lorgar. They are
well in the chaos Kool -Aid by this point. And
Gilliman, in his sign of trust, trying to be
a cool dude, perfectly sets things up so the
word bearers are so intermingled with the Ultramarines.
This is going to be the ultimate brotherly, like,
you know, let's all feel good again. We can try
working together. And then Kalth, Lorgar, and
the word bearers just start firing into the ultramarine.
As the amazing comment someone said before on
a previous episode, Kalth was an act of self
-defense. That's right. That's right, it was.
Amazing comment. I don't buy a thing for the
chat and everyone listening. Could you please
type in your best theoretical and practical whilst
we're listening to this episode, or even in the
comments section? Because I would just love it
if people would be like, theoretical. Give him
the old... dick twist theoretical kalth was an
act of self -defense practical no the fuck it
wasn't throws throws we should point out throws
an entire ship at the the unsuspecting dock guards
of kalth immediately bursting thousands of ultramarines
into flames yeah and then on top of that you
know there was then the lower key uh violence
of an entire legion of space marines out of nowhere
opening fire on another one a little rough for
the ultramarines theoretical lorgar has betrayed
me practical my sons be dead oof so um yeah follow
-up practical i'm going to punch his skull off
yes and by god did he give it a good attempt
The Ultramarines and good old Aanid Thiel, as
I mentioned earlier, they're very much caught
off guard. But Aanid Thiel, funny enough, this
was what his whole thing was about. You never
know. What if we got to fight someone an awful
lot like Space Marines? Well, what are they doing
right now? So they rally as quick as they can.
They do give back. For the situation, the Ultramarines
punch back pretty hard. And with how the legions
were spread out at first, They did lose a third
of their Marines. I think it didn't look like
it was 100 ,000 just dead Smurfs. That's brutal.
Let's not pretend that. it could have been worse
in the battle of the abyss they were going to
use the abyss to destroy mccragg simultaneously
but luckily that got stopped like that would
have been that got stopped unfortunately that
book wasn't stopped but you know shout out to
um irrational sense who says theoretical calv
was an act of self -defense practical oh my god
he's punching my head off in space turns out
if you're angry enough you don't need a helmet
in space Theoretical, Eli loves his wife. Practical,
Eli hates his wife. What is his comedy? Insane.
Man loves his wife. Husband loves his wife. Crazy
headline. I would say all things considered,
given the circumstances, only a third of the
Ultramarines dying is quite impressive. As opposed
to everyone. Shadow Crusade. Indeed. So what
would follow for... uh, some amount of time was
two things for the Ultramarines. The Ruin Storm,
uh, or no, that, that little, that source of
the internet. Shadow Crusade first, yeah. The
Shadow Crusade, which was, uh, Gilliband, Tom,
and Jerry chasing around the Wordbearers and
World Eaters across Ultramar while Engron and
Lorgar are raising it to the ground. Uh, their
job is not to destroy Ultramar. That'd be great
if they could, but that was, uh, that's not the
job. The job is to tie up Gilliman and do not
let the Ultramarines anywhere near Terra. And
isolate, I think isolate the resources of Ultramar
particularly. Yeah, it's like this, this is,
this is an empire within an empire. We do not
need this mini realm joining the heresy. Keep
it busy, which on that front, Lorgar and Engron
do it astonishingly successfully. They keep Gilliman
quite occupied. It ends with the Ruin Storm.
Angron ascends to become a demon prince. Gilliman
tries to 1v2 Angron and Lorgar, and it goes about
as well as that sentence implies. He does whoop
Lorgar, but then Angron comes in and you're like,
oh no, it's the crazy guy. He has a habit of
doing that. For the brilliant tactician he's
supposed to be, whenever... Whenever there's
a big threat, his solution seems to be to throw
hands, which you can't fault him for leading
from the back. And to be fair as well, he's the
one who's fought the most Primarchs. I was going
to say, that's a good detail, yeah. But as the
lion says in his own Primarch novel, there's
only one reason why Gilliman is not the best
duelist of all the Primarchs. It's because Gilliman
is the master of all, and yet he's the greatest
of everything, and he's not the master of one
thing. And the lion speaks about, like, if Gilliman
had dedicated the time, he could be as good as
the lion in dueling and close combat fighting.
But because he's so good at everything else,
he doesn't focus on one thing. That's not him
and his legion's thing. They're like, we could
be the best duelists ever, but then other things
will suffer for it. I could be a Grandmaster
at Tekken, but I like playing Age of Empires,
damn it. I will do my RTSs. Indeed. I think the
analogy I think of, he could be a kitchen knife,
but he's a Swiss Army knife. It's not the best
kitchen knife. It's a good kitchen knife, though.
Yeah, it's all right. All right, settle down.
I think it's the best kitchen knife. All right,
keep it in your pants. Nope, it's coming out.
It's coming out. He's going to get his cock out.
He's going to get his cock out. So it's rough
for the Ultramarines and Ultramar. I mean, I
think they burned down 100 worlds, which if my
math is correct, that's a fifth of Ultramar just
raised, right? It's going to put a dent in the
GDP. It culminates in the Ruin Storm being created,
Ultramar being cut off from the rest of the galaxy.
The Blood Angels and Dark Angels are here now.
That's something. That's something good. So I'm
not good. Conrad Kurz is here, too. And that
Illyria region, never quite fully bought in.
So part of the reason he was able to hide is
he was probably doing the Batman thing, right?
Where you turn around, Conrad Kurz is gone. Probably
took a bit of your skin with him on the way out,
and he didn't notice. He was also being sheltered,
though, by some of the Illyrians. He was like,
hey. You don't like Ultramar? I'm not a fan.
You want to do something? So he was starting,
like, rebellion and whatnot the whole time. They
were hiding him, which worked fairly well until
the Lion decided that Illyria would be target
practice in order to burn Conrad Kurz out, which
Gilman wasn't happy with, and the Ultramarines
probably weren't happy with either. But Lion's
gonna Lion. This all eventually culminates in
both the Imperium Secundus, where Gilliman decides,
I have no idea if there is an Imperium out there.
I'm going to act as if there isn't and try and
become a little realm of stability. Where once
again, the glazing will not stop. Horace himself
said, I don't know if we tried to bulldoze through
all those worlds. I don't know if we could do
it if we gave Gilliman time to prepare. So Gilliman
is acting on the... I will say, given the circumstances,
a reasonable assumption. I can't get out. I don't
know if there's anything to get out to. I'm going
to do what I can here. You get words, you know,
through some Sanguinius psychic stuff and just
other ways that there is an Imperium out there.
Because after all, if Sanguinius is still fated
to die on Terra, well, that means there's still
a Terra. It's Kurz, isn't it? Kurz says... I
think the lion. He's like, an assassin was sent
by the Imperium to kill me. And he's like, wait,
there's still an Imperium. If there's an assassin,
there's an Imperium. Good, good, good, good.
The Imperium has to be around to send assassins.
So, and again, Gilman, with knowing this, he's
like, all right, no more Imperium Secundus. Ultramarines,
my sons, we're going to bash our heads against
the fleets that Lorgar and Angron are surrounding
us with, as are the Dark Angels, while the Blood
Angels rush to Terra. They have that sad moment
where Sanguinius asks, so when will I see you
two again? Never. Rip. Rip. The Ultramarines
spend a good amount of time trying to then break
out of the blockade themselves, which they eventually
do, which is part of why the... The duel happens
as Horus finally receives news that the Smurfs
are coming. Gilliman is bearing down on Terra
alongside the Dangels. It's not going to be good
when that happens. We should point out as well,
the reason what makes the Ultramarines so dangerous
and why Horus earlier stated he didn't know if
he could take on Gilliman's Ultramar is because
the Ultramarines, despite their massive legion,
they're also willing to utilize regular human.
like armada regiments other things so when when
gilliman has an armada coming to basically hammer
an anvil on horus in the siege of terror it's
not just the ultramarines it's the ultramarines
plus like twice that number in military like
ultramarine military shattered legion elements
yeah like all survive like like when it's like
gilliman basically i think it says that he comes
to the equivalent of what is like almost like
a mini great crusade fleet yeah much like terror
Kind of like Roman Auxiliaries kind of deal.
He's not just bringing the Legion. He's bringing
everything the Legion can grab together. It is
going to be a fully functioning war machine.
And he's quite pissed. Space Marines are incredibly
deadly, but you have to remember a melter gun
to the face is still a melter gun to the face.
Just looking at pure stats, an Oberyn is stronger
than a Space Marine by a fair margin. Yeah, the
Space Marines are elite, and the Old Marines
have numbers, so... Yeah, even with a third of
them dying, they're still the largest by far.
Kind of crazy that they lost the Tijitera. I'm
still not buying it. I'm still not buying it.
Well, the traitors. Yeah. Too busy gooning, I
guess. Too busy gooning. That's more of a...
That's more because the Emperor defeats Horus,
not... like and even because they said like the
um this is getting on its own episode to be fair
but as in it's more of like there are so many
minute factors like like minute decisions that
lead to the trade like the loyalists just squeaking
out a lyric victory it's so close that and you
know half the trader legions were full -on insane
by this point so it's like world leaders can
you help oh you're you're blending just you're
three miles away Horus in his delusional state
is like, I wish I had other Primarchs. These
ones are useless. They won't do anything I tell
them. They're squabbling. They're squabbling.
Right there. Except for Perturabo. He then abused.
Then Perturabo left because he's like, I'm not
happy here. This entire thing sucks. I'm going
home. Like that Zangor was going home. I think
I just got rocked in. So we know, you know, he
doesn't partake in the Siege of Terra. He does
get there. It's time for politicking with Primarchs.
And this culminates in the Ultramarines, well,
Gillivan, writing the Codex Astartes, where he
makes it apply to his own chapter, the Legion.
He's not a total hypocrite with this, total hypocrite.
I don't want there to be, there should never
be a Horus heresy ever again. Yes, it's nice
to have a Legion beat stick. But the traitor
Marines are driven off. We now own most of the
galaxy. We not only don't really need them as
Legion forces anymore, but if there's another
horror scenario, someone else goes bad. I don't
want them throwing another Legion at, you know,
at the Imperium. So in addition to being the
big tactical book and strategic book of everything
Gilliman could ever think of at the time, which
was quite a few things. He demands that the legions
split up. Not everyone agrees with this, but
he either convinces enough of that, well, he
convinces enough of them that they're kind of
just outvoted, with some exceptions, although
the exceptions, like the salamanders didn't really
need to do much splitting into chapters because
there weren't many of them left. There's some
brand new kind of, I guess at the time of recording,
cutting edge lore in the scouting stuff, which
it kind of hints the fact that... I guess, yeah,
everyone won't necessarily know this if you want
to learn new stuff, which is Gilliman is kind
of seeing himself as the leader of the Imperium
in pseudo place of the Emperor, at least the
way I mean Andy interprets it. And he doesn't
trust his brothers to the extent when it even
comes to the Emperor's condition and like the
survival of the Emperor. He actually doesn't
necessarily trust the other loyalist Primarchs
to make the quote unquote right choice. So Gilliman.
being a character who will, like, you know, he'll
author the Codex Astartes and other things, and
essentially take command of the Imperium, the
other loyalist Primarchs notice this, and they
basically say, like, you know, he's going to
turn everyone into Ultramarines, essentially,
or, you know, Ultramarines are going to turn
Terra into what, you know, they're basically
McCrag 2 .0 in some sense. So, I mean, I think,
to be fair, it's probably true. If I may be so
bold, I think things would be a bit better if
he turned everything into McCrag 2 .0. McCrag
is quite a nice place. But it's in the same way.
It's the same problem. Horus got corrupted because
he was the Warmaster. What if the Chaos Ever
regained strength and targeted Gilliman because
he's someone who wields so much power? Me and
Andy, because we did a Lodgecast episode on the
Scouring book, and we can see from that the normal
civilian so much more is being handed away from...
primarch control and as now is mostly in the
hands of what essentially are imperial citizens
high lords of terror and gilliman he's the one
in charge baby yeah although i will say this
and well this is part favoritism but it is also
the the history thing again i find it very likely
this is a another a reference to the roman dictatorships
where in times of crisis they would uh lsl would
become a dictator which yes it is a dictator
but it's it was it was a position kind of deal
yeah like it's it's not just you know how we
say it where a dictator takes power it's like
it's a position where cut the red tape uh you
can have basically unlimited power and then when
the crisis is over you you no longer the dictator
you go home which to be fair more often than
not that's kind of just how it went i think it
was in roman was in roman history that most dictators
like Pretty much all of them gave up their power.
Yeah, they did. I suppose apart from Caesar,
I guess. Yeah, they did. He was the one who didn't,
and we made an empire. But no, I find it fairly
likely it is a reference to that. Cool. So not
necessarily, even if, say that's all objectively
true. These and odds, Gilman could have at the
end of the day, whenever he's like, okay, we
can breathe. I'm going home now. Goodbye, everyone.
And there is a line, I don't. I remember what
it was in, but he's like, I wish I could just
be a farmer. So I find it likely Gilman probably
would have just gone home when he felt he could.
But with that now, the Ultramarines are just
one chapter out of many. Of course, Ultramar
also is shrunken in size. After all, one chapter
does not need 500 worlds. They are, you know,
a lot of them are taken over by Ultramarine successor
chapters, which at this point were Ultramarines.
But Ultramar itself shrinks, if only, you know,
on official documents and whatnot. The Legion
is vastly reduced in size, though they will still
work with each other, as all successor chapters
no doubt do with their progenitor. And the Ultramarines
set themselves up as the shining light in the
dark of the Eastern Imperium, because Ultima
Segmentum, you will notice, is like 70 % of the
galaxy. It's pretty much like the powerhouse
of the Imperium, isn't it? Even for the modern
day. Macragge is one of only three worlds, the
other being Terra and Mars, that is allowed to
have its own rule over them. No other planet
but those two can do that, and Macragge. It's
a bloody shame it's so far away from Terra. That
would have been useful if it was a little bit
closer. Would have been useful, but Constantinople
wasn't next to Rome. I guess that may be another
reference as well then, isn't it? The Imperium
Secundus absolutely was just the Byzantine Empire.
Although then again, now we get the Imperium
Nihilus and Sanctus, which is also the Byzantine
and Western Roman Empire. It seems like Gaines
Wiltshire will keep copying history, guys. It's
a crazy theory there. Gilman would not be around
for too much longer until he wakes up from his
nap. He did that thing again. I'm going to go
fight Fulgrim. I'm going to go beat him up. And
then he gets his neck sliced open, poisoned.
Easy dub. And the Ultramarines would not be the
best off for this. It could be far worse. It
should be noted, though, that when Gilliman wrote
the Codex Astartes, the only point he said you
have to follow is split yourselves up into chapters.
Everything else, this is just a big book of tactics
and strategy and how I think it's best to do
things. You don't have to. You shouldn't do it
if it doesn't make sense for the situation. Here's
my notes. Well, Macrog does avoid most of the
decline, at least compared to everyone else that
the Imperium faces. It is a very stable realm,
nice place. The Ultramarines have followed Gilman's
teachings as well as they could without his presence.
They keep everything running. If nothing else,
they did remember that a functioning government
and civilization that is in a wild, anarchic
hellhole is a good thing to have, so they keep
Makrok going. It is a jewel of the Imperium.
Ultramar, even without 500 worlds, is still probably
the strongest single subsect of the Imperium,
right? Unless you're kind of cheating and saying,
well, the entirety of the Adeptus Mechanicus
could beat Ultramar. Yeah, okay, well, that's...
I don't know if that really counts. As like a
little political entity, Ultramar is still the
best place to be. That being said, not immune
to things going, you know, being worse than they
were before. The Ultramarines in particular,
a little codex goes from, you know, their dad's
guidebook to their dad's really cool guidebook
and he's not around anymore. Yeah, it goes to
the Bible. This is the codex is right. If you
are not codex compliant in all ways, we're going
to hit you with a brick. It's interesting, though,
because I don't think the Ultramarines, correct
me if I'm wrong, they don't see the Emperor as
a god, though, even when the Ecclesiarchy eventually
spreads across the Imperium over the millennia.
They think he's just the Emperor, the master
of mankind, not Emperor, he's going to make me
ascend to the holy place. Most chapters are like
that. There's only a few, like the Black Templars
and some other ones, who are zealous. They're
the exception. But all chaplains do, right? I
don't remember. It's very ambiguous in Space
Marine books most of the time. They're strange.
Because they're talking about heresy and stuff
like this as if there is a divine right. I think
they launched heresy, don't they? They even talk
about heresy before when the Imperial Truth was
created. They're kind of like combinations of
the old iterators of the Remembrance of Order
and Commissars, but for Space Marines. Some of
them are extremely religious and they are like,
I mean, even the Ecclesiarchy gives them their
Rosario says. And so maybe a chaplain can also
be like, oh, I am religious, but also... Doesn't
mean I'm going to push it on my brothers. It's
also like... Even when Big E was around, we have
the Imperial Truth, he still called his big war
the Great Crusade. There are connotations with
that. Even though chapters lead Astartes in sermons.
Again, I don't know what the correct interpretation
of it is, but it seems somewhat... It's spiritual,
but it might not necessarily be a religion kind
of practice. Well, the emperor is like, some
of them pray in the sense of like, you know,
again, to the emperor in general. It's like very
advanced. It's a kind of meditation more than
anything is how I try and view it. But I also...
They're warrior monks. Yeah, but monk implies...
Yeah, that's another thing. That's the thing.
Usually in most books, the space marines do seem
quite religious. But then like every once in
a while, there's like a little codex reminder.
Oh, they don't actually believe in the emperor.
But in most of the books they do. So it's very
weird. I mean, it's it's again, why did why did
the emperor want to be atheist? And then he put
cathedrals on top of it. And it's like, dog,
you are not giving the correct impression. You
put you put jet engines on Notre Dame. All right.
People are going to be religious. We should also
say as well, at this point when we're getting,
we're creeping through the millennia, the 500
worlds of Ultramar was established. The sphere
of influence shrinks and to the point where,
I don't know what the size of Ultramar is in
the 42nd or what was the 41st millennium before
Gilliman again, but it was definitely not 500
worlds. I feel like I've read a couple of different
things. Like I'd have to, the numbers I've gotten
have been anything from like eight to like 50.
So one of those is definitely way smaller. But
it's still, like, even within that, Ultramar
is still, like... A bastion, yeah. Yeah, it's
still a bastion of, you know, what was, you know,
what once was and whatnot. Decent living conditions,
all that nice stuff. It should be, you know...
And I... Let him cook. what i'm trying to cook
is like what what do i pick to start with i'm
like oh yeah what's a nice starting point for
like what's what are some of the things the ultra
means we're doing right what weren't they doing
yeah they have so many goddamn books um should
we start with quake do you want to start with
one more like the part where like most of us
follow on from which is the um The Tyrannic War?
Maybe that's a good place to start. That's kind
of emblematic of how they had changed over the
time. Like I said, they'd started following the
Codex as a Bible. Ultramar has definitely shrunken.
And... Marnie is Caligari's chapter master at
this point as well. Yeah. And it should be noted
that... as much as they shouldn't have been following
it like a Bible, Gilman was very smart. He was
very thorough. You can find answers to a lot
of situations, even 10 ,000 years down the line
in the codex. So, and even again, even if it's
not the perfect solution, if a space Marine is
running you down with not the best solution,
you're probably still going to die. Even he could
be doing it, you know, 10 % more efficiently.
That only matters so much. Oh, well, goodbye.
So like you said on mountains, that guy has floated
to me. So they're still doing good work. So what's
the clip of the guy? Like, like, Oh my God, it's
Jesus. This reminds me of Simpsons where it's
just like. I must go now. My planet needs me.
Poochie's dead. On the way to his home planet.
So, they're still doing alright. Oh, there's
paint on my feet. Anyway. Wow. Hell of a transition
there. I hope they painted the rest of that house
the same color of green as your office. It is
not going to be green, but I'm also not changing
the green room. Wow. Remember, Chad, you have
a free... It has a free green screen that you
can color key any images you want on that wall.
I can't stop you. But Ultramar is doing good.
Ultramarines are doing good. There's some echoing
off in the corners of the galaxy, even farther
out than Ultramar is. Some planets seem to just
be losing contact, vanishing. And eventually,
from the Ultramarines' perspective, an Inquisitor
comes along, a man named Cryptman. and informs
them that the end times have come, because bugs
from beyond the stars are here to eat everyone.
Sure enough, the Tyranids have arrived, and they
don't seem like they're going away anytime soon.
High Fleet Behemoth crashes into the galaxy,
crashes into Ultramar, which there's also a little
bit of directing them towards Ultramar, because
with how big Ultima Segmentum is, If they make
it past Ultramar, there's, for, like, tens of
thousands of light years, it's going to be very
hard to form another, like, solid defensive point,
right? So they wrangle him towards Ultramar,
and the entire chapter marches forth on the planet
of Prondium. And, viewer, I don't know if you
might know this, but it is my understanding that
Prondium in Latin translates to lunch. I wonder
how this planet's going to fare. Sure enough,
the Ultramarines crack open the big old codex,
figure out what to do, implement some strategies,
and it is a horrific loss. Squads of Ultramarines
are surrounded and devoured. Even Marnius Kalgar,
he's there himself. He doesn't come away from
it great. He's going to come away from it worse
pretty soon. But it is decisive Ultramarine L.
They are... the planet and then itself, there's,
there's nothing left of the planet. It was a,
once again, a lush garden world, a fun little
fact. It was also invaded by the forces of the
beast for a bit, but then that was repulsed.
Now it's a marble. There's nothing left, but
you know, gravel, even the atmosphere is gone.
So the ultra Marines, Marnius Calgar takes a,
he, he goes, he basically locks himself away
for a bit, has a good hard think goes. We have
to get over this whole Codex thing. It's a great
book. I like the book. We can't keep following
it like it's the Bible. Do you think he almost
heaves when he says it? We have to... Yeah. He
almost heaves when he says it. We have to get...
We can't follow it. Yeah, it was probably, you
know, gagging. But sure enough, they do. And
so they take the lessons they've learned. They
change strategies up. High Fleet Behemoth comes
to nothing short of Makrog itself. And Apocalypse
Now. I mean, Tyranids are raining from the skies.
Makrog has orbital defenses, by the way. It's
not, you know, it's no Cadia. But it's got some
pretty robust defenses. The Ultramarines still
have quite the fleet. They had quite the fleet.
They had some orbital defenses as the Tyranids
bowl through them. The battle on the ground commences.
Entire regions of Ultramar. There was the place,
you know, where Marnius Calgar fought Cold Steel
Ridge. McCracken, it's a, you know, it's like
an industrial sector, right? It makes, you know,
a lot of alarms for the ultramarines, for all
the auxilia. It used to do that before the Tyranids
just kind of meat -tided all over the entire
thing. This was, again, where one of the greatest
individual losses in ultramarines history was.
because Marnius Calgar tried to combat the Swarmlord
in 1v1, got most of his limbs ripped off for
the trouble, and the only reason he made it out
was because his Honor Guard essentially kept
feeding themselves to the Swarmlord until they
could pull him out. Sure enough, too, in the
Polar Fortresses, I believe the northern one
it was, the Ultramarines had a first company.
By the time the fighting was over, they didn't
have a first company and all of the Terminator
armor that entails. There's a cool diorama out
there of that. There is. Oh, it looks so cool.
Nevertheless, they are able to just barely squeak
through. And it should be noted, it's not even
just the Ultramans at this point. They kind of
did like semi -Legion because they called in
some successor chapters. They called in kind
of like you said, Hal, a mini Great Crusade fleet.
They called up the Auxilia. They called up everything
they could. There were Titan Legions prowling
Macrog. Because this was all of a high fleet
versus everything they could muster here. And
because of that, they were just barely able to
squeak out a win. What's the... Because I think
they said it's the part which they most value
on McCrag slash. It's usually a bad sign if any
enemy gets close to this. It's usually game over.
But is it the gates of Ptolemy or the library
of Ptolemy? I think it's the library. Because
this is like a small detail, which is again a
cool thing for people who don't know Ultramarine
stuff. They have this area on McCrag that's often,
I think the Tyrians get close to it, don't they?
In this Tyronic war. They get very close to even
the Fortress Monastery of Hera, which is their...
Yeah. But I believe it is in the Library of Ptolemy
where Gilliman's corpse is in stasis. Yeah, that's
where he's... It's the Shrine of Gilliman where
he was taking a nap, which had been used as a
pilgrimage site. 20 kilometers from Gilliman.
He just needed 20 more kilometers, John Swarm
Lord. Yeah, but there's a cool detail. I think
Dante... once went to mccragg and he speaks about
like you could see through the stasis capsule
they keep him like frozen in time at the point
of his death like you see like flecks of dried
blood like in this the wound across i mean like
people would say like you know 10 000 years i'm
like oh yeah primark's like a myth you can go
see one on the yeah yeah at this time which is
incredible you could literally it was it was
oh sorry every chapter master ever at one point
was like like it's the only chapter in like or
any successors for them as well who would actually
go and see that their prime mark was a living
being and not mythology so yeah not made up Calgo,
I think... Tyranids eating a Primarch and then
making a special Tyranid for the Primarch would
be... Game over. Well, I mean, even those big
tanky Tyranids with the really bulbous design
and they're blind. They're based on Space Marines.
Yeah, so they nommed on some Space Marines and
went, these guys are bulky. We can put that in.
Yeah, go for it. I say, following this assault
on McCraggan, I guess, is it the First Tyrannic
War? First Tyrannic War. And it was... It was
bad. They won the day, but they had to call in
the Blood Angels to help them get rid of the
remaining Tyranids after the space battle was
won. The space battle only won because they set
an Emperor -class battleship to explode in the
middle of the fleet. Yeah, it cost them resources
that they'll never be able to get back. No, you
can't make more of those. That's gone. Teretic
War Aftermath. Not great. Definitely not great.
Even like... Macrog itself has now been invaded
and half of it is somewhere digesting in a tyranid.
So that's not ideal. It took them decades to
replenish their losses, which I find particularly
insane because they have the Genesis chapter.
They have an entire chapter that exists to one
day be promoted to ultramarine. Even before that,
I'm pretty sure it's also... true to say that
the size of the emperor were like a secret company
of the uh of the ultramarines in its day and
there's like oh we got like a kind of extra couple
of guys couple hundred guys they're just gonna
be like our an 11th company when we're just putting
the codex in don't worry oh we'll make them into
a proper chapter then we don't have to like acknowledge
that they are don't worry about it they're the
size even with two backups like it took them
over half a century to like properly rebuild
blood angels had to do a lot of the heavy lifting
in the aftermath it was bad but they did they
did learn their lesson they uh broke codex compliance
created the tyrannic war veterans a little special
unit you can't buy those anymore uh they don't
exist anymore rest in peace but uh they did they
did move on they did a try and like they're like
we have to adapt again we've uh we've lost sight
of our ways as being you know like the space
romans where you know maybe you'll get us the
first time but we'll adapt to the second no we
have to do that again we can't just go book says
this do this uh gilman did not encounter the
tyranids he didn't really have a solution for
endless tide of bugs so a little rough but they're
uh they're coming back on top and i did i did
i did gloss over it a bit but i'm glad you did
bring it up They could, like you said, they had
proof that their gene father wasn't just a myth.
They could see him and pray around Gilman anytime
they want. And that was even one of the biggest
tourist destinations, essentially, in all of
the Imperium, second only to the people trying
to see the Emperor at Eternity Gate and all that.
Security must be crazy. Oh, I mean... I mean,
it's in their fortress monastery. There's no
way that, you know, you were going through all
of the background checks to go see the Primarch.
But, you know, rebuilding begins. They are the
Ultramarines, the greatest of them all. And they're
able to come back on top for a bit. Sure enough,
there is also the second Tyrannic War with round
two against High Fleet Kraken. But this one does
overall, I would say it goes a bit better. uh
also no doubt helped both you know they have
those tyrannic war veterans they have experience
with fighting the tyranids uh in much the same
way the first time roman rome tried to build
a navy it didn't go so good carthage said no
i guess the the second time it all sank from
a storm but that third time they they had it
they had carthage's number i'm pretty sure the
the second war it's like Marnius Kalgar comes
in at the clutch moment right at the end with
his Ultramarines. He sees the Swarmlord and he's
like, rematch, bitch, and he wins. Yeah, he's
learned his lesson. Because he's Marnius Kalgar.
He's on top of this. And he is mostly mobile.
And also, yeah. Also no doubt helping was that
off to the sideline, another half of High Fleet
Kraken was devouring Iandan. They had some unwitting
unknown about help in the Second Tyrannic War.
And we come to the modern day of the setting.
This is again why I was saying I was struggling.
At the end of the 41st millennium, Cato Sicarius
is on like five different planets at the same
time. Yeah, a lot happens in the general sense.
The chapters everywhere in 999 and 41. Yeah,
which a lot of people were too. But like Cato
Sicarius is stunting on the Catan. The Nightbringer
just beating him up. Avengers? Yeah. I think
Ventress as well. Yeah, Uriel Ventress does that
too. Uriel Ventress also is fighting Honsu and,
you know, the Iron Warriors who also invade.
He goes all over the galaxy. It is, like, all
of these could be their own thing because they
all have, like, quite extensive books about them.
There's a cool fact that the Ultramarines don't
just recruit from, like, most of the Serious
Marine chapters are either They are, you know,
in their ships. They're the one homeworld, whereas
the Ultramarines recruit from all over Macragge.
So there are people who come from the long -ruined
world of Kalf. There are people who, like Kalgar,
who comes from the Agriworld. I can't remember
the name of his homeworld. Yeah, he comes from
an Agriworld. I don't remember which one, but
yeah, he does come. He's not from Macragge natively.
I don't know. I think Ventress is not even from...
I think Ventress is from Kalf. I think Ventress
is from Kal as well. Yeah, and Kato is from an
ocean. The Void Tridents is where he's from.
The Void Tridents chapter is also, is it Talasar
he's from? I think so, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah,
so even with that, they did still keep some of
their old, like the good parts of their old Legion
practices where, again, they're like, hey, you're
not from a crag? Who cares? Are you good? Are
you good at what you do? Join the Ultramarines.
And they have a long lineage of heroes now. Ventress
was allowed to be recruited into the old trees
because he had an ancestor who was another Ventress
who was a hero of the chapter. So they do respect
lineage in some sense. Older ancestor as well.
Not ancestor, but predecessor as well that he
meets up with. And you're like, oh, wow, they're
all connected. It all connects. One big happy
family. Before we move on to the return. You
know, some stuff for the daily life, right? For
space marines, they're not too aloof for their
normal populace, right? Like, again, they have
people, normal people can make a pilgrimage to
a, could to see Gilliman's, you know, stasis
body. So they interact with the common man every
now and again. They do march, they do, you know,
they do venture out into the streets of McCragg.
If you go to a nice restaurant at McCragg, there's
a non -zero chance if you look over at the guy
at the table next to you, there's one of the
emperor's angels enjoying himself a nice olive
oil and wine lunch. Rub. Some nice Roman food.
Like I said, very efficient. They're the master
of none, which on tabletop has been very fun
to see the history of that. Because sometimes
the only reason to take the Ultramarines as your
army was for characters. Sometimes they can outshoot
the Imperial Fists and outcharge the Blood Angels,
depending on the edition. It's a bit of a nightmare
at the moment, to be honest, I won't lie. Victory's
Guard is a... Yeah, just a nightmare. Shame on
you. Shame on you to those people. But yeah,
they do a little bit of everything well. They're...
How could I forget? Space Marine 1. That's just
another thing they do. Captain Titus goes off
to save a Forge world. He has three Marines.
He does it. Thank you, Ultramarines. Yeah, it's
not specific to the actual... Sedonis did die
at the hands of a Chaos Lord. Oh no, one guy
died after the Ultramarines butchered entire
Wa and Chaos space. Largely, even though we talked
about how they are amazing, they are jack of
all trades, in a general sense, when we get into
999 M41... the status of the chapter is still
a decline from what even their previous selves
were just a few millennia before, let alone 10
,000 years. So, well, I say it's a real special
event that comes up here, which I think Colin's
going to talk about, where, you know, the galaxy's
going to be split in two. And the chapter's going
to change a lot. I would, really quick though,
since you mentioned that, I say, I think the
thing that showcases their decline the most is
the Tau Empire's existence. Because this is...
This is like the jewel of the Imperium, right?
This is the most prosperous industrial realm
where they've lost the least amount of stuff.
They can't stop a species of cavemen from forming
a giant empire on their doorstep. So even the
Ultramines were doing good, but even they've
fallen far enough that they couldn't stop that
from just happening. barbarians at the gates,
as it were. And barbarians at the gates is a
problem because it means they've gotten past
the walls you've built to keep them out. And
even in 10 ,000 years, they've not... You're
telling me you didn't improve your weapons and
army for 10 ,000 years? Yeah, no, the best they
can say is it didn't get worse, or at least not
as worse as everyone else. They still stagnated.
Yeah. But that big ol' event, off, you know,
off in the... corner of the galaxy, Abaddon throws
a ship at a planet. A giant Eldar ancient fortress
thing that rips it asunder. Cracks the planet
in half. Well, in half. Into bits. Cadia has
fallen. The Great Rift forms as the Eye of Terror,
the Warpstorm turbocharges and spreads across
the entire galaxy with two passageways connecting
it. and it's not looking great for the Imperium.
If there's ever a sign of a Chaos dub, that would
probably be it. It's like the zipper, you know,
between your balls and your anus. A Chaos zipper.
Where do you get your zippers? How has no one
ever heard of that term before? I know what you
mean now that you put it. You wear your trousers
back to front between what? The skin zipper.
No, like the little ridge and your nuts. Oh,
that's hilarious. Thank you for the chat for
people who were having too much time enjoying
the lore there. I wanted to really ruin it. Yeah,
you know, a little ball sack zipper jump scare.
Eye of taint. Guys, what did you expect? You
were having too much of a good time. Yeah. But
yeah, so that's happening. It's not great. The
Ultramarines, fun fact, do participate in the
fall of Cadia, though. Not the Ultramarines chapter,
just the Pokeballs Trazen tosses out where he
just has some great Crusader Ultramarines. So
there are some Smurfs at the fall of Cadia. That's
fun. But for the Ultramarines themselves, they
have some surprise visitors. Some important Inquisitors,
some refugees from Cadia. And in the only shining
moment of them achieving anything, the Yanari.
who, alongside Eldred, help bring back the Primarch
to life. No longer locked in his stasis coffin
to keep him from dying. Rebute Gilliman returns
to... What would the Imperium do without the
Eldar? Die. Just to point out. This is in the
Library of Ptolemy as well. So they managed to
get that, the Black Legion got that far in. The
Black Legion, I mean, understandably, Abaddon
heard the words Primarch waking up and went,
no, no, I don't want that. Can't have that. So
he threw everyone who hadn't, like by this point,
all the traitor forces still listening to him
because, you know, Cadia fell. A lot of them
were going on a bender, especially like the world
eaters, right? So he threw every force he could
that was basically either not. desperately needed
elsewhere or would still listen to him was like
please stop that which did not work uh gilliman
calmly assesses the situation uh as he wakes
up i like the passages and like everything is
just dead silent as he comes out of like a door
as everyone just stares at him and his glare
his glare was hate it was hate in his eyes oh
yeah he was not pleased uh the silence was broken
by one Very brave world eater who got punched
in the face. I think it was Collegiate 2 by the
Emperor's Sword. Because at this point, Gilliman
still has the Emperor's Sword. I don't know why
I always think he punched him to death. There
was an older retcon of the Dark Imperium trilogy,
wasn't it? Where Gilliman supposedly found the
Emperor's Sword on a random planet. Yeah, I think
that's what I'm thinking of. And then they changed
the event so where Gilliman had the Emperor's
Sword at the... And during the scouring, I think,
did he become a Lord Commander during the scouring?
The Lord Gilibid was the position. Isn't it also
the thing of, like, did Call, I think there was
even a thing where Call brought it with him,
because there's the whole thing of the devastation
of Baal. Dante keeps seeing visions of the Emperor
on the throne, and then just before the Tyranids
arrive, the sword is missing, and he's like,
oh, that can't be a good thing. I can't remember
which, because there's been so few records, I
can't remember which one it is, but... I also
have a thing of like, Belisarius calls resurrection,
you know, using the armor of fate, which he crafted
for Gilliman. It wouldn't have worked without
the Unari feeding souls into Gilliman's like
thing. So Gilliman is actually, when we say like
Gilliman is not like, we say resurrected, literally,
I think Yavrain tells him, you were brought back
to life. You died. So you did actually die. And
the armor of fate just stopped the. poison, that
Fulgrim's blade is on his neck. It just stops
that temporarily. But he actually did die. Iron
Man 1 kind of deal. Yeah. And for a while he's
like, I can't leave the suit. And then they were
like, you can leave the suit now. It's okay.
In Spouts. But yeah, Gilliman is, I think it
says in this scene, like he, they all stop because
his eyes are full of hate and they're all just
like, oh God. Yeah, like, oh, that's a Primarch
and it's not one of the ones on our side. Oh
shit. And then my favorite part, he just starts
moving. He's like, dof, dof, dof. And he starts
cleaving with the Emperor's sword pretty quick.
Yeah, he goes to work and sure enough, he does.
The Black Legion and all the other tagalongs
are repulsed from a crag. And the Ultramarines
now have their dad back. I hate to interrupt.
I'm doing it a lot this episode because this
is so cool. When Kalgar is like almost beaten
to death and then he sees Gilman and him make
eye contact for a second. He's like, the fucking
Primarch moves. He's like, oh shit. I've got
an erection. I'm back. I'm back in the fight.
I'm an Ultra Boner. He's so near death that when
Gilman is... they're like, when they settle,
the dust settles, and they're like, oh my god,
the Primarch's alive. And then Calgar hands over
the control of the chapter and Macragge to Gilliman.
He almost has to have help, doesn't he? He's
like, get off of me, I can stand! And he kneels,
you know, it's pretty weird for, you know, a
41st millennium Astarte to kneel before a living
Primarch and be like, here's my chapter, Dad.
You know? Yeah. Yeah, so pretty amazing. Pretty
amazing scene. You love me? I love you. Oh, good.
Stupid. Stupid part of the lore. They say Gilliman
doesn't work out like Imperial Gothic has changed.
He's a primarch. He can understand it in a second.
Stupid. Sorry, Colin. Go ahead. You know, he
post -coma, you know, he just woke up. He's still
a little groggy. Everyone's speaking. I mean,
technically Gilliman speaks in like the old ways
with Shakespearean tongue. Yeah. So there's some
teething troubles for the Ultramarines now. And
then Cal goes, Skivity Riz, and the Primate was
like, what? What are you talking about? He's
like, here's the man, Dan. And then Galen's like,
what? That's the real reason he privately is
the one they like, maybe Horace should have won.
He heard Skivity Riz, and he's like, yeah, oh
yeah, it's over. My lord, you've been out for
six, seven years. Six, seven years. Oh, God.
But there's some teething troubles for the Ultramarines.
It should be noted, as according to our Lord
Prophet Matt Ward, Marnius Calgar was the spiritual
liege of all the Ultramarines. They all looked
up to him. Marnius Calgar's guidance had kept
them strong for quite some time, as he's quite
the cool dude. But now he's playing second fiddle,
which in itself, like you said, he did give command
willingly back to Gilliman. But, you know, for
example, even Marnius Caligari, though, he said,
like, you know, we can't just purely follow the
codex. Gilman was like, hard to rewrite a lot
of things. I got to update this book. Second,
we've been on the first edition for 10 ,000 years.
We got to we got to update this thing. Well,
some of the more, you know, the biggest fans
that they're like, whoa, I settled down. We,
you know, we agreed we can change some things,
but you're going ham on this. Also, you know,
there's a lot of things with relics, right? Like
the ultramarines, they have degraded. What would
have been just a tool in the Great Crusade has
become some of the sacredest, most awe -inspiring
pieces of equipment. Sometimes just by virtue
of Gilliman having touched it once. So he walks
into office one day and Gilliman just, you know,
he throws out some old piece of notes he was
working on. They all like, what the fuck are
you doing? Or it's like the, I'm sure it's the
Romans when they had like, when you go to the
bathroom, you have the sponge on a stick and
it's like dunked in vinegar. Like the Primarch
used this to wash his bum. Like it is a sacred
artifact. Oh no. Please throw that away. Please
throw that away. Oh my God. Poop knife, Gilliman
sponge. Yeah. But, and. Sure enough, Gilliman
comes from that time of legend, and he might
be asking just a little bit too much. Sure enough,
Gilliman starts the Indominus Crusade, the Ultramarines,
of course, heading it. Rampage across the Imperium,
try and stabilize everything. Tyranids, Orcs,
and Chaos Marines, oh my. Which the Ultramarines,
they do throw themselves into. But there are
some problems. Marnius, Kalgar, and of course
now Captain Titus. Gilman demands the 500 worlds
be brought back anew. No longer will Ultramar
shrink. Bring it back into one big sub -empire.
Daddy wants his house back. Yeah, Daddy wants
his house back, which sure enough, even cool
dude Captain Titus is like, that's not happening,
man. I'm going to try. That's not going to happen.
When he breaks the Codex Extartes and then he
makes other, he makes like a tetrarch, doesn't
he? He splits Ultramar into four quadrants. He
does. Because it used to be ruled like that in
the Great Crusade, but then it shrank, so there
was no need for those positions anymore. Now
he's brought that back. So it's like Western
Roman Empire and Eastern Roman Empire, except
Ultramar's four, because it's enormous. They
have chapter masters who help. Although, fun
fact, even in Rome, there was, Tetrarchy was
the Roman system. There was two senior emperors
and two junior ones. Space Rome, remember? There
was a Julius and then there was an Augustus,
wasn't there? They had mini titles. Yeah, so
there was two of the main ones and then two sub
-emperors. Who would learn from the older one.
That's cool. I didn't realize they linked it
that strongly. Space Rome. You will understand.
Space Rome. So the Ultramarines are coming back
swinging. They're a little bit... I'm tentatively
thinking... They're kind of on the upswing again.
As it turns out, you can get away with Legion
building in the modern times if you're sneaky
about it, and they're also a Primarch. The Lord
Macrog, I do still believe that is still Marnius
Calgar, just because Gilliman's the Lord Commander
of the Imperium. He did give it back to Calgar.
Calgar does... I can't remember what it is. I
think Calgar does speak at one point and he's
like, This is what we alluded to earlier. He's
embarrassed in some way that Ultramar had fallen
so low compared to the 500 worlds it was before.
Even the McCraggy and personal guard, they once
fought off the tyrannies and the current era
ones are like fopping wet boys or whatever. He
makes fun of them. Yeah, they rebel against him
and he... he's like this rebellion was so shit
that how bad is your training nowadays oh my
god yeah like it just shows like like calgar
was almost like he understandably is like has
an unreasonable resentment towards gilliman because
because gilliman exists it proves how far they've
fallen yeah there's that's some of the teething
troubles too they they're measuring themselves
up to what they once were and they're not terribly
happy with what they're seeing in the mirror
still doing way better than most other people
but you know oh yeah And with the governance
thing, I've just double checked. Their first
captain, Agamann, he's also the regent of Ultramar
whenever Marnius Kalgar is away. And so even
the captains have a swathe of entire worlds or
even entire star systems. Because they just have
so much stuff. They have less than they had,
but they have lots more than everyone else. Their
first captain can, in some circumstances, be
stronger than just about every other chapter
master of the Imperium. And no one knows who
he is. Most planets in the Imperium, the chapter
master, even if it's like a recruiting homeworld,
they're not usually the leader of the planet.
There's a planetary governor. Yeah, there's still
someone else. The Ultramarines are the actual
leaders of McCragg. At the end of the day, if
they even... Yeah, they rule McCragg, which is
not very common. But that's why it's probably
stayed so nice, because the Ultramarines guiding
it kept it nice and... Good -ish. In the Imperium
of Man, a 6 out of 10 may as well be paradise.
Bruh. And yeah, so come that, we get the modern
Ultramarines, the blue and gold, and there are
other companies with different color schemes,
but who gives a shit seems to be the running
theme of GW. Are there any questions or added
things? uh any last details we can think of actually
before we um hmm actually i think i had maybe
one i could think of like things in dark imperium
which is they are adding on they have like a
uh who's the guy captain felix who's technically
he's now the 11th captain like oh yeah if you're
if you're sneaky about it or you have a primark
you can get away with legion building Yeah, so
they pretty much have changed. Again, the Code
of Astartes is no longer gospel, shall we say.
Well, to some chapters, the space was like, I
don't follow that shit anyway. It wasn't gospel
to begin with. I never cared. Archangels, what
even is this? No, I think, Faye, I think you
covered it pretty good. I hope people who are
listening have learned some pretty cool stuff.
Some extra details as well in there, which we've
tried to add on in because Ultramarines are cool.
Oh, I guess one other ending fun fact. There
used to be a Trader Legion. Is that an early,
like early? Oh, very early lore. They were a
Trader Legion, and then other space marines took
on their mantle to kind of, you know, save the
name. Is this from early Codex lore? Because
I don't remember. This is not a novel stuff.
No, this is from like Rogue Trader, like second
edition. Damn, Codex has been changing quite
a lot. Yeah, we've gone quite a ways from what
40k started as, turns out. The Ultramarines used
to be evil. I think a cool thing, I finished
on one last detail, which is I think the coolest
alternate heresy thing is the one where Gilliman
is the actual antagonist, is like the main version
of what Horus is, you know, the arch traitor.
Ultramarines turning traitor would have been
horrific. You probably would have won. I probably
would have won. I'm one on time. Oh, I guess
one other thing. One of the planets eaten by
High Fleet Behemoth was the world of Sotha, which
was a cardinal world. Okay. I was going somewhere
stupider than that. I can't judge. It was a religious
world named Sotha, so I can't help but wonder
if on this world before the Tyranids ate it.
was a was a tribunal and a six house with a tribe
unmourned something shitty sotha sil marwent
dagother wow that was it i can't remember the
details very well but i'm pretty sure there's
also a thing in the horus heresy where the the
then chief librarian is killed by the knight's
errand or something like that because he's like
oh i i you you You didn't follow the Council
of Nikea or something, so they just obliterate
him. That was in the Crimson King. He joined
the Knight's Errant, I think. He was a previous
one. And then the Space Wolves end up killing
him because they find out he was culling Space
Marines. Yes. They got rid of him. This is, again,
there's so much Ultramarine content. Andy, there's
an image I've sent you if you put in the lore
crimes. If that could be put on screen. We'll
put it in the edit. Here's your equal attention
cake, Space Marines. Damn. And the Ultra Marines
get the biggest slice of that cake, which is,
again, you can talk about Uriel Ventress easily
his own thing. Marnius Caligar could too. Titus,
like the second company. Barely even talked about
Cato Scarius. I think you get the right episode
every one day. Well, I mean, it's like, where
do I... They mug the other chapters. Before we
add them, it's like, these assholes have more
books than most other chapters. Or even always,
like, Toreas Tellion, who's like, I'm a sergeant,
I'm just a scout sergeant guy. It's like, yeah,
he's... He almost killed an old one -eye. He
hunted him down, kind of. Didn't take him. Do
you know what Colin would be good to finish on?
Just a brief explanation of, because we said
it a few times throughout the episode, what is
theoretical and practical and what's its actual
use? That is how Gilliman and indeed how the
Ultramarines try and basically weigh everything
up and see how they're going to act. The theoretical
is kind of like, okay, here's the situation I'm
in. Here's how, you know, here's what we're going
in with. Practical. What are the ways we can,
you know, we can take care of it? So, you know,
I guess, like you said earlier, theoretical.
The traitor legions are, there are traitor legions
now. Horus and, you know, all those legions have
turned against the Imperium. Practical. Get Aeneid
Thiel out of jail and let's start running some
exercises and figuring out how to now fight space
marines. I do remember a cool part, which is
in the Ventress novels where they mentioned how
not, like it's a thing that comes in and out
of fashion, that sense of using that way of thinking.
And I do think the most poignant example I think
of is when we mentioned in the heresy of Imperium
Secundus, when, you know, they're cut off from
terror and they want to make like a second Imperium.
The reason Gilliman does it, he says like, I
think it's like the theoretical is that terror
has been destroyed. It's like Schrodinger's terror
in some sense. Either terror exists and the emperor
is fine or it doesn't exist. The practical is
what can you practically do with the lack of
information, which is basically continue the
imperium in a sense of if the emperor does exist
or is fine, then you can just dissolve imperium
secundus. If the emperor doesn't exist, then
therefore you've continued the imperium. So that's
the whole point. Theoretical and practical is...
Theoretical is what is possibly going on and
practical is what you can actually do. They take
a very measured approach to everything. What's
the possibilities and then what can I actually
do? Cool stuff. I like that. It's quite nice.
Better Legion chapter thinking in the entirety
of Warhammer lore. Obviously I know it doesn't
come compared to Necron or other. like extra
things but it's like a cool little human thing
you know be it don't be an idiot think about
it use your brain please yes i have i have stuff
from that so our uh our question was something
akin to what makes you rage or what do you see
when you get the black rage it was something
like that question uh so hashtag black rage first
one from uesc Durandal, very topical. Whoever
it was that decided Chiron had to die in a community
post. Rip Chiron. He was cool. Where is Pepe?
Shout out. He says Matt Ward. Just Matt Ward.
We love Matt Ward here on the apps. We love Matt
Ward. Good fella. I haven't read that much of
his stuff. He's been through enough. Leave him
be. My only friend, TheEnd4958 Oh, and the diabetes.
Eli still hasn't read Peak Talor. I donated so
you could get the Coil Omnibus. There's a short
story where a crew murders a train of guardsmen.
It's Peak. That sounds lovely. Do I have to read
the entire Omnibus just to find the one short
story with Talor? I'll look it up right now because
I honestly don't remember that. Oh yeah, I guess
it's my job. I guess I'm reading the questions.
Sorry, I'll look at them later. Jij29, hashtag
BlackRage, anyone who wrote an Eldari book, that's
who you'd see. You'd see a lot of Gavthorpe.
Fair enough. Would you fight Gavthorpe on the
street? He seems like a nice enough guy. He could
have just stuck to writing comics. Alaric plays
games. I would see the people who hated on the
Death of Hope animator as well as other Warhammer
animators until they stopped making Warhammer
animations. Rip Death of Hope. I should have
just kept doing it. Yeah, I think he... I mean,
obviously it's amazing animation. I think he
took more of it to heart. I think it bothered
him quite a lot. You can't be posting on YouTube
and not be ready for criticism. Yeah, I mean,
do you feel like we've all... done this for long
enough where like like i remember it bothered
me in like the first month or two when someone
told me like to go end myself but yeah you know
i mean just for trying but um you know it just
happens online so you know i still get some funny
ones like there's one guy who keeps commenting
being like this effing website won't let me comment
because he keeps writing the foulest things about
it yeah my friend Cole, some of you might know
who Cole is, used to comment on my videos all
the time. And after like the third video I posted,
he was banned from commenting. And YouTube wouldn't
let him comment any more stuff. The amount of
people who say the N word is crazy. Dark Coil
Damnation. Where's the actual? There's a kid.
Novel series. All right. All right. I'm looking
into this. I'm looking into this. And we did
have another question of the week. And I hate
to say this, for the life of me, I've forgotten
it. It was hashtag codex, wasn't it? Firecast.
Yeah, I'm going to read Firecast. Oh, yeah. I
think our question of the week was, what would
be in your codex of Starseeds? And, I mean, going
around the group, guys, what's like a funny thing
maybe you would put in your codex? It's not original,
but I would say, like, it would be first page.
You do not, when you're making a cup of tea,
put the milk in first. Instantly taken to the
Inquisition to be turned into a servitor. that's
that's how that works you've got to pour in the
tea you put the tea bag in then you pour the
hot water then you take the tea bag out and you
put the milk for their animals who put their
tea in the milk first some people get the milk
in and then they add the water that's like that's
like the milk before the cereal but worse somehow
yeah it's culturally painful to see anything
that remotely resembles that I'm riled thinking
about that, Andrew. You really upset me. You
shall never take the treadmill beside someone
if there's another one available two spaces away.
If there's three treadmills and you're on this
one, don't go on this one. Go on this one. I
can have my personal space. My personal space
is unnecessarily invaded. i would say i had a
really dark one there like i can't say that one
are you gonna say no i literally can't uh because
it's like i think of like crazy people i've seen
on the street before but um uh i would say in
my codex of starties is if you're considered
annoying by enough people you immediately have
to be silent For as long as you've annoyed people.
Oh, okay. I would be made silent for years. If
you charge too much for insulin and you think
the codex says you get shot. Into the blender.
You're going face first, funny man. And that
would, I guess with that being said, thank you
guys so much for watching, for listening. Thank
you for calling, for helming. A lot of Ultraman
stuff. And for me, constantly interrupting. It's
helping out, I don't mind. And we'll see you
guys very, very soon in the next one. Peace,
love all.