WEBVTT 00:00:11.660 --> 00:00:14.380 Hello ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, welcome 00:00:14.380 --> 00:00:18.059 back to Lore Crimes. Hello! Evening everyone, 00:00:18.300 --> 00:00:21.219 evening. It's been a while, it's been a while 00:00:21.219 --> 00:00:24.179 since we did a versus match and I thought it 00:00:24.179 --> 00:00:25.800 was about time we brought one back because it's 00:00:25.800 --> 00:00:27.719 good fun. But I'm actually going to be sitting 00:00:27.719 --> 00:00:30.739 this one out because I'm scared of losing again. 00:00:31.500 --> 00:00:35.439 But we also have... Colin is away tonight because 00:00:35.439 --> 00:00:39.460 of house stuff so he's kissing girls and it's 00:00:39.460 --> 00:00:41.740 also in the UK it's in the middle of a bloody 00:00:41.740 --> 00:00:45.619 storm which it mentions oh wow yeah it's stormy 00:00:45.619 --> 00:00:48.859 um so if you do hear any like wishing noises 00:00:48.859 --> 00:00:53.500 or rain be aware that's why uh but in this debate 00:00:53.500 --> 00:00:56.140 we are we are trying to figure out what's better 00:00:56.140 --> 00:01:02.260 old hammer or new hammer in the red corner discussing 00:01:02.260 --> 00:01:05.480 old hammer we have eli deadlifts for the dark 00:01:05.480 --> 00:01:09.359 gods and in the blue corner we have hal defending 00:01:09.359 --> 00:01:12.640 new hammer the amber king or is he going to be 00:01:12.640 --> 00:01:17.500 the amber defroned king we will see the duke 00:01:17.500 --> 00:01:23.659 we'll see um i will warn you that um hal has 00:01:23.659 --> 00:01:27.579 got a presentation for his part um but we're 00:01:27.579 --> 00:01:29.280 going to do this fairly i've got a i've got a 00:01:29.280 --> 00:01:34.400 little tau coin here So whoever the victor is 00:01:34.400 --> 00:01:37.500 gets to pick who goes first and who goes second. 00:01:37.599 --> 00:01:42.319 So you can either pick the Tau symbol or you 00:01:42.319 --> 00:01:45.299 can pick, I think that's Shadow Sun. So who wants 00:01:45.299 --> 00:01:48.500 Shadow Sun? Who wants Eli? I want the Tau symbol. 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:54.500 You want the Tau symbol? Three, two, one. Tau 00:01:54.500 --> 00:01:57.159 symbol. Eli, you get to pick who goes first. 00:01:57.920 --> 00:02:02.049 I'm raring, to be honest. If Hal wants to go 00:02:02.049 --> 00:02:06.069 first, then he can go first. I have prepared 00:02:06.069 --> 00:02:08.710 stuff to help me get in the mood, shall we say. 00:02:09.859 --> 00:02:12.479 Well, speaking of which, I have a video ready, 00:02:12.659 --> 00:02:16.939 apparently. So do you want me to press this when 00:02:16.939 --> 00:02:18.599 you're ready to start and you'll just go over 00:02:18.599 --> 00:02:21.960 the visuals? I'm going to voiceover. I have to 00:02:21.960 --> 00:02:24.580 do an intro for this video, by the way. So as 00:02:24.580 --> 00:02:26.080 in, like, you'll press play and I'll just start 00:02:26.080 --> 00:02:29.099 talking, to be honest. Okay. Well, you have five 00:02:29.099 --> 00:02:32.419 minutes. Let me just get my timer ready. I hope 00:02:32.419 --> 00:02:34.780 everyone's excited. Oh, there we go. Mr. Mike 00:02:34.780 --> 00:02:38.930 is excited. Fantastic. Okay. Let me just get 00:02:38.930 --> 00:02:42.449 this all set up. Your time starts, Hal, in three, 00:02:42.669 --> 00:02:48.550 two, one. Does it have music on it? No, I'm just 00:02:48.550 --> 00:02:50.870 voicing it. Because from the moment I understood 00:02:50.870 --> 00:02:54.889 the weakness of my argument, it disgusted me. 00:02:55.210 --> 00:02:59.409 I crave the strength and certainty of nostalgia. 00:03:00.229 --> 00:03:04.569 I aspire to the purity of the blessed copium. 00:03:05.129 --> 00:03:08.919 You cling to old hammer. As if it did not kill 00:03:08.919 --> 00:03:14.659 the old world. One day your crude fine cast you 00:03:14.659 --> 00:03:19.740 call goated will fail you. And you will beg my 00:03:19.740 --> 00:03:24.759 modern sculpts to save you. But I am already 00:03:24.759 --> 00:03:29.460 saved. I bring you, ladies and gentlemen, the 00:03:29.460 --> 00:03:34.159 most successful years of Warhammer 40k, boys. 00:03:34.539 --> 00:03:37.780 All right. This is the intro. No, keep playing 00:03:37.780 --> 00:03:39.159 it, keep playing it, Andy. I'm ready, I'm ready. 00:03:40.020 --> 00:03:43.000 Warhammer, go. This is my time. No one knows 00:03:43.000 --> 00:03:44.919 what the JD Vance means, thank you very much. 00:03:44.939 --> 00:03:49.460 I certainly know what the JD Vance means. And 00:03:49.460 --> 00:03:52.599 that one right there. My first argument for the 00:03:52.599 --> 00:03:57.139 Brethren core is like modern 40k art. I'm not 00:03:57.139 --> 00:03:58.879 going to let it speak for itself, to be honest, 00:03:58.960 --> 00:04:02.139 at certain points. This shit is gorgeous, my 00:04:02.139 --> 00:04:06.229 dudes. I know there's such a... heavy hit on 00:04:06.229 --> 00:04:08.689 nostalgia for certain parts of warhammer art 00:04:08.689 --> 00:04:12.030 i cannot knock that but you cannot disagree with 00:04:12.030 --> 00:04:13.830 the things that come out for the horus heresy 00:04:13.830 --> 00:04:17.970 modern 40k some modern 40k codexes eli won't 00:04:17.970 --> 00:04:20.910 disagree here the genesee the cult art is iconic 00:04:20.910 --> 00:04:24.209 we have dark angel ones that again dark angels 00:04:24.209 --> 00:04:27.449 fully return to the setting in a way that which 00:04:27.449 --> 00:04:30.649 we haven't you know appreciated before it's truly 00:04:30.649 --> 00:04:34.100 really hard to get across how They've understood 00:04:34.100 --> 00:04:37.980 the uniqueness in each faction. They've tuned 00:04:37.980 --> 00:04:43.500 in to how much they love. Even in the Total War 00:04:43.500 --> 00:04:46.720 franchise as well, everything now has an established 00:04:46.720 --> 00:04:50.180 Warhammer look and its own unique faction rather 00:04:50.180 --> 00:04:53.420 than a mismatch and jamble of things. Is it grimdark? 00:04:53.519 --> 00:04:57.639 Is it goblin green? Base is fanatic. What the 00:04:57.639 --> 00:05:00.439 hell is going on? Modern 40K has its own thing 00:05:00.439 --> 00:05:04.050 going. The law, boys. We're here for the modern 00:05:04.050 --> 00:05:06.889 law. There's no way anyone can knock the infinite 00:05:06.889 --> 00:05:10.629 and divine. It's basically resurrected from their 00:05:10.629 --> 00:05:13.829 private sleep. The Necrons are resurrected to 00:05:13.829 --> 00:05:18.170 this absolute banger of a novel. Devastation 00:05:18.170 --> 00:05:21.689 of Baal, again. You want space marines. You want 00:05:21.689 --> 00:05:24.149 tyranids. You want perhaps the best experience 00:05:24.149 --> 00:05:26.649 of both. Devastation of Baal is an absolutely 00:05:26.649 --> 00:05:30.860 soul -hitting book. Again, in the modern 40K 00:05:30.860 --> 00:05:34.800 landscape, the Dark Imperium trilogy, one we 00:05:34.800 --> 00:05:37.220 actually have, you know, a sensible human being 00:05:37.220 --> 00:05:39.800 is a book written by an adult, Mr. Guy Haley, 00:05:39.920 --> 00:05:43.160 with Robute Guillemin, Mortarion getting it. 00:05:43.220 --> 00:05:46.879 The Emperor is somehow not off the throne, but 00:05:46.879 --> 00:05:49.879 he's doing stuff. Nate Crowley here again, coming 00:05:49.879 --> 00:05:52.120 in with an absolute banger for Twice Dead King 00:05:52.120 --> 00:05:55.420 Ruin. This again, Eli, you cannot say anything 00:05:55.420 --> 00:05:58.120 about this book. This is perhaps the one, the 00:05:58.120 --> 00:06:02.100 best. warhammer books in the entire setting pretty 00:06:02.100 --> 00:06:06.040 hard to beat that and the saturnine horus heresy 00:06:06.040 --> 00:06:11.779 saturnine is pretty i don't know how is is impossible 00:06:11.779 --> 00:06:14.680 to write a better book like that in a series 00:06:14.680 --> 00:06:18.300 i honestly don't know what abner is doing lords 00:06:18.300 --> 00:06:22.920 of silence is the best chaos book ever written 00:06:22.920 --> 00:06:25.720 it is the best chaos book ever written again 00:06:25.720 --> 00:06:29.670 chris rate modern author Absolutely slap bang 00:06:29.670 --> 00:06:33.350 nailing it. And if you read that, the Beckwin 00:06:33.350 --> 00:06:36.509 series as well. If anyone has loved the Eisenhorn 00:06:36.509 --> 00:06:40.750 series from before, it's still going to go. It 00:06:40.750 --> 00:06:42.730 has the craziest stuff going on, which is the 00:06:42.730 --> 00:06:44.670 things with the yellow King. There's actual, 00:06:44.750 --> 00:06:49.209 like a proper world events, like changing scenario 00:06:49.209 --> 00:06:51.189 that we're all involved in. We're in the mystery, 00:06:51.250 --> 00:06:54.170 the elemental council. Again, Eli can't say anything 00:06:54.170 --> 00:06:57.430 because the elemental council is goated. This 00:06:57.430 --> 00:07:02.959 is like, Again, Shoshi, let Phil Kelly not touch 00:07:02.959 --> 00:07:07.639 anything. Last few bits, the models. The models 00:07:07.639 --> 00:07:10.220 are looking gorgeous, boys. The Primarch models. 00:07:10.459 --> 00:07:12.220 Are you kidding me? The World Eater's coming 00:07:12.220 --> 00:07:14.879 back. 30 seconds. This is a Primaris Marine here, 00:07:14.959 --> 00:07:17.639 and that thing is gorgeous. Look at those Space 00:07:17.639 --> 00:07:20.879 Wolf Terminators. Modern 4K Armies look nothing 00:07:20.879 --> 00:07:23.319 like the old ones. They're actually on another 00:07:23.319 --> 00:07:26.910 level. The Dark Angels releases. with even the 00:07:26.910 --> 00:07:28.889 Inner Circle companions, the Lion, the Adeptus 00:07:28.889 --> 00:07:32.769 Sororitas girls, all coming back in this brand 00:07:32.769 --> 00:07:34.990 new launch, the Necron range. They didn't have 00:07:34.990 --> 00:07:37.509 a Necron range as good as this until now. So 00:07:37.509 --> 00:07:39.389 you're welcome for that. Silent King is amazing. 00:07:39.870 --> 00:07:43.129 Even the newest brand new Terminator. All right, 00:07:44.029 --> 00:07:46.370 enough, enough. Your time is over. Your time 00:07:46.370 --> 00:07:48.610 is up. Your time is up. You can pause the video 00:07:48.610 --> 00:07:53.439 there though, Andy. Spoilers! Man brought a 10 00:07:53.439 --> 00:07:55.259 -minute video for a five -minute segment. My 00:07:55.259 --> 00:07:58.959 word. Okay. Let's go. I like the enthusiasm, 00:07:59.240 --> 00:08:01.720 I've got to be honest. It's a pretty meaty start 00:08:01.720 --> 00:08:06.639 to it. There was some points there where I was 00:08:06.639 --> 00:08:09.500 trying to... There was some fun memes. There 00:08:09.500 --> 00:08:15.259 was a bit of bribery slash pandering towards 00:08:15.259 --> 00:08:17.759 Eli with the elemental council slipped in. Not 00:08:17.759 --> 00:08:21.920 even. That stuff is good. Although... I'm going 00:08:21.920 --> 00:08:24.079 to say it right now. Lord Simons is good, but 00:08:24.079 --> 00:08:25.759 it's not the best Chaos book, in my opinion. 00:08:25.879 --> 00:08:30.399 Not quite. It was in mine. Black Legion, for 00:08:30.399 --> 00:08:34.679 me, is a better book. But... Yeah, I can see 00:08:34.679 --> 00:08:41.139 that. Okay. But that's a very strong start. Eli, 00:08:41.259 --> 00:08:46.490 the tearing off of his clothing deadlifts. Are 00:08:46.490 --> 00:08:48.750 you ready for your five minutes? Yeah, sure. 00:08:49.470 --> 00:08:51.470 And I will say, if you tear off your clothes 00:08:51.470 --> 00:08:54.409 again, I will deduct a point in my tally because 00:08:54.409 --> 00:08:59.289 you can't repeat the memes. So your time starts 00:08:59.289 --> 00:09:04.429 in three, two, one, go. Now, I don't actually 00:09:04.429 --> 00:09:06.870 have any funny bits for this episode. I did zero 00:09:06.870 --> 00:09:09.330 prep at all. I wanted to give my opponent a chance 00:09:09.330 --> 00:09:11.850 because he is truthfully arguing for something 00:09:11.850 --> 00:09:14.940 very hard. And I will say now, he's done a very 00:09:14.940 --> 00:09:17.779 good job at cherry -picking the good things and 00:09:17.779 --> 00:09:22.299 very much so leaving out the ocean of terrible 00:09:22.299 --> 00:09:26.080 things. So let's go back to old, old Warhammer. 00:09:26.279 --> 00:09:28.419 And I'm talking about 6th edition and prior. 00:09:28.759 --> 00:09:30.519 New Hammer to me is 8th edition and onwards. 00:09:30.679 --> 00:09:33.259 They were the Primaris, so I'm not sure if Primaris, 00:09:33.360 --> 00:09:36.100 if Devastation of Baal is really New Hammer personally. 00:09:36.240 --> 00:09:37.980 But let's start with this Necrons book, all right? 00:09:38.220 --> 00:09:40.100 This is really old Necrons lore, which has been 00:09:40.100 --> 00:09:43.309 changed. Up the gate, we have beautiful... beautiful 00:09:43.309 --> 00:09:46.750 artwork very cool very dark okay well let's let's 00:09:46.750 --> 00:09:47.970 hurry it up let's hurry up let's go look at the 00:09:47.970 --> 00:09:51.289 back look at this this is how to make your own 00:09:51.289 --> 00:09:55.169 homemade necron terrain your own necron board 00:09:55.169 --> 00:09:58.690 you got how did you they teach you how to convert 00:09:58.690 --> 00:10:01.629 models how to make your own terrain this is when 00:10:01.629 --> 00:10:04.850 gw really cared this was when the game was made 00:10:04.850 --> 00:10:07.830 by people who actually liked the game who actually 00:10:08.269 --> 00:10:10.370 came up making this game. The teams worked together. 00:10:10.570 --> 00:10:13.929 The lore was uniform. There was no, there was 00:10:13.929 --> 00:10:16.370 no primaris Marines. Let's say that for sure. 00:10:16.470 --> 00:10:20.490 The entire aesthetic is truly unique. It's true. 00:10:20.529 --> 00:10:22.789 Look at these dark angels, man. It's just so 00:10:22.789 --> 00:10:25.769 special. Every single model clearly had love 00:10:25.769 --> 00:10:28.389 put into it. These old elder, the old elders 00:10:28.389 --> 00:10:30.070 still hold up. And while of course the new elder 00:10:30.070 --> 00:10:33.269 are still very cool, the old stuff really holds 00:10:33.269 --> 00:10:35.370 up. Let's look in this apocalypse book. So first 00:10:35.370 --> 00:10:38.919 of all, if we go in here, we, Look at this picture, 00:10:38.980 --> 00:10:41.899 first of all. Beautiful. But let's look a little 00:10:41.899 --> 00:10:45.019 further. First, we'll see. It's telling you about 00:10:45.019 --> 00:10:47.500 how to make a narrative. Then it's saying you 00:10:47.500 --> 00:10:49.679 can use old models. You can use whatever models 00:10:49.679 --> 00:10:52.580 you would like to use in the game. You can ally 00:10:52.580 --> 00:10:54.960 with whatever you want because it's just a big 00:10:54.960 --> 00:10:57.179 giant apocalypse game. It's for fun. You can 00:10:57.179 --> 00:10:58.879 use old models. You can use out -of -date models, 00:10:59.039 --> 00:11:00.840 out -of -print models. Do you want to convert 00:11:00.840 --> 00:11:03.659 a model? Do you want to make your own Fortress 00:11:03.659 --> 00:11:06.759 of Arrogance? Boom! There's rules for that. They 00:11:06.759 --> 00:11:09.610 made rules. Or your converted Baneblade, the 00:11:09.610 --> 00:11:13.350 Fortress of Arrogance. Look at these wonderful 00:11:13.350 --> 00:11:15.230 models. They're so unique. They have so much 00:11:15.230 --> 00:11:18.129 passion and love put into them. We have Inquisitor 00:11:18.129 --> 00:11:21.730 Chromatops. It's not high on him. Truly, truly, 00:11:21.769 --> 00:11:24.529 it's beautiful. Now, that's just the corporate 00:11:24.529 --> 00:11:29.029 side of things. It was far less about major profits 00:11:29.029 --> 00:11:31.450 and more just about making something unique and 00:11:31.450 --> 00:11:33.789 inspiring that people will like. The audience 00:11:33.789 --> 00:11:36.169 were people who liked Warhammer. who were into 00:11:36.169 --> 00:11:37.809 niche things like Warhammer. They weren't trying 00:11:37.809 --> 00:11:41.190 to attract the masses of everyone in the whole 00:11:41.190 --> 00:11:43.590 world to make it as basic and sci -fi as possible 00:11:43.590 --> 00:11:46.289 so that people will buy, buy, buy, make as much 00:11:46.289 --> 00:11:48.049 profit as possible. You could buy a battle force 00:11:48.049 --> 00:11:50.570 back in the day for a hundred bucks. I could 00:11:50.570 --> 00:11:52.289 save that up with my allowance and you have half 00:11:52.289 --> 00:11:54.789 an army. Nowadays, if I want an army, if I'm 00:11:54.789 --> 00:11:57.809 little Timmy, I'm 15 years old, 12 years old. 00:11:58.009 --> 00:12:00.870 I want an army. It's like 500 to a thousand dollars. 00:12:01.230 --> 00:12:03.269 The combat patrols just keep getting worse and 00:12:03.269 --> 00:12:06.080 worse and worse. And it's just. depressing, and 00:12:06.080 --> 00:12:08.240 saddening to see. But let's get into the rules 00:12:08.240 --> 00:12:10.639 if I have time, which perhaps I do. First of 00:12:10.639 --> 00:12:13.759 all, close combat, far superior. Close combat 00:12:13.759 --> 00:12:16.360 was actually unique. It wasn't just charge and 00:12:16.360 --> 00:12:19.059 kill the person and that's it. You had weapon 00:12:19.059 --> 00:12:21.700 skill. So you would have your weapon skill. The 00:12:21.700 --> 00:12:23.600 enemy had their weapon skill. So you were dueling. 00:12:23.740 --> 00:12:26.340 You based the rule you needed off of each other's 00:12:26.340 --> 00:12:28.419 weapon skill. Let's see. Let's look at Andy's 00:12:28.419 --> 00:12:30.840 book right there. Very, very cool. Look at that. 00:12:30.860 --> 00:12:33.720 Look at that. That's so cool. Anyways. If you 00:12:33.720 --> 00:12:34.799 have a higher weapon skill than your opponent, 00:12:34.899 --> 00:12:37.000 you hit your weapon skill, you hit your opponent 00:12:37.000 --> 00:12:39.299 easier and they had a hard time hitting you because 00:12:39.299 --> 00:12:41.179 you're more skilled in close combat. It was about 00:12:41.179 --> 00:12:43.860 making a narrative back then. It wasn't about 00:12:43.860 --> 00:12:46.340 playing checkers. It wasn't playing checkers 00:12:46.340 --> 00:12:48.919 and sometimes one piece on the checkerboard flies 00:12:48.919 --> 00:12:51.659 and casts magic and automatically wins the game 00:12:51.659 --> 00:12:53.539 and they get to nerfed one week later and you 00:12:53.539 --> 00:12:55.539 have to buy a whole new army. There was no meta 00:12:55.539 --> 00:12:57.500 chasing. There was none of that. People might 00:12:57.500 --> 00:13:00.899 say roast into glasses, but that's a huge cope. 00:13:01.279 --> 00:13:03.000 just to try to live with the things nowadays. 00:13:03.240 --> 00:13:06.100 I personally still play 6th, 5th edition, and 00:13:06.100 --> 00:13:08.740 before, and I love it. Let me tell you. Close 00:13:08.740 --> 00:13:11.259 combat, again, was something special. Weapon 00:13:11.259 --> 00:13:13.139 skill was very unique, and then we have initiative. 00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:15.360 So you didn't just go first because you walked 00:13:15.360 --> 00:13:17.480 into an enemy. That's ludicrous. That doesn't 00:13:17.480 --> 00:13:19.580 make any sense, right? You go first if you're 00:13:19.580 --> 00:13:23.019 faster. If I go run towards an Eldar... The Eldar 00:13:23.019 --> 00:13:24.340 is faster than me. The Eldar is going to hit 00:13:24.340 --> 00:13:25.740 me first, and then I'm going to get the hit. 00:13:25.799 --> 00:13:28.039 Or if I have a big Lumbrane Power Fist, I got 00:13:28.039 --> 00:13:29.720 a hit last because I'm initiative one. I have 00:13:29.720 --> 00:13:32.440 a giant weapon in my hand. It only makes sense, 00:13:32.500 --> 00:13:35.039 right? It was about forging a narrative. We also 00:13:35.039 --> 00:13:37.000 have Blissey skill, so not everyone just hits 00:13:37.000 --> 00:13:39.620 on twos and threes, and there's no difference 00:13:39.620 --> 00:13:41.899 between everyone else. A really high Blissey 00:13:41.899 --> 00:13:44.899 skill made you hit on twos and then reroll into 00:13:44.899 --> 00:13:46.200 another roll depending on your Blissey skill. 00:13:46.299 --> 00:13:49.039 Oh, wait. Let's talk about armor. Armor is one 00:13:49.039 --> 00:13:51.340 of the things that we truly miss. I think everyone 00:13:51.340 --> 00:13:53.399 misses for the most part. You have armor value, 00:13:53.600 --> 00:13:55.720 front, side, back. It was easier to destroy a 00:13:55.720 --> 00:13:57.340 vehicle from the back than it was the front. 00:13:57.460 --> 00:14:00.399 Not all weapons could harm a vehicle, as makes 00:14:00.399 --> 00:14:03.500 sense. A lasgun can't harm a land raider. All 00:14:03.500 --> 00:14:07.120 right. You're done. You're done. Get out of here. 00:14:07.279 --> 00:14:11.019 So a pretty strong start. Also, I thought we 00:14:11.019 --> 00:14:13.419 needed some actual visual stimuli after Hal's 00:14:13.419 --> 00:14:15.620 bit, so I just grabbed every book I had to hand. 00:14:15.659 --> 00:14:18.919 Should be dancing in the background. Doing the 00:14:18.919 --> 00:14:22.840 gritty. So that was a pretty strong start to 00:14:22.840 --> 00:14:25.139 kick things off. Please let us know what you 00:14:25.139 --> 00:14:28.480 think in the comments thus far. But while the 00:14:28.480 --> 00:14:32.820 other two brace for the next impact of the three 00:14:32.820 --> 00:14:35.460 -minute segments, I think we should go through 00:14:35.460 --> 00:14:38.039 some donations. So let's start off with DonkeyManUSA. 00:14:43.700 --> 00:14:46.919 We should mention Hal's launched a new podcast 00:14:46.919 --> 00:14:49.940 called Lodgecast, which I'm in a bit. Colin was 00:14:49.940 --> 00:14:51.179 in the first episode. I'm going to see if we 00:14:51.179 --> 00:14:54.840 can get Eli in. Yes. It's about Elf Legion. And 00:14:54.840 --> 00:14:57.700 I loved how the first comment on the video was, 00:14:57.759 --> 00:15:00.539 Hal late. I'm like, yeah. The law crimes memes 00:15:00.539 --> 00:15:04.580 are staying. God damn it. Large one here from 00:15:04.580 --> 00:15:08.600 Gnomeus Chomsky for 20 euro. Thank you very much. 00:15:08.720 --> 00:15:10.879 Hey guys, how's everyone doing? Sadly, I cannot 00:15:10.879 --> 00:15:12.840 stay for the stream. Today was a nightmare at 00:15:12.840 --> 00:15:15.820 work. I have fever and had to work. I hope you 00:15:15.820 --> 00:15:17.840 all will have a great rest of the day and sorry 00:15:17.840 --> 00:15:20.559 that I cannot support you. It's no problem. Make 00:15:20.559 --> 00:15:24.080 sure you take care of yourself with your fever 00:15:24.080 --> 00:15:31.570 and have some soup. Donkey Man USA for $5 a do's. 00:15:31.610 --> 00:15:34.269 Chugging that Corona Fireball Zero Ultra. Thinking 00:15:34.269 --> 00:15:36.990 Hal is obviously correct. Do you guys know about 00:15:36.990 --> 00:15:41.809 this concoction? Oh, this is the Colin. It's 00:15:41.809 --> 00:15:46.809 a Colin drink, yeah. Yep. I believe next week's 00:15:46.809 --> 00:15:49.389 guest is going to be chugging, chug -a -lugging 00:15:49.389 --> 00:15:52.649 that as we do the stream. We've got a few more. 00:15:52.970 --> 00:15:54.450 Eli, do you want to read a couple and then Hal 00:15:54.450 --> 00:15:57.149 read a couple? Glock sucker. Thank you for the 00:15:57.149 --> 00:16:00.789 $4 .99. i wake up to colin's video at 2 a .m 00:16:00.789 --> 00:16:03.529 like the george lopez meme and hear him in my 00:16:03.529 --> 00:16:06.990 sleep i love you based thank well thank you very 00:16:06.990 --> 00:16:09.889 much another one for you eli and then a couple 00:16:09.889 --> 00:16:13.250 for hal colin's husband oil up and bouncing freaky 00:16:13.250 --> 00:16:16.370 style thank you for the five dollars happy spooky 00:16:16.370 --> 00:16:18.830 month horror movies is one of the only things 00:16:18.830 --> 00:16:21.929 that get me as hard as four hammer okay i'm expecting 00:16:21.929 --> 00:16:28.340 some aos death content or else i'll edge Broke's 00:16:28.340 --> 00:16:29.740 going to do that anyway. Look at me. You're going 00:16:29.740 --> 00:16:32.240 to do that anyway. We can get some Skelly boys 00:16:32.240 --> 00:16:36.059 out, maybe. Hal, would you like this one? Skarsnip's 00:16:36.059 --> 00:16:39.700 Top Gun, formerly known as Thanos. We're getting 00:16:39.700 --> 00:16:44.000 the Alter Pawns versus Scape Pawn Warhammer versus 00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:49.159 had to use the letter what's the O with the dash 00:16:49.159 --> 00:16:51.460 instead of O because YouTube is still limiting 00:16:51.460 --> 00:16:56.269 my power. Truly, man, you are. They are. It's 00:16:56.269 --> 00:16:58.789 not the damn woke mob these days. Maybe it's 00:16:58.789 --> 00:17:02.850 Chesky. Five euros. B .S. I want Hal as my lawyer 00:17:02.850 --> 00:17:05.569 in court with arguments like, Your Honor, if 00:17:05.569 --> 00:17:08.450 I may be so bold as to say the opposition's take 00:17:08.450 --> 00:17:11.930 is kind of cringe, not going to lie. I still 00:17:11.930 --> 00:17:14.750 like the, occasionally I'll just check the comments 00:17:14.750 --> 00:17:16.369 on law crimes and there'll be a comment on the 00:17:16.369 --> 00:17:18.289 one where it was just like, girthy, Your Honor. 00:17:18.410 --> 00:17:21.049 And you went, girthy? I'm like, yeah, that was 00:17:21.049 --> 00:17:24.990 a fun one. Rogel dawns Primark sized golden toilet 00:17:24.990 --> 00:17:28.970 Wow 500 rused can't watch the stream wasted as 00:17:28.970 --> 00:17:31.569 a fun I see Colin in here. It looks like the 00:17:31.569 --> 00:17:33.890 bad takes police finally got him to have a nice 00:17:33.890 --> 00:17:38.450 dream y 'all The naked possible thank you for 00:17:38.450 --> 00:17:41.390 35 czar. Hi guys who has seen Space King series 00:17:41.390 --> 00:17:43.509 from flash gets praise be to Space King I actually 00:17:43.509 --> 00:17:46.490 watched the first like 20 minutes the other day, 00:17:46.589 --> 00:17:49.509 but I haven't watched the other two Praise be 00:17:49.509 --> 00:17:52.339 to Space King I watched a little bit of Space 00:17:52.339 --> 00:17:55.539 King. I might have ordered some of their new 00:17:55.539 --> 00:17:58.460 merch as well. And I have the hate manga hoodie. 00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:01.799 Tell them about the per capita. I'm getting to 00:18:01.799 --> 00:18:07.700 it. Very funny. 9 .99. If I only caught a live 00:18:07.700 --> 00:18:10.539 stream with the guys, shame that cologne is missing 00:18:10.539 --> 00:18:13.319 to make up the full roster. But here are some 00:18:13.319 --> 00:18:15.400 Imperial credits to show my appreciation. Thank 00:18:15.400 --> 00:18:18.299 you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Last one for 00:18:18.299 --> 00:18:22.359 now. The dank apostle for 14 czar where we're 00:18:22.359 --> 00:18:25.420 going. We won't need eyes to see. Good quote. 00:18:25.599 --> 00:18:29.480 Good quote. Thank you everyone for your donations. 00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:34.369 Now. Let me just alter my timer. We've got a 00:18:34.369 --> 00:18:36.910 three -minute segment. Now, Hal, question for 00:18:36.910 --> 00:18:40.230 you. There's five minutes left of this video, 00:18:40.430 --> 00:18:44.410 but you've only got three minutes. Andy, could 00:18:44.410 --> 00:18:48.470 you please get the video up again and go to 5 00:18:48.470 --> 00:18:51.329 minutes 58 and pause it there, please? Do you 00:18:51.329 --> 00:18:54.329 have any questions for us, Andy, before we go 00:18:54.329 --> 00:18:57.289 on to the next section? Isn't that a thing we 00:18:57.289 --> 00:19:01.710 usually do? 5 minutes 58. Okay, I thought I'd 00:19:01.710 --> 00:19:04.309 get this ready first. Okay, so before we start 00:19:04.309 --> 00:19:09.450 this round, Hal, you're doing your very best 00:19:09.450 --> 00:19:16.029 to absolutely proverbially deep throat how good 00:19:16.029 --> 00:19:19.230 the lore books are these days. But what are you 00:19:19.230 --> 00:19:21.069 going to say to the people who will say, well, 00:19:21.109 --> 00:19:23.529 you know what? It's losing its grim darkness. 00:19:23.690 --> 00:19:27.210 It's losing its kind of gothic tone. What are 00:19:27.210 --> 00:19:28.710 you going to say about that? What are you going 00:19:28.710 --> 00:19:32.279 to say about that, eh? I think it's the thing 00:19:32.279 --> 00:19:36.180 of people before will say it was only grimdark 00:19:36.180 --> 00:19:39.700 and therefore you, again, you were only getting 00:19:39.700 --> 00:19:42.440 grimdark before, whereas now you are getting 00:19:42.440 --> 00:19:45.220 grimdark and you are getting other things. So 00:19:45.220 --> 00:19:47.640 therefore, from that perspective, it seems like 00:19:47.640 --> 00:19:50.839 it's less grimdark. But may I remind you. warhammer 00:19:50.839 --> 00:19:53.500 wasn't always grimdark if it's if we're including 00:19:53.500 --> 00:19:56.240 all the editions before i'm pretty sure there 00:19:56.240 --> 00:19:59.720 was some real goofy cartoon looking eras as well 00:19:59.720 --> 00:20:02.039 so when people complain about there's not a grimdark 00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:06.140 uh go read some of the newer books you'll find 00:20:06.140 --> 00:20:09.519 it it's not really hard to find and to be fair 00:20:09.519 --> 00:20:12.500 just on a personal note if you've read some of 00:20:12.500 --> 00:20:15.240 the more grimdark story at some point there's 00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:19.539 a limit of grimdark and it's there's the demonculaba 00:20:20.160 --> 00:20:22.900 You've heard about the Demonculaba and nothing's 00:20:22.900 --> 00:20:25.579 ever going to be as grim, dark as that. So therefore 00:20:25.579 --> 00:20:28.819 everything after that doesn't seem grim, dark 00:20:28.819 --> 00:20:31.339 because your perspective has changed, but that 00:20:31.339 --> 00:20:33.380 doesn't mean the other thing. The world is still 00:20:33.380 --> 00:20:37.960 grim, dark. It's still gritty, horrible. And 00:20:37.960 --> 00:20:40.299 then, but they also expand more to that. If it 00:20:40.299 --> 00:20:42.559 was only ever going to be grim, dark, we'd never 00:20:42.559 --> 00:20:45.599 have gotten the infinite and divine, which is 00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:49.509 again, we never got brutal cunning. with the 00:20:49.509 --> 00:20:51.970 orc books we never would have gotten other things 00:20:51.970 --> 00:20:55.869 so it's yeah maybe it's less grim dark but that's 00:20:55.869 --> 00:20:58.210 because it's expanding into other genres that 00:20:58.210 --> 00:21:01.569 still is good and that has in fact made it to 00:21:01.569 --> 00:21:03.990 some of the best books in the series all right 00:21:03.990 --> 00:21:09.130 uh eli um to to quote uh the the talking points 00:21:09.130 --> 00:21:11.410 of the day in the discourse i got a gatekeep 00:21:11.410 --> 00:21:15.519 girl boss goon max uh surely Surely Old Hammer 00:21:15.519 --> 00:21:17.880 is always the best because it was always perfect 00:21:17.880 --> 00:21:20.400 and there was never any problems with it. But 00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:24.000 I will say, if we can't make anything new and 00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:26.460 change things and innovate, then what's the point? 00:21:28.259 --> 00:21:32.359 What do you say to that? We need New Warhammer 00:21:32.359 --> 00:21:35.359 because it's better to try stuff like Hal said, 00:21:35.539 --> 00:21:39.799 like infinite and divine. There's nothing wrong 00:21:39.799 --> 00:21:42.849 with advancing and making new things. In fact, 00:21:42.950 --> 00:21:46.569 around the early 2000s, mid -2000s was when GW 00:21:46.569 --> 00:21:49.309 really found its stride. If you compare the OG 00:21:49.309 --> 00:21:52.690 Dark Eldar to the mid -2000s Dark Eldar, it's 00:21:52.690 --> 00:21:55.490 a vast difference, extremely nice. All the new 00:21:55.490 --> 00:21:57.430 models that came out with those days were very 00:21:57.430 --> 00:22:02.230 good. Making new things isn't a bad thing. Making 00:22:02.230 --> 00:22:05.029 new things that are bad is when it becomes a 00:22:05.029 --> 00:22:07.470 bad thing. If you're making new things and they're 00:22:07.470 --> 00:22:09.829 not actually improving or adding, and in fact, 00:22:09.829 --> 00:22:12.000 if they're taking away... then why bother making 00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:14.140 that thing at all? If it's only for profits, 00:22:14.279 --> 00:22:17.299 if there's no love put into it, if we have Inquisir 00:22:17.299 --> 00:22:20.579 Cotias turning into now Inquisir Cotias, that's 00:22:20.579 --> 00:22:22.859 a new thing. And I think the entire community 00:22:22.859 --> 00:22:25.759 agrees that it is not better. New does not always 00:22:25.759 --> 00:22:28.519 mean better. New always meaning better is a very 00:22:28.519 --> 00:22:33.299 poor path of logic used by very unintelligent 00:22:33.299 --> 00:22:35.559 people. I knew you were going to bring him up. 00:22:36.059 --> 00:22:41.759 You should say. A year ago, we did a stream ranking 00:22:41.759 --> 00:22:45.819 other ugly models, and they are all from early 00:22:45.819 --> 00:22:49.259 Warhammer. They were literally like 99 % from 00:22:49.259 --> 00:22:52.500 early Warhammer. So between us both, there is 00:22:52.500 --> 00:22:57.839 duds. But I will say, it's excusable to have 00:22:57.839 --> 00:23:00.839 duds when you're starting out as a company, when 00:23:00.839 --> 00:23:03.920 you're in your earlier days, and you're in the 00:23:03.920 --> 00:23:06.789 90s, and the model making stuff is not. You know, 00:23:06.789 --> 00:23:08.670 completely upscale. Because like I said, if you 00:23:08.670 --> 00:23:10.970 look in the early 2000s, pretty much everything 00:23:10.970 --> 00:23:13.049 they made in those times, there were no duds. 00:23:13.170 --> 00:23:16.230 They hit after hit after hit. Everything was 00:23:16.230 --> 00:23:19.069 really cool back then. Obviously, the first edition 00:23:19.069 --> 00:23:21.430 things were very goofy, but then the aesthetic 00:23:21.430 --> 00:23:25.529 changed a little bit. Now, GW is probably the 00:23:25.529 --> 00:23:29.230 richest company for games, maybe other than Wizards 00:23:29.230 --> 00:23:30.730 of the Coast, I would imagine, and Magic the 00:23:30.730 --> 00:23:35.430 Gathering. They have nearly unlimited resources. 00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:38.579 and they have decades of experience, they truly 00:23:38.579 --> 00:23:43.880 have no excuse to make anything bad ever. Was 00:23:43.880 --> 00:23:45.900 that a shot fired at the sanguinary guard? Giving 00:23:45.900 --> 00:23:50.119 them any leeway is giving them far too much credit 00:23:50.119 --> 00:23:52.160 than they deserve. As I said, they have unlimited 00:23:52.160 --> 00:23:55.299 resources to make the best things possible. And 00:23:55.299 --> 00:23:57.240 if they come with anything lower than average, 00:23:57.440 --> 00:24:02.450 that is unexcusable. But, counterpoint. The original 00:24:02.450 --> 00:24:04.589 Nagash miniature was perfection. We should have 00:24:04.589 --> 00:24:05.970 stopped there. We should have said, pack it in, 00:24:06.009 --> 00:24:09.349 boys. Best thing ever made. True and real. True 00:24:09.349 --> 00:24:13.990 and real. Now, can't get better than that. Funny, 00:24:14.029 --> 00:24:18.930 scrunkly boy. Hal, I have put the video at 5 00:24:18.930 --> 00:24:21.970 .58. Let me know when you're ready for your three 00:24:21.970 --> 00:24:24.869 minutes, and I will count you in. I am ready. 00:24:26.289 --> 00:24:31.660 Okay. Your time begins in three, two... One fight. 00:24:32.980 --> 00:24:35.259 Well, we're starting it. As Eli said, there's 00:24:35.259 --> 00:24:37.599 no such thing as imperfection and, you know, 00:24:37.619 --> 00:24:40.900 not bangers. But God forbid they introduce flyers 00:24:40.900 --> 00:24:43.559 into the game at this point. You're right, you 00:24:43.559 --> 00:24:45.759 know, not in the later stuff, in the older things 00:24:45.759 --> 00:24:48.920 here. And forever since, everyone has basically 00:24:48.920 --> 00:24:52.279 hated these things. Not to mention, yeah, they 00:24:52.279 --> 00:24:54.740 had some not bangers at this time as well. The 00:24:54.740 --> 00:24:58.150 Nick Kime Salamanders trilogy is... you know 00:24:58.150 --> 00:25:01.730 you've got to own that that's of that era paul 00:25:01.730 --> 00:25:03.710 he's still around unfortunately but he's not 00:25:03.710 --> 00:25:06.430 producing things as bad as the salamander trilogy 00:25:06.430 --> 00:25:10.130 which is literally torture for people uh i can't 00:25:10.130 --> 00:25:13.210 i literally i will never go near these things 00:25:13.210 --> 00:25:16.720 it is punishing and again like you said no excuse 00:25:16.720 --> 00:25:19.359 for not having banning bangers well in the olden 00:25:19.359 --> 00:25:21.799 days there's plenty of not bangers again here 00:25:21.799 --> 00:25:25.859 we go eli's favorite author mr gav thought producing 00:25:25.859 --> 00:25:30.380 perhaps another series of what is not my favorite 00:25:30.380 --> 00:25:35.400 author move on he is producing boring book like 00:25:35.400 --> 00:25:39.470 this he ruins eldar there we go Eldar was ruined 00:25:39.470 --> 00:25:42.849 long before anything in modern 40K had a touch 00:25:42.849 --> 00:25:45.690 on it. You know, so you can't really be like, 00:25:45.789 --> 00:25:47.410 oh, all the modern stuff is new. No, they were 00:25:47.410 --> 00:25:49.130 ruining stuff back then. You just forget about 00:25:49.130 --> 00:25:50.990 it. That's the thing. Everyone remembers only 00:25:50.990 --> 00:25:52.970 the hits and the good songs. They don't remember 00:25:52.970 --> 00:25:54.970 all the terrible songs that came out later, do 00:25:54.970 --> 00:25:57.789 they? You know, nostalgia glasses truly be a 00:25:57.789 --> 00:26:02.029 lot. I'll say for playing modern 40K, it is so 00:26:02.029 --> 00:26:04.990 much strength that it is streamlined. I cannot 00:26:04.990 --> 00:26:08.019 explain, like, first of all, starting off. I 00:26:08.019 --> 00:26:11.640 can play my new gorgeous models in plastic, not 00:26:11.640 --> 00:26:15.640 fine cast. I can play them into... I can play 00:26:15.640 --> 00:26:18.339 my Ultramen or whatever I want to pick. I can 00:26:18.339 --> 00:26:20.960 play that into different attachment styles. I'm 00:26:20.960 --> 00:26:24.099 not beholden to playing one style. My army has 00:26:24.099 --> 00:26:27.539 so much more different things I can do with it. 00:26:27.619 --> 00:26:29.519 Whereas before, you want to play a certain attachment, 00:26:29.680 --> 00:26:31.859 you're locked into it. That's the best you can 00:26:31.859 --> 00:26:34.460 do. You can play it this way, that way. Or, you 00:26:34.460 --> 00:26:36.000 know, want to make a whole new army for a different 00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:38.119 range? No, I can do my thing and play it in different 00:26:38.119 --> 00:26:40.779 times. It's amazing. And it's using as before, 00:26:40.900 --> 00:26:43.400 like the restaurant analogy. It's like having 00:26:43.400 --> 00:26:47.680 a menu that offered a crazy unique menu, but 00:26:47.680 --> 00:26:49.799 it was just too much and the restaurant was losing 00:26:49.799 --> 00:26:52.480 financially. So therefore, if you streamline 00:26:52.480 --> 00:26:55.759 it down, your core dishes in the restaurant stand 00:26:55.759 --> 00:26:58.839 out way, way stronger and the restaurant is healthy 00:26:58.839 --> 00:27:02.359 again. Balance. It's a thing now. They actually 00:27:02.359 --> 00:27:04.900 have balance in the game because they regularly 00:27:04.900 --> 00:27:07.319 update the game and balance it to the point where 00:27:07.319 --> 00:27:09.839 no one feels like they're losing out. And as 00:27:09.839 --> 00:27:14.480 a last point, my friend group has literally doubled 00:27:14.480 --> 00:27:18.440 because of 10th edition. You cannot get close 00:27:18.440 --> 00:27:20.900 to the amount of new people enjoying the hobby. 00:27:21.000 --> 00:27:23.660 First of all, on our own channel too, we literally 00:27:23.660 --> 00:27:27.880 need these new people to bring life into the 00:27:27.880 --> 00:27:30.529 hobby that was going to die at that time. Thank 00:27:30.529 --> 00:27:34.930 God for the modern 40 go. You're done, fella. 00:27:35.089 --> 00:27:37.009 You're done. Although I've got to say that pink 00:27:37.009 --> 00:27:39.670 tank was spectacular. I've never seen that before. 00:27:39.849 --> 00:27:42.309 That was amazing. Empress children. Yeah, Empress 00:27:42.309 --> 00:27:45.890 children. And like neon pink tank. Imagine dying 00:27:45.890 --> 00:27:48.190 from that. That'd be embarrassing. But yeah, 00:27:48.250 --> 00:27:50.670 so that was quite a sterling effort from Hal. 00:27:51.470 --> 00:27:54.630 And it looks like that. Oh, God. I've just I've 00:27:54.630 --> 00:27:57.900 just seen your video to be like, oh. Is there 00:27:57.900 --> 00:27:59.819 any more? And there is, but it's just a still 00:27:59.819 --> 00:28:02.019 image and it's very cursed. It's for the last 00:28:02.019 --> 00:28:06.720 minute. Yeah, I'm assuming that's the case. So 00:28:06.720 --> 00:28:11.119 with that said, we're going to start with you, 00:28:11.180 --> 00:28:13.400 Eli. You've got three minutes. Are you ready? 00:28:13.500 --> 00:28:18.180 Are you ready? Aye, aye, Captain. Then three, 00:28:18.359 --> 00:28:24.180 two, one. It's time. Now I feel my opponent. 00:28:26.170 --> 00:28:28.569 A lot of his points actually can be deflected 00:28:28.569 --> 00:28:32.069 right back at him. Firstly, I can play with as 00:28:32.069 --> 00:28:34.349 many new models as I want. Well, that is true. 00:28:34.890 --> 00:28:37.349 Unfortunately, you have to sacrifice about half 00:28:37.349 --> 00:28:39.109 your model range if you're playing anything other 00:28:39.109 --> 00:28:41.470 than Space Marines. We can kind of tell the opponent 00:28:41.470 --> 00:28:44.470 here enjoys Space Marine factions, Space Marine 00:28:44.470 --> 00:28:46.849 lore, Space Marine things in general. Most of 00:28:46.849 --> 00:28:48.529 his arguments revolve around Space Marine lore 00:28:48.529 --> 00:28:50.549 and Space Marine armies. If you're playing something 00:28:50.549 --> 00:28:53.890 like the Dark Eldar, you have lost about 70%. 00:28:54.319 --> 00:28:57.500 of your units in the last few years back in the 00:28:57.500 --> 00:29:00.500 day this was not an issue you might lose a character 00:29:00.500 --> 00:29:03.200 and gain a character but that didn't happen you 00:29:03.200 --> 00:29:04.960 weren't losing units every edition you were not 00:29:04.960 --> 00:29:07.380 losing characters there was no legends rules 00:29:07.380 --> 00:29:10.420 made in the early editions were compatible with 00:29:10.420 --> 00:29:12.019 the new editions so even if you're playing casual 00:29:12.019 --> 00:29:14.039 games it was easy to play with other characters 00:29:14.039 --> 00:29:17.200 now there's plenty of new lore that is good and 00:29:17.200 --> 00:29:20.839 there is plenty of old lore that is bad but unfortunately 00:29:20.839 --> 00:29:23.829 again if you're a space frame player That's not 00:29:23.829 --> 00:29:26.589 an issue. If you're someone else, if you like 00:29:26.589 --> 00:29:29.269 Eldar, yeah, the Eldar lore sucked, but now it 00:29:29.269 --> 00:29:33.210 really sucks. It's about as terrible as it could 00:29:33.210 --> 00:29:36.529 have possibly ever been. A lot of new lore is 00:29:36.529 --> 00:29:39.869 just horrendous. Ever since Phil Kelly took Reigns 00:29:39.869 --> 00:29:43.009 of the Tau, it's been desperate, humiliating, 00:29:43.089 --> 00:29:46.150 horrible. Elemental Council is amazing. It's 00:29:46.150 --> 00:29:48.130 great. There's one good book, though, out of 00:29:48.130 --> 00:29:50.690 the last eight or so that were just terrible. 00:29:51.960 --> 00:29:55.279 Let's look at this rulebook. Let's look at the 00:29:55.279 --> 00:29:59.299 pure love and joy one could get from this rulebook. 00:29:59.319 --> 00:30:00.960 It's beautiful. And by the way, I looked through 00:30:00.960 --> 00:30:02.819 the other rulebook and it's nothing like this. 00:30:03.640 --> 00:30:05.559 This whole rulebook will tell you about forging 00:30:05.559 --> 00:30:08.700 a narrative, having fun with your friends, enjoying 00:30:08.700 --> 00:30:10.759 your time. There's unique missions. There's unique 00:30:10.759 --> 00:30:15.019 ways to play. There's no bloat. And yeah, there's 00:30:15.019 --> 00:30:17.240 none of that. Now, we also talk about a streamlined 00:30:17.240 --> 00:30:20.200 game. The game is not simple. The game is very 00:30:20.200 --> 00:30:23.009 simple. skeleton mechanics but other than that 00:30:23.009 --> 00:30:26.029 it is convoluted it is just piss poor annoying 00:30:26.029 --> 00:30:28.970 terrain rules are extremely hard to understand 00:30:28.970 --> 00:30:31.509 there's no logic in half of the rules a lot of 00:30:31.509 --> 00:30:34.750 the rules are very bland if nothing else it's 00:30:34.750 --> 00:30:36.650 very tailored for competitive play whereas old 00:30:36.650 --> 00:30:39.890 warhammer was tailored for fun lore play the 00:30:39.890 --> 00:30:42.190 only times you ever really had issues in with 00:30:42.190 --> 00:30:44.410 balance is if you were playing against jerks 00:30:44.410 --> 00:30:47.609 pretty much every old argument against old hammer 00:30:48.220 --> 00:30:50.039 Only applies if you're playing against people 00:30:50.039 --> 00:30:52.160 who are not kind to people who are not playing 00:30:52.160 --> 00:30:55.160 for fun. If you're playing a friendly game, the 00:30:55.160 --> 00:30:57.480 game will be fun. Look at that. Captain Badrum. 00:30:57.960 --> 00:31:01.640 Has there ever been anything better? Anyways, 00:31:01.740 --> 00:31:05.079 there is. The rules, well, they may be simplified, 00:31:05.259 --> 00:31:08.269 although not really. They're not. They're convoluted 00:31:08.269 --> 00:31:11.490 and annoying and balanced. Can we look back to 00:31:11.490 --> 00:31:14.089 the 75 % demons win rate? Can we look at the 00:31:14.089 --> 00:31:17.349 constant data slate updates? There's none of 00:31:17.349 --> 00:31:19.769 that. The community helped balance the game at 00:31:19.769 --> 00:31:21.230 tournaments. Things were banned if they were 00:31:21.230 --> 00:31:23.630 OP. You're done. You're done. You're done. You're 00:31:23.630 --> 00:31:28.490 done. Right. So my phone fell on the floor. Sorry, 00:31:28.529 --> 00:31:32.329 fellas. There were some interesting points there. 00:31:32.589 --> 00:31:37.920 There was overview. I guess, Hal, your argument 00:31:37.920 --> 00:31:41.460 was that we have rose -tinted glasses for Old 00:31:41.460 --> 00:31:44.720 Hammer. There were duds in the lore. There were 00:31:44.720 --> 00:31:47.339 duds with miniatures. Therefore, you can't blame 00:31:47.339 --> 00:31:49.900 all the woes on Warhammer as it is right now 00:31:49.900 --> 00:31:51.839 on the new stuff because the old stuff was also 00:31:51.839 --> 00:31:54.740 bad at times. And Eli, I suppose your overview 00:31:54.740 --> 00:31:59.940 was that while it was in its more nascent era... 00:32:00.250 --> 00:32:01.930 you have a bit more leeway to make bad stuff, 00:32:01.990 --> 00:32:04.869 but also it's not as bad as it is now with things 00:32:04.869 --> 00:32:08.509 like the Eldar lore, the Tao lore. Mainly, I 00:32:08.509 --> 00:32:10.829 assume, is it fair to say that your gripes are 00:32:10.829 --> 00:32:12.569 more about the lore than the miniatures, Eli? 00:32:13.549 --> 00:32:16.369 No, it's both. Although I will say now GW is 00:32:16.369 --> 00:32:19.549 finding their stride again. It's been better 00:32:19.549 --> 00:32:21.930 this last year, but I think we can all agree 00:32:21.930 --> 00:32:27.000 that prior to this, around 2018, to 2022, 2023, 00:32:27.359 --> 00:32:30.319 we were really in the dark ages of models. There 00:32:30.319 --> 00:32:32.119 were a few good ones, a few Primarchs that looked 00:32:32.119 --> 00:32:35.539 good, but I think the majority of the community 00:32:35.539 --> 00:32:38.339 highly disliked the Primaris. It was such a ridiculous 00:32:38.339 --> 00:32:41.799 lore change, and the models, in my opinion, look 00:32:41.799 --> 00:32:46.000 quite unbelievably stupid. They are generic. 00:32:46.140 --> 00:32:49.799 They're boring, basic sci -fi warrior. Go play 00:32:49.799 --> 00:32:51.839 Starcraft or something. You can get the exact 00:32:51.839 --> 00:32:53.779 same thing. There's nothing more and more about 00:32:53.779 --> 00:32:56.240 these models. I've seen some people saying that 00:32:56.240 --> 00:33:00.240 recently GW has made them units. There's less 00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:02.380 of an emphasis on, oh, they're Primaris. They're 00:33:02.380 --> 00:33:04.599 trying to kind of blur the lines between first 00:33:04.599 --> 00:33:06.640 born. That's the thing. We are losing Primaris 00:33:06.640 --> 00:33:09.579 again in this Machiavellian scheme to phase out 00:33:09.579 --> 00:33:12.619 Primaris and get in true scale, regular, normal 00:33:12.619 --> 00:33:14.920 Marines again. So, oh, you have to sell all your 00:33:14.920 --> 00:33:17.759 Primaris and buy all these new Marines now. Sorry. 00:33:18.640 --> 00:33:22.099 He's incorrect on this. It's not selling Primaris. 00:33:22.359 --> 00:33:24.880 They no longer have the keyword because they 00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:26.519 are just Space Marines. But they're updating 00:33:26.519 --> 00:33:29.640 all of these units now. Isn't that what we wanted, 00:33:29.700 --> 00:33:32.759 though? Yes, but in olden days, you could play 00:33:32.759 --> 00:33:34.400 with those old units. Nowadays, they're going 00:33:34.400 --> 00:33:36.799 to say, these units are legends. You have to 00:33:36.799 --> 00:33:39.180 buy this new Space Marine unit. You don't have 00:33:39.180 --> 00:33:41.819 to do anything. You don't have to, but that's 00:33:41.819 --> 00:33:45.359 their business model, is to exploit you. To buy 00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:48.970 plastic units. There's a pertinent question I 00:33:48.970 --> 00:33:52.269 want to ask your opinions on from your particular 00:33:52.269 --> 00:33:55.029 perspectives. One is someone who is on the old 00:33:55.029 --> 00:33:57.529 hammer, one who's on the new hammer. I bought 00:33:57.529 --> 00:34:02.769 this on pre -order, got here today. There's one 00:34:02.769 --> 00:34:04.769 miniature that I think has been quite divisive 00:34:04.769 --> 00:34:08.289 in the last week or so. Starting with Hal, because 00:34:08.289 --> 00:34:12.309 Eli just had a chat. What about the recent redo 00:34:12.309 --> 00:34:16.670 of this fella? Did we really need another one? 00:34:17.480 --> 00:34:21.059 Calgar previously had two options before as well. 00:34:21.179 --> 00:34:23.400 So he actually had the option of being in Terminator 00:34:23.400 --> 00:34:27.440 armor. So this is almost like it's not even new 00:34:27.440 --> 00:34:32.719 news, which I'm, again, it's that thing of if 00:34:32.719 --> 00:34:36.329 I own one in front of me, I'm going to. make 00:34:36.329 --> 00:34:39.469 that bad boy look so fucking sexy at the end 00:34:39.469 --> 00:34:42.110 of it i'm not upset if like particularly again 00:34:42.110 --> 00:34:44.769 it's different because if we're warhammer lore 00:34:44.769 --> 00:34:47.489 youtubers we're consuming it more than the average 00:34:47.489 --> 00:34:51.590 person the number one most played army is space 00:34:51.590 --> 00:34:54.630 marines it will much to eli's probably wounded 00:34:54.630 --> 00:34:59.210 soul people are here for space marines so therefore 00:34:59.210 --> 00:35:03.320 when you get good sexy good plastic in scale 00:35:03.320 --> 00:35:05.480 that's the thing you like like so many you're 00:35:05.480 --> 00:35:08.340 like oh my models are gone they are fine cast 00:35:08.340 --> 00:35:11.260 or like it's just you know it why is why is my 00:35:11.260 --> 00:35:13.960 model like bend in the bloody wind or the sun 00:35:13.960 --> 00:35:16.059 you know i mean like you can't compete with the 00:35:16.059 --> 00:35:18.639 quality of what we have in terms of even if you 00:35:18.639 --> 00:35:21.360 went from like push fit or to this kind of current 00:35:21.360 --> 00:35:24.480 things we have now it's just not on the same 00:35:24.480 --> 00:35:28.059 scale and again most people are space marine 00:35:28.059 --> 00:35:31.809 players people want space rings me and andy like 00:35:31.809 --> 00:35:34.789 horrors heresy we like space marines people want 00:35:34.789 --> 00:35:37.250 their space marines so when someone gets a new 00:35:37.250 --> 00:35:40.329 sexy space marine and for more of their stuff 00:35:40.329 --> 00:35:42.650 they're not gonna be upset like eli are they 00:35:42.650 --> 00:35:45.849 because eli is just over here gagging for some 00:35:45.849 --> 00:35:48.610 necrons or other things which by the way the 00:35:48.610 --> 00:35:52.849 new necron range gorgeous uh I don't think he 00:35:52.849 --> 00:35:55.590 complained when that happened or the new silent, 00:35:55.650 --> 00:35:58.230 you know, silent King happened when the new Catan 00:35:58.230 --> 00:36:00.210 shards are coming out. I don't think he complains 00:36:00.210 --> 00:36:02.789 then either. So I don't think anyone's upset. 00:36:03.050 --> 00:36:04.730 You know what I mean? Like it's, it's a very 00:36:04.730 --> 00:36:08.989 in, in, in community thing of like someone, someone's 00:36:08.989 --> 00:36:11.289 upset about something. Whereas the majority of 00:36:11.289 --> 00:36:14.570 the entire world is like, yay. you know what 00:36:14.570 --> 00:36:16.590 I mean like the Warhammer community complains 00:36:16.590 --> 00:36:19.389 about quite a lot of things many valid but it 00:36:19.389 --> 00:36:22.150 is really weird to explain to people by the way 00:36:22.150 --> 00:36:25.489 my plastic like my little girly plastic you know 00:36:25.489 --> 00:36:28.630 dollies that I play with and I got upset about 00:36:28.630 --> 00:36:32.050 something well is it fair to say that not your 00:36:32.050 --> 00:36:34.710 entire argument but a part of it is that we've 00:36:34.710 --> 00:36:37.090 had it so good so many times people need to stop 00:36:37.090 --> 00:36:38.849 whinging as much because we've had so many good 00:36:38.849 --> 00:36:42.139 miniatures is that Is that a fair point? It will 00:36:42.139 --> 00:36:45.219 be that. And I will say, as well as my last point, 00:36:45.800 --> 00:36:49.659 Games Workshop, they, from what we know, particularly 00:36:49.659 --> 00:36:52.940 as well from insiders, they were very much focused 00:36:52.940 --> 00:36:55.280 on making the Warhammer core community happy 00:36:55.280 --> 00:36:58.340 for many years in the early days. It was killing 00:36:58.340 --> 00:37:01.619 them. It literally on their balance sheet was 00:37:01.619 --> 00:37:04.039 killing them. And at one point, Warhammer was 00:37:04.039 --> 00:37:07.449 about to go away. at some point you have to realize 00:37:07.449 --> 00:37:10.090 like when you guys make a video or you make something 00:37:10.090 --> 00:37:12.530 like that you make something that you think people 00:37:12.530 --> 00:37:15.389 not just your friends but it's like people are 00:37:15.389 --> 00:37:18.250 gonna enjoy and they've not lost it so people 00:37:18.250 --> 00:37:20.389 will always say you know i mean any band who 00:37:20.389 --> 00:37:22.309 releases a new album someone says they have a 00:37:22.309 --> 00:37:24.690 soul or anything like yeah you know i mean anything 00:37:24.690 --> 00:37:27.909 time you do you know anytime something new comes 00:37:27.909 --> 00:37:29.869 out some people hate the new stuff and they'd 00:37:29.869 --> 00:37:35.000 like the old stuff that's fine I love the band 00:37:35.000 --> 00:37:36.880 Smashing Pumpkins, but I haven't listened to 00:37:36.880 --> 00:37:38.519 the last 10 albums they've done because I just 00:37:38.519 --> 00:37:41.820 like Siren Machine. I'm that guy. And I know 00:37:41.820 --> 00:37:44.659 Billy Corgan is annoyed at people like me who 00:37:44.659 --> 00:37:46.119 are just like, can you just play today again? 00:37:46.380 --> 00:37:48.539 No, I want to make new music. I'm like, but I 00:37:48.539 --> 00:37:50.920 don't care about the new music. I want the old 00:37:50.920 --> 00:37:53.320 stuff. We all are like that for many things, 00:37:53.460 --> 00:37:57.440 but as in like Eli just said, he likes the new 00:37:57.440 --> 00:38:00.949 miniature stuff that's come out. You know what 00:38:00.949 --> 00:38:03.710 I mean? We're still enjoying. We're still cooking. 00:38:03.909 --> 00:38:05.869 We're still enjoying the new stuff. It's good. 00:38:06.210 --> 00:38:08.469 Well, Eli, what's your opinion on the Kalgar 00:38:08.469 --> 00:38:11.809 conundrum where he's got five minis now? I like 00:38:11.809 --> 00:38:15.289 Kalgar. I never said I was unhappy that we're 00:38:15.289 --> 00:38:16.989 getting new Space Marines. I never said that. 00:38:17.530 --> 00:38:19.710 I like getting new Space Marines. I like new 00:38:19.710 --> 00:38:22.849 models. I am upset that we're losing Xenos models. 00:38:23.050 --> 00:38:25.110 That's what I am upset for. That does not mean 00:38:25.110 --> 00:38:27.489 I'm upset that we're getting new Space Marines. 00:38:27.530 --> 00:38:30.570 That is a poor path of logic. and one that is 00:38:30.570 --> 00:38:34.630 commonly used by a lot of people. Now, I'm not 00:38:34.630 --> 00:38:37.090 displeased about Space Marines. In fact, I quite 00:38:37.090 --> 00:38:39.469 like the new Calgar model. I quite hated the 00:38:39.469 --> 00:38:41.170 Gravis Armor one because I think Gravis Armor 00:38:41.170 --> 00:38:44.070 looks incredibly stupid. So I'm very glad that 00:38:44.070 --> 00:38:46.690 he has a new model. I still think the 2005 one 00:38:46.690 --> 00:38:49.610 is the coolest, mariniest Calgar ever. I think 00:38:49.610 --> 00:38:51.170 that was kind of what... Everyone's saying that. 00:38:51.250 --> 00:38:52.889 I think that was really when... Why change perfection? 00:38:53.389 --> 00:38:56.369 I think that was really when GW were really getting 00:38:56.369 --> 00:38:58.409 into their modeling stuff. Models before 2000 00:38:58.409 --> 00:39:01.829 were... Very hit or miss models between 2000 00:39:01.829 --> 00:39:06.190 and 2016 or whatever were very beautiful. Yeah, 00:39:06.210 --> 00:39:08.170 I'm not displeased about getting new models. 00:39:08.630 --> 00:39:11.349 I am displeased about losing models and not being 00:39:11.349 --> 00:39:15.349 able to play with half of my army in a tabletop 00:39:15.349 --> 00:39:17.289 game and then not getting a replacement model. 00:39:17.409 --> 00:39:19.750 Because Mr. Space Marine here, yeah, he can say, 00:39:19.869 --> 00:39:21.369 yeah, but you're getting all these new models. 00:39:21.409 --> 00:39:24.769 Well, no, I'm not. I just lost half my data sheets 00:39:24.769 --> 00:39:26.630 and I have not been given a replacement model. 00:39:27.409 --> 00:39:29.730 So what am I supposed to do? nothing if it's 00:39:29.730 --> 00:39:32.210 half the data sheets of things that people don't 00:39:32.210 --> 00:39:34.829 own because they're quite rare like if it's the 00:39:34.829 --> 00:39:37.889 extreme case of it like i'm i wasn't upset to 00:39:37.889 --> 00:39:40.889 lose rand like if my miniatures are looking quite 00:39:40.889 --> 00:39:44.989 old and decrepit i didn't even buy the new miniature 00:39:44.989 --> 00:39:49.289 i have fat grey knight things that are not grey 00:39:49.289 --> 00:39:52.170 knights because i just they're so outdated and 00:39:52.170 --> 00:39:56.710 old That's the thing. What was the thing we streamed? 00:39:56.710 --> 00:39:58.849 It was just like, hey, Grey Knights fans, we're 00:39:58.849 --> 00:40:00.489 just going to box all the old models together. 00:40:00.670 --> 00:40:03.789 Like, oh, thanks. Thanks for that. You know what? 00:40:03.789 --> 00:40:08.010 I will say to house credit, the new Eldar are 00:40:08.010 --> 00:40:10.929 great. The new actual Eldar. The Phoenix Lords. 00:40:11.170 --> 00:40:14.570 I can't play Carandras anymore for some reason. 00:40:14.889 --> 00:40:18.190 He's just not there anymore. He's my favorite 00:40:18.190 --> 00:40:20.190 Phoenix Lord. All they had to do was put his 00:40:20.190 --> 00:40:22.050 data sheet in. It wouldn't have cost him, what, 00:40:22.110 --> 00:40:24.150 five minutes? At some point, do you go, of my 00:40:24.150 --> 00:40:30.010 40 to 100 data sheets, do you go like, you know 00:40:30.010 --> 00:40:33.969 what? It's okay to have 48 or whatever data sheets. 00:40:34.190 --> 00:40:37.340 And at some point, it's not. the end of the world 00:40:37.340 --> 00:40:39.739 if you're fine cast miniature that looks really 00:40:39.739 --> 00:40:42.639 old that most people proxy with something else 00:40:42.639 --> 00:40:48.480 because it's that bad like it is proxy i bought 00:40:48.480 --> 00:40:51.179 a specific grandeur's proxy to play with and 00:40:51.179 --> 00:40:53.440 now he's not in the game and then he probably 00:40:53.440 --> 00:40:55.739 bought it from china from it was probably not 00:40:55.739 --> 00:40:58.579 even i got it from artel w yeah see that's the 00:40:58.579 --> 00:41:00.780 thing it's like it's not even the real you know 00:41:00.780 --> 00:41:03.000 i mean i don't even have to regardless i want 00:41:03.000 --> 00:41:05.630 to play it on the tabletop and for no no given 00:41:05.630 --> 00:41:07.809 reason i just can't let's not talk about the 00:41:07.809 --> 00:41:10.849 necron situation all right on the dark all right 00:41:10.849 --> 00:41:13.329 all right we've lost all of our characters right 00:41:13.329 --> 00:41:16.530 so to play devil's advocate and i already know 00:41:16.530 --> 00:41:17.750 your opinion on this because i asked you before 00:41:17.750 --> 00:41:20.050 the stream today we had a new kill team which 00:41:20.050 --> 00:41:22.449 had tau and space walls so we had space marines 00:41:22.449 --> 00:41:25.570 and we had xenos in a new box surely that's good 00:41:25.570 --> 00:41:30.110 right I mean, it's good that they're paying attention 00:41:30.110 --> 00:41:32.489 to them, but I don't like the models very much. 00:41:32.570 --> 00:41:35.349 I think the stealth suits look goofy. I'm not 00:41:35.349 --> 00:41:37.289 complaining. I don't really care. I'm not going 00:41:37.289 --> 00:41:40.469 to buy it either way. It doesn't really matter 00:41:40.469 --> 00:41:43.230 to me. It looks like they put Space Wolf bits 00:41:43.230 --> 00:41:45.989 on some Primaris Marines and they mashed together 00:41:45.989 --> 00:41:49.809 some cross stuff. You could kitbash these guild 00:41:49.809 --> 00:41:52.170 teams by yourself if you wanted. Which, by the 00:41:52.170 --> 00:41:54.389 way, you can't really kitbash anymore. You can 00:41:54.389 --> 00:41:57.550 only build what's in the box, so sorry. what's 00:41:57.550 --> 00:41:59.309 the thing called where like it doesn't matter 00:41:59.309 --> 00:42:01.329 what you do but someone else already hates it 00:42:01.329 --> 00:42:04.030 because they have a thing isn't it like like 00:42:04.030 --> 00:42:06.349 your favorite person could do like your most 00:42:06.349 --> 00:42:08.030 disliked person could do something good but you 00:42:08.030 --> 00:42:11.190 still hate it because it's like i've given gw 00:42:11.190 --> 00:42:13.489 credit when it's due i've said i like things 00:42:13.489 --> 00:42:16.250 plenty of times when it's not when credit is 00:42:16.250 --> 00:42:19.269 not justified not able to be given i'm not going 00:42:19.269 --> 00:42:24.500 to give it okay well um I think now that we've, 00:42:24.500 --> 00:42:27.280 I've kind of been prodding the proverbial bears 00:42:27.280 --> 00:42:30.639 in this debate, trying to get them riled up a 00:42:30.639 --> 00:42:33.219 little bit. I think it's time for the minute 00:42:33.219 --> 00:42:36.699 of hate for each of you. Now, I will warn you, 00:42:36.739 --> 00:42:39.559 Eli, there is a still image I'm looking at on 00:42:39.559 --> 00:42:42.159 my second screen, which is kind of concerning 00:42:42.159 --> 00:42:45.960 me, but also making me grin that Hal has prepared. 00:42:46.539 --> 00:42:48.539 And that's what we're going to put on screen. 00:42:49.369 --> 00:42:51.530 No, I'll put it on screen when your time starts. 00:42:51.670 --> 00:42:53.909 Cause I don't want that to, I don't want to give 00:42:53.909 --> 00:42:56.969 you extra time with the shock value of what you've 00:42:56.969 --> 00:42:59.130 got. So I'm just telling you this Eli. So if 00:42:59.130 --> 00:43:01.849 you want to like really quickly muscle something 00:43:01.849 --> 00:43:05.409 together, then you can, um, because it's okay. 00:43:05.530 --> 00:43:07.969 I'll, uh, well, or even, or even just kind of 00:43:07.969 --> 00:43:13.469 hype yourself up. Okay. How this is how you, 00:43:13.489 --> 00:43:16.050 how you tell me when you're ready and I'll give 00:43:16.050 --> 00:43:20.909 you a count in. I am ready. Okay. Brace yourself, 00:43:20.969 --> 00:43:28.090 folks. Your time starts in three, two, one. All 00:43:28.090 --> 00:43:31.429 right, boys. As much as we've heard much, Eli, 00:43:31.530 --> 00:43:33.730 over the many different episodes complain about 00:43:33.730 --> 00:43:36.250 like, oh, you know, WAM additions happen so fast 00:43:36.250 --> 00:43:38.730 and things are going at a pace. If I look at 00:43:38.730 --> 00:43:42.030 it correctly, 6th edition is the two -year edition? 00:43:42.630 --> 00:43:44.570 7th edition was when all the bad things started. 00:43:44.650 --> 00:43:47.699 Yeah, sure. I mean, this is the earlier edition. 00:43:47.920 --> 00:43:52.519 Wow. Okay, crazy. Again, fine cast. You can't 00:43:52.519 --> 00:43:54.780 run away from the fact that quite a lot of the 00:43:54.780 --> 00:43:57.400 model ranges, even new ones that came out in 00:43:57.400 --> 00:43:59.860 the earlier editions, you know what I mean? My 00:43:59.860 --> 00:44:02.139 model is just VonWay. It breaks. It's terrible. 00:44:02.380 --> 00:44:05.500 It doesn't have the quality. I would say, as 00:44:05.500 --> 00:44:07.699 much as we know, I would agree. Some Codexes 00:44:07.699 --> 00:44:10.800 before had some great things in them that probably 00:44:10.800 --> 00:44:13.000 make them slightly better, but it's because the 00:44:13.000 --> 00:44:15.219 ecosystem around Warhammer itself has shifted. 00:44:15.789 --> 00:44:19.110 from the Codex to the actual community. Modern 00:44:19.110 --> 00:44:22.269 Warhammer saved the hobby, literally. Modern 00:44:22.269 --> 00:44:24.269 Sculpt looked the best it's ever been, and we're 00:44:24.269 --> 00:44:26.929 enjoying it ourselves as well. There you go. 00:44:27.010 --> 00:44:28.590 That's your minute of hate. It's not long enough. 00:44:28.769 --> 00:44:30.369 A minute is not long enough. Well, the thing 00:44:30.369 --> 00:44:35.010 was, the visuals are pretty funny, but also it 00:44:35.010 --> 00:44:37.989 does cut into the time, I suppose. That's why 00:44:37.989 --> 00:44:40.570 I didn't want to put the picture up first, because 00:44:40.570 --> 00:44:44.710 it would have been an unfair advantage. it's 00:44:44.710 --> 00:44:48.829 my new well oh yeah it's it's the equivalent 00:44:48.829 --> 00:44:52.289 of uh eli with the toy story 2 call -in picture 00:44:52.289 --> 00:44:54.949 put it on your on your back that is still my 00:44:54.949 --> 00:45:01.170 that is still my pc wallpaper forever okay eli 00:45:01.170 --> 00:45:06.550 are you ready for your minute of hate sure okay 00:45:06.550 --> 00:45:11.989 we got starting okay yeah you're not dying cool 00:45:11.989 --> 00:45:18.880 no cool Time starts in three, two, one, go. New 00:45:18.880 --> 00:45:21.239 Hammer rules are complete garbage, utter trash, 00:45:21.380 --> 00:45:24.400 unplayable filth, extremely unfun, point and 00:45:24.400 --> 00:45:26.659 click, screw you. This piece of terrain this 00:45:26.659 --> 00:45:28.300 tall, it's actually this tall. You can't see 00:45:28.300 --> 00:45:30.739 through it. You need tournament required L -shaped 00:45:30.739 --> 00:45:33.239 terrain. Your train's lame. Your combat's lame. 00:45:33.420 --> 00:45:35.920 Everyone hits on twos. Everyone wounds on twos. 00:45:35.940 --> 00:45:37.940 Every gun can wound everything. Screw you. Oh, 00:45:38.039 --> 00:45:40.760 you're an ancient race who's trying to... Keep 00:45:40.760 --> 00:45:42.960 as many of its people alive? Sorry, you have 00:45:42.960 --> 00:45:45.159 to go sit on the front lines on a random objective 00:45:45.159 --> 00:45:47.639 and do some useless garbage secondary objective 00:45:47.639 --> 00:45:49.800 and sacrifice this unit because the only way 00:45:49.800 --> 00:45:51.420 to play this game now is through trade gameplay 00:45:51.420 --> 00:45:54.219 or you automatically lose. You want to outmaneuver 00:45:54.219 --> 00:45:56.900 your opponent? You want to beta and switch? You 00:45:56.900 --> 00:45:58.639 can't. You can't because you have to hold as 00:45:58.639 --> 00:46:00.960 many objectives as you can for the entire game. 00:46:01.059 --> 00:46:03.260 And you have to sacrifice your entire army. Most 00:46:03.260 --> 00:46:05.219 games, you end up with barely anything left on 00:46:05.219 --> 00:46:07.159 the board for both players unless you roll really 00:46:07.159 --> 00:46:09.860 good. That's stupid. That's not strategic. That's 00:46:09.860 --> 00:46:11.960 not little accurate. There's no flavor. There's 00:46:11.960 --> 00:46:17.920 nothing. Five, four, three, two, one. And he's 00:46:17.920 --> 00:46:22.239 done. Wow. Shout out to the two up in vulnerable 00:46:22.239 --> 00:46:25.460 say that was before in the early editions. Wow. 00:46:26.159 --> 00:46:28.980 There's only one Dark Eldar model. If you're 00:46:28.980 --> 00:46:33.300 in chat, please check the chat. I have just put 00:46:33.300 --> 00:46:37.119 a poll up for you to vote with Eli for Old Hammer 00:46:37.119 --> 00:46:40.139 and Hal for New Hammer. While you guys vote, 00:46:40.300 --> 00:46:43.400 I'm going to give us a quick little my opinions 00:46:43.400 --> 00:46:45.739 on the debate. It's hard to beat the JD Vance. 00:46:45.860 --> 00:46:50.320 Hal? I've got to be honest, Hal. I was very impressed 00:46:50.320 --> 00:46:53.250 that you did like... I'm this, this wasn't like 00:46:53.250 --> 00:46:55.349 your usual prep work for one of your videos where 00:46:55.349 --> 00:46:56.889 it's like an hour long video and you have to 00:46:56.889 --> 00:46:58.730 get all these way. But like, I like the fact 00:46:58.730 --> 00:47:00.750 that you brought something to, to illustrate 00:47:00.750 --> 00:47:04.670 your points, like in a, in a proper, um, like 00:47:04.670 --> 00:47:07.869 almost always sunny in Philadelphia way where 00:47:07.869 --> 00:47:09.750 you're just like, Hey, look, this is why my, 00:47:09.769 --> 00:47:12.269 my theory is correct. Can I have one thing for 00:47:12.269 --> 00:47:14.929 chat? Uh, there was audio slightly and there 00:47:14.929 --> 00:47:17.329 was boom sound effect and boom vine sound effects. 00:47:17.980 --> 00:47:20.420 I can't be that. I can't be that. I can't be 00:47:20.420 --> 00:47:24.380 that. I did ask if there was any audit news. 00:47:24.780 --> 00:47:27.900 I know. I figured it would be distracting. At 00:47:27.900 --> 00:47:29.880 least Old Hammer wasn't ran by stockholders in 00:47:29.880 --> 00:47:37.159 suits. Maybe I can add them in post, Hal. So 00:47:37.159 --> 00:47:39.820 the main sticking point, as far as I can tell, 00:47:39.860 --> 00:47:43.500 is, and this isn't just like... us making this 00:47:43.500 --> 00:47:45.960 as a contentious point there is a big discourse 00:47:45.960 --> 00:47:48.340 right now with a lot of purists and a lot of 00:47:48.340 --> 00:47:52.579 gatekeeping people and it's like obviously you 00:47:52.579 --> 00:47:54.980 can't let the you can't have the setting flourish 00:47:54.980 --> 00:47:56.860 if you don't try new things and bring in new 00:47:56.860 --> 00:48:01.539 people but also if you don't lean on the wisdom 00:48:01.539 --> 00:48:04.760 of the past you're going to make mistakes and 00:48:04.760 --> 00:48:09.039 right now like eli said there's tons of stuff 00:48:09.659 --> 00:48:11.739 In terms of resources. You've got a publishing 00:48:11.739 --> 00:48:13.440 house. You've got all this fleet of writers. 00:48:13.639 --> 00:48:15.679 You've got different studios. You've got all 00:48:15.679 --> 00:48:17.780 these factions. All this lore to draw from. You've 00:48:17.780 --> 00:48:19.380 got all these characters. You've got all this 00:48:19.380 --> 00:48:21.179 established stuff. That's taken 40 years to make. 00:48:21.699 --> 00:48:25.539 But at the same time. I guess it's somewhat in 00:48:25.539 --> 00:48:28.340 the eye of the beholder. What you consider good 00:48:28.340 --> 00:48:30.900 or bad. And I think the lore. There's so much 00:48:30.900 --> 00:48:33.480 of it these days. Compared to 30 years ago. 20 00:48:33.480 --> 00:48:37.920 years ago. For every hell's reach. You'll get 00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:42.909 a. What's the first Phil Kelly Farsight book? 00:48:43.110 --> 00:48:45.590 You get one of those. That's not terrible, though. 00:48:45.610 --> 00:48:47.829 The first one was acceptable, to be fair. The 00:48:47.829 --> 00:48:49.929 first one wasn't horrible. They just get increasingly 00:48:49.929 --> 00:48:54.050 worse. I was going to say, you get a really good 00:48:54.050 --> 00:48:55.329 book, then you get a mid book, and then you get 00:48:55.329 --> 00:48:57.889 a rubbish book. You throw you into the SpongeBob 00:48:57.889 --> 00:49:00.550 chasm where some word explodes and you just die. 00:49:01.489 --> 00:49:03.670 Do you know Phil Kelly helped write Sixth Edition? 00:49:04.550 --> 00:49:07.050 Yeah, Phil Kelly writes interesting codex loads. 00:49:07.110 --> 00:49:09.699 I think he just hates the Tao. I think he just 00:49:09.699 --> 00:49:12.880 literally hates the Tao. He did something, I 00:49:12.880 --> 00:49:15.000 was doing videos on it recently, and it was like, 00:49:15.019 --> 00:49:17.059 oh, Phil Kelly wrote some of this. What was it? 00:49:18.440 --> 00:49:21.219 Cool, Eldar lore in the Eldar Codex. And he made 00:49:21.219 --> 00:49:25.300 the Tao really... Oh, I think it was the Badab 00:49:25.300 --> 00:49:28.519 War. Was it? No. He actually writes good lore 00:49:28.519 --> 00:49:30.480 when he's not talking about Tao. It's unbelievable, 00:49:30.639 --> 00:49:33.530 man. oh i think it's a scout marine video i was 00:49:33.530 --> 00:49:35.429 doing it was like oh like who are the authors 00:49:35.429 --> 00:49:36.889 who did the scout marine stuff and like phil 00:49:36.889 --> 00:49:41.289 kelly's one of them and it's like i i guess you 00:49:41.289 --> 00:49:46.309 can't really weed out i don't know how the writers 00:49:46.309 --> 00:49:49.130 work i don't know if it's like gw go you need 00:49:49.130 --> 00:49:50.630 to write something for this this and this and 00:49:50.630 --> 00:49:52.869 this is your quota or if they go i want to write 00:49:52.869 --> 00:49:54.849 this because i like this thing because i know 00:49:54.849 --> 00:49:56.829 the current writers what they do is if they get 00:49:56.829 --> 00:49:59.239 a new writer they'll go here's a short story 00:49:59.239 --> 00:50:01.679 opportunity make a good short story and if people 00:50:01.679 --> 00:50:03.860 like it we'll give you an actual book like with 00:50:03.860 --> 00:50:07.559 um dalchion rasak who's this new night lord's 00:50:07.559 --> 00:50:10.179 character he had a short story now he's getting 00:50:10.179 --> 00:50:12.599 a full -fledged novel you had things like mike 00:50:12.599 --> 00:50:15.880 brooks where he did um brutal cunning and now 00:50:15.880 --> 00:50:18.159 he's on a trilogy of books about uh black hawk 00:50:18.159 --> 00:50:20.699 so there's like a proving grounds now where the 00:50:20.699 --> 00:50:22.960 the writers have to prove themselves in the short 00:50:22.960 --> 00:50:28.460 format but That's good. But but then it also 00:50:28.460 --> 00:50:31.639 allows, I guess, through the net of mass producing 00:50:31.639 --> 00:50:36.159 law content, some duds. But Phil Kelly's not. 00:50:36.539 --> 00:50:40.820 I don't really understand. If I can add in one 00:50:40.820 --> 00:50:43.539 thing, Andy, which is Eli mentioned earlier about 00:50:43.539 --> 00:50:45.940 like if you've got the people, the budget, everything, 00:50:46.039 --> 00:50:49.090 there's almost no excuse. everybody here has 00:50:49.090 --> 00:50:51.909 something about like we always like the thing 00:50:51.909 --> 00:50:54.409 of our childhood so i don't care for the fact 00:50:54.409 --> 00:50:58.489 like the star wars you know prequel trilogy is 00:50:58.489 --> 00:51:02.230 in fact probably quite bad but i still love it 00:51:02.230 --> 00:51:04.869 like the thing is i don't the thing is maybe 00:51:04.869 --> 00:51:07.750 star wars has got an even bigger budget even 00:51:07.750 --> 00:51:09.889 you know even more people and everything bigger 00:51:09.889 --> 00:51:13.210 budget does not mean everything is a success 00:51:13.210 --> 00:51:16.619 again You will always forget the terrible things 00:51:16.619 --> 00:51:19.519 in the past. The era we're speaking of now, we'll 00:51:19.519 --> 00:51:22.340 all forget the terrible books and the terrible 00:51:22.340 --> 00:51:25.139 miniature releases. You know, and then you know 00:51:25.139 --> 00:51:27.079 what? It'll be long enough. They'll come back 00:51:27.079 --> 00:51:29.039 and we'll like them because they'll become iconic. 00:51:29.460 --> 00:51:33.780 So in a way, we'll like the argument that I'm 00:51:33.780 --> 00:51:36.460 just saying, like, obviously, companies make 00:51:36.460 --> 00:51:38.760 bad things. I'm just saying, like, nowadays, 00:51:38.920 --> 00:51:41.980 companies have limitless resources and it's just. 00:51:42.300 --> 00:51:44.659 I don't think they deserve any leeway at all 00:51:44.659 --> 00:51:47.480 to make anything bad. Like Mr. Koteas, for example. 00:51:48.639 --> 00:51:50.440 Or you could just see it in video games. Like 00:51:50.440 --> 00:51:52.699 companies make bad video games now because they 00:51:52.699 --> 00:51:54.400 want to make a profit and they don't really care 00:51:54.400 --> 00:51:56.559 about making things good. Rip Halo, by the way. 00:51:57.619 --> 00:51:59.860 Halo, Star Wars, Marvel, et cetera. It just keeps 00:51:59.860 --> 00:52:01.519 getting worse and worse and worse despite having 00:52:01.519 --> 00:52:03.159 more and more money because it's just all about 00:52:03.159 --> 00:52:05.000 money now. It's just all about money. There's 00:52:05.000 --> 00:52:08.420 nothing about passion or love. Also, shout out 00:52:08.420 --> 00:52:10.280 to the chat. They've both been at like 50 -50. 00:52:10.940 --> 00:52:14.469 Yeah. There's a hundred of you and only 70 votes. 00:52:14.630 --> 00:52:22.670 So I'd like to see 30 more votes there. 49, 51. 00:52:22.670 --> 00:52:24.329 It's never been this close. I don't think we've 00:52:24.329 --> 00:52:27.349 ever had a thing. It was 50, 50 for like a good. 00:52:27.869 --> 00:52:30.610 minute or two there, too. I think I might have 00:52:30.610 --> 00:52:34.769 bribed him with a Vegeta forehead. It's pretty 00:52:34.769 --> 00:52:37.070 hard to beat the memes. Can we have a 50 -50 00:52:37.070 --> 00:52:41.429 chat? Can we get a tie, please? I specifically 00:52:41.429 --> 00:52:45.550 didn't do prep because I've won the last two 00:52:45.550 --> 00:52:50.610 through memes and shenanigans. And I knew Hal 00:52:50.610 --> 00:52:54.019 already wasn't really excited. to argue for uh 00:52:54.019 --> 00:52:58.260 new hammer so i wanted to at least like give 00:52:58.260 --> 00:53:00.659 him a decent chance well that's that's not just 00:53:00.659 --> 00:53:04.539 but like but that's an interesting point that 00:53:04.539 --> 00:53:07.179 like you weren't enthusiastic to talk about new 00:53:07.179 --> 00:53:09.579 hammer and i'm not doing this to be like let's 00:53:09.579 --> 00:53:11.219 scupper the vote it's just more of a case of 00:53:11.219 --> 00:53:15.800 i guess the the dichotomy is new hammer has way 00:53:15.800 --> 00:53:19.079 more stuff and therefore there's way more stuff 00:53:19.079 --> 00:53:21.679 you have to cover for old hammer doesn't have 00:53:21.679 --> 00:53:24.059 as much stuff like When they first made, like, 00:53:24.079 --> 00:53:27.019 Horus Heresy, there weren't books until Horus 00:53:27.019 --> 00:53:30.019 Rising, which was way after we knew what a Horus 00:53:30.019 --> 00:53:34.360 Hermesy was. And so by the fact that New Hammer 00:53:34.360 --> 00:53:37.219 has loads more stuff, and it has loads more stuff 00:53:37.219 --> 00:53:41.019 that, good and bad, you have to justify, I guess 00:53:41.019 --> 00:53:43.420 in some regards Old Hammer is way easier to cover 00:53:43.420 --> 00:53:47.000 for because it's like, oh, well. Back in my day, 00:53:47.099 --> 00:53:50.179 it was all better. I genuinely do think that 00:53:50.179 --> 00:53:51.739 it's starting to go back in the right direction, 00:53:51.900 --> 00:53:54.820 but I'm just not sure. Like 11th edition, it's 00:53:54.820 --> 00:53:57.199 so up in the air. 11th edition could either be 00:53:57.199 --> 00:54:00.559 the renaissance, like the new coming for 40K, 00:54:00.619 --> 00:54:02.420 or it could be the nail in the coffin for me. 00:54:03.139 --> 00:54:05.400 A lot of it, honestly, a lot of it rides on how 00:54:05.400 --> 00:54:07.639 they treat the Dark Eldar because the treatment 00:54:07.639 --> 00:54:10.539 of the Dark Eldar, you can kind of have the timeline 00:54:10.539 --> 00:54:12.900 of Dark Eldar to show how good Warhammer was. 00:54:13.000 --> 00:54:14.579 I've never even played Dark Eldar in my life. 00:54:17.079 --> 00:54:21.000 Name a more abused community in 40k than the 00:54:21.000 --> 00:54:26.719 Dark Eldar players. But at this point in time 00:54:26.719 --> 00:54:29.800 of recording, about in the last month, Lady Malice 00:54:29.800 --> 00:54:32.599 got a miniature like 30 years after I think she 00:54:32.599 --> 00:54:35.519 was first mentioned. That's progress. We got 00:54:35.519 --> 00:54:39.000 one new model and we lost even more data sheets. 00:54:41.510 --> 00:54:45.610 I don't know, man. What are you supposed to do? 00:54:45.889 --> 00:54:50.530 I did one point, which is that itself, new Warhammer, 00:54:50.710 --> 00:54:55.030 our community stuff is, you know what I mean? 00:54:55.050 --> 00:54:57.230 Like everything I think before was again in the 00:54:57.230 --> 00:55:00.710 codex because it was, it felt like a very small, 00:55:00.769 --> 00:55:05.909 this new community of Warhammer is so big that 00:55:05.909 --> 00:55:09.889 it's all shifted to us now. the people who do 00:55:09.889 --> 00:55:12.969 the painting the kit bashing stuff like that 00:55:12.969 --> 00:55:15.789 they're not in magazines and things anymore we're 00:55:15.789 --> 00:55:17.909 all online we're all you know i mean like your 00:55:17.909 --> 00:55:21.590 codex is again for playing warhammer 40k but 00:55:21.590 --> 00:55:24.050 all that other stuff like surrounds it is embodied 00:55:24.050 --> 00:55:27.789 by people like us now your law if i go back to 00:55:27.789 --> 00:55:30.800 old hammer times what's your law at that time 00:55:30.800 --> 00:55:33.260 you've got luton he's been around god forbid 00:55:33.260 --> 00:55:36.599 the spicy architecture you know and other things 00:55:36.599 --> 00:55:38.860 one might you know i mean but like nowadays there's 00:55:38.860 --> 00:55:41.400 many other channels like it's it's almost oh 00:55:41.400 --> 00:55:44.900 i will say new hammer new hammer like the hobby 00:55:44.900 --> 00:55:48.199 new hammer of now is almost uncomparable the 00:55:48.199 --> 00:55:51.559 amount of 3d printing for all your new things 00:55:51.559 --> 00:55:54.139 if you've got a problem with you know sanguinary 00:55:54.139 --> 00:55:56.360 guard you don't have a problem because it's solved 00:55:56.360 --> 00:56:00.059 by someone else like making even better stuff 00:56:00.059 --> 00:56:03.340 in the company too much leeway though you don't 00:56:03.340 --> 00:56:05.420 have to demand the consumers to do their own 00:56:05.420 --> 00:56:08.280 work but i i you it's an interesting point you 00:56:08.280 --> 00:56:10.500 made there because like again i'm bringing this 00:56:10.500 --> 00:56:13.199 up again uh when they were doing the promo for 00:56:13.199 --> 00:56:15.840 this which is written by wade who's like the 00:56:15.840 --> 00:56:18.679 law master's guy he had this whole thing where 00:56:18.679 --> 00:56:22.969 he talked about this guy which is Zodgrod of 00:56:22.969 --> 00:56:26.550 Wartsnagger. That's really all the lore they 00:56:26.550 --> 00:56:28.909 provide you with. And that's not too far from 00:56:28.909 --> 00:56:32.949 what he actually has. But coincidentally, the 00:56:32.949 --> 00:56:35.849 same day this book came out, I did a video on 00:56:35.849 --> 00:56:38.349 that character. And that was one of his examples 00:56:38.349 --> 00:56:41.989 of why you should buy it. My video isn't a long 00:56:41.989 --> 00:56:44.269 video, but it has more lore in it than this book. 00:56:45.690 --> 00:56:48.409 And you don't have to pay for it. And there's 00:56:48.409 --> 00:56:51.880 like... them them them leaning on old wisdom 00:56:51.880 --> 00:56:54.800 of we will make a an encyclopedia in the age 00:56:54.800 --> 00:56:58.380 of the internet is a bit like but we have youtubers 00:56:58.380 --> 00:57:00.840 and we have people who are passionate about the 00:57:00.840 --> 00:57:02.900 hobby that might put in more work than even the 00:57:02.900 --> 00:57:05.019 people in the company who have the resources 00:57:05.019 --> 00:57:09.420 that are being paid to do the thing so may i 00:57:09.420 --> 00:57:12.059 may i also say a point to the youtuber thing 00:57:12.059 --> 00:57:14.420 we yes we only had a couple youtubers back then 00:57:14.420 --> 00:57:16.360 but that was also like kind of the golden age 00:57:16.360 --> 00:57:18.000 of youtube where anyone can become a youtuber 00:57:18.000 --> 00:57:19.880 and we're kind of We're almost in that again 00:57:19.880 --> 00:57:21.599 where anyone can become a YouTuber, sort of. 00:57:22.440 --> 00:57:26.099 But that being said, more isn't always better. 00:57:26.320 --> 00:57:28.820 Back in the day, the worst we had was one mind 00:57:28.820 --> 00:57:30.880 syndicate reading off the wiki, and we all made 00:57:30.880 --> 00:57:33.340 fun of them for that. Now we have dozens of people 00:57:33.340 --> 00:57:37.159 just lying about stuff consistently, making up 00:57:37.159 --> 00:57:39.340 their own stuff and just saying it's true. But 00:57:39.340 --> 00:57:42.360 that's true for any group anywhere. Yes, but 00:57:42.360 --> 00:57:45.199 it was not nearly as prevalent when there was 00:57:45.199 --> 00:57:47.989 very few. warhammer youtubers well because the 00:57:47.989 --> 00:57:49.730 worst we had was just dudes reading off the wiki 00:57:49.730 --> 00:57:51.750 right like well i guess if you're right back 00:57:51.750 --> 00:57:53.369 in the day you know i mean you didn't have a 00:57:53.369 --> 00:57:55.690 hundred thousand people commenting on 30 you 00:57:55.690 --> 00:57:57.269 know i mean like your life was probably easier 00:57:57.269 --> 00:58:00.750 10 years ago too so you know i mean that's the 00:58:00.750 --> 00:58:02.650 same thing but i'm not going to complain because 00:58:02.650 --> 00:58:05.269 the success of i'm not complaining stuff is literally 00:58:05.269 --> 00:58:07.429 what makes us have a job doesn't it i'm just 00:58:07.429 --> 00:58:09.869 saying more more and it wasn't always better 00:58:10.250 --> 00:58:16.210 No, of course not. If you take a step back, sometimes 00:58:16.210 --> 00:58:19.050 if you're too close to it, you can't see. If 00:58:19.050 --> 00:58:21.989 you take a step back, it's the golden era, almost. 00:58:22.190 --> 00:58:24.849 Do we have many books that come out nowadays 00:58:24.849 --> 00:58:28.150 with, I don't know how to even say it, not important 00:58:28.150 --> 00:58:32.170 characters? I mean, I'm doing work stuff. Grotsnik 00:58:32.170 --> 00:58:36.389 has a book now. Yeah, I'm sorry. Characters that 00:58:36.389 --> 00:58:38.369 have never been on the tabletop or established 00:58:38.369 --> 00:58:41.039 in the lore? Do we get many books surrounding 00:58:41.039 --> 00:58:43.599 characters like that nowadays? Even the more 00:58:43.599 --> 00:58:47.739 recent character book ones just released from 00:58:47.739 --> 00:58:49.820 Black Library, they're for characters that just 00:58:49.820 --> 00:58:52.440 straight up don't have models. That's one of 00:58:52.440 --> 00:58:54.840 my favorite things about Old Hammer is a lot 00:58:54.840 --> 00:58:57.840 of the books were about people who you've never 00:58:57.840 --> 00:59:02.170 heard of and they're all in this book. Sister 00:59:02.170 --> 00:59:04.110 Miria, for example, is really cool in the Sister 00:59:04.110 --> 00:59:06.110 of Battle books. It's just a model, which is 00:59:06.110 --> 00:59:08.869 kind of insane. The example I always revert to 00:59:08.869 --> 00:59:11.010 is Cardan Stronos, the war leader of the Iron 00:59:11.010 --> 00:59:13.789 Hands chapter. He's ostensibly a chapter master. 00:59:14.429 --> 00:59:17.429 He don't have a model. He's got two and a half 00:59:17.429 --> 00:59:21.630 books. He's got art. And then I look in this 00:59:21.630 --> 00:59:22.949 encyclopedia and it's like, oh, do you want to 00:59:22.949 --> 00:59:25.030 hear about Feroz? I'm like, no, not really. I 00:59:25.030 --> 00:59:27.449 want to hear about the guy in charge not being 00:59:27.449 --> 00:59:31.760 funny. There's a... Andy Neiman. But it's like, 00:59:31.820 --> 00:59:33.199 I want to know about this character. And it's 00:59:33.199 --> 00:59:35.940 a bit of a shame that, again, you are correct 00:59:35.940 --> 00:59:39.980 that in my research, it's usually, here's a book 00:59:39.980 --> 00:59:41.940 like, oh, who's this character? Don't worry about 00:59:41.940 --> 00:59:43.880 it. He doesn't have a miniature. And maybe he 00:59:43.880 --> 00:59:47.920 doesn't even have art. They have rules for characters 00:59:47.920 --> 00:59:50.179 without miniatures back in the day. You could 00:59:50.179 --> 00:59:55.699 just make your own freaking guy. Yeah. That's 00:59:55.699 --> 00:59:58.480 one of the better parts of it. from it you always 00:59:58.480 --> 01:00:00.400 remember you like you always have the perspective 01:00:00.400 --> 01:00:02.420 of someone who's you played a lot of warhammer 01:00:02.420 --> 01:00:05.760 you've been in playing one for a long time majority 01:00:05.760 --> 01:00:10.280 people have not most people now shockingly their 01:00:10.280 --> 01:00:12.860 first time playing warhammer is 10th edition 01:00:12.860 --> 01:00:15.579 yeah this is like that's the thing you know i 01:00:15.579 --> 01:00:16.920 mean like it's the same thing of like someone 01:00:16.920 --> 01:00:19.119 saying you know is that if we keep saying back 01:00:19.119 --> 01:00:21.840 in my day sort of thing you know someone realized 01:00:21.840 --> 01:00:24.139 you know it's it's back in someone else's day 01:00:24.139 --> 01:00:27.730 today And it's, and it's not bad. It's actually 01:00:27.730 --> 01:00:29.409 pretty, you know what I mean? Like the equivalent 01:00:29.409 --> 01:00:32.650 of their back in the day today will be way better 01:00:32.650 --> 01:00:34.869 than maybe what we had. That's the thing. Cause 01:00:34.869 --> 01:00:35.909 you don't, you know, you don't, you never know 01:00:35.909 --> 01:00:39.909 how lucky you are. I'm busting for a week. So 01:00:39.909 --> 01:00:41.469 I'm going to go for a week, but I have, I'm going 01:00:41.469 --> 01:00:43.610 to throw a, like a hand grenade in before I go 01:00:43.610 --> 01:00:48.130 for it. So we're, we're probably soon going to 01:00:48.130 --> 01:00:50.489 be out of the 10th edition. We're kind of getting 01:00:50.489 --> 01:00:53.150 to the end of the cycle of 10th edition. Do you 01:00:53.150 --> 01:00:56.039 think that. 10th edition has done a good job 01:00:56.039 --> 01:00:59.159 for the hobby. And now I'm going to wait. Enjoy. 01:01:00.480 --> 01:01:03.780 It really depends on your opinion on what is 01:01:03.780 --> 01:01:09.579 good for the hobby. I feel like everyone would 01:01:09.579 --> 01:01:11.239 have different answers for this question. It's 01:01:11.239 --> 01:01:16.340 done good at bringing in more people. That's 01:01:16.340 --> 01:01:18.199 kind of all I can say that it's done good, though, 01:01:18.199 --> 01:01:21.679 personally. I think it's done poorly. I think 01:01:21.679 --> 01:01:24.739 it's also done good for certain armies. Certain 01:01:24.739 --> 01:01:29.559 models, certain armies. But it's done very poorly 01:01:29.559 --> 01:01:33.159 for other armies. And personally, I played a 01:01:33.159 --> 01:01:38.300 lot of 10th edition. I really struggle to have 01:01:38.300 --> 01:01:41.139 as much fun playing this edition as basically 01:01:41.139 --> 01:01:43.599 even 9th edition. I like 9th edition a bit more. 01:01:44.239 --> 01:01:47.619 10th edition has brought in more people, yes, 01:01:47.679 --> 01:01:51.179 but it's also kind of... I kind of heard some 01:01:51.179 --> 01:01:53.579 people saying it's like Magic the Gathering -fied. 01:01:53.960 --> 01:01:56.519 warhammer there's a lot of meta chasing it's 01:01:56.519 --> 01:02:00.059 extremely competitive based there's updates all 01:02:00.059 --> 01:02:02.420 the time the new the new thing is to make one 01:02:02.420 --> 01:02:05.079 thing op and then everyone buys it and then nerf 01:02:05.079 --> 01:02:07.480 it and then everyone sells it and buys the new 01:02:07.480 --> 01:02:09.480 thing and there's constant changes to the game 01:02:09.480 --> 01:02:12.460 for competitive play that's kind of okay but 01:02:12.460 --> 01:02:14.760 for casual play it's very like it's very anti 01:02:14.760 --> 01:02:18.980 -casual the game i think is overly it feels like 01:02:18.980 --> 01:02:21.280 checkers to me sometimes it feels like checkers 01:02:21.710 --> 01:02:24.869 I think the anti -casual part of it, yeah, I 01:02:24.869 --> 01:02:27.489 would agree. But it's also, if you're on the 01:02:27.489 --> 01:02:29.989 other end of someone who, again, not everyone 01:02:29.989 --> 01:02:32.670 is great at playing it. I just played recently 01:02:32.670 --> 01:02:35.449 last week, and I would say the person wasn't 01:02:35.449 --> 01:02:39.150 as good as me. But the thing is, he also was 01:02:39.150 --> 01:02:43.369 playing an army, which is quite well balanced 01:02:43.369 --> 01:02:46.429 against me. So therefore, it was all due down 01:02:46.429 --> 01:02:49.889 to the fact of player skill in that sense. Having 01:02:49.889 --> 01:02:52.389 good balance in the game, I promise you, when 01:02:52.389 --> 01:02:55.630 you're on the other end of like you're not balanced 01:02:55.630 --> 01:02:58.349 against everyone else who's got slightly better 01:02:58.349 --> 01:03:01.010 stuff, it does feel bad. That's the thing. So 01:03:01.010 --> 01:03:04.130 when everything is a bit more even Stevens, as 01:03:04.130 --> 01:03:06.969 they say, it actually means like, oh, my army 01:03:06.969 --> 01:03:09.570 is good because everyone else is as good as me. 01:03:09.630 --> 01:03:12.510 And it's actually down to my skill. I will say, 01:03:12.550 --> 01:03:15.829 though, like things are more balanced in one 01:03:15.829 --> 01:03:19.619 way, but. It also kind of slots you into a place 01:03:19.619 --> 01:03:21.000 where you have to bring things that are very 01:03:21.000 --> 01:03:23.980 specific, whereas some units are just blatantly 01:03:23.980 --> 01:03:28.239 unusable, complete and utter garbage. I hear 01:03:28.239 --> 01:03:31.320 Orc players complaining about this a lot. Some 01:03:31.320 --> 01:03:33.739 of your units are beyond garbage, just terrible. 01:03:34.179 --> 01:03:37.719 And if you bring a very specific thing, admit 01:03:37.719 --> 01:03:39.579 it, Chase, as they say, then yeah, it's balanced. 01:03:39.679 --> 01:03:42.699 But I don't want to do that. I want to play my 01:03:42.699 --> 01:03:44.940 lore -accurate army. I want to be able to play 01:03:44.940 --> 01:03:46.619 with my lower accurate army and still not get 01:03:46.619 --> 01:03:49.579 completely obliterated. Whereas back in the older 01:03:49.579 --> 01:03:52.059 editions, it did genuinely feel like every model 01:03:52.059 --> 01:03:54.199 had its use, even if it was slightly less good. 01:03:56.139 --> 01:04:00.500 It's hard to gauge it because that's how it felt. 01:04:00.659 --> 01:04:02.980 But then as to one person, if I asked loads of 01:04:02.980 --> 01:04:05.599 people, I'm sure if I go back and I was in my 01:04:05.599 --> 01:04:08.340 research. when i was in my research of this you 01:04:08.340 --> 01:04:10.079 won't believe the amount of complaint things 01:04:10.079 --> 01:04:13.539 they found from years ago people saying the new 01:04:13.539 --> 01:04:15.800 models look bad the people were complaining about 01:04:15.800 --> 01:04:18.219 like always mike this is not balanced like i'm 01:04:18.219 --> 01:04:21.480 actually shredded by certain things like yes 01:04:21.480 --> 01:04:23.440 the seventh edition was when everything got really 01:04:23.440 --> 01:04:27.980 bad uh truthfully we never changed mostly truthfully 01:04:27.980 --> 01:04:30.300 most of the balance issues most of the balance 01:04:30.300 --> 01:04:32.260 issues could be solved by just playing against 01:04:32.260 --> 01:04:35.719 your friend instead of a guy who is super insecure 01:04:35.719 --> 01:04:40.059 and needing to win. You could make crazy, ridiculous 01:04:40.059 --> 01:04:43.000 OP armies, but if you're playing for fun, every 01:04:43.000 --> 01:04:45.500 model kind of just works together. The crazy 01:04:45.500 --> 01:04:47.960 OP armies were people who spammed certain things. 01:04:49.840 --> 01:04:53.340 But nothing at the moment, though, is... And 01:04:53.340 --> 01:04:57.940 with the constant update, nothing is OP dominating 01:04:57.940 --> 01:05:01.300 for ages and that we're not suffering. It's not 01:05:01.300 --> 01:05:04.039 like people... yeah like having to have tournament 01:05:04.039 --> 01:05:07.539 bands for things for your own models before whereas 01:05:07.539 --> 01:05:10.159 now it's like it's actually sold quickly recently 01:05:10.159 --> 01:05:12.840 just recently the uh the more docker detachment 01:05:12.840 --> 01:05:15.019 had to be banned because it was winning like 01:05:15.019 --> 01:05:17.679 90 of its games yeah but it's like it wasn't 01:05:17.679 --> 01:05:20.460 it's not really powerful that's the outlier now 01:05:20.460 --> 01:05:22.539 that's not a common occurrence anymore before 01:05:22.539 --> 01:05:32.800 that it was the demons and then chaos it's not 01:05:32.800 --> 01:05:35.840 unaddressed for like you know months and months 01:05:35.840 --> 01:05:38.800 on end so you don't end up you know I mean at 01:05:38.800 --> 01:05:42.019 some point they say don't you know I mean it's 01:05:42.019 --> 01:05:44.460 not like banned for an entire season or something 01:05:44.460 --> 01:05:47.440 like crazy now it's actually like oh okay they 01:05:47.440 --> 01:05:52.179 did deal with it thank God Was there a few more 01:05:52.179 --> 01:05:56.119 donations we should get to? Yes. We'll go through 01:05:56.119 --> 01:05:58.219 the donations. If there's any extra at the end, 01:05:58.280 --> 01:06:01.300 we'll add them to the very end. But if you want 01:06:01.300 --> 01:06:03.880 to put any last votes in, now is your last chance. 01:06:04.900 --> 01:06:07.340 First one, we just got a donation of $1 .99 from 01:06:07.340 --> 01:06:09.460 Waffle. Thank you very much. Cheers, brother. 01:06:10.079 --> 01:06:14.639 Thank you. Colin's husband oiled up and bouncing 01:06:14.639 --> 01:06:17.460 freaky style for two. Sincha Nurgle would have 01:06:17.460 --> 01:06:19.820 this same debate. But which one are we eating? 01:06:20.960 --> 01:06:25.300 I call Gibbs on not Nurgle. Zenon, hello, buddy. 01:06:25.639 --> 01:06:28.400 Eli, would you want a 40k classic much like Old 01:06:28.400 --> 01:06:31.139 World? I think best of both could be great, especially 01:06:31.139 --> 01:06:34.079 if it's set in fifth. I mean, in my opinion, 01:06:34.099 --> 01:06:37.900 with recaster sites now, you can just play Old 01:06:37.900 --> 01:06:40.690 Warhammer. you don't need we don't need a new 01:06:40.690 --> 01:06:46.429 like revised edition uh it would be cool but 01:06:46.429 --> 01:06:48.570 you can also go buy a fifth edition rule book 01:06:48.570 --> 01:06:51.150 on ebay for 30 bucks and just play it that's 01:06:51.150 --> 01:06:53.670 what i do i don't know you can play sixth edition 01:06:53.670 --> 01:06:55.610 if you want it as well that's horror's heresy 01:06:55.610 --> 01:06:59.030 so it's still here it's it's well no no no horror's 01:06:59.030 --> 01:07:01.170 heresy is very different now it was similar now 01:07:01.170 --> 01:07:03.650 it's different but uh it's the the biggest issue 01:07:03.650 --> 01:07:06.309 is it's hard for people to find uh opponents 01:07:06.309 --> 01:07:08.489 to play old hammer with if it hasn't if they 01:07:08.489 --> 01:07:10.610 don't already have friends who have been immersed 01:07:10.610 --> 01:07:12.289 in it for a while because i have a lot of friends 01:07:12.289 --> 01:07:15.730 before uh but a lot of people will tell me like 01:07:15.730 --> 01:07:18.210 there's no one who's willing to play old editions 01:07:18.210 --> 01:07:19.989 around here like it's 10th edition or nothing 01:07:19.989 --> 01:07:23.650 else uh which is a weird mindset in my opinion 01:07:23.650 --> 01:07:27.369 i don't know just give i guess if you're in certain 01:07:27.369 --> 01:07:30.030 spots not playing 10th edition would mean you're 01:07:30.030 --> 01:07:31.789 not practicing for your tournament and getting 01:07:31.789 --> 01:07:33.750 better and blah blah which is like the culture 01:07:33.750 --> 01:07:36.300 around 40k now which is Very detrimental, in 01:07:36.300 --> 01:07:40.340 my opinion. And I'll do this one, then I'll pass 01:07:40.340 --> 01:07:42.800 it on to you guys. Free for free, I think, is 01:07:42.800 --> 01:07:47.679 a good one. So Ravan, the five with the little 01:07:47.679 --> 01:07:50.519 cat. Happy to finally catch a stream and have 01:07:50.519 --> 01:07:52.719 money to actually donate. Thank you. On the top 01:07:52.719 --> 01:07:54.920 of old versus new grim darkness, shout out to 01:07:54.920 --> 01:07:59.199 Dance Steps for GW Space Hog. Nice. Crazy. We 01:07:59.199 --> 01:08:01.480 love a space hog. Eli, would you like the next 01:08:01.480 --> 01:08:05.659 tree? You know who's always eating good? Necromunda 01:08:05.659 --> 01:08:07.679 players. Necromunda players have been eating 01:08:07.679 --> 01:08:11.440 good for eons, somehow. And you have to own like 01:08:11.440 --> 01:08:14.420 10 books to play it, but... Oh, we got a Blood 01:08:14.420 --> 01:08:17.279 Angel guy now? Cool. Oh, fair enough. Have fun. 01:08:18.180 --> 01:08:20.619 Colin's husband oiled up in Bouncing Freaky style. 01:08:20.760 --> 01:08:23.119 Thank you for $5. You both bring up good points, 01:08:23.220 --> 01:08:24.760 but they would be better points without shirts 01:08:24.760 --> 01:08:26.699 on. Also, Eli, how do you feel about the rumour 01:08:26.699 --> 01:08:31.159 to Drukhari refresh in 11th? If it happens, then 01:08:31.159 --> 01:08:34.109 that would be great. If we get back all of the 01:08:34.109 --> 01:08:36.550 lost data sheets, I'll be really happy. Or new 01:08:36.550 --> 01:08:38.909 stuff. A new character or two would be cool. 01:08:38.970 --> 01:08:40.649 Well, a character that's already in the lore 01:08:40.649 --> 01:08:42.630 but made into a model. Can we get Vect? Vect, 01:08:42.750 --> 01:08:46.670 update, please. I think he will. Or at least 01:08:46.670 --> 01:08:49.789 I imagine he will. We'll see. It's really hard 01:08:49.789 --> 01:08:53.250 to know. Main event virtual. I will admit that 01:08:53.250 --> 01:08:55.109 the Space Marine sculpts lost some character 01:08:55.109 --> 01:08:56.930 when they went to Primaris, but I'd rather paint 01:08:56.930 --> 01:09:00.090 a million Primaris than one ugly -ass squat FB. 01:09:01.530 --> 01:09:04.989 Interesting. Interesting. I think they're going 01:09:04.989 --> 01:09:06.569 back in the right direction with Space Marines 01:09:06.569 --> 01:09:09.909 now, honestly. I think Primaris was a huge mistake, 01:09:10.010 --> 01:09:12.010 and they looked terrible and stupid, and they 01:09:12.010 --> 01:09:13.829 didn't look like Warhammer. But I think they're 01:09:13.829 --> 01:09:15.510 going back in the right direction because they're 01:09:15.510 --> 01:09:17.149 getting rid of Primaris and just making True 01:09:17.149 --> 01:09:19.050 Scale Marines, which is all we wanted in the 01:09:19.050 --> 01:09:21.609 first place. That wouldn't make a difference. 01:09:21.909 --> 01:09:25.569 Space Wars all looking good. Mm -hmm. Last one, 01:09:25.670 --> 01:09:29.569 Bookie Beard. Thank you for the $4 .99. Eli, 01:09:29.630 --> 01:09:31.189 you can't deny the Necron updates have been pretty 01:09:31.189 --> 01:09:33.350 darn good. The models are great and the new kill 01:09:33.350 --> 01:09:34.970 team looks sweet. Yep, I've never denied that. 01:09:35.050 --> 01:09:37.630 I like all the new Necron models. The thing that 01:09:37.630 --> 01:09:39.869 I am unhappy with is that all three of my favorite 01:09:39.869 --> 01:09:42.090 characters in Warhammer are no longer playable 01:09:42.090 --> 01:09:44.890 on the tabletop, which makes me very sad. And 01:09:44.890 --> 01:09:46.890 that also means they're not really getting supported 01:09:46.890 --> 01:09:51.250 in lore very often either. R .I .P. He has to 01:09:51.250 --> 01:09:54.229 carry it himself soon. I'm going to give you 01:09:54.229 --> 01:09:56.210 four, Hal, because this one's very short. uh 01:09:56.210 --> 01:10:01.189 patrick von de sar for two bucks mark 10 is better 01:10:01.189 --> 01:10:05.430 than mark 11. i know i think i'm a mom i'm a 01:10:05.430 --> 01:10:09.890 mark three boy i'm a mark three space movie seven 01:10:09.890 --> 01:10:14.430 sorry mark seven yeah i was like i misread that 01:10:14.430 --> 01:10:17.710 my brain went straight to 11. to be fair though 01:10:17.710 --> 01:10:22.079 patrick you went from r numbers to roman numerals 01:10:22.079 --> 01:10:24.560 so you you tricked him you threw me off with 01:10:24.560 --> 01:10:28.119 my it's out of track for him nora nors for five 01:10:28.119 --> 01:10:30.439 bucks want to say thanks for being the best woman 01:10:30.439 --> 01:10:35.680 podcast painting my visual uh kai kia kia see 01:10:35.680 --> 01:10:39.020 i literally cannot read key key emperor's children 01:10:39.020 --> 01:10:42.060 models right now brackets one the ones with the 01:10:42.060 --> 01:10:44.880 wacky hair almost done with that awesome man 01:10:44.880 --> 01:10:50.260 awesome we should put it under the discord for 01:10:50.260 --> 01:10:52.600 10 bucks both have problems and it's probably 01:10:52.600 --> 01:10:55.920 tied to having too many playable unique factions 01:10:55.920 --> 01:11:00.560 with which old world started I don't like saying 01:11:00.560 --> 01:11:06.020 it I'm for I'm guard but we may need to relegate 01:11:06.020 --> 01:11:08.899 some background well I didn't even I didn't even 01:11:08.899 --> 01:11:11.020 talk about the imperial guard the imperial guard 01:11:11.020 --> 01:11:15.020 is also in shambles man It's hard because there's 01:11:15.020 --> 01:11:18.199 so much to cover. I know, but it's just crazy. 01:11:18.239 --> 01:11:20.159 It's like you're playing a space marine army, 01:11:20.239 --> 01:11:23.939 right? You want jump pack guys? You want jump 01:11:23.939 --> 01:11:26.420 pack guys? They're Raven Guard. You want normal 01:11:26.420 --> 01:11:28.600 ground troops? They're Ultramarines. You want 01:11:28.600 --> 01:11:30.800 assault troops? They're freaking, I don't know, 01:11:30.880 --> 01:11:32.239 Imperial Fists, whatever you want, Blood Angels. 01:11:32.399 --> 01:11:33.939 You want ranged attack guys? You got an Iron 01:11:33.939 --> 01:11:36.659 Hand. You want rush attacks? It's just insane. 01:11:36.819 --> 01:11:39.239 What they've done to Imperial Guard is honestly 01:11:39.239 --> 01:11:42.510 like... Unforgivable, almost. It's just insane. 01:11:43.750 --> 01:11:45.710 Unforgivable. Someone does ask in the chat how 01:11:45.710 --> 01:11:47.489 they joined the Discord. I think we have a link 01:11:47.489 --> 01:11:50.250 on the Discord. There should be a link. Please 01:11:50.250 --> 01:11:52.449 let me know if it's not working. We used to have 01:11:52.449 --> 01:11:55.810 a dedicated slash Discord slash Law Crimes, but 01:11:55.810 --> 01:11:57.770 then we didn't have enough boosts. So now we 01:11:57.770 --> 01:12:00.670 have, I think I've updated it to an evergreen 01:12:00.670 --> 01:12:03.409 one. We do need 150 conscripts. Yeah, you could 01:12:03.409 --> 01:12:06.250 have Tinkoff and 150 conscripts in Old Hammer. 01:12:06.369 --> 01:12:08.130 Literally, what more could you ever have asked 01:12:08.130 --> 01:12:10.640 for? You'd also have Talon and Catachan and everyone. 01:12:11.819 --> 01:12:13.880 Eli, would you like this one? It's a big one. 01:12:14.319 --> 01:12:15.720 Main Event Virgil, thank you very much for the 01:12:15.720 --> 01:12:17.819 tent. I hope you take one thing away from all 01:12:17.819 --> 01:12:19.260 this. This will happen to everything that you 01:12:19.260 --> 01:12:20.779 love. Nothing you like will remain untouched, 01:12:20.819 --> 01:12:22.319 and it will get further and further monetized 01:12:22.319 --> 01:12:24.399 into meaninglessness. We are effed. Yes, you 01:12:24.399 --> 01:12:26.779 are entirely correct, Main Event Virgil. But 01:12:26.779 --> 01:12:31.260 I'm hoping we'll have a resurgence of well -made 01:12:31.260 --> 01:12:34.850 things. At least in the video game industry, 01:12:34.970 --> 01:12:37.289 it might happen, but people just buy slop. People 01:12:37.289 --> 01:12:39.430 just love buying slop. It's happening everywhere, 01:12:39.569 --> 01:12:42.489 which is the sad part. But I like to think that 01:12:42.489 --> 01:12:44.670 things like Marvel and Disney and stuff are losing 01:12:44.670 --> 01:12:47.630 money and that they're going to have to start 01:12:47.630 --> 01:12:51.170 making good content again. I think Disney, et 01:12:51.170 --> 01:12:52.630 cetera, are doing a course correction because 01:12:52.630 --> 01:12:54.670 they're like, we're losing so much money. But 01:12:54.670 --> 01:12:56.520 you look at like... I was going to say, you look 01:12:56.520 --> 01:12:58.819 at the Destiny community now, the Destiny 2 community. 01:12:59.119 --> 01:13:01.380 Oh, it's grim. They're all like, oh, all these 01:13:01.380 --> 01:13:03.300 creators are like, I'm giving up. I'm not doing 01:13:03.300 --> 01:13:06.220 it anymore. Halo's been gone for a while. I know. 01:13:06.960 --> 01:13:09.880 All these things, it's the same analogy for Warhammer, 01:13:09.960 --> 01:13:11.479 in my opinion, although Warhammer is actually 01:13:11.479 --> 01:13:13.260 course correcting a little bit. These things 01:13:13.260 --> 01:13:15.399 get extremely popular. They make a gajillion 01:13:15.399 --> 01:13:18.600 dollars. They're saved. But now they're terrible 01:13:18.600 --> 01:13:20.439 and soulless and everything you loved about it 01:13:20.439 --> 01:13:23.189 is gone. warhammer is not nearly as bad as those 01:13:23.189 --> 01:13:27.350 things but it happens but i think that the advantage 01:13:27.350 --> 01:13:30.270 warhammer has it has a lot of passionate content 01:13:30.270 --> 01:13:33.710 creators who talk about the cool stuff which 01:13:33.710 --> 01:13:37.510 i think pushes the needle a little bit but also 01:13:37.510 --> 01:13:41.010 whatever ip has like a publishing house for books 01:13:41.010 --> 01:13:43.529 like none of them yeah so in that regard i think 01:13:43.529 --> 01:13:45.750 warhammer is in a unique position if we could 01:13:45.750 --> 01:13:48.029 stop getting downgraded combat patrols for a 01:13:48.029 --> 01:13:51.659 higher cost um that would be pretty cool eBay 01:13:51.659 --> 01:13:55.119 is doing the amount I've gotten. I've not bought 01:13:55.119 --> 01:13:58.680 a new model from Games Workshop. I've only bought 01:13:58.680 --> 01:14:09.319 eBay things. I've got three new Chaos Spawn that 01:14:09.319 --> 01:14:11.659 I got three. Usually they come in boxes of two. 01:14:11.739 --> 01:14:14.680 I got three from someone for 20 bucks, like 20 01:14:14.680 --> 01:14:17.039 pounds. and they're usually like you know i mean 01:14:17.039 --> 01:14:19.560 like i'm not paying full price ever again because 01:14:19.560 --> 01:14:22.739 everyone is so willing to get rid of models to 01:14:22.739 --> 01:14:24.760 be fair i've seen the comments are like you get 01:14:24.760 --> 01:14:27.159 a free lieutenant titus mini for this book i'm 01:14:27.159 --> 01:14:28.800 like that basically offsets the cost of the whole 01:14:28.800 --> 01:14:32.539 thing nice um and yeah tom warren for two we 01:14:32.539 --> 01:14:37.640 have achieved 100 votes for 150 Not anymore. 01:14:38.000 --> 01:14:42.060 It was a back and forth race. It was going. It 01:14:42.060 --> 01:14:47.979 teetered into eLife for a while. But the end 01:14:47.979 --> 01:14:52.159 result is for the end of the poll, the results 01:14:52.159 --> 01:14:57.420 are who won? Hal with New Warhammer, 52%. Eli 01:14:57.420 --> 01:15:00.899 with Old Hammer, 48%. Probably the closest we've 01:15:00.899 --> 01:15:04.380 ever done. Andy, you're supposed to do this. 01:15:04.579 --> 01:15:09.439 Don't forget. well here's the thing um you should 01:15:09.439 --> 01:15:10.779 you should have voted before you looked at the 01:15:10.779 --> 01:15:13.279 chat because now there's pressure there is pressure 01:15:13.279 --> 01:15:16.260 but no but no it's a case of like um call me 01:15:16.260 --> 01:15:20.979 uh a noble bright buffoon if you must i do think 01:15:20.979 --> 01:15:23.760 that new warhammer is good simply because of 01:15:23.760 --> 01:15:27.220 the fact that it has more potential um with with 01:15:27.220 --> 01:15:30.619 your arguments i understand like it's frustrating 01:15:30.619 --> 01:15:34.470 when you see for example The debacle with 9th 01:15:34.470 --> 01:15:36.250 to 10th edition where the Votan were released 01:15:36.250 --> 01:15:39.449 as a brand new faction and within a few months 01:15:39.449 --> 01:15:41.710 their faction was gutted and then they had to 01:15:41.710 --> 01:15:44.550 start again from square one. But now we've got 01:15:44.550 --> 01:15:47.470 a new codex for them. We've got new miniatures. 01:15:47.529 --> 01:15:51.310 I think it's a case of they have the resources. 01:15:51.810 --> 01:15:55.310 Out of sheer bloody -minded statistics, they're 01:15:55.310 --> 01:15:57.350 going to do more good than bad, hopefully. I 01:15:57.350 --> 01:16:01.850 hope. But my main thing is... I honestly believe 01:16:01.850 --> 01:16:05.750 that I understand the critiques and the problems, 01:16:05.850 --> 01:16:09.529 but I also think that without being too self 01:16:09.529 --> 01:16:16.930 -congratulatory, we are helping to improve Warhammer 01:16:16.930 --> 01:16:20.369 in our small way. And it sucks when things are 01:16:20.369 --> 01:16:23.289 legended. It sucks when a faction gets more favoritism 01:16:23.289 --> 01:16:25.829 than another. It sucks when the rules cripple 01:16:25.829 --> 01:16:28.250 one faction and then another faction becomes 01:16:28.250 --> 01:16:31.699 overpowered. But we've seen even with 10th edition, 01:16:31.979 --> 01:16:35.539 them change course and go, we did this wrong. 01:16:35.640 --> 01:16:37.479 We're going to patch this out in like an update 01:16:37.479 --> 01:16:40.140 or, oh, we understand we need to start making 01:16:40.140 --> 01:16:41.880 more Drukhari minis. And hopefully we'll get 01:16:41.880 --> 01:16:44.420 some new stuff in 11th edition or before the 01:16:44.420 --> 01:16:48.579 tail end of 10. We've got the Votan, like a brand 01:16:48.579 --> 01:16:50.939 new faction just appeared out of nowhere. It 01:16:50.939 --> 01:16:52.699 was like, oh, remember Squats? They're fun. And 01:16:52.699 --> 01:16:55.100 I honestly think part of that was because people 01:16:55.100 --> 01:16:57.000 were like, oh, we're watching these videos about. 01:16:57.350 --> 01:16:58.770 squats and they're kind of cool why don't we 01:16:58.770 --> 01:17:03.310 have why don't we have squats i i maybe i'm naive 01:17:03.310 --> 01:17:06.649 yeah well new empress children minis are cool 01:17:06.649 --> 01:17:08.810 i like some of the things i've done with the 01:17:08.810 --> 01:17:12.170 new world eaters releases space marines are kind 01:17:12.170 --> 01:17:14.829 of hit and miss but because there's so many you 01:17:14.829 --> 01:17:17.810 hit more than all the misses are counted by the 01:17:17.810 --> 01:17:19.729 hits and you get hits more than any other faction 01:17:19.729 --> 01:17:23.029 so it's like oh cool um what old world is going 01:17:23.029 --> 01:17:26.550 resurgence uh i love the cafe models i love the 01:17:26.550 --> 01:17:28.170 stuff they're doing with like the new age of 01:17:28.170 --> 01:17:29.869 sigma models and stuff like that they're just 01:17:29.869 --> 01:17:32.829 like cooking every single time apart from the 01:17:32.829 --> 01:17:35.369 uh the well they the corn followers who just 01:17:35.369 --> 01:17:37.649 look generic but again you get like you get like 01:17:37.649 --> 01:17:40.869 one miss with that with that part of the the 01:17:40.869 --> 01:17:44.770 production company and yeah i i i honestly think 01:17:44.770 --> 01:17:48.449 the new hammer is good i understand the problems 01:17:48.449 --> 01:17:52.029 i understand that there are inconsistencies there 01:17:52.029 --> 01:17:54.729 are things that are being dumbed down but the 01:17:54.729 --> 01:17:57.210 nice thing about it is that because the fan is 01:17:57.210 --> 01:17:59.789 so in the fan base is so integrated with the 01:17:59.789 --> 01:18:04.609 the product when there's enough unrest they tend 01:18:04.609 --> 01:18:07.369 to be quite more than any other company i've 01:18:07.369 --> 01:18:10.890 seen as much as gw has problems even if it's 01:18:10.890 --> 01:18:13.029 out of just sheer profit margins they're seeking 01:18:13.029 --> 01:18:15.909 i do think they listen to the audience they go 01:18:15.909 --> 01:18:18.970 oh we need to course correct from this problem 01:18:18.970 --> 01:18:21.850 or that problem even little things like the only 01:18:21.850 --> 01:18:26.090 hands debacle uh do we remember only hands no 01:18:26.090 --> 01:18:29.989 oh so warhammer's main channel the official warhammer 01:18:29.989 --> 01:18:32.550 youtube channel put in place about a year plus 01:18:32.550 --> 01:18:35.909 ago where the artists the painters you couldn't 01:18:35.909 --> 01:18:39.210 see their face no names on the video only their 01:18:39.210 --> 01:18:41.670 hands were visible painting the minis then everyone 01:18:41.670 --> 01:18:44.010 made an uproar going hey they deserve to have 01:18:44.010 --> 01:18:47.529 credit and now their faces back on the thumbnails 01:18:47.529 --> 01:18:49.850 and back on the videos they're now crediting 01:18:49.850 --> 01:18:52.229 in white dwarf articles the people who painted 01:18:52.229 --> 01:18:54.149 the miniatures they're now crediting the people 01:18:54.149 --> 01:18:56.689 in the animations they're doing there are changes 01:18:56.689 --> 01:19:00.029 going on i don't think it's productive to be 01:19:00.029 --> 01:19:04.210 like let's just always whinge and moan but it 01:19:04.210 --> 01:19:06.510 is also worthwhile looking at the past and saying 01:19:06.510 --> 01:19:10.420 hey i liked when this was the standard and i 01:19:10.420 --> 01:19:12.899 and i honestly think that the setting is going 01:19:12.899 --> 01:19:15.640 in good directions i guess the the cataclysm 01:19:15.640 --> 01:19:20.239 will be the tv show but yeah as long as they're 01:19:20.239 --> 01:19:22.060 not like oh next year we're ending the setting 01:19:22.060 --> 01:19:24.319 with an apocalypse event and warhammer is getting 01:19:24.319 --> 01:19:27.859 reset i think we'll be okay uh which is why just 01:19:27.859 --> 01:19:30.000 out of sheer volume of stuff i think that the 01:19:30.000 --> 01:19:33.359 new the new hammer is my my cup of tea but i 01:19:33.359 --> 01:19:35.699 under i also love old hammer i understand the 01:19:35.699 --> 01:19:38.260 points that you made eli and also i've got to 01:19:38.260 --> 01:19:41.640 be honest i was impressed by hal's uh meanness 01:19:41.640 --> 01:19:45.119 in this video it's not my strong suit so i try 01:19:45.119 --> 01:19:47.340 boys i should have i should have catered towards 01:19:47.340 --> 01:19:49.760 the lore i talked too much about tabletop and 01:19:49.760 --> 01:19:52.810 he doesn't play tabletop i know i need to make 01:19:52.810 --> 01:19:55.689 andy i need to go make andy play but even with 01:19:55.689 --> 01:19:57.989 tabletop i bought a book that i'll never read 01:19:57.989 --> 01:20:00.569 and at least i got a free mini from it like cool 01:20:00.569 --> 01:20:02.710 and it's titus and he's from that vidya game 01:20:02.710 --> 01:20:05.329 so cool and he's a push fit i i looked at the 01:20:05.329 --> 01:20:07.329 screen i'm like oh he's a push fit that's kind 01:20:07.329 --> 01:20:10.170 of cool uh i wish they did more like i recently 01:20:10.170 --> 01:20:13.289 discovered how gundam do their push fits i'm 01:20:13.289 --> 01:20:16.529 like oh if warhammer like they did that like 01:20:16.529 --> 01:20:19.609 i don't hate those i honestly don't care i don't 01:20:19.609 --> 01:20:22.119 hate it either If you want to convert, just chop 01:20:22.119 --> 01:20:25.579 stuff up and put it whatever. I don't think it's 01:20:25.579 --> 01:20:31.880 really a big deal. I was going to say, if we 01:20:31.880 --> 01:20:34.180 did this two years ago, I think it would be an 01:20:34.180 --> 01:20:37.739 overwhelming old hammer victory. In the last 01:20:37.739 --> 01:20:39.960 two years, like I've said, GW is course correcting 01:20:39.960 --> 01:20:42.800 and things are getting a bit better. New lore 01:20:42.800 --> 01:20:46.739 is not terrible anymore. The new models are decent. 01:20:47.260 --> 01:20:49.699 I will die on the hill forever. That old Hammer 01:20:49.699 --> 01:20:52.300 tabletop is better than new Hammer, and I think 01:20:52.300 --> 01:20:55.020 it always has been since 8th edition. I don't 01:20:55.020 --> 01:20:57.859 think it's ever gotten better. The lore and the 01:20:57.859 --> 01:21:00.039 minis are where I can give leeway on, but the 01:21:00.039 --> 01:21:01.960 tabletop I don't think has improved one bit. 01:21:03.079 --> 01:21:05.680 I will say, though, I hope everyone enjoyed that 01:21:05.680 --> 01:21:09.579 one. I would say that's 50 -50 in the end. It's 01:21:09.579 --> 01:21:12.579 almost too close to cool. Yeah, I know. The reign 01:21:12.579 --> 01:21:16.130 of Phil has ended. In theory. The century of 01:21:16.130 --> 01:21:19.930 humiliation is over. I think that with that being 01:21:19.930 --> 01:21:21.130 said, though, thank you everyone for listening, 01:21:21.229 --> 01:21:23.470 for watching. Of course, again, if you wanted 01:21:23.470 --> 01:21:25.609 to, you should join the Discord. We're there. 01:21:25.710 --> 01:21:29.689 Go ahead, Andy. One more donation from Raw666 01:21:29.689 --> 01:21:34.609 for $5 reduced. OW, I guess that's Old World, 01:21:34.729 --> 01:21:40.239 is Old Warhammer 40k. Ow. Also, regulate background. 01:21:40.380 --> 01:21:42.939 I was thinking having rotating factions pre -game 01:21:42.939 --> 01:21:50.270 addition to focus. Interesting. Nice. Thank you 01:21:50.270 --> 01:21:52.529 for listening, for watching. You guys, I hope 01:21:52.529 --> 01:21:54.689 you all enjoyed this one. It's a nice, fun chat. 01:21:55.390 --> 01:21:59.529 I was dreading this one. I was busy as well. 01:21:59.630 --> 01:22:01.609 So I was like, no, I had to throw this together. 01:22:01.829 --> 01:22:04.829 So I hope you all enjoyed. And we'll see you 01:22:04.829 --> 01:22:06.989 guys all in the next one for a fun episode next 01:22:06.989 --> 01:22:09.949 week. Peace. Oh, yes. See you next week, folks. 01:22:10.050 --> 01:22:10.609 See you.