We should be live. Hello everyone, we should be live. Please let us know if you can hear
us properly. Hello everyone.
That would be good.
We liked, we were so professional that we was making sure we are definitely here. Please
let us know you can hear us guys. Is there one, I guess I might explain what we're going
to be talking about today because this was a little baby I've cooked up with some help
here because 40k can be amazing and badass, but yet it also kind of can make you cry sometimes.
Let's talk about some of the things that really just hit you in the fields. Maybe we'll talk
about some great victories and funny moments, like 40k's funniest moments in the future
as a tier list, but for today is going to be tragedies. It's going to, and it's not
just any singular sort of one event, it's kind of spread out. It's not just Imperium,
it'll be a little bit of Xenos in there. And I will specify as well, we're not doing, the
Horus Heresy is not on this list because that's not really one event and it has multiple things
in it. And it's maybe not specific character deaths, maybe one or two in there, but nothing.
If we did every character death, we wouldn't be, we'd be here all night. So we're not going
to be doing that though.
I'd put it in F tier for funny. The big funny though. We're going to start off, some of
these are quite big, so we'll have to explain a few things that happened in these events
and why it could be pretty sad. But I guess we start with the first one, Andy, I think,
which is top left. It is the first black crusade and specifically this one.
We got Abaddon in it, so it's going in D. Yeah. Okay. Where we put Abaddon in this first
black crusade.
He was asleep, he was slumbering and then his eyes went, I hear bullshitting. Anyway.
We should specify though, during the first black crusade, we did lose a few real ones.
We lost Sigismund and Dawn, if I remember correctly, or maybe Sigismund technically
just before. So we lost quite a lot there. Losing a Primarch and only get his hand left
after is pretty mid for Imperial victory there.
Big win for the lads.
Yeah. Sorry, Andy, this might not be your favorite episode here. How tragic is this
though? Is it like, makes you deeply upset, like remember it forever or is this...
I honestly never think about it.
I'd say put it in B, just B for black crusade. Primarch loss, not great. Sigismund not great,
but what was Rogan Dorn going to do? He was going to build forts. Well, we already had
Kadia. Kadia was built without much stuff. I don't think Dorn was that involved in Kadia.
Clearly you can build defensive structures without him being around.
You can build a fence. He's not like planning permission. Do you guys call it planning permission
in North America as well?
I don't know what it is.
Or it's like if you want to put an extension on your house, you need planning permission
from your council.
I don't know if we call it that. We just said like you need like city approval or from whatever.
So you can build like a shed without Dorn knocking your door going, it's not fortified
correctly.
I don't know what this was from, but you've reminded me, I took a photo of a book I was
reading. It was like, Dorn had apparently declared the fortress to be adequate. High
praise indeed from the dispassionate Lord of the Imperium's greatest siege masters.
Oh, it's from the Blood Angels omnibus. It's like the idea of Dorn going adequate. It's
like, yeah, well done guys.
Some guy just fainted immediately as soon as he said that. I do think that one, yeah,
it's pretty, it doesn't get anyone upset. I mean, it is tragic for Sigismund mostly.
I don't think I'm that upset about Dorn going, but poor Sigismund, he did get to spit on
Abaddon's face and literally he did get cut in half.
All right. Now I feel, now I feel, that was the way, all right, fuck Dorn I guess.
A little bit harder because we should, yeah, Sigismund, he stabbed Abaddon right in the
heart. But then Abaddon literally ripped him in two and then Sigismund with his legs missing
went screw you, you suck. Oh, I think we have a, is that a donation here?
Mm-hmm. Is it by Dorn?
Yeah, join us Zoran.
Get that one Eli.
Sure, my god. Finish my, I'm just top of the line.
Oh sorry, it's fine.
This last stream where Chai was pretending to be Vulcan and Colin was doing the best
Eldar child impression. That is a classic occurrence.
Fucking lighting me up.
Glad to catch this one on my B-date. Cheers. Happy birthday.
Happy birthday, brother.
Happy birthday.
Remember fellas, there is a human behind that messy bed. It's clean today, it's clean today,
it is made. It's very nice.
He's literally, do you make the bed Colin now because people have been talking about
it?
Yes.
Oh god.
If I'm on camera I make the fucking bed now. I'm gonna get someone's shit.
Wow.
Happy birthday for the ten dollars and happy birthday.
Thank you brother.
Much love.
I'm gonna put this one on our tier list though. I had to find creative images for this. This
is I believe the Abyssal Crusade.
And for people listening, the Abyssal Crusade was I think happened in the mid M36, M37.
And essentially a corrupted member of the Ecclesiarchy, Sen, he declared that many chapters
of the Adeptus Astartes they had erred and they were heretics. But funny enough they
could earn their place back by going on a crusade into the Eye of Terror. Quite a few
chapters like dozens and dozens of chapters went into the Eye of Terror on a crusade.
And basically all of them got corrupted because this member of the Ecclesiarchy was essentially...
He was a traitor.
He was a traitor and only I think one or two, I think one chapter returned and basically
hundreds of thousands of years later they exhumed his... I don't know what it's called
in history but they put the Pope's body on trial essentially. Well they basically put
the bones on trial.
Oh yeah, they dug up the previous Pope because the current one didn't like him and then they
had a bishop give his answers. Yeah I watched Salmonella.
So...
Art imitates life.
So this was a big, this is a big L for the Imperium here and how does everyone feel about
this?
It's not really that tragic.
Yeah and like the chapters are all like, they all have like a paragraph of war.
I mean yeah it sucks for them but you know my thought process doesn't extend any farther
than that but it sucks to be most of those chapters.
It is a tragedy to be fair though. It was a big loss for the Imperium.
It's like discounted bad-ad war though I feel like.
It's not even bad.
Bad-ad war at home.
Oh I forgot to put bad-ad war in.
Like this is just I think just Space Marines being fucking dumb and I'm being like no I'm
not listening to you.
This wasn't the bad-ad war, this was where it was you know they were containing it and
then the chapter stopped like listening to the Imperium.
This was some dude was like hey all of you go into the literal mouth of hell.
And they were like yeah okay sounds good to me.
And he died.
I think it's not even that, I think it's more of a case of like are you a pussy?
You're not gonna go into the Eye of Terror.
He's like no I'm not a pussy.
He's like sure, sure.
You've got lots of muscles you should be a bit of a scaredy cat.
I'm not afraid of the Eye of Terror dad.
So this is like the equivalent of children going I bet you won't touch that rock over
there and they're like yeah I will and then they actually run over and touch the rock
and then they realise it's a stream.
I bet you won't lick the icy pile.
It's like yeah I will.
Also like how many Space Marine chapters was it?
I want to say it was like 20 something?
Yeah I think we, well nearly 20,000 were lost.
Yeah alright so it's like 20,000, that many guardsmen die in a day for this thing.
Like I do not care.
Even with the limited number of Space Marines there's a thousand chapter, 20 of them gone
isn't gonna make a fucking difference.
It's not that big of a deal.
What I always lament is that they say that all the first company terminators have like
a shard of the Emperor's armour in their ceramite.
I'm like oh all those shards missing.
You could have melted those down and made like a thimble.
That's a bit of a shame.
A bit of a shame is not a tragedy.
The next one though, this one's a bit hard because we don't know all the details but
this is the Age of Strife.
Talk to the hand.
This was the, for people listening, this was after the sort of AI revolt of humanity and
essentially loads of cycles just started popping up everywhere across like the many worlds
across the galaxy.
There's no Imperium at this time but there's many stories of how during the Great Crusade
like many Space Marine legions come across cultures where they basically, the ones that
survived are the ones that sort of harassed and chained up their psychers during this
time and then ones that didn't basically were overrun by rampant psychic power and then
was a mass like loads and again we don't have like, we're only a few characters are probably
around there like the Emperor and some Perpetuals.
Eldar were just having, well this was still the, there weren't, there's no Slaanesh yet
so this is Eldar having fun.
They haven't been turning people into drugs yet.
They were just like, oh we're getting a bit crazy but there's a pretty-
They might have been doing it by that point.
Yeah just not like the hard stuff yet.
I would put this in seated just because there's no like proper first hand account despite
how obviously tragic and horrible it must have been.
I don't feel like that strongly about it though.
I feel like it has to be above the fucking Abyssal Crusade.
Yeah.
I have no emotions about it.
Like the Age of Strife, Least Go Tam, yeah that really sucks even if obviously there's
not much about it.
The Abyssal Crusade is like, damn.
Damn.
It happened.
It sure happened.
It sure was.
Oh well.
It sure was.
It was the Crusade.
It's that Top Gear meme.
Oh no.
Anyway.
Yeah and pretty much.
Oh chat's saying S tier for Age of Strife but I don't know.
We disagree with you chat there.
DJ Beast says it was so bad that Biggie came out of his Discord mod cave.
Well here's the trouble though.
It's like yes it's supposedly quite bad but we don't really have any context.
We just hear it's bad and so it's like I can't really empathise with the Age of Strife other
than hearing it was really bad.
Is there any stories?
Weird plot point which is, do you remember Andy in the Magnus Primark book?
Yeah.
So they land on that planet and there's like a proto ship from Terra and then essentially
they turned it into like a prison for psychers during the Age of Strife and then Magnus comes
into contact with this entity formed of all like the tortured...
I think they ripped the souls out of people who were psychers and then all these psychers
were like why did they do that to us?
And then Magnus went but that's the reason the cultures have ironed.
They're like that's awful.
Yeah I know.
Poor Magnus.
He did get strapped down to a chair in that book which is quite funny.
Yeah a real old chair.
Do you know that literally because it's like as powerful as Magnus was this was like formed
of thousands and thousands and thousands of psychers and they basically took him into
this essentially what would be like a modern day prison hospital.
It looked really like clean and weird and they basically strapped him down to a chair
and went you know you suck.
And he went possibly but you activated my trap card.
I'm not even joking he activated a trap card and he's like sealed away.
But yeah not as tragic as the next thing coming up here.
I might have to ask Colin to do some heavy lifting on this one because this is the High
Fleet Kraken or the devastation of Iandon.
So Iandon was the most populous craft world by this point even after you know a couple
of them got cyclone torpedoed.
They were still the most populous craft world.
Then the High Fleet showed up.
They're like all right this is this is a problem but we can handle this.
And then you know like the first wave of high ships you know were dealt with in space.
And then the second wave showed up and the third wave and the fourth wave and then there
was no more Navy and then the first ones to land on the craft world got obliterated.
And then you know they're Tyranids so you know what that means.
Then the second wave then the third and on and on and on.
And it was despite pretty much every craft world sending forces to Iandon to hold back
you know the Tyranid High Fleet did not go super well and it ended with 80 percent of
every Eldar on Iandon getting devoured.
I believe it states four fifths of the craft world was devastated.
Yeah like either like both craft world itself and the people on it.
Not great.
Although I do like what Hebrick said.
D for deserved.
It wasn't a total loss there.
They did put a W didn't they?
They did ultimately win.
And this was half of High Fleet Kraken while the other half was going to fight the Ultramarine.
So it wasn't like you know this was one random High Fleet.
This was the second of the three biggest major High Fleets.
It wasn't like you know they did and they did win but it's like that's a lot of dead
Eldar and the Eldar don't.
They should have let Matt Ward write their codex.
He's actually the one who wrote the Iandon supplement.
He's the only he's the reason Iandon is the only craft world that's had their own like
special book.
Yeah I get it but this story was out before that though I assume.
Yeah I think it was.
The Ultramarines definitely did not have nearly as hard of a time as the Andand did.
No no they didn't.
But then again it was I've just done a video on Fadeus Hack who's an Inquisitor and he's
like oh I found evidence that the Tyranids invaded millennia ago and he's like I want
to go into the Black Library because the Eldar must have records on it.
It's like guys you should have been ready for this if that's the case.
You've already fought them before.
Yeah well shot on ya.
A joke in chat says S tier so tragic that 20 percent lived.
Yeah.
Jesus.
If that's what it takes to get them into S tier then it is what it is.
Neon LF Grazie but how tragic so many of my Tyranids died.
Yeah yeah Tyranids died in Eldar.
Wow.
Didn't all perish.
Pretty epic.
Jake Thornton did say what Colin needs is a VTuber body pillow to put in his bed.
I just thought I'd mention that.
I saw that.
We have a donation.
From Eldridge.
Thank you Eldridge.
Five dollars.
Welcome back friend.
The Lamentors win easy.
They are like the collection of Shakespeare's works all trashed.
They always win though.
Didn't have one event though for them unfortunately.
They're not on this list.
Their whole existence is just sad I guess.
So where do you think Colin?
Is this S tier for you?
I would say S not even beyond my normal Eldar sipping.
This is the specific craft world that I paint and everything.
The Custard Boys.
Yeah so alright let's not have this talk again.
But I will accept A if no one is willing to give it the S tier.
I'm two layers of bias deep on this one so I understand.
A lot of Eldar died and that's pretty epic.
I'm going to put in S tier.
It could go to A simply because it wasn't Galaxy shaking consequences after it.
But then as a terms of a tragedy it's horrific.
So I'll put it I'll leave it in S for my friend's poor broken heart.
I will say is one of the few events where the Eldar actually get some damn credit because
they beat half of a high fleet.
Nice.
Although I like the idea that like Tegurias from the Ultramans is like I could do you
one better.
Just get you a star fell.
A few years you'll hurt the hive mind.
It's the same thing where that happened.
I believe he also stabbed his boyfriend in a murderous rage and that.
So there's another.
That's a quote for Warhammer stuff.
The next one Andy is that one Hydra Cortatus or is no this would be double check.
Let me sort the list.
This is Beta Garmin.
Beta Garmin.
Beta Garmin for people listening is essentially when well the funny enough there's actually
two Beta Garmin's because there's one during the whole of the heresy and then there's one
later I believe.
I think essentially is both times the Imperial Fists essentially get completely shafted and
I think the first time they are guarding gene seed reserves and this essentially they're
in a huge number of Imperial Fists get wiped down to a complete man and they're all gone
and the fact they lose these gene seed reserves means that it actually goes into forging new
chaos and I do believe it's the gene seed that Honshu goes to make those Demonculaba
with which again adds to the tragedy.
I think there might have been another event where I think there was a second Beta Garmin
where basically the same thing almost happened again essentially.
The artwork for this on Lexicanum is the Titan Death.
Yeah Beta Garmin is a Horus Heresy book as well.
So this one was pretty this one wasn't the most tragic but its consequences were pretty
horrific because it basically was hermonculaba.
I would say I give it a B tier for birthing that abomination into the setting.
So that one's pretty yuck.
I say on a whole not super consequential.
I mean obviously if you're an Imperial Fist sucks but like you know compared to some of
the other events it's not as you know faction shaking.
Yeah.
They didn't fortify hard enough.
As I'm looking at the two next events which are like you know some of the worst things
in 40k it's like you know compared to those.
This is pretty bad look at that.
I'd even downgrade it.
It can't be worse in the Age of Strife.
It's like in reality.
I'm sorry can we just.
Abyssal Crusader into D.
I was going to say can we just get that out of C.
No Abyssal Crusader into D.
That's the one.
Oh we want the Abyssal Crusader into D.
Yeah because it really is like compared to the rest of this list I'm just realising.
Yeah I mean.
20,000 space wings died that's not great but you know.
Yeah it's a lot of lost cool toys.
Probably that many died in this battle alone.
I mean Horus like the first battle of Horus Heresy like Istvan like way more of Starty
Scythe than 20,000 that was way worse.
And these are successes so it doesn't count.
I will say though the next one might have some mixed feelings by the panel here because
this is the birth of Slanesh.
The fall of the Eldar.
The birth of Slanesh.
Now I'm going to let Eli go first because I feel like Eli might want to talk it up a
bit as a.
It's a split decision.
I'm a big Eldar fan but I mean they got what they deserved and now it's.
I would like now that since we're officially recording and this is life I would like to
you know state which I feel like I've said before just to say it again it's not it's
not the craft world's Eldar fault for Slanesh.
People always go it was all the other.
The craft world Eldar are the ones who left they were like no this is too much.
Yeah it's true.
It's just as a brief description unless you want to talk about that Andy sorry.
I was just saying like I mean but the thing is they left but like I'm sure they were doing
some messed up stuff they were just like not quite as.
I know they lived they were.
They shot them.
The ones who started it were the ones who just lived on the craft worlds which by the
standards of the old Eldar Empire were just like cargo freighters.
So that the boring Eldar like we're not doing anything we're not doing any crazy stuff.
According to the you know the people who were snorting people drugs yes.
Yeah.
I can't have a setting with it if they were in charge.
It inadvertently led to the fall of the Emperor's children and that's the most sad thing ever
so put that in S tier.
This was for people who are listening who are not as friendly with it when I think it's
Lorgar Aurelian in his audio drama where he basically has his like his vision quest with
chaos he gets to see like a representation of the fall of the Eldar and it describes
it as essentially a way like a tidal wave of demon flesh flooding over all of the trillions
at the prayer this time Eldar in essentially the blink of an eye and they essentially their
souls are consumed in a wave and even when Lorgar I think sees this for the first time
he goes that's horrific because you see he sees an entire civilization die almost in
a sort of within minutes.
Also yeah worth mentioning that Orican the you know the diviner felt it he has no soul
and he felt it and was so horrified he'd like hit himself away for centuries.
It's a pretty is definitely like it might contest for the number one spot I'm not gonna
say Andy we should put it into the very top of I think it's worse than the Anden by far.
Yeah pretty bad.
Eye of terror pretty bad.
On scale it is but it's another one of it's like the age of strife where it's like there's
not too much detail.
We have some sad man of terror into the chat with our bad mouthing of the Black Legion
and Abaddon.
Hi Ed!
We didn't say anything it's fine.
I'm a Black Legion supporter I'm with you bro.
Oh Ed we need to get you on one of these.
We need to have you we have got a lot of what they did.
If you're interested Ed we've got one we're gonna do all of the horrors heresy books in
one tier list so we'll have to if you fill up for it.
But like it's it's not it's like definitely a little more detailed than the age of strife
which is just kind of like the death of the gods really isn't it as well the Eldaric gods
we should mention that.
For the Eldar it's the most tragic thing to ever fucking happen.
Too much gooning.
The scale is pretty I mean to be fair like I think you agree with it we don't have first
there's not many people who saw it probably first hand other than Eldrad or Vect or things
like that.
Yeah like a couple of Eldaric characters, Orican probably Tracen because he was probably
just dicking around for fun why not.
Tried to grab a quick demon before it.
Probably tried to grab some ash.
Oh this will make a good conversation piece.
Now this one's pretty horrific but nothing quite hits to be fair having said that nothing
quite hits as hard as the fall of Cadia.
Even I have to admit big sad even if I find it you know a little goofy.
Abaddon gooned.
Does anyone want to explain the fall of Cadia for why they think it should be in that spot?
Abaddon turned Cadia into a deviled egg look at that.
Makes me sad.
It's pretty I mean to be fair Cadia held for so long as the like bastion against the Ayoterra
and then when Abaddon wasn't winning he threw a hissy fit and he threw an entire Blackstone
fortress starship breaking the planet apart.
Yeah everyone badmouths him for that but he still won.
Yeah but that's like the football team that still won by essentially like tackling getting
rid of their enemy's best player by tackling him illegally or something.
He just had an oversized beyblade and he was like beyblade beyblade just chucked it.
It's got a big pointy bit.
And it did result in the great rift I think one Blackstone fortress for one great rift
is a yeah I think that's a fair elixir trade.
That's a good equation.
It's also you know a little bit tragic too because in real life it like the you know
the Warhammer plotline ended at 4999.
Yeah like for like what is it like 20 years or something real world time it's like yep
storyline no no going forward so you know for 20 real human being years it was like
yeah that's uh Cadia it's still there it's holding out.
Doesn't that line up with the historical inspiration for is it Candia?
Was it Cabri or something?
The city that the Ottomans siege for over 20 years which was inspired Cadia in Warhammer
I think also was siege for over 20 years so that's pretty.
The siege I feel like everyone knows about oh yeah it is Candia for 21 years the second
longest legion history god damn.
Wow yeah.
You know I don't know about that I gotta be at every time I think of Ottoman sieging I
just kind of go to Vienna and the winged Hussars they kind of.
Oh the charge.
The alliance.
The winged Hussars are coming.
Also a detail I like about it again the Cadian guard the famous the planet broke before the
guard did and then there's like my favourite tidbit in the lore where as the planet is
like their homeworld is breaking apart and they're all evacuating the survivors the last
of them are basically opening up their like cantinas and stuff and they're like shoveling
in dirt of Cadia just so they can still have a piece of Cadia as it's dying.
But the thing is like again that like kind of hits you in the feels a little bit because
it's like oh man I can imagine if earth basically got bay bladed as Andy said and then we would
it's like people were scrapping together the last parts of it.
Although the whole digging up it just reminds me of those guys who get like they dig a little
chunk out of football fields and they go I've got a little bit of the football stadium where
Manchester United plays like it's just soil calm down.
Is that why they don't like you in like tourist areas they don't let like back in the day
it must have been wild because they didn't have all these like fences and stuff so people
yeah how many people do you reckon have a bit of Stonehenge?
You know what I mean?
How many people chip?
Yeah like was it in the Coliseum as well there was there's a story about a guy last year
who carved his name into the Roman Coliseum and he was arrested because people just go
like I just want a piece of it I want to do something.
To be fair that's very in touch with what the Romans probably were doing with the place
they graffiti everywhere.
Is it Hagia Sophia has like the mark do you know the story about the markings?
Oh yeah with the Vikings where like they couldn't translate it and then they finally did and
it's just.
Halfdan was here wasn't it?
Yeah it's sort of just like yeah some like Hulff something was here.
They thought it was some religious significance that it was just I was here.
Bro building his mark.
Do you reckon like our generation will know like the S people should draw in school?
Yeah my gosh.
How is that universal in a way?
How is it I can say that and then people like thousands who went to school literally on
the other side of the world were like yeah this same thing.
Just like open the Necronomicon and there's like an occult reference oh no it's something's
a demon when carved into someone's skin oh no.
Halo the sacred icon.
Exactly.
Speaking of the next tragedy this one is the cybernetic revolt.
See it best.
Yeah.
Maybe sounds pretty crazy and like yes we had to work together to stop it right?
Yeah but it's it's the same thing as the age of strife I mean it's part of the age of strife.
It was before it technically so the age of strife happened I think a thousand two thousand
years after.
I think it's better than the age of strife because it just creates a little bit more
descriptor I feel like.
And we still have men of iron.
We have some men of iron.
It's just a shame that it's more memorable to me when I think about it.
It's like you could have the Terminator and iRobot and all sorts of stuff but the trouble
is it's again it's just that problem of oh the age of strife was bad and we had no technology
he's like oh yeah you got any stories about it?
No.
Stopped.
At least true.
The men of there's some men of iron kicking around still.
Supposedly.
And there was also the tragedy that it because of the cybernetic revolt it led to the creation
of servitors.
Yeah.
And I don't really know if I've lit this up.
Servitors have been made since like the mid 25th millennium.
So you think about how many people have been turned into a servitor since that time.
Yeah.
You must you guys go like oh.
Pop it up a bit then.
Just because that particular Warhammer TV, Angels of Death Origins where it's the Mechanicus
episode is really harrowing when you just got this poor guardsman being turned into
a servitor.
Oh my god you gave me hope he was going to escape but no dear he's got no eyelids.
Why has he got no eyelids?
Now to that again there's unfortunately the cybernetic revolt as it gets so far in the
past it's kind of hard to really have any great ties to it but this one I think Eli
might feel sympathetic to.
Yeah I'm a bit what is this is the this is the Damocles Gulf Crusade in which the Imperium
lost.
Was that a tribute?
That's not a tribute.
No they need to sell back for a minute.
If we're going through Damocles and going to bad math mites guys I'm gonna go for a
wee.
That's absolutely just called a tragedy because it's the Imperium coping over the fact it
didn't win.
Yeah that's not.
It's one of the few times the Imperium actually kind of does give up though in a way.
But that's not a tragedy that's just taking it out.
Yeah that was when High Fleet Bayomoth showed up.
Otherwise this tower would be extinct right now.
As for I think what Eli might be able to describe better but there's there are a few versions
of the Damocles.
There's more than one Damocles Gulf Crusade as well I will mention.
So the first one though quite a few space marine chapters turned up and they were all
like high and mighty being like we're just about to wipe these aliens.
And they like so many chapters took heavy losses during even like the ultramarines they
basically weren't they were getting counterattacked so hard that they actually pretty much were
that they couldn't sustain the war even if they kept going.
That's not really a tragedy though that's you bit off more than you can chew because
you are so full of your own height.
But even then the tower were like on their last legs of reinforcements and.
Oh yeah.
The Imperium didn't know that.
And then the Cato Sicarius and the guys were literally about to win the whole war and then
got called back.
You have a slight problem with Tiranid.
Wasn't that wasn't Cato Sicarius.
The Farcite triggered an EMP which basically froze their machine spirits.
They were stuck in their armor and they basically had like crew holding knives to like Cato
Sicarius.
There was like there was a moment when that happened but I don't think that was at the
end.
I think that was.
It was at the end of the first one because at the end of it they're basically the reason
reason Farcite doesn't kill him is basically because the negotiators behind the scenes
when well the Imperials that was literally when the Imperials found out about the Tiranids.
I'm just saying like it's not a great tragedy.
Losing a war is not a tragedy especially if it's a war like you start.
Yeah unless this might also mean the Damocles crusade where Farcite goes by himself and
they become the Farcite enclave.
Yeah because it's a picture of red Farcite with the sword and stuff.
Yeah.
Ours is the best picture I could find.
Fair enough.
It's like that's that like losing a war whose only purpose is to kill more aliens.
It's not like it's not even it's barely a defensive conflict.
It's barely even lost at that point.
Saval Medeat here is fine then.
Aliens bad.
I, Cato Sicarius, did get owned though.
I, Cato Sicarius, did put my foot through a diplomat though.
I, Cato Sicarius, holy shit.
All Tao history.
What did he say?
What was his quote as well?
Would you hurt, was it you hurt an innocent civilian?
He went yes.
Would your forefathers be like proud of you doing this?
Yeah it's like would your forefathers be, she wasn't even talking to Cato Sicarius.
She got like this other guy listening to her and then he was about to like surrender to
the watercast and then Cato Sicarius comes bursting through the door and stomps her head
in and freaking flans her.
Cato Sicarius like I love that guy.
He doesn't give a fuck.
His boot was sticky after that.
Poor guy.
You know when you go into a nightclub and the floor is sticky it's like oh what's that?
It's like oh it's just brain matter.
Anyway, real shit.
This is a bit bigger this one.
This one is like I didn't want to put the Horus Heresy because that's just too big.
So this is the wounding of the emperor of mankind.
This is the crux in which basically the 41st millennium is, the grimdart future is responsible.
Let him achieve godhood.
So I mean like kind of cool.
Again it's technically it's also the death of Horus, it's the death of Sanguinus in a
way it's the ventral spirit's sort of conclusion and it's pretty much the interment of you
know also should mention it's the death of Malkador the hero on the throne and it's the
imprisonment of the emperor who we found out in recent lore basically was screaming to
not put him on the throne but no one could hear him but Malkador and the emperor's like
I don't have to be on the throne, I don't have to be on the throne but no one can hear
him so they put him on the throne.
And yeah that's like a recent thing in lore where he actually is basically saying he could
survive without being on the throne but they do it anyway just because of the power.
It's just you know I imagine being...
Not quite I think it was more to hold back the like it was implied that the emperor could
have healed if he stayed off the throne but because he was so wounded there was no, no
one could hear him.
Oh that sucks.
I just let's just like imagine the most uncomfortable chair you've ever sat in in your life and
you have to sit on it forever that's all it was.
It wasn't any healing society, it's so uncomfortable please don't.
It's not quite the iron throne.
But this one is pretty...
I would put it...
What do you guys think actually?
What do you think?
I think it's more important than Kaedea blowing up, not gonna lie.
But is it more tragic though?
I feel worse for those guardsmen than the god emperor.
Yeah.
I think Kaedea just hits like too strong because it's like mortal men isn't it?
Yeah.
And average blokes and women.
Also treason just dumping pokeballs worth of shit on top of me.
Custodian, I choose you.
That guy's been like...
The company of Horace Heresy ultramarines on the battlefield he just threw them out there
was like have fun guys.
And they're just like where are we?
I don't know.
Courage and honor, courage and honor, off we go.
Are those chaos space marines?
They're still around?
Edmund the Spiffing asks, so what's the point of the throne of terror books?
That's because the Golden Throne is basically old as hell.
And they have to keep the mechanic...
The mechanic has kept repairing it for 10,000 years, but essentially it's been breaking
down.
And I think they have to go talk to the Drukhari to make a deal because they can understand
the technology.
Except the homunculus that showed up didn't do anything.
You just basted the pain of the emperor.
They basically...
The Drukhari agree to help repair the throne for a fee.
And essentially the Drukhari's current plot line is essentially they're making a dark
golden throne to essentially close off all the...
I think all the wounds that Yunari made in Komarov.
And they're trying to clone the emperor as well to make a puppet.
Why would you ask the...
Freak out.
That's a guess for time.
Because the throne of terror, the Golden Throne, is made of technology that is a mixed match
of human and Xenos technology.
I think the Drukhari are the only ones who have some people who are old enough to understand
the Xenos tech.
Not the regular Eldar?
Like the good guys?
Well, the Drukhari are the only ones who keep certain people alive.
Whereas the Krawford, if I'm right, Colin, they let most of them only live to like a
thousand years, is it?
It's the...
Yeah, the craft world Eldar do technically have a bit of a shorter lifespan, although
it's also because the dark Eldar are vampires.
As long as they get their soul juice, they age.
As long as they see someone get kicked in the balls from it.
Yeah, as long as they watch enough ball kicking compilations on dark Eldar YouTube, they can
go back at it.
Was it C, was it cock and ball torture?
Yeah, CBT.
CBT.
Cock and ball torture.
I don't know.
It's like, just the golden throne is just like, imagine if you had a Nokia 3310, but you
needed to still call your mum occasionally.
And it's like, I need to keep the connection going.
I need to go to the old law, the old tech to keep it going and updated with new software,
even though they don't make it anymore.
My dad's Nokia still works.
In this case, if you don't call your mum, the phone explodes.
Exactly.
Yeah, everyone after this, go call their mum and tell them you need to, right?
Yeah.
What is the next one, by the way?
This one is...
If that's just the death of Senguidis, I'm gonna...
This is the whole event surrounding Goj Van Dyar.
Oh.
You don't want to explain for the good people.
Got the Sisters of Battle out of it, which is pretty awesome.
Yeah.
Do you want to explain what basically the rundown of that event for the people?
Imagine if the Pope tried to usurp Jesus Christ himself, that's Goj Van Dyar and the Emperor.
And Goj was like, I'm in charge now.
I'm gonna rule the Imperium myself.
Because he was in charge of the...
Was it the Ecclesiarchy and the Minister?
Yeah, I think it was the Administrato, man.
Yeah, the Administrato.
He was like the first High Lord of Terra to have like two leading positions.
And then he was just like, I don't need the rest of you.
And everyone's like, I don't know about that.
They were also like the two most important positions, you know, the Imperial faith and
the bureaucrats who are in charge of sending everything everywhere.
So yeah, he kind of won the game of politics.
He almost ripped the Imperium in two though, as I think even the Astartes were preparing
to like, basically go civil war.
Because the thing is, well, before this concluded, the Ecclesiarchy had a standing army.
I think it was called the Fraternist Militia.
And it was just like a bunch of blokes who were like, I'll flagellate myself and then
I'll whip you.
Like, oh no.
And at the end of the war, they were like, no, you can't have...
The rules were something like you cannot now...
No, men cannot now.
You cannot avoid men at arms or something like that.
And then they were like, well, that's fine.
We got some ladies who we can ask for some help.
But to be fair, as some context, many people, essentially anyone he didn't like, even entire
like systems and planets would just declared heretics.
So a lot of people did die during his reign because essentially he was like, oh, that
one administrator who I don't like, or, you know, other high lord, he's kind of from that
planet.
He's got a power base there.
You know, I'll call him some favors, you know, a few exterminators here and there and things
like that.
So it got pretty dicey.
Does anyone want to explain though, how we did get his teeth kicked in the end?
So basically...
Oh, sorry.
Do you want to go?
Oh, if you want, Kate, you want to go, you can do.
Well, basically, there was a faction called the Daughters of the Emperor who were on this
kind of strange world.
They were like, oh, we're warriors.
Daughters of the Emperor.
Oh, brides are later.
Brides are later.
Yeah, because I think it's Daughters of the Emperor.
And they're like warrior women and go just like, hmm, this is a good idea.
So he uses his Rosarius to be like, shoot me and I will not be harmed because I'm protected
by the emperor.
They didn't know he had like a refraction field in his Rosarius.
It was just like an energy shield.
So he's divinely protected by the emperor.
And he's like, cool.
I'm going to do all this weird shit.
And so when he was in the Imperial Palace, the I think it's the Imperial Fist and some
other Asati's chapter is like, right, we're going to stop.
We're going to stop him.
And they go into the palace and all of a sudden they start getting gunned down by the now
brides of the emperor.
And they're like, what is this?
Who is this lady with the armor?
And then eventually Amon Toramachy and who's a custodian is like, oh, this isn't very good.
I better tell them like, oh, by the way, what's her name in charge of the Daughters?
St. Catherine?
No, it was the head sister of battle by that.
Whatever she was.
Dominica.
Amelia Dominica.
Something Dominica.
It might be Dominica, I think.
I think it's definitely Dominica.
And then Amon's like, by the way, yeah, you've been tricked.
And so she goes and cuts his head off.
And then afterwards they're like, oh, can't have a standing military that made a man for
the Ecclesiarchy.
But these ladies, they're quite pious and pure.
And they're very good at praising the emperor.
I guess we'll let Dominica be in charge because she's kind of sorted things out pretty neatly
and tidily.
And yeah, that's not.
And then Amon, I guess, goes back to bed because he's a sleeper.
He also forgot the ring of Sebastian Thor.
Oh, yes.
And Sebastian Thor's there as well.
He was the reason they turned against Van Dyar in the first place.
People think he's a reincarnation of the emperor.
It's like a major point.
He's dead now.
Oh, but his head is somewhere, isn't it?
Dude, he's got like, I think it's.
Trazan has his head.
It's an in-universe joke, I'm pretty sure, that like among Inquisitors, that if you got
every like supposed body part of Sebastian Thor, he'd have like five heads, 50 arms.
Because like so many people have claimed to have his body parts.
Trazan's like just has a slightly more valid claim because his head is preserved and not
just a skull.
Where would you guys put it on the list, though?
I don't think it's super.
It's not the most tragic.
Yeah, it's more of a good thing.
It's not the epilogue.
Yeah, it's a net good.
Yeah, less men with, you know.
Net good epilogue.
His whole existence, though.
His whole existence was a pretty, you know, negative overall experience for everyone.
I think maybe it's below the age of strife, surely.
I'd give it like middle of C tier because it's like, yeah, that sucks, but you know.
But now we have the Sororitas and they're awesome.
Cool.
Let me check my next one here.
I believe this one is.
The next one is the Hydra Chordatus.
I think I believe it's called that.
That's something.
Those are words.
I believe this might be.
Hydra Chordatus is the largest.
It might be called the largest battle in the Heresies.
It's the largest Titan battle, at least.
I think in the entire Heresy.
I'm not thinking.
Or is that Beta Garmin?
I might.
No, we did Beta Garmin.
But Hydra Chordatus is, if I remember, I think off the top of my head, is possibly like
one of the most apocalyptic battles that ever happened.
And it was, I think it, if anyone here remember correctly, was it the final stop before the
Horus like pushed on to.
I believe it's where things like Titan Death and stuff like that happen, isn't it?
Where it's like the last push before they rally at Ulanor to go for the Throne world.
Yeah.
This one was, I mean, a lot of the other, I don't think any other battle we probably
have on here quite compares.
In terms of like humans fighting each other, it was ridiculous the amount of like Titans
and Imperial Guard and Legionaries were fighting on the field.
And essentially it was just a ridiculously large bloodbath.
I mean, I wish I had like more lore to kind of go off from the top of my head because
it is pretty, pretty cool battle.
But unfortunately it is only one battle.
It is considered a tragedy because the Imperium, it was kind of on their last ditch efforts
to really hold Horus in place and the traitors managed to pull out a victory on here.
It was close though, to be fair.
And again, it led to sort of the push towards terror.
But again, it's only one battle though, unfortunately.
Yeah, that is like overall, like that's like the feeling I get towards that isn't tragedy.
It's oh my God, all these Titans are going at it.
That's awesome.
It's nuts.
Where do you guys think that should go in the list then?
Bottom of C tier at most honestly.
Because this is where Per Dorabo is doing a lot of trouble.
I was watching, so I switched up.
Oh, Beta Garmin is the one I meant and Hydrocortartus is the, or they're in the right, but we're
going to the next one anyway.
So it's fine I think.
Yeah.
In my brain, they're basically quite, no, I'm thinking of a different one.
Big robots were fighting.
The big robots were, mom, dad, the robots are fighting again.
It was battle tech for people with way too much disposable income.
And the next one though, I mean, we all know this one, this is Isvon 3.
Oh, sorry.
We've put him in C tier?
I think it's so forgettable.
We were switching it up with the other ones.
That's the trouble.
This is for the assist their brothers though in the chats.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Isvon 3 though, this is.
Yeah, it's doubted to be S tier.
That's the only Horus Heresy event that gets any fucking emotion out of me.
Yeah.
Does anyone want to go through the detail of that just for the listeners?
Can I take this one since it's the only Horus Heresy?
Yeah, you do it.
I'll cry if I talk about it.
So this was after the, you know, the Traitor Legions became, you know, the Traitor Legions,
at least, you know, I believe five of them.
Sons of Horus, Death Guard, World Leaders, Emperor's Children.
I feel like I'm missing one that was at Isvon.
No, Isvon 3, yeah, you're correct.
Yeah.
Oh, I don't know.
I always throw in the word bearers for some reason.
Yeah, it's like Sons of Horus, Emperor's Children, Death Guard and World Leaders.
So it's like three of the four, like champions of the four, and then Thousand Sons just aren't
there and then instead you've got Chaos and Divided Champions, which are Sons of Horus.
Yeah.
And so that was, they decided they're going to betray the Emperor, but they needed to
make sure that everyone in their number was actually, you know, really down for it, wouldn't
ultimately defect because the news hadn't-
Down to clown boys.
Yeah, because the news hadn't fully filtered down throughout the legions.
So the Primarchs and those who they knew were loyal to them and were down with the whole,
you know, joining hell thing got together and went through their forces and selected
troops that they did not feel, you know, like said would follow them into hell.
They feared they would either, you know, stay low to the Imperium or they just weren't motivated
enough.
And on the planet of Isfond III, which was scheduled for a compliance anyway, it was
a, you know, doing a little bit of rebellion, I believe.
They sent those forces down and it was a couple of them thought it was a bit weird, especially
Eidolon, right?
He was the one who-
Yeah, Fulgrim wasn't at the Battle of Isfond III, so Eidolon was in charge instead.
Yeah.
A couple of them on the surface.
No, Salt Harvests.
Oh, so Salt Harvests is in charge of the loyalist forces and Eidolon is in charge of the traitors.
Yeah, he did stay behind Salt Harvests, but he was like, Eidolon's a glory hog.
Why isn't he down there?
Why did so many squads get shifted around from their normal compositions?
And then he was looking through like, why are our fleets going into planetary bombardment
stance?
What's going on here?
So then he jumped on a ship, war-knothed, like basically screaming, you know, the 31st
millennium version of the British are coming.
And it was like, get in the fucking cover now.
Are you replacing the British, like with virus bombing a planet?
What's going on here?
I was just thinking, I don't know why I had that image.
I'm just associating Salt Harvests with Paul Revere with the, you're just like, British
war crimes.
It makes sense.
Yeah.
The equivalent of the tea in the Boston Harbor.
Growing tea into the Boston Harbor is the equivalent of burning people.
And was that not the greatest tragedy?
Exactly.
It was grown and shipped halfway across the world and to be shoved into the water to make
a discount ocean tea.
Get clowned on Bozo's 13 colony lead and dropped it.
By the way, we did get a $2 donation from Neon LF Graves saying, I really hope that
Squad Broken is on the list.
Thank you, brother.
Squad Broken.
Don't bring that up, you fucking monster.
And then, yeah, the rest of it was, you know, they virus bombed a lot of the loyalists died,
but several, like a lot, like a whole ton of them still live because they got undercover.
And then instead of just bombing them again, Angron got a bit ahead of himself and went
down to kill them all himself.
And it was just the first battle of the Horus heresy.
And it was between, not even like really between, I mean, obviously it was traitor and loyalist,
but it was between like members of their own legions.
It wasn't, you know, you got the nice clean, you're an ultramarine, you're a loyalist versus
you're a son of Horus.
You're a traitor.
It was like same legion, brother fighting brother.
And they, it just sad, especially because it's like on his phone, they're like, we know
we're not making out of this alive one way or another.
The best we can do is bring down as many as them with us as we can.
And they give it a bloody good effort as well.
They did to the point like that the final, they did eventually just virus bomb the last
stand of them because like we have been here for three months.
We have lost tens of thousands of troops beyond what we already planned to lose.
If we invade that final fortress, it's just going to result in another month of a shitfest.
A lot of big characters also bite the dust.
If you've read, if anyone's read the first few horrors, heresy books, which I think if
you're a few people have, if they just, they read the law and Tarek to Gadan.
So one of the more noble and friend of Logan just gets killed by the one about the bear,
the dancing bear and again, sort of it's, I do think he did die in that.
Some people like, oh, you know, yeah, I think it's good.
You didn't see a body.
It's not like Marvel guys.
Okay.
Like it did go.
Small one is a Vipers near the guy who is Loken's like friend and sort of second command.
He goes, Loken technically bites and will supposedly gets defeated in there though.
And you get Solomon Demeter who's a Empress children's second company captain.
He gets the best Empress children.
You like, I can confirm that he was a, he was in the Fulgryn book, wasn't he?
You got Captain Erlen and Shabran Darv the world eaters get messed up as well.
Uh, if you're on foul, not mentioned here on foul.
I'm sorry for laughing.
I was looking ahead.
Is that just Erebus?
Is the tragedy for that one just Erebus?
No, I don't.
That's not Erebus.
That's Horus.
I couldn't put Erebus.
Erebus is not a tragedy.
I thought it was Horus, but it also like, I've never seen that art of him before.
I was always wondering, is that just Erebus as a concept?
Oh no, that's, we'll get, we're almost on that one.
I'll explain that one.
Um, but yeah, that one's, I agree with S.T. though, cause that one is pretty, imagine
people who were like, were listening to it when it came out, cause no one knew like,
Loken would survive a little bit longer and to like later.
So they must've thought like, wow, like half of the main cast have just died.
In all the books.
Yeah.
If nothing else, you all know very well.
I do not care much for the heresy and space brains in general.
And I think that's fucking sad.
Speaking of building upon that though, the next Istvan, which is Istvan V, the actual
drops like massacre.
This one makes me more sad than Istvan III.
Really?
Yeah.
Cause it's Fulgur Minferis bro, it's so sad.
I don't even think about that.
I just think about that.
Salamanders waving card in the iron hands getting bodied.
I mean, the thing is as well, it's also like the Istvan one, even though they get like
virus bombed and then they get coated with fire and then they have, they're like slowly
routed in siege for like months.
This was just like an afternoon where it's like, ah, it's free.
It's four V three, but we've, they're wounded.
So free legions against four is fine.
Oh, is that the iron warriors?
Brilliant.
This will take, Oh wait, hold on.
No, stop please.
And then it's just all of them being surrounded by seven legions.
It's pretty sad.
That's Primarch fighting Primarchs though, which is like, like real, for real brothers,
fighting brothers.
Yeah.
Lord Narn Corvus, they go at it and then Comrade shows up.
There's like that weird, it describes it in quite a few of the books, where it's that
moment of like silence where they're all going, Hey, brother, like they're hating like their
allies, like you coming or what?
And they're basically answered by silent and they're like, you guys coming?
Yeah.
Guys, guys.
Is it that Hatme and Anakin one was just like, we're going to go fight the traders,
right?
Silence.
You brought him here to kill me.
It is just Order 66 pretty much.
Yeah.
But like even Lorgar has a moment where he freaks out, right?
And he thinks that he made the wrong decision.
That happens, doesn't it?
Yeah.
Especially when he's like, Fulgrim's being possessed.
Oh, come on.
What's going on here?
I don't like this.
Banish thee.
I like that.
I do even-
Fulgrim just gives up at the end and oh man.
I do like that moment with Lorgar though, because he definitely just has like a panic
attack and he goes like, oh crap, I'm literally annihilating like my friends and brothers.
Like, oh my God.
Oh my God.
And then Cor Farron's like, pull it together, boy.
I just don't think it's S tier because I don't know.
I feel-
Have you, we'll say from the book perspective, particularly not them, a lot of like even
the poor people who read Iron Hand books.
The Iron Hand, like basically the entire Iron Hands like cast, even their first captain
just basically gets gutted.
Like you lose so many-
And not only that, they also get like, you have, is it Gareth Orendi, who's one of the
Raven Guard, he actually like makes them, so that he can escape with his Raven Guard
men.
He like sets them up for traps where they get sacrificed so his men can survive.
You're like, oh, you naughty boy.
Eww.
There's a really sad one in, there's a Salamander short story where Cor Farron is like, oh,
because they don't, they don't all die immediately.
Some of them like just survive and get hunted down.
And then there's a bit where like some of the Salamanders, they have like one of them
like there's a squad and they have like a scout with them.
And he's like one of the younger members, but he's like being, he's trying to be brave
and he jumps a chasm and he gets shot.
And then they're like, no way.
And then they basically realized is they actually, he got shot by other Salamander survivors
and they basically like one guy runs like rips off his helmet.
Like, oh my God, what have I done?
Yeah.
So like, again, a lot of them hid under their bodies or basically gutted, some of them got
friendly fired and things like that.
So yeah, it is stinks.
I think it, it makes me more sad than his fan three personally, but that's cause I like
the Fulgrim book a lot.
Yeah.
Ferris does get his head cut off.
That does hurt.
And then Fulgrim basically, you know, has a mental breakdown.
I don't think it's like Shadrach raise the storm lad, raise the storm.
Oh, how many casualties were in, were there more or less casualties?
Oh, loads.
Cause I think it's like hundreds of thousands.
This was three entire legions that got hit.
Cause the four traitor legions have like, have their numbers more or less half, not
just because of the purge of the loyalists, but also they didn't have a good time fighting
the loyalists.
It took them longer than they expected.
Menhans alone have like over a hundred thousands space Marines.
Salamanders and Raven guard are a bit smaller, but then you consider like, I think it's something
like the Raven guard lose 90% of their men or 80%.
Oh, that's a lot of numbers.
I think this is a worse tragedy than his fan three.
In terms of numbers, it is.
It's just there's less character driven stories than his fan three.
There's less main character deaths.
And it's a slaughter, not a siege.
And like, it's like having, like you said, like with the book perspective, I haven't
read it's probably a lot worse, but like from an out, like just a wider as an event, it's
like, this isn't like Istvan three where it's, you know, the same Legion brother fighting
brother.
It's the first action of a war.
And it's also, sorry.
I say, and it's one hell of a sucker punch and it definitely sucks, but it's just, I
don't know for me, it doesn't have the same like punch.
And it's also worth remembering that in Istvan free, all the prior marks are traitor involved
in this one.
So Ferris dies, Vulcan technically dies, then gets captured and tortured and Korax has to
escape.
And it's like, Oh, so you lost two.
Oof.
I think we had a donation by bunny cop.
He says, he quotes, we will die on our own terms, self detonation, dreadnought reactor,
RIP those two death guard.
Yeah.
Pyrrhon followed Temeter.
I think that the Istvans can go together.
I think.
Yeah, I think so.
And I might argue just from respective, should we downgrade the birth of Sonesh just because
there's no character?
I see.
Like I'm not feeling it's, I'm not feeling it's in that echelon anymore.
Yeah.
We'll say though, Istvan 3, 10,000 years later had a happy ending.
Fulgrim gets surprised by Rizvah.
So not as tragic then.
No, but it's glad he got what was finally coming to him 10,000 years later.
What, someone roasting him?
The next one though, again, this is just a battles one, but this one is essentially the
battle for Moloch.
And this is essentially where Horus, they attack this heavily defended world and this
is where Horus enters the warp and essentially becomes the proper war master in terms fully,
fully evil rather than just a bit of a cock.
The battle of Moloch itself is quite, it's not super tragic, but there's like some events
in it, which was, one of them is there was like a blood angels, well there's an ultramarine
contingent stationed on there and essentially all of them get massacred and they all, a
lot of them like throw themselves at Horus and they all give their lives to the last
man.
The blood angels contingent on Moloch, this is the sector in the heresy by the way, they
are the ones where they come across the angels crucio, the red angel demon that was made
up, basically when they failed at Sakeness Prime to corrupt Sanguineous, they made like
a basically a black rage demon and the blood angels on that planet were confronted by this
demon and it was like, yes, turn, basically it was doing the city's like, yes, turn to
the dark.
Give in to your hatred.
The blood angels rather than surrender to this rage building and then they actually
all did a mass seppuku essentially, and the lazy took their blades and then they went
up through their skulls and it was like, oh god.
So this one is actually really like, when you read it, it's like, oh man, and um...
I've just done that with a bolter, Christ.
Yeah.
You have it.
They do that rather than get corrupted.
Is this the one with House Divine in it, the night house?
Yeah, the night house corrupted by...
Sledish, yeah.
So that one's kind of weird.
It's not the most tragic event in the heresy, but it is essentially, it is where Horus in
a quote unquote dies or something, or basically becomes the war master as well.
He's committed to the bit now.
And he also, this is where the night errant, the ones who like proto grey knights, they
also above this world try and mark out the vengeful spirit for Leman Russ's, you know,
video, whatever suicide attack and Loken and loads of other members get captured.
And then one of the characters who we've been following since the early books, I can't remember
which one his name is.
It's one of the other, um, Luna wolves, one of the other, not Severin, cause he...
Oh, you, um, Yecton Cruz, the half-herd.
This is the guy who was like basically the old geezer of the Legion.
And he's the one who basically he's, he escorts, um, Euphrates Keele from the vengeful spirit
before on this farm three.
So she doesn't die.
And he basically gets his two heart Horus basically plunges his claw and takes out his
two hearts, just stands there on his throne, like twiddling them.
Yeah.
So he gives Loken his moment to, uh, to basically not turn.
And he was also the one who shot a dark angel when they infiltrated Caliban.
He's like, ah, and he's like, we've got to listen, lad, we've got to do what we got to
do.
It's just a dark angel.
Oh, Yecton.
I didn't read the boy.
Cause I didn't read them in order.
Like a lot of the books, I wasn't like, I was like, who the hell is this guy?
And then I read all the other stuff.
I was like, oh, damn it.
It's basically like kind of, he's based like a catachan in, in this guy.
He's cool.
And, uh, but being molecules, like the molecule was a huge battle as well.
The traitors didn't actually, it had three, no, it had two legions.
So the death guard and sons of Horus and they, they didn't actually that really win the battle,
but the Imperium essentially lost so much because of it.
Cause they, a whole like night house eventually, like they literally threw a night house at
Horus.
They managed to isolate him and then they were crunked.
And he went, nah, uh, by the way, we got a donation from Douglas Watson for $2.
I believe those, or is that euros?
That's a euro.
As an I and an army owner, I appreciate the S tier.
There you go.
Fantastic.
I hadn't mentioned people are going to, um, I don't know what you guys would be.
Big bushy beard.
Who's this?
Are we happy with living in Moloch in B though?
Uh, Moloch is, uh, so it's not the most tragic.
Oh yeah.
You put it pretty low down to be honest.
Big bushy beard.
It's space.
It's a shame.
This one is a shame.
So this one, does anyone want to explain this one for the, the, the lovely people in the
chat for that?
Space Wolf plot armor.
Yeah.
Yeah, maybe.
Should I give a free vote?
Yeah, go for it.
So there was this thing, right?
Cool.
The first war for Armageddon.
Pretty bad.
Uh, demonic invasions.
Not very nice.
Uh, so eventually the Imperial was like, right.
Armageddon is really important.
This is the first time it's been invaded.
We're going to send the space walls and the gray nights to clear up the demons.
Space walls are doing a pretty good job.
Gray nights come in absolute wash.
Yeah.
We've won the first war for Armageddon.
Angron gets cranked.
Everyone's a winner.
Except whenever you get the gray nights involved, they have a tendency, I say a tendency, more
like a duty in their eyes to kill anyone involved with even a sniff of chaos, uh, potential
corruption and the space walls, as much as people don't like the space walls a lot, they're
pretty much like very heroic and very much like, oh, we will, we will defend the innocent
and civilians because even though we're kind of barbaric warriors, everyone loves us because
we're always saving the civilians.
And so when the gray nights are like, we're going to kill all the children, the space
walls like, no, you're not.
And so then there's a war between loyalists, space walls versus gray nights.
I want to mention one thing about space walls.
This is not related to this thing, but it's in the Ragnar Black main book where it's his
first space battle and the space walls are like at war and they're like invading a chaos
ship and they essentially make it back to their own ship that just in time.
And there's like the bit where their leader goes, we should cheer for our fallen brothers.
And basically like they're like, yeah, like they're all, and then Ragnar Black main is
like, oh yeah, yeah.
And then, then the ship explodes outside the enemy ship and they all go like, yeah, they're
even louder.
And then the leader Benji goes, and now we're going to have some ale.
And then it says like this says in wording specifically, this was the loudest roar by
far.
And it was so deafening that Ragnar Black main couldn't hear for a bit because they
were always going to start drinking.
The champions of protecting the innocent and alcoholism.
We love the space walls.
They're just goofy goobers.
I'll give them that.
They're the legion I'd most want to hang out with.
Yeah.
And to be fair, I think it was DJ B said like, you know, not much of a fan of the space walls
but the Inquisition get an L. I'm here for it.
They managed to kill a group, not the Grandmaster, but a...
No, it's not a grandmaster of the Grey Knights.
So they kill one of the top six guys or Logan Grimnard does because it's Logan Grimnard.
Which is very sad as well because...
Logan Grimnard, I'm my special chaos here.
Is that how he speaks?
Is it?
That was the Grey Knight who also helped defeat Angron.
Sorry, sorry.
Colin, could you do another impression of Logan Grimnard?
That was exceptional.
Logan Grimnard is my special chaos here.
I'm 13 and this is deep.
I hope that's canonically when the next book comes out, he'll say, and I think my space
walls into the grey and I didn't like chaos.
I personally, I love Space Wolf Plot Armor because it makes the haters so angry.
I'm haters.
It's a see then cope moment for all the Space Wolf haters.
I think it's only cool when the Ultramarines do it.
I will add to this as well.
Basically the survivors of the first War of Armageddon, they're all being euthanized or
made infertile by injections from the Inquisition.
And then the moment the Space Wolves go, that's kind of weird and wrong.
They basically get attacked by the Inquisition.
They turn up at Fenris with the Dark Angels and Grey Knights because I think isn't it
a changeling is actually one of the members of the Inquisition who's plotting this.
And they basically start attacking the Space Wolves and one of their planets.
One of their planets I think is pretty heavily damaged.
And then essentially the Imperium just starts fighting itself.
Again, the Grandmaster who died from the Grey Knights.
I think of all the Grey Knights, like a hundred Grey Knights fought the Demon Prime Angron
and only like a handful of them survived.
And then that guy gets killed by Logan Grimnar essentially in a parley.
He basically catches him off guard where he's not ready to fight.
He's just like, oh I'm dead.
Because he insults the Space Wolves and Logan Grimnar goes, that's kind of not my thing.
And then just slams his axe into his chest.
So he actually got baby mad.
Big words for someone who doesn't have vocal cords anymore.
I think Logan's like, big words for someone who has an axe in their stomach.
Like what?
It's a...
And yeah, so basically loads of people and then even the ships that were surviving, the
people that the Space Wolves managed to save, the Inquisition started hunting them down
and they started exterminatizing, if that's even a word, like planets that had like say
one survivor of Armageddon and Anta on that planet, that planet was exterminated.
So that's why it's called them.
And then basically after the changing was revealed, it'd be like the Inquisitor.
And then basically the Cranites went, oh we should have probably pulled out earlier.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
That was bad.
They had that post-combat clarity at that point.
Post-combat clarity.
But that's why it's called the Months of Shame because they were very much just like billions
and billions of people died.
And to this day, the Space Wolves do not allow Inquisitorial vessels anywhere near Fenris.
They're like, if we see you, we will shoot you on sight because we don't like you anymore.
Where does everyone think this should go though?
After having said all that piece because it's pretty bad.
Yeah.
I think it's pretty bad.
It's not worse than the first Black Crusade, surely.
Yeah.
What do you guys, what do you call them?
Worse than the men of Iron?
I don't think I should be the deciding vote on this one.
Oh, you have to say it.
You have to say what you think.
D for destroy Space Wolves.
Yeah.
Maybe not.
I think it deserves A. I think it's just because it sounds so bad.
It's worse than the Black Crusade.
Actually, maybe not.
Maybe the Black Crusade goes up one.
Yeah.
Maybe there?
The one who ported died.
It was, you know, a Grandmaster, an unnamed, like-
I think he was named.
He was probably invented for the- I meant like, he was invented for that port to die.
Yeah.
I think Harry says that's perfect.
So maybe we'll leave him there.
Yeah.
Very nice.
The next one though-
From it's Welcome to the Bone Zone.
This one is the biotransfer and slash death of the Necron tier.
Does anyone want to have a quick just explain explanation of what that is for the uninitiated?
The Necron's- the Necron tier at that point fought against the Old Ones in order to both
get the secret of either eternal life or not having super cancer from the Old Ones.
They lost the war and then they found the Catan who they gave bodies of living metal
and then the Catan made them a deal like, hey, we'll make you super powered.
We'll give you so much more strength.
We'll free of your, you know, horrible, horrible wasting bodies.
As long as you just help us kill the Old Ones, would you want to do anyway?
Right?
Isn't that a great deal?
And then pretty much all but one of the ruling Necrons was like, yeah, that's great.
Or it can the Diviner was like, no, that's awful idea.
Don't do it.
And no one listened to him.
So they underwent biotransference the entire Necron to erase and the Catan ate their souls
and put them in living metal bodies.
And they were now the soulless Necrons and they, they killed the Old Ones.
And they, the, the, the, the twice dead king book describes it as they are like, they,
the entire race, which is like crowded on their home world just has to march towards
it at these massive furnaces.
They burn them alive and then the people, the people die along the way because they're
just, you know, super cancer.
Yeah, there's like summer too, like cancer ridden and frail to walk.
So people are carrying them on like funeral buyers.
And then eventually they're like, he's dead.
And they just drop him.
All right, keep marching, keep going, keep going.
And you're like, oh, that's pretty bleak.
Yeah.
And then they get command protocol.
So the silent king is basically like can force control over them.
And there will never be another new Necron slash Necron tier after this because the entire
race essentially dies and gets copied into metallic bodies.
They're not like soul transferred.
I don't think they're actually like a copy.
Also 99% of them have no personality anymore.
It's just the Necron warriors, like ghost of a ghost of a personality in there.
Oh, water prints.
Welcome, brother.
Praise the Lord of the Sire.
We'll talk about this.
But keep it on my boys.
It's tragic.
This is terrible.
Soft pensions dancing man.
And first of all, that's a mouthful of a name.
Good man.
Second of all, hell yeah.
That is too fair.
That is right.
He is correct.
Overfall, Katie.
My man.
Where does everyone want to put this though?
Where does everyone want to put the...
It's pretty sad.
It's sad, but also the Necrons are really hard to like.
What?
They're just like, oh, they're just very spiteful and like, hey, I'm a Necron.
And humanity isn't in this.
Yeah, yeah.
But like the fact that Altix in his book is described as like having the strange characteristic
of being compassionate.
It's like, you're not making it very easy to like, like space wolves are like barbarian
warriors, but they have like a good heart.
Those are just arseholes.
It's because they got their souls taken away.
No, but even before they, before then when they were like Necronteer, again, Altix was
characterized as being compassionate.
It's like, I get you have a bad hand with all the like.
It's all the, but this is like, it's the death of all the good Necronteer as well though.
Only arseholes were doing this.
I do agree with what Andy's saying in the sense of they kind of brought it on themselves,
but I think the stance of anyone is worse than anyone else.
Like, I mean, it does.
Yes, the evil, but like Necrons versus Imperium and a Moralevian.
Here's the thing Colin, but then again, Eldar in the equation, they kill a lot of Eldar.
I know you like your Eldar.
They do, but by this point in the war, they're still at the point where the Eldar are fully,
you know, balls on the table, full psychic might.
And Cain is, you know, uncharted and able to actually do things.
I think it's, this is A at least.
It's like, it's basically the equivalent of the fall of the Eldar.
Yeah, I'll give it A tier.
And it is like, like the war in heaven is the event that turned 40k into such a shit
show way down the line.
Like it ruined the Sea of Souls turned into the warp and chaos and shit.
It's just for the Necronteer themselves, very sad.
All of any of the potentially good ones probably lost their personality because it's just mostly
the power hungry nobles left that have any individuality.
It's also, it's just like, you kind of did that to yourselves.
To fair Eli then also got more Xenos for the setting.
So he's not that upset about it.
And we killed them all once they got what they deserved.
That's true.
Ribbit, ribbit.
Pretty awesome.
Speaking of the next one though, this one's probably not quite as bad, but this one is
the Octarius war, which is like a recent thing, which they kind of just left alone after.
I don't know.
Yeah, it happened.
Do you want to briefly explain the Octarius war just for reference?
Cryptman in his infinite wisdom decided that the Tyranids are ever growing and always,
you know, every time they consume a planet, they, you know, they get stronger.
The orcs, every time they leave a fight, come out of it stronger.
What if we just throw those two factions against each other and then when one of them wins,
we can come in and finish off the weakened one.
Except the problem was the Tyranids kept going stronger and stronger because they were eating
more and more orc biomass and the orcs kept getting stronger and stronger because they
were fighting just 24 seven nonstop.
So instead of weakening either faction, it was like he just pumped them both full of
steroids and the black Templars threw themselves in the middle of it.
That also happened, but like, okay, why did they do that?
I'm just mentioning a picture of him, Cryptman just there with like, I mean, just going,
mistakes were made.
It's like, yeah, just a couple.
The biggest whoops ever.
But the consequences of this entire war was that many, like an entire Imperial system
got decimated and essentially the hive fleet basically found the orc stronghold and just
went, ignore the Imperials, went balls to the wall attacking this last bit and they
eventually did manage to wipe the orcs.
So basically all the Tyranids got loads of a huge amount of biomass and essentially there's
this massive hive fleet now, which is first of all experienced, has consumed the biomass
of strong orcs and now they incorporate that into their own DNA and they are basically
fed like full.
So they're ready to fight.
The Imperium is and the Imperium has the Imperium, by the way, could contain it when it was trying
to contain, as in like it tried to fight the outskirts of the orcs versus the Tyranids.
It couldn't take either one of them on individually.
And essentially now this war has led to what might be like a ridiculous tragedy of the,
well, this was a tragedy in making because the Imperium.
I don't think we can really count it as a proper tragedy yet because nothing's come
out of it yet.
It's like Octarius itself was just like, like you said, a big oops.
It's like, you know, Krypman, both of them thrive on conflict.
What was the end goal there?
The realistic end goal.
The thing is, you know how a lot of famous last week we were talking about the Necron
Lords and about how Imotech hates the orcs and he wants to kill them all and the Silent
King hates the Tyranids because they're going to, it's like just both of them meeting each
other and like having a bit of a scrap and all of a sudden they look at the Octarisex
and they're just going, oh, come on guys, you're making it worse for, like let's team
up and sort this out because this is, neither of us want this.
This is bullshit.
Imperium, why?
Why?
Why are you like this?
Do you think you should, where should it go in the list?
I don't know what it would teach you.
Like above the Damocles crusade, because like I don't think that's a tragedy at all.
But like that's like just a tragedy in the making at most.
Because as the Octarisex war is, first of all, metal is hell because the whole planet
was basically just orcs and Tyranids as far as I can see.
And every now and then there'd be an Imperial guard outpost sitting there, probably crying
profusely for the mess of a planet they were on.
And on that it was just a sea of green and like red.
Speaking of something that might be a bit hard on the next one.
This one is the destruction of the Pharos beacon slash the death of Barabbas Dantioch.
I didn't really want to do too many character things, but this one might be the most tragic
event in terms of like as in how it's written for people listening.
The Pharos beacon was a thing during the Horus heresy.
It has a consequence I'll get to in a bit, which I think Colin knows quite, quite, quite
well, which was the Pharos beacon was essentially like the Astronomicon people, they were all
cut off during the Horus heresy from that, like a big swath of the Imperium.
Gilliman in the Imperium Succundus, like temporary empire he set up.
They had this Pharos beacon on the planet of Sotha, which basically acted like a communication
hub and also like a mini Astronomicon slash North Star onto McCragg.
And teleporter.
Yeah, teleporter as well.
The nightlaws decided that was cringe and decided to invade.
Imagine how much like raiding we can do with this thing.
Like you guys have one goal and it's terrible and you should stop.
You should get some help.
Naughty boys.
And basically ended up being essentially as well as the first layer of tragedy is that
the defenders of the Pharos beacon were actually members of the broken Legion.
So like members of Iron Hand, Salamanders and Raven guard and some white scars were
the defenders with some alterings as well.
And also Imperial Fist as well.
Apologies.
These like basically the ones who got shafted at Istvan, a lot of them had made their way
to McCragg and then were sent to defend this Pharos beacon.
They all end up dying.
Pharos Dantioch and Alexis Pollux is essentially a iron warrior and Imperial Fist who notoriously
they forever into the modern set, like the 40k part.
Those two hate each other so much because obviously the biggest, you know, huge rivalry
between their Primarchs.
But eventually they become like essentially best friends and they make like a true bond.
And eventually Barabas Dantioch gives his own life to sort of sabotage the Pharos beacon
so the Night Lords can't use it.
And his death is really sad because it's actually the only time you ever see a Space Marine
cry.
Alexis Pollux cries for Dantioch's death because he's, you know, he was once his enemy and
then he loved him like a brother.
And he even says like when Gilman does come to reinforce them, he growls at people like
don't touch my, he was my brother, only I will hold him.
And then they give him like a warrior's funeral as like a hero of the Imperium.
It's honestly pretty like in the book is very like, oh, you know, I mean, you basically
like, Jesus Christ.
I think Andy, you might've said when you made a video on it.
Like people, when you read the excerpt out, often people do get more emotional.
I get comments on my video all the time.
Just like, oh, why, why is this?
Who's chopping onions?
It's very sad.
It's the only time you see someone like really like, they're all meant to be soldiers.
So they're not meant to get upset or, you know, meant to move on and fight the next
battle.
So it's the only time you ever see one guy like properly mourn for another friend and
be like, you know, why we could have lived.
I'd love to see a montage of them when they're like best buds and nothing's wrong.
Just them just going, just the two of us, we'll build castles in the sky.
Also, the next part of the tragedy, I think Colin, do you want to explain what happened
when the pharaohs died?
I've a couple of times said this, I know.
In the real world, you know, it made a, it made a pretty big explosion in the warp.
It made a very big explosion and that explosion was so bright that thousands of light years
away it caught the attention of the Tyranid hive mind, who then realized that Milky Way
equals food and promptly shifted courses directly to Milky Way.
It's basically the Tyranids.
This is the death slash rise of the Tyranids.
I think it may be, again, if someone hasn't really read the book, it's hard to kind of
convey how sad this is, but just the Tyranid consequence, I feel like it does put it in
a nest here at least.
Maybe just below Eandon, because I feel like that was more of like a whole craft world
died.
You could just make Barabas for that little goof.
Yeah, technically Barabas' fault the next one above it.
So that was pretty bad.
We've got a donation.
Oh, do you want me to read it?
Yeah, sure.
From incoming back up, Squiggly30, I'm not sure what that is, just joined the stream
and for some reason the death of Boingob isn't in SSS here.
Oh my god, we forgot about him.
Truly shameful.
I did not give you the knowledge of Boingob for you to disrespect him as such.
Hold on, let me process.
Can we get a Boingob in the chat?
Just see if I can find a picture.
Can we quickly put Boingob?
Although it's not quite 40k.
His death transcends tragedy across time and space.
Let me just find a picture of him quickly.
For those who didn't catch the previous streams, Boingob is the father of all squigs.
In Age of Sigmar.
I can't remember how he died, did he get...
He tried to eat the son of Heisch, the realm of light, then it burned him.
He tried to eat the son of...
My man got rotisserie chickened.
Boingob is a bit of a spiritual animal for this.
I can't think about Boingob again.
There we go, we fixed it, sorry.
We won't do that again.
Fucking Boingob.
He's back.
You cannot get rid of him.
The next one though, I didn't mean one with the horrors here, but this is kind of like
in a...
It's not really one event, but it's multiple, which is the disappearance of the Primarchs.
So this is all of their sort of things, how that would have consequences on the setting.
Obviously it can be Corvyn's Korraks basically crying his eyes out and leaving the tower
a year after, basically going, you know, Edgar Allan Poe, and then leaving.
Basically, he's like, nevermore.
It would have been more tragic if they didn't bring them back.
This is like all of the ones after the heresy, right?
Yeah, this is post-Sigmar Terror.
I don't think this should really be higher than B, because the thing is all of them have
died or disappeared in a way that's pretty clear.
If they need to come back or if GW wants them back, they will come back.
Even Rogal Dorne, they found his hand, but they never found his body.
That's one of the biggest, he's just on a bus, he'll be back later off screen.
All of the Primarchs after the heresy are perfectly primed to come back.
It sucks for the Imperium, and it's bad, and I know it is a meta reason, but you can't
reverse it.
In-universe, it's pretty bad for them.
It's just like, I don't know, I can't shake the whole feeling of like, yeah, they're not
dead.
They're very much not dead, especially some of the Corvus, you know.
He's just in the warp, fucking with Lorgar.
Giliman is back, the lion was technically part of the heresy, but he's old, but he's
back.
I mean, there's also, I guess maybe the consequence of them leaving, or them disappearing, is
basically the grimdark universe.
Had a Primarch been around, Volkan was still around, he was kicking for a while, and it's
still to crap.
Is everyone happy to leave it there and beat it though?
I think it's not the worst, but it did have consequences that were pretty...
Yeah, but I think the Imperium was on a downward spiral, no matter if they were around or not.
It was just maybe they could have mitigated it a little bit.
It also hits the feels, because obviously we all like Primarchs, so, you know.
Miss you boys.
The next one though, this is basically the burning of Prospero.
This is a tragedy because it was...
El Paso Rejo, Thousand Suns fans.
That hurts.
Essentially, Horus tricked the Space Wars, instead of arresting Magnus for...
The Webway thing I'm counting in a different thing, so it's not part of it.
I've got some stuff to say about that one.
Yeah, that's the last one.
Essentially, Magnus was meant to be arrested, but Horus, you know, telling Traitor, changed
the orders for Leman Russ, and joined by Sisters of Silence and Custodes.
They essentially burned all of Prospero, the home planet, or the Thousand Suns, and the
Thousand Suns Legion, basically to the ground.
I mean, soldiers that, you know, marines that fought with each other, to be fair, in the
same book, not that long before, then had to like fight each other.
The Thousand Suns, they were not ready for this at all, and so Magnus disabled their
shields because he thought it was better to let one Legion die, rather than, you know,
ruin the power balance in the Imperium.
Is it Izakar?
I can't remember his name.
Ifakar, whatever his name was.
One of his captains was like, you do know the Space Wars are coming?
He's like, yeah.
It's like, we should like defend the civilians.
And Magnus is like, no.
Kills him.
Listen, that great shot, 77.
The burning of nerds is not appropriate, okay?
This is tragic.
Because also, in the book, it goes over like the citizens of Prospero, who were kind of
innocent in all of this, basically get blasted from space.
Like many people like hiding in their homes and stuff, and it's pretty horrific.
The Thousand Suns desperately tried to hold back.
Like, they think they just been randomly attacked by the Imperium for no reason.
And a lot of them just in their desperate defense, just go, fuck it.
And they just start using their powers too much, and they basically get flesh changed
in the middle of the fire and turn into monsters.
Chaos spawned.
Fun.
Chaos spawned.
Getting chaos spawned is not fun, I imagine though.
And basically, nearly the entire Legion gets destroyed.
And then when it's the last moment, Magnus decides he's not...
When they burn down the library, by the way, Magnus goes, okay, that's too far.
That's too far.
And because they basically like, you can kill my sons and my Legion and my legacy, but touching
that knowledge, that could be useful to humanity.
Okay, you know, Leman Rossi, you barbarian idiot, you've gone too far.
Again, wisely destroy the libraries.
No one's quite sure.
By the way, we got a donation of two pounds from Conrad Kerr saying, much love from the
Night Haunter.
Thanks, mate.
Thank you.
Thank you, though.
I love you too.
And Magnus does get his back snapped by Leman Rossi during that.
And then essentially they get corrupted by Zeent at the end because he gives in to Zeent's
offer.
So that's the burning of Prospero.
I think it is quite...
Particularly on the book side of it, it is quite sad because even on the Thousand Sun
side and the space wall side, they're very much like, we don't really want to, but we
have to.
And they kind of...
Like a lot of them, again, my favorite part, the Thousand Suns make fun of the fact that
some of them charge in unhelmeted, so they start popping them like we're just shots.
The space walls are stupid sometimes.
And some of the Thousand Suns, all of their friends just basically die because they're
like, you know, the Imperium has betrayed us, they think, in a way.
It's pretty...
And then all the people of Prospero, only a few people survive.
It's basically like the nightlords in Nostromo, the people who are still Nostroman who live,
they basically live on ships now.
That's it.
By the way, we've also got a 15 Squigglees donation from incoming backup again saying,
also, when are you doing an AOS tragedy tier list?
Because genuinely, AOS has some fucking tragedies like Trump, a tired boy that will never sleep
again.
Well, we could do a fancy and AOS one.
That could be...
I think Colin would actually do...
Well, the end time would just be...
End time.
We should do a fancy one.
I can put that together.
Where does everyone want to put this one though?
It's the four of Prospero.
It's not as fan-said.
I'd give it like A tier at most.
Yeah, I guess a goober is a good word for me.
It's between A and B for me, just because it's like over in an instant, in a way.
I'd say I'll give bottom of A or top of B.
Yeah.
I think that's better.
I'm more tied to it over the Black Crusade, because you don't see one character death
in the Black Crusade, really, that you feel bad for, whereas the Fall of Prospero is...
The Thousand Sons roster gets halved, and you spend the entire book with them, and they
basically die.
The next one though is basically quite similar.
This one is the Rubric of Auremun, which is the final nail death for the Thousand Sons.
It's probably worse than...
He tries to put them in D for don't care, because nerds...
I mean, he tries to save them, doesn't he?
He tries to do a magical thing to save them from the flesh change, and ends up turning
them all into mindless dust automatons, and only a thousand plus, was it a couple thousand
of them ever remain.
I feel like they probably maybe wouldn't have been turned to chaos if this didn't happen.
They could have just been their own thing.
Yeah.
It's pretty...
Auremun's a goober.
Auremun is probably the only PPP who actually understands what he's done though, so he's
the one who feels terrible about it.
Yeah.
Maybe top a B for it.
Maybe less than the Black Crusade, because it's not that many Thousand Sons.
I think it's compounding on an already existing tragedy, so it definitely sucks for them.
It's competing against the same thing already having happened.
Yeah.
So now they kind of double down on it.
And it does kind of get old that Auremun's just kind of like, I'll get it right this
time, I promise.
Like, you said that last time, dude.
How many times are you going to try this?
He's the guy who can't cook, telling you, like, he's inviting you over for dinner.
So it's like, you know what I mean?
Do I risk it?
What are we having for dinner, Auremun?
Microwaved chicken.
I discovered seasoning today.
It'll be fine.
It's like, you don't know what you're doing.
This is salt.
I saw that Instagram video where the guy says, I'm just browning off the chicken, and it's
like you can see it's still raw in the middle, and then people go like browning it off.
That thing is still walking around clucking.
That thing is so white it blends into snow.
The next one, there's a bit of a bit more heavy hitter.
This is the War of the Beast.
I'm not sure if I want to explain this one, just for the uninitiated.
The orcs, orc slash orcs, a little bit weird, known as the beast, rose to power and started
basically upgrading the entire orc race into the croc they once were, like super orcs.
With good music, apparently.
Indeed.
And killed off the imperial fist, literally to a man.
There was one dude left.
And then he died.
And then he died, but they, and it was so bad.
The iron warriors teamed up with imperial fist successors and nearly brought the imperium
to its knees.
Although that being said, it does kind of just end.
Volkan comes out in retirement.
For whatever that means.
Volkan died okay.
He did that like 20 times during the heresy.
He blows himself up in it, right?
Yeah.
Doesn't he like tackle one of the beasts into a reactor?
Yeah he tackles it into like a wah furnace thing and it blows up and everyone's like,
oh that's good, we killed the beast.
And he's like, there's more!
It would be like if Darth Vader basically went down the shaft with Palpatine instead
of like throwing it.
You know what it is Colin?
It's the bit where George sacrifice himself and goes tell him to make it count and then
a dozen more show up and you're like, oh no.
I don't want to think about that.
I don't think it's that much for tragedy.
It definitely has some tragic moments to it, but a lot of it is also just like, it's a
war against the orcs.
It's a really big deadly war against the orcs, but like in terms of tragedy, it's not like,
you know, like.
Yeah.
And it's only really the imperial fist that suffers, so it's okay.
There's like three imperial fists tragedies on this show.
Yeah.
It fucking sucks to be an imperial fist is what I'm learning.
There's one imperial fist left after their initial fight and then he rallies, he calls
the last war protocol, so he rallies all of the successors of Dawn and then he dies at
the end of it.
So the imperial fist chapter technically dies for a little bit.
Yeah.
And then the excoriator's chapter master becomes the new Lord Command.
I think that might be Maximus Fane.
I think he's also, isn't the new chapter master?
He was actually a character who was alive during the.
Yeah, he was during the heresy.
Yeah, that guy was like 2000 plus years old or something.
So he was an imperial fist initially.
Yeah.
Close enough.
Yeah, he fought with like Fafnir and Ascalon and stuff during the Siege of Terror.
It's whatever had happened.
Weirdly enough, isn't the soul drinkers are there too?
Oh, he's the fist exemplar chaplain.
Yeah.
Are they still alive at this point?
The soul drinkers.
Oh yeah.
Yeah, they were around.
It was only like a few thousand years, like 32nd millennium.
But I've got a weird theory.
You know, people say like how in the soul drinkers stuff like later, like, oh, their
gene seed is not imperial fist.
Because I think it might, you know, like there's a theory like lost Primarchs were shunted
into other legions, like mostly ultramarines.
I think maybe some of them might've been shunted into imperial fists and essentially the gene
seed.
Like if they're making gene seed from something, it might've just been like, oh, you're not,
you're technically lost Primarch.
They did their 22 and me or their ancestry.com is just like redacted.
Like, what do you mean?
Oh, I want to know about my cut my great, great, great grandfather.
No, you're not.
Neon ass is a dawn of war three on the list.
If only that'd be up there with the one go up honestly.
Only maybe indeed because it's forgettable.
What is the biggest tragedy of our time?
Yeah, it did.
It ruined an entire franchise to that.
The last one, if Gabriel is not the next one here is the plan from start to finish.
The next one here is essentially the Magnus is fully slash webway getting ruined web web
war.
This project was due to failure from the start.
It like the tragedy is that the upper thought it would work to begin with just to recount
the events essentially the Emperor's grand plan is essentially make the Imperium unite
all of mankind and then shift it into the webway.
So chaos can't touch us.
And so he needs to have an, he has an opening of, of the webway beneath terror.
And basically he's put wards in place, guarding it from like chaos entry demons can't get
in but Magnus can with the help of a, you know, a disguised war.
It seems legit.
It's just some guy in the webway sort of proximity in the war.
I'm sure I can trust this guy.
Magnus breaks the wards and as soon as he arrives in the throne room, his spirit does,
he basically turns around and goes, what's that noise?
And there's here's like a horde of like demons like laughing and running like, Oh crap.
And essentially the custodians for the entire seat of terror because of the plot point they
needed to be and the sisters of silence, they basically fight a losing battle against demons
in like a lost the webway tunnels and like a lost Eldar ancient city in the webway.
And most of the, I think it's like 90% of the custodians die in this webway war.
Like they slowly bleed them completely dry.
They go from like the 10,000, 60 years long or something crazy.
They go from like the 10,000 host to the thousand host.
And despite, you know, people say, Oh, like there's a reason thing like, Oh, the king
in yellow is using like psychos and blanks to like seal the webway or whatever.
The sisters of silence are blanks and they were in the webway and they're still demon
prompts.
So it's not really a thing.
Um, but essentially, and then even some Imperial defenders like the mechanicus as well, like
a shunted in there, the Emperor gets stabbed by a demon that doesn't go poorly.
It goes pretty poorly.
You will one day become Abaddon's sword.
They have to sacrifice a thousand souls to the Emperor to then the Emperor eventually
goes, all right, we'll push them back a little bit.
And then he just seals the webway.
So now that plan to save humanity from being influenced by chaos completely dies.
Oh, but Magnus did nothing wrong.
Magnus did nothing wrong, guys.
I'd like to explain why it was an awful plan to begin with.
Right.
First of all, webway is like between the warp and real space.
It regularly gets like invaded by demons on a good day because like, you know, fall the
elder and everything and just 65 million years of degradation on top of it.
Already not the best place to be.
Second of all, there's the like the last meaningful Eldar God is hiding inside of it.
So you know, there's a bit of a problem you have to deal with.
It's cramped in there.
It's cramped and, you know, Kamara is also just hanging out in there.
Good luck with that one, Ems.
And of course, the Eldar, like it doesn't hide like humanity is slowly awakening into
a psychic race.
The dark Eldar like atrophied their psychic senses because otherwise Slenesh will just
find them in the webway and eat them.
The Emperor, knowing mankind is becoming a psychic race, was like, oh, you hide them
in the webway, ignoring the fact that the race...
He's got the same voice as Logan Grimnar.
He does.
Oh my God.
It's crazy.
It's like, you know, like the psychic race had to give up being a psychic race if they
were going to hide in the webway because otherwise chaos would just show up and shut up.
That happens despite the dark Eldar getting rid of their psychic powers.
Canes gate breaks and demons are over Kamara.
Like it was a plan.
The tragedies that he thought it would ever work to begin with.
It was a tragedy in the making, no matter what way you look at it.
It sounds more like a GW author skill issue at this point.
Probably, but it's also, it's the lore.
I don't know.
I feel like if it had gone into plan, Biggie would just be like golden lightning bolts
and be like, get wrecked bozos whenever anyone tries to like...
With all the legions and all the custodians and the Imperium and the Mechanicus, he'd
be fine.
But as it stands...
Yeah, but also would be like all of humanity is now confined to the webway.
Like if anything goes wrong, it's like the demons have...
You break into like...
Demons show up on a planet, right?
Sucks for that planet, but they're only on that planet.
They will either...
But then again, if for example, one day barring the forest, the Tyranids invaded one day,
they'd be safe from them because they'd be like, we're in the webway.
They're not going to get us.
It's fine.
Orcs and Tyranids and Necrons outside the webway, they can do what they like.
We're just going to chill in here.
They'd be safe because they'd all be dead by demons because the demons show up.
They don't need to like do any more rituals.
Just flood into that breach.
And every breach in the webway is another infinity you need to hold off.
When it happens in the real space, it's like, this sucks for that planet.
I mean, the Grey Knights were a rush job outside the Imperium after the end of the war.
I'm sure Biggie could have figured out like, let's make the Uber Knights or whatever they
be called and they just kill demons.
If it was about any problems.
Well, once that plan dies, the Emperor basically goes, I've got, I give, I hear him, we have
to hold on until basically the inevitable fall now.
Like that's the end.
There's also one-
Guess I'll die now.
Essentially.
There's also one more consequence, which was that like Malkadors says, like he confesses
something.
He says, me and the Emperor, we realized when we initiated the Great Crusade, like all the
billions of people who were probably going to die during it because of basically them
homogenifying humanity into like, you know, you're that, you can't be too damn virgin.
You're the Imperium.
Yeah.
They basically said we were willing to kill all those people for this eventual plan that
would somewhat, they call it the saving the species.
But then when the heresy starts, Malkador basically goes, the bit we actually feel guilty
for is the heresy part because the deaths after that are the ones we didn't account
for.
Like that wasn't meant to happen.
So therefore he says, basically all those people up to now have died for nothing.
Basically the Emperor's big gentrification project for the galaxy didn't go according
to plan.
No Starbucks is on every-
Because they never would have done the Great Crusade if they didn't think this plan was
going to work.
So that's how bad this plan is.
There's so many things that need to go right for the Webway to not collapse in on the Emperor's
feet.
So many different things need to go perfectly.
And if anything goes wrong, the whole thing is fucked.
The Emperor is a doer.
He does say as well, he says there's one human not brought in the Webway, the plan fails.
And I think it was the Custodi who says, like, isn't that crazy?
And the Custodi goes, he says to the Custodi, yes, it's hubris, but he says, when I see
the future, there's only this, it's like the Avengers endgame thing of like, you know,
this is like the one victory plan where he thinks they can win.
Yeah, this is like bugging Collins.
Also that is so unbelievably full of shit.
The Elder alone has 50 different ways to deal with chaos.
They kept the eastern half of the galaxy clean, Iandin and Beelton alone for like 6,000 years
straight.
The Necrons show up and are just like, I'm going to turn off the Eye of Terror.
Just no more.
It's gone.
There are so many ways to deal with chaos that don't involve hurting every human being
into a tunnel.
They had a lot of time to figure that out.
How tragic is this plan in terms of how poor is executed as well?
Top of D tier because, you know, it's better than the dam.
It is a tragedy and it strikes more feeling into me than the fucking Abyssal Crux.
But it's just like, I just, I hate that that's like, was the plan to save humanity.
Oh, there we go.
But that is, I think that in terms of tragedy, we might have to do a fantasy one clawing
because I honestly, this was actually quite a lot of fun.
I think we've done quite a good job though.
A lot of lore in this tier list.
Yeah.
Boingob though.
Dude, most tragic.
We do have one more list if people, it depends on everyone who has time for that as well.
If they want to go through it quicker if you want though.
This one's a bit of a different vibe.
Does anyone want to explain what we're going to be doing here?
Can I just double down on something I saw in chat?
Oh, go ahead.
Go ahead.
Digman88, the Emperor gets rid of the navigators.
Chaos proceeds to break the Webwhite.
Humanity has a second long night.
Like there is no happy ending with the Webwhite project.
It requires everything to be perfect for infinity.
Do you want my favorite part about this as well, Colin?
The Chaos Gods wouldn't have, the only reason this all happened is because the Emperor's
a threat to Chaos.
And so that's the whole like thing that sets it in motion.
If the Emperor didn't have a plan to do the Webway slash save humanity from being interfered
with by the Warp, the Chaos Gods would have never done the Horus Heresy.
Yeah, so literally like it's all his fault.
It's literally, no wonder Eli hates the Emperor so much sometimes.
God, it is all his fault, unfortunately.
Does anyone want to explain what the next quick tier list we're going to be doing?
This is extensive as the last one.
This is where children become adults.
This is where real warriors are made.
The Star Wars Battlefront 2 original Battlefront 2 map tier list.
I would like to just start us off strong and make a second tier, make an extra tier that
just says space battles like right below us.
They're all kind of the same thing really, but the space battles are so good in that
game.
Yeah.
What?
I don't know if they're all in their own category if you want to put them in one tier.
I mean just like just put them like the space battles and space fighting in that game is
great.
They're just all pretty much the same thing.
The question is though, do you, are you a guy who goes out and does the dogfights or
you the guy who's basically using a transport and just going into the ship to sabotage?
I do both.
Yeah, me too.
Depends on how I feel.
Put those in A. Give them the respect they deserve.
Or space yardman at least, come on.
They're all the same thing.
Dogfighting is the most fun, but like if you're playing PvP then you have to basically go
and blow up the enemy ship stuff.
Yeah, or you can just sit in your own ship from when they do it to you.
The question is though, what do you guys target first when you were doing it back in the day?
Because I would often go, I mean everyone just does engines, right?
I go for the two frigates first.
Because you can usually hide in the engines, can't you?
You can hide in the engine room at least.
If you get like you and a couple other people and so you just sit there and form a wall in
their engine room.
I have a confession to make.
I only ever played the first battlefront.
I never had the money to get the second one and it never went down in price because it
was so good apparently.
It's on Steam, Andy.
I guess you don't have a PC.
I can't play it.
There are some maps here I think which are reminiscent of the first game ones to be fair.
I remember playing it.
I think it was the original Xbox I played the first battlefront on for people who are
in the chat probably thinking they've never even seen one of those.
That's how long ago it was.
The first one up here though, I do believe is Coruscant.
S tier for sure.
No.
S tier for sure, it's such a cool map and if you play CIS you can be Darth Maul.
It's awesome.
Are we including the campaign bits in this too?
I'm thinking of the campaign particularly.
Because if we're including campaigns then Coruscant has got to be S tier.
It's the only map like you fight Jedi.
Oh and you have to sabotage the libraries as well.
Are we including the campaign or just like the maps and like service?
I think it would be both in that because that influences.
Then Coruscant has to be S tier.
Yeah I think it's awesome.
Try and remember in my head because the Jedi you can, or the hero characters, Anakin right?
Yeah, yeah it's Anakin because it's a Order 66.
I think in scrimmage mode it's Mace Windu though.
Yeah Mace Windu and Darth Maul.
I still love the Mace Windu.
Does anyone else do that thing where you just hop as high as you can as Mace Windu and then
just do like a dom dom dom.
Crimson glory.
Crimson glory brother.
Bless your soul crimson glory.
Thank you brother.
Thank you very much.
Love you all.
Wish these were longer but I'll show up when I can.
Also every map is S tier because the game itself has ascended past S tier.
Very true.
Big true.
My nostalgia goal was a F.
This is a tier list within everything already being S tier.
Could you imagine them remaking this with like long graphics?
We've got to be really stingent with what we're doing now because I think the day will
be far.
We'll be fair to them.
It's just all of these like every letter has an S in front of it.
Dagobah though.
Dagobah, if I remember correctly there's like a small bit where you can kind of go in some
tunnels.
There is.
There's a little tunnel.
But I don't remember playing.
I don't really play this one too much though.
Do you guys play Battlefield 3?
You don't metro that map where it's just.
You ever heard of it?
I don't replay Battlefield 3.
It's this map.
It's just like an underground metro station.
In the middle of the map is the death zone where it's both teams of 64 people run through.
It's like Normandy Beach with both sides with the attackers.
Dagobah is like that except it's not as fun.
Yeah, I didn't put a B tier.
I don't think there's like really any vehicles.
It's worse Fallujah.
Doesn't sound very appealing.
Why?
It's Fallujah but worse.
You can play Yoda, Darth Vader.
I don't feel strongly about it.
I also just never enjoyed playing the Rebels or Empire way more than.
Playing the Cold War stuff is way cooler.
Now Death Star.
I've enjoyed this one so much.
I think this is an S tier.
No, because the death corridor on the right.
We played with my brother-in-law the other day and we were losing significantly.
We'll just stream this one.
It's time to stream this as our next game.
I got Luke Skywalker and I just went down the freaking prison corridor and killed like
50 dudes in five seconds because all the AI just bunch up in the...
That's great.
It's grenade corridor.
It's such a maze of a map though.
If you get lost you're just screwed.
You can also sabotage the people who charge grenades on the door controls on the bit near
the laser as well so you can drop people.
It is funny to watch your friends fall off as well on that one command post.
That one idiot who gets the hero character and then immediately starts zooming past everyone.
You get past the grenades and the munitions in that initial corridor part and you base
this light saving entire team.
It's not S tier for me but I'm not going to fight...
I had so much fun on that one.
I'd be okay if it was bumped down to A tier but it can't be any lower than that.
Up above A maybe?
End or S tier.
There's no discussion.
Come on.
Is Wicked in it?
You get to shoot Ewoks.
Yeah, yeah, true.
And you get the cool scout trooper.
And the Ewoks in this one are way better than the Ewoks in the first game which have like...
The Ewoks in the first game were useless.
You're basically cannon fodder whereas this one you can actually fight back.
If you're playing with your mates you basically be a gang of Ewoks.
You can basically bully someone pretty hard.
Can we give Felucia a tier above S and just call it hell?
Above S?
Why above S?
You got the tree that wasn't made correctly so you have to jump up it if you want to.
There's also the...I looked at it and they're all called like Acklax or something.
The big spider monsters.
It's like, oh good, I'm not even fighting the enemy here.
I'm in pain but I love that map so much.
Is it Alia Secura?
Yeah, Alia Secura.
I think it's versus Grievous but I'm not 100% sure.
To be fair, there's some fun...you know you get past the initial heartbreak or the annoying
bit at the beginning and then you can kind of jump around and destroy the turrets.
That bit's a bit more fun but honestly I respect that map but I hate it.
I love it but I hate it at the same time.
Felucia will put some fucking hair on your chest.
Geonosis.
Geonosis goes in hell tier, surely.
This one is actually worse than the other.
There's no cover and the Geonosis are flying around everywhere.
You die in like five seconds unless you're in the little building just being a sniper.
It's fun but it's definitely hell.
To be fair, you get original clone skins.
I think it's the only map in the game with that.
You also get loads of vehicles on CISI which is fun but the map is...I actually think it's
worse than the original one because you know you had to destroy those silos in the first
game.
If you remember that.
So that was more enjoyable.
Definitely B tier though.
Hoth now.
Hoth.
Hoth is S tier.
S tier.
No, S tier, not hell tier.
Is there anyone else?
Although if you're the rebels, it is a tough battle.
It's fun though.
You can do the spinny thing with the speeders.
It's so cool.
Me and my brother got around the walker three or four times with the spinny thing and it
still didn't go down.
You were so sad.
I've only done it like ten times which sounds like a decent amount.
I would play this game every single day with my friends after school when I was a kid so
it's not that much really.
Guys, the trick is you have to be the second pilot.
The AI has to be the first pilot because then you just hit the tripwire and then it will
do the circling for you and then one time it will just end up.
It will fly straight into the head.
AT&T.
Because it doesn't care.
You just call it AT&T?
No, ATAT.
ATAT.
I do remember it was great fun playing Rogue Squadron 1 and 2 and you hit the tripwire
straight from playing Rogue Squadron 1 and 2 and you have the obligatory Hoth level.
You're like, I'm going to go around in circles.
It's so fun.
It is fun.
This is hell.
This surely Jabba's palace is hell.
It's dark.
The freaking pig guards one shot you.
Who the hell put the chat in my favorite?
You fall into the rain corp.
Half of your clone army falls into the rain corp.
And then you just have to stand in the stairway where all the joys come up and kill 50 of
them per grenade pretty much.
It's terrible.
Who put in the chat my favorite VTuber is Vsauce?
That's not a VTuber.
Hi there.
Hi guys.
Michael here.
Technically he's Vsauce.
He's on YouTube.
Jabba's palace.
Does anyone else get killed by those the tusks like the guards?
Yeah, the Gamora.
Yeah, they one shot you.
If you get the hero and then you still get one shot by the guards.
You're freaking Darth Maul going through the halls of poof.
We need to stream this game so bad.
It's taken out by a fucking pig.
Also, man, I didn't know how many times I...
Was that one bit as well?
There's like a square staircase part and it's just grenade hell.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
You kill 50 droids per grenade on that staircase.
What is this Call of Duty?
Because the rest of your clone army has fallen into the rank war pit and it's just like standing
there.
Same, you can't come around.
You get the true experience of holding the line.
Kamino's S tier.
I love this map.
It's so beautiful too.
Also to be fair, Campaign playing it as Boba Fett.
So you play as like the Imperials versus the clone troopers and Boba Fett is with the jet
pack on.
Any jet pack on that map is amazing.
And I maybe one time went a bit too hard on...
We're playing with some friends.
I was playing with friends of friends and then I went a bit too hard on that map and
they're like, all right, chill, bro.
I'm like, okay, sorry.
A lot of it is just sniper spamming all the turrets.
The turrets are pretty annoying on it, but other than that, it is really cool.
It really is.
Everything here is just S tier.
They want to put hell at the bottom because otherwise I'm going to put it in S tier again.
I love Flee.
Yeah, Flee's is doublest.
Yeah, Sly's is good there.
Kashyyyk is D day.
It's definitely S tier.
Not S tier.
I still have memories of me and my buddy were the last two clones out of, I don't know,
like 10 because you can't go down to one because then you die.
And we were being pushed back by the droids and there was like 50 droids left and we were
inside of the Wookie base.
And then out of nowhere, like 20 Wookiees just show up and kill all the droids for us.
And it was the biggest win ever.
We were like 10 years old.
It was such a prime memory.
The teddy bears are coming.
They're going to save us.
The campaign defense on that is, it goes so hard as well because you also have access
like the, what's like the land speeder type thing, like the little hover.
I don't know what it's called, but I know what you mean.
Yeah.
That one.
Because you get like a sacrificial lamb up in that top turret and you can basically hold
the line as long as you want for that.
And then obviously when you're defending it against like the unlimited AI, the CIS invasion,
that one is so much fun.
If you manage to like just live towards the end because you can basically be Yoda.
Mos Eisley is top of the best here.
It's got the hero versus hero.
Yeah.
Heroes.
Yeah.
It's got the toilet.
You'll never find them.
What's everyone's hero choice?
Darth Maul of time.
Why has no one said Chewbacca with their homing missile yet?
Cause no one, I never like get kills with it.
It was so much fun.
Cause you see it before that.
It's just fun to you.
You can launch it up and it's like, where am I going?
It's so hard to control it as well.
I'm not a big fan of Mos Eisley.
It has just instant action, like regular.
Yeah.
It's just the hero, the heroes versus villain mode is carrying it cause it's the only magic
you can play it on, but it is so fun because of that.
Yeah.
And you get to...
You have a like Star Wars character bar fight in that bar room.
Yeah.
It's like this little backwater town where nothing happens.
Like, what is all these heroes doing here?
This doesn't make sense.
If you let it roll out, isn't it?
The heroes end up winning.
But yeah, I think it's like, if you're not playing as the villains, the heroes are pretty
much guaranteed to win.
Does everyone else do that thing where I'm sure everyone did it, but does that look like
it's next to the redoubt, like rounded area, like round donut in the middle.
And then there's that little like broken ship, like the top of the map.
Does everyone else just go to that top position and mace wind to it?
Just to try and get one.
I would do it as Boba Fett and just shoot down like an asshole.
It's fun playing as Han Solo as well, just cause like all this Jedi around you're like,
Jesus my God.
Yeah, that's why mine's coming.
Mustafar is pretty cool.
It's not my favorite way.
I give it A or B.
It's better than Geonosis.
I like it more than Geonosis.
Yeah, playing it in instant action is not actually that fun, but doing the campaign
of that though, was like, you know, the actual like the push in to fight.
That one was actually quite a lot of fun.
I will give Geonosis some credit because it's one of the only maps that is like challenging
to win on.
Cause definitely, cause playing Star Wars Battlefront as an adult, it is definitely
way too easy if you're on the slightly winning side, right?
Or even on the other side, but Geonosis you can actually lose on cause there's no cover
at all, ever.
He will not let this point die.
You have to go across that like massive open bridge at one point.
Or you can just spawn on the big vehicle, the AT-whatever and just get in there and
just upshuttle.
I know like a fair bit of Star Wars, what the hell is a Megito?
That's the planet where Forehead Man gets obliterated on.
That's your first campaign mission.
Yeah, first campaign mission.
Which is a fun mission.
To teach you how to play the game.
Megito?
I like the map.
Like Mojito.
It's a nice map, but honestly I don't play that much.
It's also where Delta Squad robs a bank.
It also has the bridge.
The bridge is a really fun place to be fighting.
Oh, the place, oh, that's where you get shot down.
I see.
I don't play it that much to be fair about map, just because it doesn't come up as much
in instant action or anything like that.
It's cool as an opener though.
No boo boo.
I can hear the guys voicing every time.
I'm gonna, this is gonna be my only D tier.
I'm not a fan of boo boo.
Yeah, because you know what it does?
It's basically just, it's just two corridor map and you basically have to meet it.
It's like, it's just a square.
The thing, like it's a corridor, but there's also so many different corners that when it's
down to the last few enemies, you're hunting the entire map looking for the one battle
droid with AIs bugging out and he's sitting in a corner capturing a command post he already
holds.
I'll put it above Dagobah though, because there's that mission where you have to assassinate
the new queen of Naboo and she's guarded by Jedi.
Yeah, that's a pretty cool one.
I do like that.
Yeah.
Crimson Goy for $5.
Thank you.
Thank you, Crimson Goy.
Thank you.
He says Geonosis is Starship troopers in Star Wars.
It's very true.
Oh, police, Massa, this is the asteroid one.
I really like this one.
Police, Massa.
What?
But if you're playing against your friends and if you don't get to that one choke point
first, you're just doomed.
Or if you can back cap it as well.
You go outside and suffocate.
I was not a fan of that.
Unless you're a droid, isn't it?
Droids don't suffocate.
I think they do too.
No, you're right.
I don't remember.
I think the humans do.
I don't know, because something doesn't suffocate.
Or the droids just take tick damage.
You wouldn't think droids have lungs.
They all just take tick damage, I think.
Oh, apparently the droids can survive.
I guess I should never play as droids on this map.
My memory.
This is a fun map.
And I really like how it looks.
I put it in A to your personal...
That one's quite...
Because there are avenues to flank on that one.
And there's also...
You can literally grab a vehicle in your home base.
So instead of spawning up front, you can spawn at your back.
And then you can go outside in space on the asteroid and then go back cap the enemy spot.
Also one of the command posts is on top of the table.
Padmate gave birth and then died on, which is funny.
It's a bit weird, isn't it?
It's wet!
Anyway.
Talk to Fjord.
Come on.
This one is so...
It's just too iconic.
It is cool.
This is the last one.
Imagine if you were a droid.
Imagine if every Hollow was Grenade Hollow.
Unfortunately, you had to play as Princess Leia as the Imperial one.
But it's just so much fun that one as well, because you noticeably die more times on that
map than any other.
But then if you...
If you turn a cord, you get jumped.
But if you're playing as Darth Vader on that map, it hits different, doesn't it?
You just slow walk it and then immediately die to grenades.
Is that Crimson Glory?
No, that's not it.
Also, what's this disrespect to Princess Leia?
Princess Leia is awesome.
No, but as a character.
In the game, yeah.
She's not a force user in the game, so it's like, well, I'm at a disadvantage.
Not a force user in No Jet Pack, so...
It's not quite force unleashed to DLC.
I met Carrie Fisher as well.
Nice lady.
Mad dog Barry.
Star killer could body a chaos god.
Uthapa.
I love this one.
I'm not as a big fan of this map.
I like the campaign mission, but as in playing instant action on it, because whoever's up
top had that overarching fight in front of Scorch.
I was going to get rid of DT, because it's not doing anything.
Although you do get...
For a defender, you get your vehicles, at least.
Yeah, and fighting on that slanted part on the offside.
Oh, you have to make your way down it as well.
Or fighting in the hangar is really cool.
I like Uthapa a lot.
I think ATR is fine.
Yeah.
Yavin 4.
That's decent.
That's cool.
I've not had as much fun with this one.
Yeah.
Sometimes you go on the ruins thing, and then it's just a dead end, and there's nothing
at the end, and you just jump off and die.
Every time I play Yavin 4, I get into those big tower turrets, and I think, I'm going
to have fun.
These are going to be useful.
No, they never are.
I don't want to put Yavin 4 in C tier, because of this one simple fact, which is when you're
the rebels, and you get...
I think it's rebels as well, or is it the Imperials?
You get the speeder, the little speeder bike.
But because the map is so poorly designed for the speeder bike, you basically run full
power, and you'll never be hit like a staircase, a tree, or something like that.
So you can't fully use the best part of that map.
It's like Endorf.
It was actually how those bikes would work.
Yeah.
So that's the only reason it actually upsets me.
Also, there's small towers.
You enter it, and it's a light post.
It's like a lamp post, essentially.
And if you play it, inevitably, the last person you're trying to find is stuck in that tower,
and the rest of your team is running around like a headless chicken.
I'm just saying, Felucia is the best map in the game.
I can't.
It's hell, but it's fun hell.
I honestly, I had more fun with Hawk.
Look, if your cortisol levels are low, you don't have enough stress hormones in your
life, just play Felucia.
Yeah.
We have to stream at least once, guys.
We've got to do a 3v1 on Hawth, and the one person is in the AT-AT.
Don't forget there's also the Wampa hunt mode.
Oh my gosh.
That is hell tier.
Bro.
Are you telling me you didn't win as the Wampa?
Yeah, of course I won as the Wampa.
I have like 500 health in one shot, everybody.
It's ridiculous.
The only way to do it is actually use the turrets, isn't it?
You have to use the turrets.
I discovered there was like Xbox exclusive thing recently that they updated it with.
You can get Ki-Adi Mundi and Assajj Ventress.
Oh yeah.
And then they added another hell tier map where you just get lost in time for 20 minutes.
God.
I found this out.
I miss that game so much.
How many times have you guys done the campaign?
I don't.
I must have done it like only a couple years ago.
I had like another go at it because it's not that long, really.
It adds the maps.
Let's see.
Javan 4 Arena, Bespin Cloud City, which was in the first Battlefront one.
I remember it was a lot of fun.
Renvar Harbor and Renvar Citadel.
I'm drawing a blank on what Renvar is.
I think the Citadel one is the one where you just are in ice tunnels for most of it.
Oh God.
Renvar was from...
Oh my God, man.
I didn't want to think about this place.
I think that's what you're talking about.
God.
I do miss that game though.
It's so good, dude.
One of the best games I ever made for sure.
It would be nice to stream.
We have to figure out how to host our own server though.
That's the biggest issue.
Because then we can get...
If people want to join us, they can join us.
Yeah.
I'd love to play it at some point, but I only played the first one.
I love the first one.
Any PC could play this game, by the way.
Yeah.
Cool.
Any PC could play that game though.
If your computer can turn on, you can play Battlefront 2.
Cool.
Good to know.
I would say Death Star is still my favorite.
Just through... it's not the best map, but in terms of experience I've had in there.
I'm on the opposite spectrum of Eli.
I love the maps that are just unfortunate.
I'm having a miserable...
Just stand at the end of that corridor and just throw lights at it continuously.
It does make sense.
Colin loves Murat Afi and he loves a bit of cock and ball torture.
It is what it is.
That's probably my favorite map actually.
I really like Curzon.
Dude, I...
I've really struggled with it.
I love the death hall ways.
When you're playing the Anakin on that one, I really struggled with...
What's the clone trooper who has the purple...
The band guy?
Oh, he's got the hood...
Yeah.
He has the auto-cannon as well.
Those ones are so annoying because if you're jumping as a Jedi, they track you.
So I just...
I hate those.
Skill issue.
It was at the time.
It was.
It has a death hallway, it has a small room, and it has a big opening place with cover.
So it's kind of nice.
We should cover it.
He loves his cover.
Gears of War.
Hopefully Gears of War.
We're dying in a field like a real one.
I think that, unless anyone else wants to add anything, that might...
We managed to cover some...
A lot, Tfair, on this too.
Yeah, yeah.
I believe my final statement is I wish EA didn't kill the new battlefront.
2 after they finally made it good.
They finally made it good and then they shot it.
Would it really be so difficult for them to remaster battlefront 1 and 2 with nice graphics
and not touch the gameplay?
Probably not.
People would buy drones.
All they had to do was make the same game too.
And then we would...
Yeah, literally just copy paste the code and just touch up the models and make them look
nice.
It's like, yeah, people would buy it a million times.
But they want microtransactions.
Finally, yeah, folks love both battlefront 2s and then they just refuse to do that the
first time where they're just like, here's the same thing but it looks nicer.
And then they killed the second one after they made it good.
Yeah.
Shout out to the mod community though.
Yeah.
That made me so fucking angry.
They had Republic Commandos to be...
Could you imagine a 40k style battlefront game or battlefield?
Rip Eternal for Sade.
And you could have heroes like Gilliman and Vulcan.
Talk to people about it before and it would be very fun, but you could not have every
faction or if you did, it'd have to be in a little bit capacity.
I think the best way would be like Tau versus Guard.
That'd be a lot of fun.
Or even have a 40k Horus Heresy inspired one.
You could have Traitor Primarchs, you could have Loyalist Primarchs, you could have Mechanicus
faction stuff.
You could just have the human stuff and then it wouldn't be too much, I feel like.
Even with that though, the dude playing as a guardsman versus the dude playing as a space
marine.
Well, that's the thing, I assume it'd be like Titanfall had pilots and then it had NPC soldiers.
I feel like the guardsman would just be AI and you'd play as space marines and then that
would probably...
That'd be cool.
Space Marine 2 would be so nice.
Something else, part of battlefield though is you're a grunt just in this giant, massive
battle.
True.
Or yeah, it's literally instead of Primarchs jumping in, it's just like, oh my god, Kato
Zekaria, I've heard of him.
Oh, I want to get his autograph.
Crunk.
And then you battle the second battlefront 2 or the first one and eventually you can
be a space marine or a special character.
Imagine a Fall of Cadia map.
That'd be fun.
Before we finish, I just want to get it in.
One of the tier list we need to do is Republic Commandos level tier list.
Oh, the rest tier.
I've got to refresh my mind on it.
Because if anyone has played Republic Commandos...
I got on release.
I played it when it came out.
That's how old I feel.
Yeah, I remember.
That game is core memory.
Core memory right there.
With that being said though, that was the tragedies of the Warhammer 40k universe, but
I think maybe we might do a fantasy one here just because there's a lot.
We've got some grief in...
We've got some therapy to get through.
So we'll go over that.
DJ Beast, yes.
ERB, is it ERB?
I'm on lore crimes and I can't even get the tier list.
You guys think you're going to get the tier list you want?
Oh dear.
With that being said though, that might be it for today's episode.
Thank you guys so much for watching and listening and we'll catch you guys next week.
Hopefully.
We'll let you know we're cooking up.
We've got something good.
Math.
Alright, see you.
Bye everyone.