I should pull up YouTube and then remember to mute YouTube so I don't go insane.
Yeah, I've had that where like it double played last last week for me.
And I definitely.
And one of those one of those people.
We should be lying to yourself.
Yes.
Hello everyone.
We're just talking about how we are such professionals and we possibly have left a live stream going
while they start to record.
So we hear our own voices come back to haunt us, which no one wants unless you're in an
insane asylum.
People just let us know if we're live though.
Hopefully we can get confirmation, can hear us.
We sound good.
We sound coherent, hopefully.
I think we're live to be fair.
Yes we are.
Yes.
Colin, we're talking about something a primark doesn't want us to talk about.
It's a bit of a shameful little naughty secret.
What's the topic of discussion today?
The topic of discussion today is the fallen.
Those little those silly little dark angels fellas that are goofballs.
They did a little bit of a goof 10,000 years ago, except for them.
It could be anywhere from 10,000 years ago to five minutes ago because timey wimey warp
stuff.
Man, we've been talking about timey wimey garbage for a while now.
We were just talking about Dark Souls 3 and I was complaining about it because it's not
Dark Souls 2.
Speaking of timey.
Okay, no, no.
Dark Souls 2 is not the best Dark Souls.
People who are in the chat do not validate that opinion.
Still a good game.
You can choose to be on the right side of history or the wrong side of history.
But anyway, that's not the fault.
No, Dark Souls 2 is bad for the combat.
I'll say that.
That's that's my opinion.
We can we can we can agree to disagree.
It's the hitboxes that do it for me.
I'm like no thanks.
That bloody pursuer going I'm going to spear you even though it's a meter away.
Like nah, I'm not having that.
Cheeky boy.
He's not a hard fight.
He's very.
He's the ballista.
Okay.
Before the argument start, we're here to learn about some sneaky, shameful, naughty secret
in the lion's closet.
That sounds a bit weird.
Colin, it's Fallen.
And who are the Fallen?
The Fallen were those dark angels who during the Horus heresy, they were stationed on Caliban,
the dark angels homeworld.
And they're a yeah, that's right, we're leader Luther, who I always think of as Lex Luthor,
but that's unrelated.
He he got a bit of a spiff, a bit of an argument with the lion over almost letting him get
nuked and as a punishment, but also not a punishment because there's some different
ways you can look at it as a sign of trust and redemption kind of depending on how you
want to read in it what the lion's thought process was.
He was stationed on Caliban to train new dark angels recruits.
And he got a little bit bitter over that.
And that bitterness over that kind of doubled down on the mounting bitterness he felt towards
the lion for basically outshining him.
Yeah, because you know, Luthor by all rights should have been like the fantasy hero.
He's like he's he's the guy.
And then the lion showed up and it's like, well, he's this is a demigod.
Nothing you do is going to look good compared to him.
I think Luther would have been like the sigma of Caliban essentially.
And then he just got, you know, clapped into being a lesser role.
Poor guy.
Yeah.
So he's been bitter.
And so during this to to cut the long story a bit short, the Luthor seceded from the Imperium
made a made Caliban very, very briefly independent, very made Caliban great again was his mantra.
Pretty much.
This was a very brief thing because in the Horus heresy ended and then the lion went
home to find out that his planet was no longer part of the empire he's a part of a little
bit of a mini Horus heresy happens with Luthor being given a Luther, not Luthor.
That's no pardon me.
The bit where the lion burns down the White House to me was quite crazy.
And all of the land it was on and the planet's like, yeah, yeah.
What was that?
There were two ladies with the White House got attacked.
White House down.
It was Independence Day.
Olympus has fallen.
Yes.
And they came out the same year.
Technically it gets blown up.
So yeah, it counts.
But yeah, with the Luthor being given a bit of a power boost by the chaos gods and those
loyal to him fighting those dark angels loyal to the lion and him and the lion fight.
And it ends with Caliban exploding through reasons that future 40k books have made a
wonderful mess of that I'm not going to be getting into right now.
I will leave that to you gentlemen.
More timey wimey stuff.
As Caliban explodes the Watcher's Steel lying away and the fallen more relevant to what
we're talking about today are cast into the warp.
And for a while everyone goes well, mission accomplished I guess.
No more homeworld but all the chaos worshippers and or just general traders are dealt with.
And then they start showing up.
One shows up and they're like, oh, that's not good.
And then more show up and then more and more fallen show up.
And then the dark angels realize that the fact that they had quite the amount of traders
technically within their ranks is something they really don't want getting out to the
wider Imperium.
It's a little bit embarrassing.
It's embarrassing.
And then the fact that they lied about them not having any traders is compounded on itself
for 10,000 years.
And then you reach what was modern 40K where the dark angels have been brutally massacring
fellow Imperial forces if a fallen happens to be present or they think there is one present
or just the idea.
Well, it's more of I think the more likely thing is if they if they're at a war zone
and they hear, oh, one planet away is a fallen, they'll just abandon the position of it.
Right.
It's less that they're purging everyone only if they're involved.
But more or less, it's like, oh, is that a fallen?
Oh, look at the time.
Sorry, guys, we've got somewhere to be in the like, the Tyranids are eating my legs.
It's like, no, sorry, we've got more important things to do.
You could say like the modern dark angels are Dark Souls three fans and the fallen were
Dark Souls two fans and they just there's so many Dark Souls three fans.
They have to crush the Dark Souls two.
I don't I don't know the ultramarines.
But yeah, I guess that's fair.
Not most of the time it is an outright murdering allies.
But, you know, they do do that every now and then if one of them sees a fallen that that
does happen.
But usually it's like you said, and it's like, oh, we hear there's a fall in a sector away.
Have fun, everyone.
We're suddenly very busy and can't be bothered to help you in this war zone.
And then some some stuff happens with the lion.
But the lion comes back.
That's the stuff that happens.
Yeah, just a small detail.
Just a small little of little detail.
And the fallen are perhaps not fallen anymore.
That is the brief summation of the fallen.
One final thing I, of course, would like to add is that the fallen's outfits, as with
all Dark Angels outfits are, God, they are the best looking space marines.
That's just period.
I'm just going to say it does go hard.
It's really not even that like complicated a design choice.
It's just here's a space marine, give them a robe.
God, does it look so cool?
Like it is unreasonable.
It's very annoying because if you play any other faction, they're like, I always wish
particularly some of the art they have for the Dark Angels, like it's just kind of a
bit more iconic and it's very annoying that those like they kind of anyone else can't
wear a hood now.
I mean, for some reason, that's kind of a good thing in other places.
Although they do have a problem with like, at least from the lore perspective, I had
a look through some of the characters earlier and there's so many with cool names and it's
just because there's a model for cool names.
Is there any law?
No, it's just he's got a cool name.
I'll see if I can find an example, but they are really cool looking.
And yeah, that's the there's the brief little intro to the fallen Dark Angels.
Then they were traded Dark Angels and now who knows?
I suppose the answer depends on if the if the lion or Azrael get to them first.
No, as Madai.
As Madai is the scary MF.
Psychotic failure of a chaplain.
Oh, controversial.
It's not controversial.
He's got like one beat compared to like there's another dude.
Without any context, that sounds really bad.
It sounds a little bit suspicious, but I promise you it's not.
These beads are rewards, not for self anything.
He's got one and some dude who I can't remember the name of is like eight.
And I think that's just like a brief intro, but we do we are not forgetting about the
question of the week because we've again we love you guys sending in your answers.
We've got another question at the end, but I think Colin is going to.
And he's always in charge of the polls during the live stream.
So you guys are watching this later.
And he's always the one who's torturing Colin with like completely biased questions and
answers.
Oh, no, I found some of those characters I mentioned.
So there's one called Night of Ancient Vengeance, one called Scouring Light and Scourge of
Worlds.
And he's got a model called Scourge of Worlds and just says he's a fallen angel's commander
and he wields a power sword.
Cool.
I mean, that name is pretty.
The rest is up to your imagination.
Get homebrew and get make it get playing some tabletop games and make his story.
But for now, question of the week.
It was a hashtag love Warhammer.
What do you love about Warhammer?
The first one from Scowleazy, hashtag love Warhammer, the unending amount of multi hour
long videos I can listen to while sleeping on the couch over the pandemic.
Baltimore got me through the plague.
Nice.
I wonder if like we did poll like what's the percentage of people who do sleep listening
to our voices and in a weird way, have they heard my voice more than they've heard like
people in their lives because of how much they had to listen to it.
This is when how's ego just for everyone listens to me all the time.
My unbearably long apologies.
But I do wonder that how many percentage of people if you guys are listening or in the
chat, I was like, if you actually use us, legitimate, is it just sleep or are you awake
when you hear us talk?
We'd appreciate that.
There's a there's a special fear when you're listening to a Warhammer lore video pad because
I listen to YouTube just stuff when I'm falling asleep and there's a special kind of tension
you feel when you're listening to a nice relaxing lore video and then you hear hey hey people
Seth.
It is wakes me the fuck up.
It's just the meme with like the giant horse cock weighs three pounds.
You know, you tell me you guys must have heard that.
I can't say I know what you're talking about.
The meme is like you basically you let YouTube autoplay and eventually it takes you to like
some really obscure like dark place and then it just ends up being like the giant horse
cock.
And by the way, it's not like I think it's like a mushroom.
It's not even like a like what we're thinking.
How what are you talking about?
I'm not being psychotic.
People are going to put in the chat.
They've heard this meme before and it's good.
And I'm like, I've heard the meme.
The recommendation takes you to weird places.
I can't say I've heard that version.
That feels like it's not something you naturally just happen.
It's in my recommended every day and the struggle to not click on it.
I think that's a bit of a darker than helping out to be honest.
I don't know if this is the algorithm.
I think this is the search function.
Yeah, YouTube knows us too well.
Fueled by his search.
Yeah.
But I can't believe I put that on the Internet.
There for all time.
Next one is from Mark.
Markad Polor.
Sounds like Marco Polo but with some actual letters.
Hashtag love warhammer.
This is this is just a nice one.
The space for expression and creativity.
Cool models, wild lore, wild color schemes and interpreting everything as you want.
Getting in fun discussions about your imagination, which is fun.
It's fun to argue, you know, nerd argument over one bit of the lore.
Who's best?
Who's worse?
That kind of stuff.
See people's cool models and stuff.
It's fun.
My plastic toy soldier is better than your plastic toy soldier.
Correct.
Essentially.
But then we've all managed to somehow like, particularly us here, we managed to get employment
from that.
So yeah.
Although I will say it's a slight tangent, but in that vein, I some I watch I read all
the comments on law crimes and the amount of times I read comments in mine and Colin's
Halo versus Warhammer video and all the comments are like, Andy's stupid.
No, I can't use game at like game examples as like valid points of like, I was doing
my best.
Sometimes people can be ruthless.
I did have I think someone gave a take on a recent video on a recent video, but like
a video of mine a while back.
And it's quite valid.
Someone putting underneath my Jack of Tycon video and says, wow, you really did like an
accented fake voice for that.
Because my voice actor did, and I just wish I could show him the official GW audio book
for White Scar stuff because it's bad.
You think it's more a case of just Colin just destroys me and every time we do a versus
match.
It's I need to get out the anger I feel from having to deal with the US healthcare system
and versus is just simply how it comes out.
We should definitely do another one of those soon.
Oh, absolutely.
We'll do a live argument brothers.
I was gonna say, yeah, I feel like the second one is absolutely aimed at me.
I think if I take these ones then go go for it.
Louie McShootie.
Thanks for the 499.
I mostly listen to Mr. No work because he talks about how much he loves a certain Dami
Mami hell.
Oh, that's a recent one.
I've seen I haven't watched it yet.
Just because I'm like, oh no, this might awaken something in me.
I left a comment on that video of yours Colin on Morathi that I'm not proud of.
I don't know if you saw it.
I need to I need to go through the comments.
I like to say what it is a day.
No, I if you want to say what it is, but I would like to I'm gonna look for it.
I want to see the I'll say it for the people for law for the law criminals here.
It was I was there the day Morathi gave the Glock 3000 to the Emperor.
I'm not proud of that.
That's a Andy if you'd like to if you'd like the TLDR of it, just skip to the end joke
and that'll explain all you need to know about the video.
Hmm.
Last 20 seconds is really all you need.
Thank you.
Louie McShootie.
Thank you, Lacey and Eldridge.
The old great one is.
Oh no, Colin of Warhammer head of YouTube.
Which one would you think fit best?
I think.
Are you asking me specifically or Warhammer in general, because there's a couple Warhammer
VTubers.
Come on.
What fits Warhammer?
Just be honest from the heart.
And Maury the Ganger there.
Warhammer VTubers.
I was on the podcast outside of the fucking fucking.
Lumi No, it's Lumi.
You goddamn fool.
She plays.
She likes fantasy.
Man, I'd love looking.
Yeah, I know.
This is why I took this.
This is why I took this one.
Oh God, I don't know how you.
The man's knowledge is infinite when it comes to VTuber.
And you know what?
I'm OK with that.
Is this like Horace Heresy, I sleep, VTubers, I'm awake.
Yeah.
You're not.
But we have another.
We have another donation by the way.
Neon LF Grave saying off topic, but I love that as an AOS Beastman player, I don't have
to buy any new models in the old world.
Hell yeah.
That's sad.
But I thought that.
Yeah.
Well, it's probably what most Beastman players in AOS did.
They just rebased their squares to circles.
I don't know if you'll get this one, Colin, but Gora and Tiberius, I guess in the Red
Wake VTuber collab.
Yeah, I use the Gora artwork in my car caradons from now and like a bunch of them are just
like, I know what that is, but because it's the helmet version, it's not obvious unless
you know.
And I was like, I'm going to do an experiment and see if I was like, oh yes, they noticed.
They noticed.
Of course they noticed.
It's we're degenerates.
Oh, we've got another donation.
I think Colin, do you want to take that one?
Because I think it's for you brother.
Oh no.
Thank you.
Contact Kinetic67, the E for the five C A dollars.
Thank you brother.
Colin's cap of injection port floods his brain with Battlestips for every podcast.
There's a way to do that.
Isn't it called slot?
Isn't that a thing?
Like in Warhammer, there's like, there's a drug called slots, like a combat stick.
I swear I'm not making this up.
Maybe.
Although I don't know.
There is one in the halo like that, that I might be thinking of instead of Warhammer.
It does sound a bit filthy though.
Tom Warren has also donated a fiver, five dollars.
Thank you very much.
Thank you Tom.
Saying Warhammer Vtubers are a thing.
This is why God has forsaken us.
Exactly.
I only found out what a Vtuber was because of Colin and my life has been, it's been darker
days ever since.
The fact that that moment's crystallized on the internet as well, because he found out
during a recording.
I'm not proud of it, but I'm not ashamed because I make money to be a degenerate.
Quite frankly, that's as far as I care to put any thought in the matter.
We live very different lives.
One day we'll get that Bad Dragon sponsorship and we'll crank it up to the 11th level and
we'll keep going.
And basically the rule is that Colin's a slut for Vtuber and we love it.
We support you.
No shame.
You don't need to lie.
How do we know what's in your recommended video feed?
You can't talk.
Yes.
John Horscock weighs three pounds.
Anyway, Fallen.
I think we should get back to the Fallen one.
We'll finish off with the next question of the week.
Although there is one quick thing from Chad I want to bring up.
There is another 40k man tonight.
He's dead.
He can't say that.
No, he's not.
Eli is a busy man.
Eli's a busy, he's getting educated and spending time with people he couldn't make it's not,
unfortunately.
His wife.
He's married.
Eli's got this rare thing called responsibilities, which we have no idea what that is and he
has to take care of them.
That's all it is.
I'm not really responsible for my recommended on YouTube.
But we do have another question of the week though for you guys.
This one is just tell us a secret about Warhammer.
Oh, sorry.
Go ahead.
Sorry.
One more.
Go ahead.
This one from Jeremy Golden 700.
Hashtag love Warhammer.
This one I chose because I've never heard, I've never seen these words in my life and
I'm just befuddled mostly.
I was drumming more during COVID and all my blisters and calluses healed.
I built the Space Marine half of the Dark Imperium box.
The next half of this is what blows my mind.
Currently he has 4,000 points of Raven Guard, which I, good on you, Matt.
I'm not judging.
I just never thought I would read that in my life.
2,500 points of Necrons.
Solid.
And 1,000 points of Mimera Eldar.
Hell yeah.
And 800 points of Dark Eldar.
Of this stuff, I'm addicted.
Hell.
If that's 4,000 points of Horus Heresy Raven Guard, that's okay.
Because that's like two tanks.
But if that is 40k.
If you said Dark Imperium box, I don't think it's Horus Heresy.
My lord, that's a lot of Raven Guard for only having one character.
Damn.
Caw caw.
Thank you, brother.
Oh, there's another dono.
Do you want to get that one, Colin?
Oh, oh boy.
I see why you got to do this.
Yes.
Eldritch is a great old one.
Thank you for the five bucks again.
I'm pretty sure Pippa Red Warhammer Lorath Moranthi via the shot he would send through
his body would make his pancreas work again.
I'd fucking do that.
That would send me into anaphylactic shock.
Does this dude know you?
I'm not, I don't have many secrets.
He's very honest.
As of what I enjoy, I'm pretty open about it.
Well, uh,
No transparent.
Speaking of secrets though, finally, the next question of the week is tell us a secret about
Warhammer 40k.
And obviously it doesn't have to be a legit secret.
It can just be something completely stupid.
We don't mind.
Let's be hashtag secrets.
Yeah, again, could be a secret that, you know, Cypher's true identity is actually just, um,
Oh, who's the great, I mean, I'm trying to think of the guy's name now, but I've drawn
a massive blank though.
He's Gary Busey.
That's who Cypher really is.
Colin's thinking like, Oh, why have you brought that name up?
I wasn't ready for that.
I think it's because I heard like on a podcast before about how Gary Busey is so annoying
in person.
Like when he's on, when he's on the phones with people, he would like, he'll be in first
class and kind of just like, Hey, how was your day?
And just starts talking to people.
I think that was a Rooster Teeth animated adventure.
I think it was.
Yeah.
It might have been Rooster Teeth.
It was a while back.
If you remember Rooster Teeth, because I didn't know that.
Before the downfall.
Before, you know, if you were, that'll be a true generational divider.
Do you remember Rooster Teeth?
You're like, Oh no, that'll be, that'll scare me.
We're not that old yet.
We're getting there, but we're not that old.
The dividers, when you ask them, do you remember Rooster Teeth?
Do you have fond memories or do you remember what they've done the last like three years?
Oof.
But speaking of some other secrets, we are today talking about The Fallen, the kind of
the big shame of the Dark Angels.
And it starts all the way back in 30k.
So we begin with, I mean, is he daddy's favorite?
Maybe it's the lion, Lionel Johnson.
As Colin said earlier, it's kind of not his story this one.
So I will be a bit briefer on his elements, but the lion is obviously on the world of
Caliban and Caliban is basically feudal Arthurian legend essentially at this point.
And he's adopted by his father called Luther.
Luther's a great knight and probably would have been Caliban's Sigmar if it wasn't for
the lion.
Poor guy.
And there's also another guy called Zahariel, who's a young member of sort of Calibanite
society and they are all part of the quote unquote order, which is basically Knights
of the Round Table.
They go out and they hunt the beasts of Caliban who are slightly Celtically tainted.
They're a bit funky.
You know what I mean?
It's like you go to the zoo and the animal has just not been fed enough.
Yeah.
And Caliban is a death world, but it's not like a lot of a death world.
It's like there's just lots of bad pieces.
Oh, we have another donated by Bunny Cop.
He says 40k drugs, slot, friends, combat stims and blood of the innocent.
Slot is one.
I don't think that last one is a drug.
I think that's just, I think that's just blood.
But I knew slot was something.
I knew I wasn't making that up.
Just blood frenzy.
But basically the orders like a Knight group that go hunt the beast of Caliban.
And eventually it's sort of correlates where like the lion is a great figure.
He's a Primarch.
And with Luther, they kind of unite all the other different order or like different similar
Knightly orders of Caliban into one.
And they eventually managed to kill like the last beast of Caliban.
And then they have to eventually quash the another Knightly group called the Knights
of Lupus who have been secretly gathering like beasts because they feel like, ah, what
are we without the beasts?
We're basically nothing.
And so they, you know, I mean, they're basically-
Let's use them to fight.
Yeah, they want to keep their way of life.
I guess.
And an interesting point in the lore here is that the lion, they kill all the Knights
of Lupus and they destroy their hold.
But the lion doesn't destroy their secret library, which was filled with lore created
by that their grandmaster who's a bit of an insane freak.
You know, probably the VTuber Bible is in there and the lion kept it for himself.
And there's also something-
But he was a git because he was a scalper and he bought all the end and the death free
novels and that's why he had to die because his library was full of them and he wouldn't
give them to anyone else.
It's filled with the end of the death and old world boxes that he's not giving to anyone
else.
You can never get a special edition book ever because it's just scalped immediately, absolute
pain.
But there's also a bit of a spicy new news on that front because the Order gets a new
Cypher or a new man to inherit the role of Cypher.
Just a brief rundown because Cypher might get his own episode one day.
Cypher is essentially just a role that's inhabited by a man who in the Order abandoned his old
identity and just basically becomes the keeper of the knowledge and remember of the ways
and all the secrets of the Order.
He's essentially sort of like Facebook messenger in a way, like WhatsApp groups currently in
the news because they keen to be- if anyone here is watching the news, they're calling
out politicians.
Is Cypher Tom from Facebook?
Is that what you're saying?
No, he's basically- he's your own words to haunt you when you said something bad in 2007
that cannot be forgotten.
But there's a new Cypher in the Order and everyone's a bit weird, like, oh that's a
bit strange.
And eventually these Calibanite warrior, monk soldiers, they've sort of won the entire planet's
theirs all under control of the lion.
And that's when the Dark Angels arrive from the heavens and the Emperor of Mankind and
they start to recruit and Caliban was inducted into the Imperium and they start to be turned
into Astartes and they're all jacked up and they're all getting swole and recruits like
Sahariel who were quite young, they can be turned into Space Marines.
Whereas poor old Luther, his knees and his weak arms are heavy.
He was sweating on his mum's spaghetti.
He was a bit too old.
Speaking of mum's spaghetti, by the way, we've got two donations.
We've got Lutti McShootie again saying, hashtag slaughter me fallen father.
And we've got Tom Warren for five dollars saying, if blood of the innocent isn't a drug,
then why do the Grey Knights kill for it?
Good questions.
Oh, that's a good reference to the Sisters of Battle.
No longer law part, essentially.
Thank God that got read.
Thank you, Matt Ward.
God, that was bad.
But essentially, Caliban is now part of the Imperium.
It's starting to be industrialized, like literally parts of the forest that were sacred are just
basically being mowed down and a lot of the Calibanites going, this is cool.
We have like lights now, but I can't go on a forest walk.
So it's a bit rubbish, you know, gentrifying it.
Literally gentrifying it, I think, is the term for it.
And Luther joins with the lion and Zahariel and a new generation of Calibanite recruits
into the Dark Angels, the First Legion.
And they go, hell yeah, brothers, we're going to go fight in the stars and kick some Xenos
filth.
But then their first battle doesn't go very well.
It starts with they go on a planet called the Soroshi.
And everyone's a bit of a keen bean.
And even the lion's been handed over by the white scars.
They've been like, yo, lion, you've got this.
And he just, you know, like, this is bullshit.
We've had enough.
Like, you know, dab me up, fam, I'll take over.
Turns out the Soroshi were kind of enslaved by Xenos.
And they basically were like, we're religious the entire time.
We've been faking being nice and secular.
And the lion was like, that's weird.
And they were doing lines of chaos.
It's like, do you want to try this?
I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, this is bad.
And then they have they arrived on a ship and the delegation, particularly Luther, it
looks at the ship and he goes, this thing is like not safe because it looks like it's
only made for one journey.
And he looks a bit close and goes, oh, my God, there's a nuclear bomb in the ship.
But good old Luther here.
What's the deal?
We're nuclear bombs.
You're probably your first instinct would have been just to go, that's bad.
Let's get that out of here.
Luther hesitated because poor old Luther, he's not even quite turned into an Astartes.
Luther is transformed to like a half Astartes.
He's not he's a bit of a short king amongst his other Calibanites here.
I mean, here the Corfarron are like the only two I know of who were like, you're too old,
you'll die so we can like give you some organs and like a bit of surgery.
They got like the Botox of Astartes.
Oh, that's a shame.
They very much get like a they're like the five foot nine of the six foot.
They're the short kings of the Astartes.
They kind of like, we're not talking about Alpharius for once.
They have like proto surgery.
So Luther's quite he was a bit too old and he was never a excuse me, like a full Astartes.
But we said earlier, Luther was an incredible man and he probably would have been like the
unifier of Caliban and like the Sigmar.
But he's so overshadowed by the lion and it does breed like a resentment and jealousy.
And so Luther kind of hesitates for a bit and he goes, if I just walk away from this
bomb, it might just take out the lion then like, oh my God, I have to lead the Dark Angel.
That's crazy, right, Rothers?
I mean, that'd be wild.
But then he does.
He does come to his senses and even poor old Zahariel finds the bomb as well.
And they both Luther comes back and he goes like, let's just get it out of here.
They do it a little bit late and so they take a little bit of damage.
A few Dark Angels do die and the lion is like, how was that even possible?
They race down to the planet of Sauroshri and they find this like massive kind of like
a hive mind, Xenos.
Again another example of sorry Colin, Xenos that was cool and then they never talked about
it again because GW doesn't like Xenos.
I accept it.
It is what it is.
The lion uses Zahariel who's a librarian to help like kill this thing.
And then immediately after the battle is won, the lion is looking at Luther and Zahariel
and he's going like, I don't trust you guys anymore.
And there's a big divide here where Luther, Zahariel and many of the Calibanites get sent
back to Caliban to basically be in charge of recruitment.
I think I might have a good parallel for people who aren't entirely sure.
Like you know in Halo 2, there's the bit where the Master Chief like shoves the bomb out
of space and he drops it onto a Covenant ship.
So it's like imagine if Master Chief was like, oh but Sergeant Johnson's on this ship and
he's way cooler than me.
So I kind of want him to die.
And when he drops to New Mombasa, he also steals his sniper rifle and he goes, I thought
we were friends.
Like that's the caliber of betrayal we're talking about.
There you go.
It was, yeah so the artist formerly known as-
I know Colin, mate.
The artist formerly known as Luther is basically banished from the lion's side.
The lion doesn't take it very well because he's like, he basically says like, I just
can't risk that ever happening again even though you did the right thing in the end.
And even some of the Terrans are sort of shoved away.
Basically the ones who are not in the lion's favour.
And yeah, Zahariel, there's also another figure called Astelan who was a Terran born Astartes
of the Dark Angels and he's one of the earliest Astartes ever made and he remembers fighting
beside the Emperor during the Invocation Wars.
And so now on Caliban, Luther's returned to it, Zahariel, Astelan is there.
And there's basic, like Caliban's been gutted, it's kind of-
The Mechanic has got their dirty mitts into the soil and cut all the trees out of it.
Yeah, nothing's quite the same.
The forest's almost gone.
It's not doing great.
That's great, you can go to hell.
Yeah, it's been ruined essentially.
Did you know how many Dark Angels Astartes were exiled originally?
I don't actually remember the number.
Let's see, 5,000?
So not that many to be fair.
Way off.
I don't know why I had 5,000 in my head.
But to be fair, they're then in charge of recruitment.
So they go, right, we're going to make the recruits, but we're also going to be like,
ah, the lion's a bit of shit.
You're like, oh, that's sneaky.
Yeah, well, that's what I was just about to say.
So they returned to Caliban and essentially recruitment just goes into overdrive because
it's kind of all that Luther can really do.
And a lot of the various members of the Dark Angels who kind of fall out of favour with
the lion over the great crusade, they get shoved off back to Caliban to basically be
instructors.
And as the decades begin to pass, like basically in secret here, and to their much of Caliban
shame, a rebellion forms in Caliban itself from the human workers.
And they find out it's actually orchestrated by a lot of the older members of the previous
order that were once companions of the lion, but men who were too old or too injured to
be turned into Astartes or even like Luther.
And there's a big cold war that starts between these two factions, whereas the actual quote
unquote Dark Angels are quite, the ones who are there are quite resentful of being there,
but then also like we're not betraying the Imperium just yet.
And then they find out this isn't just a normal rebellion.
Turns out one of their elements actually has a little bit of chaos taint, a little bit
of spice thrown on that.
And it turns out they've just restarted the production of Calibanite beasts again.
And they're like, oh shit, that's not what we want to happen because they know what happens
to planets that have this sort of taint.
They've heard rumors and they know things.
So basically they go, if the Imperium finds out about this, they're going to like blow
us from orbit.
I feel like it's worth mentioning as well, like Caliban uniquely has like a weird primordial
chaos thing going on.
It's like very, it's very bones.
It's like you've got the Watches in the Dark, you've got the beasts.
The beasts aren't just like big monsters, they're like chaos infused, like manipulated
and mutated.
So like I know there's theories about like because the lion is the first Primarch, chaos
made like a weave of like, we're going to put him in like this really dangerous world,
fall to the hilt with chaos to try and turn him.
But it's just like no, his angry boy energy is so high, he's just going to kill all the
beasts.
Oh, that didn't go very well, but it's kind of like even though they decimate the beasts,
there's a few that survive and then because they're not being culled as much, they start
to resurge and then they find these little nooks in the planet that have little weird
wells of chaos energy and all these tones from the Knights of Lupus.
It's all like under the surface just boiling, just simmering like a pot of stew.
It's like, hmm, smell that?
It's a little bit of chaos.
Do you want to try a bit?
Smells like ass in chaos.
Try a bit of chaos.
It's good.
It's yummy.
It's good for you.
Does anyone want to explain, perhaps Colin, what the watch is in the dark of just like
very briefly, just so there's some context there.
I would say, yeah, they look like little Jawas because they've got, you know, you don't see
their bodies ever.
They're just wearing these like cloaks with the hoods over them.
They're weird.
They're not from the warp.
They're like these extra dimensional beings that aren't from the warp.
And in fact, if I remember correctly, like I think the changeling, the zin shiman came
across one and he was horrified of a little guy.
So there are these weird extra dimensional beings aligned against chaos that seem to
have a particular attachment to the dark angels and the lion in particular.
So they are apparently disgusting to chaos, which I just love.
I still love that part.
The poor, I know changing is like the closest thing he ever feels to fear when he's near
her.
I think it's like a literal moment where like it like snaps his head around and looks at
him.
He goes like, oh, fuck, you know, he like pisses himself.
Yeah.
And it's like, I just love the, I'm sorry.
Oh, I was just saying like, which is neat because it's the only other time they really seem
to demons do that in 40 K is when some with the emperor is involved.
I just love the dread and on videos where it's him as the lines, it's like the ultra
Marines or so, not the offerings, but like the, the administrator, I would say to do
the tax collection and just like, ah, my little ones.
Oh, we're going to just pretend we're not spending all this money and get an extra hour
in the ball pit.
Yeah.
I love those videos.
We love dread, but essentially there's like a, there's a little bit of a spicy chaos curry
in the mix here on Caliban and as they're trying to deal with it very much Luther and
Zahariel and Aslan surprise, a lot of the caliber night native people, a lot of Terrans
have been imported and given like new residents there.
A lot of the native carbonites are kind of mistreated in a way they're not looked after
and they're basically oppressed.
And then at the same time,
I'm in the Imperium mistreats the people in the Imperium that no say it ain't so.
Sounds like propaganda to me.
I don't know.
It's kind of their thing.
And then also at the same time, um, I think, uh, Luther himself, Luther stumbles upon something
a little bit spicy, which is he discovers the, Oh, I think I'm having an error slightly
with it on its backs.
It's all good, uh, slight error there with the, uh, uh, Riverside there boys.
Give me a second.
Spicy.
I mean, well, basically Luther essentially, um, in couple Luther finds like the library
that the lion didn't want, you know, this is like the law.
He didn't want him to know about and Luther finds the old books of the Knights of lupus
and he starts to read it and he sort of comes to realisation about this thing called chaos.
He's like, ah, chaos is a real thing.
That's scary.
And we kind of have to deal with that.
Then also the lion must've known about this cause he's been keeping this library hidden.
That's bad.
And they sort of, he's not quite corrupted, but Luther's learned something bad and they
eventually do deal with these, this like chaos rebellion and might measure do it before,
like even some of the Terran elements of the, uh, legion are like, you know, maybe we should
say something and this is like, no, that's bad.
Please don't.
Um, and then eventually they do measure squash this thing.
And at the same time, Zahariel who's a librarian finds out that some of his own memories have
been altered by some of the Terran elements that are still on Caliban of the Legion.
He feels like betrayed by his friend and it sort of least was scuffle and is basically
where the rebellion like it's in the open now.
Like it kind of starts and they go like, well, we've betrayed the Imperium now cause we just
attacked our own legionaries and it's going to go bad.
Yeah.
And there's like elements of like the, the Lord Cypher at the time isn't really kosher
with what the Luther is doing.
Uh, there's like a bit where the death guard, when the Horus heresy is breaking out, they're
like the, the, the dark angel stationed on Caliban are like, we don't really know what's
going on.
So we're just going to stay put until we hear otherwise.
And there's a bit like Typhus and the death guard are like, Hey guys, we, I like Typhus
goes to Lutherans.
Like we had like a good relationship in the past, even though he's like smells really
bad now.
It's like, yeah, so I remember you Typhus.
You are like fairly honorable.
Okay.
And he hides you away from like our dark angels, brothers, led by, I think it's course Wayne
who's hunting them down.
It's like death guard.
We haven't seen any death guard.
No death guard here.
Definitely not.
That smell, I promise you, cat died.
It's not.
And I think there's like a scouting party that gets intercepted by the space wolves
at one point in wolf Spain, maybe possibly the Rune.
I think the Rune priest captures one of them and he's like, Oh, I'm loyal to Luther.
I was like, Oh, the little dark angel.
He's not, he's not talking about the lion.
That's weird.
Who is Luther?
I don't know who Luther is.
Look at my teeth.
I'm a space wolf.
Yeah.
And they're just talking aggressively and they're, they're, they're champion virtue
is Caliban first.
We're going to put ourselves in front of the Imperium.
Our independence is more important.
If the Imperium can't sort out its own civil wars, nothing to do with us.
It's kind of their, their modus operandi.
So I think one of the slogans does come close to make Caliban great again, but I don't know
if I can confirm or not, but essentially it like the, there's like a triarchy of Astellan
Luther and Zahariel, even though Luther's not an Astartes, they all kind of respect
him and Luther's quite well.
Like he's a great orator where the lion was just not.
And like, as, as Andrew just said, they've kind of now made it an Oakland declaration.
They're no longer picking any one side other than Caliban and the recruitment at this time,
they start to change it a little bit.
So they've been recruiting Astartes for decades at this point, but they start to change the
indoctrination slightly different.
Like, you know, you are loyal, not to the Imperium, but to Caliban and to, you know,
to by Luther's, you know, they sort of slowly indoctrinate those space Marines, which is
in their thousands.
And Luther himself is sort of important to mention.
Luther is reading more of these books and he slowly is getting a little bit tainted.
He doesn't really know that he's kind of just feels like he's just getting more powerful.
And as Andy said earlier, beneath Caliban, Zahariel finds this creature slash spirit
called the Ouroboros, which is essentially the, it's like a world spirit of Caliban,
which they believe from the dark engines from Caliban.
They believe like it's the spirit of the world, like Caliban itself, the one the lion has
tried to destroy and get rid of.
Whereas in fact, it's actually just a chaos entity and they don't really know that.
They never really find out.
But that is this Ouroboros, they met like some of them started to like tap into that
power as well.
So there's another kind of layer of corruption.
And then as the heresy is kind of getting close to its end, chapter master Belath arrives
and he's like, I'm here to get the recruits brothers because we've taken a beating during
this heresy.
And essentially this is like, there's like a Caliban red wedding where they bring out
this contingent who, you know, like Luther says, come down, let's have a feast and then
celebrate, you know, all these recruits going off into the stars.
And they slowly start to assess like through like psychic means and through speeches, like
who would be more loyal to Caliban?
Who's more loyal to the lion?
And they place like, you know, silver goblet for the lion, gold goblet for Luther.
And so they put this very meticulous plan to like suss who they have to kill.
And then something just immediately goes wrong.
And then basically all the cobblets get thrown in the air.
Yeah, yeah, there's an argument.
And then like the table gets pushed over and they all fall on the floor.
It's like, oh no, oh, this is annoying.
Oh no, oh no.
I just, you know, I don't know what Luther's not Australian, but he's like, oh no, he's
dropped my goblet bite.
Or might.
And although that was more South African, I see the night I've got my goblet.
He in Caribbean with city Africa.
No, but essentially this red wedding goes poorly.
And it basically ends in a brawl where let's say the right people get marked and Luther
emerges victorious.
And essentially it's a full on open thing where they just say, Caliban, you know, make
Caliban great again.
It's here.
We're Caliban.
We're independent of the Imperium.
Caliban for Calibanites.
Yeah.
So literally that's what they say because they've been a whole beef of theirs throughout
this story.
And they kind of don't choose a side.
They don't choose Horus or the Imperium.
They want to be like an in-between.
Obviously they just want to see who wins.
They're like, whoever wins ensures that Caliban survives.
So we don't care.
And also at this time, should we mentioned the cipher who's still on Caliban?
They find out like he's actually just, he was like a knight of lupus and the lion made
him the last cipher in a way, just to sort of have eyes and ears on Caliban.
Obviously you couldn't reach him.
I think it was like, I can ensure if there's only one left, he's not going to go back to
his order because they're all dead.
He's quite old, I believe.
Oh no.
Is it, there's an old man who's cipher when the lion first starts to raise the order as
Astartes.
He dies a few years after the great crusade starts.
Then he appoints this guy as the current cipher.
And then he's like his little like, I'm going to put you on Caliban just to make sure that
things are running smoothly because I know I'm sending a bunch of resentful Astartes
here and I need you to keep an eye on them.
And he hasn't got any other loyalties because all of his friends are dead.
Like nice one lion, politics.
Yeah.
Well that cipher basically gets killed by Zahariel and Zahariel essentially becomes the new cipher.
And you know, big, you know, big up for Zahariel because that's a pretty big role.
But as in even currently, as we mentioned this in lore, Zahariel is the current cipher
during the siege of Terra, which he is currently fighting upon.
So the four of them actually make like an appearance.
They've like infiltrated some of the dark angels who've made it to Terra and they slightly
pick a side in which they don't want chaos to win, but then they're kind of betraying
their brothers.
Yeah.
There's a weird thing where like, I'll mention one of the characters later, Visago, where
he gets killed by his own brothers because it's like, we want to do the right thing,
but a lot of them are like, oh, we could use this chaos soup to make us strong.
We could use it against the enemy.
And it's like, no, that's not how chaos works.
This is like Anakin Skywalker all over again.
You can't do that.
That's naughty.
Stop it.
Oh, I got a dono from Crimson Glory.
It says, happy old, but my boys, the Kakarodons in Estir last week.
Love you all.
And for the lion.
Also, there are too many.
I can't read that wrong.
Also there are too many, any Crimson chapters.
I was a little ashamed of my name.
There's a couple.
There's a couple of Crimson stuff.
Luckily, there are no Crimson Fists, so like the poster boys are there.
Thanks Crimson.
So basically, Caliban has seceded, Luthor's in charge.
And again, he has basically, I think it says he has 30,000 space marines who are loyal
to Caliban on his side.
And some of these are filled with veterans of the great crusade who have been sent there
by the lion.
And some are just essentially Astartes who have never even seen a battle.
And it's worth remembering that a lot of these, like the majority of these guys have never
even met the lion.
They're like, all they've been told is, oh, he's this dick and he's annoying.
And it's like, that's their only experience of their primal.
Like, yeah, oh, he swears and he calls people names and he doesn't tip white staff.
He's terrible.
And like Luthor is just filling them with all this resentment and stuff.
They've never even met the guy.
This is fake news.
The lion's a perfectly swell guy with no personality deficiencies at all.
The lion will open the yoghurt and not lick the lid.
The absolute heresy of that.
Just it's unbearable.
But essentially, yeah.
Don't say it like that.
Yoghurt.
A bottle of water.
It reminds me like, have you ever seen comments, like when people write in British language,
you fart in what?
I love that so much.
Yeah.
I know people have a go in my H's when I say stuff in my comments.
It's just my accent.
Deal with it.
But essentially...
I need an E.I. Berg as soon as he can.
Two against one.
But yeah, basically the fallen, they don't really call themselves a fallen, but they
are essentially at the seat of terror.
They make an appearance.
And after this, Horus fails.
It all goes wrong.
And so the lion is coming to return home.
So at this point, the lion doesn't know about the betrayal.
So I guess he doesn't really talk to Corse way.
And he's already having a really bad time.
It's like the emperor has been wounded and you were too late to do anything about it.
And he's very cross about that.
Basically a big, you know, lion is taking a big L everywhere.
And he's about to take an even bigger one because as soon as he returns to Caliban,
the Dark Angels, you know, the absolutely ravaged Dark Angels fleet is fired upon by
their own world.
And the battle of Caliban essentially begins.
A lot of the fallen, they don't really know that.
Like they get told like, oh, the lion's firing on us first.
And a lot of them believe Luther's lies.
Luther and the lion themselves duel upon Caliban.
This is even like a really crazy, like horrific part where like some of the fallen talk about
how they remember the lion like landing and he just starts carving through their brothers.
And some of these are like, they've never even fought before.
And this is the first time they see their Primarch and he's just like killing them.
So it's pretty horrible in that sense.
Luther and the lion duel.
Luther gets the Glock 3000 of chaos and he is souped up to basically to be able to, I
think, the lion wins first, then they have a break and then Luther manages to beat him.
They have like a duel and then they go time and they have like some sandwiches and some
finger food, a cup of coffee and they're like, are you ready?
I'm ready.
You got something in your hair.
Basically, the lion can't bring himself to kill Luther because Luther looks bad.
He looks ill.
And eventually they fight again.
Luther actually manages to beat him.
And then it's his turn to basically falter.
And essentially the power of the Ouroboros, particularly underneath and even with like
chaos, it basically erupts underneath the planet and Caliban just breaks.
And actually a plot that comes out later, which is the fallen themselves, they are scattered
throughout space and time.
Although really funny enough, that's from like a future event with Asriel.
Which is like, that's just very annoying, but it's like a timey, timey wimey thing.
I would say like the main thing to remember with the timeline at this point from chaos's
perspective, the golden boy Horus is like, he doesn't exist anymore.
He got like super deaded.
All the traitors are retreating.
So they're like ace in the hole.
Their little like backup plan is we've got this planet.
It's pretty full to the brim with chaos.
We've got a bunch of Vastarhides already being a bit betrayed.
And Luther is going to be our new champion.
So we're going to soup him up.
We're going to give him that good old chaos enema of superpowers or whatever they do to
make him super strong and combat the lion.
I don't know the process.
I'm just assuming.
And so it's like, he's strong enough to fight a Trimarch, even though he's like an old man.
And then for them to lose this like advantage is not good.
So when the duel happens and Luther is like, actually chaos is cringe.
You know that, is it the German guy?
He's like an old meme where he smashes his keyboard on the table.
That's basically chaos.
Like, there you had one job and it's like, this was the one thing we had left.
And like that's chaos.
And now they're stuck with Abaddon.
Yeah.
Felbadan, the war master.
Sorry, thanks.
Sorry, it's that man of terror, but essentially Caliban is in pieces.
I mean, it's like shattering a mirror.
That thing is never getting back together.
So the fallen themselves, they are scattered throughout space and time.
They are essentially just missing.
And then the Dark Angels as well.
They kind of just, the surviving Dark Angels are then broken up into chapters, kind of
think they just gone.
And Luther himself as a member of the fallen is, he post battle of Caliban, he is taken
hold of by the Dark Angels and he is hidden deep within the rock, which is like the last
surviving piece of Caliban, which is where the chapter sort of still resides.
And although in recent lore, he was recently broken out, which is, could be good.
But it's been sort of, depending on if he's sentient enough, there's some interesting
lore about how over millennia he's been somewhat lucid and then chapter masters have been interrogating
him and he's like, every time he blinks, he sees a new chapter master because his mind
is so broken.
I think I missed it because for a moment I thought you were talking about when the lion
get out.
What do you mean he broke out?
I think that's a pure good thing.
He woke up and kicked the hell out of anger on.
I think that's only good.
We'll get to that in a second, but then there's also the mysterious figure named Cypher, who
for millennia has been plaguing the Imperium.
He carries the lion's sword on his back and he seemingly either fights with or against
chaos.
So there may be some hidden clues of like he, his true allegiance is Caliban or in a
way like Caliban spirit.
We're not really sure is again, Cypher is one of those great missions of Warhammer where
it'll be like a good, but also a sad day when it's kind of over.
I don't know how you guys feel about that.
As soon as he's like, he is this, he's irrelevant.
Like the whole, his whole attribute is being mysterious.
And I know there are people like maybe he's Zahariel, maybe he's Corswain, maybe he's
Omega.
Ooh, there's all sorts of theories, but it's like, as soon as we know for sure, he's no
longer a character.
He's just like, Oh, I am Greg the Astartes.
Like, Oh, I didn't care anymore.
That was your one thing.
Contact Kinetic says I was there when Hal showed Nip and I promised you that's not happening.
I'm not like Eli.
I don't get donoed into like eating an egg.
Just quantify listeners don't like that.
I will not be donoed into Nip.
Okay.
Because it's not happening.
No Nip, no egg.
Do you know, we should probably do a Hot Ones episode.
I know I'm not doing that again.
I did that for my own.
I'm not doing that again.
Fuck you.
You did that for 40k, didn't you?
It was, no, I think it was 50k and it came out of like 60k because I was very late.
Think about the views on that one.
If we all did a Hot Ones Warhammer quiz.
I know I did it.
No, I'm not going back.
I'm not going back.
How about this, how about this, Colin, you can, you can host it and we'll be the pawns.
There we go.
We'll be the ones who taste it.
We'll, we'll the ones who will get the burning ring after.
I threw up twice doing that.
I'm done.
I did my time.
Fair enough.
Basically, Cypher is a great sort of mystery, like mystery of Warhammer.
It's kind of like the hit, like the Missing in Primark, kind of like desperate to know
in a way we don't want to know.
But as for the Fallen, unfortunately for the Dark Angels, they start to nickname themselves
the unforgiven because some of the Fallen begin to emerge over time.
And it's a great shame for the Dark Angels because of the huge contingent of, as Colin
said at the beginning, huge contingent of their Legion, which is basically trait, they
believe to be traitorous or is traitorous.
Although there is one Dark Angel successor that like, I don't have anything to repent
for that's cringe.
And they're the only ones who like, we're not unforgiven.
We're like proper Dark Angels.
I'm like, all right, guys, calm down.
Like, come on.
You can't be the Dark Angels.
Yeah, they're over the gil.
The other one.
And this is where we get to the interesting part.
Some of the Fallen, they, just because of the way they've been scattered and sent out
across space and time, some of them do fall to chaos.
They get either manipulated or just being on the run in general from the Imperium, you
kind of just fall into those ways.
Or some of them are tempted.
There's even one such as Marbas, who's a demon prince.
He actually is the one who helped break Luther out of.
He's the only demon prince or the only demonly ascended Dark Angel.
Yeah, he's a Fallen as well, which is kind of neat.
And many of them actually just live and sort of hide and have small lives like nomads essentially.
And they hide amongst civilizations, pockets of humanity, and they age.
Some of them just basically give up war altogether.
Some of them just discard.
They are Astartes and they were bred for war, but some of them just basically put down their
weapons and they go live lives of peace.
Yeah, that opening scene of Inglorious Bastards where the guy turns up and he's just on a
farm, but he's like eight foot tall and he's jacked.
But we visit the Dark Angel.
We got a donation from BunnyCop $5 saying, the custodies die their head to distinguish
themselves from the new bloods made after the heresy.
That's my theory.
Also, Silver Toxism or our we had a rant while you were away going, why is it that some of
them seem to age and the law says they don't age?
It doesn't.
It doesn't make sense.
I think it's not 100% true.
There's just the theory that the Astartes of the heresy and Great Crusade era, the gene
seed was in a way fresher and much more potent.
They could probably live a lot longer.
Where modern, a lot of the first born quote unquote space brains in the 40th millennium,
not primaris, they were essentially made with gene seed that was a copy of a copy of a copy
of a copy.
Yeah.
It's like how Imperial Fists can't spit acid anymore.
I was like, that sucks.
That's really cool.
Yeah, basically the genes, no matter what you do, the genes over time just wasn't like
anything.
It just was prone to just degradation over time.
Some of it could also just be no solid answer because most space Marines kick the bucket
before you get a chance to see how old they can get.
Just because the space Marines, they're always in the fiercest of battles.
It's like, well, you're probably not going to reach like a thousand, however old you
can be because you are on the front line at every possible moment.
But my theory with the custodians particularly is that they age because they have to stand
still for like several years at a time.
The companions have to stay still for like 50 years doing nothing.
It's like, well, you might as well change your hair follicle color, do something with
your time.
I don't know.
Yeah, spice it up.
Boring as hell.
Paint your nails.
Kill a heretic or two.
It's okay.
Nothing better to do.
It's okay.
But a lot of the fallen, this is the kind of, they are, it's why they're such a secret
and like the lower tier of this, like the deepest level of this knowledge is that they
are just a hidden, almost in plain sight, great shame of the dark angels chapter that
for millennia, they, only those in the inner circle in the highest levels know them and
they are hunted.
Even the fallen who seemingly don't know what happened even like on Caliban, they are hunted
down and they're basically tortured until they quote unquote confess to their sins and
then they are given death.
Because I suppose there's the interesting thing about the fallen.
Some of them are like proper, they're in the weeds, they're doing chaos.
Others are like, oh, I'm a renegade.
I don't believe in the lion.
Some of them didn't even know the guy.
And they're just like, I'm just trying, like, I was, I was, I was a guy, I was a farmer
and then I became an Astartes and then the lion blew up my planet.
I don't know what's going on.
Why are you torturing me?
Like that's kind of the scale of the fallen.
Or some of them, I think.
Some of them even like Asteland, he's actually captured by the dark angels and his confession
slash interrogation basically shows like he just straight up hates the lion because he
thought the lion had betrayed the emperor.
Well, do you know the thing about he's the one who ordered that Caliban's defenses shot
on their fleet?
He's the guy who's responsible for them shooting the lion's fleet.
Oh, Asteland, you naughty boy.
This is the guy who was, this was the guy who was there during the great crusade.
So he was a dark angel long before the lion ever was.
So this guy is, I think even he has like braids, I think, in his hair.
He looks nothing like the rest of them.
He's like Holguin where they're like, we went through like the, not the unification, but
like after unification before this whippersnapper was in charge of our Legion.
I don't like these guys.
But Holguin's like a badass because like I'm the first commander of the deaf wing.
Yep, I'm the war crimes division.
Yeah.
But as we approach this sort of zenith where like most of, I wouldn't say most of, but
like quite a few, it's very rare for the dark angels even find a fallen.
I think some interrogative chaplains, the most one, I think the one who got the most
ever fallen, I think had got like three or four in his lifetime, he managed to get them
like to catch them and then confess.
So the dark angels like seemingly have not found that many fallen.
But the ones they have found have, as Colin even said at the beginning, they will leave
entire sectors to die because they're like, we need to go find, hunt this rumor that this
dark angel that's wearing black armor and has red iconography is somewhere there.
So they will run for that.
But now we sort of approach the 41st millennium and as we said earlier, the lion returns to
40k.
Yeah, baby.
The lion is back, baby.
He is old.
He's got the receding hairline like all of us here, but a little bit more advanced and
you know, big forehead game.
Love it.
And the lion returns the setting.
He awakens in this dark forest part.
Again, I can't really go too much detail.
Oh, sorry.
Another donor from Crimson Glory.
Loyalty is its own reward.
Hell yes.
That's the lion's phrase.
And as a lion sort of wanders his way back into the setting, he finds a space marine
in like Mark IV old armor and his name is Zabriel.
And Zabriel was a Terran who was there on Caliban during its destruction.
And it's sort of a great part in this recent lion book where the lion and Zabriel sort
of come to terms.
They basically kind of like actually say what's not been said for all like, you know, I thought
you betrayed us or the lion was like, I didn't betray you.
Luther was corrupted by chaos and he went, oh, I didn't know that.
That's fake news.
Sight your sources.
Yeah, you know, it's based.
Back in my day, we did things differently.
I mean, I'm not that old, you're 10,000 years old.
I've only been awake five minutes.
Zabriel looks old as well, which is interesting.
Zabriel looks like an older star and he's one of the first iterations.
So it shows you how old he is.
And they kind of have a reconciliation between them where Zabriel understands that the lion
isn't a traitor in any way.
And then he was lied to.
And the lion kind of stands like he jumped to conclusions and he's a bit too hasty in
disposing.
You're saying he gave him an intervention.
He's like, we care about you.
We love you, but you're a bit hasty.
We love you, but you're arse.
To be fair to the lion, and I am the last person who would step in defense of a Primarch
if I didn't think they really needed it.
They did start shooting at him in orbit first.
I think most people would probably take that as a...
Dad's now bound to the throne and his arms off.
Oh, his arms off.
Oh, this is terrible.
I know the lion's whole mind state was like, I'm going back to Kaladvan to clear my head
so we can take some time, focus.
He gets there and it's like bang, bang.
He's like, oh, what the fuck?
That's where he gets back to where he's supposed to be like, this is my home and they're shooting
me.
Imagine if you went to your parents and then all of a sudden they had Uzis pinned on you
at the doorstep.
Excuse me, what's going on?
What's happening?
Your parents have Uzis as a sight.
If he landed on a planet, there was a standoff and then he started killing.
You know, maybe you'd jump the gun a bit.
But orbital defense cannons, I tend to think those are the final word on what's going to
go down.
What's going to go down is a lot of violence.
This detail might change your opinion a bit.
The part he mostly apologizes for is the banishment of the, like some of the Terrans and the Kalabanites
back to Kalaban after the first battle on Sarroshi.
So he says like he was too hasty in not like trusting some of his men and that again, like
it was a mistake as well to leave them and then not even communicate with Kalaban for
that, like basically during the rest of the great crusade.
He says he basically sort of apologizes to Zabriel for his actions there.
And Zabriel was like, this guy's like different.
He's not the same.
Like the lion of old would never apologize for anything.
You're not you when you're hungry.
Have a nap.
You're not you when you're hungry.
Execute a heretic.
Bit of a goof.
So they essentially join up and the lion has his first fallen who no longer seems to be
fallen and he's now believing in the lion once more.
And they fight to liberate the world they landed upon, which has been decimated by a
chaos warband.
They eventually save some of the normal people.
It's a kind of interesting take where the lion just says to himself, I've done being
a commander slash a ruler.
I never wanted to be a ruler.
I just wanted to do what I did on Kalaban, which is I like help protect people fight
beasts.
He's like the only reason he ever became the grand master of the order was to help basically
fight the beasts better rather than like he ruling is a Giliman thing.
It's not a lion is literally like we're going back to the first album, going back to my
roots, just killing beasts.
Because that's what I do best.
Ever since I was wearing my loin cloth, wielding my spear, killing massive like mega Lodons
or whatever it was.
That's what I'm good at.
That's what I love to do.
I'm going back to my roots.
It's going back to George in the jungle.
The origins Giliman can do taxes.
That's fine.
We like him.
He loves these like brother.
Look at all these rebates and like well done, Giliman.
Nice.
Do you think Giliman softly moans when he sees numbers?
Yes.
He makes an audible like when he sees like look at all these like loots.
Loopholes I can use to make the most efficient rebates and also use them for financial gain
to put into that.
That's that's the noise he makes.
Oh, another one from the glory here.
Thank you so much, brother.
He says also never forget chapter master Azrael almost got bodied by Lord Arcos from the other
boys the Alpha Legion during the siege of Vrax.
I know the siege ends, but he was so close.
Yeah, Azrael.
A lot of chapter masters, like even the Calgar one, and that is basically so close to death.
And then they just kind of like they tease it like, you know, or maybe he could die.
But then he is a model.
Although Azrael survived a fight with Khan.
That's pretty cool.
He knew he wasn't going to win it, though.
He'd have to delay.
Yeah.
He had to BS his way to win.
He like made it out, but it was like you held your own against Khan.
That's pretty cool.
That was pretty mental.
And so Lion and Zabriel, you know, locking in four arms, they are best buds again.
And they eventually find their they sort of the lion discovers his new ability, which
is like the kind of forest walk thing where basically he can teleport or walk through
a walk sort of corridor made by his own mind.
And they eventually just he does it by accident and they find themselves on an imperial world.
And the lion is like formally declared like returned to the Imperium as like a is a kind
of cool part scene where like the lion is like, I don't like this.
And then the planetary governor goes, this is a psycho is going to look into your mind
and he goes like psychers being willingly used.
That's different.
And then the psycho just basically looks into his mind and immediately crumbles to his knees
and goes, it's a Primarch.
Oh my God.
He's coming in with a steel chair in my brain.
Yeah.
And you know, the world there's a funny part where the governor gives up her like quarters
to the lion and he has to push like three beds together because he doesn't quite fit
on all beds, which is like I love it.
I love that little part that like even in the Gilman book where he has like, you know,
that lines me off.
It's like Andre the giant, the wrestler, he had to like do his business in the bathtub
because he couldn't use toilets because he was so large.
I'm like, oh, does the lion have to do that?
That's a shame.
Like, look at this, like proud proud son of the emperor.
He's like, I need a bigger toilet.
This one is that small.
Primarch, I need the toilet.
The most devastating loss was Rogal Dorn because no one could build the Primarch sized shitters
anymore.
He was laying bricks.
I've always loved like there's a Gilman has a room where everything's Primarch size and
even he thinks that's odd.
And then when Korax is on terror, like they they arrive after Isfahan and the Raven guard
is basically decimated.
Korax arrives in these chambers and it's all Primarch sized and like a swimming pool that's
Primarch sized.
He kind of goes, this is weird because all the attendants are like normal people.
I love the idea of a Primarch sized egg cup and it's like a goose egg, but it's like,
oh, it's small.
Like, oh, I can do like little little what they call them soldiers where you dip them
in the egg.
Like, oh yeah, that's great.
Oh, one last part.
Primarch sized things.
It's the part where it's in the Dark Imperium book and Gilman's like leaving his quarters
on Macragge's honor and takes off his robes and then just dumps onto a like a human attendant
and this thing drowns him, the attendant, because he's like, oh my god, it's so much.
It's like an old curtain.
Struggling to hold it.
One, one.
Sorry, it's like three curtains dropped on the human.
Before you say what you're going to say, Colin, we've got another donation from Anthony for
twenty dollars saying Saffron is the best archangel.
He's a Chad.
He is a Chad.
But basically.
Go ahead, say again.
Oh, just one final thing to end that train of thought.
Holger was married.
What are the mechanics of that?
They were they were they were political matters, though, like he they basically even he'd even
call him.
He was married several times.
They didn't survive long.
The process.
Yeah, I know.
I try and plug that out.
Smushed into the furniture in one stroke.
Moving on, moving on.
Especially that basically the light ends.
They're now in this imperial world and the lion instructs Zabriel to basically find more
fallen and Zabriel was able to do this by seeing secret symbols and like dark old dark
angel as much like the dark angels had secrets, even in the modern times, the dark angel of
the heresy area had even more like secret orders and hierarchies hidden within them.
Zabriel was able to find these markings that mean nothing to most people, but he understands
what they mean.
And he stumbles across three other fallen.
He finds Afkar, Kai and Lohok.
And it's very odd for Zabriel because Zabriel was recruit like his captain, I think, was
Afkar.
And yet now Zabriel is way older than Afkar.
So just stop you there for a second.
I can't not leave this for any longer.
Neon LF Graves donated two euros saying Andre was seven foot tall for literally twice as
tall as Colin.
Oh man.
Man.
Pain.
He's not that short, guys.
Come on.
We've met.
I've met Colin in real life.
He's not short.
We're all in the five foot range, aren't we?
I'm five foot eleven.
Yeah, we're all in that five foot range, guys.
Calm down.
I'm one centimeter of a six foot.
Very sad.
I'm not tall enough to call myself six foot.
So don't even lie.
I love it here.
And I was like, oh yeah.
So as Zabriel finds these other fallen and he beats Captain Afkar who I got these are
kind of they are fallen who they've met up over.
They haven't actually a few of them have not even been spat out of whatever the fall of
Caliban was like even not long ago.
Some like have only been outside for a few decades, whereas Zabriel has been, you know,
centuries in millennia for him.
And there's even one of their members who like he refuses to take off his helmet at
any point because he's space.
He says, I've like created my own oath.
And then Zabriel tells him like, hey, the lion's back.
And they go, ah, because they have mixed feelings about it.
But Zabriel tries to explain to them like, this is different.
Luther lied to us.
You know, he didn't betray, you know, the lion wasn't a traitor or anything like that.
Or we weren't, you know, but you're trying to explain like it wasn't, we don't, we didn't
know the facts and now we do.
So would you meet with him?
It's literally the meme.
We used to be good.
We used to be bad guys, but now we're good.
Like that's the meme.
And they do actually meet the lion and it's an interesting part where they see him and
they go, is he the lion?
He looks a little old.
And then one of them, one of the guys, Kai, just it stated he could have been an emperor's
children because he's kind of arrogant.
He basically says, let's just find out if you are the lion.
And he basically attacks the lion and it's weird.
Like they say, he's holding his own, but it's because the lion's trying not to kill him.
And like he's holding it off.
Whereas Kai is like purposely leaving himself open to retaliation and making crazy like
attacks, no defense.
Cause he is trying to test if it's a lion.
Then to the lion disarms him and Kai basically kneels and goes like, you really are different
because the lion of all would probably would have killed me for attacking a Primarch or
something.
And then Lohok even, it's an interesting part here where it says in the book Lohok is someone
who he immediately joins the lion.
Cause he basically goes, I was, you know, a hunter in Caliban.
I was meant to slay beasts, I'll slay beasts with the lion again.
And he never moves his mask.
He never, it's like everyone kind of thinks, is he like for maybe?
We're not sure.
And Afkhar joins.
Go any further.
You mentioned Emperor's children.
We've got two donations.
One from Tom Warren saying, maybe Fulgrim was just small for a Primarch.
So his obsession with perfection was him overcompensating.
Well, because Eli is not here, I think that's accurate.
Yes.
That's now, I consider that with all three of us here who are lore masters, that's now
canon and we can move on from that.
It explains the teeny weeny nickname they used to call him in heresy.
And we also got a $2 donation from Crimson Glory saying Fulgrim was married to only fans
models.
Possibly.
I mean, to be fair at the time, they've probably gone way beyond what we could even think is
like, who knows what the new sphere was up to.
Only wives.
Only warp.
Although I like the Orcs version.
Only wah.
There's loads watching videos of Orcs, other Orcs fighting me and like, yeah, yeah, wah.
Who's gonna go in with this nine inch machete?
Yeah, let's not go too far down that path because we have parents who kind of respect
us.
Not really.
But basically, these fallen, they meet the lion and this is where they become the first
of the, they quote, quote, quote redeemed, where the lion sort of says, there's nothing
to be forgiven.
We all made mistakes.
I've made mistakes.
You were lied to.
I don't blame you whatsoever.
You know, you're no longer what, you know, because they know like the Dark Ages hunt
them and they call them the fallen.
So like, you are not the fallen in my eyes, I can see if you have chaos taint.
So I will call you the redeemed and Zabriel, Afkar, Kai and Lohok become the first of the
redeemed.
And then sort of some shenanigans happen where the world the lion is on gets attacked and
the warband or chaos warband attacking them.
They find out that one of the commands of the ship is another fallen.
He's like, oh my god, the lion, you're back, bro.
And he's like, yeah, bro, I'm here.
And he goes, oh, sick.
I've been waiting for this.
And so I hope that's exactly what he said in the book.
And then brother Sephava, he said, oh, sick.
I like that.
Hey, you're back.
Dabbed up in the past, mate.
That's that's that's that sound, mate.
That sound from the night.
That sound.
I mean, I'm pretty sure down to the planet.
I'm pretty sure Dark Angels have secret handshakes because it's a secret.
And so they end up in basically another group end up during the lion.
The lion finds two more and he speaks to another group of fallen who have been protecting civilians
in like an old I think it's an old Eldar, like broken down area like or ship or something
like that.
They basically so the fallen have just been they've been living weird lives.
They even even meet some fallen who there's an interesting part here where the warband
deal with many members who were previously fallen.
And this is led by a chaos lord called Seraphax, who was a fallen as well.
And they are they are trying to recruit other members of the fallen Dark Angels.
Some of them.
There's an interesting part where Zabriel and another Dark Angel are trying to talk
to another fallen and basically convince him.
This guy sort of goes, I'm kind of done with war.
I can't side with any of you.
I truly, you know, I don't really want to I don't really want to fight much.
And then although he does get convinced by Zabriel, just meet the lion just to talk to
him.
And eventually he does.
And it does sort of build up into an encounter where they the lion finds out the world he
initially liberated with Zabriel before they went to the world they're currently on.
That was burned down to the ground by the warband as like a sort of revenge thing, because
the people who were liberated on their said, we've been liberated by the lion.
And then the fallen Lord Seraphax went, huh, that's interesting.
What did you mean the lion?
And that was obviously a symbol.
And the this leads to an encounter with Seraphax, who tries to lure the lion into a trap.
He wants to use the lion to basically possess his body to assassinate the emperor.
But it's in a weird way where like, again, Lord Seraphax is a chaos lord, but he's not
his taint is a bit different, because he wants to kill the emperor.
So the emperor can become a god in the war like he's meant to be.
So in a way, it's that kind of like there's like Inquisition group who believe the same
thing.
But the basic the reasonings and the motivation of the fallen are all convoluted and twisted.
And it's a it's some lofty goals for this third rate.
Nobody chaos lord.
Yeah.
And Lord Seraphax is a sorcerer or psychic as well.
So he's able to lure the lion into a trap.
And if I remember correctly, it's a trap made like this shining metallic mirror.
And it's made from extracting the iron out of an entire world's worth of blood.
So he he maskers an entire world takes the iron out and turns into like a sorceress like
cage thing.
And he managed to trap the lion.
Losey, like some of the fallen are fighting, the risen now are fighting with the lion.
And one of the sorcerer guys who the one who like I mentioned earlier, who he didn't really
want to fight, he sort of says his last words to the lion saying, you know, I'm not as strong
with this guy, but I can give you a moment.
But it will kill me.
And he the lions apologize that they didn't really get a time to sort of fix up and patch
get their relationship and or their bond.
And then that form basically gives his life for a moment.
The lion then pounced on Seraphax, who, by the way, I should mention as well, half of
Seraphax's face is on fire the entire time.
He's not burning.
He's a horse rider.
Basically half his face is on fire the entire time and no one acknowledges it.
Most of the time.
His face is on fire.
It's funny.
And I'm a great singer.
The weird thing is like, because the fallen that like behind the lion are still trapped,
the lion doesn't immediately kill Seraphax.
Like he pins him down and says, like, release my sons.
And it's a stupid move because Seraphax just again, like traps him up.
And he like, you know, you really are not the same lion as before.
And this all triggers something in Seraphax's second in command, who was a fallen, because
he was someone who he was the guy early who tried to convince the guy to join the war
ban instead and had the two like dialogues competing for fallen royalties.
And he sort of goes, oh, shit, the lion really is different.
And so he betrays Seraphax.
And it's a very sad bit, because even though he stabs Seraphax and he manages to kill
him and the fight, the fall in the line are released.
This guy, unfortunately, he's like, he has redeemed himself, but he's too filled with
chaos taint and the lion can see it.
One of his abilities where he can, he can only redeem fallen angels who are not tainted
by chaos.
And unfortunately, this one is like good effort, but no, I think we did have another donor.
Is it Lutti McShootie, he says too much war, not enough.
Oh, thing on the way there.
Too much war, not enough hammers, sadge.
I think Eli made a funny comment in our discord where he identifies a hammer, which is hilarious.
And essentially the lion here, he has to kill this fallen who, yeah, unfortunately, he's
tainted by chaos.
And he even says like, I don't want to kill another one of my sons.
And the fallen angel begs him, like, you know, give me the dignity of an honorable death.
And so he does it with his sexy new sword, Fealty, I think it's called.
And this is where we begin where the lion has now sort of got his band of risen and
many of the other sort of elements of the fallen, the ones who are not corrupted by
chaos, they are starting to come out of the woodworks and he essentially is forgiving.
They are, you know, they actually call the risen or the redeemed.
They are forgiven for the miscommunication, miscommunications of the Caliban civil war.
And even now, I think recently in law, they, the lion, when he went to go fight Angron,
he was surrounded by like a crack squad of Dark Angel, when he was reunited with the
Dark Angel's chapter, he is now surrounded by Dark Angels in black armor.
And I remember Asriel goes, that's weird.
And I think Zabriel even offers like Asriel a hand when they're fighting Angron.
He goes like, here, brother, let me help.
And Asriel goes, don't touch me, you disgusting thing.
Ew, get off.
Ew.
Unclean.
He is, yeah, Asriel is not like, that's probably a weird thing that I'm going to have to contend
with, but essentially.
Asriel is probably having a stroke.
Yeah, he's, they're not.
Thropping out the mouth, chained to his bed like, brah.
They're probably marks around and I'm sure there might be some inquisition.
I feel sorry for Asmodei.
What's he going to do for a hobby now?
It's like, I can't interrogate Fallen anymore.
What am I going to do?
Like learn crochet?
What am I going to do?
That's my thing.
He can watch more law crimes.
And a lot of Fallen elements now, in particularly as we're recording this, they are members
of the lion's sort of personal guard and they're called like this sort of the circle.
A lot of them don't talk to the other elements of the dark angels or sort of a bow of silence
between them.
I think it's mostly to keep their identities sort of even then secret from his own chapter
because it can be quite shameful that, Hey, these are the guys that there will be, have
to be a reckoning between the Fallen who are now part of the lion's garden and like the
dark angels who are like, we basically hunted you for millennia.
Like, yeah, I know.
And it's literally just them just going, we good?
No, we good?
No.
All right.
So dad says it's fine.
Many of the Fallen elements, the thousands who are not corrupted, they are sort of flocking
to the lion's banner.
And that's kind of the current, the law of the Fallen.
There's obviously still, I should mention as well, Cypher is still around and he's doing
shenanigans as a whole.
We'll obviously might save it for his entire episode on him, but essentially Cypher helped
bring back Gilliam and he was on terror and now he's kind of scattered the wind and he's
hiding.
And then Gilliam put him in jail and then he immediately broke out.
Yeah.
And some of the other, he has members of the Fallen who are working with him.
So they might have like a third element to like the Fallen sort of factions where there's
a middle ground where they're not pro-imperial or pro-chaos or something like that.
So we'll have to see what they do with that.
But as for current law, that is mostly the sort of gist of how the Fallen happened from
Caliban to its own rebellion to the Luther lies, to the civil war, to its sort of reunification
and the repairing of that broken Legion essentially.
And Luther, again, Luther's still out there as well.
We should mention about Luther still.
They haven't touched his law yet, but he's basically, he's in the ether and he might
do something kind of sus because big secrets and we'll never know the truth.
But that is mostly the Fallen law.
Does anyone have any tidbits or anything they want to add on to towards that at the end
there?
I got some characters we could briefly touch on, but other than that, not much.
I'll go for it.
Go for it.
So I have a few characters just to give you an idea of what they're about.
So we've already talked about some of the big ones like Cypher and Luther.
I think it's worth pointing out that Luther, when he was imprisoned, was imprisoned for
like millennia, but he was in a weird like stasis cell where he kept like being interrogated
by the supreme grandmaster of the dark angels, who's the only one who has knowledge that
he's in the cells.
So when you become the chapter master of the dark angels, kind of like the bottom of like
your agreement to sign like, yes, I will take care of the dark angels.
Like the very bottom of the agreement of the contracts.
By the way, Luther's locked up downstairs.
Like what?
Like, yeah, he's there.
Make sure to feed the gimp we have in the basement.
Feed Luther every few hundred years.
But his cell is like, for him, like a few hours will pass, or it will be a few hundred
years.
And then occasionally in his book, he keeps being like interviewed by, or interrogated
by guys who are like, you're not the chapter masters.
Like, I am now.
I've been the chapter master for a hundred years.
Like, oh, okay.
But when he's released, he's freed from the rock.
So we mentioned Marbas earlier.
I was going to say with Luther, it's like having, as like full perspective, it's like
finding Judas in someone's basement.
Yeah.
Imagine you're the Pope.
And then it's like, by the way, at the bottom of the Vatican, we have like, Judas is locked
up downstairs.
What?
Yeah.
Just so you know.
And he speaks English as well.
Enjoy being in charge of Rome.
It's like, yeah, yeah.
But yeah, so like Marbas, we mentioned briefly, he's the only fallen angel to ascend to a
demon prince.
He's the only dark angel fallen to become a demon host.
So during the 41st millennium, he invaded the rock and he basically managed to do enough
damage that he retrieved it back into the warp.
He's still at large, but he freed Luther.
And so Luther escaped after like 10 millennia of being locked up.
But at least from his book, as far as I can tell, he was very regretful about how he betrayed
the lion and such.
And he's now seemingly free of the taint of chaos.
So at this moment in time, we don't really know what he's about.
We don't know if he's going to form a coup against the lion.
We don't know if he's going to join his forces and reconcile.
He's kind of on the fence.
But as far as I'm aware, the consensus is he's going to be a problem.
He's going to be a thorn in the lion's side.
Even if it's just out of resentment, his jealousy, whatever it is, I'm not sure what they're
going to do with Luther in terms of the law.
But that's that.
It reminds me of that Arps of Omen thing.
I don't even know where that's going.
The dude's got the key.
And it's just not gone anywhere for like a whole year.
So yeah, we'll have to see.
But Wama is a setting and lots of changes.
The lion and Gilliman is like the biggest thing we've ever had happen.
And that's ages.
So we've already touched on Safer, so I won't say much, but basically whatever he's up to,
he's around a lot.
He sides with loyalist and traitor forces at a whim as long as he gets things done.
He was instrumental on helping Rabute, Gilliman escape from the Red Corsairs during their
imprisonment on their way to Holy Terror to stop the Indomitus Crusade.
It's fair to say that Safer seems to have his heart in the right place in terms of helping
the Imperium.
He just doesn't care how he gets it done.
He'll be in charge of demon hosts or chaos-based marines, but he'll also help loyalists.
And if it wasn't for that, then they kept shooting him whenever he's involved in helping
the Dark Angels.
Like there's one story where I believe the current chapter master of the era for the
Dark Angels is killed.
So Safer drags his body away from, I think it's the Orcs, so they don't take his armor,
just so that the Dark Angels can reclaim it.
And then he just disappears before he gets shot.
He's like, ah, he's trying to do the right thing, but he doesn't care what the methods
are.
Another interesting fallen is Attias the Untamed.
He was an Astartes that grew up with Zahariel and some of the original Dark Angels who were
from Caliban.
He got massively wounded by Xenos during the Savos campaign.
Ah, yes.
And his skull got split open.
So they had to fit this, I know during the stream I've had a picture of him where he's
like, ah, got this big angel statue behind him, but he had this gigantic like helmet
thing put over his head.
And so it kind of became like a cyborg Dark Angel, but because of how he looked, everyone
was unnerved by him.
They're like, we like Attias, but ugh.
His story is really sad because he's slightly younger than, I think it was Zahariel and
his cousin, they joined the, like the quote unquote order at the age of like 13 or 14
or something.
Yeah.
And he's like the little kid who they're all like, ah, look out for him because he's so
nice.
He's really bubbly.
He's like, yeah guys, let's go hunt some beasts.
He's so upbeat.
And then he manages to like to live throughout like some horrific beast encounters.
Like, oh my God, I can't believe we lived.
And then his first battle, his face gets blown off.
And then every time they're in like a Thunderhawk with him, he's just like staring in front.
He's like, what'd you say to me?
And like nothing.
Cool.
Yeah, that's what I thought.
So yeah, his whole demeanor is ruined after that battle.
Poor guy.
He also gets captured originally by the Crimson Slaughter warband.
Then Asmodei, I can't remember which chapter he links up with, but he links up with a chapter
in one of the audio books and they go like, he's like, oh, I am doing my own thing.
And they don't know he's looking for a, he's looking for a fallen.
So they find Asmodei, Atayas, and he's like, if you free me from the Crimson Slaughter,
I'll help you like escape.
I don't have any ill blood, but like, I understand you're probably going to capture me.
So they fight off the Crimson Slaughter and then Asmodei is like, bof, and then they interrogate
him and we don't know if he's alive or dead.
All we know that is the last thing that we know about in the books at least was he was
captured by Asmodei and then he was like, oh, I used to be a proud dark angel and now
I'm here.
Life sucks.
That's probably not going to go well, I think that pisses pants.
I think I would Asmodei for reference people, Asmodei is a recent model that's just come
out as a time recording and he is terrifying.
Repent!
This guy is probably the most intimidating chaplain.
I mean, I would die even over black Templars, I'd say.
He loves interrogating people.
Meria Astelion, like I said, he was one of the chapter masters of the Dark Angels Legion,
so there were lots of chapter masters in charge of different like big compilations of the
Legion.
Yeah, he was the guy he fired on the fleet when they arrived to Caliban.
One of the original 136 sent to Caliban for penitence.
He escaped the rock after being captured a few millennia into the 36th millennia, or
30th millennium sometime after the scouring, he was captured.
He was interrogated for a long time.
Then he escaped.
He wanted to form a new Legion with the Death Guard called the Death Angels, which were
like hybrids where he used gene seed and Death Guard and fallen angels to like make a like
a weird mishmash.
That didn't go well.
Yeah, he worked with Typhus and didn't go very well.
And to this day, he's still being hunted by the Dark Angels as far as I'm aware.
Do you reckon it would have been like in Ankh-A-Man when the guy goes, it smells like the inside
of a fake leg.
Like a very specific like taint.
Yeah.
We've already mentioned Zahariel.
Maybe he's Cypher, maybe he's not.
All we know is Zahariel dueled with Corswain, who was like the Seneschal of the Dark Angels
during the Horus heresy, like the best fighter they had.
And all we know is that one of them died, one of them survived.
Some people think Zahariel's Cypher, some people think it's Corswain, some people think
it's Alpharius, some people think it's anyone.
Who knows?
I think in the current lore as well, they both stopped the duel because they wanted
to fight off Typhus of the Death Guard who's attacking the Ashonomicon.
So even now, I have a theory like it might be both of them.
Well, this is the thing.
I was going to say like the last character I know is Visago, who's a librarian of the
Fallen.
So he was present during the Siege of Terra and the Dark Angels as a whole weren't involved,
but Corswain and his fleet helped during the Siege of Terra because they assaulted the
Hollow Mountains.
And during this battle, Luthor sent Visago and a bunch of Fallen Angel to be like, hey,
we're kind of helping.
It's only a pittance of our forces, but just to save face, if things go south and we have
to side with the Imperium again, we can at least say, oh, we did send some guys.
So they helped Corswain's units.
Visago saved Corswain's life during the battle, but the men under his command, like Visago
was a lieutenant of Zahariel.
And at this point, Zahariel was kind of under the clutches of chaos a bit because he's kind
of hearing the whispers in Caliban.
He's being a bit shady.
So during the battle, they saved Corswain and his men.
And then the rest of his squad or his battalion are like, hey, we should use the warp to stop
chaos.
And Visago's a librarian.
He's like, no, mate, that's stupid.
You don't know what you're talking about.
If you use the warp, you're going to be like the guys we've just been fighting.
And they go, no, that's cringe.
And so they just kill him.
And it's like, oh, he was a fallen angel out of circumstance rather than choice.
He was loyal to the Imperium, loyal to the lion and humanity, but he got killed anyway
and he died as a renegade.
Those are the only ones I wanted to mention, but it's just like a little bit of extra spice
at the end of the episode.
I think the fallen part honestly makes the dark angels kind of like way more interesting
than they ever.
It's just such a good element where I think of particularly the ultramarines.
I don't know if you agree, Colin, but it might be cool if there was a kind of contingent
or shameful part of the ultramarine.
This is basically, what's the version of ultramarines gone bad and it's not just here on Blackheart?
I mean, the closest I guess there is is the whole Imperium secundus thing that Gilliman's
done a pretty solid job of removing from history.
Oh, embarrassing that part.
Yeah.
I know the meme about the fallen angels is just like, just tell the Imperium, you'll
be fine.
But I have a bit of a hot take in that regard.
Oh, go for it.
Go for it.
So if you think of the nine loyalist legions at the end of the Horus heresy, I like to
break them into three camps.
You've got the broken legions.
So you've got Salamanders, Raven Guard, Ironhands.
They are so destroyed by the end of the war.
No matter what they're doing, it's kind of like, oh, they can only do so much damage.
Oh, you're still there.
You've got, oh, Raven Guard, I've got over here.
Oh, that's fine.
You've got the defenders.
So White Scars, Blood Angels, Imperial Fists, they were there during the Siege of Terror.
Even though the White Scars had a few traitors and the Blood Angels have some weird stuff
going on with the Red Fist and the Black Rage, they're like untouchable and like, you were
here.
Jagatai, at least from Imperial records at the time, died in the battle.
Sanguineous died in the battle.
Rogal Dawn barely made it through, and he was the one in charge of the defense.
You can't really have a go at those three.
And then you have the three legions who weren't there.
Dark Angels, Ultramarines, Space Wolves.
Ultramarines are Ultramarines.
They're the biggest remaining legion by far.
They have their entire empire.
Robutei Gilamins installed as the Lord Commander at the end of the Horus heresy and also in
Imperium in the Ereindomatus.
Pretty much untouchable.
Space Wolves, their whole gimmick is they're wild and uncontrollable.
Not like in a fun White Scars way.
It's like, no, they just do what they want.
But again, they're always there when shit hits the fan and they do a good job.
Dark Angels, sorry.
They were also pretty badly cut down during the heresy.
So it's arguably not even worth the effort if they really wanted to be gone.
And even though these three legions are the largest by the end of the heresy, they've
still, other than the Ultramarines, everyone's taken a battering.
And even though the Ultramarines took a battering, they're still massive.
They lost a third of their force or something in Kalf, but they still have almost 200,000
stars.
He's like, yeah, we're fine.
But the Dark Angels are like, one, they're the template for all the Astartes to follow.
So if they had a hint of chaos corruption, that puts the entirety of the Adeptus Astartes
into question.
Two, the line is, according to the Imperium, at the end of the Battle of Caliban, he's
dead by all accounts.
And his homeworld is destroyed.
They're in a really rough spot to then be like, hey, I know our Primarch's dead and
our planet's destroyed and we weren't there during the Siege of Terror.
Just letting you know, a bit of chaos corruption.
Don't worry about it.
Like, nah, that would...
Dark Angels, get rid of...
I know that the meme is like, oh, you could just say we had a little bit of corruption
like the White Scars, but the White Scars didn't have corruption.
They just had renegade-ism.
They were like, oh, we think the War Master is a good friend of ours.
We should side with him.
And then Jagged Fire was like, no, bad White Scars.
Naughty.
The only way to settle with that is like, one of those things, you preempt it with even
worse news, which is the entire Legion has fallen to chaos and rescinded our loyalty
to the Emperor.
Like, what?
No, just kidding.
But a few of them have done that.
And so it's not as bad as you think.
But I feel like the Ultramanians would still be like, hey, we're going to do a monarchy
at 2.0.
Let's just get rid of the rest of them just in case.
I think it was because the Dark Angels, they essentially just kind of...
I guess it's during the era of the scouring.
Essentially, it's just a time period of vengeance.
So maybe they just thought, crap.
I mean, the Imperium is looking for targets.
So that's just not...
I mean, Lozies legions are basically like, I'm pissed.
Let's go crack some skulls.
And they do.
Let's go get blown up at the Iron Cage.
I wonder, I will do wonder how they're going to announce the...
Because as of time recording, the last Siege of Terror book has just dropped.
I still don't know anyone who's currently just read it yet.
But that'll be an interesting thing because that's like literally the end of the entire
horrors here.
Much to Boris Collins' delight, so that maybe the GW authors can start reading it.
We've got more scouring books to come.
So you're not out of the woods yet.
I know I'm not.
God damn it.
It's not going to be really cool though, which is if Aaron Demske Bowden, who wrote the Night
Lords trilogy, if he could...
Because there's been enough time.
Let him have the reins again.
In the end of that, there's a massive setup of Wesey, Craftworld, Orthwave versus Night
Lords.
Let's see it.
Let's have the battling out sort of thing.
I know people are like, where's Decimus?
We like him.
Come on.
Yeah.
I was just like, you know, with the Fallen as well.
It'd be very cool if there are still elements of the Fallen who are, particularly on tabletop,
still part of the Chaos line.
So you can get Fallen who are...
You can have in your Chaos space green design, but then also Fallen, also Risen who are part
of...
I think you will.
We're about to get Risen who are part of the Inner Circle or in the Dark Angels release.
It'd be very cool if there's like a Chaos...
I think because you can still play, even now, the current old Fallen models, can't you?
The Dark Angels Fallen models on tabletop, I think.
If you know Colin.
You can check the web store real quick.
It depends if it's still available in the GW store.
You know, that's a good point.
I don't think...
I am fortunate I don't play Chaos Space Marine, but that'd be very cool if they had like those
little elements just because I think, particularly with Chaos Space Marines, just having an element
like the Fallen in their roster just makes it very interesting as well.
Because again, it's all Black Legion, really.
And then if you can, you can get the Fallen on the web store.
Yeah, I mean, so technically it's still viable.
Like you can still play, even as the Dark Angels release now, it's still viable to play
Fallen as Chaos.
Although they should make them more Chaos-y.
I would also like to point out that when you're going to type Fallen, the first autofill is
a book about the End Times.
I'm not buying that game's workshop.
Fuck off.
Still still...
Why are they still selling that crap?
Do you remember the exact day you learned about the End Times?
It was actually before I even knew it really, Warhammer, what like, you know, that, you
know, the classic four hour long wiki dive of names you don't understand.
Oh, yeah.
Mine was about the End Times.
So in my head, I was like, damn, this sounds cool as hell.
And then I learned about it properly.
And then you got the context before that.
You're like, oh no, they gave up.
They should have keep going.
As we're talking as well, the Old World has just re-released, so we're going to hopefully
see how that is doing.
So if we might do, I think, if it's Colin's turn to help the podcast, it might be another
fantasy bit of love there for business.
Old World.
Do your part by the Tomb Kings minis, slaughter Ritonian players.
I think DJ Beast, Baltimore started doing videos on the End Times.
I love his videos, but also dot dot dot End Times.
That's valid.
It's upsetting.
It's kind of like the End Times is the, for us as a fan of Warhammer, and he's going to
be the one who's going to be doing the end times.
The End Times is basically the episode.
It's the sequel trilogy for us in terms of Warhammer fandom.
Even in the style, it's like we have to basically deal with it and there's no avoiding End Times
things.
And I hope there's nothing like that in 40K in terms of like, we've just got to shut down
this shiz.
And that can start to be very, very upsetting.
And for those who are listening who have not read Warhammer Fancy End Times, you're not
missing mine.
It's basically, they assassinate everyone's favorite characters and it basically ends.
The end of the setting.
It's the end of the setting, which, luckily in Warhammer, will not happen because the
money's only going to be going up for certain though.
The Fallen will never blow up the setting because if they blow up the Space Marine setting,
they blow up Games Workshop.
So take that to heart.
The Fallen will always be here.
There's also a slightly cool part, which is that the Fallen's armor, as you were saying
at the beginning, their armor and their look goes hard.
It's because it's all very much still under the influence of the Calibanite culture there.
So they have a heavy warrior monk.
The Dark Angel is now a copy of a copy of a copy, whereas the Fallen who are still around,
they're like the OGs.
Like their equipment is still Calibanite forge when Caliban was at its height and things
like that.
It's formed from like ove to the forest.
There's a cool part in one of the Lion's books where it talks about how some of the librarians
of the chapter, they hold pieces of bark or moss or bits like leaves that are from Caliban
as a sort of thing in their room to keep them tied to their sense of self and identity.
Obviously because warped stuff is happening.
Kind of like the, I don't know, that kind of reminds me of how they've got like bits
of like Sanguinus in the Blood Angels fortress monastery.
I mean, they got his corpse.
One of them has his feather in the armor, right?
Is that Dante?
Dante did have Sanguinus's feather.
He gave it to Gabriel Seth for a bit and then Gabriel Seth gave it back.
During the Devastation of Val, it was like, oh, have this.
And they found with the flesh terrors in the presence of the feather, they didn't fall
to the red first or the black rage because the purity of it just like made them chill
out.
They were like, wow, this is amazing.
And originally Dante was like, you can keep this.
And then Gabriel was like, no, I kind of forgive you guys.
This is yours to keep.
I know our chapter master, the first one, Nyssa Ammit made like the housing for it,
but like this is a Blood Angels relic.
As cool as it is, you deserve to keep it.
And we wouldn't take care of it very well.
He did an arc.
That's nice.
Good for him.
It was that he actually had character development, so it's very nice.
I think that with that being said, though, I think unless anyone has anything else they
want to add or something like that, I think again, like next week will be another tier
list one.
I don't think we've decided quite yet before anyone jumps in.
It's probably not epic rap battles of history or pro se.
That's something very important for a game.
May I offer an idea?
Go ahead.
We need to do something Dark Souls related, surely, like boss fights or summons or characters.
We could do one about favorite NPCs and be like, oh, I'm the Crestfallen Knight.
You can't be going around all these undead.
We could just be like, yeah, these guys are cool.
These guys suck.
Crestfallen Knight.
I would gladly do as someone who's unfortunately maybe Dark Souls one is the one I played through
the most, which is kind of sad because the boss battles are better in Bloodborne is a
true answer.
But we should we could definitely do that in.
I really also want to do just straight up.
We should just do one where it's like every single god in the setting and like even fantasy
and 40k every god ranked and then also all the Horrors Heresy books ranked me and me
and you and it will.
I will be present.
He'll be like, I'm just here.
I will.
I will manage the chat.
It will be very useful because you'll know which ones not to read because there are some
definitely not to read.
I'm sure you're recovering from last week's successor chapter one, aren't you, Colin?
Recovering is a strong word.
I'm I'm I'm enduring.
For people who haven't seen it, check out the successors.
That was a pain.
Where we enter like over 200.
So we said a feet tier list when and squig tier list when is not happening.
We're not rating squigs because all three of them are I think that you're saying Tom
Warren.
Hey, you want this bit of our dead dad?
We ain't Imperial Fins.
We're not putting his hand in a cask.
It's still his feather.
It's a part of him.
That's like a hair follicle, though.
That's like, oh, that's still weird.
Yeah, but like an actual like skeletal hand is weird.
There's another relic where I mean, to that the the iron hands have Ferris Manus's head
or his skull.
Oh, yeah, that's also weird.
And also the iron hands made like a weird flesh golem, flesh golem with a bit of his
hands like, yeah, don't trust them with any of it.
One of his arms.
Heaven for them was the one another one from Anthony.
Thank you so much.
Anthony says, please give the lament is the feather.
We need it the most best blood angel successor.
Honestly, you guys can't be trusted with it.
It'll get lost.
Maybe it will just like be like a give them the break and just if they hold it near them,
they don't have bad luck, but they have to be like a really like small proximity.
Yeah, this is this is the people who like they say they get locked out their car.
I did the opposite of that once you got locked in your car.
No, I left.
I left my key in the ignition and just went in a store for like half an hour.
Damn.
I'm surprised I had a car after the fact.
So I didn't just get in and leave.
Wow.
It's a comment from contact kinetic just saying use the feather to tickle Dante's nose.
Okay.
This is maybe smile for some reason, so it's rare as Pepe says, go full Egyptian, make
a relic out of Fulgrum's dog.
We don't have the capacity to scale the dog.
Russian queen Scaly dog.
That's a hell of a thing.
Bad name.
Yeah, I think also Eli will be with us next time.
So that'll be for tier lists.
I think we're hoping to have might not be very soon, but we're planning to have another
guest I think possibly next month if we can manage to arrange it.
Obviously you can't say who yet and your mother, all of your moms, the queen.
She doesn't want to be.
One.
Go ahead.
May I get one final word?
Yes.
Uh, if you are going to purchase anything space Marine, make it the dark angels veteran
company veteran kit because there are very few of that old style.
Like I like, I like, I'm, I'm not Eli.
I like the primaris Marines, but the, you can see like the, with the old ones versus
all the new primaris stuff coming out, there's a certain charm.
I feel they lack those company veterans.
It's the helmet, but it's also like, just like the posing and everything.
Like it's less elegant and refined, but it's got a charm because of that.
And I guarantee those are going to get primarisified sooner or later.
So if you want some vintage stuff, go get yourself those company veterans.
I must say that new batch of dark angels, are they called companions or something like
those ones?
Oh yeah.
Oh, they look, they look cool as hell.
I'm just thinking like, Hey, just fellas, the older models, they're on their way out.
If you couldn't tell from the fact that the entire first born range pretty much got obliterated.
I'm of the opinion that the, the first born helmet is a much more satisfying design than
the, the primaris helmet does look a little bit too new age.
Although to be fair, it is like a modern is a more updated rendition of a Horace heresy
era helmet.
But although I will, the best model I've seen ever is like late last year, there was that
white scars Horace heresy model that was like, Oh, that looks good.
Oh, is that the, it's not the cataphracty one.
I think I think I know which one you're talking about too.
It's one of the normal Marines or isn't it?
But I think that with that, it was like a storm seal.
Oh, I do know what you're talking about now.
White scars do need, they need some love.
Iron hand salamanders.
They all need love.
Do you feel that with salamanders, you can get bits pretty easily from places or not
sponsored so long as you just get stuff and just stick that one.
That looks close enough.
That being salamanders bits and paint them as any other chapter.
I mean, I've got, I have a, I'm trying to make a 2000 point list of salamanders cause
flames go brr, you know, brr.
But that's pretty cool.
And I'm going to have some of their successors in there, which would be very fun because
it's nice not having to paint green every time.
That's fun.
But I think that with that being said, I think that is the fallen.
Thank you guys so much for listening.
I don't think we have decided quite, I mean, it's our, it's our epic rat battles.
Like in terms of like, it doesn't, it keeps getting pushed back.
We're trying to talk about Necron Lords or, you know, some, some ones that have been spicy
removed from.
We've got a lot of stuff on the bench.
We've got Necron Lords.
We've got to get back to the great crusades.
We've got to be doing versus again.
We've got to do pub quiz.
But we'll figure it out.
Just, it's a new year.
Give us a minute to figure out our schedule.
We're trying to get some, uh, guests on again, returning ones as well.
And I think that being said though, that was the, uh, the fallen, the kind of the ones
the lion was a bit embarrassed about initially and the darkings were embarrassed about, but
now it's not so embarrassing because you know, he's embraced it.
It's you know, fallen is his pronoun and he's, he's slaying queen.
Uh, I don't even know what that any of that means.
They've, they've gone from I've fallen and I can't get up to the Riz.
And I told you we needed more glitter.
Um, thank you guys so much for listening and watching though.
Uh, that's been law crimes.
Um, Oh, we should mention, we are, we are on Spotify as well.
I should mention that we should mention that at the beginning.
We are on Spotify as you are, you are like listening to us like offline.
Um, we've got some of our audio things in there and then it's just us rambling like
this stuff.
And obviously we should be on, we're on YouTube, Spotify, Amazon, audible and Amazon music.
We're, we're on a bunch of platforms.
And if you're falling asleep to this currently though, you know, sweet dreams, princes and
princesses.
Just remember sweet dreams are made of you.
Yes.
Who am I to disagree?
We'll get copyright.
We can't do that.
Don't watch the X man.
Yeah.
All right.
See you later guys.
Thank you.
Take care everyone.
Take care.
Bye.
You guys not here.
So we'll say that love you all.
Primaris is good.
We love you all.
Bye.