You know what they do when they're bored? Talk to their horse. They have no friends, talk to their horse.
Pretend, pretend, country. It's not a country, it's a feast up.
I fought in your general direction.
Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries.
Now go away or I shall taunt you for a second time.
Hello everyone and welcome to the next episode of Versus.
Just a brief little introduction. This is a little video series where we will pit two factions or characters against each other.
And essentially both sides will have to argue the merits and also incredibly vitriolic at the end when we get to diss each other.
This week we have Colin and Eli. Colin over here will be representing Empire.
Colin, how are you feeling so far?
I am channeling Victor Saltspire. I am more than assured in my victory over the dumb, stupid, idiot horse people.
The vitriol is already starting. I see.
Already, I'd say that for the minute of hate at the end.
This counts as the Abbotonia beginner to expert.
An entree, shall we say. An entree of hatred towards the French. Sorry for already going there.
Eli will be representing Bretonnia. Eli, how are you feeling?
I'm feeling good. I'm sure our glorious and beautiful nation will prevail.
And the Code of Chivalry demand I do not speak ill of my honorable combatant.
So I shan't say anything in that matter.
He's risen above it. He's all above it.
See if he can rise above a doomstack of Hellstorm rockets.
Well hopefully he won't have to rise above it at the end when he gets to unleash his hatred.
But that being said though, we will begin the first round with Colin.
Colin, are you ready?
Aye aye, Captain.
Aye aye, Captain. Your five minutes begins now.
So let me just say, the Empire of Man, for its proper name, is quite the empire.
It's been around for 2700 years. The calendar in the Warhammer settings is the Empire of Man's calendar.
Just to already show you right out the gate.
The whole setting does revolve around them. Rightfully so, might I add.
Because they are the greatest nation of man on the entire Warhammer world of Warhammer fantasy.
They have the best science in all of the world.
And you might say that's the dwarfs. Well the dwarfs, if it's not a blueprint for 50 million years, just doesn't count.
So I'm willing to put that in the Empire's corner.
While perhaps the elves beat them in magic, the Empire's job is not to be the best in any one role.
Because you see, they know their strengths and weaknesses.
They know that sure and mayly a Chaos Warrior might win, but the Chaos Warrior doesn't have 50 cannons and a tank behind them.
Whereas the Empire does. And that is the true glory of the Empire as a faction Warhammer.
Many people think you gotta be the best at something to win.
You need to be good enough, and the Empire is more than good enough in whatever it puts its mind to.
In its thousands of years of history, it has fought literally everything the Warhammer world has to offer.
Befitting them as the inspiration for the Imperium of Man, meaning they're the ones who are going out and doing a pretty good grunt load of the fighting.
And them, when a push comes to shove and it's time to save the world, it is the Empire who steps up and handles everything.
At least in modern Warhammer.
You know, Chaos Invasion? You better believe the Empire's on the front lines.
Norscans, which are Chaos but slightly different because they're more raiders than anything.
It's the Empire dealing with the brunt of them and they deal with it handily.
Wood Elves, because Durthu has decided that the Grey Mountains belong to him and Gnuln because his AI in Total War is bloodthirsty.
Well, that's the Empire's problem again and they make sure that damn tree man goes back to his forest.
Bretonia? Well, you know, less said about that.
I know there was a certain battle where a Bretonian Grail Knight decided an honorable duel was the best way to win.
And you know, I will give what little credit is deserved. He did win the duel.
And then got blown apart by cannons because the Empire General took the time to set up artillery.
While the Bretonians were busy, I don't know, thumb up their buttholes and just watching their leader do a duel.
And forgot that this is a military campaign. So that was a resounding Imperial victory.
The Skaven, shout out to my man, Mandred Skaven Slayer, got rid of all those damn rats.
I mean, it could just go on and on listing amazing empires, emperors, pardon me, Magnus the Pious.
The second, I'll go second greatest emperor, Sigmar.
Sigmar thinks third. He got the whole thing going, but Magnus the Pious was, you know, he was a real, he was a G.
He knows the value of cooperation, something not many war hammer factions quite manage to grasp, especially in 40K.
But Magnus the Pious, he got the dwarves involved.
He got the elves involved to set up the colleges of magic and made sure that the Empire could truly blossom.
They have the colleges of magic, so they have safeguards and ways to train wizards so they know to explode.
They have the engineering colleges and Gnome, so they have science at the forefront of it that mostly does not end in the engineers exploding with test fired, misfiring cannons.
It's all very reliable, good stuff. The Empire is something for everyone from the most farty forester in the forces of Ostlend
to those who want a more cosmopolitan approach in Altdorf. That's a big word I stumbled.
And of course, this goes nothing without saying, mentioning the Big K himself, Carl Franz, prince and emperor, ruler of Altdorf,
wielder of the Rikeland Runefang, if I keep giving all of his titles I'm going to lose all of my debating time.
He's the greatest statesman in the old world, the best emperor of the Empire of Man, the best emperor in all of Warhammer.
Because he's not stuck on a chair. He's got his god hammer, he's got a cool mount, and he gets out and gets stuff done.
He knows how to talk you out of an argument, and if a push comes to shove, he's going to cave your face in with Galmaraz.
And truly, the Empire is just the best. It is simply the better faction in this debate and Warhammer fantasy.
Whatever you want, whatever historical inspiration you need, whatever you could possibly want in a faction, the Empire provides for you.
And with that, with faith, steel and gunpowder, I end the first round of my argument.
God perfect timing. Christ. Wow, bang on the dot for five minutes.
Well it's a strong, I'd say quite information heavy start, but I think Eli has got his rebuttal coming up.
Eli, are you ready?
Yes sir.
Your five minute time limit begins now.
Thank you. I was originally going to watch the response to Pancreas No Work video and just copy that guy's argument for fun,
but I decided not to, so I won't troll that hard.
Anyways.
It was a good video.
Here in the great and beautiful land of Bretonnia, we all strive for the betterment of our nation.
Our land is beautiful, filled with golden fields, mystical forests, and the fresh sea.
The king rules with a just and strong hand, while his noble knights watch over our fields and protect the weaker folk.
Heroes trod these lands, defending the realm far and wide from all the evils that beset it.
The great lady blesses her knights, giving them superhuman abilities as they undergo glorious quests of chivalry.
We work together as a unified people to defend the weak and uphold justice.
When the time calls, all fellows will band together and take up arms to fight against evil and take victory in the darkest hours.
The knights of Bretonnia are unlike any others in the old world and the new.
No mortal man may come close to their incredible ability, and the tale is even greater for the incredible lords and ladies.
The codes of chivalry are among our most sacred traditions.
These codes are law and demand that justice be upheld and that the strong defend and care for the weak.
Yes, there are lesser men who neglect these codes and treat their people poorly.
And such a thing is inexcusable, yet all nations contain corruption and evil.
Instead, let us look to the good, for Bretonnia is truly a land of honor, glory, and nobility.
Paladins walk the lands, searching out monsters, foes, and injustices wherever they go.
Some may simply stay upon their duke or duchess' land and protect their borders from abominations.
Grail knights have taken up incredible quests and done unbelievable things to gain the favor of the lady.
At her lake, they sip from her cup and are granted supernatural power, taking them far above any mortal.
Some knights ride atop the beautiful Pegasus, soaring into battle and decimating the forces of terror.
Some have even gained access by the wood elves into their glades, for that is how pure they have become.
I may speak of one knight who traveled through time itself to slay a great green dragon and save his wife.
While Bretonnia is beset on all sides, such as many of the forces of good are, they do not waver.
The brave knights lead from the front, rallying their people from peasants to lord,
all partaking the defense of Bretonnia no matter how large or small.
The Lady of the Lake is worshipped throughout the land. She is the goddess of purity,
nobility, and courage. She is a just being and withholds grace to those deemed evil,
therefore only giving her blessing to the pure of heart.
She chose Bretonnia as she saw them to be the only ones worthy amongst all of humanity to serve her cause.
And do not be mistaken, for she is as much a god as Sigmar and the other deities of the world.
I'll bank my time for part two.
Oh, that's pretty, I'd say that's quite an impassioned opening speech there.
Quite eloquent, I have to say, Eli.
I do have two questions for both of you beautiful boys, and I'd like Colin to ask it first.
It's a little bit of an easier slam dunk one.
They aren't, mate.
But I hope it's, it's just this one to get people cooking.
Obviously, we all know chaos is an enormous problem for all the,
no matter what genre or setting you're in, it's pretty much the end all.
So I'd like to ask, how would your faction best deal with chaos, Colin?
Well, of course, it depends on the scale of the incursion.
You know, for the big old battles that we as Warhammer fans and YouTubers
love to read about and talk about, the Empire's military will never be found wanting.
They will set out with the aid of their allies, the elves, the dwarves,
and of course, glorious Kislev, and ensure that however far chaos gets,
it will not achieve victory and they will be driven back into the wastes.
For smaller stuff, the Empire, of course, has the witch hunters.
They prowl the cities and, pardon me, the different little elector states of the Empire,
and make sure that wherever heresy may lie, it will be rooted out with efficiency.
And you better believe they do a good job of it, because witch hunters are,
well, they're trained to be the best.
And if you ever played Vermintide, they're damn good in a fight too.
Shout out to Victor Saltspire.
And as a bonus, they usually don't kill entire towns in the way that planets in 40k tend to get
exterminated. They will find the root of the problem, they will drive it out,
and then they move on to the next.
So the Empire has quite robust systems in place to make sure chaos can't get a foot in the door.
If it does, they do get in the door, they shut the door on the damn thing's face and problem solved.
They stop the tour of chaos repeatedly, we could say.
It's quite efficient.
I'm surprised that video, there's a terrible reference, but there's a video where someone says
your brain stops you from stubbing your toe, and in the background this guy just
stubs his toe repeatedly just to prove it.
There's no relevance to this argument.
I can't see that.
It's the loudest bit.
It's the loudest bit. Sorry, boy.
I've challenged the same question to Eli about stone tubbing.
How would Brutonia best deal with chaos?
For an invasion, we would rally the people and band together and defeat the hordes of
chaos with our glorious lords and ladies charging from the front.
We've had single men defeat greater demons, because that's just how epic the space marine
grail knights truly are. We have space marines on horses, don't forget it.
As for internal conflicts, we have pious people.
They don't gotta worry about chaos because they believe in the lady.
Good answer, good answer.
And I have one last one for you both.
Colin first.
I'm a big fan of this one particularly, because I believe, even though it's not a tangible
argument, I think it's still important.
Explain your faction's best drip.
What's the best look?
Why has your faction got the better look?
That's quite the difficult question, because the Empire has all sorts of drip.
There's of course, I am as always quite partial to Karl Franz's drip.
He's got the wonderful plate armor, he's got the sash, he's got the helmet with the
red, white and blue plumes on it, he's got the little golden griffin on top of the helmet,
the hammer, but there's more than that.
There's Boris Toddbringer and his funny little castle he's got in his helmet.
Shout out to my man Boris.
There's the great swords who go into battle, the zwayhanders and all of the puffy clothings
and puffy hats those entail, which are just great.
Even the knightly orders may I add as well, I almost forgot about that.
Oh of course, they, I think Bretonnia thinks they have the monopoly down on knights?
Well, they don't, they don't.
The Empire has knights too.
The Reichsguard especially, quite dripped out as they should be for the bodyguards of
the Emperor.
And of course, this is something that I think will be hard to match, Felix Jäger is from
the Empire and that man is fashionable.
That is a fashionable man, he knows how to adventure in style.
So I think the Empire's got drip at every level.
I'm partial to a cheeky demi-griff with a halberd in total, I'm gonna lie, the way they
run.
Damn got me jealous.
Eli, I'm not that jealous I can run the same way.
Eli, I pass this to you, why has Bretonnia got the best drip?
I think we all know undeniably, Bretonnia has insane drip.
Every single one of their knights looks so freaking cool.
We have Pegasus knights, the beautiful pure horses with the dripped out dudes on top,
the fey enchantress is just Caladriel, the most beautiful woman in the land, King Louis
has his fancy crown, have you seen Albrecht, I don't remember his last name, the old deborder
Lou?
That guy's dripping carnate covered in gold.
Bro, come on, you know those old Lego sets with the knights in them?
They're kinda like, yeah, you can't tell me those weren't the coolest things ever when
you were a kid.
And Bretonnia's just that with Warham.
I will say, and I'm partially saying it because I did say it in my video and so I won't bring
it up, I did admit Bretonnia does have drip, knights look cool.
It's a tough one to argue against, especially I imagine quite a lot of us are total war
medieval 2 players as well, so that's pretty much our childhood screaming at us right now.
There is a undi- oh, sorry.
If we look at the new models coming out for old world, I see some Bretonnia in there,
they're pretty drippy.
Isn't there a guy standing on someone's head in a mod?
Paladin probably?
Yeah, the knight paladin with the little antlers on his head.
When you add antlers to a design, it's automatically just way cooler.
I don't know what it is, it just makes it feel more connected to nature, but in a way
that nature is going to kick your ass.
As a side question, does the Empire have any answer for the green knight in terms of drip?
Ooh, that is quite the good question.
I have to say, both their founders, the green knight- spoiler alert!
Giles Le Breton, the founder- I'm not going to say it like that.
The hate starts again.
Giles Le Breton is the founder, and I think it's only fair to compare him to Sigmar.
I would say, I'm personally a bigger fan of Sigmar's drip, the raging barbarian chieftain
look, where he's got the furs, occasionally he's just shirtless like Conan the Barbarian.
Sometimes he's got the fur armor and the pelt, and always wielding Galmaraz, because I know
it's a whip, but it is part of Sigmar's gear, I would say it counts as the drip.
That's a pretty good answer.
So, I'd say the answer to that is the Empire's own founder, Sigmar.
Well, I'm not going to lie, there's been some good points on both of those questions to be fair.
It's definitely made it very even-steven, Steven if you know what I mean.
It's quite tough.
With that being said though, I think we have to move on into the next section.
Are you guys both ready?
I am.
Colin, you're up first.
Are you ready for your next three minutes of...
Maybe there's some hate, we'll have to see.
We'll have to see if it gets going.
Your time begins now.
Alright, well I think now's the time to do some, you know, a little bit of undercutting, I'll be honest.
So Eli brought up, you know, the Lady, the goddess of Bretonnia, and I know I...
I can't help but wonder, what's the Lady's real name, Eli?
Do you happen to have an answer for me?
I think it starts with an L.
Liliath, the high elven god of magic.
Quite curious that the Bretonians seem to not make that connection, that their chief god has pointy ears.
Not that I'm against, you know, worshipping the elves, I'm the last person to be against that.
But they do it in a way that's quite cocked, if I may say so myself.
Whereas the Empire has not just one mighty god.
Sigmar of course is the main god, and he is just Sigmar, the man-turned-god.
So no divine cuckoldry going on here, he is the Empire's god.
But it's not just him, they have plenty of other mighty deities.
There's of course Ulric, the Winter Wolf.
He's very cool, and Sigmar's own personal god, so...
The Empire has so many powerful gods that their chief god worships a god.
Quite nice.
All of whom are gods of man, not elf gods masquerading to trick an entire country into being their puppet state.
Where... and there's plenty more than that.
There's... wow, I completely blanked out, alright, maybe there's not plenty more than that.
Tal, the god of the hunt, sort of an equivalent to Kernos, although he is an equivalent, not Kernos in a funny hat.
And the Empire just has everything it needs within itself.
It has all of the weaponry, all of the science, all of the magic it needs to properly win.
And another thing about their gods is, quite interestingly, they give the power to whoever needs it.
You don't need to go on this stupid massive quest to feed your... to drink the holy bath water.
Sigmar sees you're in trouble, and he empowers you to win the day.
He's done that to a vampire of all people who proved she wasn't a Manfred von Karstein vampire.
Genevieve, to very long name, not saying all of that.
And of course to say nothing of Ulric having werewolves.
I don't see any werewolves in Bretonnia, and werewolves are awesome.
Another fun point, the Empire fights vampires much more effectively than Bretonnia does.
Last I checked, Mosin Lone is always just a little cancer there.
Whereas Sylvania has multiple times been brought under Imperial control, until Manfred ruins everything because he's Manfred.
And just one last point, the treatment of citizens.
You may say Bretonnia is simply everyone, almost everyone is good.
The Empire has problems, but it works to fix those problems.
Unlike Bretonnia, who just ignores them and says there is no problems, peasants shouldn't be allowed to eat.
The Empire fixes where it goes wrong.
Unfortunately, the peasant hate hasn't...
Well, it wasn't.
But, uh, the peasant, we couldn't quite get into the peasant.
But speaking of possibly talking about peasants, Eli, are you ready?
Love me peasants.
Yes, sir.
Are you ready? And your time begins now.
Alright, let us speak of our heroes, for Bretonnia after all is a land of heroes.
The Fae Enchantress speaks for the Lady of the Lake, giving her power and influence over all the land.
She is an incredible magic user who will always defend her followers and show mercy to all kindred.
The Enchantress is followed by Grail Damsels, similar to that of Grail Knights but wielding magic instead of blade, and they're all ladies.
King Louis de Encore is our warrior king, who is honest and noble.
He will not allow the laws to warp justice, and he rides atop his grand hippogriff at the front of the battle.
Our Brut de Borrelo is an undefeated lord who only allows those knights with utmost courage and honor to reside within his court.
Rapace de L'Aignes is our very own Jean D'Arc.
From peasant to duchess, she became the crusading light of our lands.
She is truly a champion of the people, as she has started from the most humble of beginnings, showing us that it is not impossible to gain glory in even the lowest station of our Bretonnia.
The most legendary and mythical of them all, who was spoiled a little bit earlier today, is that of the Green Knight.
He was once childsly Breton, first king and founder of Bretonnia.
He appears when needed most, and is the sacred protector of Bretonnia, outparading out of thin air to smite his foes.
He is unstoppable and undeniable upon the battlefield, as his ghostly steed charges through the most horrific of foes.
He has slaughtered thousands of beastmen, so much so that they have given him the name Soulkiller, and tremble at even the mention of the warrior.
These are but a few heroes of the land, not to mention the superhuman Grey Knights and Paladins who have been granted incredible power from the lady herself.
Also, the Red Duke is cool, so it's okay that Muzalan is still there, cause he has plot armor.
And they can't kill a main character. Even though he's not on a legendary load in Total War. For some reason.
See, they really made Yombo before they made the Red Duke.
Rightfully so. You want those to be cool?
He is cool, I did a video on him.
Actually, no, I don't- the beastmen lady- I'm done with my argument by the way.
Time stops there.
The beastmen lady I had never even heard of until-
Oh mother of Stankia?
Yeah. They made her before the Red Duke.
Yeah bro! They made her up!
They made one up before doing the actual characters!
They made all of Cathay up before doing the Red Duke.
Oh my gosh, I forgot about that.
Ah, Total War pains.
Speaking of pains, I'd like to ask you guys just two quick questions here.
A little bit more- I'm a little bit more unfair on some of these ones, but again, a little bit easier one to start with.
Colin, how would your faction best deal with the other?
With the other?
With Eli's.
Oh, so like Br- ah.
Well, I think I gave an exact situation where the Empire handily dealt with Bretonia.
The Empire, being a military- having a proper military, not LARPers on horseback-
challenged the Bretonian Greylight in charge to a duel.
And like I said, fair's fair, Bretonian Greylight in melee are rather strong.
And despite the Imperial General- it was either Ludwig Schwarzhelm or-
I'm forgetting- it was a name character and I'm quite ashamed of myself for forgetting his name off the top of my head.
But despite being a damn good swordsman or melee fighter himself, he ultimately lost the battle, the duel.
And the Bretonian, I should say, commented that he was a damn good fighter and he was ashamed to see him killed.
Whereas the Empire General just kind of was like, very funny sir, allow me to retort.
And then cannons that were maneuvered into position blew the Bretonian army away, including the head off of the Bretonian Greylight.
And that's one of the ways the Empire would win.
They'd fight as a military, not as a medieval war reenactment society with Renaissance-fair honorable duels.
They actually played a win.
And aside from situations like that where maybe they have the rare Bretonian who isn't huffing his own farts as in charge and knows he has to win.
Rockets, cannons, guns, halberds, Bretonian is all about horses.
Well, the Empire's halberdiers, which are both in-game and by the fact of being long pointy sticks, anti-cavalry.
Cannons and rockets, quite good at dealing with people on horseback.
To say nothing of the wizardry the Empire possesses.
Bretonians may have its own wizards, the damsels, but the Empire has a much more versatile kit to work with.
Being able to wield every single of the main lures of magic against the Bretonians.
Wow, that's hard to do. I don't like that. That's hard to do.
Come again. Eli, how would you best deal with the Empire?
Well, firstly, we would likely not invade the Empire because that would be quite rude to do to another human civilization.
But if we did, we would succeed through chivalry and honor, unlike these dogs shooting bullets at us.
I'm sure our superior maneuvering upon horseback would be able to get around those, as you know it does in Total War.
Because you can win in Total War with just horses against guys with guns, because it's Warhammer.
And perhaps we could even get help from the Wood Elves, because they probably hate the Imperium a whole lot more.
The Empire are like we're this. But through sheer faith, courage, and honor, I'm sure we can make it happen.
This man thinks faith in horses can match faith in glorious Sigmar.
And we probably got more peasants than they have bullets anyways.
I mean, coming in with a slam dunk slightly in there.
Slight side question for Colin. How do you answer a Grail Knight charge?
Put halberdiers in the front, handgunners in a raised position behind them, and that should be enough to weaken them.
But still not live.
What?
But still not live, probably.
What, the halberdiers?
No, I'm just saying, unfortunately Grail Knights seem to have a little bit of main character syndrome.
And they seem to be able to do ridiculous things.
Well in that case, the thing about Grail Knights is there's not very many of them.
So while the Grail Knights are tied up in a single unit of halberdiers and handgunners, the rest of the army gets obliterated by artillery, magic, and spears.
You can say, you know, maybe the Grail Knights will win that engagement.
A battle is not one engagement. The Empire will win everywhere the Grail Knights aren't.
And then I don't care how damn strong the Grail Knights are, when the entire Imperial arsenal is turned onto them, they're going to fall sooner or later.
Fair enough. I do have one more question for this round.
This one's a little bit mean, I won't lie.
Colin first, justify your End Times Law.
Oh, bro.
Oh, that is unfair to both of them.
I don't know my End Times Law very well, I'm not going to lie.
As a brief foreword to it, we'll explain a little bit of the End Times Law, which is that the Empire, at some stage, there was a Skaven invasion
that rocked the Empire, I think, and Bretonnia somewhat.
There was a Skaven invasion everywhere, there wasn't all the one.
Pretty much everywhere. And the Empire, at many points, did seem to hold against the Chaos Tide.
Unfortunately, they did lose parts in Kislev and their northern border, then possibly down to bits in Sylvania too.
But then eventually, there was even a Siege of Altdorf, they even got that far in, and eventually all had to be sent to Middenheim,
where the end crimes then entered the setting.
Colin, how can you justify the complete destruction of the Empire and its failure at multiple points by certain members of the faction,
such as Balthasar Gelb and others, to possibly fail the Empire?
Well, I will justify it, and I'll even justify it for Bretonnia as well, as GW demanded the setting was ending,
and by God, no one involved inside of the setting was going to stop that.
See the Storm of Chaos campaign, where they tried to do that, except it was all based off battle reports and Chaos kept getting wiped.
But in the universe, I will justify it by saying that the Empire did more than, arguably, anyone else, and more effectively than anyone else.
Even the Elves, who were a bit too busy having the wrong Phoenix King crowned, and too busy fighting amongst themselves, the Empire went to work.
The Witch Hunters did their thing, they made an alliance with the Undead, which, not an easy or good alliance,
but as we all know, Chaos is the ultimate threat. So it was more of a, we won't stab you right now, let's go kill that Chaos Warrior, and it was good.
You mentioned Balthasar Gell, he did do a little bit of an oopsie with the Changeling and try and kill Karl Franz, a little bit of a goof,
but I would remind you before that, that he walled off the entire nation of the Empire from Chaos with the Auric Abastion.
He simply said, you're not getting in, and then a several thousand feet high wall from Attack on Titan was in the way of the Chaos Warriors.
It was so high that it was peaking above the clouds.
I'd like to slightly pass over to Eli here, which as a brief thing for people listening, actually a very slightly brief part here as well,
if you guys are listening and you'd like to hear one more fancy stuff, definitely comment down some more one more fancy verses,
because we want the excuse to talk about it, we do love it.
For real?
For real, and please do comment that.
But for a slight bit on Eli's part, obviously Bretonnia had a slight scavengy slash chaos slash other uprising.
They did obviously Guilde Breton, the Green Knight did re-emerge.
I believe that Lyon, Lyonqeer did participate in the siege of Altdorf, did get crunked, unfortunately.
And the, what's the name of the vampire?
The one who's in who teamed up with the Bretonians, sorry, in Bretonnia at the end of the.
Oh my God, he's one of you fought with Neferata and he's like in charge of the dragons.
The red trinkets.
What?
Oh, the red duke you mean?
No, do you know who I'm talking about Colin?
The Alcadazar?
Are we talking about the vampire who's like the progenitor of blood dragons?
Yes, that's the one.
Oh, Abbarash.
Abbarash, that's it.
Abbarash I believe did team up with the Green Knight Guilde Breton.
He did.
That's cool.
So it's a little bit.
I wish that wasn't off screen.
Eli, how would you defend possibly the complete essentially fall of Bretonnia and then essentially a last bastion being of essentially the grail knights and vampires?
Is there any way you could possibly get around?
Do you think it's better than the Empire version?
I mean, that sounds pretty cool.
I'm not going to lie.
Don't you think?
Green Knight and first blood knight ever fighting off the forces of evil.
I'm pretty sure Lili Leonkirk killed the main Nergal guy, didn't he?
Nope.
They both die.
I don't know my end times.
Leonkirk got Festus killed, I believe.
It was Sigmar himself who killed the Glotlings.
Yeah, I don't know my end times lore, but I sure sounds cool with the last bastions of grail knights and the Green Knight himself.
I just fight by saying it was GW's fault.
I mean, to be fair, that's a good answer for both people there.
And I don't want to talk about what happened after that.
I'm not a real champion of the end times, etc. anyway.
We're not talking about Age of Sigmar.
There will be no mention of Age of Sigmar in this house.
Because there's no Protonior Empire in Age of Sigmar.
But with that being said, I did want to bring up end times because unfortunately I like to make people suffer.
Thank you.
But with that being said though, we move on to the last section.
We call it minute of hate, but it can be minute of proclaiming your faction to be the best if you want.
This is an opportunity for you guys if you want to say something positive or maybe extremely negative about the others.
Colin, are you ready?
Yes.
Time begins now.
Oh man.
Fucking stupid worthless Protonians.
Fuck it, everything is horses.
You know what they do when they're bored?
Talk to their horse.
They have no friends, talk to the horse.
You know how they do everything in their country?
Talk to the damn horse.
Oh, you haven't had sex in a while?
Go proposition yourself to the fucking horse.
That's all they know how to do.
It's the horse.
Uh, you know, horse.
I would just like say no Age of Sigmar.
I'm bringing Age of Sigmar into this.
Empire has models in Age of Sigmar.
Protonia has nothing.
They were so stupid they got squatted from the entire damn setting in every way.
Oh, and by the way, speaking of models, Total War had to invent many of the units wholesale because they were so left behind in Warhammer fantasy.
They didn't have any models.
They were an all cavalry army that the Empire was able to statistically beat in cavalry in 8th edition.
Because that's how little anyone cares about Bretonia.
Those stupid lam...
Not lam...
Dumb, stupid, cucked entire country.
Or ten countries.
It's not a country. It's a feast.
The Empire of Man may be based off the HRE, but it's ten times as good of things.
That's all.
Oh, gosh.
Okay.
That's been building for a while.
It's good for me.
Eli, are you ready for your rebuttal?
Yes, sir.
Your time begins now.
I only have a few words to say, but before that I will say, even though we're not in Age of Simmar, I do believe we're the models being updated for Old World right now and the Imperium's not.
But on to my main...
Uh...
Rose for you.
I blow my nose at you so-called Franz King, you and all your silly Imperial kniggets.
I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty-headed animal food trough wiper.
I fought in your general direction.
Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries.
Now go away or I shall taunt you for a second time.
What is a knigget?
What do you say today, Monty Python?
Okay.
I assume that's your time.
Is there anything else you'd like to say in your last ten minutes?
Uh, no, that was it.
Oh, okay.
Well, I was not expecting that.
Um, that, uh, that threw me off kilter.
I'm not gonna lie.
Um, I do have some questions.
Good niggas.
Is the Frenchman from Monty Python?
I know.
It is, but, uh, we are specifying it's not naughty word YouTube doesn't want us to say.
Oh, is it?
We're just making sure that's very clear for people listening to the audio.
Uh, I do have a question for each of you.
I'd like you guys to answer.
I'll actually go in reverse.
I got Eli first here.
Um, Eli, how do you justify the blatant caricature of your faction?
The kind of real laziness to their overall look and inspiration?
Uh, they still look cool.
They don't need to be...
They clearly didn't have to work very hard to make them look cool.
So, I mean, if it ain't broke, why fix it?
And come on, France in the medieval times is pretty baller.
Oh, that's a better defense.
I thought it was a real low hanging fruit one I've given you there.
So it's not a bad defense there.
Uh, I do have one here for Colin.
Um, how do you justify as your faction...
I'm sorry.
How do you justify your faction birthing essentially the ever chosen and eventually leading to the end times?
Uh, I don't know.
With your main man, Archeon, essentially being born and part of the Empire
and growing up in the Empire and then betraying the Empire.
How do you justify the Emperor creating nine kids who all tried to kill him and empower chaos more than ever had been before?
You consider that a fault of the Imperium and the Empire
to not be able to account for every single human being?
By the way, I might also add that the father of Archeon was Bellacor.
And even with that, Archeon was a noble knight for quite some time, many decades.
He was one of the most zealous of Sigmar's followers.
The Empire itself did very little wrong regarding Archeon's fall.
It was only when chaos started taking note of him that they decided to act and try and get rid of a future ever chosen.
So perhaps you can say, you know, blame the gods in some way for it for leaving Archeon in silence.
But the Empire itself did, I would say, nothing wrong in regards to allowing Archeon to exist.
The worst thing you can say the Empire didn't do is they didn't kill a baby.
It's like, oh man, what a crime.
You didn't kill that infant because he was born near-ish Norsca.
This is like the Thanos thing, isn't it?
Where it's like, do we go back in time and they make the hand signals like, you know, do we do it?
I'd say it's like they only acted against him after the swords of chaos started taking an interest in him and trying to recruit him to become the ever chosen.
Before that, the Empire didn't give him any push towards chaos, and Archeon was more than happy with that.
When he was Diedrich Kastner, he was a noble knight of Sigmar until he wasn't.
I guess a slight add on to that question, which is you did say earlier that the gods of the Empire, the great thing about them is that they give power when it's needed.
And when poor old Diedrich Kastner begged Sigmar to answer him in his moment of need, where was Sigmar?
I think I can actually give a pretty good answer to that.
Sigmar was trapped by Zech in the magical vortex of Ulthuan to prevent him from interfering with the Chaos Gods' plans any further.
And with that in mind, I would say that it's no small stretch of the imagination to say that in this specific case, with especially Zech of all people probably knowing what Archeon was going to be in the future,
that Zech was specifically interfering with Sigmar's ability to speak to Archeon or grant him any sort of boon as a sign of,
Hey, no, I'm here for you. Don't do what you're about to do.
As, again, Sigmar is stuck in a magical tornado specifically existing to drain magic from the world.
I don't think it's a slight against him to say that.
A little bit hard to get a message out when you're doing that and the Chaos Gods themselves are probably actively interfering with you, yourself interfering with the world ending.
It wasn't like...
Okay, so?
It wasn't like Sigmar was in the best of positions during, while for quite a bit of his godhood, actually.
I'd say that's a pretty decent response.
Having listened to both arguments here, is there any last point you guys want to make before I make my verdict?
Perhaps a last hurrah? Or are you guys ready to let me kind of go through my current thoughts?
If you side with Ertona, you have sex with horses and I hope you get hell-storked.
I think the Emperor... the Empire is pretty cool.
I mean, he's kind of hit us with some kindness there. That's kind of... it's a last-minute guilt trip, which is actually pretty effective.
I will say, though...
The cult spire does not approve.
He does not. He's looking at me with his one good eye.
Just going through the sections, I think...
Section one, I think Colin talked about the overall faction itself, its great achievements, its strides, its culture, its general power itself.
You know, the might of a professional army, as he said.
I think Eli spoke of it almost in a way in which Bretonnia would speak of themselves in a very romantic language.
They speak of their heroes, they speak of their actual... the core beliefs of Bretonnia, which is, you know...
When you ask yourself, what does the Empire believe in?
It's maybe not as clear as much as Bretonnia have ideals such as honor, duty, and overall service.
There were some good parts about how to deal with chaos.
I think, slightly, Eli's got a little bit of an advantage on the drip side of things, just because, as I did say earlier, some of us grew up with medieval too.
And in general, when we look to learn about history, I think a lot of us have drawn to, particularly, medieval history.
I did admit that Bretonnia has drip.
It does have drip.
And on the next sections, again, I think Colin made some good points about specifically the heroes and the gods.
As much as Bretonnia has the lady, does make a point that it's technically used as a overall lie.
The lady is an elven godess, Lilith, and it's Bretonnia, as much as there is honor and duty within the service of the Grail Knights, they are essentially serving a lie, in a way.
You're still a nice lady.
I'm still a nice lady, technically.
She's a very nice lady. She's just cocking them.
Very much so.
The Empire does have some... it has their own pantheon.
I can't remember the name of the god of the dead, that one.
More?
More. A bit more.
They've got some... a bit more flavor to them, shall we say, in that regard.
Obviously, there's like the entire winds of magic, particularly in Total War, generally used by the Empire, so a bit of flavor there.
And obviously, you know, our beloved, Karl Franz, Prince of Reikland, Emperor, all the titles, as we said.
As much as he is the gigachad of all emperors, so it's hard to kind of argue with that.
Although, Eli does have some good points, like the Green Knight.
There isn't really a kind of response to a Green Knight in the Empire, as much as that would be cool.
The Green Knight is kind of a unique thing. It's literally like myth, living myth, you know, a theory or unit.
So that's kind of cool.
End times, I guess we could both say that cancels each other out.
Although, I'm also saying, Bretonnia does... it gets off... it's not like Bretonnia is better, it just gets off better.
Like, it has suffered less.
They could kill Watch Green.
Yeah, not in Age of Sigmar, they don't. Oh my gosh.
Yeah, they exist in Age of Sigmar. They're the flesh eater courts. Woo.
But I would say being on screen during the end times is much worse.
You know what? That's a fair argument to make.
That's kind of a bit more... that's a bit worse.
As the last section, Eli was a little bit kinder. I think there's not...
Connor's right, there's a bit of... it's a bit easier to hate Bretonnia.
The horse fuckers part was funny, particularly.
Eli, I think also just... I think Eli being a little bit kinder about it, because again, the Empire is maybe not...
Maybe it speaks volumes that you can... there's not as much to hate about the Empire because it's maybe not as...
I'd say there's not as much flavour to it, in a way.
It's almost like white bread, you can almost argue.
You can't really hate something that doesn't really make you feel that much love either.
It could be seen from that angle.
I will say though, again, Colin did a good defence of the ever-chosen part.
I think technically it's not really the Empire's fault, as in there's obviously something that went to play that was larger within it.
But the real answer for that is the writers were going to make it happen no matter what.
Which is the truth for most of the artists.
I think Eli did... I mean, there's a good saving answer.
Essentially, Bretonia is caricature, it's pretty much a low-hanging fruit of a faction style.
But it works. It does work. It does exactly what it says in the tin.
Coming to a conclusion though, this is pretty difficult this one, because in a way they both have so much...
The Empire's got so many more wins, but Bretonia wins are just so much...
The very few wins they have are just a little bit stronger, if you know what I mean. They just excel in their very specific area.
And... I mean, I'll go like Eli, the guilt trip at the end, saying the Empire's cool.
You know what I mean? You feel guilty.
Unbelievable.
With all that hate he mixed in a bit of kindness, which is quite like awe.
I think... I'm actually quite stuck on this one.
I will have to go with...
Oh, it's the coin flip.
I mean, I have to go with Empire, I think, in the end, just because I think on paper...
Patch.
As much as I think Eli possibly had some great points, and it may have swayed my heart a bit more,
on paper, I think the Empire is slightly better.
I mean, the professional army point just came back into my head that last second there, and I thought he's right.
I think if it was versus each other, as we are in this versus episode, I think the Empire would wipe the Bretonians off the face of the Earth,
and then the horses would be left alone.
After that.
That's the real rescue the Empire can provide.
I won the people's hearts, and that's all that matters to me.
There were some great arguments, I think, from both sides.
I do enjoy Eli's particular positive attitude towards it.
As much as Colin was being hateful, justifiably towards the Bretonians,
Eli's shining kindness throughout, just in general life as well.
Eli's a very nice dude.
That made me go, oh, it just kept bringing me back to Bretonia.
But again, on paper, I think, unfortunately, Empire do slightly take it.
It was close, though, boys.
How do you guys think your competitor did?
Do you have any thoughts for the buddy?
Coming into it, I already knew Colin knew way more about the Empire than I know about Bretonia,
and he definitely showed that.
He knows his stuff.
It was a good argument.
It was a good show.
A little bit more of a positive end on the episode, this version versus.
Again, thank you guys so much for listening.
Again, we love suggestions, the suggestions.
We will obviously try and cover them, particularly if it's fantasy ones.
We, again, as I said earlier, we love the excuse just to talk about one with fancy,
because it's still alive.
Trust me, bro, I swear.
The CAs are doing a good job.
The CAs are trying to kill it, yeah.
The vinyl nails me, Colin.
Hopefully, we'll get back on this and it's changed a little bit.
Bro, it hurts.
Come on, come on, Horsham.
Old World will come out in the next 10 years, bro.
I'm tired.
After 30 more scouring novels, it's coming.
With that being said, though, thank you guys so much for listening and watching.
If you haven't seen some of our other stuff, obviously we have the Beginner to Esper podcast.
If you're new or you're kind of very advanced in Warhammer knowledge,
it's a great opportunity to kind of either dip your toe in and then have a first listen,
learn some stuff, or maybe we'll cover some details you haven't heard before
and obviously there's unreasonably a craft banter between all of us boys.
And again, suggestions for verses, we love to hear them.
It doesn't have to be fantasy, as I dimensionally know, it can be 40-
It can be Ender Space 2.
Ender Space 2, Sigma, or even other franchises, we love to hear it.
And thank you guys so much for watching.
Peace.
Bye, love you.
Bye, everyone.
Take care.
Bye.