1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,120 I'm gonna start off, Korn, your honor. He sucks. The blood god is a bland deity. 2 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:09,600 He literally is a walking contradiction. He supposedly represents honor, 3 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:15,040 but yet his worshipers slaughter the weakened defenseless. How can one be honorable and yet 4 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:21,920 not care for when the blood flows? I'm sorry, that makes no sense. Slaneš targets elves. Cringe. 5 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:30,720 Leave them alone. 6 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:49,520 Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the Versus series on lore crimes. Today 7 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:54,480 I'm proud to announce the return of the one and only Deadlyfs from the Dark Gods. 8 00:00:55,040 --> 00:01:02,560 He's finally done being cringe on his honeymoon. We're happy to have him back. And 9 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:10,400 less fortunately, it is now Andy's turn to take a vacation. He is what you call a workaholic. 10 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:17,280 So the Rememberser will not be hindered this episode, but that's okay because it's a 2v2. 11 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:25,280 And since I'm once again not outnumbered 3 to 1, I'm much more confident filling this episode 12 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:30,880 with Eldar and Vtubers. So welcome everyone. Oh god. Welcome to hell. I had the perfect meme 13 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:36,800 prepared just for that moment. I didn't realize I might lose on the meme side of this. Oh god. 14 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:42,880 It's only one meme I saw today. You guys got the memes locked down, hell. If I can say anything 15 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:50,400 going into this, I would be wary of Eli. But I will not be partaking in this Versus. After the 16 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:58,000 last two, I brutalized Hal and Eli. It was a resounding Colin victory. I said Eli, Hal and 17 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:08,480 Andy. Eli has not been here yet. I goofed already. So it will be my turn to judge. And Hal will be 18 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:15,520 taking the corner in the blue corner. The Chaos Gods, the Ruinous Powers. I'm Lovecrafting Gods. 19 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:24,480 Oh my god. It's not going well. This is what happens when Andy is gone. 20 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:34,480 How will we... Let me restart. Eli will be defending the Ruinous Powers, the Chaos Gods, 21 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:41,680 the Great Four. I hope to hear a little bit of the horgrat, but I'm not getting my fingers crossed 22 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:51,600 over it. And Hal, as he said, because I completely flubbed who was who, will be defending in the red 23 00:02:51,600 --> 00:03:00,160 corner the Lovecrafting Gods, Asshet, Cthulhu, Shub, you can't say that word. Yeah, I got the scour on that. 24 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:09,120 And and perhaps most devastatingly of all, Mr. HP Lovecraft's cat. I was gonna... No, I had that joke already. 25 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:10,320 He said it. He said it. 26 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:19,360 And how about we'll start with Eli, since you're defending the the Warhammer side of things and 27 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:24,000 this is a Warhammer channel. Why don't you go first? How do you feel about today's argument? 28 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:28,160 I feel pretty good. Like you said, this is a Warhammer channel. We're not going to let no 29 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:33,200 other universes in on this stuff. There's no way we're going to lose that, right? So 30 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:43,120 Chaos Brothers, stay winning. I love Talos. What? Talos one lost time. I do support Eli's fervor, 31 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:50,640 however, I have so far only been the non-Warhammer side. So I support the fervor, but I can't support 32 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:56,720 the substance. That being said, I'm always angry when I'm thinking about chaos and I'm hoping Eli, 33 00:03:56,720 --> 00:04:04,080 you'll bring that energy to the table. Sounds good, buddy. Hell yeah. How almost? How? How 34 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:08,160 are you feeling? How passionate are you about this argument? How do you think Lovecraft's 35 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:14,560 going to do here? Well, I've just got the better arguments already. So, um, I don't, I honestly 36 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:20,240 don't even need to say anymore. That's literally it. I've got this. It's in the bag. 37 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:26,400 Well, it's quite the interesting battle here because on the one hand, Warhammer, the Chaos Gods, 38 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:32,720 obviously more familiar with our audience, but Cthulhu and all the Lovecraft fellas, 39 00:04:33,280 --> 00:04:41,840 much, much more wider, broad cultural appeal. So who's going to win the niche nerds or the broad 40 00:04:41,840 --> 00:04:42,640 nerds? 41 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:48,560 I have something funny to say and it did not come up. Nevermind. This is already bad. 42 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:55,760 Oh man. Well, we will figure this out later. In the meantime, gentlemen, are you both ready 43 00:04:55,760 --> 00:05:03,280 for a nice clean, dirty metal? All right. Eli, I'm going to start the talk, uh, the timer now. 44 00:05:03,280 --> 00:05:12,800 Uh, are you ready? Yes. All right. Your time begins now. 45 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:19,360 Thank you, sir. Let me tell you about the primordial truth, the natural way of the universe 46 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:25,920 and the beginning of all things that are holy. Uh, the four Chaos Gods were created by the 47 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:31,280 natural, let's remember natural emotions and actions of the people of the universe. 48 00:05:31,280 --> 00:05:35,920 Slaanesh is a little bit different, but she's special. We'll talk about her later. Maybe they 49 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:42,640 fulfill your needs and they're perfect. They're perfect for you. No matter who you are. Uh, if 50 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:48,800 you're an angry guy, then you can find Mr. Corn, but also it's not all about being angry. Uh, he 51 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:54,000 can, you know, take your anger and shape it into something better. But we'll talk about that in a 52 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:59,440 little bit as well. I want to hear some fish stuff first. Um, each God gives you some unique, 53 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:08,720 wonderful blessings, we'll say, um, that are very, they're very powerful, very nice, but you don't 54 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:14,640 have to worship a single one either. You can pledge your allegiance to all four of them and broader, 55 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:20,880 because there's more than four. Spoiler alert. Uh, they watch you. They are pleased with their 56 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:25,920 servants and they will reward you for your service. Some of them go as far as even loving you. If we 57 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:31,280 have grandfather and Urgo here, his grandfather for a reason, because he truly loves his servants. 58 00:06:31,280 --> 00:06:37,200 He brings you wonderful happiness and he will reward you greatly through all of your struggles. 59 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:43,520 We have corn who's strong. He's powerful are about all about martial pride slashes about perfection 60 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:50,640 and also love and joy and good times. And Zech is all about knowledge and the pursuit of knowledge 61 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:57,920 and sorcery and magic. If you're into that kind of thing, they have persevered throughout the 40 K 62 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:03,760 universe throughout the millennia. Unlike things like the old ones who have all died out, like the 63 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:09,360 fools they are, there were, they were false gods. One can say the Kitan, they didn't make it either, 64 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:13,760 but the chaos guys are still going strong. They're always going to be around. They're playing the 65 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:20,240 great game forever. Who doesn't like games overall chaos is a good time. We'll get into the needy 66 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:27,200 gritty in a little bit. I think I want to hear a fish man's arguments first. No, you're cutting 67 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:34,800 out early. You do a perhaps. All right. That's a quite some confidence from Eli on a on round one. 68 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:38,640 It was a, it was a solid, a nice introduction to the chaos gods, what they're about. 69 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:46,720 At least a couple of them, the big hitters and how, how would you like to follow this up? 70 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:54,400 Well, your time starts already. So your honor, I'm not here to talk about any Lovecraftian cats, 71 00:07:55,360 --> 00:08:04,000 talk about Lovecraftian horror, also known as the Cthulhu mythos, which is home to a pantheon of 72 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:12,320 horrific, terrifying deities that are simple human notions of gods. And it just twists them into 73 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:19,120 monsters beyond comprehension. Our little minds cannot even fathom them, let alone even perceive 74 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:26,480 their true forms. Eli gave us a little introduction on these chaos gods, you know, 75 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:33,840 little old Nurgle corn, you know, a bloated overweight man, a dark night, a little hermaphrodite, 76 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:39,520 how can I even say the word hermaphrodite form. All these are simple, trivial designs that speak 77 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:48,320 to a human touch, they are human ideas. The Lovecraftian gods are a twisted bulging eyes, 78 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:56,080 mucus covered flesh, tentacles, little sprinkle of oceanic life and influence in there, all those 79 00:08:56,080 --> 00:09:04,240 great like deep sea creatures. And I only have to point out the iconic, the main man, the actual 80 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:12,880 sort of poster boy Cthulhu himself. He is a mix of disgusting and badass in one form. And I'll say, 81 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:20,400 whilst I'm still here, feel of the ocean, that as a concept, by the way, is so badass and actually 82 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:26,400 relatable rather than, oh, corn is not terrifying. He's just he's more like, ah, you know, you scare 83 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:31,360 and it's kind of like the end comes with a big axe. The actual ocean, I bet everyone here is 84 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:36,880 terrified of the ocean, you know, sitting helplessly there. That is essentially the feeling of these 85 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:46,400 Lovecraftian gods. The Lovecraftian mythos, these old gods have existed long, long before humanity, 86 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:54,160 long before we were even primordial soup and will continue to live long after our species has faded 87 00:09:54,160 --> 00:10:02,160 from memory. And the fact that they also do not even care about humans, the chaos gods want to 88 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:09,600 corrupt us, they need us, the Lovecraftian gods, they don't even at times acknowledge humanity 89 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:15,360 because they are literally a speck in the existence and the timeline of the Lovecraftian universe. 90 00:10:16,560 --> 00:10:23,200 To even, yeah, I'm still going, to even come in contact with these deities, you will never 91 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:31,440 leave unscathed. The chaos gods can be fought, held at bay for 10,000 years at Cadia, held at bay. 92 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:36,560 And if I remember actually, isn't Slaanesh imprisoned within the age of sigma setting? 93 00:10:36,560 --> 00:10:37,360 Is that right, Colin? 94 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:38,640 As a warhammer, as a warhammer. 95 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:44,160 Yeah, well, no, Slaanesh, a god got imprisoned. Hmm, that sucks. 96 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:47,200 I'm afraid it is just a warhammer argument. It is still valid. 97 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:56,320 And the, yeah, so, god, how powerful are they? The Lovecraftian deities can only be survived 98 00:10:56,320 --> 00:11:03,200 for a time as madness will come for you in the end. You will never get past them unscathed. 99 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:09,600 All you can do is pray that you do not gain their simple attention, otherwise you are screwed. 100 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:18,320 Your honor, I speak of Yog-Sothoth. The mass of glowing orbs, eyes and tendrils. 101 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:24,080 It is an omniscient god, meaning it can see all of time and space at once. 102 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:28,080 And there's also no secret, no knowledge hidden from it. 103 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:33,280 Yog-Sothoth is the gate, the pathway to all knowledge in the universe. 104 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:36,400 It knows whatever will be, whatever has been. 105 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:42,240 He is what Zech wishes he could be, and for he knows absolutely everything. 106 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,840 Even Colin's favorite VTubers, may I point out. 107 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:48,080 Slightly difficult to say. 108 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:48,640 Excessively sleepy. 109 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:54,160 This one is called Shub-Hmmm. I can't quite say the name because YouTube, your honor. 110 00:11:54,960 --> 00:12:01,440 This is an enormous mass of extruding black tentacles, slime-dripping mouths. 111 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:06,960 It has short writhing goat legs. It's actually terrifying rather than just whatever 112 00:12:07,680 --> 00:12:09,520 nurgle or corn is meant to look like. 113 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:13,840 This is what Slenesh wishes it could be. 114 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:18,080 A goddess of fertility that puts she who thirsts in her place, 115 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:21,840 with an actual form that is terrifying, rather than just being like, 116 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:27,120 oh, it's slightly humanoid, or trying to impersonate the superior race, the Eldar. 117 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:28,640 Yes, we're being biased. 118 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:33,440 Small creatures are continuously spat forth from this horrific thing, 119 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:37,440 and they monsters flood the universe. Not the warp, the actual universe. 120 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:44,080 Your honor, I speak of Nyarlathotep, the crawling chaos. 121 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:47,840 He is the greatest manipulator the universe can ever see. 122 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:53,440 He has no true form, and he only allows humanity to continue to exist 123 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,080 because he finds it as an interesting playground. 124 00:12:56,080 --> 00:13:00,560 He is basically what Zeench wishes it could be, and is in fact, 125 00:13:00,560 --> 00:13:05,200 Zeench is a rip-off of Nyarlathotep, who is the superior deity, 126 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:08,640 because he can actually win, rather than just being like, 127 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:11,280 oh, I got fooled, or it's some better plan in the end. 128 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:14,880 Your honor, I also speak of Hastur, the king in yellow. 129 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:21,040 Yes, a creature that's so iconic, its imagery still influences modern 40k, 130 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:23,360 with good old Konstantin Valdor. 131 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,640 He is a torture of the mind, invading dreams. 132 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:29,520 He is a master of his own dimension, Carcosa. 133 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:35,120 And I will finish on the fact that Lovecraftian gods are actually terrifying, 134 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:40,880 and you would, even in your own mind, your dreams, you're not free from them. 135 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:43,680 The Chaos Gods have to find some way to get to you. 136 00:13:43,680 --> 00:13:48,320 The Lovecraftian gods are there, no matter what you do, and I'll leave it there. 137 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:52,480 No matter what you do, and I'll leave it there. 138 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:54,480 Alright, just about six minutes on the dot. 139 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:55,440 Hell yeah. 140 00:13:55,440 --> 00:14:00,240 So Hal had definitely quite the argument to bring up. 141 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:02,560 He used his full time allotted. 142 00:14:02,560 --> 00:14:05,920 I imagine there could have been more coming, but I'm afraid six minutes- 143 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:06,640 Oh, I've got more. 144 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:07,360 I've got more. 145 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:09,520 I'm not shocked to hear it. 146 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:15,920 But that being said, there's something to be said for the quiet confidence of Eli's brevity in his section. 147 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:19,840 I'll say, Eli, do you want more time on the next section? 148 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:22,160 I don't mind you donating. 149 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:25,840 We'll see how long it takes to get through this. 150 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:30,320 Since he graciously used his time briefly, we will see. 151 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:36,000 If you run a little bit long, we can extend it just a bit, as you go. 152 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:36,560 No problem. 153 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:43,120 So one question, I'll just do a broad question, both of you can answer. 154 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:46,480 Eli, I'll have you go first since you went first. 155 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:51,440 What is the broad appeal of the Chaos Gods? 156 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:58,720 And what I mean by that is, how easy, I guess, for like Red Word, is it for their cults to form, right? 157 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:04,480 Like, I know cults are a very strong running theme of each of these powers. 158 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:11,440 How easy is it for Chaos Gods for them to get a sort of a foothold in the mortal realm in such a way, 159 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:14,000 and just other general meanings? 160 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:16,400 How easy, I guess, I guess a better way to put it is, 161 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:20,640 how easy is it for the Chaos Gods to interact with the material world? 162 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:23,360 Very easy, very easy. 163 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:28,880 All you need is one little gateway to the human mind and soul, and bam, there you go. 164 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:31,200 They could also have their emissaries of demons. 165 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:37,840 They appeal to so much of the human psyche, and fit all the niches and roles that somebody would need. 166 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:44,480 It's hard to not want to turn to the Chaos Gods in the universe of Warhammer 40,000, 167 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:47,200 because they're just the perfect answer to so many issues. 168 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:53,040 And you don't go insane the moment that you start worshipping them either, which is a plus, I'd say. 169 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:54,720 And you get actual benefits. 170 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:57,760 You know, they have dental and healthcare and time off and vacation days. 171 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:00,560 Interesting, interesting. 172 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:03,200 Hal, how about yourself? 173 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:09,280 How easy is it for the Lovecraftian gods to get a foothold on the material world? 174 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:15,360 I know from preconceived biases, I will admit, I feel like it is a little bit easier for the 175 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:20,400 Warhammer Chaos Gods to get their grubby little claws into the foothold. 176 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:26,000 But that could very much just be, I've read much more Warhammer than I have Lovecraftian lore. 177 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:29,520 So, Hal, how easily can they get in? 178 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:34,800 Well, Your Honor, the Lovecraftian deities are not even locked away. 179 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:36,400 He said you need a gate. 180 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:42,160 The Lovecraftian deities don't even need a gate because they are actually in the material universe. 181 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:46,960 They are alongside, oh, humans are alongside them, shall I say. 182 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:53,520 And to, I mean, if they even wanted to talk to humans, the Chaos Gods can't stop themselves. 183 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,400 They are literally creations that have to corrupt. 184 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:59,200 They have no free will in that way. 185 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:05,200 If the Lovecraftian deities wanted to talk to humans, all they have to do is simply invade 186 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:06,720 their mind and their dreams. 187 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:10,160 Many of them could even, they don't even have to look at them or be near them. 188 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:13,920 They could just will it to be and they could have the humans under their control. 189 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:21,040 They only like to form cults, even though the smaller ones do like to form cults through some effort. 190 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:22,960 The larger ones don't even have to. 191 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:25,040 They can literally just will it into being. 192 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:31,680 Interesting. Okay. That's quite the point in their favor. 193 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:32,000 Yeah. 194 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:36,000 So it looks like Lovecraftians may have a little bit of an easier time. 195 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:44,080 But from my, at least again, my understanding, the Chaos Gods are, they do have built-in appeals, 196 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:49,920 as it were, where you don't need to just be looking for power so you start worshiping Haster. 197 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:55,440 It would appear that the Chaos Gods have some built-in reasons where people would turn to them. 198 00:17:56,160 --> 00:18:00,880 So it looks like they both have advantages and disadvantages, if I were to say so. 199 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,240 Now, are the contestants ready for round two? 200 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:04,800 Ready. 201 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:05,520 I am. 202 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:09,040 Eli, your time starts now. 203 00:18:11,360 --> 00:18:16,320 Epic. So why don't we talk about the blessings and worship of the Chaos Gods, which by the way, 204 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:21,600 is of your own free will to decide to follow the Chaos Gods. You're not forced into it, 205 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:26,160 and they don't have to seize their way into your minds just to get you. 206 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:31,920 So let's start with Slaanesh. She is the goddess or god of pleasure and accomplishment. 207 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:36,960 She brings you upon the journey of perfection, of arts and beauty, attention to details. 208 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:40,800 If you're an artist and you're looking for some more skill, just head over to Slaanesh 209 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:44,640 and she'll hit you up. If you like VTubers, Slaanesh will give you all the VTubers you 210 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:48,400 could ever want to. You can even be a VTuber. Slaanesh will help you get there. She helps you 211 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:55,920 be who you want to be and to pursue whatever you want perfectly in a beautiful, incredible aspect. 212 00:18:55,920 --> 00:19:00,560 For Zeench, he's the lord of knowledge and power and sorcery and future seeing. 213 00:19:01,120 --> 00:19:03,840 If you want to change the future a little bit, you don't like a 214 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,880 cataclysmic event that might happen to your planet, you can see that. 215 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:10,080 You can get rid of it. Everyone will be happy. Thanks, Zeench. 216 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:13,280 He'll also give you knowledge if you want to, you know, learn about all your 217 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:18,480 favorite animes and VTubers and whatnot. You'll have everything you could ever dream of 218 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:24,480 to be with those wacky individuals. You can have power in government if you want to take over and 219 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:29,760 rule your planet. Zeench is your guy. He'll get you there through political intrigue and genius. 220 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:36,240 He can get you some cool wacky spells that could maybe even heal, you know, heal some plagues that 221 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:41,120 are going on. There's some Zeench and Miracle Overlap there. Yeah, I think Zeench is pretty 222 00:19:41,120 --> 00:19:47,280 cool. He's a changer of ways, you know, change is inevitable and Zeench embodies that and, you know, 223 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:51,200 if you have some problem with change, you can hit up Zeench and he'll help you go with the ebb and 224 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:57,680 flow of time and change. Nergal is a representation of the beautiful way of life. There's nothing more 225 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:03,440 natural than Mr. Nergal himself representing the life cycle of... It's just natural. It's just purely 226 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:08,640 natural. If you want to go the, you know, normal guy route, I think Nergal is a perfect opportunity 227 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:12,400 for you. If you really like your garden, he can also bring you lots of life. He can bring you 228 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:18,480 yourself eternal life. That seems like a pretty nice reward to me. Eternal life and bliss in this 229 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:22,720 eternal life. You're always happy. You always feel good. You'll never come down with bad disease. 230 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:28,080 You'll never feel pain. He takes all the pain and hardships away and he loves you. He's grandfather 231 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:35,280 Nergal. I don't know of any other gods in any other fictional universe can quite love you as 232 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:41,040 much as Mr. Nergal. He also brings you a very nice sense of duty and a purpose in life to spread his 233 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:46,080 plagues and his word throughout the galaxy. You never have to have any existential dread of not 234 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:51,520 knowing what to do. Nergal is there for you. Then we have Khorne, finally. If you want strength, 235 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:55,600 if you want to be a good athlete, just hit up Khorne. He'll make you a good warrior. He'll give 236 00:20:55,600 --> 00:21:02,240 you tons of muscles, tons of athletic technique and honor and courage. You defend the weak if 237 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:08,080 you're one of Khorne's. You get great physical might reward and you can push the injustices of 238 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:14,480 your world. Khorne's awesome. Then you have some minor guys like Hashut and the great horned rat 239 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:21,440 and Malice. They will bless you in different ways. Malice is a pretty spooky guy but if you just 240 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:26,160 you just love chaos, Malice is your guy. Hashut will help you make things and build things. You 241 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:32,240 can forge things and the great horned rat is just, you know, nobody hates on the great horned rat. 242 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:37,920 Yes, yes. Get all the warpstone you want, all the psychic abilities you want. He's your guy. 243 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:43,360 Let's look at their champions. We have Lucius the Eternal. He's a perfect swordsman who literally 244 00:21:43,360 --> 00:21:48,080 lives forever. You can't kill him and even if you thought you could then the writers just make a 245 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:52,800 way for him to come back so it's fine. That's what you can expect when you get with Slynessh at the 246 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:57,600 epitome of it. We have Khorne. He's the greatest warrior to ever live. His kill count is in the 247 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:03,760 millions. We have Typhus. He's invincible and implacable. He has the great gifts of Nurgle. 248 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:08,960 Nobody can get this guy. We have Armin who serves her supreme who has magic beyond might and knowledge 249 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:13,440 beyond comprehension. The chaos gods really like you and they're appealing and they're not going to 250 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:17,520 force you to worship them. You'll just come to it yourself and you don't have to be crazy to do it. 251 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:25,360 All right. I did add a minute on to make it four minutes rather than three. I know since you 252 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:31,040 were nice and brief in your opening argument. So that was I think a strong round by Eli. 253 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:37,280 Hal, are you ready for your three minutes? I wish you could hear me crack my knuckles 254 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:42,960 because I'm ready. All right, your time starts now. I'm just going to get over the small point 255 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:47,920 of being forced to do it. People willingly go to the Lovecraftian gods because you do get boons. 256 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:52,400 I should have said that earlier. You get magic. You get immortality, things like that. If you 257 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:56,640 really want to turn into fish people and swim to the bottom of the ocean, that's one of the smaller 258 00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:02,560 benefits. But your honor, I have come to speak of the Lovecraftian deities as these ancient 259 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:09,840 creatures that barely even acknowledge humanity. The chaos gods are the creations of psychic, 260 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:17,040 sorry, the psychic remnant of sentient life. They are enslaved to act with only within those 261 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:22,320 parameters that psychic life gives them. Korn can't choose to do anything else outside of that. 262 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:28,400 He has to fight. He has to spill blood. He's basically a slave and the Lovecraftian deities 263 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:34,480 are completely free. They are sentient beings that allow themselves to do whatever they want 264 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:41,840 with the power that defies even the chaos gods. And the chaos gods, essentially, all they do 265 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:47,600 is seek to destroy themselves. Once sentient life dies out, which they're desperately trying to kill, 266 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:53,920 the chaos gods die with them. They're basically self-destructive in the end. That's all they are. 267 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:59,840 They're essentially a residual force given a little bit of form and you have to rely, as a 268 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:05,120 chaos god, upon mortals to enter the material universe. They're not even in the correct 269 00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:10,080 universe at the moment. They have to use others because they're not strong enough to actually 270 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:17,360 exist within the material universe without fading away. And Lovecraftian deities' power has no such 271 00:24:17,360 --> 00:24:23,040 limitations and they would literally, as I say, a bit of a cheap shot, but they would literally 272 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:29,680 obliterate the chaos gods if it came down to a fight. I think Angron, with the act, the power of 273 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:35,840 Korn with him, managed to destroy one planet with a swing. The Lovecraftian deities don't even 274 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:42,000 necessarily have to move a finger to have the exact same effect. They literally just don't care 275 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:47,840 to do it because they have no reason to interact with ants like us. And I will speak of my last 276 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:56,640 ace card here. I speak of Azathoth. He is a deity whose form could not even be described because it 277 00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:03,040 does not fit within the confines of human language. It's so far beyond what Korn, Zinch or Sonesh could 278 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:11,760 ever imagine. The entire universe is simply a dream of Azathoth and if he wanted to wipe out the 279 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:19,600 chaos gods, he could simply do it by waking up. He has no such limitations as, oh, I need to go 280 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:26,000 through a warp portal. I need to use a human. At any point, he literally just awakens and then with 281 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:32,160 a snap of his fingers, the entire universe. Elias said the writing staff could write Lucius better 282 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:37,040 and make him immortal. Azathoth would eliminate the writing staff, so therefore, they have no power. 283 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:41,680 That's the writing staff's power, not even the chaos gods' power. That's right, mine is better. 284 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:51,440 Alright. Quite another strong rebel from hell. Now, I actually have three questions this round. 285 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:56,640 A general one for each of you and then one specifically for the both of you. So, start 286 00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:04,480 with the general one. Now, as I said last time and as we know, they both are quite fond of cults, 287 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:09,440 or at least the universes are quite fond of giving these guys cults for their main forms of worship. 288 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:14,880 Rather than how easy it is for them to get a foothold and create these cults, I would like to ask, 289 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:20,640 how difficult is it for these cults to do their business, as it were, in their respective universes? 290 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:28,000 So, Eli, how difficult is it for a chaos cult to start growing, get some power, 291 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:35,840 to expand and all that such? How severe are the consequences to being found out? 292 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:41,120 I think it depends on where you live, probably, but if you live in the right places, it's very easy. 293 00:26:41,120 --> 00:26:45,920 If you live in the wrong places, it's fairly hard, but still possible. If you're in a hive city, 294 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:50,640 there's plenty of places to hide and do your worship. Or if you're just born into it, then easy 295 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:55,280 peasy, right? If it's a chaos-owned planet, then you don't really have to worry about it. Or if it's 296 00:26:55,280 --> 00:27:00,000 far from the Imperium's view and governors don't really care, don't really pay attention, it's 297 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:04,480 pretty easy peasy. On planets like those, the punishments might not be as severe because you 298 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:09,840 probably will have the governor on your side by the time he finds out. Unfortunately, in places 299 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:15,680 where the Imperium is strongest, punishments can be quite severe because they just don't understand, 300 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:23,360 they're afraid of the primordial truth, they fear of the blessings they give because they know 301 00:27:23,360 --> 00:27:29,680 what's better than the emperors. Ooh, spicy. I imagine a chaos cult that started on 302 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:33,200 Holy Terra would not get very far. Probably not. 303 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:39,440 Hell, turn it over to you. Lovecraftian stories take place in our own, I guess Warhammer, 304 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:45,360 tactically 40k also, takes place in our own world, just a little bit in the future. 305 00:27:45,360 --> 00:27:50,160 Lovecraft's much more closer to home, that being said, so how easy is it for these cults to 306 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:56,240 get their foot in the door, get things rolling, and what happens when they're found out? 307 00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:01,520 Well, they luckily, pretty much within most of the Lovecraftian stories, funny enough, 308 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:07,600 most of the cults either get birthed through simply dreams, so the chaos gods, the Lovecraftian gods 309 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:13,680 don't even have to have a medium or like a sacrifice or something working on behalf of 310 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:19,760 like a chaos god, they can literally just go, ah, I picked that one, or I hear that one begging for 311 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:25,680 my name, and again, most of the stuff in Lovecraftian horror, most of the cults are always successful 312 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:30,320 as well, like even if they get found out, they still manage to work their way through the 313 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:34,880 door, they still manage to win in the end, no matter which story you look at, most of the time 314 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:40,160 the cult has actually succeeded in their plans, where I think most chaos cults get crumped, or 315 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:45,520 the Inquisition comes and annihilates the entire planet, so basically, no matter what kind of plot 316 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:50,800 was going along, it just like ends in nil disaster, the Lovecraftian ones are actually successful. 317 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:58,480 Alright, alright, and how destructive is it usually when they're found out, that being said? 318 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:02,640 What do the mortal authorities respond with, generally? 319 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:05,280 Should I go first on that one? 320 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:06,640 I think. 321 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:08,080 No, I thought I was just asking you. 322 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:09,440 Oh, I can go first if you want. 323 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:18,880 Well, you said it, Eli, we kind of know how the Imperium usually responds to chaos cults, 324 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,280 the world is now an asteroid. 325 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:30,960 Well, luckily, because of the knowledge of the great Lovecraftian deities are so hidden away, 326 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:36,640 actually, the response to many of these cults is pretty lackluster, because they just don't know 327 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:41,680 how to respond to things that are so far beyond human comprehension, it's usually like a few 328 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:48,320 policemen who try and fumble their way through to try and tackle these cults, so the actual response 329 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:52,000 is pretty lackluster compared to an actual god being involved. 330 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:56,240 I see, I see. And now, good point, good point. 331 00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:05,680 And now a question, a hardball for each of you. Eli, now, of course, both of these immensely 332 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:12,320 powerful alien pantheons do, at least in some ways, empower their worshippers. 333 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:19,040 With the Chaos Gods, though, and again, I admit some of this could be lacking of knowledge on my 334 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:24,400 part, but to my knowledge, Lovecraftian gods, while they don't necessarily care about their 335 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:30,160 worshippers, usually do not turn them into living soup, such as the Thousand Suns or Chaos Spawn, 336 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:34,560 when their worshippers are a bit too easy with their power. I mean, it was Magnus' fault, 337 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:40,560 Magnus did everything wrong. But I need you to ask, how can you defend such a thing where, 338 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:46,640 even if you love the Chaos Gods too much, they turn you into a Chaos Spawn or they punish you? 339 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:52,160 How are such things defensible? Well, you know, all things in moderation, 340 00:30:52,160 --> 00:31:00,960 as we know, moderation is very healthy. But if you do it right, you get only the good stuff. 341 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:06,400 Even some of the bad stuff is not that bad most of the time. It's pretty rare that a dude gets 342 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:11,200 turned into a Chaos Spawn. You've got to mess up pretty astronomically. And most of the time, 343 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:15,600 if you go really for it, you'll get turned into a Demon Prince, which is pretty dang cool to me. 344 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:20,480 I don't think that's so bad. You know, if you mess up with Zaint, you might get a few extra 345 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:25,520 tentacles. But I mean, come on, like, what's wrong with that? You have more limbs now to do more 346 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:31,200 stuff. I don't see a big deal in that. Flesh might make you a little obsessed, but it's not always a 347 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:35,040 bad thing to be obsessed. You'll get really good at something if you're obsessed with it. And I 348 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:39,120 mean, Nergal has no downsides. Other people might think you're ugly and gross looking, but you're 349 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:44,640 happy. You don't see what they see. You know in the inside that you're a happy guy and that you're 350 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:52,320 beautiful to Nergal himself and you're pretty safe. I see. I see. Thank you, Wielon. That was a 351 00:31:52,800 --> 00:32:01,040 succinct, a nice good answer. Hal, your hardball will be. If I were to list off all of the 352 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:06,480 Lovecraftian deities on the YouTube video, how quickly would I be cancelled? And how does this 353 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:13,200 affect the larger scale of the war? That's a very good point to be fair. Well, funny enough, 354 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:19,360 there's only probably one name that would probably slightly get you in trouble, but that has no 355 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:25,360 bearing on the actual power of the Lovecraftian deities. And in fact, these are just simply the 356 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:30,080 human names we assign them, because again, we don't even necessarily possess the capability to 357 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:35,440 say their true name or to utter it in their alien tongue. So technically, it's not really their 358 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,960 fault. It's actually YouTube's fault and humanity's fault because we're just so weak. 359 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:50,560 And racist. Yes. They don't care about race because everyone is just other to them. 360 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:57,120 HP Lovecraft, no. Not the cat. Leave the cat. 361 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:05,200 So that is some good points from everyone. Eli, I do like how you managed to sort of put out 362 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:13,120 an actually pretty good defense on the whole chaos spawning your soul thing. And Hal, I do like how 363 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:19,680 you pointed out that, again, they're so alien that what we call them is simply not even their true 364 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:24,560 names. It's just the closest we can come to comprehending that. That being said, it is still 365 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:31,520 something you need to keep in mind with the with the respective pantheons. The chaos gods can, 366 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:39,520 can at their whim, harshly punish you. And with the Lovecraftian universe, it's very racist. 367 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:50,000 It would appear that both of these universe, both of these deities have some pretty significant 368 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:57,280 built in weaknesses. Yes. Are you both ready for the assault round? I don't want to hear nice 369 00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:02,240 argument. I want to hear just insults being thrown back and forth. Is everyone ready? I'm ready. 370 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:10,960 Eli, or Hal, I want you to imagine that if you don't bring out all the vitriol you have, 371 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:18,080 the sleeping god will wake and everything will just simply blue screen and end. Well, I'm not 372 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:22,640 going to bring up the spirit of HP Lovecraft, if you know what I mean. But I will get off. 373 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:28,320 And I just want to say I want some vitriol going and Eli, I want you to imagine that Endless Space 374 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:35,360 2 has just desync for the fifth time that night. Oh, no, no. Oh my gosh. You're gonna have to kill 375 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:42,720 Hal. Why would you do that? I'm booking a plane ticket right now. So are the contestants ready? 376 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:48,080 Yep. Yes. All right, Eli, your minute of hate starts now. 377 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:55,440 As you wish. Let's see. I'm not a big hater. We all know that, but I'll try my best. Why would 378 00:34:55,440 --> 00:35:00,400 you worship these goofy freaking gods? There's literally no reason to think about them at all. 379 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:05,760 They're dicks. They don't care about you at all. And they make it that goofy ass looking fish people 380 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:11,840 for the slimy and ugly. Come on. You get nothing good out of that. What are these Lovecraftian 381 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:15,600 gods even going up against? They're so powerful and all, but they don't have an emperor of mankind 382 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:21,040 to go up against. There's just, what are they going to do from the 17th century? Oh, big deal. 383 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:25,600 The Chaos gods would have an issue with that. And we say they're so OP and they could take over the 384 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:29,920 universe, but they haven't yet. There must be some kind of reason that they have to sustain. 385 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:35,840 Maybe they're too scared of losing their little baby guys. Let's be honest. These guys kind of 386 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:40,560 sound like a little kid made them be like, my guy can do this and your guy can't do this. My guy is 387 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:46,800 OP and your guy's not OP. And that's just how it is. All I'm saying is I don't see a point of liking 388 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:52,080 these guys of being on their side. They're just goofy. You don't get cool Norse skins and Skaven 389 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:59,360 and Chaos Prismarines. There's no reason. They're ugly and they're goofy. Goofy. All right. They're 390 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:13,360 ugly. It is looking quite good. Hal, your turn. Your time starts now. I'm going to start off. 391 00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:18,720 Corn, your honor. He sucks. The Blood God is a bland deity. He literally is a walking 392 00:36:18,720 --> 00:36:24,480 contradiction. He supposedly represents honor, but yet his worshipers slaughter the weak and 393 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:29,760 defenseless. How can one be honorable and yet not care for when the blood flows? I'm sorry. 394 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:37,040 That makes no sense. Slanesh targets elves. Cringe. Leave them alone. Zinch, the changer of ways, 395 00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:43,200 supposedly can see the future and yet at times he loses on purpose because he just has to for some 396 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:48,080 reason. You said why the Lovecrafting God's not taken over. They don't. They already have. There's 397 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:53,200 no one to fight because they already won. There's no one to challenge them. The Chaos Gods even 398 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:58,080 altogether still couldn't beat humanity during the Horus heresy. They had to have a puppet like 399 00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:03,600 Horus who still couldn't beat the Emperor. Yeah, the Emperor actually won and beat all their armies. 400 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:08,560 Cadian took 10,000 years to get conquered. All the forces of Chaos. And it's like one thing. 401 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:13,440 And basically, they're all rip-offs of the Lovecrafting Gods anyway. They're pretty much all 402 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:25,280 rip-offs. All right. Hal definitely brought the vitriol for that round. I had better things to 403 00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:32,640 rip apart, your honor. Interesting. Interesting. Just give me a moment to mentally review the 404 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:40,240 arguments. Are there any words between each other you'd like to say? It's a free-for-all 405 00:37:40,240 --> 00:37:44,560 right now. I'm just trying to, while I collect and think on the arguments. Did the contestants 406 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,920 have anything they'd like to get off their chests? I thought it was really funny when he said they're 407 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:56,080 ugly. It's so true. Yeah. Chaos is beauty. Chaos is beauty. But that's the whole point. The problem 408 00:37:56,080 --> 00:38:02,640 with them is they are so humanly meant to... Like Korn, obviously, was it like a Dark Knight or 409 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:08,320 whatever? It's meant to be human. Imagine to think that you're so important that your God looked 410 00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:13,840 human. Like he has any need for what's between its legs, if you know what I mean. Like it has any 411 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:18,960 need for that. I thought it was funny that calling them ugly was hilarious. That was pretty funny. 412 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:30,240 You're ugly? I want to kill you? Give me $200. Yeah. Also, the Great Horned Rat, don't even call him 413 00:38:30,240 --> 00:38:35,680 a Chaos God. He's better than the Pantheon. He's better than them. He doesn't deserve to be sullied 414 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:43,680 with the rest of Korn. You saved it. Korn was cool until the writers messed it up. He wasn't always 415 00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:49,360 contradictory, I'm pretty sure. Yeah, but we don't have a GW writer moment. We don't have a Korn, 416 00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:55,040 though. We have all of them have something interesting about Lovecraftian. All right. 417 00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:03,600 I believe my mental calculations are completed. With round one, Eli gave us a nice little quick 418 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:11,280 summary of what they are. Went over the big Korn man, the big Nergal man. Good stuff. It was very 419 00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:18,160 quick. The brevity was quite nice and it was a nice quiet confidence. Pardon me. I'm having a 420 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:26,400 nice Dr. Pepper, the best soda ever. We all know Warhammer stuff anyway. We know Warhammer, 421 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:32,640 if you're watching this. It was a nice succinct introduction. Hal, on the other hand, there's 422 00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:38,640 also something to be said for filling the time up and making good use of the allotted time you have. 423 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:44,640 So both of those are commendable. Eli, second round. I do appreciate the... 424 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:52,240 what you had to bring to the table. Talk about how intrinsically the Chaos Gods connect to humanity. 425 00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:59,840 Which, while yes, Hal, you have said that the Lovecraftian Gods don't need it, I don't at 426 00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:03,760 least personally believe there's necessarily something inherently wrong with intrinsically 427 00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:11,920 needing humanity in the setting of 40k. Where the Xenos are given one paragraph of lore for every 428 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:20,880 20 about the Ultramarine's tenth company first tactical... And how you had to write their laurels 429 00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:28,800 and their purity cells properly. But that being said, again, it is undeniable that the 430 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:37,760 Lovecraftian deities and all that such and such just don't need us at the end of the day. 431 00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:43,760 They'll be here long after we're gone. Which of course, that does give weaknesses to both. 432 00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:50,720 Obviously the Chaos Gods are reliant on the mortal universe, but they also can get much, 433 00:40:50,720 --> 00:40:55,120 at least I feel, much more benefits from the mortal universe than the Lovecraftian Gods can, 434 00:40:55,120 --> 00:41:03,120 which is something to be said of both methods. And for the final round, both of you brought the 435 00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:11,360 Vitriol. Eli did mention Warhammer Fantasy, and mentioning Warhammer Fantasy is quite simply the 436 00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:17,600 easiest way for me to be on your side in a Warhammer argument. That's such a bribe. It's such a bribe. 437 00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:25,760 Warhammer Fantasy acknowledged. Much appreciated. However, Hal, in the spirit of the anger section, 438 00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:30,160 I do have to just flat out say, I think you brought a lot more Vitriol to the table, 439 00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:34,240 and that's something I have to commend for the anger section. 440 00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:38,880 Yeah, and I commented on Khorne as well. He did. 441 00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:40,640 There's a whole diss of Khorne. 442 00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:43,840 Speaking of bribery, he did also open up with Khorne sucks, 443 00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:51,840 which is undeniably also a good way to bribe me. So it looks a nice bit of bribery and anger 444 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:58,880 about throughout the episode, which is highly appreciated. Whoever says hard work pays off, 445 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:04,480 bribery pays off. It's not it's who you know and how to fuck up. Official lore crimes life advice. 446 00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,800 We don't stand by that. Please don't take that as gospel. 447 00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:13,920 As gospel. I'm kidding. Please don't blame me when you try and bribe a cop and then get shot. 448 00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:17,760 Also, Slaanesh targets elves, which is very cringe. 449 00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:21,040 Lach. See the bribery still going. 450 00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:22,960 Yeah, it's still I mean, I don't remember that. 451 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,360 But HP Lovecraft doesn't even have elves. 452 00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:31,280 I know. He's older than Lord of the Rings. 453 00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:34,800 That's uh, oh, that is uh, that is another good point. 454 00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:39,360 I mean, they just I mean, the writers hate the elves. It's even worse having them. 455 00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:45,120 That's true. The elves, the elves do get bullied in 40k, but they exist in the Warhammer setting. 456 00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:49,200 So perhaps they're not related to Chaos Gods. So thank you. 457 00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:50,880 Something to be said for both sides. 458 00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:56,480 And with that, I have my decision. 459 00:42:58,240 --> 00:43:02,880 Very hard to reach, honestly. I'm still not entirely sure. 460 00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:08,240 So I would again, I just do want to say both of these arguments quite speak to me personally. 461 00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,160 Whatever you might say from an unbiased point of view, I'm biased. 462 00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:15,120 I don't so I mean, you're not getting an unbiased judgemanship. 463 00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:18,160 Can comment below who you thought won as well. 464 00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:20,480 Oh, of course, as always, the audience. 465 00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:22,480 They will let us know. 466 00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:28,480 I am one vote. You are many votes like the Tyranid Hivemind Superior. 467 00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:34,000 Also, we've forgotten any good points. Be sure to comment below so we can use that for next time. 468 00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:40,560 We'll look them over, maybe bring them up in the next versus for some bangers you guys left. 469 00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:47,600 But my final vote, I'm afraid, needs to go to drumroll. 470 00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:51,600 I can't hear anything. 471 00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:53,600 I thought about banging on my desk. 472 00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:55,600 I would ruin the microphones. 473 00:43:55,600 --> 00:44:02,560 I'm afraid that I need to give it to Hal. 474 00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:04,800 Oh, my God. I mean, such suspense that did. 475 00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:09,680 Which one? Which was the deciding factor? 476 00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:15,120 Was it the the Azathoth like it's all a dream and he could just wake up and then they're gone? 477 00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:17,520 That's my strongest. 478 00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:23,280 That is that is something that kind of I feel does quite significantly revolve around, 479 00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:26,560 especially given that that's part of my defense for Talos. 480 00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:33,920 Circling around like when you take out one guy and everything just kind of stops. 481 00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:41,600 That is quite important, although I would like to say that though I think Hal won the debate. 482 00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:45,840 It was very close in my mind. 483 00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:47,920 I had a very hard time choosing. 484 00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:53,440 And to the point where I was still debating on if I was going to save Eli one or not as I was, 485 00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:55,440 it was leaving my mouth. 486 00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:57,440 Oh, my God. Wow. 487 00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:02,000 But that being said, if I had to choose between which of these two pantheons to worship, 488 00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:04,000 I would probably pick the Chaos Gods. 489 00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:06,000 That's why I believe Hal won the debate. 490 00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:08,000 I would pick the Chaos Gods. 491 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:10,000 Yeah, I'd probably bet it's just to serve. 492 00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:14,000 I think I think it's an end result of either is insanity. 493 00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:16,240 It's just a matter of is it like the cool and sin or the 494 00:45:16,240 --> 00:45:20,400 you get, you know, corn, I can cut a building in half with a flick of my wrist, 495 00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:25,360 or is it I'm just insane and my brain is now mashed potatoes? 496 00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:27,680 Or have you seen too much of the truth of the universe? 497 00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:29,680 So to everyone, I see that mad. 498 00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:32,480 Yeah, that's that is something I get. 499 00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:34,880 I guess, you know, seems to be fair, it does kind of do that. 500 00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:37,520 But seems also let's cast some pretty big fireballs. 501 00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:40,240 So, yeah, that was a good point by Eli there. 502 00:45:40,240 --> 00:45:43,920 Yeah, the boons, because my boons are like, they're kind of cool. 503 00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:47,920 Like you can do some magic stuff, you can summon things and you can obviously gain 504 00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:49,440 knowledge and immortality. 505 00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:54,320 But then, I mean, you can't cut a building in half or like suddenly grow 506 00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:59,680 mushrooms from your like foot or something and then just like waltz in and infect things, 507 00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:00,720 you know, can't do that. 508 00:46:00,720 --> 00:46:03,840 Which might not sound like much of a superpower, but whenever when you're 509 00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:06,480 fighting suddenly develops Omega Ebola. 510 00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:11,520 Perhaps better than you might think initially. 511 00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:14,320 Fecal Jackson Pollock, the superpower. 512 00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:14,880 Oh Christ. 513 00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:22,960 But I hope everyone had a I hope you two had a nice good time, a nice good debate. 514 00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:23,760 It was good. 515 00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:24,320 It was good. 516 00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:27,280 And I hope the audience enjoyed listening. 517 00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:29,840 As we said, let us know who you think won in the comments. 518 00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:35,120 Let us know any points we might have missed to bring up any questions you might have. 519 00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:38,320 Maybe we can see keep it going a little bit in the comments. 520 00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:45,360 Remember that it took the Eldar 65 million years to finally make a Chaos God. 521 00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:46,880 There's a humanity about five minutes. 522 00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:48,640 So Eldar superiority. 523 00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:52,160 Well, it sounds like we're just better at making Chaos Gods. 524 00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:54,320 Yeah, I don't think that's something you want to be better at. 525 00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:55,680 I'm just going to be honest with you. 526 00:46:56,720 --> 00:46:58,000 Deadass, my guy. 527 00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:00,960 Necrons are going to win in the end anyways. 528 00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:02,640 That's the orcs clearly. 529 00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:05,520 That's where most likely Tyranids. 530 00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:08,560 It's not. 531 00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:10,560 I hate it, but it will be turned it. 532 00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:17,280 And of course, remember to hit that fancy smash that motherfucking like button. 533 00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:17,760 What's this? 534 00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:22,800 And hit that sub hit the bell ring the bell. 535 00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:23,760 Hit the gritty on the way to the. 536 00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:28,400 Remember hashtag free sleepy. 537 00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:32,080 Lumi, if you're watching this, I would love to play Battlefleet Gothic with you. 538 00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:36,880 I told you I was going to do it. 539 00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:37,600 I missed whatever. 540 00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:39,600 I missed Pakistan. 541 00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:41,600 What's going on? 542 00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:43,600 PPP. 543 00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:45,600 Oh, my God. 544 00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:47,600 And I. 545 00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:50,880 Thank you all for coming. 546 00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:52,080 We'll have a good time. 547 00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:55,360 And yeah, have a good have a good one, everyone. 548 00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:55,920 Take care. 549 00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:56,400 Peace. 550 00:47:56,400 --> 00:48:06,400 I love you. 551 00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:36,400 Yeah.