Hello and welcome to Dive in with (e)me, a show
by the Fondation EME in which we talk about
the benefits of music in all the languages of
the country. Thank you to Radio ARA for giving
us the opportunity to present the various advantages
of music on their airwaves. Today's episode is
called Breaking Barriers with Opera. We're exploring
pOpera, a participatory opera project by Fondation
EME that invites refugees and Luxembourg residents
to create an opera together. Our guest today
is Lenny, one of the participants who is passionate
about creating spaces where words and music can
become bridges for dialogue and transformation.
Welcome Lenny and thank you for being with us
today. Thank you for inviting me. I'm very happy
to be here today. We are too. So we'll start
right away with the first segment of this show,
which is the sound check -in. We ask all our
guests about their current favorite music. It
can be an orchestra, a band, a musician or a
genre, illustrated by a song that we then play
for our listeners. So Lenny, what's your music
of the moment? Well, more than being the music
of the moment, I would say, for me, music is
just part of my history. Since I'm a kid and
I'm exposed to music, my father wanted to be
a pianist, so he was all the time playing us
and we were all listening to opera music, classical
music, which we hated, actually, like my brother
and I, when we were kids. Now I can understand
the beauty of it. And then my mother was this,
you know, like old pop songs of the 80s, these
love songs and stuff. But then it was also I
was playing to create my own radio shows and
then my brother shared with me all his electronic
music that he loved and then my cousins rock
music so everything for me is like every genre
has a story and for me stories are the most important
thing in the world and this is why I thought
that it would be great today to share a song
that represents the story that we're going to
talk about today which is about voices you know
like we will talk about voices today which is
for me the most important thing that we
explore in pOpera amongst other things but
well i will go further afterwards but the
point is that i would like to use this moment
as a tribute to our voices because I believe
that this is one of the most powerful weapons
or tools that we have and so the name of this
song is actually Tu Voz which means your voice
and it was also very important for me to
share my roots. I'm Mexican, therefore this song
is from Lila Downs and La Sonora Santanera. And
also Lila Downs has been a great reference for
helping immigrants and people that hasn't been
allowed to speak, you know? And this is why for
me it's so important today also to make a tribute
to all these people that are using their voices
to give the power to others to express themselves
and that for any reason they are speechless and
uh and yeah and the song is with the most
beautiful metaphor so i love it so please uh
yes that's pretty lovely so that's why i'm gonna
play it right away Alright Lenny, it's time to
play our little game called... Cliché or Reality.
We've all heard people make big statements about
opera, singing or collaborative art projects.
You know, the ones that sound like absolute truth.
But are they true? Or just clichés that need
to be challenged? I'm going to read a few of
these common phrases and you tell us. Is it a
cliché or does it reflect your experience in
opera? Feel free to agree, disagree or share
a story that proves them right or wrong. So,
cliché number one. Opera is too difficult for
people who aren't musicians. Well, I would say
that it's perfectly wrong. And this is the magic
of opera, because here we will all experience
that opera is a genre. just like any other that
can be sang or played or experienced in any way,
that it's not complicated. It's exactly the opposite.
They're making it so easy for us that you would
never thought that you would have been able to
sing opera so easily, you know? So it's, yeah,
it's wrong. And cliché number two. If you don't
have a trained voice, you can't be part of an
opera. Well, it's part of the same. It makes
me think about, at some point, I wanted to start
drawing. Well, because I was studying architecture,
so I needed to draw. And I was so bad at it,
but really so, so bad at it that all my classmates
were laughing at me. And then I started trying
on my own and I joined some classes with one
woman that said like, why does people have good
handwriting? Well, they're more or less better
handwriting, but it's because you must do it.
This is not something that you think about or
not. You know that you must learn to write and
then you just do it. So it's kind of the same
with drawing. So if we wouldn't have these...
need to make it beautiful or whatever then we
would have just done it and it's exactly the
same with singing you know like we have all these
stereotypes and all these ideas that oh no my
voice is not beautiful oh no i don't sing nice
and and this is not truth the only thing that
you need to do is to try it and rehearse it and
experience it you know because we all have beautiful
voices we all have beautiful tones rhythms and
yeah we just need to try and experience it Cliché
number 3. People from different cultures can't
really create together. The language barrier
makes it too difficult. Absolutely super wrong.
And this is also another magical thing about
pOpera. And we need also to think about that
communication does not happen only with... the
language, you know? It's not only about what
we say. We communicate with our eyes, we communicate
with our gestures, we communicate with our hands,
we communicate with our body in general, you
know? And with the tone of our voices, with everything.
So the language is just like the last step of
the process of the communication. And it's amazing
what we can do when we have this language barrier,
because then we need to use our creativity in
order to be able to express ourselves. So sometimes,
yes, we would make mimics, or we would mix our
own languages. And then you laugh a lot. Well,
I laugh a lot about it. I constantly mix Spanish,
and then I'm learning Luxembourgish and French
and everything. and then it's so crazy. The part
that is more important is that when we speak
with our hearts, everyone can understand what
you are saying. So, and regardless which language
are you speaking. So, no, wrong. We can communicate
and there's no language barrier is exactly the
opposite. Yeah, what they need to understand
that it's like voice is like an accessory, you
know, like you don't need it to be part of this
project and you just need to want to participate
like you said yeah and show off yourself yeah
that's right be bold yeah and um for the last
cliché cliché number four participatory art projects
are nice but they don't really make a difference
in people's lives Yeah, with this one, I couldn't
be more disagree. I'm happy that you disagree. We're
on the same page. We understand each other. So
participatory community projects, I would say
that are the core of societies. For me, this
is the perfect place where we can have a safe
space to explore our voices, to explore who we
are, to explore different cultures and to coexist
in peace and with respect, you know. It's very
interesting, like we all come from very different
backgrounds, but here what is very touchful from
pOpera is that most of us or many of us, we're
immigrants. So we're here on our own and some
of us came like because we wanted to but there
are others that came here because they didn't
have any other choice and the refugees here so
this is a place where you can connect when where
you can find a place like a shelter like an emotional
shelter you know like in a place where you can
exchange with others to find like -minded people
that like you are willing to explore the world
in a different way, through a different basis,
through a different... perception and to understand
that we don't need the barriers, that we need
to take them away, to light up all these bridges
that are saying that we're different, that we
cannot coexist together, that we have to fight
each other. So, community projects are the perfect
place to gather and to have like this beautiful
utopia. try to make the best at least for two
hours per week yeah and they make a great popera
family now and we expect 100 of them it's a huge
family yeah that will be a huge gathering of
the family yeah So now that we've talked about
clichés, let's dive into your personal experience
with pOpera. We'd love for our listeners to get
a real sense of what it feels like to be a part
of this project. So tell us, how did you first
come across the pOpera project and what made
you want to be a part of this? Well, I... I literally
have no idea how I ended up finding Fondation
EME. Like really, like I had two friends that
know that I love singing and they said like,
oh, we should sing together and we should find
some classes or whatever. So I just literally
dig in Internet. I don't even remember the words
that I used, you know? But then at some point
I found that the rehearsals were going to start
that same week. So I was like, no, I need to
get this, so I write this email. And I was like,
yeah, I would like to participate. And they were
not answering. And I was so anxious because I
was like, I don't want to miss it. So this is
how I ended up in the project and the reason
why I wanted to join is because I don't know
that day was a very magical day for me and I
was not in the mood for sharing with people or
anything I was more like in this introspective
Yeah, they and but then it was like a full moon
and then the moon was and I love the moon and
the moon was illuminating the room that we
were rehearsing in and it was very beautiful
because actually we never sang that day but it
was we were just playing with the shakers and
making rhythms and stuff but then again it was
a different way to communicate together and it
was so magical that I said okay I need to stay
here, you know, and yeah, so this is
how I stayed And when you first met the other
participants, so that same night you see, what
was your first impression? Well, yeah, I must
say the truth, but there's a beautiful saying
that says that we don't see what's out there,
but we see what's in. our us you know like a
well the it's like a no vemos lo que lo que lo
que es sino lo que somos so as i said that
day was a very weird day for me when they arrived
there i was like oh this is so They're all
so weird. This is all so... Don't mess with me.
I don't know why I felt like very weird. Then
again, I guess it was the full moon or I don't
know, but everything was so weird. Then at some
point I just started laughing because they also
said like that you gather with people that are
like you, you know, like you ended up... So then
I said like... wow, then how weird am I as well,
you know? So then I said like, okay, let's go.
But no, afterwards I discovered like so beautiful
people, you know, they all have these beautiful
hearts with beautiful experiences and they're
all so generous, so loving, so careful. I really
love the team that we have created. And yeah,
as you said, it's a family, you know, like it's
a very interesting dynamic and I really loved
it. And taking part in a project like this often
changes people in some way. So what do you feel
you've discovered about yourself along the way?
For me... I always had the idea that canon singing
was impossible, that was super hard because well
I'm also an actress and then so during the singing
classes all the time that there was canon singing
I was like no this is so hard I cannot because
then I followed the other voices and then I cannot
and so I always had this barrier on my own that
it was so complicated and then when I joined
and we were on this summer phase that we needed
to to sing and kind of I was like no again my
nightmare you know like this is I cannot do this
and then at some point I knew because I was always
following one beautiful voice of other of the
participants so I was always following and then
that day she was not there so I was like no way
what am I going to do yes exactly I'm gonna miss
it you know and then at some point I said like
you know what you know the song you know the
music you have been rehearsing this like for
i don't know how long just do it you know it
do it trust yourself and know that you can
do this and i did it you know and and then i
didn't follow any other voice but my own and
and yeah it's it's so it's again a metaphor you
know to say like uh we need to trust in ourselves
we need to trust in our out in our power we need
to trust in our voices we need to trust who we
are, and share it with the world. And yeah, I
would say this is one of the beautiful things
that make me remember, let's say, for my life.
Opera brings together several disciplines, like
singing, theatre, staging. Which one touched
you the most? I think that... I mean, singing,
theatre, everything, I love it. I always say
I really sing everywhere, all the time, and I'm
passionate about the theatre, I'm an actress,
you know? But I would say that the thing, or
the discipline... that touches me the most is
the sociology or the psychology, you know, like
to observe everyone there with their, yeah, with
who they are and how to express themselves, how
they share their ideas, their dreams, their voices,
you know, and their bodies, like everything.
So I would say like this is the part that triggers
me the most, that passionate myself the most
about the project. That was my question. You
know, how would you describe the atmosphere within
the group? But I think you've answered quite
well. But if you need to... Yeah, it seems like
you said a big family. Now you're all friends.
See, and it's... I don't know, like every hearse,
it's so beautiful, we experience different things.
And one thing that I also haven't said, I'm very
passionate about gastronomy, you know, like for
me, that's the other most beautiful thing in
the world, like music, gastronomy and nature
are my tops. And this is also a place where sometimes
people come and share their own dishes, you know,
from their own cultures. So for me, there's no
better place on earth, a space where I can listen
and or do music while I'm eating something from
someone that had the generosity to share it with
the rest of the group. So yeah, I don't know
what else can I say but... You must have so many
memories from the rehearsals. Is there one moment
funny, moving, surprising even that you'll never
forget? See, there were two. One was... Well,
actually both of them were during the summer
phase. So we were once rehearsing the songs that
we were going to sing. And we went out, like
in the street, just to sing, because we were
going to sing in the streets, you know, in Luxembourg.
So we did it. And then there was this woman that
just stepped outside in the balcony. And then
we ended up sharing a serenade to her and it
was so beautiful you know and then other people
went out also to the balcony and this woman was
saying that she didn't because at some point
Paolo said like oh now sing with us you know
and she was like no no no I don't know how to
sing and then well she ended up doing it and
she had so like this beautiful voice again so
it was it was very touching it was very moving
it was yeah it was very beautiful that that she
joined us and that she enjoyed the moment as
much as we did and she must come If she's listening
to me, please come because you have a very beautiful
voice. Come and join us. And the other one is
this is there was extremely moving because there
was one of the participants couldn't speak any
of the languages. Let's say like no English,
no, no French, no just. mini bit of German, you
know, like the nothing. It was like very complicated.
And then at some point he realized that another
participant was able to speak his own language.
And they have. So when he found it out, they
just came in the middle of the classroom
and and they hugged each other so beautifully.
You know, it was. This was all this joy from
him to say, like, oh, I finally found someone
that can listen to me and that can understand
me. I'm not alone. Yes, exactly. I'm not alone.
But what was shocking is that afterwards, one
of them said, like, yeah, I mean, at this moment
we can hug each other. But if we were back in
our countries, we would have been talked to
hate each other. And for me, that was like, I
got again like this. Goosebumps everywhere like
it's incredible how We can change the
perspective of who we are and who is each other
depending on the place that we are So yeah, that's
something that I will never forget and do you
feel that this experience brought you closer to
other cultures and people definitely This
is what we're here for to understand other
people's cultures and ideas and backgrounds and
hearts and souls and you know like of course
so music is there I would say like the excuse
the excuse to gather together but deep down the
project is to integrate ourselves and to gather
together through music which is amazing you know
And finally, if someone was thinking about joining
pOpera, what would you tell them to convince
them to jump in, you know? Well, I already told
you a lot. Yeah, I think they have no excuse,
you know? No, no, no, but there's something very,
very important that I haven't shared and it's
the extraordinary team that we have and the extraordinary
artists that are uh backing us in this in in
this journey you know so we have team woman and
Antoine Pohu from from the creating the music then we
have uh well the luxembourgish uh philharmonie
and then we have the pretty cantor is the conservatoire
de la ville de luxembourg the community choir
we have evan baumers which is the director and
then pierre nimes the direction the direction
of the choir then Stephany or there the surprise
that we all know, coaching the vocal, as well
as Nicola Billaux, coaching also vocally. Then
we have Esgi, I'm sorry for the, I don't know
how to pronounce it, Esgi Gokturk, I wish I didn't
say that wrong, but for the repetition, Amit Dhuri
for the mediation, extraordinary Paolo Lameiro
for the conception and the direction artistic,
and Nisha Bondi, the Miss innocent, Mariana Pinto
de Souza, the choreographer, and and the assistance
on The Mist and the Sand. And of course, we have
you, we have Sarah Bergdoll, we have Sara Lehmann
from Fondation EME, and all the people from Fondation
EME, and all the people from the Philharmonie.
And we will perform on stage, on the Philharmonie.
So I don't know what else you need to... Yeah,
I'm pretty convinced, you know, right now. We
must, yeah, gather all together for this. So
to end this episode, we always ask our guests
for a recommendation, a piece of music, a book
or something connected to the project that you
think our listeners should discover. So Lenny.
What would you recommend to us or to anyone listening?
Well, during the second edition of Popera, Haitham,
a Syrian Kurdish refugee who has been part of
the project since 2023, wrote a poem that was
translated into English with the help of Abdullah
Karim Alim and recited during the 2024 performance.
The most beautiful thing is that this poem has
been published in issue one of the Les cahiers,
luxembourgeois, alongside the Zichen, which
is the response written by Antoine Pohu, and
who's, as I said, the extraordinary librettist
of the project. So you can now order this. the
book in Les Cahiers luxembourgois that Elio.
And this poem is about the feeling of displacement
and abandoning and living in a place where you
don't feel at home. And I won't read it because
I want you to have the experience on your own
to feel it and to go through each word. But I
really recommend that you can go and get it.
So thank you Lenny for joining us today. Thank
you to all our listeners for tuning in. Dive
in with (e)me is a show by Fondation EME, supported
by André Losch Fondation. Thank you to Radio
ARA for allowing us to broadcast this show
and for supporting us on this journey. And finally,
thanks to Taipan for the wonderful jingle. You
can listen to Dive in with (e)me on all streaming
platforms and once a month on Radio ARA Airways.
See you soon!