WEBVTT

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Firstly, what happened to the weather? Like I

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came to Cairns thinking this was going to be

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lovely and warm and guess I'm going to have to

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come back. What we're gonna do today is gonna

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be a little bit different to what we did yesterday.

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I suppose what we could have done is we could

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have gone, yesterday we looked at Ephesians chapters

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one to three, we kind of looked at the idea of

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church through God's great plan. I guess what

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we could have done today is kept that going through

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chapters four to six. But what I wanted to do

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is that something a little bit different. I'm

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gonna just focus on chapter four versus one to

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16. And we're gonna spend a little bit of time

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on that. But at the same time, I'm going to just

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talk a little bit about some of the things that

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we've learnt from the Reach Australia network

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that may help you. I've been talking to Brendan,

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he's talking about the plan to double the church.

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So there may be some things that maybe help you

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think through how that's going to work and some

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of the things you may need to navigate to do

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that. Churches sometimes will ask us to come

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in and do a consult. We usually charge the church

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to do a consult. What I'm basically doing, I'm

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gonna give you a mini consult while I'm trying

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to teach the Bible at the same time. We'll see

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how that goes. So I'm gonna pray that God will

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give us wisdom, because I may have bitten off

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more than I can chew. And yeah, the other thing

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I'm gonna say is I'm gonna work through some

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stuff and I'm gonna pause. at certain points.

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So you can ask me questions of going, yeah, but

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how does that work and how's that going to work

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for us? Because I kind of know you and we can

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kind of work through that a little bit. We'll

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see how it goes. We'll see how God has this planned.

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Let me pray. Father, forgive me if I have bitten

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off more than I can chew in preparation here

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today for my plan for today. We pray that Your

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Spirit will be at work and that He will be guiding

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us, that He will be helping us. I pray that for

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Northern Hope as a church, please we pray that

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your spirit will be at work in them as they seek

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to continue to reach more and more people through

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their ministry, through their gathering. I pray

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that you'll help me to speak your words faithfully

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and truthfully. But Father we pray that you will

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be at work in us today, that your name might

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be glorified and we pray this in Jesus name.

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What are you aiming to do as a church? It's an

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interesting question, isn't it? Because what

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are you aiming to do will define, you can't say,

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every time you say yes to something, you say

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no to something else. So why are you saying yes

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to this and not to that? It will really be defined

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by what you want to do as a church. And there'll

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be all sorts of different, I mean, I know who

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I'm talking to. I've talked to you over the last

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24 hours. So I know when I'm saying this, it's

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like, you're on a boat. And those of you, I know

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there are some people in this room who know this

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better than I do, but when you're on a boat,

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you've got the wind pushing you one way, you've

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got your swell pushing you another way, you've

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got the tides going a different direction, and

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then there's the direction you wanna go. And

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if you just kind of focus on what's going on

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in the boat, You're going to end up here, you're

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going to end up on a reef because you need something

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that's going to help you keep going in that direction.

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Something's going to focus you there. On a boat,

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it's a compass or it's a fixed point on land.

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What is that for you as a church? Because like

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I said, you've got to work out what you, every

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time you say yes to something, you're saying

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no to something else. And why are you saying

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yes to that and no to that? And it's really important

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that you, as a church, are unified on that because

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it's where fights come up. Why are we doing this

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and not doing this? I love that ministry. I want

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that ministry. Why did we say no to that? And

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it's important that not just how... I'm going

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to try and give you a picture of what it's like

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as the church in principle, but I'm also going

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to give you a bunch of questions that you will

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need to work through as a church here in Cairns.

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How are you going to answer these questions?

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What are you aiming for? What is that guiding

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force that's going to be there? It's a little

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bit like, you know, and again we can get lost

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in this a little bit with all the detail. Soccer

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teams. Soccer teams actually understand what

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soccer is about. Now soccer teams do all sorts

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of different things and you know even on the

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team people will be kicking the ball the goalie

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will know what he's doing some are defending

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some are kicking that sort of thing but everyone's

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trying to do the same thing and that is get the

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ball in the goal right that's and i remember

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talking to someone i was trying to explain ministry

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and i think he thought that ministry was oh we

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kick the ball around but somebody else up the

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end kicks the ball in the goal and going no we're

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all aiming to do that Or with maths. Again, you

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can do lots of different things with maths. I

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tried to pick something else that was there.

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Maths. You can do all sorts of different things

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with maths and you can open books, read things,

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do all that. But what is it that you're actually

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aiming to do is to learn maths. What are you

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aiming to do as a church? What's the thing? Because

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that will also determine not just what you say

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yes to and what you say no to, but what you celebrate.

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What does every soccer team celebrate? When I

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score the goal, yeah, they do that and you know

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World Cup they do the big celebrations or something

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or if you're watching NRL Apparently the thing

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is you got to do that. I don't I'm not really

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sure what that's about Apparently someone scored

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a try didn't do that and they signed a question

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whether that was a real try or not But they celebrate

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right? What do you celebrate? What's that moment

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of celebration? But you can get distracted by

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all these other different things. Even on a soccer

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team, you know, you'll have a barbecue, you'll

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have the uniforms, you'll have this, you'll have

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that, but if you spend all your time trying to

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arrange all of that and you forget that it's

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actually all about helping the team score the

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goal, it's kind of what's the point? And churches,

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I think, can get distracted by all sorts of different

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things along the way. What is it that we're actually

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aiming to do? Well, Ephesians 4 talks about,

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there are three, there's two things, but I'm

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adding a third one in there. Growing up, That's

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what it's about. Growing up as disciples and

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growing up as a community. Growing up as disciples,

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what is a grown -up disciple? What is a Christian

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disciple? Because isn't that what Jesus asked

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us to do? Therefore go into all the world and

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make disciples. It's interesting, he also then

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goes, baptizing them in the name of the Father,

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Son and Holy Spirit. We go, oh that's great,

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Trinity, that's good, but you forget the fact,

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baptizing, that is including them into the people

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of God, including them into the church. And again,

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we can get distracted by this. If I go to my

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daughter Evie and I say, hey Evie, go clean your

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room. and then I come back to her and go, did

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you clean your room? She goes, well no, I spent

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a bit of time on YouTube trying to work out how

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to clean my room and then I rang my friends and

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I asked them how they clean their room and then

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apparently there's some books on reading on how

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to clean your room so I downloaded those and

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I had a look at those and you know there's a

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seminar on how to clean your room and I went

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to that and I went, yeah but did you actually

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clean your room? She went, oh no, it's too busy.

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Right, and that's what we can do. We get so caught

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up on everything else, too busy to actually do

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the one thing which is go and make disciples.

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grow as disciples. Let's have a look. So if you've

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got your Bible open there, let's have a look

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at Ephesians chapter one. Sorry, chapter four,

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verse one. As a prisoner for the Lord, I urge

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you to live a life worthy of the calling you

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have received. If there is nothing else that

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you remember today, that is the thing. Live a

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life worthy of the calling you have received.

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This is the great thing about Christianity. It's

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not about, if I can just do enough, enough, enough,

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then I'll reach Nirvana or I'll go to the whatever,

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heaven or whatever. If I just do enough, he goes,

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no, Jesus did it for you. You just gotta live

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it out. You know how our society keeps saying,

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just be true to you? Actually, they're right.

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It's just the true to you is what Jesus has done

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for you. So live that out. Live out the grace

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you've been given. God has called you to be these

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people, so live that out. Isn't that great to

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just, that's what we need to do? And how often,

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the rest of the chapter we'll also talk about.

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So don't be like this, be like this, because

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we keep going back to our old patterns, our old

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kind of, because our, you know, your old shoes,

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they're a bit more comfortable, and Jesus has

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given you new shoes, and you've kind of got to

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break them in. Live out your new life, the calling

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that God has given you. Be you. And then he goes

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on, what does that look like? Verse two, be patient,

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humble, gentle, bearing one another in love.

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It's just taking on the family traits of God

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at this point of time, isn't it? Isn't that what

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he's showing to us? Isn't that what he is as

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a father to us? Yes, you're part of the family.

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Take on the family traits. Take on the family

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traditions. Keeping in mind, we worship a God.

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who washes people's feet. Sorry, I'm going to

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go off on a few tangents, so just keep that in

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mind as we go through. John chapter 13. There's

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a moment in there, Jesus has gathered his disciples,

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13 to 17, there's this long dinner they have

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together. But at the start of chapter 13, he

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says, Jesus knew that the Father put all things

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under his feet. Like he was literally... No teenagers

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here. He's literally the 15 -year -old teenager

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who goes, the whole universe revolves around

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me except for Jesus, it's actually true. He's

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about to become the center of the universe. What's

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the next words? So, he picked up his towel and

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washes the disciples feet. Isn't that nice? That's

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what our God is like and that's what we need

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to be following. Take on the family traditions.

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I'm going to keep going. Verse three, you'll

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be glad to know I'm not doing every verse like

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this, but make every effort to keep the unity

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of the Spirit through the bond of peace. There

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is one body and one Spirit just as you were called,

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one hope to which you were called, one Lord,

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one faith, one baptism, one God and Father over

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all who is over all and through all. We saw this

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yesterday for those who are here, we saw how

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God is creating one new people. And it is we

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express that as we come together, but also as

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we see other churches as well. Now I realize

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a lot of churches feel the guilt of why are we

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not working together more and why can't we, we

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need to, there's a guilt of we need to create

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more unity. Let me alleviate you of that guilt.

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You already have that unity. Jesus has given

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you that. You don't need to create the unity

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between different churches. You might need to

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express that. Now, if I can speak as an outsider,

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I realize I'm an outsider, but I've spoken to

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a number of you, and I realize the relationship

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between you and the Good Shepherd, how is that

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kind of working? And some of you are going, I

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feel like we need to have a closer unity. I want

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to encourage you as an outsider, and I realize

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I am an outsider. Just be patient. That unity

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actually, Jesus has already created that unity,

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but it may take you some time. There's some stuff

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that needs to just happen, and time will do that.

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The Spirit will do that. But don't feel the guilt

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that you need to create that. It's already been

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created for you in Jesus. But we do need to keep

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that unity there. Let me jump down to verse 14.

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Then we will no longer be infants tossed back

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and forth in the waves blown here and there by

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every wind of teaching and by the cunning and

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craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.

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Instead we will be speaking the truth in love

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and we will in all things grow up into Him who

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is the head that is Christ. Stable and not moved.

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Every so often there's a new trend that comes

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out around Christianity everyone goes, ah we've

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all got it wrong but it's alright I'm here to

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save you. And some of you who are a little bit

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older, you've seen these come and go, haven't

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you? I've seen them come and go. And to sort

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of not get panicked by this, but just to say,

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well, let's just slow down. Let's just see if

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it is true. Before we jump on every trend that

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comes along, and I wanna say that includes anything

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you see from Reach Australia. and go, oh well,

00:12:43.649 --> 00:12:45.029
reach Australia, they've got the magic bullet.

00:12:45.210 --> 00:12:47.529
I'm going, actually, no we don't. We're trying

00:12:47.529 --> 00:12:50.850
to encourage you, we're trying to help you, particularly

00:12:50.850 --> 00:12:54.529
what we see from the scriptures and what we understand

00:12:54.529 --> 00:12:58.190
from churches, but just don't grab it because

00:12:58.190 --> 00:13:02.929
it's the new thing. And don't be worried when

00:13:02.929 --> 00:13:07.269
new ideas come along and batter you around. And

00:13:07.269 --> 00:13:13.289
don't be worried when persecution comes. persecution

00:13:13.289 --> 00:13:18.710
will come. One day something will happen, it'll

00:13:18.710 --> 00:13:21.029
go in the local paper, something will blow up

00:13:21.029 --> 00:13:23.750
and your name, the name of this church will be

00:13:23.750 --> 00:13:27.070
there and my guess is that there'll be a meeting

00:13:27.070 --> 00:13:29.590
and in that meeting someone will go, we need

00:13:29.590 --> 00:13:33.450
to protect the reputation of the church and I

00:13:33.450 --> 00:13:35.549
want at least one of you to ask the question,

00:13:36.730 --> 00:13:41.360
do we? Is it really about us? I mean, didn't

00:13:41.360 --> 00:13:44.240
we expect this? How about we just get on with

00:13:44.240 --> 00:13:50.399
what Jesus has told us to do? Be stable and not

00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:53.539
moved. Finally, speaking the truth in love. It's

00:13:53.539 --> 00:13:57.340
a speaking thing. We have great opportunities.

00:13:57.440 --> 00:13:59.600
I mean, we had a great opportunity there as we're

00:13:59.600 --> 00:14:01.100
talking around the fire and that sort of thing.

00:14:01.179 --> 00:14:05.799
But what do you talk about? It's great that we

00:14:05.799 --> 00:14:08.799
talk about just life, things, hearing each other's

00:14:08.799 --> 00:14:11.000
stories. I think that's great. But isn't it great

00:14:11.000 --> 00:14:14.379
to be able to tell stories of, yeah, sorry, I

00:14:14.379 --> 00:14:16.879
just realized it started to rain because you

00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:18.500
promised me such beautiful weather here, but

00:14:18.500 --> 00:14:20.799
if you're in the rain, please move around so

00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:22.799
that there's plenty of chairs up here. I know

00:14:22.799 --> 00:14:25.840
I'm not that scary. I don't bite too much, but

00:14:25.840 --> 00:14:30.159
please be dry. But why don't you just have a

00:14:30.159 --> 00:14:33.360
few things in the back of your mind? What? What

00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:35.039
are things the conversation starters that you

00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:37.039
can start to just kind of move you into the truth?

00:14:37.340 --> 00:14:39.240
One of the ones my favorite one I stole this

00:14:39.240 --> 00:14:40.740
from someone else because I steal all my best

00:14:40.740 --> 00:14:43.980
stuff from other people is What what's God teaching

00:14:43.980 --> 00:14:47.639
you at the moment? It's not a great anyone can

00:14:47.639 --> 00:14:49.139
answer that question. What's God teaching you

00:14:49.139 --> 00:14:54.000
at the moment? It might be tell me your story.

00:14:54.019 --> 00:14:56.779
How did you become a Christian? It's a great

00:14:56.779 --> 00:15:03.100
story What can I pray for you? Complicated. Anyone

00:15:03.100 --> 00:15:04.980
can ask those questions. Anyone can answer those

00:15:04.980 --> 00:15:08.720
questions. Great opportunities to just make sure

00:15:08.720 --> 00:15:10.620
we got everything. Yeah, don't lose that. That

00:15:10.620 --> 00:15:15.220
would be terrible. If this is being recorded,

00:15:15.220 --> 00:15:16.960
that's going to come out really awkwardly, isn't

00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:18.879
it? Go, what were they going to drop? And I'm

00:15:18.879 --> 00:15:20.220
not going to tell you. You should have been here.

00:15:20.820 --> 00:15:23.000
So that's the problem with listening to the recording.

00:15:24.039 --> 00:15:26.320
Yeah. We've got everyone. Everyone's dry now.

00:15:27.259 --> 00:15:29.419
Good. Is there anything over there that needs

00:15:29.419 --> 00:15:37.639
to come in? Okay, let me kind of tie a few things

00:15:37.639 --> 00:15:42.600
here together. How are you growing as a disciple?

00:15:43.379 --> 00:15:45.620
Let me put it to you. What's something that you

00:15:45.620 --> 00:15:49.740
need to work on? These are some of the things

00:15:49.740 --> 00:15:50.940
that we've talked about. Sorry, I realised I've

00:15:50.940 --> 00:15:53.220
just put these on a slide. There we go. Here

00:15:53.220 --> 00:15:56.000
is a diagram that we use from time to time to

00:15:56.000 --> 00:15:58.000
talk about a church, but I want to actually get

00:15:58.000 --> 00:16:00.220
you to think about this as a disciple. I go through

00:16:00.220 --> 00:16:02.440
this every year and I kind of look at myself

00:16:02.440 --> 00:16:05.039
and I go, am I deep in the Word? Am I spending

00:16:05.039 --> 00:16:10.259
my time in God's Word? This year I have, the

00:16:10.259 --> 00:16:13.480
two things I've committed myself to is to read

00:16:13.480 --> 00:16:15.879
the entire Bible. Well when I say read the entire

00:16:15.879 --> 00:16:17.940
Bible, someone's reading it to me on a Spotify

00:16:17.940 --> 00:16:19.980
thing, but I'm listening to the whole Bible.

00:16:20.539 --> 00:16:22.980
And I'm also trying to memorize more scripture.

00:16:23.759 --> 00:16:25.379
It's great having a Bible, it's great having

00:16:25.379 --> 00:16:29.539
it on my phone, but having it in my head. And

00:16:29.539 --> 00:16:31.899
there's a guy at our church, he's made a commitment

00:16:31.899 --> 00:16:36.600
to memorize a hundred verses. am realistic that's

00:16:36.600 --> 00:16:38.720
not going to work for me but I've got an app

00:16:38.720 --> 00:16:41.299
that's helping me do that. How are you going

00:16:41.299 --> 00:16:48.379
in being deep in the world? What about loving

00:16:48.379 --> 00:16:52.840
God? How is your way of loving God and in prayer?

00:16:55.379 --> 00:16:58.240
Yesterday I shared a little bit about my thing

00:16:58.240 --> 00:17:01.220
of understanding that God loves me as his child

00:17:01.220 --> 00:17:05.299
and learning to say that I love him. How's that

00:17:05.299 --> 00:17:09.900
going for you? What about being in community?

00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:12.059
Are there people here that you go, and now I

00:17:12.059 --> 00:17:13.619
reckon you guys, this is one of your strengths,

00:17:13.880 --> 00:17:15.980
as again, as an outsider, you guys know each

00:17:15.980 --> 00:17:17.819
other well. A lot of you have known each other

00:17:17.819 --> 00:17:21.420
for many, many years. How are you going with

00:17:21.420 --> 00:17:25.339
helping people who are new include into your

00:17:25.339 --> 00:17:30.250
community? Or are you, I mean, I don't know,

00:17:30.250 --> 00:17:32.309
I'm asking the question, but I know for some

00:17:32.309 --> 00:17:33.930
churches, get very comfortable, I know these

00:17:33.930 --> 00:17:36.289
people, I've known them for years, it's great,

00:17:36.289 --> 00:17:39.410
it's good. New people come in, that's a bit more

00:17:39.410 --> 00:17:43.069
work. But if we love them, don't we want to see

00:17:43.069 --> 00:17:47.869
them? Serving others? I might come back to that

00:17:47.869 --> 00:17:50.369
in a moment, but how are you seeking to serve?

00:17:51.950 --> 00:17:56.069
Mission. Are you praying for people who don't

00:17:56.069 --> 00:17:59.190
know Jesus, at the very least? inviting them

00:17:59.190 --> 00:18:01.970
to church. Again, I might come back to that in

00:18:01.970 --> 00:18:04.269
a moment, but here is my point. My point is we

00:18:04.269 --> 00:18:09.190
can often get into a spiritual plateau doing

00:18:09.190 --> 00:18:12.410
the same things. Our relationship with God hasn't

00:18:12.410 --> 00:18:15.170
moved. We're not growing up. We're not becoming

00:18:15.170 --> 00:18:17.529
more like Jesus. We are not living out the life

00:18:17.529 --> 00:18:20.730
that we have been called to, the grace that we've

00:18:20.730 --> 00:18:26.519
been called to. You know, sorry, I remember hearing

00:18:26.519 --> 00:18:28.460
a sermon. Actually, John Dickson, for those who

00:18:28.460 --> 00:18:30.319
know John, he was preaching just around the corner.

00:18:30.339 --> 00:18:33.900
We went there and he was preaching an evangelistic

00:18:33.900 --> 00:18:35.140
sermon. He was talking about the judgment of

00:18:35.140 --> 00:18:37.680
God and there was this big crack of thunder as

00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:39.680
he was doing this. He goes, well, that doesn't

00:18:39.680 --> 00:18:41.019
show it to you. I don't know what is. I'm just

00:18:41.019 --> 00:18:42.819
wondering what's happening with the weather and

00:18:42.819 --> 00:18:44.380
how much we can include that as we go along.

00:18:46.299 --> 00:18:50.480
But here's the point. Are you planning, it is

00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:52.079
worth actually kind of just looking at this and

00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:53.339
go, yeah, I'm reading my Bible, I'm praying.

00:18:53.440 --> 00:18:55.880
Okay, but where can you take another step? I'm

00:18:55.880 --> 00:18:57.519
not saying you need to do something for all of

00:18:57.519 --> 00:19:01.339
these and this is just a suggestion, but what's

00:19:01.339 --> 00:19:03.319
one thing you can go, I need to just push in

00:19:03.319 --> 00:19:08.240
a little bit more to living out my, not my comfortable

00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:12.440
life, but the life that God has given to me.

00:19:13.980 --> 00:19:18.180
How are we growing up as disciples? But it's

00:19:18.180 --> 00:19:21.079
not just disciples. We want to grow up as a community

00:19:21.079 --> 00:19:26.920
as well. I do want to talk a little bit about

00:19:26.920 --> 00:19:30.000
this, that we are a people. Part of that is to

00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:33.500
serve one another. We saw, we see that at the

00:19:33.500 --> 00:19:36.759
end there in, oh gee, the wind's blowing all

00:19:36.759 --> 00:19:42.160
my Bible around here, to verse six, from whom

00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:44.420
the whole body joined together by every supporting

00:19:44.420 --> 00:19:49.200
ligament grows. and built itself up in love as

00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:53.259
each part does its work. You've been given a

00:19:53.259 --> 00:19:56.460
gift. You've got to work out how you use it.

00:19:57.519 --> 00:20:01.440
But how are we actually working together as a

00:20:01.440 --> 00:20:03.539
community? And not just letting the leadership

00:20:03.539 --> 00:20:06.799
thing, but I meant all of us. Because how we

00:20:06.799 --> 00:20:09.920
love each other, here is how Jesus puts it, a

00:20:09.920 --> 00:20:11.980
new command I give to you, that you love one

00:20:11.980 --> 00:20:13.660
another. Just as I've loved you, you must love

00:20:13.660 --> 00:20:15.579
one another. I want you to notice that last bit,

00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:17.900
by this shall all men know if you are my disciples.

00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:21.180
If someone walks in here and they're exploring

00:20:21.180 --> 00:20:24.400
Christianity, here's what we see and we see it

00:20:24.400 --> 00:20:27.579
again and again and again. We see it's not, I'm

00:20:27.579 --> 00:20:28.700
sorry, it's not going to be Brendan's preaching.

00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:30.880
It's not going to be how well they understand

00:20:30.880 --> 00:20:33.400
the Bible. They're going to be watching you.

00:20:35.400 --> 00:20:38.900
And what we saw yesterday about the glory in

00:20:38.900 --> 00:20:43.059
the church. In fact, one of the things that we've

00:20:43.059 --> 00:20:44.920
seen in some of the churches, particularly with

00:20:44.920 --> 00:20:47.079
young adults, is they come in and they see the

00:20:47.079 --> 00:20:49.099
community. They go, this is great. I want to

00:20:49.099 --> 00:20:50.819
become a Christian so I can join this community.

00:20:51.099 --> 00:20:53.039
I actually saw one guy, he gave his testimony.

00:20:53.200 --> 00:20:55.000
He said, I saw this. I said, I want to be a part

00:20:55.000 --> 00:20:56.619
of this. I'm going to become a Christian. And

00:20:56.619 --> 00:20:58.660
he went to the person who was helping him understand

00:20:58.660 --> 00:21:00.579
the gospel. He goes, I get it now. I want to

00:21:00.579 --> 00:21:02.140
become a Christian. And she said, actually, you

00:21:02.140 --> 00:21:04.420
don't. You're not ready because you don't understand

00:21:04.420 --> 00:21:08.140
who Jesus is. But he was so enamored by the community,

00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:10.160
which is on one hand a good thing. but it's got

00:21:10.160 --> 00:21:15.380
to lead us to Jesus. We need to work together.

00:21:15.519 --> 00:21:17.680
Now here's a, I haven't got a slide for this

00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:18.940
because I only thought about this, I was thinking

00:21:18.940 --> 00:21:23.599
about this this morning and the danger that you

00:21:23.599 --> 00:21:27.079
may face is that you have a great community and

00:21:27.079 --> 00:21:29.480
some of you may be sitting there going, oh if

00:21:29.480 --> 00:21:33.140
we double in size am I going to lose my community?

00:21:34.900 --> 00:21:36.660
Classic question for a church about this size,

00:21:36.720 --> 00:21:40.380
they go, Now, on one hand, I want to say, okay,

00:21:40.619 --> 00:21:42.680
what's more important, you being comfortable

00:21:42.680 --> 00:21:45.779
or reaching the lost? But I also want to say,

00:21:45.900 --> 00:21:50.460
you don't need to lose that. There are big churches,

00:21:51.480 --> 00:21:52.980
in fact, I have a friend, right, let me tell

00:21:52.980 --> 00:21:56.039
you this. I have a friend, he, again, they have

00:21:56.039 --> 00:21:59.319
a building, sorry, and they had to rebuild their

00:21:59.319 --> 00:22:00.940
building because it was too big and he was explaining

00:22:00.940 --> 00:22:04.430
to some one of his people, he said, we need to

00:22:04.430 --> 00:22:06.549
rebuild the building because uh the church is

00:22:06.549 --> 00:22:08.190
too big she goes that's not too big there's only

00:22:08.190 --> 00:22:10.369
you know like it's it's a small church she goes

00:22:10.369 --> 00:22:12.750
actually there's a thousand people who meet here

00:22:12.750 --> 00:22:16.750
in this church she's that's not true and he said

00:22:16.750 --> 00:22:18.109
yeah it is and he went through and he showed

00:22:18.109 --> 00:22:20.109
the numbers she goes but it doesn't feel like

00:22:20.109 --> 00:22:24.950
it's a big church he goes yeah that's right so

00:22:24.950 --> 00:22:28.509
you can have a big church and it can feel disconnected

00:22:28.509 --> 00:22:31.690
and you can have a small church and you feel

00:22:31.690 --> 00:22:34.539
like everyone's connected But you can also have

00:22:34.539 --> 00:22:36.279
a small church and feel like no one's connected.

00:22:37.039 --> 00:22:39.460
And you can have a big church and feel like everyone's

00:22:39.460 --> 00:22:41.480
connected. And here is the secret, right? Here's

00:22:41.480 --> 00:22:43.019
a secret source. You go, how do I get to that

00:22:43.019 --> 00:22:46.720
point? It's the one another's. It's how do you

00:22:46.720 --> 00:22:49.720
love one another and keeping that loving one

00:22:49.720 --> 00:22:52.039
another through that. that process as you grow.

00:22:52.380 --> 00:22:54.599
So the more you learn to love one another, don't

00:22:54.599 --> 00:22:56.539
rely on Brendan, don't rely on the leadership,

00:22:56.660 --> 00:22:58.079
I mean it's great, I'll come back to the leadership,

00:22:58.119 --> 00:23:01.059
it'll be good, but learn to love one another.

00:23:01.319 --> 00:23:03.440
And as people come in, teach them how to love

00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:05.700
one another, and teach them to do that, and as

00:23:05.700 --> 00:23:07.420
they come in, they'll go, this is a great community,

00:23:07.480 --> 00:23:09.519
I love this community, and no one's gonna be

00:23:09.519 --> 00:23:10.960
thinking about, well it's a thousand people,

00:23:11.000 --> 00:23:12.700
I don't know everyone here, it doesn't matter,

00:23:13.000 --> 00:23:14.819
there are people here who love me and I love

00:23:14.819 --> 00:23:17.920
them, that's what matters. It's not the size.

00:23:18.409 --> 00:23:21.029
So as you grow through that growth spurt, I'm

00:23:21.029 --> 00:23:22.690
hoping, I'm praying you go through a growth spurt.

00:23:22.910 --> 00:23:24.869
As you go through that growth spurt, hold onto

00:23:24.869 --> 00:23:28.950
the one another's, but don't hold onto the size

00:23:28.950 --> 00:23:34.069
of the community. Keep it going. And what I want

00:23:34.069 --> 00:23:35.690
you to do is as you come together, there'll be

00:23:35.690 --> 00:23:37.930
this, I came across this statement last week,

00:23:38.170 --> 00:23:40.170
one of the church planters was talking about

00:23:40.170 --> 00:23:42.970
how he describes his church. He goes, I want

00:23:42.970 --> 00:23:45.069
churches that are, I want people who are stable,

00:23:45.349 --> 00:23:47.109
they're not, they are holding on to the gospel,

00:23:47.150 --> 00:23:48.809
they're not rocked around by all sorts of things,

00:23:48.809 --> 00:23:52.150
but they're also lovely, they're warm and they're

00:23:52.150 --> 00:23:54.210
loving. And so he came up with this lovely phrase

00:23:54.210 --> 00:23:57.690
of warm rocks. And you know, the closer you get,

00:23:57.690 --> 00:24:06.950
the warmer you stay. But not... distracted, not

00:24:06.950 --> 00:24:10.269
unstable, not thrown around by every wind of

00:24:10.269 --> 00:24:14.609
teaching, but warm. Isn't that a wonderful picture?

00:24:16.289 --> 00:24:24.329
Pray that you'll be warm rocks. A grown -up disciples,

00:24:25.349 --> 00:24:28.509
grown -up community. But there's one more that

00:24:28.509 --> 00:24:32.509
I want to mention here and that is the people

00:24:32.509 --> 00:24:36.029
who aren't here. Like I said, you want to double

00:24:36.029 --> 00:24:39.809
in size. Jesus describes it as sheep who are

00:24:39.809 --> 00:24:43.609
not yet in my pen. Just keep in mind, like I

00:24:43.609 --> 00:24:45.529
said, there's a five, ten, I don't know, if you're

00:24:45.529 --> 00:24:47.690
one of those people who like numbers, just keep

00:24:47.690 --> 00:24:50.089
in mind, whatever thing that you're doing, there's

00:24:50.089 --> 00:24:52.390
five percent of the people aren't here yet, and

00:24:52.390 --> 00:24:54.509
you've got to work it out. Not just the people

00:24:54.509 --> 00:24:56.250
in front of you, but the other five percent who

00:24:56.250 --> 00:24:58.190
aren't there yet, and when they come in, that's

00:24:58.190 --> 00:24:59.769
okay, there's another five percent, and just

00:24:59.769 --> 00:25:02.700
keep going along there. One of the things that,

00:25:02.940 --> 00:25:06.859
again, this is me just showing you some of the

00:25:06.859 --> 00:25:09.460
things that we've learned that may be helpful

00:25:09.460 --> 00:25:11.920
for you just to think this through. Does this

00:25:11.920 --> 00:25:13.619
diagram look, have you done this diagram before?

00:25:13.779 --> 00:25:16.619
No, okay, right. So one of the ways is just to

00:25:16.619 --> 00:25:20.059
kind of think about how do we help people who

00:25:20.059 --> 00:25:23.839
are not there, I'll try and get it the right

00:25:23.839 --> 00:25:25.920
way, who are not there, how do we get them to

00:25:25.920 --> 00:25:28.349
be a part of our community? And sometimes it's

00:25:28.349 --> 00:25:30.250
helpful just to kind of break things down along

00:25:30.250 --> 00:25:31.750
the way, just so that we're making sure that

00:25:31.750 --> 00:25:34.250
works. One of the things that I see is when people

00:25:34.250 --> 00:25:36.869
come in, I go to churches, they go, oh, we are

00:25:36.869 --> 00:25:38.650
a very welcoming church. And I go, okay, tell

00:25:38.650 --> 00:25:40.509
me about that. And they go, we have someone at

00:25:40.509 --> 00:25:42.450
the door, they give them a piece of paper, we

00:25:42.450 --> 00:25:46.789
talk to them. And I go, and then what? And they

00:25:46.789 --> 00:25:50.109
are good things. Gotta do that, right? But if

00:25:50.109 --> 00:25:51.869
you want someone to join your community, you're

00:25:51.869 --> 00:25:53.509
gonna have to actually do something else along

00:25:53.509 --> 00:25:55.529
the way. Part of that is to work out, are they,

00:25:55.529 --> 00:25:57.200
are they? Are they Christian? Are they not Christian?

00:25:57.279 --> 00:25:59.940
How do I help them? If they're not Christian,

00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:01.480
I need to help them to understand. What does

00:26:01.480 --> 00:26:04.500
it mean to know Jesus? So if someone comes into

00:26:04.500 --> 00:26:06.660
your church, this is a question you need to answer.

00:26:07.380 --> 00:26:10.960
If someone comes into your church, what's the

00:26:10.960 --> 00:26:12.819
mechanism that you've got to help them to understand

00:26:12.819 --> 00:26:17.339
who Jesus is? Now if the answer is, I'll introduce

00:26:17.339 --> 00:26:20.519
them to Brendan, that's not really going to work

00:26:20.519 --> 00:26:22.900
for you. Because what happens if Brendan gets,

00:26:22.900 --> 00:26:24.400
I know we're in cancer, what happens if Brendan

00:26:24.400 --> 00:26:28.410
gets taken by a croc? Normally it's hit by a

00:26:28.410 --> 00:26:32.769
bus. But the problem is, there's going to be

00:26:32.769 --> 00:26:34.809
a point where there's too many people for Brendan

00:26:34.809 --> 00:26:37.809
to deal with. So you can't rely on Brendan at

00:26:37.809 --> 00:26:40.369
that point in time. What's the mechanism? Now

00:26:40.369 --> 00:26:42.890
one of the things that we've learned is that

00:26:42.890 --> 00:26:45.150
people who want to understand Christianity, because

00:26:45.150 --> 00:26:47.650
the way that Australia is at the moment, when

00:26:47.650 --> 00:26:50.490
people want to understand Jesus, it takes them

00:26:50.490 --> 00:26:54.230
some time and it takes them some people and takes

00:26:54.230 --> 00:26:57.579
prayer. and so sometimes just kind of going well

00:26:57.579 --> 00:27:00.680
Jesus died for your sins and you need to trust

00:27:00.680 --> 00:27:04.579
in him okay you're ready to go let's go it takes

00:27:04.579 --> 00:27:06.920
some time to do this and so what we found is

00:27:06.920 --> 00:27:09.460
giving them a couple of weeks of working through

00:27:09.460 --> 00:27:11.880
that and they see people go oh okay that's what

00:27:11.880 --> 00:27:13.539
it means to follow Jesus I'm not like Brendan

00:27:13.539 --> 00:27:15.579
but I am a bit like Steve so yeah okay I can

00:27:15.579 --> 00:27:18.279
get that I can see how that works and for them

00:27:18.279 --> 00:27:22.019
to go but hang on so how does You believe in

00:27:22.019 --> 00:27:23.500
the Bible. So hang on, let me get this right.

00:27:23.519 --> 00:27:26.119
So you're saying some Jewish guy who was around

00:27:26.119 --> 00:27:28.240
2 ,000 years ago on the other side of the planet

00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:31.079
said some stuff, never wrote a book, but got

00:27:31.079 --> 00:27:34.779
executed by the Romans and because of that I

00:27:34.779 --> 00:27:37.960
am now God's child. Is that what you're saying?

00:27:38.740 --> 00:27:41.359
Well, yeah, and it sounds weird, doesn't it?

00:27:41.539 --> 00:27:42.940
And they've got to kind of break all of that

00:27:42.940 --> 00:27:45.000
down. So I want to ask you, how are you kind

00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:49.990
of helping them understand the gospel? converted

00:27:49.990 --> 00:27:52.710
thing. And then actually there's a whole bunch

00:27:52.710 --> 00:27:54.750
of stuff there where someone comes into church,

00:27:54.950 --> 00:27:57.549
maybe this is you, and they're going, what's,

00:27:57.569 --> 00:27:59.890
why do you meet on Sundays? Why are we singing?

00:28:00.849 --> 00:28:02.650
What's this small group thing that you've got

00:28:02.650 --> 00:28:05.789
going? Why are we having family camp? Like there's

00:28:05.789 --> 00:28:07.430
a whole bunch of things where we just do, we've

00:28:07.430 --> 00:28:09.230
done for years and years and they just go, I

00:28:09.230 --> 00:28:11.470
don't understand how that works. Again, how are

00:28:11.470 --> 00:28:15.109
you helping them? I also want to encourage you

00:28:15.109 --> 00:28:18.009
to think about how you're helping people join

00:28:18.009 --> 00:28:20.750
your church. Let me explain what we do in our

00:28:20.750 --> 00:28:22.630
church. Our church is a bigger church, but one

00:28:22.630 --> 00:28:24.309
day you're gonna be that size, so you need to

00:28:24.309 --> 00:28:27.730
know this, so here we go. How we do it in our

00:28:27.730 --> 00:28:30.369
church is the first thing they do is they meet

00:28:30.369 --> 00:28:32.309
the minister for 15 minutes after the service.

00:28:32.369 --> 00:28:36.250
They go, if you're feeling newish, and we call

00:28:36.250 --> 00:28:39.710
it newish, They don't do a lot with marketing

00:28:39.710 --> 00:28:42.329
in our church. If you're feeling newish, go to

00:28:42.329 --> 00:28:44.410
newish and basically sit down with Dave. Dave

00:28:44.410 --> 00:28:47.069
goes, okay, here's the deal. We love Jesus and

00:28:47.069 --> 00:28:49.190
we want to see people come to know Jesus. If

00:28:49.190 --> 00:28:50.849
you're on board with that, this is a good church.

00:28:51.009 --> 00:28:53.089
If you're not on board with that, there's some

00:28:53.089 --> 00:28:55.410
other churches around. He's pretty blunt on that.

00:28:56.349 --> 00:28:58.109
Then we kind of had them a couple of weeks ago,

00:28:58.109 --> 00:29:00.430
this is how our church works. And actually what

00:29:00.430 --> 00:29:03.529
they'll do is they'll go, here's some tricky

00:29:03.529 --> 00:29:06.609
stuff that churches have different views on.

00:29:07.379 --> 00:29:10.059
so they go here is we want to be upfront with

00:29:10.059 --> 00:29:14.200
you about that I'll be clear some of that's got

00:29:14.200 --> 00:29:19.519
to do with the role of women in church divorce

00:29:19.519 --> 00:29:25.640
and remarriage how we how we sit with LGBTI kind

00:29:25.640 --> 00:29:28.119
of things and goes we're just being upfront We

00:29:28.119 --> 00:29:29.940
love everyone, we want everyone to know Jesus,

00:29:30.059 --> 00:29:32.960
this is how we think we're following Jesus. You

00:29:32.960 --> 00:29:35.000
can find their papers. But what they're doing

00:29:35.000 --> 00:29:36.140
is basically saying, if you want to join us,

00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:38.819
this is what it means. Then put them into small

00:29:38.819 --> 00:29:41.599
groups and help them along the way. Now let me

00:29:41.599 --> 00:29:43.640
just stop there for a moment. Has anyone got

00:29:43.640 --> 00:29:45.500
any questions on how that works or anything that

00:29:45.500 --> 00:29:50.240
I've missed that's there? I don't know what you're

00:29:50.240 --> 00:29:53.200
doing. So I've intentionally not asked that question.

00:29:53.240 --> 00:29:56.819
So I can't tell, yeah, we do all of that or no,

00:29:56.839 --> 00:29:58.140
actually, we haven't really thought about that

00:29:58.140 --> 00:30:00.480
or we've started doing that. I don't know. So

00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:03.420
yeah, but now's a good time to ask questions.

00:30:16.329 --> 00:30:19.230
do you have another team that they go, hey these

00:30:19.230 --> 00:30:21.809
guys are new, can you have all your days reflect

00:30:21.809 --> 00:30:23.849
them to somebody like how did you do that time?

00:30:24.089 --> 00:30:25.670
Yeah yeah I think thank you Barbara that's a

00:30:25.670 --> 00:30:27.490
really good question. Now again this is going

00:30:27.490 --> 00:30:28.730
to be slightly different for you guys because

00:30:28.730 --> 00:30:31.130
you're a slightly smaller church so and a lot

00:30:31.130 --> 00:30:37.109
you're a very highly relational church. So let

00:30:37.109 --> 00:30:39.069
me again let me tell you because we're again

00:30:39.069 --> 00:30:41.970
the problem with our church is it's a growing

00:30:41.970 --> 00:30:44.440
church, it's a bigger church. because it's grown

00:30:44.440 --> 00:30:46.819
so quickly, the relationships are not there.

00:30:47.700 --> 00:30:49.859
And so we're half of us are going, I can't even

00:30:49.859 --> 00:30:51.720
tell who's new and who's not because we're, you

00:30:51.720 --> 00:30:54.839
know, so, so Nathan, who's that guy who's does

00:30:54.839 --> 00:30:57.460
this, there's two things that he does. Sorry,

00:30:57.480 --> 00:30:59.140
there's three things, but one of them you can't

00:30:59.140 --> 00:31:01.180
do because he has a phenomenal memory. So he

00:31:01.180 --> 00:31:03.680
memorizes every single person who walks in. And

00:31:03.680 --> 00:31:05.279
if you've walked in the last six weeks, he'll

00:31:05.279 --> 00:31:06.779
remember you and remember your name and that

00:31:06.779 --> 00:31:08.319
sort of thing. And that's, that's got people

00:31:08.319 --> 00:31:10.539
coming back because but no one's like Nathan.

00:31:10.619 --> 00:31:13.509
So just ignore that one. The second thing, now

00:31:13.509 --> 00:31:15.970
there is a video on this actually, I did a video

00:31:15.970 --> 00:31:18.509
to show you this is what he does on the Reach

00:31:18.509 --> 00:31:20.549
Australia thing and I'll send it to Brendan so

00:31:20.549 --> 00:31:22.230
you can have a look. The second thing that he

00:31:22.230 --> 00:31:26.410
does is they welcome people in the door just

00:31:26.410 --> 00:31:28.710
like any other church, go hi welcome church,

00:31:28.869 --> 00:31:30.809
you know he gives them a thing, sends them through,

00:31:30.910 --> 00:31:34.230
that sort of thing. Then, because we're a bigger

00:31:34.230 --> 00:31:36.509
church, in the last song he gets his welcoming

00:31:36.509 --> 00:31:40.210
team and they stand up the back and they go okay

00:31:40.210 --> 00:31:42.779
who's new? that one that one that one and he

00:31:42.779 --> 00:31:45.299
makes sure that someone either someone on the

00:31:45.299 --> 00:31:48.039
team or every so often the team will be overwhelmed

00:31:48.039 --> 00:31:50.140
and he'll send me a text and go can you talk

00:31:50.140 --> 00:31:53.000
to the person that but what his goal is he goes

00:31:53.000 --> 00:31:55.720
in a big church they can easily get lost so i

00:31:55.720 --> 00:31:57.759
want to make sure that someone's talking to them

00:31:57.759 --> 00:32:02.160
within a minute of the service finishing uh and

00:32:02.160 --> 00:32:04.500
so he makes sure that his team is is doing that

00:32:04.500 --> 00:32:07.160
because we're a bigger church we've got a that's

00:32:07.160 --> 00:32:10.039
got to be a much more disciplined process And

00:32:10.039 --> 00:32:11.980
part of that is to kind of go, okay, we want

00:32:11.980 --> 00:32:14.980
you if you're when you're ready. Because some

00:32:14.980 --> 00:32:16.559
people take a long time before they're ready

00:32:16.559 --> 00:32:18.180
to join the community. And you know, you've got

00:32:18.180 --> 00:32:21.140
to be patient. And there's a plan. But people

00:32:21.140 --> 00:32:22.920
are messy. And they don't always stick to that

00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:25.880
plan. But that's okay. You know, we kind of get

00:32:25.880 --> 00:32:27.759
some people just jump around and you go, okay,

00:32:27.759 --> 00:32:29.339
that's great. But I just need to help you, you

00:32:29.339 --> 00:32:32.180
know, make sure that everything's there. But

00:32:32.180 --> 00:32:34.849
then we'll kind of go, hey, great it's great

00:32:34.849 --> 00:32:36.190
you want to be part of the community when you're

00:32:36.190 --> 00:32:39.049
ready here is kind of how we help you do that

00:32:39.049 --> 00:32:41.029
just to go through that process with them but

00:32:41.029 --> 00:32:43.670
by having everyone having that team at the back

00:32:43.670 --> 00:32:46.930
it's kind of made the rest of us twig oh if there's

00:32:46.930 --> 00:32:49.029
a new person i should go and talk to them so

00:32:49.029 --> 00:32:51.650
most of our people just automatically now do

00:32:51.650 --> 00:32:54.470
that and half the time i'm going hi i'm pete

00:32:54.470 --> 00:32:55.970
are you new and they go no i've been here for

00:32:55.970 --> 00:32:58.309
five years and i'm like going well welcome to

00:32:58.309 --> 00:33:01.970
church and gets a bit awkward but yeah um but

00:33:01.970 --> 00:33:05.309
it's better than not doing that Does that answer

00:33:05.309 --> 00:33:08.849
your question Barbara? But I think the key thing

00:33:08.849 --> 00:33:11.430
there is that Nathan's got a plan and you've

00:33:11.430 --> 00:33:13.329
just got to work out how do you work that plan

00:33:13.329 --> 00:33:14.910
out, how do you work that out for here. Don't

00:33:14.910 --> 00:33:16.490
do what Nathan does because he's trying to do

00:33:16.490 --> 00:33:18.730
it for a different thing. You're going, how do

00:33:18.730 --> 00:33:22.109
I get a highly relational church to make sure

00:33:22.109 --> 00:33:25.420
that when someone comes in, I mean one of the

00:33:25.420 --> 00:33:27.220
dangers that you guys might face is that when

00:33:27.220 --> 00:33:29.720
someone new comes in, you all just kind of crowd

00:33:29.720 --> 00:33:31.380
around them and they're like, oh, now I'm freaked

00:33:31.380 --> 00:33:33.799
out. But at the same time, you don't want everyone,

00:33:34.039 --> 00:33:36.259
you don't want them to be ignored. I actually

00:33:36.259 --> 00:33:39.140
reckon, yeah, if someone walks in, if someone

00:33:39.140 --> 00:33:41.440
talks to them within the first two minutes at

00:33:41.440 --> 00:33:43.920
the end of the service, and if someone contacts

00:33:43.920 --> 00:33:46.900
them within 24 hours after the service, they

00:33:46.900 --> 00:33:50.039
are, I think someone said, you've got an 80 %

00:33:50.039 --> 00:33:52.069
chance of them coming back. I don't know how

00:33:52.069 --> 00:33:53.690
they work that out. I'm just giving you the...

00:33:53.690 --> 00:33:55.509
I'm just throwing out numbers like they have

00:33:55.509 --> 00:33:58.470
some sort of authority, right? But they're probably

00:33:58.470 --> 00:34:02.069
good things to do. Any other questions? Yeah.

00:34:02.289 --> 00:34:05.329
Before you mentioned churches growing rapidly,

00:34:06.210 --> 00:34:09.690
that number, is that counted just as people coming

00:34:09.690 --> 00:34:11.909
and enjoying the community and going, I want

00:34:11.909 --> 00:34:14.429
to be a part of Jesus' life? Is that the numbers

00:34:14.429 --> 00:34:17.130
of, I have given my life and I'm here for the

00:34:17.130 --> 00:34:20.010
real reason? Yeah, that's a really great question.

00:34:20.050 --> 00:34:22.269
Sorry, what was your name? Wenita, sorry Wenita,

00:34:22.309 --> 00:34:23.670
thanks for reading the Bible yesterday, you did

00:34:23.670 --> 00:34:26.070
a great job. Yeah, there's a range of different

00:34:26.070 --> 00:34:28.989
things and so there are people, I mean there

00:34:28.989 --> 00:34:30.550
are people who are just swapping chairs on the

00:34:30.550 --> 00:34:32.349
Titanic so to speak, where you know come from

00:34:32.349 --> 00:34:34.349
one church and they go to another church and

00:34:34.349 --> 00:34:37.349
I want to kind of discourage that a little bit,

00:34:37.570 --> 00:34:40.440
like if you're... depends on why they're leaving

00:34:40.440 --> 00:34:42.039
that's a whole big thing kind of thing but if

00:34:42.039 --> 00:34:43.599
it's like oh it's a pretty good church I just

00:34:43.599 --> 00:34:46.059
like this church better I'm going yeah you don't

00:34:46.059 --> 00:34:47.880
understand what church is about stay there make

00:34:47.880 --> 00:34:52.000
your church better. There are some people who

00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:57.340
are coming to church because they are genuine

00:34:57.340 --> 00:35:00.139
inquirers about Christianity and like that's

00:35:00.139 --> 00:35:01.920
at the other end and that's yeah we want to keep

00:35:01.920 --> 00:35:03.940
encouraging them and that's great and there's

00:35:03.940 --> 00:35:06.380
been the number of people that I keep hearing

00:35:06.380 --> 00:35:10.119
around the thing where church has done nothing

00:35:10.119 --> 00:35:12.159
and there are people just walking in and they're

00:35:12.159 --> 00:35:15.280
going how awesome is that like that's great um

00:35:15.280 --> 00:35:17.199
so you've got that you've also got people who've

00:35:17.199 --> 00:35:19.860
gone oh i haven't been to church for a while

00:35:19.860 --> 00:35:24.179
and especially the covid thing uh although that's

00:35:24.179 --> 00:35:27.239
that's getting less now or they're they used

00:35:27.239 --> 00:35:30.260
to go to church they've just moved to cairns

00:35:30.260 --> 00:35:33.260
and they've gone you know what we've changed

00:35:33.260 --> 00:35:35.960
our life, it's probably time to get back to new

00:35:35.960 --> 00:35:38.099
habits and come back to church as well. And so

00:35:38.099 --> 00:35:40.820
you've kind of got that group of people as well.

00:35:40.960 --> 00:35:46.519
So you've got different people, and there are

00:35:46.519 --> 00:35:50.059
people who will come, I've got to be careful

00:35:50.059 --> 00:35:52.119
how I say this because it's being recorded, come

00:35:52.119 --> 00:35:54.639
from let's say a church of a different tribe.

00:35:55.529 --> 00:35:57.250
and they've decided, no, I want to come to a

00:35:57.250 --> 00:35:59.329
church that teaches the Bible a bit more faithfully.

00:35:59.809 --> 00:36:02.090
And I actually think you've got to treat those

00:36:02.090 --> 00:36:04.309
people slightly, I mean this is all a nice neat

00:36:04.309 --> 00:36:06.510
little thing, but actually you've got to treat

00:36:06.510 --> 00:36:09.449
each of those groups of people slightly differently

00:36:09.449 --> 00:36:12.010
to help them connect in with the community. So

00:36:12.010 --> 00:36:13.530
if you've got someone coming from another different

00:36:13.530 --> 00:36:15.929
tribe, they'll have different expectations of

00:36:15.929 --> 00:36:17.630
church, you're going, yeah that's not how we

00:36:17.630 --> 00:36:20.969
do that here, let me help you understand that.

00:36:21.849 --> 00:36:24.190
Or if you've got someone who's coming back to

00:36:24.190 --> 00:36:27.880
church, Sometimes again, there's some hurt or

00:36:27.880 --> 00:36:29.800
there's some pain there and it's actually worth

00:36:29.800 --> 00:36:32.800
kind of going through. That shouldn't have happened

00:36:32.800 --> 00:36:35.559
to you. On behalf of the church, I want to apologize

00:36:35.559 --> 00:36:38.599
and help them go through that healing process.

00:36:38.699 --> 00:36:40.139
Is that the kind of question you're asking? Yeah,

00:36:40.239 --> 00:36:43.699
okay, cool. Like I said, it'd be nice if people

00:36:43.699 --> 00:36:45.739
just went through this kind of thing, but people

00:36:45.739 --> 00:36:48.340
are messy. And so you have a plan and then you

00:36:48.340 --> 00:36:50.380
have people and you've just got to work out how

00:36:50.380 --> 00:36:54.320
those two work together. All right. Any other

00:36:54.320 --> 00:36:55.880
questions? Otherwise, I'm going to keep going.

00:36:58.179 --> 00:37:03.139
How does the growing actually happen? One is

00:37:03.139 --> 00:37:07.400
you have been given gifts, extraordinary gifts.

00:37:07.780 --> 00:37:09.559
Some of you got some great administrative gifts,

00:37:09.579 --> 00:37:11.539
some of you got some great technical gifts. I've

00:37:11.539 --> 00:37:13.780
always joked the reason why Jesus has 12 disciples

00:37:13.780 --> 00:37:15.780
is because at the Sermon on the Mount, three

00:37:15.780 --> 00:37:18.440
of them were on tech at that time, so that's

00:37:18.440 --> 00:37:22.429
a joke. Good, I'm glad we got that one. people

00:37:22.429 --> 00:37:24.650
have different gifts. I mean, when I started

00:37:24.650 --> 00:37:27.190
the church plant, I did a thing on an Excel sheet

00:37:27.190 --> 00:37:29.929
and one of the guys came to me and said, he treated

00:37:29.929 --> 00:37:32.090
me like I'd spelt my name right as a three year

00:37:32.090 --> 00:37:34.349
old. He goes, yeah, well done, Pete. You tried.

00:37:34.349 --> 00:37:36.989
That's good. That's not your software. You should

00:37:36.989 --> 00:37:39.250
never download that ever again sort of thing.

00:37:39.309 --> 00:37:41.510
And he took it over and it was great. But we've

00:37:41.510 --> 00:37:42.829
all been given different gifts. And it's one

00:37:42.829 --> 00:37:45.289
of the things that reminds us that Jesus is alive.

00:37:46.190 --> 00:37:47.769
I won't go through that in Ephesians, but you

00:37:47.769 --> 00:37:50.369
know that he has died, he's risen. And because

00:37:50.369 --> 00:37:52.980
he's risen, He gives us His Spirit and so He

00:37:52.980 --> 00:37:56.159
gives us gifts. And so you can, and I think in

00:37:56.159 --> 00:37:59.500
Australians we're not great at seeing our gifts,

00:37:59.880 --> 00:38:02.480
we're much better at seeing gifts in other people.

00:38:02.960 --> 00:38:04.840
And sometimes it's worth actually asking people,

00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:08.480
what do you think my gifts are? And people will

00:38:08.480 --> 00:38:10.159
see things in you that you don't see in yourself,

00:38:10.239 --> 00:38:11.599
it's just the Australians, that's what we're

00:38:11.599 --> 00:38:14.940
like. But we can't miss that because we're Christians.

00:38:16.139 --> 00:38:18.760
And the gifts in some cases are people, I'll

00:38:18.760 --> 00:38:21.960
come back to that in verse 11. But you see in

00:38:21.960 --> 00:38:27.480
verse two, verse seven, sorry, I should read,

00:38:27.559 --> 00:38:30.760
that's why I need my glasses. But to each one

00:38:30.760 --> 00:38:33.380
of us grace, actually the word there, the Greek

00:38:33.380 --> 00:38:36.380
word there is gifts. Grace has been given, gifts

00:38:36.380 --> 00:38:38.539
have been given as Christ apportioned it. So

00:38:38.539 --> 00:38:39.900
you've been given the right amount of gifts.

00:38:40.920 --> 00:38:43.050
Part of that is our people. and you see that

00:38:43.050 --> 00:38:45.090
in verse 11, is some He gave to be apostles,

00:38:45.130 --> 00:38:48.010
some prophets, some pastors, some teachers, some

00:38:48.010 --> 00:38:50.210
sorry, some to be evangelists, some to be pastors

00:38:50.210 --> 00:38:52.769
and teachers. Come back to that in a minute.

00:38:53.329 --> 00:38:57.309
But again, it comes back to verse 16, the whole

00:38:57.309 --> 00:38:59.750
body joined together by every supporting ligament

00:38:59.750 --> 00:39:02.090
grows and build itself up in love as each part

00:39:02.090 --> 00:39:07.869
does its work. Everyone has a part. Now, there's

00:39:07.869 --> 00:39:09.130
a couple of things you've got to keep in mind

00:39:09.130 --> 00:39:12.929
here. Not everyone has the same gift. And that's

00:39:12.929 --> 00:39:15.730
okay. And I know some people will get jealous

00:39:15.730 --> 00:39:17.449
and go, ah, they've got the upfront gift and

00:39:17.449 --> 00:39:19.869
they can do that, that's really good. Some people,

00:39:20.349 --> 00:39:23.329
everyone has a gift. It's not about whether you've

00:39:23.329 --> 00:39:25.030
got a better gift or the other. It's whether

00:39:25.030 --> 00:39:28.369
you're using your gift in love. That's what Paul

00:39:28.369 --> 00:39:30.070
was writing to the Corinthians about. He goes,

00:39:30.269 --> 00:39:31.469
yeah, you got all these great gifts, but are

00:39:31.469 --> 00:39:33.590
you loving? Are you using your gift to love?

00:39:34.570 --> 00:39:36.489
Whatever you got, use it to love those around

00:39:36.489 --> 00:39:40.210
you. But keep in mind, different people will

00:39:40.210 --> 00:39:44.360
have different capacities. I had a ministry trainee

00:39:44.360 --> 00:39:47.019
and I'm a bit more of an introvert. I got to

00:39:47.019 --> 00:39:49.880
the end of the fire thing last night and I just

00:39:49.880 --> 00:39:55.059
went, my introvert, my battery, my people battery

00:39:55.059 --> 00:39:57.980
was at E, right? I just, I can't, sorry, I can't

00:39:57.980 --> 00:40:00.639
do another conversation and Steve and Sandra

00:40:00.639 --> 00:40:04.210
are very kind, took me home. But I'm an introvert.

00:40:04.809 --> 00:40:07.690
I like time by myself. I work with this guy called

00:40:07.690 --> 00:40:11.769
Carl. He is an extreme extrovert. So I would

00:40:11.769 --> 00:40:14.429
disciple people. I meet with guys. I can meet

00:40:14.429 --> 00:40:17.130
with about five guys, one to one per week on

00:40:17.130 --> 00:40:19.349
top of everything else. And he's like, he starts

00:40:19.349 --> 00:40:23.389
with 12. And I'm like, oh, man. And then on Friday

00:40:23.389 --> 00:40:25.449
night, he has a whole bunch of people over for

00:40:25.449 --> 00:40:27.849
dinner to his place. And then on Saturday, he

00:40:27.849 --> 00:40:29.409
spends all his time with people. And then I'm

00:40:29.409 --> 00:40:31.210
like going, and it took me a while to realize.

00:40:31.530 --> 00:40:33.630
he's supposed to be my trainee but I can't keep

00:40:33.630 --> 00:40:37.030
up with him and I said and that's okay because

00:40:37.030 --> 00:40:38.750
that's the way God's made him that's the way

00:40:38.750 --> 00:40:40.949
God's gifted him and some people have different

00:40:40.949 --> 00:40:43.070
capacities I need you to keep that in mind because

00:40:43.070 --> 00:40:45.150
sometimes we get so caught you know that that

00:40:45.150 --> 00:40:49.869
thing we get we get very focused on service and

00:40:49.869 --> 00:40:52.530
some of us who have larger capacities go why

00:40:52.530 --> 00:40:57.449
is not everyone else keeping up with me and or

00:40:58.480 --> 00:41:02.340
larger capacities, we suffer from burnout. Now,

00:41:02.340 --> 00:41:04.260
actually, can I throw something to you? Sorry,

00:41:04.380 --> 00:41:06.880
you're on, Juanita. Can you get that diagram

00:41:06.880 --> 00:41:09.139
back up again for a moment? Let me just give

00:41:09.139 --> 00:41:10.880
you something that's gonna be helpful for you.

00:41:12.059 --> 00:41:14.500
Some of us will get so caught on serving and

00:41:14.500 --> 00:41:19.260
then we burn out and we get bitter. The first

00:41:19.260 --> 00:41:21.460
sign of that is, why isn't everyone doing what

00:41:21.460 --> 00:41:23.880
I'm doing? When you start thinking that, that's

00:41:23.880 --> 00:41:26.980
a red flashing light, address it. and what we'll

00:41:26.980 --> 00:41:29.539
tend to do is go, I feel like I'm doing everything,

00:41:29.739 --> 00:41:32.659
that's making me grumpy, so I'm gonna stop doing

00:41:32.659 --> 00:41:36.480
things. Because that's the problem. Actually,

00:41:36.519 --> 00:41:39.659
that's not your problem. Your problem isn't the

00:41:39.659 --> 00:41:42.199
serving others, that one. Actually, what your

00:41:42.199 --> 00:41:43.840
problem is, is the one on the other side, it's

00:41:43.840 --> 00:41:46.480
loving God. You've stopped loving God, you've

00:41:46.480 --> 00:41:48.900
spent so much time on serving, and what you actually

00:41:48.900 --> 00:41:50.639
need to do, if you're gonna step back, step back

00:41:50.639 --> 00:41:53.659
and go, how do I get my heart and my mind around

00:41:53.659 --> 00:41:57.070
loving God? because what at the moment I'm focusing

00:41:57.070 --> 00:41:59.190
on serving and that's what's burning me out.

00:41:59.489 --> 00:42:03.389
Don't step back, step into loving God. See this

00:42:03.389 --> 00:42:05.889
thing all connects together, that's why we run

00:42:05.889 --> 00:42:08.170
it the way we do. There are all these different

00:42:08.170 --> 00:42:10.469
things, they all connect together and sometimes

00:42:10.469 --> 00:42:12.730
the problem isn't on one side, it's on another

00:42:12.730 --> 00:42:15.690
side. So just keep that in mind. How am I going

00:42:15.690 --> 00:42:19.090
for time? Am I going over time? Whatever. We're

00:42:19.090 --> 00:42:20.789
going, we're going, we're going cancer on. So

00:42:20.789 --> 00:42:26.719
yep. And I don't want you to underestimate the

00:42:26.719 --> 00:42:30.179
ministry of prayer. I know some people go, oh,

00:42:30.179 --> 00:42:33.820
like physically I can't do stuff, or there are

00:42:33.820 --> 00:42:35.380
seasons that we go through, particularly if you've

00:42:35.380 --> 00:42:37.199
got young kids, and they go, my ministry is just

00:42:37.199 --> 00:42:39.440
my kids, you go, that's okay. And like I said,

00:42:39.539 --> 00:42:41.619
remember we talked about Karen yesterday, Karen

00:42:41.619 --> 00:42:43.719
just turned up, she's got two kids, and you go,

00:42:43.800 --> 00:42:45.940
yep, that's your ministry, that's you. And our

00:42:45.940 --> 00:42:48.219
ministry to you is to help you do that. different

00:42:48.219 --> 00:42:50.820
seasons, different capacities, but don't underestimate

00:42:50.820 --> 00:42:52.960
prayer is one of those ones that you can do.

00:42:53.440 --> 00:42:55.800
Don't underestimate it. Some of you may have

00:42:55.800 --> 00:42:58.400
trouble just like if you're a Kyle, sorry if

00:42:58.400 --> 00:43:02.519
you weren't here yesterday, just go with it.

00:43:02.900 --> 00:43:04.539
There's a guy called Kyle, you know Kyle can't

00:43:04.539 --> 00:43:07.639
sit still. The way that I encourage Kyle's to

00:43:07.639 --> 00:43:10.110
pray is okay, When you get up in the morning,

00:43:10.289 --> 00:43:11.849
when you put your feet on the ground, pray for

00:43:11.849 --> 00:43:14.050
someone. And then when you get your cereal out,

00:43:14.190 --> 00:43:15.869
you pray for someone, remember to pray for someone

00:43:15.869 --> 00:43:17.610
else. And when you put the milk in, remember

00:43:17.610 --> 00:43:19.730
to pray for someone else. And you just, as you're

00:43:19.730 --> 00:43:21.530
doing stuff, you go, all right, I've got to remember

00:43:21.530 --> 00:43:24.989
to pray for cereal. I don't know, it's got connected

00:43:24.989 --> 00:43:26.869
to missionary. So that's when I'm praying for

00:43:26.869 --> 00:43:30.030
missionary friends. Oh, there's one I was going

00:43:30.030 --> 00:43:32.849
to say. Sorry, just put it. thing to get I realized

00:43:32.849 --> 00:43:34.690
that could be really inappropriate so let me

00:43:34.690 --> 00:43:35.849
try something else and you know when I'm putting

00:43:35.849 --> 00:43:37.469
sugar on my cereal I don't put sugar on your

00:43:37.469 --> 00:43:39.730
cereal but when you know my wife is sweet so

00:43:39.730 --> 00:43:42.010
that's I'm gonna pray for my wife yeah just kind

00:43:42.010 --> 00:43:43.289
of you don't have to do it where you're just

00:43:43.289 --> 00:43:44.849
sitting there just work out how it works for

00:43:44.849 --> 00:43:49.849
you let me just quickly go through leaders and

00:43:49.849 --> 00:43:53.070
then I'll stop for questions there but one of

00:43:53.070 --> 00:43:56.610
the gifts we get our leaders we get Brendan's

00:43:56.610 --> 00:44:01.119
it's great but you see that they're inverse I

00:44:01.119 --> 00:44:04.139
said I'd come back to it, verse 11. Some to be

00:44:04.139 --> 00:44:07.699
apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists,

00:44:07.880 --> 00:44:10.139
some to be pastors and teachers, and I realise

00:44:10.139 --> 00:44:11.940
everyone goes, is it pastors and teachers two

00:44:11.940 --> 00:44:13.559
different things, are they the same thing? It

00:44:13.559 --> 00:44:15.639
doesn't really matter. But you'll notice, what

00:44:15.639 --> 00:44:17.739
do you notice about that? Apostles, what do they

00:44:17.739 --> 00:44:20.599
do? They wrote the New Testament. Prophets, what

00:44:20.599 --> 00:44:22.539
do they do? They wrote the Old Testament. What

00:44:22.539 --> 00:44:24.780
do evangelists do? They tell people about Jesus.

00:44:25.159 --> 00:44:28.320
What do pastors and teachers do? The leadership

00:44:28.320 --> 00:44:33.900
comes from the Word. That's why the preaching

00:44:33.900 --> 00:44:36.480
is so important. Studying the Word is so important.

00:44:36.739 --> 00:44:38.679
That's why, like I said yesterday, question time

00:44:38.679 --> 00:44:41.000
is so important because you get to come back

00:44:41.000 --> 00:44:45.360
to the Word. But what's their job? It's not just

00:44:45.360 --> 00:44:47.260
to teach the Word, verse 12, it's to prepare

00:44:47.260 --> 00:44:49.539
God's people for works of service so that the

00:44:49.539 --> 00:44:51.900
body of Christ might be built up until we all

00:44:51.900 --> 00:44:53.739
reach unity in the faith and the knowledge of

00:44:53.739 --> 00:44:56.000
the Son of God and become mature at turning to

00:44:56.000 --> 00:44:58.039
the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

00:45:00.809 --> 00:45:04.309
us working, so Brendan's job is actually not

00:45:04.309 --> 00:45:09.250
to do ministry. Some of us kind of get into the

00:45:09.250 --> 00:45:12.409
point of, oh, we give money so we can pay Brendan,

00:45:13.630 --> 00:45:15.650
and I don't think we'll ever say this out loud,

00:45:15.650 --> 00:45:16.949
but there's probably something in the back of

00:45:16.949 --> 00:45:19.789
our head going, I give money to pay Brendan so

00:45:19.789 --> 00:45:22.550
he does the ministry and I get on with my life.

00:45:23.650 --> 00:45:25.969
Yeah, no, that's not how this goes. Brendan's

00:45:25.969 --> 00:45:29.309
the coach, you're the players. So his job is

00:45:29.309 --> 00:45:32.289
to equip you for works of service. Now one of

00:45:32.289 --> 00:45:34.570
the things that we notice in Reach Australia

00:45:34.570 --> 00:45:37.730
is there are sometimes two problems with this.

00:45:38.349 --> 00:45:41.250
Sometimes the leader doesn't give responsibility.

00:45:42.150 --> 00:45:43.869
So you've got to give responsibility and take

00:45:43.869 --> 00:45:46.130
responsibility. Sometimes the leader doesn't

00:45:46.130 --> 00:45:49.050
give responsibility or the way they give responsibility

00:45:49.050 --> 00:45:50.989
is they give the responsibility but they hold

00:45:50.989 --> 00:45:52.789
onto it and they kind of micromanage it and that

00:45:52.789 --> 00:45:55.269
sort of thing. Sometimes it's like they just

00:45:55.269 --> 00:45:57.389
throw it at you and go yep, you go and do that

00:45:57.389 --> 00:45:59.469
So sometimes they just throw the responsibility

00:45:59.469 --> 00:46:02.929
and they don't do it. Well Friend of mine called

00:46:02.929 --> 00:46:05.349
Dave Moore has written a really helpful book

00:46:05.349 --> 00:46:09.059
on a couple of books on this the team leaders

00:46:09.059 --> 00:46:11.940
handbook and the team members handbook. How do

00:46:11.940 --> 00:46:13.940
you move that responsibility around and that

00:46:13.940 --> 00:46:16.599
sort of thing? I do want to say in the team members

00:46:16.599 --> 00:46:18.739
handbook, there's a number of conversations between

00:46:18.739 --> 00:46:20.880
Dave and a guy called Pete. I don't remember

00:46:20.880 --> 00:46:22.800
any of those conversations, but apparently they

00:46:22.800 --> 00:46:25.219
were conversations he and I had. So please keep

00:46:25.219 --> 00:46:27.780
that in mind. But here's what, here's how responsibility

00:46:27.780 --> 00:46:29.800
works. Like Dave taught me this. He said, I came

00:46:29.800 --> 00:46:32.059
over to his place and he said, I said, oh, can

00:46:32.059 --> 00:46:33.360
I pack the dishwasher for you? He goes, yeah,

00:46:33.380 --> 00:46:35.960
this is an S1 thing. I said, what's the S1 thing?

00:46:36.059 --> 00:46:37.920
He goes, S1 is I'm just telling you how to do

00:46:37.920 --> 00:46:39.840
it and you don't get to debate anything. I went,

00:46:39.920 --> 00:46:41.739
okay. He goes, you put the plates there, you

00:46:41.739 --> 00:46:43.920
put the forks there. I go, okay, tell me a bit

00:46:43.920 --> 00:46:45.679
more about this S1 thing. He goes, well, the

00:46:45.679 --> 00:46:48.199
S1 is I'm just telling you how to do things.

00:46:49.199 --> 00:46:51.039
Now, in some ways, sometimes that has to happen.

00:46:51.480 --> 00:46:53.679
Sometimes Brendan has to do that. When I work

00:46:53.679 --> 00:46:56.780
with people, I go, here's the system. If I call

00:46:56.780 --> 00:46:59.380
S1, I'm sorry, this isn't a debate, this is urgent,

00:46:59.480 --> 00:47:01.989
I need to get it done. the rain's coming down

00:47:01.989 --> 00:47:03.789
we need to move the table this isn't the time

00:47:03.789 --> 00:47:05.949
for a committee meeting this is move the table

00:47:05.949 --> 00:47:12.690
right s2 the second step is to go um brendan's

00:47:12.690 --> 00:47:14.570
going to make a call and stuff but let's just

00:47:14.570 --> 00:47:16.510
get some input let's make some decisions but

00:47:16.510 --> 00:47:18.869
let's note this isn't a democracy where everyone

00:47:18.869 --> 00:47:21.070
gets to vote on it brendan will make decision

00:47:21.070 --> 00:47:23.250
but you'll want to hear what you've got to say

00:47:23.250 --> 00:47:25.909
but then there's another point where brendan

00:47:25.909 --> 00:47:27.869
needs to actually hand over responsibility sorry

00:47:27.869 --> 00:47:29.070
man i'm just picking on you because you're in

00:47:29.070 --> 00:47:31.610
the front Brendan needs to hand over responsibility.

00:47:31.989 --> 00:47:34.150
This gets scary for leaders and go, okay, I'm

00:47:34.150 --> 00:47:36.829
gonna get Lucy, isn't it? Sorry, I haven't met

00:47:36.829 --> 00:47:38.230
you yet, but I'm just gonna pick on you because

00:47:38.230 --> 00:47:40.969
you're in my line of sight. Sorry for that. Really

00:47:40.969 --> 00:47:42.489
regretting to sitting at the front now, even

00:47:42.489 --> 00:47:44.110
though that was what you were trying to be encouraging.

00:47:44.150 --> 00:47:46.550
And now I've made it worse for you. So Lucy comes

00:47:46.550 --> 00:47:48.250
along and said, I'm gonna give some responsibility

00:47:48.250 --> 00:47:51.769
to Lucy. Brendan's gonna, now Brendan can suggest

00:47:51.769 --> 00:47:55.409
things to Lucy, but it's Lucy's call. That's

00:47:55.409 --> 00:47:58.019
an S3 thing. That's a big shift. And so Brendan

00:47:58.019 --> 00:47:59.559
go, I reckon you should do this and this, but

00:47:59.559 --> 00:48:01.159
Lucy's decided, no, no, we're gonna do it this

00:48:01.159 --> 00:48:04.300
way. At this point, Brendan, now Lucy, you've

00:48:04.300 --> 00:48:06.219
got to make sure Brendan does that and lets you

00:48:06.219 --> 00:48:08.599
do that. Go, Brendan, we agreed. This was an

00:48:08.599 --> 00:48:11.440
S3 thing. I've got responsibility here. And so,

00:48:11.539 --> 00:48:14.400
you know, you could go, I want, sorry, I'm just

00:48:14.400 --> 00:48:16.619
trying to think. I want pink balloons all along

00:48:16.619 --> 00:48:18.280
the thing here. And Brendan's gone, that's gonna

00:48:18.280 --> 00:48:21.619
be really, and you go, no, it's your responsibility.

00:48:22.469 --> 00:48:24.889
Then S4 is the next step. I'm sorry. I'm throwing

00:48:24.889 --> 00:48:26.710
this to you very quickly, but the S4 is there

00:48:26.710 --> 00:48:28.809
to go, okay, Brendan's given something to Lucy.

00:48:29.329 --> 00:48:30.989
Brendan doesn't have any input. Lucy, you've

00:48:30.989 --> 00:48:34.269
got responsibility. You can make it work. It

00:48:34.269 --> 00:48:35.610
might be something to do with an Excel sheet,

00:48:35.610 --> 00:48:37.150
and if Brendan's anything like me with an Excel

00:48:37.150 --> 00:48:38.889
sheet, it's better he doesn't tell you anything,

00:48:38.889 --> 00:48:40.210
because that's just gonna make things worse.

00:48:40.570 --> 00:48:42.949
But you see how it's a gradual progression that's

00:48:42.949 --> 00:48:45.869
there? And some of that is Brendan having to

00:48:45.869 --> 00:48:49.440
give that responsibility. And some of it is some

00:48:49.440 --> 00:48:51.599
of it where you need to go, hey, Brendan, I need

00:48:51.599 --> 00:48:55.440
to take that responsibility. But it's an important

00:48:55.440 --> 00:48:58.460
part in that whole thing. But keep in mind, it

00:48:58.460 --> 00:49:02.840
is important that you don't just take responsibility

00:49:02.840 --> 00:49:06.599
without asking Brendan. When I mean take responsibility,

00:49:06.679 --> 00:49:10.199
I don't mean steal it. And I don't mean taking

00:49:10.199 --> 00:49:13.550
the wrong responsibility. coming in and going,

00:49:13.710 --> 00:49:15.190
you know what, I've decided I'm going to preach

00:49:15.190 --> 00:49:18.909
up the front now, or something like that. But

00:49:18.909 --> 00:49:20.429
you need to be working through it. Brendan's

00:49:20.429 --> 00:49:21.989
still the leader. He actually has to give an

00:49:21.989 --> 00:49:25.369
account for you before Jesus. Hebrews 13, 17.

00:49:26.489 --> 00:49:28.489
But there's a point where his job is to help

00:49:28.489 --> 00:49:33.449
you build the body, to equip you. And so there's

00:49:33.449 --> 00:49:35.230
a give responsibility and take responsibility.

00:49:35.429 --> 00:49:37.250
Now let me just pause there. Got questions on

00:49:37.250 --> 00:49:39.050
that? Anything I can do to help you with that?

00:49:39.320 --> 00:49:42.139
did I've given you a lot of information I've

00:49:42.139 --> 00:49:44.420
overwhelmed you so if you want me to go back

00:49:44.420 --> 00:49:47.179
and just help clarify something then now's the

00:49:47.179 --> 00:50:01.860
time to do that yeah sure sorry yeah yeah and

00:50:01.860 --> 00:50:04.019
I know this is going to be a bit of a pain but

00:50:04.559 --> 00:50:06.340
piece of papers actually help you at this point

00:50:06.340 --> 00:50:10.260
of time to actually sit down and go okay Particularly

00:50:10.260 --> 00:50:12.420
if it's an ongoing ministry to go okay. Here

00:50:12.420 --> 00:50:14.880
is what you can do. Here's what you can't do

00:50:14.880 --> 00:50:17.840
Here's what you need to ask me for here is what

00:50:17.840 --> 00:50:20.039
you can just do by yourself Like that's that's

00:50:20.039 --> 00:50:21.960
as simple as that try and keep it to one piece

00:50:21.960 --> 00:50:24.340
of paper So that means that when you feel sorry,

00:50:24.519 --> 00:50:27.349
what is your name? Dale, sorry Dale. So Dale,

00:50:27.510 --> 00:50:29.550
when you feel like Brendan's not going to do

00:50:29.550 --> 00:50:31.389
this, but Brendan starts to micromanage you a

00:50:31.389 --> 00:50:33.130
little bit, you can kind of get the piece of

00:50:33.130 --> 00:50:34.610
paper out and go, Brendan, this is what we agreed

00:50:34.610 --> 00:50:37.829
to, right? But he can also kind of go to you

00:50:37.829 --> 00:50:41.630
and say, hey, Dale, we agreed to do this. Is

00:50:41.630 --> 00:50:43.110
there a problem here? Can I help you with something?

00:50:43.210 --> 00:50:45.929
How do I help you fulfill that? But I think,

00:50:45.949 --> 00:50:48.070
yeah, taking the responsibility, does that make

00:50:48.070 --> 00:50:50.230
sense? Yeah, I think that's a really helpful

00:50:50.230 --> 00:50:52.789
thing to do. And we have other churches that

00:50:52.789 --> 00:50:55.929
have done something like that. And again, I can

00:50:55.929 --> 00:50:57.690
make sure that Brendan gets a hold of that so

00:50:57.690 --> 00:50:59.969
he can pass it on to you. But you've got to keep

00:50:59.969 --> 00:51:02.409
in mind, taking responsibility means taking responsibility.

00:51:04.250 --> 00:51:07.869
I think too often we kind of go, oh, I don't

00:51:07.869 --> 00:51:09.869
really feel like doing that today. And so you

00:51:09.869 --> 00:51:11.349
ring up Brendan and go, oh, I'm not turning up

00:51:11.349 --> 00:51:14.670
to kids ministry today. I'd rather sit around

00:51:14.670 --> 00:51:16.750
and watch the football. That's not taking responsibility.

00:51:17.050 --> 00:51:18.389
When you take responsibility, you're saying,

00:51:18.409 --> 00:51:21.570
I'm going to be there. I have that responsibility.

00:51:21.610 --> 00:51:24.670
I'm going to see it through. I realize some people

00:51:24.670 --> 00:51:28.489
get sick, I understand that, but yeah. Yeah.

00:51:29.070 --> 00:51:32.710
My name's Faye. Oh, thank you, Faye. I can give

00:51:32.710 --> 00:51:35.690
you a perfect example of what's happened to me

00:51:35.690 --> 00:51:39.849
with passing the baton. Sure. So Brendan gave

00:51:39.849 --> 00:51:42.690
Sam the responsibility of running the can. Yeah.

00:51:43.710 --> 00:51:47.670
And then Dan came to me and said, I'd like you

00:51:47.670 --> 00:51:51.320
to do a craft floor course. Yep. that's up to

00:51:51.320 --> 00:51:54.340
you sure yep let's see so yeah that's a really

00:51:54.340 --> 00:51:57.139
helpful one so so when yeah yeah give her a clap

00:51:57.139 --> 00:52:00.519
all right so when dan gave you that he's kind

00:52:00.519 --> 00:52:03.800
of gone that's an s4 thing is dan here now you

00:52:03.800 --> 00:52:07.159
can talk all about it okay good but sorry again

00:52:07.159 --> 00:52:09.179
i'm an outsider i'm watching dan do his thing

00:52:09.179 --> 00:52:13.079
um dan's my guess is dan's pretty clear on i

00:52:13.079 --> 00:52:15.530
don't know how to do craft you do so I'm just

00:52:15.530 --> 00:52:17.570
going to hand that that's an S4 thing so he's

00:52:17.570 --> 00:52:19.929
handed that straight on to you Brendan's given

00:52:19.929 --> 00:52:22.150
Dan the responsibility of running this my guess

00:52:22.150 --> 00:52:25.010
is that's an S3 thing so so Brendan's gone hey

00:52:25.010 --> 00:52:27.070
Dan we need to organise this here are some things

00:52:27.070 --> 00:52:29.550
that we need to make sure that we're doing rest

00:52:29.550 --> 00:52:31.909
of it is your call make it happen. Did I get

00:52:31.909 --> 00:52:34.210
that right? Yeah cool. So yeah and that's really

00:52:34.210 --> 00:52:35.869
it. Thank you. That's super helpful just having

00:52:35.869 --> 00:52:37.489
that kind of thing there and just taking a step

00:52:37.489 --> 00:52:39.409
back and go okay where do those conversations

00:52:39.409 --> 00:52:42.590
fit and I think actually whenever you're having

00:52:42.590 --> 00:52:45.130
that conversation either Faye, you with Dan or

00:52:45.130 --> 00:52:47.550
Dan with Brendan or anyone with Brendan, just

00:52:47.550 --> 00:52:50.829
kind of go so can I just clarify what classification

00:52:50.829 --> 00:52:54.269
this is so that I'm clear as to what my responsibility

00:52:54.269 --> 00:52:56.969
is and what your responsibility is. So I found

00:52:56.969 --> 00:52:58.849
that super helpful in the ministries that I've

00:52:58.849 --> 00:53:02.590
been involved with. even still today. Any other

00:53:02.590 --> 00:53:29.690
questions? Oh yeah, one more. and then the others,

00:53:29.710 --> 00:53:33.630
the rest are watching the newcomers and then

00:53:33.630 --> 00:53:36.989
they try to sit behind them and then make sure

00:53:36.989 --> 00:53:39.289
that they will talk to them afterwards if they

00:53:39.289 --> 00:53:42.010
have any questions and everything. And what you

00:53:42.010 --> 00:53:45.690
said that to bring them up, if they're in the

00:53:45.690 --> 00:53:49.889
24 hours or 48 hours, that is incredible. They

00:53:49.889 --> 00:53:54.400
will value that they are valued by them. by the

00:53:54.400 --> 00:53:57.460
church, because I got so many bad experiences

00:53:57.460 --> 00:54:00.739
from my daughter, that they went to churches

00:54:00.739 --> 00:54:03.760
and then no one talked to them. The first time,

00:54:03.820 --> 00:54:06.400
the second time, the third time, and then it

00:54:06.400 --> 00:54:08.960
came back and said, Mum, that's it, I'm not going

00:54:08.960 --> 00:54:13.239
to church anymore. So the whole church from Sydney,

00:54:13.239 --> 00:54:18.679
they even have welcoming morning tea, or afterwards

00:54:18.679 --> 00:54:29.159
lunch when they are more stable. sounds like

00:54:29.159 --> 00:54:30.840
you know exactly what needs to happen so this

00:54:30.840 --> 00:54:32.900
is great so I'm sure Brendan will be talking

00:54:32.900 --> 00:54:35.300
to you about that in a moment but yeah but I

00:54:35.300 --> 00:54:36.840
do want to say that the phone call for example

00:54:36.840 --> 00:54:38.559
doesn't have to come from Brendan and I know

00:54:38.559 --> 00:54:40.280
it gets a bit scarier I don't have to ring this

00:54:40.280 --> 00:54:42.179
person up what do I say well let me give you

00:54:42.179 --> 00:54:45.690
it's like Hey, I'm Pete. I saw you're at church.

00:54:45.989 --> 00:54:47.409
You say, I just want to say thanks for coming.

00:54:47.849 --> 00:54:50.230
I'm really glad that you were there. Is there

00:54:50.230 --> 00:54:52.550
anything that you had any questions about or

00:54:52.550 --> 00:54:55.929
anything like that? Love to see you back there,

00:54:55.929 --> 00:54:59.070
but just want to say thanks for coming. That's

00:54:59.070 --> 00:55:01.090
all you need to do. Like, just thanks for coming.

00:55:01.369 --> 00:55:03.230
That's it. And the number of people go, wow,

00:55:03.349 --> 00:55:05.989
yeah, they actually care that I was there. That's

00:55:05.989 --> 00:55:08.110
all you're really showing. And it's how long

00:55:08.110 --> 00:55:10.929
was that conversation? Less than 15 seconds.

00:55:10.929 --> 00:55:17.780
There you go. Let me go back. I want you to just

00:55:17.780 --> 00:55:24.039
imagine Northern Hope Church in 10 years time.

00:55:25.519 --> 00:55:28.880
What's it going to be like? What are some of

00:55:28.880 --> 00:55:33.699
the things that you may need to say no to in

00:55:33.699 --> 00:55:37.639
order to get to where you want to go? Now I know

00:55:37.639 --> 00:55:39.920
there was a church that I was involved with and

00:55:39.920 --> 00:55:43.719
they had a they had a weekly craft thing and

00:55:43.719 --> 00:55:45.360
It was one of those things that because they

00:55:45.360 --> 00:55:47.400
had that we said yes to that it meant that we

00:55:47.400 --> 00:55:49.900
couldn't use the building on a Tuesday morning

00:55:49.900 --> 00:55:51.840
where we really wanted to run a mums -and -bubs

00:55:51.840 --> 00:55:54.179
thing and it was just a really moment It was

00:55:54.179 --> 00:55:56.119
a bit of a tense moment and we really there was

00:55:56.119 --> 00:55:57.739
a thing where we actually what we needed to do

00:55:57.739 --> 00:56:02.039
to say Hey, love your craft thing But let's not

00:56:02.039 --> 00:56:05.199
do that as a church Can you do that in your place

00:56:05.199 --> 00:56:07.920
and invite people over and do it that way so

00:56:07.920 --> 00:56:10.039
that we're free because the mums and bums are

00:56:10.039 --> 00:56:12.840
going to help us grow the church? We didn't do

00:56:12.840 --> 00:56:15.019
that, we should have. What are you going to say?

00:56:15.199 --> 00:56:20.340
I know saying no to things, it's hard, but it's

00:56:20.340 --> 00:56:22.360
important. You need to learn how to do that.

00:56:23.719 --> 00:56:25.260
But what's the church going to look like in 10

00:56:25.260 --> 00:56:31.969
years? There is... focusing on where you're gonna

00:56:31.969 --> 00:56:33.849
go. There's a book called Simple Church and really

00:56:33.849 --> 00:56:36.190
he's just going, just keep it clear. Where's

00:56:36.190 --> 00:56:38.869
your compass? Where's your point? Growing disciples,

00:56:39.050 --> 00:56:42.389
making disciples, growing as a community as disciples.

00:56:42.829 --> 00:56:44.889
That's what guides you. You've got to keep doing

00:56:44.889 --> 00:56:49.090
that. Okay, Juanita, we're gonna throw, I'm gonna

00:56:49.090 --> 00:56:52.170
throw that photo with the kids. Can you bring

00:56:52.170 --> 00:57:00.639
me back to that? What's the church? going to

00:57:00.639 --> 00:57:03.900
be like in 10 years. Well more importantly, what

00:57:03.900 --> 00:57:05.739
is the church that you're going to pass on to

00:57:05.739 --> 00:57:10.000
these guys? What's that going to be like? I know

00:57:10.000 --> 00:57:12.000
there is an urgency of going, well Jesus is going

00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:14.300
to come back, we need to be ready and so we do

00:57:14.300 --> 00:57:16.139
tend to get into that urgency and we do tend

00:57:16.139 --> 00:57:18.019
to go, we've just got to get through the next

00:57:18.019 --> 00:57:20.599
year or the next month or usually the next week,

00:57:20.820 --> 00:57:22.559
the seven -day cycle, that's what keeps us going,

00:57:22.559 --> 00:57:26.539
but I want you to look at them. What is the church

00:57:26.539 --> 00:57:30.760
you're going to leave them? a church full of

00:57:30.760 --> 00:57:35.400
warm rocks, a church full of mature people who

00:57:35.400 --> 00:57:39.719
love Jesus, serve Jesus, and love people who

00:57:39.719 --> 00:57:46.900
don't know Jesus yet. Is it going to double in

00:57:46.900 --> 00:57:48.940
size? What's the church you're going to leave

00:57:48.940 --> 00:57:54.980
these guys? I can't answer that for you. You

00:57:54.980 --> 00:57:57.969
need to work this out. Once you've worked that

00:57:57.969 --> 00:57:59.170
out, you've got to work out how you're going

00:57:59.170 --> 00:58:03.909
to get there. What's the cost that you need to

00:58:03.909 --> 00:58:07.750
bear to get there? Is this going to be a church

00:58:07.750 --> 00:58:09.909
where they can invite their friends and their

00:58:09.909 --> 00:58:12.929
friends have come, they've started loving Jesus?

00:58:15.170 --> 00:58:18.570
Imagine what your church is like in 10 years.

00:58:20.710 --> 00:58:23.869
I have gone over time, I apologize for that,

00:58:24.510 --> 00:58:28.119
but I want to leave you with... God is a big

00:58:28.119 --> 00:58:32.599
God and I think we insult him when we pray little

00:58:32.599 --> 00:58:35.920
prayers. So I'm going to pray a big prayer for

00:58:35.920 --> 00:58:41.119
you. Father, you are a great God who does great

00:58:41.119 --> 00:58:45.579
things. You rescued Israel out of Egypt. You

00:58:45.579 --> 00:58:50.840
got them to walk through the Red Sea and sometimes

00:58:50.840 --> 00:58:56.099
in our our instant Culture where we press a button

00:58:56.099 --> 00:58:58.219
and we just want things to happen and we pray

00:58:58.219 --> 00:59:00.559
to you and you don't do things Immediately and

00:59:00.559 --> 00:59:03.119
we don't follow your timing. We forget that you

00:59:03.119 --> 00:59:08.800
are a great God who does great things Father

00:59:08.800 --> 00:59:12.880
I pray for Northern Hope Church now that you

00:59:12.880 --> 00:59:15.880
will double their numbers That they will have

00:59:15.880 --> 00:59:18.719
all the problems of a growing church of where

00:59:18.719 --> 00:59:22.000
do we find leaders? How do we do this? I? Pray

00:59:22.000 --> 00:59:24.469
that you'll provide them with a great building

00:59:24.469 --> 00:59:29.010
that enables them to do that. I pray that you

00:59:29.010 --> 00:59:31.610
will see we will see more and more people turn

00:59:31.610 --> 00:59:34.269
to you in faith and repentance through them.

00:59:36.530 --> 00:59:38.730
Father I'm not going to tell you how you do these

00:59:38.730 --> 00:59:40.869
things because I have learnt that whenever I

00:59:40.869 --> 00:59:42.750
tell you to do these things you just laugh at

00:59:42.750 --> 00:59:45.550
me and do something even greater. So whatever

00:59:45.550 --> 00:59:48.329
you choose to do we give this to you and we look

00:59:48.329 --> 00:59:51.449
forward to seeing that we will watch and see

00:59:51.449 --> 00:59:54.760
what you do. and we pray this in Jesus name.

00:59:55.340 --> 00:59:59.000
Amen. Thank you. I have so enjoyed being a part

00:59:59.000 --> 01:00:02.460
of your church over the last few days and I will

01:00:02.460 --> 01:00:04.699
have to leave a little bit later on this morning

01:00:04.699 --> 01:00:06.739
but I want to say thank you for letting me be

01:00:06.739 --> 01:00:08.300
a part of your community and I'm looking forward

01:00:08.300 --> 01:00:09.619
to coming back at some point. That'd be great.

01:00:09.860 --> 01:00:10.300
Thank you.