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Reveals that you need a fine-tuned goal, motivation, and conflict if you want your characters to take off and wow your audience
This is story over everything episode 18. What's my goal motivation and conflict?
all right, so
To put a fine point on it to be real succinct about it because I'm going to start
Simple and then expand out from there goal can be said to be the outer or superficial layer of the plot
while motivation is the deeper aspect that is about the story and
Conflict is the opposing force or forces that draw out and reveal the underlying motivation that propels the hero to the goal
so basically
to
Expand well, no, I'm gonna expand on it through my example. So in my first example
I'm going to talk about the hero the main character from
Lloyd Alexander's the purdain Chronicles whose name is Taryn Taryn. We don't know what
Because he doesn't have a last name anyway
but
His goal is to become a hero and prove himself worthy of being a great warrior
Throughout the series he seeks to earn the respect and admiration of those around him and to become a leader in the fight against
the evil forces threatening purdain
Tarn's motivation for becoming a hero is rooted in his desire to protect the people he cares about and make a difference in the world
He is motivated by a deep sense of responsibility to use his skills and abilities to help others and fight for what is right
Tarn faces both internal and external conflict throughout the series internally
he struggles with doubts about his own abilities and fears and
station as well and that
He may not be strong enough to achieve his goals externally
he faces numerous obstacles including dangerous enemies challenging quests and difficult choices that test his resolve and boy the
If you haven't heard read of the purdain or if you haven't read the purdain Chronicles, it's really good stuff the
Disney movie the black cauldron is actually
pulled from
the book of three which is the first in the purdain Chronicles and
It's not as well anyway, the books always better than the movie but like is really better
And the whole series is just incredible. It's
it quickly
outshone my love of
Chronicles of Narnia and Lord of the Rings and
That's pretty impressive because I like those things a lot anyway
To
Continue talking about Tarn and his goal motivation conflict in the first book of the series the book of three Tarn sets out to find
The missing pig Henwen, but he quickly becomes embroiled in a much larger conflict involving the evil Horned King
Tarn must face his own fears and doubts as well as battles against powerful enemies and obstacles that threaten his life and
the lives of those he cares about so
He ends up you know he and in the beginning of it. He wants to be a great hero
there's actually something great that that Alexander does that ties like the first book and I
Guess the fourth not the fifth book together, which is that?
he's
Apprenticing as a blacksmith and he's supposed to be making horseshoes, but instead of making horseshoes. He tries to make a sword and
Play with it or not play. Yeah, he's playing hero with it and
It's a really great moment because it symbolizes that he's not doing what he
Wants to be doing he wants something more he wants something greater for himself his motivation is to be this great hero and do great deeds and
The conflict is that he's stuck in a place where he can't do that
That's his first internal conflict and then as things go throughout the series
He's not sure he's worthy of those things and even if he is worthy other people don't quite see him that way
And he kind of has to prove himself to himself, and it's just really lovely really wonderful
There's so much good with him, but I don't want to get lost on that one
I move on to talk about my other examples, so the next one I'm going to talk about is Voldemort
So I'm going to tell you how you can frame the Harry Potter series
From Voldemort's perspective to look at his goal motivation and conflict so here we go
Voldemort's main goal is to achieve immortality and ultimate power he believes that
Excuse me
So sorry getting back to Voldemort
Voldemort's main goal is to achieve immortality and ultimate power
He believes that he can only achieve this by becoming the most powerful wizard in the world and by creating a new world or a new order
where those who are born with magic ability are superior to those without
Voldemort's motivation comes from his dramatic upbringing and his desire to escape from the poverty and oppression he experienced as a child
He believes that he was born to be great and that he is entitled to rule over others which fuels his ambition and desire for power
Additionally his belief in pure blood supremacy is motivated by a desire to protect the magical world from what he sees as the dilution and corruption of magic
by muggles and half-bloods
Voldemort's main conflicts arise from his desire for power and his belief in pure blood supremacy
He faces opposition from those who seek to oppose him particularly Harry Potter and the order of the Phoenix additionally his desire
For immortality requires him to take extreme measures such as creating horcruxes
which brings him into conflict with others and puts him at risk and
This is a book that not a lot of people
Well, it's really much less known than Prudane and Harry Potter
But it's arsenal full metal superhero and I gotta be honest
I listen to these books all of them all nine of them in a blitz
So I don't remember certain things like the bad guys name plus it's also kind of a spoiler. So, um, I'm gonna lean on that but
the villain
You know the first main villain I would say though and the one who got everything rolling in
Arsenal full metal superhero has a goal motivation conflict and these are what they are
He wants to save the earth from overwhelming alien invaders by secretly taking over the world including controlling dozens of super humans
His motivation is self-preservation. He thinks this is the only way to win against the aliens
He takes a utilitarian approach and is willing to sacrifice many for more
Many people's lives for more people's lives. So it's not like a one person's life can be sacrificed and you can save everybody itself
It's lots of people but then you can save billions, right?
Who cares if you kill a million if you can save a billion or billions, right?
That's his idea his conflict is Amelia Lockhart who becomes arsenal in order to find her parents and keep
And keeps on going as a professional superhero because she wants to and can do good things
It starts to uncover his plan as she investigates what happened to her parents
So
Anyway, that was two villains and one hero
and their goal motivation and conflict and uh, you know
I started off at the top with talking about the definition of them and I think it's a really good succinct
Definition of you know, that's what drives the story. That's what the motivation is what drives the character
It's from something within them and it drives them to go through all the conflicts
Which are the obstacles in their way of them getting to their goal?
But you know that motivation the engine propels them into the conflict
That motivation the engine propels them through and past those obstacles so that they can get to where they need to get
and
Anyway, I have a series of questions that I think we can
Uh, i'm gonna ask and you can either think about these on your own
I'm gonna ask them all and then i'm gonna come back over each one of them
And as a thought experiment, I will go through them. I'll spend a couple minutes on each one and
See what answers I come up with so
For you and me to have these questions down and you can look in the show notes, of course on mjmunus.com
Here are the questions. Do you have a favorite character motivation? This is the internal thing that keeps them going through all their struggles
Can the same motivation lead a character to achieve different goals or rather?
Can the same motivation lead multiple characters to achieve different goals said one more way?
Can let's say five characters have the same motivation
But that leads them to different goals
Next question can the same goals be reached by characters with different motivations? So that's kind of the reverse of that
Next question should you apply gmc to every character? Does everyone need a goal motivation conflict?
How is goal motivation conflict different from wants versus needs and that's
Something i'm going to think about now is something i'm going to talk about later because i'm going to do a wants versus needs
workshop as well
Does applying gmc to villains make them better?
Is world domination the most common villain goal?
And could a hero have the goal of world domination?
So again, i'm going to go ahead and address those now you can see them in the show notes
You can rewind the episode to see what those were
And then go ahead and respond to those questions
As for me
I'm going to say
Do I have a favorite character motivation? I honestly love
redemption
Seeking redemption for oneself
Trying to redeem others those are very strong character motivations for me
um
Yeah, i'm thinking about you know in return of the jedi luke trying to redeem vader redeem his father
and
I just I absolutely love that, you know his goal
To get himself blown up with vader and the emperor and it would have also saved his friends and done other things
But it would have you know ended his father's evil and he would have helped him out and brought him to the light before
They both died in a fiery explosion
And uh, I know it's tragic. It's um,
Kind of beautiful to self-sacrifice there
uh, I think the idea of there being the chance for redemption that you know
That second chance or that you know next chance to come back and make your mistakes and a character seeking that for other people is really
beautiful and touching and then i'm also motivated I think because
I don't know. I guess I feel like I've made a lot of mistakes
I like the idea of maybe an anti-hero or maybe not an anti-hero doesn't have to be an anti-hero
who has made mistakes maybe even caused the issue that is
uh
You know something that they're
facing now that is imperiling others as well
and
They you know, they caused it and now they have to clean up their mess and I don't know if that really means that like ownership or
Accountability is a motivation that I have but I definitely know I appreciate that in my life
I can't think of any stories specifically with that. I mean i'm kind of thinking about like, uh, iron man
uh, tony starkin
Well, I mean he even in his first movie I was gonna say in the
Ultron movie avengers ultron
um movie he kind of does it that's part of his
It's part of what?
Propels the whole story of that movie. But really even in the iron man movie the first one
he
wants to be accountable for all the
Bad things that are being done with his family his company's weapons and he
seeks to destroy the weapons with his own, you know iron man suit weapon and
He's rectifying that and he's doing it through the means he knows how to which is through creating this ultimate weapon of war
but then wielding it so
delicately and so surgically that it is used to
Mostly destroy the harmful weapons that he's let get into the wrong hands
I really like that
That's probably my favorite but I that's all that's what i'm thinking off the top of my head
Uh, can the same motivation lead different characters to achieve?
different goals
Of course
Yes
I don't know how to explain that but
if
Well now i'm thinking of a
Of a common writer show specifically, but let me think can the same motivation
The same internal motivation lead characters to achieve different goals
Yes, that has to be true, but I can't think of any story examples
existing right now, but
I think it actually is something that happens
With heroes and villains who share a common or who are like foils to each other that one of them
Uh was hurt in a certain way. Well, let's just put it this way
Let's say you have a hero and villain who were victimized or hurt in some way and the villain
Seeks to victimize others. That's their goal
Their motivation is that they were hurt and victimized and then the goal that they have is to do that to other people so that
It can happen to them
versus a hero
would
Take that motivation of having been victimized kind of like uh, you could even say
Steve rogers captain america in the mcu
that he doesn't like bullies and he
Doesn't want to see the little guy pushed around by somebody bigger and stronger than him with nobody there to help him out or defend
Him and he instead of becoming a bully himself
He becomes this great guardian and protector and defender of those who need assistance
as opposed to somebody on the other side of that who
wants to just
relish in the power and take it for themselves and
Do whatever they want to to other people I guess you could say in a way maybe uh
um
Big purple guy is
What's that guy's name?
Uh, I don't really care. I didn't like him. I thought he was a dumb character
What does it cost you everything? Um should have gone for the head. I don't even know who you are. You know who i'm talking about
Thanos there we go
In a way, they're kind of like foils to each other, which is something I never thought about before
but
Uh moving on from that one. Can the same goals be reached or same goal be reached by characters with different motivations?
I would say yes. The best example I can think off the top of my head is common writer x-aid written by yuya takahashi who?
um
Was kind of a newish writer to common writer
About I don't know eight years ago or so. I think that might be how old x-aid is and common writer x-aid
First of all commoner is a japanese show for kids. It's meant to sell toys
But it's also meant to tell compelling to sell toys by selling by telling it sells toys by telling compelling stories with the ridiculous
Designs from bandai, which is the company that made made like the power rangers, you know robots and the gundam robots and uh,
I can't think of anything else right now figures of different stuff
um
But regardless, uh in that show there are these computer virus things
Sort of maybe from video games that come into real the real world and they infect people
And make them sick they give them game sickness. I think is what it's called
And there's a team of doctors who have special equipment
Which I won't go into now. It's ridiculous. It's great
It's fun that enables them to fight these things and only they can fight these things with their technology
each of the
four
main doctors in the show
um who ends up fighting these
Monsters the video game monsters has a different motivation their goal is ultimately to
end the game virus and stop the bugsters, which is what they're called from
hurting people
destroying people
Not taking over the world. It's just like hurting people and and yeah just hurting people because they're doctors
So their goal is to save people's lives, but each of them has a different motivation which causes them to want to save people's lives
And there's a whole range there and it's very interesting and that's something I actually love seeing in that show
So moving on to the next question, uh, should you apply
Goal motivation and a conflict to every character. I want to say yes
I think that's a good idea. Uh, you know, what about the shock keeper? Yeah, why not?
Um, what about the uh, you know
mook sure
give the mook a gmc and
You know, maybe if you do that if you take a couple minutes to think about the various people that your heroes are going to face
You won't have them savagely mow down everybody in their path
Even though they can uh, but yeah, I would think at least
Giving a thought taking a minute or two for each character
You know from the minor characters and then as they get more important giving more attention to what their goal motivation conflict is
Would be useful
Um
Yeah, I agree with that. Um, i've done that in my
Uh grow bug books so far. I've given both the children
And the grow bugs who are these guardian angel type characters who help them out a goal motivation and conflict
Have I given the films a goal motivation conflict?
Um, not really even though i'm going to talk about the fact that I think you should
um because I figure they're
Entities that prey on children
And well their motivation is to keep living and their goal is to prey on these children so they can keep doing that
And the conflict is obviously the children not wanting that and the grow bugs, you know stopping them
um
But yeah, I did think about that when I was uh writing these books for the second or third time
um
Okay, uh, let's see
How is goal motivation and conflict different from wants versus needs?
I'm gonna say right now. I don't know 100 I will get back to that in the wants versus needs episode specifically, but i'm gonna guess
That because a want is an external thing that the character
wants for themselves
To
materially
improve their life somehow and the need is an
internal thing that they actually
Are lacking
That and that when they take or when they get the need as opposed to the want
It makes them okay with not having the need
Or it makes them okay with when they get the need they
Are able to let go of wanting the want and they're able to move on to something else
um
I think
that the need
is
directly tied to motivation
And the want is
Like a goal
But it's not quite the same thing
That's my answer for now i'll explore that more in a future episode in a future workshop
Okay, then does applying goal motivation and conflict to villains make them better I think it absolutely does
I think
I want a villain who's fleshed out to some extent and
That it makes sense for them to be doing what they're doing
If they're out of balance and have lost themselves because I don't think any villain
I think every villain has lost themselves
And I think
Knowing what their
Gold motivation and conflict are or really just their gold motivation. Um, well because the hero is their conflict. Um,
But you can have a you know, actually if you think about that if you pause and think about it
They will have had other conflicts that could be other villains. It could be other people who don't even get to see in stories
Um telling a villain side of the story is not a bad idea and it doesn't automatically mean that they have to be
sympathetic or good
But you can understand them and you can try to understand them
And still come away with oh, this is a bad person. You might be sympathetic or empathetic towards them
But you can still condemn their you know, villainous actions, which I think is the right conclusion to draw
Is world domination the most common villain goal? I think so. I think it's pretty simple
I think most villain goals are rooted in some sort of selfish motivation
Even if it's that they were victimized or abused and then they want to adopt the practices of the victimizer abuser
So that doesn't happen to them again. They're
Selfish because they're not going through the growth. They're not accepting their lumps and
Growing and being changed internally from that they may change themselves externally
They may corrupt themselves more but they're not actually going through the process of being
a better stronger person like the heroes have to in reaction to the
Actions of the villains or the cruel world that the heroes find themselves cast in
Um, but yeah, I think it's the most common I can't think of the second one. I guess revenge would be the next most common villain
motivation
But those things can carry you a long way I think
And then could a hero have the goal of world domination? I mentioned that the bad guy from arsenal had the
goal of world domination for the sake of saving billions he would sacrifice millions and
I
Don't know. I don't know if a hero could have the goal of world domination. It certainly doesn't sound like it
It depends on how they went about
I don't know if a hero could have the goal of world domination. It certainly doesn't sound like it. It depends on how they went about
Dominating the world
Uh, the closest thing I can think of it's a light novel turned anime. It's called log horizon
You have a character the main character in there whose name I don't quite remember at the moment
um
But it's an isekai they get it's they get people playing a video game get sucked into a computer game
And then they have to figure out how to live
uh
How to live in this world and they face interesting challenges
But basically and it's funny even though he's a good guy and he's a nice person
The players refer to this particular character shiro
I think it's shiro as the villain in glasses or the villain with glasses because he wears glasses and he
Has the capacity to like map as if he's a villainous mastermind
think of all these plans and ways to manipulate and coordinate things so that he can
Get his desired outcome and
Uh, it's actually a really fun show. I'm sure the book's better, but the show is really fun and uh,
It's interesting to see
someone with that, you know mastermind villain
persona and
mentality
Use that for good because that's what he continuously does it for good and for the betterment of his friends and the people
Uh who aren't so much his friends around him and even the people in the game world the npcs because they actually turn out to be
alive somehow
And uh, that's very interesting. I don't know that he wants to dominate the world, but he definitely
Takes great
He almost does a world domination plot and it's really interesting because it's all virtuous and
I don't quite know how that works out, but it does and it's very exciting. It's very cool to watch
Um, it's a very interesting story a very interesting approach to the story
and there's like combat and things like that to some extent, but there's a lot of just like
Figuring out how to make society work and uh, it's pretty interesting
Uh, those are all my thoughts. Those are all my answers to those questions
I would love to hear your thoughts on all of those and your input on all those questions that I raised
and your assessment of my
uh
Presentation of goal motivation and conflict and how it applies to these different stories. I mentioned the chronicles of boudin
Voldemort from harry potter and arsenal or the villain from arsenal full metal superhero
As well as log horizon now, which I will add that to my notes real quick. Um
So yeah, I would love to hear your perspective on this and
I hope that you check out the next episode
Uh, I don't remember. Let's see. What is the next episode going to be next episode will be oh a story machine
So I believe that's going to be me talking about some progress on my girl bug books as well as sharing
a story idea with you and then
After that at the end of the month, we have robin hood
Uh, howard piles robin hood, which i'll be doing a casual book chat on that one
And i'm actually almost done actually today. I almost finished listening to the book
I have one chapter left to read and i've been making notes all along for the book chat
So we'll see how that goes and i'm pretty excited about that
If you don't know about that yet, i'm reading howard piles the merry adventures of robin hood
And inviting you to do the same and join me at the end of the month for the book chat
um so that you can
Weigh in and hear me talk about this fabulous book and if you liked it, i'd love to hear your comments on it, too
um
I'm gonna go ahead and wrap it up for now this workshop went a little longer than I thought it would and
But I think it was a good length
And I think it was a good exercise to think about all of these different stories and these different questions about goal motivation and conflict
And hopefully that helped you, uh wrap your head around the idea and really get it down. It's
It's funny after I thought about it. It's really simple and I don't know why I had
Felt like it was such a difficult thing to
Grasp but now I feel like I grasp it and it's pretty easy to just look at different stories and see oh gmc
For this character this character this character I get it now
um
Yeah, so that's interesting anyway, uh until next time this is MJ signing out
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