1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,000 This is MJ. I'm an author, I'm an artist, I'm an analyzer. Find all my work at MJMunoz.com. 2 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:11,000 So, this is a topical episode of Story Over Everything, where I'm going to be talking, 3 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:16,720 of course, more about serials. I want to kind of dive into the history of serials and the 4 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:22,340 differences between serial and episodic. And standalone gets worked in there too. I will 5 00:00:22,340 --> 00:00:29,820 tell you upfront, I worked with ChatGTP to help me source information on this, and I'm 6 00:00:29,820 --> 00:00:35,480 curating some of what was given to me. But I'll be presenting straight to you some of 7 00:00:35,480 --> 00:00:40,120 the stuff that came from it. But, yeah, I still think this counts as me doing research. 8 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:45,320 And if you don't like it, I don't know what to tell you. Goodbye, I guess. Or stick around 9 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:50,560 and see if you like how I do this or not. So anyway, without further ado, I'm going 10 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:58,320 to go ahead and get right into it. And go ahead and say that, you know, I've got kind 11 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:03,160 of the overview of the history. So serial storytelling, also known as, well, we'll talk 12 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:10,680 about that later. There are multiple types of serial storytelling. There's, well, that's 13 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:17,320 not true. So serial storytelling is part of series storytelling, but you can have episodic 14 00:01:17,320 --> 00:01:25,040 or you can have serial. Episodic things stand alone. It's within the same shared world or 15 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:34,520 universe. Recurring characters pop up and to some extent there are recurring scenarios 16 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:40,760 or types of scenarios, trials that a certain character goes through again and again. And 17 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:45,440 but you know, it's a different trial every time. Their life is always on the line or 18 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:51,600 whatever. I'm thinking about, you know, ancient heroes, heroes of myth facing different dangers 19 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:58,000 and wonders, I guess, as they go about doing things. And that's something, you know, that's 20 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:05,160 in mythology. So that would be episodic. Serials where the things build upon each other and 21 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:12,160 you are meant more to take each story in, in a particular order so that they build upon 22 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:16,840 each other properly for the overall narrative that has a certain arc to it, whether that 23 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:24,840 be character or I guess plot or story. So that's the rough definition of it. And then 24 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:30,720 from here, now I'm going to go and read from the list. So ancient times, there was oral 25 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:35,120 storytelling before the advent of written languages. Stories were passed down orally 26 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:39,300 from generation to generation. These stories were often told in episodes, like I mentioned, 27 00:02:39,300 --> 00:02:43,640 with each episode building on the last. For example, the epic poems of Homer, the Iliad 28 00:02:43,640 --> 00:02:49,720 and the Odyssey were originally recited orally and told in episodic form. Now it's been 29 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:57,680 a long time, but I did read the Iliad in high school and I know of stuff from the Odyssey 30 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:05,120 and it kind of reminds me of like the Merry Adventures of Robin Hood, which I'm currently 31 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:12,160 reading for my big book chat at the end of the month that I'm planning and working on 32 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:19,920 developing where it's again, the same character, the same world, same setting, but different 33 00:03:19,920 --> 00:03:23,680 adventures that the character goes on. And they kind of do build on each other, but they 34 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:30,320 kind of don't. They're a little loosely connected, I would say. In the 19th century, serial novels 35 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,680 became a popular form of entertainment and serialized novels began to appear in newspapers 36 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:37,760 and magazines. Charles Dickens was one of the most famous writers of serialized novels 37 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:43,040 with works like Oliver Twist and Great Expectations originally published in installments, which 38 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:48,520 is really interesting. In the early 20th century, serial radio dramas became a thing. They were 39 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:57,160 very popular and yeah, they were very popular. And one of the most famous things is The Shadow, 40 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:01,440 which aired, well, this is from 1930, but I thought it was 1937. It was for sure the 41 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:07,480 books. I think the 30s, 1930 is when The Shadow was an announcer on the radio and he didn't 42 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:14,000 get his own show until 1937, but it did run until 1954 with some sort of hiatus in there 43 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:20,000 for the war, I believe. But you know, that's one of them. And interestingly enough, I've 44 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:24,280 been talking about The Shadow over on Red Panda Report, which you can also find on NMJMUNUOS.com. 45 00:04:24,280 --> 00:04:29,720 I reviewed a couple of those episodes and that was all in preparation for me to talk 46 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:36,280 about Red Panda, which is very much inspired by The Shadow. Red Panda is done, Red Panda 47 00:04:36,280 --> 00:04:40,440 Adventures is done by Greg Taylor. And those are serial stories in the style of the old 48 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:48,040 radio dramas, as opposed to, or in contrast to the more episodic Black Jack Justice episodes, 49 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:55,080 also written and directed by Greg Taylor and hosted at Dakota Ring Theater. So that's kind 50 00:04:55,080 --> 00:05:00,960 of germane to my interest right now. So I'll just share that. Next thing is says mid 20th 51 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:04,640 century serial television drama. In the mid 20th century, television became the dominant 52 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:09,680 form of entertainment and serial storytelling moved to the small screen. Soap operas were 53 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:14,200 very popular and they were a form of serialized drama. I remember being a kid watching soap 54 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:19,760 operas with my mom, like before I went into kindergarten, I was, well anyway, whatever. 55 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:26,600 And I know that those stories built upon each other and there was, you know, long running 56 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:30,560 storylines and stuff. So that's, you know, obviously that's not episodic because you're 57 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:36,440 not saying, you know, it's, you know, general hospital. But something, it's a, you know, 58 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:41,000 it's not general hospital. It's not, you know, what am I trying to say? It's not a general 59 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:45,600 hospital and they forget what happened like a sitcom or something. It's general hospital 60 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:49,220 and you need to know what happened seasons ago and you get recaps of the dramatic turns 61 00:05:49,220 --> 00:05:54,920 and twists in the fate of everybody's lives there who's involved at the place, right? 62 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:59,600 Okay. Late 20th century serial graphic novels. This one, I don't know, I'm going to skip 63 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:04,360 that because I don't like what it said and it kind of doesn't make sense to me. I would 64 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:11,900 think manga is the perfect example of serialized graphic novels or comic books because the 65 00:06:11,900 --> 00:06:19,560 way those are run in the Japanese magazines, like, you know, weekly Shonen Jump or whatever, 66 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:24,360 they're intended to just go on forever and they do build upon themselves to have a long 67 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:31,120 on running story. And according to some sources, they're meant to just run forever and ever 68 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:38,200 and ever until the series declines in popularity enough that they basically tell the creative 69 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:43,960 team working on whatever manga to wrap it up. And, you know, usually I, well, I don't 70 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:46,960 know if they usually get it closed or not, but that's the intention for the game to actually 71 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:51,200 wrap up and have an ending and then they're ready to go. 72 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:58,000 Okay. Let's see. Yeah, I, that's all pretty much. In conclusion, it says overall serial 73 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:01,400 storytelling has evolved over time, but its fundamental structure of episodic storytelling 74 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:08,720 remains popular, a popular form of entertainment. Okay. So here's the thing. Periodic or episodic 75 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:16,160 and serial are not the same. There are actually opposites, but they're opposites. They're 76 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:22,520 two styles of series that you can have. And of course a series, whether it be book, television, 77 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:29,560 radio, plays, whatever, there's standalones, which that is a self-contained story has a 78 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:37,760 beginning, middle and end. There is no intention of it having a sequel and it's not built for 79 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:43,640 that basically. It's, it's meant to be 100% on its own and not part of something bigger 80 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:50,560 versus so you've got those versus a serial, which it is intended to go on. However, you 81 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:55,120 can have at least the two, you know, the two broad types of cereals or sorry, there's standalone 82 00:07:55,120 --> 00:08:00,360 versus series within series. You have serial style and episodic style, episodic. You can 83 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:08,520 watch any episode and just jump in and get it. And serial, you're supposed to pay closer 84 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:14,040 attention and watch all of them and stick around to see the story build throughout the 85 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:22,600 run of the show, movie series, whatever it is. So that's interesting. It gives examples 86 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:29,480 of, I have examples here of standalone fiction as To Kill a Mockingbird, The Great Gatsby 87 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:32,880 and Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. But I was also thinking like, you know, Jane Austen, 88 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:37,120 I think all of those, all of her books are standalones. And you've kind of felt like 89 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:42,400 a, you know, there's a vibe to all her books and you could read them all and enjoy them 90 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:49,360 as her doing what she does, which is that kind of family drama and the finding love 91 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:53,480 and those sorts of things. But they're and they're not even I'm not going to say they're 92 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:58,400 de facto a series. I'm going to say that they are standalones, but because they have the 93 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:02,920 same subject matter, they can almost feel like they're like an episodic series, but 94 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:08,520 they're not because they don't contain the same, you know, recurring places or characters 95 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:15,680 or anything like that, even if they do have like recurring themes of honor or like being 96 00:09:15,680 --> 00:09:27,520 besmirched or ruined in society, that kind of thing. Let's see. Yes. Moving on. So yeah, 97 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:32,880 like Law and Order, The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes, those are episodic storytelling because 98 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:37,240 you don't really need to read all of them. You can read or watch any of them all in any 99 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:43,520 order that you want to. And the focus is on the procedural aspect of it, the mystery, 100 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:47,240 so you know, solving the crime, catching the perpetrator and then seeing them prosecuted. 101 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:54,320 And I'm kind of mixing both Law and Order and Sherlock Holmes there a little bit. But 102 00:09:54,320 --> 00:10:00,180 there's that. And then you have something like it gives you like the Harry Potter series 103 00:10:00,180 --> 00:10:03,840 of books where they all do build upon each other because there's this whole arc with 104 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:08,400 you know, Voldemort and with Harry growing and him and his friends and whatever his family 105 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:11,960 drama ironing that I never finished. I never finished watching all the movies or reading 106 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:15,200 all the books. So I don't know. I can't speak too much about Harry Potter, but I do know 107 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:21,040 it's a series and it builds on itself and you're meant to enjoy them all together so 108 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:26,520 that you get the full story. Let me see. Is there anything else I wanted to add? So I 109 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:33,960 mean that helps me think about the way I want to do my series because I do want series, 110 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:38,200 but I'm almost thinking for like my superhero series for example, which is all at least 111 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:44,360 the first generation, but it's all pulp inspired. Maybe I want to do a blend. Maybe some characters 112 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:51,240 get a serial series and some characters get an episodic series. And then when they cross 113 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:58,960 over or yeah, I guess when they cross over they're the episodic character, like you'll 114 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:06,640 be able to pin them down as to where in the serial storytelling they fall. And yeah, I 115 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:11,280 don't know because I do have a detective character, but if I make a detective character, you know, 116 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:16,520 a private eye who's got episodic storytelling, isn't that what all private eyes have? Episodic 117 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:20,920 storytelling. Isn't that trite and boring and shouldn't I avoid that? Should I instead 118 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:28,480 give my detective, my immortal detective a, sorry, I've been listening to a lot of Dakota 119 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:32,200 Ring Theater right now, so I'd drop in references and it's popping up in my head all over the 120 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:40,120 place here. Should I give my detective a story that kind of not ruins him, but that takes 121 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:46,920 him out of the episodic world of most detectives and gives him a serial story that can show 122 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:53,560 him change over time? I don't know about that. Something I was thinking for my, I guess my 123 00:11:53,560 --> 00:12:04,440 paragon character in the superhero world is that she would have a serial series that I 124 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:10,440 have planned out or I've sketched out I'll say. And I was thinking about doing something 125 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:13,720 with her that would be interesting because I would love to do comic books. And I was 126 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:20,680 thinking about maybe giving her series as serial, but maybe her comic books are episodic 127 00:12:20,680 --> 00:12:25,800 or I was of both minds about it. I thought, well, I can make her comic book series, serial, 128 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:31,400 or I could make it episodic and just create a space within the lives of my characters 129 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:37,720 or at least this one so that I can say there's a period of time where she's just able to 130 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:42,280 have all these different cool adventures and see all these different things and it doesn't 131 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:47,080 really matter. In that way the comics can kind of go forever or to a certain extent. 132 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:50,520 I don't know. I don't know how many you could get to just being episodic and not building 133 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:58,040 the story upon itself or if it would morph into that. But I see both episodic and serial 134 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:07,880 series as perfectly valid forms of writing and entertainment. And I wonder what qualifies 135 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:13,400 something as being a good candidate for an episodic story versus a serial story. And 136 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:21,000 I don't know. Hmm. Yeah, that's something I will have to puzzle over. If you have thoughts 137 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:25,960 on that, I welcome them and I encourage you to share them with me. You can do that by 138 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:30,840 checking out the show notes or going to MJMWinnotes.com. And I think I'm going to go ahead and wrap up 139 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:36,440 right now because I don't have much else to say and this is about 14 minutes. So that's 140 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:41,880 pretty good. This was a shorter episode. I didn't, I kind of didn't know what to do 141 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:46,840 because now that I've formulated my idea of having the four different formats of story 142 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:51,160 over everything and just rotating through them, I do think it's a good idea. It's a 143 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:58,360 strong idea and it's something I definitely want to stick to. But I have skimming leaves, 144 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:05,080 which is where I'm going to be casually chatting about Sir Howard Peierls Robin Hood. I have 145 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:11,320 that coming up at the end of May, 2023. And in between then I have some ideas for what 146 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:15,480 I want to do for the other episodes, but I kind of had to, I'm at the last week of April 147 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:18,360 and I had to kind of scramble to figure out, well, what am I going to talk about? And this 148 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:22,680 was something I'd had written down for a while to discuss, you know, what's the deal with 149 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:29,160 serials? What, you know, what is, you know, what exactly are they? How do they function? 150 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:38,040 How do they work? And can I, can I do something with them? Or, you know, I wanted to better 151 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:41,560 understand, take time to look into them a little bit more and better understand the 152 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:45,880 nature of them. And now I think I do have a better grasp of the possibilities of what I could do. 153 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:52,040 Like I said, I'm exploring and curious about going episodic and serial in my series. And I think 154 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:57,560 that's a fun idea. Like James Bond, Ian Fleming's James Bond books, I believe they're all episodic. 155 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:02,280 And the movies are certainly all episodic and people are happy to enjoy those for a long time. 156 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:06,920 And I would say, I'd say the shadow is probably episodic because there were just so many novels 157 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:14,280 and they span such a great length of time that somehow as time goes on, you just kind of let 158 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:18,840 it go and you accept that another story is coming out, even though it's been, you know, 30 years 159 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:25,880 since the original, since the original story. And you just roll with the fact that now the shadow is 160 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:31,400 now the shadow is battling a super computer that has artificial intelligence and is helping 161 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:37,560 criminals plan, plan their crimes. That's, that's a real, I think it's the actual last 162 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:42,760 episode of the shadow and it was released on vinyl in like 68 or something like that. 163 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:50,600 And it's really cool. The episode is called the computer calculates, but the shadow knows, 164 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:56,440 calling back of course to the famous line from the shadow. So that's pretty cool. But yeah, 165 00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:02,360 I mean, you can enjoy both forms and both can be valid and I can be okay with writing both types. 166 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:09,720 I thought for a time that I only really wanted to write serialized series fiction, but the more I've 167 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:13,960 thought about it and the more I have researched it and you know, the better I understand the concepts. 168 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:20,120 Um, I do like the idea of both and I think I'll just have to judge for myself when and how to, 169 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:30,200 uh, when and how to utilize, you know, which format. So anyway, that's, uh, almost it. I'm 170 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:35,240 going to just wrap up with one more thing, which is to tell you, I have officially launched audio 171 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:44,360 only podcasts for story over everything, red Panda report, going ultra, which covers the Tokusatsu 172 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:54,600 Ultraman and, uh, red Panda report, going ultra, uh, story over everything. And by golly, there's 173 00:16:54,600 --> 00:17:00,680 one more, but I don't remember at this time. Let me see. Oh, did you want Chronicles where I'm doing 174 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:05,800 an audio book of the Digimon web novel that's coming out? Uh, because I like that stuff and I 175 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:11,560 figure I can, I can do that. So anyway, you can find links to all of those at MJMunius.com. I'm 176 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:18,120 still adjusting things to get, uh, the, I need to publish the podcasts page so that you can go 177 00:17:18,120 --> 00:17:23,640 there. You can find the latest, uh, I think it's 10 or so episodes of each podcast. And as time goes 178 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:28,680 on, they'll drop off the, it'll only be the 10, it'll only be the 10, five to 10 most recent. 179 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:35,560 And then I'll have links for you to subscribe to the RSS feed or the iTunes feed or the whatever 180 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:42,200 it is feed and whatever podcast you use. But I need to work on expanding that because it's only, 181 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:46,520 I only have three services activated and there's more than three that can be utilized. So I'd like 182 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:52,120 to have it spread as far as it can go, but I encourage you to check that out and, uh, that you 183 00:17:52,120 --> 00:18:00,840 check out, um, my progress on the GrowBug series. I think I'll drop a link to, um, the draft for 184 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:04,280 Ava and the GrowBug in the show notes for this episode. So you can see them. And I'm trying to 185 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:09,480 structure my show notes so that I have my link to the, you know, the show notes in your podcast 186 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:15,560 player are going to have the link to the actual show notes on the website, uh, a link to whatever 187 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:21,640 I want you to read. I'm encouraging you to read or check out and then, um, not much else because 188 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:25,480 the show notes are kind of ugly in the, uh, the podcast service that I'm using. I need to figure 189 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:31,560 out how to format those properly. But anyway, uh, I am doing that as part of my, uh, part of my pitch, 190 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:36,280 part of my process, part of my, um, well, you know, it's for my own satisfaction, but it's also for 191 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:42,040 marketing everything I'm doing with my writing. And, uh, I am writing based on, I'm writing things 192 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:48,200 that are in the field of interest of people who enjoy Tokusatsu like Ultraman or who enjoy, uh, 193 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:55,400 pulpy stuff like, uh, the red panda or the shadow. Um, yeah, cause I'm basically making the superhero 194 00:18:55,400 --> 00:19:00,520 universe that while it's rooted more in Western comics and it's starting off as like a pulp, 195 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:10,280 it's kind of saying, what if in, uh, 1900 the world changed basically, and we had a shift where, uh, 196 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:16,920 you know, superheroes became a big thing in a big way and it just dramatically altered the course 197 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:23,320 of the world. And we had, you know, super robots and cyborgs and, you know, demonic forces that 198 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:29,880 are being fought by heroic people and just kind of a whole fun mishmash of a bunch of different things, 199 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:39,320 um, to create one solid superhero world, uh, that I'm, you know, plotting and planning and 200 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:44,120 executing myself. So anyway, uh, again, I encourage you to go to MJMunoz.com to find 201 00:19:44,120 --> 00:19:51,080 everything that I do. And with that, I'm going to wish you well, I guess best wishes to you is 202 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:59,400 what I'm trying to say. This is MJ signing out. I hope you enjoyed that. Go to MJMunoz.com to leave 203 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:05,800 any questions, comments, or other feedback you might have. There you can find all of my analysis, 204 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:13,880 art and fiction. I cover books, Tokusatsu, comic books, anime, and more. Look around. You're sure 205 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:19,000 to find something else that you'll enjoy as well. This has been a story over everything production.