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Prepare yourself for unbannable book analysis as I talk about whether or not this story holds a place of honor or scorn in The Fortress Fiction.
Welcome to Fortress Fiction Episode 14, this time I'm talking about Peter Pan.
And I'm asking the question, does J. M. Barry's Peter Pan hold a place of scorn or honor in The Fortress Fiction?
What do you think and why? I am curious to know the comments are open.
As always, you can leave a comment anywhere you're finding this episode, preferably at the website.
That's the best place to find me and interact with me.
And I'm going to go ahead and get into it.
First, I'm going to clarify something that before I started this, I've changed the schedule for Fortress Fiction.
I've changed the schedule from being something that comes out every week without fail to being something that comes out as soon as I'm, well,
within a short time after I'm done with the book.
I liked Peter Pan so much that in the middle of the fourth chapter I stopped listening.
I went back, I decided to go ahead and listen and react and review each chapter on its own.
So if you go over to the Fortress Fiction YouTube channel, you can find my short videos,
60 seconds to the last, 59 seconds to the last, where I'm reacting to things that happen in the chapter,
things that we learned in the chapter as I go through the book.
And you can also find here on AndrewMunus.com, you can find a complete chapter by chapter collection
where I have collated all the audio files so you can listen to it straight through.
And there's also a YouTube video link for the playlist that goes all the way through my fuller reactions
or not reactions but thoughts and reviews on the chapter as I went through each book.
Or as I went through each chapter of the book.
And there's 17 of those because Peter Pan has 17 chapters long.
They range from, I don't know, from five minutes to like 12 minutes, I think, one or two of them are that long.
So anyway, I did that as an experiment.
It's a way to just process the book differently because I was enjoying it so much.
And I hope it's something that you enjoy.
If you haven't checked out yet, now's the time.
Or you can wait until this is over here.
It doesn't really matter.
Either way, they're going to be unique experiences.
And I will go ahead and get into talking with this book already.
I want to start by letting you know if you haven't read the book yet, you really should.
And you can read it by getting it free from Cloud Library or from LibraWalks in audiobook format.
You can also get it from Project Gutenberg in ebook format or from your local library.
Again, these are all free options.
If you want to purchase it, you can get it from Kobo, Amazon.
There is Simon and Chuster.
Apparently holds the rights to the current publisher.
Right now, so you can get it there as well.
But there's lots of people selling the book.
So wherever you find books are sold, you can find it.
So I encourage you to do that because it's a great book.
So there are, well, now I'm going to go ahead and talk about the book itself, my full thoughts on the book.
So here it is a little bit of a complicated one.
It's a little bit of a wobbler.
I'll start off with the writing of it itself.
Jan Berry is a very skillful writer.
I think he's very adept at creating emotional tension.
I think he's very adept at creating a sense of wonder at almost being pretty and almost being psychoanalytical without it feeling boring or irritating or frustrating at all.
In fact, the most exciting parts were to place while he was analyzing psychology and preaching a little bit, especially because in some ways, while this is a children's book,
it started off as a children's play and I believe the rights to it now belong to this children's hospital in England or something like that, and they make all the money off of it, which is great, great, I think, great cause.
It seems like it's very much written to adults, with adults in mind, and it's mostly age appropriate, very age appropriate, and then there are places where it's not,
and there are places where it stops addressing the children and instead turns to the parents and the adults who are reading and brings things up to them, it talks about things with them,
and it has a little side conversation and hushes the children to the side and spends time talking to the adult, and it just seems so strange.
There are things that are definitely borderline inappropriate and there are things that are, I guess, definitely inappropriate depending on the definitions of those things.
I have a pretty solid worldview which makes me shy away from certain things and the point of fortress fiction and the point of this assessment of is it worthy of scorn or praise or honor is if children are reading these books,
if children are reading this book, are they going to be built up and help to grow into better people or are they going to hold them down, is it going to cause them to degenerate, to turn into something they shouldn't be?
And that may seem like a tall order, but our fiction, the stories that we read and experience shape us and it's undeniable, so I am only interested in that.
It's not what I'm only interested in. I mean, it's just the stories being good and compelling and well written, which this story is all of those things.
And now that that's out of the way, this is a good, it's a well written book, it's a comfortably written book and it has a lot of style and flair that I find admirable and laudable and delightful.
Now there's a question, is it morally sound? Is it good? Is it going to help children? And I think yes, ultimately, is my decision.
I'm going to slow down and go back to some of the negative elements, some of the harsher sharp elements. And this discussion isn't made for children, it's about children's books, but it's not made to be had with a child, just because something is meant for a child's best interest doesn't mean that you talk about it in front of the child,
or that you invite them to participate in the conversation because that doesn't really make sense to children and allow them to consent. They're not allowed to have a say in certain things or they're not allowed to, maybe it's foolish to let them be too informed about certain things, depending on their age and their stage.
So I think that I will move on and talk about some of the more sensitive topics in here that kind of give me pause and make me consider rejecting this and saying this doesn't belong in the fortress section.
Ultimately, I believe it does.
So Peter and the Lost Boys are killing pirates. They're possibly killing Indians as well, the Piccanny tribe mentioned here. I don't know if that's a real tribe or not, but it kind of doesn't matter for the context of the story.
Children also aren't flying out through windows with pixie dust on them because they're thinking happy thoughts, right? So yeah, these children are killing people, and Peter speaks as if he's killed many, many, many people.
For example, in the book, he's asking about somebody he killed and he says, I forget them after I kill them. And it's a little odd. It's a little much. It's a little transgressive.
It seems maladaptive. It seems ill-adjusted or maladjusted, I should say, perhaps. And it's a little worrisome.
In other review series, I've said that I like my heroes to be W weirdos.
And that's true when the forces that they're facing are clearly evil or very destructive, wantonly destructive, you could say.
And that's easier to say when the people saying these types of things or these people who are being deadly weirdos are grown men and women.
There are adults doing these things and not children killing people as if they're doing it because they're playing.
And it's all very strange how the book frames things and how Barry frames things.
And I'll get back to that in a minute when I talk about the context of the Neverland and its fascinating relationship with Peter, the symbiotic relationship that seems to have.
The other things I find it fictional and almost being reconsidered and not accepting this, excuse me, are the thumbling scenes or the kissing scenes and tinkerbells in fascination, in fatuation, I should say, with Peter.
It's more fascinating based on the way fairy lore works that even if Peter was to give his heart to tinkerbell, let's say, he would love her for all of her short life, perhaps, and then she would die and leave him heartbroken, which is interesting to think that she'd be willing to do that,
because it certainly seems like she wants to be his love.
Tiger Lily also wants to, Princess Tiger Lily also wants to be his love. She wants to be something to him that isn't a mother and Peter doesn't understand what that is.
And Wendy also wants to be something to Peter which isn't a mother and he doesn't understand what that is and she's very upset with it.
I talked about this in the chapter by chapter that girls are said to mature faster than boys and Peter is still very much a boy, even though Wendy is at the cusp of womanhood, I guess you could say, she's 12, she's 11, I'm not 100% sure.
Peter seems to be the same exact age and yet he has all his baby teeth, so his original teeth.
That might be an effective Neverland, I'm not sure, and he's supposed to be the same size and age as her. It's stated clearly in the second or third chapter, I believe it is.
Wendy tells Mrs. Darling that and she doesn't know how she knows, but she does know that is the case.
And this isn't made for children, so I'll just say it. There's an interesting unresolved sexual tension between Peter and these various women and there's even a hint that maybe Mrs. Darling and Peter long ago when she was a girl shared a kiss,
because while she now wants to be his mother and adopt him as well as the rest of the Lost Boys, there's this talk very early on in the book of this kiss in the corner of her mouth that nobody could ever get to,
not even Mr. Darling and he had stopped even trying and Peter gets the kiss and he takes it with him as he goes to Neverland after dropping off the Darling children and the Lost Boys.
And the book kind of talks about his heart being melted by women, which women are complicated creatures in my estimation, and their assessment of beauty and handsomeness and charm and things like that in other people are interesting.
There's almost an innocence to it. There's almost an indulgence, I would say. I have a very traditional viewpoint, a very traditional mindset when it comes to these things, the way my wife and my daughter act towards things is ways that I would act towards most things,
especially when it has to do with relationships like this, I guess you could say. Anyway, so there's kind of an innocence to the way that Mrs. Darling, I guess, gives this kiss to Peter, lets him have this kiss before he goes.
And I don't know, it's really interesting because it's not that she and her daughter are fighting over Peter and we get to see that at the end of the book, Wendy lets Peter take her daughter Jane off to the Neverland for some period of time,
I'm not quite sure, I'm not specified where she does spring cleaning for him, tells some stories about himself, which he's delighted to hear because he's forgotten all his old adventures, because he doesn't remember, he just moves on from them.
And then Jane eventually becomes a woman, gets married, and her daughter Margaret is the next one to take Peter, to take the role as Peter's mother.
There's a really weird thing going on here, where Wendy wants to be his mother, but she also wants to be his lover, his wife, his whatever, and that never gets to happen for her.
And he's not interested because he's sexually neutered, he's sexually mute, he doesn't think that way, he has the innocence of a child, he has the innocence of a young boy who's interested in playing pretend and having adventures and things like that.
And none of that leaves room for romance, he doesn't seem to understand what the actual kiss is that Wendy gives him, when they kiss when their lips meet, well, it's unclear whether or not their lips actually met because Tinkerbell did pull Wendy's hair to stop her from kissing Peter at the time when she offered to give him a thimble,
when she finally got the courage to do it, so we don't know if they actually kissed and we don't know if that would have been a kiss on the lips, it would have been a kiss on the cheek.
Which again, that's a little racy for my tastes and it's a little racy for me to say to go ahead and throw it at kids and say that this is good for you.
And I certainly wouldn't want to encourage any children to engage in any kissing that they shouldn't be doing and that's a little concerning for me but everything else in the story kind of covers that stuff up, it covers up the fact that children are being
skelked by Indians, pirates are being skelked by Indians that children are killing Indians and pirates and that these kids are kissing that there's this weird sexual tension and romantic kind of thing going on here because while those things exist in the book,
there's a lot of interesting interplay between imagination and pretend and reality and for Peter, there is a very wobbly line between what is real and what is fantasy and what's pretend and it's almost like his pretend play is more real to him than the things that are real
because he has this very interesting affliction I would call it, I would call it that, he doesn't know what to call it because he doesn't think about it where he just forgets and he forgets and he forgets like his mind just flushes things out and he loses himself in whatever he's doing now
and wherever he is now, whoever he's with now and he has no long term attachment to those people or places or things really except he always goes back to the Neverland that he has this symbiotic relationship too and the island awakens when he comes back to the island and it kind of falls dormant when he goes away from the island
and there's even stuff in there about how the island wants to find people who go to it and who belong there and I don't really know what that's all about but it all feels very magical and warm and whimsical and while there are serious things going on while there's children's chastity and innocent
and purity at stake, it's also played off in a way that it's not really concerning, the book states it clearly that that's what's going on and it's kind of weird that Barry put that stuff in there but he also doesn't indulge it, he doesn't endorse it, it's just he's recording what's happening
and he's recording what these girls are thinking and what they're saying to Peter and how they're feeling about him without it turning into something voyeuristic or without it turning into something instructional or encouraging, it's more like look at these silly girls who have these feelings towards Peter and he just wants to play
and it isn't that he's noncommittal, he doesn't engage in anything with them knowingly because those things don't exist to him, that's an aspect of his psyche, his personality, his makeup psychologically that just doesn't exist and it's very interesting, he's got the innocence of a child but also the ferocity of a child
and it's very interesting how the story explains or features how children are, it shows them being sweet and loving and kind and helpful but also cruel and selfish and it's a very real portrait of humanity through this really fantastical tale
and the darlings, Mr. and Mrs. Darling are kind of humbled and shown to be very flawed, very fallible and to have made big mistakes that they're not proud of at all and the reader gets to kind of share in their chagrin and be embarrassed with them and for them
and it's really too bad that they let themselves get out of hand and cause these issues that cause suffering to themselves until they're children because their children were having a lot of fun in the Neverland instead and weren't so bothered by things like their parents would have been or might think they should be
but yeah, it's a wildly interesting portrayal of both the adults and the children of humans in general and it has this absurdist flair to it like Nana being a dog and the maid and that being something that is plausible and possible and people in the world accept
and the only negative effect or the only crazy thing about it is that it might lower George Darlings like social standing and that's something that he cares about and he lives in the kennel for a while while the children are gone as penance for what he did in letting them flee and letting them go away
causing it to all happen by Nana being kicked out of the nursery for that night. Details about the book we don't actually need to go into.
But yeah, it's like this very honest portrait of people and like Captain Hook is obsessed with Peter Panning wants to kill this child because he's cocky and Hook is obsessed with having good form because of the schooling that he had which was apparently a reference to some real school in England
I have no concept of what that is and Peter's natural cockiness just causes him to hate him and to want to kill him literally murder this child and he's thrilled when he thinks he's done it by poisoning him and then he's happy to fight him to the death on the ship later at the end of the book of the climax of everything
and it's really interesting how absurd that is and how scary and real that is at the same time that somebody could want to do that.
But I don't know it's just this really fascinating blend of these whimsical magical elements these really harsh looks at what people are really like and a lot of fun and fantasy like it's a fun book and while Peter doesn't grow and he doesn't really cause the people around him to grow he's not that kind of character and it's not that kind of book.
There are I know things that are it's almost like the book teaches about the ephemerality of life and it does show Peter to be kind of a tragic figure going from mother to mother and never getting to grow up and fall in love and have children of his own to pass on life to to pass on stories to.
He never takes on that responsibility and he never gets that privilege because he refuses to grow up whereas Wendy and Jane and Margaret all.
Grow up past that childish stage where they content to be with this boy who will never be a man and they find men and marry them and have children and pass on the stories of Peter Pan because they value them and they love them and they love him to some extent even though he doesn't love them back the way they want him to and in that way it almost feels like it's a story about children and parents because.
Frankly I don't think your children ever love you the way you love them and I'm sure I don't love my parents the way they love me and the way they want me to love them and it's just kind of a failing that we have his children that we never love.
The people we should the way we should and.
It's a little bit of a tragedy it's a little sad but it's also true and.
I don't know that it's important to know but I think it.
Makes life better knowing just like it's not important to read all these stories to know all these stories but it makes life better when we get to.
Share them with each other and we have to experience them and.
I don't know there's something really with all the crazy things in it and all the negative elements there's still something very like soulful and honest and open and.
Staring I think about this book and I think.
That alone though.
The wonder and the mystery in the are there to have booked by it are enough to make it worthy of a place of honor and the fortress fiction.
It's all dubious but it's there anyway I would love to hear your thoughts on this book I'd love to hear your thoughts on what exactly Barry was trying to accomplish with this book and.
How you think he did and I want to know what struck you.
What struck you in this book what really.
Hit you hard and.
And impacted you what had an effect on you because I think there are things in here that are really.
Good for sparking and emotion sparking.
Thought and.
Consideration and contemplation and.
Maybe that's what it is that sparks contemplation because it makes you think about.
The world.
That the characters exist in which is a reflection of our world because of the interesting and fantastical scenarios that they find themselves in.
I think it sounds about right anyway.
I think you free time and attention.
I encourage you to check out the website I published a short story.
Called.
Carove.
Midnight Angel recently.
Just earlier before getting this out within a couple days I mean and I encourage you to check that out it's a an original story that I wrote for a contest it did not win the contest and.
I thought I should go ahead and share with you see how people like it I'd love to hear feedback on that as well as on.
On these books are on my analysis of this book.
And again I encourage you to check out the chapter by chapter episodes covering the book and join me as I jump into the next book pretty soon which is going to be maniac McGee from 1990 I believe I don't know anything about it although other than asked you with racism and orphan and.
It'll be interesting to see how that goes I guess I want to talk to you about somehow.
The little white.
I want to talk to you about Barry's other works he was a prodigious author of plays and he wrote 3040 I couldn't quite tell I stopped.
Counting because it was too many I have a bibliography linked here in the show notes so you can see that.
And.
There are five versions of Peter Pan it looks like there was the stage play and then there was the actual books.
And we have from 1902 the little white bird or adventures in Kensington Gardens.
Then we have Peter Pan or the boy who wouldn't grow up staged which I mean.
Put on the stage as a play in 1904 published 1928 somehow Peter Pan in Kensington Gardens not to be confused with.
Adventures in Kensington Gardens in 1906 and when Wendy grew up an afterthought written 1908 published 1957.
And then we have Peter and Wendy the novel 1911 which is the version that I have linked to here from Libra Rocks with Libra box and.
So it's confusing why there's so many different versions and I'm frankly not going to listen to all of them to.
I don't know satisfy somebody's curiosity or or make it.
Yeah I'm just not going to take the time to to go through the different versions of it and verify that they're all 100% the same because that seems kind of silly to me.
I mean frankly it seems kind of silly that there are so many of them.
So many of them versions of it but you know.
So many of them I guess probably an echo or a result of the publishing industry was like at the time which.
It was the longer it wasn't very organized.
So yeah that's all we'll go ahead and get out of here and what we have to do to get everything else.
I hope you enjoyed that.
Please remember to like share and subscribe.
I invite you to comment ask questions and share your thoughts with me.
It's always more fun when you're part of the conversation until next time.
Keep reading be well and do good things.
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