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Hi everyone, welcome to pot luck food talks. Today I'm with my friend Alex Chaparro, he's

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a sociology solider in New York. Hi Alex, how are you doing?

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Hi Eric, always good to see you, always good to talk to you. One of my longest friends

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I've had in my life and always excited to see what you're up to Eric. Thanks for inviting

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me. I wanted to talk with you about street food

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in general, but specifically street food in New York and how can this intertwine with

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sociology, with your background as a sociologist, what can you tell us about it?

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Yeah, well I had a food cart of myself in New York, it was kind of my first experience of

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employment in New York, kind of not wanting to have a boss and being my own boss. And

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yeah, like the options of what you can do in a new city as an immigrant are kind of

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limited sometimes. And we would see kind of the great value that people give towards food

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and eating out here in New York. And there is kind of this lauded appreciation for a

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lot of international cultures as they say, you know, like how deep rooted Chinese food

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culture is in every city in the world, how deeply rooted Mexican food culture has become

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everywhere in the world. And we were seeing that Venezuelan food was kind of being like

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the new big hit in New York. You know, like everybody had already tried every version

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of El Paso Otako, everybody had already tried, you know, every variation of full of, you

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know, like these very beloved street food classics and the arepa, you know, like something

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that for us is very commonplace. We eat it every morning. We don't think that highly of,

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or we don't think of it being something so special. Suddenly, if you're seeing it from

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an outsider's perspective, maybe like a gringo who has never tried it, you know, it's this

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corn flour crunchy pita bread. It's like its own very unique experience, usually filled

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with like a butter to give it some fat, a salty white cheese with black beans, sweet plantains,

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avocado. So for the people who hadn't tried that, and that wasn't that common, it was

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like the new thing that was blowing people's minds here. And arepas are, you know, undoubtedly

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our most traditional food tied to our national identity and that we're very proud of, but

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it is not the most popular food that you find in the street in Caracas, but actually is the hot

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dog and hamburger, which seems kind of silly because it's a very US thing, but it speaks

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to like the closeness that Venezuela has geographically to the States.

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Yeah, I wanted to say that like culturally, Venezuela, the most popular sport is baseball

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and not football as in the rest of South America. And there are many other indicators that show

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the influence of North American culture is quite strong, but the Venezuelan hot dogs

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are their own thing. I haven't seen anything like that nowhere else. Maybe in South America,

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like there are other places where hot dogs could be similar, but the thing that you have like

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this buffet of 20 different sauces and this act that after each bite, you add a different sauce

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to your hot dog or your burger and everything is so like excessive and nasty. Like you want the burger

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with extra avocado and a fried egg and bacon and you know, like everything that's quite Venezuelan.

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Yeah. And it's also speaks a lot to the culture of street food, because I think the evolution

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of the Perrero cart, the hot dog hamburger carts that, as I was saying, is kind of like the most

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popular you would find in every corner, especially kind of in working class neighborhoods and kind of

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neighborhoods next to big office buildings. And it speaks to the culture of street food, because

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I think all of those variations came from competition from one cart to the other.

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So like maybe the first cart was offering kind of onions and cabbage and crushed potato chips

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as kind of like a special thing to make their hot dog special. And then everybody's flocking

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towards that cart. So that meant that the other carts started to have to offer the same thing.

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Then added to that was like the shredded cheddar cheese, you know, that kind of became like a

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mountain over the hot dog. And all of these things were kind of a way to kind of one up the next

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person with the burgers. It started being the same thing. It stopped being just a slice of hamburger

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meat, but also a pork chop and chicken and variations like the cuatro por cuatro,

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the widow maker, you know, like the idea of making kind of the most elaborate thing to catch the

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attention of a consumer that has a lot of different options in the street. And yeah, the influence of

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the United States culture is a good and bad thing. It kind of speaks to cultural imperialism, kind of

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how much our culture in the 20th century, you know, was kind of obscured by kind of how much influence

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we would come from the United States. But it's a beautiful thing of syncretism, which is something

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that South America has always been kind of known for, which is like taking the influence that is

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kind of force fed upon us and make it in our own. We've been doing it with like saints, you know,

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the Catholic church has been trying to say like, Hey, you got to worship this thing. Oh yeah. And

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we like change his clothes, change his variety, make it look more like, you know, black indigenous

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people of these regions and kind of make it into our own. Yeah. And like you can find this in any

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aspect of culture, I would say like music genres, like rock music or hip hop music that somehow

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it's adopted by first imitating and then creating its own variation with its own identity.

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Yeah. Like hip hop is a great example. Yeah. The Venezuelan hip hop culture right now is so rich.

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It also kind of always speaks to me to like origin cultures too. And like been interesting

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since it's been discussed recently, it's kind of like Caribbean roots of hip hop and graffiti.

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You know, a lot of times we're thinking that we're taking a quote unquote United States culture

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and remixing it to make our own. But if you dig in deeper, you see that for example, the first

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DJs in New York city were Caribbean, right? Yeah. Got La Rock, DJ Kool Herc, who were Caribbean and

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who were bringing what was happening in the Caribbean to the United States and the United

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States was making a remix to that. That what's kind of like lamentable is that the United States

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relies so much on the idea of cultural supremacy and cultural imperialism that they have to create

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a narrative that like we created this, this is a very United States thing and everybody else is

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doing it. It's just kind of imitating us. Cause if there's something that United States knows how to

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do is make something really popular worldwide. But I think by kind of working through it, we are able

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to dismantle all of these origins, stories, myths, and kind of make things, you know, back into like

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what makes each of these individualities actually rich. Going back to the food topic, I think that

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there are also examples, especially in New York of maybe the opposite, like traditions that were

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required to adapt to the local demand to be understood. I could think of the Chinese. You

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told me something when we were like in Chinatown eating, like how the gastronomic offer evolved

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from its origin to what it is right now. I think what's interesting about that is that, you know,

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a lot of great things come from that need to satisfy a palate that is not your own. Most of

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the things that we understood of kind of like popular modern Chinese food, the chop suey,

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all of these things are kind of an invention that happened in the United States from immigrants

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trying to make what they think would appease the United States and its people. And beautiful

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things come from that, you know, and not to like talk so much about the United States, but like

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the hamburger, you know, like it's obviously not from Hamburg or the United States, but it's kind

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of like what beautiful things can happen when things kind of get displaced and out of context

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and recreated. But I wanted to talk about what you're saying now, because I was thinking about

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this before jumping onto the podcast about what makes New York street food really special to me.

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And to me, I think that what makes it really special is that it has an opportunity to not

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have to necessarily play into those dynamics of having to satisfy someone else. And I was thinking

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and this is the sociologist and me kind of going off the sidetrack, but I was thinking about this

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book by Octavio Paz called the Labyrinth of Solitude. It's nine different essays about like

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the Mexican identity and the title has to do a little bit about how it's kind of like a labyrinth

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where you eventually will just feel lonely trying to find yourself in a identity with other people

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around the idea of nationality. But on the introduction of that book, they say a really

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interesting description about San Diego, California, where my mother is from. And I would like to speak,

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you know, about what I know, you know, New York and San Diego in this country, at least.

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And my comparison to that and using this kind of essay as a reference is that what Octavio Paz was

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describing is a city where all of the architecture is Spanish, colonial and Mexican, you know,

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the buildings, the houses, the plazas, they're Mexican. There's Mexican names on the streets.

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There's Mexican culture everywhere. The most popular food is Mexican. But there is this very

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clear divide between the white American culture that is supposedly defines San Diego and this

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Mexican culture that is always there kind of in a clear separation. And it becomes kind of sad when

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you think about the street food culture and kind of what that ends up representing, you know,

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what do you think of when you think of Mexican food in California? That goes right like... Yeah,

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but also this abomination called the burrito. Yeah, that it doesn't exist in Mexico. Yeah,

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it has nothing to do with Mexican culture. And the biggest pride about, you know, LA street burritos

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and San Diego, the biggest, baddest burrito. And another thing that I used to always kind of

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cringe at was this idea of like the carne asada. It was always kind of pronounced with this like

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American voice, carne asada burritos or carne asada fries. And to me, it was like always like kind of

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really disappointing or kind of like showing how, I don't know, there was always kind of this catering

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to what the gringos idea of Mexican food would be. And not to dis on it, those burritos are

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really delicious. There can be really amazing, like what they call Tex-Mex food or Mexican-American

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food. And it's a very rich culture about that syncretism we were talking about earlier. But

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one thing that I think is really special about New York street food is that I feel that this city,

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New York, is so strongly defined by its immigrant population that those white United Statesians

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can't really make this claim that this is like our city and you're here to cater to us or that

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the culture is defined by the United States and everybody else is like an immigrant. This city is

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made, what is interesting in every corner that you see is the amount of diversity of culture

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and not white United States like vacuum culture. And that's what makes it really rich in

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beautiful. And if you take that to street food, you get this really rare opportunity that in one

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city you're able to try, and this is kind of like a loaded term and some people like it or not, but

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really like authentic food. I completely agree. I was just going to mention that in my two trips

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I've had to New York, I feel that you have like a showcase of completely different cultures.

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You could try a restaurant or a street food vendor from each island of the Caribbean in one week.

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You could do that if you wanted in New York and you get the feeling that it's authentic. I don't

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know. I've been in places like, for instance, Chinese restaurants in Germany that I feel

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just someone went to an Asian supermarket and mixed all the ingredients with rice and that's

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where what they're serving you. And here it was completely the opposite. You get flavors and things

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that you don't find elsewhere. Yeah. And you get the experience to be amazed or be introduced to

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something that you don't maybe know already and can kind of expand your heart, your life, your mind.

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And that kind of really goes back to why I'm so interested in street food or why I have such a

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like a strong affinity to street food. There's many variations of street food, like the cart,

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the little window, the little bakery that offers things to go. But to me, it summarized or defines

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by like a food that satisfies a working class's need, you know, like or a working community's need.

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So it has to be usually centered around like the lunchtime or kind of the commute to work and back

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to home, you know, things that you might eat sitting down and taking a long time or things

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that you might eat kind of on the go walking around. And I feel that in kind of those examples,

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you, for example, in a city like New York, you get a offering of food that instead of trying to

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cater to like a wider population or like, you know, to call it by its name, to try to appeal

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to the white bourgeoisie of the United States, there are people who are born here, which I feel

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happens a lot of like the restaurant culture where we try to kind of get in on the blogs

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and we try to get, you know, Peter, this person to kind of come and review us and give us the,

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you know, the approval from the New York Times or from Eater. And a lot of times, you know,

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those places also have a lot of interest in other cultures. And I felt that when I had my

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restaurant that I felt that like the ultimate objective would be to be accepted by kind of the

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snobby culture of like, quote unquote, high quality food or kind of like high dining experience.

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So we were trying to make hot dogs and hamburgers, but I felt in the way that we were marketing,

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the way that we were using Instagram, the way we were making our recipes, even we're kind of

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always catering to try to satisfy someone else, you know? And I think I'm excited for the street

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food culture future in New York. For example, at least in Venezuela, because there's a bigger

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population of Venezuelans growing right now. And I'm excited to see kind of the street food culture

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that maybe like instead of trying to satisfy the gentrifying neighborhood, tries to satisfy kind

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of the local community that they're in, the people that are interested in getting that food

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that satisfies their own taste and that creates their own kind of demand within their own community.

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And then later, if anybody from the outside is interested in connecting with that,

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they're welcome, but it's kind of on their own terms, you know, in a way.

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Yeah, going back to the Venezuela as a gastronomical offer that can be exported.

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I remember 20 years ago, there was this, what's the name, Arepa bar in New York.

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20 years ago, that was the only one that was like a reference, I mean, like worldwide that I knew of

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just a plain Arepa place or a plain place where you get cachapas, not like a fancy

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outdoor restaurant or something like this. And this was very difficult to see like in

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countries like Germany or Spain. And in the last five, seven years, this has been completely

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flipped. Like you find Arepa place and cachapa places in every city, anywhere, I would say,

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of course, as a consequence of the massive migration due to the social crisis right now.

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Yeah. And I think that's a good example of this restaurant that you were referring to right now,

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did a really good job of kind of introducing Venezuelan street food and making it attractive

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to the average gringo. And they did a really good job of it. They had really good graphic design.

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They had really good presentation of the dishes in Venezuela, but also that restaurant is kind

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of notoriously known for making the reina pepia without mayonnaise, you know, and reina pepia is

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one of like the most beloved fillings in Arepa, which is avocado chicken salad and very simple

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ingredients, avocado, shredded chicken, cilantro, mayo, salt and lime. But like the mayo being a big

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part of that, you know, kind of the fattiness that most simple Arepa filling you can make at home

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delicious. But there was this idea that like adding mayonnaise would be gross, quote unquote,

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to the United stadiums. Yeah, no, no, no, absolutely not. I've also seen the same,

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I would call it a defect or not authentic variation in restaurants here in Spain,

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where you see this reina pepia like dark green and it's like, no, that's not the way it is.

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Like it has mayo and that's how it's supposed to be. And it's okay. And this restaurant,

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it was like one was located in the lower East side in Manhattan, you know, very high wealthy area.

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And the other was in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, a neighborhood known kind of as the heart of

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like gentrification in New York. And that's something I kind of want to talk about next.

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But we've been seeing a lot more Venezuelan restaurants open up in Jackson Heights, Queens,

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and neighborhoods that might not be so gentrified or so high kind of value in the real estate

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market, but there are kind of housing, you know, families, large communities, and you're seeing

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kind of offering at these restaurants of patacones, of yo-yos, of things that to me are even more

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interesting about kind of the rich varieties of street food in Venezuela. The yo-yos being,

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for example, a sandwich made where the bread is made out of sweet plantains, made into kind of

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like a patty, hard enough to handle, and then filled with like shredded beef and the typical

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things you would put on a hamburger. Can you also explain patacones, what they are?

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Patacones is something similar, but with green fried plantains. You fry them and then you

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smash them together to make a strong enough patty, and then you fill them with like the

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typical things you would fill on a street food cart for a steak sandwich or a hamburger,

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which is kind of all those sauces you talked about, you know, you can put kind of salty white cheese.

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I would say it's one of the most distinctive things of, I would say Caribbean, but probably

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Africa as well. What I think is really beautiful about street food is that you find this amazing

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richness of food culture that doesn't have to be necessarily tied to an idea of privilege,

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an idea of quality linked to necessarily exclusivity or ingredients that are uncommon.

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You know, sometimes a lot of times in street food we find foods that are used with very common

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ingredients that doesn't have a high price point, but they can have like a deeper, rich root in

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someone's love for that food that makes it so much more delicious and strong and powerful.

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We've become kind of accustomed to value things by their exclusivity or their elaborate effort

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to be done as a caring to us. And I see it very much in the food culture and I experienced that

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having a food offering where you would feel that you would want to like make your prices every time

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a little bit higher and you would want to kind of like cater to the people who are willing to pay

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$14 for a burger with a brioche bun and all these status symbols or symbols of like higher quality.

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And I was thinking of the example of Osaka, Japan. It was a part of Japan that was known for its

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merchants. It was like known for the people who would sell garments and you know just basically

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the things you would sell to people kind of on the street and stores. At one point there was this

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emperor who decided that the merchants were in the lowest caste of society. So officially and by decree

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of the government they weren't allowed to buy property and they weren't allowed to like serve

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in high ranks in the government and such. So they were kind of ostracized with their money kind of

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like in this way like this anti-capitalist sentiment like hey you sell shit to me you're like the worst

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of the worst you're just trying to get money out of my pocket and fuck you merchants suck. But I

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thought it was really beautiful that what kind of emerged in Osaka is the fact that since people

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didn't have money to spend on a house or belongings that would have kind of equity that would have

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greater value over time they developed a culture where people would just spend all their money on

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food and drinking. So these merchants would get out of work and they would have nothing else to do

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with their money so they would drink and eat out because that's the only thing they could do with

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their money. And Osaka made some of the most iconic street foods of Japan that are really popular all

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over the world now like takoyaki the balls of squid with batter that are fried in little balls

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okonomiyaki the cabbage pancake. Oh yeah a lot of this comes from the streets of Osaka

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of not having anything to do with your money than to like spend it and enjoy it you know and this

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idea again about like the bougieness of like fine dining experience of trying to get the most

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artisanal rose for your coffee or the highest grade hot dog or that was bespokely made by a butcher

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in Red Hook guanas whatever then the experience of just the street food culture where you just

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have to you know everybody you know the merchant the person who doesn't really have high status in

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life enjoy really delicious experiences on a day-to-day basis. Yeah I wanted to ask you about like

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a top five of your favorite street food bites and why in the context of everything you just said.

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Going back to New York thinking about these like iconic things of eating out in the street that can

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like blow your mind and blow your heart and soul I'll talk about the neighborhood that I live in

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which is Crown Heights Brooklyn it's known to be kind of one of the biggest hubs for the West

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Indians la jantillas as we know it in Spanish in the Caribbean and two of the things that I

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really love the most are rotis and bakes these are again kind of like a covered in bread meat

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you can take it out to go the roti is this really delicious flat bread is it like a shredded potato

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like the french roti or something completely different well it's an Indian flat bread okay but

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it became really popular in the West Indies and I think what's really interesting about it is that

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it has some sort of grain kind of involved in it too like a pea flower okay and shredded peas

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within the bread itself and so it has this very kind of like I don't know how to describe it kind

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of like this really flaky bread with a lot of fluffiness to it and it's usually filled with

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like a chicken stew a curry goat an ox tails too and one of the things that I think kind of like

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makes it really dear to my heart and that reminds me a lot of back home is this like delicious

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tamarind sauce oh yeah that usually goes along with it sometimes it can be spicy sometimes it

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can be not but it's usually sweet and for anybody who likes barbecue or the idea of kind of like a

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sweet condiment to me this takes that to like the next level by adding that you know tanginess and

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citrus flavor of the tamarind which is so delicious and the other dish that I really like around my

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neighborhood is the bake and codfish which is it's called bake but it's actually fried and it's

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this big disc of fried bread which like kind of the most easy way to understand it is like a savory

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donut or a donut that hasn't been added any sugar or glazing so it has that same kind of feeling

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that you would have with kind of fried bread of a donut they open up in the middle and they fill it

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with salt fish salad so like a cod or a bacalao a salted fish that is broken down mixed with aki

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different vegetables so you totally have this for breakfast this fried donut filled with salty fish

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with tamarind sauce this is also from also from west indies okay and you'd normally find in most

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of the bakeries here and usually you can only get it till 11 a.m because it's a breakfast food

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and to me i would have to say that it's like my top breakfast experience you know to eat this like

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fried bread filled with salty fish it reminds me a lot of the empanada de cazon in minnesota

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which is usually like a corn flour empanada filled with baby shark salad yeah like a baby

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shark stew i would say like yeah like stewed in a tomato sauce my god you know that experience

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erish you know how good that could be the beauties of street food or street food culture which is

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which is what happens in chinatown or the chinatowns in new york which are really kind of

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well known there's many different chinatowns in new york there's a manhattan one there's a brooklyn

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one in sunset park and the one in flushing queens the one in flushing and one in brooklyn

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they're just bigger there's more variety with the regions of china that are usually represented

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there but the one in manhattan is one of my favorites just because i'm usually around

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the manhattan and it's such a beautiful experience to get to walk through it in chinatown you see

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this beautiful example of a community kind of serving itself about the dollar of that immigrant

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population staying within that community and it kind of speaks a lot to kind of the problems or

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kind of the challenges that immigrants have in the united states where you usually have this

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offering about integration like integrate within the country integrate within the idea of the

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american dream or the american promise and a lot of people are like hey yeah but i've seen what that

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ends up with a lot of different cultures like the african-american culture how you know the idea of

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the democrats is like oh integrate be part of this and then you see kind of the offerings of like

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people like malcolm x or black nationalists where they're like hey no a stronger way to kind of

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make our communities stronger is by creating self-reliance by understanding the people who

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are creating self-reliance by understanding how we have to kind of protect ourselves and kind of

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cater ourselves first there's a lot to unpack there and a lot to talk and we'll talk about that in

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another podcast but you see it in chinatown this offerings on street food that seem to be the

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cater to like people's kind of like comfort foods and to me one of the greatest comfort foods that

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would take a lot of happiness to be able to connect with in new york is kanji which is kind of that

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it's like a rice soup not right it's a rice porridge again talking about kind of the idea

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of something being valuable because it's exclusive or it's high value ingredients or high cost

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ingredients kanji started as a way to kind of feed more people with less food so the way that you

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normally make it is kind of like you're making rice you normally would make rice with two cups

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of water one cup of rice this was usually like 12 cups of water for one cup of rice and to cook it

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for a long time for it to create that starchiness a food that kind of expands and multiplies but

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again even in if you're satisfying kind of the need to feed yourself economically it doesn't

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mean that it doesn't have to be something that can be incredibly valuable personally culturally

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and as a food experience so kanji is usually there's like chicken kanji there's octopus kanji

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there's multiple mushroom kanji there's different kind of stews that can go into it different

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presentations usually be served with fried bread so especially in the city that has such a cold

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winter as new york being able to go to chinatown and find kind of like different places that have

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their own servings of kanji you see kind of like a big pot with a nice crust of starch around the

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edge and yeah having this like big hot goopy rice porridge with like savory pieces of chicken and

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soy sauce and a fried bread to dump into it it's one of the best experiences my my favorite food

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experiences i can't wait for you to come back eric to to take you to some of my favorites yeah

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i remember we walked by and it was closed if i'm if i don't remember wrong but i i that was a super

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nice walk we had in chinatown we had we had dim sums different types of skewers cakes it was special

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because it was kind of a lot of places that we could kind of stop in and out there were foods

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that you can take kind of on the go so we started with some vietnamese beef jerky ah yeah as it's

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known here so it's just like dehydrated meat that is condimented beforehand super delicious and then

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we stopped by a few bakeries that had pork buns one specifically known for its pork and pineapple

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buns so it's kind of like a sweet pastry filled with pork and we also had some egg custard buns

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which to me were a big highlight we thought they were going to be savory but they were actually

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kind of sweet and so it's just kind of the yolk of the egg inside of a kind of like a bowel type

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bun but with i would say 50 50 between savory and sweet but a really delicious experience

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i really wanted to you to take you to the skewer carts that they had in grand but i'm just finding

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out that it's more of like a nighttime cart than a daytime when we went and it's this cart that has

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this delicious skewers served over charcoal so you get this feeling of eating something in a barbecue

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right in the street of you know middle of manhattan and they usually have like enoki mushroom covered

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with bacon king oyster mushrooms scallops covered in bacon sweet potatoes wrapped in aluminum foil

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put into the charcoals so a food that you can eat in the street that is again incredibly delicious

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we also stopped by the dumplings and some of my favorite dumpling spots that again are kind of

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really well known in new york because they appear in every like cheap eat list like oh you can have

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four or five delicious chive and pork dumplings that are fried or steamed for a dollar 50 in new york

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and i know i'm like contradicting myself because i was just saying earlier how these things can be

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valuable specifically because they're not expensive but i also want to kind of highlight how i also

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don't really like when it's kind of always thought as like a cheap food like i like to think of it

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it's like not bougie like not unnecessarily overpriced or not unnecessarily sold to you

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as a as a marker of privilege but more as something that can have just value in and of itself

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it being affordable is something that obviously makes the experience of eating to me at least

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much happier but i don't like to think of it as like cheap food and like when i like to look for

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dumplings in manhattan i don't necessarily like to go follow the cheap food guides because most of

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that food is already kind of inexpensive so sometimes those cheap food i'd would send you

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oh these dumplings are only a dollar a dozen but you know the store next door has them for a dollar

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fifty a dozen and they're they're really good too you know like it doesn't necessarily have to go

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for like these like porn of cheapness or of unexpensiveness a lot of the things i'm talking

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about in this podcast they're nuanced you know like catering to other people sometimes can create

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really beautiful things sometimes fine dining experiences can be amazing authentic is something

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that is like a very questionable term to use because sometimes people want you to be authentic

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and that means that you can't really change a recipe of where you're from and i think that's

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bullshit you know like there's a lot of offerings i think in new york city that might not be

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traditional but they're still authentic all of this is kind of to just say that i think the

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experience of eating the experience of connecting with the city is always enriched when you read

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about its history when you read about the different factors involved when you talk to the people

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that's eating there when you kind of see the like cultures and dynamics that are connected to a

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specific food and when you kind of eat and connect to a city like that it really enriches your

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experience and kind of makes you a more nuanced experience but i think culture and the dynamics

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of power in cities in the 21st century that we're living now it's incredibly complex but it always

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kind of starts a conversation that's why it's interesting to go kind of on a food tour with you

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you know to listen to these types of podcasts or kind of to like learn more about the foods that

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we're shoving our faces another thing i will say is that the idea of authenticity and kind of like

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cheapness or unaffordability has to be sometimes kind of seen with a little nuance because that

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that can be also problematic too when sometimes people are like oh no tacos have to be cheap

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tacos are cheap and that's a cheap food and then you see kind of like offerings like

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enrique olivera or cosme or something like that and it is really groundbreaking when you take that

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type of food and present it kind of on the world stage of you know fine dining so you have to be

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careful to not fall into another colonizing mindset of kind of seeing things in a way that

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you want to exoticize them or want to kind of make them fit into your idea of what they're supposed

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to be because again it falls again to what we were saying earlier about the other person catering to

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you the other person being there to satisfy your expectation and what we kind of i think is beautiful

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about connecting with street food is to actually connect beyond your perspective you know like

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expanding it expanding what you know being kind of humbled by what your expectation of something

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can be so like cheap food can be expensive expensive food can be cheap cheap food can be bad

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expensive food can be bad you know it's about connecting something that has a little bit more

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soul and kind of history behind it that's it for this week's episode of potluck food talks if you

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like what we're doing make sure to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode you can

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also find us on instagram and tiktok as potluck food talks the show airs every monday