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Hi everyone, welcome to potluck food talks. Today we're going to talk about pasta. So

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what are your thoughts on pasta Phil?

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Pasta, I mean it's like one of the most basic food staples I think all around the world

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regardless of whether you're in noodle eating countries like Asia or Italy obviously, you

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know when we talk about pasta we're talking about mainly Italy. But I think regardless

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of where you're from or where you are it's like one of the most common sort of like quick

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easy fixed dinners these days, you know, it's become such a fundamental staple in every

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household.

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Yeah, I would say all over the world. I'm pretty sure if you go to Africa you will see

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a lot of people eating pasta, not to say all over America, north to south, it's a staple

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food everywhere.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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What would you say are the dos and don'ts when it comes to cooking and eating pasta?

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Well, I mean, I think first of all, we need to narrow down like what we mean with pasta

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and you know, like if we mean, you know, noodle dough in general, you know, when you used

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to eat pasta, you know, I think it's easily discernible that you're talking about Italian

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noodles, right?

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Yeah, Italian wheat based, I wouldn't even say dry pasta. We can talk about fresh pasta,

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but I think what everybody eats at home is dried pasta, right?

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Yeah, definitely. Although, you know, it's like, I feel like the conception of what people

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think dried pasta and like fresh pasta, what the differences are, like I think that there's

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some misconception because I think it's really interesting that most people think that dried

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pasta is just like a convenience product and that fresh pasta is by default better than

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dried pasta, which is, you know, not the case. It's just two different products. And I, for

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example, I always thought that that would like that's the way it is that fresh pasta

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is better than dried pasta. But then, you know, like relatively recently, I found out

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that it's not that the dried pasta, it has a very, there's a very intricate process to

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making it and that, you know, also Italian chefs say there's certain things that they

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just wouldn't do with fresh pasta, just as there's certain things that it wouldn't do

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with dried pasta, you know?

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Yeah, I completely agree. And actually, if we talk about Italians, it's super interesting

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because there are like, I don't know, like 100 different types of pasta, and each one

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has its own function. Some are done for specific sauces, the way they're shaped has also to

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do to absorb the sauce or so that the sauce sticks to the piece of pasta and all these

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kind of things that are super relevant when it comes to cooking pasta the Italian way.

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At the same time, what you were just saying about dry versus fresh, I also have to say

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that, of course, there is crappy, cheap, dried pasta. I mean, what do you expect if you buy

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the one that costs 50 cents in the supermarket? It is what it is, you know, but if you get

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like a high quality pasta, sometimes I prefer that better than fresh pasta, actually.

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Yeah, absolutely. Like I said, you know, like both have their place. Like there are things

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that I would make with fresh pasta, but there's like certain things that I would never make

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with fresh pasta, you know, like a cacio e pepe, you know, like just doesn't make sense

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to make it with fresh pasta. It's not what you use for that recipe.

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Could you go through the recipe briefly?

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I mean, a cacio e pepe is basically a pasta in a sort of emulsion of pecorino romano and

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black pepper. You know, it's a very, very simple pasta dish where, you know, you make

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a emulsion with the cheese. It's like a carbonara without the egg and also using guanciale,

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which is the pork chow.

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Guanciale is wild boar, right? Like a boar ham.

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It's not necessarily boar, it's the chow, which is like a piece of meat from the jaw,

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like then the sort of neck underneath kind of like, it's very, very fatty.

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It's the cut, not the animal. Okay.

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Yes. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure that there's guanciale from boar as well, but as far as I know, it's

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not necessarily boar. Okay.

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Yeah. But anyway, this is like a recipe that like you would never make it with fresh pasta.

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You'd always make it with dry pasta. And, you know, like I've heard from a lot of Italian

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chefs that, like you said, you know, it's very important. It's just like sourcing any

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ingredient is deciding on which brand of dried pasta you use because there's huge quality

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differences, you know, you have, you know, really crappy ones, like supermarket ones

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that are super cheap. Then you have sort of like medium ranges like parina and then like

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kind of going up, you have things like the Checo.

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Super fun. It's my super favorite one.

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Exactly. And then if you go like even further up, you have things like Monograni, you know,

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which is the brands that I see a lot of, you know, professional Italians using that make

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Italian food. You know, it's a little bit like when I was in Japan, you know, there

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were certain things that like pickles, for example, like we were buying pickles from

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a factory in the countryside and I would say sort of like, oh, why don't we make the pickles

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like in-house? And they were like, well, there are people who specialize in this, done this

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for generations and they make an extremely good product. And for us, it's like, we're

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really happy that we can work with people who are experts in what they do. It's kind

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of the same, you know, I feel like this perception of dry pasta being like just a convenience

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product is just strong.

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You just remind me of Tampopo when you said Japanese pickles. We need to make that Tampopo

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episode by the way.

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Yeah, definitely a movie reaction.

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So going back to pasta, I would say a few important things about the cooking process,

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because there are a few common misconceptions that I see over and over again in house cooks

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when they're cooking pasta. Because again, this is something everybody knows or thinks

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knows how to cook, especially drunk people. Rule number one, I would say a lot of water.

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Don't cook your pasta in a small pot, half full, don't do that. Just use a generous amount

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of water and wait until it is boiling. That's pretty basic. There are some myths about when

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to add salt, if you should add it before or after the water boils, that doesn't matter

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at all. And then there is this common myth about adding oil to the water. Some people

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say this is something Italian, which is not at all, and which is actually a mistake because

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you want the pasta to be a little bit sticky, just enough so the sauce sticks to the pasta

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and that the pasta is completely coated with sauce. So that this is the reason why some,

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let's say the penne rigate, that's why there are like tubes so that the pasta goes inside

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the tube and all these shapes and also the surface that has this like...

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The riffles.

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Exactly. This is again also to hold the sauce. And another one, of course, another one that

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I see a lot is people straining the pasta and then adding cold water on top. That's

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also a bad move because again, you're washing all the starch away that makes the sauce stick.

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So these are pretty basic rules that every Italian knows.

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And every Italian screams when you see someone doing it wrong.

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Yeah, I think like one of the biggest mistakes that I see people do a lot is that they don't

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salt the water enough. You know, everybody knows that you need to salt the water, but

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it makes such a huge difference, like the amount of salt that you put. When I cook pasta,

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I add salt by feel and let it dissolve and then I taste the water. It should be like

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very savory, you know, it should be kind of like if you would season the soup, you know,

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like that's kind of how salty you want your pasta to be. Because if it's not salty enough,

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then the pasta is going to absorb the water. And at the end you have a pasta that's very

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bland. The pasta itself needs to be a little bit seasoned. Otherwise, you know, your sauce

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can be as nice as it wants, but then, you know, you add this other, you know, often

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it's like one-to-one sauce to pasta and the whole sort of flavor profile just goes down.

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So I think that's one of the most crucial things that like people don't do. They don't

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salt the water enough. And one other thing that like I always find really annoying, especially

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with chefs, you know, chefs do this a lot, is that they really undercook the pasta, right?

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So we all know that overcooking pasta is really awful and everybody wants, everybody loves

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the term al dente, you know, but especially chefs, they take it too far. They just don't

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cook the pasta enough and al pasta should be al dente, super important, but nobody wants

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your crunchy chewy pasta for star food, man, you know, sort of like you got to hit the

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right spot.

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Yeah, but there's on that. I think everybody has said, man, I've done that at least once.

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Yeah, of course, especially at three o'clock in the morning when you make yourself like

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a quick sort of like feta cheese and canned bean pasta and then you just don't cook it

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enough and you're crunching away and you're sort of like, and you feel even shitty on

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yourself than you did before.

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You know, the worst drunken pasta story I have, dude, we were, we took like a road trip

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and we arrived at this like a house next to the beach. We were completely drunk. Everybody

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we were like looking in the fridge of this house, what we found and that there were some

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cans of tomato and some pasta. So we cooked some pasta and after we ate the whole thing,

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somebody said, okay, now I can say the truth. Do you want to know the truth? We just cooked

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the pasta with swimming pool water because there wasn't anything else.

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No, but you can't be serious.

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Yeah, I know.

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That is terrible.

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It was a long time ago. Another common mistake about cooking pasta at home that I see a lot,

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a lot of people do this. Perhaps most people do this is not mixing the sauce with the pasta,

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like serving the dry pasta and putting the sauce on top to the dish and then doing whatever

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and Italians always make the sauce with the pasta and then serve it if I'm not wrong.

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Right?

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Absolutely. I feel like surely there's situations where you don't do that, you know, but like

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in general for sure. And I mean, even finishing the pasta the last like minute or so inside

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of the sauce.

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Exactly. Yeah.

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Yeah. Makes a huge difference.

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Yeah. Because then you get like this penne rigate filled with the sauce inside the tube

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and whatever shape you're using, you're making the magic at that moment and you can mix it

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as aggressively as in a pot in your dish.

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Yeah, absolutely. And like people, this like thing of Monte Care, you know, this process,

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people really underestimate that they completely skip that process, you know, that step. They

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think they make the sauce, they make the pasta, they put the soup together and it's done,

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you know. But I mean, this doesn't, you know, you don't have to do it or you shouldn't do

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it with every sort of pasta dish, you know, but like more often than not, you know, finishing

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the sauce, letting those like the starch release into the sauce, you know, and having the pasta

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like absorb a little bit of, you know, what you're cooking it in, it makes a huge difference.

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And also, you know, like I feel like people are kind of scared using pasta water to let

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out their sauces while I find that it makes a huge difference, you know. Take for example,

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a pesto, right? And the pesto is usually, like even if you don't make it yourself, you

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buy a pesto in the supermarket, you know, and it's usually quite dry. If you take like just

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pasta, cook it, strain it, and then add the pesto and mix it in, it's going to be really,

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really dry. If you keep a little bit of pasta water from the very end of the cooking process,

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then you add two or three tablespoons. The whole thing becomes creamy and like juicy.

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The pasta is coated and makes a huge difference. And nobody really does that. I think people

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are scared because they see this like salty soupy water.

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That's something every chef knows. Yeah. Every chef that has worked in a pasta station. Yeah,

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absolutely. So do you have any favorite sauce?

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Oh, man, I have a lot. Okay, so I'm a huge fan of aglio e olio because I've eaten so

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many really bad versions of aglio e olio. Because I mean, it's really just it's so simple,

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right? It's just olive oil, garlic, and a little bit of pepperoncini. And then you know,

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some people add pasta to it, some people don't. But usually it's just oily, garlicky mess,

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right? And that's how I've kind of known it.

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Nice. Yeah, I mean, it has its place. But if you

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make it right, and you know, you kind of see the garlic a little bit of olive oil, you

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pull it to a side, together with the pepperoncini, then you add the pasta into it with a little

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bit of the liquid, and you just give it that little bit of time. It makes this like oil

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water emulsion that's just really, really creamy and slick. And also, you know, like

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chopped parsley in it. And I also I add like a little bit of squeeze of lemon juice to

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it because I feel like it cuts through it. It helps that like emulsion. And it's so simple.

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But if you get that emulsion right, it's super, super tasty.

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There is a simple one. I don't know if this has a name. I mean, I do like, like a carbonara,

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just egg yolks, and then just a shitloads of botarga. Do you know botarga? Of course.

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Man, it's like ocean parmesan.

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That sounds amazing. That sounds really good. What's your go to drunk pasta dish when you

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come home and just wake up in the morning?

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Depends on what I have. I mean, if I have like this fried tomato from the jar, I will

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use that with parmesan. I sometimes do, I wanted to say my favorite sauce is probably puttanesca.

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Yeah.

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And sometimes I do like drunk puttanescas because I usually have anchovies. I always

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have lots of hot sauces. Perhaps I have some black olive puree somewhere and I just throw

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everything into the sauce and I make like a quick puttanesca.

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Yeah, that sounds really good. I used to like my go to one that I always used to make was

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also starting with like a shitload of garlic and a shitload of chili. Just make it really,

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really spicy and really garlicky. And then add the tomato, let that cook a little bit.

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But you know, you want it to be quick. You just kind of want it to reduce it down a little

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bit. And then you add like a big spoon of Philadelphia cream cheese. And you just add

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that in and it becomes this like cream cheese tomato sauce. It's kind of like pink, like

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a vodka sauce, you know, but like a spicy, that always hit the spot, you know, it was

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kind of like sitting there, you know, in your boxer shorts, just like eating straight out

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of the pan.

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Oh man, you just remind me, my friend Blanca once made like a lasagna. She just mixed a

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bolognese and a bechamel and she mixed everything. So it was like this creamy bolognese and she

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made the lasagna with that. And what I did was like a variation of that, which was like

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dirty lasagna. I don't know how to call it because it's not really a layered lasagna.

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It was just taking this big tubes, rigatones, and mixing it with this kind of sauce and

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then putting it on a tray and making a rattan out of it with lots of cheese on top. So you

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could actually cut and take slices out of it. But that mixture of making like a tomato

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sauce and mixing it with something creamy, it's really, really nice.

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Yeah, it's really good. It's really nice. I like that idea with the, with the cannelloni.

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It's that's really good. Yeah, rigatones. And I also, I have really nostalgic memories

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of pesto, the like my stepdad used to make fresh at home. And he would always mix it

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with the pasta, but it would also have like little pieces of boiled potato in it. Oh nice.

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Yeah. But which is weird because like you don't usually mix carbs and carbs, but it

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was super, super nice. But there are also some strange rices here in Spain that are

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also with potato. Oh yeah. Yeah. You know, talking about rice, one of my favorite pasta

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shapes is also because that's one that you can just like cook like a risotto in sauce

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and it gets this really sort of like slippery texture, you know, like, especially if you

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have like, like a cheese sauce kind of thing, it's super, super nice.

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Like Bordaveri risotto maybe? Exactly. Exactly like that. Bordaveri is this legendary pincho

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bar here in San Sebastian. And they do a risotto, which is not made with rice, but with also

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this rice shaped pasta and they do it with like a high quality Villasalva cheese. So

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it's a super nice way to try Villasalva cheese. There is something I always say and people

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hate me for it. When I show this to foreigners, I say, yeah, this is like the best mac and

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cheese. No. And after the whole explanation, people go like, oh, okay. Okay. Now I get

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it. Yeah, you're right. You're right. It's a classic now, you know, it's a classic dish.

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I wanted to ask you what are your secrets on a good pesto? On a good pesto, it has to

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be allamineutrient. Yeah, it's really not that difficult. I've seen people blanching

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the herbs, which I don't see the need of it. You just put everything together in a blender,

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blend it and use it right away. As you say. I think like if you really want to go next

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level, you know, you do it in a big mortar and pestle and you almost whip it kind of

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like you would do with a rii or with an aioli, you know, and then, you know, you make it

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and then you eat it. You know, like I see a lot of people and like I've done a lot of

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times in restaurants also making huge batches of pesto, you know, putting it in jars, putting

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a fill of oil on top and then kind of putting it in the fridge. And I just feel like that

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takes away from the essence of it. Yeah, the magic, you know, when you make it in a pestle

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and mortar and you get it right, it's really vibrant and green and it's really beautiful.

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I also think that like toasting the pine nuts is really key. Like if you don't do it too

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hard, you do slowly whenever you toast seeds and that's, you know, so it gets the heat

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gets into the very center and you don't just have these like burns outside parts. I also

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think that's suddenly expected. So what are the ingredients again? Basil, olive oil, roasted

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pine nuts, a little bit of garlic and anything else and Parmesan, of course. Yeah. But that's

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basically it now. Yeah. Yeah. When you make it and you get it into be a sort of emulsion,

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I think it's very, very nice. Another sauce that I like a lot is Alamatriciana. Oh yeah.

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That's usually done with bucatini and that's really nice. I really like that too. It's

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like a standard tomato sauce just with chunks of bacon. Yeah. What I think makes a difference

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there also is that it has, it starts off with like sweating down onions also some versions

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of I've eaten, they were not too fine. They were kind of like a little bit chockier and

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just like just before caramelizing, you know, just like not brown, but kind of there. And

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I feel like that gave it like a real nice sweetness and then together with the bacon,

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you know, something that really caught my attention recently. I saw someone traveling

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to Naples. No, it was actually Bologna and they posted like a Bologna sauce. And I was

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like, what? This is nothing like my archetype of the Bologna sauce doesn't look like that.

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This was like a light brown beef sauce. It seemed to have no tomato at all. And I was

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like, okay, that's unexpected. There are many things like this, like many misconceptions

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of sauces that since pasta is so global and people eat pasta everywhere, you would see

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like these kinds of things that like meatballs and spaghetti that were invented in some Disney

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movie and people think that's Italian, but non-Italian have ever seen meatballs on, on

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spaghetti or like the carbonara. Some people have this pasteurized version that is made

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with cream and you know, and there are all of these past recipes and versions do not

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correspond with the original one. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, like you say, it's become

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such a, such a huge thing, you know, that's kind of like, I think we spoke about it in

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the cultural appropriation episodes, you know, like how things develop further, you know,

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once they start getting adapted by a new food culture. So it's, it's really interesting

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to see. Also, you know, that pasta isn't usually eaten as a main course, that it's usually

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your part of a bigger sort of like menu. It's usually like a side dish. I mean, not a side

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dish as in like a starter. And you just get like a very small dish at the beginning. And

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that's a standard Italian menu. You start with a small pasta dish and then you have

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whatever. And you never the main course and it's never like this big plate of pasta that

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we're used to. Yeah, it's not how we how we're doing it these days where pasta is just this

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thing that you cook way too much of and then eat it until you hate yourself, you know,

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like it's which I feel like is what most people do. They just cook way too much. And then

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afterwards, they're just like, Oh my god, I just can't get any more down my gutter.

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Another one never break your spaghetti, please. Yeah, I mean, you know, you break the spaghetti,

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you break my heart.

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That's it for this week's episode of potluck food talks. If you like what we're doing,

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