1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:11,080 Hi everyone, welcome to Potluck Food Talks. Today I have a special guest, my friend Luis. 2 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:17,240 I can make a very personal introduction about Luis. I've known him for over 20 years. So 3 00:00:17,240 --> 00:00:23,780 I've seen his complete progress since he started working as a chef until now. He was already 4 00:00:23,780 --> 00:00:30,480 an engineer when he started cooking. Then I visited him working and graduating from 5 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:36,400 the Venezuelan Gastronomic Academy, SEGA. And next thing I know he's sous chef at Cosmed 6 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:43,120 and chef tournante at Blanca. And now he's running a place in Brooklyn called Ensenada, 7 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:50,200 which is focused on seafood, cooked in the style of Baja California. And it got featured 8 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:54,520 on the Michelin Guide this year as well. So what's up, Luis? 9 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:56,920 What's up guys? How you doing? Thank you for having me here. 10 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:02,760 So like the main topic of Ensenada, we could say are the guachiles, right? Or at least 11 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:05,080 a very important feature in the menu. 12 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:11,040 Yeah. So Ensenada was born this year, beginning of this year. Actually, I started conversation 13 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:16,280 with my partner, Bryce, I would say like September, 2021, just to explain a little bit about the 14 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:21,360 restaurant. My partner Bryce, he had the space already called Black Flamingo. So he had a 15 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:26,720 vegan taco restaurant upstairs and then a nightclub downstairs. After the pandemic, of 16 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:32,320 course, you know, all the rules changed. Basically there was no rules. He always had this dream, 17 00:01:32,320 --> 00:01:37,560 this idea of like having a coastal Mexican restaurant. And he was looking for a space. 18 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:42,560 And after the pandemic, because that Black Flamingo wasn't doing that great, you know, 19 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:46,440 we met through a mutual friend, Maria, we used to be a bartending there. And he was 20 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:49,040 like, you know what, I'm going to close this shit down. It's not working out. It's not 21 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:53,800 what I want to do. I don't like vegan cuisine anymore. So you want to transform the space 22 00:01:53,800 --> 00:02:01,000 into here. I'm like, I mean, I was never honestly planning on opening a Mexican seafood restaurant. 23 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:05,520 That was not in my cards, but I was like, oh, like, you know, I love to do that. This 24 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:09,400 one loves to do. I love Mexican food. Why not? You know, and then we switched up the 25 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:14,600 concept. We kept the club downstairs. So we still have a club Friday and Saturdays and 26 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:20,160 we open in February of this year. It's been a nice ride. So we, yeah, we do, we call it 27 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:26,320 a Latin American seafood concept, but it's not, I would say it's like 95% Mexican. I 28 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:31,360 would say the aguachiles are the backbone of the menu. It's my favorite part. So you 29 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:34,200 have the aguachiles and everything like stands from that. 30 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:39,800 I got to know it for the first time. I would say not so long ago, about six, seven years 31 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:47,280 ago is first time I heard about it. And I remember having one at Ojasanta in Barcelona. 32 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:52,080 How would you explain it and how is it different from ceviche, which is perhaps better known 33 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:53,080 worldwide? 34 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:57,560 Yeah. So I mean, ceviche, the first time I heard about ceviche was obviously through 35 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:02,680 the Peruvian cuisine, which has a very strong influence in Venezuela, where we grew up and 36 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:06,480 like we went to culinary school. Like, you know about ceviche since you're a kid, you 37 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:10,800 know, and as a Venezuelan, you obviously know when you hear ceviche, you think about Peru, 38 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:12,800 you know, ceviche is Peruvian period. 39 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:18,160 Then it's funny because I would say that there is this own style of ceviche in Venezuela 40 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:22,760 in Caracas. Yeah. For instance, I like the ají dulce, which is really characteristic 41 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:28,620 of Venezuelan cuisine. And you won't find that in Peru. You won't make a ceviche without 42 00:03:28,620 --> 00:03:30,040 it in Caracas. 43 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:33,560 That is true. That is very true. What type of pepper do they use in Peru? 44 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:38,840 Ají amarillo usually and rocoto it depends. No, and ají limón. I think that there are 45 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:41,200 like different, yeah, different approaches. 46 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:45,240 Interesting. Yeah. I mean, that's crazy because I always thought because, you know, that's 47 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:51,160 how I learned to make ceviche. Ceviche was fish, lime juice, red onion, ají dulce and 48 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:52,160 cilantro. 49 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:53,160 Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. 50 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:57,520 I always thought that the Peruvians had ají dulce as well. And I thought I was like, okay, 51 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,760 this is Peruvian. And then, you know, you start like doing research, you start traveling, 52 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:04,800 you start seeing other things. You see how they use like the sweet potato. They put the 53 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:10,080 sweet potato in it. There's a variation with the hominy corn as well, you know, and the 54 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:15,120 rocoto and the ají amarillo and all that. So, it's interesting. Turns out Mexicans have 55 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:20,200 ceviche as well. And their ceviche is pretty interesting because it's like the fish is 56 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:26,240 like mad cooked. It's like marinated for days in the lime juice. So, it's a fish that is 57 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:32,840 like, I mean, in my opinion, overcooked, you know. It's that kind of ceviche that, you 58 00:04:32,840 --> 00:04:36,040 know, you would take to the beach with your friends. You like mix like a bunch of fish 59 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:40,160 with lime juice and onions and peppers in a cooler and they bring it to the beach. And 60 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:46,240 then you eat that for like three or four days. You know. So, the ceviche I make at the restaurant 61 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:52,120 is more towards Peruvian flavors than the Mexican. Me and Bryce went to Ensenada back 62 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:54,080 in May to do some research to eat. 63 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:57,760 Ensenada is a region, a village, what exactly? 64 00:04:57,760 --> 00:04:58,760 It's a city. 65 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:00,120 It's a city. Okay. 66 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:05,000 It's about an hour and a half drive south from Tijuana. It's like a road city, you know, 67 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:09,520 like, and it's a big port. To me, it was like a very ugly, a lot of like outlaw kind of 68 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:14,480 vibe, you know, like renegades and all that shit. They go to high there, strip clubs. 69 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:18,440 They have the two bars that they both claim that they invented the margarita. You know, 70 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:22,840 it has like an interesting culture, but the food is like next level. So, about the ceviche 71 00:05:22,840 --> 00:05:27,120 there is interesting because the traditional ceviches in Ensenada, they put the fish in 72 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:32,680 a food processor. So, they basically make almost like a puree of fish. Very, very blended. 73 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:37,880 Put the lime juice and you basically end up with like canned fish texture. Like, you know 74 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:41,200 what I mean? And then they spread that on a costada. That's the ceviche. 75 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:46,160 Oh really? Okay. Yeah. Because in Peru it's quite common. Like the leche de tigre, which 76 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:51,800 it literally means tiger milk. Yeah. The marinade for the ceviche, it's quite common to use 77 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:58,280 like fish broth and this kind of things, pieces of the fish and mix it with vegetables and 78 00:05:58,280 --> 00:06:01,800 lots of lime juice and chili. Yeah. So, that's what I do at the restaurant. 79 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:06,120 I do a leche de tigre for the ceviche. We have like a huele de la vida as well. So yeah, 80 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:11,520 the leche de tigre is basically, this is the way I learned it. You incorporate all the 81 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:16,760 elements of the ceviche into a blender, including pieces of fish. You do a fish stock with the 82 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:21,240 bones of the fish. That's your base and then you blend everything up and that's your like 83 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:27,440 juice for the ceviche along with the lime juice. The ceviche itself is the pureed fish. 84 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:30,480 And then you basically add like a sashimi to it. 85 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:32,600 Not even. No, no, no. No, no, no. That's a ceviche. 86 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:36,960 No, no. But I mean at Ensenada you put like pieces of raw fish on top. 87 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:41,520 Ah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So they're like in Ensenada at the restaurant, I mix 88 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:46,600 it with raw fish. Exactly. Yeah. Very lightly marinated in lime juice. So it's barely cooked 89 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:52,680 on the outside. I'm not a fan of that super like cooked in citrus fish. You know, I'd 90 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:56,880 rather keep it raw. That's also something I learned, as you said, many times when you 91 00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:04,000 learned ceviche from home cooks, you get to hear this marinated for some hours or this 92 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:09,360 kind of things. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. When I went to Peru, like in ceviche bars or even 93 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:14,760 in let's say a buffet in a hotel, you will have like a ceviche chef and he will mix it 94 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:19,960 in front of you and serve it to you. So the fish is going to be just a few minutes and 95 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:22,440 then marinate. And that's also the way I like it. 96 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:26,600 And that's the way they do aguachile in Mexico. You know, aguachile, like you were asking 97 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:30,480 about the difference between aguachile and ceviche. Aguachile, first of all, is very 98 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:36,800 slightly marinated fish. So it's like pretty much raw as like the Peruvian ceviche and 99 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:43,000 usually spicier. And then you can do many types of it. As I understand it, aguachile 100 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:49,440 is originating in Sinaloa. It's a Sinaloan dish that actually started as a, it didn't 101 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:54,400 even start as a being a seafood dish because what they used to do, so it's in the Sinaloan 102 00:07:54,400 --> 00:08:00,000 Maltes, obviously they didn't have any fish. What they did was boil meat with chiles. So 103 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:05,840 it's literally water, agua, and chile, chile, you know. So they boil the meat in like this 104 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:10,800 chile broth basically. And that was the birth of the aguachile. Eventually when, you know, 105 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:14,640 they started immigrating down to the cities and to the coast, they started incorporating 106 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:22,280 this recipe into seafood, you know. But aguachile is a very like, this is as far as I understand, 107 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:28,000 very humble and you know, poor people recipe that started out as just like boil water with 108 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:33,280 chiles. And sometimes I read somewhere that sometimes people didn't even have meat, you 109 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:38,520 know, to put on the dish. So it was literally water with chiles, the happy thing called 110 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:44,560 these hueso paseado, where it's just like a bone of meat and then you pass it to the 111 00:08:44,560 --> 00:08:48,160 different dishes to at least get some like of the meat flavor. And then it was just like 112 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:52,240 water, chile, and they eat that with tortillas. That was it. 113 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:56,880 You mentioned before, vuelve la vida. I would like to make a zoom on that. Vuelve la vida 114 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:01,240 is something you get in Venezuela when you go to the beach and these are usually like 115 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:05,560 street food vendors and they usually have vuelve la vida, siete potencias. I don't know 116 00:09:05,560 --> 00:09:09,640 if it uses the same thing with a different name, but there are like this variation of 117 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:15,920 basically is boiled seafood, seafood, like fruto de mare, where there are lots of things 118 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:24,000 they put like ketchup, Worcestershire sauce, Tabasco, lime juice. I don't know what else. 119 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:25,280 What's your version of it? 120 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:29,880 So the version I do at the restaurant is the Venezuela one. These little like variations 121 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:34,920 of things is like why we don't dare to like really call it a Mexican place. Although that's 122 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:40,160 what we're like labeled as. But you know, the vuelve la vida is one of those hints to 123 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:44,360 Venezuela that I like to keep because that's what I grew up eating. I learned later. We 124 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:49,320 had it in Ensenada. We used to do it at Cosme. Like there's a vuelve la vida in Mexico as 125 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:50,320 well. 126 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:51,320 Oh, wow. I didn't know that. 127 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:55,200 And you can find it in Ensenada in the city. You can find it in any like, you know, those 128 00:09:55,200 --> 00:10:00,520 seafood food trucks. In my experience from what I had or what I tried is way like, you 129 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:04,680 know how vuelve la vida in Venezuela is like a little thick because it's traditionally 130 00:10:04,680 --> 00:10:09,640 used made with ketchup. The Mexican version is way more loose. It's more watery. I don't 131 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:14,280 think they use ketchup in general. I think it's more like a clamado base cocktail. And 132 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:18,840 then they use this like, you know, a little Valentina, a little Cholula. That's the spice 133 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:23,920 they use for the cocktail versus us using like ketchup as a base. I do Worcestershire. 134 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:29,200 I do lime juice. I do vinegar, a little pureed onion and garlic and cilantro chopped in there. 135 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:32,560 And what kind of seafoods do you use for the vuelve la vida? 136 00:10:32,560 --> 00:10:38,560 So basically your menu is relatively small, but then you can do any aguachile, any ceviche, 137 00:10:38,560 --> 00:10:43,360 any vuelve la vida. You can do either just fish. You can do either just shrimp or you 138 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:48,080 can do a campechano, which is a mix of all the seafood that we have available. So you 139 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,880 can do a scallop, octopus, fish and shrimp. 140 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:55,680 Basically you build your marinade and your fish and you build your own combination. 141 00:10:55,680 --> 00:11:00,960 Yeah, exactly. So what is like three, four dishes, it end up being like 20 different 142 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:02,720 niches that you can play with. 143 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:08,640 A unique thing about the place is the vibe because it doesn't feel luxurious at all, 144 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:14,000 but it doesn't feel casual either. So it's like you feel you're like in a well prepared 145 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:20,760 restaurant, but whatever the waiter is wearing sneakers. And that's coherent with a restaurant 146 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:25,000 located in Brooklyn, at least for me. I was with a Basque friend and she wouldn't eat 147 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:31,560 so much spicy. So we had like the less spicy version of it, which was still a little bit 148 00:11:31,560 --> 00:11:37,280 spicy, but still she said she would happily return with her family if she's back in New 149 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:42,640 York. I think it was, could it be scallop or do you don't serve scallop? I think I have 150 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:45,280 the memory of scallop in my aguachile. 151 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:50,320 We do have scallops. Yeah, we do have scallops. There's a, so we have a scallop tostada that 152 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:52,000 is not traditional at all. 153 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:56,560 Ah, yeah, exactly. The scallop was in the tostada. Yeah, that was amazing that one. 154 00:11:56,560 --> 00:12:02,640 Yeah, I do it. So it's a base of labneh. Raw scallops are marinated with a sauce that I 155 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:06,960 make with toasted seeds. Like I call it salsa seca. So it's basically this bunch of seeds 156 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:12,080 that have been fried in olive oil with shallots, garlic, add a little bit of pepper flakes. 157 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:16,520 So I don't know. I think there's some Italian about it. And then just like a little julienne 158 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:19,600 of jicama and green apple on top and some cilantro. That's it. 159 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:24,480 Where do you get your products from? Like in general, like your fish and seafood? 160 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:29,280 I work with two purveyors that have been working here in New York for years and they're, you 161 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:35,680 know, like very well known in the industry. One is called Lipre Sons, basically run by 162 00:12:35,680 --> 00:12:40,480 this amazing lady called Sherry. I think it's second generation. Her father started the 163 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:45,060 company based in Long Island. You know, they're like Jewish from Long Island and it's crazy 164 00:12:45,060 --> 00:12:50,040 how she, it's basically like a one woman operation because she, no matter where she is, like 165 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:55,240 you see her Instagram and she's slinging fucking cancun on vacation and she's taking the orders. 166 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:59,600 Like you text her at midnight and she says thank you and she says the order the next 167 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:04,060 day. You know what I mean? We get a lot of like fish from Long Island, Maltauk, New Jersey. 168 00:13:04,060 --> 00:13:09,120 So she's got like my local fish purveyor. And then I work with another one called Aquabase. 169 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:13,520 They're based in Chinatown and they're like third generation also. So the kids are running 170 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:20,080 the place now that their grandparents founded in Chinatown. I would say he's more globally 171 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:24,880 oriented. Like he's like, yo, like, like I go there and check what he has. And he's like, 172 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:29,800 yo, I got it plucking in Sonata. I'm flying there tomorrow. Like, you know, we're trying 173 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:33,520 to get local fish from there. So I'll tell you what we have. So anything you need, like, 174 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:37,560 you know, like we can like fly like overnight, basically, you know? So what I get with them, 175 00:13:37,560 --> 00:13:43,040 I get the octopus from Spain. I get some very, very nice blue shrimp from South Asia, 176 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:47,440 East Asia, you know? And then he have like Japanese stuff and like all that. So I play 177 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:51,080 with both of them, you know, based on what they have. Our idea with the restaurant was 178 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:56,280 to, I think we thought it was going to be more casual than what it became. It was going 179 00:13:56,280 --> 00:14:01,080 to be more like Tascamites and Yuko Mien and you know, it's loud and like the presentation 180 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:05,120 doesn't necessarily need to be like as nice as perfect. I like, I don't know why, just 181 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:11,120 organically or GM Jen, she also worked with me at Cosme. She's working like Michel Star 182 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:16,760 places. So she's got like a, her standard of service is a little higher than we anticipated. 183 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:21,280 Like we, we started out with like paper napkins and now we have like Liden napkins and those 184 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:24,800 kinds of things. And like we resettle the plates for every course, you know, we were 185 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:29,240 never like thinking of having like a course style of being, you know, basically like the 186 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:33,520 reference we had, like when we opened the restaurant, we like most of the reference 187 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:38,760 we had was like Aguachile's places in New York, you know? And we kind of want to do 188 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:44,360 like that, but with our twist of flavors are like kind of being like known like, oh yeah, 189 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:49,120 we have the, you know, the green and red Aguachile. We want to like push it a little bit further, 190 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,840 especially when it came to flavor. So it organically became this thing that you experienced and 191 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:58,520 it was like, kind of like a nice restaurant, but not fancy, you know, and kind of like 192 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:01,480 good service, but not like uptight, you know? 193 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:07,600 And another dish that we had that was super fun to eat was like this appetizer that was 194 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:12,880 like tortillas with eight different sauces. Like are these like all Mexican sauces or 195 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,480 are there also like twists from other places? 196 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:19,920 No, sorry. Just like straight up Mexican sauces that I learned with the years, like with my 197 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:25,040 time in Cosme, we like going down to Mexico and eating, I just like looking up books and 198 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:30,080 recipes, you know? So they're very like, I would say like standard, you know, like, like 199 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:35,800 traditional Mexican sauces. We have the matcha, which the matcha is like, it's been, I wouldn't 200 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:40,160 say controversial, but it's been like in everybody's mouths in the past couple of years in New 201 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:43,240 York. Like everybody knows what it is at this point. 202 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:44,240 What is it exactly? 203 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:50,320 Salsa matcha. So salsa matcha is a, is a very typical sauce that consists in dried chilies 204 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:56,760 that are fried in oil and they just process with any type of nut or seed. So traditionally 205 00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:02,040 it's like the one I've seen the most is made with peanuts and then you usually have a smoky 206 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:08,480 chili in the mix. So you see the morita or pasilla mije or chipotle, you know, it's got 207 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:13,680 some smokiness to it, but there's like a thousand different ways that you can go about it. You 208 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:17,240 know, you can do, you can do any type of nut, you can do almonds, you can do peanuts, you 209 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:22,440 can do all those. I remember there was one of my friends from Cosme, Milton, he's a sous 210 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:27,480 chef there now. He started like a matcha business during the pandemic. He was called to matcha 211 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:32,160 nyc.com and he was, I mean, I tried a couple of those and they were pretty good. And he 212 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:36,920 would like do a new recipe every week. So he would come up with like salt flour seed 213 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:39,720 matcha this week. We have a pine nut one. 214 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:42,520 This was the one with pumpkin seeds in your version? 215 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:48,920 Oh no, that's the sikilpak. So that one is like a, like a Mayan recipe that is basically 216 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:54,680 more like a dip. Has sikilpak is like Mayan for, I don't remember what it stands for, 217 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:59,760 but it's like tomato and pumpkin seed basically. So it's basically like a dip, like a spicy 218 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:01,960 dip. That's one of my favorite sauces. 219 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:09,240 Yeah, I remember that one. And the other one that I remember that was addictive was pineapple 220 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:15,720 butter that came with the fish, al pastor, the fish was cut like in a butterfly and then 221 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:21,360 brushed with an adobo if I'm not wrong, roasted and then some vegetables on top and the pineapple 222 00:17:21,360 --> 00:17:22,360 butter. 223 00:17:22,360 --> 00:17:26,000 The pineapple butter, the man, that's he, like everybody loves that. Like everybody 224 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:30,120 like leaks the restaurant talking about it because he's, he's just so good. That's, that's 225 00:17:30,120 --> 00:17:34,200 a recipe that I stole from Cosme straight up. I can take credit for that. 226 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,640 I think that's a classic classic from Olvera if I'm not wrong. 227 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:42,680 Yeah, yeah. I think he had it at Pujol. He used to do like a tataki. So like a barely 228 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:48,680 seared fish. So actually like that's the first time I saw a pastor recipe not being applied 229 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:52,920 to port. Like it was the first one I saw him doing it. And then we've did a version at 230 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:58,640 Cosme when I started there back in 2014 in the opening menu, it was a cobia tataki al 231 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:04,520 pastor. And then it came with this like pineapple puree and just like this baby pineapple slices 232 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:10,280 on top and then tortillas on the side. So basically the brancino is my kind of like my old true 233 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:14,760 that, you know, like seafood restaurant, uh, Mexican, you gotta have some fish al pastor, 234 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:18,760 you know, and then like everybody does it now. Like I remember there's a restaurant here 235 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:23,120 called Taqueria Ramirez, which is pretty good. It's like one of the, I would say probably 236 00:18:23,120 --> 00:18:29,680 the only taqueria that I know in New York that actually does like Mexico city style, 237 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:33,960 you know, the choricera, they throw everything in, they cook everything in the lard and then 238 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:38,480 just like put in the taco. That's it. But they did a pop up a few months ago and they 239 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:43,880 did a monkfish al pastor and they made a trompo with monkfish pieces, rub al pastor with the 240 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:47,840 pineapple on top, which was very interesting. So there's people doing creative stuff, you 241 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:49,800 know, there's people like switching it up. 242 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:55,200 Yeah. Another dish I wanted to ask you about and I, I couldn't have that one. I already 243 00:18:55,200 --> 00:19:00,840 ate too much at that point. What's the, the softshell crab. What can you say about that 244 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:01,840 dish? 245 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:07,800 Oh yeah. That's gone now. Cause that's a softshell crab. It's in the summer. It's in every restaurant 246 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:13,320 in New York. That's one of those like staple, like East, North East coast thing that like, 247 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:17,320 I mean, it's so good that it's hard to not put it on the menu. And there's like a million 248 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:20,800 variations. People usually fry it. That's, that's the one I've seen the most here in 249 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:25,840 New York. So basically the season, I would say it's like mid July to mid September. It's 250 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:30,160 really a short season is when it's warmer. It's when the crabs go out of the water and 251 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:35,040 they start like changing the shell. So at that exact time is when they catch it. And 252 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:40,320 you know, it's like member like, like texture, you touch the shell and it's like soft, like 253 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:41,320 jelly. 254 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:43,480 Like a cartilage, something like that. Right? 255 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:47,640 Yeah. Yeah. So like kind of like chewy, but like kind of crunchy also depends on how you 256 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:52,160 cook it. So you can eat the whole fucking crap. Amazing. You know, summer is a very interesting 257 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:55,560 season for restaurants in New York. Cause you have everything available. You have the 258 00:19:55,560 --> 00:20:00,200 best tomatoes, you know, you have the best seafood. So I did a version. It was crazy 259 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:04,200 cause I was trying to do a Thai papaya salad version with softshell crab. I mean, Thai 260 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:08,920 food here is big and it's one of my favorite foods to eat when I go out in New York. There's 261 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:13,480 so many good places. It was, it was actually, I beat that dish by accident, honestly, cause 262 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:17,680 I was like trying to do a papaya salad with softshell crab, which I didn't want to fry. 263 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:22,000 We were doing it like butter based on a pan, which I think it like preserves the, like 264 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:27,120 the crab flavor way better. You still get that like chewy, but like also crunchy texture 265 00:20:27,120 --> 00:20:30,800 of the crab, you know? And I remember the papayas that they came in and they weren't 266 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,800 green enough. They were like kind of ripe. And I was like, damn, I'm not going to be 267 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:37,680 able to pull this off. And one of my friends was like, why don't you use mellow? We have 268 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:41,960 a sheet of melon downstairs and I grabbed like a honeydew melon and I shaped it like 269 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:46,760 in the same way you would do a papaya for a Thai salad. And you know, it became this 270 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:53,360 like sweet and sour and like salty dish that worked really well with the, with the brightness 271 00:20:53,360 --> 00:20:56,080 of the crab. So it became being like a mellow salad. 272 00:20:56,080 --> 00:21:03,800 Yeah. I think melon works super well and savory. Yes. It's like a cucumber and the sweetness 273 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:09,280 is like the one you want in a super sweet tomato. Exactly. So if you add salt and let's 274 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:13,400 say olive oil or whatever, it works super well. It was one of those like crazy good 275 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:18,080 accidents that happened in the kitchen. And honestly, that dish was like created by mistake. 276 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:22,040 And then what I did was like all the, like the trimmings of the crab, I made a broth 277 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:26,480 and I did kind of like a dashi. So that was like the base for the dish. And then just 278 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:30,200 like you would do a papaya salad, you would toss the melon with some fish sauce, sesame 279 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:36,240 oil, you know, lime juice, lots of serrano peppers, crushed peanuts, cilantro, onions. 280 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:39,560 And then I would finish it with some like light lister, salt-boiled tomatoes, which 281 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:43,080 that's another thing that you can only find here for like a mall. For those who don't 282 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:47,640 know salt-boiled tomatoes is like this little like cherry tomato that's yellow that I haven't 283 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:52,200 seen anywhere else, but like Northeast coast, you know, in the United States. And it's my 284 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:56,600 favorite tomato ever. It's like the sweetest tomato you could ever try. So people go crazy 285 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:00,440 about that during the summer as well. Like people do dishes that are just like salt-boiled 286 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:04,480 tomatoes, you know, salt-boiled tomatoes everywhere, salt-boiled tomato pizza. You see it everywhere 287 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:05,480 in the summer. 288 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:09,080 One last topic I wanted to talk about with you is what we were talking just before the 289 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:15,160 interview, like how has been the reception from the public, you being Venezuelan and 290 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:21,920 cooking Mexican cuisine, how do people perceive it? Are there any critics? How do you respond 291 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:23,800 to them in general? 292 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:29,160 I think that subject here in New York being the melting pot that it is, is not really 293 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:33,400 an issue. People don't really care as long as the food is good. And you know, like you're 294 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:39,800 like presenting a culture with respect, you know, like me being Latin America and I somehow, 295 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,320 you know, feel identified with like, we went through like a very similar shit, you know, 296 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:48,080 with all the colonization and all that. And I think I have a lot of respect for Mexican 297 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:54,080 culture in a sense that I'm almost like envious of how well they were able to preserve the 298 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:58,640 pre-Hispanic culture, like astronomically speaking, but like generally speaking, you 299 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:02,240 know, they were able to like, I don't know if there was like more documentation before 300 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:07,120 the fucking Spaniards came or what was it, but like, you don't really see that in Venezuela. 301 00:23:07,120 --> 00:23:11,960 Like you don't really see when you try like Venezuelan food or Colombian or like, you 302 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:16,000 know, like I would say like South American food in general, like except for Peruvian 303 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:23,200 maybe like it's way more influenced by Hispanic culture than Mexican. I mean, you obviously 304 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:27,760 see the ingredients and all it's like, you have like fish ala vera cruzada, which is 305 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:31,840 basically like a clash of the two cultures, but like they pretty much cooking how they 306 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:36,280 were cooking before the Spaniards came, you know, that's very admirable. 307 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:41,200 What's the, this dish you just mentioned, this fish ala vera cruzada, well, 308 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:46,200 fish ala vera cruzada is basically like a, you know, like vaca lao and tomate. 309 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:47,200 Yeah. 310 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:48,880 It's that, it's basically that. 311 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,840 Yeah, like the viscaina sauce, something like that. 312 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:56,800 Exactly. It's exciting like that. So for me, I always put that as an example that that's 313 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:02,560 one of the few Mexican dishes that like, you can really see the Hispanic influence in their 314 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:03,560 food, you know? 315 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:08,240 Yeah. For instance, for me, it's crazy. And it's something I mentioned a lot is the Venezuelan 316 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:14,960 ayaca, which is the Christmas dish is basically a tamal with a stew that can be pork or some 317 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:20,880 other meats. But this stew usually has red wine and raisins and olives, which are like 318 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,520 super Eurocentric ingredients. 319 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:24,520 Yeah. 320 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:30,360 And, and I think it would be really interesting to make versions of that dish that are decolonized, 321 00:24:30,360 --> 00:24:37,680 you know, like you can pickle some, let's say almonds or whatever produce you can find 322 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:44,400 in Venezuela and, and get a very similar taste and the ones from olives, you know, you can 323 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:49,440 replicate the, this kind of flavors without having to import them every time, which could 324 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:50,440 be interesting. 325 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:51,920 Try to do like a pre-Hispanic ayaca. 326 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:57,480 Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. There are also all these myths around the ayaca and many other 327 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:02,440 dishes like how they were created. And most of them are probably invented. 328 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:06,280 Yeah. I mean, if you do that, then you have a tamal. 329 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,040 Basically. 330 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:12,560 When I went to culinary school with our founder, Rafael Novena, rest in peace, we would have 331 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:16,520 this conversation. Like, you know, there was these two theories about a yacca where, you 332 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:20,360 know, the main one that, and it's like, I think it's the most popular one was that it 333 00:25:20,360 --> 00:25:26,800 was created by slaves with leftover product from like what their owners would cook. So 334 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:31,000 then they would take like all these like leftover meat and these olives here and there, and 335 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,760 they would, they've made the ayaca and they say it was like a slave dish, but like, then 336 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:39,840 you think about all the, I mean, like, you know, Mexicans were doing tamales since like 337 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:41,400 before the fucking times. 338 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:46,880 So the other thing about the yacas is that the packages with plantain leaves and those 339 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:52,720 came from Africa. And then you have the stew that is very Spanish and the tamales, which 340 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:54,440 are native American. 341 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:58,360 But you know, you know, Mexicans do, I don't know, I don't know, I'm not sure if they did 342 00:25:58,360 --> 00:26:03,880 it from before Spaniards came, but Mexicans do tamales in wrapping plantain leaves as 343 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:08,120 well. There's two versions. There's the corn husk one and then there's this plantain leaf 344 00:26:08,120 --> 00:26:09,120 one. 345 00:26:09,120 --> 00:26:13,680 Yeah. Which makes perfect sense. Yeah. That's also a clash of cultures, you know, knowing 346 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:15,600 that the plantains came from Africa. 347 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:19,560 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They use a lot of plantains too, but I mean, going back to your 348 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:24,760 question about being, you know, not being Mexican. I mean, I've gotten a couple of comments, 349 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:29,080 like I've got a like Mexican, and it's from friends usually, like people, Mexican friends 350 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:33,000 coming in and then they're asking like, who hears from Esenada? Like, what do you, would 351 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:37,920 you call it Esenada? And I was like, well, like Esenada, first of all, like it means 352 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:41,760 literally like an inlet of water, like an Ensenada, like it's not even the city. That's 353 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:45,400 where the city is called Esenada, you know? And second of all, like we said, like I've 354 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:49,880 seen like a couple of reviews too, that says like, food is good, but it doesn't feel authentic, 355 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:54,680 you know, which is like, I'm sure it's probably known like a Mexican person. Like I've had 356 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:58,960 better food in Mexico city, you know? And the fight is like, I'm not trying to necessarily 357 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:04,600 make it authentic. I'm trying to make it as respectful as possible to the culture, to 358 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:08,320 the ingredients, you know, we're in a time in New York where like you can find like any 359 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:12,800 Mexican ingredient you want. So that makes it easier to do as opposed to Venezuelan food, 360 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:17,200 for example, that like finding some ingredients like Venezuelan food is sometimes a struggle 361 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:22,120 in terms of finding the products. So that makes things easier. But you know, I've also 362 00:27:22,120 --> 00:27:28,720 like made it a point to like, not necessarily be 100% traditional. I like Como Wimona, which 363 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,520 is like an aguachile, and like we have an aguachile amarillo in the menu, which is like 364 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:37,040 aji amarillo base, for example, and I use turmeric and ginger and lemongrass, you know? 365 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:41,360 So that's not traditional at all, but it's interesting to like play with those flavors. 366 00:27:41,360 --> 00:27:44,560 Your chefs are from all over Latin America, right? 367 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:49,440 Yeah, my chef is Mexican, he's on his way out. I hired a new chef now that's Ecuadorian, 368 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:53,480 but grew up in LA, you know? So that's, that's part of like what it is. But yeah, like I 369 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:57,240 was saying, like here in New York, I don't think that's like a, I don't think they crucify 370 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:01,280 you for that because everybody's doing like, like there's two Mexican restaurants. There's 371 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:05,120 only this, there's only this three Mexican restaurants that have one Michelin star in 372 00:28:05,120 --> 00:28:09,200 New York. Two of them, the chefs are American. You know what I mean? 373 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:13,800 Yeah, I mean, I agree. I feel like I could open a Japanese restaurant if I wanted to, 374 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:19,080 you know, like I don't feel that there should be these boundaries as long as you're respectful 375 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:23,880 with what you're doing and, and, and you're honoring the culture that you're offering, 376 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:24,880 you know? 377 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:28,200 That's what it takes. And I mean, I'm not really cooking Venezuelan food at this moment. 378 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:32,120 I'm not saying that I'm never going to cook Venezuelan food again, but right now I'm like 379 00:28:32,120 --> 00:28:36,960 very invested in learning more about Mexican culture, Mexican food, traveling there every 380 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:40,680 year, eating, you know, talking to people, talking to people that are like trying to 381 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:45,160 like import products here. You know, we have a very good relationship with the people that 382 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:49,280 gives us the masa. We get masa fresh every day from our friends at this restaurant called 383 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:54,400 For All Things Good. They have a very good masa program. We get our tostadas from these 384 00:28:54,400 --> 00:29:00,080 other Mexican places also. There's a couple that I met that have a company called Tamoa 385 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:05,800 that they're doing also like herringbone corn imported from Mexico and a lot of types of 386 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:09,680 beans, a lot of types of chilies, you know? So for me, that's like what it's all about. 387 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:13,440 It's like having that relationship. I'm just like, I'm moving like Latin American culture 388 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:17,520 for you. Like I would say it's like, it's bigger than just saying Mexican or the same 389 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:21,320 Venezuelan or just saying Colombian, you know, like here in New York, there's like room for 390 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:25,480 so much steel, you know, that I don't think people are worried about all these Venezuelans 391 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:54,960 with Mexican food now.