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Hi everyone, welcome to Potluck Food Talks.

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Today we're going to talk about Copenhagen.

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Copenhagen.

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Copenhagen?

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Yeah, it's a lovely picturesque town of Copenhagen on the coast of Denmark.

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When was the last time you were in Copenhagen?

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I was only once actually, and it was not for so long.

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Just a few days I was traveling.

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I didn't have so much money, but I did make into either mantrets and a beast.

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Oh, very nice.

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Yeah.

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I looked at the food scene, which is very nice, and the city is really impressive.

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I would say it's one of my favorite cities.

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Yeah, same for me.

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It's such a...

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I don't really know what it is about the city.

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It's like really like you have a lot of traditional sort of like Danish stuff, you know, everything

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is really nicely kept.

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I mean, then again at night it goes like crazy, you know, it's like it gets pretty rough actually

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Copenhagen, you know, at nighttime.

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Yeah, I went to Christiania and you could get like a vibe there that you wouldn't want

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to mess with people from the place.

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Yeah, for sure.

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Yeah, but it's got this really, really unique food scene also.

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That's kind of like a certain style of food that like when I personally see it, it always

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makes me think of that like circle, you know.

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And you've got an interesting contrast because the Danish sort of cooking scene was very

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French influenced, you know, it was like French Nordic cooking.

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It was a lot of butter sauces and stuff and a lot of like very traditional things, a lot

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of meat, a lot of pastries.

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And then obviously the new Nordic movement really broke with that and brought in a really

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much more sort of fresher approach, you know, with a lot more naturalism and acidity and

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less obviously less important progress.

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I mean, in the beginning it was all local product.

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It wasn't even any olive oil or lemons, you know, or anything like that.

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I mean, now they've kind of like opened that up a little bit, but that was the initial

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idea.

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And so you have those two things and like you have local chefs who they really dig the

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new Nordic style and then you have a lot of chefs who also dig the really traditional

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style but kind of do it in a new more fresher way.

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And I think both of those lines are really cool.

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What you just said about the new Nordic movement for me, it's really interesting because it

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was like building a food identity from scratch.

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Like what could we do that you can only do here and that represents our culture and our

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way of being.

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Another interesting project from Copenhagen is what's the name of this beer nomad brewery?

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Oh yeah, Micheller's.

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Micheller's.

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Wow, amazing project.

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This was also like super mind opening for me, like the concept of a brewery.

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If you know a brewery, like a German classic one, it's about having a recipe and repeating

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the same recipe again for centuries and perfectly.

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And this was like radically the opposite, like let's make every batch of beer different

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with its own identity, its own branding and everything.

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And so they started doing like hundreds of variations of beers of all kinds of flavor.

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But just the concept of it for me, I think it's genius.

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Yeah, totally.

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It's like the concept of it is super cool.

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Like the actual craft that goes into the beers is insane.

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I mean, like I've had beer at Micheller that like you can't really even call it beer anymore,

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you know?

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Yeah.

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It's like its own new beverage.

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And it's so cool because they don't limit themselves to anything.

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It's just like experimenting and then moving forward.

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I remember I had this one beer that was brewed with champagne yeast instead of like regular

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brewer's yeast.

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And it was aged in a barrel for like a certain time and it was super dark and intense, but

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at the same time, it had these like crazy floral notes and it was incredibly high in

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alcohol also.

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It had like I think like 12% alcohol or something like that for a beer.

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That's huge, you know?

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12, 15, something like that.

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And it was like a completely new beverage, you know?

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Yeah, place is absolutely amazing.

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Now that you mentioned this, you brought to my mind another characteristic of the Copenhagen

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food scene, natural wines.

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One of the places I went was Manfred's and I've never had natural wines before.

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And I remember I was with a Spanish friend and when they served us, he was like, no,

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I don't like it, can I have another one?

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And he asked for, you know, with his old Spanish traditional wine culture, he was just not

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ready for it.

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So he asked like for four different wines and he was like, no, sorry, I can't drink

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this.

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And for me, the interesting thing is it was for me, that's not wine anymore.

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It's like a random place in the flavor spectrum that you wouldn't expect from wine at all.

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Yeah, totally.

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I totally agree.

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For somebody who comes from a culture where wine is so fundamental, you know, I'm not

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surprised that people find it challenging, you know?

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And yeah, Manfred's was an amazing place.

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I mean, unfortunately, it's closed down, no?

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But that was a really great example.

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The whole restaurant group from Christian Puglisi.

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Puglisi, yeah.

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I mean, for me, it was like, and still is, just one of the coolest, most interesting

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movements there and worldwide.

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Absolutely.

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It's worth studying what they did at Réllet, making a restaurant where they changed so

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many things regarding service, regarding tableware and dishware, and of course, cooking, like

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the book of ideas, we already talked about it.

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It's a very versatile book and an approach to cooking.

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And I did also go to his pizzeria that we also mentioned, Beast, and I think it's the

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best pie I've ever had, like the pizza from Beast.

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Yeah, for sure.

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It's definitely up there, one of my favorite pizzas also because they don't really, like

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they're just kind of like freeing what they do.

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They're just committed to quality, you know?

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His bakery also, Mirabell Bakery, like they just bake super nice, like the sourdough is

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amazing, you know?

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And they make it in a really unconventional way also.

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They just like make these like long fermented slabs, like they don't fold.

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It's like really rustic bread, only using like local flour.

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And also for the pizzas, they only use Danish flour, you know?

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They don't import Italian flour and stuff.

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And they're just super uncompromising to quality and ingredient and craft, and at the same

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time have this like really effortless creativity about everything, like keeping things simple,

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but everything's like interesting and original.

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And I mean, like the work that he does in the sustainability sort of like part is also

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amazing with his farm and with how his restaurants tie into his farm.

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And I think he's one of the only people who actually really lives it and who's actually

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really like honest about it.

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Because a lot of people are sort of like, oh, we're zero waste.

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It's sort of like, no, you're fucking not.

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Like maybe like you can try to be like low waste, but you're definitely not zero waste.

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And he really thinks about the steps, like what steps do I need to take?

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And like, what do we need to do?

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And it's like no bullshit, you know?

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There's no storytelling.

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It's just sort of like, this is what we do and this is what we believe in.

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Talking about zero waste, it's worth mentioning Matt Orlando from Amaz.

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I think that's also one of the most interesting projects in recent times from that level of

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restaurants.

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Like, okay, let's just use everything and use all possible techniques to transform waste

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into something really delicious.

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It's not just, I'm not throwing it away and using it.

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I'm making the best out of it.

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Yeah, definitely.

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Honestly, like Amaz was one of the best dining experiences I've had.

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You never get the feeling that you are eating things that are not the primary product.

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He was making these crackers from like coffee grinds that he had left over from the coffee

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and then all his sort of like composting system.

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I remember he had like, he bought these like small fish to keep in a tank so they would

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filter out.

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They would like clean the water or something like that.

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But apart from that, like this is also something that you have to talk about, I think, especially

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in Copenhagen.

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The place itself, the whole design and the style, like the look and the feel of places.

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It's got this like Danish design feel.

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How would you describe Danish design?

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Yeah, that's a good question.

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It's very minimalist and clean, slightly natural, you know, woods in restaurants, kind of like

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wood, tiles, natural materials, stone, but very clean cut, very straight, very functional,

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you know?

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Yeah, and it also feels like high quality, like something that is durable.

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Yeah, definitely.

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And it's all kind of understated, I think.

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I mean, Amaz was an amazing restaurant, like look-wise in that like big hall that was absolutely

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beautiful with the open kitchen and like meat ages in the top and it was stunning.

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If I'm not wrong, that guy was head chef at Noma and Perse.

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I think you're right, yeah, he was definitely head chef at Noma.

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I'm not sure about Perse, but I think he was head chef at both places, which is also like

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crazy.

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It's possible, yeah.

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He must be a beast.

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He must be an absolute beast.

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But yeah, you know, like I hate some things there that like absolutely blew me away.

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I actually talked to one guy who used to be at Amaz the other day and he told me how they

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made one of the things that I ate there, which is a condiment, just like a vegetable condiment

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of chopped vegetables that you get with the bread.

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The bread itself was really amazing also, but it's like vegetable condiment.

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It just like it was so flavor packed, crazy.

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And yeah, the bread is like they're famous for the bread, which they made from fermented

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potatoes and yogurt.

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So they like the fermented potatoes for a week, so they were really sour, like sourdough

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and then made a dough with flour and yogurt and stuff like that.

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And then let that dough rise again for like three days.

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And then they made like little flatbreads, grilled them, brushed them with butter and

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baked them.

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And they were so tasty.

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They were like crack.

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Yeah.

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Well, and we haven't said anything about Noma.

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Yeah, of course.

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Like we can't, it can't be the first thing we talk about, you know, that would just be,

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that would just make us pose it, you know.

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But yeah, obviously Noma is one of the most famous restaurants in the world.

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You can't discredit them.

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You shouldn't like, why would anybody want to?

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I mean, the work that Rene Ritzepi did and still does is, you know, so immense.

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And again, he, for me, is one of the people who comes closest to Ferran Adria with the

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way that he influenced probably pretty much most kitchens in the world, you know.

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He's like the face of a decade or two in the world food scene, you know, like Ferran was

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before him and I don't know who was before Ferran or Bouchon probably, something like

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that.

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Yeah.

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And Noma had such a big metamorphosis also.

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So from when they started, what they were about, to how they progressed, starting with

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this new Nordic movement.

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And as he was describing before, creating a whole food identity from scratch that wasn't

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there.

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And the adversity that they faced also, you know, also like the local people that were

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super against this, tried to sabotage them and openly attacked them and stuff like that.

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It was crazy.

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How big do your balls need to be to just without compromise, like pull this through, you know,

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without anybody knowing what you want to do, anybody knowing what idea you have, you know.

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And like he had Klaus Mayer who believed in him and he just did it, you know.

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You know, I worked for Klaus Mayer.

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Yeah.

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Like the project I was in Bolivia was related to that.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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He was also a key figure in transforming or boosting this whole new Nordic movement.

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Absolutely.

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He was instrumental in the opening of Noma.

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If I'm not wrong, Jutson in the first years, book wise, he has published like lots of books

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on Nordic food identity that are bestsellers in Denmark.

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Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

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Like, I mean, I think he is one of the most important food figures in the Nordic movement,

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for sure.

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He's such a huge advocate for good products and local products, you know.

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The other day I saw a video of him standing on the street with a megaphone talking about

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bread like on the market, you know, and he was like, eat whole wheat.

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I know that video.

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Is that a super old video?

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Yeah, I think so.

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Yeah, I've seen that video.

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Yeah, where he's like, fuck this like white bread bullshit, like eat whole wheat, you

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know.

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Yeah, it's just like, but yeah, you need those sorts of people, you know, that kind of get

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everybody going and get a movement going, you know.

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The baking scene also in Copenhagen is insane.

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Bakeries in Copenhagen are on another level from a sourdough point of view, especially,

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and then sort of like pastries, but also like naturally leavened pastries.

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They have so many incredibly good bakeries there.

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Really famous is Juno, Juno the bakery.

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There's a baker called Lars Batting.

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The bread that he makes, I've not seen that anywhere else.

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For me, who is like a sourdough aficionado, it's like a holy grail.

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You look at the bread and you look at all the details of like how moist his crumb is,

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how open it is, how dark and caramelized the crust is, the shape of it, everything, and

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you're like, man, when everything aligns, that's what you get.

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And there's many, many more, you know, I mean, there's Hart Bakery, Richard Hart, who was

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the head baker at 13, when he went together with the Norma guys and opened a bakery.

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It's insane what those guys do.

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It's just super, super insane.

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Another place I visited that I loved was Warpix, just having pork and pickles and home brewed

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beer and that's it, you know.

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Like with all this seeing local and what is it?

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That's the meatpacking district.

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As I said, I was there just for three days.

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I did what I could.

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I was broke.

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So I also remember the Danish hot dogs.

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That's something completely unique worldwide.

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That way of making bread for a hot dog, it's like a tube completely closed where you stick

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the sausage inside and then you press the sausage, which is super hard.

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Yeah, yeah, that's very unique.

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Yeah, I love the Danish hot dogs.

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Also like the condiments, there's like a horseradish sauce that I had a one which was amazing and

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that's sort of like relish and all that sort of stuff.

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Yeah, it's definitely a staple.

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I mean, especially for like locals or like people like expats who live in Copenhagen,

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I think it's sort of like after work getting a hot dog or like after you've been drinking,

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it's like a must.

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An absolute must.

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I mentioned before that like a big part of like not necessarily just Copenhagen, but

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like in Denmark, they followed this like very French orientated more classic cooking style,

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which I'm a huge fan of.

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Like there's lots of places, especially in the countryside in Denmark, there's sort of

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like inns that have been kind of like made into a little bit more sort of like modern,

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but still very traditional looking, usually sort of like fine dining places.

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And they make really, really beautiful food because they use local ingredients.

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I mean, ingredients in Denmark are amazing.

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You get really nice vegetables, you get amazing meat, you get amazing seafood, get really,

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really good dairy products.

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In Copenhagen, there's a place called Kong Hans Kolder, which for a really long time

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at one Michelin star, they relatively recently got their second and they make just sort of

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like classic Danish French food, but what really distinguishes them is the precision

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of the technique.

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Like the way that they make it is just so, so cool.

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I really, really dig that.

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It's in this like old cellar.

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It's one of the oldest restaurants in Copenhagen actually.

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It was one of the first Michelin star restaurants, I think, or like the longest holding something

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like that.

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I think I've heard about this place.

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What's the name of the place?

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Kong Hans Kolder.

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Kong Hans means King Hans and Kolder means cellar.

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So, the cellar of King Hans.

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And yeah, the head chef is called Mark Lundgaard.

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The head chef Mark Lundgaard and he's been there forever.

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Also he's like now completely off social media, which I think is a real shame because like

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I really love this style of cooking because also it's kind of like really firm in sort

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of like what he likes to do.

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He doesn't follow any trends, but still through like the way that he does his style of cooking.

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It's not old school.

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Like it is, but it's not.

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It's like really modern and it's really fresh.

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It's just like comfortable, like super, super delicious food.

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Like he makes stuff like Dak a l'orange, but you look at it and it's like, you're like,

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man, that's so clean.

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Again, this like Danish cleanness, plated really simply, et cetera.

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Lots of table side work, you know, where they carve things on the side and flambé and whatever.

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But it never looks like an 80s cookbook or something.

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It's super, super cool.

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Another icon from Copenhagen is Bo Bek.

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Have you been there?

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No, I've never eaten at his restaurant actually.

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He was doing Nordic cuisine before there was Nordic cuisine.

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He was like really forward in that sense.

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Yeah.

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I don't actually know what Bo Bek does now.

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Like he's like this huge personality.

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Everybody loves him.

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He's like, does he have a restaurant at the moment?

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I don't think so, right?

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I'm not sure, but this restaurant that he had, and I knew a few people that worked there,

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it was just smart assembly line.

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All the platings were like just two gestures from the kitchen and just like a very well

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designed dish.

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That's how I would describe the way I understand him from what I've seen in books and videos

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and whatever.

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Yeah, totally.

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His dishes were super minimalistic and super simple.

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Often when I saw him, I was like, man, this is really hard.

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If you don't eat it, if you don't actually sit there and eat it, it's really hard to

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understand these sorts of things.

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His iconic avocado, cabacho with the caviar or his langoustine tartare with the hibiscus,

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I think it is or something like that.

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He's a super iconic guy also.

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Yeah, these things that look like, I don't know, like leek cans, but were like just cauliflower

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shavings and you don't know what's underneath.

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It's probably some texture play that he was working with.

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Yeah, that's a place I would pay a visit if I could.

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Yeah, definitely.

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I guess that's it.

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That's it, yeah.

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Copenhagen.

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That's it for this week's episode of Potluck Food Talks.

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