Hi everyone, welcome to Potluck Food Talks.
Today we're going to talk about Copenhagen.
Copenhagen.
Copenhagen?
Yeah, it's a lovely picturesque town of Copenhagen on the coast of Denmark.
When was the last time you were in Copenhagen?
I was only once actually, and it was not for so long.
Just a few days I was traveling.
I didn't have so much money, but I did make into either mantrets and a beast.
Oh, very nice.
Yeah.
I looked at the food scene, which is very nice, and the city is really impressive.
I would say it's one of my favorite cities.
Yeah, same for me.
It's such a...
I don't really know what it is about the city.
It's like really like you have a lot of traditional sort of like Danish stuff, you know, everything
is really nicely kept.
I mean, then again at night it goes like crazy, you know, it's like it gets pretty rough actually
Copenhagen, you know, at nighttime.
Yeah, I went to Christiania and you could get like a vibe there that you wouldn't want
to mess with people from the place.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, but it's got this really, really unique food scene also.
That's kind of like a certain style of food that like when I personally see it, it always
makes me think of that like circle, you know.
And you've got an interesting contrast because the Danish sort of cooking scene was very
French influenced, you know, it was like French Nordic cooking.
It was a lot of butter sauces and stuff and a lot of like very traditional things, a lot
of meat, a lot of pastries.
And then obviously the new Nordic movement really broke with that and brought in a really
much more sort of fresher approach, you know, with a lot more naturalism and acidity and
less obviously less important progress.
I mean, in the beginning it was all local product.
It wasn't even any olive oil or lemons, you know, or anything like that.
I mean, now they've kind of like opened that up a little bit, but that was the initial
idea.
And so you have those two things and like you have local chefs who they really dig the
new Nordic style and then you have a lot of chefs who also dig the really traditional
style but kind of do it in a new more fresher way.
And I think both of those lines are really cool.
What you just said about the new Nordic movement for me, it's really interesting because it
was like building a food identity from scratch.
Like what could we do that you can only do here and that represents our culture and our
way of being.
Another interesting project from Copenhagen is what's the name of this beer nomad brewery?
Oh yeah, Micheller's.
Micheller's.
Wow, amazing project.
This was also like super mind opening for me, like the concept of a brewery.
If you know a brewery, like a German classic one, it's about having a recipe and repeating
the same recipe again for centuries and perfectly.
And this was like radically the opposite, like let's make every batch of beer different
with its own identity, its own branding and everything.
And so they started doing like hundreds of variations of beers of all kinds of flavor.
But just the concept of it for me, I think it's genius.
Yeah, totally.
It's like the concept of it is super cool.
Like the actual craft that goes into the beers is insane.
I mean, like I've had beer at Micheller that like you can't really even call it beer anymore,
you know?
Yeah.
It's like its own new beverage.
And it's so cool because they don't limit themselves to anything.
It's just like experimenting and then moving forward.
I remember I had this one beer that was brewed with champagne yeast instead of like regular
brewer's yeast.
And it was aged in a barrel for like a certain time and it was super dark and intense, but
at the same time, it had these like crazy floral notes and it was incredibly high in
alcohol also.
It had like I think like 12% alcohol or something like that for a beer.
That's huge, you know?
12, 15, something like that.
And it was like a completely new beverage, you know?
Yeah, place is absolutely amazing.
Now that you mentioned this, you brought to my mind another characteristic of the Copenhagen
food scene, natural wines.
One of the places I went was Manfred's and I've never had natural wines before.
And I remember I was with a Spanish friend and when they served us, he was like, no,
I don't like it, can I have another one?
And he asked for, you know, with his old Spanish traditional wine culture, he was just not
ready for it.
So he asked like for four different wines and he was like, no, sorry, I can't drink
this.
And for me, the interesting thing is it was for me, that's not wine anymore.
It's like a random place in the flavor spectrum that you wouldn't expect from wine at all.
Yeah, totally.
I totally agree.
For somebody who comes from a culture where wine is so fundamental, you know, I'm not
surprised that people find it challenging, you know?
And yeah, Manfred's was an amazing place.
I mean, unfortunately, it's closed down, no?
But that was a really great example.
The whole restaurant group from Christian Puglisi.
Puglisi, yeah.
I mean, for me, it was like, and still is, just one of the coolest, most interesting
movements there and worldwide.
Absolutely.
It's worth studying what they did at Réllet, making a restaurant where they changed so
many things regarding service, regarding tableware and dishware, and of course, cooking, like
the book of ideas, we already talked about it.
It's a very versatile book and an approach to cooking.
And I did also go to his pizzeria that we also mentioned, Beast, and I think it's the
best pie I've ever had, like the pizza from Beast.
Yeah, for sure.
It's definitely up there, one of my favorite pizzas also because they don't really, like
they're just kind of like freeing what they do.
They're just committed to quality, you know?
His bakery also, Mirabell Bakery, like they just bake super nice, like the sourdough is
amazing, you know?
And they make it in a really unconventional way also.
They just like make these like long fermented slabs, like they don't fold.
It's like really rustic bread, only using like local flour.
And also for the pizzas, they only use Danish flour, you know?
They don't import Italian flour and stuff.
And they're just super uncompromising to quality and ingredient and craft, and at the same
time have this like really effortless creativity about everything, like keeping things simple,
but everything's like interesting and original.
And I mean, like the work that he does in the sustainability sort of like part is also
amazing with his farm and with how his restaurants tie into his farm.
And I think he's one of the only people who actually really lives it and who's actually
really like honest about it.
Because a lot of people are sort of like, oh, we're zero waste.
It's sort of like, no, you're fucking not.
Like maybe like you can try to be like low waste, but you're definitely not zero waste.
And he really thinks about the steps, like what steps do I need to take?
And like, what do we need to do?
And it's like no bullshit, you know?
There's no storytelling.
It's just sort of like, this is what we do and this is what we believe in.
Talking about zero waste, it's worth mentioning Matt Orlando from Amaz.
I think that's also one of the most interesting projects in recent times from that level of
restaurants.
Like, okay, let's just use everything and use all possible techniques to transform waste
into something really delicious.
It's not just, I'm not throwing it away and using it.
I'm making the best out of it.
Yeah, definitely.
Honestly, like Amaz was one of the best dining experiences I've had.
You never get the feeling that you are eating things that are not the primary product.
He was making these crackers from like coffee grinds that he had left over from the coffee
and then all his sort of like composting system.
I remember he had like, he bought these like small fish to keep in a tank so they would
filter out.
They would like clean the water or something like that.
But apart from that, like this is also something that you have to talk about, I think, especially
in Copenhagen.
The place itself, the whole design and the style, like the look and the feel of places.
It's got this like Danish design feel.
How would you describe Danish design?
Yeah, that's a good question.
It's very minimalist and clean, slightly natural, you know, woods in restaurants, kind of like
wood, tiles, natural materials, stone, but very clean cut, very straight, very functional,
you know?
Yeah, and it also feels like high quality, like something that is durable.
Yeah, definitely.
And it's all kind of understated, I think.
I mean, Amaz was an amazing restaurant, like look-wise in that like big hall that was absolutely
beautiful with the open kitchen and like meat ages in the top and it was stunning.
If I'm not wrong, that guy was head chef at Noma and Perse.
I think you're right, yeah, he was definitely head chef at Noma.
I'm not sure about Perse, but I think he was head chef at both places, which is also like
crazy.
It's possible, yeah.
He must be a beast.
He must be an absolute beast.
But yeah, you know, like I hate some things there that like absolutely blew me away.
I actually talked to one guy who used to be at Amaz the other day and he told me how they
made one of the things that I ate there, which is a condiment, just like a vegetable condiment
of chopped vegetables that you get with the bread.
The bread itself was really amazing also, but it's like vegetable condiment.
It just like it was so flavor packed, crazy.
And yeah, the bread is like they're famous for the bread, which they made from fermented
potatoes and yogurt.
So they like the fermented potatoes for a week, so they were really sour, like sourdough
and then made a dough with flour and yogurt and stuff like that.
And then let that dough rise again for like three days.
And then they made like little flatbreads, grilled them, brushed them with butter and
baked them.
And they were so tasty.
They were like crack.
Yeah.
Well, and we haven't said anything about Noma.
Yeah, of course.
Like we can't, it can't be the first thing we talk about, you know, that would just be,
that would just make us pose it, you know.
But yeah, obviously Noma is one of the most famous restaurants in the world.
You can't discredit them.
You shouldn't like, why would anybody want to?
I mean, the work that Rene Ritzepi did and still does is, you know, so immense.
And again, he, for me, is one of the people who comes closest to Ferran Adria with the
way that he influenced probably pretty much most kitchens in the world, you know.
He's like the face of a decade or two in the world food scene, you know, like Ferran was
before him and I don't know who was before Ferran or Bouchon probably, something like
that.
Yeah.
And Noma had such a big metamorphosis also.
So from when they started, what they were about, to how they progressed, starting with
this new Nordic movement.
And as he was describing before, creating a whole food identity from scratch that wasn't
there.
And the adversity that they faced also, you know, also like the local people that were
super against this, tried to sabotage them and openly attacked them and stuff like that.
It was crazy.
How big do your balls need to be to just without compromise, like pull this through, you know,
without anybody knowing what you want to do, anybody knowing what idea you have, you know.
And like he had Klaus Mayer who believed in him and he just did it, you know.
You know, I worked for Klaus Mayer.
Yeah.
Like the project I was in Bolivia was related to that.
Yeah.
He was also a key figure in transforming or boosting this whole new Nordic movement.
Absolutely.
He was instrumental in the opening of Noma.
If I'm not wrong, Jutson in the first years, book wise, he has published like lots of books
on Nordic food identity that are bestsellers in Denmark.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Like, I mean, I think he is one of the most important food figures in the Nordic movement,
for sure.
He's such a huge advocate for good products and local products, you know.
The other day I saw a video of him standing on the street with a megaphone talking about
bread like on the market, you know, and he was like, eat whole wheat.
I know that video.
Is that a super old video?
Yeah, I think so.
Yeah, I've seen that video.
Yeah, where he's like, fuck this like white bread bullshit, like eat whole wheat, you
know.
Yeah, it's just like, but yeah, you need those sorts of people, you know, that kind of get
everybody going and get a movement going, you know.
The baking scene also in Copenhagen is insane.
Bakeries in Copenhagen are on another level from a sourdough point of view, especially,
and then sort of like pastries, but also like naturally leavened pastries.
They have so many incredibly good bakeries there.
Really famous is Juno, Juno the bakery.
There's a baker called Lars Batting.
The bread that he makes, I've not seen that anywhere else.
For me, who is like a sourdough aficionado, it's like a holy grail.
You look at the bread and you look at all the details of like how moist his crumb is,
how open it is, how dark and caramelized the crust is, the shape of it, everything, and
you're like, man, when everything aligns, that's what you get.
And there's many, many more, you know, I mean, there's Hart Bakery, Richard Hart, who was
the head baker at 13, when he went together with the Norma guys and opened a bakery.
It's insane what those guys do.
It's just super, super insane.
Another place I visited that I loved was Warpix, just having pork and pickles and home brewed
beer and that's it, you know.
Like with all this seeing local and what is it?
That's the meatpacking district.
As I said, I was there just for three days.
I did what I could.
I was broke.
So I also remember the Danish hot dogs.
That's something completely unique worldwide.
That way of making bread for a hot dog, it's like a tube completely closed where you stick
the sausage inside and then you press the sausage, which is super hard.
Yeah, yeah, that's very unique.
Yeah, I love the Danish hot dogs.
Also like the condiments, there's like a horseradish sauce that I had a one which was amazing and
that's sort of like relish and all that sort of stuff.
Yeah, it's definitely a staple.
I mean, especially for like locals or like people like expats who live in Copenhagen,
I think it's sort of like after work getting a hot dog or like after you've been drinking,
it's like a must.
An absolute must.
I mentioned before that like a big part of like not necessarily just Copenhagen, but
like in Denmark, they followed this like very French orientated more classic cooking style,
which I'm a huge fan of.
Like there's lots of places, especially in the countryside in Denmark, there's sort of
like inns that have been kind of like made into a little bit more sort of like modern,
but still very traditional looking, usually sort of like fine dining places.
And they make really, really beautiful food because they use local ingredients.
I mean, ingredients in Denmark are amazing.
You get really nice vegetables, you get amazing meat, you get amazing seafood, get really,
really good dairy products.
In Copenhagen, there's a place called Kong Hans Kolder, which for a really long time
at one Michelin star, they relatively recently got their second and they make just sort of
like classic Danish French food, but what really distinguishes them is the precision
of the technique.
Like the way that they make it is just so, so cool.
I really, really dig that.
It's in this like old cellar.
It's one of the oldest restaurants in Copenhagen actually.
It was one of the first Michelin star restaurants, I think, or like the longest holding something
like that.
I think I've heard about this place.
What's the name of the place?
Kong Hans Kolder.
Kong Hans means King Hans and Kolder means cellar.
So, the cellar of King Hans.
And yeah, the head chef is called Mark Lundgaard.
The head chef Mark Lundgaard and he's been there forever.
Also he's like now completely off social media, which I think is a real shame because like
I really love this style of cooking because also it's kind of like really firm in sort
of like what he likes to do.
He doesn't follow any trends, but still through like the way that he does his style of cooking.
It's not old school.
Like it is, but it's not.
It's like really modern and it's really fresh.
It's just like comfortable, like super, super delicious food.
Like he makes stuff like Dak a l'orange, but you look at it and it's like, you're like,
man, that's so clean.
Again, this like Danish cleanness, plated really simply, et cetera.
Lots of table side work, you know, where they carve things on the side and flambé and whatever.
But it never looks like an 80s cookbook or something.
It's super, super cool.
Another icon from Copenhagen is Bo Bek.
Have you been there?
No, I've never eaten at his restaurant actually.
He was doing Nordic cuisine before there was Nordic cuisine.
He was like really forward in that sense.
Yeah.
I don't actually know what Bo Bek does now.
Like he's like this huge personality.
Everybody loves him.
He's like, does he have a restaurant at the moment?
I don't think so, right?
I'm not sure, but this restaurant that he had, and I knew a few people that worked there,
it was just smart assembly line.
All the platings were like just two gestures from the kitchen and just like a very well
designed dish.
That's how I would describe the way I understand him from what I've seen in books and videos
and whatever.
Yeah, totally.
His dishes were super minimalistic and super simple.
Often when I saw him, I was like, man, this is really hard.
If you don't eat it, if you don't actually sit there and eat it, it's really hard to
understand these sorts of things.
His iconic avocado, cabacho with the caviar or his langoustine tartare with the hibiscus,
I think it is or something like that.
He's a super iconic guy also.
Yeah, these things that look like, I don't know, like leek cans, but were like just cauliflower
shavings and you don't know what's underneath.
It's probably some texture play that he was working with.
Yeah, that's a place I would pay a visit if I could.
Yeah, definitely.
I guess that's it.
That's it, yeah.
Copenhagen.
That's it for this week's episode of Potluck Food Talks.
If you like what we're doing, make sure to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss
an episode.
You can also find us on Instagram and TikTok as Potluck Food Talks.
The show airs every Monday.