Hi everyone, welcome to Potluck Food Talks. Today we have a special guest, Patricia Jurado.
She's a gastronomic researcher, a lecturer, nutritionist, a networker, among other things.
Hi Patricia, welcome. Nice to have you here.
Hi Eric, nice to be here. I'm super happy for the invitation and super excited to talk
about cheesecake.
Today's topic is cheesecake, but Basque cheesecake. You know Patricia, I started giving food tours
here in San Sebastian and I work a lot with American tourists and I always love when they
first try Basque cheesecake because they're not expecting it at all and they feel like
well-versed in the cheesecake world. And once they try it, it's like, wow, this is like
a complete different universe. I've never tried something like this and I love it.
So I wanted to ask you, what could you say that makes Basque cheesecake, like this La
Viña style cheesecake, so special and different from other cheesecakes?
I think that what makes it super special is that it's super soft. It doesn't have a crust
that for Americans it's a basic, but what really makes the Basque cheesecake so different
is that you bake it in a very hot oven. So you can see that it creates a unique aroma.
So you have the top or the upper crust of the cake, like super burnt, but the inside
is super creamy. So I think this creaminess and mouthfeel of the Basque cheesecake with
all the upper crust, like super like burnt with all of this super mild reactions, I think
this is what makes it super tasty. But I think it's the texture what makes it super different.
Yeah, I agree. I would describe it as kind of like a creme caramel, but with cream cheese.
That's kind of like what it is, right?
See, totally. It has these notes of salted caramel or caramelized butter for baking it
at super hot temperatures, like 200 Celsius. So you have this heat diffusion that is going
super slow, but the crust is burning. So I think that this is what makes this super special
when you try it for the first time.
Here in Spain in general, and particularly in the Basque country, it is very common.
There is like a trend towards very medium rare or raw things. Like you will see that
the tortilla is liquid, that if you eat like a steak, it's super raw in the center. And
same happens with the cheesecake. Like the cheesecake, like the original one from La
Viña, you will find it very soft in the middle. But then millions of versions are arised from
this cheesecake, millions of interpretations, and you get to see them like liquid. Like
you cut the slice and like a kind of like a crema and glaze flows out of the slice,
which is amazing.
Totally. Totally. I think that there are two different types of cheesecake, right? They
are the ones that you use eggs and you bake them in the oven. So what makes like the cheesecake
to coagulate is the eggs. So what happened that a lot of people don't want to reach up
to 65 degrees Celsius, that is when the egg white starts to the nature and coagulate.
And then at 72 Celsius, you have the egg yolks coagulating. So in order to have all of this
creaminess, what a lot of people is doing it is just baking the cheesecake at very high
temperatures. So you can have all the outside super caramelized and super well cooked, but
then you have the inside below those temperatures. So you don't have this coagulation because
you don't have anything in there, like any protein in there to hold the structure. And
then you have all of these super creamy flavors from the cream cheese, the milk, the... Well
no, actually it's whipped cream, I whipped cream, cream, what you use heavy cream. And
then on the other hand, you have the cheesecake that you refrigerate that you don't even have
to put in the oven because what you use is gelatin. But I think the two cheesecake, you
can have this creamy texture, but with the baked one is much easier because you just
need to put it in the oven and you just need to control the temperature so you don't go
above 65 Celsius. And then you have the Maillard reactions, whereas in the refrigerated one,
you just have like a, I would say like a coagulated cream cheese.
Yeah. Also another thing, I saw like a research made by the Electatec, which is a big data
company from Barcelona. And they analyzed 240,000 restaurants all over Spain to get statistics
from what you can see through reviews and information available on the internet. And
the result was that this was the most loved dessert in Spain. So people would think about
something else, you know, like about flan, the Spanish cream caramel, or about chocolate
and rules, but no, it's cheesecake. And it's particularly this kind of cheesecake, like
the Basque one, or you could say the Spanish one. Do you know anything about the history
of this dessert? Yes. But before that, I want to say that it's
also my favorite dessert, especially the baked one with this Basque style characteristics.
Yeah, for me too. I agree. Okay. So this dessert is from La Piña, that
is a very tiny, pinch of place inside Sebastián. And it's super curious because they offer
other things, but everybody goes there just because of the cheesecake, looking for the
cheesecake. And then when you go and you enter in this place, you can see like thousands
of cheesecakes all over. Like you can see like 20 or 30 cheesecakes in the bar. And
this establishment, I think that was open in 1959. And 30 years ago, I think that it
was when the cheesecake started to become super popular and started to spread out all
over the world. Especially, I think that in Turkey, it's super famous.
Yeah, La Piña cheesecake is the most Google topic from San Sebastián. You know, like
it's really something. Yes. When I was at Carmel, when I was in Boston,
I went to a birthday party and they were like, oh, we made a cake from San Sebastián and
they made La Piña cake. So they had a Spanish cookbook and it was super random because they
were not even like chefs or foodies and they were making La Piña cake. But I think that
this cheesecake became especially famous because in 2021, the New York Times said that it was
the taste of the year when they were discussing new culinary trends. And they said that it
was going to be the featured birthday cake. But especially it called, it described it
as the taste of the year. So it became like super popular in the US. And now I think you
can find it all over, especially in the US. I also know that, you know, Gran Akad, this
legendary chef from Chicago, he had or has, I don't know if it still exists, this restaurant
called Next that changed from concept every season. Like they had like four different
concepts a year. And one of the concepts and one of the first seasons was Tapas. So the
research team traveled all over Spain and they also, and this was over five years ago,
and they also picked La Piña cheesecake as the dessert for their Tapas concept. And also
if we go back in history, I would say that Suberoa's cheesecake, which is also like a
staple in Basque cuisine. Suberoa is a restaurant that sadly is about to close this month after
decades open. It's like a restaurant that had two Michelin stars at some point. Now it
has one and they have changed the game in gastronomy in Spain. And this guy made a cheesecake
that was wheat crust, but it was also super liquid in the middle. Like this Basque trans
to where it's raw textures. And for me, the most craziest thing, which is I think genius,
he adds just a micro tiny bit of blue cheese, which adds like a complete different flavor
layer to the cheesecake. And it's something you wouldn't expect. And among the many versions
of this cheesecake, I would say a special one is in Madrid from Nino Redrillo. He also
made like this kind of cheesecake with crust with a little bit of blue cheese and it's
amazing.
Yes. I also know in Madrid Colossimo that also is super famous because he, they add
in the restaurant grated cheese from Cadiz at the top. And it is also like super caramelized,
not like Van as La Piña cheesecake that is almost Van, but it's amazing. And also in
Martelona, I think it's so very, super famous, John cake now. So we got to the evolution of
the cheesecake and how everybody's taking as a reference La Piña cheesecake and then
making their own version. But I just thought, yeah,
Yeah. I super sad to see them close, but I mean, this restaurant was open for how long?
40 years at least, probably. Other cheesecakes that I love, like from the Basque version,
one of my favorites is from Javier Rivero's Ama en Tolosa. That's a good one. And it's
just super yellow and it's delicious. It's like the La Piña cheesecake on steroids,
like much better, much better ingredients, much better execution. It's amazing.
I have to say that I do my own version of La Piña cheesecake because you can make a
thousand recipes online and they all vary in the amount of eggs. It's always one kilo
of cheese, what I think that also makes a super peculiar, I would say like particular.
And then also then it has half of it of heavy cream, like one kilo of cheese, 500 milliliters
of heavy cream, and then it has 300 grams of sugar. This is the recipes that you find
online and then four to five eggs. But in my personal opinion, it has way too much sugar,
the recipes that you find online. So I tend to reduce a little bit amount of sugar when
I make the Basque cheesecake. And then on the other hand, I think that the recipes that
you find online, they have too much egg. And if you want to have this like super creamy,
like almost raw texture, you need to decrease the amount of eggs. And I'm curious about
what you've said about Javier Rivero, they may add just the egg yolks in order to have
this like creamy texture. But I don't know. And it's super yellow, this cheesecake, like
completely yellow, like banana yellow. It makes sense, right? I'm always thinking
when I make my cheesecake, I should add just the egg yolks, not the five eggs. I just add
five eggs if they are small. Otherwise, I just add four eggs because I like it super
creamy, almost liquid cheesecake.
Per kilo?
For a kilo of cream cheese.
Okay. So in other versions that I like is the one from Lave restaurant. This was developed
by Adriano while he was still there in the kitchen. And what they did is they added like
an award winning smoked Idias aval cheese. Like same idea from Suberoa, adding just a
tiny percentage of a strong flavored cheese, but in this case was smoked Idias aval. And
another one that I really liked while I was working in a Basque restaurant in Berlin,
we would do it with cheap Turkish feta cheese, like this super savory salty cheese. We would
mix it until it was smooth enough to bake it without pieces of cheese. And people would
go insane about it. They would book the cheesecake in advance or they would... Sometimes it was
the first thing they ordered when they came to the restaurant before everything else,
just to be safe to have their slice for dessert.
Was cream cheese with feta cheese added into it or it was all feta cheese?
It was all feta cheese, feta cheese, sugar and eggs. Mix until soft, until smooth.
Wow, I'm so curious because feta cheese has a lot of fat, so I'm pretty sure the texture
was amazing.
Yeah, it was super good, super good.
And the balance with the saltiness of the feta cheese?
It was savory. Yeah, it had this savory sweet kind of dessert, so it was quite something.
I did put it on my to-do list then. Once I tried it with mascarpone because I was like,
oh, it has a lot of fat. It may give you a super creamy texture, but it was a disaster.
So I'm scared to try it with different types of cheese because I think the cream cheese
gives you the right balance of protein and fat to have this creaminess, not liquidy.
So I'm kind of scared, but I will give it a chance to the feta cheese one.
I wanted to make a short correction on the recipe I just said. Actually, it had mascarpone.
It was two parts mascarpone and one part of feta cheese, and then it would be like a normal
cheesecake recipe. But it was mascarpone and a very salty Turkish cheese that came in a
can like a Turkish feta.
And another thing, since we're talking about the recipe and the process, so what you would
do is you have your mold, your form, and you will put baking paper so it doesn't stick,
and then you put your mixer, which is very liquid. And you want it to be also very liquid
once you take it out of the oven. And this is where most people fail if they haven't
tried the original one or they don't understand the concept of the cake. They usually have
seen the imitations of Basque cheesecake overbaked and it completely loses the whole fun of it.
So when you take it out, the thing has to be super shaky. That's one of the indicators.
And then you let it rest for an hour at least.
I think more, four hours at least.
And then it's ready to eat.
Yes. And another key point is to not overmix the ingredients. You don't want to incorporate
air. You just want to mix the ingredients. So you have to be super gentle, I think, when
you are mixing the ingredients.
Okay. That's a good one as well. So what could you say about other types of cheesecakes?
I know in Germany they also have the Kese Kuchen, which is something in a completely
different direction. This is more like a biscuit that has cheese. It's a completely different
thing. We also have the New York cheesecake, Japanese cheesecake. I don't know. What can
you tell us about it?
I like a lot the New York cheesecake because even though it's super different from the
Basque cheesecake, I personally like the crust, like the base that you add into your cheesecake.
And a lot of times when I'm making my Basque cheesecake, I add this crust. But I think
it's super sweet, the New York cheesecake. And also it's ultra dense and firm. With one
slice you are full for four hours. So I think the New York is nice because it has this amazing
buttery crust and then it's super consistent and rich, but it is super sugary. It couldn't
compare with the Basque cheesecake.
And then on the other hand, you have the Japanese cheesecake that is super light and fluffy
because you whisk the egg yolks and the egg whites separately and then you bake it in
a bain marie. So it's more like a souffle. So you have this super ultra rich, dense cheesecake
and then you have all of this fluffiness. And I don't know about the Germany one because
I haven't tried it, but I know that it's with a ripened cheese, right?
I've never baked it. I have just tried it in cafes and I wasn't so passionate about
it.
No, it gets weird, right? Because you don't want to bake a car. You want to make this
creamy mixture.
Exactly. Absolutely. Now that you talked about crusts, I remember as a kid we would make
a lot of cheesecakes at home, New York style, before I knew the Basque one. And for the
crust, what we would do is grind muesli and use that instead of flour. So you have this
super muesli crust which goes perfectly with cheesecake.
This is another thing that I like about the crust that you can play a lot with the flavor
that you are going to then add into the cheesecake. Because sometimes, you know, my friends, they
like chocolate cheesecakes, they like Kinder cheesecakes. I do like, you know, these cookies
that are called dinosaurios in Spain. So I make Basque cheesecake out of a lot of things.
And I think it can, then you can make your base out of the same cookie that you are making
the cheesecake. So I also like the idea of like playing with it.
Yeah, I recently tried a pistachio one and it was amazing. It was really, really tasty.
I also tried it in a CICI restaurant. Amazing.
So if someone wants to make cheesecake at home, what would you recommend regarding the cream
cheese, which is the main character in this movie?
Okay, so 100% I would recommend cream cheese, not using as I've said mascarpone or other
type of cheeses because you could have a disaster. And regarding cream cheese, I would always
use, I always personally like to use the Philadelphia cream cheese because it's the most available
one. And I think it has the right balance between fat and protein. But I think you can
use pretty much any type of cream cheese, but that it is like full fat cream cheese,
not light cream cheese and not like any type of dietary or zero sugar cream cheese, because
I think the balance between the ingredients is super important and it's what is going
to give you the most creaminess in your cake.
That's it for this week's episode of potluck food talks. If you like what we're doing,
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