1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:11,440 Hi everyone, welcome to Potluck Food Talks. Today we have a special guest, Patricia Jurado. 2 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:17,880 She's a gastronomic researcher, a lecturer, nutritionist, a networker, among other things. 3 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:20,280 Hi Patricia, welcome. Nice to have you here. 4 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:26,960 Hi Eric, nice to be here. I'm super happy for the invitation and super excited to talk 5 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:27,960 about cheesecake. 6 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:34,720 Today's topic is cheesecake, but Basque cheesecake. You know Patricia, I started giving food tours 7 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:39,880 here in San Sebastian and I work a lot with American tourists and I always love when they 8 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:46,400 first try Basque cheesecake because they're not expecting it at all and they feel like 9 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:51,800 well-versed in the cheesecake world. And once they try it, it's like, wow, this is like 10 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:56,400 a complete different universe. I've never tried something like this and I love it. 11 00:00:56,400 --> 00:01:01,040 So I wanted to ask you, what could you say that makes Basque cheesecake, like this La 12 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:06,000 Viña style cheesecake, so special and different from other cheesecakes? 13 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:12,400 I think that what makes it super special is that it's super soft. It doesn't have a crust 14 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:20,160 that for Americans it's a basic, but what really makes the Basque cheesecake so different 15 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:26,800 is that you bake it in a very hot oven. So you can see that it creates a unique aroma. 16 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:32,320 So you have the top or the upper crust of the cake, like super burnt, but the inside 17 00:01:32,320 --> 00:01:38,840 is super creamy. So I think this creaminess and mouthfeel of the Basque cheesecake with 18 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:45,240 all the upper crust, like super like burnt with all of this super mild reactions, I think 19 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:51,760 this is what makes it super tasty. But I think it's the texture what makes it super different. 20 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:59,000 Yeah, I agree. I would describe it as kind of like a creme caramel, but with cream cheese. 21 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:00,760 That's kind of like what it is, right? 22 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:07,120 See, totally. It has these notes of salted caramel or caramelized butter for baking it 23 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:13,080 at super hot temperatures, like 200 Celsius. So you have this heat diffusion that is going 24 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:20,840 super slow, but the crust is burning. So I think that this is what makes this super special 25 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:24,160 when you try it for the first time. 26 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:29,880 Here in Spain in general, and particularly in the Basque country, it is very common. 27 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:36,600 There is like a trend towards very medium rare or raw things. Like you will see that 28 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:43,720 the tortilla is liquid, that if you eat like a steak, it's super raw in the center. And 29 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:48,760 same happens with the cheesecake. Like the cheesecake, like the original one from La 30 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:56,560 Viña, you will find it very soft in the middle. But then millions of versions are arised from 31 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:01,480 this cheesecake, millions of interpretations, and you get to see them like liquid. Like 32 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:08,760 you cut the slice and like a kind of like a crema and glaze flows out of the slice, 33 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:09,760 which is amazing. 34 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:15,160 Totally. Totally. I think that there are two different types of cheesecake, right? They 35 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:20,320 are the ones that you use eggs and you bake them in the oven. So what makes like the cheesecake 36 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:25,800 to coagulate is the eggs. So what happened that a lot of people don't want to reach up 37 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:32,040 to 65 degrees Celsius, that is when the egg white starts to the nature and coagulate. 38 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:37,360 And then at 72 Celsius, you have the egg yolks coagulating. So in order to have all of this 39 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:42,120 creaminess, what a lot of people is doing it is just baking the cheesecake at very high 40 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:46,960 temperatures. So you can have all the outside super caramelized and super well cooked, but 41 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:51,620 then you have the inside below those temperatures. So you don't have this coagulation because 42 00:03:51,620 --> 00:03:56,080 you don't have anything in there, like any protein in there to hold the structure. And 43 00:03:56,080 --> 00:04:01,760 then you have all of these super creamy flavors from the cream cheese, the milk, the... Well 44 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:06,600 no, actually it's whipped cream, I whipped cream, cream, what you use heavy cream. And 45 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:10,720 then on the other hand, you have the cheesecake that you refrigerate that you don't even have 46 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:16,480 to put in the oven because what you use is gelatin. But I think the two cheesecake, you 47 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:21,640 can have this creamy texture, but with the baked one is much easier because you just 48 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:25,040 need to put it in the oven and you just need to control the temperature so you don't go 49 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:31,360 above 65 Celsius. And then you have the Maillard reactions, whereas in the refrigerated one, 50 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:35,440 you just have like a, I would say like a coagulated cream cheese. 51 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:42,720 Yeah. Also another thing, I saw like a research made by the Electatec, which is a big data 52 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:50,960 company from Barcelona. And they analyzed 240,000 restaurants all over Spain to get statistics 53 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:57,160 from what you can see through reviews and information available on the internet. And 54 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:02,360 the result was that this was the most loved dessert in Spain. So people would think about 55 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:07,040 something else, you know, like about flan, the Spanish cream caramel, or about chocolate 56 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:13,360 and rules, but no, it's cheesecake. And it's particularly this kind of cheesecake, like 57 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:17,560 the Basque one, or you could say the Spanish one. Do you know anything about the history 58 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:21,520 of this dessert? Yes. But before that, I want to say that it's 59 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:26,960 also my favorite dessert, especially the baked one with this Basque style characteristics. 60 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:32,200 Yeah, for me too. I agree. Okay. So this dessert is from La Piña, that 61 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:38,240 is a very tiny, pinch of place inside Sebastián. And it's super curious because they offer 62 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:42,800 other things, but everybody goes there just because of the cheesecake, looking for the 63 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:48,520 cheesecake. And then when you go and you enter in this place, you can see like thousands 64 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:55,040 of cheesecakes all over. Like you can see like 20 or 30 cheesecakes in the bar. And 65 00:05:55,040 --> 00:06:01,280 this establishment, I think that was open in 1959. And 30 years ago, I think that it 66 00:06:01,280 --> 00:06:07,080 was when the cheesecake started to become super popular and started to spread out all 67 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:11,000 over the world. Especially, I think that in Turkey, it's super famous. 68 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:16,560 Yeah, La Piña cheesecake is the most Google topic from San Sebastián. You know, like 69 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:20,760 it's really something. Yes. When I was at Carmel, when I was in Boston, 70 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:26,840 I went to a birthday party and they were like, oh, we made a cake from San Sebastián and 71 00:06:26,840 --> 00:06:32,080 they made La Piña cake. So they had a Spanish cookbook and it was super random because they 72 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:37,080 were not even like chefs or foodies and they were making La Piña cake. But I think that 73 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:43,840 this cheesecake became especially famous because in 2021, the New York Times said that it was 74 00:06:43,840 --> 00:06:49,640 the taste of the year when they were discussing new culinary trends. And they said that it 75 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:54,960 was going to be the featured birthday cake. But especially it called, it described it 76 00:06:54,960 --> 00:07:00,480 as the taste of the year. So it became like super popular in the US. And now I think you 77 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:05,840 can find it all over, especially in the US. I also know that, you know, Gran Akad, this 78 00:07:05,840 --> 00:07:11,120 legendary chef from Chicago, he had or has, I don't know if it still exists, this restaurant 79 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:16,040 called Next that changed from concept every season. Like they had like four different 80 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:22,840 concepts a year. And one of the concepts and one of the first seasons was Tapas. So the 81 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:29,200 research team traveled all over Spain and they also, and this was over five years ago, 82 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:34,360 and they also picked La Piña cheesecake as the dessert for their Tapas concept. And also 83 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:39,880 if we go back in history, I would say that Suberoa's cheesecake, which is also like a 84 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:47,920 staple in Basque cuisine. Suberoa is a restaurant that sadly is about to close this month after 85 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:55,120 decades open. It's like a restaurant that had two Michelin stars at some point. Now it 86 00:07:55,120 --> 00:08:03,480 has one and they have changed the game in gastronomy in Spain. And this guy made a cheesecake 87 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:10,280 that was wheat crust, but it was also super liquid in the middle. Like this Basque trans 88 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:18,040 to where it's raw textures. And for me, the most craziest thing, which is I think genius, 89 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:25,460 he adds just a micro tiny bit of blue cheese, which adds like a complete different flavor 90 00:08:25,460 --> 00:08:31,360 layer to the cheesecake. And it's something you wouldn't expect. And among the many versions 91 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:39,960 of this cheesecake, I would say a special one is in Madrid from Nino Redrillo. He also 92 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:44,600 made like this kind of cheesecake with crust with a little bit of blue cheese and it's 93 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:45,600 amazing. 94 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:52,000 Yes. I also know in Madrid Colossimo that also is super famous because he, they add 95 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:58,840 in the restaurant grated cheese from Cadiz at the top. And it is also like super caramelized, 96 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:04,240 not like Van as La Piña cheesecake that is almost Van, but it's amazing. And also in 97 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:11,360 Martelona, I think it's so very, super famous, John cake now. So we got to the evolution of 98 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:15,600 the cheesecake and how everybody's taking as a reference La Piña cheesecake and then 99 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:19,960 making their own version. But I just thought, yeah, 100 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:26,040 Yeah. I super sad to see them close, but I mean, this restaurant was open for how long? 101 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:33,200 40 years at least, probably. Other cheesecakes that I love, like from the Basque version, 102 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:39,760 one of my favorites is from Javier Rivero's Ama en Tolosa. That's a good one. And it's 103 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:45,400 just super yellow and it's delicious. It's like the La Piña cheesecake on steroids, 104 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:50,200 like much better, much better ingredients, much better execution. It's amazing. 105 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:56,000 I have to say that I do my own version of La Piña cheesecake because you can make a 106 00:09:56,000 --> 00:10:03,000 thousand recipes online and they all vary in the amount of eggs. It's always one kilo 107 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:07,600 of cheese, what I think that also makes a super peculiar, I would say like particular. 108 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:13,240 And then also then it has half of it of heavy cream, like one kilo of cheese, 500 milliliters 109 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:17,680 of heavy cream, and then it has 300 grams of sugar. This is the recipes that you find 110 00:10:17,680 --> 00:10:23,160 online and then four to five eggs. But in my personal opinion, it has way too much sugar, 111 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:27,840 the recipes that you find online. So I tend to reduce a little bit amount of sugar when 112 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:32,160 I make the Basque cheesecake. And then on the other hand, I think that the recipes that 113 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:37,640 you find online, they have too much egg. And if you want to have this like super creamy, 114 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:43,680 like almost raw texture, you need to decrease the amount of eggs. And I'm curious about 115 00:10:43,680 --> 00:10:48,480 what you've said about Javier Rivero, they may add just the egg yolks in order to have 116 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:55,320 this like creamy texture. But I don't know. And it's super yellow, this cheesecake, like 117 00:10:55,320 --> 00:11:00,440 completely yellow, like banana yellow. It makes sense, right? I'm always thinking 118 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:06,360 when I make my cheesecake, I should add just the egg yolks, not the five eggs. I just add 119 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:11,520 five eggs if they are small. Otherwise, I just add four eggs because I like it super 120 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:13,400 creamy, almost liquid cheesecake. 121 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:14,400 Per kilo? 122 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:16,640 For a kilo of cream cheese. 123 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:21,960 Okay. So in other versions that I like is the one from Lave restaurant. This was developed 124 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:28,800 by Adriano while he was still there in the kitchen. And what they did is they added like 125 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:36,440 an award winning smoked Idias aval cheese. Like same idea from Suberoa, adding just a 126 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:44,600 tiny percentage of a strong flavored cheese, but in this case was smoked Idias aval. And 127 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:50,960 another one that I really liked while I was working in a Basque restaurant in Berlin, 128 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:58,040 we would do it with cheap Turkish feta cheese, like this super savory salty cheese. We would 129 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:05,680 mix it until it was smooth enough to bake it without pieces of cheese. And people would 130 00:12:05,680 --> 00:12:12,280 go insane about it. They would book the cheesecake in advance or they would... Sometimes it was 131 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:16,400 the first thing they ordered when they came to the restaurant before everything else, 132 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:19,760 just to be safe to have their slice for dessert. 133 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:26,240 Was cream cheese with feta cheese added into it or it was all feta cheese? 134 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:32,600 It was all feta cheese, feta cheese, sugar and eggs. Mix until soft, until smooth. 135 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:37,680 Wow, I'm so curious because feta cheese has a lot of fat, so I'm pretty sure the texture 136 00:12:37,680 --> 00:12:38,680 was amazing. 137 00:12:38,680 --> 00:12:40,640 Yeah, it was super good, super good. 138 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:42,780 And the balance with the saltiness of the feta cheese? 139 00:12:42,780 --> 00:12:48,760 It was savory. Yeah, it had this savory sweet kind of dessert, so it was quite something. 140 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:54,240 I did put it on my to-do list then. Once I tried it with mascarpone because I was like, 141 00:12:54,240 --> 00:13:01,600 oh, it has a lot of fat. It may give you a super creamy texture, but it was a disaster. 142 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:05,840 So I'm scared to try it with different types of cheese because I think the cream cheese 143 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:11,160 gives you the right balance of protein and fat to have this creaminess, not liquidy. 144 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:16,360 So I'm kind of scared, but I will give it a chance to the feta cheese one. 145 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:23,440 I wanted to make a short correction on the recipe I just said. Actually, it had mascarpone. 146 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:30,600 It was two parts mascarpone and one part of feta cheese, and then it would be like a normal 147 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:37,960 cheesecake recipe. But it was mascarpone and a very salty Turkish cheese that came in a 148 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:41,200 can like a Turkish feta. 149 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:45,260 And another thing, since we're talking about the recipe and the process, so what you would 150 00:13:45,260 --> 00:13:52,260 do is you have your mold, your form, and you will put baking paper so it doesn't stick, 151 00:13:52,260 --> 00:13:57,800 and then you put your mixer, which is very liquid. And you want it to be also very liquid 152 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:02,440 once you take it out of the oven. And this is where most people fail if they haven't 153 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:07,440 tried the original one or they don't understand the concept of the cake. They usually have 154 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:13,880 seen the imitations of Basque cheesecake overbaked and it completely loses the whole fun of it. 155 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:19,840 So when you take it out, the thing has to be super shaky. That's one of the indicators. 156 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:23,360 And then you let it rest for an hour at least. 157 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:27,400 I think more, four hours at least. 158 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:29,360 And then it's ready to eat. 159 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:36,080 Yes. And another key point is to not overmix the ingredients. You don't want to incorporate 160 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:43,880 air. You just want to mix the ingredients. So you have to be super gentle, I think, when 161 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:45,400 you are mixing the ingredients. 162 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:52,480 Okay. That's a good one as well. So what could you say about other types of cheesecakes? 163 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:57,320 I know in Germany they also have the Kese Kuchen, which is something in a completely 164 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:02,760 different direction. This is more like a biscuit that has cheese. It's a completely different 165 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:07,600 thing. We also have the New York cheesecake, Japanese cheesecake. I don't know. What can 166 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:08,600 you tell us about it? 167 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:13,320 I like a lot the New York cheesecake because even though it's super different from the 168 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:18,920 Basque cheesecake, I personally like the crust, like the base that you add into your cheesecake. 169 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:23,680 And a lot of times when I'm making my Basque cheesecake, I add this crust. But I think 170 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:30,120 it's super sweet, the New York cheesecake. And also it's ultra dense and firm. With one 171 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:37,440 slice you are full for four hours. So I think the New York is nice because it has this amazing 172 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:43,400 buttery crust and then it's super consistent and rich, but it is super sugary. It couldn't 173 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:45,760 compare with the Basque cheesecake. 174 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:50,720 And then on the other hand, you have the Japanese cheesecake that is super light and fluffy 175 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:55,760 because you whisk the egg yolks and the egg whites separately and then you bake it in 176 00:15:55,760 --> 00:16:02,560 a bain marie. So it's more like a souffle. So you have this super ultra rich, dense cheesecake 177 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:06,560 and then you have all of this fluffiness. And I don't know about the Germany one because 178 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:10,720 I haven't tried it, but I know that it's with a ripened cheese, right? 179 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:17,760 I've never baked it. I have just tried it in cafes and I wasn't so passionate about 180 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:18,760 it. 181 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:25,120 No, it gets weird, right? Because you don't want to bake a car. You want to make this 182 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:27,120 creamy mixture. 183 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:33,160 Exactly. Absolutely. Now that you talked about crusts, I remember as a kid we would make 184 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:39,600 a lot of cheesecakes at home, New York style, before I knew the Basque one. And for the 185 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:45,920 crust, what we would do is grind muesli and use that instead of flour. So you have this 186 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:51,640 super muesli crust which goes perfectly with cheesecake. 187 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,840 This is another thing that I like about the crust that you can play a lot with the flavor 188 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:59,720 that you are going to then add into the cheesecake. Because sometimes, you know, my friends, they 189 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:05,480 like chocolate cheesecakes, they like Kinder cheesecakes. I do like, you know, these cookies 190 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:11,320 that are called dinosaurios in Spain. So I make Basque cheesecake out of a lot of things. 191 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:16,400 And I think it can, then you can make your base out of the same cookie that you are making 192 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:21,320 the cheesecake. So I also like the idea of like playing with it. 193 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:26,640 Yeah, I recently tried a pistachio one and it was amazing. It was really, really tasty. 194 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:29,840 I also tried it in a CICI restaurant. Amazing. 195 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:36,080 So if someone wants to make cheesecake at home, what would you recommend regarding the cream 196 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:39,560 cheese, which is the main character in this movie? 197 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:44,960 Okay, so 100% I would recommend cream cheese, not using as I've said mascarpone or other 198 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:50,240 type of cheeses because you could have a disaster. And regarding cream cheese, I would always 199 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:55,280 use, I always personally like to use the Philadelphia cream cheese because it's the most available 200 00:17:55,280 --> 00:18:00,240 one. And I think it has the right balance between fat and protein. But I think you can 201 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:05,200 use pretty much any type of cream cheese, but that it is like full fat cream cheese, 202 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:11,120 not light cream cheese and not like any type of dietary or zero sugar cream cheese, because 203 00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:16,300 I think the balance between the ingredients is super important and it's what is going 204 00:18:16,300 --> 00:18:24,160 to give you the most creaminess in your cake. 205 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:28,680 That's it for this week's episode of potluck food talks. If you like what we're doing, 206 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:33,120 make sure to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode. You can also find us 207 00:18:33,120 --> 00:19:01,680 on Instagram and TikTok as potluck food talks. The show airs every Monday.