00:00:04:11 - 00:00:12:19 Erich Hi everyone. Welcome to Potluck Food Talks. Episode number four for we're going to talk about pizza today. 00:00:12:19 - 00:00:17:00 Phil Pizza. Tasty. Tasty pies. Things on flat piece of dough. 00:00:17:07 - 00:00:21:17 Erich What are your thoughts on pizza? What makes a good pizza for you? 00:00:21:19 - 00:00:48:18 Phil Well, I fucking love pizza. Pizza is one of those foods that's just like, you know, there's a couple of foods. And like, in the world that are just perfect. Right. And pizza is one of them because, like, pizza is so simple and so diverse, apart from being something that, you know, in its simplicity, it can be elevated to be, you know, incredibly, incredibly delicious. 00:00:48:18 - 00:00:58:02 Phil But it's also something that you can just they come back to all the time, you know, it's like it's something that you can eat all the time. And I really like that. You know, it's just a staple. 00:00:58:05 - 00:01:29:24 Erich For me, as I said in the cultural appropriation episode. Italian food in general, something that that is rooted, I would say, in in all of Western countries, same as Christian is just as an example or Roman law. Everybody has its own understanding of of pasta, mainly pasta and pizza. So on. And, and for that matter, that there are also like many different versions all over the world. 00:01:29:24 - 00:01:55:13 Erich Like you'll find a New York pizza that is completely different and the meaning of pepperoni is also different. If you go to Argentina, you will see pizzas where we're always a lot thicker. And then, of course, it's so controversial. Why pizza and I don't know. What are your thoughts on this multi cultural idea of the pie? 00:01:56:22 - 00:02:16:18 Phil Well, I mean, I think I think it's great, honestly. Like, I think there's nothing wrong with it. You know, there's a lot of people hating on these sorts of things once they can start changing it from the original sort of, you know, version to original format. But you know, I mean, this is the great thing about pizza. It's such a simple, simple thing, right? 00:02:17:00 - 00:02:35:00 Phil And if we talk about when we talk about diversity, but also we talk about quality of pizza, you know, the simplicity of it, it's like really key. So because it's so simple, you know, you can easily I know a lot of purists are going to hate me, but like you can easily make like an Indian pizza, you know, breaking bread. 00:02:35:00 - 00:02:55:24 Phil You can take a, you can take a non bread and like put that on it and like a couple of tandoori chicken pieces and they fake it and it's basically like something like it's not a pizza. I wouldn't say it's a pizza, but you know, like it's the basic, the basis of it leaves you so much room for interpretation. 00:02:56:13 - 00:03:16:11 Phil Oh yeah. And it's the it's the fact that it's so, you know, you asking earlier, like, what makes a good pizza? And I think also that's the key is sort of like it's so simple. That's the key for really, really good pizza is, first of all, ingredients and second of all, execution. But the execution kind of comes like later. 00:03:16:11 - 00:03:33:18 Phil I think first and foremost, it's ingredients. And if you have like good ingredients wherever you are, whether you are in Sicily or whether you are in Bangkok, like things produce on a big piece of dough. You know, the ingredients have to be top notch. 00:03:34:03 - 00:03:53:03 Erich So let's break those ingredients down in those categories. I think it makes sense to start with the dough and the flour, the way I understand that this should be like a high protein sour, right? So it develops a better gluten, it's more elastic. What can you say about that? 00:03:54:18 - 00:04:21:19 Phil Yeah, I mean, yeah, sure. I mean, this is sort of double zero flour, you know, it's a traditional ox grain, you know, flour from Italy. That's the traditional thing. But like all the pizzas that I find really exciting with all the pizza cellulose that I find really interesting and whose work I follow internationally, they all adopt. They say, Yeah, that's fine. 00:04:21:19 - 00:04:41:02 Phil But what's more important, having Italian flour or having the best flour that you can get, because obviously the flour has a short shelf life. So what people usually don't know because you go to the supermarket and you buy flour, that's like five months old. It's really bad, you know? It's kind of it's the same with everything rather than getting a really freshly milled flour. 00:04:41:10 - 00:05:00:05 Phil So if you're in Italy, you want to use double zero Italian flour. You know, that makes the most sense. But if you're in Denmark, right, like, why would you not use a flour that has the same properties to gets mills close to you making it fresh and also using local grain, you know, which is just a sort of sustainable option. 00:05:00:05 - 00:05:19:17 Phil It's it's a like a sort of win win situation. So that's part of the reason why I think pizza so beautiful, because it's kind of like an expression of like where you are, you know, it's like flour. It's all the basic things of food. You know, it's flour, fermentation and just seasonal ingredients, mainly vegetables, you know. 00:05:20:01 - 00:05:50:21 Erich So while in my understanding, like the formulation of like good pizza dough is pretty much like a basic white bread. So something that I've done that has worked for me when I haven't had like a recipe at hand. And I just had to, to improvise. So to say I would take like a normal baguette recipe and not some replace a percentage of the water with olive oil to give it elasticity. 00:05:50:21 - 00:05:54:18 Erich And that has worked perfectly for me. I don't know what. What are your comments on that? 00:05:55:13 - 00:06:17:13 Phil I mean, so as you know, like I spend a quite a lot of time baking and also with baking with with natural leaven. And I could never really get that. I would like pizza dough to work in a way that I was very happy with. And so like through the research that I did, I, I learned about a couple of things. 00:06:17:13 - 00:06:43:01 Phil And I think one of the most important things is to use minimal yeast. You want to use much, much, much less use than you would in a bread, for example. So often it's like because in loaf recipes you calculate everything in percentages, baking percentages, right? So in a solid operation you would have maybe something like 20% of acusado in a pizza dough. 00:06:43:01 - 00:07:07:09 Phil It would only be about like 1 to 2% effective, solid or so it's much less. And then usually the fermentation is pushed like much longer, which doesn't create any sourness, but it's kind of it makes the dough, the flour has time to hydrate. It has time to ferment and create those like, you know, structured bubbles of fermentation. But you don't have a pizza that blows up. 00:07:07:09 - 00:07:27:18 Phil You don't have like a huge activity. So I think that's really, really key. And then really, really good pizzas are high percentage of hydration. Also, that means a large amount of water for people who are not super baking savvy. You know, that means that obviously the more water you have kind of like at a certain point, the more difficult you is going to be to handle. 00:07:27:23 - 00:08:03:18 Phil It's going to be runny and sticky. And that's but if you think about mixing water and flour with water, you kind of have to think as if you were cooking rice. If you cook one cup of rice in half a cup of water, it's just not never going to be fully cooked and it's never going to be fully, um, you know, saturated and soaked up and it's not really going to be digestible and it's kind of the same thing with flour, you know, I think what makes bad pizza bad is but for one big part of dough, because they don't use enough water to make it easy and they don't let it ferment and hydrate 00:08:03:18 - 00:08:17:23 Phil long enough. So it's basically, you know, flour that's not hydrated enough. It's been baked anyway. So I think those are those two things are the main key things for a good pizza dough is minimal yeast and high hydration. 00:08:18:05 - 00:08:19:19 Erich What about the cleaning process. 00:08:20:07 - 00:08:24:20 Phil Which yeah, I mean, there's so many different approaches to that. 00:08:24:20 - 00:08:56:16 Erich And last time we made it to the better, you earned the pizza we did at my place. Yeah, well, I tried for for the first time our dough recipe that didn't require any kneading at all, just making the fermentation time longer. I remember this was like two days when Obama got a really long fermentation time zero meeting, which is very practical for home cooking, except that you have to make, you know, two days in advance. 00:08:57:23 - 00:09:20:06 Erich But this was a great pizza, though, I remember. And I have never done something like this without needing I remember it was just putting the ingredients together a lot, like if you were doing the cooking and the other thing that that was also kind of meal for me. I had this prejudice that fresh cheese is always better than the produce and not at all. 00:09:20:10 - 00:09:24:14 Erich We we did this though, where we tried using it worked out perfectly. 00:09:24:24 - 00:09:49:10 Phil Yeah. Yeah. I mean the no need method, you know, it's like yeah, like I said, there's so many approaches to it. When I was baking bread, I was always doing no need. You know, this process that happens, people think that when you're kneading, you create gluten. But it's not exactly true necessarily that much, mainly with like what you're doing when you also are stretching gluten and stuff like that. 00:09:49:14 - 00:10:13:07 Phil So fine, but when you kneading you're forcing the flour to hydrate. And gluten creation is something that happens naturally when flour gets mixed with water. That's a process that's called autumn leaves, where you can literally take some flour and some water, mix it together, let it rest. And then after about an hour or so, I would say minimum, and I always pushed as much, much longer overnight, whatever. 00:10:13:07 - 00:10:43:08 Phil It depends on the recipe. If you take this, I'm needed so you can already stretch it because the gluten is already created. So that's for one. And then also fermentation makes the dough stronger by itself. It helps the strength of the dough. So. So yeah, I mean, but a lot of people, you know, they do need the dough and it's kind of like but the pretty much all the particulars that I follow talk about the process. 00:10:43:08 - 00:11:04:00 Phil It's usually always about a two day process of making the dough. They mix it, they sort of like needed to help it hydrate and then they let it rest. You know what you then can do by letting after living rest every now and again, you can give it a turn as you like. So you know, with your hands a little bit and pick up the dough can fold it into itself to help sort of like layer the gluten. 00:11:04:05 - 00:11:21:03 Phil It also distributes the heat inside of the dough. So obviously like the center of the dough is going to be warmer because of the fermentation. The outside is going to cool down. So by folding it, you distribute the heat evenly and you ensure a nice smooth fermentation. But yeah, I'm also a big fan of the no needs method. 00:11:22:23 - 00:11:26:17 Erich What about the sauce that's called through the sauce? 00:11:28:05 - 00:11:32:03 Phil Yeah, the sauce. I mean, what do you like? What's what sort of sauce do you like? 00:11:32:07 - 00:12:03:09 Erich Well, this is, again, something that I learned relatively late. I would always like cook sauce, like a long time cooking sauce. And then I, a particular friend showed me how he did it. It would just take high quality canned tomatoes and other garlic summery and perhaps some olive oil and blitz it and use it raw, just like just enough to make like a super thin layer on top of the dough. 00:12:03:09 - 00:12:09:20 Erich And that's it. And this this just a distinctive, traditional pizza flavor, I think. 00:12:10:19 - 00:12:37:01 Phil Yeah, totally. I had exactly the same situation. I always thought, oh, you make a sauce, you cook like you sweat onions and garlic, and you add all this stuff and then you cook it down a lot. And then I realized, so they know it's just about, you know, because canned tomatoes, a lot of people think that canned tomatoes are, you know, a like not a good product, but this canned tomatoes that are extremely high quality. 00:12:38:09 - 00:12:39:10 Erich Great. 100%. 00:12:39:10 - 00:12:59:09 Phil Yeah. And those tomatoes, you know, that paste when they're super ripened, perfect. And then they're preserved, you know, that's that's exactly what it is. And I agree, like I really like this. The style of raw tomato sauce. I like it when you kind of let it through a movie. So there's like, still little chunks of, like, the tomato inside of the sauce. 00:12:59:13 - 00:13:00:13 Erich Yeah. 00:13:00:13 - 00:13:21:17 Phil And then, yeah, I season it with salt, sea salt and garlic, of course, and a little bit of oregano. And yeah, like you say, it's just a thin layer, you know, I feel as if it's one of the biggest mistakes that I've definitely made and that people make when making pizza is that they just load the pizza up with sauce and ingredients and it's like just fully loaded and never comes out, right. 00:13:22:01 - 00:13:47:19 Phil But I talking about sauce, I really distinctly remember when I was in school, we did a we did an excursion, we did a trip to Rome. And in Rome there's these street carts that sell like a a pizza that's own basically only tomato sauce. And I remember eating this to make this pizza you get you got it for like a couple of euros, you know, just slice them to go buy the tomato sauce. 00:13:47:19 - 00:14:08:00 Phil It was like really sour, like sour and fresh and fruity, you know, and it had this really, really particular fresh, sour tomato flavor. And I thought that was so incredibly delicious. So ever since then, I really like the raw tomato sauce and sun. 00:14:08:04 - 00:14:25:11 Erich Then the other super basic ingredient I would say is the cheese. What can you say about the mozzarella cheese or is it allowed to use other types of cheeses? Well, you go to jail in Italy for the. 00:14:27:12 - 00:14:34:19 Phil I think I think you would go to jail definitely. And you would suffer. You think you would suffer the wrath of the wrath of Italy. 00:14:35:04 - 00:14:35:22 Erich Pizza Nazis. 00:14:36:14 - 00:15:01:12 Phil Yes, exactly. They know about you when you arrive in. But I think so. I kind of I'm a little bit of like both sides of the river. I think it has to be mozzarella for a lot of it. Right. I think like if you like if if you and me were to open a pizza place like in next month, there has to be like, what is it, our staple right? 00:15:01:12 - 00:15:21:05 Phil It has to be a margarita, not like you are. Just how you would judge a good bar by like how good their whiskey sour is or how good their whatever is. You know, or how could the negroni is a good pizzeria, you know, it should be judged by how good their margarita is because there's nothing to hide and you have to have mozzarella. 00:15:21:05 - 00:15:44:01 Phil But then that being said, you know, I also don't necessarily think it's the right thing to just import mozzarella. You know, you can do it like Christian Puglisi, who's got one of my favorite pizzerias in the world based in Copenhagen who, you know, makes his own mozzarella from local milk, from local, high quality raw milk, you know? And I mean, what could be better than that? 00:15:44:06 - 00:15:49:11 Phil That's exactly the quintessential pizza. It's local ingredients at the highest, highest quality, you know? 00:15:50:14 - 00:16:22:05 Erich Yeah. And I think the best is a perfectly good example for that. Everything you do, you have just said about getting local flour, local mozzarella and so on, but at the same time being very respectful with Italian pizza tradition, having the right old answer, the right technique and so on. I have to say, I went to Boston and Copenhagen and and it's the best it's I've had for sure in Denmark. 00:16:23:06 - 00:16:24:15 Phil Yeah. Did you have two potato one. 00:16:25:14 - 00:17:06:12 Erich No, I had one. I actually don't remember which pizza I have. I remember it had some pretty Danish ingredients. There was also one word. What's the name of this wild herb? Uh, the one that or the nettles. Nettles? He also has a nettle bits. Yeah, using one. That's I think that's pretty cool. Do you use like whatever it is, like pizzas, tacos or in the eighties as a way as a way of of developing a style of cuisine, you know. 00:17:07:11 - 00:17:31:13 Phil Not totally. And I think that's like, you know, like, why me? Why do I think pizza is so cool? You know, because it's kind of like it's exactly that you can like if you're eating pizza today, it's kind of like how people have been eating for centuries, you know, it's like fermented dough, right? With things that they have around, you know, preserve meats, preserve milk as in cheese and seasonal vegetables, put on a pizza, you know, local foraged herbs, etc.. 00:17:32:02 - 00:17:52:04 Phil And like, that's kind of the cool thing, you know, it's like it's so it's so raw and in a way, but, you know, taking it to a really, really high level. And I think often I think it's really, really cool that we're still eating like that. I mean, people nowadays like, you know, I mean, not so much anymore, but a couple of years ago this everybody was hating on gluten and gluten. 00:17:52:04 - 00:18:17:07 Phil This the enemy, you know, but like, you know, you think about it and it's sort of like that pizza hasn't changed that much for a lot of time, you know, and sort of like versions of this sort of food, you know, have been, you know, have been documented for hundreds of years. And it's been the backbone of civilization breads, you know, bread in itself. 00:18:17:13 - 00:18:19:23 Phil The backbone of of. Yeah, modern civilization. 00:18:20:13 - 00:18:36:10 Erich Yeah, absolutely. Um, so going back to the cheese, I'm also a big fan of Morata and Pizza and what's the name of this ultra fatty mozzarella version that is sometimes used. 00:18:39:09 - 00:18:40:03 Phil For the lettuce? 00:18:40:08 - 00:18:54:00 Erich Yeah, exactly. That's also was and my favorite pizza, I would say is a a crosser probably. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I always saw one or the other. 00:18:54:12 - 00:19:15:09 Phil But I always go for Diavolo. So I love a lot of the since I was a kid. Since I was a kid. Yeah. Yeah, I would agree. Like, I mean but then again, I always, I kind of like going to a pizza place and I feel like pizza place is often they have like a daily special, you know, and I usually always go for that. 00:19:15:09 - 00:19:44:08 Phil You know, one of my all time favorite pizzas is, um, pizza with Shimada wrapper or like broccolini and that like each other, like fennel sausage that they make the pork sausage with fennel seeds. And that's like and that's like a super classic combination, but it's just so extremely tasty, you know? It's so simple, so, so, so simple. 00:19:44:08 - 00:20:14:19 Erich Other good places here in San Sebastian, which are three former chefs and my favorite pizza there is, one would all be beaten, which I think it's very, very to do to take back a lot of people putting it on pizza and that it actually works. I think that's the most difficult thing to make something like that work because it's pretty easy to to mess up with conceptually and also technically. 00:20:15:00 - 00:20:16:05 Erich Like the combination like that. 00:20:17:10 - 00:20:40:24 Phil Yeah, for sure. Yeah, definitely. But like, that's a delicious pizza. It's just like everything you wanted a pizza, but they make good pizza in general, you know, they just nail it. I mean, I really remember that anchovy pizza also. And it's just like, well, first of all, the dough is very good, the baking is very good. And then they just put like top notch ingredients on it. 00:20:40:24 - 00:21:04:07 Phil You know, the sauce is good and then super low, like really nice, delicious, high quality anchovies. And it's just yeah, it's just super, super delicious. They do a really good job. My one couple of my favorite places are in based in London. I have two of my favorite pizzas that I've ever had are in London. One is called Franco Manca. 00:21:05:05 - 00:21:30:03 Phil Franco Manca. Now, anybody who's ever been in London will probably heard of Franco mancha. They they started very small, I think they started in Brixton Market, but now they have lots of locations. They really round it out. But I went back, I think the beginning of this year actually, and I had it again and I had actually that pizza that I told you about with the Sachi chan, the broccolini, and it's just super good. 00:21:30:12 - 00:21:51:10 Phil And why is it good? Just because like that the dough is like charred and airy and light and the ingredients are just fantastic. And then there's another place in London called Bravo Ragazzi, which again is just super nice. They make a really, really good calzone. Do you like calzone or you calzone guy or I? 00:21:51:16 - 00:22:00:23 Erich I used to be more when I was a kid. I would always ordered calzone in the last year. Now I'm not anymore. I always go for CAPRICCIOSO and. 00:22:02:00 - 00:22:13:11 Phil You know, I'm the sort of guy like if I if I go to a pizza place and it looks good, I always have this like tendency of ordering a normal regular pizza and also a calzone just to see what it's like. 00:22:14:07 - 00:22:16:01 Erich Okay. Just to measure the level. 00:22:16:18 - 00:22:19:15 Phil You know, just because I'm curious, you know, so I want to see if. 00:22:19:20 - 00:22:38:04 Erich I actually I, I tend to go there is always a pizza with the name of the restaurant. And I think that's always interesting also to order that because I mean, there has to be a reason they named the pizza with the same name of the restaurant is probably something like the owner or the chef really likes. 00:22:39:06 - 00:22:45:21 Phil Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's true. Actually, I never thought about that. There's always a pizza called after the actual restaurant. 00:22:47:01 - 00:23:14:23 Erich Yeah. Other places that I could recommend is parking pizza in Barcelona. Is that like a really cool concept? And my, my friend Adriano with his family, they opened a place in Quito, Ecuador, called Fatima, and they actually imported all things from Napoli, so they did it really well. It's also interesting to try. So what about the old ones and the baking process? 00:23:14:24 - 00:23:41:22 Erich What are the. Well, again, I think this is a very common beginner's mistake. Someone who's doing pizza for the first time, they will build the oven like an alternative and 80 degrees. And actually you should put it as high as you can if you're in a home then and if it's a professional and I would say 220 degrees would be like, okay, temperature in my opinion. 00:23:42:16 - 00:24:06:12 Phil I think even more actually. It's, it's like it's really, really high. And I think that's really the main here. So cooking good pizza is the high tech in the oven. You can of course, you can go into a page whether it has to be a wood fired often or not. I like the romanticism of a wood fired or I don't know whether it actually adds that much to it. 00:24:06:18 - 00:24:32:23 Phil But undeniably, the cooking method is one of the most important parts of making a pizza for sure. You, like a pizza regularly will take around 60 seconds to 90 seconds to cook. You know, you put it in. It's just like if you don't get that, if you don't have the base of an oven that has stored a lot of heat and you don't have a blazing, blazing heat, you will never get the rice you'll get. 00:24:34:07 - 00:24:54:09 Phil You just get a solid sort of like piece of dough, which can still be fine, but it's just not what you want, you know, otherwise you'll never get those air pockets and that charm. You'll just all the cookie dough and they'll get really tough by because by the time it's cooked, you know, it's, uh, or by the time it's got color, it's like super, super overcooked. 00:24:54:09 - 00:25:10:10 Phil If you just I think it's impossible to cook a good pizza in your home, to be honest with you. Like, unless you do like a tray pizza, like a traditional Neapolitan pizza, it's it's pretty much impossible. I know. Like, you know, putting baking stones inside and stuff and it's really hard. 00:25:10:14 - 00:25:39:06 Erich Yeah. I was going to say that like a baking stone with our home island, size helps a lot and in fact, if I were to do a pizza at home like I've done before, as I said, maximum temperature and really letting it preheat and having a peel at hand to to put the pizza in and out of the oven. 00:25:39:06 - 00:26:21:20 Phil Yeah, for sure. For sure. I personally think you're, like better off when you're baking pizza at home to make like, it's sort of like trade pizza, my grandma style pizza, you know, that you could see in New York a lot or you know, also, you know, kind of similar to pizza Italian, which is very popular in Rome. I mean, if people don't know pizza, I'll tell you basically square sized pizza, that's you buy by the sort of like square slice of famous, especially by, you know, made famous by people like punchy in restaurant Italian, you know, really, really fantastic. 00:26:21:20 - 00:26:36:06 Phil I mean, he was also one of the pioneers of really elevating the ingredients that get put on pizza because for a long time, the pizza was a very cheap thing. And he kind of brought it back back then. I mean, it's many years ago, but he's very famous now anyway. 00:26:36:06 - 00:26:48:11 Erich So have you tried this wooden for the wall hormones that works square pellets. 00:26:49:05 - 00:27:09:21 Phil Oh yeah. Like only those sorts of. Well huh. Yes I have, I have tried them a couple of times and I thought they were actually really impressive in Wisconsin. This one does only and I thought they were fantastic. I really want to get one and they produced really, really good results. 00:27:10:05 - 00:27:16:18 Erich Yeah, I think it's the best way you can do a pizza at home is with one of those hundred percent. 00:27:16:18 - 00:27:54:18 Phil And then yeah, but you know, like pizza the it's like nowadays there's so many cool variations of of people doing pizzas in their own style. I mean, there's the whole like movement in Japan who are very based on like classic Neapolitan pizza, but with like a real sort of sense of purity. I mean, obviously in the States, there's, you know, there's obviously in New York and all around the States, pizza is a is a staple, but especially people like Anthony Mangieri with Pizza Napoletana was in New York and then in San Francisco and then back in New York, you know, like just kind of putting their own spin on. 00:27:54:18 - 00:28:18:24 Phil It's this really cool videos of Anthony Mangieri actually on YouTube where how he makes his dough, how he works the oven. And it's really fascinating to see if, you know, we've talked about reciprocally the company began to mine for me also comes Kobe this Morales who you know had into Wolf in Belgium Michelin very famous Michelin star restaurant right. 00:28:18:24 - 00:28:38:06 Phil Who's also got their superette, which is a bakery where they do pizzas also. But he uses local Belgian flour and local ingredients. And it's just really, really beautiful. Like, you know, just like simple, simple cooking methods. Having these, like so many faces around the world, you know. 00:28:39:00 - 00:28:48:06 Erich There is also like a bakery that does an amazing pizza called Banda La Jolla and Lima, Peru. That's also a good one. 00:28:48:06 - 00:28:50:16 Phil Yeah. What's the pizza like? What's on it? 00:28:51:07 - 00:29:07:17 Erich I mean, they they also made their own sour doughs. It's like a pretty handcrafted bakery with many different types of bread, and they do classic. There's nothing crazy about it, you know? I'm not going to die. Nice. And what are doing? Onions on? 00:29:08:06 - 00:29:09:14 Phil No, no. Savage pizza? 00:29:09:21 - 00:29:19:02 Erich No, this. No, no, no, no. What are your thoughts on that? On adding pineapple to the pizza, this kind of things. 00:29:20:01 - 00:29:49:04 Phil I, I don't know. I think it's okay. I think like I mean, in the end, I think people should do what they want to do. And like I, you know, pizza would consider it a why not, you know, like the don't call it traditional Neapolitan. It's like what we were saying about, you know, appropriating things. But hey, in the end, if you're making a nice though with nice ingredients on top of it, you know, and you're feeding it to friends or people who are enjoying it, you know, what's wrong with that? 00:29:49:04 - 00:29:50:10 Phil I think it's great. 00:29:50:10 - 00:30:15:12 Erich Yeah, I agree. There there are also like this. I don't know how to call them like crazy nontraditional pizza places that you go there and they add whatever they feel like. And the dough is also like a creative way of doing a pizza, though. And I think the those places are nice and in their own way. But as you say, I wouldn't put them to compete with pizzerias. 00:30:15:12 - 00:30:17:09 Erich I would say this is like something else. 00:30:18:21 - 00:30:36:17 Phil Yeah, yeah. It's kind of hard to sort of like at some point, you know, it's like the example I was doing earlier, like an Indian place started like putting things on non and making it like a flat pizza. You couldn't really call it pizza. You know, it's kind of hard to, to point out it would still be delicious, you know, like it's nothing wrong with it. 00:30:37:00 - 00:30:41:19 Phil But is it a pizza? Like, kind of like a pizza, but not really. 00:30:43:02 - 00:30:44:11 Erich Cool, I guess that's it. 00:30:44:16 - 00:30:45:23 Phil I'm really hungry now. 00:30:47:18 - 00:30:51:19 Erich So. Well, what should we talk about in the next episode? 00:30:52:13 - 00:31:06:07 Phil So next episode we're talking about cookbooks. What our favorite cookbooks, the ones that have accompanied us throughout the years of working in astronomy and the ones that inspire list. 00:31:06:20 - 00:31:14:22 Erich Now that's a great topic and also a pretty easy one for us. Yeah. Okay, great. See you next time. All right. 00:31:15:06 - 00:31:19:00 Phil See you next time. Oh.