WEBVTT 00:00:03.970 --> 00:00:07.070 Hi, everyone. Welcome to Pot Luck Food Talks, 00:00:07.070 --> 00:00:09.269 the show where we talk food and kitchens from 00:00:09.269 --> 00:00:13.589 a cook's point of view. My name is Eric, and 00:00:13.589 --> 00:00:18.550 I'm here with Phil, the chiffonade grandmaster. 00:00:19.230 --> 00:00:24.449 And today we're talking creativity. We're continuing 00:00:24.449 --> 00:00:28.070 our series of creativity. This is going to be 00:00:28.070 --> 00:00:29.870 a series of episodes. I don't know how many. 00:00:30.269 --> 00:00:34.329 Let's see just how deep we can go into it. But 00:00:34.329 --> 00:00:49.549 first... Now, let's talk about actual cooking. 00:00:49.829 --> 00:00:52.049 We've been talking about all the constraints, 00:00:52.469 --> 00:00:56.689 the business model. So I will put it more specific 00:00:56.689 --> 00:00:59.399 to you. You have a restaurant, okay? You have 00:00:59.399 --> 00:01:02.359 two trained chefs. One of them is a good friend 00:01:02.359 --> 00:01:04.480 of you that you've been in the trenches together. 00:01:04.739 --> 00:01:07.239 The other one is someone you don't know, and 00:01:07.239 --> 00:01:09.819 you have four others that are, you know, like 00:01:09.819 --> 00:01:14.680 young chefs that one specific day they can cut 00:01:14.680 --> 00:01:17.519 a finger off because they did a mistake or something. 00:01:18.269 --> 00:01:20.430 And you're running this restaurant. I want to 00:01:20.430 --> 00:01:24.950 go more deeper into how many covers or do you 00:01:24.950 --> 00:01:27.969 think it's necessary to start playing around 00:01:27.969 --> 00:01:30.829 with dish creation or these kind of things? Because 00:01:30.829 --> 00:01:34.790 my next question would be, Soleil, let's define 00:01:34.790 --> 00:01:37.890 a menu. Let's actually think about, we already 00:01:37.890 --> 00:01:40.390 like on the first episode of this series, you 00:01:40.390 --> 00:01:42.530 already started with something that was like 00:01:42.530 --> 00:01:47.280 a... a charcoal grilled squab with wild plums 00:01:47.280 --> 00:01:51.840 fermented wild plums as a side and i could imagine 00:01:51.840 --> 00:01:55.319 some kind of tuber into that and that would be 00:01:55.319 --> 00:01:58.379 like a game dish okay like but how does that 00:01:58.379 --> 00:02:02.459 fit that's actually sounds like something fine 00:02:02.459 --> 00:02:05.680 danish maybe but you were talking about something 00:02:05.680 --> 00:02:10.949 more casual, like in the style of St. John, but 00:02:10.949 --> 00:02:14.889 on your own terms. So let's build dishes. Like, 00:02:14.909 --> 00:02:18.030 how do you build a menu? You said no tasting 00:02:18.030 --> 00:02:20.349 menu, so it's an a la carte. How do you structure 00:02:20.349 --> 00:02:24.349 an a la carte? Okay, I have three chefs, including 00:02:24.349 --> 00:02:30.770 me. Yes. Okay, easy. So from that, going from 00:02:30.770 --> 00:02:34.669 that, already we have to open five days a week. 00:02:35.310 --> 00:02:39.169 right i think the minimum for me in a restaurant 00:02:39.169 --> 00:02:43.729 that i want to curate there are there are two 00:02:43.729 --> 00:02:45.830 sections that i need basically or three sections 00:02:45.830 --> 00:02:48.030 that i need the lowest amount of sections of 00:02:48.030 --> 00:02:51.669 three sections so we're talking with very limited 00:02:51.669 --> 00:02:54.129 resources here right so that would be like starters 00:02:54.129 --> 00:02:57.530 grill and dessert something like that or exactly 00:02:57.530 --> 00:03:00.229 that you have a raw section starter section right 00:03:00.229 --> 00:03:04.090 starter raw whatever you know takes care of salads 00:03:05.090 --> 00:03:08.669 pickles crudos like raw fish dishes you know 00:03:08.669 --> 00:03:10.990 whatever maybe some terrines maybe some fried 00:03:10.990 --> 00:03:12.610 stuff you know if you have a fryer somewhere 00:03:12.610 --> 00:03:15.969 you know can i do quick quick fried then main 00:03:15.969 --> 00:03:19.289 courses right grill section a grill can take 00:03:19.289 --> 00:03:22.189 care of so much right a grill can take care of 00:03:22.189 --> 00:03:25.009 your meats of your fish of your seafood of vegetables 00:03:25.009 --> 00:03:29.389 can be the hard piece of a kitchen right and 00:03:29.389 --> 00:03:32.979 then desserts desserts I would put, in this scenario, 00:03:33.240 --> 00:03:38.560 I would put two chefs on starters, as in, you 00:03:38.560 --> 00:03:41.580 know, raw, whatever, and one chef on grill. One 00:03:41.580 --> 00:03:44.139 of the chefs from the starter section has to 00:03:44.139 --> 00:03:48.020 do pars. So there's pars and plates on the starter 00:03:48.020 --> 00:03:51.759 section. So one is like a tourneur, right? Like 00:03:51.759 --> 00:03:53.919 this, we have five days of the week covered, 00:03:54.060 --> 00:03:57.879 right? Five days grill, five days raw, five days 00:03:57.879 --> 00:04:01.960 pars. Very, very risky because if one of the 00:04:01.960 --> 00:04:03.819 chefs wants to take a vacation, it's kind of 00:04:03.819 --> 00:04:06.699 impossible. Or if he sneezes a day, okay, everything, 00:04:06.979 --> 00:04:10.900 the whole house of cards falls apart. It all 00:04:10.900 --> 00:04:15.340 falls down. So, okay, then we have that framework 00:04:15.340 --> 00:04:21.860 already. So that means like, what do I like salad 00:04:21.860 --> 00:04:25.199 -wise or like starter -wise, right? I like salads. 00:04:25.420 --> 00:04:29.269 I think good made salads are... something rare 00:04:29.269 --> 00:04:32.269 right so if we're talking about chile i've never 00:04:32.269 --> 00:04:34.129 been to chile i don't know what ingredients they 00:04:34.129 --> 00:04:36.230 have in chile but i would look what they have 00:04:36.230 --> 00:04:39.730 right do i maybe want to reinvent like like in 00:04:39.730 --> 00:04:42.730 mexico you know they had calites and i was like 00:04:42.730 --> 00:04:45.670 man this is so cool calites how would you describe 00:04:45.670 --> 00:04:48.689 calites you know i don't know calites they're 00:04:48.689 --> 00:04:52.790 these little like very like meaty greens okay 00:04:52.790 --> 00:04:57.029 it's a it's a leaf how beautiful yeah yeah and 00:04:57.029 --> 00:04:59.170 like they have a super cool texture so it's kind 00:04:59.170 --> 00:05:01.129 of like making a salad with that amazing you 00:05:01.129 --> 00:05:05.129 know then i definitely want some some fried snacks 00:05:05.129 --> 00:05:09.269 i definitely need some kind of croqueta because 00:05:09.269 --> 00:05:11.829 i love croquetas right whatever you do with that 00:05:11.829 --> 00:05:14.009 is like you know is there a local cheese is there 00:05:14.009 --> 00:05:16.230 a local spice like can you make a twist with 00:05:16.230 --> 00:05:21.290 that um raw fish or raw seafood right what's 00:05:21.290 --> 00:05:24.069 local do they have nice prawns that you can and 00:05:24.069 --> 00:05:26.290 then it's sort of like well maybe do they have 00:05:26.290 --> 00:05:28.629 what do they have do they have some sort of sort 00:05:28.629 --> 00:05:30.790 of like acidic fruit or citrus that you can make 00:05:30.790 --> 00:05:34.629 like an aguachile with um do i have really fatty 00:05:34.629 --> 00:05:36.670 fish that you can make a tataki with like those 00:05:36.670 --> 00:05:40.250 kind of things right you base it on the ingredients 00:05:40.250 --> 00:05:43.490 and on what i like so i i before you go on i 00:05:43.490 --> 00:05:46.350 had also a question like like so far you're talking 00:05:46.350 --> 00:05:51.000 about like an ingredient driven dish design approach? 00:05:51.480 --> 00:05:55.160 Would you also, because at the very beginning 00:05:55.160 --> 00:05:59.040 you said reinvent, would you also take traditional 00:05:59.040 --> 00:06:02.819 dishes and do a twist on them? Would you play 00:06:02.819 --> 00:06:04.920 that game? Are you afraid of bastardization? 00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:08.579 No, not at all. I think that's great. I think 00:06:08.579 --> 00:06:11.540 as we've said many times, I think if it comes 00:06:11.540 --> 00:06:15.040 from a place of genuine appreciation, curiosity 00:06:15.040 --> 00:06:18.860 and interest in the local culture, then I think 00:06:18.860 --> 00:06:22.480 it's great. As long as you don't step on any 00:06:22.480 --> 00:06:26.779 toes and you take something and say, this is 00:06:26.779 --> 00:06:28.300 shit, I'm going to make it better, I'm going 00:06:28.300 --> 00:06:30.259 to show you what it's like a la Richard Hart, 00:06:30.439 --> 00:06:33.730 then I think it's okay. There's a dish I thought 00:06:33.730 --> 00:06:36.850 it was very cool when I was in Bolivia from Camila 00:06:36.850 --> 00:06:41.509 Zeitler. It was, because it was very thoughtful, 00:06:41.689 --> 00:06:45.250 you know, and the rule, the constraint of this 00:06:45.250 --> 00:06:48.470 restaurant was to cook only with stuff that grows 00:06:48.470 --> 00:06:51.509 within the borders of the country. It was also 00:06:51.509 --> 00:06:54.050 like, kind of like a, I don't want to use the 00:06:54.050 --> 00:06:57.230 word political, but, you know, like an approach 00:06:57.230 --> 00:07:01.129 on how to develop the economy of the country 00:07:01.129 --> 00:07:04.800 through food and and hospitality right like so 00:07:04.800 --> 00:07:07.279 the idea was not even the drinks nothing everything 00:07:07.279 --> 00:07:14.379 is local right like so there is no sea and and 00:07:14.379 --> 00:07:20.660 um river seafood river food like river fish basically 00:07:20.660 --> 00:07:23.939 doesn't work that well for ceviche it works well 00:07:23.939 --> 00:07:26.920 for other things but but not necessarily for 00:07:26.920 --> 00:07:29.819 ceviche it's not i mean the difference is huge 00:07:31.949 --> 00:07:36.290 But a lot of ceviches consumed in Bolivia. You 00:07:36.290 --> 00:07:39.269 know, culturally, they're near Chile and Peru, 00:07:39.449 --> 00:07:42.750 and, you know, like, ceviches consumed a lot. 00:07:43.089 --> 00:07:47.569 Yeah. So she did a dish that was a chicharrón 00:07:47.569 --> 00:07:51.389 ceviche. You know, like, you would use the marinade 00:07:51.389 --> 00:07:55.370 of a ceviche, but you would pimp it with chicken 00:07:55.370 --> 00:07:59.490 you, okay? And then there's chicharrones in it. 00:07:59.790 --> 00:08:01.730 So it was a chicharrón ceviche. And it's something 00:08:01.730 --> 00:08:04.490 that I've noticed. Yet at the same time, chicharrón 00:08:04.490 --> 00:08:06.970 is something completely, deeply rooted in the 00:08:06.970 --> 00:08:09.709 culture. You know, and you took two things that 00:08:09.709 --> 00:08:12.209 are already in the culture, you put them together 00:08:12.209 --> 00:08:15.250 in a new way. I think that was like a very, very 00:08:15.250 --> 00:08:17.990 cool dish. And it was, you know, like a bar food. 00:08:18.110 --> 00:08:20.029 That's something you would have at the bar with 00:08:20.029 --> 00:08:22.949 a beer at the bar of the restaurant. Sometimes 00:08:22.949 --> 00:08:25.889 it was also like a starter. But I thought that 00:08:25.889 --> 00:08:28.600 was a very, very cool dish. Yeah, see, I think 00:08:28.600 --> 00:08:30.459 that's a super cool idea. And it's like that, 00:08:30.540 --> 00:08:34.120 you know, you play on local things. I think a 00:08:34.120 --> 00:08:36.159 lot of people really appreciate it also, you 00:08:36.159 --> 00:08:40.799 know. Because also, like, I think you can't lose 00:08:40.799 --> 00:08:46.279 your audience from your creation process, you 00:08:46.279 --> 00:08:47.820 know, like, and if you take something that clicks 00:08:47.820 --> 00:08:50.240 on them like this, you take two things that clicks 00:08:50.240 --> 00:08:52.080 on them, and you put it like in a completely 00:08:52.080 --> 00:08:56.279 different way. I was on a creative exercise in 00:08:56.279 --> 00:09:03.200 Japan with Furukan. He gave them something to 00:09:03.200 --> 00:09:06.500 taste, like it was something to, like a stimulant 00:09:06.500 --> 00:09:10.399 to make them think different. So they all tasted 00:09:10.399 --> 00:09:14.259 and they all were like completely, it was like 00:09:14.259 --> 00:09:19.600 a... I will say a cafe latte, right? Like they 00:09:19.600 --> 00:09:22.480 all tasted it and they were all like with this 00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:26.320 what the fuck expression. Like I know what this 00:09:26.320 --> 00:09:28.559 is, but I don't know what this is. What is this? 00:09:28.639 --> 00:09:31.919 What is this? I don't get it, but I do get it, 00:09:31.919 --> 00:09:37.940 right? It was coffee with miso, okay? So they 00:09:37.940 --> 00:09:40.580 were being completely mindfucked. Like, I don't 00:09:40.580 --> 00:09:43.620 know what's going on, but the... So two familiar 00:09:43.620 --> 00:09:46.840 flavors in a new and different way and something 00:09:46.840 --> 00:09:50.539 that clicks. And also this effect that once you 00:09:50.539 --> 00:09:53.820 explain it, everybody says, ah, you know, like 00:09:53.820 --> 00:09:56.860 when you say, yeah, there's blue cheese in the 00:09:56.860 --> 00:09:59.120 cheesecake and everybody goes like, of course 00:09:59.120 --> 00:10:01.779 there is, you know, but now I get it, you know, 00:10:01.799 --> 00:10:03.940 like, and I think that's also like a very... 00:10:04.320 --> 00:10:08.320 cool effect or something to play around oh yeah 00:10:08.320 --> 00:10:11.299 100 and it's like it's also a way of just like 00:10:11.299 --> 00:10:13.559 exploring and testing out because like if you 00:10:13.559 --> 00:10:16.039 if you're in a country that's not necessarily 00:10:16.039 --> 00:10:19.519 your own or even if you are in in your own country 00:10:19.519 --> 00:10:22.620 you know you're trying things that um that are 00:10:22.620 --> 00:10:27.509 sort of new to you it's also a way of of understanding 00:10:27.509 --> 00:10:30.929 it more right you're approaching something with 00:10:30.929 --> 00:10:34.610 your own mindset and you're delving into that 00:10:34.610 --> 00:10:36.990 like if you've never eaten raw fish before right 00:10:36.990 --> 00:10:41.529 or um and maybe you have a different reference 00:10:41.529 --> 00:10:44.629 you know you maybe you'll slice some raw salmon 00:10:44.629 --> 00:10:47.289 you make like a little mustard dressing you know 00:10:47.289 --> 00:10:48.750 because that's what you're used to and you put 00:10:48.750 --> 00:10:50.549 it around and you eat it and you're kind of like 00:10:50.549 --> 00:10:56.210 okay i see and And you're involving yourself 00:10:56.210 --> 00:10:58.169 with this thing that you don't know. And at the 00:10:58.169 --> 00:11:00.970 end of the day, right, cooking is an endless 00:11:00.970 --> 00:11:05.669 stream of curiosity, ideally, right? So I think 00:11:05.669 --> 00:11:08.330 that's very beneficial. Like you say, like, it's 00:11:08.330 --> 00:11:10.929 a win -win situation because you're involving 00:11:10.929 --> 00:11:12.370 yourself with something new, you're learning, 00:11:12.409 --> 00:11:14.950 you're testing something. But at the same time, 00:11:14.950 --> 00:11:18.090 you're tapping into something that, you know, 00:11:18.110 --> 00:11:22.250 the people who are from that place like, right? 00:11:22.909 --> 00:11:25.429 Phil, do you recommend podcasts to your friends? 00:11:25.690 --> 00:11:28.549 All the time. The best way of showing friends 00:11:28.549 --> 00:11:30.690 that you care is recommending a great podcast 00:11:30.690 --> 00:11:33.830 to listen to. I agree. If you're listening right 00:11:33.830 --> 00:11:36.230 now, you should show your love by recommending 00:11:36.230 --> 00:11:39.769 our show to all your best friends. It will make 00:11:39.769 --> 00:11:42.889 them happy. It will make us happy. PopLock Food 00:11:42.889 --> 00:11:45.590 Talks. Tell your friends. It will make the world 00:11:45.590 --> 00:11:51.029 a better place. So in the first episode of this 00:11:51.029 --> 00:11:57.110 series, I asked you what was value for you, and 00:11:57.110 --> 00:12:02.470 you said flavor reigns supreme for you. But if 00:12:02.470 --> 00:12:07.149 we ask what is flavor, and the intrinsic answer 00:12:07.149 --> 00:12:10.870 to that question is that you taste as much with 00:12:10.870 --> 00:12:14.779 your tongue as you do with your brain. do you 00:12:14.779 --> 00:12:18.500 put that into the equation? Because I was mentioning 00:12:18.500 --> 00:12:22.279 here a few examples of using stuff that is familiar 00:12:22.279 --> 00:12:25.500 for your specific audience, like the chicharrón 00:12:25.500 --> 00:12:28.519 or the coffee miso example. I also recently was 00:12:28.519 --> 00:12:31.100 having a conversation with John Reggefalk, and 00:12:31.100 --> 00:12:34.539 I asked him, like, if you have to, let's say, 00:12:34.580 --> 00:12:37.340 Paraguayan cuisine, if you have to figure out 00:12:37.340 --> 00:12:40.679 what Paraguayan cuisine is, where do you start? 00:12:40.860 --> 00:12:43.740 And he says... Well, first of all, I would travel 00:12:43.740 --> 00:12:48.159 to Paraguay and I would eat a lot in places and 00:12:48.159 --> 00:12:51.100 not necessarily fine dining places because at 00:12:51.100 --> 00:12:54.200 the end of the day, fine dining is already showcasing 00:12:54.200 --> 00:12:57.299 things that are rooted in the minds of the people. 00:12:57.379 --> 00:13:00.840 I would actually go to the small places or the 00:13:00.840 --> 00:13:04.139 grandmothers and eat there. Of course. Because 00:13:04.139 --> 00:13:06.620 he said, and I thought this was very interesting, 00:13:06.759 --> 00:13:10.919 there you will see things that are implicit. 00:13:11.500 --> 00:13:14.580 that are not written in cookbooks. You know, 00:13:14.620 --> 00:13:18.340 just thinking out loud and saying a silly example, 00:13:18.620 --> 00:13:22.620 imagine there's a place where you've seen cilantro. 00:13:23.559 --> 00:13:25.820 raw all your life and then you come somewhere 00:13:25.820 --> 00:13:28.259 and they cook cilantro for hours and you have 00:13:28.259 --> 00:13:30.200 this great thing that generates like a completely 00:13:30.200 --> 00:13:32.299 different flavor profile and that's something 00:13:32.299 --> 00:13:34.820 that they relate to and reminds them of their 00:13:34.820 --> 00:13:37.740 grandmothers right like absolutely and then if 00:13:37.740 --> 00:13:41.179 you know that if you have the here you're again 00:13:41.179 --> 00:13:43.639 playing like a detective and you find like ah 00:13:43.639 --> 00:13:46.299 there's something that the people relates to 00:13:46.299 --> 00:13:50.049 and using that and in let's say in a completely 00:13:50.049 --> 00:13:51.990 different setting in a fine dining setting where 00:13:51.990 --> 00:13:54.710 you generate just to make a silly example again 00:13:54.710 --> 00:13:58.110 some drops of the same flavor of that overcooked 00:13:58.110 --> 00:14:02.200 cilantro that makes click You're in a completely 00:14:02.200 --> 00:14:04.320 different level if you're putting that into the 00:14:04.320 --> 00:14:06.700 equations of what you're playing. I also remember 00:14:06.700 --> 00:14:11.120 Enrique Limardo. He's a Venezuelan chef that 00:14:11.120 --> 00:14:13.980 has many restaurants in Washington, D .C. and 00:14:13.980 --> 00:14:17.379 Baltimore. And I remember eating that food and 00:14:17.379 --> 00:14:20.860 it reminds me of kind of like the fine dining 00:14:20.860 --> 00:14:23.740 scene in Caracas where I grew up and where he's 00:14:23.740 --> 00:14:27.100 also from, but not quite because the... kind 00:14:27.100 --> 00:14:29.740 of like the approach because it's a very cosmopolitan 00:14:29.740 --> 00:14:33.200 city. Cosmopolitan in the sense that people will 00:14:33.200 --> 00:14:36.379 look for influences in Europe and in the United 00:14:36.379 --> 00:14:39.539 States and bring those things to the fine dining 00:14:39.539 --> 00:14:41.240 scene and that's something very common there. 00:14:41.419 --> 00:14:44.259 What I saw there was like a very Latin American 00:14:44.259 --> 00:14:46.740 food but with a completely different approach. 00:14:46.960 --> 00:14:48.720 And I asked him like, how would you define your 00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:52.799 food? And he said like... I wouldn't know what 00:14:52.799 --> 00:14:55.340 it is because it's not Venezuelan, it is Latin 00:14:55.340 --> 00:14:58.559 American, but it's also like from the United 00:14:58.559 --> 00:15:01.460 States. But something he said that I thought 00:15:01.460 --> 00:15:04.960 it was very interesting is that he tried all 00:15:04.960 --> 00:15:07.269 the restaurants in the city. to understand how 00:15:07.269 --> 00:15:10.870 the palate works there. That's also a way to 00:15:10.870 --> 00:15:14.809 understand how people taste, what people like, 00:15:14.909 --> 00:15:19.690 what are the levels of acidity or of umami or 00:15:19.690 --> 00:15:23.570 of salt or of many things that are in a specific 00:15:23.570 --> 00:15:26.690 culture. Yeah, for sure. I mean, this is also 00:15:26.690 --> 00:15:30.629 something interesting. I've seen it a lot of 00:15:30.629 --> 00:15:33.330 times, people hating on other restaurants, where 00:15:33.330 --> 00:15:36.259 it's kind of like... chefs that open a restaurant 00:15:36.259 --> 00:15:38.159 somewhere and they go to eat at the popular restaurants 00:15:38.159 --> 00:15:42.679 right and they go there and they go here and 00:15:42.679 --> 00:15:44.159 they're sort of like ah this is shit that is 00:15:44.159 --> 00:15:47.700 shit and you can be sort of like well maybe you 00:15:47.700 --> 00:15:50.799 don't like it but they're full like they're full 00:15:50.799 --> 00:15:53.720 every day so people obviously like it so you 00:15:53.720 --> 00:15:55.379 can hate it as much as you want but people love 00:15:55.379 --> 00:15:58.220 it right and you should you should keep that 00:15:58.220 --> 00:16:01.419 in mind and you should learn something like why 00:16:01.419 --> 00:16:06.639 why is it full like what what where does people 00:16:06.639 --> 00:16:09.879 find value here because there you have like a 00:16:09.879 --> 00:16:13.039 very interesting insight to apply on your own 00:16:13.039 --> 00:16:16.879 business and if you're only you know like looking 00:16:16.879 --> 00:16:19.779 at from a hate perspective like oh look this 00:16:19.779 --> 00:16:23.360 shit food and they're full well that's your problem 00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:25.840 you know that's so lazy and that's so easy to 00:16:25.840 --> 00:16:29.220 have that sort of thing and it's like it's I 00:16:29.220 --> 00:16:32.139 don't know. It's much nicer and much more beneficial 00:16:32.139 --> 00:16:34.879 to you when you start trying to find value in 00:16:34.879 --> 00:16:37.500 everything. But yeah, to go back to this question 00:16:37.500 --> 00:16:40.120 of sort of like, okay, what is taste? What is 00:16:40.120 --> 00:16:45.039 flavor? What makes something flavorful? That's 00:16:45.039 --> 00:16:47.460 so complex. Like you said, the example that you 00:16:47.460 --> 00:16:50.059 made with different associations that people 00:16:50.059 --> 00:16:55.840 have to something. It goes so far and wide. And 00:16:55.840 --> 00:17:00.899 I keep... finding things in just that topic that 00:17:00.899 --> 00:17:03.679 are very subtle very very subtle and often very 00:17:03.679 --> 00:17:06.079 hard to pinpoint of course we can say freshly 00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:09.019 cooked rice to somebody from Japan is going to 00:17:09.019 --> 00:17:11.579 evoke something different than to me or the smell 00:17:11.579 --> 00:17:13.599 of masa that we talked about not too long ago 00:17:13.599 --> 00:17:15.599 you know to somebody from Mexico if they smell 00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:19.119 masa somewhere right that's very very subtle 00:17:19.119 --> 00:17:25.359 but I think like for me flavor and also you know 00:17:26.109 --> 00:17:27.569 Going back to what we were talking about, the 00:17:27.569 --> 00:17:31.190 value and this idea of doing something good for 00:17:31.190 --> 00:17:33.369 somebody, having something that nurtures them, 00:17:33.470 --> 00:17:36.670 right? In experience, but maybe also just in 00:17:36.670 --> 00:17:40.490 what they consume. I thought that for me, an 00:17:40.490 --> 00:17:45.890 eye -opening moment was when I read Dan Barber's 00:17:45.890 --> 00:17:51.309 book, The Third Plate, and he related the nutrition 00:17:51.309 --> 00:17:55.859 and the freshness. of a vegetable to its deliciousness 00:17:55.859 --> 00:17:59.140 you know the more nutritious the more delicious 00:17:59.140 --> 00:18:04.240 and to me that made so much sense because when 00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:08.519 you've ever experienced going to a garden and 00:18:08.519 --> 00:18:11.920 you know like i remember when that's one of the 00:18:11.920 --> 00:18:14.980 main things that i remember from being in margot 00:18:14.980 --> 00:18:19.869 michael hopfman getting a celeriac from the ground 00:18:19.869 --> 00:18:21.829 not the like big fat ones that you know from 00:18:21.829 --> 00:18:23.809 the supermarket but like a little knobby one 00:18:23.809 --> 00:18:26.130 and he cut it open and he was like smell this 00:18:26.130 --> 00:18:29.150 and it was like on steroids you know and you 00:18:29.150 --> 00:18:31.430 were it was dense you know like really dense 00:18:31.430 --> 00:18:34.369 not not like a sponge like it was really compact 00:18:34.369 --> 00:18:38.609 yeah exactly and um and what reinforced that 00:18:38.609 --> 00:18:41.349 experience was one time i am sure i told the 00:18:41.349 --> 00:18:44.470 story before but it's still to this day uh one 00:18:44.470 --> 00:18:47.309 of the most impactful food experiences i've had 00:18:47.869 --> 00:18:51.190 is working in that garden in the summer, super 00:18:51.190 --> 00:18:55.089 hot, sweating my balls off. And at some point 00:18:55.089 --> 00:18:58.029 wanting to make a quick lunch with another apprentice 00:18:58.029 --> 00:19:00.170 who I was there with. And so we started picking 00:19:00.170 --> 00:19:03.130 a salad and we threw in everything, edible flowers, 00:19:03.329 --> 00:19:06.869 herbs, whatever, you know. And this salad, every 00:19:06.869 --> 00:19:10.250 single bite of this freshly picked, well -grown 00:19:10.250 --> 00:19:16.009 food. was like a smack in the face, full of juice 00:19:16.009 --> 00:19:20.609 and taste and minerals and just full on substance. 00:19:20.950 --> 00:19:25.109 And I think that when we talk about ingredient 00:19:25.109 --> 00:19:28.150 focused cooking, that that is a big part that, 00:19:28.150 --> 00:19:30.210 you know, cooking fresh is like, why is that 00:19:30.210 --> 00:19:33.470 good? You know, why is it good? It is just the 00:19:33.470 --> 00:19:35.769 fact that if you have a strawberry that you pick 00:19:35.769 --> 00:19:37.910 from the ground, you put it in your mouth, it's 00:19:37.910 --> 00:19:40.890 still warm from the sun. Whether you pick it, 00:19:40.970 --> 00:19:43.809 you put it in a box, you drive it to the restaurant, 00:19:44.049 --> 00:19:46.809 put it on a plate and give it to somebody. It's 00:19:46.809 --> 00:19:48.930 not going to taste as good. It might still be 00:19:48.930 --> 00:19:50.769 a very, very good strawberry, but it's different. 00:19:50.970 --> 00:19:55.230 And chasing that high is... That is still incredibly 00:19:55.230 --> 00:19:57.730 good. But we're talking about putting it in a 00:19:57.730 --> 00:20:01.390 fridge for weeks and then in a soup. You know, 00:20:01.430 --> 00:20:06.349 like the value chain is much longer. You know, 00:20:06.349 --> 00:20:10.910 like apples are... month ahead from from three 00:20:10.910 --> 00:20:15.730 to bite there are months of difference like usually 00:20:15.730 --> 00:20:19.890 more than 10 months for from three to bite you 00:20:19.890 --> 00:20:23.069 know like that's crazy absolutely yeah and this 00:20:23.069 --> 00:20:25.849 is kind of like you know some some chefs they 00:20:25.849 --> 00:20:27.609 chase something different right but like for 00:20:27.609 --> 00:20:34.099 me this has always been like almost a it's such 00:20:34.099 --> 00:20:37.660 a such a noble pursuit to try and source good 00:20:37.660 --> 00:20:40.740 ingredients and just transform them slightly 00:20:40.740 --> 00:20:43.819 to bring them onto the plate like so that you 00:20:43.819 --> 00:20:47.799 can to embezzle them a little bit you know just 00:20:47.799 --> 00:20:50.420 to make them you know a little bit here a little 00:20:50.420 --> 00:20:52.579 bit there you put them into like a little framework 00:20:52.579 --> 00:20:56.940 and you serve them so which brings me also to 00:20:56.940 --> 00:20:59.819 an interesting question In this framework that 00:20:59.819 --> 00:21:03.140 we're working on, just to recap, where there 00:21:03.140 --> 00:21:07.180 are like five phases, it's nonlinear, but it 00:21:07.180 --> 00:21:10.660 would be resources, technique, transformation, 00:21:11.420 --> 00:21:17.099 flavor, and value. In that, there is technique 00:21:17.099 --> 00:21:20.079 and transformation, one next to the other. And 00:21:20.079 --> 00:21:22.119 my question would be, when do you apply technique? 00:21:22.809 --> 00:21:25.950 to transform something and when do you prefer 00:21:25.950 --> 00:21:29.170 leave something untouched and how to play around 00:21:29.170 --> 00:21:31.650 with that because for example as you say if you 00:21:31.650 --> 00:21:35.039 have like a a beautiful strawberry, maybe you 00:21:35.039 --> 00:21:37.460 don't want to do anything with it. But you can 00:21:37.460 --> 00:21:42.339 also do an incredibly nice vinegar out of it. 00:21:42.339 --> 00:21:47.019 You ferment it and first you make like a wine 00:21:47.019 --> 00:21:49.759 and then you make a vinegar out of it or other 00:21:49.759 --> 00:21:51.859 things, you know, like or a kombucha or whatever. 00:21:52.140 --> 00:21:55.599 What's your decision process to that? Would you, 00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:58.400 for example, leave if you could? If you had like 00:21:58.400 --> 00:22:02.920 an hypothetical dream restaurant, would you leave 00:22:02.920 --> 00:22:05.359 everything untouched and maybe just grilled a 00:22:05.359 --> 00:22:08.700 few things? Or not at all? Or there are things 00:22:08.700 --> 00:22:11.519 that you definitely would process? I think that 00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:15.460 almost everything is an applied technique and 00:22:15.460 --> 00:22:18.500 a transformation. I think as soon as you pluck, 00:22:18.700 --> 00:22:21.779 let's keep the example of the strawberry, right? 00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:25.349 I think as soon as you pluck something. You've 00:22:25.349 --> 00:22:29.170 transformed it. You started a timer, right? Yeah, 00:22:29.190 --> 00:22:32.369 and that's already technique and science. The 00:22:32.369 --> 00:22:34.549 moment you take an apple from a tree, that's 00:22:34.549 --> 00:22:38.450 food science already happening. Absolutely, yeah. 00:22:38.750 --> 00:22:43.490 If you now take the strawberry and you decide 00:22:43.490 --> 00:22:45.869 to not do anything with it, just leave it whole 00:22:45.869 --> 00:22:48.450 and put it on the plate, that's a choice, right? 00:22:48.549 --> 00:22:52.750 That is a choice that you are making. to cut 00:22:52.750 --> 00:22:55.170 it in half or dice it really fine or smoosh it 00:22:55.170 --> 00:22:57.309 or just leave it whole. That's a choice. That's 00:22:57.309 --> 00:23:02.410 already also a technique, right? And I think 00:23:02.410 --> 00:23:04.910 that what you're saying is sort of like, okay, 00:23:05.009 --> 00:23:07.730 where do you, I think it's like the idea of sort 00:23:07.730 --> 00:23:09.990 of like, how much can I take away? You know, 00:23:10.049 --> 00:23:15.690 if we can leave the strawberry as it is, if it's 00:23:15.690 --> 00:23:17.609 good enough as it is, you can't do anything to 00:23:17.609 --> 00:23:20.529 it. Amazing, right? If you have a beautiful turbot. 00:23:21.289 --> 00:23:24.009 You know, how much can you take away? You have 00:23:24.009 --> 00:23:27.309 a turbot, you have salt, you have charcoal. That's 00:23:27.309 --> 00:23:29.750 already very little, right? Then a pan and a 00:23:29.750 --> 00:23:32.269 stove and some oil and this and an oven and like 00:23:32.269 --> 00:23:36.990 whatever. How can you, with the shortest way, 00:23:37.150 --> 00:23:39.529 get the best out of the product? I think that's 00:23:39.529 --> 00:23:44.349 the way. Okay. And now I want to continue with 00:23:44.349 --> 00:23:46.349 the example of the turbo because I think it's 00:23:46.349 --> 00:23:49.029 interesting. You have a turbo, you grill it, 00:23:49.049 --> 00:23:53.240 as you said. uh what do you build around it um 00:23:53.240 --> 00:23:55.920 do you add a sauce do you add a salad do you 00:23:55.920 --> 00:24:01.559 add a puree what and why like how do you build 00:24:01.559 --> 00:24:04.480 around it yeah i mean that again it depends really 00:24:04.480 --> 00:24:07.119 like where you are right and like what you what 00:24:07.119 --> 00:24:09.119 your idea is like you want to have it to be shared 00:24:09.119 --> 00:24:11.079 do you want to like then take the fillets off 00:24:11.079 --> 00:24:13.700 and have it like as a as an individual main course 00:24:13.700 --> 00:24:16.960 um and i think you should always build around 00:24:16.960 --> 00:24:19.099 like what's best right so if we want to we want 00:24:19.099 --> 00:24:22.619 flavor So we want things that are in the prime 00:24:22.619 --> 00:24:25.440 of their existence. So in spring, it's going 00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:28.000 to be, you know, little shoots and, you know, 00:24:28.019 --> 00:24:33.259 blossoms and, you know, sprouting herbs. In summer, 00:24:33.299 --> 00:24:36.259 it's going to be plentiful salads, you know, 00:24:36.279 --> 00:24:40.980 vegetables, etc. In autumn, you know, the vegetables 00:24:40.980 --> 00:24:43.740 change. And in winter, you know, root vegetables 00:24:43.740 --> 00:24:46.900 and preserves. Like, obviously, like you have... 00:24:47.240 --> 00:24:50.079 a sort of storytelling but also you're limiting 00:24:50.079 --> 00:24:52.220 yourself to have the things that are in the prime 00:24:52.220 --> 00:24:54.099 of their existence when they're at the very peak 00:24:54.099 --> 00:24:56.920 of their ripeness and the peak as we discussed 00:24:56.920 --> 00:24:59.900 before you know nutrition and nutritional value 00:24:59.900 --> 00:25:03.440 means deliciousness so this sounds very like 00:25:03.440 --> 00:25:06.920 you know nutritional and like dietitiany but 00:25:06.920 --> 00:25:09.500 you are basically just choosing whatever is the 00:25:09.500 --> 00:25:12.279 tastiest It's the tastiest. There's a reason 00:25:12.279 --> 00:25:15.359 why you should only eat strawberries at a certain 00:25:15.359 --> 00:25:17.019 time. Because when you eat them in December, 00:25:17.140 --> 00:25:20.039 they just taste like fucking wood, right? When 00:25:20.039 --> 00:25:22.480 you eat a salad in the middle of summer, when 00:25:22.480 --> 00:25:25.160 it's just cut from the ground, when was the last 00:25:25.160 --> 00:25:26.859 time you thought about the flavor of a salad, 00:25:26.980 --> 00:25:29.839 you know? For us, often salad is just a vehicle 00:25:29.839 --> 00:25:34.519 for the dressing, no? But salad that is well 00:25:34.519 --> 00:25:39.690 -grown and freshly cut has a flavor. So it's 00:25:39.690 --> 00:25:41.630 basically almost like making your life easier. 00:25:41.670 --> 00:25:43.809 You're choosing the most delicious things. At 00:25:43.809 --> 00:25:45.289 the same time, it's interesting because you're 00:25:45.289 --> 00:25:48.130 moving through the year. And we as people, we 00:25:48.130 --> 00:25:51.089 just have an intrinsic connection to nature, 00:25:51.170 --> 00:25:53.849 just as we have an intrinsic connection to things 00:25:53.849 --> 00:25:57.009 being grilled over fire. So you're already building 00:25:57.009 --> 00:25:59.670 on things that you know we have a connection 00:25:59.670 --> 00:26:02.859 to that just feels right and feels good. Hey, 00:26:02.940 --> 00:26:05.720 Phil, have you subscribed to our newsletter yet? 00:26:05.960 --> 00:26:08.779 We have a newsletter? What's a newsletter about, 00:26:08.920 --> 00:26:11.859 Eric? Every month we share one cool thing from 00:26:11.859 --> 00:26:14.099 the world of food and restaurants, and occasionally 00:26:14.099 --> 00:26:17.779 a recipe we swore we'd never share. Like your 00:26:17.779 --> 00:26:20.859 secret boiled egg lemon tart recipe. But Eric, 00:26:21.099 --> 00:26:24.579 that was my grandma's secret recipe. Not anymore. 00:26:24.900 --> 00:26:27.940 Subscribe to our newsletter where we unveil all 00:26:27.940 --> 00:26:34.150 of Phil's grandmother's secrets. Something I 00:26:34.150 --> 00:26:39.710 wanted to go into, sauces. Like, how do you design 00:26:39.710 --> 00:26:44.170 a fish sauce, for example? Butter -based sauce. 00:26:45.009 --> 00:26:47.910 What are the layers that you build on a sauce? 00:26:48.210 --> 00:26:51.789 Do you use, I don't know, agarum as a base, and 00:26:51.789 --> 00:26:55.029 then you mount it with butter, and that's it? 00:26:55.289 --> 00:26:58.589 Just two elements, or you add some acidity to 00:26:58.589 --> 00:27:02.519 it? For example, here, the... The sauce applied 00:27:02.519 --> 00:27:05.539 to also Basque cuisine is very minimalistic. 00:27:05.779 --> 00:27:09.259 But here, the sauce that you make, sauce or kind 00:27:09.259 --> 00:27:12.500 of like an emulsion -y kind of stuff that you 00:27:12.500 --> 00:27:15.299 put on top of grilled fish, it is four ingredients. 00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:18.519 It is olive oil, garlic, chili, and vinegar. 00:27:19.500 --> 00:27:22.940 Emulsified, warm, and that's it. And you don't 00:27:22.940 --> 00:27:25.900 need anything else, really. But it's also nice, 00:27:26.220 --> 00:27:30.220 you know, to have like... A sauce that makes 00:27:30.220 --> 00:27:33.400 you travel, you know, that makes you go somewhere 00:27:33.400 --> 00:27:37.579 else. And you get that with flavor, like with 00:27:37.579 --> 00:27:43.680 deep, intense and thoughtful flavors. Was there 00:27:43.680 --> 00:27:46.220 a design process around that? This is difficult 00:27:46.220 --> 00:27:51.359 to answer for me, right? Because food is... There 00:27:51.359 --> 00:27:53.940 are many things that we can talk about and many 00:27:53.940 --> 00:28:03.640 logical... deviations and approaches and ideas 00:28:03.640 --> 00:28:06.640 that make sense right like we can talk about 00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:11.859 acid cutting through fat or you know those sorts 00:28:11.859 --> 00:28:15.920 of things but i think at the end of the day food 00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:21.519 is just emotional to a level that is almost beyond 00:28:21.519 --> 00:28:27.170 explanation i think that the best cooking and 00:28:27.170 --> 00:28:32.109 the best dishes and the best chefs also it happens 00:28:32.109 --> 00:28:37.250 when people feel right so and this is why it's 00:28:37.250 --> 00:28:39.250 for me it's kind of difficult to talk i can go 00:28:39.250 --> 00:28:42.910 into like about my personal approach because 00:28:42.910 --> 00:28:46.750 i don't approach something in a logical way i 00:28:46.750 --> 00:28:50.109 look at something and i i love food i love eating 00:28:50.109 --> 00:28:54.349 and i love cooking and i just kind of like i 00:28:54.349 --> 00:28:58.869 i I creep forward. I think to myself, what do 00:28:58.869 --> 00:29:02.170 I want? What would I like? For example, talking 00:29:02.170 --> 00:29:04.549 about fish sauces, right? We talk about a red 00:29:04.549 --> 00:29:07.609 mullet. You have a beautiful red mullet and you're 00:29:07.609 --> 00:29:09.849 like, I love red mullet. Why do I like red mullet? 00:29:10.190 --> 00:29:12.829 Because it has this particular kind of flavor. 00:29:13.250 --> 00:29:16.289 It has the flaky flesh. It has the orange oil. 00:29:16.609 --> 00:29:18.930 It's a little bit fatty. It's very delicate. 00:29:19.150 --> 00:29:21.430 And you're kind of like, well, what would I like 00:29:21.430 --> 00:29:23.509 to eat with it? Would I like something super 00:29:23.509 --> 00:29:26.529 heavy and like... you know double cream boiled 00:29:26.529 --> 00:29:29.789 down maybe maybe not do i want something fresher 00:29:29.789 --> 00:29:31.990 do i want to lift it up do i want something summery 00:29:31.990 --> 00:29:36.049 it's it's more it's not really a logical path 00:29:36.049 --> 00:29:40.150 it's more like an emotion right what do i feel 00:29:40.150 --> 00:29:42.230 what direction feels good to me and then you 00:29:42.230 --> 00:29:47.349 explore that and once you have a certain i think 00:29:47.349 --> 00:29:50.099 it's important to Why is it important to have 00:29:50.099 --> 00:29:53.220 a technical foundation of ability? If you know 00:29:53.220 --> 00:29:55.019 how to make all the mother sauces and this and 00:29:55.019 --> 00:29:57.200 that and blah, you know how to make a jus, it's 00:29:57.200 --> 00:30:02.359 because you can free your mind. You have this 00:30:02.359 --> 00:30:05.579 technical ability and you can step away from 00:30:05.579 --> 00:30:08.720 this very tight framework and you can apply it 00:30:08.720 --> 00:30:12.299 to everything. You can make a fish sauce out 00:30:12.299 --> 00:30:16.680 of... fermented tomato water right and you're 00:30:16.680 --> 00:30:18.640 sort of like i have sweetness i have acidity 00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:22.160 i add some fat you know maybe i have like a nice 00:30:22.160 --> 00:30:24.160 oil that i made out of a herb or just a nice 00:30:24.160 --> 00:30:26.599 olive oil or whatever and you make a sauce out 00:30:26.599 --> 00:30:29.559 of that that gives you the same aspects of you 00:30:29.559 --> 00:30:34.259 know maybe a classic sauce but using different 00:30:34.259 --> 00:30:36.519 things right so you you're making something that's 00:30:36.519 --> 00:30:40.339 more interesting and more unknown um because 00:30:40.339 --> 00:30:43.990 you understand what you're after. You understand 00:30:43.990 --> 00:30:47.650 the foundation of what you're working with. Right. 00:30:48.089 --> 00:30:52.509 Does that make sense? Absolutely. Yeah. So, um, 00:30:52.809 --> 00:30:55.809 and I, by the way, I think that would be like 00:30:55.809 --> 00:31:00.470 an amazing sauce, just like, like the, uh, fermented, 00:31:00.710 --> 00:31:05.029 uh, water from cherry tomatoes and some, let's 00:31:05.029 --> 00:31:08.450 say basil oil. That's it. There's your sauce, 00:31:08.529 --> 00:31:10.490 you know, like it doesn't even have to be thick. 00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:13.700 It can be like a little broth around the fish 00:31:13.700 --> 00:31:16.140 and that would be a beautiful dish for sure. 00:31:16.279 --> 00:31:18.279 Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, I took that 00:31:18.279 --> 00:31:20.160 as an example because I've done that a couple 00:31:20.160 --> 00:31:22.039 of times. Also with different things. I used 00:31:22.039 --> 00:31:24.920 that as a sauce for cioletta at one point. And 00:31:24.920 --> 00:31:27.220 it was amazing. You know, fatty grilled cioletta 00:31:27.220 --> 00:31:30.960 with this like tomato flavor. And again, it's 00:31:30.960 --> 00:31:32.460 sort of like you have the fat of the cioletta, 00:31:32.460 --> 00:31:34.160 you have the roastiness, you have the meat juices, 00:31:34.180 --> 00:31:36.940 and then you have this like sharp umami acidity. 00:31:37.819 --> 00:31:42.920 of lightly warmed thick tomato sauce, but completely 00:31:42.920 --> 00:31:47.839 clear. And if you kind of understand how things 00:31:47.839 --> 00:31:50.579 work, it's the same with fermentation and emulsions, 00:31:50.579 --> 00:31:53.099 and you sort of understand how things work in 00:31:53.099 --> 00:31:55.640 their essence, then you can play around with 00:31:55.640 --> 00:31:59.640 that. I think that's when you kind of move to 00:31:59.640 --> 00:32:02.859 a new level of cooking. Also something I thought 00:32:02.859 --> 00:32:05.599 was very interesting about what you said. And 00:32:05.599 --> 00:32:12.420 so I've engaged in many creative processes, not 00:32:12.420 --> 00:32:15.339 only cooking. Actually, cooking is the less that 00:32:15.339 --> 00:32:19.200 I'm engaged right now. But in other things where 00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:24.480 actually my search is to go for the non -obvious, 00:32:24.619 --> 00:32:26.859 right? And I think that's one of the definitions 00:32:26.859 --> 00:32:31.319 of innovation. is something that has an industrial 00:32:31.319 --> 00:32:34.500 application and is non -obvious even for the 00:32:34.500 --> 00:32:38.220 experts. I think that's actually the definition 00:32:38.220 --> 00:32:41.259 for something that can be patentable on the industry. 00:32:41.519 --> 00:32:43.799 Somebody shows up, makes something that has a 00:32:43.799 --> 00:32:45.880 patent, and everybody goes like, oh, we never 00:32:45.880 --> 00:32:48.579 thought about it. But we could have. We have 00:32:48.579 --> 00:32:50.480 the resources. We could have thought about it, 00:32:50.500 --> 00:32:55.230 but nobody ever thought about it before. So in 00:32:55.230 --> 00:32:57.450 the airport today, you have like suitcases with 00:32:57.450 --> 00:33:03.029 wheels, right? But then if you see the... And 00:33:03.029 --> 00:33:06.930 how old are wheels? Maybe as old as civilization 00:33:06.930 --> 00:33:13.769 itself. But if you see the pictures of when the 00:33:13.769 --> 00:33:15.950 first astronauts went to the moon, they were 00:33:15.950 --> 00:33:19.990 walking into the rockets to be launched, and 00:33:19.990 --> 00:33:22.269 they were carrying their suitcases in their hand. 00:33:22.829 --> 00:33:26.009 So there were suitcases and wheels there all 00:33:26.009 --> 00:33:27.970 the time, but nobody thought about putting the 00:33:27.970 --> 00:33:31.589 two things together. And actually, as humans, 00:33:31.690 --> 00:33:34.549 we landed in the moon first before getting into 00:33:34.549 --> 00:33:37.890 that. And those things are finding two things 00:33:37.890 --> 00:33:42.049 that are there for you to see. But there was 00:33:42.049 --> 00:33:44.950 also this quote about innovation, that innovation 00:33:44.950 --> 00:33:49.630 is seeing what nobody else sees, right? And in 00:33:49.630 --> 00:33:51.670 the kitchen, you have so many resources and so 00:33:51.670 --> 00:33:55.809 many things that are usually, or I will say... 00:33:56.250 --> 00:33:59.230 traditionally thrown away, like the oil of your 00:33:59.230 --> 00:34:02.150 can of anchovies or the brine of your pickled 00:34:02.150 --> 00:34:06.109 cucumbers. There are so many things that you 00:34:06.109 --> 00:34:08.389 take the cucumbers and you throw the water away. 00:34:08.570 --> 00:34:10.369 You take the anchovies, you throw the oil away. 00:34:10.570 --> 00:34:14.030 There are so many resources that you could actually 00:34:14.030 --> 00:34:16.630 put those things together and there you have 00:34:16.630 --> 00:34:22.030 something. Like anchovy oil and cucumber brine, 00:34:22.090 --> 00:34:25.880 that's addressing already. And looking for those 00:34:25.880 --> 00:34:28.679 things and figuring out how to apply them and 00:34:28.679 --> 00:34:33.219 use them and on top of what, I think that's very, 00:34:33.300 --> 00:34:33.760 very interesting.