WEBVTT 00:00:04.169 --> 00:00:06.730 Hi, everyone. Welcome to Pot Luck Food Talks, 00:00:06.730 --> 00:00:08.810 the show where we talk food and kitchens from 00:00:08.810 --> 00:00:11.150 a cook's point of view. We're recording from 00:00:11.150 --> 00:00:13.750 a place where the burners are loud, the room 00:00:13.750 --> 00:00:16.690 is tense, and someone is quietly asking, is this 00:00:16.690 --> 00:00:20.609 still Thai or something else? My name is Eric 00:00:20.609 --> 00:00:22.769 Emilio, and I'm here with Philly Vanilli. Neither 00:00:22.769 --> 00:00:25.980 of us is qualified to define authenticity. though 00:00:25.980 --> 00:00:28.339 both of us have opinions. Today is not really 00:00:28.339 --> 00:00:30.699 about Thai food. It's about what happens when 00:00:30.699 --> 00:00:33.759 a cuisine stops being a place and becomes a language 00:00:33.759 --> 00:00:37.500 that can be translated. So what stays, what changes, 00:00:37.679 --> 00:00:41.979 what gets louder, what disappears. Because Thai 00:00:41.979 --> 00:00:44.560 cooking is in balance, it's tension. And the 00:00:44.560 --> 00:00:46.759 question is simple. Are you still speaking it 00:00:46.759 --> 00:00:52.109 or just using it? Today with us, we have Mark 00:00:52.109 --> 00:00:55.429 Hill, AKA The Social Distortion. And we're going 00:00:55.429 --> 00:00:58.329 to talk about all of these issues, but first. 00:01:08.810 --> 00:01:12.510 So hi Mark, how are you doing? Nice having you 00:01:12.510 --> 00:01:14.750 here. I'm all right. Thank you very much for 00:01:14.750 --> 00:01:16.920 having me guys. Really appreciate it. What I 00:01:16.920 --> 00:01:20.420 wanted to ask, I'm not so super familiar with 00:01:20.420 --> 00:01:24.640 Thai food. But my understanding, and here, correct 00:01:24.640 --> 00:01:26.840 me if I'm wrong, I think that there are some 00:01:26.840 --> 00:01:30.540 main elements, for sure, strong condiments, the 00:01:30.540 --> 00:01:33.579 curry paste is part of that, also fish sauces. 00:01:34.099 --> 00:01:38.159 Then your main component, which can be vegetable 00:01:38.159 --> 00:01:41.340 or meat or fish or whatever, and there's lots 00:01:41.340 --> 00:01:45.219 of fresh herbs on top. I would say that those 00:01:45.219 --> 00:01:47.700 are things that you see again and again in different... 00:01:48.170 --> 00:01:51.510 In different recipes. For me, that's kind of 00:01:51.510 --> 00:01:53.409 like the essence. Is that like that for you? 00:01:53.469 --> 00:01:57.049 And when you talk about translating Thai cuisine 00:01:57.049 --> 00:02:00.469 into your local environment, what are you exactly 00:02:00.469 --> 00:02:03.750 talking about? I cook Thai cuisine out of anything, 00:02:04.010 --> 00:02:06.189 fucking anything and everything. You know, I 00:02:06.189 --> 00:02:09.710 was climbing trees around my local area the other 00:02:09.710 --> 00:02:13.210 night before a pop -up down the road to gather 00:02:13.210 --> 00:02:16.580 magnolias, you know, and we did. like a magnolia 00:02:16.580 --> 00:02:21.520 tartar tan with sweet brick lard, you know. Again, 00:02:21.539 --> 00:02:26.759 but it's a necessity to be that way if I am a 00:02:26.759 --> 00:02:29.879 chef who's, I can't afford to be, you know, like 00:02:29.879 --> 00:02:34.099 making like everything. in certain ways that 00:02:34.099 --> 00:02:36.060 certain restaurants do. So I have to be very 00:02:36.060 --> 00:02:38.379 clever with my ingredients. So realistically, 00:02:38.800 --> 00:02:40.400 again, I will get shunned for this, but it's 00:02:40.400 --> 00:02:43.180 fine. Like I say, I'm not Thai. I don't, you 00:02:43.180 --> 00:02:45.560 know, pretend to cook realistically Thai food. 00:02:45.599 --> 00:02:49.280 I'm inspired by Thai food and Thai seasonings, 00:02:49.280 --> 00:02:52.639 Thai flavors. For me, it's more about the seasoning 00:02:52.639 --> 00:02:57.300 and it's more about texture and elements that 00:02:57.300 --> 00:02:59.860 basically are, you know, like I use lots of... 00:03:00.250 --> 00:03:04.629 you know, like fermented soybean and things like 00:03:04.629 --> 00:03:08.610 that in a lot of my dishes because we, in England, 00:03:08.750 --> 00:03:12.930 there's lots and lots of vegans. So you have 00:03:12.930 --> 00:03:15.189 to, you have to go, right, we have to feed people 00:03:15.189 --> 00:03:16.469 and we have to make sure it's fucking amazing. 00:03:17.229 --> 00:03:20.610 I'm not the guy which is like, fuck off. I'm 00:03:20.610 --> 00:03:22.569 like, no, come in. I want to make sure that. 00:03:23.409 --> 00:03:26.710 this blows your mind. And, you know, I want you 00:03:26.710 --> 00:03:28.770 to almost question it and ask questions and we 00:03:28.770 --> 00:03:31.270 can go through this together. You know, the same 00:03:31.270 --> 00:03:33.050 when I do cooking classes, it's the same. You 00:03:33.050 --> 00:03:35.310 want to share this stuff. You don't want to be 00:03:35.310 --> 00:03:39.110 a gatekeeper, you know. So I feel with Thai cuisine, 00:03:39.189 --> 00:03:43.169 it's all about sour, understanding sour, understanding 00:03:43.169 --> 00:03:45.909 seasoning with fish sauce, you know. And then 00:03:45.909 --> 00:03:48.789 as soon as you break these barriers and you start 00:03:48.789 --> 00:03:51.250 understanding like layers and umami, and again, 00:03:51.639 --> 00:03:54.259 what it takes to make a curry, how to properly 00:03:54.259 --> 00:03:56.639 split coconut and, you know, release the fat, 00:03:56.780 --> 00:04:01.599 and how to basically layer umami. You can go 00:04:01.599 --> 00:04:05.620 fucking wild. Again, that is Thai cuisine to 00:04:05.620 --> 00:04:09.360 me. I use lots and lots of unusual ingredients, 00:04:09.439 --> 00:04:13.319 but I'm a lad in Yorkshire. You can only use 00:04:13.319 --> 00:04:17.040 so much, you know, Thai basil and, you know, 00:04:17.100 --> 00:04:20.360 Vietnamese coriander and so forth before. None 00:04:20.360 --> 00:04:22.079 of it makes any fucking sense because it's coming 00:04:22.079 --> 00:04:24.980 from all over the world and look at what I stand 00:04:24.980 --> 00:04:27.699 for. So I'm like, none of this makes any fucking 00:04:27.699 --> 00:04:30.139 sense. And yeah, there's elements I can use certain 00:04:30.139 --> 00:04:33.000 things, but if I can't get beetle leaf, I'm not 00:04:33.000 --> 00:04:34.639 going to let it blow my brains out. I'm just 00:04:34.639 --> 00:04:37.199 going to use some nasturtium or some radish leaf 00:04:37.199 --> 00:04:40.319 or some beetroot leaf. That is the reality of 00:04:40.319 --> 00:04:43.259 how I cook and why I cook. And now I just blend 00:04:43.259 --> 00:04:46.240 into that. So I feel like with Thai cuisine, 00:04:46.300 --> 00:04:50.730 if you can slowly... start to understand seasonings 00:04:50.730 --> 00:04:53.769 and again intense flavorings that you can be 00:04:53.769 --> 00:04:56.230 really bold with you can you can use it in many 00:04:56.230 --> 00:04:58.350 many ways yeah yeah i think that makes a lot 00:04:58.350 --> 00:05:00.310 of sense here's a great way of approaching it 00:05:00.310 --> 00:05:02.709 because at the end of the day you know like people 00:05:02.709 --> 00:05:08.160 um cooking um you know food from cultures that 00:05:08.160 --> 00:05:10.959 they didn't necessarily grow up in right i feel 00:05:10.959 --> 00:05:13.939 like often it's this like imported cuisine you 00:05:13.939 --> 00:05:17.139 know it's like you say somebody cooks japanese 00:05:17.139 --> 00:05:20.079 food in spain right and they import the bonito 00:05:20.079 --> 00:05:22.600 they import the seaweeds they import the rice 00:05:22.600 --> 00:05:25.649 you know everything And, like, it can be something, 00:05:25.850 --> 00:05:28.069 you know, but, like, what would the people do 00:05:28.069 --> 00:05:29.370 that actually cook? You know, they cook with 00:05:29.370 --> 00:05:32.029 what they have available, you know. And what 00:05:32.029 --> 00:05:34.550 you're describing, you know, to me makes perfect 00:05:34.550 --> 00:05:38.709 sense because it's kind of like when new cuisines 00:05:38.709 --> 00:05:42.449 are created, you know, by people emigrating somewhere, 00:05:42.810 --> 00:05:46.410 right? That's like how the Nikkei cuisine, you 00:05:46.410 --> 00:05:50.540 know, got to exist. is Japanese people suddenly 00:05:50.540 --> 00:05:52.699 being in Peru and being sort of like, okay, well, 00:05:52.759 --> 00:05:55.480 what do we have? And we cook what there is available, 00:05:55.600 --> 00:05:57.620 but with the mindset and the tradition and the 00:05:57.620 --> 00:05:59.839 techniques and the sort of, you know, flavor 00:05:59.839 --> 00:06:01.579 profile that we're used to and that we like. 00:06:02.759 --> 00:06:05.180 Like, for example, you know, a restaurant that 00:06:05.180 --> 00:06:08.519 I really like in London, Koya, you know, is the 00:06:08.519 --> 00:06:12.319 Udon Noodle Bar, right? But they cook beautiful 00:06:12.319 --> 00:06:15.560 food because it's one of the only restaurants 00:06:15.560 --> 00:06:17.839 for me that I've seen in the world that cooks 00:06:17.839 --> 00:06:21.540 actually authentic japanese food without just 00:06:21.540 --> 00:06:24.240 like importing everything just because they take 00:06:24.240 --> 00:06:27.620 the like beautiful produce my originality is 00:06:27.620 --> 00:06:31.660 is the fact that again my my morals and ethics 00:06:31.660 --> 00:06:34.540 you know like that's the starting point you know 00:06:34.540 --> 00:06:37.939 of what i do so it bleeds down it's as simple 00:06:37.939 --> 00:06:41.180 as that you know and that that means you know 00:06:41.180 --> 00:06:44.480 regenerating what you use and how you use it 00:06:44.480 --> 00:06:48.129 again it's not out of you know, out of trend 00:06:48.129 --> 00:06:51.149 or what I do. Again, it's out of necessity of 00:06:51.149 --> 00:06:55.350 being, you know, a restauranteur, which is skin. 00:06:56.269 --> 00:06:57.949 It's as simple as that. And you've got to put 00:06:57.949 --> 00:06:59.769 every single penny you have into it. You know, 00:06:59.889 --> 00:07:02.769 you get, you invest hundreds of thousands of 00:07:02.769 --> 00:07:04.949 pounds over years and years and years when you've 00:07:04.949 --> 00:07:07.829 got no investment into restaurants. And majority 00:07:07.829 --> 00:07:10.129 of leave, you're like me, they all. Let's not 00:07:10.129 --> 00:07:12.470 say fail, but you shit them all, you know? But 00:07:12.470 --> 00:07:15.350 again, that's out of necessity. I believe in, 00:07:15.370 --> 00:07:18.250 I follow Thai culture and Thai cuisine enough 00:07:18.250 --> 00:07:22.790 to respect it that I can do my own thing with 00:07:22.790 --> 00:07:26.029 it. Definitely, you know? There's, you know, 00:07:26.050 --> 00:07:31.290 it's all based around love and knowledge. And 00:07:31.290 --> 00:07:34.329 if it comes from that place, I don't see an issue 00:07:34.329 --> 00:07:37.079 with it. Yeah. Phil, do you recommend podcasts 00:07:37.079 --> 00:07:40.500 to your friends? All the time. The best way of 00:07:40.500 --> 00:07:42.279 showing friends that you care is recommending 00:07:42.279 --> 00:07:45.360 a great podcast to listen to. I agree. If you're 00:07:45.360 --> 00:07:48.000 listening right now, you should show your love 00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:51.060 by recommending our show to all your best friends. 00:07:51.259 --> 00:07:54.439 It will make them happy. It will make us happy. 00:07:54.660 --> 00:07:57.459 PopLock Food Talks. Tell your friends. It will 00:07:57.459 --> 00:08:02.129 make the world a better place. I wanted to get 00:08:02.129 --> 00:08:04.990 a little bit deeper into that, into you doing 00:08:04.990 --> 00:08:07.769 your own thing. What about the condiments you 00:08:07.769 --> 00:08:10.170 do? I assume you, well, I actually saw some videos 00:08:10.170 --> 00:08:12.750 where you're doing your own curries, but what 00:08:12.750 --> 00:08:15.910 about the garums, the fish sauces? Do you also 00:08:15.910 --> 00:08:18.670 do that yourself? How is that processed in your 00:08:18.670 --> 00:08:22.910 case? Or also even like, brother, what is your 00:08:22.910 --> 00:08:29.290 umami sources? Since you're so emphatic on umami 00:08:29.290 --> 00:08:32.110 as a key component, how do you work with that? 00:08:32.289 --> 00:08:34.509 Just go back to the social distortion again, 00:08:34.610 --> 00:08:38.470 which is there's no menu. There is on the night, 00:08:38.549 --> 00:08:42.610 but again, it's a case of not to be pretentious, 00:08:42.610 --> 00:08:46.149 just to be honest. You'll be offended because 00:08:46.149 --> 00:08:48.700 it'll be off. in two days time and it'll be something 00:08:48.700 --> 00:08:52.340 else you know again that mindset and that way 00:08:52.340 --> 00:08:55.580 of cooking and also that that way of like i say 00:08:55.580 --> 00:08:58.919 you are forced into this you know you mentioned 00:08:58.919 --> 00:09:03.179 nam jim earlier i remember the first time i went 00:09:03.179 --> 00:09:06.299 to thailand discovered nam jim and i was like 00:09:06.299 --> 00:09:11.360 fuck game changer so at the time i was running 00:09:11.360 --> 00:09:16.049 a street food van again just doing fucking anything 00:09:16.049 --> 00:09:18.190 and everything, you know, whether it just, you 00:09:18.190 --> 00:09:20.370 know, we were doing bao at the time, Thai bao, 00:09:20.529 --> 00:09:23.649 always doing Thai tacos out of the pan, you know, 00:09:23.649 --> 00:09:28.389 again, but it was always Nam James, jowls and 00:09:28.389 --> 00:09:30.889 things with texture and umami, but also that 00:09:30.889 --> 00:09:33.669 it can sit there, you know, you can do a vat 00:09:33.669 --> 00:09:36.909 of it and it's getting better over time and you 00:09:36.909 --> 00:09:41.149 just learn to flow with these things. So it became 00:09:41.149 --> 00:09:43.669 almost again, an obsession with getting the most 00:09:43.669 --> 00:09:46.669 out of everything. You know, so whether that 00:09:46.669 --> 00:09:50.750 be we import McQueen peppercorn. So again, very 00:09:50.750 --> 00:09:52.590 rare peppercorn from like Northern Thailand, 00:09:52.690 --> 00:09:54.669 Vietnam. When you're there, obviously in abundance, 00:09:54.789 --> 00:09:56.350 it's great. But when you're in England, you have 00:09:56.350 --> 00:09:58.929 to buy a bulk and it's very expensive. So you've 00:09:58.929 --> 00:10:00.809 got big roots and so on attached with it. So 00:10:00.809 --> 00:10:03.970 again, you're forced to make things with these 00:10:03.970 --> 00:10:07.049 products, you know. So that then creates a full 00:10:07.049 --> 00:10:10.269 cocktail list of zero waste and Thai inspired, 00:10:10.350 --> 00:10:13.490 you know. So you're then forced to do clarifications. 00:10:14.519 --> 00:10:18.419 You know, you're then forced to do, you know, 00:10:18.419 --> 00:10:20.960 a tiny groney, you know, and soak all your own 00:10:20.960 --> 00:10:23.460 elements. And before you know it, you've got 00:10:23.460 --> 00:10:26.360 an abundance of things which are just leading 00:10:26.360 --> 00:10:28.200 on to the next, on to the next, on to the next, 00:10:28.220 --> 00:10:30.279 on to the next, you know, and you've almost got 00:10:30.279 --> 00:10:33.000 a mother for everything in your kitchen. That's 00:10:33.000 --> 00:10:35.100 a really good way to look at it. Fish sauces 00:10:35.100 --> 00:10:37.179 and so on, are you making your own or how do 00:10:37.179 --> 00:10:39.340 you work with them? No, no, no, no, not making 00:10:39.340 --> 00:10:41.490 our own fish sauce, no. Again, being involved 00:10:41.490 --> 00:10:44.549 with a few people doing elements, but our main 00:10:44.549 --> 00:10:47.309 thing at the minute, so basically I got obsessed 00:10:47.309 --> 00:10:49.690 with prick larb. Could you like explain the basics 00:10:49.690 --> 00:10:52.309 of what prick larb is to start with that sense? 00:10:52.590 --> 00:10:56.750 Prick larb is a unique seasoning from Northern 00:10:56.750 --> 00:10:59.830 Thailand, which is used key in larb dishes. So 00:10:59.830 --> 00:11:01.909 again, it's very, you know, you'll see it in 00:11:01.909 --> 00:11:04.009 little bags, you know, hanging up on like little... 00:11:04.429 --> 00:11:06.450 little veg stores and so on all around Thailand. 00:11:06.710 --> 00:11:08.669 And again, even that alone got me very obsessed 00:11:08.669 --> 00:11:10.350 that you can only get it in a small little bag. 00:11:10.429 --> 00:11:12.710 And I was like, what's this? You know, what is 00:11:12.710 --> 00:11:14.509 this? Everyone's like holding so dear to them. 00:11:15.009 --> 00:11:19.850 And even that alone obsessed me. So a key ingredient 00:11:19.850 --> 00:11:23.929 is Mekwen peppercorn and chili. So this, you 00:11:23.929 --> 00:11:25.929 know, that heat and you've got that kind of prickly 00:11:25.929 --> 00:11:29.330 Szechuan family. And then your other key ingredients 00:11:29.330 --> 00:11:32.590 are, you have your spices, usually which are 00:11:33.179 --> 00:11:37.600 So like long pepper, you have star anise, Thai 00:11:37.600 --> 00:11:42.960 cardamom, black peppercorn. Again, ranges of 00:11:42.960 --> 00:11:45.519 that earthiness. And then you have fresh, which 00:11:45.519 --> 00:11:49.399 is usually lemongrass, galangal, sand ginger 00:11:49.399 --> 00:11:53.519 shoot usually, and garlic. All roasted to like 00:11:53.519 --> 00:11:56.879 a high content as well. So it's a paste. It's 00:11:56.879 --> 00:12:03.120 a strong condiment paste. No, not a paste. a 00:12:03.120 --> 00:12:07.360 dry, let's call it a season, and a paste. So 00:12:07.360 --> 00:12:11.980 I believe, again, depending on the region, some 00:12:11.980 --> 00:12:14.259 people put fermented fish paste in it as well 00:12:14.259 --> 00:12:16.840 on pound. Some people put rock salt possibly. 00:12:17.440 --> 00:12:21.159 So I put fermented soybean in mine, which, number 00:12:21.159 --> 00:12:23.759 one, keeps it vegan, so it can be used across 00:12:23.759 --> 00:12:26.860 the board, which, again, I find is good at the 00:12:26.860 --> 00:12:30.320 minute to kind of, again, to even just demonstrate 00:12:30.320 --> 00:12:35.899 that. But no, so it's highly roasted and then 00:12:35.899 --> 00:12:38.759 pounded. And then again, so it's kind of like 00:12:38.759 --> 00:12:41.299 a rough kind of texture. But again, obviously 00:12:41.299 --> 00:12:44.320 your oils are released and so forth. So that's 00:12:44.320 --> 00:12:47.519 more of like a natural prickly herb. So where 00:12:47.519 --> 00:12:50.980 the one I make, we will highly like roast everything. 00:12:51.200 --> 00:12:54.960 So again, like onion skins, garlic skins, fucking 00:12:54.960 --> 00:13:00.480 everything, lime leaf, stems, you know, stalks, 00:13:00.480 --> 00:13:04.490 cafe lime. And depending on, you know, the amounts 00:13:04.490 --> 00:13:07.789 and we will separate the amounts for however 00:13:07.789 --> 00:13:10.090 long it takes to, you know, to create the batch 00:13:10.090 --> 00:13:14.289 and then roast individually and then pound everything 00:13:14.289 --> 00:13:16.870 individually and then mix it by hand. So the 00:13:16.870 --> 00:13:19.090 one we do, again, just because it's made out 00:13:19.090 --> 00:13:21.490 of waste and will never probably taste the same 00:13:21.490 --> 00:13:25.029 twice. But again, I find that's something to 00:13:25.029 --> 00:13:28.230 delve into because it gives it more of that, 00:13:28.289 --> 00:13:30.830 I think, authenticity where it is more of a... 00:13:31.569 --> 00:13:34.889 respect towards the culture you know and but 00:13:34.889 --> 00:13:37.870 the reality is it's a it's a high intensity season 00:13:37.870 --> 00:13:42.610 to put into into larb dishes and which adds that 00:13:42.610 --> 00:13:45.549 little extra kick and punch and so forth when 00:13:45.549 --> 00:13:48.529 i create prick lab using wastage it creates a 00:13:48.529 --> 00:13:50.970 mass amount of it so therefore you can be really 00:13:50.970 --> 00:13:53.669 basically heavy -handed In tradition, that almost, 00:13:53.830 --> 00:13:56.629 I believe, seems wrong because of the intensity 00:13:56.629 --> 00:13:58.990 it takes to make it, you know, the time, the 00:13:58.990 --> 00:14:02.250 effort. Whereas using wastage, again, I've just 00:14:02.250 --> 00:14:04.429 ended up being able to use it to such an amount 00:14:04.429 --> 00:14:07.529 where, again, it's created a cuisine. And again, 00:14:07.629 --> 00:14:09.190 I could have called it prick lab, I could have 00:14:09.190 --> 00:14:11.529 called it something else, but it's born from 00:14:11.529 --> 00:14:14.909 that and it's representing that and it's representing 00:14:14.909 --> 00:14:18.789 the cuisine. And again, the love behind that, 00:14:18.950 --> 00:14:20.970 you know, I love the fact it's sold in little 00:14:20.970 --> 00:14:23.360 baggies and it's... You know, everyone's got 00:14:23.360 --> 00:14:25.620 their own little idea about it. You know, that's 00:14:25.620 --> 00:14:29.360 beautiful. I love that stuff. So when I went 00:14:29.360 --> 00:14:31.940 to Thailand, worked with Andy Ricker, again, 00:14:32.019 --> 00:14:33.500 I was obsessed with lab as well. I was like, 00:14:33.539 --> 00:14:35.179 I really want to work with blood. You know, I 00:14:35.179 --> 00:14:37.500 really like the idea of raw and all this sort 00:14:37.500 --> 00:14:39.960 of thing. I find it so intriguing. And again, 00:14:40.039 --> 00:14:42.860 it's buried to the next level. So I really want 00:14:42.860 --> 00:14:45.519 to push my boundaries and understand these things. 00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:51.070 So making labs. discovered Prick Lab. So as soon 00:14:51.070 --> 00:14:52.990 as I came back to England, I was like, we're 00:14:52.990 --> 00:14:54.950 making Prick Lab. This is what we're doing, guys. 00:14:55.190 --> 00:14:57.289 So we're making Prick Lab every day, pestle and 00:14:57.289 --> 00:14:59.450 mortar, da -da -da -da -da. And then you realize, 00:14:59.690 --> 00:15:01.669 fucking hell, this is a lot of work and also 00:15:01.669 --> 00:15:05.970 very, very expensive. So in England, when you're 00:15:05.970 --> 00:15:09.309 using galangal, you know, ginger, you know, lemongrass, 00:15:09.330 --> 00:15:12.009 you know, chilies, all these expensive things 00:15:12.009 --> 00:15:15.309 daily, you know, lime leaf, you know, fresh lime. 00:15:16.389 --> 00:15:19.730 In Thailand, they go in the compost. And I just 00:15:19.730 --> 00:15:22.009 remember when I was there and I was like, this 00:15:22.009 --> 00:15:24.730 is kind of fascinating to me because in the restaurant 00:15:24.730 --> 00:15:28.409 in England, this is a big pile of basically gold. 00:15:29.049 --> 00:15:31.250 So when I got back to England, we were making 00:15:31.250 --> 00:15:33.250 prick lard and I said, actually, we are now going 00:15:33.250 --> 00:15:35.409 to make prick lard out of all our wastage from 00:15:35.409 --> 00:15:38.830 curry pastes, from relishes, you know, all the 00:15:38.830 --> 00:15:40.570 stuff we're doing on a day -to -day basis anyway. 00:15:41.669 --> 00:15:43.909 And then we make prick lard from it. So that 00:15:43.909 --> 00:15:47.230 then opened up it to where we created... a new 00:15:47.230 --> 00:15:50.309 recipe for it so again the traditional ingredients 00:15:50.309 --> 00:15:53.970 are all in it but again it's all scraps so i 00:15:53.970 --> 00:15:55.990 just thought again okay we and we've been doing 00:15:55.990 --> 00:15:57.590 this for the last two years at the restaurant 00:15:57.590 --> 00:15:59.769 you know without you know people come in obviously 00:15:59.769 --> 00:16:01.429 we're talking through it at the counter and you 00:16:01.429 --> 00:16:05.370 know so forth but now i have understood that 00:16:05.370 --> 00:16:09.509 this has created a very unique flavor profile 00:16:09.509 --> 00:16:13.210 i think is the best way to to like label it in 00:16:13.210 --> 00:16:18.679 my cuisine So, again, with being ADHD, you know, 00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:20.840 the top and experimental and, again, very zero 00:16:20.840 --> 00:16:24.440 waste, you end up making prick lab a lot of the 00:16:24.440 --> 00:16:26.779 time. So then you end up, you know, seasoning 00:16:26.779 --> 00:16:29.039 prick lab with dishes, making certain prick labs. 00:16:29.980 --> 00:16:33.720 Then we made a sweet prick lab for sweets, you 00:16:33.720 --> 00:16:36.539 know. So, again, so in Thai cuisine, things like, 00:16:36.539 --> 00:16:38.299 you know, having shallots on desserts and things 00:16:38.299 --> 00:16:42.399 is very, very normal. Oh, really? Shallots on 00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:44.179 desserts? Yeah, yeah. Roasted shallots. Yeah, 00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:46.860 yeah. So it's got that natural sweetness. So 00:16:46.860 --> 00:16:52.000 within that, we take out basically the savory 00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:54.940 ingredients and replace them with a sweeter or 00:16:54.940 --> 00:16:57.879 different umami. So we take out the fish paste 00:16:57.879 --> 00:17:03.860 and we put fermented soybean, also miso, and 00:17:03.860 --> 00:17:06.339 then also some tonka bean. So again, it creates 00:17:06.339 --> 00:17:12.289 this different level. of umami which is again 00:17:12.289 --> 00:17:15.069 just almost again i won't say it's something 00:17:15.069 --> 00:17:18.329 new but it's something new to me which creates 00:17:18.329 --> 00:17:20.390 again a completely different range of dishes 00:17:20.390 --> 00:17:25.349 so you know recently i've been doing um obsession 00:17:25.349 --> 00:17:28.849 with like mole love mexican cuisine very similar 00:17:28.849 --> 00:17:32.250 to thai in that umami field i find so again i 00:17:32.250 --> 00:17:35.559 make a prick lab mole so like a mole negro Very 00:17:35.559 --> 00:17:37.759 traditionally looked at, but again, Prick Lab 00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:40.359 is the key ingredient. And again, I've been showcasing 00:17:40.359 --> 00:17:42.099 this on pop -ups, you know, around the globe 00:17:42.099 --> 00:17:46.500 and so forth to showcase the fact that this is 00:17:46.500 --> 00:17:49.380 my cuisine is, yeah, I can use it in certain 00:17:49.380 --> 00:17:52.500 elements, but you can use this method of basically 00:17:52.500 --> 00:17:56.880 zero waste, layering ingredients to such a high 00:17:56.880 --> 00:18:00.640 extent, especially in restaurants. So Prick Lab 00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:04.829 now, I've created a, basically a... very unique 00:18:04.829 --> 00:18:06.970 version of prickly, which is made out of wastage, 00:18:07.049 --> 00:18:09.329 which I find is, you know, what the world needs 00:18:09.329 --> 00:18:12.490 to be doing in certain ways. And also a sweet 00:18:12.490 --> 00:18:15.450 prickly, which is a kind of new creation, which 00:18:15.450 --> 00:18:18.609 again, we now delve in. So whether it be seasoning, 00:18:18.750 --> 00:18:21.769 you know, certain raw types of, you know, ingredients 00:18:21.769 --> 00:18:23.789 with prickly herbs, whether it be going in desserts, 00:18:24.029 --> 00:18:26.670 into again, Negronis or drinks or clarifications, 00:18:26.710 --> 00:18:29.109 and basically using this full ingredient now 00:18:29.109 --> 00:18:32.640 across the board, which. I'm starting to like 00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:35.059 kind of advertise and showcase through, you know, 00:18:35.059 --> 00:18:38.099 through, through me. Yeah. Phil, how, how, what 00:18:38.099 --> 00:18:41.480 was the spice mixer you did and this pop -up 00:18:41.480 --> 00:18:44.299 we did in Germany for the, for the fried chicken 00:18:44.299 --> 00:18:48.019 sandwich where you make some Mexican chilies, 00:18:48.019 --> 00:18:53.119 but you did like a, it wasn't like an MSG salt 00:18:53.119 --> 00:18:56.839 with, with Mexican chilies or something like 00:18:56.839 --> 00:19:00.140 that. Do you remember how that was? I don't actually 00:19:00.140 --> 00:19:03.980 remember what I put in it. I remember it was 00:19:03.980 --> 00:19:06.980 a big concoction. Sounds like me. Yeah, yeah, 00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:09.700 yeah. Big concoction that we roasted and blended 00:19:09.700 --> 00:19:13.119 in Xander's kitchen. Yeah, that happens to me 00:19:13.119 --> 00:19:15.000 a lot. People ask me, how was that thing that 00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:17.579 you did 10 years ago for Christmas? And it was 00:19:17.579 --> 00:19:20.599 like, I don't have an idea. That's kind of part 00:19:20.599 --> 00:19:23.829 of it as well that I've found now. people were 00:19:23.829 --> 00:19:25.289 coming in the restaurants for years, like, can 00:19:25.289 --> 00:19:27.049 I have some prickly herb? Can I do this? You 00:19:27.049 --> 00:19:29.130 know, we're always giving out and doing this 00:19:29.130 --> 00:19:30.910 and like, you know, and I just thought, you know, 00:19:30.910 --> 00:19:33.109 with closing the restaurant, again, moral decision 00:19:33.109 --> 00:19:37.390 because, you know, it won't be what it should 00:19:37.390 --> 00:19:39.269 be if I kept it open. I'd have to start selling 00:19:39.269 --> 00:19:41.630 shit or, you know, buying bad produce or again, 00:19:41.670 --> 00:19:44.109 getting rid of what you believe in. So this is 00:19:44.109 --> 00:19:46.269 where I've just attached myself to thinking, 00:19:46.390 --> 00:19:49.650 again, and showcase what I do instead of standing 00:19:49.650 --> 00:19:51.700 in the shadows with it, you know. Put yourself 00:19:51.700 --> 00:19:54.099 out there and, you know, and really, you know, 00:19:54.099 --> 00:19:55.779 tell people what you do and how long you've been 00:19:55.779 --> 00:19:57.960 doing it because it's been an obsession for years 00:19:57.960 --> 00:20:02.500 now. So I feel like it is created, like I say, 00:20:02.539 --> 00:20:05.559 a very unique flavor combination and it's got 00:20:05.559 --> 00:20:07.099 a very unique story behind it as well. Like I 00:20:07.099 --> 00:20:09.759 say, it's based on necessity and there's so many 00:20:09.759 --> 00:20:12.599 morals and ethics that drive this kind of culture 00:20:12.599 --> 00:20:14.839 of running a restaurant like mine these days, 00:20:14.859 --> 00:20:16.339 you know, and I've got several friends that do 00:20:16.339 --> 00:20:18.880 it. And you speak to them on a day -to -day basis 00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:21.079 and they're busy and they've got all the right 00:20:21.079 --> 00:20:23.700 things in place and their food's beautiful and 00:20:23.700 --> 00:20:26.839 they're fucking broken. And it's so tough to 00:20:26.839 --> 00:20:31.160 say. So this is my way of trying to continue 00:20:31.160 --> 00:20:34.480 my story through a platform as well, you know, 00:20:34.519 --> 00:20:37.220 and without having bricks and mortar, you know. 00:20:37.259 --> 00:20:40.059 So I do really attach myself to Pericoire, but 00:20:40.059 --> 00:20:43.619 it sounds a little bit obsessive, but I do believe 00:20:43.619 --> 00:20:46.680 that. Yeah, yeah. So you're basically now producing 00:20:46.680 --> 00:20:49.319 Prick Lab with the intention of selling it, yeah? 00:20:50.240 --> 00:20:53.680 Yeah, yeah. So Prick Lab, I've just done a big, 00:20:53.700 --> 00:20:56.819 massive wastage batch, which is down and dirty, 00:20:57.019 --> 00:21:01.960 but great. And I've just finished my first round 00:21:01.960 --> 00:21:05.039 of pop -ups for the year. So first pop -up was 00:21:05.039 --> 00:21:07.799 the last few days, based in York, a friend's 00:21:07.799 --> 00:21:09.819 restaurant, Black Wheat Club, beautiful little 00:21:09.819 --> 00:21:14.029 place. and um yeah tasting menu began all based 00:21:14.029 --> 00:21:17.690 around zero waste prick lab and very experimental 00:21:17.690 --> 00:21:19.809 you know the menu will never be the same twice 00:21:19.809 --> 00:21:22.710 it's always depending on where i'm working what's 00:21:22.710 --> 00:21:26.049 available um and just traveling throughout the 00:21:26.049 --> 00:21:28.869 year basically yeah to do to that yeah yeah amazing 00:21:28.869 --> 00:21:31.569 i would love to try some i will be sending you 00:21:31.569 --> 00:21:34.950 guys you can you can guarantee it um hey i wanted 00:21:34.950 --> 00:21:37.069 to touch on something that you mentioned earlier 00:21:37.069 --> 00:21:40.579 which i think is obviously like um um it's a 00:21:40.579 --> 00:21:43.539 topic that that comes to mind you know when we're 00:21:43.539 --> 00:21:45.579 talking about this and you mentioned something 00:21:45.579 --> 00:21:47.579 earlier you made a comment that was very close 00:21:47.579 --> 00:21:49.880 to like what something that we had discussed 00:21:49.880 --> 00:21:51.700 before and that was like very close to our own 00:21:51.700 --> 00:21:55.039 opinion which is the whole topic of cultural 00:21:55.039 --> 00:21:58.400 appreciation versus cultural appropriation right 00:21:58.400 --> 00:22:02.019 we had this discussion before you know where 00:22:02.019 --> 00:22:04.019 we talked about sort of like okay you know where's 00:22:04.019 --> 00:22:08.549 the line How do we look at things? And I think 00:22:08.549 --> 00:22:11.609 what we kind of ended up saying is that as long 00:22:11.609 --> 00:22:14.190 as it comes from a place of genuine appreciation 00:22:14.190 --> 00:22:20.329 and a place of love and good intention and wanting 00:22:20.329 --> 00:22:22.490 to involve yourself because of excitement and 00:22:22.490 --> 00:22:24.710 passion, it's very clear that you're extremely 00:22:24.710 --> 00:22:28.619 passionate about what you do. And I thought maybe 00:22:28.619 --> 00:22:30.039 you could touch on that a little bit. What are 00:22:30.039 --> 00:22:32.119 your opinions on that? How do you see yourself 00:22:32.119 --> 00:22:36.299 fit into this picture? Honestly, it's like you 00:22:36.299 --> 00:22:40.339 say, it all comes from a place of need and want 00:22:40.339 --> 00:22:43.579 and life and love. You know, it's all, you know, 00:22:43.599 --> 00:22:46.299 music and food. It's kind of the same thing for 00:22:46.299 --> 00:22:48.140 me. You know, it's all kind of a love story. 00:22:49.400 --> 00:22:53.539 And, you know, without this, I don't know what 00:22:53.539 --> 00:22:56.400 I'd do. You know, so again, it's that thing of, 00:22:56.940 --> 00:23:00.380 It's an obsession, but it's an obsession because 00:23:00.380 --> 00:23:04.140 I don't do this for the money. God, you know, 00:23:04.140 --> 00:23:08.240 as you well know. So I keep this tried because 00:23:08.240 --> 00:23:12.279 it's my way of, it's almost my legacy, you know, 00:23:12.319 --> 00:23:15.380 is just being, you know, to try and give back 00:23:15.380 --> 00:23:19.720 in some format, in some way. And I think with 00:23:19.720 --> 00:23:21.900 it starting out just with, again, with going 00:23:21.900 --> 00:23:24.579 back to Hanneman. And my last time in Thailand, 00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:26.680 you know, when I was training there a few years 00:23:26.680 --> 00:23:30.920 ago, that was what I was kind of hiding for many 00:23:30.920 --> 00:23:33.000 years. You know, like I say, the fact that I 00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:35.720 didn't like really do recipes and I wasn't classically 00:23:35.720 --> 00:23:38.599 trained, you know, being in kitchens for me was 00:23:38.599 --> 00:23:40.819 never about that. You know, it was always about 00:23:40.819 --> 00:23:46.299 survival, you know. So this is kind of, I go. 00:23:46.940 --> 00:23:49.559 there to thailand and i go to other people's 00:23:49.559 --> 00:23:51.740 kitchens and i you know i message people online 00:23:51.740 --> 00:23:55.059 in that format you know heart on my sleeve you 00:23:55.059 --> 00:23:58.279 know i'm a i'm an open guy i just want to you 00:23:58.279 --> 00:24:00.519 know spread some love and cook some food you 00:24:00.519 --> 00:24:03.279 know and that's what i always did my restaurants 00:24:03.279 --> 00:24:05.859 you know always did that on my restaurants and 00:24:05.859 --> 00:24:08.539 that's why they're fucking shut it's as simple 00:24:08.539 --> 00:24:10.980 as that you know that's i can keep restaurants 00:24:10.980 --> 00:24:14.119 open that's not a problem but not the restaurants 00:24:14.119 --> 00:24:17.900 i want to run You know, no, no way. You know, 00:24:17.920 --> 00:24:22.640 coming at Thai cuisine even is, like I said, 00:24:22.720 --> 00:24:25.980 I don't, I ain't got a clue. I still don't have 00:24:25.980 --> 00:24:28.900 a clue. But that's what fascinates me. The fact 00:24:28.900 --> 00:24:32.240 that I think I've nailed it and I have not nailed 00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:34.119 it. And I've got to keep going and I've got to 00:24:34.119 --> 00:24:36.720 keep going. And again, that is just born out 00:24:36.720 --> 00:24:39.700 of pure passion, pure respect for the cuisine. 00:24:40.440 --> 00:24:44.660 But also I have to accept who I am. which is, 00:24:44.660 --> 00:24:47.140 you know, I'm not classically trained. You know, 00:24:47.200 --> 00:24:50.599 I'm a natural blagger. You know, I've grown up 00:24:50.599 --> 00:24:53.279 not working in amazing kitchens by any standard, 00:24:53.319 --> 00:24:55.859 but that's what's made me a good chef, you know. 00:24:56.519 --> 00:24:59.900 And again, that love is what drives it, you know. 00:24:59.940 --> 00:25:03.980 And this is, you know, we could go on and on 00:25:03.980 --> 00:25:06.400 and on, and before you know it, I'll be crying 00:25:06.400 --> 00:25:09.920 my eyes out anyway, because that's what this 00:25:09.920 --> 00:25:14.119 industry is like. To keep connected to it after 00:25:14.119 --> 00:25:19.119 opening restaurants almost seems stupid, but 00:25:19.119 --> 00:25:27.000 I got such a love for how I cook food and when 00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:29.920 I'm cooking food and the community aspects of 00:25:29.920 --> 00:25:34.279 what it does and it brings people together. That's 00:25:34.279 --> 00:25:37.500 all I can ever do. Just keep doing that every 00:25:37.500 --> 00:25:41.390 day. It's tough, but... The love I have for food 00:25:41.390 --> 00:25:43.670 is the same love I have for, you know, friends 00:25:43.670 --> 00:25:46.069 and family and so forth. You know, it's a big 00:25:46.069 --> 00:25:49.589 part of who I am, which is, you know, it's just 00:25:49.589 --> 00:25:52.150 the only direction I really have. So I find that 00:25:52.150 --> 00:25:55.730 to really bite onto that and to bite onto a cuisine 00:25:55.730 --> 00:26:01.710 like Thailand and, you know, it's magical. That's 00:26:01.710 --> 00:26:04.150 probably the best way to look at it. Hey Phil, 00:26:04.309 --> 00:26:07.130 have you subscribed to our newsletter yet? We 00:26:07.130 --> 00:26:09.710 have a newsletter? What's a newsletter about, 00:26:09.829 --> 00:26:12.769 Eric? Every month we share one cool thing from 00:26:12.769 --> 00:26:14.950 the world of food and restaurants and occasionally 00:26:14.950 --> 00:26:18.690 a recipe we swore we'd never share. Like your 00:26:18.690 --> 00:26:21.789 secret boiled egg lemon tart recipe. But Eric, 00:26:22.009 --> 00:26:25.490 that was my grandma's secret recipe. Not anymore. 00:26:25.890 --> 00:26:28.910 Subscribe to our newsletter where we unveil all 00:26:28.910 --> 00:26:36.559 of Phil's grandmother's secrets. I wanted to 00:26:36.559 --> 00:26:39.880 ask you about the social distortion, the restaurant 00:26:39.880 --> 00:26:42.640 that was named after a band. Yeah, yeah, man. 00:26:42.799 --> 00:26:48.240 But also, it also implies a little bit that you're... 00:26:48.559 --> 00:26:51.500 translating another culture somehow like it's 00:26:51.500 --> 00:26:54.240 a little bit in the in the name but yeah how 00:26:54.240 --> 00:26:57.819 was the the the arc of that project like opening 00:26:57.819 --> 00:27:00.720 and closing how did it happen how did you operate 00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:05.259 uh how were you with a team how how was the story 00:27:05.259 --> 00:27:09.960 of that place i moved back to my hometown and 00:27:09.960 --> 00:27:12.759 to open the first location of social distortion 00:27:12.759 --> 00:27:16.480 which was about i believe about six months before 00:27:16.480 --> 00:27:22.269 lockdown Best proper restaurant, you know, solo. 00:27:23.289 --> 00:27:28.069 And launch night was lockdown. So, yeah, we went 00:27:28.069 --> 00:27:31.210 to launch, lots of training, you know, fucking 00:27:31.210 --> 00:27:34.150 do everything the right way, you know, thousands 00:27:34.150 --> 00:27:37.650 of investment, just you, you know. And then, 00:27:37.710 --> 00:27:41.789 yeah, bang, lockdown. First night, so I should 00:27:41.789 --> 00:27:45.009 have fucking known. So, yeah, it was appalling. 00:27:45.250 --> 00:27:51.259 Wow. But, but we got through, I say we got fucking 00:27:51.259 --> 00:27:53.740 through it. You don't, that's an absolute lie, 00:27:53.920 --> 00:27:57.059 you know, it was awful. And it probably took 00:27:57.059 --> 00:27:59.779 years off my life, you know, my drinking in that 00:27:59.779 --> 00:28:05.119 was phenomenal. No drugs for a long, long time, 00:28:05.259 --> 00:28:07.519 but the drinking through that period was intense. 00:28:08.980 --> 00:28:13.000 But yeah, so that was a team, small team, you 00:28:13.000 --> 00:28:16.460 know, restaurant was about a mid -Eve. 40 50 00:28:16.460 --> 00:28:21.299 covers but again just the dream was hometown 00:28:21.299 --> 00:28:25.960 and before you knew it you know your landlord's 00:28:25.960 --> 00:28:28.519 an arsehole he's putting your rent up in covid 00:28:28.519 --> 00:28:33.299 um and it's just not doable and all the love 00:28:33.299 --> 00:28:35.480 you can pour into it you need to be really pouring 00:28:35.480 --> 00:28:38.640 into yourself and not into food and your community 00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:42.440 and everything else because So that was a tough 00:28:42.440 --> 00:28:44.660 one, the first run. But that was, I think we 00:28:44.660 --> 00:28:47.799 were there for two years to pass it all, made 00:28:47.799 --> 00:28:51.039 it through. And then I shut that location down 00:28:51.039 --> 00:28:53.039 because I was probably going to blow my brains 00:28:53.039 --> 00:28:58.059 out. And I took a year off. I think I went back 00:28:58.059 --> 00:29:03.400 to Thailand. And then I did, again, very, very 00:29:03.400 --> 00:29:06.359 me, but I took over an abandoned warehouse and 00:29:06.359 --> 00:29:10.420 we did the winter. in an abandoned warehouse, 00:29:10.759 --> 00:29:13.759 which is good. But again, all Thai, took the 00:29:13.759 --> 00:29:16.359 Gosney in, got a few bands on and stuff, and 00:29:16.359 --> 00:29:19.319 it was fucking great. And then opened the second 00:29:19.319 --> 00:29:22.619 location of Social Discortion after, again, the 00:29:22.619 --> 00:29:27.200 usual lots of investment, lots of time, lots 00:29:27.200 --> 00:29:30.319 of effort, again, only myself and friends and 00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:33.880 obviously in bits and bobs. Yeah, so rebuilt 00:29:33.880 --> 00:29:37.299 that in the perfect vein, in the perfect idea, 00:29:37.460 --> 00:29:40.680 which was... Open kitchen, always, you know, 00:29:40.680 --> 00:29:44.279 no hiding, counter, very in your face, you know, 00:29:44.299 --> 00:29:48.720 lots of fire cooking, which was great. Very busy, 00:29:48.859 --> 00:29:52.759 you know, tasting menu on a weekend and small 00:29:52.759 --> 00:29:55.799 plates. We also used to do like a very experimental 00:29:55.799 --> 00:29:59.299 like Sunday roast, which sounds odd, but basically 00:29:59.299 --> 00:30:02.240 just a fucking great roast, high in umami. Again, 00:30:02.319 --> 00:30:05.500 lots of ferments, lots of heavy seasons. So it 00:30:05.500 --> 00:30:08.309 was great, but just not sustainable. You know, 00:30:08.369 --> 00:30:14.470 again, bad landlords, you know, a city which 00:30:14.470 --> 00:30:17.630 isn't ready for it. You know, just the list is 00:30:17.630 --> 00:30:20.410 endless, you know. Business rates, fucking, you 00:30:20.410 --> 00:30:22.210 know, wages are going up, you know, national 00:30:22.210 --> 00:30:25.269 insurance, you know. Before you know it, it's 00:30:25.269 --> 00:30:28.329 just a never -ending cycle of this is not doable, 00:30:28.470 --> 00:30:31.890 you know. And you realize, again, all these restaurants 00:30:31.890 --> 00:30:35.089 you love and you hold dear, they've got millions 00:30:35.089 --> 00:30:37.900 and millions of investment. It's a super difficult 00:30:37.900 --> 00:30:42.680 business. Yeah. Like I think nine out of 10 openings. 00:30:43.079 --> 00:30:47.440 I'm surprised I've done so, so well, you know, 00:30:47.440 --> 00:30:49.359 it's, but I could have kept social distortion 00:30:49.359 --> 00:30:51.980 open. Don't get me wrong. It was, again, I won't 00:30:51.980 --> 00:30:53.940 go into it because I'll end up naming names. 00:30:55.059 --> 00:30:59.900 But, you know, the moral and the ethical choice 00:30:59.900 --> 00:31:02.900 was the right choice, which was I can stay open 00:31:02.900 --> 00:31:06.549 and lose my principles. everything happens around 00:31:06.549 --> 00:31:10.089 me or I can, like I said, there's a fucking reason 00:31:10.089 --> 00:31:12.049 it's called the social distortion. No, it's, 00:31:12.049 --> 00:31:15.509 it's led off, you know, love, respect and morals 00:31:15.509 --> 00:31:17.690 and ethics, you know, and again, it's like, just 00:31:17.690 --> 00:31:21.210 shut it. So again, another God knows how many 00:31:21.210 --> 00:31:23.430 thousands of pounds investment down the pan, 00:31:23.569 --> 00:31:26.990 another big storage unit full of fucking catering 00:31:26.990 --> 00:31:31.410 stuff where you just think, but move on, you 00:31:31.410 --> 00:31:35.049 know, it's, I'm currently, in fact, in a few, 00:31:35.579 --> 00:31:39.039 End of next week, a year sober. So that's got 00:31:39.039 --> 00:31:42.039 to just continue. And I won't be sober if I'm 00:31:42.039 --> 00:31:45.779 running restaurants. Not that we're in here. 00:31:46.079 --> 00:31:50.279 Maybe one day, you never know. But I don't enjoy 00:31:50.279 --> 00:31:53.519 running restaurants. Fucking awful. I enjoy people 00:31:53.519 --> 00:31:57.160 and community and food and love and passion and 00:31:57.160 --> 00:32:00.460 all that stuff and music. Running a restaurant 00:32:00.460 --> 00:32:03.920 as a chef and as an owner. and you have morals 00:32:03.920 --> 00:32:05.880 and ethics attached to you, fucking hell, you 00:32:05.880 --> 00:32:07.599 might as well stop now if you've got no money. 00:32:07.940 --> 00:32:11.619 And that's just the facts of it. But there's 00:32:11.619 --> 00:32:14.440 more to that than running a restaurant. And the 00:32:14.440 --> 00:32:18.720 social distortion has created, like I say, I'm 00:32:18.720 --> 00:32:20.759 working my hardest to get rid of the branding 00:32:20.759 --> 00:32:23.200 of social distortion because, again, it's a name. 00:32:23.559 --> 00:32:27.160 For me, it's about myself and my... The culture 00:32:27.160 --> 00:32:30.059 and the stories I have and, you know, the people 00:32:30.059 --> 00:32:32.000 I've met and the connections I've made, that's 00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:35.920 a social distortion, you know. But it had to 00:32:35.920 --> 00:32:39.680 close because it's an honest place run by honest 00:32:39.680 --> 00:32:43.039 people, you know, respecting honest cuisine and, 00:32:43.140 --> 00:32:47.259 you know, typically, you know, trying to... I 00:32:47.259 --> 00:32:49.819 think the main goal for me with running a restaurant 00:32:49.819 --> 00:32:56.140 is trying to induce nostalgia. And that has just 00:32:56.140 --> 00:32:59.200 always been a big key for me. So now that is 00:32:59.200 --> 00:33:02.200 kind of my hunt, some way of how to connect with 00:33:02.200 --> 00:33:04.900 nostalgia and food and connection with people. 00:33:05.799 --> 00:33:09.019 And whatever that is and how I do it, who knows? 00:33:09.200 --> 00:33:11.819 But that is the aim, which has always been the 00:33:11.819 --> 00:33:15.180 aim. So, yeah. After talking about a couple of 00:33:15.180 --> 00:33:17.700 more serious things, I would love to know, you 00:33:17.700 --> 00:33:22.740 know, if you go to your ideal Thai restaurant, 00:33:22.900 --> 00:33:26.329 right? In your mind, Idea Tile Restaurant, what 00:33:26.329 --> 00:33:28.609 would your order look like? What would your menu 00:33:28.609 --> 00:33:32.269 look like? Always, again, I want to hit kind 00:33:32.269 --> 00:33:36.410 of all elements. So always, always curry. There's 00:33:36.410 --> 00:33:42.470 got to be curry somewhere. But for me, I'm obsessed 00:33:42.470 --> 00:33:46.240 with that. That very, again, that very different 00:33:46.240 --> 00:33:49.380 style of cooking. So, you know, I really do enjoy 00:33:49.380 --> 00:33:52.200 like a sour curry or a white curry or something 00:33:52.200 --> 00:33:57.640 very unique, you know. But always a curry, always 00:33:57.640 --> 00:34:01.259 a relish. And again, some kind of like, I remember 00:34:01.259 --> 00:34:05.059 at Hanneman's, the first proper experience I 00:34:05.059 --> 00:34:08.000 had in making like an actual traditional relish, 00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:09.860 which is a very similar platform as making a 00:34:09.860 --> 00:34:11.860 curry paste. But again, seasoned differently, 00:34:12.019 --> 00:34:15.679 layered differently. Same idea, same principles. 00:34:16.420 --> 00:34:19.380 And a lime leaf relish you'd think could just 00:34:19.380 --> 00:34:23.380 be, it's fascinating, again, how you can bring 00:34:23.380 --> 00:34:26.000 lime leaf out of something, again, with like 00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:28.780 white fish or so forth is incredible. So always 00:34:28.780 --> 00:34:32.260 a relish, always larb, man. Larb is just where 00:34:32.260 --> 00:34:34.539 it's at. I could eat a table of larb because 00:34:34.539 --> 00:34:36.400 there's so many different variations. You know, 00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:39.960 you can get off the plane in Bangkok and in 10 00:34:39.960 --> 00:34:42.820 minutes you can have a... Big watery bowl of 00:34:42.820 --> 00:34:44.480 lard, which is, you know, very like, you know, 00:34:44.500 --> 00:34:47.440 maybe like even like sometimes quite southern 00:34:47.440 --> 00:34:49.800 and quite, you know, touristy, but it's fucking 00:34:49.800 --> 00:34:52.460 amazing every time. Lots of lime leaf, you know, 00:34:52.519 --> 00:34:55.380 toasted rice powder. Again, another amazing ingredient, 00:34:55.440 --> 00:34:58.820 which I was cooking, you know, Thai food for 00:34:58.820 --> 00:35:00.960 years. And then I discovered toasted rice powder 00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:03.860 and was like, this is phenomenal. How does this 00:35:03.860 --> 00:35:07.960 have such texture? And now I'm back. Always some 00:35:07.960 --> 00:35:11.400 kind of nam dok, so like a basically very bulky 00:35:11.400 --> 00:35:15.460 kind of barbecued kind of meat or something with 00:35:15.460 --> 00:35:18.539 lots and lots of fresh herbs is the way for me, 00:35:18.599 --> 00:35:22.500 man. Yeah. And mango sticky rice, man. Mango 00:35:22.500 --> 00:35:24.920 sticky rice in the right place. In the right 00:35:24.920 --> 00:35:27.960 place. No failset. You know, with mung bean and 00:35:27.960 --> 00:35:33.119 so forth. But yeah. But again, that's in my... 00:35:33.119 --> 00:35:36.860 That is almost an answer again where like... 00:35:37.539 --> 00:35:39.860 it's in my head is in like in a Thai restaurant 00:35:39.860 --> 00:35:44.139 in in my Thai restaurants and so forth who knows 00:35:44.139 --> 00:35:46.519 I think that's and that's the good thing you 00:35:46.519 --> 00:35:48.440 know I wouldn't know what next week's menu would 00:35:48.440 --> 00:35:52.739 be realistically I think if I if I would open 00:35:52.739 --> 00:35:57.000 a restaurant it would probably be similar like 00:35:57.000 --> 00:35:59.480 if I could do whatever I want I would you know 00:35:59.480 --> 00:36:02.219 like cook with whatever I have and just freestyle 00:36:02.219 --> 00:36:07.219 it every day on and on yeah No offense, but fuck 00:36:07.219 --> 00:36:09.360 people. I cook for me. If you want to get on 00:36:09.360 --> 00:36:10.940 board and you want to eat my food, fucking great. 00:36:11.179 --> 00:36:12.980 I'll tell stories with you all night. We'll have 00:36:12.980 --> 00:36:14.980 a fucking great time. If you don't like it, I 00:36:14.980 --> 00:36:19.340 don't fucking care. I literally don't care. I 00:36:19.340 --> 00:36:23.179 literally cook food for me and whoever wants 00:36:23.179 --> 00:36:26.820 to get involved. It's as simple as that. People 00:36:26.820 --> 00:36:28.420 used to ask to turn the music down at the restaurant. 00:36:28.519 --> 00:36:30.480 I'd be like, go fuck yourself. It's not happening. 00:36:31.139 --> 00:36:34.460 So I had a similar question. You have to plan. 00:36:35.119 --> 00:36:39.119 a trip to Thailand, what would be your route? 00:36:39.280 --> 00:36:43.679 Where would you go and what would you eat? So 00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:47.539 realistically, man, Bangkok is just, you know, 00:36:47.579 --> 00:36:50.380 you can discover something every time you're 00:36:50.380 --> 00:36:53.340 there. No matter how long, how many times you've 00:36:53.340 --> 00:36:55.380 been to Bangkok, how many times, if you think 00:36:55.380 --> 00:36:58.780 you know an area, I just think, man, you can 00:36:58.780 --> 00:37:03.130 get lost in that place every time. Bangkok for 00:37:03.130 --> 00:37:05.289 me, I kind of always like to try and like dip 00:37:05.289 --> 00:37:07.590 in and dip out. You know, I always spend like 00:37:07.590 --> 00:37:10.309 a few days, maybe disappear for a while, come 00:37:10.309 --> 00:37:12.530 back to Bangkok for a few days because it's kind 00:37:12.530 --> 00:37:15.590 of, you know, you can get a bit overwhelmed as 00:37:15.590 --> 00:37:21.030 well. But again, like, you know, I think for 00:37:21.030 --> 00:37:25.369 me, the north is just, the north of Thailand, 00:37:25.449 --> 00:37:29.230 again, there's something about it where, maybe 00:37:29.230 --> 00:37:31.130 again because of less tourists and so forth, 00:37:31.210 --> 00:37:33.840 but... When you're bordering on the border of, 00:37:33.840 --> 00:37:35.619 like, Chiang Mai, again, and, like, Doi Saket 00:37:35.619 --> 00:37:38.760 and places, and, like, Chiang Rai, and, like, 00:37:38.780 --> 00:37:41.920 you know, there's something about where, again, 00:37:41.980 --> 00:37:45.659 where things like Prick Lab change every 20 miles, 00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:50.059 you know, and things just, again, naturally become 00:37:50.059 --> 00:37:53.300 a little bit more beautiful, and the food just 00:37:53.300 --> 00:37:56.199 gets, again, the labs get more spicy. The further 00:37:56.199 --> 00:37:59.440 you go, the more fucking wild it is, the more 00:37:59.440 --> 00:38:03.099 deeper it is. And the more the umami just smacks 00:38:03.099 --> 00:38:04.699 you and there's more, there's something else 00:38:04.699 --> 00:38:08.699 to just think, how has this happened? I've missed 00:38:08.699 --> 00:38:10.320 something here. Every time I go back to Northern 00:38:10.320 --> 00:38:13.300 Thailand, I'm like, fuck, I've missed something. 00:38:14.199 --> 00:38:16.300 Because there's something I'm like, I thought 00:38:16.300 --> 00:38:20.780 I had it, you know, and I'm missing it. So it's 00:38:20.780 --> 00:38:22.719 very easy to miss that, I think, in the South. 00:38:23.380 --> 00:38:25.219 Because again, it's, you know, it's very, it's 00:38:25.219 --> 00:38:27.280 a little bit more busy air and it's a bit fiery 00:38:27.280 --> 00:38:28.940 air again. So you can miss a little bit more. 00:38:29.599 --> 00:38:31.590 Whereas... I think there's a lot more to be said 00:38:31.590 --> 00:38:34.090 about Northern Thai cuisine, which can be, you 00:38:34.090 --> 00:38:36.469 know, when you're bordering like Isan and like, 00:38:36.469 --> 00:38:39.690 and Lao, them cuisines, like again, they get 00:38:39.690 --> 00:38:43.429 so, where even just a peppercorn can change the 00:38:43.429 --> 00:38:47.469 game. And again, that is, you know, I was obsessed 00:38:47.469 --> 00:38:49.289 with McQuem for years where again, it went in 00:38:49.289 --> 00:38:51.329 everything, you know, again, we were doing, like 00:38:51.329 --> 00:38:53.309 say, you know, with Negroni, you know, you'd 00:38:53.309 --> 00:38:56.269 have a sour, you know, and everything would be 00:38:56.269 --> 00:38:58.989 used because you'd have an abundance of it. But 00:38:58.989 --> 00:39:01.530 it's, Again, that was that I remember when I 00:39:01.530 --> 00:39:03.349 discovered something, I was like, what is that 00:39:03.349 --> 00:39:05.889 flavor? And then I found that. And then I found 00:39:05.889 --> 00:39:08.949 that. And then you bring the dots. So I think 00:39:08.949 --> 00:39:11.389 always the Thailand, man, would just be the North, 00:39:11.469 --> 00:39:13.269 the North, the North, the North, the North. I 00:39:13.269 --> 00:39:17.409 just find it just so, just again, like every 00:39:17.409 --> 00:39:19.710 time I'm there, I feel like it's my first time 00:39:19.710 --> 00:39:24.690 there. 100%. Amazing. But could you maybe for 00:39:24.690 --> 00:39:27.500 people who... I'm not familiar. Describe what 00:39:27.500 --> 00:39:31.400 larb is, the concept of larb. So larb means to 00:39:31.400 --> 00:39:36.820 chop, I believe, anyway. And again, so larb, 00:39:36.880 --> 00:39:40.000 I think, again, if you, again, try a classic 00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:42.559 kind of like a chicken larb or something very, 00:39:42.599 --> 00:39:45.300 you know, very like staple in like Chiang Mai 00:39:45.300 --> 00:39:47.480 or somewhere, you can, there's very, obviously, 00:39:47.500 --> 00:39:49.260 many different variations of things. But again, 00:39:49.380 --> 00:39:53.239 it's about how they use certain minced meats 00:39:53.239 --> 00:39:56.760 and so forth and what fried. Very simply, but 00:39:56.760 --> 00:39:59.360 then how they're seasoned to such a level where, 00:39:59.460 --> 00:40:03.559 you know, you can have sour, sweet, salty, all 00:40:03.559 --> 00:40:06.820 in one dish, and there's not much of the dish. 00:40:07.179 --> 00:40:08.780 You know, you can be like, oh, this is just a 00:40:08.780 --> 00:40:10.579 little plate of mince with a bit of, you know, 00:40:10.619 --> 00:40:13.360 surf off and a bit of dressing. But then it's, 00:40:13.360 --> 00:40:15.840 again, you can bring in fresh herbs, textures, 00:40:16.019 --> 00:40:19.900 so puffed pork skin, things like this, toasted 00:40:19.900 --> 00:40:24.000 rice powder, all of these elements and prickle 00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:29.750 herb. create this kind of one mouth wonder where 00:40:29.750 --> 00:40:32.329 this is where I think the world of salad gets 00:40:32.329 --> 00:40:34.909 lost sometimes. You know, salads are incredible 00:40:34.909 --> 00:40:38.050 things, man. Dressings and salads and leaves 00:40:38.050 --> 00:40:43.769 and fresh herbs. Again, you can go so far with 00:40:43.769 --> 00:40:46.510 these things. And larb is a dish where, again, 00:40:46.530 --> 00:40:48.829 you can kind of create your own flavor with every 00:40:48.829 --> 00:40:50.949 bite. So whether it's with this herb, with this 00:40:50.949 --> 00:40:53.960 herb, with this, with this. But you can go from 00:40:53.960 --> 00:40:57.039 classic larb, chopped, very simple, again, wok 00:40:57.039 --> 00:41:00.119 fried, to raw. Again, you've got lots of offal 00:41:00.119 --> 00:41:02.539 in larb. So again, you'll usually have a bit 00:41:02.539 --> 00:41:05.199 of offal here and there, but it's more about 00:41:05.199 --> 00:41:10.000 having a very high intensity of seasonings. And 00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:12.619 again, and sorry, my camera's a bit wobbly, don't 00:41:12.619 --> 00:41:16.599 worry. High intensity of seasonings, and again, 00:41:16.619 --> 00:41:19.400 lots of extras, lots of herbs, lots of textures. 00:41:20.280 --> 00:41:22.940 um but there again they can go wild you know 00:41:22.940 --> 00:41:25.639 when you go deep deep into the north of thailand 00:41:25.639 --> 00:41:28.239 then you've got like you know raw buffalo you 00:41:28.239 --> 00:41:31.260 know you know you're using bile so you're using 00:41:31.260 --> 00:41:33.699 a lot of bile in you know the further you go 00:41:33.699 --> 00:41:37.559 to get that sour tartness so it can get fucking 00:41:37.559 --> 00:41:42.059 wild and it can be very understood you know it's 00:41:42.059 --> 00:41:47.500 a it's a world of difference yeah amazing huh 00:41:48.460 --> 00:41:52.420 um is there anything that that's um that is important 00:41:52.420 --> 00:41:54.840 for you to say like um stay anything else you 00:41:54.840 --> 00:41:57.579 want to add that you feel like no man really 00:41:57.579 --> 00:42:02.139 just again i'm just a just a humble guy man just 00:42:02.139 --> 00:42:05.519 trying to not have any ego and just trying to 00:42:05.519 --> 00:42:08.840 just somehow maneuver myself through through 00:42:08.840 --> 00:42:11.320 this world bro you know and just trying to find 00:42:11.320 --> 00:42:13.980 my way to fit in and to give back and thai food 00:42:13.980 --> 00:42:17.360 is my obsession my love It's what I've done for 00:42:17.360 --> 00:42:20.780 so long now. And for me to now showcase what 00:42:20.780 --> 00:42:24.159 I do with Zero Waste, I find is, like I say, 00:42:24.239 --> 00:42:27.840 it's not a cool point. It's a necessity. I've 00:42:27.840 --> 00:42:30.280 run a restaurant for so many years now out of 00:42:30.280 --> 00:42:34.280 this that now I feel for me to hide that would 00:42:34.280 --> 00:42:37.820 be silly. So again, showcasing what I do within 00:42:37.820 --> 00:42:40.840 that realm has created, I feel, like a unique 00:42:40.840 --> 00:42:43.420 flavoring and a unique kind of concept and story. 00:42:43.639 --> 00:42:45.909 So yeah, man, I'm just... All I want to do is 00:42:45.909 --> 00:42:47.489 keep doing it, man. So I just keep plugging, 00:42:47.670 --> 00:42:50.849 keep, you know, there'll be plenty of chefs out 00:42:50.849 --> 00:42:53.150 there getting messages from me and I'm sure I'm 00:42:53.150 --> 00:42:55.110 annoying them right now. So yeah, that's, that's 00:42:55.110 --> 00:42:57.110 all it is, man. Yeah. Yeah. I'll be cooking all 00:42:57.110 --> 00:42:58.909 over this year though, man. Yeah. Lots of zero 00:42:58.909 --> 00:43:02.070 waste, um, prick lab projects and stuff. So yeah, 00:43:02.110 --> 00:43:04.329 that's it, man. Really? Yeah. Amazing. Thank 00:43:04.329 --> 00:43:06.489 you, Mark. Thank you so much for joining us, 00:43:06.530 --> 00:43:06.670 Mark.