Hi everyone, welcome to Pot Luck Food Talks, the
show where we talk food and kitchens from a cook's
point of view. We're recording from a place where
the burners are loud, the pans are hot, and someone
is quietly arguing about whether the eggs went
in too early. My name is Eric Northman, and I'm
here with Philip I, ruler of Habsburg. Neither
of us is qualified to be here, though between
us, we've broken more eggs than we can count.
Today we're talking about the most deceptively
simple ingredient in the kitchen, the one that
lifts your cakes, thickens your sauces, binds
your forces, clarifies your broth, and punishes
you the moment you look away. Eggs. White, yolk,
foam, custard. A fragile little machine that
decides whether dinner becomes silk or rubber.
but first amazing intro eggs let's we already
had an episode about eggs but but i i wanted
to go a little bit deeper into some of the mechanics
of it you know because an egg is just not like
like an ingredient. There's a lot of things going
on there. You have the white, the yolk, you have
even the shell that is a completely different
thing. So you have three systems forced into
one shell. So if we talk about whites, they behave
one way. They want to become structure, become
a foam. The yolks have another. It wants to smooth
things. It wants to emulsify. When you cook with
both, you're balancing two different intentions,
two cooking times. Most mistakes happen when
you forget that and treat it like a single thing.
So what can you say about that, my man, Phil?
Yeah, I mean, I totally agree. Eggs are such
a unique thing. Like in the cooking world, you
know, there are a couple of things, I think eggs,
you know, things like potatoes, wheat, you know,
also, but like there's infinite ways of cooking
in an egg. I would also say that it's something
that you never completely figure out, you know,
like you spend. 20 years cooking and then suddenly
you learn or understand something new about eggs
or you get like a little hack or a little something
you didn't know before. Let's go into the whites.
I think this is like a very common thing that
happens in kitchens that as soon as you have
like a recipe where you use yolks, then suddenly
you start to producing a lot of whites and most
of the times you don't know what to do with them
and you have like the fridge full of Tupperwares
with whites. Do you have like a good way to get
rid of them? Because even like for staff meal,
it's like, well, yeah, I'm going to do like a
frittata with egg whites. You know, it's not
so sexy. Yeah, that's true. Unless you're like
a health nut, you know, I mean, like just pure
egg whites are not super attractive. Man, I mean,
pure egg whites is rough. You know, there's only
so and so much fucking, like, meringue that you
can make. Or, like, you know, burned meringue
tarts or, like, whatever. Lemon pies. Île Flottant.
How do you feel about an Île Flottant? To be
honest, like, all these things with egg whites,
I don't like none of them. Maybe a turron. That's
something I like. But, you know, marshmallows,
souffles. il flottant, like this dry merengues.
I hate all that shit. Really? Like it's too sweet
or what? Yeah, I don't know. It's something that
I crave or anything, but I would say the turrón
is something I like very much. Probably because
of the almonds and yeah, also of the crackiness
of it, you know, like crack. That's something
I like about it. What about you? I have to say,
I would agree with you. There's a lot of meringue.
I'm kind of like, meh, I don't know. It always
needs to be with something sour. Otherwise, it's
just too sweet for me. And depending on how you
make the meringue, the whole raw white egg is
a bit... If I eat too much of it, I'm like, bleh.
But a souffle, on the other hand, I think souffle
is a really underrated... dish and you don't
really when was the last time you went to a restaurant
they had a souffle on the menu yeah like i don't
even remember yeah this is like nobody does it
anymore it's kind of old -fashioned i guess i
like in very in very hardcore classic french
restaurants and like you know like fine dining
level you you will find it every every once in
a while for sure like like it's something that
that it's never it's never old you know like
you will always see somebody doing it I think
as a play has this certain mystery about it,
you know, it's like, it's like you say, it's
like very classic. So you won't find it in like
modern kitchens necessarily, but it's also not
like classic enough so that you would find it.
And it's too difficult to make so that you wouldn't
find it in like a bistro or like a rustic French
kitchen. So it fits this like really small niche,
but there's something about it. I think that
it's like, It's technical, but it's not like
finicky technical where you're like, oh, you
have to do this. You have to use this powder
and blah. It's very basic, but still there's
like technique to it. It's really easy to fuck
up. It's very technical. It's very technical,
but at the same time, it's easy, but you have
to follow the rules and follow the steps. And
yeah, and like most of the time, the safest way
is doing it a la minute, you know, like doing
it by order. Oh, you have to. Yeah, exactly.
Like the max that you can do is have some, like
a few ones that will be there for max 20 minutes
waiting, and then you throw it to the oven. But
not more than that. You can't do more than that,
you know? Yeah, for sure. But I think like if
you get it right, if you get it really right,
then a souffle is a really wonderful dish. And
it's so versatile. You know, like the thing of
kind of like, oh, it's too eggy. Sometimes the
soufflés, they have this like scrambled egg texture
inside. That's all horrible. Nobody wants that,
you know, but if you get it right, it's such
a beautiful dish. I tried to get into it like
a year and a half ago because I've never, I did
soufflés in my apprenticeship, but apart from
that, I never worked in a restaurant because
it was such an old -fashioned thing. I looked
into a recipe by Adam Byatt, right? I am a huge
fan of. I probably mentioned him once or twice
already. And he's got a souffle recipe. Because
normally you make like a base, right? That you
fold your egg whites in. The base is usually
made like a choux pastry almost, right? But what
he does is he takes rice and he makes rice pudding.
So brown grain rice, milk, vanilla, cinnamon.
Bakes it, right? Until you have rice pudding.
Until the rice is really soft. He takes all of
that stuff and just mixes it in a Thermomix,
everything together. You have this very starchy,
fine mixture that you then cool down. Ah, and
that's your base. And that's your base. So no
flour, but the starch from the rice is the one
that gives you the structure. And it's so nice.
It works so well. It's super solid. And at the
same time, you have this beautiful rice flavor.
It's amazing. Well, for me, a proper souffle,
a proper, proper souffle, there is no flour at
all and no starches, no cornstarch, no flour.
It's just like a base that could be different
things and egg white, you know? Yeah, for me,
corn flour or flour is a cheat code. You know,
like it's just to make it easier. It's just to
give it structure. But for me, it shouldn't have.
And I would say like the really classic recipes
are like that. Like I couldn't be 100 % sure
of that, but that's, I would say that, yeah.
Yeah, I mean, with cornstarch, I would agree,
you know, like cornstarch, potato starch. That's
like, I remember one time in Margaux where we
worked together, we were doing this white chocolate
and candied olive souffle. It was terrible. I
hated that thing. I also, I mean, like, I hated
the flavor pairing because it was white chocolate
and lavender. Have you said it in English? Lavender.
Lavender. Lavender. You know, like, dude, first
of all, that's disgusting. Yeah. Honestly. That's
really a bad start. And then it had this caramelized
black olive powder, which I think that can be
pretty cool for desserts, for example, with strawberries.
For sure. That's super cool. Yes. But not there.
For sure not there. No, man. But these soufflés,
we had to bake them, then unmold them and serve
them upside down. I remember as we were going...
we were just like increasing the amount of cornstarch
in the recipe just like more and more and more
it's like five grams more five grams more until
they were just like rock solid they would never
collapse and then at some point the chef just
like took the plates back and he like took a
souffle just like smashed it against the wall
he was like what the fuck is this shit no but
it's interesting what you said you know that
like there is this that's something that i remember
we did a lot at that pastry station that was
like modifying recipes. I mean, in this case,
it was just to, you know, add some starch to
save our asses and be safe in service. But there
were other cases where I think like there were
pretty nice results or things that we would create
new. Like there was not like an R &D department
in that restaurant. So like we would be on the
go and like, okay, this recipe, let's modify
the formulation a little bit, make some adjustments.
I saw this book recently from José Andrés, which
is called Change the Recipe. because you can't
change the world without breaking some eggs.
It's like a super short autobiographical book
where he says a lot of things and stories, funny
stories about his different businesses and everything.
But that mindset of changing a recipe and adapting
it, I think that's a skill that a chef needs
to understand how to do it. I mean, mainly because
if you're taking a cookbook that was written
in San Francisco and you're cooking in Germany,
the produce will be different. There will be
atmospherical conditions that are different as
well. And so it's not like a one -to -one thing.
And this is something that you learn really well
when I've done some consultancy projects for
food industry where you know you... First create
like a prototype, a little recipe in a culinary
lab, and then that goes to a large factory and
gets scaled up. That's where you learn that at
that scaling up, it's not do the same recipe
times 100 and it will work the same. Not at all.
Like all their rules change once you start to
scale things up. Oh, really? Absolutely. 100%.
Yeah. This is like a basic. basic rule about
industrialization and scaling up. Yeah. How does
it change? I mean, like, what changes? I mean,
like, first of all, the machinery will change.
So you need to adapt into those things. But also,
like, the ratios. And sometimes you will need
some, to add some emulsifier or something just
to make the things behave in the same way they
behave at small scale and larger scale. But at
the end, like I never participated in the scaling
up process, but that's like a rule that there's
usually a technician in the factory where that
will work and it will take your small scale recipe
and scale it up. And then there will be tastings.
You know, you will compare the first prototype
with the ones that were already done with the
big machinery and the conditions that a factory
has. That's very interesting, yeah. Yeah, yeah,
yeah. So going back to the eggs. So it's interesting
because inside an egg, there's basically like
a civil war, you know? Like there are two things
happening at once. The white needs more heat
to feel cooked, and the yolk needs less to stay
soft and creamy. And you see this when you throw
an egg to a pan. You know, like you want the
white to coagulate, but you want the yolk to
stay runny. And that's the whole art of making
like a super nice fried egg, basically. Which
is not an easy thing to do. Absolutely. I've
seen so many chefs struggle frying an egg. You
cannot believe. I have here the temperatures,
you know, like the white sets at 80 to 85 degrees
while the yolk at 65 to 70, right? So you have
to play around that. I've seen like this real
videos where you see somebody separating the
eggs, cooking the white and then putting the
yolk on top. Which is, you know, like, at the
end, it's like a technical approach to solve
the problem, you know? That's pretty smart, yeah.
Yeah, you know, like, actually, in this video
that I saw, then they would fold the white like
a little ravioli and have, like, this square,
you know, like, kind of... That's pretty funny,
actually. Yeah. I like that. Yeah, I mean, like,
I've seen chefs struggle with frying eggs nicely,
right? If you have the... anybody can fry an
egg you know you you can train a chimpanzee to
fry an egg right to do it nicely to do it really
well depending on what your standards are right
when you say okay what is my perfect fried egg
i want the white to be fully cooked but not overcooked
because you can't overcook egg whites you know
where like there is like cooked egg white is
not equal to cooked egg white You know, at one
point when it's just about cooked, it's still
tender and nice and bouncy. And at some point
it becomes rubbery, right? Do you want color
on the bottom? Yes or no, right? Then also the
yolk, you know, do you want it to be raw? Do
you want it to be raw but warm, right? Or do
you want it to be a little bit waxy but still
creamy? Those are all things like how this is
the cool thing about cooking, how deep you delve
into this thing. thinking about one preparation
for one egg and then replicating that when you've
decided what is your perfect egg what is it that
you want say okay i want tender egg white i want
a little bit of color on the bottom so i'll add
a little bit of butter in the end i want to yolk
completely raw but i want it warm slightly warm
right how do i get there and then you make like
200 eggs right and every single one should be
like that Have you worked with egg yolk sauces?
Like plain egg yolk and salt? Sometimes they're
cooked sous vide, but... Because I've seen that
in cookbooks or videos, but I've never had that
on a prep station or anything. But I think it's
a very versatile thing that pretty much works
with anything. Any savory thing, you can add
egg yolk sauce and it will work, you know? Absolutely.
It's so nice. Like I have done it a couple of
times. I mean, like when I was here in Berlin,
we used to do it and just take egg yolks, poach
them to a certain temperature for a certain time
and then just mix them with a bit of garum. And
we would add a little bit of whey also from like
reducing. Super nice. Yeah, super nice. We used
to serve it with grilled mushrooms. And that
was the dish. Egg yolk sauce, grilled mushrooms,
you know, super tasty. Yeah, it was on a dinner
lunch recently. So everybody was cooking something.
There was this guy, Miguel Angel Rodriguez, who's
the chef from an amazing restaurant called Uma
in Santander. So he cooked some artichokes with
some ibérico, lardo. And then at the end, you
know, like... He cracked some eggs in a bowl
and he would take just the egg yolk with the
hands and put it on top, some salt, put it on
top. And, you know, like already the warm vegetables
would warm the yolk up and... That's it. Then
you break it, you mix it with the pretty easy.
That's the way they do the eggs, the mushrooms
at Gambara. That's something super common here.
I mean, like also nice fried potatoes with egg
yolk. I think it's one of the best things in
life for sure. Absolutely, man. A fried egg,
like a fried egg improves so many things, you
know, potatoes, you know, stuff like a rice,
like a Thai rice. Like what is this thing? what's
the name but there's this dish that's like a
thai basil stir fry holy basil stir fry it's
like minced meat that you throw in loads of holy
basil and then you eat it with rice obviously
and a fried egg oh my god it's so good you kind
of shred the like you cut the egg yolk and it
goes into the rice and it's like it's so good
Eggs are one of life's greatest pleasure, honestly.
And at the same time, they're super fucking healthy.
Yeah, I think it's so stupid when you see people,
like, buying these protein bars and, like, when
you can, you know, eat chicken breasts and eggs,
you know, there's your protein bar. There's actually
way more protein than in those protein bars,
you know, like, and at the end of the day, you
know. It's for sure healthier as long as it doesn't
have this whole whatever, soy lecithin or whatever
they add to those bars. And so simple and so
delicious, man. Yeah, I think people overcomplicate
this whole dietary thing quite a lot. Especially
with stuff like eggs. An egg has so many things
going for you. It has the protein. It improves
brain health by... it's a some substance starts
with c it's got antioxidants like it's good for
for your blood it's good for your eyes it's um
there's so many things you know and like people
are always like really scared of like cholesterol
you know oh my cholesterol but if you eat good
quality eggs you know you you'll have to eat
a lot of eggs to raise your cholesterol don't
worry about a few months ago we published a reel
that has already over half a million views uh
on a lemon tart And the interesting thing, and
we still get questions about this, like, how
is it possible that, so Phil was explaining that
here you mix eggs with butter and you bring them
to boil, proper boil, boil, and it wouldn't have
this scrambled egg effect. You know, like, and
a lot of people tell us, no, that's bullshit.
Like, even you said that yourself, like, the
first time you saw it. So I had to research on
this, like what happens there, and actually what...
So there are a few things that happen here inside
that. So this recipe has eggs, butter, lemon,
sugar, and heat. So it sounds suspiciously close
to scrambled eggs because you boil the whole
thing. Yet a lemon tart never tastes like omelet
because here the egg is not the star. It is a
quiet engineer in the background that binds everything
together. But we have sugar, sugar that interferes
with protein tightening. Butter softens the network.
Egg white is like a network that once a protein
coagulates, it starts to build into solidify,
gelify. Acid bends the rules of coagulation,
so the egg thickens the liquid, but lemon makes
the flavor. So this is... basically food science
um yeah i mean like you said when i when i read
that recipe the first time i was like that sounds
crazy to me you know like actually like boiling
the egg because i thought even if there's sugar
and there's butter like proper because you really
boil it i was like i i can't imagine that that's
not gonna be it'll not curdle like it would if
you just boil the egg by itself of course but
i was like no way it's gonna taste horrible and
then i did it the first time I made the recipe,
and the result was one of the best curds I've
ever seen. Like, it was perfect. Perfect. And
with a really beautiful flavor also. And very
adaptable recipe also. But then at the end of
the day, you know, it just comes to show you.
It just comes to show you that you don't know
everything. You know, just because you've been
doing something for a really long time doesn't
mean that you understand everything. And it should
encourage everybody to just try shit out. Even
if you see something, you're like, no, no way.
Just fucking try it out. Who cares? Worst case
scenario, you've got a pot of scrambled eggs
that tastes disgusting. And you throw it away
and you start again. And you say, oh, well, I
was right. Good on you. You were right. But best
case scenario, you've learned something and you've
got a cool new recipe to do. so usually you know
what when to use egg white and when to use egg
yolk you know like for some things and when to
use whole egg You know, like, okay, I'm going
to make an ice cream. Like, you go for yolk.
There are also recipes that go with whole egg.
Fine. You definitely don't want to use egg white
for that, as far as I know. I have no idea. But
for me, what I find interesting is when I see
recipes that mix whole eggs with yolks. And it's
like, how do you, what's the thought process
or what's the rationale behind it? And one of
my favorite cheesecake recipes, which, by the
way, is available on our webpage. You can look
for it. That is a take on a recipe from Suberoa
and also a take on a recipe from Javier Rivero.
And for me, it's the best cheesecake that you
will find here in the region. And they use whole
egg and yolks. And also the original cheesecake
from La Viña would add some flour. This one does
not. It's completely gluten -free. And I guess
that's the function. It also adds richness to
the whole thing. It also adds color. It's way
more yellow. But it also gives it enough structure
to hold the whole thing together without falling
apart that you would usually use flour for. Do
you come with those kind of thought processes
when you're formulating a recipe using eggs?
That's a good question. I mean, if I want to
make it more rich, if I have a recipe that uses
a whole egg and I want to make it more rich,
more fatty, more heavy, I add some more egg yolk.
If I don't want to compromise the qualities that
the egg white gives me. But apart from that,
it's like, I don't know. the other way around
it doesn't really work so much you know but you
could kind of say like all right um i don't want
to i don't want it to be more rich i don't want
it to be more heavy and creamy but i want it
to be more structure you could also just add
a dash of egg white you know into it there's
always an option i mean if you understand kind
of like what either one of the two gives you
which is complex in a way but in its simplicity
it's not complex right like the egg white gives
you protein gives you elasticity gives you bounce
gives you you know coagulation when cooked and
um the yolk gives you fattiness creaminess richness
um if you just approach it with that basic mindset
then you know you can you can play around with
that for example with pasta dough right i think
pasta dough is a really good example it's like
well what's your pasta dough for is it for filled
pasta or is it for just straight pasta like tagliatelle
or pappardelle or whatever you know so for a
straight pasta you don't necessarily want the
same texture as for a filled pasta filled pasta
you need to be a little bit smoother right you
need it to be like you need to be able to to
close it and to shape it but you also need enough
elasticity so it doesn't break right with like
if you make a spaghetti you don't need that But
you need stability and you need texture, you
know? More texture than you would probably need.
If you make that dough, if you make a strozzaprettido
for a ravioli, you're going to have a really
hard time even just rolling it out. Because you're
going to roll it out a million times and it's
just going to pull back, right? Until you have
it thin enough so you can fill it. So approaching
it with like everything in cooking, if you have
a little bit of a basic understanding of what
it is that you're dealing with, then... It helps
you a lot in your approach of sort of like fine
-tuning what you need things to do for you. Have
you ever tried Albert Adria's? Well, I don't
know if it's original from him, but I got like
a recipe that was from one of his restaurants
that already closed. This Bodega 1813 or something
like that was the name. That was a flan. If you
look for an old school recipe of a flan, like
the Spanish creme caramel, it will be milk and
whole eggs. But there is this whole new trend
about making these overly rich flans that are
also like runny at the core, that when you break
them, it's liquid and it falls apart. And they're
only cream with egg yolk. And of course, it's
decadent and delicious and, you know, like enough
calories to kill you in each bite, but worth
the dying. And yeah, have you ever tried those
ones? I feel like maybe one point I tried it,
but I've never, I don't think I've ever had one
of those really runny flans. Like for me, but
I think also the reason is that when I crave
a flan, I know exactly what I want. um like for
me for example i don't put any cream in a flan
like i wanted to be like quite eggy and like
bouncy but very tender you know um but um but
it sounds delicious like i mean again it's i
do i do like that and also like a good uh practice
both for for cheesecake and for this kind of
flans is uh letting the the mixture uh mature,
letting it overnight before actually cooking
it. Oh, interesting. Yeah, so the sugar cures
the egg yolk and it generates an effect that
just makes it better. Oh, nice. Yeah. I've never
tried that before, actually. So, let's go to
GoFuckYourself. GoFuckYourself. GoFuckYourself.
Egg whites whip better if they're aged. True
or false? That is a myth that I've heard for
many, many, many years. And I want to say I don't
think that's true, but so many people swear by
it, like so many pastry chefs that I've worked
with also, that I'm doubtful. But I would say
it's not true. You're wrong. As eggs age, the
pH rises and proteins unfold more easily, improving
foam formation. There you go. That was wrong.
One myth. Never salt eggs before cooking. What
do you think on that? I think that's bullshit.
Why? I don't know. Of course, you can say the
salt denatures the proteins and stuff, but I
don't think it has that much of an effect. Actually,
the thought behind this is that salt toughens
the eggs, but the truth is it actually helps
produce softer scrambled eggs. If you slide it
as salted before. Crazy. High heat makes better
scrambled eggs. Bullshit. So high heat creates
tight protein networks and dry curds. Gentler
heat allowed the proteins to coagulate gradually.
Yeah, but not as like, you know, I'm not a fan
of the whole like Gordon Ramsay on the heat,
off the heat, on the heat, off the heat and stir
like a fucking idiot, you know? So you have this
like coagulated kind of like. 60, 66 degree warm
egg sludge. Like I like a little bit of texture,
like a little bit, like I like the very soft
curves. So you have this like uneven texture
in your scrambled egg, but not just like one
puree, you know? I like very simple, uh, omelets,
you know, like I roll them. So they're a little
bit runny at the core, but sometimes even with
color on the outside, I don't like those, uh,
quotes perfectly omelettes where they have zero
color and are perfectly rolled. No. I mean, it's
a thing, but I prefer like. I like them. I think
they have their place. Yeah. Yeah, they do. They
do. Are eggs high in cholesterol? What do you
say? I say they, like they are, sure. But like,
I don't think that cholesterol equals cholesterol.
I think that if you eat good quality eggs, like
you don't have to worry about it too much. This
would be my take. As far as I know, that's a
myth. Like the thing that you shouldn't eat eggs
at night because they're high in cholesterol
and blah, blah, blah. But let's see. And the
answer is yes, they're high in cholesterol. But
that doesn't mean they're harmful for most people.
One egg has about 180 to 200 milligrams of cholesterol,
mostly in the yolk. However, modern research
shows that dietary cholesterol has limited effect
on blood cholesterol for most healthy individuals.
The bigger impact usually comes from saturated
fats and overall diet, not eggs themselves. That's
what I've heard, that eating eggs at night, the
problem is the fat where you cook it and not
the egg itself. Ah, I see. Let me check on that
as well. Is it unhealthy eating eggs at night?
No, eating eggs at night is not unhealthy at
all. What matters is how much you eat and how
they're cooked, not the time of the day. So if
they're high, I mean, they're high in protein
and fat, so they can actually help you feel full
and stabilize blood sugar overnight. They're
also relatively easy to digest for most people.
The only issue is very high greasy egg dishes
late at night. That's, yeah, that's what I, that's
something I heard in culinary school, you know,
like 20 years ago. Yeah. You hear a lot of cool
things. I remember at culinary school, they told
us that, you need to steer me to look at the
juice. Yeah, and that's something that still
today is repeated a lot. But you know what I
really think about these things? I think myths
and legends sometimes are important. Having things
in the common imaginary, even if they're not
scientifically true, but they somehow make a
point, I think they're useful. That's not true
that meat sears the meat. It holds the juices
inside by searing it. But it's a good practice
to sear the meat. That's true. I think that's
the point. Yeah, fair enough. Because also, for
example, here, you know the Gilda, the iconic
pincho. There are a couple of legends around
it. One is that it was the first pincho ever
created in Basque cuisine. And also that it was
named after Rita Haywood and this and that. And
this is something that is widely repeated. There
are even, yeah, that it was named Hilda after
Rita Haywood's Gilda movie because it looks like
a female, like the shape of the head with the...
Truth is, most of the things were written way
later after it was created. And this happens
with many things, that something is created,
years later somebody gives it a meaning or makes
up a background history, and that sticks. Very
commonly in many things. I could think of some
other examples. Food talk!