WEBVTT 00:00:03.969 --> 00:00:07.230 Hi, everyone. Welcome to Pot Luck Food Talks, 00:00:07.230 --> 00:00:09.250 the show where we talk food and kitchens from 00:00:09.250 --> 00:00:12.050 a cook's point of view. We're recording live 00:00:12.050 --> 00:00:14.849 from a place where bottles are open, the rules 00:00:14.849 --> 00:00:17.730 are flexible, and someone probably built a bar 00:00:17.730 --> 00:00:21.309 five minutes before service. My name is Erich 00:00:21.309 --> 00:00:23.910 von Stroheim, and I'm here with Philip Glass. 00:00:24.250 --> 00:00:27.649 Neither of us is qualified to be here. Today, 00:00:27.730 --> 00:00:30.410 we're talking about food that travels, pop -ups, 00:00:30.750 --> 00:00:33.590 borrowed kitchens, late -night tacos, and the 00:00:33.590 --> 00:00:36.549 cooks and mentors who pass things along quietly, 00:00:36.829 --> 00:00:39.509 one bottle, one service, one piece of advice 00:00:39.509 --> 00:00:54.609 at a time. But first... How's it going, man? 00:00:55.159 --> 00:00:58.780 Yeah, good, still alive. Yeah, how's life under 00:00:58.780 --> 00:01:02.460 missile attacks in Dubai? Yeah, crazy, man. A 00:01:02.460 --> 00:01:04.500 little bit crazy, but it seems like everything 00:01:04.500 --> 00:01:08.140 is fairly under control. A bit fucking surreal 00:01:08.140 --> 00:01:11.239 to see missiles being intercepted in the sky, 00:01:11.379 --> 00:01:14.299 but, you know, all things considering, everything's 00:01:14.299 --> 00:01:17.040 okay. Yeah, I guess you're used to work under 00:01:17.040 --> 00:01:19.400 pressure. It's just like one more layer to it. 00:01:19.400 --> 00:01:22.719 Yeah, one more layer, exactly. Just getting the 00:01:22.719 --> 00:01:24.980 fucking, you know, the like alarm on your phone, 00:01:25.099 --> 00:01:28.099 you know, like missile incoming just means you're 00:01:28.099 --> 00:01:31.219 going to send a fucking starter quicker, you 00:01:31.219 --> 00:01:34.500 know? Fuck, man. I know there are no wine cellars, 00:01:34.519 --> 00:01:39.879 probably. No, no, no. So how are you? What's 00:01:39.879 --> 00:01:42.760 going on? Good, man. Good. Like I did a short 00:01:42.760 --> 00:01:45.840 trip to Madrid. I went to some really nice traditional 00:01:45.840 --> 00:01:49.620 task. I think the thing about Madrid is not going 00:01:49.620 --> 00:01:55.439 to... Modern, casual restaurants is more about 00:01:55.439 --> 00:01:59.280 going to this all -routed places that have been 00:01:59.280 --> 00:02:02.359 open for decades or even centuries. There are 00:02:02.359 --> 00:02:05.299 some that have been open for centuries. And go 00:02:05.299 --> 00:02:09.080 there and have just down -to -earth, ultra -traditional 00:02:09.080 --> 00:02:11.139 Spanish food. That's the deal in Madrid for me. 00:02:11.659 --> 00:02:13.580 Yeah, in Madrid, you can, like, I think in Madrid, 00:02:13.639 --> 00:02:15.240 you could find that really well, no? Stuff like 00:02:15.240 --> 00:02:20.379 gallos and super nice. We went to La Bola. La 00:02:20.379 --> 00:02:23.319 Bola, which is the Cayos temple. And that's exactly 00:02:23.319 --> 00:02:25.340 what I'm talking about. You enter this place, 00:02:25.539 --> 00:02:29.819 you know, like the Cayos are tribe, for those 00:02:29.819 --> 00:02:33.620 who don't know. This was not Cayos. This was 00:02:33.620 --> 00:02:38.599 cocido madrileño, which is this traditional chickpea 00:02:38.599 --> 00:02:42.960 stew with different meats, like ultra intense 00:02:42.960 --> 00:02:46.139 broth, almost like a ramen that is cooked in 00:02:46.139 --> 00:02:51.439 a clay pot. So like each pot is one portion. 00:02:51.680 --> 00:02:55.740 I would definitely go, which is what I did. I 00:02:55.740 --> 00:02:58.500 went with a friend and we shared one for both. 00:02:58.580 --> 00:03:00.419 And then we ordered something else. It's not 00:03:00.419 --> 00:03:03.099 what people usually do, but it's what I recommend. 00:03:03.219 --> 00:03:05.099 I once recommended this to a friend who went 00:03:05.099 --> 00:03:09.180 on a date and they had one each. And, you know, 00:03:09.240 --> 00:03:11.360 like after that, you know, they went to sleep. 00:03:14.860 --> 00:03:18.360 Hey, but cocido madrileño ramen sounds like the 00:03:18.360 --> 00:03:21.879 perfect kind of fucking fusion food. Oh, yeah. 00:03:22.159 --> 00:03:25.879 Oh, yeah, absolutely. Like using the cocido broth 00:03:25.879 --> 00:03:31.120 and making a noodle soup out of it. Genius. There's 00:03:31.120 --> 00:03:33.520 nothing that could go wrong with that. Absolutely. 00:03:33.879 --> 00:03:36.460 That sounds like a lot of fun. So, dude, I wanted 00:03:36.460 --> 00:03:39.379 to ask you about, because I don't have the context, 00:03:39.479 --> 00:03:45.060 but I saw. Like this Instagram post that you 00:03:45.060 --> 00:03:49.659 were sharing and also, Mishael, about this Tres 00:03:49.659 --> 00:03:53.560 thing in Dubai that I don't know if it's a restaurant, 00:03:53.680 --> 00:03:56.020 a pop -up, an event that you guys organized, 00:03:56.099 --> 00:03:58.680 but it looked really cool. It looked like a collaboration. 00:03:59.280 --> 00:04:01.400 It looked like you were doing some Mexican food. 00:04:02.000 --> 00:04:03.939 What happened there? What can you elaborate on 00:04:03.939 --> 00:04:07.099 that? Yeah, so it was really, really fun. It 00:04:07.099 --> 00:04:10.240 was really cool. It was in February. And so basically, 00:04:10.479 --> 00:04:13.780 Tres is a restaurant that relatively recently 00:04:13.780 --> 00:04:17.699 opened up here in Dubai, end of last year. And 00:04:17.699 --> 00:04:21.620 the concept is by my friend Brandon, who I know 00:04:21.620 --> 00:04:24.240 from my time in working in Mexico City. So the 00:04:24.240 --> 00:04:29.399 Instagram account is Cocina Underline Tres. T 00:04:29.399 --> 00:04:32.800 -R -E -S. And yeah, you can see it there. That's 00:04:32.800 --> 00:04:34.920 it. And, you know, like he's an amazing chef. 00:04:34.920 --> 00:04:37.759 Like I've known him for over 10 years and he 00:04:37.759 --> 00:04:40.199 worked in amazing places. He worked in Pujol. 00:04:40.199 --> 00:04:44.300 He worked in Maximo Bistro for a really, really 00:04:44.300 --> 00:04:46.480 long time. He worked in Japan for a long time. 00:04:46.540 --> 00:04:51.699 He's really into Japanese food, like like capo 00:04:51.699 --> 00:04:55.339 style omakase food. And he's really into tea. 00:04:57.740 --> 00:05:00.660 And so the guys who opened this restaurant, they 00:05:00.660 --> 00:05:02.980 have a restaurant here in Dubai called Honeycomb. 00:05:03.180 --> 00:05:07.399 And Honeycomb, the food concept of it is made 00:05:07.399 --> 00:05:11.180 by Matt Abergale from Yardbird in Hong Kong. 00:05:11.279 --> 00:05:13.360 So he made the whole food concept, right? And 00:05:13.360 --> 00:05:15.519 so when they wanted to open a new place and they 00:05:15.519 --> 00:05:17.000 were sort of thinking, oh, let's maybe make Mexican 00:05:17.000 --> 00:05:19.420 food. Matt, because he's good friends with Brandon, 00:05:19.579 --> 00:05:21.800 he recommended Brandon to do the food concept. 00:05:22.829 --> 00:05:25.769 Did an absolutely amazing job. It's so rare, 00:05:25.769 --> 00:05:27.189 you know, like for people who've been to Mexico 00:05:27.189 --> 00:05:31.870 and have experienced real Mexican food. It's 00:05:31.870 --> 00:05:35.670 very, very rare to find that, like the authentic 00:05:35.670 --> 00:05:38.329 flavor. It doesn't have to be traditional dishes 00:05:38.329 --> 00:05:41.529 per se, but the flavor profile and like the ingredients 00:05:41.529 --> 00:05:43.589 to really find that outside. It's always like 00:05:43.589 --> 00:05:46.350 text mixed or whatever. You know, Brandon did 00:05:46.350 --> 00:05:48.810 a fucking amazing job. Like the food is absolutely 00:05:48.810 --> 00:05:52.120 delicious. It's exactly what Dubai needs, you 00:05:52.120 --> 00:05:54.560 know, apart from needing not to be bombed anymore. 00:05:54.819 --> 00:05:57.660 They need these like casual restaurants where 00:05:57.660 --> 00:06:00.040 you could just go grab a bite, have a drink. 00:06:00.100 --> 00:06:02.939 It's really fun. I think one of the, for me at 00:06:02.939 --> 00:06:07.560 least, like I haven't been to Mexico and my authentic 00:06:07.560 --> 00:06:11.019 Mexican food experiences are limited. But something 00:06:11.019 --> 00:06:13.660 that for me really tells the difference is the 00:06:13.660 --> 00:06:16.300 punchiness. You know, you need to have that clack, 00:06:16.319 --> 00:06:20.480 like that. sour kick or the you know like that 00:06:20.480 --> 00:06:24.199 deep uh deep aromas and the spiciness not just 00:06:24.199 --> 00:06:27.720 spicy but but those floral things that go on 00:06:27.720 --> 00:06:31.139 the underneath i think that those are like like 00:06:31.139 --> 00:06:35.100 the things i look for most yeah absolutely and 00:06:35.100 --> 00:06:37.699 it's like like the the techniques and the flavor 00:06:37.699 --> 00:06:41.100 profile of mexican food they're so like ancient 00:06:41.100 --> 00:06:44.000 and so deep like they're so beautiful you know 00:06:44.000 --> 00:06:46.579 i mean like from From things that are, like, 00:06:46.600 --> 00:06:48.740 well -known, like, you know, the different types 00:06:48.740 --> 00:06:50.300 of salsas, you know, which can be, like, you 00:06:50.300 --> 00:06:52.060 know, I mean, the chili culture, you know, is 00:06:52.060 --> 00:06:54.399 amazing. You go to a market in Mexico and, like, 00:06:54.420 --> 00:06:57.579 from fresh to dry to smoked to preserved to, 00:06:57.600 --> 00:07:01.620 like, in adobo, like... They invented it, basically. 00:07:02.019 --> 00:07:04.339 Incredible. Chili culture, you know, like... 00:07:04.339 --> 00:07:06.680 Absolutely, yeah. But then also, like, ancient, 00:07:06.839 --> 00:07:09.560 like, things like mole, you know, we all kind 00:07:09.560 --> 00:07:11.180 of, like, nowadays, like, people who are into 00:07:11.180 --> 00:07:13.420 food, they know mole, but they know mole as this, 00:07:13.480 --> 00:07:16.779 like... very dark sauce with like chocolate and 00:07:16.779 --> 00:07:20.279 dried fruit and stuff like that but there's different 00:07:20.279 --> 00:07:22.000 types of moles you know there's there's green 00:07:22.000 --> 00:07:25.860 mole there's um mole -esque sauces like pipian 00:07:25.860 --> 00:07:30.139 which is made out of um pumpkin seeds and like 00:07:30.139 --> 00:07:32.920 the first time like i tried these sauces in in 00:07:32.920 --> 00:07:34.879 mexico like i was mind blown because it's kind 00:07:34.879 --> 00:07:38.439 of like satay sauce but like it from a different 00:07:38.439 --> 00:07:41.610 world Super, super cool. Really unique. Yeah, 00:07:41.670 --> 00:07:44.290 so Brandon made a food concept like using real 00:07:44.290 --> 00:07:50.389 Mexican roots in a very, very fun and casual 00:07:50.389 --> 00:07:52.970 way. It's really, really good. And so when I 00:07:52.970 --> 00:07:55.230 saw him, like we reconnected after 10 years of 00:07:55.230 --> 00:07:57.350 not having seen each other, you know, he's trying 00:07:57.350 --> 00:08:00.250 to open his restaurant concept in Mexico City 00:08:00.250 --> 00:08:02.709 called NACAR. So people want to follow Brandon, 00:08:02.810 --> 00:08:07.709 just Google, search on Instagram NACAR Mexico. 00:08:08.639 --> 00:08:10.660 That's his concept. He basically does Mexican 00:08:10.660 --> 00:08:12.939 food with a very Japanese influence in a sort 00:08:12.939 --> 00:08:15.579 of like omakase way. It's very, very cool. And 00:08:15.579 --> 00:08:17.000 after meeting up for a couple of times, we said, 00:08:17.100 --> 00:08:19.199 hey, why don't you come to the club and we do 00:08:19.199 --> 00:08:20.879 a collaboration together. We'll collaborate on 00:08:20.879 --> 00:08:23.439 a menu. We'll do like one big table of like 50 00:08:23.439 --> 00:08:26.420 people. We'll do one tasting menu. So it was 00:08:26.420 --> 00:08:29.379 a one -day event, what you guys did. Well, we 00:08:29.379 --> 00:08:31.220 did, yeah. Tres is an individual restaurant, 00:08:31.339 --> 00:08:33.320 but we did like a one -day event in the club. 00:08:33.340 --> 00:08:35.299 Okay, because I wasn't completely understanding 00:08:35.299 --> 00:08:37.500 what was going on. Okay, that's pretty cool. 00:08:37.659 --> 00:08:40.460 Okay, okay, okay. Yeah, it was super fun. It 00:08:40.460 --> 00:08:43.419 was super fun because like, you know, he's a 00:08:43.419 --> 00:08:45.320 really, really good chef and he's also just a 00:08:45.320 --> 00:08:47.659 fucking professional. You know, we've done in 00:08:47.659 --> 00:08:49.919 the arts club, we've done a couple of collaborations 00:08:49.919 --> 00:08:54.379 with people. And since I rejoined, we've done 00:08:54.379 --> 00:09:00.519 three plus the Brandon one. And every single 00:09:00.519 --> 00:09:02.960 time, these collaborations were an absolute shitshow. 00:09:03.059 --> 00:09:06.980 It's incredible. People who have a big name in 00:09:06.980 --> 00:09:08.500 the industry, they've got their own restaurants, 00:09:08.980 --> 00:09:13.659 they're on TV, they're in magazines. And you 00:09:13.659 --> 00:09:16.440 ask them to collaborate on something, they have 00:09:16.440 --> 00:09:19.799 no fucking idea what's going on. You would be 00:09:19.799 --> 00:09:23.039 surprised that these people, 80 % of the time, 00:09:23.120 --> 00:09:28.059 don't do any prep. anything they just show up 00:09:28.059 --> 00:09:30.519 an hour before the event actually happens and 00:09:30.519 --> 00:09:32.940 it's like all right what are we doing and then 00:09:32.940 --> 00:09:34.820 they just go around the tables hey hello hey 00:09:34.820 --> 00:09:38.080 hey how's it going then afterwards they let's 00:09:38.080 --> 00:09:39.840 they take photos with the people you know and 00:09:39.840 --> 00:09:42.779 then they say all right all right guys bye have 00:09:42.779 --> 00:09:47.299 fun cleaning up see you later and with brandon 00:09:47.299 --> 00:09:48.740 it's not like it wasn't like that you know he's 00:09:48.740 --> 00:09:51.019 a real professional it's just super cool to talk 00:09:51.019 --> 00:09:53.600 about dishes, think about dishes together. We 00:09:53.600 --> 00:09:56.379 did some really cool stuff. How is it to adapt 00:09:56.379 --> 00:09:58.919 Mexican cuisine to an Arab audience? Because, 00:09:59.000 --> 00:10:00.960 of course, there's no pork. I don't know how 00:10:00.960 --> 00:10:04.720 much is alcohol present in actually cooking in 00:10:04.720 --> 00:10:07.500 Mexican cuisine. I think not that much, but probably 00:10:07.500 --> 00:10:11.600 somewhere. But yeah, besides that, is it an easy 00:10:11.600 --> 00:10:14.600 to adapt cuisine to that audience? You know, 00:10:14.620 --> 00:10:18.029 you would think not. But after you spend some 00:10:18.029 --> 00:10:21.629 time here in the Emirates, it gets easier and 00:10:21.629 --> 00:10:25.549 easier. Also because we have access to some really, 00:10:25.570 --> 00:10:28.629 really good produce at this point in time. For 00:10:28.629 --> 00:10:32.610 example, Mexican food uses a lot of manteca, 00:10:32.750 --> 00:10:35.490 a lot of pork fat, and a lot of pork in itself. 00:10:36.289 --> 00:10:41.330 So obviously there's no pork. But manteca, you 00:10:41.330 --> 00:10:43.970 can also use really good, high -quality Wagyu 00:10:43.970 --> 00:10:49.159 beef fat. This is very delicious. Like, you know, 00:10:49.159 --> 00:10:53.639 and we have a lot of that. Wow, that's, yeah, 00:10:53.799 --> 00:10:56.580 that's super interesting, that adaptation. It 00:10:56.580 --> 00:10:59.899 reminds me when I was in Mass in Tokyo with Santiago 00:10:59.899 --> 00:11:03.840 Fernandez, he had like a dish where the original 00:11:03.840 --> 00:11:08.240 dish at Central in Lima, Peru. was made with 00:11:08.240 --> 00:11:12.580 alpaca, which is, you know, basically this llama, 00:11:12.700 --> 00:11:15.639 not llama, but like a similar animal from the 00:11:15.639 --> 00:11:20.960 Andes, which that meat has a specific toxin that 00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:24.440 makes it banned in Japan. So he did an adaptation, 00:11:24.700 --> 00:11:27.620 like same, you know, same composition, same flavors 00:11:27.620 --> 00:11:29.860 and everything, but he used Wagyu beef tongue. 00:11:30.330 --> 00:11:32.350 instead of, you know, like at the end of the 00:11:32.350 --> 00:11:36.029 day, you know, like that's what adapting is about. 00:11:36.149 --> 00:11:38.610 I think that's something basically that every 00:11:38.610 --> 00:11:41.519 chef should know, you know? Yeah, absolutely. 00:11:41.799 --> 00:11:44.360 Absolutely. It's, you know, often it's good to 00:11:44.360 --> 00:11:47.440 have limitations. It kind of pushes you to rethink 00:11:47.440 --> 00:11:49.679 certain things when everything's possible and 00:11:49.679 --> 00:11:52.980 everything's available. It sometimes almost limits, 00:11:53.100 --> 00:11:55.679 it like stops you, you know, when you have limitations, 00:11:55.679 --> 00:11:58.940 it forces you to think in a certain way and in 00:11:58.940 --> 00:12:00.600 a certain direction. And often you find things 00:12:00.600 --> 00:12:03.120 that you end up really, really liking, you know, 00:12:03.120 --> 00:12:09.049 like. For example, Brandon at Tres, he made this 00:12:09.049 --> 00:12:12.570 very simple starter of queso fundido. So he has 00:12:12.570 --> 00:12:15.950 this little cast iron skillet and he makes chorizo 00:12:15.950 --> 00:12:20.129 from fish. So he just dices up fish and cures 00:12:20.129 --> 00:12:22.450 it like a chorizo, like a fresh chorizo. And 00:12:22.450 --> 00:12:26.009 then lets that out in the pan and puts queso 00:12:26.009 --> 00:12:29.370 Oaxaca on top and gratins it and serves that 00:12:29.370 --> 00:12:31.330 with fresh tortillas. And you basically scoop 00:12:31.330 --> 00:12:34.059 this. melted cheese with the fish chorizo out 00:12:34.059 --> 00:12:36.220 onto the tortilla and eat it and it's fucking 00:12:36.220 --> 00:12:38.720 delicious you just kind of you're kind of like 00:12:38.720 --> 00:12:40.519 well i can't make normal chorizo so what do i 00:12:40.519 --> 00:12:42.360 do and then you come up with a new technique 00:12:42.360 --> 00:12:45.279 that's fucking cool i also had like a nice mexican 00:12:45.279 --> 00:12:48.340 experience recently dude like something really 00:12:48.340 --> 00:12:50.820 crazy happened out of nowhere because i forgot 00:12:50.820 --> 00:12:54.600 my cousin walter from from omagase by walt and 00:12:54.600 --> 00:12:59.740 ibiza I knew, but I forgot that he was coming 00:12:59.740 --> 00:13:02.000 to San Sebastian, and suddenly he calls like, 00:13:02.100 --> 00:13:05.059 hey, cousin, I'm coming tonight. And I was like, 00:13:05.100 --> 00:13:07.659 oh, fuck. And then suddenly, out of nowhere, 00:13:07.960 --> 00:13:11.899 also my friend Diego Prado, who was organizing 00:13:11.899 --> 00:13:17.360 like a course for the fermentation master, and 00:13:17.360 --> 00:13:19.379 he invited Douglas McMaster, and he calls me 00:13:19.379 --> 00:13:21.159 like, hey, Douglas McMaster, can you take him 00:13:21.159 --> 00:13:24.529 out tonight to have some pinchos in town? And 00:13:24.529 --> 00:13:26.610 suddenly I was like, oh, okay, like I'm taking 00:13:26.610 --> 00:13:29.950 these two guys out for a crazy dinner, you know, 00:13:29.990 --> 00:13:32.990 like out of nowhere. That's so cool, man. Yeah, 00:13:33.129 --> 00:13:36.470 like we had a great time. It was really fun. 00:13:37.230 --> 00:13:40.809 But so after that, I spent like four nights going 00:13:40.809 --> 00:13:44.509 out with Walter to different places. There's 00:13:44.509 --> 00:13:46.870 a new place that I really want to go here in 00:13:46.870 --> 00:13:50.230 San Sebastian that is called Echemaite. This 00:13:50.230 --> 00:13:53.570 guy is like a Elcano veteran, so it's like a 00:13:53.570 --> 00:13:57.929 very, you know, straightforward Basque produce 00:13:57.929 --> 00:14:01.950 -driven cuisine. So I really wanted to try that, 00:14:02.029 --> 00:14:04.830 but for some reason the hours didn't match, and 00:14:04.830 --> 00:14:06.870 I ended up going to another one that was also 00:14:06.870 --> 00:14:09.090 on my bucket list and I couldn't go before, which 00:14:09.090 --> 00:14:13.980 is Erre. This is led by a couple, O 'Brien and 00:14:13.980 --> 00:14:18.860 Anelore. They're both chefs. She's Basque, he's 00:14:18.860 --> 00:14:22.820 Mexican. And, you know, there has been this strong 00:14:22.820 --> 00:14:26.539 tandem and exchange of cultures between Mexico 00:14:26.539 --> 00:14:28.820 and the Basque country. There are Basque chefs 00:14:28.820 --> 00:14:31.120 that have restaurants in Mexico, Mexican chefs 00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:34.000 that have restaurants here. The chocolate was 00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:37.860 very important even centuries ago with the trades 00:14:37.860 --> 00:14:42.850 from the Americas. So there's a lot of cultural 00:14:42.850 --> 00:14:46.090 connection. Also, they're very focused on natural 00:14:46.090 --> 00:14:48.169 wines and they have like a nice wine selection 00:14:48.169 --> 00:14:51.590 and everything. But the focus was pretty much 00:14:51.590 --> 00:14:55.929 in the food, at least. Very Mexican. There were 00:14:55.929 --> 00:15:00.169 things that felt more like Basque or European. 00:15:00.429 --> 00:15:03.389 We had just a la carte. Dude, that's also something 00:15:03.389 --> 00:15:05.960 I wanted to comment with you. a la carte is a 00:15:05.960 --> 00:15:09.860 thing you know like why why having you know like 00:15:09.860 --> 00:15:16.139 a 150 course menu where each component has 700 00:15:16.139 --> 00:15:18.960 ingredients and 300 elaborations and where you 00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:23.620 need 1500 chefs to execute it when you can do 00:15:23.620 --> 00:15:27.220 so nice things with just so little and make something 00:15:27.220 --> 00:15:30.539 amazing and memorable you know like and it's 00:15:30.539 --> 00:15:34.919 it's enough and it's nice We always compare cooking 00:15:34.919 --> 00:15:38.559 with music. And I don't know, if you think about, 00:15:38.720 --> 00:15:42.759 for example, Seven Nation Armies from the White 00:15:42.759 --> 00:15:47.480 Stripes, you know, that's the easiest song to 00:15:47.480 --> 00:15:49.840 play and it's impactful and memorable and it 00:15:49.840 --> 00:15:53.500 generates sensations and everything. While you 00:15:53.500 --> 00:15:56.200 compare it to something really complex with hundreds 00:15:56.200 --> 00:15:58.080 of musicians doing a hundred of things at the 00:15:58.080 --> 00:15:59.940 same time. And you know, like one is not better 00:15:59.940 --> 00:16:04.259 than the other. It's just like one is more resourceful 00:16:04.259 --> 00:16:08.720 than the other, you know? But in any case, we 00:16:08.720 --> 00:16:11.279 had like an aguachile as a starter. He did something 00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:14.059 really cool with the marinade. He used kiwi, 00:16:14.139 --> 00:16:16.899 which I never saw before, but it was really punchy. 00:16:17.220 --> 00:16:20.720 So the kiwi gave like this texture to the aguachile. 00:16:21.899 --> 00:16:23.919 cleanly strained, so you won't see any seeds 00:16:23.919 --> 00:16:26.620 or anything. You will just see like a clean, 00:16:26.740 --> 00:16:30.919 green sauce. Lots of fruits in there. Super nice. 00:16:31.259 --> 00:16:38.179 Then he did a squab, like pigeon, from Aranjuez. 00:16:39.639 --> 00:16:45.039 Super beautifully executed. And we also had some... 00:16:46.110 --> 00:16:49.629 vegetables in between. And for me, the main thing 00:16:49.629 --> 00:16:51.429 is something I wanted to try because I heard 00:16:51.429 --> 00:16:54.169 about that before, that he serves the steak, 00:16:54.389 --> 00:16:58.029 the chuleta, the bone -in sirloin that you find 00:16:58.029 --> 00:17:02.159 here in the Basque country, with tortillas. You 00:17:02.159 --> 00:17:04.680 know, which is for me, for me, actually, tortillas 00:17:04.680 --> 00:17:09.720 is the DNA of Mexican food. You know, like Mexican 00:17:09.720 --> 00:17:13.000 food without tortillas is not Mexican food. You 00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:15.980 know, it's like bread for European or rice for 00:17:15.980 --> 00:17:19.039 Asians. And yeah, having these tortillas with 00:17:19.039 --> 00:17:21.500 the chuleta and it also had some salsa so that 00:17:21.500 --> 00:17:23.920 you could play around. Each bite would be different 00:17:23.920 --> 00:17:27.019 and everything. I mean, I love the way that the 00:17:27.019 --> 00:17:30.440 Basque do their grill. That is just salt. You 00:17:30.440 --> 00:17:33.819 know, like a bus cuisine is radically minimalistic 00:17:33.819 --> 00:17:37.140 and that's also beautiful. But this playfulness 00:17:37.140 --> 00:17:40.299 and changing around, you know, like for a change, 00:17:40.319 --> 00:17:42.440 it's also super fun. And I really enjoyed that 00:17:42.440 --> 00:17:44.880 place. But the highlight for me was actually 00:17:44.880 --> 00:17:48.720 at the end, I wanted to go home. I was already, 00:17:48.819 --> 00:17:51.460 I had to work the next day, but my cousin, he 00:17:51.460 --> 00:17:53.819 was on, so to say, holidays. He was traveling. 00:17:53.940 --> 00:17:57.009 He was in San Sebastian. He was like, hey. Let's 00:17:57.009 --> 00:18:00.470 ask the chef. He probably has some nice mezcals. 00:18:00.849 --> 00:18:04.650 And I was like, of course he has. Of course. 00:18:05.329 --> 00:18:08.410 There's no question that he has. So, but this 00:18:08.410 --> 00:18:11.609 was like a really insightful experience for me 00:18:11.609 --> 00:18:14.569 because there is a broader family of traditional 00:18:14.569 --> 00:18:18.569 agave and dessert distillates that are often 00:18:18.569 --> 00:18:22.180 grouped with mezcal. for their artisanal methods 00:18:22.180 --> 00:18:25.539 and terroir -driven character, but they're not 00:18:25.539 --> 00:18:28.539 mezcal. So one that we have is called Sotol, 00:18:28.680 --> 00:18:33.339 which is distilled from the plant Dacirulion 00:18:33.339 --> 00:18:35.680 or something like that. And the other is Raisilla, 00:18:35.900 --> 00:18:39.359 original agave distillate from Jalisco, which 00:18:39.359 --> 00:18:43.039 has its own DOP, its own protected denomination 00:18:43.039 --> 00:18:46.859 and distinct tradition. So the one that we have 00:18:46.859 --> 00:18:51.740 first is Sotol. Dude, like super nice. Like it 00:18:51.740 --> 00:18:57.079 had this, um, aromas of crushed herbs, raisins, 00:18:57.079 --> 00:19:01.099 stone, you know, like smoke in the, in the, in 00:19:01.099 --> 00:19:05.359 the background. Uh, very green, very botanical, 00:19:05.380 --> 00:19:08.000 beautiful. And the other one that was the absolute 00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:12.039 highlight. It's, uh, uh, Raisilla Japo is the 00:19:12.039 --> 00:19:16.380 name from Mesonte. So Raisilla Japo. was made 00:19:16.380 --> 00:19:19.519 by a guy called Happo. That was his nickname, 00:19:19.640 --> 00:19:22.819 who unfortunately passed away recently. So it's 00:19:22.819 --> 00:19:26.200 a Finnish thing. Its maker is gone, and the bottles 00:19:26.200 --> 00:19:28.619 that exist are the ones that exist. This was 00:19:28.619 --> 00:19:32.000 really mind -blowing. I remember O 'Brien, the 00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:35.259 chef, saying, give them little kisses while you 00:19:35.259 --> 00:19:38.000 drink. I was having just like a micro finger 00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:40.160 because I didn't want to drink. I had to work 00:19:40.160 --> 00:19:42.920 next day. But I would give them. And there was 00:19:42.920 --> 00:19:44.960 a lot of things going on there, you know, like 00:19:44.960 --> 00:19:48.380 the fermented agaves, soft lactic notes, herbs, 00:19:48.799 --> 00:19:52.740 just some smoke. It was really alive. It would 00:19:52.740 --> 00:19:55.240 really transport you to somewhere else. You know, 00:19:55.259 --> 00:19:58.299 it reminded me of some, I remember in New York 00:19:58.299 --> 00:20:02.119 having some really nice mezcals that this underground 00:20:02.119 --> 00:20:04.279 things that come in a plastic bottle, like in 00:20:04.279 --> 00:20:06.180 a Coca -Cola bottle full of booze, you know, 00:20:06.220 --> 00:20:11.490 like, like it feels like clandestine. It reminds 00:20:11.490 --> 00:20:14.609 me of that. Incredible. Like if you can find 00:20:14.609 --> 00:20:19.670 that, get a bottle while they still exist. That 00:20:19.670 --> 00:20:22.809 sounds amazing. I think mezcal as like the umbrella 00:20:22.809 --> 00:20:25.789 term for distilled agave drinks that are not 00:20:25.789 --> 00:20:28.869 tequila, right? It's super underrated and there's 00:20:28.869 --> 00:20:31.390 so much going on. It's really beautiful. They're 00:20:31.390 --> 00:20:33.950 really, really beautiful, beautiful drinks. Like 00:20:33.950 --> 00:20:35.930 if you think of tequila and you think of this 00:20:35.930 --> 00:20:38.970 like very strong, very pungent kind of thing, 00:20:39.130 --> 00:20:43.019 mezcal. Mezcal is very varied. Like, you can't 00:20:43.019 --> 00:20:44.940 generalize what mezcal tastes like. You have, 00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:47.319 like, very sharp, very strong. They say herbal. 00:20:47.359 --> 00:20:49.880 You have smoky. You have sweet. You have so much 00:20:49.880 --> 00:20:52.319 going on. It's very, very complex. And I love 00:20:52.319 --> 00:20:54.000 what you say, like, with the chuleta and the 00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:55.880 tortillas. That's exactly what we did in the 00:20:55.880 --> 00:20:58.759 pop -up also as a main course. We had this, like, 00:20:58.779 --> 00:21:02.980 bone -in wagyu ribeye steak. I saw the videos. 00:21:04.099 --> 00:21:06.880 Was it Brandon, the guy cutting the chuletas? 00:21:07.390 --> 00:21:10.650 Yes, the Shaolin monk Brandon. Yeah, absolutely. 00:21:10.930 --> 00:21:13.950 With laser sharp focus. You could tell that guy 00:21:13.950 --> 00:21:17.309 is a machine just from seeing him work. And yeah, 00:21:17.349 --> 00:21:19.170 it was so fun, you know. I mean, tortillas in 00:21:19.170 --> 00:21:21.670 itself, right? Good quality tortillas. It's like, 00:21:21.789 --> 00:21:24.869 I like that you compared it to rice in Asian 00:21:24.869 --> 00:21:26.289 cooking because I remember when I was living 00:21:26.289 --> 00:21:28.720 in Japan. And you have this, like you get this 00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:31.819 appreciation for good rice. Even now today, when 00:21:31.819 --> 00:21:35.700 I smell freshly made steamed white rice, like 00:21:35.700 --> 00:21:38.279 I start like, like I start getting hungry. Like 00:21:38.279 --> 00:21:40.519 my mouth starts to salivate. I'm like, I'm like 00:21:40.519 --> 00:21:43.359 wires to, to want that, you know? And it's the 00:21:43.359 --> 00:21:45.000 same with tortillas. When I went to Interest, 00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:46.880 they, they nixtamalized the corn themselves. 00:21:47.019 --> 00:21:49.839 You know, they brought Molino from Mexico. They 00:21:49.839 --> 00:21:52.579 import the dried corn. They do the nixtamalization 00:21:52.579 --> 00:21:54.500 there. They make the tortillas fresh every day. 00:21:55.180 --> 00:21:57.880 And so you walk in and you smell the nixtamal. 00:21:58.059 --> 00:22:00.640 It's so beautiful. It's such a unique aroma. 00:22:00.859 --> 00:22:03.019 Like you cannot, I don't think you can compare 00:22:03.019 --> 00:22:05.559 it to anything. So for those who don't know, 00:22:05.740 --> 00:22:08.900 nixtamal is basically maize corn that has been 00:22:08.900 --> 00:22:11.700 soaked in and cooked in an alkaline solution, 00:22:11.940 --> 00:22:15.720 traditionally water with lime. So calcium hydroxide, 00:22:15.880 --> 00:22:19.440 which loosens the whole, improves nutrition and 00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:22.119 allows it to be ground into masa for tortillas 00:22:22.119 --> 00:22:23.900 and other dishes. And it's something that... 00:22:24.730 --> 00:22:26.849 It's traditional in Mexico, but you will see 00:22:26.849 --> 00:22:30.190 that also in other cultures all over Latin America. 00:22:30.529 --> 00:22:33.470 And it's so wonderful. You have freshly made, 00:22:33.529 --> 00:22:36.609 good quality tortillas. A good piece of meat. 00:22:36.670 --> 00:22:37.970 And then you have a couple of condiments. You 00:22:37.970 --> 00:22:40.089 know, we did like a, I think we did like a shiso 00:22:40.089 --> 00:22:43.569 jalapeño salsa verde. And we did a mole seco 00:22:43.569 --> 00:22:47.029 with like lots of spices and like an onion salad. 00:22:47.150 --> 00:22:50.210 So onions like quickly sauteed, but sort of still 00:22:50.210 --> 00:22:52.690 crunchy. De -glazed with a little bit of maggi. 00:22:53.579 --> 00:22:57.359 and then like molle secco and then you just take 00:22:57.359 --> 00:22:59.420 like a slice of beef a little bit of salsa a 00:22:59.420 --> 00:23:01.900 little bit of this like onion it's absolutely 00:23:01.900 --> 00:23:04.279 amazing another thing that we did as we were 00:23:04.279 --> 00:23:06.700 talking about molle earlier which was one of 00:23:06.700 --> 00:23:09.119 my favorite dishes of the night we really wanted 00:23:09.119 --> 00:23:12.140 to do like a lobster dish and so we took the 00:23:12.140 --> 00:23:14.900 lobster we blanched it but keeping it raw we 00:23:14.900 --> 00:23:17.279 took it out and then we just like popped it into 00:23:17.279 --> 00:23:20.380 melted wagyu beef fat and just poached it in 00:23:20.380 --> 00:23:23.130 the beef fat And then afterwards, where it was 00:23:23.130 --> 00:23:26.109 just like super glazy, we took it out, we put 00:23:26.109 --> 00:23:28.049 it on the grill under like a little bit of like 00:23:28.049 --> 00:23:30.950 smoking wood. So just like smoked it on the wood 00:23:30.950 --> 00:23:33.450 a little bit, finished it on the grill. And then 00:23:33.450 --> 00:23:36.690 we served that with a mole made from peanuts, 00:23:36.970 --> 00:23:40.450 peanut mole, like a really thick paste, you know. 00:23:41.190 --> 00:23:45.809 And we did a little salad of like persimmon with 00:23:45.809 --> 00:23:48.829 like ginger, spring onions, shiso. They're very 00:23:48.829 --> 00:23:52.039 fresh. just like a dressing made from like confit 00:23:52.039 --> 00:23:54.240 spring onions ginger and shio kombu which is 00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:58.559 salted kelp and like this like confit meaty smoky 00:23:58.559 --> 00:24:00.880 lobster with the peanut mole and like the fresh 00:24:00.880 --> 00:24:04.700 salad and like it didn't really make sense like 00:24:04.700 --> 00:24:06.599 is it mexican is it asian like what is it you 00:24:06.599 --> 00:24:08.819 know but it is fucking amazing it's so delicious 00:24:08.819 --> 00:24:11.599 i love it when people can cook freely like this 00:24:11.599 --> 00:24:15.859 you know Yeah, lime, not the citrus fruit. Lime, 00:24:15.900 --> 00:24:18.720 like, you know, like often you... The one that 00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:21.519 burns your skin if you touch it. Exactly, the 00:24:21.519 --> 00:24:25.000 alkaline thing. Like often the old, like ashes 00:24:25.000 --> 00:24:27.240 were used and stuff like that. Traditionally, 00:24:27.400 --> 00:24:30.339 as far as I know. Before, we were talking about 00:24:30.339 --> 00:24:35.740 adapting cuisine to other audiences. And this 00:24:35.740 --> 00:24:38.460 was also funny because I was talking with Walter. 00:24:39.049 --> 00:24:42.390 By the way, go check his Instagram, omakase, 00:24:42.549 --> 00:24:45.289 by Walt. He has a Michelin star in Ibiza, and 00:24:45.289 --> 00:24:48.430 he does, like, super traditional sushi. We have 00:24:48.430 --> 00:24:50.029 an episode with him. You can check it out as 00:24:50.029 --> 00:24:55.690 well. So I asked him because I got, after the 00:24:55.690 --> 00:24:58.369 enzyme episode, you know, like, I got really 00:24:58.369 --> 00:25:02.569 curious about it, and I bought some enzymes powdered. 00:25:02.730 --> 00:25:06.089 You know, like, I got some proteases and other 00:25:06.089 --> 00:25:10.420 things. And just like back in the days, you know, 00:25:10.500 --> 00:25:13.420 when you would have like these powders of agar 00:25:13.420 --> 00:25:16.059 or whatever that, you know, they would have like 00:25:16.059 --> 00:25:20.559 this standard recipes in the, you know, in the 00:25:20.559 --> 00:25:23.819 package that would say, yeah, you can do vegan 00:25:23.819 --> 00:25:26.619 gelatin or whatever. And here's a recipe for 00:25:26.619 --> 00:25:29.359 orange vegan gelatin or, you know, like this 00:25:29.359 --> 00:25:31.460 kind of thing. The same thing is now with this, 00:25:31.500 --> 00:25:36.150 like more innovative products to use today. And 00:25:36.150 --> 00:25:38.309 the example they would give you is to do a liquid 00:25:38.309 --> 00:25:42.390 Gilda, like the Gilda, you know, the anchovy, 00:25:42.529 --> 00:25:49.190 piparra, olive skewer. Basically to blend it, 00:25:49.369 --> 00:25:53.150 add some protease and accelerate the process 00:25:53.150 --> 00:25:55.410 that turns everything into liquid. And then you 00:25:55.410 --> 00:25:58.809 would have like this, they call it Gilda garum. 00:25:59.549 --> 00:26:01.670 So I was thinking like, wow, this is really cool. 00:26:01.809 --> 00:26:04.609 Like you can do that, like basically like a... 00:26:05.359 --> 00:26:08.000 An accelerated garum, you know, like you get 00:26:08.000 --> 00:26:11.420 anchovies, you blend them, you add some of this 00:26:11.420 --> 00:26:13.819 powder, you wait a couple of hours and suddenly 00:26:13.819 --> 00:26:15.839 everything is liquid and you have this intense 00:26:15.839 --> 00:26:20.480 anchovy sauce liquid, you know, like this quick 00:26:20.480 --> 00:26:23.910 garum, so to say. That's pretty cool. I haven't 00:26:23.910 --> 00:26:27.630 done that yet. I haven't had the time, but I 00:26:27.630 --> 00:26:29.450 definitely want to do that. I love cooking with 00:26:29.450 --> 00:26:31.970 Garum. I just add drops of Garum to whatever 00:26:31.970 --> 00:26:35.390 you're doing and being able to do it like this. 00:26:35.470 --> 00:26:37.549 I think it's quite interesting. I wouldn't say 00:26:37.549 --> 00:26:39.970 it's a fake Garum. I would say it's an accelerated 00:26:39.970 --> 00:26:42.150 Garum. It's just like a different way to do it. 00:26:42.630 --> 00:26:48.269 So I was talking about this with Walter and he 00:26:48.269 --> 00:26:51.880 was like, no, no, no, no, no. I'm super... traditional 00:26:51.880 --> 00:26:53.980 japanese you know like i never go out of the 00:26:53.980 --> 00:26:57.299 frame of and i was like but no can't you just 00:26:57.299 --> 00:26:59.619 do that and you know like with a brush put it 00:26:59.619 --> 00:27:02.319 on top of a specific no no no japanese don't 00:27:02.319 --> 00:27:07.099 do that no no no i would do that i respect that 00:27:07.099 --> 00:27:10.980 you know i love his ultra respectful approach 00:27:10.980 --> 00:27:15.400 just you know like keeping the frame inside the 00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:18.700 frame I like that as well, you know, like I'm 00:27:18.700 --> 00:27:22.119 quite the opposite. I like to go out of the frame 00:27:22.119 --> 00:27:28.259 every time I can. 100%. But yeah, I also think 00:27:28.259 --> 00:27:30.980 that's super interesting. You know, like I've 00:27:30.980 --> 00:27:35.599 been discussing recently because, well, this 00:27:35.599 --> 00:27:40.559 year I will be dynamizing the Chef's Innovation. 00:27:41.720 --> 00:27:44.440 community at Basque Culinary Center. So we'll 00:27:44.440 --> 00:27:47.740 be organizing some content and some events and 00:27:47.740 --> 00:27:51.900 some things. And one of the things that we were 00:27:51.900 --> 00:27:57.240 discussing is what tensions are there in innovation. 00:27:57.660 --> 00:28:02.220 You know, like, because this makes it like an 00:28:02.220 --> 00:28:05.279 interesting ground for discussion. Like a very 00:28:05.279 --> 00:28:08.000 obvious tension is innovation versus tradition, 00:28:08.259 --> 00:28:10.039 which is what we're just talking about right 00:28:10.039 --> 00:28:12.769 now. You know, like... And putting, for example, 00:28:12.849 --> 00:28:16.569 someone like Walter to discuss with someone like 00:28:16.569 --> 00:28:20.309 Morimoto, right? Masaharu Morimoto. Yes. You 00:28:20.309 --> 00:28:22.609 know, which is quite the opposite. It's quite 00:28:22.609 --> 00:28:27.269 the disruptive sushi, right? And having that 00:28:27.269 --> 00:28:31.349 discussion and at the end of the day, I think 00:28:31.349 --> 00:28:33.809 even the super traditional chef, they also like 00:28:33.809 --> 00:28:38.319 the super innovative stuff. But just defending 00:28:38.319 --> 00:28:41.660 one position versus the other just generates 00:28:41.660 --> 00:28:45.240 new questions and new interesting ways on how 00:28:45.240 --> 00:28:50.900 to find new breaches and new paths to find new 00:28:50.900 --> 00:28:55.279 ways to innovate, to create new things. Or another 00:28:55.279 --> 00:29:01.640 example could be being territory -driven. grounded 00:29:01.640 --> 00:29:05.940 and anchored versus like a more global approach 00:29:05.940 --> 00:29:09.400 and you know like using whatever combo in dubai 00:29:09.400 --> 00:29:11.440 for example you know like our things are that 00:29:11.440 --> 00:29:15.839 don't grow there but that are still super interesting 00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:18.660 and why not you know like but i think that are 00:29:18.660 --> 00:29:20.759 different approaches and they feed each other 00:29:20.759 --> 00:29:23.680 and they can nourish each other but the the discussion 00:29:23.680 --> 00:29:27.079 itself is super interesting yeah absolutely absolutely 00:29:27.079 --> 00:29:30.619 it's like i think it's kind of depending on I 00:29:30.619 --> 00:29:32.279 think it's important to appreciate both sides, 00:29:32.359 --> 00:29:34.740 you know. I definitely always appreciate, unlike 00:29:34.740 --> 00:29:38.930 you, I... go out of the frame more often than 00:29:38.930 --> 00:29:41.309 not but i've always really appreciated people 00:29:41.309 --> 00:29:44.210 like admired people also who are like very they 00:29:44.210 --> 00:29:47.009 have their thing and they get really deep into 00:29:47.009 --> 00:29:50.650 it you know and also like if they if they stick 00:29:50.650 --> 00:29:53.230 to like their world what they've chosen for themselves 00:29:53.230 --> 00:29:55.569 like they will delve much deeper into it than 00:29:55.569 --> 00:29:58.009 i ever will i don't know with whether i'm just 00:29:58.009 --> 00:30:00.289 a little bit too autistic to do that like i am 00:30:00.289 --> 00:30:03.210 like all over the place i remember in japan like 00:30:03.210 --> 00:30:06.299 you know like it's very common that For example, 00:30:06.299 --> 00:30:09.480 here you go to Segovia or whatever, where they're 00:30:09.480 --> 00:30:12.299 cooking like charcoal ovens, where they do like 00:30:12.299 --> 00:30:14.240 a whole piece of meat and they come outside and 00:30:14.240 --> 00:30:16.559 they show you like the piece of whatever, of 00:30:16.559 --> 00:30:18.680 a lamb or a suckling pig. And everybody's like, 00:30:18.839 --> 00:30:22.079 whoa. And you would see the same thing in Japan, 00:30:22.140 --> 00:30:24.900 but they come with a pot and they open it and 00:30:24.900 --> 00:30:27.880 there is rice. And everybody's like, oh. And 00:30:27.880 --> 00:30:30.839 I feel so extremely ignorant. being there and 00:30:30.839 --> 00:30:33.460 not getting it, you know, like, because I do 00:30:33.460 --> 00:30:35.839 appreciate rice, you know, like, and I do see 00:30:35.839 --> 00:30:38.420 that's beautiful and everything, but I'm not 00:30:38.420 --> 00:30:42.160 striped by it. And there genuinely are. And that's, 00:30:42.160 --> 00:30:44.400 that's one of those things I, as you were saying, 00:30:44.500 --> 00:30:47.240 like being someone who sticks into a tradition 00:30:47.240 --> 00:30:50.079 and goes all the way through. If you're doing 00:30:50.079 --> 00:30:53.099 sushi rice every day for the last 30 years, you 00:30:53.099 --> 00:30:57.150 get a. a depth and an understanding uh there 00:30:57.150 --> 00:31:01.009 that that we will never understand as as normal 00:31:01.009 --> 00:31:04.990 mortals like both has its like its ups and downs 00:31:04.990 --> 00:31:08.549 you know but i think appreciating both sides 00:31:08.549 --> 00:31:12.630 and having an um open discussion for like about 00:31:12.630 --> 00:31:15.369 it you know and just looking at everything from 00:31:15.369 --> 00:31:18.890 a neutral perspective and not condemning either 00:31:18.890 --> 00:31:21.190 one just being like oh this is the way no this 00:31:21.190 --> 00:31:24.359 is the way you know it gives you a lot of insight. 00:31:24.599 --> 00:31:26.200 It's what we talked about the other day. It's 00:31:26.200 --> 00:31:28.099 kind of like if you just don't take it so seriously 00:31:28.099 --> 00:31:32.240 and you listen to somebody with a different perspective 00:31:32.240 --> 00:31:35.920 than your own open -mindedly, you will always, 00:31:35.980 --> 00:31:37.900 pretty much always take something away from it.