WEBVTT 00:00:03.989 --> 00:00:07.089 Hi, everyone. Welcome to Pot Luck Food Talks, 00:00:07.089 --> 00:00:09.570 the show where we talk food and kitchens from 00:00:09.570 --> 00:00:12.310 a cook's point of view. We're recording live 00:00:12.310 --> 00:00:15.050 from a place where motivation is praised, questioned, 00:00:15.269 --> 00:00:18.589 and quietly exploited. My name is Cedric Fromm, 00:00:18.670 --> 00:00:22.070 and I'm here with Philip Brickman. Neither of 00:00:22.070 --> 00:00:24.850 us is particularly convinced that wanting more 00:00:24.850 --> 00:00:27.390 is always a good thing. Today, we're talking 00:00:27.390 --> 00:00:31.730 motivation, why we push. what we tell ourselves 00:00:31.730 --> 00:00:35.509 it's for, and how the same drive that builds 00:00:35.509 --> 00:00:39.170 great kitchens can also grind people down if 00:00:39.170 --> 00:00:55.509 no one stops to ask why. But first... So, Phil, 00:00:55.590 --> 00:00:58.340 how would you describe... Motivation. If you 00:00:58.340 --> 00:01:00.920 had to say like a definition for me, motivation 00:01:00.920 --> 00:01:06.700 is, what would you say? Motivation is the spark 00:01:06.700 --> 00:01:11.420 inside of you that ignites the flame of your 00:01:11.420 --> 00:01:15.439 furnace, your interior furnace that drives you 00:01:15.439 --> 00:01:18.980 forward in your life. Your interior tiger. Something 00:01:18.980 --> 00:01:22.959 like that. Rawr. Yes. No, it's interesting because 00:01:22.959 --> 00:01:25.939 what you say matches completely with what I would 00:01:25.939 --> 00:01:29.879 say. Motivation are stories we tell ourselves 00:01:29.879 --> 00:01:34.099 and we believe in. And for me, this works on 00:01:34.099 --> 00:01:37.120 different levels. At the micro level, which is 00:01:37.120 --> 00:01:40.980 a person, and you have this thing that you believe 00:01:40.980 --> 00:01:44.099 that drives you to do whatever. And also at the 00:01:44.099 --> 00:01:49.099 macro level, for example, wars. In order for 00:01:49.099 --> 00:01:52.879 wars to exist, there has to be narratives. And 00:01:52.879 --> 00:01:55.900 the narratives have to be consistent. On both 00:01:55.900 --> 00:01:58.540 sides. Both sides are telling themselves a story 00:01:58.540 --> 00:02:01.180 they believe in, and that's why they're fighting 00:02:01.180 --> 00:02:04.359 for, right? Yes. And, you know, especially like 00:02:04.359 --> 00:02:07.840 in very demanding environments like high -end 00:02:07.840 --> 00:02:11.000 kitchens, for example, or let's say the Olympics 00:02:11.000 --> 00:02:14.060 or whatever, it's impossible without motivation, 00:02:14.300 --> 00:02:18.300 like self -motivation, like having very clear 00:02:18.300 --> 00:02:22.060 what's your story, why are you doing this, for 00:02:22.060 --> 00:02:24.650 what reason, as soon. As there is a mismatch 00:02:24.650 --> 00:02:27.310 with the story you're telling yourself and what's 00:02:27.310 --> 00:02:29.210 going on around, you don't want to be there. 00:02:29.289 --> 00:02:32.229 You're unhappy. You're not working. People are 00:02:32.229 --> 00:02:36.210 mad at you because you're not dancing to the 00:02:36.210 --> 00:02:38.610 same music, you know? What are your thoughts 00:02:38.610 --> 00:02:41.169 about that? I mean, like, motivation is a weird 00:02:41.169 --> 00:02:43.210 thing, man. Like, I've always struggled with 00:02:43.210 --> 00:02:46.110 the idea of motivation because for me, my motivation 00:02:46.110 --> 00:02:48.389 of, like, the stuff that I do, it comes, like, 00:02:48.409 --> 00:02:52.430 very naturally, right? And I'm very, very, what? 00:02:52.729 --> 00:02:55.449 So sorry to interrupt you because I remember, 00:02:55.569 --> 00:02:57.990 you know, when I met you, you were like 17 years 00:02:57.990 --> 00:03:01.349 old. And I remember we were once having like 00:03:01.349 --> 00:03:05.590 a similar conversation and you were saying, because 00:03:05.590 --> 00:03:08.030 at that place we were working like 16 hours a 00:03:08.030 --> 00:03:10.849 day. Yes. And you were saying like, you know, 00:03:10.889 --> 00:03:13.610 like the thing is, this is what I do, you know, 00:03:13.629 --> 00:03:17.409 like, and I come here. So I'm a chef, I'm a cook. 00:03:17.550 --> 00:03:19.349 I come here and I cook and this is what I do. 00:03:19.389 --> 00:03:21.780 So I come here and I spend. all day here and 00:03:21.780 --> 00:03:24.259 for me this is you know like the way i take it 00:03:24.259 --> 00:03:27.800 and that was very interesting for me yeah yeah 00:03:27.800 --> 00:03:33.180 how how things change no for sure i mean like 00:03:33.180 --> 00:03:36.039 i am immensely grateful that i do something in 00:03:36.039 --> 00:03:38.740 my life that i don't need to like motivate myself 00:03:38.740 --> 00:03:43.259 for necessarily like i i go to work and i work 00:03:43.259 --> 00:03:47.020 a lot of hours and i get such immense enjoyment 00:03:47.020 --> 00:03:50.740 out of what i do right not necessarily What I 00:03:50.740 --> 00:03:53.120 do, like, oh, I love my job, you know, because 00:03:53.120 --> 00:03:56.159 I can be fucking pissed off at my job, like the 00:03:56.159 --> 00:04:00.039 people and the customers and the operations and 00:04:00.039 --> 00:04:04.719 the logistics and stuff. But food, food is just 00:04:04.719 --> 00:04:09.319 and cooking is just it's just magical. It's magical. 00:04:09.479 --> 00:04:11.960 It's like it's heavenly. It's like for me, there's 00:04:11.960 --> 00:04:14.740 nothing that compares to it. Right. And I would 00:04:14.740 --> 00:04:17.420 imagine that a musician feels the same way about 00:04:17.420 --> 00:04:20.670 music. They're like, man, I make music. There's 00:04:20.670 --> 00:04:23.310 a couple of things in life that have this, for 00:04:23.310 --> 00:04:28.209 me anyway, this aspect of almost godlike aesthetic. 00:04:28.829 --> 00:04:32.089 And cooking for me is one of those things. And 00:04:32.089 --> 00:04:36.430 it's never the same. It's always different. You're 00:04:36.430 --> 00:04:39.149 working with nature. You're working with your 00:04:39.149 --> 00:04:42.610 hands. You get these raw fucking ingredients. 00:04:42.829 --> 00:04:46.699 You do something to them. And something else 00:04:46.699 --> 00:04:49.819 comes out and then it like disappears straight 00:04:49.819 --> 00:04:53.879 away. It's fucking bananas, right? It's so bizarre. 00:04:54.279 --> 00:04:56.560 And then you start all over again. It's not like 00:04:56.560 --> 00:04:58.439 you paint a painting and then it's there, right? 00:04:58.920 --> 00:05:01.040 You like make something, you put all this effort 00:05:01.040 --> 00:05:03.639 into it and then you basically, you send it off 00:05:03.639 --> 00:05:07.060 and somebody like eats it and like either they 00:05:07.060 --> 00:05:09.000 like really like it or they like, they're like 00:05:09.000 --> 00:05:10.959 whatever, or maybe they hate it, you know, but 00:05:10.959 --> 00:05:14.730 it's, it's, it's gone. either way it will end 00:05:14.730 --> 00:05:19.189 up in the toilet next day hopefully yes 100 and 00:05:19.189 --> 00:05:23.189 like that i never get tired of you know like 00:05:23.189 --> 00:05:26.490 before christmas i took some holidays over christmas 00:05:26.490 --> 00:05:28.870 which was a big luxury for me it was wonderful 00:05:28.870 --> 00:05:31.449 and before that i was a bit burned out and i 00:05:31.449 --> 00:05:33.990 was really sick i was i felt really uncreative 00:05:33.990 --> 00:05:37.550 i felt really kind of like mentally stuck and 00:05:38.110 --> 00:05:40.009 i was like man i really don't feel like cooking 00:05:40.009 --> 00:05:41.870 anymore i was trying to make new dishes and i 00:05:41.870 --> 00:05:43.670 was like i can't come up with anything i hate 00:05:43.670 --> 00:05:45.750 everything that i make i hate all of you guys 00:05:45.750 --> 00:05:48.709 like everybody around me you know and i was like 00:05:48.709 --> 00:05:51.250 i just don't want to do this anymore it took 00:05:51.250 --> 00:05:54.089 i think three four days three four days of me 00:05:54.089 --> 00:05:57.129 not being in a kitchen that i was like i sat 00:05:57.129 --> 00:05:59.829 down i had like a calm evening i put on a cooking 00:05:59.829 --> 00:06:02.629 show I watched it and I was like, I was watching 00:06:02.629 --> 00:06:04.189 the people cook and I was like, man, cooking 00:06:04.189 --> 00:06:07.949 is fucking amazing. It's so fucking cool. And 00:06:07.949 --> 00:06:10.509 so I'm incredibly grateful for that because not 00:06:10.509 --> 00:06:12.810 every, not to say that only cooking has this. 00:06:12.889 --> 00:06:15.129 And this is like the monk mentality. I really 00:06:15.129 --> 00:06:17.529 believe that you can find this in anything. I'm 00:06:17.529 --> 00:06:20.730 just not open -minded enough. Like I have a very 00:06:20.730 --> 00:06:23.209 hard time doing something else. I can't, for 00:06:23.209 --> 00:06:25.310 example, I can very difficult, like motivate 00:06:25.310 --> 00:06:27.930 myself to do like. computer work for two hours, 00:06:27.970 --> 00:06:30.290 right? 16 hours, kitchen, cooking, no problem. 00:06:30.730 --> 00:06:34.149 No problem. I'll smash it out. Two hours, like 00:06:34.149 --> 00:06:38.949 Excel, dead. Yeah. But like, I really believed 00:06:38.949 --> 00:06:41.529 it. But how do you deal with it? If you have 00:06:41.529 --> 00:06:46.889 to do two hours Excel sheets, like, how do you 00:06:46.889 --> 00:06:51.529 deal with it? Do you... Well, I'm a grown -up, 00:06:51.670 --> 00:06:53.310 you know. Take a lot of coffee or, you know. 00:06:54.339 --> 00:06:56.639 Well, I'm a grown -up. No, like, you get enjoyment 00:06:56.639 --> 00:06:58.959 out of, like, doing it well anyway, right? Like, 00:06:59.060 --> 00:07:00.980 you get enjoyment out of different things, out 00:07:00.980 --> 00:07:02.759 of making it nice, out of making it efficient, 00:07:02.860 --> 00:07:04.660 out of getting the blah, you know? Making it 00:07:04.660 --> 00:07:06.819 make sense, you know, you write a schedule, it's 00:07:06.819 --> 00:07:09.360 like it works perfectly, like, whatever it is, 00:07:09.439 --> 00:07:11.839 you know? Just like, and that's what I mean, 00:07:11.860 --> 00:07:14.600 just like being a dishwasher, right? So much 00:07:14.600 --> 00:07:18.019 enjoyment in working in a dishwasher pit. Yeah. 00:07:18.430 --> 00:07:21.670 If you find it. It's fun. Yeah. And it's physical 00:07:21.670 --> 00:07:24.069 and you're moving and you're, you know, like, 00:07:24.129 --> 00:07:29.629 I think, I mean, if it would be well paid, I 00:07:29.629 --> 00:07:34.350 prefer a thousand times being a dishwasher before 00:07:34.350 --> 00:07:37.569 an Excel sheet maniac, you know? Oh, yeah. A 00:07:37.569 --> 00:07:39.589 hundred percent. A hundred percent. If it was 00:07:39.589 --> 00:07:42.050 the same pay, easy. But there's a very underrated 00:07:42.050 --> 00:07:44.629 aspect to cleaning things, I think. Like sweeping 00:07:44.629 --> 00:07:47.519 the floor, you know? The monk mentality, sweep 00:07:47.519 --> 00:07:50.560 the floor. But sweep it, you know, like put yourself 00:07:50.560 --> 00:07:53.139 into what you're doing. I really feel like you 00:07:53.139 --> 00:07:55.740 can find the enjoyment in things, in everything 00:07:55.740 --> 00:07:57.620 that you do. And that's like a little bit this 00:07:57.620 --> 00:08:00.879 sort of like kung fu mentality, right? People 00:08:00.879 --> 00:08:02.779 always say like, oh, it's like Zen mentality. 00:08:02.980 --> 00:08:05.759 It has nothing to do with Zen because if you 00:08:05.759 --> 00:08:08.139 start looking into Zen, it's like, you know. 00:08:08.480 --> 00:08:12.199 Nothing, literally. Absolutely, yeah. But like 00:08:12.199 --> 00:08:14.160 Kung Fu, you know, like what Kung Fu actually 00:08:14.160 --> 00:08:16.199 means, like Kung Fu tea, you know, making the 00:08:16.199 --> 00:08:18.339 tea, but putting yourself into making it, you 00:08:18.339 --> 00:08:21.759 know, it can be anything. Imagine you could put 00:08:21.759 --> 00:08:25.600 as much energy and attention into everything 00:08:25.600 --> 00:08:27.620 that you're doing, that you do with something 00:08:27.620 --> 00:08:29.600 that you're passionate about. Imagine you're 00:08:29.600 --> 00:08:32.799 really enjoying making a roast chicken and you 00:08:32.799 --> 00:08:35.080 take the chicken, you unpack it, you truss it, 00:08:35.159 --> 00:08:38.179 you trim it, you tie it by skill involved, right? 00:08:38.840 --> 00:08:41.840 You know, you rub it with butter, you salt it, 00:08:41.879 --> 00:08:45.940 you roast it, you turn it. And at the end, because 00:08:45.940 --> 00:08:48.200 you put all this like attention into it, you 00:08:48.200 --> 00:08:51.659 have this beautifully cooked roast chicken that 00:08:51.659 --> 00:08:54.179 you sit down and you enjoy. Now imagine you do 00:08:54.179 --> 00:08:55.980 that with everything and not just like the special 00:08:55.980 --> 00:08:58.440 things, but like brushing your teeth, ironing 00:08:58.440 --> 00:09:01.259 your clothes, making the bed, going outside for 00:09:01.259 --> 00:09:04.039 a walk, going to the bus, you know. It's possible. 00:09:04.200 --> 00:09:06.919 It's a very abstract idea. No, no, no. I completely 00:09:06.919 --> 00:09:08.879 get it. I really believe in that. Yeah, there 00:09:08.879 --> 00:09:12.580 is this Buddhist concept called Samadhi, which 00:09:12.580 --> 00:09:17.179 is like losing yourself in the activity you're 00:09:17.179 --> 00:09:20.600 doing. And yeah, it's kind of like an ecstasy 00:09:20.600 --> 00:09:24.100 state of pleasure by being overly concentrated 00:09:24.100 --> 00:09:27.279 in a single thing. It's amazing because I feel 00:09:27.279 --> 00:09:30.139 like there's no limit to it. If you lose yourself, 00:09:30.279 --> 00:09:32.039 you let go and you lose yourself. And exactly 00:09:32.039 --> 00:09:33.899 that, what you said, you know, it's like when 00:09:33.899 --> 00:09:36.340 you're drinking tea, you know, you can find so 00:09:36.340 --> 00:09:39.399 much like, and suddenly you start like seeing 00:09:39.399 --> 00:09:41.500 the textures of the cup. You see how it feels. 00:09:41.659 --> 00:09:45.179 You start like noticing the fluidity of your 00:09:45.179 --> 00:09:47.600 movement, right? How you pick it up, how your 00:09:47.600 --> 00:09:49.860 fingers feel on the cup, like all of that sort 00:09:49.860 --> 00:09:51.799 of stuff. The like little bit of like airbrush 00:09:51.799 --> 00:09:53.860 when you like move it towards you against your 00:09:53.860 --> 00:09:58.360 skin. It's infinite. It's crazy. And, you know, 00:09:58.399 --> 00:10:00.259 have you ever had this thing in the kitchen where 00:10:00.259 --> 00:10:02.980 you're working on a section and you feel like 00:10:02.980 --> 00:10:05.600 you're in flow state and you're just like turning 00:10:05.600 --> 00:10:07.679 back and forth, you're bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, 00:10:07.700 --> 00:10:09.759 bop, bop, you know? And you're not thinking, 00:10:09.820 --> 00:10:11.759 you're just in a flow state. Absolutely. And 00:10:11.759 --> 00:10:16.480 yeah, like somebody tells you, whatever, can 00:10:16.480 --> 00:10:19.860 you pass me? the sauce bottle of whatever and 00:10:19.860 --> 00:10:21.919 and you know it's you know exactly what it is 00:10:21.919 --> 00:10:23.539 you take it without looking you open the fridge 00:10:23.539 --> 00:10:25.720 take it out put it there and continue doing what 00:10:25.720 --> 00:10:29.360 you were doing and you're just flowing yeah that's 00:10:29.360 --> 00:10:31.740 amazing uh i haven't had that for a long while 00:10:31.740 --> 00:10:34.279 you're thinking too much that's what a kung fu 00:10:34.279 --> 00:10:37.399 master would say what would you say if you have 00:10:37.399 --> 00:10:40.580 to think that like what actually drives most 00:10:40.580 --> 00:10:43.960 chefs you know i think this is i mean this is 00:10:43.960 --> 00:10:46.700 just my assumption right but i think nowadays 00:10:46.700 --> 00:10:50.379 we have this image of a successful chef you know 00:10:50.379 --> 00:10:53.559 a chef like people like chefs people think chefs 00:10:53.559 --> 00:10:57.220 are cool right because face it they are you know 00:10:57.220 --> 00:11:00.179 being a chef is pretty cool being able to cook 00:11:00.179 --> 00:11:03.259 food is pretty cool and i think too many people 00:11:03.259 --> 00:11:06.740 are too worried about being that they lose themselves 00:11:06.740 --> 00:11:10.259 in the superficial and they lose the substantial 00:11:11.000 --> 00:11:15.539 right instead of losing themselves in in the 00:11:15.539 --> 00:11:18.720 process and what they're doing in what actually 00:11:18.720 --> 00:11:22.360 makes the craft special which is the process 00:11:22.360 --> 00:11:25.639 and the ingredient and your skill you're like 00:11:25.639 --> 00:11:28.279 a catalyst catalyst what you call a catalyst 00:11:28.279 --> 00:11:32.080 yeah for things they like go through you to become 00:11:32.080 --> 00:11:34.500 something else and then also very very importantly 00:11:34.500 --> 00:11:38.539 somebody else enjoying what you did right like 00:11:38.539 --> 00:11:40.750 the effect that it has on them As you can tell, 00:11:40.850 --> 00:11:42.529 none of those things have anything to do with 00:11:42.529 --> 00:11:47.350 you and your own ego, right? So I feel like too 00:11:47.350 --> 00:11:49.210 many people are too worried about themselves 00:11:49.210 --> 00:11:52.110 and their ego and how they seem to other people 00:11:52.110 --> 00:11:54.409 and the image that they create for themselves. 00:11:54.629 --> 00:11:56.149 And I get it, you know, that's how you do business. 00:11:56.230 --> 00:11:58.090 That's how you market yourself. That's how you 00:11:58.090 --> 00:12:00.049 probably get a sponsor for your restaurant. It's, 00:12:00.129 --> 00:12:04.470 you know, not to be neglected, right? But if 00:12:04.470 --> 00:12:07.710 we're talking about like really sort of the essence 00:12:07.710 --> 00:12:12.600 of it. I think people underestimate it. They're 00:12:12.600 --> 00:12:14.840 too worried also when it comes to food about 00:12:14.840 --> 00:12:17.980 what things seem, what they look like, the story 00:12:17.980 --> 00:12:20.179 that they have. I don't think I know a lot of 00:12:20.179 --> 00:12:25.340 chefs that really chase the sensation of you 00:12:25.340 --> 00:12:27.639 put something in your mouth and everything stops 00:12:27.639 --> 00:12:30.600 and you stop a moment and you close your eyes 00:12:30.600 --> 00:12:32.980 and you think to yourself, oh my God, this is 00:12:32.980 --> 00:12:36.159 so good. Like we've talked about this before. 00:12:36.639 --> 00:12:38.440 Like, when was the last time that you had that 00:12:38.440 --> 00:12:40.600 moment, that you, like, ate something, you stopped, 00:12:40.740 --> 00:12:43.019 and you were sort of like, this is so incredible? 00:12:43.480 --> 00:12:47.299 First thing that comes to my mind is that Noma 00:12:47.299 --> 00:12:50.899 kind of gargiyu that we had. Oh, yeah, that was 00:12:50.899 --> 00:12:54.519 good. The sauce, yeah. That was really good, 00:12:54.620 --> 00:12:58.559 yeah. I had some of those moments, the deserda, 00:12:58.580 --> 00:13:01.740 the cevari, you know, like, that was like, what 00:13:01.740 --> 00:13:04.200 the fuck is going on here? And that's a good 00:13:04.200 --> 00:13:06.740 example, because that's so simple, right? So 00:13:06.740 --> 00:13:10.139 simple, you know. But I think that's exactly 00:13:10.139 --> 00:13:12.360 what, like, I feel like if more chefs would focus 00:13:12.360 --> 00:13:16.100 on that, we'd have a fucking amazing lineup of 00:13:16.100 --> 00:13:18.139 chefs, you know. Now going to the dark side, 00:13:18.440 --> 00:13:21.440 what motivates an abuser in a kitchen? Have you 00:13:21.440 --> 00:13:23.600 ever thought about that? Like this crazy chef 00:13:23.600 --> 00:13:26.440 that starts screaming, throwing things, you know, 00:13:26.440 --> 00:13:30.620 like even going physical or personal. What do 00:13:30.620 --> 00:13:33.399 you think is their motivation? What drives them? 00:13:33.720 --> 00:13:37.059 I think it's, unfortunately, In a lot of cases, 00:13:37.139 --> 00:13:41.019 just the fact of the acceptance. I feel like 00:13:41.019 --> 00:13:44.299 there's a lot of people that if you give them 00:13:44.299 --> 00:13:46.399 a uniform, they'll raise the beating stick really 00:13:46.399 --> 00:13:49.679 quick. They'll jump to it. If you make them the 00:13:49.679 --> 00:13:52.320 warden of the prison, they will start beating 00:13:52.320 --> 00:13:55.139 the prisoners. Oh, yeah. You know the experiment, 00:13:55.299 --> 00:13:58.440 right? Of course, yeah. Yeah, that's a fact. 00:13:58.830 --> 00:14:01.169 I think there are many things on the table. Like 00:14:01.169 --> 00:14:05.330 on one side is that there are no mechanisms in 00:14:05.330 --> 00:14:08.409 kitchens for these things to be corrected. You 00:14:08.409 --> 00:14:11.649 know, that's why they happen. Chefs don't have 00:14:11.649 --> 00:14:17.029 the tools to have a conversation or implement 00:14:17.029 --> 00:14:20.889 a process of correction for whatever that thing 00:14:20.889 --> 00:14:26.190 that made him so crazy to correct that. more 00:14:26.190 --> 00:14:30.389 sober and productive way or constructive. And 00:14:30.389 --> 00:14:33.049 since they don't have those tools, at the same 00:14:33.049 --> 00:14:40.049 time, I think it's 100 % ego. You can't be calm 00:14:40.049 --> 00:14:43.750 if you don't detach yourself from ego. You have 00:14:43.750 --> 00:14:48.029 to let go, you know, and that on one side. And 00:14:48.029 --> 00:14:52.490 also, I'm pretty sure somebody abused them first. 00:14:52.750 --> 00:14:55.620 Of course, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. It's like 00:14:55.620 --> 00:14:59.980 rapists. A lot of rapists, if you ask them, they 00:14:59.980 --> 00:15:04.679 were abused themselves. So it's like a vicious 00:15:04.679 --> 00:15:10.299 circle, the circle of destruction. At the end 00:15:10.299 --> 00:15:15.000 of the day, it's psychological issues that haven't 00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:18.340 been solved. That's my take on that. Yeah, I 00:15:18.340 --> 00:15:21.659 think you're probably right. And fear. 100 % 00:15:21.659 --> 00:15:25.570 fear. Fear. Of the abuser, that the abuser has 00:15:25.570 --> 00:15:30.490 fear? 100%. Yeah, I think they're afraid of not 00:15:30.490 --> 00:15:34.990 having control or losing their status of being... 00:15:34.990 --> 00:15:37.629 Looking stupid. I have the biggest dick in the 00:15:37.629 --> 00:15:41.470 room and I don't want everybody to think the 00:15:41.470 --> 00:15:44.090 opposite, you know? Yeah, the fear of showing 00:15:44.090 --> 00:15:47.350 vulnerability, right? Or weakness. Yeah, yeah. 00:15:47.960 --> 00:15:50.600 of being like, oh, I was wrong, you were actually 00:15:50.600 --> 00:15:53.000 right, you know, or something like that. And 00:15:53.000 --> 00:15:55.639 since we're talking about motivation, I'm 100 00:15:55.639 --> 00:16:00.700 % sure that an abuser always has a story to justify 00:16:00.700 --> 00:16:04.639 himself. You know, like, always will be, but 00:16:04.639 --> 00:16:07.759 I'm doing this for the good of everyone. You 00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:09.740 know, like, or, you know, there's always this 00:16:09.740 --> 00:16:12.159 rationalization of what they're doing and justification 00:16:12.159 --> 00:16:14.700 because it's the best for everyone. It's the 00:16:14.700 --> 00:16:16.740 best for the restaurant and the customer and, 00:16:16.820 --> 00:16:19.740 you know, like, I think that's also like a condition 00:16:19.740 --> 00:16:24.740 for abuse to happen. I think you are 100 % correct. 00:16:24.940 --> 00:16:27.860 And these like stories of putting things into 00:16:27.860 --> 00:16:31.019 a perspective that is palatable. to the person, 00:16:31.120 --> 00:16:35.059 right? That makes them be able to digest what's 00:16:35.059 --> 00:16:37.080 happening, right? It's sort of like, oh, I'm 00:16:37.080 --> 00:16:40.299 shaping in my own head the circumstances and 00:16:40.299 --> 00:16:42.519 the truth. I'm shaping it in a way where it kind 00:16:42.519 --> 00:16:45.559 of fits into like what suits me. And so I can 00:16:45.559 --> 00:16:47.379 like look at myself in the mirror later, right? 00:16:47.740 --> 00:16:50.200 But here's an interesting question, right? Because 00:16:50.200 --> 00:16:53.379 you've probably a few times in your career and 00:16:53.379 --> 00:16:55.240 in your general life have been in a situation 00:16:55.240 --> 00:16:57.000 where somebody's telling you a story and they're 00:16:57.000 --> 00:16:58.759 like, no, it's because of this, because of that. 00:16:59.419 --> 00:17:00.960 And you're sort of like, this is what you're 00:17:00.960 --> 00:17:03.759 telling yourself. You're telling yourself this 00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:06.779 right now. And as long as you will keep telling 00:17:06.779 --> 00:17:08.700 yourself this, you will believe it. You have 00:17:08.700 --> 00:17:12.900 to stop. Right? Yeah, absolutely. Or also in 00:17:12.900 --> 00:17:17.559 interpersonal relationships, be it a friend or 00:17:17.559 --> 00:17:19.640 a girlfriend or someone that you're assuming 00:17:19.640 --> 00:17:23.980 the position of the other person. And sometimes 00:17:23.980 --> 00:17:26.380 you have to just ask, but did the other person 00:17:26.380 --> 00:17:30.019 tell you anything about that? no so and why are 00:17:30.019 --> 00:17:32.599 you thinking this i don't know you know like 00:17:32.599 --> 00:17:38.619 and in maybe most cases it's all mental noise 00:17:38.619 --> 00:17:41.259 you know like there's nothing going on absolutely 00:17:41.259 --> 00:17:43.880 yeah and it's crazy because you can sometimes 00:17:43.880 --> 00:17:45.799 really tell that people are telling themselves 00:17:45.799 --> 00:17:48.660 a story to make everything seem okay but so here's 00:17:48.660 --> 00:17:50.420 the interesting part which is something that 00:17:50.420 --> 00:17:53.799 i'm asking myself also lately which is um which 00:17:53.799 --> 00:17:56.279 story are we telling ourselves which story are 00:17:56.279 --> 00:17:59.019 you telling yourself right now at the moment 00:17:59.019 --> 00:18:01.940 to make something more palatable to make something 00:18:01.940 --> 00:18:05.460 make sense to make something you know be more 00:18:05.460 --> 00:18:09.539 digestible for yourself because i i really believe 00:18:09.539 --> 00:18:12.380 that we all do it to a certain extent and i think 00:18:12.380 --> 00:18:14.960 that this sort of like letting go of an ego and 00:18:14.960 --> 00:18:19.230 this self -reflection leading to self -improvement 00:18:19.230 --> 00:18:22.269 starts with that to a certain extent how was 00:18:22.269 --> 00:18:24.250 this quote you once shared i thought that was 00:18:24.250 --> 00:18:26.329 pretty cool i don't remember how it was it was 00:18:26.329 --> 00:18:28.470 something like seeing yourself as the villain 00:18:28.470 --> 00:18:30.450 of the story or something like that can you can 00:18:30.450 --> 00:18:33.289 you remember that quote seeing yourself as the 00:18:33.289 --> 00:18:37.450 villain of the story yeah like no you you don't 00:18:37.450 --> 00:18:40.230 really oh yeah yeah what was it it was something 00:18:40.230 --> 00:18:43.509 like like yeah like there's always a villain 00:18:43.509 --> 00:18:47.160 in a story but You become, I don't know what, 00:18:47.380 --> 00:18:50.420 in the moment, you realize you are the villain 00:18:50.420 --> 00:18:52.839 of the story or something like that. I'll say 00:18:52.839 --> 00:18:55.160 a different quote that has to do with motivation, 00:18:55.279 --> 00:18:57.859 you know, because it's often very easy to be 00:18:57.859 --> 00:19:00.900 motivated in front of other people, right? Because 00:19:00.900 --> 00:19:04.980 it's, to a certain extent, we're chasing the 00:19:04.980 --> 00:19:07.859 approval of others. and the image that we try 00:19:07.859 --> 00:19:11.180 to portray to the world right so it's easier 00:19:11.180 --> 00:19:14.099 for us to be motivated and eager when there's 00:19:14.099 --> 00:19:16.259 an audience right whether it's our co -workers 00:19:16.259 --> 00:19:20.619 or whoever the fuck right but is it actually 00:19:20.619 --> 00:19:23.079 the improvement of yourself and the skill that 00:19:23.079 --> 00:19:26.660 you're after or is it just the image that you're 00:19:26.660 --> 00:19:30.359 trying to create and so the quote that i want 00:19:30.359 --> 00:19:36.579 to share that i'm trying to tell myself um as 00:19:36.579 --> 00:19:41.779 of late is you're only as good as the person 00:19:41.779 --> 00:19:46.279 that you are when nobody's watching yeah i know 00:19:46.279 --> 00:19:48.779 that one what would you say about motivating 00:19:48.779 --> 00:19:52.519 others which would be your your take on that 00:19:52.519 --> 00:19:57.140 i think that nothing is achieved by tearing people 00:19:57.140 --> 00:20:00.420 down i don't believe in that anymore i think 00:20:00.420 --> 00:20:02.819 you should lift people up whether they you should 00:20:02.819 --> 00:20:06.740 at least attempt to if they do like If they want 00:20:06.740 --> 00:20:10.099 to, they do. And you have something to share 00:20:10.099 --> 00:20:12.220 with them that makes them improve, they will. 00:20:14.180 --> 00:20:18.559 But I think that we need to move away from tearing 00:20:18.559 --> 00:20:20.579 people down because there's nothing gained by 00:20:20.579 --> 00:20:23.799 that. It's inevitable that your energy is contagious. 00:20:24.380 --> 00:20:30.920 So just screaming or cursing or hitting the wall, 00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:34.630 that generates an energy. in the environment. 00:20:35.009 --> 00:20:38.390 Same as the opposite, you know, like coming with, 00:20:38.390 --> 00:20:43.950 you know, with a positive energy and whatever, 00:20:44.170 --> 00:20:46.750 moving things and making things move. That's 00:20:46.750 --> 00:20:50.069 also contagious. It's just every single person's 00:20:50.069 --> 00:20:50.970 choice what to do.