WEBVTT 00:00:03.829 --> 00:00:06.790 Hi, everyone. Welcome to Pot Luck Food Talks, 00:00:06.790 --> 00:00:09.310 the show where we talk about food and kitchens 00:00:09.310 --> 00:00:12.029 from a cook's point of view. We're recording 00:00:12.029 --> 00:00:16.910 live from Arab Emirates. My name is Eric Estrada, 00:00:17.070 --> 00:00:19.710 and I'm here with my friend, Philip Kaufman. 00:00:19.890 --> 00:00:23.289 And today we're going to talk about trash. But 00:00:23.289 --> 00:00:26.210 first, you're listening to Heritage Radio Network. 00:00:31.629 --> 00:00:33.649 We're talking about trash. I didn't realize we 00:00:33.649 --> 00:00:36.310 were going to do an episode on Tim Rauer. Can 00:00:36.310 --> 00:00:39.350 you remember the first time you turned waste 00:00:39.350 --> 00:00:43.030 into a dish that surprised yourself? Not me personally, 00:00:43.149 --> 00:00:44.890 but you know what I remember, what I was really 00:00:44.890 --> 00:00:47.950 cool? You remember this fond barigoul at Mago? 00:00:48.090 --> 00:00:52.890 Ah, yeah, that was like a cool fond, a cool sauce. 00:00:53.090 --> 00:00:57.149 Yeah, like a veggie demi -glace sort of, or like 00:00:57.149 --> 00:01:00.170 a root vegetable demi -glace, something like 00:01:00.170 --> 00:01:03.060 that, right? I mean, it was when we reduced it. 00:01:03.159 --> 00:01:06.939 It was, more than anything, a very extremely 00:01:06.939 --> 00:01:12.579 nice vegetable stock. Almost like a nage. Probably 00:01:12.579 --> 00:01:14.939 the nicest vegetable stock since today that I've 00:01:14.939 --> 00:01:17.200 ever tried. For sure. I've made it a couple of 00:01:17.200 --> 00:01:22.299 times at home also. The clue there was the mix 00:01:22.299 --> 00:01:24.519 of vegetables, right? If you had too much of 00:01:24.519 --> 00:01:27.060 one thing, it would be too sweet. But you had 00:01:27.060 --> 00:01:28.500 to get the balance right. And it would change 00:01:28.500 --> 00:01:30.019 throughout the year also, obviously, because 00:01:30.019 --> 00:01:31.840 the vegetables change. So we had the Barrigou 00:01:31.840 --> 00:01:33.519 in summer and then we had something that we call 00:01:33.519 --> 00:01:36.560 autumn stock in autumn. And then when you got 00:01:36.560 --> 00:01:38.879 that, you got this like very thick, deep, like 00:01:38.879 --> 00:01:42.439 orange. stock it was amazing it was so delicious 00:01:42.439 --> 00:01:44.700 and then we reduced that down to that glaze that 00:01:44.700 --> 00:01:46.599 we put on the vegetable dish right on the gargoyle 00:01:46.599 --> 00:01:49.680 but what i'm referencing is that at some point 00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:52.500 in that restaurant we took all this cooked out 00:01:52.500 --> 00:01:55.140 veg that was left over from the stock and normally 00:01:55.140 --> 00:01:57.480 you throw that away because a lot of this flavor 00:01:57.480 --> 00:02:00.780 has seeped out it's super super overcooked there's 00:02:00.780 --> 00:02:02.900 not much that you can do with that right But 00:02:02.900 --> 00:02:04.560 I don't know if you remember this or if this 00:02:04.560 --> 00:02:06.200 happened while you were there or if you had already 00:02:06.200 --> 00:02:08.840 left. But at some point we, because we were throwing 00:02:08.840 --> 00:02:11.280 away all these vegetables, Michael Hoffman came 00:02:11.280 --> 00:02:13.180 up with this idea that instead we would keep 00:02:13.180 --> 00:02:15.759 it and we would put it through a mincer like 00:02:15.759 --> 00:02:17.939 you would mince beef on a coarse setting. We'd 00:02:17.939 --> 00:02:20.479 mince all these vegetables down and then we would 00:02:20.479 --> 00:02:23.599 season this coarsely minced vegetable mix with 00:02:23.599 --> 00:02:27.360 cold pressed mustard seed oil. Very nice vinegar, 00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:29.599 like the cucumber vinegar and the tomato vinegar 00:02:29.599 --> 00:02:32.159 that you probably remember. These like beautiful 00:02:32.159 --> 00:02:34.800 bottles from this Austrian vinegar producer. 00:02:35.180 --> 00:02:39.379 Very good Il Casona olive oil, salt and fresh 00:02:39.379 --> 00:02:41.620 herbs. And we would make what we call a tapenade, 00:02:41.759 --> 00:02:43.719 like an olive tapenade, but instead of olives, 00:02:43.879 --> 00:02:46.120 it was the cooked out vegetables. And we would 00:02:46.120 --> 00:02:48.060 press it into like little molds and serve it 00:02:48.060 --> 00:02:50.039 together with the butter for the bread course. 00:02:50.180 --> 00:02:52.379 So people would get a little... disc of French 00:02:52.379 --> 00:02:55.039 salted butter, and they would get a little disc 00:02:55.039 --> 00:02:57.319 of tapenade that they could smear on their bread. 00:02:57.360 --> 00:03:00.060 And it was really delicious. That was a really 00:03:00.060 --> 00:03:01.979 smart way of using the vegetables. That was part 00:03:01.979 --> 00:03:04.240 of my mission plus for a while. I worked in the 00:03:04.240 --> 00:03:07.259 Gartmanger for a while. So I was doing like that 00:03:07.259 --> 00:03:09.860 tapenade. Yeah, that was really, really nice. 00:03:10.000 --> 00:03:13.360 You know, like, but also in general, that baguette. 00:03:14.090 --> 00:03:16.610 was also like where all the scraps of the vegetables 00:03:16.610 --> 00:03:19.729 will would end up also at some point yeah yeah 00:03:19.729 --> 00:03:22.009 just you just have to be like careful i remember 00:03:22.009 --> 00:03:24.610 at some point in my first year at margot like 00:03:24.610 --> 00:03:26.990 i was like just like i had some like peels and 00:03:26.990 --> 00:03:28.789 i like started throwing i threw like one thing 00:03:28.789 --> 00:03:30.409 in the pot and then like another thing then like 00:03:30.409 --> 00:03:32.469 a third thing and at some point i don't remember 00:03:32.469 --> 00:03:34.419 who was on the source here They turned around, 00:03:34.520 --> 00:03:36.360 they're sort of like, can you stop throwing random 00:03:36.360 --> 00:03:40.180 shits in my stock pot? Like there's a very delicate 00:03:40.180 --> 00:03:42.259 balance happening here and you're fucking it 00:03:42.259 --> 00:03:44.340 up, you know, like don't throw anything in there 00:03:44.340 --> 00:03:46.180 anymore. But yeah, what I wanted to talk about 00:03:46.180 --> 00:03:49.259 today is, yeah, upcycling. You know, this term 00:03:49.259 --> 00:03:52.939 has become trendy in the recent years, also known 00:03:52.939 --> 00:03:57.479 as waste cooking or doing things that are delicious 00:03:57.479 --> 00:04:02.370 with stuff you would normally throw away. I also 00:04:02.370 --> 00:04:04.990 remember a Spanish restaurant where I worked 00:04:04.990 --> 00:04:09.090 in Germany. They would do this cod buñuelos. 00:04:09.830 --> 00:04:14.430 Basically like a savory choux paste with cod 00:04:14.430 --> 00:04:17.290 that you would fry and you would have like this, 00:04:17.329 --> 00:04:20.610 you know, like this crispy puffed croquettes 00:04:20.610 --> 00:04:26.720 made with cod. And the cooking water of the cod 00:04:26.720 --> 00:04:29.620 was thrown away every day, you know? And this 00:04:29.620 --> 00:04:32.379 is basically a fish stock. I mean, at least you 00:04:32.379 --> 00:04:36.870 said... uh for staff meal or whatever to do like 00:04:36.870 --> 00:04:40.470 a super nice rice or like a super nice fish stew 00:04:40.470 --> 00:04:43.129 you know like i've seen this also a lot like 00:04:43.129 --> 00:04:46.329 in in restaurants that have this way of thinking 00:04:46.329 --> 00:04:48.769 at the end of the day i would say like it's a 00:04:48.769 --> 00:04:51.990 like like a lazy way of doing things because 00:04:51.990 --> 00:04:54.889 like you know like throwing away chicken carcasses 00:04:54.889 --> 00:04:57.910 and then buying chicken carcasses for for your 00:04:57.910 --> 00:05:00.230 stock i've seen this and i've heard this also 00:05:00.230 --> 00:05:03.529 happening for even very very good restaurants 00:05:03.529 --> 00:05:06.410 you know like where they would you know like 00:05:06.410 --> 00:05:10.009 take a very special part of whatever and throw 00:05:10.009 --> 00:05:11.930 away the rest because they don't need it you 00:05:11.930 --> 00:05:14.730 know like i don't know is there anything that 00:05:14.730 --> 00:05:19.670 like any piece of food like meat or vegetable 00:05:19.670 --> 00:05:22.970 that that you would say like it's underrated 00:05:22.970 --> 00:05:26.569 there's a difficult question to to answer because 00:05:26.569 --> 00:05:29.310 there's A lot of people nowadays that have like, 00:05:29.350 --> 00:05:31.649 you know, used to like approach things with like 00:05:31.649 --> 00:05:34.329 a nose to tail kind of approach, you know. I 00:05:34.329 --> 00:05:37.069 would say lamb belly is one of those things, 00:05:37.149 --> 00:05:39.930 you know, like the belly flap of a lamb. There's 00:05:39.930 --> 00:05:42.089 not a lot of meat, but there's like connective 00:05:42.089 --> 00:05:44.350 tissue and fats. So it's kind of like a pork 00:05:44.350 --> 00:05:46.370 belly. Pork belly is nice and meaty and streaky, 00:05:46.410 --> 00:05:48.389 you know. The lamb belly is just like very thin 00:05:48.389 --> 00:05:50.350 and flappy. But in Mugaritz, we would do this 00:05:50.350 --> 00:05:53.180 thing. If you would get it right, it was very 00:05:53.180 --> 00:05:55.160 nice where you would kind of like brush it and 00:05:55.160 --> 00:05:58.240 bake it and it would like souffle up like a millefeuille, 00:05:58.300 --> 00:06:01.120 like an hojaldre. That was really nice. Or, you 00:06:01.120 --> 00:06:02.899 know, just like very simple. There's this restaurant 00:06:02.899 --> 00:06:05.579 in London called Silk Road that do Sichuanese 00:06:05.579 --> 00:06:07.680 food. They would make skewers, these like very 00:06:07.680 --> 00:06:11.220 long skewers with like stacked lamb belly cut 00:06:11.220 --> 00:06:14.300 like very square and then just grilled. Just 00:06:14.300 --> 00:06:16.639 grilled with like the seasoning of like chili 00:06:16.639 --> 00:06:19.269 powder, roasted chili powder and cumin. fuck 00:06:19.269 --> 00:06:21.290 man you would get like a couple of metal skewers 00:06:21.290 --> 00:06:23.310 like that very thin very long like super crispy 00:06:23.310 --> 00:06:26.470 fatty as amazing you know i love that like you 00:06:26.470 --> 00:06:29.490 know this upcycling idea because it's it's a 00:06:29.490 --> 00:06:32.129 mixture of things right it's for one respectful 00:06:32.129 --> 00:06:35.230 to the product right like how horrible just to 00:06:35.230 --> 00:06:36.930 use the tenderloin of the cow and then like what 00:06:36.930 --> 00:06:38.410 do you do with the fucking rest you just dice 00:06:38.410 --> 00:06:40.170 it up for burgers you know it's fucking horrible 00:06:40.170 --> 00:06:42.829 but also it's skillful if you as a restaurant 00:06:42.829 --> 00:06:44.990 you get a whole animal in and you only use the 00:06:44.990 --> 00:06:47.269 tenderloins and the shoulders and the legs you're 00:06:47.269 --> 00:06:49.740 wasting a you know, like a fuck ton of money. 00:06:50.019 --> 00:06:51.819 It's also kind of like a little bit of a challenge 00:06:51.819 --> 00:06:54.759 to yourself as a craftsman to be sort of like, 00:06:54.819 --> 00:06:57.220 well, what can I do? You know, actually, that 00:06:57.220 --> 00:06:58.899 brings me to one thing. I think we mentioned 00:06:58.899 --> 00:07:00.560 it on a podcast before. I think one of the most 00:07:00.560 --> 00:07:04.279 underrated pieces on an animal's head. Mexicans 00:07:04.279 --> 00:07:07.259 know this. Mexicans know this very well. Tacos 00:07:07.259 --> 00:07:10.079 de cabeza, you know. But I also really vividly 00:07:10.079 --> 00:07:12.939 remember when you and I roasted a pork head in 00:07:12.939 --> 00:07:15.639 your house, in your apartment in Berlin. And 00:07:15.639 --> 00:07:18.040 it was fucking amazing. It was like... I had 00:07:18.040 --> 00:07:20.000 no idea what we were doing. It turned out to 00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:21.620 be some of the most delicious pork I've ever 00:07:21.620 --> 00:07:23.459 tried. I've been thinking about those dinner 00:07:23.459 --> 00:07:25.779 parties that we would do, or dinner parties or 00:07:25.779 --> 00:07:28.500 culinary experiments that we would do back then. 00:07:28.939 --> 00:07:32.240 Because recently I started doing some, I told 00:07:32.240 --> 00:07:35.500 you, like some house dinner parties. And I haven't 00:07:35.500 --> 00:07:38.120 done this in a long while. Yet at the same time, 00:07:38.220 --> 00:07:40.779 I remember doing this way more when I was completely 00:07:40.779 --> 00:07:46.160 broke. I'm doing fine, you know, like, I don't 00:07:46.160 --> 00:07:48.540 do it that much more, you know, and it doesn't 00:07:48.540 --> 00:07:51.399 hurt that much as back then where I would just, 00:07:51.439 --> 00:07:54.620 you know, fuck it, spend my whole savings, life 00:07:54.620 --> 00:07:59.379 savings in a dinner and invite my friends, you 00:07:59.379 --> 00:08:06.079 know. But yeah, like, it's a nice thing. Yeah, 00:08:06.139 --> 00:08:08.939 I remember doing that head. That we cooked it 00:08:08.939 --> 00:08:12.779 in apple juice with a nice bed of vegetables. 00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:16.379 I think we poured some beer on top of it also. 00:08:17.160 --> 00:08:20.860 Makes sense. Yeah. And it was amazing. I remember 00:08:20.860 --> 00:08:22.759 it was super nice. I mean, at the end of the 00:08:22.759 --> 00:08:24.600 day, the best meat is always the one that is 00:08:24.600 --> 00:08:27.040 near to the bone. And there you have like a lot 00:08:27.040 --> 00:08:30.759 of things going on near the bone. A lot of fat, 00:08:30.920 --> 00:08:32.940 a lot of connective tissue. Yeah. I remember 00:08:32.940 --> 00:08:36.019 that we ate the gums, you know, the gums of like 00:08:36.019 --> 00:08:39.649 the... Your friend that was with us, I don't 00:08:39.649 --> 00:08:41.210 remember his name, but he was like, oh, yeah, 00:08:41.230 --> 00:08:43.350 Delicacy. You know, he was talking a lot of bullshit, 00:08:43.409 --> 00:08:47.649 this guy. But I remember we were trying it. I 00:08:47.649 --> 00:08:50.750 don't remember who this was who said this about 00:08:50.750 --> 00:08:54.870 the gums. But I do remember it was Joachim Wessler, 00:08:54.950 --> 00:08:58.169 the chef of Vendome, that he would say he would 00:08:58.169 --> 00:09:01.389 do like from the Iberian pork, like a very strange 00:09:01.389 --> 00:09:03.960 cut. I don't remember, but it was something really 00:09:03.960 --> 00:09:07.500 strange. I mean, this guy is one of my favorite 00:09:07.500 --> 00:09:10.659 German chefs. No? You don't like him? Yeah, no, 00:09:10.740 --> 00:09:12.820 no, no, absolutely. I'm just thinking armpits. 00:09:12.840 --> 00:09:14.320 It sounds to me like, you know, the other day 00:09:14.320 --> 00:09:16.519 I saw somebody put something on the menu, and 00:09:16.519 --> 00:09:19.360 it was like, oh, king crab shoulder. And I'm 00:09:19.360 --> 00:09:21.120 like, what the fuck do you mean, king crab shoulder? 00:09:22.460 --> 00:09:26.320 Or was it called knuckle or something? But it 00:09:26.320 --> 00:09:27.980 looked cool when it was written on the menu. 00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:30.559 And then I was kind of thinking, it's like, man, 00:09:30.620 --> 00:09:32.860 you know, we just call things whatever the fuck 00:09:32.860 --> 00:09:34.860 we want nowadays, no? Like king crab shoulder. 00:09:35.220 --> 00:09:37.379 Like, you mean the upper part of the leg? Like, 00:09:37.419 --> 00:09:39.379 you just call it the shoulder and that's it? 00:09:39.500 --> 00:09:41.860 But I remember, I mean, you just mentioned calling 00:09:41.860 --> 00:09:46.100 some leftovers from your vegetable stock, seasoning 00:09:46.100 --> 00:09:49.299 it and calling it tapenade. You know, like, and 00:09:49.299 --> 00:09:52.480 I remember also when 20 years ago, when I started 00:09:52.480 --> 00:09:54.659 in culinary school, people would have this discussion, 00:09:54.820 --> 00:09:56.700 you know, I went to this restaurant and they 00:09:56.700 --> 00:09:59.639 gave me this thing and they call it, tomato tartare. 00:09:59.840 --> 00:10:01.940 That was just a fucking tomato salad. Why do 00:10:01.940 --> 00:10:05.059 you call it a tomato tartare? Fair enough. The 00:10:05.059 --> 00:10:09.340 way you call things creates an expectation and 00:10:09.340 --> 00:10:11.960 a predisposition to what you're going to try. 00:10:12.539 --> 00:10:16.419 And for example, these tribes that you get at 00:10:16.419 --> 00:10:20.480 Bordaberry, these caught tribes, this part is 00:10:20.480 --> 00:10:23.480 actually the swimming bladder of the fish that 00:10:23.480 --> 00:10:25.379 has nothing to do with urine. It's the thing 00:10:25.379 --> 00:10:28.809 that... blows so the fish can swim up and down 00:10:28.809 --> 00:10:32.169 yes once you mention that before you're going 00:10:32.169 --> 00:10:34.830 to eat it's like you know it generates a very 00:10:34.830 --> 00:10:37.529 bad it's true anticipation and previous position 00:10:37.529 --> 00:10:41.549 and it's more likely that people won't like it 00:10:41.549 --> 00:10:43.830 you know like with that with that information 00:10:43.830 --> 00:10:46.750 that is actually um a very good point i remember 00:10:46.750 --> 00:10:50.129 mentioning this before but the best thing that 00:10:50.129 --> 00:10:53.970 i ate during my time in was a dish that that 00:10:53.970 --> 00:10:56.850 i'm on perisse made in autumn In hunting season. 00:10:57.230 --> 00:11:03.529 And he made a stew with snipe and tripe de bacalao. 00:11:03.649 --> 00:11:07.610 Oh, nice. Like a surf and turf game kind of thing. 00:11:07.850 --> 00:11:11.429 And you had this like dark chocolatey game stew 00:11:11.429 --> 00:11:15.909 kind of thing with the like gelatinous sticky 00:11:15.909 --> 00:11:19.210 texture and the like bacalao flavor, the kind 00:11:19.210 --> 00:11:22.049 of funk going on. And I remember tasting this 00:11:22.049 --> 00:11:23.870 and it's like it was a tiny, tiny dish of like, 00:11:23.950 --> 00:11:26.009 you know, just a couple of pieces. And I remember 00:11:26.009 --> 00:11:28.169 tasting this and being like, man, this is real 00:11:28.169 --> 00:11:32.809 high -level gourmet cooking right here. And I 00:11:32.809 --> 00:11:34.590 remember thinking to myself, man, I wish there 00:11:34.590 --> 00:11:36.169 were more dishes like this on the menu here, 00:11:36.250 --> 00:11:38.889 you know? These guys, they really know how to 00:11:38.889 --> 00:11:42.549 treat game and these little birds that are part 00:11:42.549 --> 00:11:45.529 of, like, a lesser -known part of the culinary 00:11:45.529 --> 00:11:48.509 culture here. I think the one that is really 00:11:48.509 --> 00:11:52.409 embracing that right now is Edorta Lamo from 00:11:52.409 --> 00:11:56.679 Arrea, south of the Basque Country. His restaurant 00:11:56.679 --> 00:12:02.259 focuses, yeah, just on game. They call it furtivism 00:12:02.259 --> 00:12:05.720 because there is some furtive hunting going on 00:12:05.720 --> 00:12:10.419 around that. Okay, okay, cool. Phil, do you recommend 00:12:10.419 --> 00:12:13.899 podcasts to your friends? All the time. The best 00:12:13.899 --> 00:12:16.080 way of showing friends that you care is recommending 00:12:16.080 --> 00:12:19.159 a great podcast to listen to. I agree. If you're 00:12:19.159 --> 00:12:21.779 listening right now, you should show your love 00:12:21.779 --> 00:12:24.840 by recommending our show to all your best friends. 00:12:25.039 --> 00:12:28.240 It will make them happy. It will make us happy. 00:12:28.480 --> 00:12:31.240 PopLock Food Talks. Tell your friends. It will 00:12:31.240 --> 00:12:36.919 make the world a better place. For me, a very 00:12:36.919 --> 00:12:39.679 good example of upcycling, and a very common 00:12:39.679 --> 00:12:43.000 one, and one that you will see in homes, the 00:12:43.000 --> 00:12:47.120 first step of upcycling, which is taking something 00:12:47.120 --> 00:12:50.740 that normally is thrown away, the main stem of 00:12:50.740 --> 00:12:54.559 a broccoli. It's very common for people to cut 00:12:54.559 --> 00:12:58.059 the flowers, throw the stem away, just out of 00:12:58.059 --> 00:13:01.539 laziness of doing something with it. And out 00:13:01.539 --> 00:13:03.580 of not knowing. You know, because you can do 00:13:03.580 --> 00:13:06.500 like very easy stuff. You know, you spoil it 00:13:06.500 --> 00:13:10.279 or throw it into or cut it really small and saute 00:13:10.279 --> 00:13:14.000 it and do like a stir fried rice, you know, like 00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:16.820 or doing like a cream or whatever. Yeah. Even 00:13:16.820 --> 00:13:19.179 peeling it, cutting it like super thin slices, 00:13:19.220 --> 00:13:22.120 putting it in a salad raw is like really nice. 00:13:22.179 --> 00:13:24.159 I remember like being on a barbecue once and. 00:13:25.320 --> 00:13:28.539 It was somebody who just staged at Noma and they 00:13:28.539 --> 00:13:31.240 were making a broccoli stem, like a chunky broccoli 00:13:31.240 --> 00:13:33.840 stem, like grilled and just kind of like brushing 00:13:33.840 --> 00:13:35.639 with butter and grilling it and grilling until 00:13:35.639 --> 00:13:37.919 it was cooked through. And it was fucking delicious, 00:13:38.059 --> 00:13:40.740 man. It was so good. It's so interesting, right? 00:13:40.820 --> 00:13:43.120 Because we think like, why do you throw broccoli 00:13:43.120 --> 00:13:46.460 stems away? Why? Have you thought about it? Like, 00:13:46.460 --> 00:13:48.100 do you, have you actually looked at what's in 00:13:48.100 --> 00:13:49.539 front of you and thought to yourself, oh, is 00:13:49.539 --> 00:13:51.200 this edible? Is this not? No, it's just kind 00:13:51.200 --> 00:13:54.139 of like a learned behavior, right? I use the 00:13:54.139 --> 00:13:57.059 florets and the rest I throw away. But like, 00:13:57.080 --> 00:13:59.960 why? And that kind of like makes me think, because 00:13:59.960 --> 00:14:03.159 when you think about it objectively, there's 00:14:03.159 --> 00:14:04.700 no reason for you to think that you should throw 00:14:04.700 --> 00:14:06.980 this away. There's not really. Because you can 00:14:06.980 --> 00:14:09.159 peel it, the inside is tender, it's tasty, there's 00:14:09.159 --> 00:14:11.460 nothing bad about it. And that often makes me 00:14:11.460 --> 00:14:14.200 think, how many things are there that I am doing 00:14:14.200 --> 00:14:16.980 out of learned behavior instead of actually looking 00:14:16.980 --> 00:14:19.799 what's in front of me and thinking about, like 00:14:19.799 --> 00:14:22.159 thinking outside of the box. And that often happens 00:14:22.159 --> 00:14:23.899 when we see things from other cooking cultures 00:14:23.899 --> 00:14:26.559 where we see like, oh, they do this with that. 00:14:26.679 --> 00:14:29.220 You know, oh, that's so interesting. And you're 00:14:29.220 --> 00:14:30.539 kind of thinking, why have I never thought of 00:14:30.539 --> 00:14:31.720 that? It's kind of like, well, because you're 00:14:31.720 --> 00:14:34.080 in a sort of like cultural autopilot where you're 00:14:34.080 --> 00:14:35.759 just kind of going on with the way that you've 00:14:35.759 --> 00:14:38.620 been taught instead of looking at it with a mind 00:14:38.620 --> 00:14:40.580 like you're in a new planet. You're in a new 00:14:40.580 --> 00:14:42.019 planet. You've seen things that you've never 00:14:42.019 --> 00:14:45.840 seen before. You have no cultural. connotation 00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:48.039 you have no connection to traditions or dishes 00:14:48.039 --> 00:14:51.519 or whatever you simply go by what you see in 00:14:51.519 --> 00:14:53.419 front of you i think that's a that's a very good 00:14:53.419 --> 00:14:56.500 practice to do as a as a chef i mean like i've 00:14:56.500 --> 00:14:59.639 seen a lot of things i mean working in food innovation 00:14:59.639 --> 00:15:04.000 i've seen like a lot of things done with um food 00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:08.899 waste um for example uh doing kombuchas we we 00:15:08.899 --> 00:15:12.940 used coffee grounds or even growing mushrooms 00:15:12.940 --> 00:15:16.299 in used coffee grounds, mixing it with hay, but 00:15:16.299 --> 00:15:21.960 also using like the peels of vegetables and doing 00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:25.080 vinegar with that. Like at least the way I think 00:15:25.080 --> 00:15:27.980 now, and I'm not saying this is, I'm not preaching 00:15:27.980 --> 00:15:30.379 or evangelizing or anything. It's just like a 00:15:30.379 --> 00:15:33.779 personal preference. I'm not a fan of doing vinegars. 00:15:34.200 --> 00:15:37.080 I think it's very time demanding and the result 00:15:37.080 --> 00:15:39.480 is like at least not, for example, doing vinegars 00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:42.639 with carrot peels or something like that. Instead, 00:15:42.759 --> 00:15:45.220 I would, you know, like take a vinegar that is 00:15:45.220 --> 00:15:48.240 already made and infuse it with this or something 00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:51.759 like that. I think that the technical complexity 00:15:51.759 --> 00:15:55.460 is way lower. But I remember trying, for example, 00:15:55.460 --> 00:15:58.980 very good self -made vinegars with, for example, 00:15:58.980 --> 00:16:02.399 with plantain. with bananas, like really, really 00:16:02.399 --> 00:16:05.320 nice, the dark vinegars. And the other thing 00:16:05.320 --> 00:16:07.860 that has become like also relatively trendy is 00:16:07.860 --> 00:16:10.220 doing garums, you know, like, but for that you 00:16:10.220 --> 00:16:13.179 need like, again, like some, first of all, a 00:16:13.179 --> 00:16:16.820 space, like a smell safe space. You don't want 00:16:16.820 --> 00:16:19.779 to do that in your living room. No, necessarily 00:16:19.779 --> 00:16:25.870 no. No. If you have like a wine cellar or something 00:16:25.870 --> 00:16:27.470 like that, it's perfect because nobody cares 00:16:27.470 --> 00:16:30.190 about the smell inside a cellar or like a storage 00:16:30.190 --> 00:16:32.970 room. Yeah, because it will smell like fish sauce, 00:16:33.029 --> 00:16:35.730 like the space where you're doing it. Or at least 00:16:35.730 --> 00:16:38.169 it will have that width in the air. But yeah, 00:16:38.269 --> 00:16:41.690 I was in this place called the Wakan in Kuala 00:16:41.690 --> 00:16:45.509 Lumpur. They got two Michelin stars and they 00:16:45.509 --> 00:16:49.059 call it like the Noma of Southeast Asia. And 00:16:49.059 --> 00:16:51.740 the sous chef, was he the sous chef? Yeah, he 00:16:51.740 --> 00:16:55.179 was the sous chef. He was so kind to show us 00:16:55.179 --> 00:16:59.659 around. And they made garros with all the fish, 00:16:59.840 --> 00:17:03.000 all the seafood scrap, you know, squid, fish, 00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:05.559 different kind of stuff. So they would just ferment 00:17:05.559 --> 00:17:09.420 it and do like fish sauces with all this stuff. 00:17:09.980 --> 00:17:12.539 I think that also adds like an identity layer 00:17:12.539 --> 00:17:15.319 to your cooking that brings it to a next level. 00:17:15.420 --> 00:17:19.599 You know, like when I was in this place, Ultramarines 00:17:19.599 --> 00:17:21.880 Marina in Barcelona, they would have just salt 00:17:21.880 --> 00:17:24.220 and garum in the grill station, you know, like, 00:17:24.240 --> 00:17:26.000 and everything would have like some drops of 00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:28.599 garum on top, like super, super nice. But I think 00:17:28.599 --> 00:17:31.799 doing those kinds of things, like... fermenting 00:17:31.799 --> 00:17:34.900 stuff and turning it into condiments, you know, 00:17:34.940 --> 00:17:37.059 like also dehydrating, you know, dehydrating 00:17:37.059 --> 00:17:38.859 and doing powders with stuff you would normally 00:17:38.859 --> 00:17:42.339 throw away and doing salts with that. You know, 00:17:42.380 --> 00:17:46.119 there's like a lot of things that you can do 00:17:46.119 --> 00:17:48.440 with the stuff that you're normally throwing 00:17:48.440 --> 00:17:52.240 away. 100 % I agree that like I think garums 00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:54.259 are one of the most underrated still one of the 00:17:54.259 --> 00:17:56.259 most underrated tools in the kitchen you know 00:17:56.259 --> 00:17:58.559 it's like a little secret weapon it's a little 00:17:58.559 --> 00:18:01.240 like secret sort of little sprinkle of crack 00:18:01.240 --> 00:18:03.319 that you can put in anything that you want you 00:18:03.319 --> 00:18:05.339 know and people are really like can't really 00:18:05.339 --> 00:18:07.220 place it and I think people should be less scared 00:18:07.220 --> 00:18:09.400 of trying to make garums themselves you know 00:18:09.400 --> 00:18:12.640 like it's a I get it it's a fucked up idea of 00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:15.519 just like taking fish with their guts and like 00:18:15.519 --> 00:18:18.569 whatever and like all the it's disgusting like 00:18:18.569 --> 00:18:20.730 i mean don't get me wrong if you take sardines 00:18:20.730 --> 00:18:23.750 with all the guts you add salt you puree the 00:18:23.750 --> 00:18:25.990 whole shit it's not going to be nice not going 00:18:25.990 --> 00:18:28.430 to smell nice like but you need to give it time 00:18:28.829 --> 00:18:30.769 And then just like, you know, if you have a balcony 00:18:30.769 --> 00:18:32.569 or a cellar, like wherever, you know, just like, 00:18:32.609 --> 00:18:34.990 just give it a go because it's really, really 00:18:34.990 --> 00:18:37.630 nice. Fish garum, a little bit easier than like 00:18:37.630 --> 00:18:40.430 meat garum. You can accelerate the whole and 00:18:40.430 --> 00:18:42.829 like make it more complex with the use of Koji, 00:18:43.029 --> 00:18:45.349 but there already you need a lot more knowledge 00:18:45.349 --> 00:18:47.789 and it's a lot more technical because Koji is 00:18:47.789 --> 00:18:51.210 very, like very dramatic in a way. Like it gets 00:18:51.210 --> 00:18:53.869 fucked up pretty easily. I mean, or, or going 00:18:53.869 --> 00:18:57.789 again, like you can buy a shelf stable Koji. 00:18:58.200 --> 00:19:01.059 You know, like a dehydrated koji and use that 00:19:01.059 --> 00:19:04.119 instead. Of course, it's not going to be better 00:19:04.119 --> 00:19:07.480 than the freshly self -made, but it will save 00:19:07.480 --> 00:19:10.960 you maybe thousands of hours of learning and 00:19:10.960 --> 00:19:15.240 mistakes and even equipment. You know, like you 00:19:15.240 --> 00:19:19.579 need some decent incubators to create your own 00:19:19.579 --> 00:19:22.680 koji. Even if these are like homemade incubators, 00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:25.680 you're going to need those, right? Yeah, yeah, 00:19:25.700 --> 00:19:28.059 absolutely. That's I think one of the most difficult 00:19:28.059 --> 00:19:29.740 things at home to have a stable temperature. 00:19:30.039 --> 00:19:32.160 But I mean, if you do, you know, like if you 00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:34.160 have some garum, it's so cool. Like in Berlin, 00:19:34.220 --> 00:19:36.119 I used to do this thing where like every meat 00:19:36.119 --> 00:19:38.160 that I had, like for example, like say I have 00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:41.099 deer loin. About like two hours before service, 00:19:41.160 --> 00:19:43.720 I would brush it in some meat garum and just 00:19:43.720 --> 00:19:45.839 leave it. And then right before service, just 00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:47.599 like pat it dry a little bit. So it's not like 00:19:47.599 --> 00:19:51.940 swimming in garum. And so it was like very lightly 00:19:51.940 --> 00:19:54.220 marinated. And then afterwards you would just 00:19:54.220 --> 00:19:56.160 grill it, brush it with brown butter, rest it, 00:19:56.220 --> 00:19:58.700 slice it. And I swear to you, I mean, it was 00:19:58.700 --> 00:20:00.900 good quality meat anyway, but it's like it took 00:20:00.900 --> 00:20:04.039 the flavor of the meat from here to here. And 00:20:04.039 --> 00:20:06.240 people aren't able to place it. They're sort 00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:09.359 of like, why is this so tasty? And also it works 00:20:09.359 --> 00:20:12.519 as a tenderizer in a way, you know. But people 00:20:12.519 --> 00:20:13.960 taste it and they're sort of like, man, why is 00:20:13.960 --> 00:20:15.519 this so tasty? Do you remember the anchovies 00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:19.099 that we had at Muka? You know, with a little 00:20:19.099 --> 00:20:22.039 bit of anchovy garam. and lemon zest and olive 00:20:22.039 --> 00:20:25.000 oil. Like, I mean, how fucking crazy was that? 00:20:25.099 --> 00:20:27.680 And it's this little sort of like, oh, I can't 00:20:27.680 --> 00:20:29.680 really place it. It's just like this deep umami. 00:20:29.779 --> 00:20:32.259 It's fucking amazing. It's really, really underrated. 00:20:32.680 --> 00:20:37.059 This day that I went to this Josh Nyland dinner 00:20:37.059 --> 00:20:41.099 with Sebastian Pincheira from Kai Sushi, he told 00:20:41.099 --> 00:20:43.619 me he did a collaboration with Juan Vargas from 00:20:43.619 --> 00:20:47.289 Mucha. And he tried this anchovies, you know, 00:20:47.349 --> 00:20:52.390 this marinated anchovies and garum. And, I mean, 00:20:52.390 --> 00:20:55.710 he's a sushi chef. Logically, first thing that 00:20:55.710 --> 00:20:57.670 came to his mind, like, I need to do a nigiri 00:20:57.670 --> 00:21:00.210 with this. You know, like, I need to do this. 00:21:00.789 --> 00:21:04.009 And when he actually did it for the pop -up dinner 00:21:04.009 --> 00:21:06.490 and he gave it to Juan to taste it, he tells 00:21:06.490 --> 00:21:11.309 me that Juan went like this. completely shocked 00:21:11.309 --> 00:21:13.849 like for a complete minute i mean like i can't 00:21:13.849 --> 00:21:16.390 mentally taste that and i cannot really say that 00:21:16.390 --> 00:21:18.529 that's to be incredible you know like absolutely 00:21:18.529 --> 00:21:21.990 with that stuff it's fucking amazing and i mean 00:21:21.990 --> 00:21:24.569 like this uh it's my favorite type of like sushi 00:21:24.569 --> 00:21:28.029 nigiri etc it's like sardines mackerel all the 00:21:28.029 --> 00:21:32.369 bluefish i fucking love it man Hey Phil, have 00:21:32.369 --> 00:21:34.990 you subscribed to our newsletter yet? We have 00:21:34.990 --> 00:21:37.690 a newsletter? What's a newsletter about, Eric? 00:21:37.930 --> 00:21:40.529 Every month we share one cool thing from the 00:21:40.529 --> 00:21:42.589 world of food and restaurants and occasionally 00:21:42.589 --> 00:21:46.329 a recipe we swore we'd never share. Like your 00:21:46.329 --> 00:21:49.410 secret boiled egg lemon tart recipe. But Eric, 00:21:49.630 --> 00:21:53.109 that was my grandma's secret recipe. Not anymore. 00:21:53.470 --> 00:21:56.509 Subscribe to our newsletter where we unveil all 00:21:56.509 --> 00:22:02.240 of Phil's grandmother's secrets. And also something 00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:04.980 I think that is like an important clarification 00:22:04.980 --> 00:22:10.019 and like a very common misconception. I don't 00:22:10.019 --> 00:22:11.720 know why, because it doesn't make any sense. 00:22:11.859 --> 00:22:15.519 Like cooking with waste doesn't mean taking stuff 00:22:15.519 --> 00:22:18.359 that you would throw away because it's already 00:22:18.359 --> 00:22:21.619 on the bad side and try to make something delicious 00:22:21.619 --> 00:22:24.480 out of it. No, no, no, that's already, you know, 00:22:24.539 --> 00:22:28.660 it's like taking your fresh, good produce. the 00:22:28.660 --> 00:22:30.859 parts you're not going to use and doing something 00:22:30.859 --> 00:22:32.880 amazing with that. And I think that's something 00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:35.019 that should be very present. If it's already 00:22:35.019 --> 00:22:39.720 on the bad side, do a staff meal or whatever, 00:22:39.960 --> 00:22:42.279 or eat it, but don't expect it to get better. 00:22:43.140 --> 00:22:45.579 That's not going to happen. Did you see this 00:22:45.579 --> 00:22:49.960 clip of Massimo Rottura saying that all his restaurants 00:22:49.960 --> 00:22:54.240 are zero -waste certified? Yeah. What a load 00:22:54.240 --> 00:22:56.519 of fucking bullshit. Can we just say anything 00:22:56.519 --> 00:23:00.819 that we fucking want nowadays? Like, can I have 00:23:00.819 --> 00:23:03.720 my six -year -old son cut out a couple of stars 00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:06.579 from fucking colored paper and like stick them 00:23:06.579 --> 00:23:09.559 to me and say I'm a five Michelin star chef? 00:23:09.740 --> 00:23:13.599 I added two stars to the roster. What the fuck 00:23:13.599 --> 00:23:16.440 is that? There's no fucking way. You know how 00:23:16.440 --> 00:23:18.920 many restaurants try to be like zero waste certified? 00:23:19.220 --> 00:23:21.839 And like that actually do like places like Silo. 00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:25.680 which is now sadly closing, or Amass, you know, 00:23:25.839 --> 00:23:27.920 where they were making like biscuits out of coffee 00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:30.119 grounds and all that sort of stuff. And he's 00:23:30.119 --> 00:23:35.220 like, zero waste. They cook with the trash because 00:23:35.220 --> 00:23:37.799 that makes us a family. I said, man, shut the 00:23:37.799 --> 00:23:40.420 fuck up, bro. What's the name of the chef from 00:23:40.420 --> 00:23:44.640 Amass? Matt Orlando. You know, he recently, he's 00:23:44.640 --> 00:23:46.900 back in Copenhagen and he opened a new restaurant. 00:23:47.500 --> 00:23:49.619 Oh, yeah? He left Singapore. I don't know if 00:23:49.619 --> 00:23:51.200 the restaurant that he opened in Singapore still 00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:54.319 exists, but he's back in Copenhagen. That's amazing. 00:23:54.460 --> 00:23:57.220 I was so sad when a mask closed. I had one of 00:23:57.220 --> 00:24:01.259 my most memorable lunches there, like one of 00:24:01.259 --> 00:24:05.240 my most memorable meals there ever. It was amazing. 00:24:05.400 --> 00:24:09.720 I loved it. I had a meeting in the space already 00:24:09.720 --> 00:24:12.880 closed. The empty restaurant became like an office 00:24:12.880 --> 00:24:16.769 for this innovation lab called Spora. And I had 00:24:16.769 --> 00:24:18.849 a meeting there and it was, you know, like kind 00:24:18.849 --> 00:24:21.230 of like nostalgic, like, you know, being in this 00:24:21.230 --> 00:24:23.990 place that what I've never been before, you know, 00:24:23.990 --> 00:24:26.170 like, but I knew a lot about it and suddenly 00:24:26.170 --> 00:24:28.789 it became like an office for this kind of thing. 00:24:29.130 --> 00:24:31.309 It was such a cool space. Like I loved it. Like 00:24:31.309 --> 00:24:33.410 with the concrete and the graffiti and like the 00:24:33.410 --> 00:24:35.529 open, like the high ceilings, the like warehouse, 00:24:35.690 --> 00:24:37.930 the garden outside. It was, it was a really beautiful 00:24:37.930 --> 00:24:39.430 restaurant. It was an amazing chef, Matt Orlando. 00:24:39.869 --> 00:24:50.400 Absolutely amazing chef. Now it's time for our 00:24:50.400 --> 00:24:53.400 new segment that we're introducing, Go Fact Yourself, 00:24:53.500 --> 00:24:57.420 where we fact check and untangle cooking myths 00:24:57.420 --> 00:25:02.859 and misconceptions. Go fact yourself. Go fact 00:25:02.859 --> 00:25:08.380 yourself. Adding the seed of avocado to your 00:25:08.380 --> 00:25:13.079 guacamole will help it prevent from oxidizing. 00:25:13.380 --> 00:25:18.920 That is a good question. Come here, Sots. What 00:25:18.920 --> 00:25:21.519 would the seed do? Because I don't think that 00:25:21.519 --> 00:25:23.839 the seed inside the avocado keeps the avocado 00:25:23.839 --> 00:25:27.079 from inside turning brown. I think the skin that 00:25:27.079 --> 00:25:29.980 is covering the avocado from the oxygen is keeping 00:25:29.980 --> 00:25:35.319 it from turning brown. I mean, just think about 00:25:35.319 --> 00:25:38.240 it. I love a little bit of science. There you 00:25:38.240 --> 00:25:42.420 go. Yeah, I mean, I think it makes no difference. 00:25:44.039 --> 00:25:48.650 I think oxidization is what turns. avocado brown 00:25:48.650 --> 00:25:52.529 and not some sort of chemical inside of the seed. 00:25:52.690 --> 00:25:56.809 When I see someone doing that, I like it. You 00:25:56.809 --> 00:26:00.009 do? Yeah. I don't care if it's true or not, scientifically, 00:26:00.289 --> 00:26:02.869 but there is like a code in that. It's like, 00:26:02.950 --> 00:26:06.289 you know, I know you know. You know, like the 00:26:06.289 --> 00:26:09.049 ritualistic aspect of cooking or it's, you know, 00:26:09.069 --> 00:26:12.329 like at least it tells me that the people that 00:26:12.329 --> 00:26:15.690 did that guacamole is caring by doing that. Exactly. 00:26:16.410 --> 00:26:19.250 You know, like, and that, and that, that is meaningful 00:26:19.250 --> 00:26:24.549 to me. But yeah, I actually do it by, for that 00:26:24.549 --> 00:26:26.730 reason as well, because it's like a, you know, 00:26:26.730 --> 00:26:30.329 like a jester and, and I like it. You like it 00:26:30.329 --> 00:26:33.369 because you do it yourself. All right. Um, all 00:26:33.369 --> 00:26:34.670 right, dear listener, it's time for you to give 00:26:34.670 --> 00:26:37.529 us your answer. Do you think, um, avocado seeds 00:26:37.529 --> 00:26:40.089 turn your guacamole from turning brown? Say your 00:26:40.089 --> 00:26:42.589 answer out loud, uh, wherever you are, whether 00:26:42.589 --> 00:26:46.230 you're in the, in the subway station or. You're 00:26:46.230 --> 00:26:47.650 in the cinema with your girlfriend. It doesn't 00:26:47.650 --> 00:26:49.549 matter if the movie is about to start. It's your 00:26:49.549 --> 00:26:56.089 time to answer in three, two, one. If you said 00:26:56.089 --> 00:26:59.890 yes, then you're very much mistaken. I'm sorry 00:26:59.890 --> 00:27:03.009 to tell you, Eric, that adding avocado seed to 00:27:03.009 --> 00:27:04.950 guacamole does not prevent it from turning brown 00:27:04.950 --> 00:27:08.130 unless you're talking about the area that the 00:27:08.130 --> 00:27:10.230 avocado seed is touching, which is preventing 00:27:10.230 --> 00:27:12.809 it from being in contact with oxygen. But all 00:27:12.809 --> 00:27:15.329 the rest of the guacamole will oxidize just the 00:27:15.329 --> 00:27:17.250 same. There's unfortunately not a substance in 00:27:17.250 --> 00:27:19.289 the avocado seed that keeps it from turning brown. 00:27:19.410 --> 00:27:22.430 That's very sad. But to console you in your sadness 00:27:22.430 --> 00:27:26.690 about being wrong, I have an interesting avocado 00:27:26.690 --> 00:27:31.210 fact for you, or a hack. Okay. How do you take 00:27:31.210 --> 00:27:33.049 the seed out of an avocado after you cut it in 00:27:33.049 --> 00:27:36.190 half? I would, you know, like, use my knife as 00:27:36.190 --> 00:27:39.269 a little axe, and I would, like, click, and then 00:27:39.269 --> 00:27:42.180 I... Machete it. Yeah, I machete it and then 00:27:42.180 --> 00:27:47.500 I turn. Or like a little bit, turn and then pull. 00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:50.859 And there it goes. That's how I've been doing 00:27:50.859 --> 00:27:56.059 it for the past 17 years. And how most people 00:27:56.059 --> 00:27:59.599 that I know do it. And I've recently, just this 00:27:59.599 --> 00:28:03.299 week, found out, which blew my mind, is that 00:28:03.299 --> 00:28:06.160 if you take an avocado that is not underripe, 00:28:06.279 --> 00:28:08.460 it doesn't have to be super ripe, but if it's 00:28:08.460 --> 00:28:11.420 just normal ripe. You cut it in half. You have 00:28:11.420 --> 00:28:13.319 one half. It's already seedless. You have another 00:28:13.319 --> 00:28:15.960 half that's seedless. You turn it around and 00:28:15.960 --> 00:28:18.460 you, with both thumbs, just press on the skin 00:28:18.460 --> 00:28:21.180 where the seed is. It'll just pop out by itself. 00:28:21.819 --> 00:28:24.500 Nice. Nice, nice, nice. You should give it a 00:28:24.500 --> 00:28:28.960 try. Yeah? Is that like you're reanimating the 00:28:28.960 --> 00:28:32.220 avocado and then it will like pop? A little bit, 00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:34.079 yeah. You're doing a Heimlich maneuver on the 00:28:34.079 --> 00:28:36.920 avocado, basically. But don't press too hard. 00:28:37.380 --> 00:28:41.859 Wrong about cooking! Don't get mad, get factual.