WEBVTT 00:00:04.389 --> 00:00:07.929 Hi, everyone. Welcome to Pot Luck Food Talks, 00:00:07.929 --> 00:00:10.830 the show where we talk about food and kitchens 00:00:10.830 --> 00:00:13.429 from a cook's point of view. We're recording 00:00:13.429 --> 00:00:16.969 today live from the Millennium Falcon. My name 00:00:16.969 --> 00:00:19.429 is Obi -Wan Kenobi, and I'm here with my friend 00:00:19.429 --> 00:00:21.750 Chewbacca. And we're going to talk about the 00:00:21.750 --> 00:00:23.750 future of restaurants and food scenes and movements. 00:00:23.850 --> 00:00:26.550 But first, you're listening to Heritage Radio 00:00:26.550 --> 00:00:32.460 Network. You know, I wanted to talk today about 00:00:32.460 --> 00:00:37.420 Modernist Cuisine. Do you think Modernist Cuisine 00:00:37.420 --> 00:00:40.939 is a book that has aged well or has the culinary 00:00:40.939 --> 00:00:44.679 world evolved in ways that make one's groundbreaking 00:00:44.679 --> 00:00:50.740 ideas or meanings outdated? I'm curious from 00:00:50.740 --> 00:00:54.840 your perspective if it still stands as a foundational 00:00:54.840 --> 00:00:59.359 text or... I don't know if newer techniques or 00:00:59.359 --> 00:01:03.119 even more so philosophies have overtaken its 00:01:03.119 --> 00:01:05.980 relevance. It's a good question. I mean, modernist 00:01:05.980 --> 00:01:08.659 cuisine was like, I remember when it came out, 00:01:08.739 --> 00:01:10.840 everybody was so excited about it. There was 00:01:10.840 --> 00:01:14.120 this big ass compendium of books. It was super 00:01:14.120 --> 00:01:15.980 expensive also. I don't even remember how much 00:01:15.980 --> 00:01:18.700 it was, but it was quite expensive. 500 euros, 00:01:18.859 --> 00:01:21.579 I remember. Five or 600, something like that. 00:01:23.310 --> 00:01:25.650 And I remember like going through it and, you 00:01:25.650 --> 00:01:28.530 know, like we were already sort of like past 00:01:28.530 --> 00:01:31.329 the whole like molecular kind of movement hype 00:01:31.329 --> 00:01:34.569 and the whole like scientific approach. I mean, 00:01:34.569 --> 00:01:37.510 like in that sort of way. But still, I feel like 00:01:37.510 --> 00:01:41.469 with El Bouyi and the movement that came from 00:01:41.469 --> 00:01:44.150 there, it kind of opened the doors for chefs 00:01:44.150 --> 00:01:48.290 to think about more on a molecular level, like 00:01:48.290 --> 00:01:50.689 what is happening. in what they're doing in the 00:01:50.689 --> 00:01:52.890 processes and i feel like modernist cuisine was 00:01:52.890 --> 00:01:56.209 a really cool piece of work published after that 00:01:56.209 --> 00:02:00.230 that broke down a lot of things and it's a i 00:02:00.230 --> 00:02:02.489 think still i haven't looked at it in many many 00:02:02.489 --> 00:02:06.290 many years i remember i got a copy of it a copy 00:02:06.290 --> 00:02:08.610 of like the compendium of books back when it 00:02:08.610 --> 00:02:11.030 came out it was like a big thing yeah i remember 00:02:11.030 --> 00:02:13.569 you left that copy at my house when you traveled 00:02:13.569 --> 00:02:17.289 like for two years to asia and i don't know where 00:02:17.289 --> 00:02:20.229 else I'm glad you didn't sell it like you did 00:02:20.229 --> 00:02:26.990 with my other shit. By the way, Adriano, if you're 00:02:26.990 --> 00:02:29.069 listening to this, I'm going to sell your fucking 00:02:29.069 --> 00:02:31.110 ice machine if you don't bring it home at some 00:02:31.110 --> 00:02:34.169 point. Okay, sorry. We can go on. I'm looking 00:02:34.169 --> 00:02:36.069 to buy an ice cream machine, actually. Yeah? 00:02:36.289 --> 00:02:41.069 Okay, we can talk after the show. Yeah, and I 00:02:41.069 --> 00:02:44.250 remember reading it and going through it. And 00:02:44.250 --> 00:02:45.889 you read it like a textbook, you know, and you're 00:02:45.889 --> 00:02:47.150 kind of like, oh, interesting. I never thought 00:02:47.150 --> 00:02:49.289 about this. I never thought about that. You know, 00:02:49.330 --> 00:02:51.889 I think it's like, I think it's an amazing book. 00:02:51.969 --> 00:02:54.849 Look, I'm not a very scientific chef. I like 00:02:54.849 --> 00:02:57.030 cooking by feeling. I like also like knowing 00:02:57.030 --> 00:03:00.509 and understanding what's going on, but it's definitely 00:03:00.509 --> 00:03:04.930 not at the forefront of how I work. You know, 00:03:04.930 --> 00:03:06.870 other chefs, they have a much bigger focus on 00:03:06.870 --> 00:03:09.210 that, right? Enzymatic reactions and this and 00:03:09.210 --> 00:03:11.409 that, you know, the sort of like. Well, I don't 00:03:11.409 --> 00:03:13.110 know, you know, restaurants like Alchemist and 00:03:13.110 --> 00:03:14.669 stuff like that, you know, there's a lot more 00:03:14.669 --> 00:03:17.490 technical knowledge. Whereas if you look at, 00:03:17.550 --> 00:03:20.370 for example, a kitchen like La Pêche in Paris 00:03:20.370 --> 00:03:22.650 with Alain Passat, you know, there's none of 00:03:22.650 --> 00:03:25.469 that. It's just pure, pure cooking, pure feeling, 00:03:25.490 --> 00:03:28.050 pure craft. I have like a slight disagreement 00:03:28.050 --> 00:03:30.729 because I think it's just different approaches 00:03:30.729 --> 00:03:33.360 on technique. But I won't say that La Paese is 00:03:33.360 --> 00:03:35.360 not technical. You know, it's like saying... 00:03:35.360 --> 00:03:37.039 Oh, no, no, no. It's like saying, like, I don't 00:03:37.039 --> 00:03:40.139 know, like a jazz freestyler, he's not technical 00:03:40.139 --> 00:03:42.180 because he's freestyling and he doesn't even 00:03:42.180 --> 00:03:45.479 know how to read music notes. I mean, but at 00:03:45.479 --> 00:03:47.240 the end of the day, he's doing dope music and 00:03:47.240 --> 00:03:50.039 he knows what he's doing. But I think there are 00:03:50.039 --> 00:03:53.680 these differences of maybe more sophisticated 00:03:53.680 --> 00:03:56.800 techniques, maybe techniques that involve formulation 00:03:56.800 --> 00:04:00.879 and understanding of reactions, while the other 00:04:00.879 --> 00:04:05.180 is more like a gut kind of cooking, right? No, 00:04:05.300 --> 00:04:07.039 absolutely. I totally agree with you. I wasn't 00:04:07.039 --> 00:04:08.659 trying to say that one is technical and the other 00:04:08.659 --> 00:04:10.699 is not. One thing that you said is interesting 00:04:10.699 --> 00:04:13.419 is sophisticated, because I don't think that... 00:04:13.719 --> 00:04:15.819 one is more sophisticated than the other you 00:04:15.819 --> 00:04:18.100 know this is like if you take your example of 00:04:18.100 --> 00:04:21.980 music you know um a very like classically trained 00:04:21.980 --> 00:04:25.759 orchestra musician is this person more sophisticated 00:04:25.759 --> 00:04:28.459 than somebody who does not know how to read music 00:04:28.459 --> 00:04:32.439 at all and it's just but it's just playing intrinsically 00:04:32.439 --> 00:04:35.519 or a drummer that is just you know you know like 00:04:35.519 --> 00:04:38.540 how many so many drummers you know that if you 00:04:38.540 --> 00:04:40.379 put a sheet of drum music in front of them they're 00:04:40.379 --> 00:04:42.199 like what is this you know but they can drum 00:04:42.569 --> 00:04:44.589 just because they kind of feel it. I don't think 00:04:44.589 --> 00:04:46.069 one is more sophisticated than the other, but 00:04:46.069 --> 00:04:47.649 you're totally right. I don't think that one 00:04:47.649 --> 00:04:50.250 is better than the other at all. It's just a 00:04:50.250 --> 00:04:51.829 different approach. What I was trying to say 00:04:51.829 --> 00:04:54.410 is that I'm from one approach, but I can still 00:04:54.410 --> 00:04:57.110 very much appreciate modernist cuisine as what 00:04:57.110 --> 00:04:59.250 it is, because it's super interesting. And I 00:04:59.250 --> 00:05:02.050 think it's impossible that as a chef who's interested 00:05:02.050 --> 00:05:04.670 in the craft, regardless of what you're interested 00:05:04.670 --> 00:05:07.889 in, that if you read it, it's going to give something 00:05:07.889 --> 00:05:10.029 to you. 100%. You're going to take something 00:05:10.029 --> 00:05:13.680 away from it. 100%. I agree. I agree. Phil, do 00:05:13.680 --> 00:05:16.220 you recommend podcasts to your friends? All the 00:05:16.220 --> 00:05:18.920 time. The best way of showing friends that you 00:05:18.920 --> 00:05:21.160 care is recommending a great podcast to listen 00:05:21.160 --> 00:05:24.439 to. I agree. If you're listening right now, you 00:05:24.439 --> 00:05:26.839 should show your love by recommending a show 00:05:26.839 --> 00:05:30.480 to all your best friends. It will make them happy. 00:05:30.540 --> 00:05:33.879 It will make us happy. PopLock Food Talks. Tell 00:05:33.879 --> 00:05:36.060 your friends. It will make the world a better 00:05:36.060 --> 00:05:41.329 place. You know, it came to my mind. I don't 00:05:41.329 --> 00:05:44.149 know if you ever saw the, it was from the American 00:05:44.149 --> 00:05:48.430 version of Iron Chef. There was an episode with 00:05:48.430 --> 00:05:51.069 Homaru Kanto. You know Homaru Kanto? He was the 00:05:51.069 --> 00:05:53.509 chef of a place called Moto that was ultra molecular. 00:05:53.769 --> 00:05:57.110 And I think he killed himself. I think he hanged 00:05:57.110 --> 00:05:59.730 himself in the kitchen, actually. Damn. Yeah. 00:05:59.930 --> 00:06:03.589 That Iron Chef episode for me was really interesting 00:06:03.589 --> 00:06:08.649 because he really embodied this whole. molecular 00:06:08.649 --> 00:06:12.389 cuisine approach where, where kitchens became 00:06:12.389 --> 00:06:15.990 like, maybe looking like a lab, you know, like, 00:06:15.990 --> 00:06:19.750 and there were different, I would say like, like, 00:06:19.750 --> 00:06:23.310 restaurant scenes with that approach. Notably, 00:06:23.370 --> 00:06:27.350 of course, Catalonia with El Bulli movement and 00:06:27.350 --> 00:06:32.310 all of that, but then also the Fat Dog in England, 00:06:32.370 --> 00:06:36.420 which was the seed. for modernist cuisine, because 00:06:36.420 --> 00:06:41.560 the chefs that wrote the book were from the Fat 00:06:41.560 --> 00:06:43.560 Dog. And then we also have Chicago, of course, 00:06:43.639 --> 00:06:46.139 where Moto was from, where this restaurant was 00:06:46.139 --> 00:06:49.660 located. And this Iron Chef episode, it was really 00:06:49.660 --> 00:06:51.860 striking, the difference between the two styles, 00:06:51.939 --> 00:06:54.220 because this was a clash of these two styles. 00:06:54.459 --> 00:06:58.300 I don't even remember the other chef, but I remember 00:06:58.300 --> 00:07:02.040 that Homaru Kanto was notably different. He was 00:07:02.040 --> 00:07:05.959 actually like, you know, with... tubes that you 00:07:05.959 --> 00:07:09.540 find in labs. And it was completely boring because 00:07:09.540 --> 00:07:12.100 what you want to see in an Iron Chef episode 00:07:12.100 --> 00:07:14.980 is actually someone, you know, like flambeing, 00:07:14.980 --> 00:07:18.399 burning stuff, and churning ice a la minute. 00:07:18.839 --> 00:07:21.740 Well, he was just doing very technical stuff. 00:07:22.040 --> 00:07:24.560 That's what I mean with technical. I'm not saying 00:07:24.560 --> 00:07:26.139 the other one is not technical, but this is more 00:07:26.139 --> 00:07:28.819 like I formulate something and then I just play 00:07:28.819 --> 00:07:31.180 two buttons and something really interesting 00:07:31.180 --> 00:07:35.319 comes. comes out with maybe an easy execution, 00:07:35.600 --> 00:07:39.879 but like a very sophisticated formulation and 00:07:39.879 --> 00:07:43.920 planning, right? And then this makes it maybe 00:07:43.920 --> 00:07:47.420 for someone less skilled or more intellectual 00:07:47.420 --> 00:07:50.240 into this kind of formulations and reactions 00:07:50.240 --> 00:07:53.800 and stuff to create also something interesting 00:07:53.800 --> 00:07:56.740 and surprising. And he won. He won. And for me, 00:07:56.759 --> 00:07:59.920 it was interesting that he won. Because everything 00:07:59.920 --> 00:08:03.579 looks so boring, right? Well, in Irish, you see 00:08:03.579 --> 00:08:06.319 all this acrobatics of chefs cooking and so. 00:08:06.740 --> 00:08:08.800 Like, these are these kind of things. I don't 00:08:08.800 --> 00:08:11.240 know if technique is the right word, but maybe 00:08:11.240 --> 00:08:14.240 like, yeah, like a different approach, a different 00:08:14.240 --> 00:08:17.879 methodology to cooking. Yeah, absolutely. And 00:08:17.879 --> 00:08:19.720 I mean, that is the cool, like one of the cool 00:08:19.720 --> 00:08:21.759 aspects of cooking. You know, there's so many 00:08:21.759 --> 00:08:24.800 different approaches. Have you ever watched the 00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:29.139 anime show Food Wars? No, no, no, no. It's such 00:08:29.139 --> 00:08:32.519 a cool representation of like different styles 00:08:32.519 --> 00:08:34.620 of cooking coming together and the sort of like 00:08:34.620 --> 00:08:37.740 advantages that maybe one style has, you know, 00:08:37.759 --> 00:08:39.320 where it's kind of like, you know, just like 00:08:39.320 --> 00:08:41.940 to really exaggerate, you know, you'll have like 00:08:41.940 --> 00:08:44.779 a stir fry chef going up against like a super 00:08:44.779 --> 00:08:48.419 minimalist, modern, molecular chef, you know, 00:08:48.419 --> 00:08:51.200 and they'll have to like have like a cook -off 00:08:51.200 --> 00:08:54.259 in like an arena. And it showcases really beautifully 00:08:54.259 --> 00:08:58.169 these moments that are like very intangible in 00:08:58.169 --> 00:09:01.110 cooking you know this this is the thing and this 00:09:01.110 --> 00:09:02.950 is also something that's always really fascinated 00:09:02.950 --> 00:09:05.929 me there's so much in cooking and in eating and 00:09:05.929 --> 00:09:09.289 in experiencing the depth of what cooking can 00:09:09.289 --> 00:09:12.850 be that's so intrinsical that you can almost 00:09:12.850 --> 00:09:15.860 not explain it in words Like when you've had 00:09:15.860 --> 00:09:19.019 an experience of going to, I remember, for example, 00:09:19.159 --> 00:09:21.820 I mean, not to like talk about Asia all the time, 00:09:21.840 --> 00:09:25.299 you know, I remember going to Navarra and going 00:09:25.299 --> 00:09:27.740 to this place, Casino, where this old woman was 00:09:27.740 --> 00:09:30.659 making tortillas and you eat the tortilla and 00:09:30.659 --> 00:09:33.740 you're like, what is happening? Why is this? 00:09:33.820 --> 00:09:37.000 This is incredible, right? This is so good. Or 00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:40.740 you go to a really amazing ramen place in Japan. 00:09:41.320 --> 00:09:43.340 And you take the first sip of the broth and it 00:09:43.340 --> 00:09:46.759 just like flushes through you. And if you look 00:09:46.759 --> 00:09:49.340 at that from the outside and you see somebody 00:09:49.340 --> 00:09:54.740 sipping soup and it's very hard to explain the 00:09:54.740 --> 00:09:56.600 sort of like emotional reaction that that can 00:09:56.600 --> 00:09:59.279 cause in you. But it's very cool because this 00:09:59.279 --> 00:10:01.980 show does showcase that, these like little magical 00:10:01.980 --> 00:10:05.159 moments. Cooking is very, very special. It's 00:10:05.159 --> 00:10:08.379 a very special craft because you have all these 00:10:09.240 --> 00:10:13.059 things that play into it that are very intangible 00:10:13.059 --> 00:10:16.059 and that you almost have to experience to understand 00:10:16.059 --> 00:10:21.179 them, right? And we have such a varied tool set 00:10:21.179 --> 00:10:24.100 at our hands. It's very natural that some people 00:10:24.100 --> 00:10:26.120 go into one way, some people go into another 00:10:26.120 --> 00:10:29.080 way. You know, somebody will find what really 00:10:29.080 --> 00:10:33.139 excites them and they will try to go as deep 00:10:33.139 --> 00:10:36.090 as they can into that. you know, and then somebody 00:10:36.090 --> 00:10:37.710 else will find something different, you know, 00:10:37.710 --> 00:10:40.049 somebody will, you know, like a pastry chef will 00:10:40.049 --> 00:10:45.649 get really into the super scientifically, chirurgically 00:10:45.649 --> 00:10:48.710 precise kind of like technique and have it all 00:10:48.710 --> 00:10:51.309 super exact, play with textures, play with this, 00:10:51.389 --> 00:10:53.330 play with that, play with the visual aspect. 00:10:53.509 --> 00:10:55.450 And somebody else might say, I don't care about 00:10:55.450 --> 00:10:58.610 the visual aspect. I care about the impact, you 00:10:58.610 --> 00:11:01.129 know, I care and everything else I don't care 00:11:01.129 --> 00:11:03.539 about. And that's why it's like compared to other 00:11:03.539 --> 00:11:06.360 crafts, it's very, very difficult to compare 00:11:06.360 --> 00:11:09.000 cooking because there's so much that plays into 00:11:09.000 --> 00:11:11.240 it that it's just not tangible. I think the word 00:11:11.240 --> 00:11:13.899 I was looking for is technological. I think one 00:11:13.899 --> 00:11:16.080 approach is more technological than the other. 00:11:16.480 --> 00:11:19.419 Right? Because, I mean, one of these super molecular 00:11:19.419 --> 00:11:23.019 chefs, he can't do nothing without many tools, 00:11:23.220 --> 00:11:25.559 right? Like at least a sous vide cooker, a thermometer, 00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:28.779 some whatever, right? Like a vacuum machine and 00:11:28.779 --> 00:11:30.799 some other stuff. While the other chef just needs 00:11:30.799 --> 00:11:33.580 a knife and a pot and can do magic with just 00:11:33.580 --> 00:11:35.700 that. For me, a very good example that comes 00:11:35.700 --> 00:11:38.419 to my mind right now, for example, are turning 00:11:38.419 --> 00:11:41.899 artichokes, right? That's something that requires 00:11:41.899 --> 00:11:46.299 skill. You need to have at least some basic pairing 00:11:46.299 --> 00:11:51.299 skills, right? Like to pair the artichoke, and 00:11:51.299 --> 00:11:55.000 also you need to understand the oxidation and 00:11:55.000 --> 00:11:57.799 the bath you're putting in, and keep them underwater, 00:11:58.220 --> 00:12:00.879 and there are a few things. These are many steps 00:12:00.879 --> 00:12:03.120 and many things you need to control to do that, 00:12:03.179 --> 00:12:05.480 and that's technical. But something that blew 00:12:05.480 --> 00:12:09.970 my mind was my friend John Basterrechea. He came 00:12:09.970 --> 00:12:12.289 once and he told me like, look at this. And he 00:12:12.289 --> 00:12:17.129 vacuumed the artichokes with just salt and olive 00:12:17.129 --> 00:12:20.809 oil and he steamed them and he paired them after 00:12:20.809 --> 00:12:23.830 steamed. And the things were perfect. And you 00:12:23.830 --> 00:12:27.190 skipped like 10 steps, right? Like something 00:12:27.190 --> 00:12:29.610 that would take like an hour to do, it would 00:12:29.610 --> 00:12:32.190 take him like 15 minutes because it was way easier 00:12:32.190 --> 00:12:34.809 to pair. And this is what I say, understanding 00:12:34.809 --> 00:12:38.389 these techniques and also at the end of the day, 00:12:38.750 --> 00:12:42.929 As a chef, you should always strive or aim at 00:12:42.929 --> 00:12:46.710 a specific desired result. And in this case is 00:12:46.710 --> 00:12:49.529 cooked artichokes, right? Like there are different 00:12:49.529 --> 00:12:53.049 ways to get that. And sometimes technology like 00:12:53.049 --> 00:12:55.809 a steamer or in this case, a vacuum machine, 00:12:55.870 --> 00:12:57.669 you need it because you could also cook it like 00:12:57.669 --> 00:13:00.700 in water or whatever. But yeah, like specific 00:13:00.700 --> 00:13:03.980 timing, specific steaming temperature, and you 00:13:03.980 --> 00:13:07.320 have like a super nice result, right? And I think 00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:09.860 these are the advantages of these technological 00:13:09.860 --> 00:13:13.919 tools. Where do you think that restaurant scenes 00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:18.019 are moving forward to nowadays? Like, are they 00:13:18.019 --> 00:13:21.799 becoming more technical, more discourse -driven, 00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:24.700 or what's your thought on that? That's a good 00:13:24.700 --> 00:13:27.700 question. I think we're in one of the most exciting 00:13:27.700 --> 00:13:31.179 times. of restaurants i think it's just gotten 00:13:31.179 --> 00:13:33.799 exponentially more and more exciting and like 00:13:33.799 --> 00:13:36.759 bigger and bigger and i think that it's very 00:13:36.759 --> 00:13:40.340 diversified i think that there's people are a 00:13:40.340 --> 00:13:43.480 lot more educated when it comes to food they 00:13:43.480 --> 00:13:46.600 know a lot more and there's a lot more variety 00:13:47.309 --> 00:13:49.590 in like where they can go and not just where 00:13:49.590 --> 00:13:51.169 they can go as in restaurants you know but like 00:13:51.169 --> 00:13:53.590 also how they cook themselves how they eat you 00:13:53.590 --> 00:13:55.950 know where do ingredients come from like what 00:13:55.950 --> 00:13:58.309 what is my diet like what what do i want it to 00:13:58.309 --> 00:14:01.110 be you know there's so many trends left and right 00:14:01.110 --> 00:14:03.629 and up and down and back and forth you know sort 00:14:03.629 --> 00:14:06.490 of like and then it's molecular then it's nordic 00:14:06.490 --> 00:14:08.230 and then it's like a lot of foraging and then 00:14:08.230 --> 00:14:10.210 it's a lot of fermentation and then it's all 00:14:10.210 --> 00:14:12.840 like archaic It's a lot of open fire cooking. 00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:15.200 And then it's kind of like, let's move away from 00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:17.139 the modern food. Let's go back to super traditional 00:14:17.139 --> 00:14:20.320 basics. Let's go away from the like aesthetic 00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:22.379 driven. I put a herb here, I put a herb there. 00:14:23.019 --> 00:14:26.480 And like all these tendencies, they like exist. 00:14:27.259 --> 00:14:31.120 But nowadays, I feel like instead of just having 00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:34.259 like one or two that are like predominant, we 00:14:34.259 --> 00:14:37.120 have a lot more and people have a lot more variety 00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:40.139 to choose. Like, for example, here in Dubai. 00:14:40.570 --> 00:14:42.330 The restaurant scene is still relatively young. 00:14:42.789 --> 00:14:46.509 Four years ago, it was very one -sided. It was 00:14:46.509 --> 00:14:49.590 like big places. The food was all very similar. 00:14:49.769 --> 00:14:52.429 You had items that you knew that people loved, 00:14:52.590 --> 00:14:54.990 right? You know, people like Wagyu. You always 00:14:54.990 --> 00:14:56.970 have Wagyu steaks on the menu. You knew that 00:14:56.970 --> 00:14:59.289 people like young chickens, baby chickens, right? 00:14:59.509 --> 00:15:01.230 So you always have like a roasted baby chicken 00:15:01.230 --> 00:15:04.049 boneless on there. I could name you like five, 00:15:04.269 --> 00:15:06.990 six, seven, eight restaurants that have almost 00:15:06.990 --> 00:15:09.169 identical dishes on the menu because you know 00:15:09.169 --> 00:15:11.100 that they're crowd favorites. And it was very 00:15:11.100 --> 00:15:13.659 strange to me. Very, very strange. So everywhere 00:15:13.659 --> 00:15:15.440 I would go, I'd be sort of like, oh, that's their 00:15:15.440 --> 00:15:17.179 version of the baby chicken. That's their version. 00:15:17.340 --> 00:15:19.399 I would say you have the same here, like the 00:15:19.399 --> 00:15:23.840 Basque style of grilling. I mean, the chuleta 00:15:23.840 --> 00:15:26.820 and the grilled fish. You will find this in pretty 00:15:26.820 --> 00:15:29.039 much any restaurant or any grill house. All of 00:15:29.039 --> 00:15:31.629 them, you know, like. That's true. But obviously, 00:15:31.830 --> 00:15:33.649 the Basque country has a lot like a bigger, rich 00:15:33.649 --> 00:15:36.049 history of their own food. You know, you have, 00:15:36.049 --> 00:15:37.809 of course, restaurants that have Emirati food, 00:15:37.909 --> 00:15:39.710 but all these restaurants, they're not traditional 00:15:39.710 --> 00:15:42.429 from here. You know, they're a concept that has 00:15:42.429 --> 00:15:44.169 been made that's completely something else. But 00:15:44.169 --> 00:15:46.350 nowadays, there's a lot more restaurants opening 00:15:46.350 --> 00:15:49.090 up that try to break out of that. I think it's 00:15:49.090 --> 00:15:50.889 very interesting what you just said, because 00:15:50.889 --> 00:15:53.590 probably the reason is, I don't know anything 00:15:53.590 --> 00:15:55.970 about Emirati, but I guess like many of these 00:15:55.970 --> 00:15:58.610 Arab tribes, their diets were like a very... 00:15:58.879 --> 00:16:02.159 desert surviving kind of diet. Like, I don't 00:16:02.159 --> 00:16:04.580 know, maybe it's a similar problem to what happened 00:16:04.580 --> 00:16:07.799 in the Nordic countries before the Nordic movement, 00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:10.860 that their traditions were potatoes and sausages 00:16:10.860 --> 00:16:13.940 for, in this case, for religious reasons, but 00:16:13.940 --> 00:16:16.700 in the other case can be like for survival reasons. 00:16:16.840 --> 00:16:19.340 I don't know. It would be interesting to check 00:16:19.340 --> 00:16:24.289 on that. Yeah, definitely. But also, you know, 00:16:24.330 --> 00:16:27.750 the Dubai market is, you know, just to a very 00:16:27.750 --> 00:16:29.870 small amount made up of locals. I mean, I would 00:16:29.870 --> 00:16:32.809 say like maximum 50%, right? And the other 50 00:16:32.809 --> 00:16:36.169 % are expats, if not more, I think, in your general 00:16:36.169 --> 00:16:39.490 populace of like your customer base. You know, 00:16:39.509 --> 00:16:41.750 like now you have a lot more restaurants that 00:16:41.750 --> 00:16:43.970 are breaking out of that. But that is also only 00:16:43.970 --> 00:16:48.639 possible because bit by bit. people have become 00:16:48.639 --> 00:16:50.899 more educated about food so all these restaurants 00:16:50.899 --> 00:16:53.440 that did a very specific style and they're all 00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:55.820 always kind of like we do this this this this 00:16:55.820 --> 00:16:57.840 this because we know people like it and then 00:16:57.840 --> 00:16:59.620 little by little the other day we talked about 00:16:59.620 --> 00:17:02.840 gently educating customers you know and little 00:17:02.840 --> 00:17:04.420 by little things get introduced a little bit 00:17:04.420 --> 00:17:06.220 here a little bit there like for example here 00:17:06.220 --> 00:17:10.160 in the arab world people don't necessarily like 00:17:10.160 --> 00:17:13.319 eating raw food meat is always cooked medium 00:17:13.319 --> 00:17:16.700 well to well done No blood. It's, you know, for 00:17:16.700 --> 00:17:18.960 religious reasons. And they don't eat raw food. 00:17:19.099 --> 00:17:23.079 So beef tataki, no way. Sashimi, no way, you 00:17:23.079 --> 00:17:26.559 know. So, but little by little, you kind of teach 00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:29.500 them. You show them, you know. For religious 00:17:29.500 --> 00:17:31.380 reasons, obviously, you know, hey, nothing to 00:17:31.380 --> 00:17:33.319 teach, nothing to show, right? That's your choice. 00:17:33.579 --> 00:17:36.339 But if it's just something learned and you're 00:17:36.339 --> 00:17:37.839 kind of like, well, I'm not really used to it. 00:17:37.900 --> 00:17:39.359 I feel like maybe it's kind of gross and you're 00:17:39.359 --> 00:17:41.180 sort of like, well, give it a try. Maybe I'll 00:17:41.180 --> 00:17:43.259 put it in a way, maybe instead of cooking the 00:17:43.259 --> 00:17:45.869 salmon, I'll torch it. It's half raw. And then 00:17:45.869 --> 00:17:47.609 you eat it and you're like, this is very nice, 00:17:47.670 --> 00:17:50.269 you know, and then kind of you build up to it. 00:17:50.650 --> 00:17:53.309 And nowadays we have so many restaurants emerging 00:17:53.309 --> 00:17:55.250 that are breaking out of this and that are more 00:17:55.250 --> 00:17:57.869 restaurants that I like to go to. Small places 00:17:57.869 --> 00:18:02.329 that are not focused on a big vibe, party, luxury, 00:18:02.650 --> 00:18:05.289 whatever, you know, like you have to have a DJ, 00:18:05.410 --> 00:18:08.069 whatever. But they're just about go. It's really 00:18:08.069 --> 00:18:10.269 good food. It's really good drinks. It's good 00:18:10.269 --> 00:18:13.289 service. It's a nice atmosphere. And like, that's 00:18:13.289 --> 00:18:15.009 it. But yeah, like I said, it's only possible 00:18:15.009 --> 00:18:17.869 because you had years of kind of building up 00:18:17.869 --> 00:18:19.809 to that. If people would have come here five, 00:18:20.009 --> 00:18:22.309 six, 10 years ago, and they would have said, 00:18:22.329 --> 00:18:25.150 I'm going to open a small Mexican place with 00:18:25.150 --> 00:18:29.529 just like mariscos and tostadas and blood for 00:18:29.529 --> 00:18:31.970 like a hundred people, people would have told 00:18:31.970 --> 00:18:33.630 you, you're crazy. Like, okay, where are you 00:18:33.630 --> 00:18:35.650 going to put the DJ? Where are you going to, 00:18:35.650 --> 00:18:37.269 you're not going to have bottle service. Are 00:18:37.269 --> 00:18:39.049 you crazy? You're not going to last a year, you 00:18:39.049 --> 00:18:41.589 know? So I think to answer your question, kind 00:18:41.589 --> 00:18:43.690 of like go sidetracked a little bit, but I think 00:18:43.690 --> 00:18:45.390 we're in a super exciting time gastronomically 00:18:45.390 --> 00:18:47.569 because there's such a big variety. People know 00:18:47.569 --> 00:18:49.849 much more what's going on. People are also not 00:18:49.849 --> 00:18:52.609 afraid to kind of stick to what they like. And 00:18:52.609 --> 00:18:54.029 it's sort of like, hey, if I want to eat big 00:18:54.029 --> 00:18:55.670 steaks and I want them well done, you know, I 00:18:55.670 --> 00:18:57.710 know that I can go somewhere where like I can 00:18:57.710 --> 00:19:00.390 get that and I can get that at a good price. 00:19:00.569 --> 00:19:02.470 In my restaurant, for example, like you can go 00:19:02.470 --> 00:19:04.450 and you can have a well done steak. That's not 00:19:04.450 --> 00:19:07.220 shit because it's important that... You're kind 00:19:07.220 --> 00:19:08.440 of like, well, if you want to eat well -done 00:19:08.440 --> 00:19:11.059 sticklets, at least try to make it, let me at 00:19:11.059 --> 00:19:13.700 least try to source a meat that makes it not 00:19:13.700 --> 00:19:16.819 completely inedible. Dude, recently I had some 00:19:16.819 --> 00:19:21.339 guests on a food tour and it really hurt me because 00:19:21.339 --> 00:19:25.440 they were like, at some point on the tour, I 00:19:25.440 --> 00:19:27.859 explained how the fish is grilled here and some 00:19:27.859 --> 00:19:29.700 traditional dishes, how they're cooked and how 00:19:29.700 --> 00:19:32.839 the chuleta is cooked. And basically that here, 00:19:33.160 --> 00:19:38.660 the chuleta is rare. Like red, you know, like 00:19:38.660 --> 00:19:41.980 almost bleeding. And they told me like, and I 00:19:41.980 --> 00:19:43.740 explained the whole process because it's not 00:19:43.740 --> 00:19:45.200 like something common sense the way it's done. 00:19:45.319 --> 00:19:48.380 And there are some reasons. And for me, it's 00:19:48.380 --> 00:19:51.039 my favorite way to eat meat. They told me just 00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:53.200 the day before they were at Casa Julian, one 00:19:53.200 --> 00:19:55.220 of the best steakhouses in the world. And they 00:19:55.220 --> 00:19:58.019 didn't like it because their meat was very rare. 00:19:58.140 --> 00:20:00.859 And I was heartbroken, you know, because it was 00:20:00.859 --> 00:20:04.309 like, dude, like you go to Casa Julian. And they 00:20:04.309 --> 00:20:07.049 told me, like, after you explain here the whole 00:20:07.049 --> 00:20:09.470 thing, now we understand because everything you 00:20:09.470 --> 00:20:12.170 said is exactly how it was. You know, it was 00:20:12.170 --> 00:20:14.849 red, but warm and soft and only salt and this 00:20:14.849 --> 00:20:17.670 and that. Sometimes eating something without 00:20:17.670 --> 00:20:21.309 context or without understanding gives you a 00:20:21.309 --> 00:20:23.630 bad experience. Maybe just a little explanation 00:20:23.630 --> 00:20:27.240 will help you. to enjoy it, you know, especially 00:20:27.240 --> 00:20:30.799 if it's something new and unknown for you. And 00:20:30.799 --> 00:20:33.519 I think what you just said is not a process exclusive 00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:37.900 to Dubai. I would say in the whole Western world, 00:20:38.019 --> 00:20:40.819 like learning how to eat sushi in the last decades, 00:20:40.980 --> 00:20:43.799 that was a process, you know, like being afraid 00:20:43.799 --> 00:20:48.339 of raw fish and to the point that today sushi 00:20:48.339 --> 00:20:50.839 is more trendy than ever. I know this because 00:20:50.839 --> 00:20:54.690 I was looking on some trend research tools. And 00:20:54.690 --> 00:20:59.569 it went from mid -end to casual restaurants to 00:20:59.569 --> 00:21:02.750 now to cheap food that you find everywhere, at 00:21:02.750 --> 00:21:05.269 least in the States. So it has become like, it's 00:21:05.269 --> 00:21:07.609 more trendy than ever and it's more consumed 00:21:07.609 --> 00:21:10.849 than ever in America, which is, you know, today, 00:21:11.069 --> 00:21:13.730 2025, which is very interesting, you know? Yeah, 00:21:13.750 --> 00:21:16.190 absolutely. It's a learning process. Sometimes 00:21:16.190 --> 00:21:18.190 you just have to give things another go. But 00:21:18.190 --> 00:21:20.529 like, I also love the fact that things don't 00:21:20.529 --> 00:21:22.450 have to change that much. You know, the whole 00:21:22.450 --> 00:21:26.279 sort of like, american chinese thing where settlers 00:21:26.279 --> 00:21:28.220 come they have to change their food for like 00:21:28.220 --> 00:21:30.740 the local taste that's something like while that's 00:21:30.740 --> 00:21:33.900 also valid and fine and also important like for 00:21:33.900 --> 00:21:35.460 example here i have a friend who just opened 00:21:35.460 --> 00:21:37.500 a mexican place and they make all the food less 00:21:37.500 --> 00:21:40.339 spicy because they know that if they make it 00:21:40.339 --> 00:21:42.700 too spicy all the locals are going to complain 00:21:42.700 --> 00:21:44.339 because they don't have a culture of eating very 00:21:44.339 --> 00:21:47.799 spicy right yeah but while that's like a necessity 00:21:47.799 --> 00:21:50.940 and it's also like not bad because american chinese 00:21:50.940 --> 00:21:53.279 food is cool Like the stuff that came out of 00:21:53.279 --> 00:21:55.480 it is cool. You know, it's like a different thing. 00:21:55.519 --> 00:21:57.759 Is it traditional Chinese? No. Right. But it's 00:21:57.759 --> 00:22:00.000 like a new thing. And that's totally cool and 00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:01.819 fine as well. And it's super interesting. But 00:22:01.819 --> 00:22:03.920 at the same time, I'm super happy that we're 00:22:03.920 --> 00:22:06.559 in a time where there's also places that don't 00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:09.180 feel like they need to change anything. For example, 00:22:09.180 --> 00:22:11.960 in Berlin, there's a place called Labkoi and 00:22:11.960 --> 00:22:14.299 they cook Thai food. They're very, very outspoken. 00:22:14.319 --> 00:22:15.940 I think they even have like a sign on the door 00:22:15.940 --> 00:22:20.559 that says, if you don't like spicy food. Maybe 00:22:20.559 --> 00:22:22.819 consider going somewhere else because we're not 00:22:22.819 --> 00:22:26.220 going to change the recipes to your liking. We're 00:22:26.220 --> 00:22:28.480 going to make them exactly how they are supposed 00:22:28.480 --> 00:22:31.400 to be made, but they will be spicy. If you don't 00:22:31.400 --> 00:22:33.059 want spicy food, maybe this isn't the place for 00:22:33.059 --> 00:22:35.960 you. And I love that. Some people are outraged 00:22:35.960 --> 00:22:37.420 by that because they're sort of like, why can't 00:22:37.420 --> 00:22:38.920 you make it less spicy for me? I don't like spicy 00:22:38.920 --> 00:22:41.339 food. But then again, we're in the same territory 00:22:41.339 --> 00:22:43.220 like we were last time. We're kind of like, well. 00:22:43.900 --> 00:22:46.000 why do you go to a sushi place and ask for pizza? 00:22:46.339 --> 00:22:48.420 Why would you go to a northern Thai place and 00:22:48.420 --> 00:22:51.420 ask for things that are not spicy? Not ask for 00:22:51.420 --> 00:22:52.759 things that are not spicy, because there are 00:22:52.759 --> 00:22:54.839 things on the menu that are less spicy. But if 00:22:54.839 --> 00:22:57.279 you ask for the jungle curry that's made a specific 00:22:57.279 --> 00:22:59.839 way with specific chilies, specific quantities, 00:23:00.079 --> 00:23:03.160 that it says it's very spicy, and you say, hey, 00:23:03.200 --> 00:23:05.619 can you make it less spicy? It doesn't work like 00:23:05.619 --> 00:23:08.359 that. You can't order the Wagyu steak and tell 00:23:08.359 --> 00:23:10.559 me, please make it less fatty. It just doesn't 00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:14.400 work. We had a complaint. It was sort of like 00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:17.839 I ordered the A5 Japanese Wagyu. I ordered the 00:23:17.839 --> 00:23:21.279 A5 Japanese Wagyu and it was too fatty. Ignorance 00:23:21.279 --> 00:23:24.480 is very daring, my friend. Hey, Phil, have you 00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:27.420 subscribed to our newsletter yet? We have a newsletter? 00:23:27.799 --> 00:23:30.740 What's a newsletter about, Eric? Every month 00:23:30.740 --> 00:23:33.119 we share one cool thing from the world of food 00:23:33.119 --> 00:23:36.019 and restaurants and occasionally a recipe we 00:23:36.019 --> 00:23:39.140 swore we'd never share. Like your secret boiled 00:23:39.140 --> 00:23:42.359 egg lemon tart recipe. But Eric, that was my 00:23:42.359 --> 00:23:46.039 grandma's secret recipe. Not anymore. Subscribe 00:23:46.039 --> 00:23:48.980 to our newsletter where we unveil all of Phil's 00:23:48.980 --> 00:23:54.680 grandmother's secrets. So this whole conversation 00:23:54.680 --> 00:23:57.720 brings me to a question from one of our listeners 00:23:57.720 --> 00:24:00.059 that I know you are going to like very much. 00:24:00.180 --> 00:24:03.460 He says, how do you not fall into the trap of 00:24:03.460 --> 00:24:06.640 gentrifying traditional food? What are your thoughts 00:24:06.640 --> 00:24:10.700 on this one? My thoughts on this question are 00:24:10.700 --> 00:24:14.099 that I don't understand the question. To me, 00:24:14.119 --> 00:24:16.799 it sounds like a nonsense question. The trap. 00:24:17.019 --> 00:24:20.319 What's the trap? You know, what is the trap? 00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:24.019 What does it mean to... What does it mean to 00:24:24.019 --> 00:24:27.400 gentrify a traditional dish? It's such a wide 00:24:27.400 --> 00:24:29.920 thing. I do get it. I do get it. At least like 00:24:29.920 --> 00:24:33.759 this is my take on that one. I think this is 00:24:33.759 --> 00:24:35.960 like what we talk about on the Barcelona episode 00:24:35.960 --> 00:24:38.759 where I mentioned that suddenly like a whole 00:24:38.759 --> 00:24:42.619 neighborhood becomes populated by expats who 00:24:42.619 --> 00:24:44.920 speak English and all the traditional places 00:24:44.920 --> 00:24:48.960 are gone. And then some traditions start to become 00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:54.980 designed to cater. this audience right like and 00:24:54.980 --> 00:24:57.460 the traditional catalan place you won't find 00:24:57.460 --> 00:25:00.019 them in those neighborhoods anymore even though 00:25:00.019 --> 00:25:03.000 it's in the middle of the capital of catalonia 00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:07.240 like i guess this is uh the point i didn't read 00:25:07.240 --> 00:25:08.859 it i didn't read it like that at all actually 00:25:08.859 --> 00:25:11.640 i the way that i read the question sort of like 00:25:11.640 --> 00:25:16.279 if you make a modern version of traditional food 00:25:16.279 --> 00:25:20.509 how do you not gentrify that food When you're 00:25:20.509 --> 00:25:23.829 taking it out of the traditional framework. That's 00:25:23.829 --> 00:25:26.309 also an interesting point because it's a way 00:25:26.309 --> 00:25:28.910 you understand traditions, right? Like I think 00:25:28.910 --> 00:25:32.789 I was recently talking with John Reggefalk, who 00:25:32.789 --> 00:25:37.089 recently returned from a trip to China. And he 00:25:37.089 --> 00:25:39.950 tells me that what he saw there, he has really 00:25:39.950 --> 00:25:43.150 the feeling that many places where he ate, that 00:25:43.150 --> 00:25:46.559 this chef, they do only one thing. And, you know, 00:25:46.599 --> 00:25:48.740 like a special whatever, a special soup or a 00:25:48.740 --> 00:25:52.839 special, like in this little vending, vending, 00:25:52.839 --> 00:25:54.900 no, like this little food vendors, you know, 00:25:54.920 --> 00:25:56.980 like, and they do that to perfection. And they 00:25:56.980 --> 00:25:59.460 probably learned that from some master that taught 00:25:59.460 --> 00:26:01.539 them how to do that. And probably that's the 00:26:01.539 --> 00:26:04.099 only thing they know how to do, like very good. 00:26:04.160 --> 00:26:06.460 And they're not thinking about changing anything 00:26:06.460 --> 00:26:11.599 or innovating or being creative or pushing boundaries 00:26:11.599 --> 00:26:15.599 or anything. And that's. 100 % traditional and 00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:19.099 who knows how old that tradition is or where 00:26:19.099 --> 00:26:23.160 it evolved from, right? I guess it's that versus 00:26:23.160 --> 00:26:29.059 doing a paella with Oreo or recently I saw dude 00:26:29.059 --> 00:26:34.480 like a savory black ink, like a squid ink cheesecake 00:26:34.480 --> 00:26:43.980 with fried calamari on top. You know, like. That's 00:26:43.980 --> 00:26:48.920 horrible. Yes. It was like a black cheesecake 00:26:48.920 --> 00:26:52.400 with fried calamari on top. And that's like, 00:26:52.700 --> 00:26:55.400 yeah, there are many heresies happening on that 00:26:55.400 --> 00:26:59.700 one at the same time, you know? Oh my God, that's 00:26:59.700 --> 00:27:02.240 horrible. Just to kind of clarify, the meaning 00:27:02.240 --> 00:27:05.240 of gentrification, the process whereby the character 00:27:05.240 --> 00:27:08.079 of a poor urban area is changed by wealthier 00:27:08.079 --> 00:27:10.440 people moving in. improving housing attracting 00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:12.960 new businesses often displacing current inhabitants 00:27:12.960 --> 00:27:16.980 of the process so i think maybe the word gentrification 00:27:16.980 --> 00:27:19.759 is poorly chosen when you're talking about traditional 00:27:19.759 --> 00:27:22.619 food because gentrification the term has nothing 00:27:22.619 --> 00:27:24.920 to do with you know it has very much to do with 00:27:24.920 --> 00:27:27.660 an area and the ecosystem there you know the 00:27:27.660 --> 00:27:30.180 urban ecosystem so that's why i kind of read 00:27:30.180 --> 00:27:32.240 the question like that what's a fine line to 00:27:32.240 --> 00:27:34.779 to walk and it's also something that i don't 00:27:34.779 --> 00:27:39.349 think that can be generalized right If I make 00:27:39.349 --> 00:27:41.690 a modern version of a German dish, right? Okay, 00:27:41.730 --> 00:27:44.769 German, okay, German, maybe bad example. I make 00:27:44.769 --> 00:27:47.789 a modern version of a traditional Oaxacan dish 00:27:47.789 --> 00:27:52.309 as a Mexican chef. Am I gentrifying this Oaxacan 00:27:52.309 --> 00:27:54.829 tradition? Or am I just making something? Am 00:27:54.829 --> 00:27:57.210 I just like making something that I feel like 00:27:57.210 --> 00:28:00.769 making? Is the line that if I'm not Mexican, 00:28:00.950 --> 00:28:05.470 if I'm from, let's say, Chile or Peru? Am I then 00:28:05.470 --> 00:28:07.309 gentrifying it by making something that's not 00:28:07.309 --> 00:28:09.630 my quotation marks, my own culture? But like, 00:28:09.650 --> 00:28:11.809 where do we stop? If I'm Mexican, but I'm not 00:28:11.809 --> 00:28:14.829 from Oaxaca, am I then stepping over the line? 00:28:14.910 --> 00:28:16.269 Like, where do you draw the line? I feel this 00:28:16.269 --> 00:28:19.150 is very, very personal, like impossible to say. 00:28:19.329 --> 00:28:21.990 We talked about it previously. I think that if 00:28:21.990 --> 00:28:25.250 you're respectful of traditions and appreciative, 00:28:25.470 --> 00:28:27.789 you come from a place of appreciation, just do 00:28:27.789 --> 00:28:29.690 whatever the fuck you want. Food is an expression. 00:28:30.299 --> 00:28:32.819 Just make something that excites you, that you 00:28:32.819 --> 00:28:34.500 think is cool. It doesn't matter if the other 00:28:34.500 --> 00:28:37.200 people think it's cool. I mean, it does if they're 00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:40.680 your customers, maybe a little bit. But man, 00:28:40.759 --> 00:28:43.430 just fuck that. This whole conversation brings 00:28:43.430 --> 00:28:44.950 me to the thought, like, you were just talking 00:28:44.950 --> 00:28:47.569 about Chinese -American, which is its own thing, 00:28:47.609 --> 00:28:50.390 and it's different from Chinese from China, or 00:28:50.390 --> 00:28:54.829 Japanese from Peru, or even like the false soup 00:28:54.829 --> 00:28:57.990 in Vietnam, which was created to cater foreigners 00:28:57.990 --> 00:29:01.069 who would prefer beef instead of pork or chicken. 00:29:01.410 --> 00:29:04.769 So they started doing like this beef soups for 00:29:04.769 --> 00:29:07.569 the French that were living in Vietnam, and today... 00:29:07.960 --> 00:29:10.940 So that's already like an example of gentrification 00:29:10.940 --> 00:29:15.299 that generated a new tradition. I think like 00:29:15.299 --> 00:29:18.119 traditions, especially in food, is something 00:29:18.119 --> 00:29:20.980 evolving just like language, you know, like just 00:29:20.980 --> 00:29:24.160 like a word becomes trendy and everybody starts 00:29:24.160 --> 00:29:28.819 using it or an expression or a slang. I guess 00:29:28.819 --> 00:29:31.920 like the same happens with recipes that go from. 00:29:32.569 --> 00:29:35.670 from someone to another or a restaurant to another, 00:29:35.910 --> 00:29:40.269 and they nourish themselves with influences of, 00:29:40.490 --> 00:29:44.769 yeah, like plating trends or cooking technique 00:29:44.769 --> 00:29:49.430 trends, but being anchored in the archetype of 00:29:49.430 --> 00:29:52.569 the traditional one, but just doing, like, new 00:29:52.569 --> 00:29:55.950 twists around it. And I think that's how it works 00:29:55.950 --> 00:29:58.269 and how it always has worked, like, since the 00:29:58.269 --> 00:30:00.890 beginning of cooking, you know? Absolutely. It's 00:30:00.890 --> 00:30:02.470 like, you know, but it's kind of like, well, 00:30:02.589 --> 00:30:05.769 if it's recent and if it's happening now, people 00:30:05.769 --> 00:30:08.609 seem to kind of, like, rate it differently than 00:30:08.609 --> 00:30:10.250 when it happened, like, a hundred years ago, 00:30:10.289 --> 00:30:12.329 which is not a long time ago. You know, like, 00:30:12.430 --> 00:30:14.509 you say, like, perfect example, you know, of, 00:30:14.589 --> 00:30:17.430 like, the beef soup or, like, banh mi, you know? 00:30:17.490 --> 00:30:21.660 Banh mi. Baguette. worldwide phenomenon everybody 00:30:21.660 --> 00:30:24.539 loves it vietnamese amazing what's in there it's 00:30:24.539 --> 00:30:27.200 baguette there's pate in there you know like 00:30:27.200 --> 00:30:29.339 and it's like well why do you think that happened 00:30:29.339 --> 00:30:32.400 because some french people came in and gentrified 00:30:32.400 --> 00:30:35.079 it's like the the area that was like okay cool 00:30:35.079 --> 00:30:37.099 there's good science there's good aspects to 00:30:37.099 --> 00:30:40.349 it that's actually what happened yeah of course 00:30:40.349 --> 00:30:42.069 it's like there's good sides to it there's bad 00:30:42.069 --> 00:30:44.309 sides to it but it's just like a part of the 00:30:44.309 --> 00:30:47.569 the world you know things are ever changing and 00:30:47.569 --> 00:30:50.769 evolving but if a chef nowadays says like hey 00:30:50.769 --> 00:30:52.849 i'm gonna make this traditional dish i'm gonna 00:30:52.849 --> 00:30:54.789 change it and suddenly people stuff like oh you're 00:30:54.789 --> 00:30:57.569 gentrifying the i don't know you know or like 00:30:57.569 --> 00:31:01.390 um somebody moves to a new country and says hey 00:31:01.390 --> 00:31:03.990 i'm gonna cook my food but i'm gonna use local 00:31:03.990 --> 00:31:05.990 ingredients and they're like well are you gentrifying 00:31:05.990 --> 00:31:08.940 the tradition it's like no I don't know. I don't 00:31:08.940 --> 00:31:11.759 see it like that. And I think food should be 00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:14.240 a form of expression. And I think people should 00:31:14.240 --> 00:31:16.440 be free to do whatever they want as long as they're 00:31:16.440 --> 00:31:18.240 respectful and come from a place of appreciation. 00:31:18.700 --> 00:31:21.539 I think people should just chill the fuck out 00:31:21.539 --> 00:31:24.200 a little bit more. Yeah. Stay in school, kids, 00:31:24.359 --> 00:31:35.549 and don't do drugs. After this fun... Fun, sound 00:31:35.549 --> 00:31:38.109 experience. It's time for our beloved segment, 00:31:38.390 --> 00:31:45.470 Go Fact Yourself. Go fact yourself. The cooking 00:31:45.470 --> 00:31:49.809 myth today is searing meat locks in the juices. 00:31:50.190 --> 00:31:52.269 I think this was already solved many years ago 00:31:52.269 --> 00:31:55.809 by Heston Blumenthal on his show. I think it 00:31:55.809 --> 00:31:58.349 was Gastronomic Lab or Culinary Lab. I don't 00:31:58.349 --> 00:32:00.190 remember the name, but that was the first time 00:32:00.190 --> 00:32:03.630 I first saw Heston Blumenthal ever. It wasn't 00:32:03.630 --> 00:32:05.849 a TV show. I was starting in culinary school 00:32:05.849 --> 00:32:08.269 at the moment. And I was like, oh, that guy, 00:32:08.589 --> 00:32:12.849 he looks pretty legit. And so I Googled who he 00:32:12.849 --> 00:32:15.190 was, and suddenly that year it was best restaurant 00:32:15.190 --> 00:32:16.910 in the world, and he had three Michelin stars. 00:32:17.210 --> 00:32:19.509 And I was like, what the fuck? I thought it was 00:32:19.509 --> 00:32:21.829 just a TV show, you know, like with some chef 00:32:21.829 --> 00:32:25.730 doing stuff. Some random geeky, geeky scientist. 00:32:25.750 --> 00:32:27.329 Yeah, exactly, like whatever, you know. Suddenly 00:32:27.329 --> 00:32:29.069 it was the best chef of the world with three 00:32:29.069 --> 00:32:31.150 mission stars. Yeah, he did an experiment on 00:32:31.150 --> 00:32:33.710 that. I think he even overseered a piece of meat 00:32:33.710 --> 00:32:37.430 with a torch, you know, like he burned it and 00:32:37.430 --> 00:32:40.450 then he squeezed both pieces and he measured 00:32:40.450 --> 00:32:43.950 the juices coming out and at the end the result 00:32:43.950 --> 00:32:46.880 was it's bullshit. All right, before we reveal 00:32:46.880 --> 00:32:49.680 the answer, dear listener, now is your time to 00:32:49.680 --> 00:32:53.779 give us the response. All right, cue your answer 00:32:53.779 --> 00:32:59.039 in three, two, one. All right, if you said that 00:32:59.039 --> 00:33:02.160 it's true, then I feel sorry for you. It's definitely 00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:04.720 not true. It's been proven by now, scientifically, 00:33:05.019 --> 00:33:09.500 that searing meat actually makes it lose more 00:33:09.500 --> 00:33:12.500 juices than other cooking methods. You know, 00:33:12.559 --> 00:33:15.680 I think by searing meats, it loses about like 00:33:15.680 --> 00:33:18.680 six to 10 % of its juice. Brings to question, 00:33:18.839 --> 00:33:21.759 which doesn't mean that something seared or searing 00:33:21.759 --> 00:33:24.420 something makes it not juicy, right? But what 00:33:24.420 --> 00:33:26.220 happens is when we sear something, especially 00:33:26.220 --> 00:33:27.900 meats, you know, there's something that's called 00:33:27.900 --> 00:33:30.440 the Maya reaction. That's the reason why you 00:33:30.440 --> 00:33:35.430 sear it. That's the reason why you sear it. By 00:33:35.430 --> 00:33:40.009 browning it, you're generating pure, juicy deliciousness. 00:33:40.089 --> 00:33:44.089 Well, not juicy, like more dry, but pure deliciousness. 00:33:44.230 --> 00:33:46.589 And that's what you want. Yeah, it's interesting, 00:33:46.829 --> 00:33:51.289 actually. My reaction creates a... a literal 00:33:51.289 --> 00:33:54.450 reaction between amino acids and sugars and the 00:33:54.450 --> 00:33:57.170 surface of whatever you're browning and it makes 00:33:57.170 --> 00:34:00.049 certain compounds that were not tasty or had 00:34:00.049 --> 00:34:03.450 no taste at all suddenly tasty for us like biologically 00:34:03.450 --> 00:34:06.349 and like thousands of compounds that combine 00:34:06.349 --> 00:34:10.369 they generate this as distinctive aromas that 00:34:10.369 --> 00:34:14.329 you find in for example roasted meat or roasted 00:34:14.329 --> 00:34:18.599 whatever And there you go. Just another example 00:34:18.599 --> 00:34:20.920 of earlier talking about modernist cuisine that 00:34:20.920 --> 00:34:23.679 a little bit of scientific knowledge goes a long 00:34:23.679 --> 00:34:26.380 way. Put down the joint, open a book once in 00:34:26.380 --> 00:34:30.480 a while, and go fact yourself. Wrong about cooking. 00:34:31.980 --> 00:34:33.739 Don't get mad, get factual.