WEBVTT 00:00:04.350 --> 00:00:06.889 Hi, everyone. Welcome to Pot Luck Food Talks, 00:00:06.889 --> 00:00:10.150 the show where professional cooks trade stories, 00:00:10.330 --> 00:00:13.550 weird opinions, and bad ideas that everybody 00:00:13.550 --> 00:00:17.350 likes. My name is Eric. I'm here with Phil. I 00:00:17.350 --> 00:00:19.829 wanted to talk about El Bulli, man. What are 00:00:19.829 --> 00:00:23.769 your ideas about El Bulli? Do you support the 00:00:23.769 --> 00:00:27.469 claim that it's the most influential restaurant 00:00:27.469 --> 00:00:31.030 ever? Do you believe that? Do you think that's 00:00:31.030 --> 00:00:34.030 truth or not? But before that... You're listening 00:00:34.030 --> 00:00:40.329 to Heritage Radio Network. Ever is a big word, 00:00:40.429 --> 00:00:44.130 right? Okay, 21st century. I would say so, for 00:00:44.130 --> 00:00:49.850 sure. El Bouy has shaped modern gastronomy, especially 00:00:49.850 --> 00:00:53.030 in the Michelin realm, immensely. Immensely. 00:00:53.090 --> 00:00:57.799 I mean, undoubtedly so. together with, you know, 00:00:57.820 --> 00:00:59.939 the movements in France, the new avant -garde, 00:01:00.039 --> 00:01:03.280 the nouvelle cuisine, El Puy. It's crazy. So 00:01:03.280 --> 00:01:05.420 many restaurants that function like the way that 00:01:05.420 --> 00:01:08.140 they are now, the designs that have come out 00:01:08.140 --> 00:01:11.120 of it, the techniques, so much stems from El 00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:13.540 Puy, I think, more than people realize. Yeah, 00:01:13.579 --> 00:01:16.599 I completely agree. And so I was going to ask 00:01:16.599 --> 00:01:18.900 you, like, what, like, in terms of restaurant 00:01:18.900 --> 00:01:22.849 systems? But like the central table for mise 00:01:22.849 --> 00:01:25.469 en place, like in modern kitchens, that's something 00:01:25.469 --> 00:01:28.150 that was coined by them. Like having like a long 00:01:28.150 --> 00:01:33.430 prep table where if you have 12, 15, 20 cooks, 00:01:33.569 --> 00:01:36.170 everybody's doing the same thing. So if there 00:01:36.170 --> 00:01:39.310 is a potato to be peeled, everybody peels potatoes 00:01:39.310 --> 00:01:41.439 and there they're done. and then the next thing, 00:01:41.519 --> 00:01:42.920 and the next thing, and the next thing. And I 00:01:42.920 --> 00:01:45.680 remember doing this at Mugaritz, and all of the 00:01:45.680 --> 00:01:48.480 restaurants that stemmed out of El Bulli used 00:01:48.480 --> 00:01:50.620 this approach. And I think it's very useful because, 00:01:50.680 --> 00:01:53.359 especially with large teams, with smaller teams, 00:01:53.540 --> 00:01:57.959 maybe not, but it's this feedback you get right 00:01:57.959 --> 00:02:00.519 away of, oh, no, you're doing it wrong, or you're 00:02:00.519 --> 00:02:02.599 too slow, or you're faster, because the whole 00:02:02.599 --> 00:02:07.120 team works like an engine, you know, like a production 00:02:07.120 --> 00:02:11.099 machine that is... Doing whatever. I mentioned 00:02:11.099 --> 00:02:13.939 peeling potatoes, but it can be very complicated 00:02:13.939 --> 00:02:17.740 stuff like, I don't know, deboning a squab or 00:02:17.740 --> 00:02:19.659 something like that. You know, like this kind 00:02:19.659 --> 00:02:22.439 of thing that it's better to have someone who 00:02:22.439 --> 00:02:24.759 knows how to do it just in front of you and watch 00:02:24.759 --> 00:02:27.719 closely and imitate. Yeah, absolutely. I also, 00:02:27.759 --> 00:02:31.289 I really liked that when I was in Mucaritz. It's 00:02:31.289 --> 00:02:33.669 a very interesting style of prep. I don't see 00:02:33.669 --> 00:02:36.229 it that much anymore, honestly, but it definitely 00:02:36.229 --> 00:02:39.150 has its place. And yeah, for sure, it stems from 00:02:39.150 --> 00:02:41.509 El Bui. And it's cool, you know, like to have 00:02:41.509 --> 00:02:44.449 this like prep table and to, you know, like you're 00:02:44.449 --> 00:02:49.030 like Frenching a French trimming a rack of suckling 00:02:49.030 --> 00:02:52.490 pig. and everybody wants to do it the best and 00:02:52.490 --> 00:02:54.810 the cleanest and the fastest right and if you're 00:02:54.810 --> 00:02:57.090 working with fuckers like me you know you're 00:02:57.090 --> 00:02:59.389 having a really bad time because i'm going to 00:02:59.389 --> 00:03:01.389 be like i'm going to look at your rack of rack 00:03:01.389 --> 00:03:03.590 of cycling pick i'm going to be like chef you 00:03:03.590 --> 00:03:06.889 wanna you want to revisit that or like you we 00:03:06.889 --> 00:03:09.030 used to have competitions about it you know who 00:03:09.030 --> 00:03:10.810 could do it the fastest we would do the cleanest 00:03:10.810 --> 00:03:13.930 pushes yourself also you know But also everybody's 00:03:13.930 --> 00:03:16.129 involved. Everybody's on the same level. Kevin 00:03:16.129 --> 00:03:19.310 was your nemesis. Nah, man, I didn't really have 00:03:19.310 --> 00:03:21.930 that with Kevin, unfortunately. I mean, fortunately 00:03:21.930 --> 00:03:25.370 for me, I guess, because Kevin is a fucking machine. 00:03:26.810 --> 00:03:35.110 My two biggest peers were Iñaki Mbolumburu and 00:03:35.110 --> 00:03:40.800 Santiago... Mr. Amalur. Shout out to him. Great 00:03:40.800 --> 00:03:43.819 cook, great guy. And Santiago Lastra, who now 00:03:43.819 --> 00:03:47.479 owns Col in London. He's got a Michelin star 00:03:47.479 --> 00:03:53.419 and he's doing modern or contemporary with a 00:03:53.419 --> 00:03:58.780 strong basis on fermentation of Mexican food, 00:03:58.919 --> 00:04:01.139 which I think is super interesting. It's basically 00:04:01.139 --> 00:04:03.900 Mexican Noma in London. He's like the Gagan of 00:04:03.900 --> 00:04:08.400 Mexican food, you know. But talking about Noma, 00:04:08.539 --> 00:04:11.240 Noma, again, super influential, right? One of 00:04:11.240 --> 00:04:12.819 the most influential restaurants of our time. 00:04:12.900 --> 00:04:15.360 Also, I would say Noma is definitely up there 00:04:15.360 --> 00:04:16.879 when you talk about one of the most influential 00:04:16.879 --> 00:04:19.300 restaurants of our time, when we talk about avant 00:04:19.300 --> 00:04:20.879 -garde cooking and Michelin star cooking and 00:04:20.879 --> 00:04:24.920 stuff like that. But Rene Redzepi was a stagiaire 00:04:24.920 --> 00:04:27.879 in El Puy and then went back to open Noma together 00:04:27.879 --> 00:04:30.779 with Klaus Meyer and a lot of the systems that 00:04:30.779 --> 00:04:34.230 were, you know. Adapted there, they came from 00:04:34.230 --> 00:04:36.709 El Bouy, like the prep, the stagies, the kitchen 00:04:36.709 --> 00:04:40.329 layout, you know, the menu setup. He also stashed 00:04:40.329 --> 00:04:42.610 out the French Laundry, which I think is like 00:04:42.610 --> 00:04:44.649 a very interesting combination, going to both 00:04:44.649 --> 00:04:46.730 of these restaurants that both have like this 00:04:46.730 --> 00:04:51.189 strong traditions and systems and stuff, and 00:04:51.189 --> 00:04:53.269 combining it with a complete different approach, 00:04:53.430 --> 00:04:55.509 because Naumann has nothing to do with El Bouy 00:04:55.509 --> 00:04:59.050 or French Laundry in terms of their conceptual 00:04:59.050 --> 00:05:02.209 proposal. You know, it's like a... Like a complete 00:05:02.209 --> 00:05:05.110 different direction. Hey, Phil, have you subscribed 00:05:05.110 --> 00:05:07.769 to our newsletter yet? We have a newsletter? 00:05:08.129 --> 00:05:11.029 What's a newsletter about, Eric? Every month 00:05:11.029 --> 00:05:13.449 we share one cool thing from the world of food 00:05:13.449 --> 00:05:16.350 and restaurants and occasionally a recipe we 00:05:16.350 --> 00:05:19.470 swore we'd never share. Like your secret boiled 00:05:19.470 --> 00:05:22.689 egg lemon tart recipe. But Eric, that was my 00:05:22.689 --> 00:05:26.370 grandma's secret recipe. Not anymore. Subscribe 00:05:26.370 --> 00:05:29.310 to our newsletter where we unveil all of Phil's 00:05:29.310 --> 00:05:36.319 grandmother's secrets. When did you discover 00:05:36.319 --> 00:05:38.620 El Bulli? Do you remember that? Like the first 00:05:38.620 --> 00:05:41.240 time you heard about it or you saw it or anything? 00:05:41.519 --> 00:05:44.079 Yeah, I do actually. I was already like very 00:05:44.079 --> 00:05:46.579 into cooking even before I started cooking. I 00:05:46.579 --> 00:05:49.240 think I must have been like 14. I was already 00:05:49.240 --> 00:05:52.720 informing myself about so much regarding cooking. 00:05:52.879 --> 00:05:55.600 And I was in the process of coming to the conclusion 00:05:55.600 --> 00:05:57.160 that I wanted to become a professional chef. 00:05:57.319 --> 00:05:59.480 I was considering a couple of other things. And 00:05:59.480 --> 00:06:01.899 El Bulli, like I grew up in Spain. El Bulli, 00:06:01.939 --> 00:06:03.819 obviously a big name. I don't really remember 00:06:03.819 --> 00:06:06.560 how I found out about them, but I got like really 00:06:06.560 --> 00:06:10.920 fascinated by this idea. And my parents got me 00:06:10.920 --> 00:06:15.300 one of the El Bouy books as a present. So I was 00:06:15.300 --> 00:06:18.680 already in my like teenage room before I ever 00:06:18.680 --> 00:06:22.220 started to cook. Okay, but you mentioned like 00:06:22.220 --> 00:06:25.160 this idea. What is this idea? And secondly, of 00:06:25.160 --> 00:06:27.600 course, which book? So the book was A Day in 00:06:27.600 --> 00:06:31.930 El Bouy. I don't know if you know it. Ah. Of 00:06:31.930 --> 00:06:35.889 course, I have it. This idea of cooking as a 00:06:35.889 --> 00:06:43.089 very high craft with no boundaries. I mean, a 00:06:43.089 --> 00:06:45.550 couple of boundaries, obviously, but boundaries 00:06:45.550 --> 00:06:48.089 that can definitely also be broken. And I thought 00:06:48.089 --> 00:06:52.970 it was fascinating. I was fascinated by somebody 00:06:52.970 --> 00:06:58.529 taking steps into the unknown with the basis 00:06:58.529 --> 00:07:01.560 of cooking. craft that they were doing right 00:07:01.560 --> 00:07:04.560 rooted in tradition rooted in nature and just 00:07:04.560 --> 00:07:08.100 going going beyond and i remember like reading 00:07:08.100 --> 00:07:10.339 this book and being so fascinated by the fact 00:07:10.339 --> 00:07:12.879 that you you know what a restaurant is like you 00:07:12.879 --> 00:07:15.000 go in you prep you have service you do it all 00:07:15.000 --> 00:07:17.819 over again and the way that they were sort of 00:07:17.819 --> 00:07:20.519 like describing how the creative development 00:07:20.519 --> 00:07:23.759 worked how the day is set up you know the chefs 00:07:23.759 --> 00:07:25.819 come in they do their prep how the kitchen is 00:07:25.819 --> 00:07:28.060 set up how the menus are set up how they do the 00:07:28.060 --> 00:07:31.040 dish tastings et cetera, et cetera. I just thought 00:07:31.040 --> 00:07:36.639 it was fascinating. In my case, I was even thinking 00:07:36.639 --> 00:07:39.160 about becoming a chef. I did like a cook course 00:07:39.160 --> 00:07:43.240 with a relatively famous chef. Well, not actually 00:07:43.240 --> 00:07:45.459 a well -known chef in Venezuela, Elena Ibarra. 00:07:45.560 --> 00:07:48.939 And this was like a show cooking course, you 00:07:48.939 --> 00:07:51.959 know, like she would cook with an assistant and 00:07:51.959 --> 00:07:55.230 there were like six people or... maybe eight 00:07:55.230 --> 00:07:58.790 or ten, sitting at a bar counter, and she would 00:07:58.790 --> 00:08:01.810 cook and explain, and so it was like half dinner, 00:08:01.870 --> 00:08:06.129 half course, show cooking kind of thing. And 00:08:06.129 --> 00:08:09.329 somebody asked her about Ferran Adria, and she 00:08:09.329 --> 00:08:12.389 was like, well, yeah, it's like a completely 00:08:12.389 --> 00:08:16.250 different approach, because I remember she literally 00:08:16.250 --> 00:08:20.269 saying, for example, if you get a tortilla, a 00:08:20.269 --> 00:08:24.029 potato omelette made by him, he will... break 00:08:24.029 --> 00:08:28.029 it apart and make a foam and put the potatoes 00:08:28.029 --> 00:08:29.930 on top and give it to you in a martini glass. 00:08:30.209 --> 00:08:31.990 And I thought this was like a metaphor, like 00:08:31.990 --> 00:08:34.289 whatever, like a thing. But that's an actual 00:08:34.289 --> 00:08:36.429 dish from El Bulli, you know, like it's one of 00:08:36.429 --> 00:08:39.610 the classics from El Bulli, which was not created 00:08:39.610 --> 00:08:42.690 by Ferran Adrià. He actually took it from Xavier 00:08:42.690 --> 00:08:45.830 de Sagristat, which is a legendary Catalan chef. 00:08:45.990 --> 00:08:49.490 But yeah, and I think that's a great finger food. 00:08:49.570 --> 00:08:52.539 I've had it like in... you know, like these cocktail 00:08:52.539 --> 00:08:55.220 events, and then these glasses arrive with this 00:08:55.220 --> 00:08:58.100 tortilla that you scoop from a martini glass, 00:08:58.320 --> 00:09:01.240 and it's super nice. But yeah, this idea of, 00:09:01.399 --> 00:09:07.480 at the beginning, he had this trend that he called, 00:09:07.539 --> 00:09:09.039 I'm talking about Ferran Adrià, the head chef 00:09:09.039 --> 00:09:13.039 at El Bulli, and maybe like the architect of 00:09:13.039 --> 00:09:16.200 these ideas, he would call it the construction. 00:09:16.860 --> 00:09:19.659 I heard that at the beginning, they would call 00:09:19.659 --> 00:09:23.789 it... Decomposition. Which sounds like Rotterdick. 00:09:23.889 --> 00:09:25.950 And they sound like that. Maybe that doesn't 00:09:25.950 --> 00:09:29.049 sound so good. So the idea is that you have a 00:09:29.049 --> 00:09:32.070 composition, you break it into parts, and you 00:09:32.070 --> 00:09:34.529 rebuild it in a different way. And that's something 00:09:34.529 --> 00:09:37.870 they would do a lot, especially in the 90s. And 00:09:37.870 --> 00:09:42.210 it's one of the signature thought stands from 00:09:42.210 --> 00:09:46.159 El Bulli, doing that. And, yeah, this idea of, 00:09:46.460 --> 00:09:49.379 like you say, like, for me, the first thing that 00:09:49.379 --> 00:09:51.399 came to my mind, yeah, was, like, modern art. 00:09:51.659 --> 00:09:54.820 Like, taking food and turning it into, like, 00:09:54.940 --> 00:09:58.659 these strange designs, and the dishes would look 00:09:58.659 --> 00:10:02.919 like sometimes, like, micro -ecosystems, or sometimes 00:10:02.919 --> 00:10:06.480 just, like, one item, and you would eat it. Not 00:10:06.480 --> 00:10:08.259 even a dish, but something that you would have, 00:10:08.419 --> 00:10:10.220 like, because they had, I don't know, like, it 00:10:10.220 --> 00:10:13.039 was a lot. I think it was, like... 30 courses 00:10:13.039 --> 00:10:15.539 per menu or something like that. And some of 00:10:15.539 --> 00:10:17.480 these courses were just a smell. They would give 00:10:17.480 --> 00:10:19.840 you something. You would smell it. Okay, next. 00:10:20.080 --> 00:10:24.820 And these things bring you to this journey of... 00:10:25.070 --> 00:10:28.470 and sensations and stuff that you offer. And 00:10:28.470 --> 00:10:30.769 I found that to be extremely interesting, especially 00:10:30.769 --> 00:10:33.429 as a culinary student. Yeah, absolutely. It's 00:10:33.429 --> 00:10:35.929 kind of like this school that's kind of like, 00:10:36.029 --> 00:10:38.210 well, why do we do certain things this way? Why 00:10:38.210 --> 00:10:41.190 can't it be something else? Why not? Let's explore 00:10:41.190 --> 00:10:43.830 that option. Also, like, obviously, we're talking 00:10:43.830 --> 00:10:46.690 about El Puy, we have to talk about Sosa and 00:10:46.690 --> 00:10:49.490 about all the ingredients and the techniques 00:10:49.490 --> 00:10:53.090 that were developed in that time that are now... 00:10:53.360 --> 00:10:58.179 Almost a staple standard in, you know, a vast 00:10:58.179 --> 00:11:01.279 amount of kitchens, you know, the use of xantana, 00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:06.080 of agar -agar, of lecithin, right? That came 00:11:06.080 --> 00:11:09.580 from the food industry rather than restaurants. 00:11:09.960 --> 00:11:13.080 And that is so commonplace now, you know, even 00:11:13.080 --> 00:11:15.759 in small neighborhood restaurants like wine bars 00:11:15.759 --> 00:11:19.340 and stuff, you'll find a tub of xantana or agar 00:11:19.340 --> 00:11:22.190 -agar or like whatever it is, soy lecithin. And 00:11:22.190 --> 00:11:26.269 it's crazy to think about the fact that they 00:11:26.269 --> 00:11:29.450 established that. At some point, they were prohibited 00:11:29.450 --> 00:11:31.610 in restaurants in Italy. I don't actually. Do 00:11:31.610 --> 00:11:33.370 you remember that? Yeah. They were banned. It 00:11:33.370 --> 00:11:35.690 was illegal. It was illegal to use Xantana in 00:11:35.690 --> 00:11:38.730 Italy. And you would see chefs burning. Yeah, 00:11:38.830 --> 00:11:41.529 we don't want this shit here. This is that. I 00:11:41.529 --> 00:11:43.990 don't know if that's still the case, but I remember 00:11:43.990 --> 00:11:46.649 reading that in the newspaper. This was in the 00:11:46.649 --> 00:11:49.669 mid -2000s. I don't remember that. It's definitely 00:11:49.669 --> 00:11:52.309 not the case anymore. I mean, so many of the 00:11:52.309 --> 00:11:56.610 Italian Michelin star chefs, for me, are so very 00:11:56.610 --> 00:11:59.090 decompositioned to a point where I'm sort of 00:11:59.090 --> 00:12:01.509 like, what is going on? It's such a normal thing 00:12:01.509 --> 00:12:04.169 to use now, like sherry vinegar. You have it 00:12:04.169 --> 00:12:06.250 in your cupboard. I remember at the beginning 00:12:06.250 --> 00:12:10.529 they had the... So they would commercialize all 00:12:10.529 --> 00:12:14.710 of these agents, like emulsify agents or thickening 00:12:14.710 --> 00:12:17.850 agents or all this kind of stuff that, as you 00:12:17.850 --> 00:12:20.190 say, they took it from the food industry. Maybe 00:12:20.190 --> 00:12:25.090 also one milestone we can forget about or ignore 00:12:25.090 --> 00:12:29.250 are the foams, you know, like these guys. I remember 00:12:29.250 --> 00:12:31.830 reading a quote, I don't remember from who, that 00:12:31.830 --> 00:12:36.429 said that innovation is seeing what everybody 00:12:36.429 --> 00:12:40.059 sees. and finding a way to use it nobody has 00:12:40.059 --> 00:12:43.500 ever done before, right? Or that could be an 00:12:43.500 --> 00:12:45.899 approach of innovation. And I think that's pretty 00:12:45.899 --> 00:12:48.919 much what they did. So there were these chantilly 00:12:48.919 --> 00:12:52.399 devices that you would use to whip cream, and 00:12:52.399 --> 00:12:56.559 you would add cream, and just add some CO2. What 00:12:56.559 --> 00:12:59.620 is it? No, it's not CO2. And then you have this 00:12:59.620 --> 00:13:02.919 chantilly foam. So using the same device, we're 00:13:02.919 --> 00:13:08.610 putting... potatoes or whatever even cod or corn 00:13:08.610 --> 00:13:11.309 and doing these foams with completely different 00:13:11.309 --> 00:13:15.029 things they just there were some rules that it 00:13:15.029 --> 00:13:17.309 needs to have like some protein some gelatin 00:13:17.309 --> 00:13:20.929 or some fat or in order to become a foam but 00:13:20.929 --> 00:13:23.210 yeah creating like like a whole new category 00:13:23.210 --> 00:13:27.090 of dishes that didn't exist previously and it's 00:13:27.090 --> 00:13:31.190 not like a huge boom for a while i think today 00:13:31.190 --> 00:13:34.220 it's already it's demo day like nobody those 00:13:34.220 --> 00:13:37.799 forms anymore i think or at least not the way 00:13:37.799 --> 00:13:40.039 they were being done 20 years ago i still do 00:13:40.039 --> 00:13:47.080 what are your opinions you brought up an interesting 00:13:47.080 --> 00:13:49.460 point it's sort of like oh it needs to have some 00:13:49.460 --> 00:13:51.159 protein needs to have a certain amount of fat 00:13:51.159 --> 00:13:55.179 our understanding of things that we have as chefs 00:13:55.179 --> 00:13:59.059 nowadays has deepened so much you know like for 00:13:59.059 --> 00:14:03.629 example One of the most famous dishes from El 00:14:03.629 --> 00:14:06.009 Bouilly, the carrot foam. And, you know, there's 00:14:06.009 --> 00:14:08.269 like this glass bowl that's like cut angular, 00:14:08.549 --> 00:14:11.570 you know, and it's sort of like foaming it up 00:14:11.570 --> 00:14:13.590 and it's like creating these sort of like soapy 00:14:13.590 --> 00:14:15.110 bubbles almost. And it's like, yeah, because 00:14:15.110 --> 00:14:18.029 carrot has a lot of natural lecithin, you know, 00:14:18.029 --> 00:14:20.129 and like nowadays I'm in the kitchen and I'm 00:14:20.129 --> 00:14:21.769 sort of like, yeah, you know, you can add a splash 00:14:21.769 --> 00:14:24.250 of milk because it has like, you know, it'll 00:14:24.250 --> 00:14:26.250 add like, you know, protein and lecithin to it 00:14:26.250 --> 00:14:28.899 and it'll foam up easier. You know, Noma did 00:14:28.899 --> 00:14:30.980 the same thing with fermentation, right? Like 00:14:30.980 --> 00:14:34.000 our knowledge as chefs with fermentation, enzymatic 00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:36.700 reactions, all that sort of stuff, you know, 00:14:36.740 --> 00:14:41.059 is so much vaster. And El Bouy did the same with 00:14:41.059 --> 00:14:43.419 these sorts of things, right? Like it deepened 00:14:43.419 --> 00:14:45.440 the understanding of what things actually are 00:14:45.440 --> 00:14:47.620 and not just taking them for granted. This almost 00:14:47.620 --> 00:14:50.080 scientific approach, some people can get into 00:14:50.080 --> 00:14:52.860 it, cool, you don't have to, but it has enriched 00:14:52.860 --> 00:14:54.820 our knowledge and our understanding of the craft 00:14:54.820 --> 00:14:58.090 itself. And that's pretty big. Phil! Did you 00:14:58.090 --> 00:15:01.090 know we've already made nine episodes of The 00:15:01.090 --> 00:15:04.549 Line? Oh, really? People sure love our crazy 00:15:04.549 --> 00:15:07.389 abuse stories working in restaurants. Yes, they 00:15:07.389 --> 00:15:10.149 do. But now we're interested in our listeners' 00:15:10.370 --> 00:15:13.730 stories. Oh, yay. I would love to listen to more 00:15:13.730 --> 00:15:16.110 crazy stories about people getting abused in 00:15:16.110 --> 00:15:18.929 restaurants. So if anything crazy ever happened 00:15:18.929 --> 00:15:21.529 to you working in professional kitchens, if you 00:15:21.529 --> 00:15:24.149 want people to make fun of your disgraces the 00:15:24.149 --> 00:15:27.590 same way we make fun of our disgraces, send us 00:15:27.590 --> 00:15:30.289 your stories from the line and we'll feature 00:15:30.289 --> 00:15:33.750 them on the show. DM us on Instagram, send it 00:15:33.750 --> 00:15:36.690 as a text or voice note. We'll share our favorite 00:15:36.690 --> 00:15:39.389 ones in the next Little Line episode. So keep 00:15:39.389 --> 00:15:42.570 it short and sweet. Because trauma brings people 00:15:42.570 --> 00:15:46.809 together. There are also like a lot of things 00:15:46.809 --> 00:15:49.649 we don't even think about that were coined or 00:15:49.649 --> 00:15:52.450 introduced or popularized by Bully. You know, 00:15:52.490 --> 00:15:56.269 like there's this documentary. It's like a extremely 00:15:56.269 --> 00:15:59.899 long documentary that is the whole. whole, whole, 00:15:59.899 --> 00:16:02.399 whole story of El Bulli, you know, like, because 00:16:02.399 --> 00:16:04.740 El Bulli started in, like, in the mid -70s. I 00:16:04.740 --> 00:16:06.559 don't know if even earlier, but, yeah, at the 00:16:06.559 --> 00:16:08.500 beginning, it was, like, just a restaurant next 00:16:08.500 --> 00:16:11.019 to the beach with grill, and then they started 00:16:11.019 --> 00:16:14.840 bringing chefs from France, and then the level 00:16:14.840 --> 00:16:16.279 got a little bit better and better and better, 00:16:16.440 --> 00:16:19.679 and then at some point, Ferran got there, and 00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:22.600 for some reason, very young, he became the head 00:16:22.600 --> 00:16:26.919 chef, I think in 1982, which is a while ago, 00:16:27.039 --> 00:16:29.960 you know, like a while. Way, way longer than 00:16:29.960 --> 00:16:32.299 we think about El Bulli. I think El Bulli started 00:16:32.299 --> 00:16:35.919 to become relevant 10 years later than that with 00:16:35.919 --> 00:16:39.840 the books of Mediterranean cuisine. And in 94, 00:16:39.960 --> 00:16:42.600 I think it was already like a top player, like 00:16:42.600 --> 00:16:45.399 a place people would talk about. I think 98, 00:16:45.559 --> 00:16:48.480 they got the third Michelin star and also some 00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:51.879 articles in the New York Times that made it. 00:16:52.039 --> 00:16:55.740 Yes. king of the culinary world for at least 00:16:55.740 --> 00:16:58.980 10 years after that. But yeah, like in the early 00:16:58.980 --> 00:17:03.259 phases, and in this documentary, they tell how 00:17:03.259 --> 00:17:06.000 they... So they claim in this documentary that 00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:09.599 they were the first one to do plated desserts 00:17:09.599 --> 00:17:12.869 like... Like we understand a plated dessert today. 00:17:13.009 --> 00:17:16.150 Not, you know, like cutting a cake slice and 00:17:16.150 --> 00:17:18.869 putting some dots of sauce around or having a 00:17:18.869 --> 00:17:22.710 bowl where you put like a peach melba, you know, 00:17:22.730 --> 00:17:24.369 like that. You put a marmalade and a bowl of 00:17:24.369 --> 00:17:26.690 ice on top. Like this kind of, no, I'm talking 00:17:26.690 --> 00:17:29.109 about like a composition, like a complex composition 00:17:29.109 --> 00:17:32.670 that you would usually only do for the savory 00:17:32.670 --> 00:17:36.549 cuisine and the sweet domain. I think that's 00:17:36.549 --> 00:17:39.460 a hard claim. to say that. And I can't think 00:17:39.460 --> 00:17:42.619 of a way to counter -argument it, saying, no, 00:17:42.700 --> 00:17:46.059 this and this person was already doing painting 00:17:46.059 --> 00:17:48.940 desserts in the 80s or something like that. So 00:17:48.940 --> 00:17:50.799 I think that's something interesting to check. 00:17:50.920 --> 00:17:54.279 Absolutely. And that's crazy. I mean, I'll buy 00:17:54.279 --> 00:17:57.920 it, honestly. And it's crazy to think about because 00:17:57.920 --> 00:18:00.279 that's something that we do so naturally. Now 00:18:00.279 --> 00:18:02.119 we kind of think about, when I start thinking 00:18:02.119 --> 00:18:05.400 about doing desserts... that are like not traditional 00:18:05.400 --> 00:18:07.319 you know i'm kind of like okay i started thinking 00:18:07.319 --> 00:18:09.039 about different components like an ice cream 00:18:09.039 --> 00:18:12.279 here this that blah and it's so natural and i 00:18:12.279 --> 00:18:15.400 mean that kind of brings us to another very very 00:18:15.400 --> 00:18:17.660 big very important point if we talk about el 00:18:17.660 --> 00:18:21.980 bui which is albert adria you know and the the 00:18:21.980 --> 00:18:25.140 impact that albert has has had on the culinary 00:18:25.140 --> 00:18:29.990 world not just with pastry is I think he coined 00:18:29.990 --> 00:18:32.670 the term sweet cuisine. This is not pastry. This 00:18:32.670 --> 00:18:35.150 is sweet cuisine, like cuisine on the sweet side. 00:18:35.390 --> 00:18:38.809 Also his book, The Desserts of El Bulli, that's 00:18:38.809 --> 00:18:41.789 like a super cool book. And this was written 00:18:41.789 --> 00:18:44.450 in the mid -90s as well. And it's a book you 00:18:44.450 --> 00:18:48.990 still can see and use. Well, he created, which 00:18:48.990 --> 00:18:51.230 is a recipe I actually learned for the first 00:18:51.230 --> 00:18:55.529 time from Michael Hopfel, which is a whipped 00:18:55.529 --> 00:18:58.430 crema catalana. So he came up with this stuff 00:18:58.430 --> 00:19:03.309 that you use. You do basically like a creme anglaise, 00:19:03.470 --> 00:19:08.349 but very fatty with only cream, only egg yolks. 00:19:08.589 --> 00:19:11.690 And then you whip it and the foam sets once you 00:19:11.690 --> 00:19:15.069 whip it with a KitchenAid. Or you can use also 00:19:15.069 --> 00:19:19.029 a whipping siphon. This is a pastry elaboration 00:19:19.029 --> 00:19:23.029 that a guy like Michael Heffel was doing just 00:19:23.029 --> 00:19:25.619 like that. So it's something that... chefs know 00:19:25.619 --> 00:19:29.700 and do is that like a you know like a new thing 00:19:29.700 --> 00:19:32.660 in the family of creme patissiere creme anglaise 00:19:32.660 --> 00:19:35.319 and now you have this in that family of elaborations 00:19:35.319 --> 00:19:37.660 and it was created by him and there is no discussion 00:19:37.660 --> 00:19:39.640 about that this is something people know yeah 00:19:39.640 --> 00:19:41.859 yeah absolutely i mean there's so many examples 00:19:41.859 --> 00:19:45.140 of that and it's nuts right i mean sort of like 00:19:45.140 --> 00:19:46.819 if somebody came to you right and it was sort 00:19:46.819 --> 00:19:49.660 of like hey here's a kitchen come up with a technique 00:19:49.660 --> 00:19:52.980 that's never been done before it's fucking difficult. 00:19:53.279 --> 00:19:55.799 I mean, go ahead and try, right? But people have 00:19:55.799 --> 00:19:58.160 been cooking for a long fucking time, and people 00:19:58.160 --> 00:19:59.799 have had a lot of fucking time on their hands. 00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:02.859 It's hard. Like, everything has been done before. 00:20:03.319 --> 00:20:05.619 What did El Bouy come up with? You know, it's 00:20:05.619 --> 00:20:08.009 kind of like... Right. It's sort of like the 00:20:08.009 --> 00:20:11.470 Coulant of Michel Bras, right? It's something 00:20:11.470 --> 00:20:13.829 that you see everywhere internationally now. 00:20:13.910 --> 00:20:15.990 It's like the most standard dessert in any sort 00:20:15.990 --> 00:20:18.089 of like bistro and, you know, it's packaged and 00:20:18.089 --> 00:20:20.890 frozen. In supermarkets. In airplanes, you get 00:20:20.890 --> 00:20:23.650 like a microwave Coulant, you know? Yeah, supermarkets, 00:20:23.730 --> 00:20:25.930 you know, you can just buy it. Like I've had 00:20:25.930 --> 00:20:29.170 Coulants in like little dive bars in Neukölln, 00:20:29.170 --> 00:20:32.009 right? Like it's fucking everywhere. And like, 00:20:32.009 --> 00:20:34.990 what did they do? Like spherification. Maybe 00:20:34.990 --> 00:20:37.470 they didn't invent it as a technique itself because 00:20:37.470 --> 00:20:41.730 it was part of the food industry, but as an application 00:20:41.730 --> 00:20:45.289 in a restaurant. Correct. I think that has the 00:20:45.289 --> 00:20:47.990 same merit. Taking something that was there all 00:20:47.990 --> 00:20:50.690 the time, like the whipping cream bottle, and 00:20:50.690 --> 00:20:55.490 using it, doing something that now you see wherever, 00:20:55.789 --> 00:20:59.869 that is a technique that... I think after the 00:20:59.869 --> 00:21:03.170 phone, it was second, like on that level of creating 00:21:03.170 --> 00:21:05.410 something that people reproduce all over the 00:21:05.410 --> 00:21:07.750 world. Absolutely. Absolutely. Like now that 00:21:07.750 --> 00:21:10.769 we're talking about it, what always fascinated 00:21:10.769 --> 00:21:13.309 me about El Buoy, because we can talk about all 00:21:13.309 --> 00:21:14.789 these aspects and they're all really cool and 00:21:14.789 --> 00:21:17.130 they're all really fascinating, but really one 00:21:17.130 --> 00:21:19.009 of the coolest things behind it is the mindset. 00:21:19.210 --> 00:21:21.750 Like if you listen to like Ferran talk or Albert, 00:21:21.930 --> 00:21:23.890 right? And they're talking about how they're 00:21:23.890 --> 00:21:26.009 conceptualizing stuff. And he's sort of like, 00:21:26.109 --> 00:21:27.869 yeah, and like the texture and this and that 00:21:27.869 --> 00:21:30.180 and blah, because. Ferdinand is a very good cook, 00:21:30.259 --> 00:21:32.119 you know, and they cooked traditional food for 00:21:32.119 --> 00:21:34.880 a really, really long time. And a lot of their 00:21:34.880 --> 00:21:38.359 food is based in tradition. And, you know, when 00:21:38.359 --> 00:21:40.500 you understand Spanish food as what it really 00:21:40.500 --> 00:21:43.059 is, you can see a lot of Spanish elements in, 00:21:43.160 --> 00:21:46.599 you know, even things that are not specifically 00:21:46.599 --> 00:21:49.440 Spanish with jamón ibérico and garlic and this 00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:51.579 and that and almonds and whatever, you know, 00:21:51.579 --> 00:21:54.380 the oiliness of things, you know, the like the 00:21:54.380 --> 00:22:00.259 drinks with the slick of oil. his mental approach 00:22:00.259 --> 00:22:04.759 to searching for a new texture changing the temperature 00:22:04.759 --> 00:22:08.539 of something how that like impacts you it's it's 00:22:08.539 --> 00:22:11.119 super free i mean the guy is a genius you there's 00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:13.160 no arguing about it he's a fucking genius you 00:22:13.160 --> 00:22:15.559 can like what he does or you can hate it you 00:22:15.559 --> 00:22:18.279 can say this not doesn't interest me at all that's 00:22:18.279 --> 00:22:20.119 fine like that's totally fair you don't have 00:22:20.119 --> 00:22:23.880 to like it he is a genius so like you just reminded 00:22:23.880 --> 00:22:27.440 me of the first book i had from piranha i downloaded 00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:32.900 it And it was like, I think the first, you know, 00:22:32.920 --> 00:22:39.259 the old ones that were black with some white 00:22:39.259 --> 00:22:42.440 lines, like a blackboard with some chalk drawings 00:22:42.440 --> 00:22:44.559 or something like this. And it was the first 00:22:44.559 --> 00:22:49.140 album that was 94 to 98. And this was around 00:22:49.140 --> 00:22:54.579 2003, 2004 when I got that. So you would buy 00:22:54.579 --> 00:22:56.539 the book and it would come with a CD and the 00:22:56.539 --> 00:22:58.900 CD would have... all the recipes, and that's 00:22:58.900 --> 00:23:02.059 what I downloaded, the CD, and I could have access 00:23:02.059 --> 00:23:05.420 to that. I remember you had to burn the CD to 00:23:05.420 --> 00:23:07.700 use it. You couldn't use it just like that because 00:23:07.700 --> 00:23:10.660 it was kind of like a software that ran on CD 00:23:10.660 --> 00:23:13.119 or something like that. There was a whole section 00:23:13.119 --> 00:23:16.940 of what they called beers. So they would do like 00:23:16.940 --> 00:23:19.720 a drink and a foam to have the effect that you 00:23:19.720 --> 00:23:21.380 have when you drink a beer, that you feel the 00:23:21.380 --> 00:23:24.099 foam, and then you have the... And they would 00:23:24.099 --> 00:23:26.480 play around with this complete, like, you know, 00:23:26.500 --> 00:23:30.740 it could be like a sweet pea beer with whatever, 00:23:31.079 --> 00:23:33.599 a prawn foam or stuff like that, like completely 00:23:33.599 --> 00:23:36.640 mixed up, like sweet and savory, hot and cold. 00:23:36.720 --> 00:23:39.200 And, you know, like this experience of, you know, 00:23:39.240 --> 00:23:42.599 putting a drink as a course, it's actually something 00:23:42.599 --> 00:23:45.680 very simple technically, but creatively it's 00:23:45.680 --> 00:23:47.599 something no one had ever done before. And I 00:23:47.599 --> 00:23:50.319 think that's also like a core idea in the mindset, 00:23:50.480 --> 00:23:55.140 like this motto they had. creativity is not copying, 00:23:55.359 --> 00:23:58.339 which is not a phrase from Ferran Adria, but 00:23:58.339 --> 00:24:00.880 it's a phrase he, it's almost his nowadays because 00:24:00.880 --> 00:24:04.119 he made it like this big thing about what creativity 00:24:04.119 --> 00:24:08.000 is. And it's, for me, it's an approach of creativity. 00:24:08.240 --> 00:24:10.900 It's not like an axiom, like it should be that. 00:24:11.099 --> 00:24:13.500 But yeah, it's a search that is very present 00:24:13.500 --> 00:24:17.400 and all of the things they did in that period. 00:24:18.279 --> 00:24:21.119 Crazy that, this is the curse also, right? Because 00:24:21.119 --> 00:24:24.299 El Puy, like I, I've never been to eat. It closed 00:24:24.299 --> 00:24:26.119 before I even started cooking, which is very 00:24:26.119 --> 00:24:33.180 sad. But like, I'm a big fan of their work. I 00:24:33.180 --> 00:24:36.059 really am. What I'm not a fan of is the wave 00:24:36.059 --> 00:24:38.359 of molecular restaurants that it launched, you 00:24:38.359 --> 00:24:40.819 know, that were sort of like copy pasting the 00:24:40.819 --> 00:24:43.460 techniques in the dishes, selling the sensation 00:24:43.460 --> 00:24:48.859 and the wow effect over what you were actually 00:24:48.859 --> 00:24:52.250 consuming. i we've talked about this so many 00:24:52.250 --> 00:24:56.569 times that it's you buy the spectacle not the 00:24:56.569 --> 00:24:59.990 substance and i fucking hate that and with el 00:24:59.990 --> 00:25:02.650 bui i do believe even though i will never find 00:25:02.650 --> 00:25:05.789 out i'll never be able to find out that there 00:25:05.789 --> 00:25:07.869 was spectacle but there was also substance behind 00:25:07.869 --> 00:25:10.589 it because this was such a such a novelty and 00:25:10.589 --> 00:25:12.390 it's what a lot of people talked about it was 00:25:12.390 --> 00:25:15.269 a cheap like gateway for people to be sort of 00:25:15.269 --> 00:25:18.779 like let me copy that And people will be sort 00:25:18.779 --> 00:25:21.539 of like, oh, wow. And maybe it'll overshadow 00:25:21.539 --> 00:25:24.460 the mediocrity of my actual work. There's a lot 00:25:24.460 --> 00:25:27.759 of that, like a lot of modern chefs that just 00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:30.339 take, you know, like this kind of box and they 00:25:30.339 --> 00:25:32.799 reproduce that in the restaurants. And they think 00:25:32.799 --> 00:25:35.380 that's something, you know, and I think that. 00:25:36.490 --> 00:25:39.029 people can smell that you know like if there 00:25:39.029 --> 00:25:41.450 is not authenticity that's something you say 00:25:41.450 --> 00:25:44.430 that you say that i mean there's gagan in in 00:25:44.430 --> 00:25:46.869 thailand you know this is like a mega celebrated 00:25:46.869 --> 00:25:49.250 restaurant and if you look at a lot of the dishes 00:25:49.250 --> 00:25:52.509 it's basically albui dishes but the flavors are 00:25:52.509 --> 00:25:56.779 changed for indian flavors And there's a lot 00:25:56.779 --> 00:26:00.400 of controversy about it because if like 70 % 00:26:00.400 --> 00:26:02.819 of the menu is albouy dishes just with the changed 00:26:02.819 --> 00:26:04.339 ingredients and you're sort of like, well, how 00:26:04.339 --> 00:26:06.680 authentic is it? Yeah, sure, you can make me 00:26:06.680 --> 00:26:08.660 a yogurt sphere with this and that and blah, 00:26:08.839 --> 00:26:11.480 and maybe it will be tasty, but it's kind of 00:26:11.480 --> 00:26:15.700 like, well, you know, creating is not copying, 00:26:15.819 --> 00:26:19.500 you know? Yeah, like I said, like I wouldn't 00:26:19.500 --> 00:26:23.180 say that's a rule that you should never break. 00:26:23.960 --> 00:26:26.460 But it's for sure an interesting approach. You 00:26:26.460 --> 00:26:29.619 said El Bulli closed before you even started 00:26:29.619 --> 00:26:31.700 recording. I think El Bulli closed when we were 00:26:31.700 --> 00:26:33.920 working together at Margol. Do you remember this 00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:37.519 picture? So is it the last? Yes, I can see it. 00:26:37.539 --> 00:26:42.920 By the way. So this is the last waltz of El Bulli, 00:26:43.019 --> 00:26:46.299 which was the closing event. And I think they 00:26:46.299 --> 00:26:50.599 really wanted to showcase how many chefs they're 00:26:50.599 --> 00:26:52.759 influenced. And this is just insane. By the way, 00:26:52.779 --> 00:26:55.319 this is... Xavier Sagristat, the guy that invented 00:26:55.319 --> 00:26:58.660 the foam tortilla. But we have here José Andrés, 00:26:58.859 --> 00:27:02.900 Joan Roca, Antonia Duris, Albert Adrià, René 00:27:02.900 --> 00:27:07.380 Redzepi, Graham Ackerts, Massimo Bottura, Albert 00:27:07.380 --> 00:27:12.420 Raurig, who is the guy from Disfrutar, you know, 00:27:12.539 --> 00:27:20.259 Oriol Mateu, and the other guy. It's just crazy, 00:27:20.400 --> 00:27:24.490 you know, like how... Well, this is a little 00:27:24.490 --> 00:27:28.390 bit the who's who. Maybe not today. Today's gastronomy, 00:27:28.470 --> 00:27:32.069 for sure, 10 days ago, this was the who's who 00:27:32.069 --> 00:27:35.170 in the world panorama. Yeah, absolutely. And 00:27:35.170 --> 00:27:38.549 there are a lot. How pissed would you be if you 00:27:38.549 --> 00:27:41.430 were in that picture and you were the guy behind 00:27:41.430 --> 00:27:45.710 the dog statue that you can't see? How fucking 00:27:45.710 --> 00:27:48.269 pissed off would you be? And we're like counting 00:27:48.269 --> 00:27:50.849 off people. We're sort of like, José Andrés. 00:27:52.490 --> 00:27:55.549 And the guy behind the dog statue that nobody 00:27:55.549 --> 00:27:58.710 will ever remember. And I mean, who would you 00:27:58.710 --> 00:28:04.109 say are the ones holding the torch of this, you 00:28:04.109 --> 00:28:06.630 know, the legacy of El Puyi today? Because, I 00:28:06.630 --> 00:28:08.490 mean, many of these guys, you could say that. 00:28:08.650 --> 00:28:11.250 I mean, I think any answer would be right if 00:28:11.250 --> 00:28:13.890 you choose any. Like, you know, it could be Oriol, 00:28:13.930 --> 00:28:16.880 it could be Albert, it could be René. or Andoni 00:28:16.880 --> 00:28:18.720 or John Roca or Jose Andres, you know, like, 00:28:18.740 --> 00:28:21.420 or even Massimo Bottura. Yeah, I mean, for me, 00:28:21.440 --> 00:28:24.700 obviously, Andoni and, like, the guys from Disfrutar, 00:28:24.759 --> 00:28:27.960 like, put aside because they are quintessentially 00:28:27.960 --> 00:28:32.720 El Bui for me. They are El Bui. You know, Andoni, 00:28:32.720 --> 00:28:34.980 he was there for some time, but, like, those 00:28:34.980 --> 00:28:36.799 guys, they were there beginning to end. They 00:28:36.799 --> 00:28:39.640 live and breathe El Bui. Same as Albert, you 00:28:39.640 --> 00:28:41.000 know? I don't remember the name of the other 00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:43.980 guy. But they say the other guy, that's the most 00:28:43.980 --> 00:28:49.140 bully. I have to check it now. He was the most 00:28:49.140 --> 00:28:52.319 bully of them all. Because he started in El Bulli 00:28:52.319 --> 00:28:57.420 when he was 17 years old. And he cooked there 00:28:57.420 --> 00:29:02.000 for 15 years only. And he became head chef very 00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:06.789 young. Killing machine, that's what I know from 00:29:06.789 --> 00:29:09.170 what I've heard. Yeah, probably. I mean, you 00:29:09.170 --> 00:29:11.430 can say Grant Ackert's very close to it, you 00:29:11.430 --> 00:29:14.910 know, with his own style. Andoni, obviously, 00:29:15.089 --> 00:29:17.430 you know, then ventured into very different things, 00:29:17.450 --> 00:29:20.369 but very close. And I mean, I think Rene also, 00:29:20.569 --> 00:29:22.130 you know, I mean, especially in the beginning, 00:29:22.230 --> 00:29:24.170 like the style was different, but the setup of 00:29:24.170 --> 00:29:26.210 the kitchen, like the whole thing was so close. 00:29:26.569 --> 00:29:30.079 It's very interesting how similar. el bouy and 00:29:30.079 --> 00:29:32.900 noma are in the effect that they've had not in 00:29:32.900 --> 00:29:34.859 the end like what you actually get on the plate 00:29:34.859 --> 00:29:37.940 but in the background things but also like i 00:29:37.940 --> 00:29:39.740 could say the same thing about noma that i said 00:29:39.740 --> 00:29:43.420 about el bouy i love the positive effects that 00:29:43.420 --> 00:29:46.700 noma has had on the culinary world internationally 00:29:46.700 --> 00:29:49.900 from high -end restaurants to low -end restaurants 00:29:49.900 --> 00:29:53.779 i really i love it Yet there is such a huge wave 00:29:53.779 --> 00:29:56.579 of copycat restaurants that make a cheap imitation 00:29:56.579 --> 00:30:00.559 that try to create a similar vibe. And they hide 00:30:00.559 --> 00:30:02.460 behind sort of like, oh, this is fermented, blah, 00:30:02.559 --> 00:30:04.240 blah, blah. And you eat it and you're like, ugh, 00:30:04.400 --> 00:30:08.339 right? One last thing I wanted to ask you. Like 00:30:08.339 --> 00:30:13.460 you said, we should organize a potluck food trip 00:30:13.460 --> 00:30:19.089 to Enigma. Why Enigma? What is it that makes 00:30:19.089 --> 00:30:22.049 you so fascinated about this restaurant? Anybody 00:30:22.049 --> 00:30:25.349 that knows me knows that I like a very different 00:30:25.349 --> 00:30:27.609 style of cooking than, you know, what they did 00:30:27.609 --> 00:30:29.250 at El Bui. That's kind of like what I'm into. 00:30:29.670 --> 00:30:32.809 But as I mentioned before, I'm a very big fan 00:30:32.809 --> 00:30:36.269 of El Bui, what it was. I think Enigma is run 00:30:36.269 --> 00:30:39.430 by Albert, right? I think. Albert Adria? Yeah, 00:30:39.650 --> 00:30:44.210 yeah, of course. It's Albert Adria. Today, 2025. 00:30:45.589 --> 00:30:47.869 Enigma is Alberto Adria. He used to have El Barri 00:30:47.869 --> 00:30:52.529 restaurant group, which for me, personally, tickets 00:30:52.529 --> 00:30:54.670 was part of El Barri. El Barri was the restaurant 00:30:54.670 --> 00:30:56.390 group. There were like six or seven restaurants. 00:30:56.609 --> 00:30:59.210 For me, it was the most exciting restaurant group 00:30:59.210 --> 00:31:02.250 there ever was. So there was tickets, Enigma, 00:31:02.509 --> 00:31:07.369 also like a Mexican one, like a cocktail place, 00:31:07.650 --> 00:31:11.869 like a vermouth place. And with COVID, everything 00:31:11.869 --> 00:31:15.960 closed. They kept only Enigma. So today that's 00:31:15.960 --> 00:31:19.420 what Albert D 'Aria is. Yeah. Well, I think Enigma 00:31:19.420 --> 00:31:22.700 is the closest thing, probably, I'm assuming, 00:31:22.720 --> 00:31:25.440 that you can get to experience what El Bulli 00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:28.119 was in a completely new form, obviously in a 00:31:28.119 --> 00:31:30.960 new shape. But I think it's the closest that 00:31:30.960 --> 00:31:33.000 you can get. And honestly, even though I'm not 00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:34.940 into that style of food that much, like I'm not 00:31:34.940 --> 00:31:37.000 into the whole sort of like alchemist kind of 00:31:37.000 --> 00:31:40.220 thing, but the stuff that I've seen at Enigma, 00:31:40.339 --> 00:31:43.519 it looks super interesting. Yeah, I would love 00:31:43.519 --> 00:31:45.200 to go. We have to go. next year