You're listening to Heritage Radio Network. Hi,
everyone. Welcome to Potluck Food Talks. My name
is MC Foie Gras. We're recording live from Managua,
and I'm here with my man, Lil Daikon, the wasabi
wabi -sabi of the radishy lyrics. How are you
doing? Goddamn, that was really good. I love
that. By the way, Michelin, just last week, quietly
started to back off with their Clovers and their
Green Stars. Suddenly, they're not in their webpages
anymore. But there is also not an announcement
about it. It's just a trend change. Greenwashing
is not the trend anymore. Bombing Gaza is the
trend now, so let's go there. I don't know. Yeah,
and it's like, I think that the way that they're
removing it is so on par with how they were kind
of like doing it. This is the thing with Michelin,
right? I want to make a statement, right? I have
very mixed feelings about Michelin. Do you have
a Michelin puppet right next to you? I light
a little bit of incense in the morning before
it. I have a little altar and I sit in front
of it and I stare at it. I whip myself. Please.
That's actually a nice analogy. Okay, so I want
to share with you a little bit my feelings about
Michelin. They're very personal to me, right?
So Michelin, on one hand, I disagree with almost
everything that they do at the moment. They don't
have a certain direction anymore. They hand out
stars left and right, and they take them away
left and right. And you don't really know why.
There's no real reason for it. You know, they
hand out a star, they take it away the next year.
And people are sort of like, like people that
go to the restaurant, they're sort of like, the
food, if anything, if it's not gotten better,
which we think it has, it stayed the same. So
why are you taking the star away? It's a sort
of sensationalism. It's very cheap. Like with
this whole green star thing, it's so sporadic.
It's like, hey, we make it a big deal. Here's
your green star. Amazing, right? It fits into
our narrative at the moment. People like green
stuff, right? Yeah, nice. Like McDonald's with
the green fucking M. Basically the same thing.
Pathetic, right? And then the sort of like trend
dies down and they're like, whoop, now you lost
it. Sorry. Oh, you're doing everything the same
that you did before? Maybe even better? Doesn't
matter. We take it away from you. And it's like,
no. But what I, you know, Michelin. There is
an idea behind it of what it maybe used to be.
Maybe not. Maybe it's just my own romantic perception.
But of real intention in the pursuit of excellence.
And that is why when I think of Michelin, I still
have a sort of nostalgic feeling to it. Because
Michelin for me, as I perceived it also as a
young cook. was sort of like doesn't matter if
you do little gel cubes doesn't matter if you
do little agar dots somewhere you know or whether
you're just cooking really like rustic but like
elevated elegant food it's if you're pursuing
excellence you know that is what they're all
about the thing that's that is why i still have
that's why i like looking at this little michelin
man because that's what i think of when i look
at it i'm like you know the the pursuit of excellence
At the same time, I completely disagree with
this compendium of, you know, mostly old white
men in France and the UK who just are on a power
trip and just like, you get a star and you get
a star and you didn't come to my fucking supper
club last weekend, so I'll take a star away from
you. Like, it's bullshit. It's a big circle jerk.
It's a big fucking, you know, boys club circle
jerk. Where should I start? You know, like, what
did you say? To me, it proves one thing that,
you know, like I once, when I studied design,
they explained us that the greatest brand ever
built was Christianism. And they actually set
the foundations of what later brands would become.
Also because they, you know, they created a logo,
which is just like a symbol of just two lines,
which is a cross. And it's something that represents
an idea larger than just like a little sign.
It's something, it's an idea people embrace and
there is a lot behind it, right? Like I think
Michelin. achieved exactly the same because like
many careers and I think both of ours included
like when we began at least our ambitions was
to to know this start chefs going there and this
is a one star a two star a three star and knowing
the differences and knowing and also dreaming
about getting stars ourselves and understanding
what are the steps to get there and this is the
whole idea of Michelin which ironically It's
a tire company, and ironically, that puppet you
have there is a tire monster to sell tires. If
you go back, if you decode the marketing strategy,
which started 100 years ago, this was basically
a highway guide. To drive more so you can sell
more tires. That's the strategy, right? One second,
let me go to Instagram. I wanted to react to
that Puglisi reel. Then you call them up and
you say, oh, are you guys sustainable? Yeah,
we are. Oh, let me give you a clover. What the
fuck is that? Michelin Guide has spent the last,
what, six decades in pushing gastronomy towards
square. cutting things in a certain way. Now
it seems like it's punching out shit that makes
you go somewhere. The core of the way that the
Michelin guy wants people to cook is wasteful.
It's about being all perfect and nitty gritty
and putting stuff balancing another stuff that's
supposed to look pretty. Every type of leaf that
does not look like this or cut out every piece
of fish that is not perfectly square. When has
a fish ever been square? Fish is not supposed
to be square. Square doesn't swim. It pisses
me off. who has been defining astronomy for so
many decades, now wants to talk about sustainability,
but does not do it in a sensible way. Sustainability
is asking questions, asking critical questions,
and asking how can we do better? Because that's
what we try to do, and I know that a lot of our
colleagues are trying to do, but that's not what
the Michelin Guide is asking for. This is called
greenwashing. This is just putting something
on top that makes it look greener, and that's
not good enough. So I'm kind of pissed. I was
back home Monday, and TV was getting in contact
with me to talk about the Michelin Guide coming
out, because I was probably the only one left
in the city. And I was really surprised because
they started to talk about this clover. You're
going to get the clover. Are you excited about
getting the clover? What will it mean for you
if you get the clover? What the fuck is the clover?
So this is this new sustainable certification.
I look up on the homepage and I find Relay amongst
the clovers. And I was like, wow, okay. And there's
a little quote about farms for table and shit
like this. It's what we do. And yeah, okay, that's
good. I'm kind of happy about it. I tried to
get in touch with John Tam and ask him, what
did we do? Like fill out something I don't know
about or what happened? Oh, no, no, no. It was
just a phone call. What do you mean? It was just
a phone call. They called up the restaurant and
asked for John Tam, the head chef. John Tam picks
up the phone and they say, so you guys are sustainable?
Yeah, kind of. We do our best. We do this and
this. Oh yeah, good, cool. Thank you very much.
That was it. This industry is difficult. I think
it's really difficult to get through all the
storytelling and all the bullshit that's going
on. I just know for a fact that the produce that
we put on the plate is the one major consideration
you need to have when you talk about sustainability.
I know about solar panels and all that, but that's
easy. The produce that you choose to put on the
plate is what makes the difference because you
need to make an effort to do that. You need to
choose something that probably costs you more,
and therefore you need to support some local
people doing some local good stuff. You need
to support people that want to make a change
and actually sacrifice to make a change. Organic
is the least you can do. Now, we have a few on
that list that is certified organic, but a lot
are not. And I think that that's fine. But then
what is it? Like, does this organic certification
even account for anything in this thing? Or does
it just not matter at all? A phone conversation.
And that is just bullshit. You call up a restaurant
and ask, what do they do? Because I guess based
on some quotes on their homepage or some shit
that you heard around town, and then you call
them up and you say, oh, you guys are standing
with, yeah, we are. Oh, here, let me give you
a clover. What the fuck is that? So that was
it. Yeah. I've seen that reel when it came out
originally. um which is quite a while ago it's
quite a few years ago yeah you already mentioned
it in the podcast like many episodes ago like
at least 100 episodes ago because it's it's so
on point honestly you know it is so spot on it's
the phoniness it's the fakeness it's the sensational
like chasing you know news but it's the lack
of substance i i've talked about that a lot You
know, this whole sort of like everything's on
the surface, but nothing actually supports it.
And it's exactly that. It's sort of like, oh,
yeah, I can model a whole restaurant so easily
after this idea, this trend, because we're talking
about a trend in a certain way, this greenwashing,
farm to table, blah, blah, blah. Absolutely.
No, like I would say the trend is greenwashing,
not sustainability. It's pretending to be sustainable.
That's the trend. Because that's way easier.
It's so easy, right? So you make it a little
bit this and that and blah. You go a little bit
noma. You make a little bit of wood, a little
bit of plants. You post on Instagram pictures
of farmers, whatever. You get some land somewhere
outside. You start growing vegetables. You get
a little piece of land or you get some fucking
buckets. You make a rooftop garden. Good. Great
on you. That's great, honestly. It by no means
makes you sustainable. Not even a little bit.
This is the thing that also pisses me off as
somebody who has been very passionate about sustainable
cooking and plant -orientated cooking. I mean,
as you know, I used to run this entire fucking
pop -up around that idea. And I actually did
a horticulture certification at one point because
I was so intrigued by the connection of growing
produce and... The quality that then reflects
in the restaurant. There's so much that goes
into it. And this half -heartedness of sort of
like, oh yeah, our menu is 80 % vegetable focused.
Does that make you sustainable? Not at all. Not
even a fucking little bit. Sustainability is
so much. And the fact that a big entity like
Michelin, who's one of the most powerful entities
in the culinary world. is actively engaging in
this greenwashing is really damaging for people
who are trying to make an actual difference.
Just to also add to that idea, what does a tire
company talk about promoting sustainability?
You know, like, you basically work on cars. You
know? Also, like, I was... You know, like I once
did a research on calculating CO2 emissions in
a restaurant. And that like the operation of
doing that mathematically is astronomical of
calculating how much emissions. Imagine every
supplier on the chain from the producer to the
salad where you have like 12 different ingredients
that come from. 12 different locations and they
were transported in 12 different ways. So imagine
if you put all that together plus workers and
even clients and that whole ecosystem of activity,
if you calculate that. As you say, there's no
sustainability at all. I've heard even of restaurants
that are very on top of sustainability that do
things like they will grind bottles to do plates
with that. I think Silo does that. As far as
I understand, that's also not necessarily sustainable.
By fortune or disgrace, there is something that
is inherently attached to the gastronomical experience,
which is storytelling. And any good restaurateur
knows this. And for that reason, you will see
places like, I don't know, like Azurmendi, where
you walk in and they will tell you, oh, this
is our garden. And here are our tomatoes, but
they're not ready because they're not in season
right now. And you sit down, first course, tomatoes.
And it's like, but you just told me there were
no tomatoes, you know, and now you're giving
them to me. You see? I think that the main thing
here is generating a narrative that attracts
an audience. And that's the whole thing. That's
what's going on here, not something else. They
don't give a shit about saving the planet. Absolutely.
And I think the storytelling point that you just
mentioned is a really, really good aspect to
look at it. Because there's two ways that you
can go about it. There are a lot of things that
are happening behind the scenes. If you come
to a restaurant, you have a very narrow window
that you see. Nowadays, we have social. media
and that's a huge added sort of image that you
perceive but normally you walk into a restaurant
and you have the dining room you have the service
and then you have the food that comes out and
that is the image that you experience nowadays
social media is a big big part of it one of the
biggest parts of it no because you like look
at the image of the restaurant before and you
get a certain idea you get a certain feeling
and then you go there with a certain already
like idea in mind if you think about it you go
to a restaurant And the storytelling thing is,
you know, somebody is like, they have a farm,
they do this, they do that. The storytelling
comes in as they like, they tell you and it enriches
your experience. It is a way to like communicate
all the effort that is put in behind the scenes.
That can be good. That can be a little bit tedious.
It depends how it's done, but it can be very
good. The other aspect which is happening a lot
more these days, I think, is the bullshit storytelling.
Let me tell you. blah blah blah blah blah blah
blah and the storytelling is like its own thing
it's not actually like hey let me communicate
to you the things that we don't see it's like
hey let me paint a picture in your mind whether
that picture is actually happening Doesn't matter.
Let me conjure up images of radishes being pulled
from the ground by our head chef in the morning.
Let me paint you a picture of how our stagiaires
happily walk into the morning mist to pull a
pumpkin from the field, you know. And you're
like, oh, wow. Yeah, nice. Very romantic. But
it's like, unfortunately, more times than not
these days, it's all bullshit. It's all bullshit.
And that's like that. That is the thing that
a lot of these like very high end. I would almost
say almost all of them, they live off that. It's
an important part. That's why I say, and every
restaurateur knows this, starting on a specific
level, you can't put a dish and just say, just
explain the technicalities. Well, you could,
but you have to do at least that, at least explaining
some technicalities like, well, the beetroots
were juiced and then mixed with butter and blah,
blah, blah, at least. At least that, or you can
use it, for example, like when we were in Noma,
they told us they wouldn't go into the technicalities
because they would just say like... fermented
whey condiment. That's it. There was probably
a lot behind that that was just too complex to
explain. But that works. You need at least that.
And if you know how to play with that, there's
people that build these fictions around food
just to enhance the experience. And it does because
people believe it. Even if it's a lie, it doesn't
matter. You know, you were mind blown by this
story someone told you. You know, and that's
the way it works, unfortunately. I mean, that
is what Mugares lives off and has always lived
off. You know, I mean, for over a decade at least.
You know, I mean, when I came to Mugares, you
know, you were amazed by... these images of people
in the garden like harvesting flowers with a
tweezer and a little scissor and blah you know
and you have all these like i mean they're very
very good at image building and at storytelling
very good if you cut all the bullshit at the
end of the day and you ignore all of that the
location the story behind it etc and you just
have the plate of food what is that to say you
know i think well but but like i said at the
end of the day a gastronomic experience there
are many forces in play and the location is one
of them the stories is one of them actually their
last book or one of their books is the flavor
of stories you know the things are not they're
actually not bullshit you know like a story can
change the flavor you experience of a dish like
your brain Process it differently once you have
a story or an environment or a setting or a dishware
or whatever. All these things enhance the experience.
And like I said, any people in the industry,
any proper professional knows this very well
and knows how to master this and setting the
right setting to do it. I really like what Christian
Puglisi said on that video we just watched, where
he said that Michelin cut things square and that
they wanted to fit just in a certain way. Because
really, if you think about the expectations,
the point where they're aligned, not only...
for the guests, but also for the workers. They're
online on a place that for me, it's toxic. And
that's where chefs go crazy, where they burn
out, where they humiliate their workers and suppliers
in order to get the right. to place a logo at
the entrance of the restaurant, which is, for
me, crazy. Like, you do all this crazy thing.
I was thinking about this. It's so tasteless
to put the logo of Atari Company in the front
of your restaurant, but at the same time, it's
perceived as classy and luxurious. And for me,
like, we've been brainwashed into this marketing
strategy so successfully that that's the point
where we are right now. And I think it's crazy.
Absolutely. I was thinking about, like, there
was no logo of Michelin and Noma. You usually
see it when you walk in. They don't have it.
And I know they're very jealous on their branding
and collaborations. You know, like I know whenever
they wanted to collaborate with a brand, even
the greatest brands you can imagine, they were
like, we can only use the Noma logo. There won't
be any other logo. And I think... Well, at the
same time, they don't have to show off anything.
I mean, but they've also, like, had a very long,
like, trajectory, you know? I think I remember,
like, an interview with Rene Rezepi. many many
years ago in the original norma space where it
was like this whole thing about them not getting
a third star when they were like the best restaurant
in the world for like a really long time right
and he was like would i like to get a third star
yeah absolutely you know i think i remember way
they're way past that right yeah like they're
what what was the name of the documentary chef
and their stars a german documentary is where
he said that yeah yeah maybe yeah you just said
something that like like reminded me of a point
that always comes up for me when people talk
about sustainability in a restaurant you know
i feel like i'm with this like trying to fit
into a square mold it's it's very very fitting
to michelin they can't really do that now anymore
because like too many people have broken out
of this mold like el bui broke out of it and
you know noma broke out of it and many many other
places that followed right because it used to
be like you have to be like this for us to give
you our award right They say, like, it's just
about the food and they embrace creativity and
this or that. But just recently I heard a story,
like, from a very reliable source. There's this
city where there's this two -star restaurant
and they had a brother restaurant that wanted
to game, like, also their star. Also, you know
when the inspectors are undercover? But there
are some hints that, you know, like they're usually
on their own. Not always, but they're usually
on their own. They always will have like the
whole menu and coffee afterwards. And then after
two or three inspectors visited you, usually
there's a booking from a visible face of the
guide. whatever, the director of Spain or of
New York or Mexico or whatever, and you know
the name, and so you see the booking and you
know this person is coming, so you're warned
that they're coming. And this gives you the opportunity
to do whatever you want. So I heard a story of
someone who, you know, canceled all the reservations
and invited all the suppliers. So he made like
a fake setting of super happy people going crazy
all over the dishes and everything, and nobody
complaining and everything, and nobody giving
a problem or anything, and be like, oh, wow,
this place is amazing, going to the guy and saying
like that. Again, you know, like the whole setting
and environment and storytelling around a thing.
is what makes something magical, right? And the
other one that I heard, they wanted to fit into
this mold where, I think it's the one you were
suggesting, where you need to have amish bush,
and you need to have petit fous, and you need
to have like a specific, and if you don't have
a bread basket, bread should have an important
place in the menu, at least if you're doing a
Western proposal, right? Like a Western, classic
academically kind of cooking. So what they did
is basically they did all the prep in the two
-star restaurant, like the Petit Four's and the
Amish Bush and all those things. And with an
infrastructure of 40 chefs, they sent all the
prep to the little restaurant and they got a
first star right away. And that's how they did
it. There's also that, you know? And that's so
ridiculous, you know? And that brings me back
to the point that I wanted to make with the whole
sustainability attached to Michelin. It's so
extremely unsustainable and not just in a way
of like the food. The people. Yeah. When I was
studying horticulture, I was reading a lot about
permaculture. One of the biggest concepts of
permaculture that stayed with me, because I was,
this is about like landscaping and stuff like
that, you know, agriculture. But I, for me, I
really made a connection with kitchens and workplace
also is the, the human. interference needed so
there was like there's this big bible sort of
like the earth care manual i think it's called
and it was showing you like this little diagram
of like what a permacultural and sustainable
plot of land could look like and it was talking
about the least human interference that you need
is the best Because that is the most sustainable.
And what we're doing, I mean, what the trend
was in Michelin star kitchens is the complete
opposite. More and more and more and more and
more people and more hours and more this and
more that. And it's like, man, it's like trying
to solve a situation by getting angrier and angrier
and angrier and angrier and angrier. That's exactly
what was happening in kitchens also, right? And
like, so these days also when I hear people kind
of talking about sort of like, oh yeah, we have
so and so many chefs, like we work so and so
many hours. I mean, how many fucking times have
we had conversations like that with people from
the industry? And I'm kind of like, you cannot
talk about being sustainable in any fucking way.
I don't give a shit. Like, you know, like how
many farmers you have and like how much land
you have and this and that and blah. If you have
this and this many chefs and all of these chefs
that work, I mean, come on. Over what, like 10
hours? 10 hours for normal people is still a
lot. That's more than a workday, right? For me,
that's a half day. One thing is if you do 10
hours and you achieved many things. The other
thing is if you work 10 hours and you were trimming
leaves to make them square. Yeah. And cutting
them in a cookie mold. round herbs and throwing
the frames away. There's also this concept of
the curse of the Michelin. Very early, Alain
Saint -Denis, I think he was one of the very
first ones to give up his star and saying, I
don't want this shit. I don't want this curse.
It's like a gift, a poison gift. Also, Marco
Pierre White, he also gave away his stars. Well,
there is a saying that, theoretically, if you
have one star, you will sell 30 % more. Two stars,
60, and three stars, 100 % more sales, which
I think it's believable. I think that's the whole
thing around this because there is an intermediary
needed between the consumer and the supplier,
in this case, the restaurant and the producer,
right? Like restaurants produce gastronomic experiences.
But I don't think it's true anymore, though.
No, no, no. I think this will be true always.
And also in any industry. You know, like in order
for a dentist to get clients, he needs to be
on the internet, for example. He needs a website.
But that Michelin is directly connected to that.
I don't think that... No, no, no. I think...
I lost my point, sorry. What I wanted to say,
I think Michelin is directly connected to bad
environments and kitchens. Interesting, yeah.
You won't see people going overly crazy if they're
not ambitioning for a start or trying to preserve
a start. you know, or making extra hours. It's
like we're doing this for this. Like the ambition
is not let's make this and this profits at the
end of the year. Or let's everybody become rich.
Or let's everybody change history by creating
this new technique no one has ever done before,
which is something I would say El Bulli had that
ambition, for example, and other restaurants
as well, of course. But you could then El Bulli
clearly see an ambition that they wanted to explore
unexplored ground. in the culinary world, and
that was their thing. But in many, many, many
cases, and the restaurants we're talking about
here are the restaurants that said, no, we're
not doing this because we have a star and we
want a second, and we have a second and we want
a third, or we don't have a star but we want
a star. For that reason, we're going to change
the menu and do this and become better. I don't
know. I think there is a correlation, and also
not necessarily more sales because there's also
a specific market for that, and this doesn't
work. in every city or every client group, okay?
I totally get your point. The other point I was
saying is that Michelin and any guide responds
to a need, and that's a need in the market. Like
people need, you know, like you know about restaurants
and I know about restaurants, but Mr. Smith.
who doesn't have an idea and he goes to a specific
city, he will go to Michelin or TripAdvisor or
Google Business or the list of some influencer
or some book or he will ask friends or he would
go into whatever. But there is a need to build
that bridge. And what Michelin has done is that
the European standard, because that's also another
thing, it's a Eurocentric. that whatever you
see outside, it's still Eurocentric. It's, ah,
let's give this Michelin star to this exotic
taco place because it's ethnic, or to this hawker
place in Singapore because it's so, wow, it's
so exotic that we can have an experience here.
And I'm like... You know, that's not a star standard.
You know, like once you're in the business and
you know these things, you know what's a star
and a two star and a three star and you can tell.
It's phony. Yeah, it's like, oh, look at us,
you know. We're so inclusive. We're so sustainable.
Yeah, I definitely see your point. I think what
you're saying is like I would agree with it for
like a big percentage of things. I think it's
definitely possible to have a Michelin star restaurant
and not be toxic. And I also I know of restaurants
that don't care and don't like especially like
here in Dubai, for example, you know, like Michelin
is very new here. And before that, there were
a lot of restaurants that were pushing a lot.
Also, like in not the most healthy way without
ever getting like a star, you know. I agree.
I agree. I don't say it's all the cases, but
I say there is a visible pattern of that. Yeah,
absolutely. I think the thing is also with giving
the stars away, and I think the important part
is how free you are as a creative, as somebody
who makes something, right? Are you going to
enslave yourself to the idea of getting a star
and being dependent on somebody giving you this
out of the grace of their, you know, whatever?
Is that going to change what you do? It's also
the curse of social media, right? It's like,
well, on one side, I get all this information
and it's great. I get a lot of inspiration. But
at the same time, how much of like authentic,
unauthentic me am I bringing into the things
that I'm creating and developing? So if I'm chasing
a Michelin star, If I didn't have that, if I
didn't have the social media, if I didn't have
the trends that I'm getting fed, if I didn't
have a tire company telling me, hey, this is
cool right now, would I be doing the same thing
that I'm doing right now? Or would I be creating
something completely different out of my inner
world, like what I find exciting, without caring
about all of that shit? Would it be the same?
And I think that's the question that we need
to ask ourselves a lot. This guide started 100
years ago, and it was like a guide. Now it has
become this idea, and also it exists because
they invest resources into it. You have to pay
the inspectors. These are full -time jobs. You
have to do all the fact -checking and everything,
and that's an infrastructure. It's like a company.
The whole marketing strategy is like a whole
company, and that's the reason. No one has been
able to push it back, you know, because you have,
like I said, like 50 bests or 50 bests at the
end of the day is 50 restaurants in the whole
world or in the whole region, right? Like Michelin,
if they go to a country, they will measure the
whole country or the whole city, which also,
this is important to say that there are cities
that... For example, it was disclosed that Florida
tourism boards paid $3 million just to be reviewed.
It's not something that, oh, we discovered this
undiscovered food scene in Florida and we went
there to... No, no, no, that's not how it works.
This is not... It's not the film academy that
has a purpose of good cinema. At the end of the
day, here, this is a PR company for themselves.
Same as San Pellegrino. These are all PR companies.
This is something that really pisses me off when
I see these chefs that are... That they can't
even hide it, that they're genuinely motivated
by their egos, like a little children where you
say, here, you have a star. And they go to the
other children and say, look, I have a star.
And then another one comes in, I have two. And
that's the chef world that go around like that,
just showing off their little prizes that they
got. And I think this system should... turn obsolete
at some point i think you know like today there
are the tools when i was a kid Internet was not
what it is today. And you could imagine this
futuristic digital communities where things could
be built and societies could be changed. And
I think today there are all the resources to
create a new way of measuring restaurants in
transparent ways where you know what was being
pointed, who pointed it, when. People working
there being treated with dignity, like, just
dignity, you know? Like, also the thing, you
get a green star and then you're paying, like,
your dishwasher three hours an hour, you know?
Like, and you're not even in black, you know?
Like, you're not even paying, like, with proper
taxes. Those things are going on all over, you
know? Like, the whole time, man. Yeah. I think
those are my opinions about it. That's it for
this week's episode of Putt Lock Food Talks.
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