WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:07.320 You're listening to Heritage Radio Network. Hi, 00:00:07.320 --> 00:00:14.220 everyone. Welcome to Potluck Food Talks. My name 00:00:14.220 --> 00:00:18.780 is MC Foie Gras. We're recording live from Managua, 00:00:18.879 --> 00:00:23.339 and I'm here with my man, Lil Daikon, the wasabi 00:00:23.339 --> 00:00:26.859 wabi -sabi of the radishy lyrics. How are you 00:00:26.859 --> 00:00:29.859 doing? Goddamn, that was really good. I love 00:00:29.859 --> 00:00:36.460 that. By the way, Michelin, just last week, quietly 00:00:36.460 --> 00:00:40.079 started to back off with their Clovers and their 00:00:40.079 --> 00:00:44.560 Green Stars. Suddenly, they're not in their webpages 00:00:44.560 --> 00:00:46.640 anymore. But there is also not an announcement 00:00:46.640 --> 00:00:53.020 about it. It's just a trend change. Greenwashing 00:00:53.020 --> 00:00:55.920 is not the trend anymore. Bombing Gaza is the 00:00:55.920 --> 00:00:59.609 trend now, so let's go there. I don't know. Yeah, 00:00:59.649 --> 00:01:01.490 and it's like, I think that the way that they're 00:01:01.490 --> 00:01:05.709 removing it is so on par with how they were kind 00:01:05.709 --> 00:01:07.769 of like doing it. This is the thing with Michelin, 00:01:07.769 --> 00:01:11.150 right? I want to make a statement, right? I have 00:01:11.150 --> 00:01:13.569 very mixed feelings about Michelin. Do you have 00:01:13.569 --> 00:01:21.530 a Michelin puppet right next to you? I light 00:01:21.530 --> 00:01:23.530 a little bit of incense in the morning before 00:01:23.530 --> 00:01:26.250 it. I have a little altar and I sit in front 00:01:26.250 --> 00:01:31.800 of it and I stare at it. I whip myself. Please. 00:01:31.800 --> 00:01:38.099 That's actually a nice analogy. Okay, so I want 00:01:38.099 --> 00:01:39.760 to share with you a little bit my feelings about 00:01:39.760 --> 00:01:42.319 Michelin. They're very personal to me, right? 00:01:42.439 --> 00:01:46.099 So Michelin, on one hand, I disagree with almost 00:01:46.099 --> 00:01:48.579 everything that they do at the moment. They don't 00:01:48.579 --> 00:01:53.140 have a certain direction anymore. They hand out 00:01:53.140 --> 00:01:54.939 stars left and right, and they take them away 00:01:54.939 --> 00:01:56.500 left and right. And you don't really know why. 00:01:57.319 --> 00:01:58.939 There's no real reason for it. You know, they 00:01:58.939 --> 00:02:00.799 hand out a star, they take it away the next year. 00:02:01.239 --> 00:02:04.180 And people are sort of like, like people that 00:02:04.180 --> 00:02:06.480 go to the restaurant, they're sort of like, the 00:02:06.480 --> 00:02:09.740 food, if anything, if it's not gotten better, 00:02:09.840 --> 00:02:11.800 which we think it has, it stayed the same. So 00:02:11.800 --> 00:02:15.139 why are you taking the star away? It's a sort 00:02:15.139 --> 00:02:17.659 of sensationalism. It's very cheap. Like with 00:02:17.659 --> 00:02:20.479 this whole green star thing, it's so sporadic. 00:02:20.960 --> 00:02:23.500 It's like, hey, we make it a big deal. Here's 00:02:23.500 --> 00:02:25.860 your green star. Amazing, right? It fits into 00:02:25.860 --> 00:02:27.699 our narrative at the moment. People like green 00:02:27.699 --> 00:02:30.180 stuff, right? Yeah, nice. Like McDonald's with 00:02:30.180 --> 00:02:32.159 the green fucking M. Basically the same thing. 00:02:32.680 --> 00:02:36.360 Pathetic, right? And then the sort of like trend 00:02:36.360 --> 00:02:38.460 dies down and they're like, whoop, now you lost 00:02:38.460 --> 00:02:40.599 it. Sorry. Oh, you're doing everything the same 00:02:40.599 --> 00:02:42.780 that you did before? Maybe even better? Doesn't 00:02:42.780 --> 00:02:45.599 matter. We take it away from you. And it's like, 00:02:45.620 --> 00:02:51.289 no. But what I, you know, Michelin. There is 00:02:51.289 --> 00:02:54.330 an idea behind it of what it maybe used to be. 00:02:54.389 --> 00:02:57.169 Maybe not. Maybe it's just my own romantic perception. 00:02:58.509 --> 00:03:05.310 But of real intention in the pursuit of excellence. 00:03:06.370 --> 00:03:08.729 And that is why when I think of Michelin, I still 00:03:08.729 --> 00:03:12.229 have a sort of nostalgic feeling to it. Because 00:03:12.229 --> 00:03:14.370 Michelin for me, as I perceived it also as a 00:03:14.370 --> 00:03:16.780 young cook. was sort of like doesn't matter if 00:03:16.780 --> 00:03:18.500 you do little gel cubes doesn't matter if you 00:03:18.500 --> 00:03:21.620 do little agar dots somewhere you know or whether 00:03:21.620 --> 00:03:24.780 you're just cooking really like rustic but like 00:03:24.780 --> 00:03:27.819 elevated elegant food it's if you're pursuing 00:03:27.819 --> 00:03:30.240 excellence you know that is what they're all 00:03:30.240 --> 00:03:33.280 about the thing that's that is why i still have 00:03:33.280 --> 00:03:34.939 that's why i like looking at this little michelin 00:03:34.939 --> 00:03:36.939 man because that's what i think of when i look 00:03:36.939 --> 00:03:40.020 at it i'm like you know the the pursuit of excellence 00:03:40.719 --> 00:03:43.259 At the same time, I completely disagree with 00:03:43.259 --> 00:03:46.879 this compendium of, you know, mostly old white 00:03:46.879 --> 00:03:51.699 men in France and the UK who just are on a power 00:03:51.699 --> 00:03:54.280 trip and just like, you get a star and you get 00:03:54.280 --> 00:03:57.000 a star and you didn't come to my fucking supper 00:03:57.000 --> 00:03:59.060 club last weekend, so I'll take a star away from 00:03:59.060 --> 00:04:02.259 you. Like, it's bullshit. It's a big circle jerk. 00:04:02.740 --> 00:04:06.240 It's a big fucking, you know, boys club circle 00:04:06.240 --> 00:04:09.080 jerk. Where should I start? You know, like, what 00:04:09.080 --> 00:04:11.919 did you say? To me, it proves one thing that, 00:04:11.939 --> 00:04:14.680 you know, like I once, when I studied design, 00:04:14.919 --> 00:04:18.240 they explained us that the greatest brand ever 00:04:18.240 --> 00:04:21.079 built was Christianism. And they actually set 00:04:21.079 --> 00:04:24.600 the foundations of what later brands would become. 00:04:24.959 --> 00:04:27.600 Also because they, you know, they created a logo, 00:04:27.680 --> 00:04:30.220 which is just like a symbol of just two lines, 00:04:30.319 --> 00:04:32.649 which is a cross. And it's something that represents 00:04:32.649 --> 00:04:36.689 an idea larger than just like a little sign. 00:04:36.769 --> 00:04:38.970 It's something, it's an idea people embrace and 00:04:38.970 --> 00:04:41.670 there is a lot behind it, right? Like I think 00:04:41.670 --> 00:04:45.220 Michelin. achieved exactly the same because like 00:04:45.220 --> 00:04:48.420 many careers and I think both of ours included 00:04:48.420 --> 00:04:52.079 like when we began at least our ambitions was 00:04:52.079 --> 00:04:56.079 to to know this start chefs going there and this 00:04:56.079 --> 00:04:58.399 is a one star a two star a three star and knowing 00:04:58.399 --> 00:05:01.060 the differences and knowing and also dreaming 00:05:01.060 --> 00:05:05.079 about getting stars ourselves and understanding 00:05:05.079 --> 00:05:08.199 what are the steps to get there and this is the 00:05:08.199 --> 00:05:12.410 whole idea of Michelin which ironically It's 00:05:12.410 --> 00:05:15.629 a tire company, and ironically, that puppet you 00:05:15.629 --> 00:05:20.970 have there is a tire monster to sell tires. If 00:05:20.970 --> 00:05:25.949 you go back, if you decode the marketing strategy, 00:05:26.029 --> 00:05:29.610 which started 100 years ago, this was basically 00:05:29.610 --> 00:05:34.420 a highway guide. To drive more so you can sell 00:05:34.420 --> 00:05:38.319 more tires. That's the strategy, right? One second, 00:05:38.620 --> 00:05:41.279 let me go to Instagram. I wanted to react to 00:05:41.279 --> 00:05:45.620 that Puglisi reel. Then you call them up and 00:05:45.620 --> 00:05:46.759 you say, oh, are you guys sustainable? Yeah, 00:05:46.839 --> 00:05:48.939 we are. Oh, let me give you a clover. What the 00:05:48.939 --> 00:05:51.980 fuck is that? Michelin Guide has spent the last, 00:05:52.120 --> 00:05:55.899 what, six decades in pushing gastronomy towards 00:05:55.899 --> 00:06:00.439 square. cutting things in a certain way. Now 00:06:00.439 --> 00:06:01.980 it seems like it's punching out shit that makes 00:06:01.980 --> 00:06:04.980 you go somewhere. The core of the way that the 00:06:04.980 --> 00:06:07.319 Michelin guy wants people to cook is wasteful. 00:06:07.899 --> 00:06:09.779 It's about being all perfect and nitty gritty 00:06:09.779 --> 00:06:13.079 and putting stuff balancing another stuff that's 00:06:13.079 --> 00:06:14.959 supposed to look pretty. Every type of leaf that 00:06:14.959 --> 00:06:16.779 does not look like this or cut out every piece 00:06:16.779 --> 00:06:18.579 of fish that is not perfectly square. When has 00:06:18.579 --> 00:06:20.279 a fish ever been square? Fish is not supposed 00:06:20.279 --> 00:06:25.399 to be square. Square doesn't swim. It pisses 00:06:25.399 --> 00:06:28.709 me off. who has been defining astronomy for so 00:06:28.709 --> 00:06:31.350 many decades, now wants to talk about sustainability, 00:06:31.389 --> 00:06:34.329 but does not do it in a sensible way. Sustainability 00:06:34.329 --> 00:06:36.410 is asking questions, asking critical questions, 00:06:36.509 --> 00:06:38.350 and asking how can we do better? Because that's 00:06:38.350 --> 00:06:39.910 what we try to do, and I know that a lot of our 00:06:39.910 --> 00:06:41.850 colleagues are trying to do, but that's not what 00:06:41.850 --> 00:06:43.029 the Michelin Guide is asking for. This is called 00:06:43.029 --> 00:06:44.750 greenwashing. This is just putting something 00:06:44.750 --> 00:06:46.449 on top that makes it look greener, and that's 00:06:46.449 --> 00:06:48.110 not good enough. So I'm kind of pissed. I was 00:06:48.110 --> 00:06:49.610 back home Monday, and TV was getting in contact 00:06:49.610 --> 00:06:50.949 with me to talk about the Michelin Guide coming 00:06:50.949 --> 00:06:52.589 out, because I was probably the only one left 00:06:52.589 --> 00:06:54.920 in the city. And I was really surprised because 00:06:54.920 --> 00:06:56.120 they started to talk about this clover. You're 00:06:56.120 --> 00:06:57.259 going to get the clover. Are you excited about 00:06:57.259 --> 00:06:58.819 getting the clover? What will it mean for you 00:06:58.819 --> 00:07:00.800 if you get the clover? What the fuck is the clover? 00:07:01.279 --> 00:07:04.040 So this is this new sustainable certification. 00:07:04.420 --> 00:07:06.180 I look up on the homepage and I find Relay amongst 00:07:06.180 --> 00:07:08.319 the clovers. And I was like, wow, okay. And there's 00:07:08.319 --> 00:07:10.279 a little quote about farms for table and shit 00:07:10.279 --> 00:07:12.420 like this. It's what we do. And yeah, okay, that's 00:07:12.420 --> 00:07:13.839 good. I'm kind of happy about it. I tried to 00:07:13.839 --> 00:07:16.920 get in touch with John Tam and ask him, what 00:07:16.920 --> 00:07:18.379 did we do? Like fill out something I don't know 00:07:18.379 --> 00:07:20.680 about or what happened? Oh, no, no, no. It was 00:07:20.680 --> 00:07:23.480 just a phone call. What do you mean? It was just 00:07:23.480 --> 00:07:25.759 a phone call. They called up the restaurant and 00:07:25.759 --> 00:07:29.180 asked for John Tam, the head chef. John Tam picks 00:07:29.180 --> 00:07:31.379 up the phone and they say, so you guys are sustainable? 00:07:31.579 --> 00:07:33.560 Yeah, kind of. We do our best. We do this and 00:07:33.560 --> 00:07:35.220 this. Oh yeah, good, cool. Thank you very much. 00:07:35.740 --> 00:07:38.800 That was it. This industry is difficult. I think 00:07:38.800 --> 00:07:40.600 it's really difficult to get through all the 00:07:40.600 --> 00:07:42.040 storytelling and all the bullshit that's going 00:07:42.040 --> 00:07:44.459 on. I just know for a fact that the produce that 00:07:44.459 --> 00:07:47.759 we put on the plate is the one major consideration 00:07:47.759 --> 00:07:50.220 you need to have when you talk about sustainability. 00:07:50.459 --> 00:07:52.519 I know about solar panels and all that, but that's 00:07:52.519 --> 00:07:55.360 easy. The produce that you choose to put on the 00:07:55.360 --> 00:07:57.579 plate is what makes the difference because you 00:07:57.579 --> 00:08:00.439 need to make an effort to do that. You need to 00:08:00.439 --> 00:08:02.040 choose something that probably costs you more, 00:08:02.120 --> 00:08:05.180 and therefore you need to support some local 00:08:05.180 --> 00:08:07.259 people doing some local good stuff. You need 00:08:07.259 --> 00:08:09.560 to support people that want to make a change 00:08:09.560 --> 00:08:12.459 and actually sacrifice to make a change. Organic 00:08:12.459 --> 00:08:15.339 is the least you can do. Now, we have a few on 00:08:15.339 --> 00:08:18.060 that list that is certified organic, but a lot 00:08:18.060 --> 00:08:20.660 are not. And I think that that's fine. But then 00:08:20.660 --> 00:08:22.439 what is it? Like, does this organic certification 00:08:22.439 --> 00:08:26.360 even account for anything in this thing? Or does 00:08:26.360 --> 00:08:29.480 it just not matter at all? A phone conversation. 00:08:30.600 --> 00:08:32.879 And that is just bullshit. You call up a restaurant 00:08:32.879 --> 00:08:35.080 and ask, what do they do? Because I guess based 00:08:35.080 --> 00:08:36.899 on some quotes on their homepage or some shit 00:08:36.899 --> 00:08:38.519 that you heard around town, and then you call 00:08:38.519 --> 00:08:39.740 them up and you say, oh, you guys are standing 00:08:39.740 --> 00:08:41.080 with, yeah, we are. Oh, here, let me give you 00:08:41.080 --> 00:08:44.940 a clover. What the fuck is that? So that was 00:08:44.940 --> 00:08:50.559 it. Yeah. I've seen that reel when it came out 00:08:50.559 --> 00:08:54.070 originally. um which is quite a while ago it's 00:08:54.070 --> 00:08:56.250 quite a few years ago yeah you already mentioned 00:08:56.250 --> 00:08:59.090 it in the podcast like many episodes ago like 00:08:59.090 --> 00:09:02.889 at least 100 episodes ago because it's it's so 00:09:02.889 --> 00:09:06.289 on point honestly you know it is so spot on it's 00:09:06.289 --> 00:09:09.769 the phoniness it's the fakeness it's the sensational 00:09:09.769 --> 00:09:16.230 like chasing you know news but it's the lack 00:09:16.230 --> 00:09:19.230 of substance i i've talked about that a lot You 00:09:19.230 --> 00:09:21.029 know, this whole sort of like everything's on 00:09:21.029 --> 00:09:23.909 the surface, but nothing actually supports it. 00:09:23.990 --> 00:09:25.610 And it's exactly that. It's sort of like, oh, 00:09:25.649 --> 00:09:28.929 yeah, I can model a whole restaurant so easily 00:09:28.929 --> 00:09:32.009 after this idea, this trend, because we're talking 00:09:32.009 --> 00:09:35.090 about a trend in a certain way, this greenwashing, 00:09:35.129 --> 00:09:38.169 farm to table, blah, blah, blah. Absolutely. 00:09:38.330 --> 00:09:41.570 No, like I would say the trend is greenwashing, 00:09:41.570 --> 00:09:44.789 not sustainability. It's pretending to be sustainable. 00:09:44.850 --> 00:09:47.120 That's the trend. Because that's way easier. 00:09:47.200 --> 00:09:48.960 It's so easy, right? So you make it a little 00:09:48.960 --> 00:09:51.000 bit this and that and blah. You go a little bit 00:09:51.000 --> 00:09:53.100 noma. You make a little bit of wood, a little 00:09:53.100 --> 00:09:55.879 bit of plants. You post on Instagram pictures 00:09:55.879 --> 00:09:58.700 of farmers, whatever. You get some land somewhere 00:09:58.700 --> 00:10:02.399 outside. You start growing vegetables. You get 00:10:02.399 --> 00:10:04.980 a little piece of land or you get some fucking 00:10:04.980 --> 00:10:07.840 buckets. You make a rooftop garden. Good. Great 00:10:07.840 --> 00:10:12.600 on you. That's great, honestly. It by no means 00:10:12.600 --> 00:10:15.820 makes you sustainable. Not even a little bit. 00:10:15.960 --> 00:10:18.080 This is the thing that also pisses me off as 00:10:18.080 --> 00:10:23.759 somebody who has been very passionate about sustainable 00:10:23.759 --> 00:10:28.139 cooking and plant -orientated cooking. I mean, 00:10:28.159 --> 00:10:30.840 as you know, I used to run this entire fucking 00:10:30.840 --> 00:10:33.659 pop -up around that idea. And I actually did 00:10:33.659 --> 00:10:36.059 a horticulture certification at one point because 00:10:36.059 --> 00:10:39.600 I was so intrigued by the connection of growing 00:10:39.600 --> 00:10:42.879 produce and... The quality that then reflects 00:10:42.879 --> 00:10:46.340 in the restaurant. There's so much that goes 00:10:46.340 --> 00:10:50.500 into it. And this half -heartedness of sort of 00:10:50.500 --> 00:10:54.779 like, oh yeah, our menu is 80 % vegetable focused. 00:10:55.000 --> 00:10:59.080 Does that make you sustainable? Not at all. Not 00:10:59.080 --> 00:11:01.299 even a fucking little bit. Sustainability is 00:11:01.299 --> 00:11:04.820 so much. And the fact that a big entity like 00:11:04.820 --> 00:11:06.799 Michelin, who's one of the most powerful entities 00:11:06.799 --> 00:11:11.000 in the culinary world. is actively engaging in 00:11:11.000 --> 00:11:15.840 this greenwashing is really damaging for people 00:11:15.840 --> 00:11:17.580 who are trying to make an actual difference. 00:11:17.919 --> 00:11:23.100 Just to also add to that idea, what does a tire 00:11:23.100 --> 00:11:25.539 company talk about promoting sustainability? 00:11:26.340 --> 00:11:30.919 You know, like, you basically work on cars. You 00:11:30.919 --> 00:11:35.559 know? Also, like, I was... You know, like I once 00:11:35.559 --> 00:11:41.759 did a research on calculating CO2 emissions in 00:11:41.759 --> 00:11:45.120 a restaurant. And that like the operation of 00:11:45.120 --> 00:11:48.820 doing that mathematically is astronomical of 00:11:48.820 --> 00:11:52.139 calculating how much emissions. Imagine every 00:11:52.139 --> 00:11:56.559 supplier on the chain from the producer to the 00:11:56.559 --> 00:11:59.279 salad where you have like 12 different ingredients 00:11:59.279 --> 00:12:01.820 that come from. 12 different locations and they 00:12:01.820 --> 00:12:04.600 were transported in 12 different ways. So imagine 00:12:04.600 --> 00:12:09.080 if you put all that together plus workers and 00:12:09.080 --> 00:12:13.500 even clients and that whole ecosystem of activity, 00:12:13.779 --> 00:12:18.460 if you calculate that. As you say, there's no 00:12:18.460 --> 00:12:21.279 sustainability at all. I've heard even of restaurants 00:12:21.279 --> 00:12:24.799 that are very on top of sustainability that do 00:12:24.799 --> 00:12:30.679 things like they will grind bottles to do plates 00:12:30.679 --> 00:12:33.019 with that. I think Silo does that. As far as 00:12:33.019 --> 00:12:35.720 I understand, that's also not necessarily sustainable. 00:12:38.289 --> 00:12:41.710 By fortune or disgrace, there is something that 00:12:41.710 --> 00:12:45.269 is inherently attached to the gastronomical experience, 00:12:45.450 --> 00:12:48.389 which is storytelling. And any good restaurateur 00:12:48.389 --> 00:12:51.370 knows this. And for that reason, you will see 00:12:51.370 --> 00:12:54.190 places like, I don't know, like Azurmendi, where 00:12:54.190 --> 00:12:56.210 you walk in and they will tell you, oh, this 00:12:56.210 --> 00:12:59.580 is our garden. And here are our tomatoes, but 00:12:59.580 --> 00:13:02.600 they're not ready because they're not in season 00:13:02.600 --> 00:13:04.820 right now. And you sit down, first course, tomatoes. 00:13:05.259 --> 00:13:07.620 And it's like, but you just told me there were 00:13:07.620 --> 00:13:09.340 no tomatoes, you know, and now you're giving 00:13:09.340 --> 00:13:12.720 them to me. You see? I think that the main thing 00:13:12.720 --> 00:13:16.039 here is generating a narrative that attracts 00:13:16.039 --> 00:13:20.440 an audience. And that's the whole thing. That's 00:13:20.440 --> 00:13:23.059 what's going on here, not something else. They 00:13:23.059 --> 00:13:25.460 don't give a shit about saving the planet. Absolutely. 00:13:25.559 --> 00:13:28.399 And I think the storytelling point that you just 00:13:28.399 --> 00:13:30.960 mentioned is a really, really good aspect to 00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:33.139 look at it. Because there's two ways that you 00:13:33.139 --> 00:13:35.379 can go about it. There are a lot of things that 00:13:35.379 --> 00:13:36.860 are happening behind the scenes. If you come 00:13:36.860 --> 00:13:38.659 to a restaurant, you have a very narrow window 00:13:38.659 --> 00:13:40.990 that you see. Nowadays, we have social. media 00:13:40.990 --> 00:13:43.750 and that's a huge added sort of image that you 00:13:43.750 --> 00:13:46.470 perceive but normally you walk into a restaurant 00:13:46.470 --> 00:13:49.190 and you have the dining room you have the service 00:13:49.190 --> 00:13:51.090 and then you have the food that comes out and 00:13:51.090 --> 00:13:53.470 that is the image that you experience nowadays 00:13:53.470 --> 00:13:55.809 social media is a big big part of it one of the 00:13:55.809 --> 00:13:57.929 biggest parts of it no because you like look 00:13:57.929 --> 00:14:00.450 at the image of the restaurant before and you 00:14:00.450 --> 00:14:02.350 get a certain idea you get a certain feeling 00:14:02.350 --> 00:14:04.710 and then you go there with a certain already 00:14:04.710 --> 00:14:07.309 like idea in mind if you think about it you go 00:14:07.309 --> 00:14:09.419 to a restaurant And the storytelling thing is, 00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:11.559 you know, somebody is like, they have a farm, 00:14:11.700 --> 00:14:13.799 they do this, they do that. The storytelling 00:14:13.799 --> 00:14:16.299 comes in as they like, they tell you and it enriches 00:14:16.299 --> 00:14:18.600 your experience. It is a way to like communicate 00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:21.980 all the effort that is put in behind the scenes. 00:14:22.120 --> 00:14:24.259 That can be good. That can be a little bit tedious. 00:14:24.360 --> 00:14:26.100 It depends how it's done, but it can be very 00:14:26.100 --> 00:14:28.639 good. The other aspect which is happening a lot 00:14:28.639 --> 00:14:31.279 more these days, I think, is the bullshit storytelling. 00:14:31.940 --> 00:14:35.610 Let me tell you. blah blah blah blah blah blah 00:14:35.610 --> 00:14:38.330 blah and the storytelling is like its own thing 00:14:38.330 --> 00:14:40.730 it's not actually like hey let me communicate 00:14:40.730 --> 00:14:42.450 to you the things that we don't see it's like 00:14:42.450 --> 00:14:44.710 hey let me paint a picture in your mind whether 00:14:44.710 --> 00:14:46.960 that picture is actually happening Doesn't matter. 00:14:47.039 --> 00:14:50.360 Let me conjure up images of radishes being pulled 00:14:50.360 --> 00:14:52.399 from the ground by our head chef in the morning. 00:14:52.480 --> 00:14:56.360 Let me paint you a picture of how our stagiaires 00:14:56.360 --> 00:15:00.500 happily walk into the morning mist to pull a 00:15:00.500 --> 00:15:02.960 pumpkin from the field, you know. And you're 00:15:02.960 --> 00:15:05.360 like, oh, wow. Yeah, nice. Very romantic. But 00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:08.159 it's like, unfortunately, more times than not 00:15:08.159 --> 00:15:10.879 these days, it's all bullshit. It's all bullshit. 00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:13.440 And that's like that. That is the thing that 00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:16.110 a lot of these like very high end. I would almost 00:15:16.110 --> 00:15:20.450 say almost all of them, they live off that. It's 00:15:20.450 --> 00:15:22.889 an important part. That's why I say, and every 00:15:22.889 --> 00:15:25.230 restaurateur knows this, starting on a specific 00:15:25.230 --> 00:15:28.149 level, you can't put a dish and just say, just 00:15:28.149 --> 00:15:31.850 explain the technicalities. Well, you could, 00:15:32.029 --> 00:15:35.210 but you have to do at least that, at least explaining 00:15:35.210 --> 00:15:38.049 some technicalities like, well, the beetroots 00:15:38.049 --> 00:15:41.149 were juiced and then mixed with butter and blah, 00:15:41.210 --> 00:15:44.500 blah, blah, at least. At least that, or you can 00:15:44.500 --> 00:15:46.740 use it, for example, like when we were in Noma, 00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:49.840 they told us they wouldn't go into the technicalities 00:15:49.840 --> 00:15:54.120 because they would just say like... fermented 00:15:54.120 --> 00:15:58.340 whey condiment. That's it. There was probably 00:15:58.340 --> 00:16:01.659 a lot behind that that was just too complex to 00:16:01.659 --> 00:16:04.620 explain. But that works. You need at least that. 00:16:04.759 --> 00:16:06.879 And if you know how to play with that, there's 00:16:06.879 --> 00:16:10.659 people that build these fictions around food 00:16:10.659 --> 00:16:14.580 just to enhance the experience. And it does because 00:16:14.580 --> 00:16:18.080 people believe it. Even if it's a lie, it doesn't 00:16:18.080 --> 00:16:20.519 matter. You know, you were mind blown by this 00:16:20.519 --> 00:16:22.580 story someone told you. You know, and that's 00:16:22.580 --> 00:16:25.960 the way it works, unfortunately. I mean, that 00:16:25.960 --> 00:16:28.399 is what Mugares lives off and has always lived 00:16:28.399 --> 00:16:32.000 off. You know, I mean, for over a decade at least. 00:16:33.039 --> 00:16:35.740 You know, I mean, when I came to Mugares, you 00:16:35.740 --> 00:16:40.480 know, you were amazed by... these images of people 00:16:40.480 --> 00:16:43.080 in the garden like harvesting flowers with a 00:16:43.080 --> 00:16:45.320 tweezer and a little scissor and blah you know 00:16:45.320 --> 00:16:46.840 and you have all these like i mean they're very 00:16:46.840 --> 00:16:48.960 very good at image building and at storytelling 00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:52.860 very good if you cut all the bullshit at the 00:16:52.860 --> 00:16:55.519 end of the day and you ignore all of that the 00:16:55.519 --> 00:16:58.679 location the story behind it etc and you just 00:16:58.679 --> 00:17:01.659 have the plate of food what is that to say you 00:17:01.659 --> 00:17:04.259 know i think well but but like i said at the 00:17:04.259 --> 00:17:07.740 end of the day a gastronomic experience there 00:17:07.740 --> 00:17:10.779 are many forces in play and the location is one 00:17:10.779 --> 00:17:13.059 of them the stories is one of them actually their 00:17:13.059 --> 00:17:15.299 last book or one of their books is the flavor 00:17:15.299 --> 00:17:19.200 of stories you know the things are not they're 00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:21.940 actually not bullshit you know like a story can 00:17:21.940 --> 00:17:26.720 change the flavor you experience of a dish like 00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:29.769 your brain Process it differently once you have 00:17:29.769 --> 00:17:33.329 a story or an environment or a setting or a dishware 00:17:33.329 --> 00:17:37.349 or whatever. All these things enhance the experience. 00:17:37.670 --> 00:17:40.329 And like I said, any people in the industry, 00:17:40.589 --> 00:17:43.650 any proper professional knows this very well 00:17:43.650 --> 00:17:47.410 and knows how to master this and setting the 00:17:47.410 --> 00:17:52.940 right setting to do it. I really like what Christian 00:17:52.940 --> 00:17:56.420 Puglisi said on that video we just watched, where 00:17:56.420 --> 00:18:00.880 he said that Michelin cut things square and that 00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:03.839 they wanted to fit just in a certain way. Because 00:18:03.839 --> 00:18:06.480 really, if you think about the expectations, 00:18:06.819 --> 00:18:10.180 the point where they're aligned, not only... 00:18:10.539 --> 00:18:13.539 for the guests, but also for the workers. They're 00:18:13.539 --> 00:18:17.000 online on a place that for me, it's toxic. And 00:18:17.000 --> 00:18:19.940 that's where chefs go crazy, where they burn 00:18:19.940 --> 00:18:23.779 out, where they humiliate their workers and suppliers 00:18:23.779 --> 00:18:28.970 in order to get the right. to place a logo at 00:18:28.970 --> 00:18:30.849 the entrance of the restaurant, which is, for 00:18:30.849 --> 00:18:33.910 me, crazy. Like, you do all this crazy thing. 00:18:34.069 --> 00:18:36.069 I was thinking about this. It's so tasteless 00:18:36.069 --> 00:18:38.450 to put the logo of Atari Company in the front 00:18:38.450 --> 00:18:40.390 of your restaurant, but at the same time, it's 00:18:40.390 --> 00:18:44.089 perceived as classy and luxurious. And for me, 00:18:44.109 --> 00:18:47.630 like, we've been brainwashed into this marketing 00:18:47.630 --> 00:18:50.190 strategy so successfully that that's the point 00:18:50.190 --> 00:18:52.349 where we are right now. And I think it's crazy. 00:18:53.459 --> 00:18:55.380 Absolutely. I was thinking about, like, there 00:18:55.380 --> 00:18:59.039 was no logo of Michelin and Noma. You usually 00:18:59.039 --> 00:19:00.900 see it when you walk in. They don't have it. 00:19:00.900 --> 00:19:05.279 And I know they're very jealous on their branding 00:19:05.279 --> 00:19:08.140 and collaborations. You know, like I know whenever 00:19:08.140 --> 00:19:10.279 they wanted to collaborate with a brand, even 00:19:10.279 --> 00:19:12.180 the greatest brands you can imagine, they were 00:19:12.180 --> 00:19:14.960 like, we can only use the Noma logo. There won't 00:19:14.960 --> 00:19:19.309 be any other logo. And I think... Well, at the 00:19:19.309 --> 00:19:22.849 same time, they don't have to show off anything. 00:19:23.529 --> 00:19:26.450 I mean, but they've also, like, had a very long, 00:19:26.490 --> 00:19:29.750 like, trajectory, you know? I think I remember, 00:19:29.769 --> 00:19:33.579 like, an interview with Rene Rezepi. many many 00:19:33.579 --> 00:19:35.640 years ago in the original norma space where it 00:19:35.640 --> 00:19:38.099 was like this whole thing about them not getting 00:19:38.099 --> 00:19:40.039 a third star when they were like the best restaurant 00:19:40.039 --> 00:19:42.039 in the world for like a really long time right 00:19:42.039 --> 00:19:44.400 and he was like would i like to get a third star 00:19:44.400 --> 00:19:46.940 yeah absolutely you know i think i remember way 00:19:46.940 --> 00:19:49.940 they're way past that right yeah like they're 00:19:49.940 --> 00:19:52.900 what what was the name of the documentary chef 00:19:52.900 --> 00:19:56.059 and their stars a german documentary is where 00:19:56.059 --> 00:19:59.440 he said that yeah yeah maybe yeah you just said 00:19:59.440 --> 00:20:02.160 something that like like reminded me of a point 00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:04.539 that always comes up for me when people talk 00:20:04.539 --> 00:20:06.259 about sustainability in a restaurant you know 00:20:06.259 --> 00:20:09.240 i feel like i'm with this like trying to fit 00:20:09.240 --> 00:20:13.819 into a square mold it's it's very very fitting 00:20:13.819 --> 00:20:16.119 to michelin they can't really do that now anymore 00:20:16.119 --> 00:20:18.619 because like too many people have broken out 00:20:18.619 --> 00:20:21.000 of this mold like el bui broke out of it and 00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:22.980 you know noma broke out of it and many many other 00:20:22.980 --> 00:20:25.240 places that followed right because it used to 00:20:25.240 --> 00:20:27.599 be like you have to be like this for us to give 00:20:27.599 --> 00:20:32.130 you our award right They say, like, it's just 00:20:32.130 --> 00:20:34.869 about the food and they embrace creativity and 00:20:34.869 --> 00:20:38.170 this or that. But just recently I heard a story, 00:20:38.170 --> 00:20:41.230 like, from a very reliable source. There's this 00:20:41.230 --> 00:20:43.670 city where there's this two -star restaurant 00:20:43.670 --> 00:20:46.250 and they had a brother restaurant that wanted 00:20:46.250 --> 00:20:48.990 to game, like, also their star. Also, you know 00:20:48.990 --> 00:20:53.490 when the inspectors are undercover? But there 00:20:53.490 --> 00:20:57.930 are some hints that, you know, like they're usually 00:20:57.930 --> 00:21:00.910 on their own. Not always, but they're usually 00:21:00.910 --> 00:21:02.710 on their own. They always will have like the 00:21:02.710 --> 00:21:05.910 whole menu and coffee afterwards. And then after 00:21:05.910 --> 00:21:09.029 two or three inspectors visited you, usually 00:21:09.029 --> 00:21:11.490 there's a booking from a visible face of the 00:21:11.490 --> 00:21:15.000 guide. whatever, the director of Spain or of 00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:17.519 New York or Mexico or whatever, and you know 00:21:17.519 --> 00:21:19.740 the name, and so you see the booking and you 00:21:19.740 --> 00:21:22.660 know this person is coming, so you're warned 00:21:22.660 --> 00:21:25.869 that they're coming. And this gives you the opportunity 00:21:25.869 --> 00:21:29.529 to do whatever you want. So I heard a story of 00:21:29.529 --> 00:21:32.089 someone who, you know, canceled all the reservations 00:21:32.089 --> 00:21:35.309 and invited all the suppliers. So he made like 00:21:35.309 --> 00:21:38.690 a fake setting of super happy people going crazy 00:21:38.690 --> 00:21:40.769 all over the dishes and everything, and nobody 00:21:40.769 --> 00:21:42.549 complaining and everything, and nobody giving 00:21:42.549 --> 00:21:44.730 a problem or anything, and be like, oh, wow, 00:21:44.829 --> 00:21:47.750 this place is amazing, going to the guy and saying 00:21:47.750 --> 00:21:50.829 like that. Again, you know, like the whole setting 00:21:50.829 --> 00:21:53.470 and environment and storytelling around a thing. 00:21:53.579 --> 00:21:57.039 is what makes something magical, right? And the 00:21:57.039 --> 00:21:59.619 other one that I heard, they wanted to fit into 00:21:59.619 --> 00:22:02.259 this mold where, I think it's the one you were 00:22:02.259 --> 00:22:05.460 suggesting, where you need to have amish bush, 00:22:05.640 --> 00:22:07.559 and you need to have petit fous, and you need 00:22:07.559 --> 00:22:09.920 to have like a specific, and if you don't have 00:22:09.920 --> 00:22:12.339 a bread basket, bread should have an important 00:22:12.339 --> 00:22:15.440 place in the menu, at least if you're doing a 00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:18.920 Western proposal, right? Like a Western, classic 00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:22.049 academically kind of cooking. So what they did 00:22:22.049 --> 00:22:24.109 is basically they did all the prep in the two 00:22:24.109 --> 00:22:25.789 -star restaurant, like the Petit Four's and the 00:22:25.789 --> 00:22:28.750 Amish Bush and all those things. And with an 00:22:28.750 --> 00:22:31.910 infrastructure of 40 chefs, they sent all the 00:22:31.910 --> 00:22:33.950 prep to the little restaurant and they got a 00:22:33.950 --> 00:22:36.769 first star right away. And that's how they did 00:22:36.769 --> 00:22:39.609 it. There's also that, you know? And that's so 00:22:39.609 --> 00:22:41.529 ridiculous, you know? And that brings me back 00:22:41.529 --> 00:22:44.630 to the point that I wanted to make with the whole 00:22:44.630 --> 00:22:47.400 sustainability attached to Michelin. It's so 00:22:47.400 --> 00:22:49.880 extremely unsustainable and not just in a way 00:22:49.880 --> 00:22:54.200 of like the food. The people. Yeah. When I was 00:22:54.200 --> 00:22:58.220 studying horticulture, I was reading a lot about 00:22:58.220 --> 00:23:01.059 permaculture. One of the biggest concepts of 00:23:01.059 --> 00:23:04.039 permaculture that stayed with me, because I was, 00:23:04.039 --> 00:23:06.079 this is about like landscaping and stuff like 00:23:06.079 --> 00:23:09.000 that, you know, agriculture. But I, for me, I 00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:11.299 really made a connection with kitchens and workplace 00:23:11.299 --> 00:23:17.579 also is the, the human. interference needed so 00:23:17.579 --> 00:23:20.720 there was like there's this big bible sort of 00:23:20.720 --> 00:23:23.240 like the earth care manual i think it's called 00:23:23.240 --> 00:23:26.279 and it was showing you like this little diagram 00:23:26.279 --> 00:23:29.880 of like what a permacultural and sustainable 00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:32.779 plot of land could look like and it was talking 00:23:32.779 --> 00:23:37.140 about the least human interference that you need 00:23:37.140 --> 00:23:40.059 is the best Because that is the most sustainable. 00:23:40.480 --> 00:23:42.859 And what we're doing, I mean, what the trend 00:23:42.859 --> 00:23:44.900 was in Michelin star kitchens is the complete 00:23:44.900 --> 00:23:47.900 opposite. More and more and more and more and 00:23:47.900 --> 00:23:50.099 more people and more hours and more this and 00:23:50.099 --> 00:23:53.059 more that. And it's like, man, it's like trying 00:23:53.059 --> 00:23:55.980 to solve a situation by getting angrier and angrier 00:23:55.980 --> 00:23:58.180 and angrier and angrier and angrier. That's exactly 00:23:58.180 --> 00:24:00.630 what was happening in kitchens also, right? And 00:24:00.630 --> 00:24:03.009 like, so these days also when I hear people kind 00:24:03.009 --> 00:24:04.789 of talking about sort of like, oh yeah, we have 00:24:04.789 --> 00:24:06.470 so and so many chefs, like we work so and so 00:24:06.470 --> 00:24:08.849 many hours. I mean, how many fucking times have 00:24:08.849 --> 00:24:11.269 we had conversations like that with people from 00:24:11.269 --> 00:24:13.529 the industry? And I'm kind of like, you cannot 00:24:13.529 --> 00:24:16.349 talk about being sustainable in any fucking way. 00:24:16.430 --> 00:24:20.269 I don't give a shit. Like, you know, like how 00:24:20.269 --> 00:24:22.710 many farmers you have and like how much land 00:24:22.710 --> 00:24:25.190 you have and this and that and blah. If you have 00:24:25.190 --> 00:24:27.430 this and this many chefs and all of these chefs 00:24:27.430 --> 00:24:30.339 that work, I mean, come on. Over what, like 10 00:24:30.339 --> 00:24:32.440 hours? 10 hours for normal people is still a 00:24:32.440 --> 00:24:34.839 lot. That's more than a workday, right? For me, 00:24:34.859 --> 00:24:37.420 that's a half day. One thing is if you do 10 00:24:37.420 --> 00:24:40.160 hours and you achieved many things. The other 00:24:40.160 --> 00:24:43.259 thing is if you work 10 hours and you were trimming 00:24:43.259 --> 00:24:50.099 leaves to make them square. Yeah. And cutting 00:24:50.099 --> 00:24:54.250 them in a cookie mold. round herbs and throwing 00:24:54.250 --> 00:24:57.650 the frames away. There's also this concept of 00:24:57.650 --> 00:25:00.789 the curse of the Michelin. Very early, Alain 00:25:00.789 --> 00:25:02.849 Saint -Denis, I think he was one of the very 00:25:02.849 --> 00:25:05.230 first ones to give up his star and saying, I 00:25:05.230 --> 00:25:06.890 don't want this shit. I don't want this curse. 00:25:07.089 --> 00:25:12.529 It's like a gift, a poison gift. Also, Marco 00:25:12.529 --> 00:25:15.430 Pierre White, he also gave away his stars. Well, 00:25:15.549 --> 00:25:18.009 there is a saying that, theoretically, if you 00:25:18.009 --> 00:25:21.819 have one star, you will sell 30 % more. Two stars, 00:25:21.920 --> 00:25:26.420 60, and three stars, 100 % more sales, which 00:25:26.420 --> 00:25:29.059 I think it's believable. I think that's the whole 00:25:29.059 --> 00:25:34.059 thing around this because there is an intermediary 00:25:34.059 --> 00:25:38.359 needed between the consumer and the supplier, 00:25:38.579 --> 00:25:40.200 in this case, the restaurant and the producer, 00:25:40.299 --> 00:25:42.900 right? Like restaurants produce gastronomic experiences. 00:25:43.700 --> 00:25:45.480 But I don't think it's true anymore, though. 00:25:45.759 --> 00:25:48.000 No, no, no. I think this will be true always. 00:25:48.519 --> 00:25:52.039 And also in any industry. You know, like in order 00:25:52.039 --> 00:25:54.400 for a dentist to get clients, he needs to be 00:25:54.400 --> 00:25:56.940 on the internet, for example. He needs a website. 00:25:57.079 --> 00:26:00.019 But that Michelin is directly connected to that. 00:26:00.140 --> 00:26:01.640 I don't think that... No, no, no. I think... 00:26:01.640 --> 00:26:05.420 I lost my point, sorry. What I wanted to say, 00:26:05.480 --> 00:26:08.680 I think Michelin is directly connected to bad 00:26:08.680 --> 00:26:12.720 environments and kitchens. Interesting, yeah. 00:26:13.339 --> 00:26:17.440 You won't see people going overly crazy if they're 00:26:17.440 --> 00:26:22.079 not ambitioning for a start or trying to preserve 00:26:22.079 --> 00:26:26.069 a start. you know, or making extra hours. It's 00:26:26.069 --> 00:26:28.369 like we're doing this for this. Like the ambition 00:26:28.369 --> 00:26:31.809 is not let's make this and this profits at the 00:26:31.809 --> 00:26:35.589 end of the year. Or let's everybody become rich. 00:26:35.769 --> 00:26:39.089 Or let's everybody change history by creating 00:26:39.089 --> 00:26:41.549 this new technique no one has ever done before, 00:26:41.690 --> 00:26:43.710 which is something I would say El Bulli had that 00:26:43.710 --> 00:26:45.589 ambition, for example, and other restaurants 00:26:45.589 --> 00:26:48.190 as well, of course. But you could then El Bulli 00:26:48.190 --> 00:26:50.710 clearly see an ambition that they wanted to explore 00:26:50.710 --> 00:26:54.359 unexplored ground. in the culinary world, and 00:26:54.359 --> 00:26:56.779 that was their thing. But in many, many, many 00:26:56.779 --> 00:26:58.980 cases, and the restaurants we're talking about 00:26:58.980 --> 00:27:00.920 here are the restaurants that said, no, we're 00:27:00.920 --> 00:27:02.819 not doing this because we have a star and we 00:27:02.819 --> 00:27:04.799 want a second, and we have a second and we want 00:27:04.799 --> 00:27:06.779 a third, or we don't have a star but we want 00:27:06.779 --> 00:27:09.420 a star. For that reason, we're going to change 00:27:09.420 --> 00:27:13.180 the menu and do this and become better. I don't 00:27:13.180 --> 00:27:15.460 know. I think there is a correlation, and also 00:27:15.460 --> 00:27:18.759 not necessarily more sales because there's also 00:27:18.759 --> 00:27:21.880 a specific market for that, and this doesn't 00:27:21.880 --> 00:27:26.000 work. in every city or every client group, okay? 00:27:26.700 --> 00:27:30.059 I totally get your point. The other point I was 00:27:30.059 --> 00:27:32.740 saying is that Michelin and any guide responds 00:27:32.740 --> 00:27:36.279 to a need, and that's a need in the market. Like 00:27:36.279 --> 00:27:39.000 people need, you know, like you know about restaurants 00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:41.759 and I know about restaurants, but Mr. Smith. 00:27:42.279 --> 00:27:46.160 who doesn't have an idea and he goes to a specific 00:27:46.160 --> 00:27:50.279 city, he will go to Michelin or TripAdvisor or 00:27:50.279 --> 00:27:53.220 Google Business or the list of some influencer 00:27:53.220 --> 00:27:56.980 or some book or he will ask friends or he would 00:27:56.980 --> 00:28:00.339 go into whatever. But there is a need to build 00:28:00.339 --> 00:28:03.400 that bridge. And what Michelin has done is that 00:28:03.400 --> 00:28:06.119 the European standard, because that's also another 00:28:06.119 --> 00:28:10.920 thing, it's a Eurocentric. that whatever you 00:28:10.920 --> 00:28:14.319 see outside, it's still Eurocentric. It's, ah, 00:28:14.359 --> 00:28:17.480 let's give this Michelin star to this exotic 00:28:17.480 --> 00:28:21.660 taco place because it's ethnic, or to this hawker 00:28:21.660 --> 00:28:24.720 place in Singapore because it's so, wow, it's 00:28:24.720 --> 00:28:28.299 so exotic that we can have an experience here. 00:28:28.420 --> 00:28:32.609 And I'm like... You know, that's not a star standard. 00:28:32.829 --> 00:28:34.710 You know, like once you're in the business and 00:28:34.710 --> 00:28:36.450 you know these things, you know what's a star 00:28:36.450 --> 00:28:38.269 and a two star and a three star and you can tell. 00:28:38.569 --> 00:28:41.349 It's phony. Yeah, it's like, oh, look at us, 00:28:41.390 --> 00:28:44.170 you know. We're so inclusive. We're so sustainable. 00:28:45.039 --> 00:28:47.559 Yeah, I definitely see your point. I think what 00:28:47.559 --> 00:28:49.740 you're saying is like I would agree with it for 00:28:49.740 --> 00:28:52.339 like a big percentage of things. I think it's 00:28:52.339 --> 00:28:54.960 definitely possible to have a Michelin star restaurant 00:28:54.960 --> 00:28:58.519 and not be toxic. And I also I know of restaurants 00:28:58.519 --> 00:29:02.279 that don't care and don't like especially like 00:29:02.279 --> 00:29:04.160 here in Dubai, for example, you know, like Michelin 00:29:04.160 --> 00:29:05.819 is very new here. And before that, there were 00:29:05.819 --> 00:29:08.119 a lot of restaurants that were pushing a lot. 00:29:08.759 --> 00:29:12.180 Also, like in not the most healthy way without 00:29:12.180 --> 00:29:14.849 ever getting like a star, you know. I agree. 00:29:14.950 --> 00:29:17.390 I agree. I don't say it's all the cases, but 00:29:17.390 --> 00:29:21.690 I say there is a visible pattern of that. Yeah, 00:29:22.509 --> 00:29:24.869 absolutely. I think the thing is also with giving 00:29:24.869 --> 00:29:27.190 the stars away, and I think the important part 00:29:27.190 --> 00:29:30.470 is how free you are as a creative, as somebody 00:29:30.470 --> 00:29:32.839 who makes something, right? Are you going to 00:29:32.839 --> 00:29:35.960 enslave yourself to the idea of getting a star 00:29:35.960 --> 00:29:39.539 and being dependent on somebody giving you this 00:29:39.539 --> 00:29:41.619 out of the grace of their, you know, whatever? 00:29:41.839 --> 00:29:44.299 Is that going to change what you do? It's also 00:29:44.299 --> 00:29:46.160 the curse of social media, right? It's like, 00:29:46.240 --> 00:29:48.279 well, on one side, I get all this information 00:29:48.279 --> 00:29:50.660 and it's great. I get a lot of inspiration. But 00:29:50.660 --> 00:29:52.859 at the same time, how much of like authentic, 00:29:53.079 --> 00:29:55.960 unauthentic me am I bringing into the things 00:29:55.960 --> 00:29:59.039 that I'm creating and developing? So if I'm chasing 00:29:59.039 --> 00:30:03.049 a Michelin star, If I didn't have that, if I 00:30:03.049 --> 00:30:04.890 didn't have the social media, if I didn't have 00:30:04.890 --> 00:30:07.430 the trends that I'm getting fed, if I didn't 00:30:07.430 --> 00:30:09.230 have a tire company telling me, hey, this is 00:30:09.230 --> 00:30:11.829 cool right now, would I be doing the same thing 00:30:11.829 --> 00:30:13.529 that I'm doing right now? Or would I be creating 00:30:13.529 --> 00:30:16.390 something completely different out of my inner 00:30:16.390 --> 00:30:19.450 world, like what I find exciting, without caring 00:30:19.450 --> 00:30:21.730 about all of that shit? Would it be the same? 00:30:21.890 --> 00:30:23.349 And I think that's the question that we need 00:30:23.349 --> 00:30:26.269 to ask ourselves a lot. This guide started 100 00:30:26.269 --> 00:30:29.950 years ago, and it was like a guide. Now it has 00:30:29.950 --> 00:30:32.609 become this idea, and also it exists because 00:30:32.609 --> 00:30:35.769 they invest resources into it. You have to pay 00:30:35.769 --> 00:30:38.730 the inspectors. These are full -time jobs. You 00:30:38.730 --> 00:30:41.410 have to do all the fact -checking and everything, 00:30:41.509 --> 00:30:43.410 and that's an infrastructure. It's like a company. 00:30:43.769 --> 00:30:46.410 The whole marketing strategy is like a whole 00:30:46.410 --> 00:30:49.599 company, and that's the reason. No one has been 00:30:49.599 --> 00:30:51.980 able to push it back, you know, because you have, 00:30:52.059 --> 00:30:55.400 like I said, like 50 bests or 50 bests at the 00:30:55.400 --> 00:30:58.799 end of the day is 50 restaurants in the whole 00:30:58.799 --> 00:31:02.559 world or in the whole region, right? Like Michelin, 00:31:02.720 --> 00:31:06.119 if they go to a country, they will measure the 00:31:06.119 --> 00:31:09.099 whole country or the whole city, which also, 00:31:09.119 --> 00:31:11.240 this is important to say that there are cities 00:31:11.240 --> 00:31:14.710 that... For example, it was disclosed that Florida 00:31:14.710 --> 00:31:18.450 tourism boards paid $3 million just to be reviewed. 00:31:18.710 --> 00:31:20.990 It's not something that, oh, we discovered this 00:31:20.990 --> 00:31:24.049 undiscovered food scene in Florida and we went 00:31:24.049 --> 00:31:26.970 there to... No, no, no, that's not how it works. 00:31:27.150 --> 00:31:30.640 This is not... It's not the film academy that 00:31:30.640 --> 00:31:34.359 has a purpose of good cinema. At the end of the 00:31:34.359 --> 00:31:37.740 day, here, this is a PR company for themselves. 00:31:38.079 --> 00:31:44.579 Same as San Pellegrino. These are all PR companies. 00:31:44.839 --> 00:31:47.480 This is something that really pisses me off when 00:31:47.480 --> 00:31:50.980 I see these chefs that are... That they can't 00:31:50.980 --> 00:31:53.359 even hide it, that they're genuinely motivated 00:31:53.359 --> 00:31:56.859 by their egos, like a little children where you 00:31:56.859 --> 00:31:59.180 say, here, you have a star. And they go to the 00:31:59.180 --> 00:32:01.519 other children and say, look, I have a star. 00:32:01.700 --> 00:32:04.700 And then another one comes in, I have two. And 00:32:04.700 --> 00:32:08.180 that's the chef world that go around like that, 00:32:08.220 --> 00:32:12.200 just showing off their little prizes that they 00:32:12.200 --> 00:32:17.829 got. And I think this system should... turn obsolete 00:32:17.829 --> 00:32:21.609 at some point i think you know like today there 00:32:21.609 --> 00:32:25.259 are the tools when i was a kid Internet was not 00:32:25.259 --> 00:32:27.859 what it is today. And you could imagine this 00:32:27.859 --> 00:32:31.259 futuristic digital communities where things could 00:32:31.259 --> 00:32:35.440 be built and societies could be changed. And 00:32:35.440 --> 00:32:38.220 I think today there are all the resources to 00:32:38.220 --> 00:32:43.900 create a new way of measuring restaurants in 00:32:43.900 --> 00:32:47.099 transparent ways where you know what was being 00:32:47.099 --> 00:32:51.539 pointed, who pointed it, when. People working 00:32:51.539 --> 00:32:53.940 there being treated with dignity, like, just 00:32:53.940 --> 00:32:57.259 dignity, you know? Like, also the thing, you 00:32:57.259 --> 00:32:59.359 get a green star and then you're paying, like, 00:32:59.359 --> 00:33:02.779 your dishwasher three hours an hour, you know? 00:33:02.819 --> 00:33:07.200 Like, and you're not even in black, you know? 00:33:07.220 --> 00:33:09.259 Like, you're not even paying, like, with proper 00:33:09.259 --> 00:33:12.660 taxes. Those things are going on all over, you 00:33:12.660 --> 00:33:16.640 know? Like, the whole time, man. Yeah. I think 00:33:16.640 --> 00:33:23.140 those are my opinions about it. That's it for 00:33:23.140 --> 00:33:25.559 this week's episode of Putt Lock Food Talks. 00:33:25.559 --> 00:33:27.940 If you like what we're doing, make sure to subscribe 00:33:27.940 --> 00:33:30.200 to the podcast so you never miss an episode. 00:33:30.559 --> 00:33:32.640 You can also find us on Instagram and TikTok 00:33:32.640 --> 00:33:35.859 as Putt Lock Food Talks. The show airs every 00:33:35.859 --> 00:33:36.140 Monday.