You're listening to Heritage Radio Network. Hi
everyone, welcome to Pot Luck Food Talks. I'm
screening direct from Malaga, southern Spain.
This is a show where we talk about nonsensical
food topics. Phil is just ordering some Chinese
food. Well, I was. You interrupted me. I didn't
want to be on my phone while we were starting
this episode. Ah, okay. I didn't have a chance
to brew myself another oolong. I didn't have
time to order my beef tendon soup from Din Tai
Fung. It just caught me with my pants down, basically.
There's something I wanted to talk with you,
man. I've been having this recurrent idea and
I'm not sure if it's absolute genius or absolute...
Does it have anything to do with British people's
opinion on lemon curd and lemon pies or tarts?
Well, it could be related, but it's not directly
related to that. No, no, no. I was thinking these
two ideas. I will just say them plainly and you
let me know the first thing that comes to your
mind. One would be this cheesecake that has a
little bit of blue cheese to add some... some
depth, some funkiness to it, but so little that
it's subtle, but it just makes it better. And
it's super counterintuitive to add blue cheese.
I mean, at least if you've never seen it before.
Two ideas. Number one would be anchovies, and
number two would be foie gras. You know, I would
have said that I don't like the idea if you had
asked me this question yesterday. But thinking
about it, As a substitute for blue cheese, I
can kind of see it. I can kind of see it working.
But foie gras, yeah, for sure. I can also see
that. Foie gras, I see for sure. Like, anchovy,
I think it's, you know, like the daring one.
Like, it's a gutsy one, you know? That is very
true. You need to have balls to serve that. I
think that's what makes it interesting. Like,
from a... Mugari thought process perspective.
You know, at the end of the day, it's eggs, anchovies,
and cream cheese, which absolutely works together.
It has to work together, you know? Like, it's
not something... The only thing that makes it...
But yet, at the same time, even sugar, man, you
know, like, there was this iconic, like, a tapa
that Ferran Adria would do that was... condensed
milk you know this milk yeah milk syrup basically
with anchovies those two things you know and
it works pretty well like that contrast of ancho
or even the sour anchovies at chepecha that are
with blueberry jam you know i think that the
only problem here is the dessert concept you
know like having a dessert with fish I've never
had it, and I don't know if it's something that
I would dig. But doing that and putting it in
some kind of other context, maybe as a starter
or as a component of some other things in a dish,
or even as a savory dessert. Have you had savory
desserts before? I'm pretty sure that I have.
I mean, also things going on the verge of savory.
A savory, I mean... Dessert as savory. That is
a difficult question, huh? I went to this restaurant
called John Dory in Amsterdam. And I remember
having a savory dessert there. And it was, yeah,
it was like crispy chicken skin with foie gras.
And I don't know what else. These were all like,
you know, like savory components. It had like
a sweet spot. But at the end of the day, it was
like having like a very sweet, savory dish. And
I'm not super like a sweet tooth kind of person.
So for me, that was super cool. You know, like
having that at the end of the meal, just like,
I think, by the way, I think foie gras is a great
dessert. You know, like having, instead of having
whatever, a chocolate cake, having a foie gras
with blueberries or whatever, you know, like
that perfectly works. I totally agree. I totally
agree. Yeah. The problem is the fish, the anchovies,
you know, like. But I want to try it, man. I
just want to get the curiosity out and see what
happens. Honestly, I think that it will and could
work. I think both together could work really
well as well. Blue cheese and anchovies. And
foie gras. No, no, no. Anchovy and foie gras
together. I can see blue cheese and anchovy.
But anchovy and foie gras, yeah, wow. I don't
see it like... I'm thinking about it now, right?
And, you know, things that for me enter in a
savory dessert category and kind of why I'm also
now thinking that anchovy and foie gras would
probably work. So I was just thinking sort of
like, okay, you mentioned like having foie gras
as dessert. I love that. And when I was living
in San Sebastian, you know, I used to love kind
of going for pinchos. And then when you're just
full... like maybe you even go to the fucking
vineyard and have a cheesecake you know if you
really feel like just doing it or whatever but
then you go to bar sport and you have a foie
gras just to fucking give you that last that
last punch in the stomach to really take you
out of commission have you had the foie gras
at atari no i used to never go to atari Dude,
like that has become my favorite foie gras. They
do it like with, you know, this overly savory
corns that you get with beer, corn nuts, you
know, this crunchy. Corn nuts, caramelized and
powder. It's always a good idea to use corn with...
foie gras or whatever the animal eats use it
as whatever around the dish right you know this
crunchy nuts this caramelized cornflakes kind
of thing you know like not cornflakes cornflakes
but this one that came with honey and you know
like anyways like it reminded me of this kind
of cereals breakfast cereals that on top of the
foie gras and the interesting part is what comes
next and basically like a very thick white chocolate
ganache Interesting. It's so good. So fucking
good, man. Like adding like a generous amount
of the white chocolate ganache on top of the
foie gras is just heaven. Yeah, I'm a big fan
of that. You know, like for example, I also love
at the end of a sushi meal, a tamago, tamagoyaki,
the one that's like soaked a little bit with
this like sweet, sweet liquid. Amazing. I love
that. or like there's this thing also you know
like the other day i had an inari sushi you know
you know what it is there's this uh fried tofu
that you soak in like a sweet dashi and it becomes
like a pocket and inari sushi is basically um
sushi rice that's like mixed with certain things
wrapped in that pocket so it's like a little
nigiri and it's like sweet and like the other
day i had one I had a sushi tasting with one
of the new sushi chefs and the sushi was pretty
bad. It wasn't very good. But there was one thing
that was really nice and I was very surprised
by it, which was an Inari sushi and the rice
was flavored with yuzu and truffle. And that
combination was like really, I was like, oh wow,
that's really, really cool. It's counterintuitive
for me, like Citrix and truffle. Or, yeah, or
even mushrooms and truffle and mushrooms and
citrus is something that I hesitate to, you know.
Yeah, yeah. But it really worked. And that has
this thing where it's kind of it's savory, but
at the same time, it's sweet. And it's a perfect
ending. You know, we, for example, like if I
would go to Rowan, the restaurant where I'm working
right now, and I had a long meal and I just want
to have that like last little fucking push. Maybe
even after I've eaten desserts. We do a hand
roll, sushi hand roll, a temaki with foie gras
and unagi. Like roasted unagi with like a sweet
sort of like chipotle honey soy sauce and roasted
foie gras. That sounds so dirty to me. Stop it.
It's insane. It's a Michael Hoepfel classic,
and it's so, so good. Maybe one of my favorite
dishes I had in Japan, and I ate a lot of things
in Japan, was this unagi blue cheeseburger. You
know, like, super, super nice. Well, talking
about desserts, so I want to make a statement
for all our British listeners. This might sound
crazy out of this planet, but tarts and custards
and creme caramel and crema catalana and flans
and cheesecakes and pumpkin pies and all of this
can be creamy and can be not settled like a gummy
bear. And that's fine. And that's a thing in
the rest of the world. You know, also in the
rest of the world, people drive on the other
side of the car. That's also like, you know,
like there's a world outside of your island where
other things happen. You know, I just wanted
to share that thought. This goes for people from
the UK, but also for Americans, you know, who
seem to have a very, very strong opinion on things.
You know what I dislike? And there was a guy
in the comments commenting on a lemon pie. Wait,
wait, wait. We should put in context. People
don't know what we're talking about. We should
put in context what happened. So Phil posted
this video of a lemon curd. So it's basically
like a very runny, creamy lemon curd. And then
suddenly, well, but this also happened before
when we posted a video with a cheesecake. which
was like a super runny cheesecake which is the
way I like them the most and suddenly we this
smart asses appear like you know like with this
condescending tone like preaching saying like
well if you how did this motherfucker said it
was like well next time if you do it correctly
it would be settled and yeah that's the correct
way to do it and it's like this correct for who
who are you who do you pretend to be because
you know like we talk about a lemon tart I can
think about Massimo Bottura who is a you can
like him or dislike him but he's a person in
the food world or the cheesecake of Sueroa, which
is also and I can sing also chocolate tarts or
the flan of Albert Adria. These are big names.
OK, and they use like very runny versions of
this dessert. And then suddenly. Mr. Poppy Guy
comes and starts lecturing on a comment section
on a social media channel and is like, dude,
you're just a fucking idiot. Go find something
to do with your life. That's my opinion. Sorry.
Okay, go ahead. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely
agree. We were sort of roasting him a little
bit. As we do when people comment stupid shit.
And he was like, oh, I don't know why you're
getting so offended. And he deleted his comment.
He said, I don't know why you're getting so offended.
You and I know I'm right. It's exactly because
of that posture. That's basically it. Yeah, but
what I was gonna say is that it's sort of like,
man, nobody's getting offended. Like, you know,
like, we don't care about your opinion. It doesn't
matter. Like, but like, what I find always very
fascinating is this entitled and unqualified,
ignorant opinion, you know, when somebody tells
me, hey, in my country, They make a fucking,
I don't know, like I can't think of it. They
make a chocolate mousse. It's kind of like an
aerated mousse, but it's liquid. I won't be like,
that's wrong. You can't do that. A mousse has
to be like a foamy with egg white. And that's
the way it was done in 1854. And that's how my
grandmother used to do it. And that's a proper
mousse. And what you did is not correct. Shut
the fuck up. Go somewhere else. Don't leave your
stupid crap on our comment section. Especially
with cooking, honestly. Almost with anything
else. It's kind of like, man, you don't know
anything. Me also. It's kind of like, I regularly
come across things where I'm sort of like, I've
never seen that before in my life. I don't really
know how to make it either. It's fucking fascinating.
That's the cool thing about cooking. like some
and like rules are also there like they're meant
to be broken it doesn't matter it's always the
people who because like i remember i was sort
of like oh you must be like a an amazing professional
chef you know to share your wisdom here and he
was like no my days as a professional chef are
long gone and i was like then shut the fuck up
man like you know you're like who are you man
just like just zip it keep it to yourself nobody
cares about you being at your home on your sofa
pretending like you know what the you're talking
about because you don't so the the case in this
it's a lemon curd where the the eggs are boiled
and that that's For anyone with an academic background
in culinary craft, that's counterintuitive. That's
against the rules. You don't do that. You're
not supposed to do that. I guess it works because
it has so much fat and so much liquid that the
egg somehow doesn't over -coagulate. Because
there were some smart people asking, it doesn't
have an omelette taste. And that's the interesting
thing about this recipe for people who don't
get it. In any case... I take it back. I think
all those idiots that want to comment on our
section are welcome. That just helps the algorithm
to get more traction to our channel. So please
continue doing so. Sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's
also the thing. Lots of people are commenting
sort of like, oh, but doesn't it taste like an
omelet? And I'm like, that's exactly the interesting
thing about it. And then there was lots of people
sort of like, oh, so you're talking about a lemon
curd? And I'm like... Do you actually think,
do you know how many ways there are that you
can make a lemon curd? But just dumping everything
into a pot and boiling the shit out of raw egg
is definitely not a normal way to do it. Yeah,
exactly. And it's not something you will find
on a cookbook, like at least not on any cookbook.
In many cases, you will see like a water bath
and do it slowly. Exactly. You know, like all
these things. There are also like this other
one that said, oh, this prick. This prick just
discovered... That was funny. This prick just
discovered 11, Kurt, and he's a genius. And it's
like, God. Anyways. But it was funny. This guy
actually responded to... Because I heckled him.
I gave him a response. And he actually reacted
with a smiley face. So that's all good. Anglo
people have a problem with creamy tarts, you
know, like creamy pies and tarts and cheesecakes
and chocolate cakes. You know, like the coulant,
for example. You know, like the coulant is supposed
to be like an uncooked chocolate cake. But yet
at the same time, because I think this is also
interesting, what is cooked? You know, like to
say something is cooked, when is something cooked?
You know, there has to be an indicator, a physical,
chemical KPI that determines that something is
cooked. Like a core temperature or something,
you know? Like, if you dominate that and you
know, like, yeah, I know at this temperature
my egg is not coagulated, but also not rare.
So then... Technically, it's cooked according
to those parameters. But of course, the only
parameter that it has is a caveman that has to
stick a knife inside a cake and find it dry.
If that's the only parameter you have, then everything
will be undercooked for you. Yeah, yeah. I mean,
it all boils down, I think, to... um a stance
to take a sort of like of realizing it's like
hey maybe the how i know that things are done
is not the only way that things are done and
maybe that's okay and maybe the way that i like
to do things doesn't have to be superior to how
other people like to do things because it's not
you know but people have corrected versus incorrect
you know like that that dichotomy of correct
correct according to who Correct according to
which parameters. Yeah, absolutely. As you were
saying, it's so interesting that, for example,
I love the steak the way it's cooked in the Basque
country, which is basically rare as hell. But
I do understand that, for example... I know that
Argentina is a great grilling country, so is
Japan, and so is the United States, you know,
among many others. And I know that's not the
way it's cooked there. And I would never dare
to go to Argentina and say, it's overcooked.
It should be rare, like the way we do it in the
bus country. You know, like, it's wrong. It's
not correct. Dude, just travel, you know, like,
but not only physically, like, also intellectually.
Take a journey through the world and see how
things are done and that the world is way larger
than your couch where you're posting comments
on social media. So we were talking about savory
desserts or desserts with savory components.
There's another thing that I think it's quite
interesting and it's the role of bread in a menu.
You know, like in very... classic settings let's
say in a classic three mission and star restaurant
from 50 years ago they would be like like the
bread basket right and there would be like 170
different kinds of bread and you would have like
different pieces and this and that or then you
you also have like like the bread on the side
but i think something that i think it's pretty
cool and i've seen in some nice restaurants is
when they do like a bread course. You know, like
suddenly there's nothing on the table. There
is just bread and butter. And you have your time
just to enjoy like a beautiful bread and butter
or other things. Maybe there is whatever, you
know, like olive oil or I don't know what else.
Things that you can play around with your bread.
But you're actually only enjoying your bread
and giving it its space and not using it just
like as a... filling component to clean the sauce
of the plate you know like i think that's also
pretty cool i mean the enjoyment of good bread
you know it's like it's a thing in itself and
bread when it's good it's i mean bread is such
a magical fucking creation right through the
course of like fermentation all the things that
happen in the fermentation the flavor that gets
developed the way the sugars change and then
caramelize you know the way it's cooked Like
if I think of like a sourdough loaf, you know,
that's first like basically steamed, you know,
with a lot of moisture and then, you know, dry
baked until it's golden. It's an amazing product.
And if it's done correctly, it's like there are
few things in life that are more delicious to
me than a well -made piece of bread and a good
butter or good olive oil. It's one of life's
greatest enjoyments. Olive oil or butter? I don't
know. Butter wins every time for me. I know you're
the kind of butter people. I'm the olive oil
kind of people. I think it's genetic. I can appreciate
both. It's only you olive oil people who hate
on the butter people. Us butter people, we're
like, yeah, man, I prefer butter. I prefer butter,
but olive oil is also nice. It's only the olive
oil people that are like... only olive oil butter
is no butter is for barbarians i'm i'm from the
you know like i'm from the south no but a good
bread with olive oil uh or a panko tomate or
with an iberico ham that's just i don't think
there's anything better in life do you remember
in my goal when we used to in the morning bake
the leftover flutes and often you would grate
some tomato and like mix some il cassone olive
oil into it and we used to have the flutes in
the morning like uh with like basically like
a little frenchy pan con tomate i don't remember
that i did that what a cool guy yeah yeah so
we yeah exactly so we used to always like often
we used to have like two trays of flutes which
are like little baguettes left over from the
day that were unbaked and we would bake them
in the morning for breakfast it was one of my
favorite parts of the day and often we would
just have them with like salted butter But sometimes
you would like take a tomato, grate it, add some
like olive oil. We had this really nice olive
oil and we just like spoon it onto the bread
and eat it. It was fucking amazing start to the
day always. Yeah, that il cassone, that olive
oil, I've never found it again. It was like an
incredible Italian olive oil. It was very nice.
It was very nice. Yeah. That's also an interesting
question. Olive oil, Italian or Spanish? or greek
or or french or i don't know i don't care i really
don't care like this i've had so many olive oils
from italy that were both really amazing and
also super i have so many olive oils from stain
that were absolute crap and also incredibly delicious
same for greece i've had olive oil that is basically
like petroleum but all of all that's really delicious
but really i think i think in spain the average
is at least good that but to be honest i think
That's a discussion. You could say... I could
accept if someone tells me, no, it's Italy. In
the case of olive oil, Italy reigns supreme.
But what I think there is no discussion, and
there isn't, is about jamón, about the jam. There
is no discussion. There is zero discussion who
has the best jamón. There is nothing that comes
close to a jamón ibérico. Right? It's just, you
know, it's a magic animal, like Homer Simpson
would say. Yeah. I remember there was an Anthony
Bourdain episode where he was in, I think, Madrid.
And he was going around with this guy. I don't
even know who it is. Maybe you, if you see him,
you know who it is. It was like this Spanish
guy. He had like a big gray beard. He was like
a little bit like opulent. And I don't know whether
he was like a foodie or like an art person or
something, but like they went to eat, go eat
jamon in a, like a super traditional place. And
they had this like big plate with the typical
sort of like, you know, round sort of plated
jamon. And the guy was like, and you take the
jamon and first you like touch it and you, you
rub it in between your fingers and you, you feel
the oiliness in it. And they were like putting
these slices of jamon in their mouth. like they
were like little jewels like and you could see
them like letting it melt on their tongue and
they were just like eating one slice after the
next just going like oh i remember watching that
at some point and i was like oh my god like i
i know what that's like it's not like i'm watching
like a foreign thing like i grew up in spain
you know like come on is amazing no no when you
have a good a good time on it will really make
you you know like close your eyes yeah it's godly
yeah but hey this brings me to a thing in recent
years i've had so many jamon jamon cheesecake
amazing i can see that yeah i can see that no
like yeah you know like whatever jamon is cooked
i think it it loses like i don't know like Yeah,
but you do that with the trims. You do that with
the ham that you can't eat because it's all the
trims and you cook it. And yeah, it's delicious,
but I think it's just better if you have it rare.
I don't know. For me, it's hard to argue with
a good croqueta de jamón. A jamón croqueta, for
me, is one of the most delicious things in the
world. Honestly. But anyway, what I was going
to say is in recent years, in the times that
I've, because I go to Spain very regularly, there's
been so many times that I ate bad jamón. And
especially like when you go to like a bar and
like you have the hams hanging, you know, and
they're like very Spanish. They have different
types of jamón and often they're very snobby
about it. Some Spanish people are really snobby
about the ham. And they cut it and they give
it to you and they're like, yeah. And you eat
it and you're like, it's basically rancid. It's
oxidized to a point where you're sort of like,
no, that's not it, bro. And it's mega expensive.
It's not cut nicely. But at the same time, you're
kind of telling me this is how it should be because
why? Yeah at the end of the day you know that
there's a lot of uneducated tourists for example
and they eat that and go crazy about it and it
just works and it's like well whatever you know
we sell it like this but I think actually that
in any like crappy supermarket in Spain you can
if you go to the cold cuts section and if you
look for an iberico that will be at least very
good Not good, but very good. If it's a very
good, it's a very good. It's a magic animal,
man. It will taste very nice. It will not taste
bad. Obviously, there's hams where it's cut super
nicely, bland, tempered, or whatever, and you
eat it, and it's incredible, right? But it will
be very nice. For sure. I used to do that. I
used to love that in Spain. Supermarkets in Spain
are good. You go, like in San Sebastian, I used
to go and I used to get like pate de jabali,
like wild boar pate and stuff like that, like
little foie gras pates, just in a fucking supermarket
and not expensive either. Cold cuts, salchichón
ibérico. I love salchichón ibérico. Oh, dude,
the one we had at Echeverry, which is a collaboration
with Joselito, that was over the top, man. Yeah,
I wasn't there. I wasn't there, man, so I wouldn't
know. You went without me. If you had to come
up with a savory dessert or even a sweet dessert
with any part of the Iberico Peak, it could be
a jamón or whatever, what would you do? Easy.
I would make a flan with the ham fat inside of
the caramel. Ah, you nasty motherfucker. I like
that. Once I had something similar. It was a
Portuguese dessert by a very, very famous chef,
Nuno Mendes, in London. He's a Portuguese chef
in London. What was it? He had this like, it's
almost like a flan, but with like more egg yolk.
It's a Portuguese dessert and it was made with
pork fat. And it was very, very nice. And just
like caramel with like pork fat and this like
light flan texture. Jesus Christ, man. I'm a
fucking genius. A jamon fat flan? Are you kidding
me? How good would that be? You know, like it's
probably someone in the Middle Ages already did
it. You know, if you see like this. Yeah, for
sure. Super old Middle Ages recipes. There's
a lot of pastries with pork fat, you know, like
cookies and all this kind of thing. You know,
like those have to be good times, you know, when
caviar was like the cheapest thing you would
find on any corner all over Europe, you know,
like, and cook. Cookies with pork fat. Good times.
That's it for this week's episode of Potluck
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