WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:10.160 You're listening to Heritage Radio Network. Hi 00:00:10.160 --> 00:00:13.259 everyone, welcome to Potluck Food Talks. Today 00:00:13.259 --> 00:00:16.980 I'm with Sachin Obaid. He's an entrepreneur and 00:00:16.980 --> 00:00:21.940 restaurateur. He has an Indian burger concept 00:00:21.940 --> 00:00:25.190 in Berlin, among many other things. He's one 00:00:25.190 --> 00:00:29.890 of the most prolific restaurant visitors I know. 00:00:30.010 --> 00:00:32.890 Every week he's posting content on a different 00:00:32.890 --> 00:00:36.570 restaurant, mainly in Spain and Europe. How are 00:00:36.570 --> 00:00:38.719 you doing, man? Good, buddy. Good to be here. 00:00:39.140 --> 00:00:42.579 Always good hanging out and chatting. Yeah, I 00:00:42.579 --> 00:00:45.920 like to eat. That's for sure. Well, I met Sachin 00:00:45.920 --> 00:00:48.799 on a food tour here in San Sebastian and you 00:00:48.799 --> 00:00:51.520 came with Pear Merlin from Berlin Food Stories. 00:00:51.920 --> 00:00:54.179 I remember that that was a special one. I remember 00:00:54.179 --> 00:00:57.280 we had this Gilda cocktail that does not exist 00:00:57.280 --> 00:00:59.700 anymore. The next time I tried to get it, the 00:00:59.700 --> 00:01:02.159 place closed. But yeah, it was a dirty martini 00:01:02.159 --> 00:01:04.239 with the flavors of a Gilda that were like just 00:01:04.239 --> 00:01:07.129 pure magic. It's sad, but I really like that 00:01:07.129 --> 00:01:08.909 place, actually. I wanted to talk with you about 00:01:08.909 --> 00:01:14.250 food identity. I guess there are some complexities 00:01:14.250 --> 00:01:17.950 about being an Indian in Europe and opening a 00:01:17.950 --> 00:01:22.290 burger place with an Indian twist. What can you 00:01:22.290 --> 00:01:26.209 say about that? How was the idea originated? 00:01:27.090 --> 00:01:29.810 What can you share about that experience? It's 00:01:29.810 --> 00:01:32.329 a good point. Already itself, Indian food is 00:01:32.329 --> 00:01:35.349 quite... Not well known. You know, people see 00:01:35.349 --> 00:01:38.049 Indian food in a very particular lens. And generally 00:01:38.049 --> 00:01:40.790 speaking, tends to be from one particular part 00:01:40.790 --> 00:01:42.450 of India. You know, it tends to be from the north, 00:01:42.469 --> 00:01:45.290 from Punjab. The things that you see, things 00:01:45.290 --> 00:01:48.890 like butter chicken, palak paneer, black dal. 00:01:49.010 --> 00:01:50.010 You know, it's a lot of things that you would 00:01:50.010 --> 00:01:52.310 see typically in a menu. And then obviously mix 00:01:52.310 --> 00:01:54.790 the stuff that come from the UK, which is chicken 00:01:54.790 --> 00:01:57.659 tikka masala. Rogan Josh, which is technically 00:01:57.659 --> 00:02:00.040 it's done really, really well. It's, you know, 00:02:00.040 --> 00:02:02.040 it's not what we get in India, you know, from 00:02:02.040 --> 00:02:04.140 Kashmir, you know, child crazy stuff like that. 00:02:04.159 --> 00:02:05.719 Like, you know, it's all kind of UK influence. 00:02:05.859 --> 00:02:07.579 And I guess it's a mishmash of the two that you 00:02:07.579 --> 00:02:10.639 see in Europe. To be honest, I think because 00:02:10.639 --> 00:02:12.580 of my background, I, you know, if I start from 00:02:12.580 --> 00:02:14.379 the beginning, you know, my parents are from 00:02:14.379 --> 00:02:17.180 India. You know, I'm from India as well. I still 00:02:17.180 --> 00:02:19.280 have my Indian passport, but I. Grown up in different 00:02:19.280 --> 00:02:21.340 places. You know, being from Kerala, which is 00:02:21.340 --> 00:02:23.939 a state my parents are from, the south, and then 00:02:23.939 --> 00:02:26.479 living in Saudi Arabia, where my dad worked in 00:02:26.479 --> 00:02:28.479 oil, and that's the reason I grew up there. And 00:02:28.479 --> 00:02:30.060 I went to high school in the U .S. when I was 00:02:30.060 --> 00:02:33.900 14, up in the northeast in Connecticut. Went 00:02:33.900 --> 00:02:36.240 to college down in Ohio, and then came back up 00:02:36.240 --> 00:02:39.080 in New York and worked for a while there. You 00:02:39.080 --> 00:02:40.400 know, I was there. I was in New York for about 00:02:40.400 --> 00:02:43.560 eight. eight -ish odd years my background back 00:02:43.560 --> 00:02:46.699 then was in finance um like any any good immigrant 00:02:46.699 --> 00:02:48.719 that has to do is to stay in the u .s you know 00:02:48.719 --> 00:02:50.199 you have to kind of take on these jobs that are 00:02:50.199 --> 00:02:53.360 like you know very much like the things uh are 00:02:53.360 --> 00:02:54.719 a little bit more complicated right that you 00:02:54.719 --> 00:02:57.599 can't just get a a marketing job or an advertising 00:02:57.599 --> 00:03:00.120 job or like or being very difficult to actually 00:03:00.120 --> 00:03:02.000 go work at a kitchen right yeah it takes a lot 00:03:02.000 --> 00:03:05.319 of effort honestly the the finance lawyer route 00:03:05.319 --> 00:03:08.580 was easier to actually stay, as weird as it sounds. 00:03:08.740 --> 00:03:10.599 You had to study a certain thing. You kind of 00:03:10.599 --> 00:03:12.520 pass the stuff. It felt like an easier route 00:03:12.520 --> 00:03:14.639 at that point. And to be honest, also, I didn't 00:03:14.639 --> 00:03:17.520 know the other route was possible. Maybe if I 00:03:17.520 --> 00:03:19.759 knew advertising or maybe marketing was a route, 00:03:19.919 --> 00:03:21.460 I would have maybe gone that different direction. 00:03:21.599 --> 00:03:23.800 But then finance was the case. And to be honest, 00:03:23.840 --> 00:03:26.539 I learned a lot during those years. It was very 00:03:26.539 --> 00:03:29.460 business -oriented. There's a lot of ups and 00:03:29.460 --> 00:03:31.659 downs in that environment, being on a trading... 00:03:31.960 --> 00:03:34.180 framework desk you learn a lot about about kind 00:03:34.180 --> 00:03:36.039 of how to interact with people in very stressful 00:03:36.039 --> 00:03:38.039 situations now i don't think it's very far away 00:03:38.039 --> 00:03:39.599 from being in a very much on the line in the 00:03:39.599 --> 00:03:42.099 kitchen to be honest you know um it's just that 00:03:42.099 --> 00:03:43.780 you know you're dealing with you're dealing with 00:03:43.780 --> 00:03:46.039 uh you know saucepans etc other times you're 00:03:46.039 --> 00:03:47.139 dealing with like a bloomberg keyboard right 00:03:47.139 --> 00:03:48.620 the same shit to be honest you know it's like 00:03:48.620 --> 00:03:50.979 it's the same pressure to be honest uh especially 00:03:50.979 --> 00:03:52.460 when you see it in the perspective right well 00:03:52.460 --> 00:03:54.939 wolf of wall street the movie comes to my mind 00:03:54.939 --> 00:03:58.400 when you're saying all of this Yeah, to be honest, 00:03:58.560 --> 00:04:01.120 in a weird way, Wolf of Wall Street, I was in 00:04:01.120 --> 00:04:05.060 the 80s. During my time, obviously like two decades 00:04:05.060 --> 00:04:07.520 later, things did change, but a lot of things 00:04:07.520 --> 00:04:10.919 didn't change. No quaaludes for sure, but there's 00:04:10.919 --> 00:04:15.919 other things that were happening. But basically, 00:04:16.160 --> 00:04:20.129 by my late 20s, I... I was basically kind of 00:04:20.129 --> 00:04:21.670 jaded by the whole thing. I just said, okay, 00:04:21.709 --> 00:04:23.629 I need to do something else. Luckily, my wife 00:04:23.629 --> 00:04:26.269 was finishing her master's in London and it was 00:04:26.269 --> 00:04:27.709 kind of a decision. Okay, do we move from London 00:04:27.709 --> 00:04:29.990 or do I move to London? Does she move to New 00:04:29.990 --> 00:04:31.689 York? And I just said, okay, listen, I've been 00:04:31.689 --> 00:04:33.910 here for 14, 15 years. I think it's time I see 00:04:33.910 --> 00:04:35.930 the world a bit more because it's been a very 00:04:35.930 --> 00:04:37.649 much an American lens. You know, I sound like 00:04:37.649 --> 00:04:39.589 this because I was going to American school growing 00:04:39.589 --> 00:04:43.120 up as well. It was very much in that world, a 00:04:43.120 --> 00:04:45.699 bubble. And I said, okay, let me just take a 00:04:45.699 --> 00:04:47.740 leap. And then that's how I ended up easier in 00:04:47.740 --> 00:04:49.720 London to start with. Spent five years there, 00:04:49.800 --> 00:04:52.160 did some entrepreneur things, did some startup 00:04:52.160 --> 00:04:54.360 work, involved with some XR stuff at Dead Ears 00:04:54.360 --> 00:04:56.839 of Cambridge, which was kind of fun. Google was 00:04:56.839 --> 00:04:58.939 just starting up. So then, again, nothing to 00:04:58.939 --> 00:05:02.420 do with food whatsoever. But I think, to be honest, 00:05:02.660 --> 00:05:06.379 it all changed to me when I went to San Sebastian 00:05:06.379 --> 00:05:08.980 for the first time. It was in 2015. Yeah, really. 00:05:09.139 --> 00:05:12.819 Okay, wow. Yeah. And I went straight in. I think, 00:05:12.899 --> 00:05:14.819 you know, obviously did the Pinterest crawl, 00:05:14.920 --> 00:05:16.540 which is really cool. Did some research, but 00:05:16.540 --> 00:05:19.300 not as research as I am now. But it was kind 00:05:19.300 --> 00:05:21.060 of my starting point, right? I had to look places 00:05:21.060 --> 00:05:22.920 up and where's all the places to go? You know, 00:05:22.939 --> 00:05:24.800 you go to Boilerberry, Atari, all the places 00:05:24.800 --> 00:05:26.079 that, you know, all the places are still there 00:05:26.079 --> 00:05:28.399 today, right? All the famous places are all there 00:05:28.399 --> 00:05:30.860 from back then. Most of them, you know? So I 00:05:30.860 --> 00:05:33.079 went to a lot of places then. Got to eat at Arzak. 00:05:33.449 --> 00:05:35.290 That was interesting, you know, my first kind 00:05:35.290 --> 00:05:37.509 of three -star experience ever, and then understanding 00:05:37.509 --> 00:05:39.470 what the background is. What did it trigger, 00:05:39.649 --> 00:05:41.730 like being in a three -star restaurant and having 00:05:41.730 --> 00:05:44.490 that experience, or even the pincho bar crawling? 00:05:44.750 --> 00:05:47.910 You said that changed something. What was triggered 00:05:47.910 --> 00:05:50.649 inside you in that experience? I mean, to be 00:05:50.649 --> 00:05:52.129 honest, it's just the produce, right? I mean, 00:05:52.129 --> 00:05:54.110 even living in London, London doesn't have amazing 00:05:54.110 --> 00:05:56.350 produce, right? And the U .S. definitely has. 00:05:56.810 --> 00:05:58.430 zero good priorities, even though it's improved, 00:05:58.569 --> 00:06:00.050 right? There's a lot of farmer market stuff that's 00:06:00.050 --> 00:06:01.889 opened up right now, but it's a lot of processed 00:06:01.889 --> 00:06:04.250 food. And it's like things that you get access 00:06:04.250 --> 00:06:06.790 to, it's not the same thing. And I think that 00:06:06.790 --> 00:06:11.370 the idea of being in a place that has access 00:06:11.370 --> 00:06:14.269 to certain ingredients and then utilize the ingredients 00:06:14.269 --> 00:06:17.189 to the best possible way and cook it in a very 00:06:17.189 --> 00:06:19.850 traditional way with a little bit of a modern 00:06:19.850 --> 00:06:22.170 element to it, right? There's cooking techniques 00:06:22.170 --> 00:06:24.170 that you haven't seen before. So that's what 00:06:24.170 --> 00:06:27.120 I found interesting. And especially if you're 00:06:27.120 --> 00:06:31.100 eating hildas in Basque country, there's no place 00:06:31.100 --> 00:06:33.540 like it because obviously every component of 00:06:33.540 --> 00:06:37.100 it is local or it's been preserved locally and 00:06:37.100 --> 00:06:39.519 it's fresh as possible. And I think that's the 00:06:39.519 --> 00:06:43.040 trigger. How do you see that? I think what also 00:06:43.040 --> 00:06:46.279 triggered with me is also going back home. Because 00:06:46.279 --> 00:06:48.879 back home, which is what I started appreciating 00:06:48.879 --> 00:06:50.939 much more after that trip, it's like, wait, we 00:06:50.939 --> 00:06:55.019 do this all back home in India. Everything's 00:06:55.019 --> 00:06:58.240 farm to table. My grandparents lived basically 00:06:58.240 --> 00:07:00.779 on a farm. They had rice paddy fields, they had 00:07:00.779 --> 00:07:03.459 a couple cows, all kind of like the usual chickens 00:07:03.459 --> 00:07:07.329 running around, the fruit trees were there. The 00:07:07.329 --> 00:07:09.089 vegetables are grown seasonally. You know, we 00:07:09.089 --> 00:07:11.149 have the fishermen coming in every day by cycle, 00:07:11.230 --> 00:07:14.149 literally, and dropping things off in my grandmother's 00:07:14.149 --> 00:07:17.329 home. You know, I vividly remember things like, 00:07:17.370 --> 00:07:19.430 you know, crabs we get dropped off and fresh 00:07:19.430 --> 00:07:21.810 crabs, you know, live crabs, I should say rather, 00:07:21.990 --> 00:07:24.350 right? And it's just crawling across the kitchen 00:07:24.350 --> 00:07:27.170 floor. You know, those are interesting memories, 00:07:27.310 --> 00:07:30.149 right? Of course. Yeah, yeah. You know, and then 00:07:30.149 --> 00:07:32.610 back then as well, you know, people used to have 00:07:32.610 --> 00:07:34.250 two kitchens, you know, they used to have the 00:07:34.250 --> 00:07:36.750 wood fire. kind of thing with the coconut palm 00:07:36.750 --> 00:07:38.350 trees. And then they used to have a modern kitchen 00:07:38.350 --> 00:07:40.209 with like a gas stove, right? And people were 00:07:40.209 --> 00:07:42.389 used to cooking things differently based on what 00:07:42.389 --> 00:07:44.250 they were putting on the table. I think that's 00:07:44.250 --> 00:07:45.730 where the connection really happened. You know, 00:07:45.750 --> 00:07:49.329 obviously having that experience in San Sebastian, 00:07:49.569 --> 00:07:52.029 going back, thinking about it, then connecting 00:07:52.029 --> 00:07:53.970 with memories from back home and then trying 00:07:53.970 --> 00:07:56.250 to figure out what that meant, right? And then 00:07:56.250 --> 00:07:58.610 slowly I started traveling a bit more, you know, 00:07:58.610 --> 00:08:00.709 going to different places in Europe from there. 00:08:00.829 --> 00:08:05.319 And then once I moved to Berlin, I started like 00:08:05.319 --> 00:08:08.040 meeting chefs, writing about them, doing a little 00:08:08.040 --> 00:08:10.199 blog. That's where the posting started happening. 00:08:10.639 --> 00:08:12.879 And really kind of understanding what's behind 00:08:12.879 --> 00:08:14.480 the curtains, you know, or behind the kitchen 00:08:14.480 --> 00:08:16.240 door. Because that's always the mystery, right? 00:08:16.279 --> 00:08:18.399 When you're a diner, you don't really know. It's 00:08:18.399 --> 00:08:21.279 a crazy world, yeah. And it's like really interesting 00:08:21.279 --> 00:08:24.829 when, yeah, when you're... walk across the curtains. 00:08:25.069 --> 00:08:28.069 I remember once I was watching The Matrix, the 00:08:28.069 --> 00:08:31.310 second movie, with my friend Adolfo Colmer, who 00:08:31.310 --> 00:08:33.629 is a filmmaker in Berlin, like a well -established 00:08:33.629 --> 00:08:37.669 filmmaker. And he tells me, why do always like 00:08:37.669 --> 00:08:40.470 in these mafia movies, are people like talking 00:08:40.470 --> 00:08:42.269 in the kitchen or walking through the kitchen 00:08:42.269 --> 00:08:44.830 or this kind of things? And I was like, well, 00:08:44.929 --> 00:08:47.730 probably because it's a symbol of a hidden mechanism, 00:08:47.909 --> 00:08:50.809 you know, like, which is what happens in mafias 00:08:50.809 --> 00:08:54.159 or this kind of things. And yeah, like for me, 00:08:54.159 --> 00:08:57.279 that was also a crazy contrast when I first started 00:08:57.279 --> 00:09:00.940 working in kitchens. This contrast of super fine 00:09:00.940 --> 00:09:05.340 dining, elegant, settled, white tablecloth and 00:09:05.340 --> 00:09:07.840 formal service and everything. And in the back 00:09:07.840 --> 00:09:09.860 of the kitchen is a pirate ship, you know? And 00:09:09.860 --> 00:09:14.250 that dichotomy felt crazy for me, you know? Yeah, 00:09:14.269 --> 00:09:17.110 it's a contrast, right? And I think through kind 00:09:17.110 --> 00:09:19.730 of meeting chefs and meeting restaurateurs and 00:09:19.730 --> 00:09:21.830 learning a bit more and spending a bit more time, 00:09:21.990 --> 00:09:24.929 I did a couple of pop -ups first initially because 00:09:24.929 --> 00:09:26.129 I was just interested in like how it worked. 00:09:26.250 --> 00:09:28.210 And then we did a couple of Indian pop -ups because 00:09:28.210 --> 00:09:30.230 I have a creative agency as well. But I think 00:09:30.230 --> 00:09:32.250 this is really where the shift happened, right? 00:09:32.309 --> 00:09:33.789 I think, you know, but I left fine as I said, 00:09:33.830 --> 00:09:35.370 okay, I'm not going back again. I need to do 00:09:35.370 --> 00:09:37.549 something creative. And then creative agency 00:09:37.549 --> 00:09:38.830 is happening, you know, but then we're learning 00:09:38.830 --> 00:09:40.350 like and do branding and marketing. We're like, 00:09:40.370 --> 00:09:43.080 okay, let's create. couple pop -up concepts which 00:09:43.080 --> 00:09:46.539 we did that in berlin um got to meet the gastric 00:09:46.539 --> 00:09:48.059 community through that in berlin berlin's got 00:09:48.059 --> 00:09:49.679 a very very small gastric community very similar 00:09:49.679 --> 00:09:51.539 to san sebastian in that way right people do 00:09:51.539 --> 00:09:53.019 good stuff know each other and then obviously 00:09:53.019 --> 00:09:54.480 support each other and go to each other's places 00:09:54.480 --> 00:09:56.659 so that was very cool also being in berlin you 00:09:56.659 --> 00:10:00.559 know in kind of mid 2000s also very i mean berlin's 00:10:00.559 --> 00:10:02.240 not berlin anymore obviously and i think back 00:10:02.240 --> 00:10:03.639 then also people said berlin's got definitely 00:10:03.639 --> 00:10:05.080 berlin from 10 years ago but that's just the 00:10:05.080 --> 00:10:07.960 evolution of the city right so i lived in berlin 00:10:07.960 --> 00:10:14.720 from 20 to 2015 and it was the same speech back 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:16.860 then people would say no in the 2000s was better 00:10:16.860 --> 00:10:19.519 or in the 90s was better every i heard a lot 00:10:19.519 --> 00:10:21.299 of people saying if i could do anything in my 00:10:21.299 --> 00:10:24.360 ever like if i would have only one wish granted 00:10:24.360 --> 00:10:27.500 i would go back to berlin in 95 to 2005 that 00:10:27.500 --> 00:10:29.779 those were like the golden times you know like 00:10:29.779 --> 00:10:33.059 yeah but then you'll be eating really shit food 00:10:33.059 --> 00:10:38.019 true true true true The donor would be like a 00:10:38.019 --> 00:10:40.240 Euro, but I guess it's plus and minuses, right? 00:10:40.500 --> 00:10:43.559 Yeah, absolutely. No, I also saw the food scene 00:10:43.559 --> 00:10:46.840 evolving. And for example, personas like Pierre 00:10:46.840 --> 00:10:49.259 from Berlin Food Stories. When I left Berlin 00:10:49.259 --> 00:10:52.860 in 2015, he wasn't the thing. He became like 00:10:52.860 --> 00:10:56.200 when I got back like three years later, so four 00:10:56.200 --> 00:10:58.919 years later, or just a few years later, I told 00:10:58.919 --> 00:11:01.320 him that my friends in Berlin were saying, yeah, 00:11:01.360 --> 00:11:04.289 you see this. Places that became more hype, this 00:11:04.289 --> 00:11:07.210 is because of these lousy writers like Berlín. 00:11:08.309 --> 00:11:13.860 And he loved it when I told him that. Yeah, man, 00:11:13.899 --> 00:11:17.440 it's funny because the power he has, he's got 00:11:17.440 --> 00:11:20.720 power to break reservation systems. I've heard 00:11:20.720 --> 00:11:22.720 it from one or two restaurant friends, literally, 00:11:22.879 --> 00:11:24.779 dude, this guy posts, and all of a sudden my 00:11:24.779 --> 00:11:27.480 reservation system crashed. But that's just the 00:11:27.480 --> 00:11:30.039 nature of the new world now, right? Yeah, absolutely. 00:11:30.340 --> 00:11:32.779 Yeah, and he really understood the game and knew 00:11:32.779 --> 00:11:36.600 how to play it. Absolutely. And then, yeah, that 00:11:36.600 --> 00:11:38.620 happened in a couple of pop -ups, learned from 00:11:38.620 --> 00:11:44.409 that. pandemic hit and i said okay i was bored 00:11:44.409 --> 00:11:46.470 at home and then this randomly came up with the 00:11:46.470 --> 00:11:49.190 idea of like okay you know i'm missing home food 00:11:49.190 --> 00:11:51.330 is there something we can do about it uh started 00:11:51.330 --> 00:11:54.590 a an indian food delivery concept uh did all 00:11:54.590 --> 00:11:56.629 our deliveries ourselves uh cooked everything 00:11:56.629 --> 00:12:00.289 fresh you know we had a lot of people interested 00:12:00.289 --> 00:12:01.950 at the beginning a lot of expats at the first 00:12:01.950 --> 00:12:04.330 and then And then obviously Pair posted about 00:12:04.330 --> 00:12:06.110 a few other like influential people post about 00:12:06.110 --> 00:12:09.429 it. And one day Tim Rao came in and ordered, 00:12:09.529 --> 00:12:11.210 which is really cool. You know, having like a, 00:12:11.210 --> 00:12:12.730 you know, probably one of the most famous chefs 00:12:12.730 --> 00:12:15.029 in Germany come and, you know, a two -star chef 00:12:15.029 --> 00:12:17.629 on top of that come in to take away. And he came 00:12:17.629 --> 00:12:20.289 in track pants and like said, hey, you know, 00:12:20.309 --> 00:12:21.669 like my wife loves Indian food. I'm just here 00:12:21.669 --> 00:12:23.970 to pick it up. And then later on I asked him 00:12:23.970 --> 00:12:25.529 how it was and he said it was like a roller coaster. 00:12:25.610 --> 00:12:27.509 I used that as a quotation on the website. I 00:12:27.509 --> 00:12:30.019 think a lot of the... uh newspapers picked it 00:12:30.019 --> 00:12:32.539 up and then that was it i just blew up um you 00:12:32.539 --> 00:12:35.779 know just yeah crazy i love these stories when 00:12:35.779 --> 00:12:38.899 uh yeah like a character or a food critic or 00:12:38.899 --> 00:12:42.000 someone changed the whole thing of a of an establishment 00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:44.799 that's crazy yeah and it was the first time anyone's 00:12:44.799 --> 00:12:46.700 actually tasted real indian food in berlin uh 00:12:46.700 --> 00:12:48.740 that was really interesting for me because we 00:12:48.740 --> 00:12:51.019 want to do it the proper way no no shortcuts 00:12:51.019 --> 00:12:53.720 cook it properly all the prep done very very 00:12:53.720 --> 00:12:56.519 well um everything fresh I try to use seasonal 00:12:56.519 --> 00:12:59.480 ingredients as much as we can, good spices. And 00:12:59.480 --> 00:13:01.179 then people really noticed it. Obviously, you 00:13:01.179 --> 00:13:04.940 know, getting some accolades from the local gastronomy 00:13:04.940 --> 00:13:06.960 community and people like Tim Rao and Per and 00:13:06.960 --> 00:13:11.039 et cetera helped. And yeah, it was a very interesting 00:13:11.039 --> 00:13:13.019 ride because that was my first kind of gastro 00:13:13.019 --> 00:13:14.779 learning experience. No, it's not a restaurant, 00:13:14.860 --> 00:13:17.200 but still you're doing all the kind of logistics 00:13:17.200 --> 00:13:20.320 of kind of cooking, delivering, customer service. 00:13:20.580 --> 00:13:23.299 Everything was online. You know, I spent... like 00:13:23.299 --> 00:13:25.320 a month and a half on Shopify building this thing. 00:13:25.460 --> 00:13:27.940 I had no idea if we could do it. We put all the 00:13:27.940 --> 00:13:30.279 different things together and we created our 00:13:30.279 --> 00:13:31.720 own delivery platform that we did everything 00:13:31.720 --> 00:13:35.659 ourselves. Super cool. Yeah, it was cool. But 00:13:35.659 --> 00:13:37.879 honestly, this could have only existed during 00:13:37.879 --> 00:13:39.759 the pandemic because everyone's at home, right? 00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:43.460 Oh, yeah. There were many delivery concepts that 00:13:43.460 --> 00:13:45.639 existed only while the pandemic and then it had 00:13:45.639 --> 00:13:49.889 no sense anymore. I mean, even like crazy. digital 00:13:49.889 --> 00:13:52.549 experience concepts. There were even like bars 00:13:52.549 --> 00:13:54.789 that would send you the ingredients to build 00:13:54.789 --> 00:13:58.690 your cocktail and to have a video call with the 00:13:58.690 --> 00:14:00.909 bartender and have a talk, hey, how's your day? 00:14:01.970 --> 00:14:05.409 Like having the bar talk experience online, you 00:14:05.409 --> 00:14:08.250 know, like from home. But yeah, that doesn't 00:14:08.250 --> 00:14:09.909 make any sense anymore. Nobody would do that 00:14:09.909 --> 00:14:12.559 nowadays. It was very interesting. And, you know, 00:14:12.580 --> 00:14:14.059 it reached a certain point where, like, at the 00:14:14.059 --> 00:14:16.779 height, you know, we'd drop a menu out on, like, 00:14:16.779 --> 00:14:18.340 a Sunday. I'd do it on a Sunday night because 00:14:18.340 --> 00:14:19.379 I didn't want to get up on Monday morning and 00:14:19.379 --> 00:14:21.480 do it. So I'd say it dropped on Monday. So before 00:14:21.480 --> 00:14:23.279 I go to bed, I'll just drop the menu. And we'd 00:14:23.279 --> 00:14:25.379 change one or two dishes a week, basically. It's 00:14:25.379 --> 00:14:27.940 a small menu. We'd have, like, five, six mains, 00:14:28.019 --> 00:14:30.539 a couple sides, you know, and then dessert. There's 00:14:30.539 --> 00:14:34.200 something. You mentioned good spices. What can 00:14:34.200 --> 00:14:36.120 you say about that? Which spices and where do 00:14:36.120 --> 00:14:38.379 you get them from? Okay, so the thing with good 00:14:38.379 --> 00:14:41.279 spices is that it's... Most of the things that 00:14:41.279 --> 00:14:45.720 you get at a supermarket are not good, unfortunately, 00:14:45.980 --> 00:14:47.860 that we see in Europe, because the problem is 00:14:47.860 --> 00:14:52.120 the supply chain issue. A lot of times when you 00:14:52.120 --> 00:14:54.360 get things sent from India, they usually land 00:14:54.360 --> 00:14:56.279 up in some ports. A lot of the big ports for, 00:14:56.279 --> 00:14:59.200 say, the Netherlands now is the case, especially 00:14:59.200 --> 00:15:01.139 post -Brexit as well, because before it used 00:15:01.139 --> 00:15:04.480 to come from the UK. Now it's like a majority 00:15:04.480 --> 00:15:07.360 of the lands in the Netherlands, maybe in Eastern 00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:10.840 Europe, via Berlin on the northern side, because 00:15:10.840 --> 00:15:14.379 it goes from Berlin to the Scandinavian countries, 00:15:14.559 --> 00:15:16.340 and the east is maybe Prague or something like 00:15:16.340 --> 00:15:20.100 that. There's a few major ports of entry. A lot 00:15:20.100 --> 00:15:22.519 of times the problem is when the spice gets made, 00:15:22.659 --> 00:15:24.120 we're dealing with a lot of commercial suppliers 00:15:24.120 --> 00:15:26.240 as well, so they are sitting in warehouses in 00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:29.279 India. Then they move into containers. Then they're 00:15:29.279 --> 00:15:31.480 sitting in a ship. Then they sit in containers 00:15:31.480 --> 00:15:34.009 again. And does this last, like, for a year, 00:15:34.049 --> 00:15:35.669 the whole process, something like that, or a 00:15:35.669 --> 00:15:37.230 month? I mean, you don't know. Sometimes it could 00:15:37.230 --> 00:15:38.590 take a couple of years because these things don't, 00:15:38.629 --> 00:15:41.330 like, they're not perishable goods, right? They 00:15:41.330 --> 00:15:43.669 can last for years, right? The only problem is 00:15:43.669 --> 00:15:46.009 the potency of the spices will reduce over time, 00:15:46.029 --> 00:15:47.490 obviously, right? Yeah, it doesn't get any better 00:15:47.490 --> 00:15:50.750 after three years. And then the reality is it's 00:15:50.750 --> 00:15:52.509 a very simple check at home, right? If you open 00:15:52.509 --> 00:15:54.909 a bag of spices, if you're not getting that hit 00:15:54.909 --> 00:15:57.389 in your face, you already know it's, like, gone. 00:15:58.370 --> 00:16:00.730 Because, you know, what would take, say, in a 00:16:00.730 --> 00:16:04.639 recipe, three cardamom pods to do, it might take 00:16:04.639 --> 00:16:07.659 you now six or seven, in this case, to do. So 00:16:07.659 --> 00:16:10.980 then you're using more on top of that. So you 00:16:10.980 --> 00:16:13.460 have to really work with suppliers to kind of 00:16:13.460 --> 00:16:15.480 say, okay, when do you get it in? Is it sitting 00:16:15.480 --> 00:16:17.379 in the supply? Do they know the supply chain 00:16:17.379 --> 00:16:19.480 really correctly? And we try our best to get 00:16:19.480 --> 00:16:21.320 the best spices possible. For certain things 00:16:21.320 --> 00:16:22.600 where you don't need too much, we obviously get 00:16:22.600 --> 00:16:25.090 it from India. to make sure that we can get it 00:16:25.090 --> 00:16:26.649 like cardamom pods you don't need too much of 00:16:26.649 --> 00:16:28.370 it right you can do if you have really good cardamom 00:16:28.370 --> 00:16:30.509 like green cardamom for instance you need like 00:16:30.509 --> 00:16:33.789 two pods you know in a recipe no i know sometimes 00:16:33.789 --> 00:16:36.769 there are spices that like you said like the 00:16:36.769 --> 00:16:38.649 whole room smells it's like if you open a bag 00:16:38.649 --> 00:16:42.029 of weed you know like the neighbors will know 00:16:42.029 --> 00:16:47.049 yeah exactly no peppers pepper is a prime example 00:16:47.049 --> 00:16:50.710 you know most people have not never smelled really 00:16:50.710 --> 00:16:54.559 really good fresh pepper When you have it, and 00:16:54.559 --> 00:16:56.620 especially where I'm from, pepper is originally 00:16:56.620 --> 00:16:59.879 from Kerala. You know, it's the black gold from 00:16:59.879 --> 00:17:01.960 back in the day before it got traded into Europe. 00:17:02.679 --> 00:17:05.480 You know, when I go into the markets, my local 00:17:05.480 --> 00:17:07.480 markets, I pick up pepper and smell it and, you 00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:09.779 know, freshly grind it. It's a whole different 00:17:09.779 --> 00:17:12.640 experience. It's crazy. I was in this restaurant, 00:17:12.940 --> 00:17:17.539 The Wakan, in Kuala Lumpur. And they say it's 00:17:17.539 --> 00:17:21.259 like the Noma of Southeast Asia. And Darren, 00:17:21.400 --> 00:17:24.859 the chef, he trained at Noma. And so the experience 00:17:24.859 --> 00:17:28.059 when you walk in, they will walk you through 00:17:28.059 --> 00:17:30.579 the different ingredients and explain to you, 00:17:30.599 --> 00:17:33.410 like, this is a... a rice that only indigenous 00:17:33.410 --> 00:17:36.390 people produce because rice is regulated in Malaysia 00:17:36.390 --> 00:17:38.970 and it's not like everyone can produce it but 00:17:38.970 --> 00:17:42.289 this is a protected area where they can produce 00:17:42.289 --> 00:17:44.490 this specific rice or this and you smell and 00:17:44.490 --> 00:17:46.329 you touch and you understand and it's super interesting 00:17:46.329 --> 00:17:49.130 and something really interesting that every time 00:17:49.130 --> 00:17:52.009 I think about it I think it's so crazy that there 00:17:52.009 --> 00:17:55.089 were no chilies anywhere in the world before 00:17:55.089 --> 00:17:58.609 the discovery of America so there were no chilies 00:17:58.609 --> 00:18:01.759 in Asia or in Africa or anywhere else, which 00:18:01.759 --> 00:18:05.539 is crazy. So there were other spicy spices, other 00:18:05.539 --> 00:18:07.779 peppers and stuff that got displaced because 00:18:07.779 --> 00:18:11.019 chili was just cheaper to produce. And so that's 00:18:11.019 --> 00:18:15.420 how the world works. And we got to try this very 00:18:15.420 --> 00:18:18.019 specific types of peppers. And that was mind 00:18:18.019 --> 00:18:21.359 blowing for me. Yeah, exactly. And in India, 00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:24.099 back in the day, spice was from pepper. And like 00:18:24.099 --> 00:18:26.960 you said, it's more expensive to process, right? 00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:29.950 Because you have to take it, dry it. process 00:18:29.950 --> 00:18:32.309 it you know peppers chili peppers are easy you 00:18:32.309 --> 00:18:34.190 know all you have to take pluck it out put it 00:18:34.190 --> 00:18:36.289 in the front of the sun done that's it you know 00:18:36.289 --> 00:18:38.549 and then it's preserved for for life you know 00:18:38.549 --> 00:18:42.170 almost you know so yeah do you have like uh well 00:18:42.170 --> 00:18:45.549 uh that's that whole concept you're talking about 00:18:45.549 --> 00:18:47.789 is that girly burger or girly burger evolved 00:18:47.789 --> 00:18:51.390 out of that no that was tiffin and um and then 00:18:51.390 --> 00:18:53.890 you know obviously the the craziness prototype 00:18:53.890 --> 00:18:58.390 the the first try attempt First try attempt, 00:18:58.529 --> 00:19:00.990 and obviously very complicated prototyping. But 00:19:00.990 --> 00:19:03.589 then, you know, it worked very well. You know, 00:19:03.609 --> 00:19:05.730 we had some crazy people sending emails saying, 00:19:05.809 --> 00:19:07.829 you know, you changed my life. I mean, it's a 00:19:07.829 --> 00:19:09.369 pandemic. Everyone's very emotional, right? So 00:19:09.369 --> 00:19:12.809 it's like, you know, it's one thing. But when 00:19:12.809 --> 00:19:15.990 the pandemic had ended, we decided to close it 00:19:15.990 --> 00:19:20.210 because it was virtually impossible to maintain 00:19:20.210 --> 00:19:23.069 the quality that we set and the standard we set. 00:19:23.420 --> 00:19:25.859 Because we set a business model in the case, 00:19:25.900 --> 00:19:28.700 imagine having a menu drop on Monday and it sold 00:19:28.700 --> 00:19:31.940 out within a day. And we would deliver a few 00:19:31.940 --> 00:19:36.519 thousand deliveries between, say, Thursday to 00:19:36.519 --> 00:19:40.799 Sunday, basically. We'd have at least 300 to 00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:43.519 500 deliveries a day, basically, across Berlin, 00:19:43.660 --> 00:19:46.819 and have multiple drivers, etc., with the logistics. 00:19:47.619 --> 00:19:54.359 By Sunday evening, our pantry was empty. And 00:19:54.359 --> 00:19:56.960 you were dropping the next menu. And we're dropping 00:19:56.960 --> 00:19:58.720 the next menu, right? And then we would only 00:19:58.720 --> 00:20:02.039 shop based on what we had for orders. Obviously, 00:20:02.059 --> 00:20:04.079 we'd sell out. But still, regardless, we would 00:20:04.079 --> 00:20:07.259 shop exactly. We got the signs down the T, where 00:20:07.259 --> 00:20:09.000 the pantry literally was empty. I took a picture 00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:11.259 once, like a few times, actually, on a Sunday 00:20:11.259 --> 00:20:13.619 evening. When all the deliveries were out, all 00:20:13.619 --> 00:20:14.839 the cooking was, the guys were just cleaning 00:20:14.839 --> 00:20:16.279 up the stuff. And I looked at the pantry. It 00:20:16.279 --> 00:20:18.380 was literally zero, right? And that was amazing. 00:20:18.799 --> 00:20:22.380 So you can imagine the gross profit margins in 00:20:22.380 --> 00:20:25.569 that case, right? So it was a very successful 00:20:25.569 --> 00:20:27.650 business from that perspective. That sounds like 00:20:27.650 --> 00:20:30.430 a very successful planning, for sure. Like, yeah, 00:20:30.490 --> 00:20:32.970 that's something. It's how it should be. Absolutely. 00:20:33.150 --> 00:20:36.670 Cool. But then obviously the pandemic ended and 00:20:36.670 --> 00:20:39.869 we said, okay, fine. We tried different things 00:20:39.869 --> 00:20:41.690 and then we're like, this is not working out. 00:20:41.789 --> 00:20:43.450 And we just didn't want to continue. We could 00:20:43.450 --> 00:20:46.490 have totally made money keeping it alive, selling 00:20:46.490 --> 00:20:49.069 it. We still had the name. People trusted it. 00:20:49.109 --> 00:20:50.670 But then I didn't feel comfortable keeping it 00:20:50.670 --> 00:20:54.269 open because... If we had to do it, we had to 00:20:54.269 --> 00:20:55.849 do it the right way. If we had to do it the right 00:20:55.849 --> 00:20:58.769 way, that means we had to raise prices. Things 00:20:58.769 --> 00:21:01.430 get complicated, especially with Berlin. If you 00:21:01.430 --> 00:21:05.049 start charging 28 euros for a main for delivery, 00:21:05.349 --> 00:21:08.910 it gets difficult. The number of people willing 00:21:08.910 --> 00:21:13.210 to pay for that also gets quite low. Okay. And 00:21:13.210 --> 00:21:18.000 so how was Gulliburger born after that? I call 00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:20.920 myself a third culture kid, which is this terminology 00:21:20.920 --> 00:21:22.480 people have been using quite a bit, where the 00:21:22.480 --> 00:21:25.519 idea of you grow up in a different place, away 00:21:25.519 --> 00:21:27.460 from where your parents are from, but you're 00:21:27.460 --> 00:21:29.160 very much related to your parents' culture, but 00:21:29.160 --> 00:21:32.240 then you bring on a new culture in terms of your 00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:35.500 lifestyle, your food eating habits, etc. I'm 00:21:35.500 --> 00:21:37.180 similar. My parents are German -Spanish. I grew 00:21:37.180 --> 00:21:39.740 up in Venezuela. I would say I'm mostly Venezuelan, 00:21:39.740 --> 00:21:47.849 but also not 100%. So I have this mixture. So 00:21:47.849 --> 00:21:51.069 then, you know, for me, the two biggest portions 00:21:51.069 --> 00:21:54.250 of my life is being Indian, not living in India 00:21:54.250 --> 00:21:55.789 per se, but then obviously having very strong 00:21:55.789 --> 00:21:58.809 Indian roots, and then being living in the U 00:21:58.809 --> 00:22:00.829 .S., right? So I think those two things are very 00:22:00.829 --> 00:22:03.769 strong in terms of my background. Burger and 00:22:03.769 --> 00:22:06.009 Indian. Okay, now I get it. Burger and Indian. 00:22:06.109 --> 00:22:09.400 That's it, right? And I thought, okay, what's 00:22:09.400 --> 00:22:11.839 good ways to kind of look at it? You know, we 00:22:11.839 --> 00:22:13.779 started with a fried chicken sandwich first, 00:22:13.900 --> 00:22:16.759 which we call the Kerala fried chicken. So we 00:22:16.759 --> 00:22:19.640 used, you know, spices from back home. We made 00:22:19.640 --> 00:22:22.420 a curry leaf kind of coleslaw to kind of give 00:22:22.420 --> 00:22:25.220 homage to our curry leaf. And, you know, curry 00:22:25.220 --> 00:22:27.619 leaves are used very typically from my part of 00:22:27.619 --> 00:22:29.339 the world. A lot of the gravies and curries that 00:22:29.339 --> 00:22:32.079 we have, have it in spicing. And even with like 00:22:32.079 --> 00:22:34.240 when we kind of saute and, you know, kind of 00:22:34.240 --> 00:22:37.450 pan fry, you know, like. seafood etc curries 00:22:37.450 --> 00:22:39.410 is very much prominent in everything you know 00:22:39.410 --> 00:22:42.650 my my mom has a plant literally in her in her 00:22:42.650 --> 00:22:44.930 little like mini garden you know right outside 00:22:44.930 --> 00:22:47.109 her kitchen you know uh where she just picks 00:22:47.109 --> 00:22:50.250 it up fresh to go and then and it's it's it's 00:22:50.250 --> 00:22:52.210 in it's in the kind of the recipes that she uses 00:22:52.210 --> 00:22:54.609 so basically we constructed things like that 00:22:54.609 --> 00:22:56.609 so like having the caroline spices but then we 00:22:56.609 --> 00:22:59.490 used american kind of southern american fried 00:22:59.490 --> 00:23:02.210 chicken techniques you know uh using buttermilk 00:23:02.210 --> 00:23:08.599 uh brining uh the panko that's there, and then 00:23:08.599 --> 00:23:10.900 use kind of like the spices to kind of give that 00:23:10.900 --> 00:23:13.740 Indian touch. The condiments obviously have the 00:23:13.740 --> 00:23:15.900 curry leaf into the mayo and the coleslaw, very 00:23:15.900 --> 00:23:19.299 much reticent of what that sandwich would look 00:23:19.299 --> 00:23:21.640 like. If anyone sees it, it'll just look like 00:23:21.640 --> 00:23:23.599 an American fried chicken sandwich. And the moment 00:23:23.599 --> 00:23:24.700 they bite into it, they're like, okay, this is 00:23:24.700 --> 00:23:28.740 very different, right? Okay. And then we did 00:23:28.740 --> 00:23:30.220 that same thing with all our burgers. So we, 00:23:30.220 --> 00:23:31.440 you know, we have something called the Maharaja 00:23:31.440 --> 00:23:34.420 on right now. It's a spice patty. We take chapli 00:23:34.420 --> 00:23:36.240 kabab, which is kind of this rustic spice. That's 00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:38.559 originally from kind of like this on the border 00:23:38.559 --> 00:23:41.279 of Pakistan and Afghanistan, basically. And Peshawar, 00:23:41.299 --> 00:23:43.039 that's where originally that's from. I thought 00:23:43.039 --> 00:23:45.000 it would work really, really well with like a 00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:47.319 beef patty. And we basically said, I'm going 00:23:47.319 --> 00:23:50.640 to spice it, do it like a semi -smashed burger. 00:23:50.799 --> 00:23:52.819 And what we do is, you know, we kind of semi 00:23:52.819 --> 00:23:55.019 -smash it with like one with onions, the other 00:23:55.019 --> 00:23:57.400 patty with like green peppers. We have masala 00:23:57.400 --> 00:24:00.319 ketchup on there, some pickles, dill pickles 00:24:00.319 --> 00:24:01.799 that we have that adds a little bit of freshness 00:24:01.799 --> 00:24:03.880 to it. The sesame bun, because I love sesame 00:24:03.880 --> 00:24:05.819 buns, because it's, you know, double sesame on 00:24:05.819 --> 00:24:08.920 the thing. And American cheese on both sides. 00:24:09.140 --> 00:24:11.579 It's just a tasty burger, you know, with spices, 00:24:11.920 --> 00:24:13.720 nothing, nothing going to blow your face off. 00:24:13.740 --> 00:24:15.319 It's not the heat, it's just the flavor, right? 00:24:15.440 --> 00:24:17.700 And then we have a mushroom burger that we put 00:24:17.700 --> 00:24:19.079 on as well, which is kind of fun. It's a riffed 00:24:19.079 --> 00:24:20.960 on a shake shack, kind of like a shroom stack 00:24:20.960 --> 00:24:24.019 as well. But the difference now is that we actually 00:24:24.019 --> 00:24:26.930 inject some South Indian curry into the, the 00:24:26.930 --> 00:24:30.190 pods with cheese so it's a little bit of a surprise 00:24:30.190 --> 00:24:32.410 when you bite into it so and you know we had 00:24:32.410 --> 00:24:36.549 some tamarind and we had some green chutney in 00:24:36.549 --> 00:24:39.730 it very much tastes Indian when you bite into 00:24:39.730 --> 00:24:42.190 it it's very it's a chef favorite But that's 00:24:42.190 --> 00:24:44.170 the idea. You know, our fries are very much has 00:24:44.170 --> 00:24:45.890 some seasoning that reminds of Indian street 00:24:45.890 --> 00:24:48.369 food. We have onion pakoras on, that's very much 00:24:48.369 --> 00:24:50.170 OG style, you know, having some onion fritters 00:24:50.170 --> 00:24:53.289 on there. And that's the menu right now, you 00:24:53.289 --> 00:24:55.150 know, like keeping it tiny and small, but, you 00:24:55.150 --> 00:24:57.170 know, very much keeping core to the Indian ingredients. 00:24:57.720 --> 00:25:01.119 Super, super cool. I'll definitely visit you 00:25:01.119 --> 00:25:04.519 next time I'm in Berlin. There's a thing that 00:25:04.519 --> 00:25:06.680 I think you exemplify very well, and it's something 00:25:06.680 --> 00:25:09.319 I've talked a lot about in the show. For me, 00:25:09.339 --> 00:25:13.279 be it a restaurateur or a chef or... any kind 00:25:13.279 --> 00:25:15.920 of creative person for that matter, you should 00:25:15.920 --> 00:25:18.559 tell your story because that's what's interesting. 00:25:18.859 --> 00:25:23.740 Like if you somehow put what you are into a dish 00:25:23.740 --> 00:25:27.099 or a piece of writing or of music or a painting 00:25:27.099 --> 00:25:29.359 or whatever, that's going to be interesting. 00:25:29.599 --> 00:25:31.960 Like just two days ago, I was in Sigges, which 00:25:31.960 --> 00:25:35.140 is a coastal village near Barcelona. And there 00:25:35.140 --> 00:25:37.200 was this place just next to the beach that I 00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:39.339 was like, oh my God, Asian American Mediterranean 00:25:39.339 --> 00:25:43.680 fusion sports bar. And I was like, oh my God, 00:25:43.700 --> 00:25:47.099 like, I mean, because you definitely can do that. 00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:51.359 But if you somehow package it differently, it 00:25:51.359 --> 00:25:58.299 will sound way less stupid. And I'm pretty sure 00:25:58.299 --> 00:26:01.240 there is nobody from a third culture there. You 00:26:01.240 --> 00:26:04.779 know, like, I mean, like, and there's no story 00:26:04.779 --> 00:26:06.900 behind that. You know, like, and here it's a 00:26:06.900 --> 00:26:09.839 completely coherent story that makes sense. Or 00:26:09.839 --> 00:26:12.579 it also comes to my mind, this guy from Kai Sushi, 00:26:12.660 --> 00:26:15.660 who is a Chilean making sushi in San Sebastian. 00:26:15.700 --> 00:26:18.519 So he has a maki with the asawa cheese. And every 00:26:18.519 --> 00:26:22.599 time I bring Japanese there, they... go crazy. 00:26:22.660 --> 00:26:24.900 They're like, wow, this is amazing. And this 00:26:24.900 --> 00:26:27.539 is something that Japanese do a lot when they 00:26:27.539 --> 00:26:29.480 travel. They go to Japanese places to see the 00:26:29.480 --> 00:26:33.000 local variations in different cities. And yeah, 00:26:33.019 --> 00:26:36.240 for me, I mean, you explain it perfectly. That 00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:39.160 makes completely sense. Super cool. I want to 00:26:39.160 --> 00:26:42.019 try that. So something else I wanted to talk 00:26:42.019 --> 00:26:43.400 about with you, because I think this is very 00:26:43.400 --> 00:26:45.519 interesting. Like I said, you're one of the persons 00:26:45.519 --> 00:26:48.509 I know that... goes to more more restaurants 00:26:48.509 --> 00:26:51.609 in a year and good restaurants how many times 00:26:51.609 --> 00:26:54.910 have you been to noma for example okay i'm gonna 00:26:54.910 --> 00:26:56.750 be very embarrassed saying this but uh three 00:26:56.750 --> 00:27:01.049 times no i mean like you're not the only person 00:27:01.049 --> 00:27:04.369 i know that has been three times uh yeah whatever 00:27:04.369 --> 00:27:06.410 yeah you had to do the three seasons right but 00:27:06.410 --> 00:27:11.349 i'm done for a while for sure Yeah, I did the 00:27:11.349 --> 00:27:13.789 vegetable season. Amazing. Super, super amazing. 00:27:14.009 --> 00:27:16.170 But not only the food, also, well, we did a whole 00:27:16.170 --> 00:27:19.710 episode on reviewing. Like, just the next day, 00:27:19.750 --> 00:27:22.190 completely hungover, going dish through dish. 00:27:22.269 --> 00:27:23.890 So it was quite an experience. I'm really happy 00:27:23.890 --> 00:27:25.829 I made it because they were doing this marketing 00:27:25.829 --> 00:27:27.849 stunt that they were going to close this year. 00:27:27.890 --> 00:27:31.089 They didn't. But at least I had the chance to 00:27:31.089 --> 00:27:34.289 visit. So I wanted to ask, like, which... Do 00:27:34.289 --> 00:27:37.809 you have any dishes that stand out in your visits 00:27:37.809 --> 00:27:40.509 to restaurants in the last year or two years 00:27:40.509 --> 00:27:42.829 that you would say, wow, this really blew my 00:27:42.829 --> 00:27:45.690 mind? To be honest, I think our experience at 00:27:45.690 --> 00:27:47.630 Echavarri was very, very good. I think that's 00:27:47.630 --> 00:27:50.490 definitely been a big highlight for me. I think 00:27:50.490 --> 00:27:53.049 anytime you go and visit Big Tour and... The 00:27:53.049 --> 00:27:55.210 wine selection to, you know, starting from the 00:27:55.210 --> 00:27:56.490 wine selection when you start, and then you sit 00:27:56.490 --> 00:27:58.349 down and the first courses come out, till the 00:27:58.349 --> 00:28:00.190 chuletón at the end, you know, it's just, it's 00:28:00.190 --> 00:28:02.690 perfect. For example, at Noma, you have dishes 00:28:02.690 --> 00:28:04.829 that are impactful, but you have no reference. 00:28:04.930 --> 00:28:06.849 You know, you're trying and you go like, I never 00:28:06.849 --> 00:28:08.809 had something like this in my life. While at 00:28:08.809 --> 00:28:10.690 Echavarri, you're having a steak and you say, 00:28:10.829 --> 00:28:13.630 this is the best steak I've had ever. And that's, 00:28:13.630 --> 00:28:16.009 you know, like, that's like a big, big thing, 00:28:16.029 --> 00:28:18.779 you know. Yeah, in weird ways, you know, like 00:28:18.779 --> 00:28:22.119 Noma is special because there's no restaurant 00:28:22.119 --> 00:28:24.519 like it in the world. I mean, at least I don't 00:28:24.519 --> 00:28:26.680 know of, you know, I haven't traveled extensively 00:28:26.680 --> 00:28:29.180 in Japan and other places like that. Maybe there's 00:28:29.180 --> 00:28:30.500 other people that are doing some crazy stuff 00:28:30.500 --> 00:28:32.660 that I've not seen. But I think with Noma, just 00:28:32.660 --> 00:28:34.720 it's a sheer scale of the operation, right? When 00:28:34.720 --> 00:28:38.559 you have like this hundred plus chefs, all mission 00:28:38.559 --> 00:28:41.079 driven to do these things, what they do, you 00:28:41.079 --> 00:28:42.759 know, like the amount of effort that goes into 00:28:42.759 --> 00:28:46.509 making each plate is insane, right? like there 00:28:46.509 --> 00:28:48.390 was a last time I was there they had this like 00:28:48.390 --> 00:28:51.710 kind of seafood consomme in like in this kind 00:28:51.710 --> 00:28:55.250 of like this crab shell you know and someone 00:28:55.250 --> 00:28:58.230 had to like take the crab shell apart piece by 00:28:58.230 --> 00:29:01.529 piece glue it back together you know one by one 00:29:01.529 --> 00:29:03.769 and then like put the consomme in you know like 00:29:03.769 --> 00:29:08.539 it's it's a lot of work you know as like a normal 00:29:08.539 --> 00:29:10.579 diner, maybe it might be hard to understand that. 00:29:10.640 --> 00:29:12.200 But then when you understand how much work that 00:29:12.200 --> 00:29:14.559 goes into the prep side of it, you know, constructing 00:29:14.559 --> 00:29:18.140 each thing, the fact that they change the menu 00:29:18.140 --> 00:29:20.319 so often, which is insane, right? Like you go 00:29:20.319 --> 00:29:21.619 to the vegetable season next year, you won't 00:29:21.619 --> 00:29:24.200 see like, you know, 80 % of the stuff, you know, 00:29:24.200 --> 00:29:27.359 it'll be totally different, which is crazy. I 00:29:27.359 --> 00:29:31.480 also felt that this kind of... absurd effort 00:29:31.480 --> 00:29:34.119 they put like puts you on a completely different 00:29:34.119 --> 00:29:36.660 level of appreciation that there's like this 00:29:36.660 --> 00:29:39.599 magic to it like the impact like just a little 00:29:39.599 --> 00:29:42.920 bite has you're like okay well there was somebody 00:29:42.920 --> 00:29:45.980 for example the vegetable dish you know this 00:29:45.980 --> 00:29:48.779 dish with the slices of different vegetables 00:29:48.779 --> 00:29:51.819 they make this competition who makes it faster 00:29:51.819 --> 00:29:55.099 and the faster who did it was 20 minutes one 00:29:55.099 --> 00:29:57.559 chef 20 minutes just on one dish you know that 00:29:57.559 --> 00:30:01.079 it's just crazy it's crazy yeah uh but to be 00:30:01.079 --> 00:30:03.200 honest i think outside the the fine dining places 00:30:03.200 --> 00:30:05.039 i think where i get really excited is when i 00:30:05.039 --> 00:30:08.339 find these like smaller interesting places off 00:30:08.339 --> 00:30:10.539 off to be in track a bit more now because um 00:30:10.539 --> 00:30:13.579 in spain for instance galicia is amazing you 00:30:13.579 --> 00:30:15.240 know like if you if you're traveling there now 00:30:15.240 --> 00:30:17.740 i think there's a lot of restaurants that people 00:30:17.740 --> 00:30:19.880 just don't speak about like like for instance 00:30:19.880 --> 00:30:22.460 like in padron there's a place called opaso uh 00:30:22.460 --> 00:30:26.019 it's like a It's a steakhouse. They have the 00:30:26.019 --> 00:30:28.299 chuletón. They do it exactly like how Echabarri 00:30:28.299 --> 00:30:30.680 does it. They trim the fat. They cook it pretty 00:30:30.680 --> 00:30:32.059 much the exact same way. And I would say it was 00:30:32.059 --> 00:30:34.460 at par, maybe even slightly better. It was kind 00:30:34.460 --> 00:30:36.960 of a bold statement to put out, but it's their 00:30:36.960 --> 00:30:39.759 thing. And they've really perfected it. And they 00:30:39.759 --> 00:30:41.660 have a few dishes on the menu. As a start, no 00:30:41.660 --> 00:30:44.440 one really talks about it. A lot of people outside 00:30:44.440 --> 00:30:47.380 Spain have no idea that place exists. Yeah, of 00:30:47.380 --> 00:30:51.509 course. you know and you know it right like it's 00:30:51.509 --> 00:30:53.529 like there's a lot of chefs in in bass country 00:30:53.529 --> 00:30:54.769 people won't speak about you know if you can 00:30:54.769 --> 00:30:57.769 go slightly outside the the the circle right 00:30:57.769 --> 00:31:00.130 i think i've reached that point in my kind of 00:31:00.130 --> 00:31:02.990 like my eating expedition now where i'm not wasting 00:31:02.990 --> 00:31:05.329 too much time on going to these these star places 00:31:05.329 --> 00:31:07.809 or like you know like maybe it's not spending 00:31:07.809 --> 00:31:09.789 as much time in all the world 50 places you know 00:31:09.789 --> 00:31:11.509 there are some great places in there but then 00:31:11.509 --> 00:31:14.269 some places like okay it's amazing service the 00:31:14.269 --> 00:31:16.730 food's solid but you're not seeing something 00:31:16.730 --> 00:31:19.960 new you know or it's not speaking to you yeah 00:31:19.960 --> 00:31:23.180 absolutely like for me for example like a star 00:31:23.180 --> 00:31:25.619 two stars doesn't say anything because i've been 00:31:25.619 --> 00:31:28.880 to to start places where i was like well what 00:31:28.880 --> 00:31:32.119 or even like listed in the michelin guide there 00:31:32.119 --> 00:31:34.160 are some places here in san sebastian that are 00:31:34.160 --> 00:31:36.640 pink show bars that are i'm thinking about one 00:31:36.640 --> 00:31:39.000 specific that is listed in the mission guide 00:31:39.000 --> 00:31:41.660 and i go there and i'm like for me this is whatever 00:31:41.660 --> 00:31:45.009 you know like i don't see I don't see the magic 00:31:45.009 --> 00:31:47.309 anywhere. While there are others that are not, 00:31:47.410 --> 00:31:49.509 and you feel the magic, you know? And for me, 00:31:49.509 --> 00:31:52.529 that's an important thing. Or even if you go 00:31:52.529 --> 00:31:55.390 to a small place, you know, like on the countryside, 00:31:55.470 --> 00:31:59.450 and there's like an old lady cooking, and there 00:31:59.450 --> 00:32:01.910 is just magic to that, you know? And that's also 00:32:01.910 --> 00:32:04.650 what I'm looking for, absolutely. Yeah, but I 00:32:04.650 --> 00:32:06.130 think that's the progression for any sort of 00:32:06.130 --> 00:32:08.970 thing. You see someone like a Rene and stuff 00:32:08.970 --> 00:32:11.930 like that. No big chef is going out and eating 00:32:11.930 --> 00:32:14.369 at three -star places, you know? You know, unless 00:32:14.369 --> 00:32:16.029 it's their friend or something, one -off situation, 00:32:16.210 --> 00:32:18.130 they'll go and like support. Exactly. They're 00:32:18.130 --> 00:32:20.549 friends and they eat for free. You know, they 00:32:20.549 --> 00:32:24.710 get invited. And then they have the office, you 00:32:24.710 --> 00:32:27.369 know? Yeah, exactly. But yeah, that's the thing. 00:32:27.410 --> 00:32:30.269 I think it's fun. I think food, eating food should 00:32:30.269 --> 00:32:33.789 be about exploration in a way. But at the end 00:32:33.789 --> 00:32:35.069 of the day, the food needs to taste good. That's 00:32:35.069 --> 00:32:36.990 as simple as that, right? Everything else is 00:32:36.990 --> 00:32:39.750 like, you know, it's part of the experience. 00:32:39.950 --> 00:32:42.130 It needs to be fun. You share it with the friends 00:32:42.130 --> 00:32:44.109 and friends and family, you know? That's what 00:32:44.109 --> 00:32:50.990 eating should be about at the end. That's it 00:32:50.990 --> 00:32:53.609 for this week's episode of Potluck Food Talks. 00:32:53.609 --> 00:32:55.990 If you like what we're doing, make sure to subscribe 00:32:55.990 --> 00:32:58.250 to the podcast so you never miss an episode. 00:32:58.609 --> 00:33:00.690 You can also find us on Instagram and TikTok 00:33:00.690 --> 00:33:04.190 as Potluck Food Talks. The show airs every Monday.