You're listening to Heritage Radio Network. Hi
everyone, welcome to Potluck Food Talks. I'm
Eric, I'm here with my man Phil, straight out
of Dubai, Arab Emirates. How are you doing, man?
Salaam alaikum, all good. How are you? I went
to Barcelona for a few days. running away from
the high season here in San Sebastian. And I
had a few super nice experiences. And I think,
yeah, Barcelona is a super interesting city to
eat. And I would say Catalonia as a region, I
think it's also super interesting as well. Yeah,
definitely. Very underrated. Have you explored
Catalonia, Barcelona? Have you traveled around
there? Not so much, right? You've never been
to Barcelona, right? I've never been to Barcelona.
I've always wanted to go. It's like a huge...
I mean, there's so many places in Spain that
I haven't been. And Spain is so fucking diverse,
right? With food and terroir and stuff like that.
It's incredible. I mean, even if you just drive
down from the Basque Country to Rioja, it's a
completely different thing, right? absolutely
yeah so yeah but like no i mean catalan food
and culture is so unique and so special always
wanted to go yeah like i mean like if i had to
define catalan cuisine i would say first thing
that comes to my mind is surf and turf Mar y
Montaña? Yeah. I think the expression Mar y Montaña,
because for example in Latin America you say
Mar y Tierra. But Mar y Montaña, I think that's
a Catalan expression. That's not like a Spanish
expression, as far as I know. I went to Sigges,
which is this coastal town near Barcelona. I
went to this super cool restaurant called Bonestar.
There were like two Catalan dishes that I wanted
to do a check because I hadn't had them in a
long while. You know, I worked for a while in
Barcelona with Neixel, who was one of the first
head chefs at El Bulli, just before Ferran was
head chef at El Bulli. Jean -Louis Neixel was
a French chef leading the same restaurant. And
he opened a restaurant called Neixel in Barcelona,
which was like a... A classic was open for many
decades. At some point, he had two Michelin stars.
I also worked with the Torres brothers. And I
also worked with Santi Santamaria. So, like,
that's, like, a little bit of my Catalan cuisine
background. Yeah. There is a thing. I mentioned
Marimontana. And the first thing that most people
think is maybe, I don't know, like, mixing whatever,
like, pork with seafood or something like that.
Yeah. But what I had is, like, a completely different
approach of the same thing. which was, you know,
cannellonis is like a very Catalan thing, as
weird as it sounds. There's a very strong rice
culture and pasta culture. I don't know why,
but there is this very Italian thing about Catalan
food that you have like this, for example, for
Christmas, is that when schnecke of English?
Snail, yeah. Yeah, like this snail -shaped pasta.
cooked in a broth, and that's it. That's like
a Christmas dish in Catalonia. Very simple, humble
food. But yeah, cannellonis is a big thing. So
cannellonis is something people cook at home,
you find in Catalan restaurants, you find at
high end, you find humble versions. And this
dish I had in this place was a cannellonis filled
with mushrooms with a lobster butter sauce. Super
nice. You know, like... And as surf and surf
as it gets. And the other thing I had is this
suquet, suquet de rape. Very nice. That's like
an, I would say also that's as Catalan as it
gets. You know, like it's this fish stew. I once
saw a documentary with José Andrés where he was
cooking it in the beach of Rosas where Bulli
was. and he cooked it with seawater, which is
something I've never seen before. I've seen that,
yeah. He took the seawater for the stew, and
it was, yeah, this is the way that the sailors
would cook it traditionally, like the fishermen,
I mean. And I was like, okay, that's super interesting.
You know, it's like a very tomatoey stew. It's
a little bit like... Just speaking wrongly, I
would define it as a paella without the rice.
So you have like this strong like stock and instead
you have like potato slices. But I say like a
paella because you have different types of shells,
you know, like clams and mussels. And then you
have like rape, which is monkfish. And yeah,
and this thing all together in a beautiful dish.
That was super, super nice. Crema Catarana, of
course, for dessert. Also some rice, some paellas.
Life is just good. You know, like some cava.
That was it. Spanish cooking in general and Spanish
food in the international scene is so underrated.
It's one of actually the most underrated cuisines
there is, in my opinion. Because although it's
very well, like a lot of things are very famous,
right? Everybody knows paella. Everybody knows
croquetas. The diversity. And also the skill
and the simple complexity that you find in sort
of like Italian cooking. You have that in Spanish
cooking also, you know, this like super particular,
like the Maro Montaña thing, you know, these
like combinations of things. And then the produce,
the very unique landscape, the traditions, the
mix of cultures, the Arabic influence, you know,
like all these sorts of things that create such
a unique cooking style. It's kind of very disappointing.
Like nowadays, people are a little bit more aware
of sort of like, oh, you know, this is South
Italian food. This is North Italian food. Spanish,
nothing like that. It's just sort of like paella
and fucking croquetas and, you know, aioli on
everything. In its essence, it's one of the most
interesting and sort of deep cooking styles.
You know, a lot of people always ask sort of
like, oh, if you had to choose one type of cuisine
to eat for the rest of your life. I've always
said, like, Spanish. For me. Oh, yeah. I agree
with you. Well, I agree with you with everything,
except that I don't think it's underrated anymore.
I think it used to be. I think it has its place,
and it has gotten it, like, for in the last 20
years, I would say so. But I would say, yeah,
like, in general, if you ask, like, which are
the great cuisines of Europe, people will say
French and Italian right away. And Spain was
always third place, if even. I would say that's
not the case anymore, and especially, I would
say that French cuisine became boring. Italian
cuisine will always have an amazing place, but
I don't know. I mean, in any of these countries,
you will find incredible chefs and incredible
traditions, but in general, I mean, if you go
to a normal... on the roadside restaurant in
France is crap. That's just a fact, you know,
like that's very easy to verify on your own if
anybody disagrees, you know. Don't try it. It's
not worth it. Galets. Galets is the name of the
Catalan Christmas dish I was talking about. So
galets are like, you know, this little... tube
-shaped pasta that is like twist and then you
do almost like a meatball mixture right and you
feel the pasta dry with this with this meatball
kind of mixer and then you you cook it and so
that while cooking it creates its own stock because
of the meat and so the pasta is cooked in its
own thing. I find that to be very interesting,
you know, like those, especially Christmas dishes
always say a lot about a culture, you know, like
there's probably a story behind that dish, you
know, like a legend. And I think I happen to
find that very, very beautiful, you know. Absolutely.
Absolutely. I also went to Fischmüller. Do you
know Fischmüller? From hearsay. I know the name.
I've obviously never been. The chef and owner
is a guy called Nino Redruello. He's a super
cool guy. I had the opportunity to chat with
him a couple of times through BCC, like interviews
in different contexts. I have interviewed him.
For example, I interviewed him talking about
he has a restaurant group in Madrid. His flagship
is Fischmüller Madrid. He also has a Fischmüller
Barcelona and a Fischmüller Lisboa and probably
some others. They make schnitzel, don't they?
Yeah, exactly. That's one of his signatures.
Like this Milanese, the Scalope Viennese, like
schnitzel, basically. Up to the point that he
even, both in Barcelona and Madrid, they open
only delivery operation for schnitzels. And in
both, in the fishmiller, that's one of the signatures.
So they will serve it like the schnitzel, an
egg yolk in the middle, and truffles. But it's
like this creative restaurant. You know, Fernando,
our friend that tried to kill us in a forest,
he worked with them for a while in Madrid. The
chef of Apache Sumarra, who is the chef of this
place called Harambure, which is a Basque restaurant
in Madrid. Both of them were partners, and at
some point they separated and they opened their
own restaurants. Fernando apparently went with
Nino to the other one. And Fernando developed
the signature cheesecake that they have, inspired.
by Hilario Orbelites for those ignorant cunts
that think that the Basque cheesecake has no
crust. This is a Basque cheesecake with crust,
runny in the middle, by the way. And so Fernando
developed that dish for them like many years
ago. So I had tried this cheesecake made by Fernando,
but never the actual Fischmuller cheesecake in
Fischmuller. And it was the shit, man. It was
incredible. It was like over the top. Over the
top. Super, super good. I loved it. God damn.
Super, super good. How did it compare to the
one at AMA, for example, which is one of the
best ones that I've had so far? Yeah, completely
different. I would say, well, first of all, it
has crossed because, I mean, the interesting
thing is that both, the one of AMA and the one
of Fiesmuller, both were inspired. by the one
of suberoa i mean the one the one of ama took
things from suberoa and things from la viña and
created its own thing which is the idea people
cheesecake preachers around the world the idea
is to do your own thing like not to try to replicate
something if you can't tell to the listeners
we've had a lot of beef with people who have
no idea what the fuck they're talking about wanting
to tell us what a cheesecake should or shouldn't
be like Which is a ridiculous thing to do in
itself. But only people from London, especially.
Yeah. I don't know. I'm not telling you how to
do your beans for breakfast or whatever you do
over there. It's beans for breakfast, lunch and
dinner every day. No, no, no. I'm just kidding.
I love British food. You know, like the cheesecake
from Suberoa. which I had in Suberoa. I'm really
happy I was able to do that because Suberoa closed
after many decades open, and that was their signature
dessert, and it was a blue cheese cheesecake.
And this has inspired many blue cheese cheesecakes
around the world. So there are blue cheese cheesecake
where you have the blue cheese in your face,
and it's a thing, and there are the ones I really
like is where you have... Just a touch that you
can't even tell what it is. I would say that
was the way the one from Fischmutter had. If
they tell me it was not blue cheese, but something
else, I would believe it. You know, if they tell
me, no, this was goat cheese or whatever. But
it had that aftertaste, that background thing,
that nice, you know, like this nice cheesy flavor.
And yeah, I loved it. Like super, super nice.
So I also had like the dishes I had there. I
loved everything about the restaurant. You know,
a restaurant is nice when you see jars full of
vegetables preserved as you walk in as part of
the decoration. You know, like we had at Margot
or I don't remember this place in Copenhagen
that is also super famous where also all the
decorations are preserved vegetables. In any
case, yeah, you walk in, you have that feeling,
nice. Then I had a lemon fish aguachile. They
used a herb that I had never seen before. That
is a herb that you usually find like in, you
know, like in garden shops. It's called mosaic
leaf. Mosaic leaf. Yeah, I had never had that,
like, in a dish. Super, super good. Then he did,
like, a Thai curry with carrots. Also super nice,
you know, like, these coconut flavors. Okay.
The spiciness level very, very low, you know,
adapted to the Spanish audience. And then mussels
from San Michel, north of Bordeaux. Like these
little mussels, super nice. It reminds me of
a time that you were flirting with the idea of
moving to the French Britain. Oh, yeah. I remember
you telling me about a mussel dish you were brainstorming
back then. It was like, I don't know, like a
mussel potato salad with a hollandaise or something
like that, I remember. I have no idea, but that
sounds like something a genius would come up
with. And then the main course was siva, no,
lubina is sivas? Yes, it is, yes. Yeah, sivas,
so like with a napa cabbage charcoal grilled
with a super nice like kimchi butter sauce on
top of it. So it was like a... how to say like
a deconstructed kimchi so to say uh super nice
as well quite quite mixed infusion you know like
quite uh yeah exactly yeah absolutely like that
was one of those restaurants where you can't
define what it is you can't put a tag on it like
yeah this is modern italian or something you
know like i would say cuisine doctor like this
guy he's i think third generation restaurateur
you know his parents and grandparents were chefs
wow so like and he's just like you know being
himself expressing himself and that's it yeah
the times I interviewed him is because he has
like a really interesting digital infrastructure
for his restaurants like business intelligence
applied for everything you know artificial intelligence
to predict occupations or payrolls or shifts
and everything yeah this was like five years
ago yeah yeah and then also i mean like barcelona
is like new york you know like you can have like
an amazing meal from Pretty much any culture
in Barcelona, you can find it. I think I've,
I had maybe the best Ecuadorian meal I've ever
had. And a very humble mom and pop kind of restaurants.
Apparently it's like a small chain. I think they
have already maybe three or four restaurants
in the city. It's called Ñaño. And I had two
very interesting Ecuadorian dishes that made
me. felt really interested in Ecuadorian food.
One is called encebollado. So it was like, I
would compare it, you know, in the tuna episode,
we talk about the marmitaco, like this tuna stew
that the Basque do. It would be like that, but
without the peppers and paprikas, all that away
and lots of onions. So like a very heavy tuna
stock with pieces of tuna and potatoes and these
kind of things. And the other, I found that to
be even more interesting, it was, dude, it was
like a stew, also a fish, but with plantains
and peanuts. Super nice. That sounds really,
really good. That sounds absolutely delicious,
yeah. I don't think I've ever had Ecuadorian
food, honestly. So I have like two Ecuadorian
friends that are amazing chefs there. One is
Will Mordoñez. and Ronald Morocho. Both of them,
they have restaurants in Cuenca. And every time
I cooked food made by them, it was always super
delicious. And I think it's a cuisine that is
underrepresented. You see a lot of things about
Peruvian, or Brazilian, or Mexican. But Ecuador
is like a little bit on the side, you know? Yeah,
absolutely. It kind of gets forgotten between
those bigger nations a little bit. And yeah,
that was my trip to Barcelona. Nice. Do you have
any experience going to places like Calpep? And
these sort of like bar, sort of like counter
places in Barcelona, I've always really wanted
to go. Like tapas bars. Pretty much. Where you
have to look into the kitchen, right? You've
got like planchas, et cetera, you know. There's
a really famous one called Calpep, which actually
a restaurant, I don't know if you know the restaurant
in London called Barafina. I used to work there
for a little while. And they modeled their whole
like restaurant, like the first restaurant that
they opened, they modeled it after Calpep. where
you have this like long counter you don't have
any tables right you can't sit down you just
sit at the counter you see the chefs cooking
the stuff they literally just put it in front
of you it's super super nice it's like an institution
i know the place i know the place but i haven't
been there but i've walked by and i've heard
things about it but yeah from this guy i i've
been to pinocho bar this is a place uh that i
think it was popularized well at least in my
view by ferran adria You know, because in different
documentaries or episodes or things, he goes
there. This used to be in the Boqueria market,
but it moved to another market, the market of
San Antonio. Super nice place, always super crowded.
But yeah, look, I was actually Googling it shortly
and I find a picture of Ferran Adria greeting
the old man at Pinocho. Yeah, you get here like
simple, you know, like counter tapas, just well
-made, you know. Lately, Ultramarinos Marin has
become like a thing, you know, like everybody
in the chef and foodie world is talking about
that place. Everybody's talking about it, yeah.
It looks so good, honestly. Well, same thing.
Very produce -driven kind of bar. You go there,
you get just incredible seafood, simply cooked,
served right away. It has to be very expensive.
They have no prices on the webpage or anything.
And it has four stars in Google reviews. For
me, that makes me think that... it's overly expensive
you know like and that that makes probably some
people angry the moment the bill arrives for
sure especially in spain you know where the food
good food can be so extremely cheap especially
when you go to a bar it's absolutely incredible
no you eat and you eat and you eat you get the
bill it's like 15 euros with drinks and you're
like what what the fuck happened yeah but i think
that the first time i saw this place was by a
kevin went there that's a friend of his no i
i had no idea about that i think so i think they
know each other ah okay that makes sense yeah
sure but yeah it's definitely on my bucket list
i really want to go everything they do looks
absolutely amazing super fish focused you know
like fish seafood focus and um yeah it looks
super super cool yeah we should plan a trip to
to barcelona man we really should and i mean
like i know like you always say like oh i don't
want to go to this place if you because everybody
goes there but i would definitely would like
to have like this checks of this I never said
anything like that. No, no. I'm talking about
going to places like Disfrutar and... Ah, okay.
I would like to go to those places even though
I know they're they're overly expensive and overly
hyped at the moment you know I think this Frutar
was named number one in the world like last year
or this year again I don't know yeah it's true
they were yeah I'm not updated with those lists
anymore but I know that you know because this
restaurant became like the new bougies you know
like bougie doesn't exist anymore so you have
like these places El Bulli has this impact in
Barcelona, similar to the impact of Noma in Copenhagen,
you know, where you get to see a lot of these
places that were opened by ex -head chefs. You
have Dos Palillos by Albert Raurich. You have
like this place of roasted chicken that was opened
again by Eugeni, something that was also a head
chef at El Bulli. Disfrutar, Enigma. What's the
other one? This Mexican place that used to be
Ojasanta. If it's still open, I'm not sure. But
yeah, like the ex -El Barri group places, you
know, like... All over the cities. It's like
a thing. Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's just obvious,
no? I mean, El Buye affected the whole culinary
world in every corner of the world. Obviously
in their hometown. I mean, hometown, no? Like
close, the biggest city close to them. It's going
to be the biggest impact. Just like without El,
like Noma is a good example, you know? And like
it's, people need to remember that without El
Buye, Noma wouldn't exist. And my favorite place
in Barcelona, I have to say, it's a place called
Teoric Taverna. It's a place I have to be a little
bit jealous or envious. Let me check again the
name of the chef. I know the guy, actually. Oriol
Casals. Yeah. So this guy, why am I jealous?
Because he did what I dreamt about doing while
in Berlin. I wanted to do exactly the same concept,
man. That was like a restaurant. It's not a restaurant,
and it's not a tapas bar, but it's something
in between. It's like a tapas omakase, okay?
So you go to this place, and you have only a
tasting menu, but every dish will be just a tapa.
So you get that, one snack, that's it, next,
next, and next, and you have, like, I think they
offer only, you choose the length of the menu.
So I think there are three lengths. I don't know.
Let's say 9, 12, and 15, something like that,
with different prices. Only the tasting menu.
And he, for me, he really showcases Catalan culture
in a very elegant and fine execution. I had a
lot of fun eating there. I think it's like a...
And also the place is like very centric, very
in the middle of everything. But it's basically
like a... You know, like a cave, like a little
hole in the city where he opened, like, in a
floor. Like, there you have it. A dining room
and kitchen, everything, and just, like, not
a very big space. But, yeah, if I had to recommend
something, that's actually a place I recommend
every time people ask me about places in Barcelona.
That's one I say. Yeah, nice. That sounds amazing.
Let me check my rec list because I have some
other places that I usually recommend in Barcelona
to see if I'm forgetting anything. Bargellida,
man. Yeah. I think if you go to Barcelona, that
should be like, if you want to go like, like
a surviving, the last of the dinosaurs staying,
the last of the Mohicans that is still alive,
that's Bargellida. It's the only old school,
authentic. Real, delicious, cheap, working class
oriented, in the middle of the city kind of place
that still exists. Where you go and you get incredible
food for nothing, for peanuts, for five euros
you eat lunch. But yeah, it's not a secret. So
it's always completely packed, like overly packed.
I'm looking at it now. It looks really good.
It looks just like the sort of place you want
to go. There's like no bullshit, tasty food,
tripe, dishes written on chalkboard, you know,
like just amazing. Barrels hanging on the rooftops
with sweet wine, you know, like things you see
like in many old towns around Spain. Yeah. But
a city that was eaten by gentrification like
Barcelona, you know, that's also something worth
mentioning, you know, like Barcelona has become
like this. theme park you know like barcelona
city hipster central yeah airbnb central avocado
toast brunch specialty coffee where there used
to be a place like bargelida now there's that
you know like you know which is super sad you
know like culture displacement i will define
it you know like all of the places you know that
that were showcased local culture were displaced
by I mean, it's nice having an avocado toast
brunch with a specialty coffee, but it's not
nice that this thing displays the local culture,
you know? No, no, absolutely. It's a really interesting
topic, actually, because it's kind of like, you
know, why does sort of like specialty coffee
places and stuff bring good things, you know?
I was thinking about that the other day. It's
kind of like, man, the quality of coffee that
we're drinking and the quality of coffee that's
like available when I order like a fucking...
like a chemex or like a aeropress or even like
a flat white and i drink the coffee and it's
like single origin it smells like blueberries
it's like the quality of coffee is amazing um
and like you know those things that they're cool
you know but it is such a such a fragile ecosystem
right these places come in and they displace
local culture and that is like a big sort of
like red flag right um if it like enriches everything
cool you know but it like if it starts displacing
things that have been there for a really long
time i think you have to be really careful with
that that's it for this week's episode of potluck
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