You're listening to Heritage Radio Network. Hi,
everyone. Welcome to Potluck Food Talks. My name
is Eric. I'm here with Mohamed Bahamut. And we're
going to talk about, you know what is funny?
You were the first person that once told me,
like, Eric, by the way. People, that's wrong.
You don't say that. I don't know which discussion
we were having, and I say, ah, whatever, you
know, potato, potato. And you are like, Eric,
there is no such thing as potato. It's tomato,
tomato. That's hilarious. So as you can guess,
we're going to talk about potatoes, not potatoes.
I guess this is probably one of the most versatile
ingredients there is, isn't it? Yeah, 100%. I
mean, the potato is fucking king, I think, in
the kitchen. It's such a glorious thing. Look,
there's not many things that are so ugly and
nubbled and dirty that come from the ground that
I have such a warm sentiment towards. Maybe truffles.
But yeah, potato is incredible, no? Yeah, and
I mean, like, we could do, like, a whole episode,
like, the Boba game, you know, like, Boba and
Forrest Gump with the shrimps that would go saying,
like, different stuff that you can do with potatoes.
Can you think of any, like, signature dish right
now of a famous chef or a traditional dish with
potatoes? Oh, of course, 100%. I mean, the Joël
Robuchon potato puree. I mean, iconic, right?
Still to this day, everybody, when they make
potato puree, kind of like, you hear it all the
time, Joël Robuchon this, Joël Robuchon that.
Absolutely, yeah. Yeah. That one, well, the interesting
thing about that one is that it has like 60 %
butter. That's a secret. Yeah, basically. Is
there like an emulsion, a butter emulsion where
you use potatoes as a base for the emulsion,
basically? Yeah, but that's how I make my potato
puree also. Like I remember in an Anthony Bourdain
interview, No Reservations had one episode in
Paris. I think it was the 100th episode. They
had a few episodes in Paris, I think two or three.
But they had one, it was the 100th episode, and
Joël Robuchon was in there. A super cool episode.
I'm having trouble finding it these days, but
I used to watch it a lot. I think I have seen
that episode, to be honest. And in there, you
know, Tony asks him, sort of like, yeah, potato
puree, what's the deal? And he's like, two parts
potato, one part butter, that's it. And I basically,
I make my potato puree the same. I boil potatoes,
I let them steam out. You boil them with the
skin, right, to keep all the flavor in and not
the water out. You peel them, you rice them,
you let them steam out. And then while they're
warm, I start emulsifying in butter until it
almost starts to split. And only then I add a
little bit of hot milk just to keep the emulsion
going. But it's basically just potatoes and butter.
And the milk is just kind of there to keep it
all together. Hot milk, important. Yeah, important.
So what else? Triple, no. Yeah, the triple cooked
chips from Hessen Blumenthal. Have you ever done
those ones? Yeah, of course. I mean, it's standard
now. No, the triple cooked chips. It's almost
standard, especially in the UK. Like you go to
a pub and you'll see triple cooked chips on the
menu. And it's crazy how a technique like that
is taking over because it has the Blumenthal,
you know, three Michelin star chef. And then
it becomes so iconic that everybody does it because
it's just such a good technique. I think that's
such an accomplishment. Do you know when it was
first developed? No, I mean early 2000s. 1992.
Oh, wow. Really? Yeah, man. That's crazy, no?
Because you think of Hessen Blumenthal and you
wouldn't expect for him having such an old, like
back then, developing these crazy methodical
recipes. But yeah, it was one of the first things
he developed. And it became a thing. Yeah, it's
so impressive, you know, because that is real
innovation, I think, in a way. Because, of course,
like Hessen Blumenthal has done so much cool
shit. Like him and Jockey. um together in the
fat duck they've developed so many iconic recipes
for the fine dining world you know but taking
a potato and taking something like a fucking
french fry and changing that process for the
better i think that's even more impressive you
know like if you'd now tomorrow come up with
a new way of making an omelette that's makes
a way better omelette And then all the like bistro
places and stuff start using that recipe. I think
that is really, truly impressive because it's
things that have been around for a really, really
long time. And again, it's something so simple.
There's not real much thing that you can change
or do apart from la geste, apart from your, you
know, how you make it. So also, as far as I know,
so these potatoes are pre -cooked in water, then
they're frozen. to get even more water out. And
after that, they fry them like in a non -super
high temperature. I think it's 130 Celsius, something
like that, which is really low for frying, but
long, prolonged frying. So, and you get that
like this. Golden brown, super extra crispy.
Well, that's something basic. If you want to
get crispiness out of potatoes, you want to cook
them first to get the sugars out that are the
ones that will caramelize. If you apply them
like a direct dry heat, like with fries, which
is basically what he's doing with this process.
It's a super long process for potatoes. Yeah.
Yeah, but you can simplify the process also.
I mean, you could really easily just kind of,
I've done it before in places that are not fancy
at all, right? Where you cut your chips, you
put them in a pot, cold water, right? You bring
the pot to a boil one time, you drain the potatoes
off, you let them steam out. Then you have your
fryer, you pre -fry them at a low temperature,
like 140, 150, until they're kind of like confit
through and sort of like golden, but not brown.
And then like they're cooked through and like
the water is kind of like come out of them. And
then at the very end, you fry them like very
high, like 180, 190, just to crisp them up. And
it works amazing. Crispy outside, fluffy inside.
It's perfect. And of course, Heston's approach
is like full on. Yeah, I mean, being who he is,
I can't expect him doing that. hundreds of trials
and ending up with that specific temperature
and time and type of potato and everything. I'm
sure they did. I'm sure they did, yeah. That
would be something to do, to replicate once.
Like, if we're together, you know, like buying
a potato and replicating the whole process and
trying it. Because I haven't tried, like, I have
a friend who tried it. Like, he would do his
fried potatoes like that, and he told me, yeah,
I'm doing it like the Hess and Blumenthal, step
-by -step, exactly the same procedure. And just
out of, you know, intellectual curiosity, I think
that would be fun to do. You know what? I think
I'm going to do it the next couple of days. I
think I'm going to make some french fry tries
because this is again like one thing. The potato
is such a humble ingredient. The potato is kind
of like the egg. Such a humble ingredient and
it's kind of like you can do but like depending
on what you want to do, it's like there's a million
fucking ways that you can go. And like with a
french fry, you know, french fry can be something
you can literally just like cut potatoes, fry
them until they're golden and eat them. And that's
a french fry. But there's so many things that
you can do that will change the outcome and make
it better and better and better and better. You
know, like it's super common to do french fries
here in Spain, like at home, like a quick lunch.
People would, you know, peel potatoes, cut them
and throw them to a pot with oil. Like you would
see that here at home every once in a while.
And we've talked about this before, like the
approach here, because these potatoes are thrown
directly to the fryer and fried there. So they
get this soggy kind of, which is also a thing,
you know, like it's also an approach and I'm
fine with that, you know, like not everything
has to be, yeah, yeah. This Spanish fries is
their own thing. Yeah, it's its own thing. It's
got its own appeal. You know, if I have like
a plate of albóndigas. You want that? Yeah, with
like a super onion -y sauce, you know? That is
exactly what I want with it, you know? So everything
has its own spot in the world, I think. What
about gratin dauphinois? I love that, man. This
is something that I've not done for a long time.
It's so heavy, no? But like my mom would, there's
something my mom would cook, you know? A potato
gratin. Fucking amazing. Very basic, right? You
just slice them with a mandoline. Don't put them
in water. Put them in a baking tray, a baking
pan. Cream, some nutmeg, salt, pepper. That's
it, right? Anything else? That's it, man. Yeah,
pretty much. It's important to not wash the potatoes
because you want that starch to be there to make
them stick and make like this. potato savory
potato cake situation you know absolutely yeah
and it's like it's so so satisfying when you
get it right you can put cheese on top or whatever
you know um i mean there's a french thing also
called tartiflette okay which is basically like
a gratin you put cheese on top so it's like super
cheesy gratinated and then you have layered potatoes
super super tasty one version of that that is
i think by far one of my very very favorite potato
dishes to make And it's something that I would
make if I have like a dinner party and I want
to do something that's like very visually impressive
is pommes boulanger. You know pommes boulanger?
Boulanger is baker, right? Exactly, yeah. Baker's
potatoes. Yeah, they call it patatas panaderas
here. Yes, of course. It's like these thick slices,
right? It can be, it can be. It kind of depends,
yeah. Often, I mean, pommes boulanger is with
caramelized onions. So often you would like...
So the idea why it's called baker's potatoes
is because you would bake these in the residual
heat of the bread oven. You know, you used to
have big communal ovens. Everybody would bake
bread. Bread gets baked at a high temperature.
And so to not waste the rest of the energy of
the oven, you would bake potatoes in it. And
so you would layer potatoes with a broth and
brown caramelized onions, and you'd bake them.
Very nice. Do you use the juices of whatever
meat you cook? Do you use the bottom of the pan
with all the meat in it? I don't personally.
I think a brown stock is very important. So if
you make it for vegetarians, it's a little bit
difficult. But if you can use a brown chicken
stock or a veal and chicken stock that's brown,
it's very, very good. Because what happens is
that I have a very particular way of doing it.
Do me a favor. You know what? I'm going to send
you a quick image so that you get an idea. Ah,
okay. This looks almost like this apple tarts
where you have like this spiral arrangement of
apple slices, like a fancy apple tart. But it's
actually very easy. You slice it, like you take
big potatoes, you cut them, like you halve them,
and then you slice them at an angle, very like
medium thin. And then you kind of fan them out
and you can like lay them in your butter tray,
whatever you can use, like a copper pan or like
a cast iron pan and a croissant. whatever you
want to present it in, you know? And then you
layer like your caramelized potatoes on it and
you pour the broth on. And as the potatoes cook,
the starch of the potato goes into the broth
and the broth reduces and it becomes like thick
and sticky and the potatoes like soak up the
broth and they become like super meaty. And it's
such a simple thing. But if you make it right,
the end, like the texture of the potatoes, the
flavor of the potatoes and the flavor of this
like broth. that then becomes like a sauce like
a glaze super nice like you have to try it yeah
like i always i think i've said this many many
many episodes ago but one of my most memorable
food memories i remember we like all of my family
left and i was left alone with my dad at home
and i think it was me and my brother and uh well
it was somehow like you know like suddenly oh
home alone we can do you know And I remember
my dad grilled in a cast iron pan some meat at
the grill. So you had like all the juices of
the meat and the onions and all this like, you
know, at the top. And this little yellow in Venezuela,
you would call them Colombian potatoes. I think
in Colombia they're called Creole potatoes that
are yellow like a banana, like super yellow.
For me, I think those are my favorite potatoes
in the world. Those potatoes are incredible.
Also, like in the first restaurant that I worked,
that was a French restaurant in Venezuela, they
would do those potatoes in many different ways,
like just sautéed with butter and Parmesan cheese
and garlic parsley, and that was just amazing.
And just dipping, my mouth is watering right
now. Just dipping those potatoes in those juices
of meat, you know, just the best thing in the
world. You know, you don't need anything else.
It's amazing. It's so good. I love how like ingrained
these memories are in you. You know, you're like
talking about it and your mouth starts watering,
you know. It's crazy how food can have this like
impact on you like for forever. It's kind of
like with music, you know, and I had a similar,
you know, we always talk about sort of like the
impact that food can have on memory and put you
into a certain place. I had like a similar thing
the other day. I was listening to a song that
made me really remember the time when I first
came to Mugaritz. And it is crazy. Like it put
me back into being on the mountain and smelling
the air, you know, the way that Basque air smells
like very particularly. Absolutely. Yeah. That
reminded me of a different song that when I listened
to it, really reminds me of when I first arrived
in Japan. Also very, very particular time, very
particular smell. And I listened, I put that
song on, I was at home, I was wearing headphones
and I put that song on and I could almost taste
the taste of this like warm coffee from the vending
machines. The one that you get in the cans, the
can that comes out and it's hot. And I had that,
immediately had that taste in my mouth. And I
was like, isn't that crazy? Yeah, I've had those
kinds of things as well. Like just the smell
of the air and having a memory of, I don't know,
20 years ago or something like that. I had another
one. Well, do you have any other potato dishes
in mind? Oh, yeah. So what do you think about
potato as a sauce? Have you ever tried that,
potato as a sauce? Well, I remember in Margot,
and for me that was really fucked up. I never
saw something like that. We did a potato gel.
You remember that? Which dish was it for? That
was like a fucked up technique. And also I thought
that was like really like modern and crazy. And
it was done by Hoffman, who was like a more like
a classic kind of chef. But so like the potatoes
would be thrown to the juicer, which I've never
seen before. Which is nuts in itself. It's a
crazy thing to do. And then there were like,
you know, in Germany to do the knödel, you have
this. Powder that avoids oxidation for the potatoes.
Jaco vice. Jaco vice. It's funny because jaco
in Spanish is like a very hard and cheap street
drug that junkies use. And this is like a white
powder and it's called jaco vice. You know, and
it's like jaco white translation. And yeah, you
would throw some jaco white into this potato
juice. Then you would let it rest so the sediments
would separate from the potato water. And then
that water, you would treat it like a gel, like
a normal gel, you know, with agar, letting it
set. And then making like a, it was important
to separate the starches at the bottom. And that's
something I have, like crazy stuff I've never
seen before, you know, like. To be honest, it
was not mind -blowing. That's the thing. That's
kind of what we were talking about earlier. It's
like, man, you do all this shit, and then it's
kind of like, what the fuck? But I have two examples
of potato sauces that I really like, but I'm
going to just quickly refer to a dish at Margaux
also. I remember at Margaux, we had these heirloom
varieties of potatoes. He was experimenting with
different types of potatoes, where these, like,
burgundy ones, these, like, you know, blah, this,
that, blah. And I remember this one dish, and,
you know, like, what should you not do with potatoes?
Let them oxidize. Right, let them oxidize, or
eat them raw. Ah, absolutely. Oh, yeah, no -go.
Yeah, but I would say both things are no -gos.
100%. Like, because they're also, like, a little
bit poisonous. They have this, like, toxin in
them. What's it called in English? Blausäure.
It's quite toxic. It's quite toxic. It's not
good for you. So what we were doing is like we
were cooking potatoes, but like we're basically
just blanching them in like a chicken stock.
And they were still crunchy, like thinly sliced,
very thinly sliced. So you could see all the
color of the potatoes, the blue and the red and
the yellow. And I don't really remember what
dish it was for, but then we had these like basically
half raw potatoes as like a sort of warm salad
garnish. That was pretty much out there. I don't
know whether that was good or not. I cannot say.
I can also remember in Mugaritz, we had these
potatoes that we would turn. Do you call it turn
in English when you do this? Zeppelin shapes
of food. The peels, we would fry them. So it
would be like chips of only potato skins, which
is also interesting. I think, yeah, potato skins
is for sure, like, something interesting to do
stuff with it, you know? Oh, 100%. Yeah, yeah.
You can fry them. You can malt them. Like, there's
lots of things that you can do with potato skins.
It's really nice. There's two potato sauces that
I've seen one time. Well, one of them I made
myself, so it's not a very good thing. But, like,
I used to make this, like, potato espuma. Have
you ever made a potato espuma? Yeah. It's so
easy, but it's so nice. I used to use it as,
like, a sauce for fish. I, like, seasoned it.
So you have like a base of potato and cream.
And then I would emulsify all like really nice
olive oil into it and season it with piment espalette
and lots of like lemon zest. So it was like really
kind of like spicy, olivey, fragrant, and you
make a really light espuma. And then we were
serving it with like a grilled trout. And you
can just like drag your fish through the sauce
and like clings on it. It's very airy and super,
super satisfying. I thought you said olive oil
instead of butter and potatoes is bullshit. No,
look, that is not what I said. I said that Spanish
people claiming that a potato puree made with
only olive oil is better than a classically made
potato puree. It's ludicrous. I think it's different,
you know? It's different as in it's worse. It's
like jazz music and blues music, you know, like
different approaches, you know, different takes
on, you know, music or potatoes. Yeah, but, you
know, like this is the thing with opinions, right?
Like some of them are wrong. So, like, I think
if you make a brand ad or something like that,
amazing. I think if you want, if we're talking
about a potato puree that is meant to be eaten
as a potato puree, in that sense, not just as
like I puree a potato, but like a potato puree
with its raw. You know what I've done? And I
think it's pretty good, to be honest, but this
is very heretic. a little bit of both a little
bit of olive oil and butter oh i can see that
no no i i i can get behind that i can get behind
that yeah for sure but you see this is like a
this is an open -minded approach which is what
i i like and appreciate about you eric um because
you know you're like you just do whatever that
like you know you feel but like i remember the
person that told me about this like olive oil
thing you know and they were very adamant they
were sort of like i only eat potato puree with
olive oil it's kind of like all right i know
that a big part of why you're saying it the way
that you're saying it is just because of like
because you're spanish and just because you want
to make a point you know like um that's very
very clear adding some olive oil because of its
qualities great you know but just being a dick
about it it's like ah of course just because
you know it's like we're in spain we don't eat
butter and it's like yeah yeah i get it i get
it bro Like this smartass I made a big deal about
with the cheesecake. Cheesecake has to be burnt
and it shouldn't be creamy in the middle. And
I was like, you live in fucking London. What
the fuck? Are you the Cheesecake Stasi? Who the
fuck are you to tell anybody what should be what
in cooking? What the fuck are you talking about?
You came here for a weekend. You tried cheesecake
at La Viña and you became a preacher of Basque
cheesecake? Shut the fuck up. Go home. Go to
sleep. Shut the fuck up. Fuck you and your stupid
fucking opinions about cheesecake. Don't ever
fucking come here again. If we see you around
Old Town, you're done. Actually, probably the
same week, I heard a sous -chef in Mugaritz tell
me, there's only one correct way to cook rice.
And that is the way that Kikita Costa cooks it.
And I was like, oh my God. You're such a fucking
idiot right now. But it's almost impressive with
how much conviction you delivered this incredibly
stupid, retarded thing that you've just said.
Like, I almost respect you for that. And this
person, he has Michelin stars now in Spain. He's
got his own restaurant with Michelin stars. I
know who he is. I know who you're talking about.
You know, I remember also like something interesting
with potatoes that I saw. It was a Marco Pierre
White dish. I saw it on one of these videos he
would do for Knorr on YouTube. Yeah. So these
potatoes were like, he would cut them like in
ping pong bowl sizes, you know, like kind of
like quarters, depending on the size of the potato,
peeled, and then to the oven, like at a relatively
slow temperature. I think it was like 140 degrees
or something like that, you know, just, and then
they're cooked with butter, only butter and salt.
And he would say Knorr would make it better,
but I prefer to use whatever, thyme or rosemary
or something and garlic, you know, or some meat
stock, whatever. But yeah, like just until they're
soft, but not letting them get color, just making
them soft and butter and oven. And that is really
delicious and really simple food. That's something
I love. That's really, really nice. Yeah, really,
really nice. I have one more example of a potato
sauce that I thought was amazing when I saw it.
So there was a short time where I was working
in a really amazing restaurant in buttfuck nowhere
in England. I was living in central England in
Lincoln, right? East Midlands. And there's a
restaurant in Lincoln City called the Juice House.
like a very old house. It had an amazing restaurant,
super good cooking, like very British, classic
French cooking, run and owned by a chef called
Gavin. Really exceptional cooking, like so nice.
And he had this very simple cheese tart. So he
would make like puff pastry with like a layer
of caramelized onions and put some like soft
cheese on top and just gratinate it. Very simple,
like a taft fin. And together with that, he had
like a herb salad. And he made a sauce which
he called like a potato dressing. So what he
would do is like he would take like really nice
yellow potatoes and he cooked them in chicken
stock until they were soft. But like just a little
bit of potato in like a good amount of stock.
And then he'd mix that, right? So he'd mix the
potatoes in with like a blender. So it would
kind of like not get like velvety. Elastic, yeah.
Yeah, but not slimy, but like really creamy.
I think there was a little bit of cream and stuff
in there also. And then he emulsified some olive
oil into it and a little bit of truffle oil.
And then he puts like dice of potato that he
like blanched until they were soft into it and
like chives and a little bit like that. And it
was just like warm potato dressing with bits
of potato in it and a little bit of truffle flavor.
And he would just serve that next to this tart
fin. And I was like, that is... At the same time,
super classic, but also really genius. You know,
has really, really stayed in my mind. Do the
French dressing. We would do a Margaux. We talk
about this on the dressing episode, the salad
episode. Yeah, there was a chicken stock. Then
you would cook the potatoes in the chicken stock,
blend the whole thing. So you have like this
creamy thing. And on top of that, lots of grapeseed
oil, Merlot grapeseed oil. That oil was amazing.
That was a killer dressing. Maybe one of the
best dressings I've ever had. You still have
the recipe? No. God damn it. That's it for this
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