WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:07.299 You're listening to Heritage Radio Network. Hi 00:00:07.299 --> 00:00:13.400 everyone, welcome to Potluck Food Talks. I'm 00:00:13.400 --> 00:00:17.920 here with Hattori Hanzo, the tuna fish master. 00:00:18.440 --> 00:00:21.879 Phil Walter, and we're going to talk about, wait 00:00:21.879 --> 00:00:28.399 for it, tuna. Hey. Nice one, how are you doing? 00:00:29.179 --> 00:00:32.179 Good, man. Good, good, good. Summer is great. 00:00:32.740 --> 00:00:36.420 Good old walking around in the city, eating new 00:00:36.420 --> 00:00:38.799 pinchos. And I became a member of a society, 00:00:38.920 --> 00:00:41.600 which is quite an achievement. That's Alpha Basque 00:00:41.600 --> 00:00:44.820 Passport. That's amazing. Congratulations. That's 00:00:44.820 --> 00:00:46.960 not an easy thing to do. It's like a secret society. 00:00:47.600 --> 00:00:50.659 Yeah, like there are always these long wait lists. 00:00:51.780 --> 00:00:54.420 But somehow, you know, I saw the opportunity. 00:00:54.719 --> 00:00:58.149 I was like, who is it? the president of this 00:00:58.149 --> 00:01:00.490 sociedad because a friend became a member so 00:01:00.490 --> 00:01:04.069 I called right away and it lasted like for a 00:01:04.069 --> 00:01:07.069 week and apparently they kicked someone out for 00:01:07.069 --> 00:01:10.370 me to get in and so I started for people who 00:01:10.370 --> 00:01:12.730 don't know a sociedad which is the way it's called 00:01:12.730 --> 00:01:16.750 here in Guipúzcoa in the Biscay area of the Basque 00:01:16.750 --> 00:01:19.879 Country they call it choco like chocolate which 00:01:19.879 --> 00:01:22.159 means like little corner. And it's basically 00:01:22.159 --> 00:01:25.840 a supper club. So people get together there to 00:01:25.840 --> 00:01:29.319 cook, only members. Up until not long ago, it 00:01:29.319 --> 00:01:33.280 was only men in the kitchen. The Sociedad that 00:01:33.280 --> 00:01:35.799 I became a member, they changed that three years 00:01:35.799 --> 00:01:42.980 ago only. That's crazy. But there are still many, 00:01:43.060 --> 00:01:45.219 especially like all over the Basque Country, 00:01:45.280 --> 00:01:48.120 where women are not allowed in the kitchen. But 00:01:48.120 --> 00:01:51.239 it seems like, you know, like it's like a tradition, 00:01:51.340 --> 00:01:55.420 like women are cooked at home in many cases. 00:01:55.439 --> 00:01:58.739 So in a society, they will be just catered. And 00:01:58.739 --> 00:02:02.219 that's the idea behind it. The thing is, nobody 00:02:02.219 --> 00:02:06.079 asked women if they agreed with that. That's 00:02:06.079 --> 00:02:08.819 the thing, yeah. That's the thing, yeah. Hey, 00:02:08.879 --> 00:02:12.139 you know, in a Sociedad, is there a sort of, 00:02:12.139 --> 00:02:14.280 like, dress code? Or can you come however you 00:02:14.280 --> 00:02:16.340 want? Or is it kind of expected to dress up a 00:02:16.340 --> 00:02:18.840 little bit? No, no, no. Okay. This is very important 00:02:18.840 --> 00:02:21.419 because Sociedad, like, you know, they appear 00:02:21.419 --> 00:02:23.599 in an Anthony Bonet and San Sebastian episode 00:02:23.599 --> 00:02:28.909 and in some other things. There is this romanticism 00:02:28.909 --> 00:02:32.889 around them. People feel like these are secret 00:02:32.889 --> 00:02:36.969 societies where people go to debate about the 00:02:36.969 --> 00:02:41.729 origin of parsley. And that's not it. As you 00:02:41.729 --> 00:02:45.199 do. It's like a social club. Actually, the sociedad 00:02:45.199 --> 00:02:47.979 is more important than the gastronomica word, 00:02:48.159 --> 00:02:49.939 you know, because a lot of people go there just 00:02:49.939 --> 00:02:54.259 to have a space to drink for retail costs. You 00:02:54.259 --> 00:02:56.099 know, you buy a beer there, it costs the same 00:02:56.099 --> 00:02:58.300 as a supermarket, but because you're a member, 00:02:58.400 --> 00:03:01.319 you have a table, so you can use it. There is 00:03:01.319 --> 00:03:04.340 even people, so this is how it works. You bring 00:03:04.340 --> 00:03:07.520 your own food, you cook. There are big kitchens 00:03:07.520 --> 00:03:09.580 with big equipments and everything. You can do 00:03:09.580 --> 00:03:12.280 whatever you want. As a member, for example, 00:03:12.280 --> 00:03:15.699 I can bring my friends. I'm responsible of my 00:03:15.699 --> 00:03:18.080 friends. So if they break something or they do 00:03:18.080 --> 00:03:20.400 something wrong, it's my fault. I have to pay 00:03:20.400 --> 00:03:22.500 for it. So as I was saying, you bring your own 00:03:22.500 --> 00:03:25.979 ingredients, you cook there. There is a bar, 00:03:26.099 --> 00:03:27.960 but no bartender. It's kind of like when you're 00:03:27.960 --> 00:03:29.580 at someone's home, you open the fridge and you 00:03:29.580 --> 00:03:32.199 grab whatever. At the end, you pay the drinks. 00:03:32.319 --> 00:03:34.360 Like me, as a member, I have to count everything. 00:03:34.960 --> 00:03:39.219 and charge myself and pay myself. There's a digital 00:03:39.219 --> 00:03:42.400 booking system nowadays, digital POS systems. 00:03:42.740 --> 00:03:46.680 So you pay and that's the best part of the Sociedad 00:03:46.680 --> 00:03:49.300 is that you go home. You don't clean anything. 00:03:49.539 --> 00:03:52.460 Cleaning crew arrives and they take care of everything. 00:03:52.759 --> 00:03:54.780 But the thing is, you don't have to be a good 00:03:54.780 --> 00:03:57.639 chef. You don't even have to cook. There's people 00:03:57.639 --> 00:03:59.639 that go there and they get like whatever, like 00:03:59.639 --> 00:04:02.699 they buy some roasted chicken and they eat it 00:04:02.699 --> 00:04:05.789 at the Sociedad. because probably it's a more 00:04:05.789 --> 00:04:09.689 enjoyable place in their homes. It's private. 00:04:10.210 --> 00:04:12.129 And they don't have to clean, and you can invite 00:04:12.129 --> 00:04:15.050 friends, and you have a large table for 10 people. 00:04:15.150 --> 00:04:19.029 It's easy. I mean, you can go in the middle of 00:04:19.029 --> 00:04:21.629 the day with your laptop to work there. It's 00:04:21.629 --> 00:04:24.990 like your house. The only thing is that if you're 00:04:24.990 --> 00:04:27.870 going to cook, you need to book, and then you 00:04:27.870 --> 00:04:32.069 have to count everything and pay. That's what 00:04:32.069 --> 00:04:36.810 a sociedad is. And I self -imposed myself the 00:04:36.810 --> 00:04:41.889 rule of cooking only 100 % ultra mega Basque 00:04:41.889 --> 00:04:45.910 cuisine. That's my rule. Like, I want to, you 00:04:45.910 --> 00:04:48.790 know, like, there are many super nice Basque 00:04:48.790 --> 00:04:52.069 dishes that I've eaten many times, but I've never 00:04:52.069 --> 00:04:55.980 cooked. So I want to, you know. Like, do the 00:04:55.980 --> 00:04:59.620 whole game, all the levels. Like, up until I'm 00:04:59.620 --> 00:05:02.240 documenting everything properly, up until I have, 00:05:02.319 --> 00:05:06.879 like, 100 Basque recipes. You know, like... Yeah, 00:05:06.980 --> 00:05:11.500 so my first one was marmitaco, which is a tuna 00:05:11.500 --> 00:05:14.680 stew. I asked around. Like, I had some friends, 00:05:14.779 --> 00:05:18.660 and I was like, tell me a Basque dish. And my 00:05:18.660 --> 00:05:21.810 friend Iñaki said... Marmitaco. And I was like, 00:05:21.889 --> 00:05:24.389 okay. So I booked, I invited friends, I organized 00:05:24.389 --> 00:05:27.740 everything. And then I was talking with our friend 00:05:27.740 --> 00:05:30.500 Fernando Palacio, the one who tried to murder 00:05:30.500 --> 00:05:33.259 us in a forest, like a Basque terrorist. And 00:05:33.259 --> 00:05:37.220 he said, I do like a super nice marmitaco. And 00:05:37.220 --> 00:05:39.019 I was like, okay, perfect. So I have someone 00:05:39.019 --> 00:05:41.819 to teach me. So we bought everything. It's a 00:05:41.819 --> 00:05:45.279 super nice stew, man. Like, you know, like you 00:05:45.279 --> 00:05:49.620 cook this base with lots of peppers. You know, 00:05:49.660 --> 00:05:52.360 like this Basque sofritos always have like this 00:05:52.360 --> 00:05:56.819 tender onions and leeks. as well pimiento choricero 00:05:56.819 --> 00:06:00.939 like three jars of it some tomatoes as well so 00:06:00.939 --> 00:06:04.199 you do like this super nice base with fish stock 00:06:04.199 --> 00:06:09.639 so like this strong tomato pepper kind of base 00:06:09.639 --> 00:06:12.540 a little bit of chili as well some bay leaves 00:06:12.540 --> 00:06:15.779 and then you cook bonito in it Albacore tuna 00:06:15.779 --> 00:06:18.759 is the way it can be called in English, even 00:06:18.759 --> 00:06:20.860 though a lot of people know bonito. That's the 00:06:20.860 --> 00:06:23.459 tuna that you find here in the region. It's part 00:06:23.459 --> 00:06:26.279 of the Cantarian Sea. It's usually not like a 00:06:26.279 --> 00:06:29.680 super big fish, like a super big tuna compared 00:06:29.680 --> 00:06:32.560 to other tunas. Like a bonito can be, I don't 00:06:32.560 --> 00:06:35.120 know, as big as a watermelon, sometimes bigger. 00:06:35.360 --> 00:06:37.579 I mean, it could be like half a human body also. 00:06:37.660 --> 00:06:40.069 That would be like a very big one. But yeah, 00:06:40.129 --> 00:06:42.189 it's like a white tuna, and it's the most common 00:06:42.189 --> 00:06:44.290 tuna that you see around here. It's something 00:06:44.290 --> 00:06:47.889 that Basque grandmothers, they jar it, they do 00:06:47.889 --> 00:06:52.410 like this, tuna belly tin preserves that once 00:06:52.410 --> 00:06:54.769 a year, and they give it for the whole family, 00:06:54.949 --> 00:06:56.410 you know, like that. That's like a very common 00:06:56.410 --> 00:06:59.649 thing. And yeah, basically you take the chunks 00:06:59.649 --> 00:07:03.089 of this fish, the way we did it. because in many 00:07:03.089 --> 00:07:06.089 cases traditional recipes overcook fish a lot 00:07:06.089 --> 00:07:10.629 when the sauce was already up to point the fish 00:07:10.629 --> 00:07:14.629 was well pre -salted and then thrown to the sauce 00:07:14.629 --> 00:07:18.470 fire off and just letting it cook with the residual 00:07:18.470 --> 00:07:22.949 heat so so the first like the first plate we 00:07:22.949 --> 00:07:26.790 had it was like a little a little bit rare on 00:07:26.790 --> 00:07:29.110 the inside but i have to say the second place 00:07:29.519 --> 00:07:31.699 was better after it rested like i don't know 00:07:31.699 --> 00:07:34.180 10 15 minutes what it took to eat the first place 00:07:34.180 --> 00:07:37.439 and then i wanted a second one that was a good 00:07:37.439 --> 00:07:41.120 one when it was cooked through yeah but it was 00:07:41.120 --> 00:07:45.920 still it was cooked through but but not not overcooked 00:07:45.920 --> 00:07:48.579 or anything it was like just nice you know uh 00:07:48.579 --> 00:07:51.339 but i don't know probably the the juices of the 00:07:51.339 --> 00:07:53.620 fish mixed with the sauce and it was just better 00:07:53.620 --> 00:07:56.480 the second one so next time i'll do it like i 00:07:56.480 --> 00:07:59.230 let it rest a little bit And yeah, tomorrow is 00:07:59.230 --> 00:08:02.829 my second session and I will do chipirones in 00:08:02.829 --> 00:08:06.629 ink, you know, like squid and black sauce, which 00:08:06.629 --> 00:08:09.730 is like a super traditional dish. And also like 00:08:09.730 --> 00:08:12.069 the process of doing this has been super fun 00:08:12.069 --> 00:08:16.269 because I have even here at home, but also at 00:08:16.269 --> 00:08:19.129 the library, at work, like all of these cookbooks 00:08:19.129 --> 00:08:21.529 about traditional Basque cuisine that, you know, 00:08:21.550 --> 00:08:26.480 you... Once in a while, you have a question and 00:08:26.480 --> 00:08:28.600 you read, how is a marmitaco? You read it and 00:08:28.600 --> 00:08:30.480 that's it. But it's way more fun to actually 00:08:30.480 --> 00:08:34.440 cook all these traditional dishes. That's my 00:08:34.440 --> 00:08:38.039 new hobby on my day off. That's awesome, man. 00:08:39.360 --> 00:08:41.679 Sociedades are so much fun. Marmitaco is an amazing 00:08:41.679 --> 00:08:45.539 dish. How you describe it sounds really good. 00:08:45.639 --> 00:08:49.879 I often ate it. I didn't eat it many times when 00:08:49.879 --> 00:08:52.509 I was there. And I always had it with the fish 00:08:52.509 --> 00:08:55.330 being like very, very overcooked and like kind 00:08:55.330 --> 00:08:57.590 of like dry. And I was like, the sauce is nice, 00:08:57.649 --> 00:09:00.379 but then the fish is like super like. Yeah, we 00:09:00.379 --> 00:09:03.379 had two Basques in our group eating with us, 00:09:03.460 --> 00:09:05.820 and both of them said, this is the best marmitaco 00:09:05.820 --> 00:09:07.740 I've ever had, which is like a nice compliment 00:09:07.740 --> 00:09:11.759 for my first. And so two things, the size of 00:09:11.759 --> 00:09:14.340 the fish is key, and the size of the potatoes. 00:09:14.440 --> 00:09:17.220 Like if you put marmitaco on Google Images, you 00:09:17.220 --> 00:09:19.299 will see these potatoes that are like quartered, 00:09:19.299 --> 00:09:21.879 and you know this style of breaking the potatoes 00:09:21.879 --> 00:09:24.679 that is very much from here, just to release 00:09:24.679 --> 00:09:28.210 the starch. And not larger than, like, something 00:09:28.210 --> 00:09:31.649 that would fit into a spoon. Not like this ping 00:09:31.649 --> 00:09:35.590 pong ball -sized potatoes. That's too big. Yeah, 00:09:35.610 --> 00:09:37.750 I love bonito. Bonito is one of my favorite fish. 00:09:37.909 --> 00:09:39.850 It's, like, so versatile. And a lot of people, 00:09:39.929 --> 00:09:42.049 I feel like they think of tuna. They think, obviously, 00:09:42.110 --> 00:09:44.629 of the, like, big, like, yellowfin or bluefin 00:09:44.629 --> 00:09:48.940 tuna. But bonito, or katsu, as it's called in 00:09:48.940 --> 00:09:51.440 Japanese, is super nice. I mean, that's basically 00:09:51.440 --> 00:09:53.740 what katsu bushi is made out of. The bonito flakes 00:09:53.740 --> 00:09:56.980 that they use in Japanese food for making dashi, 00:09:56.980 --> 00:09:59.639 etc., as a garnish. And also, like, one of my 00:09:59.639 --> 00:10:01.399 favorite things that I ate when I was in Japan, 00:10:01.539 --> 00:10:04.659 they take a fillet of bonito, and they skew it, 00:10:04.779 --> 00:10:08.779 and then in a grill, they build a fire with hay, 00:10:08.940 --> 00:10:12.080 dry hay. So they throw the hay into the charcoal, 00:10:12.179 --> 00:10:14.850 and it flames up. You hold the bonito into the 00:10:14.850 --> 00:10:17.710 flame so it gets charred a little bit. You have 00:10:17.710 --> 00:10:19.750 to be careful because flame touching protein, 00:10:19.929 --> 00:10:22.549 always very, very difficult. And then the hay 00:10:22.549 --> 00:10:24.330 goes out, you kind of blow it out and it's kind 00:10:24.330 --> 00:10:26.129 of smoking, right? So it's like outside, it's 00:10:26.129 --> 00:10:28.950 like smoked, almost like a tataki, right? And 00:10:28.950 --> 00:10:31.610 then often that, you slice it pretty thickly 00:10:31.610 --> 00:10:34.309 as like a sashimi slash tataki sort of thing. 00:10:34.710 --> 00:10:37.610 Very, very thick slices, often brushed with soy 00:10:37.610 --> 00:10:40.809 sauce a little bit or marinated. And then you 00:10:40.809 --> 00:10:42.710 eat it with this like Japanese mustard sauce. 00:10:43.960 --> 00:10:47.460 it's very traditional very very traditional yeah 00:10:47.460 --> 00:10:51.179 you have this like meaty raw smoky fish glazed 00:10:51.179 --> 00:10:53.039 with like intense soy sauce and then just like 00:10:53.039 --> 00:10:55.840 very spicy mustard a little bit of like you know 00:10:55.840 --> 00:10:59.019 just raw spring onions next to it it's amazing 00:10:59.019 --> 00:11:02.019 it's so delicious you know i don't have like 00:11:02.019 --> 00:11:05.299 crazy experience fishing but in the little experience 00:11:05.299 --> 00:11:07.919 that i have fishing i fish probably like 50 bonitos 00:11:08.860 --> 00:11:11.679 Yeah, like in Margarita Island in the Caribbean, 00:11:11.879 --> 00:11:15.679 Venezuela. We would do these day trips where 00:11:15.679 --> 00:11:18.879 you would pay the fishermen to just go with them 00:11:18.879 --> 00:11:23.559 and fish. And the technique was insane. It was 00:11:23.559 --> 00:11:27.600 with the boat moving, not super fast, but you 00:11:27.600 --> 00:11:31.879 know, like motorboats. Not at maximum speed, 00:11:31.940 --> 00:11:35.759 of course. And then with the nylon, you would 00:11:35.759 --> 00:11:38.429 use it with your finger. and whether it would 00:11:38.429 --> 00:11:41.429 speak so at the end your finger would have like 00:11:41.429 --> 00:11:45.490 cuts because of the and of course this caribbean 00:11:45.490 --> 00:11:48.190 pirate fisherman they didn't you know like they 00:11:48.190 --> 00:11:51.269 had like stone fingers so they could just do 00:11:51.269 --> 00:11:53.590 it but i was crying like like a little white 00:11:53.590 --> 00:11:57.129 boy and then under the sun so there was like 00:11:57.129 --> 00:12:00.909 this um gum rings that you would put in your 00:12:00.909 --> 00:12:03.309 finger so so that you could make it easier but 00:12:03.309 --> 00:12:07.539 yeah we would fish like this year and That's 00:12:07.539 --> 00:12:10.440 where I learned that the best fish ever is the 00:12:10.440 --> 00:12:12.940 one you fished yourself. After a fishing day, 00:12:13.159 --> 00:12:15.980 you have this grill. We would grill these bonitos. 00:12:16.360 --> 00:12:19.659 It was just over the top. Just the best of the 00:12:19.659 --> 00:12:23.139 best. Yeah, you can't replicate that. It's an 00:12:23.139 --> 00:12:25.559 incredible experience to be so close to the source 00:12:25.559 --> 00:12:29.600 of food. And it makes you realize product quality 00:12:29.600 --> 00:12:33.779 and freshness, what it actually means. yeah it's 00:12:33.779 --> 00:12:36.500 it's incredible yeah also bonito flakes a super 00:12:36.500 --> 00:12:39.139 cool garnish you know for like takoyaki you know 00:12:39.139 --> 00:12:42.299 these like little umami bombs of you know would 00:12:42.299 --> 00:12:44.740 you say the tuna is the fish with the most umami 00:12:44.740 --> 00:12:48.860 i think so huh oh yeah yeah i went to this place 00:12:48.860 --> 00:12:53.659 and Tsukiji market uh i don't know that that 00:12:53.659 --> 00:12:56.100 is this guy the tuna king you know this guy yeah 00:12:56.100 --> 00:13:00.250 yeah yeah yeah i've seen him And you know, it's 00:13:00.250 --> 00:13:02.570 the kind of place that I wouldn't walk in because 00:13:02.570 --> 00:13:04.289 it was this guy. They're like, yeah, the tuna 00:13:04.289 --> 00:13:06.789 king. And he would appear on television, kind 00:13:06.789 --> 00:13:10.350 of like a Simpsons character, you know? But then 00:13:10.350 --> 00:13:13.549 I heard that that guy, he goes to the tuna auction 00:13:13.549 --> 00:13:17.009 every year. And the first fish that is sold, 00:13:17.090 --> 00:13:19.129 he has to buy it. It doesn't matter how much 00:13:19.129 --> 00:13:21.899 it costs. It will be he, the first buyer every 00:13:21.899 --> 00:13:24.419 year. And that's kind of like his marketing thing. 00:13:24.720 --> 00:13:28.100 This is Sebastián Pincheira, the chef of Kai 00:13:28.100 --> 00:13:30.659 Sushi, told me this. And yeah, he has like many 00:13:30.659 --> 00:13:33.580 restaurants in Japan. So when I walk into this 00:13:33.580 --> 00:13:36.519 place and there were like all of these things 00:13:36.519 --> 00:13:39.100 that said, if you film everything here and you 00:13:39.100 --> 00:13:42.100 upload it to YouTube without permission, we will 00:13:42.100 --> 00:13:46.220 bring it down. So, like, also because of that, 00:13:46.279 --> 00:13:48.440 and I was creating content, I wanted just to 00:13:48.440 --> 00:13:51.039 walk out just because of that, you know? But 00:13:51.039 --> 00:13:55.580 Bernie, my travel companion, she was like, let's 00:13:55.580 --> 00:13:58.740 have it. Let's try it. dude it was like a fucking 00:13:58.740 --> 00:14:01.500 incredible tuna like when people ask me about 00:14:01.500 --> 00:14:03.500 recommendations in japan i tell them yeah go 00:14:03.500 --> 00:14:06.639 to the tuna king you know like it's like uh also 00:14:06.639 --> 00:14:09.799 it's easy to get in it's cheap it's nice uh and 00:14:09.799 --> 00:14:13.039 and the tuna is just incredible yeah but that 00:14:13.039 --> 00:14:16.379 was probably no that was red tuna yeah not not 00:14:16.379 --> 00:14:19.879 bonito or anything yeah and that is like again 00:14:19.879 --> 00:14:22.360 it's like it's such a versatile fish There's 00:14:22.360 --> 00:14:24.779 so many parts. It's a big fucking animal, right? 00:14:24.940 --> 00:14:26.360 I mean, like, how much does a tuna weigh? Like 00:14:26.360 --> 00:14:29.860 a big tuna? 600 kilos. It's massive. It's like 00:14:29.860 --> 00:14:34.460 a fucking cow, right? Yeah. And, like, people 00:14:34.460 --> 00:14:36.379 think of sort of like a fish is fish, you know? 00:14:36.440 --> 00:14:39.320 But, I mean, there's so many parts to the tuna, 00:14:39.340 --> 00:14:42.080 from the head meat to the cheeks to the collar 00:14:42.080 --> 00:14:44.440 and the neck. Then the different parts of the 00:14:44.440 --> 00:14:46.399 fillet, you know? You have the akami, the lean 00:14:46.399 --> 00:14:51.070 tuna. Then you have the medium fat content. which 00:14:51.070 --> 00:14:52.549 I don't remember what it's called in Japanese. 00:14:52.730 --> 00:14:54.409 You have the otoro, which is the belly part, 00:14:54.690 --> 00:14:59.509 right? You have the eye. You have the organs. 00:14:59.789 --> 00:15:02.110 You have the fin part. You know, they're all 00:15:02.110 --> 00:15:05.330 different. And they can get treated differently 00:15:05.330 --> 00:15:08.029 also. There's a really amazing chef in L .A. 00:15:08.070 --> 00:15:10.129 He used to be in London. I used to work for him, 00:15:10.169 --> 00:15:12.889 a Japanese chef called Junya Yamasaki. Amazing 00:15:12.889 --> 00:15:15.970 chef. And he's got an incredible restaurant in 00:15:15.970 --> 00:15:21.960 L .A. now called Yes with three S. And what makes 00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:24.980 this guy special from what he did in London, 00:15:25.039 --> 00:15:27.360 but also what he does in California now, is that 00:15:27.360 --> 00:15:31.700 he cooks, for me, what I feel like is just pure, 00:15:31.700 --> 00:15:34.480 authentic Japanese food without importing shit. 00:15:34.600 --> 00:15:36.980 So he uses local ingredients and approaches them 00:15:36.980 --> 00:15:40.039 full on with a Japanese mentality. He did that 00:15:40.039 --> 00:15:41.919 in England, which was very interesting, with 00:15:41.919 --> 00:15:43.840 all the wild plants in England, and he does that 00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:45.960 now in California. And he's really big on tuna. 00:15:46.350 --> 00:15:49.210 And he does all sorts of stuff. He, like, takes 00:15:49.210 --> 00:15:53.009 the head. He puts it. He has this amazing setup 00:15:53.009 --> 00:15:56.590 with, like, a wood -fired, like, stove. Like, 00:15:56.590 --> 00:15:59.269 very almost like a very fancy Japanese countryside 00:15:59.269 --> 00:16:01.990 home where he, like, cooks the rice over, like, 00:16:02.009 --> 00:16:04.429 wood fire. But also he has this, like, smoker 00:16:04.429 --> 00:16:07.450 setup. So he'll put the whole head into the smoker 00:16:07.450 --> 00:16:09.470 and smoke it for, like, hours and hours and hours. 00:16:09.610 --> 00:16:12.590 And then he pulls the head meat and makes, like, 00:16:12.629 --> 00:16:16.299 pulled tuna, you know, like pulled pork. fucking 00:16:16.299 --> 00:16:18.080 amazing right and then like all the different 00:16:18.080 --> 00:16:20.259 parts you know the lean tuna the fatty tuna this 00:16:20.259 --> 00:16:22.500 that blah the collar then you get you get it 00:16:22.500 --> 00:16:25.480 grilled then the the meat from the ribs you know 00:16:25.480 --> 00:16:27.320 that you scrape off that has like a particular 00:16:27.320 --> 00:16:30.220 texture and so it's like it's really sort of 00:16:30.220 --> 00:16:33.320 like um like nose to tail i think he has a i 00:16:33.320 --> 00:16:36.899 think he called it like lip to tail um cooking 00:16:36.899 --> 00:16:39.580 and i think that's such an amazing approach absolutely 00:16:39.580 --> 00:16:42.700 there are also pieces of the tuna that you you 00:16:42.700 --> 00:16:45.110 could easily fool someone into believing that 00:16:45.110 --> 00:16:48.470 it's cow meat. You know, like I once had like 00:16:48.470 --> 00:16:50.990 a part of the neck that in Spanish is called 00:16:50.990 --> 00:16:56.190 parapatana. And that really was like having meat. 00:16:56.289 --> 00:16:58.889 It was like very meaty, not fishy at all, like 00:16:58.889 --> 00:17:01.289 a red meat. And it was like, wow, like this is 00:17:01.289 --> 00:17:04.309 really incredible. And I also saw like this bar 00:17:04.309 --> 00:17:08.049 in Japan as well, where they would serve like 00:17:08.049 --> 00:17:11.950 the ribs, you know. And you take the meat out 00:17:11.950 --> 00:17:15.710 with a spoon. That's so cool. Yeah, there's this 00:17:15.710 --> 00:17:18.809 old principle that my grand -grandmother would 00:17:18.809 --> 00:17:22.950 say that my father would tell me that best meat 00:17:22.950 --> 00:17:28.130 is the one that is closest to the bone. For example, 00:17:28.150 --> 00:17:30.650 if you get a chuleta here, the best meat, when 00:17:30.650 --> 00:17:33.950 you get the bone and you eat with your bare hands 00:17:33.950 --> 00:17:36.569 the rib. And I remember the first time I saw 00:17:36.569 --> 00:17:41.119 somebody working with tuna ribs was... masaharu 00:17:41.119 --> 00:17:45.299 morimoto iron chef japan uh and one of the shows 00:17:45.299 --> 00:17:50.759 he was he was serving ribs uh and yeah just now 00:17:50.759 --> 00:17:53.299 talking about this and remembering it i googled 00:17:53.299 --> 00:17:56.059 morimoto ribs and there are like this incredible 00:17:56.059 --> 00:18:00.460 pictures of hoisin chili sticky spare ribs of 00:18:00.460 --> 00:18:04.119 tuna that really look like like meat you know 00:18:04.119 --> 00:18:08.559 like but they're tuna ribs oh yeah it looks amazing 00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:12.390 i just looked it up oh that looks good jesus 00:18:12.390 --> 00:18:18.109 that looks amazing such a cool idea right yeah 00:18:18.109 --> 00:18:24.210 very nice and then the other thing is the the 00:18:24.210 --> 00:18:27.049 belly like from the bonito like you know like 00:18:27.049 --> 00:18:29.410 have you seen the belly like like when it's attached 00:18:29.410 --> 00:18:33.250 to the fish that is like uh yeah the the under 00:18:33.250 --> 00:18:36.970 part But, yeah, bonito also has, like, or tunas 00:18:36.970 --> 00:18:39.970 have, like, this kind of, like, hard skin, right? 00:18:40.789 --> 00:18:43.769 And here, the normal way to cook this would be, 00:18:43.769 --> 00:18:45.990 like, with the cages. You know, you put it in 00:18:45.990 --> 00:18:49.910 a cage to flip it on the grill and grill. And 00:18:49.910 --> 00:18:52.369 that's it, man. And it's just the best thing 00:18:52.369 --> 00:18:54.769 in the world. It's incredible. It's like a fatty 00:18:54.769 --> 00:18:57.049 steak. It's like wagyu, you know? I mean, tuna 00:18:57.049 --> 00:19:01.750 have a really fascinating anatomy, you know, 00:19:01.769 --> 00:19:03.970 with the way that they... they're not like other 00:19:03.970 --> 00:19:06.309 fish where they're kind of like a separate thing 00:19:06.309 --> 00:19:08.309 where they separate into four fillets basically 00:19:08.309 --> 00:19:12.049 you know but they're still a round fish um and 00:19:12.049 --> 00:19:14.930 yeah the the the belly meat is absolutely incredible 00:19:14.930 --> 00:19:17.089 also obviously like often used for sushi and 00:19:17.089 --> 00:19:19.829 sashimi and stuff like that but it's so close 00:19:19.829 --> 00:19:22.069 to like a fatty wagyu steak and it's really i 00:19:22.069 --> 00:19:24.539 really like treating things like this It's like 00:19:24.539 --> 00:19:27.079 a decontextualization. This is a word that I 00:19:27.079 --> 00:19:28.880 learned in the Basque Culinary Center, you know, 00:19:28.940 --> 00:19:32.079 decontextualization. But it actually makes a 00:19:32.079 --> 00:19:34.759 lot of sense. I was working the last couple of 00:19:34.759 --> 00:19:38.759 weeks on a dish. I work primarily in a Japanese 00:19:38.759 --> 00:19:41.819 -inspired restaurant. I learned that word from 00:19:41.819 --> 00:19:44.220 Albuji, actually, but yeah. Oh, yeah? Very good. 00:19:46.160 --> 00:19:49.039 So, you know steak au poivre, right? Yes, of 00:19:49.039 --> 00:19:51.660 course. It used to be my favorite dish as a kid. 00:19:52.119 --> 00:19:53.980 it's one of my favorite dishes still i think 00:19:53.980 --> 00:19:56.779 well done you know like a nicely cooked steak 00:19:56.779 --> 00:19:59.000 a nice sauce and then fries next to it to mop 00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:01.440 up the sauce so i want i wanted to make this 00:20:01.440 --> 00:20:04.589 but with tuna tuna grilled tuna But like Japanese. 00:20:05.390 --> 00:20:08.990 I think that has been done before. I'm pretty 00:20:08.990 --> 00:20:11.410 sure I've seen that before. Probably, yeah. I 00:20:11.410 --> 00:20:15.009 made this like au poivre sauce with like beef 00:20:15.009 --> 00:20:18.009 jus, but also with like reduced soy and ponzu. 00:20:18.309 --> 00:20:21.650 And then instead of just using like normal pepper, 00:20:21.809 --> 00:20:23.650 I used sancho pepper and szechuan pepper in it. 00:20:24.269 --> 00:20:27.269 So you have this like green yuzu kosho, like 00:20:27.269 --> 00:20:31.099 fermented yuzu chili paste. And it's like so 00:20:31.099 --> 00:20:34.299 bright and creamy and tangy and stuff. And then 00:20:34.299 --> 00:20:36.700 you have this like medium rare tuna just grilled, 00:20:36.759 --> 00:20:39.019 you know, but like inside is still rare. And 00:20:39.019 --> 00:20:41.039 then I made this like matchstick fries, just 00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:43.940 like crispy potatoes seasoned with like a roasted 00:20:43.940 --> 00:20:46.960 nori salt with like vinegar powder and stuff. 00:20:47.220 --> 00:20:50.660 And oh my God, it's just so nice. That sounds 00:20:50.660 --> 00:20:53.200 incredible. I also have to say like normal black 00:20:53.200 --> 00:20:56.099 pepper and tuna are great friends. Oh, absolutely. 00:20:57.039 --> 00:20:59.319 Like pepper -crusted tuna. That's like a classic 00:20:59.319 --> 00:21:03.339 thing, no? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And something 00:21:03.339 --> 00:21:06.700 I knew about recently is that tuna is one of 00:21:06.700 --> 00:21:09.119 the very few fishes that is warm -blooded, not 00:21:09.119 --> 00:21:12.160 cold -blooded. And that is also probably something 00:21:12.160 --> 00:21:16.339 that makes a difference in the meat and the texture 00:21:16.339 --> 00:21:20.220 and some things. Obviously, Japan is very natural 00:21:20.220 --> 00:21:22.039 for us to think of Japan when we think of tuna. 00:21:22.750 --> 00:21:26.450 um but you know what i think is a really underrated 00:21:26.450 --> 00:21:28.710 dish is a dish that you know there's these sorts 00:21:28.710 --> 00:21:30.990 of dishes that you see everywhere everybody knows 00:21:30.990 --> 00:21:35.569 them but very very very rarely do you see it 00:21:35.569 --> 00:21:37.869 done well and one dish for me that i'm a little 00:21:37.869 --> 00:21:39.650 bit obsessed with right now is vitello tornado 00:21:39.650 --> 00:21:44.450 oh yeah oh yes that's amazing it's such a good 00:21:44.450 --> 00:21:46.970 dish and it's like you know like the other day 00:21:46.970 --> 00:21:49.900 we were talking about vitello tornado And I think 00:21:49.900 --> 00:21:51.900 it's super nice. If you have the veal, it's nicely 00:21:51.900 --> 00:21:54.480 roasted. You make a nice sauce. I visited my 00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:58.880 friend Akash in Paris not too long ago. And they, 00:21:59.019 --> 00:22:02.339 in the restaurant that he works, they make a 00:22:02.339 --> 00:22:05.000 vitello tonnato where they make the tonnato sauce 00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:08.400 lightly aerated in an espuma. And it just makes 00:22:08.400 --> 00:22:10.619 it much lighter, not like a real espuma, just 00:22:10.619 --> 00:22:13.000 a little bit, just a little bit fluffy. And it 00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:15.349 makes it like so light and nice to eat. But then 00:22:15.349 --> 00:22:16.829 a friend of mine told me about this restaurant 00:22:16.829 --> 00:22:18.589 in Japan, and they do vitello tonnato, but the 00:22:18.589 --> 00:22:21.930 other way around. So they do like a poached tuna 00:22:21.930 --> 00:22:25.049 belly. Ah, that's genius, man. And then they 00:22:25.049 --> 00:22:27.049 make a sauce out of the veal, out of the roasted 00:22:27.049 --> 00:22:31.069 veal. And I was like, man, that's so crazy. That's 00:22:31.069 --> 00:22:35.609 so good. That is so much better. Why is everybody 00:22:35.609 --> 00:22:38.609 doing it the other way around, you know? Yeah, 00:22:38.630 --> 00:22:40.130 but that's the thing. It's like everybody gets 00:22:40.130 --> 00:22:42.789 stuck with these things that we perceive as traditional, 00:22:42.970 --> 00:22:45.859 you know? That's such a genius idea because I 00:22:45.859 --> 00:22:49.480 can imagine like a tuna carpaccio with a heavy 00:22:49.480 --> 00:22:55.420 meat jus, you know? It just works, you know? 00:22:55.500 --> 00:22:58.619 Like I can taste it already in my mouth. Yeah, 00:22:58.720 --> 00:23:00.779 if you have like a nicely made mayonnaise and 00:23:00.779 --> 00:23:03.660 then you fold like a veal jus underneath, you 00:23:03.660 --> 00:23:06.339 know? Fuck, you know? There must be a name for 00:23:06.339 --> 00:23:09.130 that. There must be a name for that, right? Mayo 00:23:09.130 --> 00:23:11.670 with meat jus, for sure. Yeah, for sure. It's 00:23:11.670 --> 00:23:16.710 kind of like a sauce feuillotte. It's like a 00:23:16.710 --> 00:23:20.930 hollandaise that you then fold jus into. That's 00:23:20.930 --> 00:23:24.309 very, very nice also, but something along those 00:23:24.309 --> 00:23:26.589 lines. And I remember in that episode with Masaharu 00:23:26.589 --> 00:23:29.769 Morimoto, he would also do like the fucking bone 00:23:29.769 --> 00:23:32.670 marrow of the tuna. He would serve that. Oh, 00:23:32.670 --> 00:23:35.589 yeah. When you crack the compartments open, you 00:23:35.589 --> 00:23:38.700 have this almost like... um teardrop sort of 00:23:38.700 --> 00:23:40.980 like jelly no i've never tried that i've never 00:23:40.980 --> 00:23:43.759 eaten it have you yeah no no no but that was 00:23:43.759 --> 00:23:46.119 also very interesting and yeah you also have 00:23:46.119 --> 00:23:49.299 the cheeks you know what i've never seen and 00:23:49.299 --> 00:23:52.759 a tuna has to have one because as far as i know 00:23:52.759 --> 00:23:56.880 every fish has one a cococha ah the cococha yeah 00:23:56.880 --> 00:24:03.279 um yeah a cococha i mean every fish has one right 00:24:03.279 --> 00:24:07.099 as far as i know part of the part of the jowl 00:24:07.099 --> 00:24:09.259 i guess now the jowl is always like a very nice 00:24:09.259 --> 00:24:11.079 part of the fish also also something i would 00:24:11.079 --> 00:24:13.740 think about like in venezuela tuna is ultra common 00:24:14.190 --> 00:24:16.089 But it's canned tuna. You know, it's something 00:24:16.089 --> 00:24:20.490 that you get in sandwiches to bring to school, 00:24:20.630 --> 00:24:24.450 you know, or tuna salads you cook at home. Or 00:24:24.450 --> 00:24:27.549 even when there were like these programs where 00:24:27.549 --> 00:24:32.329 they would give government -funded food to whoever 00:24:32.329 --> 00:24:35.430 it needed, it was tuna. It was like super crappy 00:24:35.430 --> 00:24:39.910 tuna, but it was tuna. So I grew up first with 00:24:39.910 --> 00:24:43.369 this idea of canned tuna as a thing. You don't 00:24:43.369 --> 00:24:46.329 even think about where it comes from. You think 00:24:46.329 --> 00:24:50.670 it grows in a can as a little city boy. And then 00:24:50.670 --> 00:24:54.069 you grow up and you see, oh, that thing that 00:24:54.069 --> 00:24:58.849 is on the sushi, that super nice red fish, is 00:24:58.849 --> 00:25:00.930 the same thing that is in the can. It's like, 00:25:01.069 --> 00:25:06.329 okay. Why do they fuck it up like that? Yeah, 00:25:06.349 --> 00:25:08.809 yeah. I always wondered that. There wasn't a 00:25:08.809 --> 00:25:10.589 lot of stuff that I didn't like as a kid, but 00:25:10.589 --> 00:25:12.349 canned tuna was one of them, you know? And how 00:25:12.349 --> 00:25:14.450 a lot of people, it's delicious to them, and 00:25:14.450 --> 00:25:16.210 they're sort of like, oh, canned tuna on a piece 00:25:16.210 --> 00:25:18.569 of toast. For me, that was always like, no, no 00:25:18.569 --> 00:25:20.869 way. Nowadays, I've gotten around to it. But 00:25:20.869 --> 00:25:24.250 also... But there are also levels of quality, 00:25:24.410 --> 00:25:26.750 okay? That's what I was just going to say, yeah. 00:25:27.029 --> 00:25:30.309 Yeah. Like, for example, Bonito del Norte... 00:25:31.200 --> 00:25:35.079 a can or tint or in a jar of Borito del Norte 00:25:35.079 --> 00:25:39.779 or a good tuna belly can. That's incredible. 00:25:40.019 --> 00:25:44.160 To put it in a Russian salad or in a vitello 00:25:44.160 --> 00:25:46.220 tonnato or these kind of things is just incredible. 00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:49.900 I remember when I was living in San Sebastian 00:25:49.900 --> 00:25:54.779 in Tamboril, I ate a salad with tuna belly and 00:25:54.779 --> 00:25:58.700 tomatoes and onion. That was it. But the tuna 00:25:58.700 --> 00:26:01.480 belly was like confit and oil and preserved so 00:26:01.480 --> 00:26:05.180 nicely. It was such a fucking delicious thing. 00:26:05.380 --> 00:26:09.019 And I think this is also a very underrated technique. 00:26:09.099 --> 00:26:11.500 There's like confit and escabeche and all these 00:26:11.500 --> 00:26:13.960 sorts of things. Really, like if it's done nicely 00:26:13.960 --> 00:26:15.859 and you take care of the cooking of the fish, 00:26:15.940 --> 00:26:19.799 it can be absolutely spectacular. You guys, you're 00:26:19.799 --> 00:26:22.279 serving stuff with tuna right now, aren't you? 00:26:23.200 --> 00:26:26.299 We're serving a fuck ton of tuna. Yeah, right? 00:26:26.460 --> 00:26:31.920 Yeah. By the way, on the foie episode, when I 00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:35.720 asked, like, where are you sending the halal 00:26:35.720 --> 00:26:38.359 foie gras? And they told me Dubai. They're buying 00:26:38.359 --> 00:26:42.920 all the foie gras. People love fucking foie gras 00:26:42.920 --> 00:26:46.920 here, man. Yeah, super nice. But I saw some dishes 00:26:46.920 --> 00:26:48.619 you were serving. Is it possible that it was 00:26:48.619 --> 00:26:50.779 a tuna with truffles or something like that? 00:26:51.470 --> 00:26:54.970 Yes, potentially tuna with truffles. But yeah, 00:26:54.990 --> 00:26:58.230 potentially, potentially. Okay. What do you have 00:26:58.230 --> 00:27:01.349 now on the manual with tuna? Well, I mean, we 00:27:01.349 --> 00:27:03.509 have all sorts of stuff now. We have chutoro, 00:27:03.710 --> 00:27:07.329 sashimis. We have all sorts of nigiris and hand 00:27:07.329 --> 00:27:10.130 rolls. You know, we have like we're really big 00:27:10.130 --> 00:27:13.529 into hand rolls right now. That's actually a 00:27:13.529 --> 00:27:15.049 thing where there's tuna and truffle together. 00:27:15.329 --> 00:27:19.210 And I only really realized a couple of days ago. 00:27:19.740 --> 00:27:20.980 And I would have never made that connection, 00:27:21.119 --> 00:27:24.200 but it works really well. So I'm trying to get 00:27:24.200 --> 00:27:26.640 into sushi. I'm trying to learn how to make sushi, 00:27:26.779 --> 00:27:28.259 right? Because I've never learned sushi. It's 00:27:28.259 --> 00:27:30.799 actually quite difficult. In theory, it's easy, 00:27:30.880 --> 00:27:33.420 but you have to get the practice and the making 00:27:33.420 --> 00:27:35.220 the nigiri. It's like there's so many small steps. 00:27:35.680 --> 00:27:37.880 So whenever I can, I spend time with the sushi 00:27:37.880 --> 00:27:41.740 team and they very patiently teach me. And so 00:27:41.740 --> 00:27:44.440 at one point I was like, okay, let's make some 00:27:44.440 --> 00:27:46.410 maki rolls. And they were like, let's make some 00:27:46.410 --> 00:27:48.630 spicy tuna. And so he starts mixing the tuna. 00:27:48.730 --> 00:27:51.490 And he was like, yeah, tuna, gochujang, and then 00:27:51.490 --> 00:27:53.589 a little bit of the sriracha. And we make our 00:27:53.589 --> 00:27:56.069 own sriracha in -house. And then he was like, 00:27:56.130 --> 00:27:58.130 and now I'm going to add some truffle oil. And 00:27:58.130 --> 00:28:00.750 I was like, really? Like truffle oil to spicy 00:28:00.750 --> 00:28:02.589 tuna? And he was like, yeah, just a little bit. 00:28:02.630 --> 00:28:04.940 You don't really notice it. And he did to the 00:28:04.940 --> 00:28:08.799 spicy fragrant tuna mix. I see it 100%. It just 00:28:08.799 --> 00:28:10.900 brought the complexity to a complete other level. 00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:12.700 And I was like, man, fucking hell. If I ordered 00:28:12.700 --> 00:28:14.960 this maki, I would never guess that there's truffle 00:28:14.960 --> 00:28:19.339 in it. But it just works. Yeah, absolutely. We 00:28:19.339 --> 00:28:21.920 also have this really nice, it's a bestseller 00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:23.400 at the moment. We have this really nice little 00:28:23.400 --> 00:28:26.420 bite. We were doing it for our chef's table. 00:28:26.559 --> 00:28:28.240 But now we put it on the menu because it's just 00:28:28.240 --> 00:28:30.660 so popular. We make these little tartlets of 00:28:30.660 --> 00:28:34.650 nori. So you have these like little crunchy nori 00:28:34.650 --> 00:28:37.430 tarts. Super delicious. And then we make a tartar 00:28:37.430 --> 00:28:40.730 out of akami and otoro. So you have lean tuna 00:28:40.730 --> 00:28:43.250 and fatty tuna together. We dress that with a 00:28:43.250 --> 00:28:45.069 little bit of shallot, just raw shallot, and 00:28:45.069 --> 00:28:47.250 a little bit of like an intense sort of sweetened 00:28:47.250 --> 00:28:49.990 soy sauce. And then we put that into the tartlet, 00:28:50.069 --> 00:28:52.630 make a little base. Then we have like a little 00:28:52.630 --> 00:28:55.089 light mayonnaise made from yuzu kosho. It just 00:28:55.089 --> 00:28:56.670 goes inside a little bit, a little bit more tuna. 00:28:57.230 --> 00:28:59.789 And then on top, you just get some caviar, some 00:28:59.789 --> 00:29:02.809 myoga. and a little bit of chive, and that's 00:29:02.809 --> 00:29:05.109 it. And you eat it in like one go. It's just 00:29:05.109 --> 00:29:09.509 like one bite of tuna, yuzu kosho, caviar. It's 00:29:09.509 --> 00:29:15.890 like the perfect bite. It's so delicious. That's 00:29:15.890 --> 00:29:18.569 it for this week's episode of Potluck Food Talks. 00:29:18.569 --> 00:29:20.950 If you like what we're doing, make sure to subscribe 00:29:20.950 --> 00:29:23.210 to the podcast so you never miss an episode. 00:29:23.589 --> 00:29:25.650 You can also find us on Instagram and TikTok 00:29:25.650 --> 00:29:29.170 as Potluck Food Talks. The show airs every Monday.