You're listening to Heritage Radio Network. Hi,
everyone. Welcome to Potluck for Talks. I'm Eric,
and I'm here with my homie, Phil. And today,
we don't have a topic to talk about, but we have
talked in a while. So, how's it going, man? You're
in Dubai now. Yes, back in Dubai. Pretty cool,
pretty excited. Really happy to be back. Yeah,
we haven't talked in like a month. I would say
even two months, something like that. Really?
That's crazy. Yeah, I've done a lot of episodes
with strangers. Surrandoms, just NPCs of the
street. Yeah, but oh good, man. I've been in
Dubai for just about a month now. Yeah? And yeah,
you know, just getting settled in, settling into
my new role, you know, all the usual stuff. What's
your role now? You're like a research and development
chef? I've rejoined the Arts Club in Dubai, where
I have previously been a head chef for one of
the restaurants. And I've now joined as culinary
development. Okay, so it's kind of like a research
and development role. Yeah, it's kind of like
the role didn't exist before. I've joined kind
of like an executive chef to do sort of like,
you know, R &D, and work on new openings also.
Okay, nice, nice, nice, sounds pretty cool. Yeah,
it's been really, really good. I mean, the Arts
Club in Dubai, it consists of three different
restaurants. And a rooftop terrace. So there's
lots of stuff going on. And there's also the
Arts Club in London, which has been around since
1863, I think. It's super crazy. It was founded
by Charles Dickens. So it's been around for a
really long time. And so I'm going to fly to
London also to work in the restaurants there
a little bit. And yeah, you know, just it's been
super cool because I'm just basically doing creative
work. I don't have the really tedious stuff that
a head chef has to do, like rotoring, dealing
with all the bullshit, you know? Lots of micromanagement,
right? A head chef has lots of micromanagement.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. I mean, in
an ideal world, a sous chef has even more, right?
Yeah. In an ideal world, the head chef can give
the sous chef direction and the sous chef deals
with it. Yeah. But yeah, so that's why it's been
kind of nice. and to come back also like i come
back to the club and so many it's three years
ago that i was here right and so many of the
same people are still there like half the kitchen
team is the same and i think that's really really
telling also front of house and stuff like that
you know um it was a really nice welcome back
i came in and it was kind of like such a different
work attitude like if i compare to to germany
you know um and especially berlin Like I come
in here and people come up to me to say, hey,
chef, how's it going? Nice to be back. Blah,
blah, blah. How have you been? And in Germany,
it was like, man, you know, like waiters walking
into the kitchen, like to the pass. No, hello.
Like nothing, you know? And I'd be sort of like,
okay, who are you? Like not seeing you before.
Do you maybe want to introduce yourself or like,
you know? And this whole sort of fucking like,
oh, you know, yeah, I don't know. I'm just here
like two days a week and block. I can't work
so much. It's not like that here. The work attitude
is super good in general. You know, people work
really hard. Sounds great. Sounds great. And
what projects can you talk about? Do you have
any next openings or something? I think I can
talk about it a little bit. Next year, we are
planning on opening three restaurants. We have
a place that we're going to open in the AFC.
So I'm here in the financial district. It's like
called the financial district because that's
where all the banks are and loads of like big
offices, kind of like Canary Wharf in London.
Yeah, there is also a financial district in Manhattan
and in Tokyo. Exactly like Ginza, you know. It's
actually a good comparison. In Ginza, there's
loads of good restaurants. So here in the financial
district, there's also a bunch of really, really
good restaurants altogether. So that's where
the arts club is. And in this district, we're
going to open another more small -scale restaurant.
We've signed a contract for a big -ass yacht
club on the harbor, which is going to be massive.
It's going to be a place where you do 1 ,000
covers a day. And then probably next year also
we will launch a restaurant in London. Super
cool. Super, super cool. Yeah, yeah. It's good.
It's very good. I love the team, you know. I
mean, you know Michael Hepfel. Yes, of course.
Love working with him. But also the other people
involved. Like, for example, the upper management,
the CEO. Like, it's a person I respect a lot.
I have not many times worked with... Like, worked
in places where I really respect the upper management.
And I'm sort of like, they know, they really
know what they're talking about. Nice. Yeah,
sounds super cool. Yeah. So, yeah. What about
you? What have you been up to? No, nothing crazy.
Like, just some things I could share here. I
went back to Mucha. I think it's really my favorite
restaurant in San Sebastian right now. And I
have the same, do you remember that sparkling
wine we had, the Isarlecu? Oh, yeah, that was
really good. Which was like a sparkling Chacoli.
I think that's my favorite wine right now, period.
You know, like, it's just so incredible, like
a Chacoli where they apply Champenoise method.
It's so unique, and it's so much better than,
you name it, like Cava or Champagne or anything,
without the bullshit, you know? Like, it's just
like something for connoisseurs. That is something
I had recently. And besides that, I'm just coming
from a gastronomic society, lunch party. Nice.
I was in charge of the steak, of the chuleta.
Oh, nice. How did it turn out? I didn't mess
up. I did it the proper Basque way. Everybody
respected me for that. And yeah, so that was
it. Yeah, so I've only been once to a Sociedad
like that. And that was in Muguritz. It was one
of the team outings. We went to the one that
Jorens was part of. And that was super fun. I
remember Jorens was cooking, Javi, Ramon, they
were all kind of, you know, cooking in the background.
We were just all enjoying and eating. I remember
Andoni was there also. And we all got incredibly
drunk. It was a good time. I already found, like,
I placed a request for one to see if I become
a member. And yeah, so maybe I become a member
and next time you come, we can do a party there.
Yeah, we were talking about the steak, you know,
because it's something really, to do it the Basque
way, right? Because it's not the same as you
would do it anywhere else in the world. If you
do it in France or in Argentina or in the States
or in London or wherever, it's different. But
here it's really something that where you have
to do only like three or four things. the, according
to how it should be. And I would say it's pre
-resting the meat, high temperature, uh, quick
pan searing or, or grilling or whatever. And
then also very important, good knife and good
salt. That's it. Yeah. Course salt. Those are
the KPIs, you know, like you need. Yeah, coarse
salt and a good one, not whatever crappy salt.
I use aniana, which is this Basque salt from
a salt bank not far from here. Nice. Just to
make it more mystical. Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.
It's been harvested by... By a Basque nun. Of
course, yeah. Other full moon, of course. They
tie canaries to her forehead. The canaries, they
search out the salt. Exactly. In cooking, those
are my favorite sort of things. The ones that
are so, so, so simple. Like ridiculously simple.
Like if you had to explain it to somebody, you'd
be sort of like, you add salt, you put it over
charcoal, you flip it, you do the same thing
again, blah. But the way that you do it and the
like little intricacies make the difference.
Like with, you know, I don't know, people are
probably sick to their fucking stomach of us,
of me mentioning the Spanish tortilla. Every
time I mentioned the Spanish tortilla, everybody's
like, oh my God, not again. But it's just the
perfect example of simplistic cooking. You know,
those are my favorite sort of things. What about,
I saw when you just arrived, you had like a,
like a private diner. to you directly by by michael
oh yeah like you're yeah like you're welcome
there what was that that's all really amazing
what did it come for you i mean it wasn't anything
like out of the ordinary as in like just specifically
for me the first day i came into the office and
i signed some paperwork and he was like so you
want to have some lunch or something and i just
came in and ate off the lunch menu and then it
was the same i think the day after for dinner
he was like hey just come by have some food but
it was just off the menu you know but i had like
the food there is just amazing it's just really
fucking good there's so many people there that
do amazing work um and yeah so like when i was
there in the beginning what did i eat i ate like
this little we make this little nori tartlet
with like a tuna tartare uh like a little mayonnaise
with yuzu kosho and then you put some caviar
on it some chives some yoga That's it. And it's
so fucking simple, but just so tasty. You never
get tired of it. This little crispy nori shell
looks beautiful also, right? And then you have
tuna tartare, sauce, a little bit of caviar.
That's it. Also really nice, like we're making
these like little ramen for lunch. Like if you
want to come have a quick lunch, we make these
little bowls of ramen. But it's like very thought
through. So it'll be like a chicken ramen. with
a sort of like slow roasted soy chicken that's
like super crispy a really really nice like intense
um kind of tonkatsu chicken broth like really
thick and creamy homemade noodles good marinated
soy egg like it's just good i love the style
of cooking you know it's it's really it doesn't
it can be anything you know but it's just like
simple straightforward um delicious nice nice
nice nice So I went to Muca again. I remember
having also some dishes that were mind -blowing
once again, especially the vegetables. I remember
having the tear peas again, having asparagus
again, the anchovies again. All of those things
were just out of this world. The anchovies were
so good, man. I still think about those. But
besides that, I haven't had any new, crazy different
experiences. Nothing out of the box, to be honest.
being a little bit more of the same. Same old,
same old. Yeah, same old, same old is often good.
I mean, especially when you're in the Basque
country, you know. I cooked a couple of really
nice things these last couple of weeks. Okay.
In my new role as culinary development. One of
the things I did that I tried out the first time,
and I've never done it before, and it was one
of those things that it just worked out straight
away super well. So I tried to make pastrami.
It was kind of cool because... Like, I wanted
to make pastrami for a simple reason. I needed
to work on a sandwich for, like, lunch for one
of the restaurants. Just super casual. Nothing
fancy, you know? I don't like buying shit in.
Like, I think most of the things should be made
in -house. Also, so the quality is really, really
high. I was like, okay, I'm just going to try
to make pastrami. Also, when you buy pastrami,
it's often, like, super dry and stuff. So I think
there are, like, two major schools. One is that
it feels like a cold cut, and it's that one that
you say, like, that is more like a dry thing.
And the other one that is like a cooked brisket,
almost like a stewed beef cheek kind of a situation.
What's the one you're doing? Like the ones from
Katz, for example, in New York. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
exactly. So that's the kind of the style that
I went for, but I didn't want to use brisket.
We have these really nice Wagyu short ribs. right
big wagyu short ribs on the bone from australia
super nice marbling nice amount of connective
tissue and so i did it with that brined it for
four days did a nice brine lots of spice some
kombu inside of there also give it some umami
four days take it out rinse it pat it dry then
put it in a hosper smoke it with wood for like
five hours and make like a really nice rub you
know, lots of pepper, some sugar, some salt,
some garlic and onion powder, a little bit of
MSG. The good thing. The good stuff. Yeah, the
good stuff. And then just like backpack it with
the rub and cook it at 80 degrees, 12 hours.
Done. It comes out. It's bright pink all the
way through. It's so fucking fatty and so delicious
and so tender. It's absolutely unbelievable.
So that after we did this. We tried it the first
time and I was like, shit, man, this is like,
this is way too good for just a sandwich, you
know? And so we came up with this thing where
it's kind of like you get like a set of bao buns.
So freshly steamed bao buns and you get like
a couple of thick slices of pastrami and then
you just get condiments to make like your own
bao. So you have like yuzu pickled daikon, you've
got like a miso mustard sauce, some like fresh
cucumber, a little bit of like a cress salad.
You know, just like little steam buns. You put
this like fatty, juicy meat in, put your condiments
in, just eat it. It's fucking delicious. What
about, I saw something you posted that was like
a croissant, like a square croissant kind of
burger or sandwich. What was that? Oh yeah. That
was also the pastrami. So that was in the end,
the sandwich that I made. Ah, you fucking pervert.
Yeah. You know, like, um, So basically, we took
croissants, though, because we bake croissants
in -house also. And we put them into little rings.
You put a lid on it and then bake it so it stays
flat and compact. And it's perfect because it's
really light. So you have like a hockey disc
kind of. croissant thing exactly it's perfect
because it's really light it's buttery it's flaky
it toasts really nicely you can freeze it you
can defrost it super easy and then like what
did i do i just put like thin slices of pastrami
so when it's cold you just like you put it in
a steamer just gets back warm then you like flame
it a little bit and then super simple like i
made like a an onion cream so you just cook down
onions for a really long time until they're really
soft and caramelized. And then I seasoned that
with just some butter, some water, and a little
bit of miso to make this like onion jam. Then
I made like a mustard tarragon mayo. So lots
of herbs, you know, and then just like lettuce,
tomato, homemade cucumber pickles. That's it.
Some cheese, you know. It's fucking banging,
man. It's so like, so simple, but so nice. Nice,
nice, nice, nice. I like it. I like it, like
it. We started doing this like chef's table thing.
So once a week, we was in a restaurant there
and one of the restaurants, the Japanese restaurant,
well, the Nikkei restaurant, I should rather
say, at the sushi section, they have a counter
for six people. So once a week, we do like a
tasting menu of like 10 courses that we do couple
style. You know, I mean, we talked about couple
style in Japan where you sit in front of, you
sit on the counter and you watch the chef. prepare
the stuff basically. So we do that. That's also
a large amount of the work that I do at the moment
is kind of make dishes for that and like cook
there also. So we have this message from Chef
Ryan, probably our most active listener. Shout
out to Chef Ryan, yeah. I think I have a good
idea for the podcast. Where do you find your
identity in cooking? For me personally, I feel
lost as a chef sometimes. Maybe imposter syndrome?
I've been born and raised in California, but
have no real tangible connections except what
is expected as far as what a chef on the West
Coast means. Thomas Keller helped define that
and bred the farm -to -fork movement, which is
essentially what Basque Country is for California.
Where do you find your passion in the culinary
industry? That's a good question. What do you
think? What are your initial thoughts to this?
It has to be autobiographical, I think. I mean,
unless... I think there is no way around that.
It has to be... For example, I, myself, I have
this mixture of cultures where my parents are
Spanish and German and I grew up and was born
and raised in Venezuela. I think I... belong
to the three cultures. I think I'm entitled to
open a German restaurant or a Spanish restaurant
or a Venezuelan restaurant. And I think that
that's okay. But even apart from that, if I feel
I wanted to open an Italian restaurant or a Japanese
restaurant, I feel I can also do that as long.
as whatever I'm cooking resonates with me. As
long as I feel that I'm expressing something
or telling a story with the stuff I'm putting
on the plate, I do feel that that's the whole
point. It's like, I don't know, if you're a musician,
you have to feel what you're playing, right?
I guess that's the whole point of cooking and
delivering something on a plate, in my opinion.
Yeah, I totally agree. It's autobiographical
for sure. you know i feel like we're still in
a mindset where we separate cultures a lot but
i feel like we live in a time where information
is so widely spread that you can't make this
differentiation differentiation that much anymore
like of course you can there's very clear cultural
differences but if you're in a in a subject like
say you're a painter right You're a painter in
a certain area and people around you paint in
a certain way. But at the same time, you go on
the Internet and you see all the fucking different
painting styles from all over the world. And
you see things that you really like, that you
look at and you're like, man, I love that. You
know, maybe I love the choice of color or I love
the, you know, the technical aspect or I love
the abstract aspect of it. It's something that
very emotionally resonates with you. I think
it is very normal to be inspired by that. I think
it's kind of the same with cooking. I think you
have to be careful with saying, oh, this is traditional
this, this is authentic that. But I think that
if you are inspired, which you unavoidably are
going to be in this day and age with all the
information and all the input that you're getting
these days, as long as you absorb things and
maybe replicate things out of a place of appreciation.
then i think you're good and it's authentic i
think it is a big part of food and cooking is
way beyond what it used to be like 20 years ago
right it's cooking is evolving in a in a as an
expression and as an art form in a way that's
incredible and um i think that's part of the
reason why you know because people have a very
widespread treasury of information and When you
are apprenticing, when you're starting in something,
replicating the masters or the people that you
admire and that you respect is undoubtedly one
of the first steps of improving yourself. Replicating
and repeating that and absorbing. You have to
do that before you are even able to express something
of yourself. Additionally, to close what I'm
saying. You know, Chef Ryan taking the example
of Thomas Keller, who, Thomas Keller, forefather
of American cooking and Californian cooking,
no? For example, the donut, you know, donut and
coffee, you know, like that's nothing. It's one
of his signature and most iconic dishes. And
there is nothing disruptive about it. It's quite
the opposite. It's something. as classic and
straightforward as it gets but he's doing his
own take and putting it in the right moment at
the right place and telling a story with it and
that's what makes it uh extraordinary basically
absolutely yeah and um like to get there he for
a very long time cooked predominantly french
food right like you don't just start with something
authentic It becomes authentic, you know, and
Thomas Keller nowadays has his own style because
it evolved. He started somewhere, maybe predominantly
cooking French food and like Mediterranean food
in California. And that at some point he developed
his own style, you know, and now we don't even
question it. You know, it's French laundry style.
You can look at a dish and you can be like, oh,
that's, you know, that's very French laundry
-esque. That's very birthday -esque. And like
the donut, you know, coffee and donuts is something
so. american in a way with his own style of cooking
that was formed by a different style so i think
that people need to i feel like americans have
this a lot where they're like very they have
imposter syndrome we need to maybe look at these
sorts of things in a much more organic way that
everything's a process um there's a constant
osmosis of information and different cultures
in our day and time there's no sort of real like
segregation anymore sort of like oh my people
here your people there that's not really happening
anymore right and i think that's that's nice
that's the zeitgeist yeah i have a i have also
something to add on top of that um so on one
side this is something i've talked with with
xander the producer a million of times he told
me once one of his drama teachers while he was
in film school, he said, all stories have already
been told, but not by everyone. Because if you
break apart the structure of a story in, let's
say, in a novel or in a movie, there is a limited
amount of story structures that work, and those
structures are 99 % of all of the movies that
are being published. except for the very, very
experimental one. But it's either a character
that is transformed by his environment or his
or her environment, or the opposite, the character
transforms his or her environment. And from that,
you can make millions of variations, right? Yeah,
but not by everyone. That means, like, even the
same movie, you know? Like, even, let's say,
Romeo and Juliet, you know? There are a hundred
versions of that same story, and these are completely
different movies. On that same line of thought,
I bring a lot of people to places, for example,
like Bar Antonio, to try their tortilla. And
I've heard more than once people that have no
idea about tortilla, of what a tortilla is, and
they tell me, yeah, that's amazing, but it's
not that traditional tortilla. And I'm like...
That's a very traditional tortilla. It's a tortilla
that follows all of the rules of what a tortilla
should be, but they have their own personality
and character, and that's what makes it different.
But they're not breaking any rules. They're not,
like, adding flour to the tortilla or something
like that, you know? Like, that would make it
untraditional or even take it apart from the
definition of a tortilla. Once you add... Flour
is not a tortilla anymore. It's something else,
right? Like your break. But they're not doing
that at all. They're just doing it like their
own way. And I think that's very important. And
it's also like you talked about, for example,
what now is new Californian cuisine or this kind
of things. What now is Latin American fine dining?
Now you will find Peruvian or Mexican restaurants
that are Michelin star. But there were no Peruvian
or Mexican Michelin stars 20 years ago. Only
20 years ago. And the restaurants that were Peruvian
or Mexican fine dining weren't Peruvian -Peruvian
or Mexican -Mexican. These places were French
-Peruvian or French -Mexican. And if you go back
in time, you will see the same thing. It's pretty
much the same story, what happened with French
Laundry. First, they took French technique. And
then they did French -French, and then French
-Californian, and now California -Californian,
right? Like, same thing happened with Brazilian,
first French -Brazilian, then Brazilian -Brazilian,
and so on. Like, and the same thing with the
Basque cuisine, you know? Like, the new Basque
cuisine, what happened here in the late 70s.
Basically, these were chefs that were all French
trained and they started taking recipes from
their grandmothers or from farmers or fishermen
or producers and transformed that into a fine
dining setting, applying French technique. And
at the end of the day, everything is a remix.
Everything is a combination of what you've seen
and experienced yourself. And you're kind of
like a melting pot that puts all this stuff together
and you just... Deliver whatever only you can
express. For me, that's what it's all about in
any art form. It could be writing, singing, making
movies, telling stories, telling jokes, dancing,
whatever. You should look for something that
only you can do. Something even that is difficult
to explain. For example, in my case, imagine
I do a restaurant that is 100 % myself. It would
probably be... German, Spanish, and Venezuelan.
And people would be like, what the fuck? Just
line after line. And it's like, well, that's
my identity. These are my cultures. This is my
heritage. And it's just what I'm putting together.
Yeah, for sure. I had somebody ask me the other
day, how come a German chef is cooking Japanese
food? And I was like, well... um because i fucking
want to yeah yeah it's just like i am yeah like
i was i've been fascinated with it since i was
a kid and like went to japan cooked like i mean
maybe other days somebody said something like
that i was sort of like oh i never i never pictured
you like cooking japanese food and i was like
man i've been like i've cooked japanese food
for like at least a quarter of my career if not
a third you know like It's definitely a good
question. So thanks to Chef Ryan for prompting
it. People can always get in contact with us.
I mean, with me. I don't know about you, but
if you guys feel like reaching out, you can always
message me. Yes, of course. Yeah, we're happy
to read your questions and discuss them here.
Absolutely. That's it for this week's episode
of Potluck Food Talks. If you like what we're
doing, Make sure to subscribe to the podcast
so you never miss an episode. You can also find
us on Instagram and TikTok as potluckfoodtalks.
The show airs every Monday.