You're listening to Heritage Radio Network. Hi,
everyone. Welcome to Pot Luck Food Talks. I'm
here in the Bronx with Henry Obispo, also known
as the Sustainable Papi. He's a community activist
in many regards, everything around food, eco
-gastronomy. He's around many different projects,
and we're going to talk about them today. Welcome
to the Bronx. So let's start with the project
I knew you for, which is Reborn Farms. Oh, Reborn
Farms, my gosh. Reborn Farms is really an extension
of work that started really in 20, I would say
2014, when we launched a small farm. It's like
250 square feet on a rooftop in the South Bronx.
start growing food hyperlocally, and to start
connecting that to different initiatives that
we would launch. And out of that really came
this bigger initiative that was Bronx -wide,
which was the Bronx Salad. And so we tested that
out and began that there. Reborn Farms became
really an idea since then because once we launched
that and we understood how everything could connect,
not just to restaurants, to cultural institutions,
to schools, meaning growing food hyperlocally
and how that could be transformative. Now to
formalize that and to scale that, that was really
the beginnings. after that farm of reborn farms
and thinking about how we could do that while
building systems and economic development with
an urban farm that could be also technological,
but also, you know, make use of space that would
be underutilized, et cetera. So the idea was
to install farms and strategic places of the
Bronx that were underutilized and also to transform
the shape of the city, so to say? Yeah, so it
was, you know, when you think of city life and
urban space, especially in New York City, you
realize that there's space, but also the space
is very expensive. You can grow food, but then
seasonally there could be a hindrance because
of weather, right? certain things just don't
grow half the year. When we're thinking of open
space, and because it's New York City, now you're
thinking of rooftops. And so that's where we
started thinking about, you know, but we have
this vast resource here in New York that are
rooftops that could be engaged. That was really
sort of like the center of the idea in terms
of developing a model. Now thinking about public
housing. as a way for us to solidify that model
and to showcase how areas that are in need and
communities that are in need, you know, need
access to food are precisely the communities
where these projects could be developed. Last
time we met in Spain, you brought me this hot
sauces that were made with like in the same context
of this project. So how was it? You took like...
chilies that were grown in many different so
yeah so that was um a project so also in partnership
with chefs and one of the chef king who um passed
away a couple years ago actually was the co -founder
of that project of the bronx hot sauce and he
also was a a partner and in the bronx salad development
with us specifically that the bronx hot sauce
took This idea of urban production when it comes
to chili, specifically Serrano peppers, and engaging
the local community gardens to grow some of these
peppers to then find a viable path for potential
economic development for those people that would
be working in these community gardens to grow
these peppers. be able to build an added value
product for the company, which is called Small
Axe Peppers. Kind of like the big vision behind
this is to transform the Bronx into a food sovereign
place. That's a great idea behind it. When I
started getting into this project and also some
project of other chefs here in New York, I walked
across this concept that I never heard before,
that is food apartheid. that is about systematically
marginalizing communities through access to healthy
food. That's kind of like the enemy in this movie,
so to say. Food apartheid is, I think, a very
important term because it frames, it helps to
frame better than this idea of a food desert.
Because food deserts, so yeah, it's a desert.
There isn't food, there isn't, these are the
things that are happening. But food apartheid
now gives it... context, which is, it's a system.
What allows the system to essentially become
what it is, who created it, etc. And so that's
the beauty of that term, which was coined by
actually Karen Washington, an incredible mentor
of mine. She coined that because precisely she
wanted to make the distinction, which is, no,
it's something that is actually, it's by design.
And what that is, is that it showcases how, because
it's by design, there is a separation between
access to the people and the people and how it
is institutionalized, it is systematized. And
so food apartheid essentially can describe what's
happened in the Bronx when it comes to food and
food access. Specifically, initiatives like Reborn
Farms and even the Bronx Hot Sauce and then these
other projects that we're working on are precisely
to, I would say, to address that in a myriad
of ways because there isn't just one way to sort
of tackle this issue because it's so vast and
it's been for so long. We've talked not only
in the conversations we've had, not only about
food but also about comic books music and this
kind of thing i know you're pretty much into
afrofuturism do you think that that played a
role also in your vision of conceptualizing these
models and this kind of things for sure i mean
i i exist mostly i would say in the future in
my mind i'm i mean since childhood i've been
in wonderment just about everything. And I think
that's also what's allowed me to step out of
reality a bit. To birth anything new, you have
to kind of be out of the loop and be in your
own world or some other worlds. And that future
that you envision, how does the Bronx look like?
I mean, the future I envision is obviously the
Bronx is transformed and it's... you know, focused
on, well, obviously the needs in the Bronx, but
the people of the Bronx are the ones creating
this. The innovation is coming from here. It
looks like a place of abundance. It looks like
a place of just vast resources where all of these
ideas have... come to be and have scaled. The
level of access is no longer sort of like limited
in ways that we often have to fight to have.
And so that's the great vision I have in a general
sense. And I would say that the projects that
we're working on, whether it's research that
we're doing currently or developing certain components.
Yeah, so whether it's the research that we're
doing or the projects that we're in development
of, the idea is for that vision to be a reality
because of what we're preparing. And then globally,
because a lot of my work has now taken me to
the globe, in many ways, I would say it's tackling
similar issues because, believe it or not, very
similar things are happening all over the world.
histories that sort of differ and locations,
whether it's rural, whether it's city, whether
it's desert, there are these issues that are
just so pronounced globally. And so I've had
the great opportunity to also start working.
and many places around the world to address those
very issues. You told me you're in how many community
boards here in the Bronx? Like in the museum?
What else? So, I mean, I tried to be active in
terms of like community boards. What is exactly
a community board? How does it work? Well, these
are boards that are where community members are
part of. of these, like the institutions. So
they may have, I don't know. So for example,
there's a community board at Hostos College where
everything is sort of discussable. It's like
the vision for the college. And we can, you know,
offer our opinion, but also direction and also
resources. for the betterment of whatever a greater
vision the university or the college has. And
so it allows for the enrichment of whatever programs
are going on because it's someone from the community
being informed, but also informing the process.
And that's really important to have because you
know the community, the community knows you,
and you want the better for it. It's important
to be a part of these community boards because
it allows for that. And also because you have
the pulse of what's going on in the community
and you can connect dots with whatever it is
that you're doing to be able to now amplify and
be of service in a greater way also. So you're
in the Bronx Museum of Art, the Botanical Garden,
what else? Hostos College, as well as part of
the community group at Fordham University. And
Lehman College as well. Okay. Yeah. Has this
also something to do with you work with the U
.S. Embassy that brought you these recent travels
you were in? Oh, no, that has nothing to do with
that. I mean, you know, everything in life is
connected, but no. How did that happen? How is
that story? Man, this is a very powerful and
incredible story because I'm going to just backtrack
a whole bunch of years. Because I actually, when
this came to be, I was very excited because as
a teenager and in my adolescence in general,
part of my dream, what I often dreamt about was
to actually go to the Pacific. areas in the Pacific,
whether it was like Vanuatu, Papua, New Guinea,
and other areas, or the Cook Islands, to really
be able to explore on a cultural level, but also
from a sort of gastronomy level to connect all
these dots. And I've been dreaming about this
ever since I was that age. kind of like travel
point of view, travel show point of view, you
know, back then. And so when I got the opportunity
to be the culinary ambassador to Fiji, I was
just, you know, beside myself. That's crazy.
Yeah. That's like a crazy offering. It was the
most incredible thing. It really was a result
of so many stars colliding, I would say. It had
to do with a... Great friend who was out in the
Pacific, Robert Oliver, who had been connecting
me to the University of the South Pacific with
certain projects there. And then the embassy,
the U .S. Embassy in Fiji, they wanted to develop
a program around. food and plant -based eating
and connecting it to the population, which is
in many ways very much so similar to the Bronx
population of what happens here in terms of disparities.
And then here... Let's go a little bit deeper
into that. How was the situation there? What
did you find in Fiji? Well, Fiji, I mean, it's
just really one of the most incredible places
on earth. I still don't have the words to describe
my experience there, but very much so like what
we have been addressing through our initiatives
and programs here in the Bronx, what we found
in Fiji, essentially. When it comes to health
and health disparities, it's major there because
about 80 % of the population is dealing with
some type of diabetes. in Fiji. Now, this is,
you know, incredible tropics. Food is growing
everywhere. But there are issues in terms of
what people are eating, what's growing there,
and what people are opting out in terms of their
own ancestral foods. I found that to be something
very interesting. You told me about this whole
colonization aftermath made the population not
feel... proud about their food anymore that that
was like a phenomenon well you know through um
our engagement locally some of the things that
came up was this um lack of pride around their
local foods their ancestral foods because of
all of these social forces also but also marketing
forces that were that are marketing to villages
in ways that are letting them know that you know
that they should opt out of certain things and
opt into others. And it's this sort of like very
insidious processes that happen in developing
countries. Because I can speak of also being
from the Caribbean, the Dominican Republic, how
these things can happen there in terms of connections
to food and how you can disconnect, but also
be marketed in a specific way that veers you
away from, your lineage or ancestral knowledge
of food and so in very many ways that's what's
occurred in Fiji and so we were there to really
speak and also reconnect folks in ways that it
wasn't really about me an outsider coming in
and telling people what to do but it was really
offering examples of what we have done for example,
here in the Bronx and in other areas, and how
the result of disconnecting from your ancestral
food is diabetes. It is becoming unhealthy. It
is being reliant on outside sort of sources of
food. Your ancestral foods and those that will
keep you healthy are surrounding you, are literally
in your backyard. And so it was speaking to that
and that reconnection that was just so transformative
there. You know, going to talks in villages,
doing like masterclasses around them developing
dishes, specifically plant -based dishes with
everything that's growing around them and feeling
pride around that. Also speaking when it comes
to like the culinary sort of world there, also
speaking to people that are in more ecological,
pathways or like eco -friendly businesses for
them to focus on these ancestral foods and to
promote themselves as such that that is the added
value that was also very powerful so you know
we spent over 20 days every day engaging with
all parts of the society Fijian society in different
islands listening and also having discussions
in general and trying to find solutions Whether
it was women's cooperatives, also developing
products for added value and for economic development
and us connecting to them when it comes to that.
So it was a variety of things. And as a result,
I returned a very changed person and profoundly
with everything I learned there, but also the
connection with the people. It's just been incredible.
You think the work you were doing there in that
visit was already starting to create an impact
on the community over there? I know so because
we're receiving continuous feedback from different
villages, from different groups, and the transformation
that they, you know, part of that transformation
was like right before our eyes because it was
very... intensive in terms of like some of the
workshops we did were for example the very last
one was like a two -day intensive workshop with
mostly women that came from all over Fiji like
Fiji's 300 islands but they came many of them
had not even traveled and so we summoned this
group of women to come and to be able to now
partake in this workshop that would allow them
to now connect to the businesses that they were
looking to develop, whether it was some type
of ecological lodging or trekking or in their
villages, all this in their villages, and to
now connect them to this greater idea of food
and ancestry and lineage, ways of preparing and
offering. This to themselves, to their villages,
but also to the visitors that they were now looking
to have by way of their businesses. And that
was very profound. And to this day, all of these
women, dozens of women came from all over in
boats and like in all types of means of transportation
to get to where we were to partake in this. And
the transformation, I mean. It's just so profound.
When we were talking earlier, you said that part
of the DNA of the Bronx or part of the reason
why people come from all over the world to study
what happened here, something really important
happened here a few decades ago where the community
took the initiative to self -organize themselves
towards a system that wasn't solving the problems
they had. I mean, it's documented or maybe not
documented enough of, you know, when the Bronx,
you know, there's a coining of the Bronx is burning.
And it's really in reference to the arson that
took place here for about 10, 12 years, having
to do with greedy landlords and building owners
torching their buildings to collect insurance.
So then cashing out and then leaving. which created
essentially destruction and certain populations
were not able to leave. And so essentially you
would think of the Bronx as a place that imploded
in many ways because of all this arson and then
not many resources coming to it by way of the
city, the state or the federal government. And
essentially them pulling out and the Bronx being
left on its own. And it was really community
organizations, some of which I've been, you know,
I've had the pleasure of working with, that stepped
up and, you know, cleaned up the Bronx and started
redeveloping the Bronx, essentially taking over
where the, you know, where the federal government
or the city or the state pulled out. It was really
on the community level that this occurred. The
Bronx is... the model for community revitalization,
for the community doing that on its own. Here
on 138th, you have a lot of community, I would
say, businesses, local businesses, a lot of Mexican.
There's a vast Mexican population, also Puerto
Rican and Dominican population here. So it's,
you know, it's a great place to like, to walk
and to get your Your produce, there's great small
mom and pop restaurants there. This area is now
adjacent to another area, which is now, I would
say, more gentrifying area, which is literally
two blocks away, where you have more community
-based and now also public housing, which is
where we are. And within a block, you have a
very hyper luxury. by the waterfront. And all
this has happened in the last five years. There
is this sort of tale of two worlds converging
here as a result of this sort of new development.
Let's go back to what you just mentioned earlier.
You were talking about the communities that you
find around here, where you buy your produce.
How do these communities play into the... The
food identity of the borough. It's a very strong
food identity. The Bronx is very, very, very
strong. We have representation when it comes
to probably everybody from around the world.
Every nationality lives here in varying numbers.
And so you will find an extension of their cuisine.
Obviously, the larger numbers in terms of...
populations and nationalities have a more sort
of extensive footprint in the borough but you
can find based on neighborhoods you can find
everything here everything obviously very delicious
and in many ways the beginnings of whatever that
was a lot of it is in the Bronx whether it's
like little Italy little Italy neighborhood here
in the Bronx which is A very authentic, I would
say very autonomous region here in existence
for over 100 years with the Italian immigration.
I am. And so you have that there in a way that
doesn't exist anywhere else, really. Here in
the South Bronx, you have incredible restaurants
that are, you know, very much so from the Mexican
community. You have Dominican restaurants, you
have Puerto Rican restaurants. that are sort
of more abundant in the area there are other
types of like innovative restaurants that are
now coming up in the more luxury area that you
see there sort of like sprouting up and then
you have when it comes to neighborhoods you have
incredible also you know Jamaican restaurants
here you have Ghanaian and Nigerian restaurants
that are really incredible. And with that, accompany
their marketplaces as well. So you'll have these
outlets, these marketplaces that people have
to source these ethnic ingredients as well. So
you'll be able to find that throughout the borough.
And that's something that's very special that
we have here in the Bronx. The first little farm,
like 11 years ago, was on top of this. That was
the first farm that I spoke to you about. That
was 250 square feet, right here. The rooftop?
At that rooftop, yeah. So what projects do you
have in front of you in the short -term future?
What are you working on? I mean, a lot of things
are in the research stage, I would say. Are you
collaborating with a university on a research
project? Oh, yeah. So, yeah. So, there's a big
vision project of engaging food production, added
value products. For that, we wanted to really
study this on a community level, how it could
affect community and also be able to impact the
community from an economic point of view. And
so we've partnered with Fordham University to
start that research. And part of that research
is us engaging with community gardens to see
how certain production can happen there. And
that certain production, we're looking at what
could specifically be growing there that could
transcend sort of like seasons and space and
really thinking of them as... An aggregate and
how this aggregate can now grow at scale, but
grow specific things that could have added value.
We're in the research right now, the research
phase. And we have about another year and a half
of the research before we launch a pilot for
it. And I would say within a year, we'll launch
a pilot. And that pilot will allow us now to
look at this very interesting model, I would
say. that doesn't exist in the way that we see
it, but that we hope will be a pioneer and would
allow for others to be inspired to also develop
similar initiatives. What about the botanical
garden? What is it exactly? Well, we just ended
the botanical gardens project, the African -American
garden. It was just the most incredible experience
for the last three years. in partnership as a
curator, Dr. Jessica Harris. The project essentially
was us looking at also a very novel and way of
thinking about lineage and food and connecting
all the dots. And it was looking at the Bronx,
obviously because the Botanical Gardens is here.
The first year we looked at the African -American
experience and the migration patterns and the
plants that now are associated or were associated
with the African -American community. And are
these plants that were brought by the Africans
that came to America? So these are, yes. So we
featured plants there that were brought from
enslaved people, but also plants that were already
here. We're really telling the story of migration,
but also enslavement and also of resilience.
And adaptation as well, right? Like adapting
to the available plants. Yeah, exactly, exactly.
And how essentially that adaptation happened
and how plants can tell that story. Is anything
published about that? There's stuff online, yes.
And currently we are developing, I would say,
a document with the botanical gardens where it
will have even more information. But there is
a lot published already. And then the second
year was us focusing on the Caribbean. Which
is also an insane melting pot of... I mean, that
is, when you're talking about the hemisphere,
that is where everything essentially... The world
as we know it, that is the start of that, whether
it's colonization or enslavement, the connection
with indigenous and European indigenous and Africans.
Yeah. That is the beginnings of all that. And
so we told the story. That what is, if you say
Caribbean today, I can only think of exactly
that. indigenous Africans and Europeans and an
island, basically. Yeah, I mean, and the thing
is that, well, there's this greater idea of the
Caribbean being a continent of islands, right?
Because they are so rich and so vast that one
island in the history and the impact of just
one island that could be considered very small,
it's equivalent to a continent. I would also
add to that the surrounding coasts of continental
America. For example, in Venezuela, we see ourselves
as caribbeans as well right because we we also
connect with the sea that's right yeah and so
there is a shared there is a shared history and
along those coasts for sure you know telling
that story of the caribbean again we were telling
it through plants over 170 plants also spices
so many all of that we told the story with medicinal
herbs with fruits with vegetables with plants
that were for um not just for medicine but for
for tool making for for music making like when
you're thinking of plants and the use and what
you know of the cultures now um there is you
cannot deny how it was all shaped by people but
also how people were shaped by plants and so
we told that story there and in this very last
year which ended in october We told the story
of the diaspora, which was now the entire hemisphere.
Yeah. And so we told the story to over 200 plants.
And those 200 plants were really, you know, connecting
South America, Central America, North America
and the Caribbean and intertwining all of this
knowledge and the plant knowledge and telling
the story, this greater story of diaspora. and
how we're all so connected with these plants
and we may be using them without even knowing
that we're using them. Absolutely. And having
different names for them, but also the innovation
that... It's an intrinsic part of any civilization,
their use of plants, absolutely. Yeah. And so
that was the botanical garden project. You also
mentioned in one of your farming projects, you
want to get deep into herbs. What can you share
about that? Yeah, so that's part of like the
research, some of the research that I was engaging
you on that has to do with, there are populations
that have not been well served in terms of their
contributions of herbs or spices or whatever,
or just plants in general. And the idea is to
be able to shine a light. on that and so that's
part of the research that it's ongoing for us
to be able to do that and do that in a way that
really serves that population well but also allows
them to reap rewards from whatever it is that
we find and however it is that we look to employ
this this knowledge and potential project and
so yeah we're being very careful in terms of
the research aspect to be able to get it right
because So much has not gone right when it comes
to certain populations being well served. So
this area is, I mean, all of this is like all
the areas that I was going to show you. Okay.
Oh, we're going to walk through. I have just
like a floating question. Yeah, we can walk through
here. We can wait till like, let's pass, hit
this. So this was the first cannabis store in
the Bronx. Since legalization. Since legalization,
okay. So they throw, you know, parties and stuff.
Yeah, so, you know, you can freely engage here.
It's an interesting model that they have because
they're connected also to formerly incarcerated
people. Okay. And giving them opportunities in
terms of like... Well, the Mexican place where
you just had some tacos you mentioned, engage
in social enterprise model. Is there a lot of
that going on in the Bronx? There are a lot of
very conscious, I would say, models and people
wanting to develop that. But because they know,
I mean, if you're on the ground, you know what
the needs are. And so you want to be able to
serve those needs. So you will find a lot of
organizations and increasingly people wanting
to be more social about their enterprising. And
just a last question on, well, you as a vegan,
if you would recommend top three favorite places
in New York to have a bite. I would say my house.
Okay. Number one. Because I mostly eat home.
I'll never forget when I tried to do a pinche
tour with you in San Sebastian. And it was so
impossible. Impossible, but not terribly, like...
Terribly, I would say, impossible, but not terribly
bad. Like terribly, it ain't terribly wrong.
We found some stuff that there was. I will never
forget that there was like one of the waiters,
but why? Why does he? Yeah, I was like, why would
you ask for that? Why would you, why would we
even serve that? And I was just like. Very apologetic.
Like, I'm used to it. So, you know, I can bend
in terms of like, oh, no, there are no options.
Cool. I'll opt out on this one. But you guys
were being so inclusive that you really wanted
me to try. But, you know, everything is so delicious
there and so fresh that I, you know... I remember
you dripping with the almond soup. Oh, yeah.
That was really... Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was
taken aback by that soup because it was just...
It was just so delicious. Like, it was just so
simple. But so, I'm like... Ajo Blanco, which
is basically an almond gazpacho. Yeah. I've had
gazpacho here, obviously, but it wasn't like
that. No, that one is, like, very special. That
was at another level. Yeah. And so, I was very
much so, like, I wanted to try all of these things
and whatever we could find. So, I'm very grateful
that you, you know... You decided to bring me
along on that, even though you knew it was probably
not going to be. I talk about that a lot, you
know. It was a very funny and learning experience.
So top one, your house. So my house, I really
love. Also, there's this place that opened up
downtown, Ross Plant Base. It's more like an
Ethiopian inspired place. I mean, I go to a lot
of places that are like... Is this where you
have this? Like these giant pancakes on the table?
No, that's more like more traditional Ethiopian.
This is more like bowls and like smaller plates.
They've kind of like revamped. I would say Ethiopian
inspired because you have some of that, but with
other types of complex ingredients. for lack
of a better word. And so I really like that because
there's a level of like innovation, but also
keeping it very culturally relevant, which is,
you know, I also love Ethiopian food, but then
there are other components to it that keep it
very interesting. I think they have like two
or three locations and they just open one downtown.
So I really like them. I would say for my third,
there's this Mexican spot that's, I mean, we
just went to a Mexican place. And I have a plant
based option there, which is I think they make
the best tacos. So you were talking about the
tortillas. Yeah. So, you know, instead of just
saying of a vegan restaurant, I want to prop
up a local restaurant that I love. And I've worked
with them on many initiatives, restaurant initiatives,
food initiatives, along with other restaurants
around. And, you know, I really think that these
mom and pop restaurants are the true heroes in
our community. And the true stakeholders that
should get the mention. So even though they're
not a vegan place, they have vegan options. They've
accommodated many of our initiatives that are
plant -based also. And their restaurants to be
able to promote health and plant -based eating.
And I would say that those are, and Mexico Sina,
they are the best tacos in New York City. I say
that because... I believe it. And I have them
often there. But also because the recipes are,
you know, the owner's great grandmother and grandmother.
And so he's brought them from Mexico here and
keeps them still to tradition. And so I have
the tacos Mexicosina, which are very specific
to their sort of house tacos. They're not the
regular tacos. They're very specific. And I usually
have the mushroom ones with them. They're just
the most delicious. So I would say that those
are the three places that I would recommend.
But if you wanted to come to my house, you have
to, you know, get on the list. That's it for
this week's episode of Potluck Food Talks. If
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