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Heritage Radio Network. Hi, everyone. Welcome
to Pot Luck Food Talks. We're here in San Sebastian
just finishing our road trip. Well, it was not
a road trip. Yeah, a little bit of a road trip.
Okay, yeah. Yeah, we visited how many? About
eight restaurants? Was it that many? No, six.
Six? Yeah, but still in like three days. Yeah,
not bad at all. I can't eat anymore. No, I'm...
It was some of the like most amazing food, but
also I have slowly lost the joy of eating. The
joy of life. I think I'll pass for a week after
this. Yeah. What are we going to talk about?
Let's talk about restaurant openings. Okay, cool.
So restaurant openings. Restaurant openings.
How many restaurants have you opened from the
beginning? Like quite a few actually, which is
a bit of a coincidence and I feel was very fortunate.
that I've been part of a lot of opening processes,
which just kind of happened, right? I didn't
particularly plan that. But you learn a lot in
a restaurant opening. You start to rethink certain
things. Because if you're in a restaurant, especially
if you start cooking and you're in a restaurant,
the kitchen is built, there's a system, there's
rituals, everyday processes, and there's somebody
who gives you the things that you have to prepare
and cook, right? Somebody tells you exactly what
to do. Hey, we need these and these. You know,
Bruno asked, we need this and this sauce, etc.
This is what you put here, this is what you put
there. If you are part of the process of planning
a kitchen, even just a kitchen, from scratch,
you know, they're like, hey, we have this space
here, we have 100 square meters, right? How do
you start? Where do you start? And that's really,
really interesting. You learn a lot of stuff.
Have you seen this movie, The Founder? I have
not. But do you know which one it is? I don't
think so. It's with Michael Keaton and it's about
the founder of McDonald's. Oh, I heard about
that. It's supposed to be really good. it's a
really good movie especially for for people that
are in the process of uh opening a new restaurant
there is this scene where they draw on a basketball
field with the real sizes like the layout of
the of the kitchen with with chuck yeah so they
were the whole they draw the whole layout and
they start like rehearsing like okay if i go
here and the just to see the the workflows and
the spaces and how it works i think that's a
pretty good exercise i know they did the same
with Dos Palillos in Barcelona. I remember seeing
back in the days a picture where they prototype
the kitchen with just carton boxes, like the
whole bar in real size so they could step in
and this again like in a basketball field or
something like a basketball court just to see
how much space they have, the altitudes of everything.
You know, like I think it's very important to
actually do that. Yeah. It's not enough. Well,
I mean, if it's going to be your restaurant.
If it's going to be your baby, you know, like
to do that because you're going to live there.
You're going to spend lots of hours there. 100%.
And when things are set in stone, like set in
stone usually, it's like very hard to change
something once all the surfaces are in there,
etc. And the plumbing has to be put in, you know,
and you're kind of like, hey, I'm going to put
a sink here. It's like, ah, you can't just change
that afterwards because you have special plumbing
that goes right there. That thing is kind of
like what they did in the bear also, where he's
like, you know, there's a little bit comical.
because he's like, oh, I have to be able to finish
a dish in like, what was it, like 10 seconds
or something. He's like, and he goes over there,
and it's like, okay, it's not like that. No,
no, no. But, I mean, the idea is there. I've
definitely done that. We've definitely done that,
for example, when we opened Lorea. We had the
space of the kitchen, and we marked out all the
stuff with tape on the floor. Yeah, also to see
the space because you make a drawing and then
you see the spaces that are left. If it's like
a comfortable workflow also, if an edge is sticking
out too much and stuff. And actually, when I
came back to Berlin to open this like farm restaurant,
we did exactly the same thing. We went into like
an empty meeting hall and we took the blueprint
and we measured everything out and we taped it
all off. And we put tables that kind of fit there.
We kind of try to sketch it off to see if it
would make sense or not. That's pretty cool.
I've worked in restaurant openings, but in some
cases I've come where the kitchen is already
built because I wasn't the head chef in that
case. And in many cases I've also experienced
being in a restaurant where I feel like, who
was the idiot who designed this kitchen? Yeah,
totally. That's pretty much the case in most
cases. Unfortunately, that's so weird. Yeah,
you know Who thought about this? You know, I
always have to think about the case of palillos
Berlin. Mm -hmm where the Walls were this metal
that had to be perfectly polished and you have
it had to be polished like twice a day And it
took like two hours from workers to do that every
day. So two hours polishing walls for nothing
for nothing like taking two hours away from your
workers just to to have like a metal wall which
nobody cares about you know like absolutely and
from a restauranteur's point of view that's wasted
money yeah and that's the thing that like a lot
of yeah psychological energy like so many things
that are wasted with that absolutely and i can
imagine this designer You know, these are the
kind of architects that then appear in magazines
talking about sustainability and eco -design
and this and that. Yeah, it's really easy to
talk about sustainability when it's about, you
know, I don't know, using the stalks of broccoli.
But when you talk about efficiency and, you know,
saving time and conserving energy of the people
that work there, that is part of sustainability
as well. Like, that is actually one of the major
parts of the permaculture concept. It's not just
about, oh, let's have plants that... We don't
have to rip out, we don't have to turn over the
soil. It's like, how do we design the space where
we need the least amount of effort to have the
maximum result? Kind of like judo, you know.
And it's super, super easy. And that's why I
feel like you notice when people are talking
about sustainability from a trendy point of view.
Because they're like, oh, yeah, look, I'm using
the cauliflower leaves. Amazing, you know. But
then it's kind of like, yeah, but your chef's
work 14 hours a day, you know. Yeah. So shut
the fuck up, you know. That's the case. I would
say in most of these places that have like this
green star from Michelin Guide. I would say most
of those places have this kind of. psychological
burden for the workers and mistreatment for the
workers yes all these kind of things and they
have like a sustainability award yeah it's so
phony it's so so funny it's so superficial also
and it's like cool what you say about the metal
because that's something that i learned when
i was in dubai is that you need to have things
in mind keep things in mind um in a with a functionality
and with a durability so you saw it there in
the They designed this restaurant beautifully,
right? They got this Italian design firm in and
they got the like beautiful colored marble for
the floor. They have this like amazing textured,
detailed, colorful textiles for the chairs and
like beautiful wood for the tables. Everything's
super nice. Fast forward two years later, right?
You could basically redo the restaurant because...
You have to design a chair with... It has to
be beautiful, of course, you know, especially
a restaurant that caliber. It has to be super,
super beautiful and has to be luxurious. But
there's 100 to 300 people walking through that
restaurant every day. And every single day, you're
open seven days a week, a hand is going to touch
this part of the chair. It's going to pull it
back over the floor. It's going to pull it back
to the table. People with their, like, watches
and their, like, diamond rings are going to hit
against the table. And if you have only designed
everything to look good but not be durable, then
you're... have to invest twice the amount of
money that you already spent millions on in the
beginning for the beautiful stuff. And yet again,
that's again like a very, very, very common case.
Like that kind of design and that kind of thing
that things are not meant to last just to look
good. Another example I can think of, of course
you have to clean and of course you have to clean
the floor every time. but then there's this case
where the whoever the kitchen architect comes
or the owner or someone who has nothing to do
with the kitchen operation and says ah let's
make white floors so it looks cleaner well that
doesn't mean that doesn't mean it looks cleaner
that means you will have to clean it every 30
seconds And not you who have this great idea.
The people that are going to work there. Because
of course you have to clean, but you don't have
to clean every 30 seconds. 100%. And it's kind
of like a domino effect. It's sort of like, well,
it's not you who has to clean it, but it's like
your workers. And what you don't see is this
ripple effect, almost like a butterfly effect,
right? Where they have to stop what they're doing.
They have to quickly do this. It disrupts the
flow, which means... The quality decreases, which
at the end of the day impacts the product that
you're putting out to the guests, right? If you're
really focused on having the best quality that
you can to build your brand, to, you know, position
yourself in the market as like something that
people want to go to, you want your product to
be as good as possible, obviously. But these
things, they affect that massively. If your oven
only works 50 % of the time or your plancher
turns off every 30 seconds by itself because
of like a short circuit or whatever, people are
going to wait longer. Your chefs are going to
be stressed out. It's not an organic workflow
and your product, ergo, is going to be worse.
And it's kind of like, how can you not think
of these things? Because in the end of the day,
if you're opening a restaurant, you're the owner
and you're the guy who makes the big decisions.
That's what you want. Another thing that I've
recently learned about restaurant design is that
the kitchen that I'm currently in, which I'm
about to leave again, on the surface, I don't
know, have you ever seen the kitchen at Chateauriel?
It's a very nicely designed kitchen. It's very
open. beautiful, like, green tiles on the walls
and very light. You know, everything's stainless
steel, sort of center island that goes into the
wall. Looks very nice. And everybody that comes
into the kitchen is like, oh, it's such a nice
kitchen because it's not, like, in a white -tiled
room with, like, just stainless steel, no windows
and stuff. And it's like, yeah, that's true.
It is nice. And I do 100 % believe that you have
to design spaces to be pleasant and beautiful
to be in for everybody to work better i don't
think that you can cook nice food if you're in
a cellar in the like i do think it makes a big
difference if you can see some sunlight but what
people don't see is the functionality of it so
whoever designed that kitchen i know who designed
the kitchen but that person did not necessarily
understand restaurants very well so what they
decided to do is they made the plan apart from
that the plan is super weird there's like two
ovens underneath the like you know, like old
-school French gas ovens underneath the Garde
Magée. But there's no oven near the grill or
the fish section, you know, stuff like that.
It's bonkers. Everything they put in, they then...
sort of sealed off cleanly with stainless steel
so that everything is like completely built into
the counters, right? That means that you have
a surface on the table with a hole where the
fryer is in, right? It looks very clean, very
smooth with the frying basket. So, okay, what
happens, right? Your heat sensor from the fryer
breaks. The guy tries to go in, looks at it,
and he's like, ah, because the sensor broke,
like the cable kind of burned through a little
bit. We would have to exchange the whole cable.
Not a big deal, but how the fuck do we get the
fryer out of here? It's completely welded into
the surface. We would have to cut the entire
block open and get this thing out. Same with
the dishwasher area. They've kind of like, they
put a dishwashing machine in, you know, like
a hood plate cleaner. And then on the outside...
You have the sink, and then they put a metal
plate over the sink, around the dishwasher, onto
the side, so it's all clean. It's good for cleaning,
right? But there's a problem with the dishwasher.
They have to go to the back cables. What are
they going to do? Are they going to flex open
this entire thing and pull it out, and then what?
And I was like, man, everything has to be like
a Lego block. Everything has to be replaceable.
If you have a restaurant that is operating five
days a week, six days a week, seven days a week,
you know two services two three services a day
maybe things are going to get used and things
are going to get broken that's just something
that you have to keep in mind and you have to
keep maintaining the engine for the car to drive
right if you can't take one block out without
damaging all the other stuff to replace it then
that's a big problem and that also keeping in
mind you always have to have a replacement you
can't just have one thermomix one package yet
you always have to have a replacement item so
that when there's a problem you can just take
it out replace it get the other one fixed right
if both break you're kind of but then you can
look for you know plan c but so you always have
a like a plan b an emergency solution because
the worst thing that can happen is that like
some like one of your equipment breaks And you're
fucked. And then what? You send it in. It takes
two weeks to repair. What do you do in the meantime?
You're going to close the restaurant. You're
going to take the things off your menu that you
need this machine for. No, that's nuts. And that
is something that for somebody who's like not
stood in the kitchen for like a long period of
time and had to deal with these sorts of things.
Call the plumber. Call the electrician. You know,
call the maintenance guy. This is something that
you constantly have to deal with. A huge mistake.
Yeah, also something I've seen many, many times
is these decisions about how to build a kitchen
are taken by, let's say, the owner, the architect
that works with the, you know, like these kitchen
architects that build kitchens. And they have
like this, you know, system where they get stuff
done and execute them. But they don't necessarily,
well, they're for sure not chefs. They're looking
for things to look good. you know and also to
sell their products you know like all their stuff
and i think that i can think of is building the
the air extraction that is something like you
know if you're like an independent restaurateur
that wants to open a restaurant and you say okay
i'll get a loan i'll open my own little restaurant
by myself most of the time this is something
people don't think about but both the air extractor
and the fat trap for that trap yes you know that
both are like in many cases more expensive than
the whole kitchen. And it's something nobody
thinks about because you don't think about these
kind of things. But it's one of the most important
things. My kitchen at the moment has an extraction
that does not work properly. And it's been an
ongoing discussion with the kitchen designer
and builder. There's a company that builds kitchens,
gastro kitchens. And the extraction has not worked
from day one that I started working there. As
in like you have a grill, you put one steak on
it, it starts smoking, right? The kitchen is
filling of smoke. You can imagine how it is if
you have a busy service or you do an event for
150 people. This is, again, such a ripple effect.
It affects everything. How pissed off is your
team after a week of working in a smoky kitchen?
Then it's kind of like, what do you do? The extraction
is not getting fixed. Are you going to change
the menu so you don't have smoky things? Are
you not going to use the grill? What the fuck
is that? That's not what you should be focused
on. You should be focused on what technique do
I use for the best result that I want to send
out into the dining room. not what technique
can i use so my chefs don't get pissed off yeah
so the reason these things happen like this uh
there's a very clear reason you have like let's
say three months to open you have to get all
these things all in three months And then you
need to open to start making money. So you don't
have so much time to plan or everything. It depends
on the project, of course. It depends, yeah.
Yeah, but that's like a realistic time. Sometimes
you have six months and sometimes you have one
year if it's like a big hotel chain or whatever.
But these are not like super long times to plan
and test and this kind of thing. Yeah, that's
another good point. Like without a fail, what
I've seen in openings is that like, okay, take
the time, talk to everybody, the owners, the
architects, the designers, the suppliers, et
cetera, et cetera. Take all of that into account,
calculate realistically what it's going to take
time -wise and then add three months on top of
that. Yeah, because it always takes. It always
takes longer and you always get fucked over.
You think it's like your supplier is going to
tell you, hey, the fryer is going to come then
and then for sure. Tops two weeks more. What
about menu design, concept design for the culinary
offer? Yeah, that's very particular, right? I
think you do have to have a certain concept and
menu in mind for you to design the kitchen well.
Because you need to know which section is going
to be the busiest, right? Is it going to be the
grill? Do you need a big grill? Is a small grill
enough? Are you just going to grill the main
course, maybe a couple of vegetables for the
starters? Do you need a big tempura fryer? Do
you want a big, large counter for cold dishes?
Where you can maybe have two people on a nice,
beautiful, big counter cutting raw fish and making
crudos and cool salads and whatnot. So what's
your focus? I think you do have to have that
very, very clear before you start. Because otherwise
you're going to encounter, of course, there's
a lot of things that you can change in the get
-go. But you should be as clear as possible.
Yeah, I mean, I think you should have a direction.
But I think, again, a point that is very underestimated
is how location determines what you should...
or shouldn't do 100 i mean of course if if you
make a a restaurant in the middle of the countryside
and you want it to be like a high -end thing
i guess that like in that context even in that
context you have to do something that that makes
sense with the location and and the kind of audience
you're talking to you know like if it's in a
city one neighborhood will be very different
from a different neighborhood and you have to
take into consideration the people that surrounds
the restaurant physically. You know, like you
can't do something like, for example, super luxurious
in a super non -luxurious location, right? Or
the other way around, you know? Yeah, unless
there's like a niche thing for it. Unless you
specifically want that vibe and you can back
it up with the marketing and the draw that you
say like, hey, I'm going to go to a really shitty
abandoned warehouse and I'm going to make it
like, you know this place 893 by Duke in Berlin?
It's like, you probably know Xander, right? It's
like this really, outside it's just graffitis.
cannot see it looks like an abandoned house inside
it's like a super upscale Japanese restaurant
with like green marble and stuff like that it's
very cool and that's the vibe right and there's
like a doorbell you know blah blah blah it's
just like a little neon sign above the door if
that's but you know that's from somebody who
has done restaurants for a really long time and
he can straight away fill that place and have
word of mouth you know So, yeah, you need to
be really, really realistic. It's cool to think
like, hey, I'm going to open this thing. I'm
going to go to the ghetto and open this high
-end omakase place because that's cool. It's
grungy. It's industrial. Yeah, but you also have
to think. It also depends on the concept because,
of course, if you're making like a 12 -seat sushi
bar, right, like where you're going to charge,
I don't know, 150, 200 euros per person. and
you're going to have little staff, just two,
three people working because that's what you
need for such an operation. That's a thing. So
in that case, you probably will have people going
to wherever you are in a specific city to have
that experience. But if you have like a more,
let's say a bistro, like a more mid -level concept,
you have to think about where am I placing this?
Is there a subway station here? Is there like
a big office building near? Yes. Is that audience
that works there my public? Will they come to
my restaurant for lunch or dinner? Will I make
100 people events or weddings or, you know, like
this kind of operations as well? Because all
of these things determine and change, again,
stuff like that you probably haven't thought
of, like how big... should your dishwasher station
be. 100%, yeah. You know, like, if you're going
to make events, it should be double as big, and
you should get, like, a machine double as expensive
as the one you're thinking of, because those
are the things that you think, ah, I can get,
like, a cheap dishwasher machine, and that will
do the work. Yeah, it's the same, no? Yeah. And
it's like running the whole day as well, you
know? And it's just like, it needs to... like
these dishwasher machines, they have power. They
need to blast. And it's kind of like, yeah, I
totally agree with you. You have to think about
all these things and you have to think of the
workflow also. What I've seen is a lot of people
also, what they really forget is kind of like,
you look at your blueprints and you're kind of
like, okay, I have this and this much space.
It's like, all right, cool. Hold your horses
and stop imagining your fancy horseback grill
and whatever. Take 20, 30 % of that space away,
straight away for dishwash area and back of house.
You need to think where, Are the, like, where
are people going to enter? Do people have an
exit? And it's kind of like if they need to have
like a, if they have like a no exit thing where
they need to go in, say, for example, go past
the kitchen and to the back of house area, you
know, the back office, walk down a hallway to
the dishwasher area, leave the dishes, walk that
entire way back through the restaurant again,
just to be back on the floor. That's not okay.
My front of house guys where I am right now,
they walk up to 50 ,000 steps every day. That's
insane because the restaurant is designed really,
really poorly. It's like very outside of a building
block. So if you're in the kitchen and you want
to get to the very end of the restaurant, you
have to walk to one corner of the building, to
the next corner, to the next corner in a U -shape.
Yeah, or you also see stairs. Oh, yeah, yeah.
That's heavy. When you have to walk stairs up
or down. whatever for sometimes yeah kitchen
in a basement where the service has to go serves
ups and down all the time that's nuts yeah you
know like yeah that's really really crazy yeah
and it's kind of like it's so important that
you get somebody in that hike knows what it is
like you know like what you said earlier like
why why is it always owners that like they have
this great idea it's kind of like did you ever
spend like weeks standing on a dishwasher and
like washing dishes in a busy service we've both
seen like good dishwashers and bad dishwashers
a good kp is worth you know a lot of money i
respect their work a lot because a good kp organizes
themselves amazingly you know dirty plates come
in all the time it's like stacking them organizing
them so that you can fill the crates properly
stacks them super efficiently it has like a flow
system it's a constant flow of organizing things
cleaning things and then sorting things out right
and if you don't understand that process you
should not be involved in planning of that area
so there are two more things we haven't talked
about one of them is utensils like buying utensils
because that's also like a huge mess like you
know like huge mess yeah if you you haven't done
that never uh it's very difficult to do it from
scratch you know like okay i will need trays
and whatever spatulas and pots and this and that
up to the very last coffee teaspoon and ashtrays
you know like it's a super long list of you need
for the moment of the opening for sure you will
forget some stuff that then you have to buy you
know i don't know like a like a specific size
of whisk that was not considered but that you
need for something after the opening you know
that kind of things will happen And it's very,
again, very easy to underestimate how expensive
trays can be. Oh, yeah. And how many you need.
Exactly. How many you need. Or, again, topperwares.
So important to have enough topperwares. These
are the kind of things that, again, owners, you
buy 300 topperwares and after two months you
say you need 200 more. And they're like, but
why? How is it possible? Yeah, exactly. But the
thing is... Tupperware is a thing that I believe
you will use as many as you have. Basically.
Yeah, because the more Tupperware you have, the
more prep room you have. And if you have 20 more,
you're sort of like, hey, let's make that pickle
that we use, but let's make it for the next two
weeks. And then you fill a couple up, label them
nicely, you have them there. Amazing. Mise en
place. Yeah. and suppliers is the other thing
yeah that's again it has a lot to do with with
the location you're going to open and in a broader
sense like the the city or the the place you
are yeah how to get the right suppliers right
prices how to negotiate everything uh how to
get everything delivered to your place how to
organize that that's again like a like a very
big issue that requires planning absolutely because
you need to plan your your your weak flow after
it also it's kind of like well what fish supply
are you using when are they supplying you know
when's the best time for them to supply um so
if you have a fish production day for example
my fish supplier i specifically only work with
one who does sustainable fish from sustainable
fishing practices and they only deliver on wednesdays
and fridays so my fish days are wednesdays and
fridays and the whole hot section fish butchery
is planned around wednesday and friday that we
know we're not going to do any sauces we're not
going to do any big jobs we're not going to do
any meat prep on wednesdays and fridays because
all the fish comes in and we need to spend hours
prepping that fish yeah also a tricky thing is
that suppliers will i mean you will talk to a
salesman person And they will guarantee you that
they have the best produce, that there is a Michelin
star chef somewhere that works with them, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then you get
crappy produce. And that happens again and again
and again. So you have to also actually do a
lot of tastings, go to the source, talk with
people, see the produce yourself, and do the
test kitchen tests to see if the dishes actually
work. yes absolutely organize uh not only a soft
opening but also i don't know the the term in
english and spanish is marcha blanca like white
march march plank i don't know that is a i don't
know starting the operation one week or 10 days
ahead with the whole team Just to start cooking,
start doing prep, doing test services, all these
kind of things before the opening. Absolutely,
because you have a certain amount of experience
and there's only so and so much that you can
plan in your head. But once you see it in action,
a lot of other things become clear. The crucial
mistake to just be like, all right, cool, I think
this is going to work, let's open. Because you
can really damage yourself in the beginning if
you're open to the public. There's another huge...
topic around this which is staff planning oh
yeah you have your kitchen you already had all
these great ideas that you're going to build
it this or that way and then you're thinking
yeah and here i will have the grill person and
you're thinking probably an operation with 15
chefs 15 waiters and then you see that you have
budget just for 10 of that yeah and that that
means you show your whole idea should be redesigned
and rethought like the size of the kitchen the
i mean the working hours i remember uh in restaurant
openings like having already the blueprint of
the kitchen and putting like you know like playing
risk like putting the the figures This would
be a chef here. This would be a chef here. I
would need this or this as minimum staff for
the operation to run. How many shifts? For example,
yesterday we were at Nauru and for me it's really
crazy. You saw how many people were in that kitchen.
It was actually nuts. Like I, you know, like
now like having also a different view on, you
know, staffing and organization and stuff. I
was like, what the fuck is going on? It's like
twice as many chefs as I have in my kitchen,
even if I'm doing like 80 covers a night. But
also what I told you, that they open seven days
a week, three services a day, and nobody works
more than eight hours. Yeah, that's really good.
You know, but I mean, that's really good, but
that's really difficult. It costs you more money.
No, no, no, but it's also difficult even to put
that on an Excel sheet, you know, to actually...
Yeah, that's true. ...organize that, you know,
and the shift changes and the day ofs and all,
you know, like... Yeah, scheduling is a lot of
work. Yeah, it's not something that is for granted.
It's something that requires organization and
management and how to... actually accomplish
that. Yeah, people underestimate it. Like I've
seen a lot of people being sort of like, you
know, like being decent at cooking and then like
kind of stepping up to a role and then suddenly
they should take on responsibilities that are
more in the line of like a high level sous chef
or a head chef, in my opinion, right? I had a
conversation the other day with, well, it's already
a few months ago, with somebody. who had this
question in his head, like, can I do, like, can
I step up? I made them a list with responsibilities
that I would want a sous chef to have, you know?
And it's a fucking list like this long, you know?
It's like, and it doesn't mean that you can take
yourself out of the kitchen. It doesn't mean,
all right, I'm going to go to the office, bye,
good luck. No, you have to fucking be there.
You have to cook. You have to motivate people.
You have to quality control. But at the same
time, you have to do scheduling. You have to
do vacation planning. You have to do performance
reviews. You have to do maintenance. You have
to do all this shit. You have to do food costing.
Babysitter, psychologist. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah,
exactly. And it's a lot of work. Another thing
that people really underestimate is tableware.
dishes I have seen so many places and also I
right now in a place where I look at the plates
that I've bought and I'm like you've wasted no
kidding about 4 ,000 euros because you've bought
in a bunch of shit that's hideous and that nobody
needs, that is not functional, that's just now
sitting there. We could have used those 4 ,000
euros for something else, to buy nice plates,
for example, because you can buy a nice table
where that doesn't rip you out an arm. But again,
it's kind of like, what do I want to plate? What
plates do I need for that? I like having a variety
of plates. I like that. I like the Japanese approach
of different plates, mix and match and stuff.
And you don't need to go super crazy with it,
but if you have 200 plates that are just sitting
in a cupboard that you're not using, then it's
kind of like, who put in this order? Somebody
that didn't know what was happening, obviously.
Yeah, and I mean, I think the wrap -up of this
whole conversation is that the chef should be
involved in the process from the very beginning.
And many decisions have to go through the chef,
you know, the one that is going to actually be
in the operation and execute most of the things.
100%, yeah, 100%. And, like, you know, Michael
always told me chefs make the best, like, restaurant
managers, like, the restaurant owners, because
they understand all the processes. They understand
what a dishwasher needs, because... A lot of
chefs that I know, like myself included, like
I've spent a lot of time in a dishwash area,
you know, and I've spent many services cleaning
dishes. And, you know, from the plates to the
flow, etc. And like what actually also the organizational
point of view, what things actually take to get
done. You can only really have a chef. Obviously,
if you have a really good restaurant manager
or really good, you know, restaurant owner who
comes from the business, there's a lot of things
that he'll understand. But there's certain things
that only a chef will really understand for sure.
That's it for this week's episode of Potluck
Food Talks. If you like what we're doing, make
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